Fornits
General Interest => Open Free for All => Topic started by: SUCK IT on July 30, 2010, 03:41:25 PM
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I think AA is a good organization that has helped countless people. I think one of the main reasons why it works so well is the fact that addicts helping other addicts is an effective way of dealing with the problem. This is not to say traditional drug addiction treatment centers aren't good as well, I believe they are also effective. But most people cannot afford long term inpatient drug treatment unless you have good health insurance, and so that leaves a lot of people without that option. There are two different experiences in these two different environments however and the debate which one is more effective is an interesting discussion to have.
Professional treatment in drug rehab centers are educated and well qualified to take care of others. They have a good understanding of addiction and help people tremendously. My main issue with these type of facilities is that they can rely to heavily on medication and psychiatry to help people solve their problems, I think there are more effective ways of dealing with problems than covering it up with a medication. Or trading illegal drug addiction for a pharmaceutical prescribed drug addiction, I don't see the benefit in that. Ideally an addict will be able to live their life without any type of chemical dependency, legal or illegal.
Which brings me back to AA. I believe addicts helping other addicts is a very effective strategy, because they have gone through it before and have a good understanding. AA especially is useful because it is so widespread and access is easy. There are meetings going on all the time, and meetings are just the starting point. People almost always will approach you during your first meeting and offer to help. As much as some people on fornits hate AA, I don't see them offering the kind of help that many people in an AA meeting would. They want to genuinely help other people, because they know what it's like to be living in the world of addiction themselves. That is their only motivation, not money or fame, just to help others who have the same problem they have. I find that inspiring and one of my favorite aspects of AA/NA.
Too often on fornits I see people claiming AA is not necessary. If people are addicted to drugs, they should just stop, or so goes the "common sense" advice on fornits. Well unfortunately for many people it is not that easy. From an outside perspective, dealing with somebody with addiction issues can be frustrating because it doesn't make a lot of sense. If drugs and alcohol are destroying your life, then why don't you just stop? Some assume because they have the ability to stop cold turkey, that others should be able to as well. Those who seek help, are weak. This is a common perception of addiction and AA I find when reading this forum. Welcome to the early 20th century, before drug treatment or AA ever existed. I don't think ignorance is a good enough excuse to take the treatment industry back into the dark ages, where people were told to solve the problem themselves, and suffer in shameful silence.
Think about it for a second. If you couldn't make it through a single day without using drugs or alcohol, and couldn't find a way to stop and you finally acknowledge you really need some help to regain your life. Where would you rather come for advice and help. Would you rather come post on fornits and ask for help? Or would you go into an AA/NA meeting and ask for help? Lets be honest, in which situation are you more likely to receive real and effective help?
Fornits offers a lot of negative views, as in what not to do. But offers little alternatives on what you should do. I have yet to see anyone offer up an idea that can seriously replace the amount of work and help that AA/NA accomplish, around the world. Hating on an organization that is so successful and helped so many people is one thing, but offering no alternative just scares people away from AA based on mistruths and tells them deal with it on your own. Not only is this bad advice, but it is dangerous advice. The fact is some people do need help sometimes, and AA is one of the few organizations that offer it up without asking for anything in return. That is very rare in this world, and they should be applauded not condemned.
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MARIJUANA IS NOT A DRUG YOU IDIOT! :suicide:
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Actually, Fornits has a very positive approach (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=4491) to marijuana treatment.
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MARIJUANA IS NOT A DRUG YOU IDIOT! :suicide:
OK, "THC" is not a drug. HHHHHhhhmmm.......and your human????
Tetra-hydro-cannabinol; has a mild to moderate analgesic effect.
Please explain your definition of a drug.
Oh never mind, I don't want to wait for some ridiculous definition
such as; God made this not man. Drugs are manufactured by man.
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I wonder if someone on that "I Just" thread said, you know what I am addicted to drugs and want to quit. Anybody here willing to help me? What do you think the response would be. Probably something like "just quit, you weakling". Or "read this conspiracy website about AA, it will help you". Sorry but these don't offer anybody any help. It's great people can use substances responsibly, they aren't the people who get addicted to drugs or alcohol. It's a good thing to be one of these people, but if cursed with the disease of addiction, it doesn't really help much when these blessed people with responsible usage looking down on those who can't help themselves, and tell them, why can't you be more like me? It's like a person with eating issues asking for help from someone who never had weight problems, they'd probably say something like "why don't you just stop eating"? It's the same reaction to both situations, it doesn't help the person asking for help. That's why I believe, that addicts helping addicts, like AA/NA is a success because they know what you are going through. They know you aren't a responsible user of substances, and actually might need some help quitting, and they are happy to do so. I don't see why that is a bad thing, again, compare it to the response you'd get here. I choose them.
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Marijuana G E T S . Y O U . H I G H . . .
I love that about it....whether it's a drug or not is a secondary issue.. :rasta:
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Marijuana G E T S . Y O U . H I G H . . .
I love that about it....whether it's a drug or not is a secondary issue.. :rasta:
Yo, Frodie get high, Dude. Then get high again, get your family high, your grandson get him high. Sit with your daughter when she tells you she is pregnant and hand her the, "fatty" and get her high. Go to work get your boss high, find the owner and get him high. Call your State Senator, get him high, call your congressmen and get him high.
Barak and Michelle ask them to get high, hand the "fatty" to his daughters and get them high.
Drive across town and get high, go to WalMart and get high. Ask your grandmother for money and get her high, then you get high.
Take your dog for a walk, no don't get him high but show him how, "you need to get high".
You are high, "Frodie", way "HIGH".
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Marijuana G E T S . Y O U . H I G H . . .
I love that about it....whether it's a drug or not is a secondary issue.. :rasta:
Yo, Frodie get high, Dude. Then get high again, get your family high, your grandson get him high. Sit with your daughter when she tells you she is pregnant and hand her the, "fatty" and get her high. Go to work get your boss high, find the owner and get him high. Call your State Senator, get him high, call your congressmen and get him high.
Barak and Michelle ask them to get high, hand the "fatty" to his daughters and get them high.
Drive across town and get high, go to WalMart and get high. Ask your grandmother for money and get her high, then you get high.
Take your dog for a walk, no don't get him high but show him how, "you need to get high".
You are high, "Frodie", way "HIGH".
:roflmao:
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I've never had an addiction and don't smoke anything at all... but... certain people come to mind that would benefit from a daily herbal elixir.
One person's toke is another person's prozac.
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When you have an illness you get help from a professional - not by some former patient.
Would you limp to a man who had broken his leg if you broke yours?
Would you consult a cancer survivor how to have a tumor removed?
Of course not.
Both alcohol addiction and drug addiction are official recognized illnesses and there are professionals who is trained to treat them. Please remove the amateurs from this business. We are talking lives which can be saved.
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When you have an illness you get help from a professional - not by some former patient.
Would you limp to a man who had broken his leg if you broke yours?
Would you consult a cancer survivor how to have a tumor removed?
Of course not.
Both alcohol addiction and drug addiction are official recognized illnesses and there are professionals who is trained to treat them. Please remove the amateurs from this business. We are talking lives which can be saved.
Oscar your analogy is correct, if we were talking about a treatment center but we are talking one addict/alcoholic helping (helping not counseling) another.
I have helped literally hundreds of addicts and alcoholics, I have never counseled one.
This is basically on the street social situations where we are buying a bottle for a alcoholic to keep him stable till we can get him to a hospital, same with a drug addict buying him a candy bar so he can relax enough to deal with the wait at the hospital.
Upon leaving the 30/60/90 day treatment center assisting them in housing, jobs, social services ect......helping them to attend AA/NA meeting. Beginning their sobriety with education.
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I've never had an addiction and don't smoke anything at all... but... certain people come to mind that would benefit from a daily herbal elixir.
One person's toke is another person's prozac.
:)
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What is really sickening is these addict losers thinking their gonna save everybody else from themselves. They want to convince every weak-minded deadbeat like themselves that they are "powerless" over drugs and alcohol so that they dont have to feel like a degenerate piece of filth for letting a substance control their lives. My question to any neutral person reading this is simple: Do you want your children being "treated" by someone who has already shown by their past behavior that they have absolutely no moral compass whatsoever. DannyBII, Whooter, Suck it and other such trash are always ready to "relapse" and start giving blowjobs for dope money in a heartbeat. I wouldn't allow my children to even associate with ex-crack head, needle junkie human garbage like that.
Come on you troll filth, there is your red meat, wanna bite?
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What is really sickening is these addict losers thinking their gonna save everybody else from themselves. They want to convince every weak-minded deadbeat like themselves that they are "powerless" over drugs and alcohol so that they dont have to feel like a degenerate piece of filth for letting a substance control their lives. My question to any neutral person reading this is simple: Do you want your children being "treated" by someone who has already shown by their past behavior that they have absolutely no moral compass whatsoever. DannyBII, Whooter, Suck it and other such trash are always ready to "relapse" and start giving blowjobs for dope money in a heartbeat. I wouldn't allow my children to even associate with ex-crack head, needle junkie human garbage like that.
Come on you troll filth, there is your red meat, wanna bite?
Why, we are shuttering to think, this is how you relate to your wife and children. WoW.
Another sick troll fishing for reactions, how pathetic is that.
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What is really sickening is these addict losers thinking their gonna save everybody else from themselves. They want to convince every weak-minded deadbeat like themselves that they are "powerless" over drugs and alcohol so that they dont have to feel like a degenerate piece of filth for letting a substance control their lives. My question to any neutral person reading this is simple: Do you want your children being "treated" by someone who has already shown by their past behavior that they have absolutely no moral compass whatsoever. DannyBII, Whooter, Suck it and other such trash are always ready to "relapse" and start giving blowjobs for dope money in a heartbeat. I wouldn't allow my children to even associate with ex-crack head, needle junkie human garbage like that.
Come on you troll filth, there is your red meat, wanna bite?
Brutally put, but accurate. The only thing I'd add to is that they're not "letting anything control" their lives. Think about that for a second. "Let control" is a contradiction in terms. If you can "let" something than it's not really in control. The whole idea that an inanimate substance can "control" you, take away any free will, and render you powerless is a fatalistic fantasy pushed by those who find it easier to justify their actions to live with themselves. Taking full responsibility for crappy choices and bad habits, is a lot harder than saying "the disease made me do it... it's not my fault... the girl i ran over while drunk... not my fault... the wife I beat... not my fault... the children I chose to neglect in favor of my base desires... not my fault... and if i 'relapse' and do it all again... it's not my fault... you gotta 'let go and let god' man... he didn't give me free will... i'm the exception... it's never ever my fault... i feel like i'm gonna drink and do something stupid again... may the higher power who didn't grant me free will reach down from the heavens and stop me!".
Like with political correctness, concepts often become popular because they are more pleasing to believe in or result in less offense, none of which has anything whatsoever to do with their objectively measured accuracy. Science gives way to anecdote and quackery because it tells people what they want to hear, not what is real. Sure getting rid of guilt for past actions can help people feel better about themselves... but at what cost? Absolving a person of all personal responsibility reduces them to believing they are little more than animals, and if they bite an innocent again, it's the "will of the higher power" rather than base desires unleashed by a doctrine devoid of humanity. To be human is to be able to make free choices and feel guilt for the bad ones. Guilt is our way of knowing when we've wronged others and need to make amends, not because of self interest, as some part of "treatment", but because it's the right thing to do. Guilt is our way of knowing when we need to start making better choices. Getting rid of guilt by denying the existence of free choice may be more palatable, but the inevitable consequence is more tears for everybody as mistakes are never learned from.
Suck it. You claim AA/NA are successes. Post statistics to prove it or shut the hell up. No statistics, no response.
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What is really sickening is these addict losers thinking their gonna save everybody else from themselves. They want to convince every weak-minded deadbeat like themselves that they are "powerless" over drugs and alcohol so that they dont have to feel like a degenerate piece of filth for letting a substance control their lives. My question to any neutral person reading this is simple: Do you want your children being "treated" by someone who has already shown by their past behavior that they have absolutely no moral compass whatsoever. DannyBII, Whooter, Suck it and other such trash are always ready to "relapse" and start giving blowjobs for dope money in a heartbeat. I wouldn't allow my children to even associate with ex-crack head, needle junkie human garbage like that.
Come on you troll filth, there is your red meat, wanna bite?
Brutally put, but accurate. The only thing I'd add to is that they're not "letting anything control" their lives. Think about that for a second. "Let control" is a contradiction in terms. If you can "let" something than it's not really in control. The whole idea that an inanimate substance can "control" you, take away any free will, and render you powerless is a fatalistic fantasy pushed by those who find it easier to justify their actions to live with themselves. Taking full responsibility for crappy choices and bad habits, is a lot harder than saying "the disease made me do it... it's not my fault... the girl i ran over while drunk... not my fault... the wife I beat... not my fault... the children I chose to neglect in favor of my base desires... not my fault... and if i 'relapse' and do it all again... it's not my fault... you gotta 'let go and let god' man... he didn't give me free will... i'm the exception... it's never ever my fault... i feel like i'm gonna drink and do something stupid again... may the higher power who didn't grant me free will reach down from the heavens and stop me!".
Psy, here you go again. I still do not know where you got or get your information on AA/NA. You really think were just mindless automatons, just living and breathing this absurd rendition (you have manufactored) of AA/NA's principles.
Well I never had anyone tell me what you are spouting off about concerning God and taking responsibility for ones own life.
Like with political correctness, concepts often become popular because they are more pleasing to believe in or result in less offense, none of which has anything whatsoever to do with their objectively measured accuracy. Science gives way to anecdote and quackery because it tells people what they want to hear, not what is real. Sure getting rid of guilt for past actions can help people feel better about themselves... but at what cost? Absolving a person of all personal responsibility reduces them to believing they are little more than animals, and if they bite an innocent again, it's the "will of the higher power" rather than base desires unleashed by a doctrine devoid of humanity.
Where in heck did you get this concept from Psy. God I wish I could have you sit down with 25-50 folks I know from AA/NA with no less then 20-25 years of sobriety, who are just baffled with this shit you come up with. You could then ask all the questions you would like and we could explain, that what you believe is happening is your perception. Which if you really want to get honest Psy, you don't have much experience with either organization in your lifetime.
We all know you are intelligent yet you seem very inept in your ability to do research in any depth. It seems you become satisfied way to soon, either out of laziness or just being annoyed at the subject material.
If it is the latter then just please refrain from your naive statements, that only cater to the mass here.
To be human is to be able to make free choices and feel guilt for the bad ones. Guilt is our way of knowing when we've wronged others and need to make amends, not because of self interest, as some part of "treatment", but because it's the right thing to do. Guilt is our way of knowing when we need to start making better choices. Getting rid of guilt by denying the existence of free choice may be more palatable, but the inevitable consequence is more tears for everybody as mistakes are never learned from.
Wonderful explanation of guilt and it's manifestations.
Suck it. You claim AA/NA are successes. Post statistics to prove it or shut the hell up. No statistics, no response.
AA/NA does not do statistics and you know this. Neither organization is concerned with statistics nor is it necessary to be caught up in that lunacy. It is a "self help" 12 step principle, to helping oneself. Pick it up or leave it on the counter, buy the AA Book or don't. Come to a meeting or stay a home. Decisions Pys, all made by the individual.
What is with telling someone to, "shut the hell up".
Relax......
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Suck it. You claim AA/NA are successes. Post statistics to prove it or shut the hell up. No statistics, no response.
I don't claim AA/NA is successful, this is a fact. Now whether you believe it works, or doesn't or whatever is another debate altogether. But as far as AA/NA meetings being available in almost every city at all hours of the day and night, all that takes is a google search and you can see just how successful they are. This is similar to saying the Catholic Church has been successful, in that it is very widespread and many people believe in it, and go regularly. You can claim it's all lies, but that doesn't mean they, as an organization are not successful. I've had good experience with AA/NA, and I post about it, that's where I'm coming from.
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Gosh Danny, you are exactly right. I need your advice on how to treat my wife and kids. Oh wait, you have destroyed every relationship you have ever touched so maybe your advice on interpersonal relationships would therefore be a crock of shit equivalent to your posts here.
Lets compare our lives shall we. Danny while you were spongeing off your family and being a leach I was serving our country in the US Army. While you were trading blowjobs for dope money, I was working 60 to 80 hours a week providing for my wife and kids. While you were malingering on the couch too high to get up, I was immersing myself in my Judo and Jiu-Jitsu classes to keep my mind and body sharp. While you didn't and still dont have the self control to enjoy a little toke or beer without bingeing yourself into a pathetic stupor, I could and still can enjoy a drink without it affecting my life in any detrimental way whatsoever. Makes ya sick dont it.
Let me warn you of this scumbag: You obviously use and enjoy fornits way more than i do. Keep up your shit and I will haunt your every step here.If I have to I will be right behind every post you make with my observations on your disgusting excuse for a life. The things I have said here so far are very nice compared to where I can go. A typical confrontation at Straight inc was far far beyond this. I will be glad to share all that with you if I must. Your choice.
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Gosh Danny, you are exactly right. I need your advice on how to treat my wife and kids. Oh wait, you have destroyed every relationship you have ever touched so maybe your advice on interpersonal relationships would therefore be a crock of shit equivalent to your posts here.
Lets compare our lives shall we. Danny while you were spongeing off your family and being a leach I was serving our country in the US Army. While you were trading blowjobs for dope money, I was working 60 to 80 hours a week providing for my wife and kids. While you were malingering on the couch too high to get up, I was immersing myself in my Judo and Jiu-Jitsu classes to keep my mind and body sharp. While you didn't and still dont have the self control to enjoy a little toke or beer without bingeing yourself into a pathetic stupor, I could and still can enjoy a drink without it affecting my life in any detrimental way whatsoever. Makes ya sick dont it.
Let me warn you of this scumbag: You obviously use and enjoy fornits way more than i do. Keep up your shit and I will haunt your every step here.If I have to I will be right behind every post you make with my observations on your disgusting excuse for a life. The things I have said here so far are very nice compared to where I can go. A typical confrontation at Straight inc was far far beyond this. I will be glad to share all that with you if I must. Your choice.
Ya know I enjoy a little fun from time to time. This is not what I consider fun this is more of a nuisance. Why does every angry and belligerent male poster have to come on this site and fallaciously proclaim they are a Jiu-Jitsu/Judo marshal arts expert with a degree from college, have two kids and a lovely wife.
Am I the only one that smells the bullshit here.
Shaggy come on man, I am not your problem.
Hey you want to impress me send me a video of you using your head as a battering ram, smashing through walls. Let me watch you climb Mt. Everest, scale a building, let me see you in action at a MMF, contest.
Better yet big guy, show me the video of your daughters fist recital, your son playing t-ball, their first birthdays ect......
What is the matter with you acting like this, I am not impressed at all.
There is nothing else we can be talking about other then how much bravado you have.
Dude I am tapped out, I will not be sucked in any more to stupid verbal fights.
Just so you know my weird new friend, I am USMC Vet., have a BA, own my own mid-size business and have a beautiful sweetheart. Kids are grown 32 and 34 yrs of age.
Now I enjoy life and have for the last 23 years since I laid down the booze and dope, your opinion on this is of no consequence. I am very happy for you that you can enjoy the benefits of weed and a drink. I would have thought, since you
are such a intelligent and compassionate man (family man that you are) that you would embrace my decision to leave substances alone that I can not control.
I obviously can see why you are incapable of having this empathy, your writings here show that you are a very callous man that can not control his rage. Dude forgive yourself and you will see others differently.
Do not and I repeat, "DO NOT" ever say you represent the folks who survived Straight Inc. You are not even close.
take care......
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No danny you ceratinly are not my problem but you are a problem for Fornits. You and the drug addicted scum you represent are engaged, by your own admittance, in an organized campaign to harrass any and all who come here seeking answers about their abusive treatment at the facilities you represent. As far as the credibility issue you raised, I have friends who come to this site regularly who know me personally and know that everything i have said is 100 percent right on. Whether or not some low life drugged out "powerless" dirtbag believes a word i say, is utterly irrelevant. I am not even here to have a serious conversation anymore because you have made that impossible now. I will now devote myself to doing back to you here what you have done to others previously. Yeah I need some fun too. BTW, when you were blowing truckers for meth money did you let them finish in your mouth or did you prefer facials? Just wonderin drug addict. I mean you can tell us right? Your not responsible for that right? Your powerless over drugs. You have a disease. Right?
Oops almost forgot, you ordered me to never and I mean never say that I speak for Straight survivors. Well I never claimed to speak for anyone but myself but since I dont take orders from crackhead needle junkies I am now officially declaring myself spokesperson for 100 percent of Straight survivors. Yep im the new fuckin president of our club.
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No danny you ceratinly are not my problem but you are a problem for Fornits. You and the drug addicted scum you represent are engaged, by your own admittance, in an organized campaign to harrass any and all who come here seeking answers about their abusive treatment at the facilities you represent. As far as the credibility issue you raised, I have friends who come to this site regularly who know me personally and know that everything i have said is 100 percent right on. Whether or not some low life drugged out "powerless" dirtbag believes a word i say, is utterly irrelevant. I am not even here to have a serious conversation anymore because you have made that impossible now. I will now devote myself to doing back to you here what you have done to others previously. Yeah I need some fun too. BTW, when you were blowing truckers for meth money did you let them finish in your mouth or did you prefer facials? Just wonderin drug addict. I mean you can tell us right? Your not responsible for that right? Your powerless over drugs. You have a disease. Right?
Oops almost forgot, you ordered me to never and I mean never say that I speak for Straight survivors. Well I never claimed to speak for anyone but myself but since I dont take orders from crackhead needle junkies I am now officially declaring myself spokesperson for 100 percent of Straight survivors. Yep im the new fuckin president of our club.
Like I said Shaggy, you are a nuisance. I deal with folks like you all the time. No big deal. Your probably a poster here already, impersonating yourself.
So go on with your filthy posts, make sure you let your wife and kids read them. Don't live a double life.
See I think your a liar, there is no way you can be in a loving relationship with others and speak like this. Unless there is something else happening here, Hhhhhmmmmm........will see.
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Yeah sure danny Im just a liar and so is verybody else who gets sick of your shit here i suppose. Only one problem with that: Lying seems to be the forte of alcoholics and drug addicts like yourself. Self admitted proud child abuser: DannyBII. What a great guy.
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Kids are grown 32 and 34 yrs of age.
Someone who is 34 years of age right now would have been born in 1976, perhaps even in late 1975.
According to other of your posts, Danny, you would have been about 16 years old and "just a kid," doing your time at Elan, at the time this child of yours was born.
Your second child would have - in all probability - also been born during your time at Elan, albeit when you were staff.
:eek:
Something doesn't quite add up.
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Something doesn't quite add up.
You do have a talent for spotting details. Bravo.
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psy.. Correct sir, well done! ursus, well done as well! Metal-on-metal right! J.O.M. Still the cracker, still the redneck.
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No offense, but Hellen Keller could see the discrepancies in Danny's story. Thanks for pointing it out though.
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hey1 dysfunction junction! that helen keller reference was just insensitive and mean.( but it was funny and accurate)
Lord, let me look for the obvious! J.O.M.
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Kids are grown 32 and 34 yrs of age.
Someone who is 34 years of age right now would have been born in 1976, perhaps even in late 1975.
According to other of your posts, Danny, you would have been about 16 years old and "just a kid," doing your time at Elan, at the time this child of yours was born.
Your second child would have - in all probability - also been born during your time at Elan, albeit when you were staff.
:eek:
Something doesn't quite add up.
Well you are right and I jumped a year on both, 8/77 and 4/79.
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Yeah sure danny Im just a liar and so is verybody else who gets sick of your shit here i suppose. Only one problem with that: Lying seems to be the forte of alcoholics and drug addicts like yourself. Self admitted proud child abuser: DannyBII. What a great guy.
I really don't know if your a liar. I do know from your writing that your upset about something and you want to tell me about it. Well, it would help a great deal if you would watch your mouth and speak as you would speak to your wife. Then maybe I could listen. Otherwise I am not hearing what you are trying to say.
Shaggy, I know you can do it, you made it through the Army.
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Something doesn't quite add up.
You do have a talent for spotting details. Bravo.
And you have a talent of being a big baby when things don't go your way. I blew holes all through your AA dialog. Keep tossing peanuts at the gallery.
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Something doesn't quite add up.
You do have a talent for spotting details. Bravo.
And you have a talent of being a big baby when things don't go your way. I blew holes all through your AA dialog. Keep tossing peanuts at the gallery.
I didn't bother responding to your rant because it was so weak on it's face. The entire first post you spent quibbling over how AA calls it an "illness" rather than a "disease". The rest that followed were equally ridiculous.
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Something doesn't quite add up.
You do have a talent for spotting details. Bravo.
And you have a talent of being a big baby when things don't go your way. I blew holes all through your AA dialog. Keep tossing peanuts at the gallery.
I didn't bother responding to your rant because it was so weak on it's face. The entire first post you spent quibbling over how AA calls it an "illness" rather than a "disease". The rest that followed were equally ridiculous.
Com'on Psy, you can do better then that, big difference between illness and disease. One can be mentally ill and get better, I could become ill with fever and get better. Now a disease, you don't get better. You have it for your life.
As I have always said, we of AA do not believe this (the AA folks I know), it is lazy AA members and folks like yourself that support this message. The first because they don't care to be responsible and the latter to have propaganda.
One last thing Psy, I think you don't debate this with me because unlike all your other rivals they could not really speak of the inner working of AA, as I.
I agree with many of your grievances concerning AA which is why I have stepped back over the last 5 years. Though I feel compelled to come forward when I hear erroneous information written here.
At least try to act like your not regurgitating information others have written about and that you are at least current on your propaganda.
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Kids are grown 32 and 34 yrs of age.
Someone who is 34 years of age right now would have been born in 1976, perhaps even in late 1975.
According to other of your posts, Danny, you would have been about 16 years old and "just a kid," doing your time at Elan, at the time this child of yours was born.
Your second child would have - in all probability - also been born during your time at Elan, albeit when you were staff.
:eek:
Something doesn't quite add up.
Well you are right and I jumped a year on both, 8/77 and 4/79.
Hmm. That would mean that the mother of your children probably got pregnant in November or December of 1976, presuming a full-term pregnancy.
According to this rendition (http://http://www.elanalum.com/Forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4035&p=6540&sid=9c9157d5d48852de58220af09c408500#p6540) of your story posted on elanalum.com a month ago, you were still a student at Elan at the time:
Thank you very much, My name is Daniel L. Bennison, I was in Elan from 6/75-1/77, Staff 1/77-2/78, Ass.Director 2/78-11/78. Worked with Marty, Jeff, Peter, Marc R., Rick R., Ken Z., Janet R. ect..... So there is enough folks to validate my employment and residency.
Fornits is much different then this site and I have always respected this site for it's authenticity and its commitment to Elan people.
If more Elan folks would just come here and share there thoughts, opinions no matter what they are and stay away from bashing one another, I believe they would find healing here through others words.
danny
However, according to this rendition (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1594&p=367462#p367462) of your story posted here on fornits a month and a half ago, you were already staff:
Elan 4 was a lock down facility, with a electric lock switch controlled in the staff office. The mens and womens dorms were upstairs. I don't remember any cells being upstairs on either floor.
I worked there for 14 months from 10/76 till 2/78 with Peter McCann Director, Rick Rosenhaus Assistant Director, Larry Smaller, Steve Smith and myself as staff...
Either way, regardless of whether you were still a student or were already a staff member, you were still at Elan. Was the mother of your children another Elan student?
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Oh big surprise. This thread has turned into a group hate fest directed towards someone with unwelcome ideas and thoughts. Better get to work discrediting this poster with inconvenient ideas. Let the conspiracy theories roll!
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SUCK IT when did you turn your PM function off and why did you do it?
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OK, I tried to suppress the SUCK IT personality, but it came out anyway. You guys were trying to expose me and my self-defense mechanisms reacted automatically. You could even say it happens "powerlessly". Yes, I am definently powerless over my multiple personalities just as I am with drugs and alcohol. Sorry in advance if SUCK IT emerges from my psyche again and offends anyone.
Peace and Powerlessness
Danny
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OK, back on topic,
The fact is AA is a success, and what makes it a success is the millions of people who participate in it. It's not a top down creation, it is a grass roots community based organization. It exists because people use it, participate in it, and spread the ideas and start their own groups. If it didn't do something, none of these things would happen. So obviously it's doing something that benefits the people who go to this voluntary organization. AA is not books, or steps or anything other than regular people participating in a group that helps them live their lives the way they want to. I'm sure AA can handle the handful of complaints directed at it from this website. You're talking about millions of people all over the world, versus a few anti treatment extremist in the dark corner of the internet seldom viewed. I take comfort in the fact AA is so successful, I believe in it and know it helps people and saves lives. The fact this bothers people says more about them than it does about AA, but haters gonna hate.
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OK, back on topic,
The fact is AA is a success, and what makes it a success is the millions of people who participate in it. It's not a top down creation, it is a grass roots community based organization. It exists because people use it, participate in it, and spread the ideas and start their own groups. If it didn't do something, none of these things would happen. So obviously it's doing something that benefits the people who go to this voluntary organization. AA is not books, or steps or anything other than regular people participating in a group that helps them live their lives the way they want to. I'm sure AA can handle the handful of complaints directed at it from this website. You're talking about millions of people all over the world, versus a few anti treatment extremist in the dark corner of the internet seldom viewed. I take comfort in the fact AA is so successful, I believe in it and know it helps people and saves lives. The fact this bothers people says more about them than it does about AA, but haters gonna hate.
SUCK IT when did you turn your PM function off and why did you do it? Was it after 25 May 2010, 21:23 ? :roflmao: :roflmao:
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Kids are grown 32 and 34 yrs of age.
Someone who is 34 years of age right now would have been born in 1976, perhaps even in late 1975.
According to other of your posts, Danny, you would have been about 16 years old and "just a kid," doing your time at Elan, at the time this child of yours was born.
Your second child would have - in all probability - also been born during your time at Elan, albeit when you were staff.
:eek:
Something doesn't quite add up.
Well you are right and I jumped a year on both, 8/77 and 4/79.
Hmm. That would mean that the mother of your children probably got pregnant in November or December of 1976, presuming a full-term pregnancy.
According to this rendition (http://http://www.elanalum.com/Forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4035&p=6540&sid=9c9157d5d48852de58220af09c408500#p6540) of your story posted on elanalum.com a month ago, you were still a student at Elan at the time:
Thank you very much, My name is Daniel L. Bennison, I was in Elan from 6/75-1/77, Staff 1/77-2/78, Ass.Director 2/78-11/78. Worked with Marty, Jeff, Peter, Marc R., Rick R., Ken Z., Janet R. ect..... So there is enough folks to validate my employment and residency.
Fornits is much different then this site and I have always respected this site for it's authenticity and its commitment to Elan people.
If more Elan folks would just come here and share there thoughts, opinions no matter what they are and stay away from bashing one another, I believe they would find healing here through others words.
danny
However, according to this rendition (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1594&p=367462#p367462) of your story posted here on fornits a month and a half ago, you were already staff:
Elan 4 was a lock down facility, with a electric lock switch controlled in the staff office. The mens and womens dorms were upstairs. I don't remember any cells being upstairs on either floor.
I worked there for 14 months from 10/76 till 2/78 with Peter McCann Director, Rick Rosenhaus Assistant Director, Larry Smaller, Steve Smith and myself as staff...
Either way, regardless of whether you were still a student or were already a staff member, you were still at Elan. Was the mother of your children another Elan student?
Well when your in re-entry you can work as staff, as Matt did. So two months as re-entry and 12 months as employee. As far as my memory serves. Then again I could be wrong because I could care less about accuracy of my accounts 30 years ago at Elan.
I know for a fact there are many more discrepancies out there concerning my bio, some were planted on purpose and some were incidental. Happy hunting.
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Yes, I have left a path of human carnage behind me for virtually my entire life. What can I say but, well, you guessed it: I was powerless to stop myself. From Elan to AA its been a heck of a ride. Alot of laughs for me but not for my family and those unfortunate enough to believe I was their friend. Hey, people get hurt and its their own fault cause they just dont understand my disease. The disease of addiction has granted me full immunity from any responsibility. It really rocks! I have been saddened, I must admit, that I haven't had more converts to the cult of Danny but I am sure my message is getting through.
Peace and Powerlessness
Danny
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OK, I tried to suppress the SUCK IT personality, but it came out anyway. You guys were trying to expose me and my self-defense mechanisms reacted automatically. You could even say it happens "powerlessly". Yes, I am definently powerless over my multiple personalities just as I am with drugs and alcohol. Sorry in advance if SUCK IT emerges from my psyche again and offends anyone.
Peace and Powerlessness
Danny
Interesting. No wonder SUCK IT/Danny has been avoiding questions.
And you're not powerless over being an asshole. Nor are you over alcohol....you have a choice to drink or not. It doesn't pour itself down your throat.
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Hi Anne Bonney
I don't avoid questions, but I do avoid extremist personalities not open to discussion. I don't think you are one of them really. I'm talking about PIle, elansgraduate, Dysfunction, people like that. I'm open to discuss my experiences with AA/NA with whoever wants to have an adult conversation.
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Hi Anne Bonney
I don't avoid questions, but I do avoid extremist personalities not open to discussion. I don't think you are one of them really. I'm talking about PIle, elansgraduate, Dysfunction, people like that. I'm open to discuss my experiences with AA/NA with whoever wants to have an adult conversation.
SUCK IT always avoids the tough questions. After all, that's his MO.
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OK, I tried to suppress the SUCK IT personality, but it came out anyway. You guys were trying to expose me and my self-defense mechanisms reacted automatically. You could even say it happens "powerlessly". Yes, I am definently powerless over my multiple personalities just as I am with drugs and alcohol. Sorry in advance if SUCK IT emerges from my psyche again and offends anyone.
Peace and Powerlessness
Danny
Interesting. No wonder SUCK IT/Danny has been avoiding questions.
And you're not powerless over being an asshole. Nor are you over alcohol....you have a choice to drink or not. It doesn't pour itself down your throat.
Anne, please check the poster who is impersonating my username, different avatars. One is of a wolf, (me) and the other is Felicio's, "I wish I could get" fictional boyfriend.
Then we have Shaggy dog, which is probably Felicio again.
Anne why are you arguing a point that we already agree on. Your point is, you have no idea what the heck your talking about and we agree. Stop calling us names, you don't like it when others call you names, do you.
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Hi Anne Bonney
I don't avoid questions, but I do avoid extremist personalities not open to discussion. I don't think you are one of them really. I'm talking about PIle, elansgraduate, Dysfunction, people like that. I'm open to discuss my experiences with AA/NA with whoever wants to have an adult conversation.
SUCK IT always avoids the tough questions. After all, that's his MO.
No he/we avoid you.
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OK, I tried to suppress the SUCK IT personality, but it came out anyway. You guys were trying to expose me and my self-defense mechanisms reacted automatically. You could even say it happens "powerlessly". Yes, I am definently powerless over my multiple personalities just as I am with drugs and alcohol. Sorry in advance if SUCK IT emerges from my psyche again and offends anyone.
Peace and Powerlessness
Danny
Interesting. No wonder SUCK IT/Danny has been avoiding questions.
And you're not powerless over being an asshole. Nor are you over alcohol....you have a choice to drink or not. It doesn't pour itself down your throat.
Anne, please check the poster who is impersonating my username, different avatars. One is of a wolf, (me) and the other is Felicio's, "I wish I could get" fictional boyfriend.
Then we have Shaggy dog, which is probably Felicio again.
Anne why are you arguing a point that we already agree on. Your point is, you have no idea what the heck your talking about and we agree. Stop calling us names, you don't like it when others call you names, do you.
Given that the entity which goes by the username of "DannyB II" has, in fact, admitted to being composed of multiple personages (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=370929#p370929), it should really come as no surprise that some of them would eventually feel the desire to splinter off and become known as individuals. :D
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I don't claim AA/NA is successful, this is a fact.
Ok......lesson time. Stating that "AA/NA are successful, this is a fact" is making a claim that AA/NA are successful. Now, please provide a citation for this "fact" you're stating.
Now whether you believe it works, or doesn't or whatever is another debate altogether. But as far as AA/NA meetings being available in almost every city at all hours of the day and night, all that takes is a google search and you can see just how successful they are.
So, your "proof" is that there are a lot of meetings. Am I reading that correctly? That's your "proof"?
This is similar to saying the Catholic Church has been successful, in that it is very widespread and many people believe in it, and go regularly.
Sure....it's very successful at making money and raping kids. Doesn't make it good for anyone.
You can claim it's all lies, but that doesn't mean they, as an organization are not successful. I've had good experience with AA/NA, and I post about it, that's where I'm coming from.
Ok....we're asking for proof that it works. Not anecdotal stories. You guys don't believe us when we tell our anecdotal stories about what happened to us, so why should we take your word on the same? Especially when the majority of us have extensive personal experience with AA and its similarities to programs.
What we're looking for, in both AA and the TTI, is actual clinical, longitudinal, peer reviewed studies that show its effectiveness. They've even made it very convenient for you. Go take a look at Valliant's study of AA. He, an AA insider and true believer in it, found that AT BEST there was a 5% "success" rate and even worse, actually increased the deaths amongst alcoholics. If you've got another clinical, longitudinal study that I'm not aware of, please enlighten me.
This was an answer to a question about "bashing" AA. It's a good one.
http://www.dangerthinice.org/bash%20alc ... nymous.htm (http://www.dangerthinice.org/bash%20alcoholics%20anonymous.htm)
Here’s my answer:
What you consider bashing is probably just people like me telling the truth about AA.
Only 5% of newcomers stay in AA for one year, the other 95% leave; that from AA’s own Triennial Survey. Out of that 95%, at least some found the program harmful, I know I certain did.
I bounced in and out of the rooms for almost twenty years, never putting together more than a few months of sobriety. AA programmed me to fail. I’m an atheist and found it impossible to do the steps. People told me that even an atheist could manage it, but that’s plain bs. I went through all sorts of mental gymnastics in those years and it just cannot be done. AA members don’t want you to anyway, they want you to convert. Just read “We Agnostics” or the “12 & 12”...religious tripe. They can claim “spiritual, not religious” as much as they want, ever higher court that has heard the arguments have ultimately decided that AA is at least “religious in nature”.
During my brief stints in the rooms, I picked up all sorts of damaging beliefs, powerlessness, that I had a disease, and that I couldn’t make it without AA. Over 5 years ago, I took responsibility for my addiction and my recovery, and I’m still sober today.
And I’m not the only one. There are at least a dozen AA “bashing” groups on Yahoo alone, helping people heal from the abuses they found in the rooms.
I’ve been working with people who have substance abuse and mental health issues, almost every one of them has their own “twelve step horror stories”. (BTW, did you know there’s a book with that title? It can be read online at:
http://www.morerevealed.com/library.jsp (http://www.morerevealed.com/library.jsp) )
Many of these people fell victim to the anti-medication, anti-therapy faction of AA who, despite literature to the contrary, tell people they must give up all medication or else they aren’t truly sober.
Have you ever looked at the studies done? How about the Brandsma study that showed that people who were exposed to AA were 4-5 times as likely to engage in binge drinking than those who attempted quitting on their own. Or the various studies that show AA’s 5% success rate is the same as the 5% success rate achieved by people quitting on the own? Or the Harvard study that showed that most people more people get sober with no treatment that through AA?
But my all time favorite study was run by George Valliant, Harvard researcher and member of the AA Board of Trustees, in attempting to prove that AA worked, he came up with this conclusion:
”Not only had we failed to alter the natural history of alcoholism, but our death rate of three percent a year was appalling.”
But he didn’t let a little thing like facts stand in his way, he still promotes AA.
For those who want to read more about these studies and AA’s efficiency, go to:
http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-effectiveness.html (http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-effectiveness.html)
Some people do credit AA for their sobriety, mainly because that’s were they were when they made to decision to stop, but that’s like something always being in the last place you look....you stop looking.
A comparison was done of 48 different methods of recovery, AA placed 38th in effectiveness:
http://www.behaviortherapy.com/whatworks.htm (http://www.behaviortherapy.com/whatworks.htm)
Why should AA be immune to valid criticism? Where are the studies, the facts and figures that prove AA works? All you have are the testimonials of people who claim AA worked for them, what about the testimonials of those who say it didn’t and those who say it harmed them?
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I never said AA should be immune from criticism. I don't have that kind of existential control over all aspects of the universe. I said AA helped me and many other people. Psy says AA is a failure, well reality would care to disagree. There are meetings in almost every city, every day, at all times. You are talking about millions of people who make up this grass roots organization and so it exists. This is by definition a successful organization. Since it's anonymous, I doubt many people want to sign up to be studied. The real question you might want to ask yourself is, why does it bother me so much AA is a success? Why does it bother me so much that AA helps people?
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I don't claim AA/NA is successful, this is a fact.
Ok......lesson time. Stating that "AA/NA are successful, this is a fact" is making a claim that AA/NA are successful. Now, please provide a citation for this "fact" you're stating.
No here is the real lesson, Anne but first let me state that I am sick and tired of your stubbornness (just joking), here on this topic. Here is your citation, me. Two decades of experience, need I say more. This can not be refuted.
Now whether you believe it works, or doesn't or whatever is another debate altogether. But as far as AA/NA meetings being available in almost every city at all hours of the day and night, all that takes is a google search and you can see just how successful they are.
So, your "proof" is that there are a lot of meetings. Am I reading that correctly? That's your "proof"?
No that is not all, here is the proof. AA is in practically every country on the planet, they have these meeting every day, multiple times a day. There are 2 million members and that number is known to be conservative.
That is all the proof you need.
This is similar to saying the Catholic Church has been successful, in that it is very widespread and many people believe in it, and go regularly.
Sure....it's very successful at making money and raping kids. Doesn't make it good for anyone.
but it is not successful in it's primary objective then, helping folks find God. AA is successful in helping folks find a way to sober up.
You can claim it's all lies, but that doesn't mean they, as an organization are not successful. I've had good experience with AA/NA, and I post about it, that's where I'm coming from.
Ok....we're asking for proof that it works. Not anecdotal stories. You guys don't believe us when we tell our anecdotal stories about what happened to us, so why should we take your word on the same? Especially when the majority of us have extensive personal experience with AA and its similarities to programs.
Anne, what we don't believe is your anecdotal stories, your right, are stories are not anecdotal, we are not telling stories based on or consisting of reports or observations of usually unscientific observers and/or evidence.
Suck It and I are involved with AA, we are living it. Have been blessed by the rewards of AA 12 steps. That is the difference between you and the both of us.
Also Anne, you do not have extensive experience with AA first hand, you were in a 12 step program that greatly distorted the 12 steps to a point they were unrecognizable to any AA in the real world. Anne, Suck It and I, freely came to AA and picked up the tools of the 12 steps.
What we're looking for, in both AA and the TTI, is actual clinical, longitudinal, peer reviewed studies that show its effectiveness. They've even made it very convenient for you. Go take a look at Valliant's study of AA. He, an AA insider and true believer in it, found that AT BEST there was a 5% "success" rate and even worse, actually increased the deaths amongst alcoholics. If you've got another clinical, longitudinal study that I'm not aware of, please enlighten me.
"What were looking for is actual clinical, longitudinal, peer reviewed studies that show its effectiveness".
Anne this statement right here, speaks volumes about your lack of experience with the Real Free World Of AA. As I said above you were involved with a narcissist ugly form of the 12 steps. I can't even call it AA because it was not. You have been so traumatized by this experience that you believe AA in the real world is also like what you were taught at Straight. Well this is just not true.
I know you have stated in the past that you have attended AA meeting outside of Straight. I believe you Anne, I also know that you were abused by Straight prior to going to meetings outside. You were already contaminated, Anne. Prejudice had set in.
As far as studies Anne, you just don't get it and you probably never will. That's fine too because your not a alcoholic or drug addict. So what difference does it really make.
Anne, you are the only one aside from Psy that are really bothered by AA and its success. One drunk helping another drunk and One Day at A Time. We do not concern ourselves with surveys and reports. Sorry were busy trying to save lives.
What are you doing, Anne.
This was an answer to a question about "bashing" AA. It's a good one.
http://www.dangerthinice.org/bash%20alc ... nymous.htm (http://www.dangerthinice.org/bash%20alcoholics%20anonymous.htm)
Here’s my answer:
What you consider bashing is probably just people like me telling the truth about AA.
Only 5% of newcomers stay in AA for one year, the other 95% leave; that from AA’s own Triennial Survey. Out of that 95%, at least some found the program harmful, I know I certain did.
I bounced in and out of the rooms for almost twenty years, never putting together more than a few months of sobriety. AA programmed me to fail. I’m an atheist and found it impossible to do the steps. People told me that even an atheist could manage it, but that’s plain bs. I went through all sorts of mental gymnastics in those years and it just cannot be done. AA members don’t want you to anyway, they want you to convert. Just read “We Agnostics” or the “12 & 12”...religious tripe. They can claim “spiritual, not religious” as much as they want, ever higher court that has heard the arguments have ultimately decided that AA is at least “religious in nature”.
During my brief stints in the rooms, I picked up all sorts of damaging beliefs, powerlessness, that I had a disease, and that I couldn’t make it without AA. Over 5 years ago, I took responsibility for my addiction and my recovery, and I’m still sober today.
And I’m not the only one. There are at least a dozen AA “bashing” groups on Yahoo alone, helping people heal from the abuses they found in the rooms.
I’ve been working with people who have substance abuse and mental health issues, almost every one of them has their own “twelve step horror stories”. (BTW, did you know there’s a book with that title? It can be read online at:
http://www.morerevealed.com/library.jsp (http://www.morerevealed.com/library.jsp) )
Many of these people fell victim to the anti-medication, anti-therapy faction of AA who, despite literature to the contrary, tell people they must give up all medication or else they aren’t truly sober.
Have you ever looked at the studies done? How about the Brandsma study that showed that people who were exposed to AA were 4-5 times as likely to engage in binge drinking than those who attempted quitting on their own. Or the various studies that show AA’s 5% success rate is the same as the 5% success rate achieved by people quitting on the own? Or the Harvard study that showed that most people more people get sober with no treatment that through AA?
But my all time favorite study was run by George Valliant, Harvard researcher and member of the AA Board of Trustees, in attempting to prove that AA worked, he came up with this conclusion:
”Not only had we failed to alter the natural history of alcoholism, but our death rate of three percent a year was appalling.”
But he didn’t let a little thing like facts stand in his way, he still promotes AA.
For those who want to read more about these studies and AA’s efficiency, go to:
http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-effectiveness.html (http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-effectiveness.html)
Anne OK, so you have a AA member, who is not now. Giving his opinion. Great I would not say someone bouncing in and out of AA for twenty years a expert but I'm sure that is the best you could do on short notice. Are you sure he is still sober, just ask'in. Then we have the OJ papers, one person opinion against 2 million.
Hey here is something for ya, go find a article AA wrote criticizing another avenue to sobriety. Please, google or bing, find me a souce, web site sponsored by AA GSO NYC, that defames, bashes or refutes other sources that help folks recover.
Let me help you, you will not find one because we don't advertise we are the "only way" to get sober. We know we are not. We are just one way.
Some people do credit AA for their sobriety, mainly because that’s were they were when they made to decision to stop, but that’s like something always being in the last place you look....you stop looking.
Ya that's what it was Anne, SO HELP ME GOD!!!!!!!!
A comparison was done of 48 different methods of recovery, AA placed 38th in effectiveness:
http://www.behaviortherapy.com/whatworks.htm (http://www.behaviortherapy.com/whatworks.htm)
OK.......... Sounds like it bothers you, Anne.
Why should AA be immune to valid criticism? Where are the studies, the facts and figures that prove AA works? All you have are the testimonials of people who claim AA worked for them, what about the testimonials of those who say it didn’t and those who say it harmed them?
I don't know Anne, why are they so important to you and not the testimonials from folks who say it helped them. There are so many more of them, like 1000 to 1. (just a guess)
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God Loves A Drunk
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God Loves A Drunk
Of course he does, God loves every one, Frodie.
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No here is the real lesson, Anne but first let me state that I am sick and tired of your stubbornness (just joking), here on this topic.
Hey, you're the one seeking attention by constantly posting a thread about this topic and then respond to yourself when we all ignore you.
Here is your citation, me. Two decades of experience, need I say more. This can not be refuted.
That you wasted 2 decades of your life devoted to AA cannot be refuted, but your "citation" of yourself doesn't prove a damn thing. Do you really not understand the difference between proof and anecdotal stories?
You can claim it's all lies, but that doesn't mean they, as an organization are not successful. I've had good experience with AA/NA, and I post about it, that's where I'm coming from.
Ok...that's your experience and your opinion. Valliant's study proves differently.
Suck It and I are involved with AA, we are living it. Have been blessed by the rewards of AA 12 steps. That is the difference between you and the both of us.
The difference between you and me is that I grew the balls to take responsibility for my actions and grew up. You've devoted 2 decades to a pseudo-cult.
Also Anne, you do not have extensive experience with AA first hand, you were in a 12 step program that greatly distorted the 12 steps to a point they were unrecognizable to any AA in the real world. Anne, Suck It and I, freely came to AA and picked up the tools of the 12 steps.
I have years of experience with AA and I've told you that several times. I've also had family members in AA and seen what it's done to (not for) them.
Anne this statement right here, speaks volumes about your lack of experience with the Real Free World Of AA. As I said above you were involved with a narcissist ugly form of the 12 steps. I can't even call it AA because it was not. You have been so traumatized by this experience that you believe AA in the real world is also like what you were taught at Straight. Well this is just not true.
I know you have stated in the past that you have attended AA meeting outside of Straight. I believe you Anne, I also know that you were abused by Straight prior to going to meetings outside. You were already contaminated, Anne. Prejudice had set in.
To the contrary...I was hoping that AA would be different than Straight. I was wrong. There were/are sooooooo many similarities it's downright scary.
As far as studies Anne, you just don't get it and you probably never will. That's fine too because your not a alcoholic or drug addict. So what difference does it really make.
Because I have friends and family who needed help, not lies.
We do not concern ourselves with surveys and reports.
Well, of course not. Why let facts get in the way of your opinions?
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Here is your citation, me. Two decades of experience, need I say more. This can not be refuted.
That you wasted 2 decades of your life devoted to AA cannot be refuted, but your "citation" of yourself doesn't prove a damn thing. Do you really not understand the difference between proof and anecdotal stories?
As far as studies Anne, you just don't get it and you probably never will. That's fine too because your not a alcoholic or drug addict. So what difference does it really make.
Because I have friends and family who needed help, not lies.
We do not concern ourselves with surveys and reports.
Well, of course not. Why let facts get in the way of your opinions?
On a similar note, James Arthur Ray confuses testimonials with being equivalent to "scientific studies." See this great little debate with John Norcross, which appeared on a short segment of CBS News three years ago: LINK (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=21057&p=372069#p372069)
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Danny....the title of the thread is Addicts helping Addicts......does that "help" include dragging a girl around behind a van as a "therapeutic tool"?
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Anne why are you arguing a point that we already agree on. Your point is, you have no idea what the heck your talking about and we agree.
This is why people call you names, you asswipe.
Stop calling us names, you don't like it when others call you names, do you.
No, it really doesn't bother me that much. I grew immune to it in Straight.
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Hi Anne Bonney
I don't avoid questions, but I do avoid extremist personalities not open to discussion. I don't think you are one of them really.
Ok then.....which program did you attend?
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Marijuana G E T S . Y O U . H I G H . . .
I love that about it....whether it's a drug or not is a secondary issue.. :rasta:
Yo, Frodie get high, Dude. Then get high again, get your family high, your grandson get him high. Sit with your daughter when she tells you she is pregnant and hand her the, "fatty" and get her high. Go to work get your boss high, find the owner and get him high. Call your State Senator, get him high, call your congressmen and get him high.
Barak and Michelle ask them to get high, hand the "fatty" to his daughters and get them high.
Drive across town and get high, go to WalMart and get high. Ask your grandmother for money and get her high, then you get high.
Take your dog for a walk, no don't get him high but show him how, "you need to get high".
You are high, "Frodie", way "HIGH".
Wow.....and you call us "extremists". Do you really think the average person who smokes gets their grandkids/daughter or other families high? This is another example of AA thinking.....if you use any substance, you're an addict. I'm sorry you guys are so jealous that we can handle our drinks/weed and you obviously can't.
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What is really sickening is these addict losers thinking their gonna save everybody else from themselves. They want to convince every weak-minded deadbeat like themselves that they are "powerless" over drugs and alcohol so that they dont have to feel like a degenerate piece of filth for letting a substance control their lives. My question to any neutral person reading this is simple: Do you want your children being "treated" by someone who has already shown by their past behavior that they have absolutely no moral compass whatsoever. DannyBII, Whooter, Suck it and other such trash are always ready to "relapse" and start giving blowjobs for dope money in a heartbeat. I wouldn't allow my children to even associate with ex-crack head, needle junkie human garbage like that.
Come on you troll filth, there is your red meat, wanna bite?
Why, we are shuttering to think, this is how you relate to your wife and children. WoW.
Another sick troll fishing for reactions, how pathetic is that.
Why do you assume that the way someone "speaks" here is the same way they relate to their families at home? Are you that disconnected from reality?
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No danny you ceratinly are not my problem but you are a problem for Fornits. You and the drug addicted scum you represent are engaged, by your own admittance, in an organized campaign to harrass any and all who come here seeking answers about their abusive treatment at the facilities you represent. As far as the credibility issue you raised, I have friends who come to this site regularly who know me personally and know that everything i have said is 100 percent right on. Whether or not some low life drugged out "powerless" dirtbag believes a word i say, is utterly irrelevant. I am not even here to have a serious conversation anymore because you have made that impossible now. I will now devote myself to doing back to you here what you have done to others previously. Yeah I need some fun too. BTW, when you were blowing truckers for meth money did you let them finish in your mouth or did you prefer facials? Just wonderin drug addict. I mean you can tell us right? Your not responsible for that right? Your powerless over drugs. You have a disease. Right?
Oops almost forgot, you ordered me to never and I mean never say that I speak for Straight survivors. Well I never claimed to speak for anyone but myself but since I dont take orders from crackhead needle junkies I am now officially declaring myself spokesperson for 100 percent of Straight survivors. Yep im the new fuckin president of our club.
Like I said Shaggy, you are a nuisance. I deal with folks like you all the time. No big deal. Your probably a poster here already, impersonating yourself.
So go on with your filthy posts, make sure you let your wife and kids read them. Don't live a double life.
See I think your a liar, there is no way you can be in a loving relationship with others and speak like this. Unless there is something else happening here, Hhhhhmmmmm........will see.
You are, without a doubt, one of the biggest idiots I've come across in a very long time.
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Hi Anne Bonney
I don't avoid questions, but I do avoid extremist personalities not open to discussion. I don't think you are one of them really.
Ok then.....which program did you attend?
Like I said, readers are free to draw their own conclusions on why somebody might want to keep personal information to themselves on a forum hostile to any pro treatment ideas. As I've said before, I went to a program that has its own dedicated forum here. I also went to another program that is not mentioned once here. I've also participated in AA/NA and that is why I comment on it like this thread. If it lowers my credibility to keep some information to myself that's a price I'm willing to pay.
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Hi Anne Bonney
I don't avoid questions, but I do avoid extremist personalities not open to discussion. I don't think you are one of them really.
Ok then.....which program did you attend?
Like I said, readers are free to draw their own conclusions on why somebody might want to keep personal information to themselves on a forum hostile to any pro treatment ideas.
Stating which program you attended is not personally identifying information. So, I guess it can't hold up to scrutiny then, huh?
As I've said before, I went to a program that has its own dedicated forum here.
Which is why you're scared shitless to identify it.
If it lowers my credibility to keep some information to myself that's a price I'm willing to pay.
You really have no credibility to begin with, so it can't exactly hurt it.
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Hi Anne Bonney
I don't avoid questions, but I do avoid extremist personalities not open to discussion. I don't think you are one of them really.
Ok then.....which program did you attend?
Like I said, readers are free to draw their own conclusions on why somebody might want to keep personal information to themselves on a forum hostile to any pro treatment ideas.
Stating which program you attended is not personally identifying information. So, I guess it can't hold up to scrutiny then, huh?
As I've said before, I went to a program that has its own dedicated forum here.
Which is why you're scared shitless to identify it.
If it lowers my credibility to keep some information to myself that's a price I'm willing to pay.
You really have no credibility to begin with, so it can't exactly hurt it.
Of course it doesn't hold up to the scrutiny of fornits, it has its own subforum here. But then again, does any program stand up to the scrutiny of fornits? We both know the answer to that. If I have no credibility, you and other people sure waste a lot of time arguing against me. Feel free to avoid my threads if you feel that way.
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Of course it doesn't hold up to the scrutiny of fornits, it has its own subforum here.
Apparently for good reason.
But then again, does any program stand up to the scrutiny of fornits?
Yes, voluntary, with real professionals that don't use the humiliation tactics or isolation or censor contact with family or use pain compliance, or shock treatment that the TTI seems so fond of.
Now, since it won't compromise your identity....which program(s) did you attend?
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I could tell you a long story in response to your last post, but I don't have time right now. The world isn't black and white.
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I could tell you a long story in response to your last post, but I don't have time right now. The world isn't black and white.
Mmmmmm hmmmmm........sure you could. ::)
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SUCK IT are you still being a manwhore trolling for attention? ::OMG:: ::OMG:: ::OMG::
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Danny....the title of the thread is Addicts helping Addicts......does that "help" include dragging a girl around behind a van as a "therapeutic tool"?
Absolutely, so long as she got sober. Some folks have been known to roll a peanut down the road with there nose, to get sober.
Hey, just say'in.
Anne, the girl behind the van has lost its appeal.
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No here is the real lesson, Anne but first let me state that I am sick and tired of your stubbornness (just joking), here on this topic.
Hey, you're the one seeking attention by constantly posting a thread about this topic and then respond to yourself when we all ignore you.
Anne, stop being antagonistic. What made you think I was referring to you. I did not request a certain person reply specifically.
Here is your citation, me. Two decades of experience, need I say more. This can not be refuted.
That you wasted 2 decades of your life devoted to AA cannot be refuted, but your "citation" of yourself doesn't prove a damn thing. Do you really not understand the difference between proof and anecdotal stories?
No, not wasted Anne, conscious decisions. Anne, if they were to do a studies, surveys and report this info to a peer review, don't ya think that I would be a perfect example of that study. Why, yes I would. Thanks.
So lets just cut to the chase and say, "I am your citation". Actually I am very serious. Frankly, this is about as close to a citation, your going to get.
Well, you should already know this because you have extensive experience with AA.
You can claim it's all lies, but that doesn't mean they, as an organization are not successful. I've had good experience with AA/NA, and I post about it, that's where I'm coming from.
Ok...that's your experience and your opinion. Valliant's study proves differently.
Suck It and I are involved with AA, we are living it. Have been blessed by the rewards of AA 12 steps. That is the difference between you and the both of us.
The difference between you and me is that I grew the balls to take responsibility for my actions and grew up. You've devoted 2 decades to a pseudo-cult.
So your saying I have not taken responsibility for my life because I am affiliated with AA. I do take responsibility for my set of balls, god gave them to me. Thanks.
Your growing a set of balls explains a lot about your personality. Your a very aggressive, "shemale" or what ever they call women who grows balls.
AA is not a pseudo-cult or a cult. Anne it is free, on so many levels.
Also Anne, you do not have extensive experience with AA first hand, you were in a 12 step program that greatly distorted the 12 steps to a point they were unrecognizable to any AA in the real world. Anne, Suck It and I, freely came to AA and picked up the tools of the 12 steps.
I have years of experience with AA and I've told you that several times. I've also had family members in AA and seen what it's done to (not for) them.
Anne I am trying to believe you but you make it very hard. You can not count your time in Straight, we are talking AA on the outside. Your family members going to AA, has nothing to do with you, so stop acting like Ginger here. She loves to say she knows all about AA, through her family, also.
We are talking about your experiences and by your comments and opinions/experiences, you have had either no experience with AA or one to two meeting worth of AA.
Anne this statement right here, speaks volumes about your lack of experience with the Real Free World Of AA. As I said above you were involved with a narcissist ugly form of the 12 steps. I can't even call it AA because it was not. You have been so traumatized by this experience that you believe AA in the real world is also like what you were taught at Straight. Well this is just not true.
I know you have stated in the past that you have attended AA meeting outside of Straight. I believe you Anne, I also know that you were abused by Straight prior to going to meetings outside. You were already contaminated, Anne. Prejudice had set in.
To the contrary...I was hoping that AA would be different than Straight. I was wrong. There were/are sooooooo many similarities it's downright scary.
Anne, like I said above I am trying to believe you but it is very hard because you will resort to fabrications to make a point, without any remorse.
Your entire experience with AA, has been reading the OJ papers, various ex-members of AA (who you don't know personally) and here on fornits. That should tell the audience something right there.
As far as studies Anne, you just don't get it and you probably never will. That's fine too because your not a alcoholic or drug addict. So what difference does it really make.
Because I have friends and family who needed help, not lies.
Ya and AA just messed them up. Totally ruined their lives, completely. I mean their probably still in a mental institution right now. Can we get any more dramatic, Oh, yes we can. Get your buddy Ursus and James Ray, then we can really party.
I'm sure your friends are just fine, they probably were not alcoholics like you. So what the hey, they did not belong there.
We do not concern ourselves with surveys and reports.
Well, of course not. Why let facts get in the way of your opinions?
NO not opinions Anne, (definition of opinion, theory....) I did not and am not living a theory, this is real.
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Marijuana G E T S . Y O U . H I G H . . .
I love that about it....whether it's a drug or not is a secondary issue.. :rasta:
Yo, Frodie get high, Dude. Then get high again, get your family high, your grandson get him high. Sit with your daughter when she tells you she is pregnant and hand her the, "fatty" and get her high. Go to work get your boss high, find the owner and get him high. Call your State Senator, get him high, call your congressmen and get him high.
Barak and Michelle ask them to get high, hand the "fatty" to his daughters and get them high.
Drive across town and get high, go to WalMart and get high. Ask your grandmother for money and get her high, then you get high.
Take your dog for a walk, no don't get him high but show him how, "you need to get high".
You are high, "Frodie", way "HIGH".
Wow.....and you call us "extremists". Do you really think the average person who smokes gets their grandkids/daughter or other families high? This is another example of AA thinking.....if you use any substance, you're an addict. I'm sorry you guys are so jealous that we can handle our drinks/weed and you obviously can't.
Anne, it was a attempt at comedy/satire.....get it. Relax child and burn one.
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No danny you ceratinly are not my problem but you are a problem for Fornits. You and the drug addicted scum you represent are engaged, by your own admittance, in an organized campaign to harrass any and all who come here seeking answers about their abusive treatment at the facilities you represent. As far as the credibility issue you raised, I have friends who come to this site regularly who know me personally and know that everything i have said is 100 percent right on. Whether or not some low life drugged out "powerless" dirtbag believes a word i say, is utterly irrelevant. I am not even here to have a serious conversation anymore because you have made that impossible now. I will now devote myself to doing back to you here what you have done to others previously. Yeah I need some fun too. BTW, when you were blowing truckers for meth money did you let them finish in your mouth or did you prefer facials? Just wonderin drug addict. I mean you can tell us right? Your not responsible for that right? Your powerless over drugs. You have a disease. Right?
Oops almost forgot, you ordered me to never and I mean never say that I speak for Straight survivors. Well I never claimed to speak for anyone but myself but since I dont take orders from crackhead needle junkies I am now officially declaring myself spokesperson for 100 percent of Straight survivors. Yep im the new fuckin president of our club.
Like I said Shaggy, you are a nuisance. I deal with folks like you all the time. No big deal. Your probably a poster here already, impersonating yourself.
So go on with your filthy posts, make sure you let your wife and kids read them. Don't live a double life.
See I think your a liar, there is no way you can be in a loving relationship with others and speak like this. Unless there is something else happening here, Hhhhhmmmmm........will see.
You are, without a doubt, one of the biggest idiots I've come across in a very long time.
WOW, I think we found out who shaggy is or pretty close..... :rofl:
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Marijuana G E T S . Y O U . H I G H . . .
I love that about it....whether it's a drug or not is a secondary issue.. :rasta:
Yo, Frodie get high, Dude. Then get high again, get your family high, your grandson get him high. Sit with your daughter when she tells you she is pregnant and hand her the, "fatty" and get her high. Go to work get your boss high, find the owner and get him high. Call your State Senator, get him high, call your congressmen and get him high.
Barak and Michelle ask them to get high, hand the "fatty" to his daughters and get them high.
Drive across town and get high, go to WalMart and get high. Ask your grandmother for money and get her high, then you get high.
Take your dog for a walk, no don't get him high but show him how, "you need to get high".
You are high, "Frodie", way "HIGH".
Wow.....and you call us "extremists". Do you really think the average person who smokes gets their grandkids/daughter or other families high? This is another example of AA thinking.....if you use any substance, you're an addict. I'm sorry you guys are so jealous that we can handle our drinks/weed and you obviously can't.
Anne, it was a attempt at comedy/satire.....get it. Relax child and burn one.
Hey Danny, your mother and I just burned one, and then shortly thereafter I found out why they call her "Shaggy" on the street.
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Yeah Im still here danno. Trying to ignore your insanity/multiple personality disorder. I see you have more than one nemesis here already danno. Surely you dont need more or are you addicted to attention as well as alcohol, drugs and child abuse?
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Yeah Im still here danno. Trying to ignore your insanity/multiple personality disorder. I see you have more than one nemesis here already danno. Surely you dont need more or are you addicted to attention as well as alcohol, drugs and child abuse?
Danny's mother is addicted to my jock.
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Yo, Frodie get high, Dude. Then get high again, get your family high, your grandson get him high. Sit with your daughter when she tells you she is pregnant and hand her the, "fatty" and get her high. Go to work get your boss high, find the owner and get him high. Call your State Senator, get him high, call your congressmen and get him high.
Barak and Michelle ask them to get high, hand the "fatty" to his daughters and get them high.
Drive across town and get high, go to WalMart and get high. Ask your grandmother for money and get her high, then you get high.
Take your dog for a walk, no don't get him high but show him how, "you need to get high".
This is the best advice Danny has ever given anyone. Ever. Usually I disagree with the cocksucker, but I think he hit on something here. Hell, even a broken, bag-of-dicks-eating clock is right twice a day.
You are high, "Frodie", way "HIGH".
I certainly hope so, 'cause I like Frod and wish him and endless smoke session.
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"Hi, my name is SUCK IT and I'm an alcoholic"
If I came here asking for help and said this, I'd be laughed at and told to STFU. I would be told I am a weakling, incapable of controlling my own choices, and that I should be ashamed of myself. Just stop, is what I would be told. Well, this sort of advice doesn't help all that much. What if I went to "the professionals" as advised by some posters, and told them this? They would respond by asking for my insurance card or my credit card number. It's sad, but true. These people spend a lot of money on their education, and expect to be paid back and make a good salary, this is just the world we live in. That's their right, and nobody should be forced to work for less money than they are worth. What if I went to an AA meeting and said this? They would say, "Hi, SUCK IT, why don't you have a seat and listen". So I would, and at the end of the meeting someone would probably come up to me, and say "here's my phone number, call me if you need any help, anytime", and then another would come up and say "do you have plans right now? want to get some dinner and discuss sobriety?" Another might question " Do you have a sponsor yet?"
Now look at this honestly. Pretend you are me, SUCK IT, the alcoholic. Which one of these options is the most helpful? Which one provides you with the most relief, and the best chance of recovery? I know the hatred for AA runs pretty deep, what I can't really figure out is why. I don't see AA in the business of running private teen programs, so what's the problem? I know it works because I've seen it work. But even more importantly, at least it's there. To be shunned by the people here asking for help, told you don't have enough money for "The professionals" help, at least there are people out there who are willing to help. They do so because they are empathetic towards other alcoholics and addicts, and they don't expect anything in return. A lot of families give up on alcoholics, and drug addicts, and it's not to say without good reason a lot of times. When you are somebody who has truly hit rock bottom like this, AA , well really the people who make up AA, they are guardian angels who are saving people's lives, in every sense. So think about it for a while. If you were desperate, and at your rock bottom, where would you go for help? I guess you could always call that guy who advertises on CNN who has "the cure" to addiction and see if that works.
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Ursus wrote:
Something doesn't quite add up.
Danny wrote:
I know what a mystery, I love suspense. Well keep digging, Ursus I'm sure you will find a whole lot of nothing. Quibbling over a couple of months. Well you said this and you said that and bla, bla, bla.
Re-Entry Staff/Driver then Employee Staff 9/76-11/78.
Danny wrote:
Well you are right and I jumped a year on both, 8/77 and 4/79.
Ursus wrote:
Hmm. That would mean that the mother of your children probably got pregnant in November or December of 1976, presuming a full-term pregnancy.
According to http://www.elanalum.com/Forums/viewtopi ... 8500#p6540 (http://www.elanalum.com/Forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4035&p=6540&sid=9c9157d5d48852de58220af09c408500#p6540) this rendition of your story posted on elanalum.com a month ago, you were still a student at Elan at the time:
Danny wrote:
My goodness, my jolly good man, I think you got it.
Danny wrote:
Thank you very much, My name is Daniel L. Bennison, I was in Elan from 6/75-1/77, Staff 1/77-2/78, Ass.Director 2/78-11/78[/color]. Worked with Marty, Jeff, Peter, Marc R., Rick R., Ken Z., Janet R. ect..... So there is enough folks to validate my employment and residency.
Fornits is much different then this site and I have always respected this site for it's authenticity and its commitment to Elan people.
If more Elan folks would just come here and share there thoughts, opinions no matter what they are and stay away from bashing one another, I believe they would find healing here through others words.[/color][/b]
Ursus wrote:
However, according to viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1594&p=367462#p367462 (http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1594&p=367462#p367462) this rendition of your story posted here on fornits a month and a half ago, you were already staff:
Danny wrote:
There is that mystery, again.
Danny wrote:
Elan 4 was a lock down facility, with a electric lock switch controlled in the staff office. The mens and womens dorms were upstairs. I don't remember any cells being upstairs on either floor.
I worked there for 14 months from 10/76 till 2/78 with Peter McCann Director, Rick Rosenhaus Assistant Director, Larry Smaller, Steve Smith and myself as staff...
Ursus wrote:
Either way, regardless of whether you were still a student or were already a staff member, you were still at Elan. Was the mother of your children another Elan student?
Danny wrote:
You really don't know where I was. Your hoping these posts are accurate. They are and some are not as I have stated before. We/I intentionally put false information throughout these posts for security reasons. Where does the lie start and the truth end or maybe this has all been one big bullshit story. You will not know for some time if ever.
Personal information on a web site...... :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
The dates on my children are accurate, there will be no further conversation.
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Yo, Frodie get high, Dude. Then get high again, get your family high, your grandson get him high. Sit with your daughter when she tells you she is pregnant and hand her the, "fatty" and get her high. Go to work get your boss high, find the owner and get him high. Call your State Senator, get him high, call your congressmen and get him high.
Barak and Michelle ask them to get high, hand the "fatty" to his daughters and get them high.
Drive across town and get high, go to WalMart and get high. Ask your grandmother for money and get her high, then you get high.
Take your dog for a walk, no don't get him high but show him how, "you need to get high".
This is the best advice Danny has ever given anyone. Ever. Usually I disagree with the cocksucker, but I think he hit on something here. Hell, even a broken, bag-of-dicks-eating clock is right twice a day.
You are high, "Frodie", way "HIGH".
I certainly hope so, 'cause I like Frod and wish him and endless smoke session.
:rofl: :rasta: :tup: