Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Anonymous on October 11, 2009, 10:45:19 PM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQ90CGxQmdU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQ90CGxQmdU)
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no. never. such a thought would never cross my mind. I would just try to make sure he stays seated or reclined. as long as you're not standing (can fall, hit head, pple have died that way), salvia is completely safe. most of the effects last 15 min and within an hour you are 100% back to normal. it's generally very unpleasant, and most people do it only once, the ones who continue to use it only do so a few more times. Plus i'd rather my son smoke salvia than eat shrooms, salvia incapacitates you preventing you from doing any damage to yourself as long as your sitting or laying down, and the "trip" is so short it's highly unlikely to seriously affect the psyche or cause a traumatic experience. no matter how bad it is, you snap out of it real quick. with mushrooms, you have to wait up to six hours, LSD up to 18 or more (although thats not a good comparison, LSD and psilocybin belong to a completely different group of compounds - like comparing apples and oranges, but more like apples to peaches). If anything, he'll come out of it a slightly deeper individual, with a greater appreciation for life and spirituality. Salvia is also like a test to see if someone can handle probing the depths of their own consciousness, and therefore should, or if they cant handle it and therefore should not continue on that path. For someone new to psychedelics, it's akin to dipping your toes in the hypothetical psychedelic swimming pool to test the water. If he has a bad trip, he'll be turned off of psychedelics at least for a little while. win. If he has a good trip on salvia (rare), it probably means he learned something, and that he can responsibly handle psychedelics in the future (with a little guidance). win. with salvia, it's a win-win situation for everyone.
salvia is still legal in most states...and will probably stay legal...for those exact reasons.
on the other hand, if my son was smoking salvia on a regular basis for an extended period of time (e.g every day for a few weeks / every week for a few months), i would start to weigh my options. If you're smoking salvia that often, there has to be something seriously wrong with you. no one in their right mind would even want to smoke salvia that often, not the most decrepit junkie, not the most out-there and experienced hippie, not the most hedonistic frat boy. it's a very unpleasant drug. If he was smoking salvia rarely, and it was causing problems such as emotional disturbances, then i would make him stop. i dont think salvia is very hard to stop doing, as it's not something anyone even starts doing in the first place. If a single try of salvia caused him to become emotionally unstable (such as the kid that killed himself in long island a few years back, he was the excuse for the attempted and failed legislation against salvia in NY state), then i would do my best to help him. sending him away would probably not be the best route, although it is something i may consider if the factors call for that - but it will not be to a wilderness or TBS, it would be to a properly run facility - not a cult rehab.
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If this were your kid would you send them to a program?
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Yes, I would.
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If this were your kid would you send them to a program?
[/b][/i]
Yes, I would.
why?
explain your reasoning. since when does salvia, or experimentation with any drug within reason, cause anyone to be, or indicate, being "troubled" and in need of help? i would think someone who has never experimented with any drugs may need some help. what, you want your kid to be sheltered? completely innocent? unable to deal with harsh realities? drugs do no more or less damage than the very institutions that claim to reform drug users do. different paths to (statistically) the same outcomes.
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If this were your kid would you send them to a program?
[/b][/i]
Yes, I would.
why?
explain your reasoning. since when does salvia, or experimentation with any drug within reason, cause anyone to be, or indicate, being "troubled" and in need of help? i would think someone who has never experimented with any drugs may need some help. what, you want your kid to be sheltered? completely innocent? unable to deal with harsh realities? drugs do no more or less damage than the very institutions that claim to reform drug users do. different paths to (statistically) the same outcomes.
true. and at least with drugs he'll be going through it on his own terms and under his parent's guidance and supervision, and that will hopefully prevent a sense of powerlessness over those drugs which can lead to addiction or other problems.
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No, I would give them a lesson they never had got before so they can learn to drink alcohol instead. Alcohol is a part of our culture (http://http://alcoholcultureindenmark.webbyen.dk/) and while it too can pose a danger, we know all about it works. That's why we have a 16 year limit in our shops.
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In February the Danish daily newspaper Politiken reported new evidence that deaths from alcohol related diseases in Denmark have risen by 120% since 1970, contributing to the failure of Denmark to match improvements in life expectancy seen in neighbouring countries. The death rate from liver cirrhosis in Denmark is now at its highest point.
Study Link (http://http://eurpub.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/reprint/10/2/93.pdf)
The analyses lead to consistent conclusions about the age
groups and causes of death that result in the unfavourable
trend in life expectancy in Denmark. A considerable
proportion of the extra deaths occurring in Denmark
could be prevented, in particular those due to smoking
and alcohol consumption. This challenge must be addressed
in future health promotion strategies in Denmark.
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explain your reasoning
No, I will not. [/i] :roflmao:
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No, I would give them a lesson they never had got before so they can learn to drink alcohol instead. Alcohol is a part of our culture (http://http://alcoholcultureindenmark.webbyen.dk/) and while it too can pose a danger, we know all about it works. That's why we have a 16 year limit in our shops.
or i would teach him a lesson they never had got before so they can learn to smoke marijuana, which is a part of OUR culture (free-thinking, artistic, educated americans - not particular to any locale).
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQ90CGxQmdU
Only if they were stealing that shit from my stash. Buy your own saliva, ya little cunt.
Im so silly on that stuff. I just sit there and every so often I nod and say "hmmm! ok." like Im intellectually processing the hallucination or something.
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explain your reasoning
No, I will not. [/i] :roflmao:
I knew this would piss people off :rocker:
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQ90CGxQmdU
Only if they were stealing that shit from my stash. Buy your own saliva, ya little cunt.
Im so silly on that stuff. I just sit there and every so often I nod and say "hmmm! ok." like Im intellectually processing the hallucination or something.
It is a rather interesting, and introspective, experience. I found myself using it rather frequently for a year or so, then tapered off to none at all for a while. I'm not adverse to further expiramentation, but frequent use degrades the experience, IMO.
YEr pal,
RTP
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In February the Danish daily newspaper Politiken reported new evidence that deaths from alcohol related diseases in Denmark have risen by 120% since 1970, contributing to the failure of Denmark to match improvements in life expectancy seen in neighbouring countries. The death rate from liver cirrhosis in Denmark is now at its highest point.
Study Link (http://http://eurpub.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/reprint/10/2/93.pdf)
The analyses lead to consistent conclusions about the age
groups and causes of death that result in the unfavourable
trend in life expectancy in Denmark. A considerable
proportion of the extra deaths occurring in Denmark
could be prevented, in particular those due to smoking
and alcohol consumption. This challenge must be addressed
in future health promotion strategies in Denmark.
What seem to bother our politicians the most is that our society have to finance the old-age-pensioners. It is called "the burden of elderlies". So when a larger number of people die premature before they retire and the society has to pay for them, it is actually a good thing. You can not get a politician to state it in public, but they are deeply worried about the fact that the elderlies have organizations fighting for them unlike the generations before them (http://http://www.cphpost.dk/news/national/88-national/46423-elderly-association-growing-at-rapid-pace.html), who used to be happy just to get some few cents.
However the influence of MADD seems to reach even to Denmark. Link to Wine around the world (http://http://www.rcanalscanals.com/alcohol/week-6-and-the-conspiracy-theory/). Another sad issue is that attack therapy has reached Denmark too (http://http://secret-prisons-for-teens.blogspot.com/2009/10/confrontational-therapy-in-denmark.html), but unlike the United States our politicians don't like it and they are ready to regulate the area.
As stated before I am not worried about that a teenager who has been confirmed and by the word of God an adult is drinking. Unlike an older son I still have something to say in his life. He can choose to run away or go down to the cityhall if he doesn't like the rules I run my house by. It is not a crime to run away in Denmark. The police don't bring them home if they are staying with friends at their own age. But should he leave it will be a kind of wilderness program for him. He will soon miss our food, clean clothes and not least our money. So he can listen to me while I calculate the amount he is allowed to drink and I take into consideration that he would properly drink a beer or 2 more than I allow. I used to be a kid myself some 20 years ago.
But there is another reason that I prefer that he is using alcohol rather than drugs. On every single bottle there is a label telling everyone how strong it is. You don't find such a label with a pill or other kind of drugs. One pill doesn't work, the next one can kill you.
How can you guide anyone in the drug use if you don't know what you are dealing with?
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twenty first sichozo maan!!!
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Programs for troubled teens help them with drug addiction, alcohol addiction and build relationships with their loved ones.
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But there is another reason that I prefer that he is using alcohol rather than drugs. On every single bottle there is a label telling everyone how strong it is. You don't find such a label with a pill or other kind of drugs. One pill doesn't work, the next one can kill you.
How can you guide anyone in the drug use if you don't know what you are dealing with?
This only applies if you dont know anything about drugs. lack of knowledge = danger. For example, many people in the U.S combine Vicodin (hydrocodone with aceteminophen/paracetamol) with alcohol. little do they realize that Vicodin contains tylenol - which is paracetamol - which should never be combined with alcohol as it damages the liver. People do it anyway. You can teach a kid not to do drugs at all, but in all likelyhood they probably will do drugs. this is why one must teach kids about drugs, and not keep them completely ignorant about them. When and if they do drugs, without parental guidance, they will believe only colloquial knowledge - what their friends tell them - rather than what is actually true. Further, most drugs DO have labels. I'm not saying kids should be popping ecstacy or doing cocaine, as they should be educated to do so only once as a try for experience if they ever do it at all. I'm talking about primarily perscription medication (one of the leading causes of premature death in america), Marijuana (which wont kill you, but people do not know how to use it responsibly), and psychedelics (also wont kill you, but you can go crazy on them if you dont have guidance and supervision).
if a parent does not know anything about drugs, then they should not be teaching their kids about it. But i do think that if everyone in a particular society was doing certain drugs, if every teen went through a phase of experimentation guided by those in older generations, then the younger, future generations will be better-equipped to deal with issues such as addiction or bad trips; and since drug use is unavoidable, acceptance and education is the lesser evil compared to focus on total abstinence.
just replace "drugs" with "alcohol" and you will know exactly what i'm talking about froderik. it's all culturally relative. here in california, many, many, many people smoke marijuana and have experience in psychedelics. the likeleyhood of teens trying the stuff early in high school is very high. Parents educated their kids and supervise their kids here as they begin to experiment, much like the danish educate and supervise their kids as they drink. (irronically, while californians often focus on MJ, alcohol education towards responsible use via parents is almost completely absent outside of wine country [napa]).
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If this were your kid, and you loved and cared about him, and you were worried about his behavior, why would you send him away? Why would you abandon him?
Work it out at home. Be present in his life every day.
Auntie Em
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If this were your kid, and you loved and cared about him, and you were worried about his behavior, why would you send him away? Why would you abandon him?
Work it out at home. Be present in his life every day.
Auntie Em
Who knew it was this simple? Gosh, if only parents could "work it out at home" and "be present in his life every day" everything would work out fine. You better edit your post, this advice is worth some serious money. You need to start charging a fee for this advice, it's really good. I think programs might go out of business once parents hear about this.
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If you don't work it out at home and aren't present in your child's life, your kid will wind up deadinsaneondrugsorinjail.
Do you suddenly have a problem with one-size-fits-all solutions?
Or only those that that do not cost $90,000 a year?
Parents can, and do, successfully raise teenagers with behavior problems all the time--they did so for for centuries before the advent of big-business programs. Parents are far more capable than you give them credit for.
Auntie Em
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I dont think anyone would argue that home and family is the best place to raise a child, but there is always the exception. The one child that doesn’t do well at home with local services and needs some extra help outside the home.
If you have ever had a sick child at home imagine if the child could stay home and the doctor could come to him. This would be ideal, but care has become more and more complicated and refined to accommodate the increasing demand of individual treatment that the doctors bag couldn’t hold all the equipment necessary to treat each patient effectively.
But we need to remember that boarding a child in a therapeutic boarding school should never be a first step. the parent should seek local solutions and get the advice of the child’s therapist to determine if placement would be beneficial.