Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Anonymous on October 03, 2009, 06:49:49 PM
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Michael R. made the choice to kill himself. There is nobody that forced him to commit suicide. You guys blame the programs for everything a troubled teen does to himself or others. It's time to grow up folks.
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Wait, is Whooter actually trolling with HIS OWN DEAD KID?
We have reached the pinnacle, here. There is no greater troll than this. 13/10 and a triple platinum star.
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Was Michael R a dirty Jew? I think Adolf Hitler threw him in the ole oven!
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If you can't blame programs for what becomes of their victims post program, how can you credit them?
(And if programs have no bearing on what becomes of their victims, then what is their point? How can you justify kidnapping and imprisoning someone when that will have no positive benefit on their life, according to you. )
It's time to start taking accountability for the children you murder, killers, kidnappers, imprisoners, sub-folks.
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Michael R. made the choice to kill himself. There is nobody that forced him to commit suicide. You guys blame the programs for everything a troubled teen does to himself or others. It's time to grow up folks.
I'd tend to agree that ultimately a person has a choice. Still doesn't make it right to push somebody to it or make their existence and self image so miserable they want to.
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If you can't blame programs for what becomes of their victims post program, how can you credit them?
(And if programs have no bearing on what becomes of their victims, then what is their point? How can you justify kidnapping and imprisoning someone when that will have no positive benefit on their life, according to you. )
It's time to start taking accountability for the children you murder, killers, kidnappers, imprisoners, sub-folks.
Valid point. So the the thousands of lives that they save each year easily offsets the 1 or 2 that they miss. Based on this they should be building more programs.
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Michael R. made the choice to kill himself. There is nobody that forced him to commit suicide. You guys blame the programs for everything a troubled teen does to himself or others. It's time to grow up folks.
I'd tend to agree that ultimately a person has a choice. Still doesn't make it right to push somebody to it or make their existence and self image so miserable they want to.
I have read alot here and havent seen where he was pushed into it by anyone. The only info we have is the obit. Does anyone have anything else that we missed? Are people making things up again? Are there any threads dedicated to discussions based on facts here?
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If you can't blame programs for what becomes of their victims post program, how can you credit them?
(And if programs have no bearing on what becomes of their victims, then what is their point? How can you justify kidnapping and imprisoning someone when that will have no positive benefit on their life, according to you. )
It's time to start taking accountability for the children you murder, killers, kidnappers, imprisoners, sub-folks.
Valid point. So the the thousands of lives that they save each year easily offsets the 1 or 2 that they miss. Based on this they should be building more programs.
Proof of these "thousands of lives saved" every year? Love to see what you come up with! So far, there's lots of articles in respected main stream media featuring your victims' descriptions of torture and brainwashing, which have been proved to cause serious, deadly psychological debilitation, permanent insanity and suicide
But no independent peer reviewed articles that the teen torture industry does anything to benefit kids.
Your main teen torture groups the straights, CEDU have been outed as cults and closed under pressure of criminal and civil prosecution. Your largest teen torture groups tpday (aspen education group, wwasp) are near dead or have admitted NOT to provide medical treatment.
What teen torture group do you represent DRA.
Ive read your victim's sworn testimony. Torturing kids doesn't help them. It just gives freaks like you a hard-on.
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According to people here on fornits the programs are responsible for the kids actions well into their 30’s and if they commit suicide or overdose then it is the programs responsibility. So subsequently the 10’s of thousands of kids who did not commit suicide are the direct result of the program also. So we can see that although the program may fail 1 or 2 kids a year they are saving thousands from dying and therefore are celebrating life because of the work they received from their program.
You make an excellent argument for expanding the present system.
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According to people here on fornits the programs are responsible for the kids actions well into their 30’s and if they commit suicide or overdose then it is the programs responsibility. So subsequently the 10’s of thousands of kids who did not commit suicide are the direct result of the program also. So we can see that although the program may fail 1 or 2 kids a year they are saving thousands from dying and therefore are celebrating life because of the work they received from their program.
You make an excellent argument for expanding the present system.
No.
I know you’re ignorant and dull as one of the corpses you produce, but here’s a hint, killer, that you would have taken long ago were you a thinker at a 4th grade level.
Before making a medical claim, you need what we non-goons call "proof."
There has never been any sort of proof from your industry that has corroborated that their kidnap and imprisonment and “therapiesâ€(torture and brainwash_ do anything positive whatsoever.
On the other hand there has been tons of peer reviewed evidence to corroborate the effects of long term imprisonment, kidnap, and brainwash—none of them positive.
Therefore we can say kidnap, imprisonment, torture and brainwash (the actions of org.s like diamond ranch academy, or Straight, or CEDU for example) cause suicide, and mental illness, and not that they have mental health benefits.
This will be hard for you to grasp. I know, your an idiot, with nothing to offer the world except cruelty.
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I think you just got my point.
So lets test you out at the 5th grade level (since you claim to be smart):
So I ask you, again: "Where is the proof that these suicides are the responsibility of the program?", "How do you hold the program responsible when a kid dies in a car accident, commits suicide or overdoses months or years after graduation from a program"
Lets see what was it you said again, ah yes, "Before making a medical claim, you need what we non-goons call "proof."
So how do you prove what they cannot in the autopsy?
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Where is the proof that these suicides are the responsibility of the program?
There is none.
All you can do is run a study to compare the # of suicides committed by program grads to the # of suicides in a control group. (probably several control groups)
Then attempt to determine what exactly is the nature of the causal relationship, if there is one. (that will be determined by the significance of the disparity) The cause may be the program, it could also be some other criteria that the experimental group has in common, which the control group does not. There may not be any way to even develop a causal hypothesis, and all people will have are the numbers and percentages. Sometimes, that data alone is enough.
Due to the fact that no study has been conducted, neither you nor anyone else, can refute or confirm any sort of hypothesis regarding this. So as far as Im concerned, all of you should just STFU. You don't exactly sound like a statistician, and neither is anyone else here, so nobody is qualified to have any conclusive proof about any of this, whether the rates be that of "success" (which is a bogus, subjective criteria) or suicide. (which is slightly more concrete)
Of course, this issue has been discussed extensively in other threads already, so you either have not read them, or you are just looking to be the proverbial itchy asshole.
Also, re: OP, saying someone had the choice to kill themselves is rather redundant. If it wasn't their choice, then it wouldn't be a suicide, it would be murder.
Also, please fix your spambot. You're leaving a trail all over the place.
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According to people here on fornits the programs are responsible for the kids actions well into their 30’s and if they commit suicide or overdose then it is the programs responsibility. So subsequently the 10’s of thousands of kids who did not commit suicide are the direct result of the program also. So we can see that although the program may fail 1 or 2 kids a year they are saving thousands from dying and therefore are celebrating life because of the work they received from their program.
You make an excellent argument for expanding the present system.
Fornits people are devoted to blaming the programs for everything. If a child kills himself outside of the program, it's the programs fault. If a child beats someone, it's the program's fault. Fornits motto: Blame the cults!
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PSY,
Is there a program that is any good or are you equally predjudiced against any attempts to help a seriously conduct disordered youth. Hypothetically if you had a 13 year old daughter (which is very hypo because you are gay or arn't you?) that was having sex with a 35 year old drug dealer and contracted a severe form of herpes what would you do? Have her go live with Ursus and just allow her to do doobies all day and go out all night and have the drug dealing old man to stay over every night. What is your answer. We are all waiting for an alternative? Now don't be shy you Ursus and the rest of your obsessive compulsive little looser fornits have all glummed together in a groupthink support tank and leveled heavy artillery at the whole world and everyone in it. WHAT'S YOUR ALTERNATIVE?
And leave all your little dirty mouthed responses and all your dirty mouthed fornits responses out of the debate. Just good rational Obama language.
RA
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All programs are bad according to Psy because he was tortured at Benchmark.
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All programs are bad according to Psy because he was tortured at Benchmark.
Matching username and post content is the new black.
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Is there anyway to get a complete case history on Psy. A copy of his psychosocial eval, a response from his parents? Some rational objective material that would verify that Psy was kidnapped, waterboarded and systematically brain washed. What drives this obsessive compulsive narcissistic individual to continue this rag? He is defeninatly a wounded soul. Maybe he should just get more in touch with his gayness and learn and understand that resentments towards his parents and the whole world will keep him sick. I suspect he is majorly depressed and it is recurrent. He seems to also be obsessive compulsive and has cluster B traits. He is incapable of giving a parent any advice as to child rearing or dealing with the crisis of the family created by the kid. He has no empathy for good legitimate parents who have assaultive youth holding them hostage as much as he was ever held hostage
RA
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Where is the proof that these suicides are the responsibility of the program?
There is none.
All you can do is run a study to compare the # of suicides committed by program grads to the # of suicides in a control group. (probably several control groups)
Then attempt to determine what exactly is the nature of the causal relationship, if there is one. (that will be determined by the significance of the disparity) The cause may be the program, it could also be some other criteria that the experimental group has in common, which the control group does not. There may not be any way to even develop a causal hypothesis, and all people will have are the numbers and percentages. Sometimes, that data alone is enough.
Due to the fact that no study has been conducted, neither you nor anyone else, can refute or confirm any sort of hypothesis regarding this. So as far as Im concerned, all of you should just STFU. You don't exactly sound like a statistician, and neither is anyone else here, so nobody is qualified to have any conclusive proof about any of this, whether the rates be that of "success" (which is a bogus, subjective criteria) or suicide. (which is slightly more concrete)
Of course, this issue has been discussed extensively in other threads already, so you either have not read them, or you are just looking to be the proverbial itchy asshole.
Also, re: OP, saying someone had the choice to kill themselves is rather redundant. If it wasn't their choice, then it wouldn't be a suicide, it would be murder.
Also, please fix your spambot. You're leaving a trail all over the place.
There's a quite a lot of proofs. In individual cases, proofs can include testimony of friends and family substantiating the mental state of the victim before the torture cult in question got to him / her, and afterward. You can have journals of the victim. You have the testimony of the particular torture cult’s victims, relaying accounts of torture and brainwashing. You have medical findings substantiating that torture, brainwash, imprisonment and kidnapping causes suicide and serious mental illness.
I will to google some of these reports and post them later.
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Of course, this issue has been discussed extensively in other threads already, so you either have not read them, or you are just looking to be the proverbial itchy asshole.
Please use respectful language.
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PSY,
Is there a program that is any good or are you equally predjudiced against any attempts to help a seriously conduct disordered youth. Hypothetically if you had a 13 year old daughter (which is very hypo because you are gay or arn't you?) that was having sex with a 35 year old drug dealer and contracted a severe form of herpes what would you do? Have her go live with Ursus and just allow her to do doobies all day and go out all night and have the drug dealing old man to stay over every night. What is your answer. We are all waiting for an alternative? Now don't be shy you Ursus and the rest of your obsessive compulsive little looser fornits have all glummed together in a groupthink support tank and leveled heavy artillery at the whole world and everyone in it. WHAT'S YOUR ALTERNATIVE?
And leave all your little dirty mouthed responses and all your dirty mouthed fornits responses out of the debate. Just good rational Obama language.
RA
Well, Geez, how ya been? I haven't heard that kinda language since the Kimball DeLamare thread was last active, and before that ... the good ol' Layne Meacham thread. Ya know, ya really might have more fun here if you just took on a username...
:seg:
As to your question, seems to me if the guy is really as much of a immoral lout as you say (you've mentioned him before), that it'd be a lot easier -- and a lot better for the rest of society in your neighborhood -- if you just dropped a dime on him for one of his more egregious sins. Hypothetically speaking, a hypothetical thirteen-year-old is liable to focus elsewhere after a period of his sustained absence.
That is, unless he really isn't such a lout after all, or unless you're hoping on him being your new son-in-law.
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Do you think there is a chance that Michael C. may opt to check out also?
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Is there anyway to get a complete case history on Psy. A copy of his psychosocial eval, a response from his parents? Some rational objective material that would verify that Psy was kidnapped, waterboarded and systematically brain washed. What drives this obsessive compulsive narcissistic individual to continue this rag? He is defeninatly a wounded soul. Maybe he should just get more in touch with his gayness and learn and understand that resentments towards his parents and the whole world will keep him sick. I suspect he is majorly depressed and it is recurrent. He seems to also be obsessive compulsive and has cluster B traits. He is incapable of giving a parent any advice as to child rearing or dealing with the crisis of the family created by the kid. He has no empathy for good legitimate parents who have assaultive youth holding them hostage as much as he was ever held hostage
RA
What does RA stand for? Though you feel you have the right to abduct and imprison human beings, a major responsibility, to say the least,-- you don't accept enough responsibility even to sign your own name when defending your criminality.
You throw out a lot of pseudo analysis. Let me guess, no education or accreditation in psychotherapy, however, right?
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There are many fornits members that should kill themselves. Wait a minute, it would be CEDU's fault.
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As usual you dodged the question, what would be your advice to a parent in crisis with a drug addicted kid that is assaultive. Do you have any options or just insults and defensive rebuttles. Give us all an intelligent rational alternative, lay off the Fornits lingo and get real for just a second. Quit striving to sound like a Rolling Stone jounalist, your not you are just a wounded little girl thrashing out. Now what is your alternative?
RA
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Does anyone know a kimball Delamare?
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Is there anyway to get a complete case history on Psy. A copy of his psychosocial eval, a response from his parents?
Privacy laws would make this close to impossible. All that anyone has to go on is what Psy says. You can read his pasts posts to get an idea of what he wants people to think.
Some rational objective material that would verify that Psy was kidnapped, waterboarded and systematically brain washed.
Psy was definitely not kidnapped , brainwashed or even abused. He actually voluntarily signed himself in as an adult to a rehab program for adults from 18-27. He could of left at any time, as any adult who signs themselves into rehab can do. They might pressure you a bit to stay, that's their job after all, but in the end everybody knows if you are an adult you can leave whenever you want. Psy never went to a program as an adolescent, he was brought on as fornits admin because he wanted to fit in with a group of victims, and had the necessary technical skills to maintain the forum.
What drives this obsessive compulsive narcissistic individual to continue this rag?
His perpetual attempt to paint himself as a victim of the "troubled teen industry". Even though he claims he wasn't troubled, he was an adult, and chose to go. According to his posts, since his parents work for the government, the tax payer actually funded his hundred thousand dollar stay at Benchmark. The rumor is he still lives with his parents, although psy has not confirmed this one way or the other.
He is defeninatly a wounded soul. Maybe he should just get more in touch with his gayness and learn and understand that resentments towards his parents and the whole world will keep him sick.
He doesn't have resentment toward his parents. That's because his parents didn't have him taken by force, they couldn't of even if they wanted to as he was a legal adult. He chose to go, and decided it was a good idea using the same information provided to the parents. So he feels he was duped, and will go into a long rant about how it was false advertising, etc, all in his lame attempt to portray himself as a victim of the industry. Yes, definitely a wounded soul. But not wounded from any program, this started way before that, as he indicates he's been on meds since the age of 13.
I suspect he is majorly depressed and it is recurrent.
Psy has said he is clinically depressed and taking medication for it. He actually said he has been on Prozac since the age of 13. I'd say that's recurrent, wouldn't you?
He seems to also be obsessive compulsive and has cluster B traits.
What are cluster B traits?
He is incapable of giving a parent any advice as to child rearing or dealing with the crisis of the family created by the kid. He has no empathy for good legitimate parents who have assaultive youth holding them hostage as much as he was ever held hostage
Psy was never held hostage. He claims he signed himself into adult rehab because he was bisexual, and his Christian parents didn't approve of it. That sounds like a pretty dumb reason to me. I think he is just mad at himself for making a poor decision, he should of said no. Now he is fighting to convince others, but really himself, that he is not responsible for his choices.
I read Psy's benchmark website and his old posts. He was never abused, he's just a spoiled, socially akward adult who ended up in an uncomfortable situation. He was homeschooled as a child, with parents who indulged his every whim. So when he finally was in a place where people told him no, he considered that abusive. He lists them taking his laptop away as abuse on his website, enough said.
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That was similar to where I went. It was almost as if some of them were bragging. In a way I think they thought it would inspire the kids to believe in the infinite ability of the program to cure all ills. Me... It just made me uncomfortable to be around them. I had never been convicted of a crime, never even arrested, never even stopped by a cop... and here this guy was bragging about the length of his rap sheet, even talking about the time he was locked up in a psych ward (later died of coke overdose). Another would show off his (rather unsightly) track marks going and down his arms and legs (later "quit".. possibly fired). Another woman had more than a few missing teeth due to meth abuse (later fired for driving the "school bus" while totally tweaked out of her gord)... and the list went on. I doubt it's as bad at CALO but who knows. It's the danger of hiring people with so-called "real world experience".
You mean people who are in an adult drug rehab, had problems with drugs? Who knew!
This quote is a good example of Psy's unusual beliefs. He admits he had never had problems with the law, never did drugs, drink or have any reason to enter rehab. Yet, he signs himself in anyways. They take his laptop away and he cries about it. The staff people scare him because one is missing teeth and another one did heroin, what did he expect in drug rehab?
People like Psy think everybody else is as dumb, and aparently, as rich as them. Guess again. Most people are not naive enough to sign themselves into unnecessary treatment, nor have the money to do so. If they felt uncomfortable while there, they would of walked out. But here we have Psy, too scared to walk out and start his own life, so he "suffers" in silence until his parents bring him back home and he can protest the only way he knows how, on his precious little computer.
Psy is what is referred to on fornits as a 'lifer', someone who defines themselves by their short experience in rehab in an attempt to portray themselves as a victim. I'll give them credit, a few idiots that pass through fornits actually fall for it. Whatever helps him sleep at night.
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Michael R was mentally ill. He would have killed himself sooner or later.
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ANYONE OUT THERE
Are you interested in helping our society, stay posted, we will have a web site soon Center for Anti Defamation of Professional Youth WorkersWe are going to get a seasoned civil rights Federal Court attorney and who ever donates a certain amount will have access to our strategies and tactics to shut down Michael Crawford's little Fornit Defamers and their overall revenge insurgency against some good folks.
This dirty mouthed little punk Che was afraid of the big bad streets of Redlands, because deep down he is a boob and yet he uses profanity that his name sake Che Guevara would consider childish. Keep your conversation going with him he will finally loose it and start talking about having sex with farm animals. Ursus thinks he cute and admires his cruddy little mouth.Anti Defamation Society .
REMEMBER ANTI DEFAMATION OF PROFESSIONAL YOUTH WORKERS...................NOW IT IS OUR TIME. AND WE WON'T USE THE PHONY QUOTE OF CHE GOOKIN, WE WILL USE THE QUOTES FROM THE REAL CHE QUEVARA. Now come on Che Gookin lets here more about beasiality and your statements about having sex with animals............let er roll. You will be helping Crawford in the 10th District Federal Court. What Che? still traumatized from your experience in the ghetto with your little buddy Mikey.. Let the crap spew out of your mouth you little punk.
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Michael R was mentally ill. He would have killed himself sooner or later.
Michael was "labeled" with a "mental Illness".
The label itself carries a huge social stigma.
Labels come from the DSM-IV and are the Bible of Pill Pushing Shrinks and Big Pharma.
There are no medical tests that prove "a chemical imbalance in the brain"
What Micheal was actually disturbed about we might never know.
It is far too easy to get yourself diagnosed with a Mental Illness and be medicated for it.
These legal "drugs" mess you up worse than the problem that was causing you anxiety or depression in the first place.
When we help people solve their problems with compassion and practical solutions to stress, we will see a big decrease in suicide.
Not to interrupt the Trolls At Work, but, elescu, your post is eloquent and well articulated.
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Michael R was mentally ill. He would have killed himself sooner or later.
Michael was "labeled" with a "mental Illness".
The label itself carries a huge social stigma.
Labels come from the DSM-IV and are the Bible of Pill Pushing Shrinks and Big Pharma.
There are no medical tests that prove "a chemical imbalance in the brain"
What Micheal was actually disturbed about we might never know.
It is far too easy to get yourself diagnosed with a Mental Illness and be medicated for it.
These legal "drugs" mess you up worse than the problem that was causing you anxiety or depression in the first place.
When we help people solve their problems with compassion and practical solutions to stress, we will see a big decrease in suicide.
Nice post. Just to add to your thoughts. I have observed that the more successful kids that graduate from programs are the ones who have been successfully removed from all substances i.e. medications, cigarettes, alcohol etc.
Many of the programs tend to try to remove the kids from the medications they were on, if they can, and move away from labels as you mentioned and move towards a token economy. Children with depression tend to benefit from general cognitive therapy and merely just increasing their daily activity which is a programs strength.
Evidence shows that very few students take their own lives during their stay at a program which plays against the view of the very staunch anti-program groups so they need to try to dirty up programs by tagging them with the deaths of graduates 3,4 or even decades after graduation which really speaks to just how successful and safe these places really are and is viewed as a tribute by some.
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It is probably harder to kill yourself in a program due to access of guns ,poison or ropes and pills.
It is also true that you are being constantly monitored if you even have a history of self-injury or suicide attempt.
I think where programs are concerned in my own experience they drive you absolutely bonkers!
There is a lot of thought reform and mind control and straight up brainwashing and torture done in programs.
Branwashed people don't know that they are brainwashed!
A lot of damage done in programs may not even be evident for years to come.
What program did you attend?
have you experienced any of the abusive programs?
All these things are mentally unhealthy, and can not be cured by a pill.
Did you attempt suicide or experiment with cocaine? Your grammatical errors are indicative you did.
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Michael R was mentally ill. He would have killed himself sooner or later.
Michael was "labeled" with a "mental Illness".
The label itself carries a huge social stigma.
Labels come from the DSM-IV and are the Bible of Pill Pushing Shrinks and Big Pharma.
There are no medical tests that prove "a chemical imbalance in the brain"
What Micheal was actually disturbed about we might never know.
It is far too easy to get yourself diagnosed with a Mental Illness and be medicated for it.
These legal "drugs" mess you up worse than the problem that was causing you anxiety or depression in the first place.
When we help people solve their problems with compassion and practical solutions to stress, we will see a big decrease in suicide.
Nice post. Just to add to your thoughts. I have observed that the more successful kids that graduate from programs are the ones who have been successfully removed from all substances i.e. medications, cigarettes, alcohol etc.
Many of the programs tend to try to remove the kids from the medications they were on, if they can, and move away from labels as you mentioned and move towards a token economy. Children with depression tend to benefit from general cognitive therapy and merely just increasing their daily activity which is a programs strength.
Evidence shows that very few students take their own lives during their stay at a program which plays against the view of the very staunch anti-program groups so they need to try to dirty up programs by tagging them with the deaths of graduates 3,4 or even decades after graduation which really speaks to just how successful and safe these places really are and is viewed as a tribute by some.
It is probably harder to kill yourself in a program due to access of guns ,poison or ropes and pills.
It is also true that you are being constantly monitored if you even have a history of self-injury or suicide attempt.
I think where programs are concerned in my own experience they drive you absolutely bonkers!
There is a lot of thought reform and mind control and straight up brainwashing and torture done in programs.
Branwashed people don't know that they are brainwashed!
A lot of damage done in programs may not even be evident for years to come.
What program did you attend?
have you experienced any of the abusive programs?
All these things are mentally unhealthy, and can not be cured by a pill.
No, I am a parent who had a daughter in a program and fortunately it wasnt abusive and was able to help her. I think the part that help her the most was the structure and therapy she received there. she was able to concentrate on herself and get back to her school work and by the time she got out she was back on track.
She was on 2 different anti depressants and a bipolar med when she went in and wasnt taking anything when she graduated. Her home therapist had her on a bipolar med also which the program took her off immediately. Subsequent testing after graduation proved she wasnt bipolar. She presently is using eastern medicine and acupuncture to deal with some minor discomforts but that is the extent of it.
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She presently is using eastern medicine and acupuncture to deal with some minor discomforts but that is the extent of it.
Eastern medicine from China otherwise known as a placebo. :roflmao: