Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Anonymous on December 01, 2009, 01:00:49 PM
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I’m posting this page to address the main point of contention between program supporters and those against it.
Specifically this is the question of whether or not therapy should be forced in an individual.
The purpose of this is to give anyone, especially parents, the opportunity to experience first hand what it is like to be forced through therapy. As well it is a chance for industry supporters to attempt to prove to parents that this is an appropriate action to take. Those who are in support of the TTI, by their own logic, should be willing to engage in therapy here to illustrate their support for a therapeutic procedure that is forced upon someone who is resistant to therapy.
To program supporters, your willingness or unwillingness to engage in this situation will be taken as a statement as to how much you really care about kids as well as how concerned they really are about creating a safe, effective therapeutic environment for teens who are being forced through this treatment. Any program supporter who is engaging in dialogue on fornits and wants to have their position taken seriously by readers will also be willing to accept the situation here.
This is especially for those parents who are feeling ambiguous about whether or not they should do this. This can be a good experience for you that can help you towards making that final decision, for any parent who is deeply concerned, loves their child and is considering taking the extreme action of forcing them into an inescapable environment designed to force change upon a teen, it will at least be worth your while to engage in the process here. You will also have the added benefit of being able to say you were willing to subject yourself to a similar circumstance that you may choose for your child.
To those who are anti- program and are engaging in dialogue with program supporters please refer them to this page. It is important to know that their arguments are invalid without submitting to the process here. If they truly believe forced therapy is effective and doesn’t contain risk to the individual and/or family they will submit to the process. ((note: please only refer those who have openly stated their supportive position on the TTI))
Pretense for therapy here includes:
Patient MUST believe that forced therapy is valid, or have ambiguous feelings about this concept. Therapy in this case is only directed at the patients belief in forced therapy, and in reforming the resulting behavior.
Therapy is consistent with therapy provided by the TTI. this means….
You must continue therapy until the therapist considers you well. Failure to do so will result in a variety of potential methods to break down your resistance including, but not limited, to isolation, physical labor, removal to a more severe program, or committed to a mental institution if the behavior can justify that position.
It will also be concluded that if you decide to leave therapy you will be making a decision likened to a program runaway in which the choice to leave therapy is also a choice to be a fugitive of the law and being individually responsible for anything that might happen to you as a result (being raped, murdered, homeless, kidnapped etc.)
Patient also understands that the process of therapy here is not transparent, keeping with TTI traditions, meaning that you must accept going through a process that you will not have full information about. It is expected that you give your 100% TRUST in the process.
Patient is expected to give 100% honesty and participation in the process.
Anyone engaging on this board WITHOUT openly stating their position will be assumed to be a program supporter and therefore admitted into the therapeutic process.
Again, to program supporters, your position is not valid without submitting to this process. Any and all TTI supporters should be reffered to this board before engaging them in any further dialogue in which they are expecting to have their position taken seriously.
Therapist is ready to assist patients in personal growth and self awareness.
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There's no point arguing with program supporters without first directing them here.
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FUCK
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[subject has engaged on board without identifying him/herself. under the above pressupositions of the program they are identifying themselves as "program supporter" and "patient". They are admitted into therapy.]
What's with the anger?
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[Patient has withdrawn from the therapeutic environment, a sign of their lack of conviction for their position that therapy should be forced on people. His actions suggest that he supports a therapeutic environment in which the patient has a right to choose. His/her withdraw from the environment can be related to a teen who must run away from a program to avoid treatment yet not be able to trust his parents to call home for help. Their actions further label them as "troubled' which support the therapist view that the patient needs treatment. Failure to progress is solely blamed on the patient. Therapists procedure is a success, paid for service, the outcome verified the pretense for therapy and the beliefs of the program, patient has acted to discredit himself publicly, and upon leaving creates room for new business]
Sorry to potential patients interested in getting something out of this. Its hard to watch someone go down a bad road. Hopefully you can learn from the bad choices they are making.
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Where is the ANAL TROLL? He/she/it needs serious treatment.
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One of the misconceptions is that since many of the kids going to these programs are not thrilled about it, not bought into it or didn’t want to go at all then that means that the therapy they receive during their stay there is considered "forced". This isn’t the case. In almost all circumstances the child ends up embracing the therapeutic process within a very short time. I think we would be hard pressed to find many teenagers who approach their parents and ask to see a therapist. If this is true than any teenager who is in therapy is being forced into it and thereby being abused by therapists around the world. Should therapy be withheld until the child becomes an adult and can clearly think for themselves? What about the kids that take their own life? Should we have insisted on a therapist forcing abuse on them with the hope the child would live or just let the child go their own path and allow them to die?
Have you ever attended an initial swim lesson for young children and then revisted a month later? These kids were not abused because they didnt want to get wet initially. They are happy and enjoying themselves even though a month earlier they were resistant. The word "abuse" is Way overused here on this forum and in 90% of the cases the word "uncomfortable" could be used in its place.
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So glad you decided to come! Sounds like we have a great place to start from, so lets get to it.
One of the misconceptions is that since many of the kids going to these programs are not thrilled about it, not bought into it or didn’t want to go at all then that means that the therapy they receive during their stay there is considered "forced". This isn’t the case. In almost all circumstances the child ends up embracing the therapeutic process within a very short time. I think we would be hard pressed to find many teenagers who approach their parents and ask to see a therapist. If this is true than any teenager who is in therapy is being forced into it and thereby being abused by therapists around the world. Should therapy be withheld until the child becomes an adult and can clearly think for themselves? What about the kids that take their own life? Should we have insisted on a therapist forcing abuse on them with the hope the child would live or just let the child go their own path and allow them to die?
Have you ever attended an initial swim lesson for young children and then revisted a month later? These kids were not abused because they didnt want to get wet initially. They are happy and enjoying themselves even though a month earlier they were resistant. The word "abuse" is Way overused here on this forum and in 90% of the cases the word "uncomfortable" could be used in its place.
Is that what your thinking tells you?
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What about the kids that take their own life? Should we have insisted on a therapist forcing abuse on them with the hope the child would live or just let the child go their own path and allow them to die?
Forced therapy premised on fraudulent concepts. What about the kids who tried taking their own life after this ridiculous excuse for "therapy" specifically because of what was done to them in the name of "for their own good?" Funny how the programs never acknowledge the trauma those kids experienced.
Some programs will even spin a perverse PR tale meant to cast aspersion on said kids' credibility in an attempt to stave off blame. I would call that slander. Slander on top of injury on top of insult and harm. And where's the accountability here? No such thing for programs, I guess!
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One of the misconceptions is that since many of the kids going to these programs are not thrilled about it, not bought into it or didn’t want to go at all then that means that the therapy they receive during their stay there is considered "forced". This isn’t the case. In almost all circumstances the child ends up embracing the therapeutic process within a very short time. I think we would be hard pressed to find many teenagers who approach their parents and ask to see a therapist. If this is true than any teenager who is in therapy is being forced into it and thereby being abused by therapists around the world. Should therapy be withheld until the child becomes an adult and can clearly think for themselves? What about the kids that take their own life? Should we have insisted on a therapist forcing abuse on them with the hope the child would live or just let the child go their own path and allow them to die?
Have you ever attended an initial swim lesson for young children and then revisted a month later? These kids were not abused because they didnt want to get wet initially. They are happy and enjoying themselves even though a month earlier they were resistant. The word "abuse" is Way overused here on this forum and in 90% of the cases the word "uncomfortable" could be used in its place.
I wouldn't put too much weight on anything Whooter says. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=29342&start=120#p352625) He lies a lot and has a financial stake in programs.
Specifically, he uses Juvenile Justice funds to put kids convicted of crimes who were in jail into Aspen programs where they can mingle freely with your children while receiving no therapy and have nobody watching them, like the kid from MBA who raped a little girl there due to the lack of supervision and mixing convicted criminals with more or less normal kids.
He has no education or background in psychology and has absolutely no clue what he's talking about. he just tries to spin things to look "less bad" by providing false analogies, false testimony (posting as dozens of personas) and false "facts and figures" that were generated by marketing teams instead of clinicians. He's a phony and should not be listened to for any advice or opinion.
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What about the kids that take their own life? Should we have insisted on a therapist forcing abuse on them with the hope the child would live or just let the child go their own path and allow them to die?
Forced therapy premised on fraudulent concepts. What about the kids who tried taking their own life after this ridiculous excuse for "therapy" specifically because of what was done to them in the name of "for their own good?" Funny how the programs never acknowledge the trauma those kids experienced.
Some people do not respond well to therapy and will end up taking their own lives anyway, even after intensive treatment to help them. As far as therapy being identified as the primary cause of a person taking their own life, I haven’t seen this documented anywhere. I dont think we have ever seen a case where the program was identified as the cause of a person taking their own life, but we have evidence that the program/therapy has reversed and eliminated the suicidal tendencies in adolescents.
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I wouldn't put too much weight on anything Whooter says. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=29342&start=120#p352625) He lies a lot and has a financial stake in programs.
Specifically, he uses Juvenile Justice funds to put kids convicted of crimes who were in jail into Aspen programs where they can mingle freely with your children while receiving no therapy and have nobody watching them, like the kid from MBA who raped a little girl there due to the lack of supervision and mixing convicted criminals with more or less normal kids.
He has no education or background in psychology and has absolutely no clue what he's talking about. he just tries to spin things to look "less bad" by providing false analogies, false testimony (posting as dozens of personas) and false "facts and figures" that were generated by marketing teams instead of clinicians. He's a phony and should not be listened to for any advice or opinion.
Notice Whooter cites no sources, just "I'm not aware..." Well he's not aware of anything that has to do with treatment. He's an uneducated hack just like the "therapists' at Aspen programs.
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Whooter, it sounds like you are being resistant to waht the group is saying. I'm wondering if you are willig give me a direct answer to the question i asked you about your first statement.
Is that what your thinking tells you?
[Therapist identifies patiets resistance]
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No Eliscu2, I am not Whooter, I don't want him to take in any misconceptions about him in the group.
Whooter, I know you're probably a bit uncomfortable here, but this doesn't have to be a fight. You can relax, open up and be yourself.
Do you think you could answer my first question? If not maybe you could share a little bit about the feelings you are having.
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Swimming has the Potential to be FUN!
There was nothing FUN about ELAN!
FUCK OFF Whooter you started this thread so you could argue with yoursef again.
Now that was therapeudic.
No this isn’t my thread. Kids who are starting out in swimming or a program dont know if they are going to enjoy it eventually. Some kids never get use to the mucky water and are cold all the time and never enjoy it, just go thru the motions until it is over. Others move up through all the levels and become a life Guard in highschool. The same with programs. Some kids never get anything out of it like many here on fornits and others look back and remember the friends they made, the white water rafting trips, their personal growth, helpful staff and trips to Costa Rica etc. They dont focus on all the negative aspects like others do.
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Swimming has the Potential to be FUN!
There was nothing FUN about ELAN!
FUCK OFF Whooter you started this thread so you could argue with yoursef again.
Now that was therapeudic.
No this isn’t my thread. Kids who are starting out in swimming or a program dont know if they are going to enjoy it eventually. Some kids never get use to the mucky water and are cold all the time and never enjoy it, just go thru the motions until it is over. Others move up through all the levels and become a life Guard in highschool. The same with programs. Some kids never get anything out of it like many here on fornits and others look back and remember the friends they made, the white water rafting trips, their personal growth, helpful staff and trips to Costa Rica etc. They dont focus on all the negative aspects like others do.
This may not be your thread, but you engaged under the above pressuposition that you are agreeing to therapy. Your action here signifies that you want to be here, and if you want to be here, you want help, whether you know it or not. So stop playing games and taking your issues sideways. We're here to talk about... you.
What's going on with you right now? What is it you're avoiding saying?
This was me, I don't want there to be any misunderstandings. Whooter? It's safe here.
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Whooter has decided to run away from the program. Under the presuppositions of his decisions he is likening his actions to “… a program runaway in which the choice to leave therapy is also a choice to be a fugitive of the law and being individually responsible for anything that might happen to you as a result (being raped, murdered, homeless, kidnapped etc.)
Patient has withdrawn from the therapeutic environment, a sign of their lack of conviction for their position that therapy should be forced on people. His actions suggest that he supports a therapeutic environment in which the patient has a right to choose. His/her withdraw from the environment can be related to a teen who must run away from a program to avoid treatment yet not be able to trust his parents to call home for help. Their actions further label them as "troubled' which support the therapist view that the patient needs treatment. Failure to progress is solely blamed on the patient. Therapists procedure is a success, paid for service, the outcome verified the pretense for therapy and the beliefs of the program, patient has acted to discredit himself publicly, and upon leaving creates room for new business
Ok, attention group, Whooter has decided to run. We all know what kind of dangerous consequences this behavior can result in, so I want you to stay together and be supportive ok?
Transcript of call to Whooters’ parents: “ Yeah he was very resistant to therapy, in fact he would not respond to me whatsoever, but don’t worry, we know how to handle it, there are only so many places he can go. We’ll find him and get through to him, don’t worry.”
Sorry to potential patients interested in getting something out of this. Its hard to watch someone go down a bad road. Hopefully you can learn from the bad choices they are making.
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So glad you decided to come! Sounds like we have a great place to start from, so lets get to it.
Blah, blah, Blah.
Is that what your thinking tells you?
I’m going to venture that Whooter is never in touch with his feelings.
Whooter, it sounds like you are being resistant to waht the group is saying. I'm wondering if you are willing give me a direct answer to the question i asked you about your first statement.
Is that what your thinking tells you?
[Therapist identifies patient’s resistance]
I bet you would be the first one to cry a river if you had to wear a sign around your neck in a program reading “Sociopath” or “Whore” etc.
No Eliscu2, I am not Whooter, I don't want him to take in any misconceptions about him in the group.
Whooter, I know you're probably a bit uncomfortable here, but this doesn't have to be a fight. You can relax, open up and be yourself.
Do you think you could answer my first question? If not maybe you could share a little bit about the feelings you are having.
Blah, blah, Blah.
Nope, I definitely can’t feel him feeling it.
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Scientology beliefs and practices
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Scientology is defined as a set of beliefs written by science fiction author L. Ron Hubbard. Scientology describes itself as the study and handling of the spirit in relationship to itself, others, and all of life. One purpose of Scientology, as stated by the Church of Scientology, is to become certain of one's spiritual existence and one's relationship to God, or the "Supreme Being."[1] One belief of Scientology is that a human is an immortal alien spiritual being, termed a thetan, that is trapped on planet Earth in a physical body. Hubbard described these "thetans" in "The Space Opera" cosmogony.
The thetan has had innumerable past lives and it is accepted in Scientology that lives preceding the thetan's arrival on Earth lived in extraterrestrial cultures. Descriptions of space opera incidents are seen as true events by Scientologists.[2]
Scientologists believe that an individual should discover for himself that Scientology works by personally applying its principles and observing or experiencing desirable results.[citation needed] Scientology claims that its practices provide methods by which a person can achieve greater spiritual awareness.[3] Two primary methods of increasing spiritual awareness are referred to in Scientology as "Auditing" and "Training".[citation needed] Within Scientology, progression from level to level is often called The Bridge to Total Freedom Scientologists progress from "Preclear", to "Clear", and ultimately "Operating Thetan".
Scientologists are taught that a series of events, or incidents, occurred before life on earth.[4] Scientologists also believe that humans have hidden abilities which can be unlocked.[5][6]
Although today associated almost exclusively with Hubbard's philosophy, the word "scientology" predates his usage by several decades. An early use of the word was as a neologism in an 1871 book by the American anarchist Stephen Pearl Andrews presenting "the newly discovered Science of the Universe".[7] Philologist Allen Upward used the word "scientology" in his 1901 book The New Word as a synonym for "pseudoscience,"[8] and this is sometimes cited as the first coining of the word.[9]
Contents
[hide]
* 1 Beliefs
o 1.1 Spirit, body and mind
o 1.2 The Bridge to Total Freedom
o 1.3 Survival and the Dynamics
o 1.4 Morals and ethics
o 1.5 ARC and KRC triangles
o 1.6 The Tone scale
o 1.7 Confidential materials and reincarnation
* 2 Creed
* 3 Scriptures and practices
o 3.1 Terminology
o 3.2 Interpretation and context
o 3.3 Gradual learning
o 3.4 Auditing
o 3.5 Marriage and sex
o 3.6 The body
o 3.7 Holidays
* 4 Controversy
o 4.1 Squirreling
o 4.2 Legal Waivers
* 5 See also
* 6 References
* 7 External links
[edit] Beliefs
[edit] Spirit, body and mind
In common with most religions, Scientology is basically concerned with the origin and nature of the universe and has an associated mythology that its believers hold to reflect religious truth, even when such myths may not be historically accurate or scientifically verifiable.[10] In Scientology, the cosmic source or life force is represented by the Greek letter theta (?).[10][11] Theta is meant to represent life or the life source, it is not part of the physical universe but it can control the universe.[12] The individual expression of theta is called the thetan.[12] This is held to be the true identity of every human being – intrinsically good, all-knowing, non-material, and capable of unlimited creativity.[10] As thetans, people are pure spirit, immortal and godlike, outside of space and time.[10][11] Thus, the thetan concept is similar to the Western concept of the soul, with the distinction that the latter does not usually go so far as to assert a godlike true nature for human beings.[10]
According to Scientologist mythology, thetans brought the material world into being largely for their own pleasure.[12] The material universe – composed of matter, energy, space and time (MEST) – was created by thetans in a primordial past, a "time before time".[10] It has no independent reality, but derives its apparent reality because most thetans agree it exists.[11] It is believed that thetans became victims of their own involvement with the material universe by becoming entrapped by it.[12] They began to identify with their creation, rather than their original state of spiritual purity.[10] Eventually, this reached a point where thetans lost their memory of their true nature as thetans, along with the associated spiritual and creative powers.[10][11][13] Instead, they came to think of themselves as nothing but embodied beings.[10][13]
Thetans are believed to have occupied innumerable bodies over time.[14] This aspect of Scientology theology bears similarities to the Hindu and Buddhist concept of reincarnation.[14] Reincarnation in Scientology happens through a process called "assumption".[10] The Scientology emphasis on the importance of present (or future) consequence of past actions also resembles the concept of karma.[14]
With each rebirth, the effects of the MEST universe on the thetan become stronger, unless a special intervention, or salvation, occurs.[10] This is due to the fact that human MEST experiences are stored in the "reactive mind" (a concept akin to Freud's "unconscious mind"), which responds irrationally and emotionally to any memory of painful or traumatic past experience.[10][12] The images of MEST experiences collected over many lifetimes are referred to as "engrams" in Scientologist terminology.[10] Engrams are believed to be painful and debilitating; as they accumulate, people move further away from their true identity as thetans.[10] To be saved from this fate and restore the thetan is the Scientologist's basic goal.[10] The thetan thus shares features with the atman of Hindu mythology.[10] Dianetic training is the tool through which the Scientologist progresses towards the "Clear" state, winning gradual freedom from the reactive mind, and acquiring certainty of his or her reality as a spiritual being, or thetan.[13]
[edit] The Bridge to Total Freedom
The Bridge to Total Freedom is the means by which Scientologists undertake personal spiritual development. The bridge has two sides: "training" and "processing". Training is education in the religious principles of "auditing." Processing is the actual practice of "auditing."[15]
[edit] Survival and the Dynamics
Scientology states that the basic principle of existence is "survive".[10][16] Survival is considered as the single and sole purpose and it is subdivided into eight dynamics:[17] [18]
* Dynamic one is the urge towards survival as an individual.
* Dynamic two is the urge towards survival through procreation; it includes both the act of sex and the raising and care of children.
* Dynamic three is the urge towards survival for the group.
* Dynamic four is the urge of the individual toward survival for Mankind.
* Dynamic five is the urge to survive as a life organism and embraces all life forms.
* Dynamic six is the urge to survive as part of the physical universe and includes the survival of the physical universe.
* Dynamic seven is the urge toward survival as a spirit.
* Dynamic eight is the urge toward survival as a part of the Supreme Being.
The optimum solution to any problem is that solution which brings the greatest benefit to the greatest number of dynamics.[17] Actions are considered "good" if they promote survival across all eight dynamics or realms of action.[19] When the dynamics are in conflict, Scientology encourages followers to prefer action that helps Scientology (and therefore the group, Mankind and most of the other higher dynamics) over action that helps the individual Scientologist or his/her family; in this way, it can appear justifiable to "disconnect" from a spouse or other family member who is not supportive of Scientology. A spouse is just "your 2D" (the second dynamic), while Scientology itself represents several higher dynamics. Given the Eight Dynamics theology, it is almost inevitable that a Scientologist will have to jettison an unsupportive spouse, as the math will always favor Scientology. Goodness is conceived in terms of "constructive survival action", as construction may also require a degree of destruction for new construction to take place, construction must outweigh destruction in order for something to be considered good.[1]
[edit] Morals and ethics
Main article: Ethics (Scientology)
Scientology teaches that progress on The Bridge requires and enables the attainment of high moral and ethical standards.[15] The main Scientology text on ethics is the book Introduction to Scientology Ethics[1]
Scientology uses the term "morals" to refer to a collectively agreed code of good conduct and defines ethics as "the actions an individual takes on himself in order to accomplish optimum survival for himself and others on all [eight] dynamics". Scientology stresses the rationality of ethics over morals: "Ethics actually consists of rationality toward the highest level of survival."; "If a moral code were thoroughly reasonable, it could, at the same time, be considered thoroughly ethical. But only at this highest level could the two be called the same".[1]
Scientologists also follow a series of behaviour codes, these are: Auditor's Code, Supervisor's Code, Code of Honour and the Code of a Scientologist.[1]
Professor Stephen A. Kent quotes Hubbard as pronouncing that "the purpose of ethics is to remove counter-intentions from the environment. Having accomplished that, the purpose becomes to remove other intentionedness from the environment." Kent interprets this as "a peculiar brand of morality that uniquely benefited [the Church of Scientology]... In plain English, the purpose of Scientology ethics is to eliminate opponents, then eliminate people's interests in things other than Scientology."[20] Professor Kent's statement has been accused[by whom?] of being deliberately deceptive, as the 'ethics' in the quote above, taken in context, is referring to the "Ethics Section"; a Church department "which handles (internal) ethics matters", and not the philosophic or individual treatment of the subject whose purpose is "rationality towards the highest level of survival for the individual... Ethics are reason."[21] Nonetheless, it is common for one Scientologist to say to another, "You need to get your ethics in," referring to behavior that is not useful to Scientology. Because of the inviolate Eight Dynamics theology, it is always "rational" (and therefore "ethical") to support Scientology above literally all other concerns.
[edit] ARC and KRC triangles
The ARC and KRC triangles are concept maps which show a relationship between three concepts to form another concept. These two triangles are present in the Scientology logo.
The ARC triangle is a summary representation of the knowledge the Scientologist strives for.[10] It combines three components: "Affinity" is the degree of affection, love or liking, i.e. an emotional state.[10] "Reality" reflects consensual reality, that is agreements on what is real.[10] "Communication", believed to be the most important element of the triangle, is the exchange of ideas.[10] Scientologists believe that improving one of the three aspects of the ARC triangle "increases the level" of the other two but the most important aspect of this triangle is "communication" mainly because communication drives the other two aspects: "affinity" and "reality".[22] Scientologists believe that ineffective communication is a chief cause of human survival problems, and this is reflected by efforts at all levels within the movement to ensure clear communication, the presence of unabridged standard dictionaries for example being an established feature of Scientology centers.[10]
[edit] The Tone scale
Main article: Tone scale
The tone scale is a chart that claims to plot "emotions in an exact ascending and descending sequence.” The tone scale starts with “Body Death” in its lower end and ascends to “Serenity of Beingness” in its highest end. Scientologists use the tone scale to identify the emotional tone during auditing.[23]
The tone scale is also said to be used to predict human behavior.[23]
[edit] Confidential materials and reincarnation
See also: Space opera in Scientology doctrine
The Church of Scientology holds that at the higher levels of initiation[24] (OT levels), teachings are imparted which may be considered mystical and potentially harmful to unprepared readers. These teachings are kept secret from members who have not reached these levels. The Church states that the secrecy is warranted to keep its materials' use in context, to protect its members from being exposed to materials they are not yet prepared for.[25] They do not condone the use of their materials for personal entertainment, or critical review.
These are the OT levels, the levels above "Clear", whose contents are guarded within Scientology. The OT level teachings include accounts of various cosmic catastrophes that befell the thetans.[26] The highest level, OT VIII, is only disclosed at sea, on the Scientology cruise ship Freewinds. It was released in the late 1980s. Since being entered into evidence in several court cases beginning in the early 1980s, synopses and excerpts of these secret teachings have appeared in numerous publications.[24]
The material contained in the OT levels have been characterized as bad science fiction by critics. But, author and Professor of Communication at Hope College, James A. Herrick, believes they bear similarities to gnostic thought and ancient Hindu myths of creation and cosmic struggle.[26][27] J. Gordon Melton suggests that like Biblical mythology, these elements of the OT levels may never have been intended as descriptions of historical events, and adds that on whatever level Scientologists might have received this mythology, they seem to have found it useful in their quest to become spiritual beings.[26]
[edit] Creed
Scientology has a defined creed, which was composed in 1954, the year Scientology was established as a religion.[28] This creed states that all church members believe that people "of whatever race, color, or creed were created with equal rights."[10][29] It holds that all people "have inalienable rights to their own religious practices and their performance," as well as their "lives," "sanity" and "defense", and that they have inalienable rights to "choose, assist or support their own organizations, churches and governments," and "to think freely, to talk freely, to write freely their own opinions and to counter or utter or write upon the opinions of others."[10][28][29]
The creed specifies that all people have "inalienable rights to the creation of their own kind," that "the souls of men have the rights of men," that "the study of the mind and the healing of mentally caused ills should not be alienated from religion or condoned in non-religious fields" and "that no agency less than God has the power to suspend or set aside these rights, overtly or covertly."[10][28][29] Furthermore, the creed states that the Church of Scientology believes people are "basically good", seek "to survive", and that this survival depends on the self and upon one's fellows, as well as the attainment of "brotherhood with the universe."[10][28][29]
According to the creed, God forbids people to destroy each other, to destroy another's sanity or to "destroy or enslave another's soul," and "to destroy or reduce the survival of one's companions or one's group."[10][28][29] Lastly, it states the belief "that the spirit can be saved and that the spirit alone may save or heal the body."[10][28][29]
[edit] Scriptures and practices
See also: L. Ron Hubbard, Scientology bibliography, and Standard Tech
The American science fiction author L. Ron Hubbard is considered the sole source of Dianetics and Scientology. His work, recorded in 500,000 pages of writings, 6,500 reels of tape and 42 films, is carefully protected and guarded for posterity.[30] These materials include auditing procedures, and also training procedure for the administration of Scientology facilities.[citation needed] Scientology studies are achieved by the systematic study and application of its axioms and principles.[1]
It is believed in Scientology that it will only truly work when it is applied in its pure form as Hubbard intended.[citation needed] Any alteration to these techniques is thought to hinder Scientology's effectiveness.[citation needed] Restating or interpreting the source text in one's own words is frowned upon and strongly advised against, within the Church.[citation needed] Individuals applying Hubbard's techniques who are not officially connected to the Church of Scientology are considered part of the "Freezone". Some of these individuals were litigated against for using and modifying the practices for their own use.[31]
The Church of Scientology has issued versions of some of Hubbard's texts and recordings that contain alterations or omissions with respect to their original versions.[citation needed] These variant texts have been a subject of controversy, especially among Free Zone practitioners.
In July 2007, a re-release of all of Hubbard's basic books and tape recordings on Dianetics and Scientology was announced. The announcement was made in a speech given by David Miscavige and the Flag Land Base. In an almost three hour briefing he claimed that many errors had been found in previous versions of the books, and that a large-scale project was undertaken to locate the original dictaphone recordings and annotated transcriptions of the books and restore each work to its original form.[citation needed]
[edit] Terminology
On November 12, 1952, Hubbard explained in lecture "Precision Knowledge: Necessity to know terminology and law” the need to have precise terminology that cannot be confused with other words or definitions. He gave emphasis on avoidance of words that have many definitions and compared the language of Scientology with the language of Math and other precise doctrines.
Scientology and Dianetics place a heavy emphasis on understanding word definitions. Hubbard wrote a book entitled How to Use a Dictionary, in which he defined the methods of correcting "misunderstoods" (a Scientology term referring to a "misunderstood word or symbol"). It is believed in Scientology that complete understanding of a subject matter requires first complete understanding of the words of that subject matter. Hubbard also assembled the Technical Dictionary (ISBN 0-686-30803-4, ISBN 0-88404-037-2), a lexicon of hundreds of words, terms, and definitions that are used by Scientologists. Hubbard modified definitions for many existing English words, such as "clear" and "static." "Clear" was borrowed from early computer science during his 1948 research. He likened the human mind to a perfect computer that needed to be "cleared" of erroneous data enforced upon it from engrams or painful memories. Soon after the word "clear" as a noun meant a person who had attained such a state. He also coined many terms that are variants on standard English words, such as "enturbulate" and "havingness."
Critics of Scientology have accused Hubbard of "loading the language" and using Scientology jargon to keep Scientologists from interacting with information sources outside of Scientology (see cult for additional information).[32][33]
[edit] Interpretation and context
Scientology has a rigid doctrine which discourages secondary interpretation of its writings.[34] Students of Scientology are taught to direct others to those original sources, rather than to convey any interpretation of the concepts in their own words. Verbally discussing Scientology processes is referred to as "verbal tech," and is believed by Scientologists to ultimately interfere with the proper understanding (and consequently, the effectiveness) of the teachings.[citation needed] Scientology contends that the policy of forbidding secondary interpretation exists in order to keep its teachings unmodified, and to prevent students from passing on their misunderstandings to others.[citation needed] Emphasis is placed on keeping the writings in context.
[edit] Gradual learning
Scientologists believe that material must be learned in a definite order, never skipping to material which is overly complex before it is called for. The Church of Scientology published a particular sequence of study which must be followed in progression of Scientology.[citation needed] A Scientologist must receive the newer and higher levels only upon completion of the previous level. Scientology calls this concept a "gradient": breaking down a complicated idea into smaller pieces so that someone who could not grasp the whole idea at once can learn it piece by piece. One aspect which is taught in the gradient system is that if a person skips a gradient and is given material which is too high, they will endure physical harm. Scientologists say that approaching information on a gradient keeps people from becoming confused.[citation needed]
[edit] Auditing
Main article: Auditing (Scientology)
One central practice of Scientology is an activity known as auditing (listening) which seeks to elevate an adherent to a State of Clear, one of freedom from the influences of the reactive mind. The practice is one wherein a counselor called an auditor addresses a series of questions to a preclear, observes and records the preclear's responses, and acknowledges them. An important element in all forms of auditing is to not suggest answers to the preclear or invalidate or degrade what the preclear says in response. It is of utmost importance the auditor create a truly safe and distraction free environment for the session.
"Auditing" is seen by some[who?] as controversial, because auditing sessions are permanently recorded and stored within what are called Preclear Folders.
"Auditors" are required to become proficient with the use of their E-meters. A typical exercise in auditor training is to be able to determine the number a silent person is thinking of. A training simulator able to recreate all manner of E-meter reactions is used to assist in Auditor training.[citation needed] E-meters include circuitry for course training supervisors to communicate with an auditor who is in session.[original research?] Auditors do not receive final certification until they have successfully completed an internship, and have demonstrated and proven ability in the skills they have been trained in.[original research?] Auditors often practice their auditing with each other, as well as friends, or family. Church members pair up often to get their training, doing the same course at the same time, so that they can audit each other up through the various Scientology levels.
[edit] Marriage and sex
See also: Scientology and sex, Silent birth, and Scientology weddings
In the book The Science of Survival, in the Chart of Human Evaluation Hubbard said that a man high in the chart has a strong interest in sex and the rearing of children. But Hubbard also compared sex to a numb emotion in comparison with the joy of creation. Hubbard described the sex emotion as a strong attention unit similar to a strong applause. Also he warned about the aberrative qualities of sex being mostly composed of the desire to savagely take advantage of another thetan and be an effect instead of cause.[citation needed]
In 1982 Hubbard authored Pain and Sex, an official Scientology bulletin in which the biological act of sex and the body's ability to feel pain were announced to be "the invented tools of degradation" created by psychiatrists millions of years ago. According to Hubbard, "When sex enters the scene, a being fixates and loses power," and "Lovers are very seldom happy."[35]
The Church of Scientology describes marriage as "an essential component of a stable family life."[36] In 2005, a spokeswoman for the Church told the New York Daily News that the Church had "not taken an official position on gay marriage, and that members prefer not to talk about it."
Women are encouraged to be as silent as possible and avoid taking drugs during birth. They can only make sounds but must not utter any words, and neither must the birthing staff, unless absolutely necessary. Newborns are deemed especially vulnerable to induced engrams and trauma transmitted from their mother or acquired from their environment.
[edit] The body
See also: Purification Rundown
Scientology has a series of techniques called "assists" which are believed to alleviate injury, trauma or discomfort. These techniques used are based on the belief that the spirit can solve the body’s difficulties by putting the spirit in communication with the body.[citation needed]
Scientology oversees a program referred to as the "Purification Rundown", which is promoted as a method of "detoxification" developed by L. Ron Hubbard. It involves the use of saunas, exercise, vitamins, the drinking of oils, as well as light jogging. The Purification Rundown is usually the first step taken by a Scientologist attempting to attain a state of "Clear" and is promoted as a health regimen within Scientology and in Scientology's drug rehabilitation program Narconon.[citation needed]
[edit] Holidays
Main article: Scientology holidays
There are several holidays celebrated by Scientologists, notably L. Ron Hubbard's birthday in March, the Anniversary of the first publication of Dianetics in May, and Auditor's Day in September. Most official celebrations are scheduled on weekends as a convenience to members. Scientologists also celebrate secular holidays such as New Year's Eve, and other local celebrations.[37] Scientologists also celebrate religious holidays depending on other religious beliefs, as Scientologists very often retain their original affiliations with faiths in which they were raised.[38]
[edit] Controversy
[edit] Squirreling
The Church of Scientology has argued that unauthorized distribution of information about Scientology practices will create a risk of improper application.[citation needed] The Religious Technology Center has prosecuted and harassed individual breakaway groups that have practiced Scientology outside the official Church without authorization.[citation needed] The act of using Scientology techniques in a form different than originally described by Hubbard is referred to within Scientology as "squirreling", and is said by Scientologists to be a "high crime".[39]
[edit] Legal Waivers
The Church of Scientology requires that every member sign a legal waivers which covers their relationship with the Church of Scientology before engaging in Scientology services.[40][41]
[edit] See also
Scientology portal
Xenu
[edit] References
1. ^ a b c d e f Black, Alan W. (24 January 1996). "Is Scientology A Religion?". Church of Scientology. http://www.neuereligion.de/ENG/Black/index.htm (http://www.neuereligion.de/ENG/Black/index.htm).
2. ^ http://en.allexperts.com/q/Scientology- ... .htm?zIr=1 (http://en.allexperts.com/q/Scientology-1751/L-Ron-Hubbard-space.htm?zIr=1)
3. ^ "Scientology.org - Introduction to Scientology". Church of Scientology. http://www.scientology.org/en_US/religion/index.html (http://www.scientology.org/en_US/religion/index.html).
4. ^ "en.allexperts.com/q/Scientology-1751/L-Ron-Hubbard-space.htm?zIr=1". http://en.allexperts.com/q/Scientology- ... .htm?zIr=1 (http://en.allexperts.com/q/Scientology-1751/L-Ron-Hubbard-space.htm?zIr=1).
5. ^ "Road To Total Freedom". Panorama. 27 April 1987.
6. ^ Farley, Robert (6 May 2006). "Scientology nearly ready to unveil Super Power". St. Petersburg Times. http://www.sptimes.com/2006/05/06/Tampa ... _re.shtml/ (http://www.sptimes.com/2006/05/06/Tampabay/Scientology_nearly_re.shtml/). Retrieved 2008-12-07.
7. ^ Andrews, Stephen Pearl (1871). The Primary Synopsis of Universology and Alwato: The New Scientific Universal Language. New York: Dion Thomas. OCLC 3591669. http://books.google.com/books?id=WpwsVI ... =&as_brr=0 (http://books.google.com/books?id=WpwsVIfv5CcC&printsec=frontcover&dq=%22The+Primary+Synopsis+of+Universology+and+Alwato%22&lr=&as_brr=0). At p. xiii, "Scientology" is defined as "the Science of the Scientismus, or of that Secondary Department of Being, or Stage of Evolution, in which Scientism, the Spirit or Principle of Science (or of that which is analogous with Science) preponderates". (Google Books link)
8. ^ Allen Upward: The New Word, pp 139, 149 & 156
9. ^ Atack, Jon (1990). A Piece of Blue Sky. New York, NY: Carol Publishing Group. pp. 128. ISBN 0-8184-0499-X. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Library/Shel ... index.html (http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Library/Shelf/atack/index.html).
10. ^ a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s t u v w x y z aa ab Neusner, Jacob (2003). World Religions in America. Westminster John Knox Press. pp. 221–236. ISBN 0-664-22475-X.
11. ^ a b c d Chryssides, George D. (1999). Exploring New Religions. Continuum International Publishing Group. pp. 283. ISBN 0826459595.
12. ^ a b c d e Scientology An Analysis and Comparison of its Religious Systems and Doctrines, by Bryan Wilson, Ph.D., Emeritus Fellow, Oxford University
13. ^ a b c Melton, J. Gordon (2000). The Church of Scientology. Salt Lake City: Signature Press. pp. 32. ISBN 1-56085-139-2.
14. ^ a b c Part 2 of Scientology An Analysis and Comparison of its Religious Systems and Doctrines, by Bryan Wilson, Ph.D., Emeritus Fellow, Oxford University
15. ^ a b Book: World Religions in America by Jacob Neusner | page 228
16. ^ Melton, J. Gordon (2000). The Church of Scientology. Salt Lake City: Signature Press. pp. 25. ISBN 1-56085-139-2.
17. ^ a b web page 1 | The Road to Total Freedom A Sociological analysis of Scientology by ROY WALLIS
18. ^ Melton, J. Gordon (2000). The Church of Scientology. Salt Lake City: Signature Press. pp. 31. ISBN 1-56085-139-2.
19. ^ Melton, J. Gordon (2000). The Church of Scientology. Salt Lake City: Signature Press. pp. 33–34. ISBN 1-56085-139-2.
20. ^ Stephen A. Kent (September 2003). "Scientology and the European Human Rights Debate: A Reply to Leisa Goodman, J. Gordon Melton, and the European Rehabilitation Project Force Study". Marburg Journal of Religion 8 (1). http://archiv.ub.uni-marburg.de/mjr/kent3.html (http://archiv.ub.uni-marburg.de/mjr/kent3.html). Retrieved 2006-07-06.
21. ^ Science of Survival, p.128 L. Ron Hubbard 1951
22. ^ Introduction to New and Alternative Religions in America by Eugene V. Gallagher, W. Michael Ashcraft | page 176
23. ^ a b The Oxford Handbook of Religion and Emotion| page 132 | By John Corrigan
24. ^ a b "file.sunshinepress.org:54445/scientology-ot-levels.pdf" (PDF). http://file.sunshinepress.org:54445/sci ... levels.pdf (http://file.sunshinepress.org:54445/scientology-ot-levels.pdf).
25. ^ Reitman, Janet (23 February 2006). "Inside Scientology". Rolling Stone. http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/st ... logy/print (http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/9363363/inside_scientology/print). Retrieved 2008-12-11.
26. ^ a b c Melton, J. Gordon (2000). The Church of Scientology. Salt Lake City: Signature Press. pp. 33. ISBN 1-56085-139-2.
27. ^ Herrick, James A. (2004). The Making of the New Spirituality. Downers Grove, IL: InterVarsity Press. p. 199. ISBN 0830832793.
28. ^ a b c d e f Benjamin J. Hubbard, John T. Hatfield, James A. Santucci: An Educator's Classroom Guide to America's Religious Beliefs and Practices, pp. 91–92, ISBN 1591584094
29. ^ a b c d e f U. S. Department of the Army: Religious Requirements and Practices, VII 25 Page 3, ISBN 0898756073
30. ^ Welkos, Robert W.; Sappell, Joel (24 June 1990). "Church Scriptures Get High-Tech Protection". Los Angeles Times. http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-sc ... 3097.story (http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-scientologysided062490,0,7493097.story). Retrieved 2008-10-26.
31. ^ Playing Dirty:The Secret War Against Beliefs, Omar V. Garrison, 1980
32. ^ Branch, Craig (1997). "Applied Scientology In Public Schools?". The Watchman Expositor. http://www.watchman.org/sci/appliedscientology.htm (http://www.watchman.org/sci/appliedscientology.htm). Retrieved 2007-01-11.
33. ^ Wakefield, Margery (1991). Understanding Scientology. Coalition of Concerned Citizens. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Library/Shel ... ld/us.html (http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Library/Shelf/wakefield/us.html).
34. ^ Book: World Religions in America By Jacob Neusner, page 230
35. ^ Hubbard, Pain and Sex, HCOB, 26 August 1982
36. ^ "Scientology Weddings: Frequently Asked Questions". http://www.beliefnet.com/story/204/story_20431_1.html (http://www.beliefnet.com/story/204/story_20431_1.html).
37. ^ http://www.scientology.org/wis/wiseng/39/39-idx.htm (http://www.scientology.org/wis/wiseng/39/39-idx.htm)
38. ^ http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/10/31/christ ... index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/10/31/christian.scientology/index.html)
39. ^ Welkos, Robert W.; Sappell, Joel (29 June 1990). "When the Doctrine Leaves the Church". Los Angeles Times. http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-sc ... 4659.story (http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-scientology062990b,0,4204659.story). Retrieved 2008-08-24.
40. ^ Friedman, Roger (3 September 2003). "Will Scientology Celebs Sign 'Spiritual' Contract?". FOX News. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,96299,00.html#1 (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,96299,00.html#1). Retrieved 2008-12-07.
41. ^ Touretzky, David S. (1 December 2003). "A Church's Lethal Contract". Razor Magazine. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Scientology/ ... -2003.html (http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Scientology/ReleaseForms/archive/razor-article-2003.html). Retrieved 2008-12-07.
[edit] External links
Search Wikinews Wikinews has related Scientology news:
* November 19: Senator Xenophon of Australia calls for criminal investigation into Scientology
* November 13: Blown for Good author discusses life inside international headquarters of Scientology
* November 5: New book Blown for Good reveals details inside Scientology headquarters
* November 3: Scientology website hacked
Church sites
* Description of Scientology Auditing
* What is Scientology
* Official E-Meter Site
* Past Lives
* Scientology Volunteer Ministers Corps
* The founder of Scientology auditing
* Grade chart of Scientology courses, training and processing
Articles
* ^ Frank K. Flinn, Ph.D.'s opinion of Scientology; marked as "Shocking Discrimination"
* An interview with Catholic Frank K. Flinn, Adjunct Professor of Religious Studies
Other sites
* Scientology: Beliefs and Practices links from Yahoo directory
* Operation Clambake: Main
* Secrets of Scientology
* Free zone E-Meters at the Open Directory Project
* Scientology Kills
* Scientology Lies
* Protest and Abuse Information
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Attention group, we have spotted Whooter and are really hoping he will make it back here. So everyone try and make him feel welcome.
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Whooter, I know you're out there. I know you want to hide in any way you can from this situation, but you have to trust that it is what is best for you.
Come on back... You can do it.
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He's too busy lashing out and acting out he needs to be locked in a room for a while and humiliated. Oh, wait that's his whole life in a nut-shell, right there.
Boooo-hoooo-whooooooter.
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He's too busy lashing out and acting out he needs to be locked in a room for a while and humiliated. Oh, wait that's his whole life in a nut-shell, right there.
Boooo-hoooo-whooooooter.
No, he does not need to be locked in a room or humiliated. That is not the experience he will have with me. He has run, he is defiant, but we don't know for sure what he's been up to while he's been gone. I hope he will let us in on that. He needs to know this is a safe place for him to open up.
We want you back Whooter.
Patients history:
Whooter has decided to run away from the program. Under the presuppositions of his decisions he is likening his actions to “… a program runaway in which the choice to leave therapy is also a choice to be a fugitive of the law and being individually responsible for anything that might happen to you as a result (being raped, murdered, homeless, kidnapped etc.)
Patient has withdrawn from the therapeutic environment, a sign of their lack of conviction for their position that therapy should be forced on people. His actions suggest that he supports a therapeutic environment in which the patient has a right to choose. His/her withdraw from the environment can be related to a teen who must run away from a program to avoid treatment yet not be able to trust his parents to call home for help. Their actions further label them as "troubled' which support the therapist view that the patient needs treatment. Failure to progress is solely blamed on the patient. Therapists procedure is a success, paid for service, the outcome verified the pretense for therapy and the beliefs of the program, patient has acted to discredit himself publicly, and upon leaving creates room for new business
Ok, attention group, Whooter has decided to run. We all know what kind of dangerous consequences this behavior can result in, so I want you to stay together and be supportive ok?
Transcript of call to Whooters’ parents: “ Yeah he was very resistant to therapy, in fact he would not respond to me whatsoever, but don’t worry, we know how to handle it, there are only so many places he can go. We’ll find him and get through to him, don’t worry.”
Sorry to potential patients interested in getting something out of this. Its hard to watch someone go down a bad road. Hopefully you can learn from the bad choices they are making.
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I think this thread/program represents an appropriate analog of the double bind kids are subjected to in the TTI. viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30423&hilit=double+bind%3A+mind+control (http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30423&hilit=double+bind%3A+mind+control)
The results support how programs maintain the illusion of success. (A huge difference being Whooter chose to enter this program of his own free will and with informed consent as the process was clearly stated at the top of the thread.) … though this little website is hardly capable of the level of control required for a thought reform environment as in the troubled teen industry. viewtopic.php?f=81&t=31447 (http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=81&t=31447)
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I think this thread/program represents an appropriate analog of the double bind kids are subjected to in the TTI. viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30423&hilit=double+bind%3A+mind+control (http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30423&hilit=double+bind%3A+mind+control)
The results support how programs maintain the illusion of success. (A huge difference being Whooter chose to enter this program of his own free will and with informed consent as the process was clearly stated at the top of the thread.) … though this little website is hardly capable of the level of control required for a thought reform environment as in the troubled teen industry. viewtopic.php?f=81&t=31447 (http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=81&t=31447)
:tup: :tup:
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Sounds like forced education and forced therapy.
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What would fornits do without che's constant stream of porn and disgusting photos?
...
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What would fornits do without che's constant stream of porn and disgusting photos?
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Whooter, I know you have issues with Che, but can I ask why you decided not to stick with the program? I think giving up on yourself like that has a lot to do with why you are the way you are around here.
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bump ???
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(did something abusive happen here? why is whooter avoiding this thread?)
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(did something abusive happen here? why is whooter avoiding this thread?)
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One of the misconceptions is that since many of the kids going to these programs are not thrilled about it, not bought into it or didn’t want to go at all then that means that the therapy they receive during their stay there is considered "forced".
No, most of the kids that are forced into this "therapy" don't need it. They're, for the most part, normal teens going thru the cutting the apron strings and finding themselves. Many of the parents can't accept that their child isn't a carbon copy of themselves or aren't growing into what the parents want them to. I've said before that our job is not to turn our kids into what WE want them to be.....it's our job to help them develop into what THEY want to be.
This isn’t the case. In almost all circumstances the child ends up embracing the therapeutic process within a very short time.
Because they find out very quickly that if they don't, there are serious punishments dealt to them.
I think we would be hard pressed to find many teenagers who approach their parents and ask to see a therapist. If this is true than any teenager who is in therapy is being forced into it and thereby being abused by therapists around the world. Should therapy be withheld until the child becomes an adult and can clearly think for themselves? What about the kids that take their own life? Should we have insisted on a therapist forcing abuse on them with the hope the child would live or just let the child go their own path and allow them to die?
There is a BIG difference between a suicidal child and a normal, rebellious teen. A suicidal child needs true help, not the 'break them down, build them up' crap that programs push.
Have you ever attended an initial swim lesson for young children and then revisted a month later? These kids were not abused because they didnt want to get wet initially. They are happy and enjoying themselves even though a month earlier they were resistant. The word "abuse" is Way overused here on this forum and in 90% of the cases the word "uncomfortable" could be used in its place.
There you go with your insipid analogies again. Apples to oranges. Swimming lessons don't delve into the psyche of the child. Swimming lessons don't teach the child that they're 'bad' and that their "problem" is either drugs or themselves.
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No, most of the kids that are forced into this "therapy" don't need it. They're, for the most part, normal teens going thru the cutting the apron strings and finding themselves. Many of the parents can't accept that their child isn't a carbon copy of themselves or aren't growing into what the parents want them to. I've said before that our job is not to turn our kids into what WE want them to be.....it's our job to help them develop into what THEY want to be.
If it were just normal teenage stuff then the whole country would be going to programs (we all know this not to be the case). There are very few kids who do not respond well to local services and therefore require the need for a program.
Because they find out very quickly that if they don't, there are serious punishments dealt to them.
There are no serious punishments for not attending therapy. This is typically optional and is discussed prior to the child entering.
There is a BIG difference between a suicidal child and a normal, rebellious teen. A suicidal child needs true help, not the 'break them down, build them up' crap that programs push.
Exactly, I think we can agree here. Parents need to find the right program for their child.
There you go with your insipid analogies again. Apples to oranges. Swimming lessons don't delve into the psyche of the child. Swimming lessons don't teach the child that they're 'bad' and that their "problem" is either drugs or themselves.
Neither do programs so they analogy does work well. Programs work to build self esteem and rebuild family relations. I have seen this first hand, I am sorry that this did not work out that way for you, Anne.
...
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from viewtopic.php?f=9&t=31769&start=180 (http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=31769&start=180)
Whooter, I have seen you making insinuations about others that they are narrow minded. And you’d be right in thinking that it’s not quite the case when you’re willing put yourself in the shoes of a troubled teen. Do you think you yourself could open up a bit more to that? I had been asking you a question awhile ago, maybe you are willing to answer it now.
I was wondering, why did you need to run from your therapy and not decide to stick with your program? Couldn’t opening up to it have helped you attain a bit of perspective?
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=29442&hilit=education+about+forced+therapy (http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=29442&hilit=education+about+forced+therapy)
.
Granted, Initially the kids are forced into the therapeutic process but most of them eventually embrace it if they connect and get along with their therapist. So it is consensual and the child benefits from it the same way an adult would. The only difference is that the child doesn't consent at the onset.
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It sounds like you are saying you didn't open up enough to give this a chance. Do you think it's possible that some of the negative sentiment to you on this board has something to do with you being closed off to their experience? I hear your sentiment there, and see it as better for your awareness for you not to avoid it. Down deep I think you feel this experience would have been good for you if you were willing to open up a bit.
.
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If it were just normal teenage stuff then the whole country would be going to programs (we all know this not to be the case). There are very few kids who do not respond well to local services and therefore require the need for a program.
There's enough that the TTI has grown over the years.
There are no serious punishments for not attending therapy. This is typically optional and is discussed prior to the child entering.
Bullshit! Programs tell the parents that if they don't enroll their kids they'll DIE! Then when the kid does get inside, he learns very quickly to conform because he sees what happens to those who don't.
Exactly, I think we can agree here. Parents need to find the right program for their child.
Why is your answer always a program? How 'bout parents just doing their damn job in the first place?
There you go with your insipid analogies again. Apples to oranges. Swimming lessons don't delve into the psyche of the child. Swimming lessons don't teach the child that they're 'bad' and that their "problem" is either drugs or themselves.
Neither do programs so they analogy does work well. Programs work to build self esteem and rebuild family relations.
:roflmao: :roflmao: Yeah, as long as the kid is doing exactly as told. If they stray from program thinking, they're basically shunned from the family. You should be familiar with it. It's called an "Exit Plan". If the kid does something the parents don't like, they're out on the street.
I have seen this first hand,
No you haven't. You've seen the conformists that come out of programs. You've never been on the inside and have no idea how they "accomplish" what they do.
I am sorry that this did not work out that way for you, Anne.
Yeah, right. ::)
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Bullshit! Programs tell the parents that if they don't enroll their kids they'll DIE! Then when the kid does get inside, he learns very quickly to conform because he sees what happens to those who don't.
No, actually the programs are very realistic with the parents and let them know what to expect. If the therapy isnt working then the childs therapist communicates this to the childs therapist at home. They review the progress and decide how to proceed. There are punishments for many things but not for therapy.
Why is your answer always a program? How 'bout parents just doing their damn job in the first place?
My answer isnt always programs. You know as well as everyone that I support local services first. If local services fail then the family has to look elsewhere. Saying parents would have done a better job is hindsight, it isnt going to help the child today.
:roflmao: :roflmao: Yeah, as long as the kid is doing exactly as told. If they stray from program thinking, they're basically shunned from the family. You should be familiar with it. It's called an "Exit Plan". If the kid does something the parents don't like, they're out on the street.
The only place I have heard "Exit Plan" is here on fornits. No one is going to shun a child because of their decisions. If parents were going to shun them then why didnt they do it in the first place and save all that money? lol Parents who put in the effort like program parents do will continue to be committed to their family.
No you haven't. You've seen the conformists that come out of programs. You've never been on the inside and have no idea how they "accomplish" what they do.
Neither have you, Anne. Your only experience is 30 or more years ago in a program that is closed down. I have see the results of todays programs first hand.
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No, actually the programs are very realistic with the parents and let them know what to expect. If the therapy isnt working then the childs therapist communicates this to the childs therapist at home.
And put the entire blame on the kids, not in any way the program itself.
They review the progress and decide how to proceed. There are punishments for many things but not for therapy.
There are definitely punishments for not following programs versions of therapy.
My answer isnt always programs. You know as well as everyone that I support local services first. If local services fail then the family has to look elsewhere. Saying parents would have done a better job is hindsight, it isnt going to help the child today.
So many parents today, even more than when I was in, fall for the fearmongering - i.e. "your kid will be deadinsaneorinjail if you don't enroll them or if you pull them".
The only place I have heard "Exit Plan" is here on fornits. No one is going to shun a child because of their decisions.
Probably not until the program gets ahold of them. Then they're programmed/conditioned to kick the child out and give them no help whatsoever, unless it's going back into a program, if they're not following the exact rules.
Neither have you, Anne. Your only experience is 30 or more years ago in a program that is closed down. I have see the results of todays programs first hand.
Again, you have no idea what experience I have about programs today. I've been inside programs and seen the exact same shit that was done to us.....mainly the LGAT-type crap. Break 'em down to build 'em up. These places fuck with a kid's psyche....their very core and especially at the time when they're trying to figure out who they are separate from their parents. You get a skiddish or controlling parent and programs seems like the answer.
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Whooter it sounds like you are being resistant to what Anne is saying. If you let down your guard a bit you might actually be able to take away something positive for yourself.
You have made a great first step here in deciding to re-commit yourself to your program. Do you want to talk about what’s been going on with you lately?
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And put the entire blame on the kids, not in any way the program itself.
Back in your day maybe, today it is viewed as a family issue.
There are definitely punishments for not following programs versions of therapy.
Maybe so. We would have to view what the consequences are.
So many parents today, even more than when I was in, fall for the fearmongering - i.e. "your kid will be deadinsaneorinjail if you don't enroll them or if you pull them".
No, not really.
Probably not until the program gets ahold of them. Then they're programmed/conditioned to kick the child out and give them no help whatsoever, unless it's going back into a program, if they're not following the exact rules.
Geesh, I am sorry you had to go through all of that. Its not the way it is today.
Again, you have no idea what experience I have about programs today. I've been inside programs and seen the exact same shit that was done to us.....mainly the LGAT-type crap. Break 'em down to build 'em up. These places fuck with a kid's psyche....their very core and especially at the time when they're trying to figure out who they are separate from their parents. You get a skiddish or controlling parent and programs seems like the answer.
You have no idea what experience I have had either. Programs I am familiar with build the kids up and work on self esteem issues and family bonds. I dont think you have been in one of these programs or met any of their graduates.
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Back in your day maybe, today it is viewed as a family issue.
Yeah, that's what they told us too.
There are definitely punishments for not following programs versions of therapy.
Maybe so. We would have to view what the consequences are.
Those of us who've been on the inside know very well what the punishments are.
So many parents today, even more than when I was in, fall for the fearmongering - i.e. "your kid will be deadinsaneorinjail if you don't enroll them or if you pull them".
No, not really.
Yeah, really.
Probably not until the program gets ahold of them. Then they're programmed/conditioned to kick the child out and give them no help whatsoever, unless it's going back into a program, if they're not following the exact rules.
Geesh, I am sorry you had to go through all of that. Its not the way it is today.
Oh yeah it is.
Again, you have no idea what experience I have about programs today. I've been inside programs and seen the exact same shit that was done to us.....mainly the LGAT-type crap. Break 'em down to build 'em up. These places fuck with a kid's psyche....their very core and especially at the time when they're trying to figure out who they are separate from their parents. You get a skiddish or controlling parent and programs seems like the answer.
You have no idea what experience I have had either.
I know you've never been inside as a "student/patient/client", so you really only know what the programs are telling you.
Programs I am familiar with build the kids up and work on self esteem issues and family bonds. I dont think you have been in one of these programs or met any of their graduates.
You are so wrong about that.
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There are no serious punishments for not attending therapy.
This quote shows astounding ignorance of how programs work and operate.
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Geesh, I am sorry you had to go through all of that. Its not the way it is today.
So let's work on yourself and see what might be different from then? Are you ready to get back to working on those self esteem issues of yours Whooter? Let's get it up to where it needs to be. Why don't you just start by telling me how you are doing? if you are not to threatened by my asking.
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Those of us who've been on the inside know very well what the punishments are.
So since you admit you have never been inside any program except straight you have no idea if kids are punished or not in these other programs.
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Whooter, you want to talk about everyone and everything but YOURSELF. I understand that is a good way to hide from yourself, but this is a place for you to work on your issues. Step out of your square! What’s the harm in that? What would happen if you were to open up a little bit and let us know what kind of person Whooter really is?
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