Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Anne Bonney on March 17, 2010, 03:59:13 PM
-
http://www.heardrobins.com/PracticeArea ... -Abuse.asp (http://www.heardrobins.com/PracticeAreas/Wilderness-Camp-Abuse.asp)
Was Your Child the Victim of Abuse at Camp?
Only so many options exist for parents of troubled teens. One of them is rising in popularity: camps. A variety of camps exist to help teenagers overcome behavior problems or drug and alcohol addiction. These wilderness camps present themselves as therapy providers, and many parents turn to them expecting their child to return changed for the better.
Unfortunately, what these boot camps for troubled teens fail to mention is that frequently they are completely unregulated. There are no laws requiring them to be adequately staffed, to provide proper staff training, or to be effectively run. Unfortunately, this means that these places are frequently the sites of child abuse, serious personal injury or even wrongful death.
At Heard Robins Cloud & Black LLP in Houston, Texas, our attorneys are committed to holding these businesses accountable for their negligence.
We Want Child Abuse at Therapeutic Camps to Stop
The children that attend these camps are in a very vulnerable position. Not only are they essentially alone in the woods, many have been sent to the camp because of a history of poor behavior. This means that the staff will tend to place the blame back on the child for any abuse allegations that are made.
Our lawyers know how to sort through these matters. We know how to carefully research cases to present the truth. We can handle cases involving any type of child abuse, such as:
* Staff members refusing to provide a camper with food or water as punishment for bad behavior
* Staff members hiding medicine from kids, or simply failing to provide it when required
* Staff members directly assaulting children
Our Attorneys Can Handle Complex Cases
We specifically make a point of taking on cases that others may find too challenging or complex. Our attorneys know how to find open doors even when it seems like there are none. We know how to research and dig deep to build cases designed to get positive results.
When you turn to us, you will not only have a team dedicated to getting results on your side, you will have a lawyer who truly cares about you and your child. We want to help.
Free Consultations | Bilingual Services | No Fee Unless We Win
E-mail us or call us at 1.866.713.9743 to tell us about your wilderness camp child abuse case and find out what we can do to help.
-
http://www.greene-broillet.com/CM/Perso ... -Camps.asp (http://www.greene-broillet.com/CM/PersonalInjuryWrongfulDeath/Therapeutic-Wilderness-Camps.asp)
Abuse, Neglect of Teens in Residential Treatment Programs
When parents cannot control their teenaged children, they sometimes turn to boot camps, "tough love" camps or wilderness therapy camps for help. These residential programs can take advantage of the vulnerability of parents who want to help their children at any cost and the physical vulnerability of the young people in their care. Sometimes the children pay with their lives.
A Bad Report on Therapeutic Camps
Reports of physical, sexual and emotional abuse of young people in residential therapeutic camps are commonplace. During 2005 alone, 33 states reported 1,619 staff members were involved in incidents of abuse in residential treatment programs, according to a report by the Government Accounting Office.
The same document reported multiple cases of serious injuries and fatalities at boot camps and residential centers for youth.
The attorneys of Greene Broillet & Wheeler, LLP, have successfully represented clients whose children suffered serious injuries or wrongful death due to the negligence of those who own and operate therapy camps.
Results for the Injured and Their Families
One case involved the death of a young man at a camp in Texas. Another case involved a camp resident whose arm was severely burned by boiling hot grease.
We have found that many of these camps are ill-prepared to protect the health and safety of their residents. If your child suffered a serious injury — or worse — at a tough love camp or academy for troubled youth, please contact our law firm to discuss your case. We will aggressively pursue maximum compensation for damages.
Our lawyers represent clients in the Los Angeles area and throughout Southern California and the entire state. We also consult with attorneys and clients nationwid
-
http://health-healthresources.caremark. ... c/bootcamp (http://health-healthresources.caremark.com/topic/bootcamp)
Death Trip
Wilderness therapy programs claim they'll straighten out your troubled teen with tough love and survival training. Some kids never come back.
By Paige Bierma
CONSUMER HEALTH INTERACTIVE
The headline in the paper on that August 2001 morning made me recoil. Another young boy had died in a wilderness boot camp -- a victim, like many before him, of abuse at the hands of those in charge of helping him.
Tony Haynes, 14, drowned after employees at an unlicensed boot camp in Arizona, run by a group called America's Buffalo Soldiers, stuck him in a bathtub half-conscious and turned on the shower. They left Haynes unattended in the tub, even though the boy had been vomiting and delirious after being forced to stand in 115-degree desert heat as punishment for asking to go home. The Phoenix boy's tragic death -- and charges that other children were also abused by camp drill instructors -- were investigated. (Authorities shut the camp down briefly then allowed it to reopen. The camp's operator denied any wrongdoing. The camp continues to operate today. -- Editor)
To me, the story is all too familiar..............article continued at link above.
Further Resources
Youth Law Center
Children's Legal Protection Center
417 Montgomery Street, Suite 900
San Francisco, CA 94104
Phone: 415/543-3379
Fax: 415/956-9022
Email: info@cjcj.org (http://mailto:info@cjcj.org)
Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention (OJJDP)
810 Seventh Street, NW
Washington, DC 20531
Phone: 202/307-5911
Fax: 202/307-2093
Email: Askjj@ncjrs.org
Michelle Sutton Foundation
(run by Cathy Sutton, mother of one of first wilderness camp victims)
Phone: 209/599-4692
-
Personal injury law firms are not interested in keeping kids safe as, Anne Bonney, would try to lead you to believe with her posting of advertisements. These predators profit off the hardships of other people and their families. Their only interest is their majority % in a settlement. They could care less if the industry is better off this year than it was last year. They are not interested in any cause, they may be suing you next year if the price is right. Once they get paid they move on.
I picked one of Anne Bonneys "ambulance chaser" advertisements at random:
GB&W (http://http://www.greene-broillet.com/CM/VehicleAccidents/Bicycle-Accidents.asp)
The attorneys of Greene Broillet & Wheeler, LLP, are skilled trial lawyers with a well-established reputation for success in bicycle accident claims. We have the knowledge, determination and resources required to maximize results for our injured clients. lol
One hundred nine cyclists died in fatal traffic accidents in California during 2007, according to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. Many more suffered serious or disabling injuries from car-bike accidents.
Here is one recent case we are really proud of:
Doe v. Doe Restaurant: Settlement $4.5 million
Man fell into open fire pit on bar patio sustaining severe burn injuries.
It seems the bicycle industry is more abusive than Wilderness Camps!!! Lol Oh Wait your local pub is abusive too. If you drink too much and fall into the pit with the lobsters we will sue them too!!! You shouldn’t have to take responsibility for that. What was that pub thinking serving you alcohol? They need to be sued!!
(http://http://www.newyorkpersonalinjuryattorneyblog.com/uploaded_images/critical-mass-ambulance-779335.jpg)
...
-
Oooh, looks like there's blood in the water. The fact that these guys are certain they can prove abuse to juries (otherwise they wouldn't be going for it) spells major hurt for programmies. What's that? The culture of silence has been shattered, with kids going to authorities left and right over this evil shit? Whoops, looks like the whole paradigm of programmie indoctrination has been made untenable. Wonder how that happened?
But for a short time, evil fucks of all stripes can send their kid away to an Aspen shithole for a couple of years, then use the kid's abuse testimony to pocket the cash for themselves! Free money and a beaten-down kid- best of both worlds!
-
Where the Emptiness Is
by Aaron Bacon
In the brief time after a desert rain
When the clouds still cover the sun
And the rainbow can't be seen yet
When there is a dim grey tint to the world
And the earth is a cold damp rag
That soothes the pain and keeps it constant
It lets you relax and settle down
But slowly freezes you like the dead
A bullet in the chamber
The swift automatic cock of the hammer
And the violent reverse in direction.
The explosion on impact, and the fire out of the barrel
The sudden silence after a gun shot
And the smell of gun powder in the air
The slow motion of movement
The flight on an empty nine millimeter shell to the ground
The dropping of a head, and expression
When the clouds cover the city low and thick
And dance their dance of the death around the third floor
And the wind chills the tips of your toes
In the glimpse of a starry sky through the eye of the storm
When the void of montage of grey ghost
Cast a solemn light into the branches of a tree
During the formation of goose flesh over your body
And the rush from the chills on your arms
When the cirrus clouds drift through the liefeless air like spirits
When the phone rang at seven a.m.
Announcing the last of the cowboys was gone
Wyatt Earp had left his family
The hawk wouldn't be returning to his nest
And the wrangler had left the Rodeo
Later in the day and the following day
An empty dial tone
And no messages or corrections
In the fresh grave of a child.
-
But for a short time, evil fucks of all stripes can send their kid away to an Aspen shithole for a couple of years, then use the kid's abuse testimony to pocket the cash for themselves! Free money and a beaten-down kid- best of both worlds!
Great angle. I didnt think of that. This would reduce the financial risk. If the child graduates and doesnt do well the parents can listen to little johnny on how the program abused him and then sue. This will accomplish getting the parents money back and teaching the child that they should never have to take responsibility for their own actions. If they didnt do well in the program it must be someone elses fault right? ... so lets identify them and sue them...lol
As a backup we could all ride bicycles and hope for some road rage and then start suing the auto drivers! lol. That was classic.
The lesson here, to the kids, is if you screw up your life try to find someone else to blame, never take responsibility for your actions. Listen to that ambulance chaser and take his card.
...
-
I liked the part about bicycles, good resources Femanon. It appears other attorneys have been watching Phil Elberg and his successes in delivering some well needed justice to the survivors of programs like KHK of Joisey.
Times are a changing and for the better, I hope.
-
I liked the part about bicycles, good resources .....
Thanks, I just couldnt resist. The ambulance chasers have noticed that programs have become such a lucrative business that everyone wants a piece of the action now. But they are so few and far between and the economy is slow so they are chasing bicyclists until the next kid gets hurt in a program!! lol
I liked the drunk guy who fell into the lobster pit and sued the bar......
It was classic advertising. We should start a lawyer watch here on fornits to see how many of these firms try to rope in parents who had kids who didnt do well in programs.
...
-
Great angle. I didnt think of that. This would reduce the financial risk. If the child graduates and doesnt do well the parents can listen to little johnny on how the program abused him and then sue. This will accomplish getting the parents money back and teaching the child that they should never have to take responsibility for their own actions. If they didnt do well in the program it must be someone elses fault right? ... so lets identify them and sue them...lol...
Ok, well I have to ask, what's the other side to that coin Whooter? Would you rather be the parent of a child who justifiably (in your mind) or not chooses to seek damages or of a child who goes their whole life believing they deserve to be abused. What kind of lesson would you be teaching your child then? That abuse is justifiable? That victims don't deserve justice and perps shouldn't be held responsible for their crimes? Just let it go and let them carry on abusing more people right?
If your daughter was in an abusive relationship, possibly one that left her physically injured and in thousands of dollars in debt would you seriously encourage her not to seek an attorney to receive compensation for her hospital bills? Would you be calling all your single girlfriends and set them up on blind dates with this guy?... would you troll a spousal abuse forum too?
Again I must call you out on this.... what exactly makes you assume that everyone who speaks out and in this instance those who choose to sue are those who "didnt do well" in the program? I know many of the plantiffs of the Turley suit personally and a substancial amount of them either graduated or would be considered to have done well in the program. Consider this, I was sent to High Impact, I graduated High Impact, doesn't that make me a success? Well that doesn't change the fact that I suffered a great deal of physical and psychological torture at the hands of inept and quite malicious staff members. If the owners of such a program are not responsible for these abusive acts against hundreds of children then who is? and if no one is responsible then how do I move on with my life knowing that these people are probably out there abusing someone else as we speak? How could I live with myself if another child died and I did nothing to stop it?... In fact, how do you live with yourself knowing your mind state is exactly what has cost too many children their lives?
-
Personal injury law firms are not interested in keeping kids safe as, Anne Bonney, would try to lead you to believe with her posting of advertisements. These predators profit off the hardships of other people and their families. Their only interest is their majority % in a settlement. They could care less if the industry is better off this year than it was last year. They are not interested in any cause, they may be suing you next year if the price is right. Once they get paid they move on.
I picked one of Anne Bonneys "ambulance chaser" advertisements at random:
Spin it all you want. We all know law firms have a wide variety of clients. Some we like and agree with, some we don't. Doing 'ambulance chasing' helps them afford to be able to take on other deserving cases pro bono. We could also flip it around and look into the history and clientele of the firms who have defended numerous programs for countless lawsuits for the abuse of children.
Spin! Spin! Deflect! Distort! Dodge! Parry! SPIN!!
-
Where you digging all this stuff up from Annie?
Is this is a fairly recent trend?.. I haven't heard of lawyers taking such an interest in the industry since Mike's legal beagles took a largish poo on Benchmark. Them and Phil Elberg and Tom McGowan.
-
These predators profit off the hardships of other people and their families.
Whooter, since when did you object to companies that profit off the hardships of families? So you're against programs now? Such a two-faced twit.
Auntie Em
-
Where you digging all this stuff up from Annie?
Is this is a fairly recent trend?.. I haven't heard of lawyers taking such an interest in the industry since Mike's legal beagles took a largish poo on Benchmark. Them and Phil Elberg and Tom McGowan.
Stumbled across it yesterday. Googled 'wilderness therapy abuse' or 'wilderness camp abuse'..something like that, can't remember specifically. Every once in a while I'll just google different phrasings of the TTI and see what pops up.
-
These predators profit off the hardships of other people and their families.
^^Whooter FINALLY admits how PROGRAMS operate??^^ Took a few years, but I guess now Whooter agrees with people here that programs do in fact prey on desperate families.
This is a big step for Whooter. Now if he could just quit being an ignorant asshole... :rofl:
-
Personal injury law firms are not interested in keeping kids safe as, Anne Bonney, would try to lead you to believe with her posting of advertisements. These predators profit off the hardships of other people and their families. Their only interest is their majority % in a settlement. They could care less if the industry is better off this year than it was last year. They are not interested in any cause, they may be suing you next year if the price is right. Once they get paid they move on.
I picked one of Anne Bonneys "ambulance chaser" advertisements at random:
Spin it all you want. We all know law firms have a wide variety of clients. Some we like and agree with, some we don't. Doing 'ambulance chasing' helps them afford to be able to take on other deserving cases pro bono. We could also flip it around and look into the history and clientele of the firms who have defended numerous programs for countless lawsuits for the abuse of children.
Spin! Spin! Deflect! Distort! Dodge! Parry! SPIN!!
Just couldnt resist, Anne. I just enjoyed seeing how far out people here will reach to get a negative spin on the TTI. To justify your position based on these guys handing out their business cards to program parents was a new level and I couldnt let the opportunity pass without comment.
While I rely on studies you post advertisements for personal injury lawyers. These are the same guys who advertise on daytime TV like Jerry Springer. Their target audience are people who are on welfare looking to sue someone for easy money (Got drunk and fell into a lobster pit and trying to sue the bar owner). You never see them advertise during the PGA golf tournaments, or evening/business news.
No harm meant by it, it is what it is and it says alot about the information you rely on.
...
-
Just couldnt resist, Anne. I just enjoyed seeing how far out people here will reach to get a negative spin on the TTI. To justify your position based on these guys handing out their business cards to program parents was a new level and I couldnt let the opportunity pass without comment.
While I rely on studies you post advertisements for personal injury lawyers. These are the same guys who advertise on daytime TV like Jerry Springer. Their target audience are people who are on welfare looking to sue someone for easy money (Got drunk and fell into a lobster pit and trying to sue the bar owner). You never see them advertise during the PGA golf tournaments, or evening/business news.
No harm meant by it, it is what it is and it says alot about the information you rely on.
Whatever helps ya sleep at night dude. Wow...the guilt you feel must truly be overwhelming at times for you to go to the lengths you do to defend even the indefensible.
I just happened to run across it while Googling "Wilderness therapy abuse". I neither endorsed nor recommended them. I merely found it interesting that more firms are finally deciding to tackle these fraudulent "treatment" programs. But again.....spin spin spin away. Hope it eases the guilt for you.
-
a post in which she implied that Whooter is capable of feeling guilt
:roflmao: :feedtrolls:
-
So if you were a parent looking for advice and credible info about the industry and had to choose between the guy below (Michael Grayson) or and angry poster from fornits would a parent look to an angry poster from fornits or someone who has dedicated a good part of his life with children and families and has also worked within programs themselves and presently has a private practice? Is it a brainer or No brainer? lol
Do you think the angry fornits poster would be biased? Do you think The Licensed Psychologist is biased?
I know that the average fornits poster is not going to be swayed by any study or facts but we all have to admit that the emerging studies and professionals all point towards an overwhelming success rate which these wilderness and residential programs provide us.
Michael Grayson Conner, Psy.D
Licensed Psychologist
Clinical, Medical & Family Psychology
Board Certified
Emergency Crisis Response
School Crisis Response
Expert in Traumatic Stress
Residency & Clinical Psychology Fellowship completed
in Graduate Medical Education
Dr. Conner has provided and supervised crisis intervention services for nearly two thousand parents and professionals. He has worked in hospital, residential, primary medical care and health education settings. At one point in his career he worked simultaneously in law enforcement, community crisis intervention and emergency room psychiatry. These unique experiences allow Dr. Conner to understand the needs of adults, parents, families, adolescents, professionals and organizations facing the most challenging problems. Dr. Conner currently has a private practice working primarily with adults and families. He provides consultation and training for law enforcement and major airlines in the Pacific Northwest. Dr. Conner consults with parents and mental health professionals nationally.
Dr. Conner began pioneering research in the use of computers in personality assessment and training in 1989. This included the development and operation of computer based test interpretation and the associated ethical issues. He later developed developed a computer based mental health screening tool for primary medical care. This system accurately evaluated and recommended medications based on the thought processes of psychiatrists. Other projects included internet based screening questionnaires for adolescents who were at risk. In 1999 Dr. Conner began researching and developing an extensive data base on boarding schools, wilderness and adventure programs for youth and young adults. He has promoted emotional growth boarding schools and wilderness therapy treatment and is actively involved in helping the public to understand the difference between emotional growth, therapeutic, residential, adventure and wilderness therapy programs and boot camps. This research has allowed Dr. Conner to appreciate professional and consumer needs for intervention, program safety, the importance of follow-up programs as well as the importance of recognizing market trends.
Dr. Conner publishes articles, handouts and consumer protection materials on the internet and in monthly newspaper columns. In 2001 he received an award for "Professional and Public Service" from the American Mental Health Alliance. His handout on "Coping with Violent Traumatic Events in Communities" was adopted by the major health care networks in New York City and distributed throughout the city health care systems. He was interviewed by the New York Times, The Los Angeles Times, Parents Magazine, and several other east and west coast newspapers. His articles and research has been quoted in Money Magazine, Cosmopolitan Magazine and Better Homes & Gardens. Dr. Conner was a three time guest expert and consultant on Boot Camps, Wilderness and Boarding School programs for the Montel Williams Show - a nationally syndicated television program.
In 2002 Dr. Conner founded Psychware with the explicit purpose of developing an on-line evaluation tool for parents of children who might have behavioral and mental health problems. The goal was to bring screening and evaluation tools to parents via the internet. The goal was to provide education, information and appropriate guidance to parents who could not afford or access mental health care services. This included parents and care-givers with low income and people who lived in remote areas of the United States. A comprehensive screening and information web site was developed and made operational in January 2004.
...
-
What, does he not want to talk about the fact that he worked for Sagewalk anymore?
I wonder why?
I wonder if the pile of dead kids has something to do with that?
-
What, does he not want to talk about the fact that he worked for Sagewalk anymore?
I wonder why?
I wonder if the pile of dead kids has something to do with that?
He has worked in hospital, residential, primary medical care and health education settings.
Hmmmm. Doesnt seem to mention any of them specifically (by name). Doesnt mention any of the hospitals or residential programs or primary medical care or his educational settings......Do you think he is hiding from all of them? lol
...
-
This research has allowed Dr. Conner to appreciate professional and consumer needs for intervention, program safety, the importance of follow-up programs as well as the importance of recognizing market trends.
Yes, that's what matters when dealing with psychiatric problems. Market trends. Is it any wonder this guy got repeatedly shitcanned from his real jobs? Googling his name leads directly to a padded resume, on another cheesy site with a lot of broken links and a lot of scam bullshit.
And he got on Montel and whored himself there? (Note: Montel has since recanted support of programs) He's a bag of shit, another worthless ed-con in a sea of them.
The fact that you're spamming the place up with this worthless garbage is a real sign of desperation. What? Parents now have a shitload of resources to sue programs with, and lawyers chomping at the bit for their share of cash? Oh holy CRAP, we can't let the Fornits people talk about THAT, better post this other bullshit, maybe it'll derail this conversation too...
Parents: A whole lot of lawyers are convinced that your kid's abuse is not only real, it's provable in court. Feel free to use their services.
-
The fact that you're spamming the place up with this worthless garbage is a real sign of desperation. What? Parents now have a shitload of resources to sue programs with, and lawyers chomping at the bit for their share of cash? Oh holy CRAP, we can't let the Fornits people talk about THAT, better post this other bullshit, maybe it'll derail this conversation too...
Spamming, Huh? Why does this guys' credentials and background bother you so much? If you feel you are in a position to dispute what he says then what is your background? lol Where are your facts that say he isnt qualified to an opinion on about the industry.
The majority of the professionals know that at-risk children are being helped by residential treatment. Again, are people going to believe someone on the web named "Pile of dead kids" or :
Michael Grayson Conner, Psy.D
Licensed Psychologist
Clinical, Medical & Family Psychology
Give it some thought. I think the reality will come to you.
...
-
Oh wow. Appeal to authority in full force now, with someone that doesn't even have much of it. Strange how you never recognize real authority, like, oh... the Government Accountability Office. But that would royally screw up your narrative, now wouldn't it?
I'll have to go call Sergey's mother up now. I'm sure she'll be positively delighted to know that her son's Sagewalk murderers had so many wonderful qualifications. And maybe I'll call up Brendan Blum's mom too, tell her that the the sheer weight of this guy's college will resurrect her son right out of his grave.
-
Oh wow. Appeal to authority in full force now, with someone that doesn't even have much of it. Strange how you never recognize real authority, like, oh... the Government Accountability Office. But that would royally screw up your narrative, now wouldn't it?
I'll have to go call Sergey's mother up now. I'm sure she'll be positively delighted to know that her son's Sagewalk murderers had so many wonderful qualifications. And maybe I'll call up Brendan Blum's mom too, tell her that the the sheer weight of this guy's college will resurrect her son right out of his grave.
Ha,Ha,Ha saw that coming (But you didnt post your credentials, maybe you forgot)..... maybe we should tell everyone about Columbine and all the people killed and try to shut down the public school system. Oh No!!! you didnt know? someone was abused or killed in our public school system? I wonder if more kids are abused and killed in the public school system then in programs. What would we do? That would rattle your world.....Would we advocate for programs and start telling parents to take their kids out of school and send them to programs? Would you rely on facts?
Think about it and if you disagree thats cool. But this guy posted his background, credentials and opinions:
Michael Grayson Conner, Psy.D
Licensed Psychologist
Clinical, Medical & Family Psychology
You are named "A pile of dead kids" Which post would you believe? lol
...
-
That's right! Keep hiding behind that ed-con's resume as if it means anything at all! Forget the fact that all the lawyers in this topic are, in fact, lawyers who passed the bar exam and are currently in professional practice. Never mind the GAO, whose members are immensely qualified and directly supported by Congress. And then there's the combined qualifications of the Oregon employees who shut MBA down for child abuse. Oh, and the law enforcement experience of the people who shut down Sagewalk. No, I guarantee you definitely don't want to talk about those.
Take a shithead, give him a diploma, and get a shithead with a diploma. It didn't help him much, Whooter. And it's definitely not helping you.
-
That's right! Keep hiding behind that ed-con's resume as if it means anything at all! Forget the fact that all the lawyers in this topic are, in fact, lawyers who passed the bar exam and are currently in professional practice.
So are the lawyers that protect the programs. They work on both sides. But they could care less about the kids.. come on Pile, you should know this!
Never mind the GAO, whose members are immensely qualified and directly supported by Congress.
They never disputed the fact that programs are valuable and help many kids. They just pointed out abuses that occurred and feel they should be regulated (Translation… we the government would like to get a piece of the action) and reduce the chance of further abuse. Where did they say the industry should be shut down? or is ineffective?
And then there's the combined qualifications of the Oregon employees who shut MBA down for child abuse. Oh, and the law enforcement experience of the people who shut down Sagewalk. No, I guarantee you definitely don't want to talk about those.
So we have between 300 and 500 programs in operation and you quote MBA which shut by its own decision and sagewalk which was shut down? So we have 498 other programs doing well. Oh, by the way, Columbine is still open. No one shut that place down!! Hmmmm. Wonder why? How about the teachers who rape their students in the public school system? I guess public schools are safe.
Take a shithead, give him a diploma, and get a shithead with a diploma. It didn't help him much, Whooter. And it's definitely not helping you.
Well I asked you “Pile of dead kids” for your qualifications that you use to argue against :
Michael Grayson Conner, Psy.D
Licensed Psychologist
Clinical, Medical & Family Psychology
And I guess we got your answer. You are definitely not a shithead with a diploma like the rest of us. Wouldn’t that be just awful if that happened to you. Thank you for answering the question in a round about way.
...
-
Of course they don't care, they're lawyers. If they *did* care, they'd take cases they didn't think they could win with. They're taking as many cases as they can, openly advertising for such. Ergo, they think, based on a purely greed perspective, that they can win in court. Ergo- this might break your mind if you think about it too hard Whooter, don't strain yourself- lots and lots of child abuse that occurred in programs is provable in court.
Well I'll ask you “Whooter” for your qualifications that you use to argue against :
Dr. Josef Mengele
Doctor of Anthropology
Doctor of Medicine
Iron Cross First Class
I know your qualifications don't come anywhere near close to this. Do YOU have two doctorates and a high military medal? No? Then who are you to question him?
-
That's right! Keep hiding behind that ed-con's resume as if it means anything at all! Forget the fact that all the lawyers in this topic are, in fact, lawyers who passed the bar exam and are currently in professional practice.
So are the lawyers that protect the programs. They work on both sides. But they could care less about the kids.. come on Pile, you should know this!
Some lawyers do care. Phil Elberg cares, as do my attorneys.
-
Pile of Dead Kids wrote:
Dr. Josef Mengele
Doctor of Anthropology
Doctor of Medicine
Iron Cross First Class
:roflmao:
-
Well I'll ask you “Whooter” for your qualifications that you use to argue against :
Dr. Josef Mengele
Doctor of Anthropology
Doctor of Medicine
Iron Cross First Class
I know your qualifications don't come anywhere near close to this. Do YOU have two doctorates and a high military medal? No? Then who are you to question him?
Dr. Josef Mengele !!!
If he were speaking about anthropology or his field of medicine I could not step up and challenge his expertise because I don’t have a background in that area, Pile. I don’t think you or many of the readers her could either.
If you are referring to how he used his expertise for evil purposes then it shows that evil has no class system (or boundaries) and can occur in complete cross-sections from maintenance people to presidents. Look at Hitler himself!! He was no better. Which relates right back to a former post stating that Horst Köhler isn’t necessarily evil just because he attained the same position as Hitler did. Each person can utilize their powers however they choose to. Not all people with a background in anthropology are evil. Not all program directors, presidents, educational consultants, doctors, teachers, fornits posters etc. are evil. But we have all seen that some can be. Every person is different and the job they attain "does not" define them, their actions define their job.
I have been posting and reading here a long time and I think where people get off track here is when they assume that just because they had a staff person who was evil then it is acceptable to conclude that all staff people are that way. I see this everyday here on fornits where survivors have a hard time seeing that their personal experience just isn’t the same as the next guy who progressed thru a program. They may have had better staff people or connected better in their program. But Life just isn’t that simple to assume everyone/everything is the same.
But on a softer note I do agree with many here and think the reference to Mengele is funny as it relates back to my original analogy of prewar Germany.
...
-
Well I'll ask you “Whooter” for your qualifications that you use to argue against :
Dr. Josef Mengele
Doctor of Anthropology
Doctor of Medicine
Iron Cross First Class
I know your qualifications don't come anywhere near close to this. Do YOU have two doctorates and a high military medal? No? Then who are you to question him?
Dr. Josef Mengele !!!
If he were speaking about anthropology or his field of medicine I could not step up and challenge his expertise because I don’t have a background in that area, Pile. I don’t think you or many of the readers her could either.
If you are referring to how he used his expertise for evil purposes then it shows that evil has no class system (or boundaries) and can occur in complete cross-sections from maintenance people to presidents. Look at Hitler himself!! He was no better. Which relates right back to a former post stating that Horst Köhler isn’t necessarily evil just because he attained the same position as Hitler did. Each person can utilize their powers however they choose to. Not all people with a background in anthropology are evil. Not all program directors, presidents, educational consultants, doctors, teachers, fornits posters etc. are evil. But we have all seen that some can be. Every person is different and the job they attain "does not" define them, their actions define their job.
I have been posting and reading here a long time and I think where people get off track here is when they assume that just because they had a staff person who was evil then it is acceptable to conclude that all staff people are that way. I see this everyday here on fornits where survivors have a hard time seeing that their personal experience just isn’t the same as the next guy who progressed thru a program. They may have had better staff people or connected better in their program. But Life just isn’t that simple to assume everyone/everything is the same.
But on a softer note I do agree with many here and think the reference to Mengele is funny as it relates back to my original analogy of prewar Germany.
...
It doesn't matter if the staff was evil or good if they aren't qualified to be working with special needs kids then it is the program directors who need to be held responsible for cutting such corners. Cold hard facts here, NONE and I mean NONE of the staff at the school I went to were even closely qualified for the position they filled, not a goddamn one. This is the problem here, you assume we are bitching and moaning about all this because were butt-hurt about a specific event, wrong! We are addressing a multitude of widespread and significant problems within a majority of these programs, one of which is that they do not have appropriate hiring and training standards for the staff they employ.
Whooter, do you ever listen to a word I say? It seems as if, despite your countless years here on fornits that you are incapable of grasping this very specific concept... These programs do not adequately self regulate and this means that methods and polices employed by these programs tend to not only become unethical, dangerous, irresponsible and suspecious but they have too many times lead to corruption, abuse and even death. I know you are a program supporter and this concept is easy to evade due to your loyalties, but just for a second can you consider that all we want is for kids to be safe in programs?... we're not out here whining for sympathy we are calling for the changes that are so direly needed! People like you who are connected to the industry should be glad we are here giving the programs feedback, and if the program directors and NATSAP dooshbags didn't have their heads so far up their asses maybe this information could help them develop a better system... But noooooo were all just liars and exaggerators right?
-
It doesn't matter if the staff was evil or good if they aren't qualified to be working with special needs kids then it is the program directors who need to be held responsible for cutting such corners. Cold hard facts here, NONE and I mean NONE of the staff at the school I went to were even closely qualified for the position they filled, not a goddamn one. This is the problem here, you assume we are bitching and moaning about all this because were butt-hurt about a specific event, wrong! We are addressing a multitude of widespread and significant problems within a majority of these programs, one of which is that they do not have appropriate hiring and training standards for the staff they employ.
I agree here with you 100%. Anyone who reads my posts know I would back any bill which would better protect the children from better hiring practices to better screening of children prior to admittance.
Whooter, do you ever listen to a word I say? It seems as if, despite your countless years here on fornits that you are incapable of grasping this very specific concept... These programs do not adequately self regulate and this means that methods and polices employed by these programs tend to not only become unethical, dangerous, irresponsible and suspecious but they have too many times lead to corruption, abuse and even death. I know you are a program supporter and this concept is easy to evade due to your loyalties, but just for a second can you consider that all we want is for kids to be safe in programs?... we're not out here whining for sympathy we are calling for the changes that are so direly needed!
I advocate here for increased safety for the kids. Denying children access to the help they need isn’t going to make them any safer (as many here try to do). We need to identify the problems and address them not try to paint a false picture and deceive parents by saying that all programs are the same or no children are helped by the industry. We all know this isn’t true.
People like you who are connected to the industry should be glad we are here giving the programs feedback, and if the program directors and NATSAP dooshbags didn't have their heads so far up their asses maybe this information could help them develop a better system... But noooooo were all just liars and exaggerators right?
First of all, I know people believe I am connected to the industry, but I am not. But lets move on from that:
The information is great and that is what everyone needs. Lets get the word out!! Lets pass new laws that will make these places safer!! But lets just be honest about it. We should not call people who had a different experience “Brain washed” or try to convince readers that every program is abusive or ineffective. It just smacks of ignorance, I know you must know this whether you want to admit it or not. Any first time reader knows this. We all know that thousands of kids graduate from programs every year and a small handful get hurt. Lets try to reduce that to zero. I am all for that. But lets just be honest about our intentions.
Are posters here really concerned about getting these kids the help they need or are they more concerned about getting even with the program that didn’t treat them well and just bad mouth the industry?
Read here on fornits and determine for yourself how many posters are willing to work towards change and improvement. How many are for taking steps that will add value and keep the children safe, like I do? How many survivors here on fornits are here to just dump their hatred and push their personal story and agenda?
The only ones really willing to help these kids are the program parents. They draft up and introduce bills and speak to the GAO and try to get policies changed. But they are not trying to block access to other children getting help like many fornits posters do thru deception. Why is that?
...
-
One sense I get is that the government has been supporting these programs for so long and since it says there's abuse, well by golly, now the lawyers have a credible source and more business than they can shake a stick at. No wonder they support HR911!!! :bs: Like a battlefield of sorts, put down a land mine, someone will step on it. HEY, THAT KID JUST GOT HURT/KILLED!!! SUE SUE SUE!!! $$$$$$$$$$$... yeah, they can thank us for that, but they never will. :twofinger: those lawyer types using the Fed pool!!!