Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Anonymous on September 10, 2003, 12:33:00 PM
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The Shocking Truth About the World?s Most Prestigious Newspaper
The New York Times' Jayson Blair scandal wasn't the first journalistic fraud perpetrated by the paper, but rather the culmination of years of often subtle, insidious distortion of reality for political purposes.
In "Journalistic Fraud," author Bob Kohn shows how the original founding vision of the Times was hijacked by those with a political agenda who used the prestigious paper to spread a dangerous form of propaganda.
"Once you've read this book, you'll never read the Times ? or any newspaper ? the same way again," says Joseph Farah, editor of WorldNetDaily and co-founder of WND Books. "This book could spell the beginning of the end of the Times' reign as America's newspaper of record."
Kohn's book, subtitled "How The New York Times Distorts the News and Why It Can No Longer Be Trusted," shows how the influence of the Times goes beyond its million-plus readers. With 650 subscribers to its daily wire service, tens of millions of Americans across the heartland are "being subjected to the bias and dishonesty of the Times in their local newspapers."
Over the years, Kohn writes, he has seen his favorite newspaper become increasingly corrupted by its flagrantly political management. The journalistic fraud Kohn exposes is perpetuated in three main ways:
slanting the presentation of the facts in leads, headlines, and placement
utilizing polls, labels, and loaded language to hoodwink readers
staffing the newsroom with hacks who manipulate the news to further a leftist political agenda
Bob Kohn is an attorney, a seasoned executive with experience in both the entertainment and high-tech industries, and a prize-winning essayist. His book, "Journalistic Fraud," is the first major publishing broadside against the New York Times since the Jayson Blair scandal.
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sounds like Bob Kohn may be a great contact to investigate WWASP if he likes to uncover decit.
Thanks for the tip perhaps I'll look him up. Problem for WWASPers is the national press has been reporting the same thigs about WWASP for years it is not new news just new to the NYT
Any group that preaches accountability to kids and yet will not be accountable or even admit that they own entities- instead seemingly hiding in limited liability family trusts of Lichfield and Facer and creating contracts that void them of responsibility for negligent hiring and all actions of their employees on or off duty is an interesting look for diggers and from your description it sounds like Bob -(Kohn that is)is a digger.
not to mention Narvins quote that all of the statements from kids at Dundee are lies before he's even read them and oh yeah saying were a non-profit yet not registering with the IRS- how does that work again
The truth cannot stay hidden forever.
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and creating contracts that void them of responsibility for negligent hiring and all actions of their employees on or off duty
That certainly should have a been a big "red flag" to all of those who signed on the dotted line.
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If all else fails, attack the credibility of one of the hundreds of media outlets who have reported on WWASP over the years.
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How or why did Tim decide to do a story on WWASP? How did he find out about CASA? Who approached him with the topic?
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Oh my God! You mean I can't just let the media tell me what to think? You mean I have to read and listen with a skeptic mind? You mean I have to actually think and reason, remember what they said last week and compare it all to what I already know about the issue and human nature and all that?
Oh Nooooooo! I'm coming unglued! My head's going to explode! Where's my Prozac! Where's Oprah and Dr. Phil! I need my fixes!!!!
:roll:
Ok, the Times has an agenda. So does every other publication, broadcaster, author or individual.
Why do people find this so damned surprising? Have you ever seen a story in print that was entirely accurate, unbiased and complete (without 'lies of omission)? If so, do tell, it's probably worth more than it's weight in gold, even if it's printed in lead ink on sheep skin parchment.
While it's true that there are no 100% reliable news sources on the net, it's also just as true that there are no 100% reliable news sources in what we call the mainstream media. At least when you find something on the net, most people have to good sense to give it a good going over before accepting it as fact.
If you're one of those folks who are shocked, just shocked, to find out that Big Brother has been coddling and covering these sadistic child abusers for at least 30 years and that politicians and journalists range from sincere but foulible to downright shady, here's a good tip for beginners. In any situation involving human conflict, there are two questions underlying all the other flash and noise. These two questions will help you understand almost anything and make you much more impervious to scams, shams and hard luck stories wherever they find you.
1) Who's fuckin' who?
2) Where'd the money go?
Our Constitution is in actual operation; everything appears to promise that it will last; but in this world nothing is certain but death and taxes.
Anonymity Anonymous (http://fornits.com/anonanon)
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Carey wrote:
"How or why did Tim decide to do a story on WWASP? How did he find out about CASA? Who approached him with the topic?"
tim weiner
Junior Member
Member # 3568
posted April 09, 2003 08:22 AM
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Hello. My name is Tim Weiner, and I am a reporter for The New York Times based in Mexico City. I am visiting several schools for struggling teens in Mexico this week and next. I am interesting in learning from the experiences of parents who have sent their children to these schools in recent years, and from students who have graduated. I know there is a spectrum from excellent to not-so-great in the qaulity of tehse schools. My e-mail is http://www.strugglingteens.com/cgi-bin/ ... 216#000000 (http://www.strugglingteens.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=000216#000000)
[ This Message was edited by: Deborah on 2003-09-10 14:08 ]
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DENY EVERYTHING,
CONCEDE NOTHING, AND
WHEN ALL ELSE FAILS, RESULT TO
BASELESS AD HOMINEM ATTACKS.
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WWASP CREDO:
DENY EVERYTHING,
CONCEDE NOTHING, AND
WHEN ALL ELSE FAILS, RESULT TO
BASELESS AD HOMINEM ATTACKS.
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Deborah, that does not answer my question. I am asking how he found out about these places and/or why he chose to write about them. Someone had to have approached him with the topic. I would not think he just stumbled upon CASA and decided to do some investigative reporting.
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Could be he read about it in the newspaper and decided to follow up. Could be someone tipped him off. Could be a lot of things. Why don't you write him and ask him?
The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by an endless series of hobgoblins; all of them imaginary.
H.L. Mencken, 1923
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acutally he did, knowone contacted tim or the ny times, he came to the casa kids.
Believe it or not,
it is true..
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Antigen, I have. The reason he gave me has nothing to do with what he wrote about. He stated that a mother of a child at CASA called him concerned about her child and wanted him to go and check on the status of that child. I found it interesting that he never mentions this in his article.
Anon, if Tim told you that, then he told you something totally different than he told me.
[ This Message was edited by: Carey on 2003-09-10 15:42 ]
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Folks, if you want to make the most of the freedom of press that we hold sacred (and I'm not being sarcastic, I do hold it sacred, just ask anyone who's ever asked me to ban, delete, censor or otherwise abridge free speech in any forum I've ever hosted) you have to understand what type of critters they are.
I would never make a good journalist because I wear my heart on my sleeve. A good journalist is one who can get at the facts and personalities that make up a story. You don't do that by letting on what you might think already or how likely you are to be swayed one way or another. Asking a journalist how he came to be interested in a particular story is about like asking your mother in law how much her wedding ring cost or a politician if he got a BJ from a particular subordinate. It's just not done.
A little government and a little luck are necessary in life, but only a fool trust either of them
P.J. O'Rourke
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Carey wrote:
"Deborah, that does not answer my question. I am asking how he found out about these places and/or why he chose to write about them.
He wrote:
I am visiting several schools for struggling teens in Mexico this week and next.
Do ya think Lon or Jena would have allowed the post if it weren't truthful or accurate?
Is this another guessing games. Questions posed as accusations? How do you answer those questions?
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Carey - I read somewhere, maybe here, maybe somewhere else that a "grandmother" with a child at Casa contacted the NY TImes. I may not have the facts straight, since its been a long time ago. Regardless, this book says a lot more to the writing style of the reporters. I don't believe a lot of what I read in newspapers or magazines, but this last article is clearly done in NY Times fashion.
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Ginger makes the point that no paper is entirely "objective" I agree. I was raised in England at a time (before Murdoch) when you knew for sure the type of politics of each national newspaper -- The Telegraph -- Conservative; The Times -- Conservative; the Daily Mirror (working class -- Labour); The Guardian -- Liberal; The Daily Express((working Class - conservative); The Daily Herald (Unofficial voice of the Labour Party); News of the World (Sundays only -- dealt with sex scandals -- prurient interest); The Observer - (now amalgamated with The Guardian was thought of as fairly Conservative); The Daily Worker (Communist -- oh the horror); The point is that back then in the 50's and 60's England had a vast array of points of view to choose from in largely independant newspapers. Pretty free & democratic, I think.
I always had the impression that most US newspapers and TV were pretty conservative -- NYTimes, Wall Street Journal, Herald Tribune. the Randolph Hearst chain
I was amazed, therefore, when CNN was starting up that it had as its premise that the existing media were all left wing and that THEY were the ones who were going to be objective!! Yeah right!
As I see it, the problem with all media is the concentration of ownership in fewer and fewer corporate hands world-wide. This is far more of a problem in Canada than in the US but it still boils down to the same thing -- he who pays the piper calls the tune, and whether individual journalists will admit it or not they all, eventually, tailor their stories to what they think the editorial policies will tolerate. For the gentle, critical reader it is difficult to read between the lines of most stories in the NYT because it purports to be "objective". But when Corporate leaders suggest NYT is left wing, I would submit that is simply because it is not parrotting the corporate agenda as they think it is supposed to. From my position as an outsider, I still see the NYT as slightly to the right of centre -- but then, in today's world, I see most Republicans as extreme right wing and Democrats as right wing. Looking at the US in a global context, I see the US since 9/11 as extremely reactionary and imperialistic -- almost fascistic (& Mel Sembler et al are indicative of this) The media, by and large as tends to foster this. When I see Pat Buchanan on the "socialist" PBS (as CNN supporters like to view it) it makes me want to puke. While I can read the book, I certainly do not see NYT as having any sort of "leftist" agenda. Just that the fulcrum has moved way over to the right.
"Zero tolerance" and the sort of treatment for Adolescents that are the focus of this site are indicative of how far right N. American Society has gone.
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On 2003-09-10 17:08:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Carey - I read somewhere, maybe here, maybe somewhere else that a "grandmother" with a child at Casa contacted the NY TImes.
You are probably thinking about me. Actually, I did not contact the NYTimes. I read the same request for info on strugglingteens.com as quoted earlier. The same day that appeared, I got a personal email from Tim, saying (in effect), "...I am a reporter from the NYT, looking for information on Mexican schools for US children. I understand [somebody told him] you have an interest also. If you would like to talk to me, give me your phone number...".
My response: HooBoy!!!! Would I like to talk to you. He called back almost immediately after my email, talked for more than an hour from Mexico City, and I started gathering my tons of info to UPS Overnight to him. We talked several times more, the last when he called to "boost your spirits" with news that the piece had been written and sent to editors in NY. He warned it may be 3 weeks before publication, but it was only 3 days. Editors must have known it was good.
When I sent his article (without comment) to my daughter, she then cut us off for the remainder of my kid's time at Casa. I didn't want to tell him that. I will call him and let him know that she is now out.
Tim Weiner is a very kind, intelligent person, and a very good reporter. We talked about his own wife and children, where he thought his own career was going. He was almost embarassed, then happy to answer me about what stories got him his Pulitzers. He told me facts about keeping children against their will and the repatriation process US State is "supposed" to offer, knowing that I wanted desperately to free my grandaughter from Casa. Lots of very good talk. I appreciate conversing with good intellect, and I feel he respected me as well.
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I still think he's a pussy and WWASP scared him into submission on the Spring Creek Lodge story. Argue with me if you must, but he really ate shit on that one. It totally pisses me off because, like I've said before, people make SCL out to be the "good" WWASP program, and I have a feeling they're going to escape persecution when all is said and done. I swear on my mother's grave that Spring Creek Lodge is just as detrimental to the overall welfare of teens as Tranquility Bay is. Although Tim may be a fine reporter and well deserving of the Pulitzer, he's got zero balls. I want to be a journalist myself, and this type of thing makes me ashamed of the industry. Like I've said before, his job is to report the unbiased news, not some sugary story about WWASP to save his ass for the last one. For those of you who thing journalism is purely sensational, please tell me what in this SCL story is exciting by any means? This story was not written to grab readers attention, and sell newspapers...you people need to see that. The purpose of this story was to retain this man's job. Obviously.
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Carey wrote:
"Deborah, that does not answer my question. I am asking how he found out about these places and/or why he chose to write about them.
He wrote:
I am visiting several schools for struggling teens in Mexico this week and next.
Do ya think Lon or Jena would have allowed the post if it weren't truthful or accurate?
Is this another guessing games. Questions posed as accusations? How do you answer those questions?
Deborah, he posted his name and email address on Lon's site after this parent contacted him. In other words, after he was tipped on the subject. You may not see this as important, and that is OK. I do. If you don't have the answer then don't try and answer the question.
No, its not a guessing game. It is a matter of getting to the truth. That is all. It does not suffice for me to just say "abuse, abuse, abuse" without knowing all there is to know.
If you see it as an acusation, I don't really care. People need to ask a lot of questions when it comes to this topic. No one person holds all of the facts and the truths. Not even you.
Spots, Tim was not refering to you. This was a mother of a child, not a grandmother.
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That was from me.
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Melissa,
I agree Tm was "gentle" with teh SCL story.He also was "gentle " with the facts he had recived about Tranquility Bay.He left some very pertinate facts about Tb.Same with SCL.
The bigger picture ,if you read between the lines,subliminal messages were conveyed.
Litcfield in my opinon hung himself woith his ignorant remarks.
The drugs that the kids are haphazardly being given was a pertinent message.
Reread the article.Tim did not blast all of the ugly facts that makeup the behavior modifying of SCL,but the message was there.
Tim was being diplomatic.The koolaide drinkrs are in a up roar.(scary, scary)The fools are do dumb,brained wash to see th truth.
The truth about World Wide Associatio Of Speciality Schools is being exposed. THAT is what is important.
I agree the "academics" is a very bad joke.
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Does anyone know if Tim left things out to be more "diplomatic" or if the editor cut the horrendous accusations?
Deborah
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I know that the kool aid drinkers,at Ken Kay's request,have been flooding the NY Times editors with threats,letters of displeasure etc.
Tim told me he received multiple emails from pro wwasp people calling him racist names and worse after the Tranquility Bay and Casa articles came out.
I would suggest in his quest to share the story of WWASP he has chosen to stay non sensational.
The message is clear in all of his articles.
It is difficult to conceive how WWASP can continiue to do business as is at this time.WWASP/Teen Help has been doing their dirty deeds for years.
There is a history of mistreatment of the children since Brightway,Provo.
My experience. My opinion. My family's despair.
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Hamilton, do you know roughly the size of the population in the market shared by all those papers in England?
One of the things I've enjoyed very much about my new home (SW Pennsylvania) is the diversity in local print media. There's the Tribune Review (Conservative, but leaning toward some very libertarian ideas lately) and the Gazette (dedicated Union/Dem) Those are the two major area papers. Then there are just a gaggle of town papers, though many of those are now owned by the Trib.
It ain't quite the ongoing ideological dialog you describe, but it beats hell out of So Florida's Conservative Miami Herald, pseudo liberal Sun Sentinel and nothing else (nothing! I mean the occasional weekly entertainment rag that eventually gets swollowed up by one of the two major papers and NO thing else!)
When we contemplate the whole globe as one great dewdrop, striped and dotted with continents and islands, flying through space with all other stars all singing and shining together as one, the whole universe appears as an infinite storm of beauty.
-- John Muir
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On 2003-09-11 08:17:00, Anonymous wrote:
Tim told me he received multiple emails from pro wwasp people calling him racist names and worse after the Tranquility Bay and Casa articles came out.
I know how that can be. Before the 2000 conference in Bathesda, one gal was cold calling former clients to invite them to come down and ran into a couple of real winners.
Next year, when Sammy interviewed for the St. Pete Times, same thing; some rabidly dedicated Program parents wrote angry and accusatory letters to the editor. I can only imagine the content of the ones they deemed too hostile and ugly to print!
Just the other day, a friend in the Tampa area ran into a local cop at a bar and asked him how one would go about finding their own juvenile record if it had been taken out of regular circulation. One thing led to another and he wound up explaining that he wanted his record in order to show the link between the Melvin Sembler of today and the shady, institutional child abusing Melvin Sembler of yesteryear. Not only did the DARE cop stomp off in a huff, but several other of his barroom buddies started into a tirade about what a good man Melvin is and how anyone who would attack him must be some kind of nasty actor. This man, now in his 30's, was actually intimidated by this burgoning angry mob and decided to clear out like Charlie Daniels clearing out of the Dew Drop Inn.
And these are all folks for whom this is around 20 year old news! These parents, some of them, even if their kid no longer speaks with them, is a skidrow drunk or in prison or even passed on STILL swear that the Program saved them and react hostilly, often violently, to any perceived threat to the Program! I wish the media would not be quite so considerate of their readers' sensibilities. When cult members act like maniacs, the media ought to reflect that.
Never let your sense of
morals get in the way of
doing what's right
--Isaac Asimov
_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
American drug war P.O.W.
10/80 - 10/82
Straight South (Sarasota, FL)
Anonymity Anonymous
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Are any of these kids on PAXIL? If so, their parents should read the warning on the Teen Advocates USA website. This is a serious warning!
http://www.teenadvocatesusa.org (http://www.teenadvocatesusa.org)
(go to Consumer Awareness page)
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I read at least a year ago that there's a class action against the makers of Paxil (which, btw, is essentially another brand name for the same drug as Prozac). The complaint has to do with the company's prior claim that the drug was not habit forming. Turns out, it is. The withdrawals are said to be worse and more life threatening than heroin, especially to the patient group most often prescribed these types of drugs.
And, just in case this gets by anyone, these are extremely powerful psychotropic drugs that make people feel really, really good. Very popular on the diversion end of the black market, along with Xanex and some others.
WWASP and some other die-hard soldiers in the war on certain unpatentable drugs have taken to handing these drugs out like candy, often forcing them on kids who don't want them. This, more than anything, constitutes irrefutable, clear and obvious proof that they do NOT want us all to abstain from using dangerous psychotropic drugs. Rather, they want total and unquestioned control over which drugs and how much of them we take. And they consistently favor the stronger, more dangerous varieties.
Every man has a property in his own person.
This nobody has any right to but himself.
The labor of his body and the work of his
hands are properly his.
--John Locke
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The Doctor who wasnt really a Doctor, provided by SCL Family Rep, prescribed for my child zyprex.
He misrepresented to me at the time the purpose for this prescription.
Not acceptable to me at all.
They are drugging the kids in place of quaility services.
Mass warehousing of kids easily controlled, stoned on physcotic drugs. Unacceptable to me.
That fact was not in the contract.
Or the glossy brochures.
I TRUSTED our Family Rep.
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Ginger,
The Maniacs,brainwashed parents will be the next article.
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On 2003-09-11 14:32:00, Anonymous wrote:
That fact was not in the contract.
Or the glossy brochures.
I TRUSTED our Family Rep.
"
Anon, I'd be lying to you if I said I don't harbour a shadow of mistrust and animosity toward any parent who would buy into what the Program has to sell. That goes for my own father, who wound up being one of my few living heros and, hands down, best and most trusted blood relative.
But that's not a logical, intellectual assesment. That's an entirely emotional gut response based on the fear and loathing inspired in me by the fact that the "Teen Help" industry is growing around as fast as the prison services industry.
I think that if I hadn't seen what I've seen and experience what I've experienced, my own daughter might well have landed up under some form of forced treatment when Officer Friendly advixed me to make a false complaint against her for assault so that he could 'help' her.
Please don't take this the wrong way, folks. I'm not casting blame as a means to direct punishment or emotional abuse or anything. But I sincerely hope and would sleep better knowing that ya'll have learned from your mistakes in this. Sure. WWASP has some slick sales pitches. So do they all. But I can't forget that the cop accross the street, my best childhood friend's father, didn't buy into it when my mother tried to pitch him on The Seed. And I've spoken to people in recent years who got up and walked out of the intake interview simply because they realized, without any special inside info, that these people were nothing but shady snake oil salesmen.
I hope ya'll understand and spread the word on this time proven idea; "Don't take candy from strangers."
It is the absolute right of the state to supervise the formation of public opinion.
--Joseph Goebbels
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Re: The guy who wrote the book about how the NYT is biased to the left. If this is so, how the hell did they go after Clinton on the travel office thing, Monica and Whitewater for so long so hard? They were way harder on Clinton than they are being on Bush. This guy conveniently ignored that in his "analysis"
Of course, all newspapers have biases-- but the Times' bias is the establishment bias, not left or right. It's conventional wisdom bias, which is why when they cover WWASP, they have to "balance" stories of abuse with stories of satisfied customers.
Re: medications.
Prozac and Paxil are *not* at all the same drug. They are in the same class of drugs, but as anyone who has ever talked to anyone about this class of drugs will know, individual reactions vary widely to drugs within the same class. Also, Paxil is known to have serious withdrawal symptoms if stopped abruptly, whereas Prozac does not.
Despite the biases of some people on this board against medications, there is lots of evidence to suggest that they help lots of people and while every medication has side effects, the evidence that there is widespread harm just isn't there. Sure, some drugs are wrong for some people. they should stop taking such drugs if they aren't helping.
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I'm not biased against drug use. I understand that most of the natural substances we think of as cooking spices contain medically active componants.
I'm extremel biased against authoritarian control over individuals' drug choices.
What is ominous is the ease with which some people go from saying that
they don't like something to saying that the government should forbid it. When you go down that road, don't expect freedom to survive very long.
--Thomas Sowell
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Also, Paxil is known to have serious withdrawal symptoms if stopped abruptly, whereas Prozac does not.
Guess that does depend on how one defines "serious". My friend stopped abruptly and was a basket case. Wanted to die. She's a PhD Child Psychologist, btw. Several of us were checking on her around the clock.
Here's a very informative website. Among other things, it define side effects and symptoms in layman's terms.
http://www.prozactruth.com/index.html (http://www.prozactruth.com/index.html)
An an article from ABC
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/living/D ... 00524.html (http://abcnews.go.com/sections/living/DailyNews/ssri000524.html)
I had no idea Prozac was $150 for 30 pills. How are people, like the mother in this story, affording it? How much of our tax dollars are paying for these drugs?
[ This Message was edited by: Deborah on 2003-09-11 17:21 ]
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On 2003-09-11 14:32:00, Anonymous wrote:
"The Doctor who wasnt really a Doctor, provided by SCL Family Rep, prescribed for my child zyprex.
He misrepresented to me at the time the purpose for this prescription.
Not acceptable to me at all.
They are drugging the kids in place of quaility services.
Mass warehousing of kids easily controlled, stoned on physcotic drugs. Unacceptable to me.
That fact was not in the contract.
Or the glossy brochures.
I TRUSTED our Family Rep.
"
Doubt is the vestibule which all must pass before they can enter the
temple of wisdom. When we are in doubt and puzzle out the truth by our
own exertions, we have gained something that will stay by us and will
serve us again. But if to avoid the trouble of the search we avail
ourselves of the superior information of a friend, such knowledge will
not remain with us; we have not bought, but borrowed it.
- Charles Caleb Cotton, philosopher
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In reading the original post, it didn't really need to be said. Intelligence and judgment tells me he was asked to write about the wwasps schools and programs. It also tells me that these schools are not for everyone. When the community fails to offer anything but a slap on the wrist or juvenile detention or a band aid approach for a family in breakdown or whatever insurance mandates, we take it into our own hands. If it doesn't help, then we blame someone else and find fault wherever we think it will do the most harm. Tim didn't offer alternatives, only a balanced, but biased news article that opposes many, many more views than those that agree.
Trouble is that people still do believe what they read and this book could be a very good resource for those that have been burned by the press, which is probably a very high percentage. Will it change anything. Doubt it. Tim has targeted wwasp, however, there are many, if not all, other programs that kids and parents say the same things about when things don't go their way.
Maybe TIm thinks the wwasps schools are making too much money by effectively helping the kids and families. Why not put the focus on them so all those other less effective programs can get in on the profit that he's chosen not to report on.
Whatever his purpose, believing what I read is not my style without my own research - and not from the web or the media. Local law enforcement or local resources in the towns the schools are in would offer more truthful information. Graduates of the schools and their parents, and ask them both good and bad experiences. Better yet, GO yourself and talk to the kids that are there now and ask to see their time out areas, ask them about food, school, and whatever is important including use of restraints.
I talked to the kids without a staff person present at my request. I based my decision on my gut feelings to admit or not - the media had nothing to do with it. It's like reading stuff on this site or the web in general. It's a communication resource. It's not first hand information. If I want sensational or biased views, the web or the media is the place to go. If I want the truth, I'll go elsewhere. :wave:
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if you talked to a child at one of the schools without a staff member present (if thats true), you talked to an upper level, that means he can be sent back to level 1 for telling you anything negitive. do you think hes going to tell you the truth? :lol: he has a choice to be upper level(talk, eat, get to punish the lower levels, ) or he can go back to lower level. what choice do you think any smart person would make????? now your advice might be good if wwasp would allow someone to walk in there, through every room and building on their compound and let a person pick who they want to talk to, then maybe we would believe you anon
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Anon. Want the truth? Go to Teen Help.
NOT!
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Anon,
I agree. I had searched on the internet and found ZYPREXA is used for schizophrenia, parkinson.
My child had neither. The Doctor assured me this was "brain glue for kids that have smoked pot."
I questioned the Family Rep in detail etc.
I have sinced learned from the MONTANA licensing board attorney this Dr is not a Dr ,put a nurse practioner,whose license has been suspended due too the multiple complaints from Spring Creek Lodge parents.
I know better than anyone the horror I feel at having exposed my child to this insanity called WWASP. How dare they.
The trauma he experienced at Tranquility Bay Jamaica is irreversible,maybe irreparable.
I know I made a mistake in trusting the untrustworthy. I/we will never be the same.
Ignorant is putting it lightly.
I had not ever read a negative about wwasp prior to our enrolling.I spoke with many parnets whose children were doing well in the program.
(Now that their kids are home they say differently.)
I WILL HOLD them Accountable.
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Anon, whose child was put on Xyprexa by a fake doctor, would you be willing to talk to the media about this? You would not have to use your real name. If so, could you contact me with a private message on this board?
Thanks!
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Anon,
Could we chat, perhaps? I went through SCL and they're not getting much publicity at all. People want to put all the blame on TB and not hold SCL accountable for the intense mistreatment of students there. I highly suggest you do go to the media with your story. I've been trying for a year now to get the spotlight shone on SCL in Montana. Your story is horrific, and I know there are lots others like it, including mine.
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Whoops that was from me
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The U.S. Congress also has taken interest in the Utah-based WorldWide Association of Specialty Programs (WWASP), the behavior-modification umbrella organization to which Dundee belonged.
House Representative George Miller of California, the ranking Democrat on the House Education Committee, last month asked the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) to review WWASP's tax-exempt status and investigate whether the organization has received any special tax treatment in the past.
One of Rep. Miller's congressional aides said this week that the congressman also is preparing to ask U.S. Attorney General John Ashcroft to open a federal criminal investigation into alleged child mistreatment at WWASP programs
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Ginger---Paxil and Prozac are part of the same *class* of drugs---Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors---but are two different drugs.
Paxil is Paroxetene HCl and Prozac is Fluxetine HCl.
The difference in effect has to do with the half-life of the drugs in the bloodstream.
Paxil gets cleaned out of your system much faster than Prozac, so if you don't take your dose regularly you can experience a combined return of symptoms and withdrawal.
Paxil is also available in a time-release form that tends to moderate this problem.
OTOH, it's not that Paxil's a "bad drug"---it's the *least* likely of the SSRI's to make a bipolar patient go manic, so it can be safer for those bipolars who need an antidepressant than Prozac is.
It also depends a *lot* on the individual reaction to the drug. People have very individual biochemistries and a lot of times medical treatment for psychiatric problems, for those of us who need it, is a very individual process of trial and error until the doctor finds the meds that work best with that particular patient with the fewest side effects.
However, NONE of these drugs should be given to unwilling pediatric patients by the kinds of unlicensed pseudo-shrinks that are hired to staff these schools.
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**However, NONE of these drugs should be given to unwilling pediatric patients by the kinds of unlicensed pseudo-shrinks that are hired to staff these schools.
You give them way too much credit by refering to them as "schools". They are teen warehousing facilties, behavior modification programs. Some happen to have an educational component- required when you house children 24/7. Continuing to refer to them as schools is to collude with the illusion they are selling.
Further, I'm very concerned about the spin on "emotional growth cirriculum"- attempt to blend psychiatry and education; and the creation of new licensing catagories that allow for these experimental programs.
Deborah
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On 2003-09-13 08:54:00, Anonymous wrote:
The difference in effect has to do with the half-life of the drugs in the bloodstream.
Paxil gets cleaned out of your system much faster than Prozac, so if you don't take your dose regularly you can experience a combined return of symptoms and withdrawal.
Yes, that's pretty much what I understood, though I'll admit it's been a good long while since I've read up on the specifics.
OTOH, it's not that Paxil's a "bad drug"---it's the *least* likely of the SSRI's to make a bipolar patient go manic, so it can be safer for those bipolars who need an antidepressant than Prozac is.
I'm a firm believer in the idea that there are no good drugs and there are no bad drugs. Just good or bad uses of various drugs.
It also depends a *lot* on the individual reaction to the drug. People have very individual biochemistries and a lot of times medical treatment for psychiatric problems, for those of us who need it, is a very individual process of trial and error until the doctor finds the meds that work best with that particular patient with the fewest side effects.
And how does the doctor go about acieving this titration process? How does it differ from the way an individual will often go about experimenting with drugs like caffine, cannabis, St. John's Wort, etc?
The thing that gets me is that so many people miss the irony of a very common scenario. A stout and true believer in the drug war philosophy will turn their kids, money and autonomy as parents over to WWASP for no other reason than that the kid is found to be smoking pot or something.
Then, when the shrink says the kid needs to take a SSRI or mood elevator or anti anxiety drug, and he needs to do so under the horrendously stressful circumstances of the program, they'll not only go right along with the shrink in deference to his credentials, they'll force the kid to go along with it after he tries to tell anyone who will listen that these new drugs ar and the 'therapy' are fucking them up, they don't want to take them and they really just need a joint and maybe some good music in the company of friends.
However, NONE of these drugs should be given to unwilling pediatric patients by the kinds of unlicensed pseudo-shrinks that are hired to staff these schools.
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Agreed! Neither should little kids be forced to take powerful amphetamines, like Ritalin and Adderal. Even if the shrink trying to force them too has some impressive documents hanging on their office wall, it's just fucked up to drug a kid by force. Whoever kindles the flames of intolerance in America is lighting a fire underneath his own home.
--Harold E. Stassen, 1947
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One more thing.
I think we do have a major problem with kids getting involved with potentially dangerous drugs proffered by very dangerous people under nightmarishly dangerous circumstances. But I'm firmly convinced that the TOUGHLOVE, Just Say No approach is about as effective and logical as the proverbial tits on a wart hog.
"NO!", no matter how often or loudly or in how many ways you say it? It's just one word. Not enough information.
It scares hell out of me that there's opium tar going around in some places and the kids don't even know that it's the raw form of heroin. They call it red rock (and, after hearing it described, I'm not at all sure if it's exactly the same as raw opium or not)
If you've already told your kid that Marijuana is a horribly, intolerably dangerous drug and backed that assertion up with rash actions to prevent them from finding out for themselves if you were right or wrong, then you stand about a snowball's chance in hell of making them understand the real difference between smoking a joint and eating 20 mushrooms. Your credibility is shot and there's nothing you can do about it, except maybe get into the habit of admiting when you're wrong or when the only correct answer is "I don't know".
Our youth can not understand why society chooses to criminalize a behavior with so little visible ill effect or adverse social impact... These young people have jumped the fence and found no cliff.
Commission on Marihuana and Drug Abuse
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Laura,
I've told my story to the media.
If you'd like more details contact the Montana Nurses Licensing board in Montana.Ask to speak to the Attorney handling the situation against Mark Ames.
This man was provided by Spring Creek Lodge.
Spring Creek Lodge neglected to check his credentials.
His credentials on his letter head are false.He charged $150.00 per hour. He is a fraud who has skipped the state.
Apparently many Spring Creek Lodge parents had complained about this man.
More importantly apparently the drugs are still being prescribed ,provided by the staff at Spring Creek Lodge. It is still happening!!!!!!!!!!
The story needs to be told .
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Yah, I totally agree, Ginger. Smoking pot is great. Totally fantastic. I never smoked pot before the program, but I will say I have since then. It is excellent for my concentration skills, creativity, and thought processing. Everything we are *taught* about drugs (esp. marijuana) is propaganda. The government has programmed this into our minds because it isn't taxable and it makes an association with "Mexicans", which were stigmatized in the 1920's. Since then, our overall outlook on Mexican people has been considerable condescending. Now I'm not saying it's even slightly acceptable to use cocaine, heroin, speed, meth or any other *dangerous* drug, because those drugs really ARE dangerous. They are addictive, habit forming demons that burn holes in our bodies and pockets. But, I will defend marijuana use to the very roots of the cannabis plant. There are 420 reasons why doctors use it to aid chemo patients. It is relaxing, and euphoric, and completely safe! *REAL* doctors don't prescribe dangerous drugs!!! :smile:
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Melissa,
Hook up with Huron. Then your story will be told and put to good use.
The more survivors who share the better.
Have no doubt SCL will be held accountable.
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Melissa, I think you're pretty much on track with regard to various drugs. But I am not an expert. I have extremely limited firsthand experience with any drugs but alcohol and cannabis and limited second hand knowledge (reading) of any of them.
The idea that the enemy of our enemy is our friend is bullshit! It's become an accepted part of our national, patriotic personality. But it's a crock, none the less. Just because someone lied to you about one drug doesn't mean that everyone who diagrees with them is always right.
Any substance, down to the cloves and sage in your spice cabinet, that can effect your body and mind is a serious, potentially dangerous drug. You should do your own research, before or after you start using any drug, to find out all you can about what it might do to you.
Some people even have bad reactions to marijuana. Those folks usually abstain from that particular drug of their own volition. I know a gal my age who went through the program and, the first time she smoked pot (must have been some potent stuff! or she is just predesposed to not use it) she swears she saw Satan and God as real as she sees her family sitting in the living room. I just take her word for it and don't bother arguing over whether or not the black market jib may have been laced with something nasty.
Please don't make the mistake of thinking that, just because a person lied to you about pot they must have been wrong about some other drug. Chances are, they didn't know what they were talking about about either one. In the end, they haven't given you any useful info. about anything, and you're still left with the task of deciding for yourself about all of them.
I hope I haven't comitted too many typoes, I'm operating this computer under the influence of some fine homebrew. I know and accept the the risks. But I'm damned near 40 and it's yours to decide whether or not I made a wise choice. I can't wait till I'm 70 and, as Mark Twain said, I'll only have to behave when I feel like it. ::kiss:: Freedom has a thousand charms to show, That slaves, howe'er contented, never know.
William Cowper, a British Christian poet & hymn writer (18th century)
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**Any substance, down to the cloves and sage in your spice cabinet, that can effect your body and mind is a serious, potentially dangerous drug. You should do your own research, before or after you start using any drug, to find out all you can about what it might do to you.
Dr Andrew Weil has a wonderful book on this subject, "Chocolate to Morphine". He is very much about providing accurate information to teens re: mind altering substances- including the everyday substances that aren't catorgorized as "drugs". As far as I can tell, his information is accurate and honest. He also gives some other options for altering one's consciousness, like running or watching a sunset.
I like his argument- humans have been altering their consciousness forever- zero tolerance doesn't work. Younguns suck their thumbs, spin until they're dizzy, etc.
The social taboo, combined with stresses, tends to be the catalyst for abuse, vs appropriate use. My sons appreciated it.
Deborah