Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Straight, Inc. and Derivatives => Topic started by: Anonymous on November 19, 2009, 11:13:19 PM
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is a survivor really getting sued? I cannot beleive this. This was just a threat, never followed through on? Yes?
http://www.calgarysun.com/news/alberta/ ... tml#medium (http://www.calgarysun.com/news/alberta/2009/08/19/10510986-sun.html#medium)
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According to Kevin Martin, the Sun received a copy of the statement of claim. Harry Chase, the opposition member who attempted to call the provincial government to account regarding AARC has stated in no uncertain terms that no elected officials are willing to do anything about AARC, and Chase went so far as to say that individuals would have to pursue resolution of the issues related to AARC through the courts.
Here is the last official discussion of AARC in the legislature:
"Mr. Chase: Thank you. From 1998-1999 to 2008-2009 the Alberta
adolescent recovery program, AARC, has received just over $2.8
million from the Alberta lottery fund. To the Minister of Culture
and Community Spirit: howcan the minister justifygiving that much
money to an unlicensed, unregulated, nonmedically accredited,
nonresidential addictions treatment program?
Mr. Blackett: Mr. Speaker, if the applicant group meets the criteria
that are set out by our department and is approved, then they are set
for it. If you want to ask about the specifics of their medical
qualification or the necessity, then ask the minister of health that
question. 2:40
The Deputy Speaker: The hon. member.
Mr. Chase: Thank you. The minister of health, the Minister of
Children and Youth Services, the minister of municipal affairs and
housing have all ignored my question. I appreciate your taking it on.
Now, what oversight, what grant evaluation standards did the
minister apply for the allocation of these funds? What are your
criteria that recognize this institution?
Mr. Blackett: Mr. Speaker, let’s be clear. The minister does not
provide the criteria. The minister does not overview or review these
applications. There are staff that are hired in our department that go
over that, and there’s a series of criteria that is available on our
website. If you want it, go and find it there.
The Deputy Speaker: The hon. member.
Mr. Chase: Thank you very much. This government does not
appear to be concerned about governance, especially of addicted,
vulnerable youth. Has the minister ever visited AARC before the
funds were disbursed to this program?
Mr. Blackett: Mr. Speaker, the answer to that question is no. We
have in some of our programs 1,550 recipients; another one, a
thousand recipients. Do you honestly think that in 365 days I’d be
able to go and visit every one of those applicants? Let’s be serious."
http://www.assembly.ab.ca/Documents/isy ... /doc/#hit1 (http://www.assembly.ab.ca/Documents/isysquery/c0bdc395-9818-4a1f-be92-60f18bb2d20a/22/doc/#hit1)
So MLA Heather Forsyth was claiming that children would be sent to AARC rather than referred to a regulated, licensed organization, and Minister Blackett thinks it's a joke to ask who oversees the disbursement of almost 3 million dollars to this facility.
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Allegations spark lawsuit
Drug program suing ex-patient
By KEVIN MARTIN, SUN MEDIA
Allegations of mental and sexual abuse by a Calgary youth drug treatment centre graduate have landed her a $1-million libel lawsuit.
The Alberta Adolescent Recovery Centre has filed legal action against former patient Christine Lunn, who appeared on the CBC show the Fifth Estate last February.
"Lunn engaged in an interview or series of interviews with the Canadian Broadcast Corporation ... where she made various false statements," their statement of claim says.
The court action, a copy of which was obtained yesterday by the Sun, says Lunn also made on-line postings disparaging AARC and its executive director, Dean Vause.
In her CBC interview, which remains posted on the Fifth Estate website, Lunn claimed she had been sexually abused by a centre "oldcomer" the name given recovering AARC residents assigned to oversee newcomers.
"They said that I had made the whole thing up, that he wouldn't have done that because he was an oldcomer," she told the news magazine show.
Lunn said she was forced to retract the allegation in writing or face being demoted in the residential treatment program and taking even longer to get out of the program.
"Lunn was not sexually abused," the defamation lawsuit says.
"Lunn did not tell AARC about any sexual abuse incidence and consequently, AARC did not label her a liar,"
The claim says prior to her most recent comments Lunn was a supporter of the program, from which she graduated in January, 1997, even conducting voluntary speaking engagements to Calgary students.
A statement of defence challenging the claim has not yet been filed.
KEVIN.MARTIN@SUNMEDIA.CA
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The case looks very weak at best and in my opinion, laughable. This is a simple case of the cult intimidating cult opponents. I don't see AARC proving 1 million in losses directly due to CL's testimony alone... in fact, I don't see how they could prove 1 penny of loss due to CL's testimony. I would love to hear Phil Elberg's opinions as an expert witness in this case about how these programs commonly use tactics such as labeling all program kids as liars and manipulators. Actually, I think Dean Vause said it himself on the "Powerless" piece about Rachael.
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The court action, a copy of which was obtained yesterday by the Sun, says Lunn also made on-line postings disparaging AARC and its executive director, Dean Vause.
Does anyone know where she was posting these remarks against AARC? I dont think they were posted here on fornits because Ajax13 has been making remarks for years. Ajax13 has written much more than Chistine Lunn ever did against AARC here on fornits, he said kids were raped and abused at AARC, nicknamed Vause "TheWiz" and dragged his family into the light by making fun of his son playing hockey and calling family members obese and tried to discredit the mans educational back ground by saying the university he attended for his PhD was unaccredited and saying Vause is nothing but a Gym teacher just to mention a few, but Ajax13 was never taken to court. So I dont think AARC reads here, was Chistine Lunn posting on HEAL or one of the other web sites does anyone know? Just curious.
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So those claims about your criminal history are true, Johnny?
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I for one would contribute to a defense fund. AARC does not need to win a lawsuit, but can bankrupt with lawyers fees just about anyone. That is how they roll. However, they must be nervous about the fact that in the discovery portion of a suit, their files would be opened. I doubt they want that.
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AARC included in their statement of claim a threat to get a court order to seize computers in order to get at e-mails that would indicate who was spilling what beans. Statements of claim were filed against more than one former client. It would seem that AARC is intent on making an example of these people in order to prevent more former clients from coming forward with accounts of their experiences in the unlicensed, unregulated, treatment program operated by the sect.
A quick perusal of Martin's article shows that he refers to AARC as a residential treatment facility, and the cliens as residents. This seems to be in stark contrast to Minister Tarchuk's claim that her office oversees only residential facilities and is thus not responsible for AARC. The implication here of course, is that as a residential facility there must be some oversight, when AARC in reality uses the tried and true Seed, Straight, Kids host home scam, where there is no oversight of client safety whatsoever. The Sun has been complicit for years in propagating AARC bullshit, in particular their fatuous 85% success rate.
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Statements of claim were filed against more than one former client. It would seem that AARC is intent on making an example of these people in order to prevent more former clients from coming forward with accounts of their experiences in the unlicensed, unregulated, treatment program operated by the sect.
It may be a combination of making an example of a few people and also to get a feel for how sympathetic the court is towards them and if it would be worth going after other people. They will never get the full million but they could garnish wages and future assets allowing the defendant to move on with their lives and at least afford an apartment and a comfortable living.
A quick perusal of Martin's article shows that he refers to AARC as a residential treatment facility, and the cliens as residents. This seems to be in stark contrast to Minister Tarchuk's claim that her office oversees only residential facilities and is thus not responsible for AARC. The implication here of course, is that as a residential facility there must be some oversight, when AARC in reality uses the tried and true Seed, Straight, Kids host home scam, where there is no oversight of client safety whatsoever.
The nomenclature one uses sometimes is driven by the audience you are presenting to. If you recall the GEO hearings non of the presenters referred to the programs as Gulags or teen prisons, prison guards, but those descriptions are used here on fornits. The survivors who spoke on fifth estate never described AARC as a cult, why was that? If they really felt it was a cult or a Gulag then that is how they should present it.
The Sun has been complicit for years in propagating AARC bullshit, in particular their fatuous 85% success rate.
So now the media is corrupt? But when the media says negative things about the industry or a program then they are telling the truth lol? Ajax13 if you recall it took 12 pages of posting to explain just the basic use of “tables” in the AARC study and even then you couldn’t speak to it very well. You never got close to understanding the statistical piece of it.
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The court documents show that C. Lunn was a shill for AARC for a few years after graduation. Did everyone here know this?
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Lazy ol' Reuben, the court documents don't show anything other than claims made by AARC. The statement of claim is not a presentation of evidence.
End game for you, Johnny. That criminal history of yours is going public with Correlsense, and STICC.
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The claim says prior to her most recent comments Lunn was a supporter of the program, from which she graduated in January, 1997, even conducting voluntary speaking engagements to Calgary students.
Whoops, forgot to read that part? lol I think fornits calls that being a shill for the industry.
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I read this part:
Cool, let's talk about your extensive criminal record. Personally, I wouldn't take advice from a criminal like you and I don't think anyone else would either. You're a fraud. You don't disclose your criminal record and act like you are the most moral of the people here, but now we know you're nothing but a reprobate. Tell us about your arrest for inappropriate sexual contact with a minor. Discuss.
Don't forget he's a common criminal as well:
I was arrested several times in Boston...
Funny, so was John Reuben. He was arrested several times in Boston as well. On the same dates TheWho was arrested. Coincidence? Hardly.
Anyway, why would any parent entrust their child's welfare to John Reuben, an admitted criminal with an extensive arrest record including public intoxication and destruction of property, who openly refers to the most abusive family of programs, Aspen Education, who had half of their programs in Oregon forcibly shut down by state investigators for murdering, abusing and neglecting children in their care, including sexualized humiliation by forcing little girls to give lap dances to and perform simulated felatio on their unlicensed, uneducated couselors?
Think about this, parents, before you make the biggest mistake of your and your kid's life.
Let's hear your explanation about why you attack everyone else's credibility when you are a convicted criminal. Why do you have an FBI number? Are you a spousal abuser, child molester or convicted felon? Why are you barred from owning a firearm, Whooter? My wife does the NCICS checks for handgun permits at the county sheriff's office and guess "who"se name comes right up as "restricted"? Please explain to the readers why you are concealing your extensive criminal record, Whooter.
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Oh No!! All of a sudden Ajax13 wants to wait for the outcome of a trial before casting judgment on someone. Ajax13 is pleading to the masses to allow him to use the double standard just this once!! Lol Programs are always guilty before there is any trial according to our friend Ajax13… they settle out of court (which proves they are guilty in Ajax13’s and others book)… lets see what C Lunn does shall we? Do you think she will fold to the allegations and settle or stand up and back up her words?
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There's that criminal record popping up again... :eek:
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To the very end, lazy ol' Reuben resorts to a very poorly thought-out specious analogy. The Sun says AARC is a residential facility after Minister Tarchuk specifically says that it is not residential. Not quite the same thing as people using or not using a given term to describe something. And Johnny, a former staffer said that AARC brought to mind a religious concentration camp on the Fith Estate program. But Johnny, you've always walked that lazy walk. What are the boys at Correlsense going to say when they see that arrest record, Johnny boy?
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The Sun says AARC is a residential facility after Minister Tarchuk specifically says that it is not residential
And many here call AARC a cult, still others a Gulag or Prison. So that is 5 descriptions..... is the Sun right? The minister? or various fornits posters? or all of the above? lol Is C Lunn innocent until proven guilty or is she an industry Shill as alledged..... does he wait for the court outcome? or will he have to back peddle on his other allegations to avoid a double standard......Or side with the allegations...tick...tick...tick...
Ajax13 walks a fine line to avoid the double standard.
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Johnny, caught again being too lazy to write something coherent. Reminds me of when you said that a semi-independent study was the same as an independent study. Just like it's okay for a pilot to be conscious, or semi-conscious. Same thing, right, Johnny? The Minister who oversees residential facilities for children in care in the province said very specifically that AARC was not a residential facility, and the Sun then claimed that it was. AARC was using Christine Lunn to sell their program while she was still a client, and according to AARC being held in AARC by court order. I saw the promo on CFCN back in '97. In fact, AARC uses every single client to sell their program, as they are all required to attend AARC's fundraising beg-a-thons. Now back to you Johnny, and what's going to happen with your criminal record vis-a-vis your employer, whom you linked to your fraulent work with STICC. How long until the Correlsense boys see that criminal history, Reuben? Right to the bitter end you're just inadequate.
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The Sun says AARC is a residential facility after Minister Tarchuk specifically says that it is not residential
And many here call AARC a cult, still others a Gulag or Prison. So that is 5 descriptions..... is the Sun right? The minister? or various fornits posters? or all of the above? lol Is C Lunn innocent until proven guilty or is she an industry Shill as alledged..... does he wait for the court outcome? or will he have to back peddle on his other allegations to avoid a double standard......Or side with the allegations...tick...tick...tick...
Ajax13 walks a fine line to avoid the double standard.
Oh No,Ajax13 choose "non residential" and threw fornits posters under the bus lol.. so it cant be a gulag or a prison since people leave at the end of the day no prison guards? or Cult?....... and we agree that C Lunn did shill (fundraiser) for AARC after graduation.
The Ajax13 Bike (http://http://diannej.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/backpedaling34.jpg)
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Lazy ol' Reuben, you must have been in jail the day they taught the difference between synonyms and antonyms in school. Residential is the antonym of non-residential, whereas gulag can be synonamous with prison. Hard to tell if you're dumber than you are lazy, Johnny boy. The minister who oversees residential facilities for children, Janice Tarchuk said that AARC was non-residential in her abdication of responsibility for overseeing AARC. The Sun then claimed the exact opposite status for AARC, claiming that it was residential. Now of course we don't agree that C. Lunn did fundraisers for AARC after graduation, since as far as I know she did not. Feel free to embrace that unsubstantiated allegation if you wish, Reuben.
Now here's part of a definition for shill that describes both the AARC clients and you, John D. Reuben of STICC and soon to be formerly of Correlsense:
"Shills are often employed by confidence artists."
But this part only applies to you, Johnny:
"Shill" can also be used pejoratively to describe a critic who appears either all-too-eager to heap glowing praise upon mediocre offerings, or who acts as an apologist for glaring flaws. In this sense, they would be an implicit "shill" for the industry at large, possibly because their income is tied to its prosperity.
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Residential is the antonym of non-residential, whereas gulag can be synonamous with prison
"Shill" can also be used pejoratively to describe a critic who appears either all-too-eager to heap glowing praise upon mediocre offerings, or who acts as an apologist for glaring flaws. In this sense, they would be an implicit "shill" for the industry at large, possibly because their income is tied to its prosperity.
You are coming along ,Ajax13, I am proud of you. Yes words can have several meanings. People can view the exact same situation differently and its good you found a definition that makes you feel a little better about C Lunns shilling. Also remember that I may see a program as a Therapeutic boarding school while others see it as a gulag. Some see it as a residential treatment facility while others see it as a prison.
You seem to have it bad for this guy Johnny. You should try to get up the courage someday to confront him with how you feel. This seems to be your MO. You talk to strangers about Vause instead of to his face... the same with Heather, you ask questions about her intents to others but are afraid to ask her... and now you have moved on to Reuben. If I were you I would man up and speak directly with them. What are you afraid of?
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I'm not sure that your arguments are that effective here, Johnny. You're posting in a forum for discussions of Straight and it's descendent programs. Since AARC is one of the last ones operating, with the demise of KHK, PFC, SAFE and Growing Together in the last few years, anyone hoping to defend this particular phenomenon has quite a struggle on their hands. The New Jersey Law Journal cited Phil Elberg's demolition of AARC's parent Kids, as an example of how to take on a cult in court. Never forget that AARC is Kids of the Canadian West, renamed. I've got a host home manual from AARC, and you can find a copy online if you look, that clearly shows that AARC uses it's clients as sales tools. We saw on the Fifth Estate that Rachael O'Neill was admitted to AARC in spite of a licensed healthcare worker, paid by AARC, who said that she did not have a substance dependency. AARC has no operating license, it uses a host home system that prompted closures of Straight programs and the end of the Seed's treatment of minors, and it's counselling staff is made up of unlicensed former clients, with the exception of the Executive Director, who came from the Kids cult, and is also an unlicensed amateur quack.
But somehow, John D. Reuben, educational consultant, you're going to convince people that folks who are criticizing AARC are wrong, even though you literally couldn't find AARC on a map, and you didn't know the difference between Vancouver WA. and Vancouver BC.
You are going to be fired from Correlsense Johnny, because they are going to get your criminal record, along with info about Aspen, and then they're going to get a random assortment of your Fornits work. After you're fired, it will remain to be seen whether you get sued, and whether or not Correlsense audits all of your activities involving their money. It would appear likely that jail is in your future, Johnny.
Could this program be spun, against all of that negative information? Possibly Reuben, but certainly not by someone as entirely inadequate as you.
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A long response to cover up the question of whether you intend to contact this Reuben guy or continue to ask questions on an open forum. I think if Reuben, Heather or Dr. Vause ever knocked on your door to discuss this face to face you would crap yourself and run. You hide in the shadows and discuss these people to a forum of guests with no intent of getting an answer from any of them.
I will continue to try to dissect your posts and answer what is relevant or directed towards myself.
If I think I can answer for Reuben, Vause or Heather I will give it a shot. But you are better off directing your questions to them.
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I was unaware that you had been dissecting my posts. What I read was you claiming that Heather Forsyth's four stages of addiction were 5 levels of drug use. Then you claimed that you knew whether or not Rachael O'Neill was drug free after leaving AARC, and then you made some nonsensical claim about her checking in. Then you said she was doing well after AARC, even though one can plainly hear her state that she now suffers flashbacks and nightmares. Then you said that court documents showed that Christine L was a shill for AARC. You claimed that Janice Tarchuk denying responsibility for AARC when she stated specifically that AARC was non-residential and the Sun then stating that AARC was residential was the same as someone making an analogy. This, in addition to your history of such bizarre failures as not knowing that Calgary was a city within the province of Alberta, and not knowing that Vancouver BC was not the same as Vancouver WA.
Here's a suggestion Johnny. If you want to dissect something, try using a scalpel instead of a handful of shit. Metaphorically speaking.
You'll have plenty of time to work on your non-existent abilities once you're fired from Correlsense, and either sitting at home or lounging in jail.
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I was unaware that you had been dissecting my posts.
There are many posts to read here and you might not have noticed. If your question is directed at Reuben, Vause or Heather etc. then I try to avoid it unless I have the answer or can add some light.
What I read was you claiming that Heather Forsyth's four stages of addiction were 5 levels of drug use.
Exactly and the way we left it is if you heard from Heather we could compare her 4 Stages to the ones used by Mental Health professionals here in the States. Until she pipes in we at least have something on the table.
Then you claimed that you knew whether or not Rachael O'Neill was drug free after leaving AARC, and then you made some nonsensical claim about her checking in. Then you said she was doing well after AARC, even though one can plainly hear her state that she now suffers flashbacks and nightmares.
Well lets take a look at what Rachael says:
Alright then....
I do not smoke, drink, or use any drug. I haven't since several weeks before AARC. At that point I decided to I didn't want to anymore, so I stopped.
I am living a fantastic life with my husband and our beautiful daughter.
I have a stellar career, an amazing group of friends (including Olympic athletes and hopefully by Monday a Guinness World Record holder), a lovely home (rented, but we're working on buying our house), and in general a busy, but peaceful life.
I chair a non-profit organization, and hold over 5 major events every year that garner national media attention, competitors from all over the world and spectators from as far as Florida.
I don't blame AARC for any of this, I accept full responsibility. And I ran on Step One (after almost six months). I am supposed to be one of their failures. And I sure as hell intend on never using any of the "tools" AARC taught me.
Hmmmmm. doesnt seem too bad to me.
Then you said that court documents showed that Christine L was a shill for AARC. You claimed that Janice Tarchuk denying responsibility for AARC when she stated specifically that AARC was non-residential and the Sun then stating that AARC was residential was the same as someone making an analogy.
The claim says prior to her most recent comments Lunn was a supporter of the program, from which she graduated in January, 1997, even conducting voluntary speaking engagements to Calgary students.
This, in addition to your history of such bizarre failures as not knowing that Calgary was a city within the province of Alberta, and not knowing that Vancouver BC was not the same as Vancouver WA.
??
Here's a suggestion Johnny. If you want to dissect something, try using a scalpel instead of a handful of shit. Metaphorically speaking.
You'll have plenty of time to work on your non-existent abilities once you're fired from Correlsense, and either sitting at home or lounging in jail.
The above is what I refer to as dissecting. I cant respond to this when you go off the subject and start talking directly to Vause, Heather or Reuben. So I pass over this part.
Hope that helps to clear things up.
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Rachael O'Neil states very clearly that she suffers nightmares and flashbacks from being in AARC, but that doesn't seem bad to John D. Reuben, ed con. In a way, I'm a little embarassed Johnny, when I take apart your bizarre and feeble efforts here. You're clearly mentally unsound, and more than a little dumb, but you provide a tremendous opportunity to demonstrate the various harmful aspects of AARC. It's a little time-consuming, but you serve your purpose here. If you do try to get a new username before you go to jail, I might suggest "Skeet". You're like a little clay pigeon.
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Rachael O'Neil states very clearly that she suffers nightmares and flashbacks from being in AARC, but that doesn't seem bad to John D. Reuben, ed con. In a way, I'm a little embarassed Johnny, when I take apart your bizarre and feeble efforts here. You're clearly mentally unsound, and more than a little dumb, but you provide a tremendous opportunity to demonstrate the various harmful aspects of AARC. It's a little time-consuming, but you serve your purpose here. If you do try to get a new username before you go to jail, I might suggest "Skeet". You're like a little clay pigeon.
See there you go taling to Reuben again. So I take it you will never man up and try to face any of these people yourself. It is interesting watching you talk to all these people on line when they obviously have never logged in here.
So I tossed Rachaels own words onto the table. As we have all read she is doing well and is drug free.... thats what AARC is about isnt it? When you find your post let me know. I tossed up the 5 Stages as outlined by the Mental health professionals. When you get a hold of Heather you should post her 4 stages up here so we can compare. I am sure they are the same as I posted (or fairly close) because the US and Canada are not typically that far apart from a medical perspective.
As an observation you seem to be getting more and more pissed at this Reuben guy. Why not call him? Try to break from your MO of hiding in the shadows and attacking people and their families. Then maybe you will develop the courage to call Heather and even Dr. Vause someday, although I have my doubts, but it is a goal. If something goes wrong at work to you run down to the boiler room and start screaming and then go back to your desk and hope the problem goes away? lol
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Johnny, Rachael said she is suffering from nightmares and flashbacks about AARC. Prior to her appearance on the Fifth Estate, when she tried to talk about AARC on Fornits, she was assailed as a relapsed malcontent druggie. In order to defend herself, Rachael explained that she was in fact a responsible and successful person by posting the info you've quoted. Of course, the Fifth Estate demonstrated that according to a licensed psychologist, Rachael did not have a drug dependence disorder, yet she was still held in AARC for five months until she ran. Since Rachael was "drug free" prior to entering AARC, that is not what AARC was all about for her.
Something that you should realize Reuben, is that it doesn't matter exactly which posts are yours and which aren't. Correlsense is going to get your criminal record, along with the info about Aspen's troubles, and a brief explanation of your involvement. Once that ball is in play, then your bosses will be privileged to some of your Fornits work. It won't matter which is yours and which isn't. The general idea of you as a deviant criminal will already be the principle underlying the rest of the evidence. The Aspen deaths, the investigations, and the closures are iron-clad. Once they see that, and then the bizzzarro Fornits stuff starts turning up, the deal will be done. The complaint itself, coupled with the proven Aspen stuff will be enough to make you seem way more trouble than you're worth. Once suspicions are raised, it's all downhill from there for you, Johnny boy. That's the flip-side of your chickenshit attempt to play on Fornits refusal to out folks. Anything anonymous can be alleged to be yours. You can deny it, but then your bosses are going to have to ask themselves how your name got linked to this in the first place.
I'd suggest that you empty your pockets Johnny. You don't want to get everything wet once you start log-rolling.
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Johnny, Rachael said she is suffering from nightmares and flashbacks about AARC. Prior to her appearance on the Fifth Estate, when she tried to talk about AARC on Fornits, she was assailed as a relapsed malcontent druggie. In order to defend herself, Rachael explained that she was in fact a responsible and successful person by posting the info you've quoted. Of course, the Fifth Estate demonstrated that according to a licensed psychologist, Rachael did not have a drug dependence disorder, yet she was still held in AARC for five months until she ran. Since Rachael was "drug free" prior to entering AARC, that is not what AARC was all about for her.
Well that fine for you but the rest of us will go along with what Rachael said herself which is that she is drug free and living a happy life. If you can show this not to be the case then maybe a few of us may listen, but until then we are going to have to side with Rachael.
This Rueben guy is your next Vause? You should try to come up with a nick name for him like “TheWiz” and then predict the future like you did with AARC when you said they were breaking the law and should be licensed etc. you predicted they would be shut down in 6 months (that was more than 2 years ago)!! then the spotlight got put on them and they found AARC is doing fine. The kids were shown to be successful after graduation .... and poor Ajax13 was left with...well, well the newspapers are corrupt... the officials are corrupt...5th estate exposed them!! They should still be licensed!! lol.
So now that we all know AARC is moving forward and thriving your new prediction (pet project) is that this guy Reuben will be exposed fired and put in jail. Lol Do you want to put a time frame on it? I think we would all rout for you to do better than the last time. What do you think? 6 months, a year? 2 years? If he is not fired when you predict are you going to blame the local newspaper or corrupt officials in Massachusetts? And still claim you are right and everyone else is wrong. You are too afraid to even call and get the ball rolling!!
For a guy that hides in the dark you sure put forth confidence.
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Leave Ajax alone. When you have been told what to do and when to talk and who to talk to for years on end it is not easy to confront authority directly and sometimes it doesn’t matter if the person we are talking to is listening. It just feels good to pretend we are and getting it off our chests is more important than who we are talking to. So back the fuck off and let him post.
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Leave Ajax alone. When you have been told what to do and when to talk and who to talk to for years on end it is not easy to confront authority directly and sometimes it doesn’t matter if the person we are talking to is listening. It just feels good to pretend we are and getting it off our chests is more important than who we are talking to. So back the fuck off and let him post.
There are lots of people who do not like to confront people or problems head on. There are people where I work who run down to the boiler room, close the door and scream their heads off and then quietly go back to their office and they feel better.
This is what I think posters like Ajax use fornits for. It doesn’t matter if the person you are talking to reads your message, what matters is that you get out your frustration.
Thats whats going on here.
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First of all Ajax isn’t a survivor. He works hard trying to expose AARC as the abusive cult it is, for a friend. But there are people who do better fighting their fight on the internet and Ajax is one of these people. People like Vause and Reuben are very confident, dynamic, educated people and speak well in public settings and audiences. They are able to defend themselves very well verbally. Someone like Ajax would never have a chance against them and probably got a taste of this early on in his fight and that is why he prefers the keyboard because he doesn’t have to speak directly to anyone or make eye contact which can be intimidating to some. Who knows maybe Vause or Reuben will show up someday and read Ajax's posts. This is what he hopes for and what keeps him posting here, not just screaming into an empty room.
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People like Vause and Reuben are very confident, dynamic, educated people and speak well in public settings and audiences.
Vause' education doesn't hold up under scrutiny.
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I read this part:
Cool, let's talk about your extensive criminal record. Personally, I wouldn't take advice from a criminal like you and I don't think anyone else would either. You're a fraud. You don't disclose your criminal record and act like you are the most moral of the people here, but now we know you're nothing but a reprobate. Tell us about your arrest for inappropriate sexual contact with a minor. Discuss.
Don't forget he's a common criminal as well:
I was arrested several times in Boston...
Funny, so was John Reuben. He was arrested several times in Boston as well. On the same dates TheWho was arrested. Coincidence? Hardly.
Anyway, why would any parent entrust their child's welfare to John Reuben, an admitted criminal with an extensive arrest record including public intoxication and destruction of property, who openly refers to the most abusive family of programs, Aspen Education, who had half of their programs in Oregon forcibly shut down by state investigators for murdering, abusing and neglecting children in their care, including sexualized humiliation by forcing little girls to give lap dances to and perform simulated felatio on their unlicensed, uneducated couselors?
Think about this, parents, before you make the biggest mistake of your and your kid's life.
Let's hear your explanation about why you attack everyone else's credibility when you are a convicted criminal. Why do you have an FBI number? Are you a spousal abuser, child molester or convicted felon? Why are you barred from owning a firearm, Whooter? My wife does the NCICS checks for handgun permits at the county sheriff's office and guess "who"se name comes right up as "restricted"? Please explain to the readers why you are concealing your extensive criminal record, Whooter.
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Why are you barred from owning a firearm, Whooter? My wife does the NCICS checks for handgun permits at the county sheriff's office and guess "who"se name comes right up as "restricted"? Please explain to the readers why you are concealing your extensive criminal record, Whooter.
Ha,Ha,Ha so your wife plugged in the name Whooter and comes up with information? Dont you realize this is just a log in name? My name isnt really Whooter. I use to go by the name of "Thewho" and psy, I think, nicknamed me whooter which stuck for most people so this is what I go by now. But you cant do an FBI check on me lol.
Thats funny!
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psy, I think, nicknamed me whooter which stuck for most people so this is what I go by now.
Actually, I believe it was Disfunction Junction who came up with that name, after "Scooter Libby".
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No, she ran the name "John David Reuben" and came back with an exctensive arrest record beginning with petty crimes in Boston in the 1970's and one in Michigan, just like Whooter admitted to on this forum. So now we're supposed to believe, along with all of the other evidence that Whooter is Reuben, that their arrest records are identical by coincidence? Sorry, Whooter, but we all know who you are and this is just more proof. You're a low-life criminal and everyone should be aware of that.
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No, she ran the name "John David Reuben" and came back with an exctensive arrest record beginning with petty crimes in Boston in the 1970's and one in Michigan, just like Whooter admitted to on this forum. So now we're supposed to believe, along with all of the other evidence that Whooter is Reuben, that their arrest records are identical by coincidence? Sorry, Whooter, but we all know who you are and this is just more proof. You're a low-life criminal and everyone should be aware of that.
Oh No! I have an FBI record! What should I do? Now everyone thinks I am this guy Reuben. If I get fired will this give me more time to post? or will I have to go job hunting. Wait I am so confused, I thought I was employed by Aspen? At least that is what everyone was saying here on fornits. I am suppose to be a shill. Have I gone from a shill to a low life criminal? Is there a program for someone suffering with identity issues?
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I think it has been pretty well documented that you are Reuben. You share the same criminal record, you both shill for Aspen, you both had a son die after attending SUWS and ASR, you both had a son at HLA, you both took a trip to Chicago to meet with Lon Woodbury, Martha Kolbe and a host of other industry bogeymen just before STICC was launched. Really, you're not fooling anyone.
The criminal record just cemented the facts. What are the odds that two people share the same arrest record in two separate states for the same crimes at the same time?
Why don't you just explain to the readers how you and Reuben share so many similarities including an identical arrest record that you already admitted to here?
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I think it has been pretty well documented that you are Reuben.
Well, okay lets go over that
You share the same criminal record
Hmmm, I was was arrested when I was in College for protesting. Never owned a gun or have been arrested since.
you both shill for Aspen
Never been paid for this although I have openly support a few of their programs so I can see how that can be percieved.
you both had a son die after attending SUWS and ASR, you both had a son at HLA
I had a daughter who attended ASR and SUWS. She is alive and doing well. I never had a son in a program.
you both took a trip to Chicago to meet with Lon Woodbury, Martha Kolbe and a host of other industry bogeymen just before STICC was launched.
You say both? You could probably document this Reuben guy as being there, but how do you place me there? You say you have documented evidence. Evidence would mean I was posting from Chicago at the same time this meeting took place. That may raise some eyebrows I would say. But you see you dont have that evidence because I wasnt there.
Really, you're not fooling anyone.
Apparently someone is fooling you
The criminal record just cemented the facts. What are the odds that two people share the same arrest record in two separate states for the same crimes at the same time?
How could you possibly have reviewed my arrest record and compared it to Reubens. You dont even have my name? What 2 records are you comparing
Why don't you just explain to the readers how you and Reuben share so many similarities including an identical arrest record that you already admitted to here?
It seems to be all in your head. you started out by saying it is well documented. Why not start there and show us the documented evidence. It would be interesting to show how you placed us both in Chicago during this meeting as starters. Then maybe show where it is documented that I had a son die after attending a program like Reuben did.
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Well, first off, you posted under the usename TheWho that you made the trip to Chicago to meet with people to discuss the industry and program safety while you posting your "matrix." Now you're denying it? Lying then or lying now? I think now.
You also admitted, using the username TheWho to being "arrested several times in Boston." Plus another arrest in Michigan. Lying then, or lying now? I think now.
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Well, first off, you posted under the usename TheWho that you made the trip to Chicago to meet with people to discuss the industry and program safety while you posting your "matrix." Now you're denying it? Lying then or lying now? I think now.
Show the links and the time frames. Whether I say it is true or not true makes no difference. Was I posting from chicago as "thewho" when this Reuben guy was. If you have convinced yourself then you must be able to produce this time frame via links to posts. Why not ask Psy for a favor... he can check the ip address from the posts I made during the time you said I was in Chicago. If it shows those posts were coming from Chicago then that is fairly solid evidence. If I was posting from Massachusetts then I was there. This would be a good start for you, unless you want to avoid knowing for sure and stay with your fantasy
You also admitted, using the username TheWho to being "arrested several times in Boston." Plus another arrest in Michigan. Lying then, or lying now? I think now.
Show the link.
Reuben was also arrested several times in Boston in the 1970's and again in Michigan for destruction of property in the same time frame. Under the username TheWho you admitted to destroying a college campus in Michigan and being arrested for that. Rueben was arrested for the same thing in the same place. Coincidence? I don't think so.
Show the link that convinced you of this so we can all see it.
As for the ficticious story you created here about your "daughter," well, that doesn't mean much.
So your story doesnt add up and you say it doesnt mean much? Ha,Ha,Ha how do you decifer what is true and what isnt?
You lie about all sorts of things and that's just one more. You don't like to admit that SUWS and ASR failed your son, Mike, and that he's dead now because he never got the help he needed.
If I lie about all sorts of things than you need to show us all the links where you base your conclusions on. Since you say I lie you can pretty much say what ever you want and blame the discrepancies on my lieing.
Why don't you just spell out your extensive arrest record for the readers so they at least can see you're being honest about it. You may gain some credibility if you start by telling the truth. I know you don't own a firearm. No need to explain that. You're disallowed from owning one due to your criminal history. An NCICS check of your name proved this as well.
You claim to have all the information on me, why dont you spell it out lol .... or did you make that up too.
So far you have provided the readers with no evidence at all. Line up the time lines of when this guy Reuben was in chicago and when you think I was. Toss up the links which helped you make this connection or is this just a story line for you?
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TheWho claiming to have met in Chicago:
Well, I PM?d several people here on fornits and eventually we formed a ?Statistical group? and decided to meet at the Hyatt in Chicago about a month ago. We spent 3 days hammering out a direction and figured we would tackle the TBS sector first. We felt you were well respected here at fornits and had your hands around the other areas and were doing fine independently. Your name was brought up several times so you were not forgotten or left out.
TheWho claiming to have met in Chicago (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/posting.php?mode=quote&f=9&p=245433)
TheWho admitting to his arrest record, but leaving out quite a bit of tha nasty stuff:
Hi Anne, seems I am on the hot seat:
Actually I do have a record. The last time I was arrested was in college. I was arrested several times in Boston (for various protests and acts of civil disobedience) and once in Ann Arbor Michigan (when a protest got out of hand). I was underage, skipped school and scored a plane ticket from my sisters boyfriend when my parents were in Europe and went to the campus of Univ of Michigan in Ann arbor, myself and several people were arrested for digging these huge craters on the Diag which were meant to simulate bomb holes left by the US in Vietnam, by far my best arrest (like 40 or 50 of us were arrested). Thought I was going to be sent away when my folks cut their trip short to come home to get me, anyway, that one is probably sealed because I was underaged. I will never forget they separated me from the others for some reason and I ended up in a cell with 5 other people. This one hue black guy who was obviously drunk out of his mind kept falling asleep and then falling off his bench...he would then wake up and look right at me and say something like : if you push me again white boy I will "F" you up so much even your mother will not love you..... I was so scared that after a couple of times I waited for him to fall asleep and then I took my shoes off and wedged them underneath him so he wouldnt roll off the bench again.
TheWho admitting to his arrest record for "multiple arrests" (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=23338&p=284895&hilit=+arrest#p284895)
Lying THEN, or lying NOW? Does it really matter? It's proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that TheWho has been caught lying again, right here in this thread. Lying about his extensive arrest record and lying about his trip to Chicago with Lon Woodbury and Martha Kolbe, along with others.
It is so easy to catch you lying because you lie so much you can't remember your lies. And because you sold your username, you can't edit what you wrote. How very sad to prove you are a liar once again. I already proved you just lied about your extensive arrest record and meeting in Chicago. Two things you claimed I could never prove. But there it is, in cold print, [bu]written by YOU.[/u]
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TheWho claiming to have met in Chicago:
Well, I PM?d several people here on fornits and eventually we formed a ?Statistical group? and decided to meet at the Hyatt in Chicago about a month ago. We spent 3 days hammering out a direction and figured we would tackle the TBS sector first. We felt you were well respected here at fornits and had your hands around the other areas and were doing fine independently. Your name was brought up several times so you were not forgotten or left out.
TheWho claiming to have met in Chicago (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/posting.php?mode=quote&f=9&p=245433)
So the above post was written February 8, 2007 and indicates that a meeting was held a month prior putting it at around January 8, 2007. Does this match up with the time frame you have of Reuben meeting with Woodbury and the rest of these people? I admit this would be interesting if it were the same time.
TheWho admitting to his arrest record, but leaving out quite a bit of tha nasty stuff:
Hi Anne, seems I am on the hot seat:
Actually I do have a record. The last time I was arrested was in college. I was arrested several times in Boston (for various protests and acts of civil disobedience) and once in Ann Arbor Michigan (when a protest got out of hand). I was underage, skipped school and scored a plane ticket from my sisters boyfriend when my parents were in Europe and went to the campus of Univ of Michigan in Ann arbor, myself and several people were arrested for digging these huge craters on the Diag which were meant to simulate bomb holes left by the US in Vietnam, by far my best arrest (like 40 or 50 of us were arrested). Thought I was going to be sent away when my folks cut their trip short to come home to get me, anyway, that one is probably sealed because I was underaged. I will never forget they separated me from the others for some reason and I ended up in a cell with 5 other people. This one hue black guy who was obviously drunk out of his mind kept falling asleep and then falling off his bench...he would then wake up and look right at me and say something like : if you push me again white boy I will "F" you up so much even your mother will not love you..... I was so scared that after a couple of times I waited for him to fall asleep and then I took my shoes off and wedged them underneath him so he wouldnt roll off the bench again.
TheWho admitting to his arrest record for "multiple arrests" (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=23338&p=284895&hilit=+arrest#p284895)
Lying THEN, or lying NOW? Does it really matter? It's proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that TheWho has been caught lying again, right here in this thread. Lying about his extensive arrest record and lying about his trip to Chicago with Lon Woodbury and Martha Kolbe, along with others.
It is so easy to catch you lying because you lie so much you can't remember your lies. And because you sold your username, you can't edit what you wrote. How very sad to prove you are a liar once again. I already proved you just lied about your extensive arrest record and meeting in Chicago. Two things you claimed I could never prove. But there it is, in cold print, [bu]written by YOU.[/u]
What I see is consitency. The posts show that the last time I was arrested was in college. Where is the lie?
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You just said earlier in this thread that you never said you were arrested (a lie) and that you never went to Chicago (a lie). I'm working with the two provable lies you just posted in this thread while claiming I was a liar and you never said those things.
Readers can discount everything you say because you lie so much you can't even keep the lies straight.
Now is it a coincidence that Reuben was arrested several times in Boston and also in Ann Arbor, Michigan? I don't think it is. In fact, I know it isn't.
It's also not true that you haven't been arrested since age 22. You were arrested several times after that age. Care to explain that discrepency as well? Care to explain if you were lying now or then? And why you lied?
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You just said earlier in this thread that you never said you were arrested (a lie) and that you never went to Chicago (a lie). I'm working with the two provable lies you just posted in this thread while claiming I was a liar and you never said those things.
Readers can discount everything you say because you lie so much you can't even keep the lies straight.
What I see is that it is well documented that I stated several times I was arrested while I was in college.... if you have anything else you can provide the link.
Now is it a coincidence that Reuben was arrested several times in Boston and also in Ann Arbor, Michigan? I don't think it is. In fact, I know it isn't.
Show us the link where Reuben was arrested the same time I was (missing piece of your argument)
It's also not true that you haven't been arrested since age 22. You were arrested several times after that age. Care to explain that discrepency as well? Care to explain if you were lying now or then? And why you lied?
If you believe it to be not true then provide the evidence... so far it is all talk.
I think the kicker for you is if you can place Rueben and myself in Chicago at this meeting in January of 2007. You stated that Rueben, woodbury and others were there at this the time I was... can you provide this info? The dates the woodbury meeting took place?
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TheWho claiming to have met in Chicago:
Well, I PM?d several people here on fornits and eventually we formed a ?Statistical group? and decided to meet at the Hyatt in Chicago about a month ago. We spent 3 days hammering out a direction and figured we would tackle the TBS sector first. We felt you were well respected here at fornits and had your hands around the other areas and were doing fine independently. Your name was brought up several times so you were not forgotten or left out.
TheWho claiming to have met in Chicago (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/posting.php?mode=quote&f=9&p=245433)
So the above post was written February 8, 2007 and indicates that a meeting was held a month prior putting it at around January 8, 2007.
you both took a trip to Chicago to meet with Lon Woodbury, Martha Kolbe and a host of other industry bogeymen just before STICC was launched.
Oh no! STICC's was launched in 2004 and thewho had his meeting in 2007. Bruce, Looks like you are off by 3 years, thewho wasnt even posting here in 2004. What else do you have?
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You just said earlier in this thread that you never said you were arrested (a lie) and that you never went to Chicago (a lie). I'm working with the two provable lies you just posted in this thread while claiming I was a liar and you never said those things.
Readers can discount everything you say because you lie so much you can't even keep the lies straight.
Now is it a coincidence that Reuben was arrested several times in Boston and also in Ann Arbor, Michigan? I don't think it is. In fact, I know it isn't.
It's also not true that you haven't been arrested since age 22. You were arrested several times after that age. Care to explain that discrepency as well? Care to explain if you were lying now or then? And why you lied?
Yes, TheWho has been caught in several whoppers in this thread, but it's only a fraction of the amount of lies he has told. These are just the ones he lied about today. STICC was incorporated in 2004, but the site was launched and the "team" was finalized much later, right after the trip to Chicago.
So, was Whooter lying before when he said he didn't go to Chicago, or when he said he did several years ago? Was he lying several years ago when he said he had an extensive arrest history, or just today when he claimed he never said that earlier in this thread?
See what I mean, people? He lies constantly. You can't believe a word he says!
Plus he doesn't want to tell about a little DUI (and a few other items) he had well after college when he claims his last arrest was. He also doesn't want to explain why he's prohibited from owning a firearm. Usually felons and domestic abusers fit this bill. Which one is Whooter? Felon? Spousal abuser? Both? He sure doesn't want to elaborate...
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you both took a trip to Chicago to meet with Lon Woodbury, Martha Kolbe and a host of other industry bogeymen just before STICC was launched.
STICC was launched in April of 2004 and thewhos post that you provided shows he was in chicago for the meeting in January of 2007.
If you had evidence of any kind to show that Woodbury, Martha Kolbe and Reuben were in Chicago in January 2007, when thewho was there, then I think we would all believe you. What was the evidence or post that convinced you that this meeting took place? I find it curious that you posted that but never provided the link.
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you both took a trip to Chicago to meet with Lon Woodbury, Martha Kolbe and a host of other industry bogeymen just before STICC was launched.
STICC was launched in April of 2004 and thewhos post that you provided shows he was in chicago for the meeting in January of 2007.
If you had evidence of any kind to show that Woodbury, Martha Kolbe and Reuben were in Chicago in January 2007, when thewho was there, then I think we would all believe you. What was the evidence or post that convinced you that this meeting took place? I find it curious that you posted that but never provided the link.
Lols. Pinched.
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You started out really convincing but you basically have nothing. You cant tie the meeting with Woodbury etal in Chicago to January of 2007 (not sure why you even mentioned Woodbury etal without some type of evidence, just wishful thinking?). All we know is thewho was there. You couldnt provide any evidence of Woodbury and the others being there and you toss up an email that isnt even mine. Good luck with all of that.
I guess if you are still convinced you could ask Psy if this person "Concerned Parent" and I have the same IP address. I would consent to having this done if it makes you feel better and then he could see if I was posting from Chicago the same time Woodbury was there.
See,Bruce, you could really do some damage by proving that I was this poster "Concerned parent" and that I was in Chicago with Woodbury. I even give permission to check my ip address against the evidence you have.
Let us readers and I know how you make out.
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Whooter should try a little honesty for a change.
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Well it sure seems like you have yourself convinced, I'll give you that. I think it would help us readers if you provided the links showing the lies and the ties to the chicago trip. I noticed you provided a conference for 2006, but your previous post showed thewho was in Chicago in 2007. I read where thewho said he was arrested in college and that is consistent with what he said on this thread too.
If you really feel this guy is Reuben you need to tie the two together somehow. Your dates are not even close, some are off by over a year. As far as the email goes that could have been anyone. How do you know onekidatatime@yahoo.com is thewho? You never established this.
It is all very interesting but you have not proved anything new here.
I look forward to the links.
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Leave Ajax alone. When you have been told what to do and when to talk and who to talk to for years on end it is not easy to confront authority directly and sometimes it doesn’t matter if the person we are talking to is listening. It just feels good to pretend we are and getting it off our chests is more important than who we are talking to. So back the fuck off and let him post.
There are lots of people who do not like to confront people or problems head on. There are people where I work who run down to the boiler room, close the door and scream their heads off and then quietly go back to their office and they feel better.
This is what I think posters like Ajax use fornits for. It doesn’t matter if the person you are talking to reads your message, what matters is that you get out your frustration.
Thats whats going on here.
I think the message matters more than the energy that is behind it.
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Topic continued here (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=29342) due to TheWho spamming with emoticons to avoid the subject of his criminal record and involvement with the TTI along with his identity (a.k.a. John Reuben).
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Just like it's okay for a pilot to be conscious, or semi-conscious. Same thing, right, Johnny? The Minister who oversees residential facilities for children in care in the province said very specifically that AARC was not a residential facility, and the Sun then claimed that it was. AARC was using Christine Lunn to sell their program while she was still a client, and according to AARC being held in AARC by court order. I saw the promo on CFCN back in '97. In fact, AARC uses every single client to sell their program, as they are all required to attend AARC's fundraising beg-a-thons.
Let's get it right.
AARC is QUASI-Residential!
:trophy:
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Just like it's okay for a pilot to be conscious, or semi-conscious. Same thing, right, Johnny? The Minister who oversees residential facilities for children in care in the province said very specifically that AARC was not a residential facility, and the Sun then claimed that it was. AARC was using Christine Lunn to sell their program while she was still a client, and according to AARC being held in AARC by court order. I saw the promo on CFCN back in '97. In fact, AARC uses every single client to sell their program, as they are all required to attend AARC's fundraising beg-a-thons.
Let's get it right.
AARC is QUASI-Residential!
:trophy:
Good Point, laughing. It could be Quasi - Residential. Also, we have a school in our area which the papers are constantly calling a "Prep" school but the state lists it as a "High School". People dont get mad at the papers definition or the states. I think Ajax13 justs likes to try to control what other people say. Most of us care less what the place is called as long as they continue to help these people.
As far as Christine Lunn goes she wasnt attending the fundraiser she was actively working to raise money for AARC by her own free will.
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Just like it's okay for a pilot to be conscious, or semi-conscious. Same thing, right, Johnny? The Minister who oversees residential facilities for children in care in the province said very specifically that AARC was not a residential facility, and the Sun then claimed that it was. AARC was using Christine Lunn to sell their program while she was still a client, and according to AARC being held in AARC by court order. I saw the promo on CFCN back in '97. In fact, AARC uses every single client to sell their program, as they are all required to attend AARC's fundraising beg-a-thons.
Let's get it right.
AARC is QUASI-Residential!
:trophy:
Good Point, laughing. It could be Quasi - Residential. Also, we have a school in our area which the papers are constantly calling a "Prep" school but the state lists it as a "High School". People dont get mad at the papers definition or the states. I think Ajax13 justs likes to try to control what other people say. Most of us care less what the place is called as long as they continue to help these people.
As far as Christine Lunn goes she wasnt attending the fundraiser she was actively working to raise money for AARC by her own free will.
I understand what you are saying, but not sure if I agree with you.
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Here I will refresh your memory:
]you both took a trip to Chicago to meet with Lon Woodbury, Martha Kolbe and a host of other industry bogeymen just before STICC was launched.
You say both? You could probably document this Reuben guy as being there, but how do you place me there? You say you have documented evidence. Evidence would mean I was posting from Chicago at the same time this meeting took place. That may raise some eyebrows I would say. But you see you dont have that evidence because I wasnt there.
So you said I was there just before STICC was launched. STICC was launched in April of 2004. You also said I was with Lon Woodbury, Martha Kolbe and a host of other industry bogeymen. Do you care to try to deny you said this?
In February of 2007 I wrote:
Well, I PM?d several people here on fornits and eventually we formed a ?Statistical group? and decided to meet at the Hyatt in Chicago about a month ago. We spent 3 days hammering out a direction and figured we would tackle the TBS sector first. We felt you were well respected here at fornits and had your hands around the other areas and were doing fine independently. Your name was brought up several times so you were not forgotten or left out.
Link (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16007&p=245433&hilit=+chicago#p245433)
So where is the lie?