Fornits
General Interest => Open Free for All => Topic started by: Maximilian on April 22, 2010, 01:11:49 PM
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I have found fornits to be a useful resource and was discussing it's legitimacy with a colleague of mine, and they explained that the posters on fornits are people who were in programs years ago, or even decades ago. Is this accurate? I think it's important we tell our readers how relevant our own experiences are compared to the safer, well designed, contemporary programs.
Let's work together to find out how relevant the experiences on this website are to current programs operating.
If you were a child who was sent to a program against your will, then please participate in this study. If you were an adult and chose to enter treatment or chose to go to AA or rehab or another of the off shoots of what you consider programs, please do not participate. Thank you, and remember this will help everyone.
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I have found fornits to be a useful resource and was discussing it's legitimacy with a colleague of mine, and they explained that the posters on fornits are people who were in programs years ago, or even decades ago. Is this accurate? I think it's important we tell our readers how relevant our own experiences are compared to the safer, well designed, contemporary programs.
Let's work together to find out how relevant the experiences on this website are to current programs operating.
If you were a child who was sent to a program against your will, then please participate in this study. If you were an adult and chose to enter treatment or chose to go to AA or rehab or another of the off shoots of what you consider programs, please do not participate. Thank you, and remember this will help everyone.
I think it is important to remember that the program I attended is still opperating a continuing criminal enterprise.
http://http://theelanschool.tumblr.com/
:beat:
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Thanks for participating everyone. If you haven't voted yet, please help this study and choose when you were last in a program. Thanks!
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I voted! :jerry:
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I have found fornits to be a useful resource and was discussing it's legitimacy with a colleague of mine, and they explained that the posters on fornits are people who were in programs years ago, or even decades ago. Is this accurate? I think it's important we tell our readers how relevant our own experiences are compared to the safer, well designed, contemporary programs.
Like MBA? Seems they were doing pretty much exactly the same thing CEDU was doing back in the day. Tell me how programs have changed so very much.
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I have found fornits to be a useful resource and was discussing it's legitimacy with a colleague of mine, and they explained that the posters on fornits are people who were in programs years ago, or even decades ago. Is this accurate? I think it's important we tell our readers how relevant our own experiences are compared to the safer, well designed, contemporary programs.
Like MBA? Seems they were doing pretty much exactly the same thing CEDU was doing back in the day. Tell me how programs have changed so very much.
If you don't mind I would like to add my two cents:
Much of the personal experiences here are really dated, psy, I think you can admit that. Now a days kids get unmonitored phone calls home. Special diets are accepted. When was the last time you heard of someone being wrapped in duct tape and tossed into the ocean? There is a thread going where the kids can hang out on the lawn with pedestrians walking by, no fences, they can just walk away if they like. All this mind control, locking kids in hobbits, making them lay face on the floor for days at a time or flapping their arms during group meetings is all in the past. We haven’t seen this in decades.
Will abuse occur? Absolutely. It occurs everywhere, in our public schools, at home, in private schools in residential programs and in Therapeutic boarding schools. No getting around it. As long as we continue to hire human beings then the risk is there. We just need to make smart choices and weigh the risk on an individual basis.
Are programs rooted in the past? Of course everything is…..Rooted to CEDU? Rooted to AA? NA? Does IBM have connections to Hitler? Yes it does!! They sold them punch card machines in 1937. Does this make their software evil? Should our government shut down IBM? Can we trace your family tree to a murderer or two? I am sure we can since they have managed to trace all of humanity back to just 9 people. Should you be viewed or treated differently because of what your ancestors did? Are we all bound to suffer because of our ancestors mistakes? I don’t think so. Many here may disagree.
We have come a long way and in another decade, hopefully, we will be doing a much better job than we are today.
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I have found fornits to be a useful resource and was discussing it's legitimacy with a colleague of mine, and they explained that the posters on fornits are people who were in programs years ago, or even decades ago. Is this accurate? I think it's important we tell our readers how relevant our own experiences are compared to the safer, well designed, contemporary programs.
Like MBA? Seems they were doing pretty much exactly the same thing CEDU was doing back in the day. Tell me how programs have changed so very much.
If you don't mind I would like to add my two cents:
Much of the personal experiences here are really dated, psy, I think you can admit that. Now a days kids get unmonitored phone calls home. Special diets are accepted. When was the last time you heard of someone being wrapped in duct tape and tossed into the ocean? There is a thread going where the kids can hang out on the lawn with pedestrians walking by, no fences, they can just walk away if they like. All this mind control, locking kids in hobbits, making them lay face on the floor for days at a time or flapping their arms during group meetings is all in the past. We haven’t seen this in decades.
Will abuse occur? Absolutely. It occurs everywhere, in our public schools, at home, in private schools in residential programs and in Therapeutic boarding schools. No getting around it. As long as we continue to hire human beings then the risk is there. We just need to make smart choices and weigh the risk on an individual basis.
Are programs rooted in the past? Of course everything is…..Rooted to CEDU? Rooted to AA? NA? Does IBM have connections to Hitler? Yes it does!! They sold them punch card machines in 1937. Does this make their software evil? Should our government shut down IBM? Can we trace your family tree to a murderer or two? I am sure we can since they have managed to trace all of humanity back to just 9 people. Should you be viewed or treated differently because of what your ancestors did? Are we all bound to suffer because of our ancestors mistakes? I don’t think so. Many here may disagree.
We have come a long way and in another decade, hopefully, we will be doing a much better job than we are today.
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:shamrock: :shamrock: :shamrock:
I totally misread this post, my bad (I am serious) I skimmed through this post very quickly and did not give it the reply it deserved.
Whooter, I am not exactly sure where you received your information on program operations today but the kids are not given anymore liberties then they were 10 yrs ago, this is coming from a staff member I personally know still working as staff.
Now 15, 20, 30, and 40 years ago wholesale violence, degradation, debasing, humiliation has changed to be much more subtle. They would be shut down with out a doubt if they acted as they did years ago.
Psy went on to explain the rest in his post below.
Danny
Danny
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Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
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...remember this will help everyone.
Anyone else notice how Pinocchio here left a ten year gap in the voting options? Chances are, most or all of these "votes" are his sock puppets! Come to think of it, Maximilian aka Pinocchio IS a puppet...
:roflmao: :roflmao:
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Speaking of puppets... :seg:
If you don't mind I would like to add my two cents:
Much of the personal experiences here are really dated, psy, I think you can admit that. Now a days kids get unmonitored phone calls home. Special diets are accepted. When was the last time you heard of someone being wrapped in duct tape and tossed into the ocean? There is a thread going where the kids can hang out on the lawn with pedestrians walking by, no fences, they can just walk away if they like. All this mind control, locking kids in hobbits, making them lay face on the floor for days at a time or flapping their arms during group meetings is all in the past. We haven’t seen this in decades.
Will abuse occur? Absolutely. It occurs everywhere, in our public schools, at home, in private schools in residential programs and in Therapeutic boarding schools. No getting around it. As long as we continue to hire human beings then the risk is there. We just need to make smart choices and weigh the risk on an individual basis.
Are programs rooted in the past? Of course everything is…..Rooted to CEDU? Rooted to AA? NA? Does IBM have connections to Hitler? Yes it does!! They sold them punch card machines in 1937. Does this make their software evil? Should our government shut down IBM? Can we trace your family tree to a murderer or two? I am sure we can since they have managed to trace all of humanity back to just 9 people. Should you be viewed or treated differently because of what your ancestors did? Are we all bound to suffer because of our ancestors mistakes? I don’t think so. Many here may disagree.
We have come a long way and in another decade, hopefully, we will be doing a much better job than we are today.
Anyone who is still in their right mind, and yet entertains that the above marketing spiel bears any resemblance to reality, needs to read Suzanne Rivecca's incisive piece (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=30440#p362605) about this industry and the ultimate effect it has on kids.
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Speaking of puppets... :seg:
If you don't mind I would like to add my two cents:
Much of the personal experiences here are really dated, psy, I think you can admit that. Now a days kids get unmonitored phone calls home. Special diets are accepted. When was the last time you heard of someone being wrapped in duct tape and tossed into the ocean? There is a thread going where the kids can hang out on the lawn with pedestrians walking by, no fences, they can just walk away if they like. All this mind control, locking kids in hobbits, making them lay face on the floor for days at a time or flapping their arms during group meetings is all in the past. We haven’t seen this in decades.
Will abuse occur? Absolutely. It occurs everywhere, in our public schools, at home, in private schools in residential programs and in Therapeutic boarding schools. No getting around it. As long as we continue to hire human beings then the risk is there. We just need to make smart choices and weigh the risk on an individual basis.
Are programs rooted in the past? Of course everything is…..Rooted to CEDU? Rooted to AA? NA? Does IBM have connections to Hitler? Yes it does!! They sold them punch card machines in 1937. Does this make their software evil? Should our government shut down IBM? Can we trace your family tree to a murderer or two? I am sure we can since they have managed to trace all of humanity back to just 9 people. Should you be viewed or treated differently because of what your ancestors did? Are we all bound to suffer because of our ancestors mistakes? I don’t think so. Many here may disagree.
We have come a long way and in another decade, hopefully, we will be doing a much better job than we are today.
Anyone who is still in their right mind, and yet entertains that the above marketing spiel bears any resemblance to reality, needs to read Suzanne Rivecca's incisive piece (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=30440#p362605) about this industry and the ultimate effect it has on kids.
I think it is important that we not discard or discredit those who disagree with us, Ursus. There are thousands of people who have opinions on the industry (myself included). Suzanne Rivecca has her opinion also and bases it on her exposure to the industry as do all of us. That’s pretty much what any of us can do. We need to respect each others experiences and allow them/us to express them here on fornits without fear of being attacked.
If we had a friend who did well in a program but was raped by a teacher in the public school system then no one could convince us that sending a child to public school is a safe or sane decision. We all know this. In hindsight we would all regret taking that child out of the program where she would have remained safe.
The main thing is that we are not seeing the abuse that was present 30, 20, 10 years ago. On top of that we went from a handful of programs 30 years ago to about 500 or more now (graduating upwards of 50,000 kids a year) and there are fewer complaints today then there are from the programs several decades ago.
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I have found fornits to be a useful resource and was discussing it's legitimacy with a colleague of mine, and they explained that the posters on fornits are people who were in programs years ago, or even decades ago. Is this accurate? I think it's important we tell our readers how relevant our own experiences are compared to the safer, well designed, contemporary programs.
Like MBA? Seems they were doing pretty much exactly the same thing CEDU was doing back in the day. Tell me how programs have changed so very much.
If you don't mind I would like to add my two cents:
Much of the personal experiences here are really dated, psy, I think you can admit that. Now a days kids get unmonitored phone calls home. Special diets are accepted. When was the last time you heard of someone being wrapped in duct tape and tossed into the ocean? There is a thread going where the kids can hang out on the lawn with pedestrians walking by, no fences, they can just walk away if they like. All this mind control, locking kids in hobbits, making them lay face on the floor for days at a time or flapping their arms during group meetings is all in the past. We haven’t seen this in decades.
Will abuse occur? Absolutely. It occurs everywhere, in our public schools, at home, in private schools in residential programs and in Therapeutic boarding schools. No getting around it. As long as we continue to hire human beings then the risk is there. We just need to make smart choices and weigh the risk on an individual basis.
Are programs rooted in the past? Of course everything is…..Rooted to CEDU? Rooted to AA? NA? Does IBM have connections to Hitler? Yes it does!! They sold them punch card machines in 1937. Does this make their software evil? Should our government shut down IBM? Can we trace your family tree to a murderer or two? I am sure we can since they have managed to trace all of humanity back to just 9 people. Should you be viewed or treated differently because of what your ancestors did? Are we all bound to suffer because of our ancestors mistakes? I don’t think so. Many here may disagree.
We have come a long way and in another decade, hopefully, we will be doing a much better job than we are today.
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Wow. That was the single biggest pile of bullshit I have ever seen in my life. You should be a lawyer. You're like Cochran, you're strategy is to confuse and obfuscate the obvious to confuse the living hell out of the jury. You're trying to deny bad things happen in programs today at the rate they did in the past. Well. I got news for you. A woman I know knows this kid who was living successfully (no drugs or alcohol even) away home until he was abducted by controlling parents and placed in a program in Utah. I can't begin to tell you the messed up stuff that has happened. This is going on today right now. Don't act like this is all in the past. The parents in this case don't believe what's really going on and even if they did i'm not sure they would do anything; after all they're getting the obedient little pet they always wanted, devoid of free will. This is not the gentle persuasion of "mother and father have been around longer than you have and know what's best". This is a concerted effort to strip a kid of his dignity, privacy, and ultimately his identity to present a marketable zombie. Well that zombie will eventually figure out what happened and when that happens he'll either turn his suffering inwards and self destruct or he'll act like nothing's happened and never really deal with things or he'll end up figuring things out and talking about it and finding some relief, perhaps here. It might take five years it might take ten, but it'll happen. Just because the "latest batch" hasn't shown up yet doesn't mean they aren't on the way.
The burden of proof is on you, Whooter, due to the track record of the industry, to show things have changed. I've heard "we've changed" far too many times and each and every time it turned out to be bullshit without exception. The only time programs ever change in my experience is to increase the effectiveness of their particular thought reform system, thereby providing a more marketable result with (they hope) a more stable programming (will probably never work). Sure Aspen brushed over the CEDU Propheets to make them superficially different from their "LifeSteps"... they saw what produced results and kept that while removing or improving on defective designs. They understood what they were doing and experimented with it on the kids... ultimately concluding that a lap dance to Kelis's "Milkshake" (a song about hand jobs) had therapeutic value... And when was MBA shut down for this crap? Now I don't necessarily agree with how the state went around doing it's business but the fact of the matter remains that this is what happened. Recently. Not ten or twenty years ago. Just last year. You want me to cite more examples? I can.
There is a thread going where the kids can hang out on the lawn with pedestrians walking by, no fences, they can just walk away if they like.
That has yet to be confirmed but if it's true and it's voluntary and accurately represented that place sounds more like a boarding school than a program. I have no problem with voluntary places. Never have, never will... So long as you can leave at any time and what they're going to be doing to you is accurately represented before it is done (informed consent). If it's not accurately marketed i'd object to it on grounds of fraud.
Now a days kids get unmonitored phone calls home.
It's almost always been like that, but only after a period of silence during which the child is convinced by the staff and peers that what's going on around him is completely normal. After that period of silence comes monitored calls during which the child often tries to say something to his parents and get cut off as a result. After the child realizes his parents won't every believe the crazy shit going on he gives up and gives in to the practical realization that the only way out is to give himself to the program. This turns into "without the program I cannot survive" eventually in the child's mind, creating a dependency. The program becomes a surrogate mother and father, providing conditional acceptance and love for compliance. It's only at this point where a child is given unmonitored phone calls and even those can be revoked at any point.
Often at this point things are generally quite quiet. The child works to progress in the program believing that they will let him progress. During this time the child's ethics and core beliefs are stripped and replaced with one of or compatible with the group**, his life story is revised to portray himself as the evildoer in most or all past events, and his past associations are portrayed as "diseased" or "not real friends". All too often parents do not approve of friends of their "troubled" kids so they express approval and reassure their kids in phone calls that they're coming to the right conclusions. The implication is that you have never truly lived before the program, that you've never connected with another human being, never felt real emotion, much less love. It's hard to resist when everybody around you is going "I was like you once. Now with the help of the program I feel like I found my real self".
So what's wrong with this if it produces results like I describe? Because there is an objective reality and once the child grows up a little and figures things out... figures out that what went on was neither normal nor therapy, the world they have constructed on those lies falls apart. It's a feeling of being raped. Of being violated in one's mind. I imagine victims of sexual abuse feel similar when they grow up and discover daddy wasn't really supposed to do that. It's a feeling of trusting in something and then losing that trust. Trusting in people only to find out they were preaching lies to you... That they did bad things to you (even if most of the staff had good intentions). And after that it's hard to trust again... But in this industry cynicism is not a bad thing. It's prudent, because these bad programs are hardly the exception. They're damn near the rule.
And a large part of the reason for that is that yes, a good portion of the industry is based on toxic philosophy and has cultic roots. It's well documented:
http://motherjones.com/politics/2007/08 ... n-industry (http://motherjones.com/politics/2007/08/cult-spawned-tough-love-teen-industry)
You ask how it extends to today's industry? In today's "clone" programs (close of past programs, often started by staff of defunct programs). The proof of that is in LifeSteps, Carlbrook school in VA, and countless others who have adopted marathon "seminars" similar or identitcal to CEDU's Propheets. Similar patterns apply to most other programs. There's very little that's original out there. Most of it is recycled from other programs. This happens when staff migrate and bring their teachings and practices with them.
** If you want to understand this process in more detail, read Margaret Singer's book, "Cults in Our Midst"
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Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
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You're trying to deny bad things happen in programs today at the rate they did in the past. Well. I got news for you. A woman I know knows this kid who was living successfully (no drugs or alcohol even) away home until he was abducted by controlling parents and placed in a program in Utah. I can't begin to tell you the messed up stuff that has happened. This is going on today right now. Don't act like this is all in the past…..
I did not say bad things do not happen in programs. What I said is bad things happen whenever humans are involved. This includes public school private school and programs. You sited one example of that is occurring to a child in a program. These events are occurring in the public sector as well. We have all read about the abuse in the state of Florida by the social workers and state employees.
The part you are missing is that several years ago we were all reading here stories of kids who were duct taped and tossed into the ocean….. taken to a hobbit and placed there for days at a time… denied food… forced to sit on chairs for hours on end and flap their arms, forced to lay faced down on cement etc. etc. These events are not happening now. We all see this. So if you step back and take a look at the level of the water, so to speak, we can all clearly see that programs have improved dramatically. So anyone reading here on fornits for the past several years has seen this also, whether they chose to admit it or not.
How many people would talk about programs where kids could come and go as they pleased 10 years ago on fornits (confirmed or unconfirmed)?
Your argument for unmonitored phone calls is weak. I actually know first hand that programs allow unmonitored phone calls from the first call home. They may restrict “who” you call, but they don’t listen in on your phone calls nor cut you off because they don’t like what you are saying. I think when a child flips out and starts screaming at their parents calling them Fucking assholes then the phone call would be terminated and the student may get pissed and eventually report it here on fornits as: “The staff must have listened to my call and interfered with their right to privacy.” Or some nonsense.
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Now a days kids get unmonitored phone calls home.
When I worked for Eckerd Youth Alternatives children made their telephone calls from the master counselor office. I did not want to be two feet away from the child when a telephone call was made, so I sat outside the master counselor office (the door was open). The children knew staff would listen to (monitor) telephone calls when they sat outside the master counselor office. Monitoring telephone calls wasn't something I enjoyed doing on the job. There was never a time I cut off a telephone call. If I heard loud voices I'd walk in the office, wait for the situation to simmer down, then leave.
This is pretty much the experience I have had. Many here on fornits believe that the kids cannot call home without staff listening in. What I saw was a bank of phones (6 phones) with partitions between each child so they wouldn’t be talking over each other. There would be counselors coming and going from the room but no one could possibly monitor the calls of those kids… eaves drop? Yes.
So in a program environment I am sure someone is in earshot of your conversation if they wanted to be. Growing up our phone was in the hallway near the front door and anyone who wanted to listen in could, I guess, but we didn’t consider it being “monitored”.
I guess we need to hammer out a definition of the word monitored. I view it as someone tied into the line listening to both sides of the conversation… sort of like wire tapping.
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Now a days kids get unmonitored phone calls home.
When I worked for Eckerd Youth Alternatives children made their telephone calls from the master counselor office. I did not want to be two feet away from the child when a telephone call was made, so I sat outside the master counselor office (the door was open). The children knew staff would listen to (monitor) telephone calls when they sat outside the master counselor office. Monitoring telephone calls wasn't something I enjoyed doing on the job. There was never a time I cut off a telephone call. If I heard loud voices I'd walk in the office, wait for the situation to simmer down, then leave.
This is pretty much the experience I have had. Many here on fornits believe that the kids cannot call home without staff listening in. What I saw was a bank of phones (6 phones) with partitions between each child so they wouldn’t be talking over each other. There would be counselors coming and going from the room but no one could possibly monitor the calls of those kids… eaves drop? Yes.
That's another way. But the program knows that they can rush in right after the call and do damage control. It could go something like this:
Program Rep: "Sir. We're very very sorry for how upsetting that last call must have been for you. One of our staff members happened to be passing by and heard him telling absurd things about the school. We'd just like to assure you that what your son said was false. Here. Talk to Ralph here. He's a level 1 on his way to being a level 2 and would like to talk to you freely and without fear of "consequences" from our program (wink wink). Oh. And here's a level 3. Name's Brian Isgon. Please talk to them all you want."
The rare child that speaks out is how lawsuits get started.
Few hours later the parents have calmed down. Few hours after that they're enraged at their bastard kid for trying to get back by lying and making them feel guilty. After it all dies down, they don't listen to their kids, if they ever did to begin with. Soon the kid gives up hope and gives in to the program... few weeks later he's singing "praise the program" to his parents on the phone. This convinces parents there has been a real underlying change and makes for very convincing marketing.
Few years later you read that same marketing and ... some of those kids are dead.
There are many ways you can run this con game Whooter. Superficial changes you're ranting about mean nothing. it's not proof. Where is the proof your precious indutry has changed? The burden is on you. If you expect these parents to entrust their kids to you, where is your proof you have changed? Educated parents want to know.
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That's another way. But the program knows that they can rush in right after the call and do damage control. It could go something like this:
Program Rep: "Sir. We're very very sorry for how upsetting that last call must have been for you. One of our staff members happened to be passing by and heard him telling absurd things about the school. We'd just like to assure you that what your son said was false. Here. Talk to Ralph here. He's a level 1 on his way to being a level 2 and would like to talk to you freely and without "consequences" from our program (wink wink). Oh. And here's a level 3. Name's Brian Isgon. Please talk to them all you want."
The rare child that speaks out is how lawsuits get started.
Few hours later they're calmed down. Few hours after that they're enraged at their bastard kid for trying to get back by lying and making them feel guilty. After it all dies down, they don't listen to their kids, if they ever did to begin with. Soon the kid gives up hope and gives in to the program... few weeks later he's singing "praise the program" to his parents on the phone. This convinces parents there has been a real underlying change and makes for very convincing marketing.
Few years later you read that same marketing and ... some of those kids are dead.
There are many ways you can run this con game Whooter. Superficial changes you're ranting about mean nothing. it's not proof. Where is the proof your precious indutry has changed? The burden is on you. If you expect these parents to entrust their kids to you, where is your proof you have changed? Educated parents want to know.
Look, psy, I have seen the phone banks. I made some calls using them. Unless the child is screaming on the phone there is little chance that anyone can hear what the kids are saying, especially with multiple conversations going on simultaneously. But I do understand that if there was that lone last child calling home and they were in the room alone with a staffer and the room was quiet for that period of time then his/her conversation could be overheard. So I see how some kids could say that their calls were being monitored. We both know that if this happened then fornits would hold this one event as the standard for all programs and try to make people believe that all kids’ calls are monitored.
But in any event if you step back and look at the stories from 10,20 30 years ago where the staff person was sitting next to each child or listening in on another line then you can see how far these places have come. I heard stories of staff just hanging up the phone in mid conversation if the child didn’t say the right thing. Now we have improved to the point where a Childs’ words can possibly be overheard if the conditions are just right.
Do you see now why the readers need to take the stories with a grain of salt? Torture, kidnapping, wiretapping, abuse, mind control, isolation and brainwashing…… when you get down to the actual facts the allegations fall apart fairly quickly which accounts for the lack of lawsuits in over 50,000 kids going through these places each year.
I also like how you try to relate children dying to just making a phone call… just thought you would toss that in there for effects?
Shall I say more?
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Look, psy, I have seen the phone banks. I made some calls using them. Unless the child is screaming on the phone there is little chance that anyone can hear what the kids are saying, especially with multiple conversations going on simultaneously. But I do understand that if there was that lone last child calling home and they were in the room alone with a staffer and the room was quiet for that period of time then his/her conversation could be overheard. So I see how some kids could say that their calls were being monitored.
From what I recall at Hyde, the phones were always located in areas that were relatively populated (e.g., in the hallways, near the central activity areas). In the dorms, it seemed like the higher up kids were housed in the rooms closest to the phones, but maybe that was just coincidence.
Given the way the peer culture is inculcated there, you'd have to be insane to complain or to convey too much negative information to your parents on the phone given that, in all likelihood, you'd be reamed a new asshole for your "bad attitude" during the next seminar if not that very evening by your dorm head (as well as during the next seminar). I can't speak for how things are now, but I can't imagine that they're much different.
The phones at Hyde may not have been physically monitored as in something analogous to a wiretap. But... that's because the psychological environment there created a self-censorship far more effective.
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At Rocklyn Academy, staff either sat in the room or actually listened on the line while parents were called-once a week for 15 minutes IF they didn't come up with an excuse to not allow any calls. If the student attempted to complain, life was going to be miserable and more than likely other excuses made to remove any priviliges, like outings and usually result in removing a level or not being able to move up. Of course, it could also mean removal of phone priviliges completely.
Emails( to parents only allowed) were also monitored both ways, and held back frequently without either student or parent being told.
There was no way for students to express safety concerns to an outside person.
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Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
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I have to agree, somewhat, that the environment is sometimes enough to censor or tone down the criticism. When I was in parochial school there were many kids that would never talk bad about the teachers/nuns no matter what they did for fear the nuns or priest would call your parents. The last thing anyone wants is for the kids to be bitching to their parents about the school all the time. In programs the kids only get 15 to 30 minutes on the phone so they should try to make it productive. I use to ask my daughter all the time how the people were and how she was treated. She told me straight out who was nice and who was an asshole. If the kid is getting abused or raped then anyone would speak up whether they can be overheard or not. But there will always be that one kid who acts out and loses privileges for the whole peer group. So then the peer group culture kicks in and puts pressure on the kid to cut the crap. So things do work out eventually and like I said if anything damaging were occurring the kid would tell his/her parents during the phone call.
Putting phones in the hallways is a good way to go because it is centralized but can be noisy and distracting at times. I like the set-up they had a ASR where they brought 6 – 8 separate lines in and banked them on a big table separated by partitions. This gave you a little more privacy and cut the noise level down.
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If the kid is getting abused or raped then anyone would speak up whether they can be overheard or not.
Nope. Not always. Especially when a program convinces a kid that the abuse is the kid's own fault. And especially when a program convinces all the other kids that that abuse is that kid's own fault.
So things do work out eventually and like I said if anything damaging were occurring the kid would tell his/her parents during the phone call.
Again, I disagree.
Of course, a lot also depends on the relationship between the kids and his parents, eh? If it was so fine, chances are, the kid wouldn't be in a program anyway.
It was my experience at Hyde that they drove a wedge of mistrust between kids and their parents, unless and until both parties drank the kool-aid sufficiently.
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Whooter " if a kid were getting raped" ??? does that happen a lot in your experience? apparently, it does. What sort are you that you can tolerate that, that that is normative? I think I've answered my own question, I guess I know what sort you are. J.O.M.
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It was my experience at Hyde that they drove a wedge of mistrust between kids and their parents, unless and until both parties drank the kool-aid sufficiently.
I have heard this in the past also, here on fornits. It has always been my experience and those of just about everyone else is that programs bring families closer. That is their main function. Typically the communication has broken down between the child and the parents and the central part of getting the child back on track is to repair this bound and trust. If it is true that Hyde is still doing this then this would be a great message to get out to prospective parents.
I don’t buy into the whole Kool-aid thing unless you mean being supportive of the school like… “I’m a Yale man”!! and wearing Yale sweatshirts and such and then I can see your point. But that isn’t destructive it just occurs naturally as you assimilate yourself into a group heading down the same path and have experiences in common.
@Justonemore: The word “Kid” was singular and was used as a hypothetical in my case. But yes I have read about many kids getting raped, especially in our public school system. Not so much in privately run programs. Do a google search and you will see what I mean.
...
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I have heard this in the past also, here on fornits. It has always been my experience and those of just about everyone else is that programs bring families closer.
...
It has always been my experience and those of just about everyone else is that Whooter is a boring, lame troll.
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Funny watching people spin to suit their agenda. Psy could have walked out at any time, as a legal adult who signed himself into a state-regulated rehab at the age of 18 he had that right. He could of walked to a payphone, called the cops or CPS (does child services help 18 year olds?) and told them he was being abused. But instead they focus on the lame excuse of peer pressure, oh no the staff and other kids would have got mad at me if I called anyone, so I just took it up the ass because I'm such a pussy! Sorry losers, that's not abuse , just proving the fact you are a bunch of passive, whining, cowards!
Ursus is the same, tell us Ursus how long ago were you in a program? Peer pressure ain't abuse no matter how you cut it. The hazing on sporting teams is worse than the "abuse" the people here claim to have endured. That's why when asked to prove they were abused, they write a long post talking about how it was "psychologically a prison" and shit like that, because they know it's not abuse by everyone else's definition of abuse. So they make a new fornits certified definition of abuse which includes staff telling you no, you can't do certain things. Boo-hoo! How sad that these people spend DECADES whining about this shit online to anyone gullible fool who will listen.
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^ :feedtrolls: :soapbox: :feedtrolls: ^
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Look, psy, I have seen the phone banks. I made some calls using them. Unless the child is screaming on the phone there is little chance that anyone can hear what the kids are saying, especially with multiple conversations going on simultaneously. But I do understand that if there was that lone last child calling home and they were in the room alone with a staffer and the room was quiet for that period of time then his/her conversation could be overheard. So I see how some kids could say that their calls were being monitored.
From what I recall at Hyde, the phones were always located in areas that were relatively populated (e.g., in the hallways, near the central activity areas). In the dorms, it seemed like the higher up kids were housed in the rooms closest to the phones, but maybe that was just coincidence.
Given the way the peer culture is inculcated there, you'd have to be insane to complain or to convey too much negative information to your parents on the phone given that, in all likelihood, you'd be reamed a new asshole for your "bad attitude" during the next seminar if not that very evening by your dorm head (as well as during the next seminar). I can't speak for how things are now, but I can't imagine that they're much different.
The phones at Hyde may not have been physically monitored as in something analogous to a wiretap. But... that's because the psychological environment there created a self-censorship far more effective.
:shamrock: :shamrock:
Peer pressure @ 14,15 or 16 yrs of age is very persuasive, if not said to you verbally then in conjecture from others. Whooter lets not rule out that element, especially being insecure and confused at first being in a treatment center.
Now I will say this the programs I have visited along with a staff members, while they were on duty at night showed very little supervision concerning phone calls. Probably because there was nothing to whine about. I will not rule out peer pressure being used as a tool to silence descent.
While I was staff phone calls were aloud and were monitored not because of what one might say about the program but to make sure you were calling your parents and not your lovers, friends, someone to come get you out of there, or calling the pizza man, (like someone did while I was there and had ordered 20 pizzas), very funny at the time. The pizza guy showed up with the pizzas during group time, I think during a primal scream check this out, "I want my Pizzzzzzzaaaaaaaaa" boom it's there. Seriously this happened, our Director at the time used to always order pizza for staff and himself and of course it would come to the door and we would deliver it upstairs to his office. That smell of pizza as a kid was overwhelming, so much that one resident (never found out) tried to get us all pizza but our Director would not pay for them and refused the order. Damn Ed Freidman.
Anyway so it is not always to make sure little Tommy is not bad-rapping the program it is for many reasons. I am sure Mom and Dad are expecting you to say bad things about a school/program they just hired to kidnap you, blindfold you and cart you off 1000 miles away.......DUH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What do you expect little Tommy to say, hey I am having a great time hauling rocks around and telling folks how I feel.
Danny
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It was my experience at Hyde that they drove a wedge of mistrust between kids and their parents, unless and until both parties drank the kool-aid sufficiently.
I have heard this in the past also, here on fornits. It has always been my experience and those of just about everyone else is that programs bring families closer. That is their main function.
I thought their main function was to make money. That's what they're expert at. It sure as hell isn't "behavioral health," or "character development," or, God forbid, "preparation for life!" Lol.
Sure, maybe these programs turn out to be "just the ticket" for a few families. Some people really do seem to have a real need for having a close, ideological identification with an organization, or cult, but that's not how they market themselves, is it? That dire prognosis of deadinsaneorinjail if not for the program doesn't really apply to 99% of the kids who get sucked into these joints, does it?
And when you consider that coercion always has its cost, these programs are not exactly a "benign remedy" for those families unfortunate enough to have been charmed by the glossy websites, the effusive YouTube clips, the marketing hard sell spun by Edcons. Buyer beware! :twofinger:
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It was my experience at Hyde that they drove a wedge of mistrust between kids and their parents, unless and until both parties drank the kool-aid sufficiently.
I have heard this in the past also, here on fornits. It has always been my experience and those of just about everyone else is that programs bring families closer. That is their main function.
I thought their main function was to make money. That's what they're expert at. It sure as hell isn't "behavioral health," or "character development," or, God forbid, "preparation for life!" Lol.
Sure, maybe these programs turn out to be "just the ticket" for a few families. Some people really do seem to have a real need for having a close, ideological identification with an organization, or cult, but that's not how they market themselves, is it? That dire prognosis of deadinsaneorinjail if not for the program doesn't really apply to 99% of the kids who get sucked into these joints, does it?
And when you consider that coercion always has its cost, these programs are not exactly a "benign remedy" for those families unfortunate enough to have been charmed by the glossy websites, the effusive YouTube clips, the marketing hard sell spun by Edcons. Buyer beware! :twofinger:
http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/posting.php?mode=quote&f=22&p=362800#
:shamrock: :shamrock:
Ursus, calling programs today cults I don't know about that. Ideological identification for parents, well ya. That is how they rationalize/process in their minds sending little Tommy to these centers.
Parents are lazy and want to be enabled, well 10000 programs are willing to do it. Look at our parents they are like the fore-fathers, are parents paved the way. I don't see our parents out there protesting or better yet here on fornits.
I know this all sounds crazy and it is, very crazy yet your parents and mine managed to be blind enough to send us to Maine to two crazy environments.
So keep blaming the Corporations and let the feeders go by, I personally think you would have more success with the feeders then the Corps.
Danny
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It was my experience at Hyde that they drove a wedge of mistrust between kids and their parents, unless and until both parties drank the kool-aid sufficiently.
I have heard this in the past also, here on fornits. It has always been my experience and those of just about everyone else is that programs bring families closer. That is their main function.
I thought their main function was to make money. That's what they're expert at. It sure as hell isn't "behavioral health," or "character development," or, God forbid, "preparation for life!" Lol.
Sure, maybe these programs turn out to be "just the ticket" for a few families. Some people really do seem to have a real need for having a close, ideological identification with an organization, or cult, but that's not how they market themselves, is it? That dire prognosis of deadinsaneorinjail if not for the program doesn't really apply to 99% of the kids who get sucked into these joints, does it?
And when you consider that coercion always has its cost, these programs are not exactly a "benign remedy" for those families unfortunate enough to have been charmed by the glossy websites, the effusive YouTube clips, the marketing hard sell spun by Edcons. Buyer beware! :twofinger:
Well I guess we all need the pay check before we can help others. Some of these places have very healthy balance sheets but others do struggle so they aren’t exactly cash cows. But I can tell by your posts that you had a bad experience and therefore feel that maybe if you accept that others did well in a program than that maybe you would feel that there is something wrong with you and question the cause of your own experience.
If you step out and look at the larger view you will see that there are 50,000 kids going thru the system every year and only a few are damaged by it. There are thousands of kids getting back on the right path without brainwashing or degrade to suicide or ptsd etc. The programs work and the proof is in the pudding, Ursus. Prospective families talk to families who have had kids go thru the system. They hear the success stories first hand. The programs have reunions with kids attending from years past and recent grads come back to attend future graduations. These are not signs of cults or brainwashing. Many programs have no fences and if you want out then you could break a few rules and get your ass tossed back home or just walk out….. we just read about a girl who ran away from a program and is now home with her family…. cults don’t operate like this. The studies are now being performed by outside agencies with oversight from independent third parties.... its getting harder and harder for you to keep denying or ignoring the facts.
To keep your beliefs alive, Ursus, you cherry pick articles and identify an abusive staff over here, a picture of a Hobbit over there and a few abusive stories and wala you are able to sit back cozy with your world intact. But your stories are collecting dust without new ones to replace them….things are changing around you and if you step outside your world you will see that todays programs just aint the same as the façade you have built for yourself over the years.
Sometimes a little sunlight is the best disinfectant.
...
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It was my experience at Hyde that they drove a wedge of mistrust between kids and their parents, unless and until both parties drank the kool-aid sufficiently.
I have heard this in the past also, here on fornits. It has always been my experience and those of just about everyone else is that programs bring families closer. That is their main function.
I thought their main function was to make money. That's what they're expert at. It sure as hell isn't "behavioral health," or "character development," or, God forbid, "preparation for life!" Lol.
Sure, maybe these programs turn out to be "just the ticket" for a few families. Some people really do seem to have a real need for having a close, ideological identification with an organization, or cult, but that's not how they market themselves, is it? That dire prognosis of deadinsaneorinjail if not for the program doesn't really apply to 99% of the kids who get sucked into these joints, does it?
And when you consider that coercion always has its cost, these programs are not exactly a "benign remedy" for those families unfortunate enough to have been charmed by the glossy websites, the effusive YouTube clips, the marketing hard sell spun by Edcons. Buyer beware! :twofinger:
Well I guess we all need the pay check before we can help others. Some of these places have very healthy balance sheets but others do struggle so they aren’t exactly cash cows. But I can tell by your posts that you had a bad experience and therefore feel that maybe if you accept that others did well in a program than that maybe you would feel that there is something wrong with you and question the cause of your own experience.
If you step out and look at the larger view you will see that there are 50,000 kids going thru the system every year and only a few are damaged by it. There are thousands of kids getting back on the right path without brainwashing or degrade to suicide or ptsd etc. The programs work and the proof is in the pudding, Ursus. Prospective families talk to families who have had kids go thru the system. They hear the success stories first hand. The programs have reunions with kids attending from years past and recent grads come back to attend future graduations. These are not signs of cults or brainwashing. Many programs have no fences and if you want out then you could break a few rules and get your ass tossed back home or just walk out….. we just read about a girl who ran away from a program and is now home with her family…. cults don’t operate like this. The studies are now being performed by outside agencies with oversight from independent third parties.... its getting harder and harder for you to keep denying or ignoring the facts.
To keep your beliefs alive, Ursus, you cherry pick articles and identify an abusive staff over here, a picture of a Hobbit over there and a few abusive stories and wala you are able to sit back cozy with your world intact. But your stories are collecting dust without new ones to replace them….things are changing around you and if you step outside your world you will see that todays programs just aint the same as the façade you have built for yourself over the years.
Sometimes a little sunlight is the best disinfectant.
...
:shamrock: :shamrock:
Your going to hate me all you "haters" of programs but as I said when the message is clear and on the money "Who" cares about the messenger.
Not all programs smell the same.
Danny
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What do you expect little Tommy to say, hey I am having a great time hauling rocks around and telling folks how I feel.
I'm sure many programs have learned how to steel parents' hearts to that type of expressed discontent. They tell parents to expect it. It's all part of "the process!" If anything, such complaints sometimes end up — paradoxically — verifying the program's "analysis" of the kid. The program's reputation of being "expert" at what they do actually gets enhanced. At least for awhile...
What programs do not want parents to hear from their kids, in this case re. Hyde School, is that they or one of their classmates had a serious sports injury for which they never received medical attention (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=22965&p=336117#p336117) (I guess the coach thought it too frivolous), that a kid is in danger of losing their thumbs (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=24743&p=306003#p305520) due to frostbite (were the complaints of pain thought to be whining?), that someone's leg was broken (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=26760&p=325976#p325028) due to strictly punitive 5-30 workouts (can you imagine the pain prior to the snap of bone?), that staff "forgot" to bring a kid's bipolar medication (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=469&p=8269#p8269) when dropping them off at outpost for some attitude adjustment (twice!), that a kid was sexually assaulted by staff (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=26515&p=322514#p322514) or fellow student(s) (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=22969&start=60#p357421), or that a kid actually died (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=22965&p=279299#p279291) there. These kinds of complaints have a substantially narrower range of interpretation though Hyde still manages to put an obfuscating spin on most of them!
Incidentally, I believe most of the above examples are relatively recent events, Whooter; if you wish, I can round up older examples of the same types of abuses. God knows, there are some real winners!! :D
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FROM THE LOOKS OF THIS PLACE ON FORNITS HALF OF YOU STILL NEED TO BE IN PROGRAM. HALF OF YOU ARE CRAZY AS HELLZ :suicide:
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What do you expect little Tommy to say, hey I am having a great time hauling rocks around and telling folks how I feel.
I'm sure many programs have learned how to steel parents' hearts to that type of expressed discontent. They tell parents to expect it. It's all part of "the process!" If anything, such complaints sometimes end up — paradoxically — verifying the program's "analysis" of the kid. The program's reputation of being "expert" at what they do actually gets enhanced. At least for awhile...
What programs do not want parents to hear from their kids, in this case re. Hyde School, is that they or one of their classmates had a serious sports injury for which they never received medical attention (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=22965&p=336117#p336117) (I guess the coach thought it too frivolous), that a kid is in danger of losing their thumbs (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=24743&p=306003#p305520) due to frostbite (were the complaints of pain thought to be whining?), that someone's leg was broken (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=26760&p=325976#p325028) due to strictly punitive 5-30 workouts (can you imagine the pain prior to the snap of bone?), that staff "forgot" to bring a kid's bipolar medication (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=469&p=8269#p8269) when dropping them off at outpost for some attitude adjustment (twice!), that a kid was sexually assaulted by staff (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=26515&p=322514#p322514) or fellow student(s) (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=22969&start=60#p357421), or that a kid actually died (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=22965&p=279299#p279291) there. These kinds of complaints have a substantially narrower range of interpretation though Hyde still manages to put an obfuscating spin on most of them!
Incidentally, I believe most of the above examples are relatively recent events, Whooter; if you wish, I can round up older examples of the same types of abuses. God knows, there are some real winners!! :D
Do you have anything that has been substantiated by an outside source? Say a police report. In the first one the kid bruised his thumb and the coach told him to get over it. How do we know the kid wasnt just seeking attention and made a big deal out of it by wrapping a toilet tube around it? There are kids who need more attention than others and will go to extremes to get it. Athletic coaches see injuries all the time and can easily determine what level of attention each one needs. Have you ever seen the daily injuries during football practice?
I mean you insist in third party verification for reports coming out of programs yourself, so why not keep the same standard for all information?
Do you have anything that has been validated?
...
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Demand proof programs are safe. Provide no proof they are dangerous. It's the fornits way.
Psy and Ursus were not abused and they can provide no proof, not even an anecdotal statement of fact . They refuse to address this topic at all because by even the most liberal interpretation of the word abuse, it still does not apply to them!
Instead of saying abused they need to say they are mad for making bad choices , Psy signing himself in, and ursus for being such a pussy.
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Demand proof programs are safe. Provide no proof they are dangerous. It's the fornits way.
Psy and Ursus were not abused and they can provide no proof, not even an anecdotal statement of fact . They refuse to address this topic at all because by even the most liberal interpretation of the word abuse, it still does not apply to them!
Instead of saying abused they need to say they are mad for making bad choices , Psy signing himself in, and ursus for being such a pussy.
WELL WE ALL SEE HOW PSY LIKES TO SHIFT BLAME AND NOT TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR HIS FUCKED UP ACTIONS. DOES THIS REALLY SURPRISE YOU HE WOULD MAKE CLAIMS EITHER. I AM SURE ABUSE DOES OCCUR BUT HONESTLY ALL I SEE IS A BUNCH OF ANGRY ADULTS PISSED THEY GOT CAUGHT BEING IGNRANT TO THEIR PARENTS AND BEING HELD ACCOUNTABLE. OF COURSE THEY DID NOT LIKE THE PLACES WHO THE FUCK WOULD. MY MOM WAS RAPED BUT IT WAS NOT DUE TO THE PLACE SHE WAS AT. HOW THEY HANDLED IT WAS WRONG BUT THEY ARE NOT TO BLAME FOR THE ACTUAL RAPE.
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Psy was not abused. He signed himself into a state regulated rehab at the age of 18 because he told his parents he was gay and not religious and somehow they convinced him to do it? All on the taxpayers dime because daddy worked for uncle sam! If Psy was abused, don't you think he would of called the cops and filed charges against them??? He already flew across the country to stalk the employees of the rehab he went to, and the cops had to stop him from stalking people. This place is a freak show run by the biggest freak of all!
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This place is a freak show run by the biggest freak of all!
Then you fit right in darlin'.
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This place is a freak show run by the biggest freak of all!
Then you fit right in darlin'.
FULL OF INSULTS ARENT YOU MISS SUPERIOR. YOU NEED THERAPY YOU ARE IN DENIAL BAD. SO STFU AND GO TAKE A NAP. SHIT HALF YOU OLD PPL NEED NAPS AND GET OFF THE DAMN COMPUTERS. ANTI SOCIAL MOTHER FUCKERS NO WONDER YOUR LIVES SUCK ASS.
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This place is a freak show run by the biggest freak of all!
Then you fit right in darlin'.
What year were you in a program, old timer?
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This place is a freak show run by the biggest freak of all!
Then you fit right in darlin'.
What year were you in a program, old timer?
Years, plural. Early 80s for two years, puddinhead.
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This place is a freak show run by the biggest freak of all!
Then you fit right in darlin'.
What year were you in a program, old timer?
Years, plural. Early 80s for two years, puddinhead.
SHE STILL NEEDS TO BE IN A PROGRAM CANT YOU TELL.
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This place is a freak show run by the biggest freak of all!
Then you fit right in darlin'.
What year were you in a program, old timer?
Years, plural. Early 80s for two years, puddinhead.
SHE STILL NEEDS TO BE IN A PROGRAM CANT YOU TELL.
What??? I can't hear you! You're not typing big or loud enough yet!
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YOU CALLED HIM PUDDINHEAD WTF IS THAT, YOU ARE FUCKEN OLD :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
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YOU CALLED HIM PUDDINHEAD WTF IS THAT, YOU ARE FUCKEN OLD :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
Yep, I am. :nods: :cheers: :seg:
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YOU CALLED HIM PUDDINHEAD WTF IS THAT, YOU ARE FUCKEN OLD :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
Yep, I am. :nods: :cheers: :seg:
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YOU CALLED HIM PUDDINHEAD WTF IS THAT, YOU ARE FUCKEN OLD :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
Yep, I am. :nods: :cheers: :seg:
Bigger!!!! I'm old and my eyes aren't so sharp anymore. Make it BIGGER!!!
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :twofinger: :twofinger: :twofinger: :twofinger: :twofinger:
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Raving Mad is a former ELAN graduate that has infected this country with mental defect and disease, like every other ELAN graduate has.
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What year were you in a program, old timer?
Early 80s
Damn! 30 years and you are still bitter and blaming?? I feel sorry for you.
To new program survivors if there are any new to fornits, in 30 years you might have this life to look forward to if you don't make changes now.
Think about it... 30 FUCKING YEARS OF BITTERNESS AND ANGER. Sad, just plain sad.
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What year were you in a program, old timer?
Early 80s
Damn! 30 years and you are still bitter and blaming?? I feel sorry for you.
To new program survivors if there are any new to fornits, in 30 years you might have this life to look forward to if you don't make changes now.
Think about it... 30 FUCKING YEARS OF BITTERNESS AND ANGER. Sad, just plain sad.
right you hit that one totally right there
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What year were you in a program, old timer?
Early 80s
Damn! 30 years and you are still bitter and blaming?? I feel sorry for you.
To new program survivors if there are any new to fornits, in 30 years you might have this life to look forward to if you don't make changes now.
Think about it... 30 FUCKING YEARS OF BITTERNESS AND ANGER. Sad, just plain sad.
Ah, yes.....my life of beach, boating, sun and fun is just horrible. ::) Mexico was AWESOME, by the way. :seg: :nods:
I'm here because of the kids still stuck in the shitpits.
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Ah, yes.....my life of beach, boating, sun and fun is just horrible. ::) Mexico was AWESOME, by the way. :seg: :nods:
Because nothing says I'm secure with my life and who I am than attempting to impress random internet people with your so called great life. If your life at the beach, boating, sun and fun is so great, why are you here wasting your time (and yes that is what you're doing and even you know that), 30 years after being in a program?
I'm here because of the kids still stuck in the shitpits.
You really need to stop lying to yourself. Do you think arguing with me helps the kids "stuck in the shitpits"? Does arguing with any other person on fornits somehow help, or impact the lives of the so called "kids still stuck in the shitpits?" Of course not! You need to find yourself another answer to this question, and when you do you might learn a long needed lesson about who you really are.
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Ah, yes.....my life of beach, boating, sun and fun is just horrible. ::) Mexico was AWESOME, by the way. :seg: :nods:
Because nothing says I'm secure with my life and who I am than attempting to impress random internet people with your so called great life. If your life at the beach, boating, sun and fun is so great, why are you here wasting your time (and yes that is what you're doing and even you know that), 30 years after being in a program?
I'm here because of the kids still stuck in the shitpits.
You really need to stop lying to yourself. Do you think arguing with me helps the kids "stuck in the shitpits"? Does arguing with any other person on fornits somehow help, or impact the lives of the so called "kids still stuck in the shitpits?" Of course not! You need to find yourself another answer to this question, and when you do you might learn a long needed lesson about who you really are.
I agree with suck it a lot of you ole timers as you put it are to focused on your pain to give a fuck about the kids. take a valume and get on with life.
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Tell ya what.....you keep thinking whatever you want about me and my life and I'll keep living it........K? :seg:
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Ah, yes.....my life of beach, boating, sun and fun is just horrible. ::) Mexico was AWESOME, by the way. :seg: :nods:
Because nothing says I'm secure with my life and who I am than attempting to impress random internet people with your so called great life. If your life at the beach, boating, sun and fun is so great, why are you here wasting your time (and yes that is what you're doing and even you know that), 30 years after being in a program?
I'm here because of the kids still stuck in the shitpits.
You really need to stop lying to yourself. Do you think arguing with me helps the kids "stuck in the shitpits"? Does arguing with any other person on fornits somehow help, or impact the lives of the so called "kids still stuck in the shitpits?" Of course not! You need to find yourself another answer to this question, and when you do you might learn a long needed lesson about who you really are.
I agree with suck it a lot of you ole timers as you put it are to focused on your pain to give a fuck about the kids. take a valume and get on with life.
Wow. Sounds like SUCK IT and RavingMad think they can really teach you a lot about life, Anne! I wonder what great advice they have to give the rest of us "old-timers!" :rofl:
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:rofl: :rofl:
I'm still trying to figure out what a "valume" is.
:seg2: :seg:
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Tell ya what.....you keep thinking whatever you want about me and my life and I'll keep living it........K? :seg:
:tup: :tup: :cheers:
Hey, btw, I'm glad you had a wonderful time in Mexico... Must have been great to get away!
I'm still trying to figure out what a "valume" is.
Hmm. Dunno... maybe a Valium of great volume?
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Tell ya what.....you keep thinking whatever you want about me and my life and I'll keep living it........K? :seg:
:tup: :tup: :cheers:
Hey, btw, I'm glad you had a wonderful time in Mexico... Must have been great to get away!
It really was. The island is hurting and the medical and school supplies and $$$$ were sorely needed. I really love the relationship and history that the cities have with each other. This was the 42nd year of the race. Strange year for the boats returning home though. They left in extremely windy conditions....one boat caught fire about 3 hours out - wind generator went nuts and sent an arc to the battery setting it on fire. They put it out and got a tow back to the island for repairs. Another got about 200 miles into the Gulf and lost the rudder, in heavy seas/winds. They set off the EPIRB, which really freaked everyone out. CG got 'em but the boat is adrift in the Gulf now, awaiting rescue from a tug.
The boat my husband is on decided to wait until Tuesday morning to leave, when the winds died down a bit. They're about 35 miles off Longboat Key right now and should be home by 10 12 tonight.
I'm still trying to figure out what a "valume" is.
Hmm. Dunno... maybe a Valium of great volume?
:roflmao: :roflmao:
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HA HA HA HA YOU ARE ONE SICK BITCH ANNIE NEVER FORGET THAT PICK ON MY SPELLING ALL THE SAME IT DOES NOT MATTER OR TAKE AWAY THAT YOU ARE A SICK BITCH PERIOD. :twofinger:
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HA HA HA HA YOU ARE ONE SICK BITCH ANNIE NEVER FORGET THAT PICK ON MY SPELLING ALL THE SAME IT DOES NOT MATTER OR TAKE AWAY THAT YOU ARE A SICK BITCH PERIOD. :twofinger:
So, you're still upset....right Little One?
:seg2:
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HA HA HA HA YOU ARE ONE SICK BITCH ANNIE NEVER FORGET THAT PICK ON MY SPELLING ALL THE SAME IT DOES NOT MATTER OR TAKE AWAY THAT YOU ARE A SICK BITCH PERIOD. :twofinger:
So, you're still upset....right Little One?
:seg2:
upset is not the word i would pick at all. all you ole timers are evil
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upset is not the word i would pick at all. all you ole timers are evil
:cry: :cry: :cry:
:rofl: :rofl:
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fuck stop making me smile please..roflmao
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This poll has been up for a while and only got 12 votes. That sounds about the number of people who regularly come to fornits and sign in. So that's 12 people out of the tens or possibly hundreds of thousands of kids who have been to some sort of behavioral treatment center during their lifetime. But lucky for us these 12 people have decided all programs are abusive and should be shut down, we should thank them for being so smart and decide what works for everybody else. It also should be noted that most posters here were in programs many years, or even decades ago, which is why their negative experiences don't apply to modern day programs.
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This poll has been up for a while and only got 12 votes. That sounds about the number of people who regularly come to fornits and sign in. So that's 12 people out of the tens or possibly hundreds of thousands of kids who have been to some sort of behavioral treatment center during their lifetime. But lucky for us these 12 people have decided all programs are abusive and should be shut down, we should thank them for being so smart and decide what works for everybody else. It also should be noted that most posters here were in programs many years, or even decades ago, which is why their negative experiences don't apply to modern day programs.
OMG! I just woke up here at the bathroom at the public library. I was covered in urine and vomit. I stubled from the bathroom and logged on to the public access computer here at the library only to find that my Maximillian-SUCKIT persona had emerged and said some really stupid things. I want to apolagize to everybody here for the absolute stupidity of my Maximillian-SUCKIT creation. Last night I was getting fucked up on some cheap wine and pills when I decided to troll a few AA meets. It was Friday night and I found many drunks ready to take their baptism of powerlessness. I went to chill out in the gutter behing the AA meeting because I had some smack I needed to hammer down. As I bumped the sweet opiate I saw a flash of bright light and I can't remember a thing until I woke up here.
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This poll has been up for a while and only got 12 votes. That sounds about the number of people who regularly come to fornits and sign in. So that's 12 people out of the tens or possibly hundreds of thousands of kids who have been to some sort of behavioral treatment center during their lifetime. But lucky for us these 12 people have decided all programs are abusive and should be shut down, we should thank them for being so smart and decide what works for everybody else. It also should be noted that most posters here were in programs many years, or even decades ago, which is why their negative experiences don't apply to modern day programs.
OMG! I just woke up here at the bathroom at the public library. I was covered in urine and vomit. I stubled from the bathroom and logged on to the public access computer here at the library only to find that my Maximillian-SUCKIT persona had emerged and said some really stupid things. I want to apolagize to everybody here for the absolute stupidity of my Maximillian-SUCKIT creation. Last night I was getting fucked up on some cheap wine and pills when I decided to troll a few AA meets. It was Friday night and I found many drunks ready to take their baptism of powerlessness. I went to chill out in the gutter behing the AA meeting because I had some smack I needed to hammer down. As I bumped the sweet opiate I saw a flash of bright light and I can't remember a thing until I woke up here.
GOOD TIMES!
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Remember kids, when Whooter uses a fake alias it's an unforgivable sin!
But when we do it, it's all in good fun!
Nope, no double standard here. Keep moving along, nothing to see here , folks.
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This poll has been up for a while and only got 12 votes. That sounds about the number of people who regularly come to fornits and sign in. So that's 12 people out of the tens or possibly hundreds of thousands of kids who have been to some sort of behavioral treatment center during their lifetime. But lucky for us these 12 people have decided all programs are abusive and should be shut down, we should thank them for being so smart and decide what works for everybody else. It also should be noted that most posters here were in programs many years, or even decades ago, which is why their negative experiences don't apply to modern day programs.
OMG! I just woke up here at the bathroom at the public library. I was covered in urine and vomit. I stubled from the bathroom and logged on to the public access computer here at the library only to find that my Maximillian-SUCKIT persona had emerged and said some really stupid things. I want to apolagize to everybody here for the absolute stupidity of my Maximillian-SUCKIT creation. Last night I was getting fucked up on some cheap wine and pills when I decided to troll a few AA meets. It was Friday night and I found many drunks ready to take their baptism of powerlessness. I went to chill out in the gutter behing the AA meeting because I had some smack I needed to hammer down. As I bumped the sweet opiate I saw a flash of bright light and I can't remember a thing until I woke up here.
GOOD TIMES!
:roflmao:
DannyB11, maybe if ya told yer alternate persona "Maxi-mal" to brush up on some rudimentary algebra, he might get more votes. There's a ten-year span missing outta his line-up of choices.
Then again, such a faux pax might have been sufficient to tip off most posters ... as to the relevance of the poll. Lol.
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Just like I said, the alternate fake identities are accepted, welcomed and considerately laughed at (even if its not funny) simply because they hold anti treatment views, and are attacking the approved targets, which of course is anybody harboring anything that could be perceived as pro treatment sympathies. This double standard on fornits is glaring to everybody but those part of the group think, hypocrisy is a integral part of the fornits mythology. This is why posters like our friend pedo bear here thinks it's funny when reading something as stupid as Danny's stalker posts, yet whines like a spurned child when someone like Whooter posts under another username.
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Just like I said, the alternate fake identities are accepted, welcomed and considerately laughed at (even if its not funny) simply because they hold anti treatment views, and are attacking the approved targets, which of course is anybody harboring anything that could be perceived as pro treatment sympathies. This double standard on fornits is glaring to everybody but those part of the group think, hypocrisy is a integral part of the fornits mythology. This is why posters like our friend pedo bear here thinks it's funny when reading something as stupid as Danny's stalker posts, yet whines like a spurned child when someone like Whooter posts under another username.
Thanks Max, I could not have said it better.
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3 of my uncles are all alcoholic, every night they make sure to have a drinking session along with their sons and friends.
However, one of them started to feel weak and becoming thinner, he even had some illness issue regarding his addiction. So, his family decided to inquire for an alcohol rehab programs (http://http://recoverynowtv.com/alcohol-rehab-programs) that could help him recover.
Thankfully after a year and 5 moths he came back clean and healthy as before.
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:suicide:
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Just like I said, the alternate fake identities are accepted, welcomed and considerately laughed at (even if its not funny) simply because they hold anti treatment views, and are attacking the approved targets, which of course is anybody harboring anything that could be perceived as pro treatment sympathies. This double standard on fornits is glaring to everybody but those part of the group think, hypocrisy is a integral part of the fornits mythology. This is why posters like our friend pedo bear here thinks it's funny when reading something as stupid as Danny's stalker posts, yet whines like a spurned child when someone like Whooter posts under another username.
Thanks Max, I could not have said it better.
The king of fake profiles could not have said it better.
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I hate fake profiles