Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Straight, Inc. and Derivatives => Topic started by: shaggys on December 17, 2009, 07:04:18 PM
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I just visited the Atlanta Straight Alumni page on Facebook. You guys have to see this! It has several ex Straight staffers on there full blown denying not only their crimes but ALL Straight crimes. I realize most here didn't go through the Atlanta program but I thought yall would like to see the monsters comforting each other and denying any abuse whatsoever. Just when I was getting in a forgiving mood too. Since these people put their names out there for the public on Facebook I see no reason not to use them here. Elizabeth P. was one of the most vicious female staffers at atlanta Straight. She was petty and cruel to the point that girls would actually shake as she walked by. She says on Facebook that "she never abused anyone". I guess she has a different definition of the word "abuse" than the rest of the human race. I saw her humiliate girls daily. She was one of those staffers that made it obvious, she enjoyed what she was doing. I think I will join Facebook just to respond to these folks. If you guys want to look at Straight brainwashing/zealotry/denial then pay a visit to the Atlanta Straight group on facebook. Not to be at all confused with the Facebook page done by Kelly M. (thanks Kelly) which is cool. If anyone has the time to look and would like to post their reactions I would appreciate it. I really don't want to feel this hate and anger towards these people but they just made it alot harder to forgive.
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How about some last names, too...or better yet, links to their fb pages?
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The staffers that are currently on Facebook that I know personally: Derek Boyd, Abby Orr and Elizabeth Perry. There were several others who said they were staff but I don't know them due to the difference in times that we were there. These particular 3 have posted about how great Straight was. Derek actually said he wished he could do it again. Abby and Elizabeth deny any abuse and basically treat the whole experience as if it was just some kind of summer camp where they helped do waterpaintings or something. Derek was never particularly mean as a staffer, he was a needle junkie before coming to Straight, he needed treatment at a legitimate facility for sure. However, he was and is a true believer, really pathetic actually. The other 2 I mentioned were pretty much cruel witches with Elizabeth being the worst by far. Elizabeth delighted in catching guys sneaking a peek at a girl. Intense confrontation of the offending boy would always follow with Elizabeth barely able to contain her glee at the unrestrained power she was able to wield. I am sure you can link to their Facebook pages from the main Atlanta Straight Facebook page. I have to get set-up on Facebook so I can respond to their BS there cause I accessed it through a friends account. Once I have more info I will post again. Thanks
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"You guys have to see this! It has several ex Straight staffers on there full blown denying not only their crimes but ALL Straight crimes.
---Warning another Long Rambling Post...cause it's raining in the Keys bitches----
It's been my direct experiance, in dealing with others who went thru Straight Inc. at any capasity, in any of the "buildings" or in any particular year on first mentioning Straight Inc. a shield of sorts goes up, as a defence of sorts. What they are defending varies from person to person. An example would be my cousin's (whom I hadnt seen at that time in over 20 years, because I was first in and they followed after I graduated...thought they would still be pissed...I would have been if the tables were turned and the shoe was on the other foot) With the one cousin, who I kinda corned as we headed to a family reunion, I insisted he ride with my wife and myself. He was/is my favorite cousin, have always felt close to him, and we are about 3 weeks apart in age, myself being the eldest.
I began a conversation about Straight Inc., almost instantly, he retorted, "Straight Inc. isn't something I talk about!" I replied right back at him and simply said, "Well, I do". See at first he was defensive, he threw up a wall of defense and erronesiously thought I would respect that and back down. He was wrong. Within minutes he went on a non-stop rant about what his experiance was. With each sentence that came from his mouth his voice seemed more condensed, angered and enraged. He spewed out instances, circumstances, injustices he had witnessed and taken part of. The kick in the head was getting started over day one while on 5th phase for recieving an invitation to a college party being held by a club he was a member of (chess or something). Because the party invitation mentioned that there would be a keg of beer, the host mother turned the invitation over to staff. My cousin never even got to see the invitation, the host mother intercepted it and turned it over to staff. He was stood up, and confronted. He denied any knowledge of the party, denied even knowing about the party muchless attend the party. After several hours of "come down", he was started over DAY ONE.
Was he defensive at first, yes. What was he defending? His anger and rage. My other two cousins, maintain a front, infront of his partents, my aunt and uncle. He had no outlet to vent the rage, he was out numbered by siblings who still spoke highly of the program and didnt, still doesnt want to be considered disrespectfull to his parents. He was and still is in a bit of a pickel.
I suspect my point is, it is fairly easy and simple to spot defence. But the question remains, what is being defended? Statutes of Limitations are well over, there is no legal recourse. So the defence as a means of protecting oneself legally doesnt seem to fit. Now, what of a person that is noted, rembered as one who "enjoyed thier jobs" defending thier postion as never harming or abusing anyone? What are they defending?
It isnt an easy question to answer, for it it has not been my direct experiance. Yet I find it simple to speculate, or to surmise the main reasons for defending thier past actions. And so I offer my speculations:
A) No one thinks of themselves as a bad person, or having done bad things.
B) No one wants others to think of them as a bad person or that they have done bad things.
C) Everyone wants or needs to feel a "part of" something larger than themselves.
D) Most everyone wants or needs to avoid being "apart from" something larger than themselves.
E) As a matter of egocentricity, that is to say..."Straight inc. helped me....maybe we fucked you over, but it HELPED ME...outside of it helping me, I dont have a clue why people are so angry. Because it HELPED ME, screw you folks that are pissed off, after all it saved my life. And to secure this reasoning, those with differing opinions are thought of as, "less than". (yup, meaning they still think way to highly of themselves...certainly a delusion worth defending, no?)
F) Face Book (FB) is a social network. Most members have families and other outside friends and affiliations and so there seems to be a need to protect ones image to others. To me it would be more advantagious for them not to join in the first place, it would save alot of effort in defending oneself. That need to protect oneself to save face, speaks volumes in regard to what thier self-esteem must be like. Not to mention how difficult it must be to save face and cover your ass at the same time!
"see the monsters comforting each other and denying any abuse whatsoever. Just when I was getting in a forgiving mood too."
As alluded to earlier, it must be an extremly difficult task to defend oneself, alone. But, if another person with similar status comes along and thier story aligns with thier own...it's understandable that the two minds will attract each other, mingle together, support, "comfort each other" and defend each other. And so the line is drawn in the sand, seperating the two schools of thought...
Straight is Great -vs- Straight Sucks.
Recognizing that there are two greatly differing schools of thought does tend to make the hair on my neck stand up. However, the two schools of thought are polar opposites, neither allowing a grey zone, a DMZ, it does seem that there will always be conflict between the two. Recognizing this is one thing, "forgiving" is still yet another thing...yet accepting the two schools of thought is something I have only begun to explore. The "F" word (forgiveness), is a tall order, seemingly impossible. Acceptance on the other hand, well, not quite sure how that will work out tween my own two ears. Logically speaking, it does allow for varience in thought. Acceptance of the other school of thought, although not the "F" word, means I am not threatened by the other school of thought. And it also means I can allow another member of the other school of thought to think, act, and behave the way they think is best. In the same breath, I am allowed to think, act, and behave the way I think is best. One slogan on the walls of the buildings I was in said (although never practiced or discussed) "Live and Let Live". As a general rule, I thought and think slogans are vague and superfulious. But "Live and Let Live" seems a lil bit more important today. Hell, it may be as close to the "F" word as I may ever get.
As a Buddhist, the "F" word is the Holy Grail, if you like. But I needn't overly asscert myself or become harsh with myself when I fall way shy of my intended goal. The Buddha taught that balance is of utmost importance. He used the example of string on a lute, or what is now called a guitar or stringed instrument. If the string/cord/line is stretched to tightly it will of course snap. If the string/cord/line is not tight enough, ya simply have a line/cord/string hanging from two points. Impotent. When the line/string/cord is tightend just enough, not to snap, and not to be 'impotent'...the line/string/cord will then make a pleasant tone. This, the Buddha called the Middle Way.
It is difficult to read, how Straight Inc. so greatly affected thier lives. It is deeply disturbing to read how Executive Staff members "never abused anyone", when it is common knowledge that just to get thru the program one had to 'kill or be killed', 'eat or be eaten', 'snitch or be snitched on', 'berate or be berated', 'humiliate or be humiliated'...all in the name of "Love" and under the quise of "Theraputic Value".
Leaving people/individuals out of the equation; conceptually speaking...the idealology, fanticisim, fear, secretivenes....the whole damn shooting match is whacked! It is a cruel as teaching an infant to speak only using nouns as thier vocabulary. How inhibiting, or stunting to the childs growth! The results would be staggering, to say the least. One can see simple communication skills stunted. Social skills would be severly affected, it is more likely than probable that inter-personal relationships would be a dream, lack of relationship would be the reality.
And then we are left to, wonder. (At first I mispelled the word "wonder" and typed 'wander"...maybe snoop into that later) Wonder if_______? Wonder if _______ hadn't have happened? Wonder if I would have _______ instead of______? Wonder if I will every be________ again? Wonder if I am fucked up somehow because of ___________ that I learned in Straight Inc. Wonder if I have to be so ___________ towards the one I love? Wonder why peole and I dont _________, could it be from Straight Inc.?
Speaking strictly for myself, I can fill in these blanks a hundred times over. It is as if the mind incessantly seeks resolution of some sort. Not so much a vendetta, or revenge and as I chatted briefly with a 'friend' on FB in regard to a class action suit. The subject of money surfaced and I asked, if it was about the money. I was assured that this was in no way about money. My 'friend' listed the many grievances we all seem to share in one degree or another. My 'friend' also mentioned the continued efforts of this skewed ideaology, snipping off the spin off's and as a statement to any others pondering this pathetic attempt at "rehabilation" thru tough love measures. Money can not fill the blanks to the above questions and the thousands I have yet to been able to articulate. There was an unspoken, unwritten understanding between two survivors.
"one of the most vicious female staffers at atlanta Straight. She was petty and cruel to the point that girls would actually shake as she walked by. She says on Facebook that "she never abused anyone". I guess she has a different definition of the word "abuse" than the rest of the human race. I saw her humiliate girls daily. She was one of those staffers that made it obvious, she enjoyed what she was doing."
I have one of those vicious female staff members in mind also, although it is not the same as the one on FB. When we break down the conceptual disaster of Straight Inc. we as survivors seem to focus on particular staff members. Understand, this is not in defence of them, but an observation of what we do as survivors. Reading thier accounts of events is to me, mind boggeling. And after reading a few of them there is a tendency for me to clumb them all together in a group of...shit heads. But there is the occasional rare find.
This particular 'rare find' critically examines his thoughts, considers the thoughts of others and not only aware of past transgressions, but publicly admits and offers an open apology for all those that may have been hurt indescriminatly. This, no doubt wieghed heavy on him for a considerable length of time. In addition to the heart felt apology, there had to be knowledge saying I will be "cross examined", the intention would be questioned along with the sincerity etc. Then there is the social factor. This "rare find" was in good favor of many many people. This "Open Apology" could be the end of good favor. Good concious demanded the "LOA" (Letter Of Apology) be submitted. The LOA was a breath of fresh air for me! The LOA restored something within me, I have no other word to use than "VALIDATION".
Again, this is a "Rare Find" and as such, these LOA's are a rare occurance. An exception to the rule, if you like. Even with that "something restored" sensation, I still view staff at any level Trainee-Executive-MoB thru the lenses of caution, descretion, and suspicion. Well, ok, there is a no small sense of contempt, along with the other three. Will I be courtious, in my discourse with them? Absolutely, it's the Southern Way. Will I ask probing questions that demand more than a yes/no answer? You betcha! Will I be threatening, beligerant, intimidating or hostile? I would hope not, certainly conflicts with how I would like to think of myself. Yet the reality is not so pretty. Within, there is a powder keg with an unfortunately short fuse. Good intentions, efforts to heal quickly go south briefly but rather abruptly. At 215lbs, 5'11,(or online) enraged while vomitting emotions of 30+years would and could be percieved as threatening/intimidating...just ask any who I hold near and dear. Some 30 minutes afterwards, after re-calling the event, self loathing, self berating, self ridicule, there is a calmness that is inexpicable. Although calm, there is an emotional after math...collateral damage, not unlike a swath of destruction...I digress
I think it comical you choose the words "just to respond to these folks". I think one need to respond for the sake of responding. Writting your story, writting my story to ourselves seems redundant. For that matter it may be redundant to those close to us. But, wtf? My story is my story as is yours, is yours. Yet memories of Straight Inc come on strong for people at some point and "stumble" onto the "Straight Sites". These folks havent even pieced together thier own story. Not a disrespect, but I know for some unknown reason I thought of Straight Inc and went right to Google. I read as many stories as I could, as if I had a fever, an obsession to know more and more. Then of course I wasnt reading "others" stories. I was reading yours...I was reading my own. Then why not write my own story...it sucks...but it's the only story I have. As confidance built, perhaps some by-product of the "survivor sites" I attended "protests", "gatherings" and have traveled to be with like minds.
I would agree if you "want to look at Straight brainwashing/zealotry/denial then pay a visit to the Atlanta Straight group on facebook". I would ante up a notch and say that go to any Straight Inc. site and you will find "brainwashing/zealotry/denial". I say that because, well...thats what we do. Here I think it best to think in shades of grey. As if on predator status there is no shyness when it comes to jumping with vicious focus on a perceived weakness. Unfortunately, 99.9% of us where trained to treat each other contemptiously. To make bad, worse..99.5% of us do so, as easily as we breath, thinking little, if anything of it.
Yet, that "brainwashing/zealotry/denial" is an aspect, a part of healing. How far off are the 5 Stages of Grief? We all go thru our "healing process", at our own time, at our own rate. The "rare find" wasnt coerced into the LOA, nor should any other (recently went thru a bout of that). It is important to note, there seems to be a bullshit barometor or something. The post mentoned in the OP, date way back. Shit heads pop to the surface, say thier piece and they drop off the radar. Thier reasons for doing so I dont even dare speculate. Bullshit eventually fades in time, what remains is what gets shat upon. Most of the time now, I concern myself with what takes place tween my own two ears. If somehow I think (for whatever reason) I can be of service and what insight I have, I offer it freely. But I would be remiss if I didnt realize that people hear/read what they need to hear/read when they are ready, not unlike a fruit falls from a tree when it's perfectly ripened. Cant really change it, certainly cant re-arrainge it...so there it was/is (Sorry Kid Rock).
"I really don't want to feel this hate and anger towards these people but they just made it alot harder to forgive."
Yes...work with me here...Some time ago, decade easily, I attended a "sermon" of sorts. As they passed the basket, although it was called a "Love-Offering". The "pastor" (for lack of a better word) made a statement or two. It may have just been his gimmic, yet the effect on me was profound. A moment that left me speachless/thoughtless for sometime and even after that I spoke seldomly, avoiding idle chatter and needless chatter. He asked, (with eyes closed) "what would you give for PEACE?"....(seemed ok, innocious, and easy enuff) Then he bumped it up a notch by adding, (and here I wonder about the gimmic) "What is it that you are un-willing to give, for PEACE?"
"What is it that you are un-willing to give, for PEACE?"
Hmmmm. Tough question. But I found a seemingly ongoing list of things I was/am unwilling to "give", even for PEACE. Straight Inc. of course was close to the top of the list. But Straight Inc. was umbrellaic (new word I made up recently) Like an umbrella, which serves as a host, there are hundreds of "issues" that rain underneath it, like the roots of a mangrove tree. Is there any question to why so many of us suffer so deeply?
Your suggestion to join that FB group is worth considering, even tho I personally did not attend the Atlanta Straight Inc. But I have a tendency to "call people on thier shit". But it is more an issue of, dont start no shit, there wont be no shit. Should I disagree with something, I have no problem saying so and why I disagree. Afraid to lock horns...no, not at all. Is it disturbing? Ehhh. I dunno, I suspect so to some. It isnt like I havent been accused of standing on a soap box before or accused of having (my favorite) a "Messiah Complex". Maybe I do, and maybe I have. But whats the fun of bantering, if the one who begins the volley up and leaves without so much as a "Fuck You"?
We all were hit by the same rock. The accuracy of the throw. The velocity of the flying rock. The impact zone of the rock. All along with the ability to recoil and spring back from the rock...or not. All of these and more to be sure are factors in the effects of being hit by such a rock.
Many of us, as survivors are wanderers as well. We all know the Tolkien quote, "All those who wander are not lost.", I agree, we are not lost. Yet we seem to wander ever so frequently, either physically, metaphorically, intellectually, emotionally. Yet the one common theme in our wanderings is the searching, the looking. I am not naive to think my sense of well being rests out side of my own skin. I know that sense of well being, that peace resides in but one place, within. Occasionally there is opportunity to share this sense of well being, this peace, but ultimately that peace is always present. At some point we find that, that which is always present. And still we wander, probably more so out of habit than by nessacity (sp). Either way it's all good. If we as individuals have peace in out heart and acceptance in our mind, our capasity would be with out limit....I am guessing here, does kinda seem utopian. But I have lived with hate, anger and rage long enuff to have good grasp on that end of the spectrum. I wonder about the middle of the spectrum.
Nuff said for now...
Double Dawg dare ya to cross post or place a link to this post here on Fornits. What the hell, nothing doing here, just enjoying TBPITW (nice x-mas stash) kinda makes a rainy day in the Florida Keys, much more tolerable...bitches!
Much Healing
Much Peace
woof
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You are somethin else my friend. Infants learning to talk in all nouns!!... :rofl: :notworthy: too funny...(shakin my head)... :roflmao:
O. Anyway...interesting post Woof. When I see you've written some long and winding post like this, I like to then(zen) prepare myself using the well known, method of 420 prophets from the east, before I read whatever it is you've written.
...and umbrellaic
... well played :cheers:
...Well played indeed ol' sport.
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Hey name is Danny,..... From a spin-off from Syn., maybe a cousin of your treatment center, E'lan. in Maine. Was there back in the 70's (middle to late). What a narration of thoughts and feeling you mentioned here..thanks I needed to hear this , I am new here...but my journey has been long and twisting (emotions), and I am glad to be here.
I am one of those folks you are talking about " a resident who became staff", (I hope your still here)...yet in no uncertain terms am I here to fuck w/ you. I was overwhelmed once again by the vision you have of your emotions, clarity would be even better. I guess the vision comes in once the clarity of your emotions are so raw, you can't do anything else but see where you have to go. Salvation or Pergatory.
I have not been affiliated w/ any treatment center since 1978, yet you would think I just walked out yesterday as resident or staff. The anger residents past and present have w/ me is real today for me, not always like that thru-out my time. This indignance/sense of indifference I had for many years, I have moved away from.
I was moved by what you were relating and felt empathy, your ability to shift in your feeling and contemplate towards lenience in the matter of staff/centers is a miracle in of itself... ( I know, really I do )...which by no means is saying you condone what went on and is still going on.
I made my "LOA" to my E'lan community on there site....... I had also read the LOA you were referring to and was profoundly propelled in my evolution w/ my LOA. Rich's, "LOA" helped me discern exactly how and when I needed to do it.
This magical power is always giving me what I need, so long as I get out of the way.
I saw the post concerning the staff (women) she posted on F/B, I don't openly post treatment center abuse issues and or other highly toxic topics b/cuz it is more to do with my personal family /friends... social life w/ community in a light conversational way. She is asking for it (unconscience to her) and she will get it. I meessaged her w/ some advice whether she heeds this is her right.
Just wanted to reach out brother (I hope I can call you that ) say hi and possibly relate in some way, I'll be around...hope to talk again.
Last but not least I'm a "Damn Yankee" living North of Atlanta, Ga. Go Patriots..... Thanks...Love and Peace Danny
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Hey name is Danny,..... From a spin-off from Syn., maybe a cousin of your treatment center, E'lan. in Maine. Was there back in the 70's (middle to late). What a narration of thoughts and feeling you mentioned here..thanks I needed to hear this , I am new here...but my journey has been long and twisting (emotions), and I am glad to be here.
I am one of those folks you are talking about " a resident who became staff", (I hope your still here)...yet in no uncertain terms am I here to fuck w/ you. I was overwhelmed once again by the vision you have of your emotions, clarity would be even better. I guess the vision comes in once the clarity of your emotions are so raw, you can't do anything else but see where you have to go. Salvation or Pergatory.
I have not been affiliated w/ any treatment center since 1978, yet you would think I just walked out yesterday as resident or staff. The anger residents past and present have w/ me is real today for me, not always like that thru-out my time. This indignance/sense of indifference I had for many years, I have moved away from.
I was moved by what you were relating and felt empathy, your ability to shift in your feeling and contemplate towards lenience in the matter of staff/centers is a miracle in of itself... ( I know, really I do )...which by no means is saying you condone what went on and is still going on.
I made my "LOA" to my E'lan community on there site....... I had also read the LOA you were referring to and was profoundly propelled in my evolution w/ my LOA. Rich's, "LOA" helped me discern exactly how and when I needed to do it.
This magical power is always giving me what I need, so long as I get out of the way.
I saw the post concerning the staff (women) she posted on F/B, I don't openly post treatment center abuse issues and or other highly toxic topics b/cuz it is more to do with my personal family /friends... social life w/ community in a light conversational way. She is asking for it (unconscience to her) and she will get it. I meessaged her w/ some advice whether she heeds this is her right.
Just wanted to reach out brother (I hope I can call you that ) say hi and possibly relate in some way, I'll be around...hope to talk again.
Last but not least I'm a "Damn Yankee" living North of Atlanta, Ga. Go Patriots..... Thanks...Love and Peace Danny
Of course you can call me "brother" even if we are "cousins' in the spin-off phenomina, and you a former staff member of another spin-off. I believe you, I accept your sincerity. And being born a "damn yankee" isnt your fault,and it dont make you a bad person...your now living in the South by the grace of gawd! And thats what counts.
There is no doubt in my mind that your journey as been twisting and turning, emotionally speaking. Your ability to read, comprehend (sp...tis 5am, last morning in keys...so spelling may be off quite a bit) and even completly reading my entire posts says something, if not volumes. There is a distinct difference tween yourself and staff members who have not reached the point Rich, the "rare find" and yourself have. There is a level of humility, not to be confussed with humiliation, apparently you have reached, and I applaud you for this. It is not that myself or others lack the ability to apply the "F" word...I believe it is firmly in our grasp and certainly within our capasity.
You have not or rather did not approached this group of survivors with an air of arrogance, nor was your post condescending. Essentually, you exposed your throat to many others that brandish extremly sharp weapons to slit that throat you so bravely presented. Yet, because of the basic element of humility and acknowleldgement of past 'transgressions', combined with the awareness of the damage you most likely brought about is telling of your character. I respect you for that, and we have never met, and I am not familiar with the program you went thru. Because you understand what we speak of and your sence of what is and has taken place, I believe we are of kindred spirit.
Even tho you were in a diferent program, at a different time (although my program was about same time as yours). The fact you read Rich's LOA, which seems to have had an impact on you, that you sat with your concious untill you composed your own apology to your own people again, speaks volumes of your character. You have my respect and admiration. As does Rich...whom I have never met as well. Since the presentation of the open LOA, I have come to know Rich, actually I began to know Rich before his LOA surfaced. I goaded him, poked and proded him. I threw everything in my arsenal at him (Straight survivors have an immense arsenal when it comes to striping one down to the core). It is notta hidden fact that I have done and will do this to any former staff member that swings in here with a sing-song type attitude, actively dismissing our collective emotions in regard to Straight Inc.
What is not so clearly understood, is that so many of us are on the brink of forgiveness. Even tho this site along with others are a seething cauldron of emotional froth, most of us, if approached sincerily,I think many are willing, if not anxious to embrace all those who suffer...which I do not think excludes former staff members. The primary mistake so many former staff have made is entertaining the notion that we are still under thier "control" or under thier "influence". As survivors, we are astuely aware of this 'notion' and as indicated we generally wont hesitate to unleash this unbridled fury upon former staff and thier silly 'notions'. And the mistake of being dismissive in attitude towards us, usually and rightfully so elicits an explosive responce. And it isnt so much the "person", its thier approach that is under attack.
Again, I digress...Watching Rich after the LOA has been a fascinating experiance for me. Without actually knowing him, I realise that by in large my observations of Rich are chiefly assumtions, presumptions and all from a significant distance. Having said that, I can move on to say with a relative degree of certainty that he has had a huge burden lifted from his shoulders. I watch his posts, I watch his interactions with others, I can see his unquestionable devotion to his family and to others as well. And if I were to be asked...I would say he is much "happier", healthier and a better person because he faced his own demons eye to eye. Then he faced us. He truely expossed his throat to a mass of people quite capable of shredding his vulnerable throat. Yet, quite the opposite took place. The ramifactaions of his LOA are not fully known to me. I do know it brought about alot of critisim from his Executive Status peers, but then again, this points to his character. Rich and yourself, Danny are not the target, or subject of this thread. Albiet a wonderfull suprise and experiance to read your words. The both of you are prime examples of what is possible. Your words along with Rich's re-affirm my faith in humans beings as a race. Yet I hope more for your words. I hope your words reach others that shared your descion to join a group of staff members and actively defend thier past descions at the expence of others emotions and state of mind.
It takes intestinal fortitude for you, Rich and anyone else to say, I was wrong, I know I must have hurt so many others. Then be able to accept months of emails and having to repeat the apology over and over and over. It takes alot of BIG BALLs to do that. The both of you have my admiration, without question. But then I consider those unwilling to do what you and Rich have done.
I have little sympathy for those unwilling to face thier past actions. Yes, I am and can be quite contemptious towards those that are less than willing. More so if they show any signs of dismissal towards those survivors doing all they can to mantain an even keel, doing everything towards the direction of healing. Impede someones efforts to heal and that short fuse I spoke of, well, consider it lit. I am not alone in protecting those who strive for healing and understanding. As a child in a program, I was incapable of anything but saving myself. I am a grown ass man now. I am not threatened by wishcraft, snappy lil slogans and meaningless jargon meant to shut me up.
This does not mean, nor do I mean to imply that I am unaware of the suffering a former staff member may, or may not be experiancing. Or that I lack compassion for such individuals, that would be inaccurate. I may think of the woman on FB mentioned in the OP as pathetic along with the other pathetic souls who scurry about licking each others wounds. And it is pathetic. Unfortunately, they have not matured or ripened to a point where they can look back in retrospect and seen the damage and in some cases CARNAGE they themselves created. And if they have done so, fully accept the responcibility for thier actions rather than run behind familiar excuses for cover.
There is no crime,shame or disgrace in stating emphatically(sp) "I was wrong, I caused damage and I accept responcibility, please accept my apology, if you wish to discuss it further, I can be contacted via email, and or phone". As I said, no shame, no crime, no disgrace....but it does take balls. It will be interesting to see what unfolds, if anything from this discourse. Already it has been a suprising thread with unexpected, unsolicited particapation from a former staff member from another synanon spin-off. I dont use the word much, but here it seems appropriate, your input is a "blessing" because it illustrates what is indeed possible if one is willing to examine thier actions. Past and Present.
As for the woman and man alluded to in the OP, I havent much hope that they will follow yours and Rich's example. But who knows?! He nor she never affected me, they are essentually meaningless and at most, typical of the arrogance of most former staff. I make no effort to hide my contemptious attitude toward them. I will not go out of my way to harass or badger them unless they make the mistake of showing arrogance or become dismissive of struggling Survivors. It is a sacred line that must not be crossed (at least tween my own two ears). As I said in my earlier post, if they dont start any shit, there wont be any shit. But due to the disgustingly high probablity thier arrogance wont be able to conceal itself, there is a high probablity I will address that arrogance with out a moment of hesitation. (as I proof read this last sentence, I noticed a distinct lack of emotion. Not so much in the words, but the motivation behind the words....no anger, no revenge, no vendeta and not even a knee jerk reaction...just a fact...and I am ok with that)
I appreciate your input, your insight and your direct personal experiance Danny Boy (if I may call you that). You have my utmost respect. You may call on me anytime, if/when you do so, by all means consider me "brother".
I wish you continued Healing
I wish you much Peace
dave
AKA; Woof-a-Doof
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Thanks Dave; (aka) woof a doof.......means alot
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Thanks for the responses above. I read these posts and I got to thinking. Before I go on some crusade to condemn these people for what they did, I really need to fully aknowledge my own participation in the things that I complain about. While incarcerated at the cult of Straight inc I did participate directly in abuse of other inmates. This is the part of the whole thing that pisses me off the most. I am 2 years into this thing and I still just can't quite wrap my mind around that part of it. I get extremely defensive. Maybe I want to confront thse staffers so I don't have to think about my own shit so much. Don't get me wrong, I think anyone that remembers me from Straight would say I was not particularly cruel or anything. A newcomer under my care could definently consider himself lucky by Straight standards. But when these Staffers commanded me to do something, I did it. Whether it be participating in the humiliation of others in group, preventing someone from leaving, taking part in food /sleep deprivation of newcomers etc etc etc, it was all ABUSE. The fact that they openly deny all that, just touches some deep nerve in me. I am sorry to anyone I did wrong while I was in there. Thanks.
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Reflection is a conscious decision.....how I use it ..... well that depends......on motives. Love and Peace Danny.
Love this site !!!!!!
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so how do I find the site? Don't have a facebook acct nor do I want one.
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Most probably will have to get a FB account.
Take note, it is not only on the Atlanta Straight group's room that pro-straight propaganda exists, but in the Straight Inc. Survivors group as well. It's absolutely mind boggling! Straight Inc is being praised and those who disagree are poo-poo'd. At this point in time there is a pissing match actively taking place, the arrogance of pro-straight folk is astounding. Established facts of Straights history and the abuses that took place are actively being dismissed. Infact, if your life was not greatly enhanced into a "Fullfilling" life then your experiance is actively dismissed.
So many people are joining that are just stumbling onto Straight Flasbacks and the boards devoted to Straight Inc. Thier experiances are being shot down as insignificant right and left, leaving many Survivors stranded, bewildered and feeling terribly alone. (I am getting e-mails for support...I am only one person...I can only type and talk on the phone so much...I need help in reaching out to these troubled souls)
I agree, that we all experianced Straight Inc differently due to our unique perspectives and thier is room in my heart to accept that a person never drank or did a drug after Straight, more power to um! But my understanding and respect for them is far from being reciprocated. Essentually, "Staight Inc saved my life" and if you have a different experiance FUCK YOU. It is one of the most bizarre things I have watched and particapated in since my investigations into my past with Straight Inc.
The playing field is becomming more and more unbalanced. Pro-Straight folk simply do not understand the scores of us profoundly and adversly affected by Straight Inc. This site is well known for its examination of the abuses that took place. I besceech (sp) your assitance. So many that are suffering, seeking refuge are being besieged with pro-straight bullshit, leaving them in a most vulnerable state. If ya give a fuck about those Survivors just coming into recognition of how Straight Inc has deeply affected them and have lil or no understanding of the practices and history of Straight Inc. Please come and help. We can bitch and grumble amoungst ourselves, commesurate and stick to ourselves...or we can reach out to those that need it the most, our own. Pro-Straight folk need no help in stone walling people. But the people being stone walled are at a most vulnerable point. My fear...they to will fall thru the cracks and become our next statistics. So at our next Memorial Gathering, they to may well be added to the list of names read.
In good concious, I cant allow that...more and more of our past peers are immerging into the realm of wanting to understand what happened to them and they are being feed the same bullshit as we were while locked up. I have never made a plea for help on this site or any other site. But I am asking now. Please help! I can stand my own ground, I have no problem locking horns with former Staff and Wanna Be's. And there are others making an intense effort, including former staff members that have acknowledged what they participated in was wrong and list the how's and why's of it....but still the pro-straight camp is trampling over our efforts to lay down the facts and seperating them from fiction.
If nothing else, please consider it.
Much Healing
Much Peace
woof
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Most probably will have to get a FB account.
Take note, it is not only on the Atlanta Straight group's room that pro-straight propaganda exists, but in the Straight Inc. Survivors group as well. It's absolutely mind boggling! Straight Inc is being praised and those who disagree are poo-poo'd. At this point in time there is a pissing match actively taking place, the arrogance of pro-straight folk is astounding. Established facts of Straights history and the abuses that took place are actively being dismissed. Infact, if your life was not greatly enhanced into a "Fullfilling" life then your experiance is actively dismissed.
So many people are joining that are just stumbling onto Straight Flasbacks and the boards devoted to Straight Inc. Thier experiances are being shot down as insignificant right and left, leaving many Survivors stranded, bewildered and feeling terribly alone. (I am getting e-mails for support...I am only one person...I can only type and talk on the phone so much...I need help in reaching out to these troubled souls)
I agree, that we all experianced Straight Inc differently due to our unique perspectives and thier is room in my heart to accept that a person never drank or did a drug after Straight, more power to um! But my understanding and respect for them is far from being reciprocated. Essentually, "Staight Inc saved my life" and if you have a different experiance FUCK YOU. It is one of the most bizarre things I have watched and particapated in since my investigations into my past with Straight Inc.
The playing field is becomming more and more unbalanced. Pro-Straight folk simply do not understand the scores of us profoundly and adversly affected by Straight Inc. This site is well known for its examination of the abuses that took place. I besceech (sp) your assitance. So many that are suffering, seeking refuge are being besieged with pro-straight bullshit, leaving them in a most vulnerable state. If ya give a fuck about those Survivors just coming into recognition of how Straight Inc has deeply affected them and have lil or no understanding of the practices and history of Straight Inc. Please come and help. We can bitch and grumble amoungst ourselves, commesurate and stick to ourselves...or we can reach out to those that need it the most, our own. Pro-Straight folk need no help in stone walling people. But the people being stone walled are at a most vulnerable point. My fear...they to will fall thru the cracks and become our next statistics. So at our next Memorial Gathering, they to may well be added to the list of names read.
In good concious, I cant allow that...more and more of our past peers are immerging into the realm of wanting to understand what happened to them and they are being feed the same bullshit as we were while locked up. I have never made a plea for help on this site or any other site. But I am asking now. Please help! I can stand my own ground, I have no problem locking horns with former Staff and Wanna Be's. And there are others making an intense effort, including former staff members that have acknowledged what they participated in was wrong and list the how's and why's of it....but still the pro-straight camp is trampling over our efforts to lay down the facts and seperating them from fiction.
If nothing else, please consider it.
I really wish i had time today to post, I really do, but I must head out to work to make enough $ to try and get by this...um...life...
Anyway, Woof- please post the daggone fb link(s) for those who have the yen and the time to get into it...thnx!!
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http://http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/group.php?gid=25869654882&ref=ts
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I'm still amazed at the ones who are still washed. I have a friend who got out in 84 and has been sober and dedicated to AA ever since. She and I fought frequently over this shit and have been sort of on and off friends over the years but it was always Straight helped, it hurt, it helped, it hurt. About a year ago she called me after a fairly long absence. She was in tears over the things she was beginning to realize (hasn't gotten there about AA yet, but small steps) and was dumbfounded at herself for not recognizing all the signs of PTSD etc. for so long. I'm hesitant about stepping back into this friendship because I cannot fathom how someone can STILL see anything positive coming out of that experience and to further subject yourself to that atmosphere via AA is just beyond me. Her entire life (aside from work and her kids) is devoted to either AA, God or analyzing every single aspect of her life. I can't go there. I've FINALLY gotten my life to where I'm happy with it and so are the people that are important to me. Why must these people continually insist that they have "the answer"? You hear in AA meetings things like "don't you want what we have?" Ummmm..........a resounding NOOOOOOOOOO! I don't. I don't need it. I don't want it and please stop trying to convince me that I'm in some dire need of spiritual renewal.
I know this is disjointed and rambling.....sorry.
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I'm still amazed at the ones who are still washed. I have a friend who got out in 84 and has been sober and dedicated to AA ever since. She and I fought frequently over this shit and have been sort of on and off friends over the years but it was always Straight helped, it hurt, it helped, it hurt. About a year ago she called me after a fairly long absence. She was in tears over the things she was beginning to realize (hasn't gotten there about AA yet, but small steps) and was dumbfounded at herself for not recognizing all the signs of PTSD etc. for so long. I'm hesitant about stepping back into this friendship because I cannot fathom how someone can STILL see anything positive coming out of that experience and to further subject yourself to that atmosphere via AA is just beyond me. Her entire life (aside from work and her kids) is devoted to either AA, God or analyzing every single aspect of her life. I can't go there. I've FINALLY gotten my life to where I'm happy with it and so are the people that are important to me. Why must these people continually insist that they have "the answer"? You hear in AA meetings things like "don't you want what we have?" Ummmm..........a resounding NOOOOOOOOOO! I don't. I don't need it. I don't want it and please stop trying to convince me that I'm in some dire need of spiritual renewal.
I know this is disjointed and rambling.....sorry.
I have to say something here, even though I agree in experience and opinion w/ you.
My only question I have, is to statements concerning AA. Do you understand that AA only knowledges, that what it stands for is a " design for living ". AA meanig the written material.
Thank God I can get up and walk out of a meeting anytime I want, I can pretty much do whatever I want, within good humane conduct. I'm sorry I can't even come close to comparing AA with a treatment center on the whole, yet I will accept the fact that folks are so messed up that they allow people and/or concepts to dominate them in AA.
Not to be said for the center I went through, very different experience to the point of night and day.
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I tried, I really really tried. I spent several hours writting in an effort to reach out to this knuckelhead. When I proof read it, crossed my i's and dotted my t's, I felt that I had gone in depth and thought I wrote in such a language that would be non abrasive, non threatening nothing like that. I went to FB, got ready to copy/paste from NotePad to the comment box, and I made the mistake of reading this knuckelheads reply to Shaggy. I seriously tried to maintain a civil tounge and not loose my religion over the idiot...but I did anyway. I wish there was a good emotion that follows such an outburst of emotion. I wish I could give myself a high 5 and slap my back, hell even buy a round of beer for everyone. But there is no such emotion now. I seriously despise myself becoming angered. There was a time when it was such a rush when I got angry, eyes all dialated and shit, capillaries surging with adrenaline...but now, I feel as if I have physically beaten myself. In so many ways I am disapointed with myself. I didnt use alot, if any vulgar lanquage (not that I am above it, but I wanted to approach the problem differently)But he flagrantly dismissed Shaggy and his posts. I dont know Shaggy (I dont think) but I felt like an idiot trying to make nice with this douche bag and here he goes again bashing on another Survivor. I am truely and profoundly disturbed with myself, but his dismissive attitude on Shaggy was the last thing I remember clearly. Earlier thats all I was to ask him, to be more considerate and not so dismissive of other Survivors. I felt myself slowly losing control, I think I even wrote about applying restraint but as I was typing I thought to myself, go ahead, take the gloves off and beat this mother fucker to the ground. As a Buddhist, this doesnt sit very well with me. For some anger is a comfortable emotion and they are more ept than I in dealing with such an emotion. It's the self-depreciation, self-loathing thing creeping into my head. And its coming in real thick
I wrote earlier asking for assistance in that room and some came (thank you) the need is still great. Look at it this way, I been dealing and coping with this fucked up bullshit for over 30 mother fucking years and all I wanna do is bury the hatchet, but tonight I wanted to bury the hatchet in the middle of this punk mother fuckers forehead. I wish I could pretend it was a galliant effort to have shaggy's back ya know, it might have started that way, but it quickly escalated like a back draft during a fire and the sole reasoning was to BEAT HIM DOWN....no, doesnt sit well with me at all...those of you who know me and know me well enough, know I strive for peace and make every effort in the direction of healing. but I failed, I am not at peace, I am in way to much pain to even act as if I am healing...what in the fuck, what in the FUCK!
I know its 2am but where in the fuck is everyone? anyone? someone? dave is over here losing it like mother fucker
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Hey "Woof". Program survivor here.Also over 30 years removed freom the seed.
There are people on this board, who feel this is all entertainment for them.
Seems like the more you react to them, the more they like it. But if you ignore them they'll go away (most times).
Maybe sit back,
and just...............
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Hey "Woof". Program survivor here.Also over 30 years removed freom the seed.
There are people on this board, who feel this is all entertainment for them.
Seems like the more you react to them, the more they like it. But if you ignore them they'll go away (most times).
Maybe sit back,
and just...............
Thanks non-ya
Yes, your very right. After I began writting, that thought briefly crossed my mind. Asking myself, why am I "losing it" when in dealing with folks before, thier actions/words would be like water rolling off of a ducks back...But why the guy got to me? IT seemed that every word from every other one contributing he quickly sliced it down, minimized and marginalized everything so smugly and calliousedly.
It doesnt help that an incessant seething has been brewng for several weeks. I kinda attributed it to gearing up for the vacation, the travel and I had to do the packing, the packing of the car, the driving, the un-packing and it also didnt help that for 4 days my phone had not rang at all,(I thought I would skate into the vacation smooooothly) the day we we were scheduled to leave a torrent of phone calls, one call after another (feast or famine...in total I had over a dozen phone calls whilst on vacation...the up side is I got intouch with them all and and salvaged 9 jobs thus far). I was frustrated with my wife due to her lack of assistance, I actually told her that her "princessness is not practical and I can not do EVERYTHING"...I simply was ovherwhelmed.
Unfortunately all those ingrediants pre-mixed were left on the stove un-checked...in a pressure cooker and I hadnt checked the release valve. The result (in retrospect) was inevitable, if not predictable. My statements I made towards the individual on FB, I stand by, even now that the perfect emotional storm has passed. Although I am not proud of how I responded/reacted, my accuracy was dead on...but the question remains, was the emotional aftermath worth it? I dunno, the jury is still out on that.
I found a thread on yet another Straight related message board over 3 years old that ultimately led to a disscussion on therapies for PTSD or whatever it is that fucks with our heads. My wife found the Dr's specializing in this therapy. I have had enuff, I have done all I can do for myself towards the goal of healing, it's time to seek outside councel. Last nights events made that known to me beyond a shadow of doubt. A full grown ass man, a buisness owner, tax payer, active in the community and I found my self sobbing in my front yard.(all of which took place after I posted here) As I sat with this bundle of emotions,it occured to me that I was in the midst, of was a moment of dis-illusionment. By definition, dis-illusionment is a good thing, no longer living under an illusion. However, the experiance of disillusionment I found to be far from a comfortable experiance. Down right painfull actually.
History has shown me that "this to shall pass". Thank gawd it is my history, my direct experiance, so it is more than a quip lil saying for me.I sincerly appreciate your responce "Non Ya" your lil gentle reminder was a beautiful way to begin yet another day.
Much Peace
Much Healing
woof
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Peace, Healing , and a merry x-mas back at ya!
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@ Woof, @Shaggy, @ None-ya
As you know, I was at one time staff also (like Curtis), and as Curtis I had to find a place to put this shame and guilt. Now I will say this hadn't manifested itself with strength until I sobered up (late twenties). I must also say that the guilt I felt started to clarify right before I left (as a employee), yet I didn't say or do anything about this. This was typical of me, since I came from a abusive home, I just learned you don't say anything and keep moving. You get a sick sense of indifference about it. I also came in a bonified drug addict, alachole abuser, and all the problems w/ that, ei; crimes, youth correctional ect.....also skated through the center w/o any indentified abuse towards me (at least that's what I thought at the time), but I certainly saw it against others yet at the time dismissed it as they deserved it or none of my business. "Just keep moving", doing my M.O.
I feel very sad for Curtis, because he has a big problem ( HIS EGO), if he admits to the abuse, then he can no longer justify in his heart his employment there, he has to question his relationships w/ other peers, that will eventually come forward and blow his picture up, and he has to finally deal w/ the heart and soul of Curtis. Now I am not a doctor, but I have been around this life a long time, 34 yrs. to be exact and very few folks are different. Many ex-staff want to be, only to find that their experience is really no different in so far as the abuses that went on there. Sometimes I think folks confuse watching abuse and actually being abuse and if
you weren't abused in your mind well it didn't happen anywhere. (if that makes sense, this shit is fucking heavy, man).
This dude really needs to wake up, I really think he is full of crap, fighting with you folks, he sounds like he is in AA/Na, he uses the term program alot, that could also be from Straight, he really wants to get to forgiveness w/o admitting outloud to his guilt.
Just some thoughts I had, kicked up alot of stuff. More to come, from your cousin "Danny Boy"......Go Patriots!!!!!!!
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@ Woof, @Shaggy, @ None-ya
As you know, I was at one time staff also (like Curtis), and as Curtis I had to find a place to put this shame and guilt. Now I will say this hadn't manifested itself with strength until I sobered up (late twenties). I must also say that the guilt I felt started to clarify right before I left (as a employee), yet I didn't say or do anything about this. This was typical of me, since I came from a abusive home, I just learned you don't say anything and keep moving. You get a sick sense of indifference about it. I also came in a bonified drug addict, alachole abuser, and all the problems w/ that, ei; crimes, youth correctional ect.....also skated through the center w/o any indentified abuse towards me (at least that's what I thought at the time), but I certainly saw it against others yet at the time dismissed it as they deserved it or none of my business. "Just keep moving", doing my M.O.
I feel very sad for Curtis, because he has a big problem ( HIS EGO), if he admits to the abuse, then he can no longer justify in his heart his employment there, he has to question his relationships w/ other peers, that will eventually come forward and blow his picture up, and he has to finally deal w/ the heart and soul of Curtis. Now I am not a doctor, but I have been around this life a long time, 34 yrs. to be exact and very few folks are different. Many ex-staff want to be, only to find that their experience is really no different in so far as the abuses that went on there. Sometimes I think folks confuse watching abuse and actually being abused and if you weren't abused in your mind, well it didn't happen anywhere. (if that makes sense, this shit is fucking heavy, man).
This dude really needs to wake up, I really think he is full of crap, fighting with you folks, he sounds like he is in AA/Na, he uses the term program alot, that could also be from Straight, he really wants to get to forgiveness w/o admitting outloud to his guilt.
Just some thoughts I had, kicked up alot of stuff. More to come, from your cousin "Danny Boy"......Go Patriots!!!!!!!
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I have to say something here, even though I agree in experience and opinion w/ you.
My only question I have, is to statements concerning AA. Do you understand that AA only knowledges, that what it stands for is a " design for living ". AA meanig the written material.
Thank God I can get up and walk out of a meeting anytime I want, I can pretty much do whatever I want, within good humane conduct. I'm sorry I can't even come close to comparing AA with a treatment center on the whole, yet I will accept the fact that folks are so messed up that they allow people and/or concepts to dominate them in AA.
Not to be said for the center I went through, very different experience to the point of night and day.
Educate yourself..... http://http://www.orange-papers.org/
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I have to say something here, even though I agree in experience and opinion w/ you.
My only question I have, is to statements concerning AA. Do you understand that AA only knowledges, that what it stands for is a " design for living ". AA meanig the written material.
Thank God I can get up and walk out of a meeting anytime I want, I can pretty much do whatever I want, within good humane conduct. I'm sorry I can't even come close to comparing AA with a treatment center on the whole, yet I will accept the fact that folks are so messed up that they allow people and/or concepts to dominate them in AA.
Not to be said for the center I went through, very different experience to the point of night and day.
Educate yourself..... http://http://www.orange-papers.org/
OK I'm going to respond, I am pretty educated on AA thank you...I have read this, ( orange-papers) probably before you did and I have to say like I did the first time I read it. "Good Stuff", excellent work in investagating this subject. As I said in my earlier post ^ above I can move, verbalize, and think anything I want and do.
As to Bill and Bob character well, if that was the precedent (everybody and everything had to be ethical and honest), well shit why get out of bed. There are battles I'm going to fight the (orange-papers) are not one of them.
Folks need a place for after care, to sober up, clean up, where money or lack of, is not a problem and a cup of coffee is free. Rooms are usually warm in the winter and cool in the summer, now if there, "design for living", you don't like fine, but you can't argue about the service they provide.
Oh, by the way there are a abundance of bio's out there on Bill, Bob and Lois, many of which talk in length about their flawed character, just as I would assume if bio's were written about us the same could be said about our flawed character.
One big difference concerning Fornits Posting on treatments centers and AA, one I think of as a prison and the other is a place I have free will to walk into and out of. Now I know you may say no, no, the jugde put people their, well your right but that is the judicial system not AA's doing, which really if we had a choice would rather they (judges) not do it. thanks danny
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The staff members at SIBS are some of the finest in the world! They know how to deal with manipulative druggies. They dish out Tough Love like acid at a Grateful Dead show. Just remember, only YOU can help save them from JAIL, INSANITY or DEATH!!!!
See our website for more details:
http://fornits.com/SIBS (http://fornits.com/SIBS)
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Woof, Don't be so damn hard on yourself dude, that guy on FB is a complete ass. Yeah, I'm one too but at least I'm an asshole with the truth on his side and that shit counts for a helluva lot. As for the counseling, please be careful who you pick for that. I have heard about some not-too-healing experiences there. Seems like there should be some professionals that are familiar with the Straight thing by now. Hope you can find one. God knows I need it really bad but for a variety of reasons, haven't really gone there yet. I am sorry if I ever post anything here or on FB that gets anybody upset. Always remember, I am a defensive Asshole and my postings will sometimes reflect my knee-jerk, knock a mother-fucker over the head reaction. Most of the time I try to wait before posting but it just doesn't always work. That doesn't mean that I take anything back that I said on FB. As stated earlier that guy is a complete ass. Woof, you have helped people and as far as I am concerned that mitigates a temper tantrum here or there. Please don't retreat, you are appreciated. Shaggy
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Woof, Don't be so damn hard on yourself dude, that guy on FB is a complete ass. Yeah, I'm one too but at least I'm an asshole with the truth on his side and that shit counts for a helluva lot. As for the counseling, please be careful who you pick for that. I have heard about some not-too-healing experiences there. Seems like there should be some professionals that are familiar with the Straight thing by now. Hope you can find one. God knows I need it really bad but for a variety of reasons, haven't really gone there yet. I am sorry if I ever post anything here or on FB that gets anybody upset. Always remember, I am a defensive Asshole and my postings will sometimes reflect my knee-jerk, knock a mother-fucker over the head reaction. Most of the time I try to wait before posting but it just doesn't always work. That doesn't mean that I take anything back that I said on FB. As stated earlier that guy is a complete ass. Woof, you have helped people and as far as I am concerned that mitigates a temper tantrum here or there. Please don't retreat, you are appreciated. Shaggy
Shaggy
Believe me on the theraphy issue, there are several in my area that do this one theraphy. And I fully intend to ask lots of questions to see their experience with Survivors of Straight. Sure many here in the St.Pete area know about Straight...witth out a doubt! But knowing 'about' Straight isn't enuff. I wanna know thier numbers of Straight Issues they have dealt with and their success rate (taken with a grain of salt).
Regarding the "temper tantrum", I have had many, and locked horns with better equipped individuals. This was no "temper tantrum", Shag, dude...I fucking came unglued at the seams and unleashed on him with one clear intent "Beat him to the Ground", nothing but pure unadulterated rage reigned on him from the deepest recess's of my soul. The debate over him being an ass is in effect moot,here nor there. his ass-ness is not at issue (nor in debate) I simply could not tolerate my lack of tolerance. Its easy to talk Peace, It's noble to discuss the healing. But to attack, in the vicious manner I did. For myself, is unacceptable. I apologized because ---> I <---- was wrong and --> I <-- knew it. Admitting I was wrong was a personal requirment.Admitting I was wrong, should not be misintrpretted as a weakness. It would also be foolish to think because I withdrew my words, one can expect the same in the future when I say things this person wont like.
I took responcibility for my actions and made an effort to make things right. I was wrong, I said I was wrong. And I did it publicly, as I attacked him, publicly. I have recieved several 'private' messages from this individual. In private, and in public, he has failed to make one concession. And I would be thrilled to pieces if one, only one concession would be made. People suffer. That simple, that short, that concise. People suffered and still suffer.
I descided to write nothing more on that thread. I need not convince anyone of anything. People are free to read and descide for themselves. Personally, I still fully intend on extending my hand to Survivors struggling to piece this "thing" together. I fully intend on presenting my experiance to anyone who will listen and can benifit from my experiance. He would not listen to my experiance, nor do I think he would benifit from my experiance at this point in time. There are many others entering that magical 20 year mark and are desperately seeking understanding. If my suffering has any value to it, the value is when that suffering can be conveyed to another Survivor and somehow ease their suffering. It's a lofty Ideal, my wife calls it the "Messiah Complex" and out of the other side of her mouth she says I can't stop reaching out...Women! They are fucking amasing to me!
My recent silence is because the incident discussed, oddly enuff, provided me a tremendious insight. I am currently attempting to articulate it into writting. I think I am onto something, I doubt it will be popular. I am willing to present anything that may be of service, even at the risk of being unpoplar. What is the saying....What is popular isn't always right. What is right, isn't always popular.
My goals, aspirations all point at the truth, healing and peace. I have faced many ugly things in that effort and I am willing to do so again if need be. When I have all my i''s crossed and my t's dotted I will x-post the ideas here, FB and the yahoo site. I will leave it in the hands of those I have come to respect and value their opinion. I trust they will check it from stem to stearn, top to bottom and when they give me their responce, I trust they will be fair and tell me in no uncertain terms what they think. And I will do this publicly. Because as you implied I do not know who is reading my efforts, I dont know what people will take or reject. If there is a remote possibility that one small sliver will be of service to someone, somewhere am I not obligated to offer it?
Your appreciation carries alot of weight with me. I find it encouraging. Thank you. I would enjoy getting to know you and your story. On FB, we are friends are we not? I will check and forward a request.
Much Healing
Much Peace
woof
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Thanks Woof, sorry about using the term "temper tantrum" bad choce of words. I just got ugly with dude on FB again. I know I shouldn't but couldn't really help it after I read his latest post to another survivor on that same thread. I did decide not to address that individual directly though. I will limit any response to just letting people know that he is a former staffer only interested in continuing his work from Straight. It's not healthy for us to get so pissed, i know thats true but the fact is, I am pissed. There are some things in life which have no gray area. For me, child abuse is one of those things that are Black and White. Either you condone it or you don't. If you condone it then you are evil scum. So to me that cat on FB falls squarely into the evil scum category. Anyway, there I go ranting again, sorry. Shag
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Thanks Woof, sorry about using the term "temper tantrum" bad choce of words. I just got ugly with dude on FB again. I know I shouldn't but couldn't really help it after I read his latest post to another survivor on that same thread. I did decide not to address that individual directly though. I will limit any response to just letting people know that he is a former staffer only interested in continuing his work from Straight. It's not healthy for us to get so pissed, i know thats true but the fact is, I am pissed. There are some things in life which have no gray area. For me, child abuse is one of those things that are Black and White. Either you condone it or you don't. If you condone it then you are evil scum. So to me that cat on FB falls squarely into the evil scum category. Anyway, there I go ranting again, sorry. Shag
Shaggy
No worries in regard to the "Temper Tantrum" thing. Your choice of words wasnt what struck me, it was the accuracy that floored me the most. As I read your post I think it interesting that you "got ugly", but you did so because of his responce to "another survivor". Similarly, my last encounter with with the guy on FB was also a result of his responce directed towards you.
I can only imagine the "guy's" responce to this conversation here. 'They are "cliche'ing"(sp)' or, "They are ganging up, joining forces" or some other inane nonsense. Which of course is silly, I don't even know you in the traditional sense. Our times in Straight Inc. propably differs by as much as a decade. If there would be a "cliche", it would be based on the notion of "Stomp on anothers emotions, experience and actively dismiss them as, less-than"...well, some one is going to call him on the calliousness of his words.
The challenge is whether we (as a group or as individuals) can approach him, without loosing our dignity by writting inflamatory remarks or loosing our "religion" in the process of responding. I think you are absolutely on target when you wrote "It's not healthy for us to get so pissed, i know thats true but the fact is, I am pissed." What we know intellectually, doesnt always match what we know emotionally.
Personally, I like to think of myself as being a well balanced, well rounded, kinda guy. Then next thing I know, I am blasting the "guy", my adrenal glands dump their load into my circulatory system, all the way to the capilary levels dialate, my pupils dialate, and my jaw tightens. Everything about my person is litteraly prepairing for battle.
As a child/adolesent, the flight or fight responce was...all but null and void. There were no real resources or experience in "flight"...no 'street smarts' to enable me to survive. And there was no experience in 'fight'..no 'street smarts' or experience. No defence for the mind fuck we were confronted with. For me, the only option was endurance. Of course, the lesson I walked away with is the knowledge, I am capable of enduring an abnormal abundance of fear, despair and hopelessness. (now there is something to put on a resume).
32 years later, and having gained some of those "street smarts" to prepair for that "fight or flight" responce and honed them with experience. It would be very interesting to me if we all were in the same room, under those same circumstances armed with the knowledge we have since gained. The control they had over us would no doubt be put to the test, and I suspect "they" would fail the test.
I have never looked at the "dude" on FB as condoning or not condoning child abuse in a serious manner, because he refuses to admit their was child abuse during his stint in the DC 'building' (2 years?). This direct contradiction of my experience (to get further along in the program, that is to say one didnt 'cop out', or 'spilt'...one had to be brutal towards another group member) eat or be eaten, kill or be killed was the general rule of thumb. Assuming (giving the benifit of the doubt), he went thru Straight Inc. without intentionally hurting or unintentally hurting another group member...well, strikes me as less than probable. Yet that experience, he adimantly denies and claims only to have had a "blast", and goes one step further, thanking " God, Straight, Staff and some folks that are in this group."
This direct contridiction, real or imagined (mine or his), is the source of irritability and animosity for myself. His blatant dismissal of others experience, runs a close second as a source of animosity. The question that is consistantly thrown in our faces, is one of tolerance. I have be accused of being intolerant, yet the accusation was inaccurate. I understand there are many who for whatever reason, have abstained from drug or alcohol since their time in Straight Inc. Actually, this is more than an 'understanding', I KNOW these folks. Yes, they are 'thankfull', that Straight Inc. interfered/interviened in regard to their personal downward spiral. Yey, they do not dismiss the abuses, the hostile/volatile milieu of Straight Inc. Understand, I respect and to some degree admire these good folks and their accomplishments. But the respect is mutual. They do not discount my experience, nor insult me with waves of arrogance. So, there is a tolerance for those whose experience differs from mine, although the tolerance is not recipricated by this individual.
The people I know that have abstained, are simply happy with their sobriety. And how can I begrudge one of the happiness they have experienced in their sobriety? I can not. Sobriety in and of itself does not suggest one condones Child Abuse, as one who smokes pot does not suggest one condones Child Abuse. As such, sobriety, and for those who 'partake' does not indicate whether one condones Child Abuse or not. I fail to see the advantage of thinking those that Straight Inc steered towards a life of sobriety, as condoning Child Abuse, because my experience indcates otherwise.
So, the B/W thinking, in regard to Child Abuse, isnt, or rather shouldnt be based on those sober, and those that indulge. The boat won't float, the dog won't hunt, the bucket simply doesnt hold water. Ones actions speak as loud as their words. Unfortunately, we can not see one anothers actions using this medium for communication, only their words. Strickly going by this individuals words, there was no abuse despite hundreds of others that simply state otherwise (along with my own direct personal experience). If it is not seen as abuse, there is nothing to refute...in effect, supporting the abuse we all endured. It has nothing to do with his wonderful life, his adoration for his family, his succesful buisiness, but everything to do with the denial of what undoubtably took place around him and quite possibly by him.
Then comes the question of, was he on staff? Is this a "for sure"? Is this a fact? Are their others from the DC 'building' that can verify this as a fact? If it is fact, well, that explains alot! It explains the denial, it explains the dismissal of others experience and it further explains the sense of desperation emminating from his own posts. If he were not on staff, understanding him remains as murky as before.
Much Peace
Much Healing
woof