Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Anonymous on September 12, 2003, 01:56:00 AM
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What exactly is "against their will" when it comes to stopping the damaging behaviors of a troubled teen? Their "will" is focused on their friends, drugs, sex, internet addiction, dropping out of school... What would be "an agreement to attend" entail?
Some States see that if someone, not just a teen, is a danger to themselves or others, then someone makes that decision for them. Do they go into any program admitting they need help? Most don't. That's why a short term program won't work for them. They need the time to change their behavior because they want to. For a lot of people, not just teens, that takes a while.
Good for the kids that do see they need help. Most others don't know how to ask other than act out in "please help me" behaviors. What do you think ignoring those signs and not getting help outside the home because you've had to learn it the hard way is telling your child? It's your job as a parent to do whatever it takes to make sure your child doesn't damage their future. Make it easy, no, learn their lessons for them, no. But don't blame the kids for their behavior - parents need help at the same time.
Just letting your children do what they want, without guidance, discipline or consequences is not showing love, it's showing selfishness in the worst way. Do you think your kid is going to thank you someday?
If you find a results based behavior change program that offers help for the parents too, your kids will thank you if you're committed to go the distance to take a stand for both your life and theirs.
On the other hand, if you are into fear tactics, stories of abuse, beatings, starvation, separation anxiety, that's your choice.
Aren't our kids required to go to school 5 days a week against their will until they're 16? What else do they do against their will that we as parents need to enforce?
Against their will? Gotta love that one!
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Exuse me? Gotta love that One?
Its very much not a funny thing that theres kids being held against there will being abused in the name of treatment. You think that over, Your program talk means jack sh88.
I dont know where the hel you come from,
But IT IS NOT OKAY TO ILLEGALLY INCARCERATE KIDS AGAINST THERE WILL AND MAKE THEM HAVE NO CHOICE TO GO ALONG WITH SOME BRAINWASHING METHODS.
YOU MAKE ME SICK (LITERALLY)
THE FACT YOUR GONNA SIT BEHIND A MONITOR AND TYPE SUCH A THING DISCUSTS ME WHILE THERES KIDS BEING BEAT INTO SUBMISSION. TAKE YOUR PROGRAM BULL SH88 BACK TO WHERE YOU CAME FROM YOU SUPPORTIVE ABUSIVE SLIME BAG.
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I suggest you read this http://www.isaccorp.com/tbj/tranquilityreport.doc (http://www.isaccorp.com/tbj/tranquilityreport.doc)
This is why we are fighting to protect the rights of teens and why the current situation is vastly inadaquate.
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Anon. FYI I took a stand on behalf of my child. It was the most difficult thing to do. Most of us parents did the same thing. Because we love and are sseking treatment to assist with our children destructive behaviors.That goes without saying.
The problem is not (in my opinion) the need to get help, the problem is the help WWASP provides. They lie, manipulate and harm the children. They use humiliation(not love),threates,corecion(not love).
Deprivation of food(not love),physical violence,restraint, sexual violence(not love).
Come to the party.You are still in la la land in believing the wwasp program helps the kids.
Maybe some kids are helped. Not really.
The ones that have been psychologicaly
harmed,physically harmed is inexcuseable.There are many.
I have spoken with many kids since are WWASP experience.Kids who have gone to different boarding schools.They are happy, healthy. Of course they did not like the idea they were at their school against their will. But the fact is they were not abused in any way. No sexual predators at their school.
They spoke with their parents weekly with real doctors assisting.Progress was made.
None of this months and months and months before an opportunity to speak with your child.(Progarm guidelines).
The truth about WWASP makes me sick. Literally.
It would make you sick too if you heard what was being told.
Nothing you can say can deter me from what I know and experienced with in the WWASP Program.
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Anon..
Please share with us the "results based " program facts about the kids who left the WWASP Program to go on to "Havard and Standford."
One of you WWASP admissions market experts shared that fact with me recently.
The speel was the same speel Lisa Irvin spew forth three years ago. The lies are endless.
You Teen Help/WWASP folks are unbelievable in your lying expertise.
Where's the INTEGRITY, ACCOUNTABILITY.
Where's Bill Dean now?
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Oh for goodness sake. Show me the perfect person - is it you?
If your child is endangering themselves or others then you ought to be able to get a Judge to agree with you that they need help...problem is that the teen helpers will take anyone that can pay and seem to spend more time/money on marketing than anything else.
When you pay parents ALOT to refer to your facility you are going to get referrals based on $$ not on need. Does your doctor get a referral fee to send you to a counsler?
What diagnosis is there that abuse/neglect is the prescription?
Parents are victimized too-yet when the truth is known how will they react? Do they support and defend their children or their new found friends/religion?
How would it feel to be abused and then have your parents tell you you're lying? What gift is that for your child.
Respect begets respect. What kind of parenting have these kids been taught is okay? Will they subconsiously resort to what has been done to them when they cannot reason with their 3 year old?
What kind of organization puts a warranty on children?
Children are not a commodity they are a gift. The really brave thing to do is to gut it out - like your parents probably did.
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you said....But don't blame the kids for their behavior - parents need help at the same time.
so why don't you try checking yourself in first.
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Well, that's an interesting theory *except* that "danger to themselves or others" has a *specific* meaning in law----which is that the person has threatened suicide in the last 48 hours or has made specific, credible threats of violence against other people.
It doesn't just mean having a few personally self-destructive habits.
You can't, for example, legally commit a drinking alcoholic for being a drinking alcoholic.
*IF* restrictive boarding schools were required by law to follow the *same* standards for involuntary commitment as state mental institutions, I don't think people would be nearly as upset with them.
They also wouldn't be nearly as upset with them if they were actually *helping* their victims, instead of merely inducing Stockholm Syndrome and Atypical Dissociative Disorder in them which *looks* superficially as though they've been "helped"----until the PTSD kicks in, or the Stockholm Syndrome wears off, or the phobias present clinically, or until the patient starts shifting between the original personality and the superficially imposed dissociated personality created by the half-assed use of mind control techniques by pseudo-shrinks who don't realize they're working *way* beyond their level of knowledge and competency.
Of course, by then the victim is legally adult and the parent doesn't have a lot of recourse. And the victim is busy straightening his/her own head out and recovering from the psychological damage *required* to create the illusion of help using mind control techniques, along with any other incidental psychiatric problems caused by the details of his/her individual encounter with this quackery.
Rule of thumb----if a program practices withholding the mail of the inmates/students/patients *except* on a case by case basis decided by a licensed psychiatrist with a specific doctor/patient relationship with the teen, for a very limited time, for patients with serious psychiatric problems who are actively suicidal or actively threatening violence---if it practices withholding mail as a matter of *policy*---it is not "helping" anyone. It is inducing Stockholm Syndrome and using mind control techniques (usually ham-handedly in ways that are apt to produce psychiatric casualties) to produce a temporary and transient *illusion* of having helped.
I hope you aren't an employee in any kind of counseling position in one of these programs. If you are, your obvious woeful ignorance of the human mind presents an active danger to anyone you "counsel" as part of these programs and I urge you to intensively study mind control and post-cult recovery to develop an understanding of how you are harming your patients and why you should stop.
There *are* proper ways to help troubled teens. None of them involve inducing Stockholm Syndrome and Atypical Dissociative Disorder, and all of them take a lot more individualized care and have a higher *real* (anything's higher than active harm, even benign neglect---and *good* practices are much better than benign neglect) and significantly lower *superficial* success rate.
Stockholm Syndrome and Atypical Dissociative Disorder aren't "help". The *only* reason for routine isolation from one's mail as *policy* is to induce Stockholm Syndrome.
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There is a significant difference between
*compulsory education and 24/7 incarceration- compulsory education controversial itself.
*parents guiding and disciplining vs hiring others to abuse under the guise of therapy.
*having daily physical contact with your child vs having to ?earn the right?.
*court ordered incarceration vs parental incarceration- a very different message.
Here?s a fun scenario to entertain:
You?re having your morning coffee, chatting with a friend and arranging to meet the girls for lunch over at the club, when in bursts 2 brutes and haul you away. They assure you that the hand cuffs, mace, and duck tape won?t be used unless you make it necessary. Hubby meets you at the door, give you a peck on the cheek, and says he?s sorry, but it?s for your own good. As you later discover, hubby is fed up with your lazy, oppositional, lying, manipulating extravagant ass. He claims that YOU are the problem. He is desperate and has had you incarcerated in the Stepford Better Wife Program without the benefit of due process.
Taking a bit of ?responsibility?, he will take the Better Husband Seminars so he can better keep you in line if/when the time comes that you?ve proven you can be the cooperative wife he expects you to be.
While incarcerated one might think that she would participate in home ec type courses- How to starch and iron his shirts, How to cook a gourmet meal in 20 minutes on a budget, How to be a thrifty shopper, How to satisfy your man?s needs?.. Unfortunately, the Stepford Better Wives Program is not about learning skills, learning how to communicate, negotiate, and compromise. No, it is designed to ensure that you will learn and accept your limited role and say in decisions that affect your life.
You will not be allowed to speak to other wives or do simple things like look out the window. Every moment will be focused on YOU becoming a better wife. No more coffee and chocolate, or shopping sprees at the mall. No more romance novels either, only back issues of Better Homes and Gardens. You?ll be allowed a quick shower once a week and may or may not have access to feminine hygiene products- that is if you still menstruate. You will have no contact with the outside world- particularly to attorneys or human rights organizations. No, you?re stuck. Instead your days will fall into monotonous routine of journaling what a terrible wife you have been, what you did to get yourself incarcerated, ways you could improve and viewing selected Better Wife videos and reruns of Leave it to Beaver, The Brady Bunch, and Father Knows Best. There will be daily sermons from the Book of Paul on how women can be subject to their men in 2003- should be very informative. No more gourmet meals at your favorite restaurant. No, for how ever long it takes for you to ?get it?, to ?work the program?, you will be earning the privilege of adequate nutrition. No more tennis lessons from the hunk at the club. No more tanning booths and acrylic nails. In fact, acrylic nails are viewed as weapons and will be ripped off one by one. SBWP aims to put you back in touch with what?s really important. Back to the basics, as it were.
Inmates of the SBWP should expect to endure some physical pain, as that seems to be the "only way that some women can get it?. Expect to lie in the same position for hours, days on end- Not anything like the yoga class you took at the club. It is a consequence for your transgressions. If you crack and lash out, someone will be there to restrain you, protecting you and others from your ?inappropriate? reaction to your ?treatment?.
While incarcerated in the SBWP, hubby and Jr will be living it up and writing to tell you of their trips to exotic destinations. Hubby can afford this now that he isn?t paying your outrageous credit card bills, plus he signed up 4 new hubbies to ship their wives off too. Free of your nagging, expensive ass, he has the time and money to enjoy himself again.
Staff will see to it that you are unable to report inhumane treatment. Hubby will be told to ignore your complaints- just more of your whining, manipulative lying, which could worsen around PMS.
Don?t be alarmed- in time you will learn that this is ?in your best interest?, ?for your own good?. Very early on you will ?get it? that your attempts to expose the truth will fall on deaf ears. May as well surrender to the program. After all, you really don?t have any other option, do you?
Absurd? Yeh, and some view the incarceration of teens in abusive programs as equally absurd.
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Deborah,
I read your senario. I do see one aspect that you did not address. Parents are responsible for the actions of their teens. If a teen causes harm to another individual by say, crashing their car, while driving drunk, into that of anothers, then the parents can be held liable. Parents should have the right to seek help for their children, without their consent if necessary.
I am not implying that abuse is ok. Never is abuse or neglect ok!
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That was from me.
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Against Their Will - I 100% agree with getting help - WWASPS and other programs are the most effective, long term way to get this. You talk about abuse? Can't go along with that. The kids abuse themselves, sometimes physically with drugs, cutting, alcohol, unprotected sex. Other times they abuse themselves psychologically by manipulating their parents, peer pressure, not accepting discipline from parents, calling the cops because they know mommy and daddy will get their own form of discipline if they say they were being hit or abused - and no that's not just a wwasps term! I hear it from teachers and counselors too!
I hear a lot of accusations - but where are the facts? This board is saturated with accusations to steer parents away from real help. Go figure...nothing new. No program is perfect, no staff person is perfect. No parent is perfect.
If a kid is hurt, then hold someone accountable. If the kid made the stories up to come home, and THEY ALL DO TRY, then quit blaming the program and deal with the afterburn yourselves.
What I see is the same ol stories that have nothing to back it up but words. It sounds like the PURE people at it again...or not...but the same M.O. Turn your obessions to the juvenile justice system or the inadequate school systems that DO HARM our kids.
Deborah - your scenario is a joke. You had separation anxiety in whatever program your son was in - which you still have chosen not to share, by the way.
Against their will - go house break a puppy! Maybe if you pet it enough and calmly say no puppy,don't poop in the house, it will 'get it'- now that's funny!
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*If a teen causes harm to another individual by say, crashing their car, while driving drunk, into that of anothers, then the parents can be held liable. Parents should have the right to seek help for their children, without their consent if necessary.
If the teen has a known drinking problem, then why does he have access to a car? Yes, the parent is and should be financially accoutable, teens rarely have income. But they can get a job and repay the parent for any damages that occured. Having a job may also give them less time to be bored stiff and finding ways to aleviate their boredom. I think requiring the teen to take responsibility in that way, might fall in the catagory of "help". A direct consequence of an action or behavior. Shipping them off does not teach that lesson. It's all in how you define "help".
Teens need to learn the realities of the world and their place in a social group. They can't do that while incarcerated and isolated from the world.
Deborah
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Deborah - you have all the answers. Are you teaching Parenting 101? What are those little ones you care for doing while you're on the computer all day? Maybe they're not old enough to talk yet? That's safe, don't care for someone else's child that can talk and get a burr up their butt and say you abused them or didn't feed them their afternoon cookie.
I would love to be around if you follow through with your talk of opening a program for troubled teens and then you get accused of what you are agreeing with on this board. :rofl: :wink:
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But they can get a job and repay the parent for any damages that occured.
Deborah, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink. You can tell a teen he has to work to pay for the damage, but who is going to hire them if they are defiant and not willing?
If the teen has a known drinking problem, then why does he have access to a car?
Deborah, it is called stealing. Have you ever heard of it? It actually happens.
Quit thinking so simplistically and start thinking realistically. We all would love for our kids to take responsibilty, but that is the problem, they don't.
Shipping them off does not teach that lesson. It's all in how you define "help".
Personally, I don't agree with shipping them off. I think the parents who ship them off should be held just as accountable as those with whom they have been shipped off too, if abuse occurs. I think the parents should be considered neglectful and charged accordingly. Ultimately the parents are responsible for the well being of their child. It would be like charging the John who pays for sex along with the prostitute who provides the service.
[ This Message was edited by: Carey on 2003-09-12 10:41 ]
[ This Message was edited by: Carey on 2003-09-12 10:43 ]
[ This Message was edited by: Carey on 2003-09-12 10:47 ]
[ This Message was edited by: Carey on 2003-09-12 10:51 ]
[ This Message was edited by: Carey on 2003-09-12 10:55 ]
[ This Message was edited by: Carey on 2003-09-12 11:05 ]
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how does a total control enviroment and not being able to cross your legs, look out the window or pee by yourself prepare you for the big bad world? Is that their purpose or is it to prepare you to chew on whatever the program feeds you until you get a "vision" to grow the program and/or become an employee because after all this is not only good for teen Johnny it is good for the whole world and should be in public schools etc. according to Gilcrease and all his magical child followers
does is seem to you WWASPers that the whole world is against you and the groups efforts are misunderstood...damn- if you could just get them to a seminar! I'ts gotta be tough when you are trying to save the world...review cult behavior
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:idea:
my suggestion to parents that would do "anything" to save their child is to give up your life for a few months and go with your troubled kid to a foreign land that could use your help...sweat and work side by side giving your life away for a while- bet you'll BOTH be changed and your child will have renewed respect for you and your committment to them and the world. Imagine what a difference these families could make and it would still be you in charge of your child.
anybody tried anything like that?
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Teen Help activities touched off investigations by law enforcement or regulatory agencies in several states -- including Utah, South Carolina and Ohio -- and three foreign countries -- Mexico, the Czech Republic and Western Samoa. Facilities in Utah, Mexico and the Czech Republic were closed,
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Carey, if you keep your only car keys on your person and your kid still manages to steal the car, it is obvious that it has been stolen and you as a parent are *not* liable for the damage because you did not *allow* the child to have the car. You weren't *negligent*----any and all liability rests on negligence. No negligence means no liability. No court is going to find that merely not shipping your kid off to private reform school constitutes negligence---unless you disobey a court order to put him/her in something or other.
And you can then file a police report and have your kid *prosecuted* for stealing the car and incarcerated by the state in a prison----which is much more humane and less damaging because at least prison *admits* to being a hostile place, doesn't demand to be able to dig around in your mind, and doesn't hire unqualified pseudo-shrinks to do the digging. Oh, and prisons don't stop you from writing letters to and receiving letters from your friends. And prisons have oversight to guarantee that you get minimally nutritionally adequate meals.
If it's a choice between your kid going in a "program" that stops his/her mail as a matter of routine (not by a licensed psychiatrist with dr/patient relationship, deciding *individually* under the ordinary legal and ethical strictures), and your kid hanging around and *maybe* going to jail if he screws up badly enough and breaks the laws-----pick jail. It's safer.
When I was a teen, the kids whose parents thought they were little angels were into a whole lot of stuff, and the kids whose parents thought they were into *everything* were frequently wrong and fruitloops to boot. The kid's peers usually were the ones who had an *accurate* read on what the kid was and was not into.
What I see is far too many ditzy fruitloop control freaks with more dollars than sense committing their kids for woefully insufficient reasons.
I want the laws changed. It should require a court order to commit a kid to a restrictive boarding school treatment center, and based on exactly the same criteria for involuntary commitment of an adult. Parental "consent" on behalf of the child should be insufficient---too high a percentage of these parents are fruitloops. All restrictive boarding schools should be required to be licensed as treatment centers and should be required to maintain the same patient files as any other mental institution that accepts involuntary commitments.
*Nobody* but the government should have the authority to place any individual in a residential penal institution (outside the home :smile:, and is not actually a mental hospital, it should be flatly illegal.
And I'm pretty darned confident that someday it will be.
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Carey, if you keep your only car keys on your person and your kid still manages to steal the car, it is obvious that it has been stolen and you as a parent are *not* liable for the damage because you did not *allow* the child to have the car. You weren't *negligent*----any and all liability rests on negligence.
I don't know what state you are living in, but in mine, Lousisiana, the parent can be held liable.
And you can then file a police report and have your kid *prosecuted* for stealing the car and incarcerated by the state in a prison----which is much more humane and less damaging because at least prison *admits* to being a hostile place, doesn't demand to be able to dig around in your mind, and doesn't hire unqualified pseudo-shrinks to do the digging.
Please don't add to what I said. I said nothing about shipping kids off to any program. I was responding to Deborah's senario, the stepford wife thing.
I am against shipping teens off. I agree, we should use the legal system that is in place. If my child breaks the law then I want him to go through the channels that are in place in society.
I just think if parents are held accountable for placeing their kids in abusive programs, then they will be a whole lot more careful before choosing another one. Also, I think it would be a deterant for other parents who are considering placement for the first time.
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Okay. What I would like to see is placement in any program that restricts a kid's mail (except according to the same strictures that would be legal and ethical for an adult) requiring a court order, and removal across state or national boundaries for the purpose of placement being grounds for other friends and relatives to sue for custody for purpose of removing the kid from the institution.
I would like to see any court order be preceded by a mandatory psychiatric evaluation by a court-appointed psychiatrist (at the parents' expense) of *both* the child and the parents.
If the parents have significant insufficiently treated psychological or psychiatric problems, the intervention of *first* resort should be to place the child in foster care with adult guardians who do *not* have insufficiently treated psychiatric problems to see if the child stabilizes under the guardianship of stable people.
I am not as concerned with sane parents placing their kids than I am with parents with untreated major mental illnesses or personality disorders or addictions or, well, control freaks (which should probably be classed as a personality disorder but I don't think it is) placing kids in restrictive environments when a regular home environment under sane guardians is what the kid *really* needs.
(Not true for all kids---but true for some of the kids getting placed. Probably a *lot* of the kids getting placed from what I've been seeing since I started looking into this.)
And I don't think the parents should be held liable if the child steals unless the parents were negligent. If the state where you live is like that, then maybe its laws need some changes.
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Please don't add to what I said. I said nothing about shipping kids off to any program. I was responding to Deborah's senario, the stepford wife thing.
I am against shipping teens off. I agree, we should use the legal system that is in place. If my child breaks the law then I want him to go through the legal system that is in place in society. If it turns out he/she needs to spend time in juvenile detention. Then so be it.
I tried to edit the previous post. I could not so I will just add it here.
Maybe some of the parents who put their teens in a "program" do so to save their own reputation (not the childs reputation, but their own). In otherwords maybe they do it because they are selfish. Maybe they want to be able to say "my kid is in a boarding school in Costa Rica." Maybe they would find it too hard to tell their firends "little Johnny is in juvenile detention."
I just think if parents are held accountable for placeing their kids in abusive programs, then they will be a whole lot more careful before choosing another one. Also, I think it would be a deterant for other parents who are considering placement for the first time.
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On 2003-09-12 10:46:00, Anonymous wrote:
"how does a total control enviroment and not being able to cross your legs, look out the window or pee by yourself prepare you for the big bad world? Is that their purpose or is it to prepare you to chew on whatever the program feeds you until you get a "vision" to grow the program and/or become an employee because after all this is not only good for teen Johnny it is good for the whole world and should be in public schools etc. according to Gilcrease and all his magical child followers
does is see to you WWASPers that the whole world is against you and the groups efforts are misunderstood...damn- if you could just get them to a seminar! I'ts gotta be tough when you are trying to save the world...review cult behavior"
Hmmm. I used to work for a company that said too many people were looking out the window and doing their work- so they installed partitions that covered the windows. We had to ask permission to leave our desk to go pee. Our mail came to us opened, since it was a high security business. Could look at the men, but couldn't date them or be fired!And on and on. Aren't ALL programs pretty much that way in the beginning? Teach rules, follow rules, get priviledges? Agree with everything? Nope. There's a lot I don't agree with in many areas of life. I stayed at that company for a lot more years than I wanted to - not exactly against my will, but the benefits were worth it and I learned to work with the stupid rules. Those stupid rules helped me out in another job. I learned to discipline myself and got a lot further than if I had challenged or not followed the rules. I got more changed within the organization by making clear requests instead of complaining. That's what Iwould advise parents that don't agree with the current rules. Make a clear request!
Where did you get that wwasps wants to save the world? That's funny! One family at a time healing, learning, growing, and knowing nothing is perfect.
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Carey - it's true some parents would do what you said. We come in all shapes, sizes and thoughts. Most do it to create a healthier family and do the work it requires to get there. What is the criminal justice system going to teach our kids, or us for that matter? Fear, being with criminals, feeling worthless. How many of these kids go back to jail as adults? Did they ever thank their parents for not helping them stop the destruction? This is really getting old, the abuse thing. I wouldn't want to be where my kid was 24/7, but he was never hurt, never starved, never mentally brainwashed. He chose to change his choices, as did I. Call it whatever you want. The press hasn't got a clue.
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On 2003-09-12 12:04:00, Carey wrote:
"Maybe some of the parents who put their teens >I just think if parents are held accountable for placeing their kids in abusive programs, then they will be a whole lot more careful before choosing another one. Also, I think it would be a deterant for other parents who are considering placement for the first time."
Bear in mind, the majority of these parents send their kids to a locked boarding school without even making a personal inspecton of the facility. How risky is that?
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About the kid who "chose to change his choices"---why would I find that more convincing coming from him---ten years *after* leaving the program.
I don't think any parent---even me----should have the right to involuntarily commit their child to a place where they cannot send and receive mail freely and go back home on vacations and are forced to participate in therapy----without a review by a financially and emotionally disinterested and *licensed* psychiatrist appointed by the State.
If you can't live with your kid, and he/she isn't immediately suicidal or violent, and he/she isn't being prosecuted by the authorities, he/she should have the option of foster care and outpatient treatment by a licensed professional, if a licensed professional agrees that he/she needs it, rather than involuntary commitment.
I don't know if your kid was in immediate danger of suicide or an immediate threat of violence, or was in the process of being prosecuted for some crime, but if not, I don't think you, or I, or any parent should have the power to involuntarily commit a child for lesser reasons.
And I believe the long term pattern of abuses by money-hungry quacks will eventually result in changes in legislation to implement that as the law of the land.
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"commit their child to a place where they cannot send and receive mail freely..."
When did that start? That's not a wwasps program. Hasn't it always been where they and the parents can get and receive mail 6 days a week, including faxes?
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On 2003-09-12 18:43:00, Anonymous wrote:
"About the kid who "chose to change his choices"---why would I find that more convincing coming from him---ten years *after* leaving the program.
I don't think any parent---even me----should have the right to involuntarily commit their child to a place where they cannot send and receive mail freely and go back home on vacations and are forced to participate in therapy----without a review by a financially and emotionally disinterested and *licensed* psychiatrist appointed by the State.
If you can't live with your kid, and he/she isn't immediately suicidal or violent, and he/she isn't being prosecuted by the authorities, he/she should have the option of foster care and outpatient treatment by a licensed professional, if a licensed professional agrees that he/she needs it, rather than involuntary commitment.
I don't know if your kid was in immediate danger of suicide or an immediate threat of violence, or was in the process of being prosecuted for some crime, but if not, I don't think you, or I, or any parent should have the power to involuntarily commit a child for lesser reasons.
And I believe the long term pattern of abuses by money-hungry quacks will eventually result in changes in legislation to implement that as the law of the land."
You "think" and you "believe" - Until you KNOW, you nor I could never understand.
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Anon wrote:
Deborah - you have all the answers. Are you teaching Parenting 101?
Probably not ALL the answers, but I do value my opinion and enjoy sharing it. I'm doing the same thing you're doing- our opinions are obviously very different, and that appears to be the burr in your butt. You program people can't control what's said and read here. I imagine that is a source of frustration and what compels you to incessantly defend your choice, your program of choice, and your referal fees.
**What are those little ones you care for doing while you're on the computer all day?
All Day? That's the kind of desperate exaggeration that is so very typical of program people. Is that the best response you could muster? Because you are unable to think for yourself, I'll remind you that young children take naps- I'm not about sleep deprivation or BM.
**This board is saturated with accusations to steer parents away from real help.
"Real" help? If a parent is set on persuing the "help" offered by the industry, nothing I or anyone else says will change that. Having access to other's stories and opinions may cause some to think more carefully about their decisions, to do more research, to carefully read their contract. What's it to you if they choose something different? Do you have a vested interest in parents believing that your brand of "help" is the only option?
**You had separation anxiety in whatever program your son was in.
Separation anxiety? Excuse me while I laugh out loud. :lol: Is that how your program suggested and conditioned parents to think of the feelings they might experience after incarcerating their child? That's got to be one of the better ones I've heard.
Separation anxiety doesn't remotely describe how I felt when I received a call from a stranger who proceeded to dictate if and when I would have contact with my son. It doesn't remotely describe how I felt when I saw him for the first time after 4 months of isolation from the world.
The "treatment" my son endured and the surreal reality we lived with for almost two years was unacceptable. My reaction to it was exactly appropriate. Separation anxiety my ass.
What's up with you continually practicing your shade-tree analysis on me? What specifically got you going? Do you enjoy it? Do you have any clue how ignorant you came off when your only response to my post was to attack me personally with your wild imaginings.
I think you are the one with separation anxiety, anxious about being separated from your referal fees.
Deborah
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The U.S. Congress also has taken interest in the Utah-based WorldWide Association of Specialty Programs (WWASP), the behavior-modification umbrella organization to which Dundee belonged.
House Representative George Miller of California, the ranking Democrat on the House Education Committee, last month asked the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) to review WWASP's tax-exempt status and investigate whether the organization has received any special tax treatment in the past.
One of Rep. Miller's congressional aides said this week that the congressman also is preparing to ask U.S. Attorney General John Ashcroft to open a federal criminal investigation into alleged child mistreatment at WWASP programs,
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A friend of friends is in a program where she cannot send or receive mail to anyone except her mother and stepfather (who probably *do* need therapy). Naturally, they have a vested interest in believing they are doing "the right thing" by incarcerating a daughter who the stepfather insists must "love him."---regardless of whether she *does* or not. And the mother has been convinced, incorrectly, that the girl is a pathological liar. The wide variety of people who know the girl *well* all say that she is *not* apt to tell lies.
I've known at least four pathological liars, well, in my lifetime. It's not the kind of thing you can miss on reasonably close acquaintance.
The mother is...eccentric.
The program in question is not WASPS. Does WASPS let the kids freely write *private* letters to their friends and freely receive *private* letters from them? Somehow I doubt it---but if they do, then that's *one* thing that is not wrong with them.
It's "safe" to let the kids correspond with parents if you've propagandized the parents to believe *everything* *every* kid there says is a lie. Whenever anyone tells me that *everything* *everyone* else says bad about them is a lie and that *all* the people they interact with tell bad lies about them----I know pretty quickly who the real liar is.
Even prison inmates and basic trainees in the army, and almost all inpatients in mental hospitals, are allowed to freely correspond with anyone they please.
Julie