Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Anonymous on September 26, 2003, 11:02:00 PM
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Anybody have any experience with this program or the qualifications and background of the people involved in it's operation?
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It seems brand new, and honestly putting kids that are having problems in planes doesnt seem like the best idea. Wonder if they are qualifed or making money off of parents that will fall for this. Either way, my kid wouldnt be there.
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Here is the bio for the Admissions Director:
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Gayle DeGraff is Admissions Director of Top Flight Academy. She is the mother of five children, all of whom have participated in wilderness programs with the exception of her youngest daughter. She has first-hand experience in observing powerful results from the opportunity for teens to ?find themselves? as a result of experiencing a therapeutic program. She has been involved in the at-risk teen industry since 1988. She began as Admissions Director for Challenger Foundation, moved to Summit Quest, and was also involved in admissions at Red Rock Canyon School and Red Rock Ranch Academy before joining the staff at Top Flight Academy.
http://topflightacademy.com/inside.php?link=bios (http://topflightacademy.com/inside.php?link=bios)
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FYI: Challenger was a Steve Cartisano program. Summit Quest was a start-up program run by a lady named Gayle D. Palmer who used to work for Challenger. Michelle Sutton was killed while participating in the Summit Quest program in May 1990.
READ MORE: Excerpt from LOVING THEM TO DEATH, Outside Magazine, October 1995
"As Cartisano's financial and legal difficulties mounted, the Challenger admissions director, a woman named Gayle Palmer, quit to start her own wilderness-therapy company, Summit Quest Inc. Palmer knew little about the backcountry or therapy beyond what she'd gleaned from pitching Challenger courses. "But Palmer got tired of working for Steve," says Doug Nelson, "so she hung out her shingle." Five students were enrolled in the inaugural Summit Quest course, which cost $13,900 for 63 days. Palmer sent the group to the arid Shivwits Plateau, near the North Rim of the Grand Canyon, supervised by two young counselors who were paid minimum wage. During the first several days, Michelle Sutton--a pretty 15-year-old who had enrolled voluntarily to regain self-esteem after an alleged date rape--complained repeatedly of exhaustion, sunburn, and nausea. As the group hiked through the desert, she vomited up most of the water she tried to drink and pleaded that she could not go on. According to counselors' field reports gathered by state and federal investigators, the lead counselor had been ordered to ignore such talk as manipulative behavior. "You have been sloughing off," she told Sutton. "You are now being warned." On May 9, 1990, during an ascent of 7,072-foot Mount Dellenbaugh, Sutton's speech became slurred, she cried out that she couldn't see, and then she lost consciousness and died. Palmer insisted to officials that Sutton had succumbed to a drug overdose, but the coroner found no drugs in her system and determined the cause of death to be dehydration. Although no charges were filed, Cartisano was quick to lash out at Palmer in the media, accusing her of criminal incompetence. "At Challenger," he gloated, "a tragedy like the one that killed Michelle Sutton could never happen."
FYI: A child did die while in a Challenger program, Kristen Chase, who was killed in June 1990.
source: http://web.outsideonline.com/magazine/1 ... _deth.html (http://web.outsideonline.com/magazine/1095/10f_deth.html)
Gayle DeGraff, Gayle D. Palmer. Two different people who share a common past?
:???:
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I think the mention of Summit Quest sends chills down everyones spine. That alone tells us to stay away. But like Anon said, why put kids in planes now.
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You missed the point, anon. Admissions Reps are the people doing the "admissions" ergo their qualifications and track record should be a parents first concern before they sign on the dotted line.
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Got it! Your are right.
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Hmmm, very interesting. Red Rock Ranch Academy? Red Rock Canyon School? Aren't these the same 2 programs recently asked about in another post?
:eek:
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Here's that post by Deborah showing that Red Rock Ranch Academy and Red Rock Canyon School are NOT affiliated with WWASPS. Of these 2 programs, only Red Rock Canyon School is still operating, though apparently there has been a lawsuit filed against it. The program where a child tragically died from injuries sustained in a fall and whose parents have filed the $6 million dollar lawsuit appears to be Red Rock Ranch Academy from what I gather. Still, this is totally confusing!!!
Red Rock Springs - WWASP
http://www.schools4teens.com/rrs.html (http://www.schools4teens.com/rrs.html)
http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives ... /np03.html (http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives/1998/10/np03.html)
1998 Kevin Hansen, Adms. Director
http://www.ytyt.org/infobank/document.cfm/parent/522 (http://www.ytyt.org/infobank/document.cfm/parent/522)
Serves mainly as a short-term holding area for youths on their way to other Teen Help programs. Because of overcrowding, Utah?s Department of Human Services put the program under close observation through June. Red Rock Springs intends to expand to 200 beds if it can obtain water rights. (It?s going to call itself a boarding school, so it won?t need to be licensed.)
Red Rock Academy- WWASP
http://www.teennewhorizons.com/pgmresid.htm (http://www.teennewhorizons.com/pgmresid.htm)
http://www.denver-rmn.com/desperate/sit ... rate.shtml (http://www.denver-rmn.com/desperate/site-desperate/mpg6-desperate.shtml)
Red Rock Canyon- Not
http://www.rrrtc.com/ (http://www.rrrtc.com/)
http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives ... /np05.html (http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives/2000/2/np05.html)
http://entertainment.msn.com/artist/?artist=112411 (http://entertainment.msn.com/artist/?artist=112411)
http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives ... een03.html (http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives/2000/12/seen03.html)
(November 21, 2000) announced their Maternity Program, designed to help young mothers through a successful pregnancy.
http://www.teenadvocatesusa.homestead.c ... a2003.html (http://www.teenadvocatesusa.homestead.com/Agenda2003.html)
May 2001 Lawsuit- Broken neck
http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives ... een02.html (http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives/2001/6/seen02.html)
(June 1, 2001) Abe Dalley,announced an expansion of their program to provide a wilderness experience. Dalley stated ?We recognize the value of Wilderness in taking the lead in preparing a student for long term care.? The field Director is Clint Dalley and his assistant is Jason Barchi.
Red Rock Ranch Academy-Not
http://www.teenadvocatesusa.homestead.c ... a2003.html (http://www.teenadvocatesusa.homestead.com/Agenda2003.html)
$6 Mil Wrongful Death Lawsuit
http://www.sltrib.com/2003/jul/07132003/utah/75064.asp (http://www.sltrib.com/2003/jul/07132003/utah/75064.asp)
Update
http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives ... heard.html (http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives/2002/12/dec02seennheard.html)
(November 20, 2002) Abe Dalley, owner of Red Rock Ranch Academy, St. George Utah, 888-921-597, announced to Woodbury Reports Inc. that the outdoor program is in the process of closing. It should not be confused with Red Rock Canyon School.
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All four programs she's had involvement with
have killed or seriously injured.... should be a big red flag. Cut her teeth on the grandaddy program of abuse programs. No mention of professional credentials either? Does her "first hand experience" qualify her to open shop treating "troubled teens"?
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This is very innovative, I'd be curious to know what parents have to say about the program and whether any of these kids went on to pursue a career in aviation?
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Wonder if that's where the guy who didn't want to learn how to land went :smile:
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This chick has had *all five* of her kids have to go into programs?
She sounds like one hell of a lousy parent.
Why in the hell would a parent who has managed to raise two or three of their own kids without resort to these dangerous programs trust this idiot bitch with their one precious child who is having problems?
If they've raised *any* child all the way through without programs, they're *way* more competent as parents than she is.
Geez, this is like sending your kid to post-rape counseling with some guy whose only credentials are that he's the father of a convicted rapist.
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On 2003-09-27 10:25:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Here is the bio for the Admissions Director:
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Gayle DeGraff is Admissions Director of Top Flight Academy. She is the mother of five children, all of whom have participated in wilderness programs with the exception of her youngest daughter. She has first-hand experience in observing powerful results from the opportunity for teens to ?find themselves? as a result of experiencing a therapeutic program. She has been involved in the at-risk teen industry since 1988. She began as Admissions Director for Challenger Foundation, moved to Summit Quest, and was also involved in admissions at Red Rock Canyon School and Red Rock Ranch Academy before joining the staff at Top Flight Academy.
http://topflightacademy.com/inside.php?link=bios (http://topflightacademy.com/inside.php?link=bios)
-----------------------------------------------
FYI: Challenger was a Steve Cartisano program. Summit Quest was a start-up program run by a lady named Gayle D. Palmer who used to work for Challenger. Michelle Sutton was killed while participating in the Summit Quest program in May 1990.
READ MORE: Excerpt from LOVING THEM TO DEATH, Outside Magazine, October 1995
"As Cartisano's financial and legal difficulties mounted, the Challenger admissions director, a woman named Gayle Palmer, quit to start her own wilderness-therapy company, Summit Quest Inc. Palmer knew little about the backcountry or therapy beyond what she'd gleaned from pitching Challenger courses. "But Palmer got tired of working for Steve," says Doug Nelson, "so she hung out her shingle." Five students were enrolled in the inaugural Summit Quest course, which cost $13,900 for 63 days. Palmer sent the group to the arid Shivwits Plateau, near the North Rim of the Grand Canyon, supervised by two young counselors who were paid minimum wage. During the first several days, Michelle Sutton--a pretty 15-year-old who had enrolled voluntarily to regain self-esteem after an alleged date rape--complained repeatedly of exhaustion, sunburn, and nausea. As the group hiked through the desert, she vomited up most of the water she tried to drink and pleaded that she could not go on. According to counselors' field reports gathered by state and federal investigators, the lead counselor had been ordered to ignore such talk as manipulative behavior. "You have been sloughing off," she told Sutton. "You are now being warned." On May 9, 1990, during an ascent of 7,072-foot Mount Dellenbaugh, Sutton's speech became slurred, she cried out that she couldn't see, and then she lost consciousness and died. Palmer insisted to officials that Sutton had succumbed to a drug overdose, but the coroner found no drugs in her system and determined the cause of death to be dehydration. Although no charges were filed, Cartisano was quick to lash out at Palmer in the media, accusing her of criminal incompetence. "At Challenger," he gloated, "a tragedy like the one that killed Michelle Sutton could never happen."
FYI: A child did die while in a Challenger program, Kristen Chase, who was killed in June 1990.
source: http://web.outsideonline.com/magazine/1 ... _deth.html (http://web.outsideonline.com/magazine/1095/10f_deth.html)
Gayle DeGraff, Gayle D. Palmer. Two different people who share a common past?
:???:
Is this person, Gayle DeGraff, the same "Gayle DeGraff" who Sue Scheff testified about?
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Gayle needs her tubes tied, period. UGH.
The social principles of Christianity preach cowardice, self-contempt, abasement, submission, humility, in a word all the qualities of the canaille.
--Karl Marx, German economist and political philosopher
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As I understand it ....
Gayle DeGraff was the admissions director for one of the programs Sue Scheff/PURE referred to before she left to go work for Top Flight.
The question is was Gayle DeGraff formerly known as Gayle Palmer (Summit Quest, Challenger) or are these 2 different people?
??????
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Well what say those of you "in the know"?
Is Gayle DeGraff and Gayle Palmer the same person or is this purely a "coincidence"?
:???:
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On 2005-03-21 11:58:00, Anonymous wrote:
"As I understand it ....
Gayle DeGraff was the admissions director for one of the programs Sue Scheff/PURE referred to before she left to go work for Top Flight.
The question is was Gayle DeGraff formerly known as Gayle Palmer (Summit Quest, Challenger) or are these 2 different people?
??????
"
bump!
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Top Flight has an outstanding record, and there have been no deaths on that campus. Gayle Degraff is also not on staff at that facility, several years ago she helped make some placements to the school.
It is important to be accurate...isn't it?
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It is important to be accurate!
Please note you have replied to a 2 year old post.
:idea: Secondly, as a society we teach our children you are who you assoicate with. If you choose to hang out with gangsters or drug users, people will associate you with their practices. Same goes true of companies who employ people that have a track record of owning or working for substandard "Wilderness Therapy" programs where children were neglected, refused medical care, abused and died. [info found via the net]
Just food for thought. I would not choose a program that would employ someone with her background. It took me less then 2 minutes to find articles about her "situation". Unless of course, they didnt do a background check. What does that say for Top Flight? Not much in my book. If it is a "good" program then show it by hiring qualified employees. I am tired of the "lets be fair". No one was fair to the kids that suffered the abuse at the hands of greed. :flame:
Cheers!
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It is the SAME PERSON: GAYLE PALMER DEGRAFF.
And she has a LONG association with Sue Scheff/PURE.
It's all in the WWASP vs PURE transcripts.
Wonder if that "youngest daughter" of good-old-Gayle's has made it into a program yet?