Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Che Gookin on September 15, 2009, 08:14:50 AM
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(http://http://www.orangetoiletnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/straight-incorporated-license1.jpg)
think about it...
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(http://http://www.orangetoiletnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/straight-incorporated-license1.jpg)
think about it...
I think you didn't post their current license. However, I could be wrong.
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Uhm, there is no current license. Straight was among the most notorious, though probably not the most brutal, juvenile TC type programs ever.
Ref: http://www.orangetoiletnews.com/?p=728 (http://www.orangetoiletnews.com/?p=728)
I think the point is that licensing doesn't do the trick.
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yes... that would be the point.
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I think it's better than nothing. Why are the worst programs clustered in the states with the least regulations? And come on, Florida..? are we counting them as a part of the US now? Why not look at a state like California or Washington or Oregon or a state with non retarded leadership , wouldn't you rather be sent to a program on the west coast than in the south or midwest? Why is that?
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Yet another friendly reminder that the state of Washington forbids non-consensual treatment to anyone over 13.
Programs sre effectively illegal there.
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Yet another friendly reminder that the state of Washington forbids non-consensual treatment to anyone over 13.
Programs sre effectively illegal there.
Do you have any proof programs are not legal in WA?
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Yet another friendly reminder that the state of Washington forbids non-consensual treatment to anyone over 13.
Programs sre effectively illegal there.
Ehh... yes and no, but as we all know most of the abuse that goes on in Washington state is via court ordered kids. Those kids don't have a choice in the treatment they get.
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Ehh... yes and no, but as we all know most of the abuse that goes on in Washington state is via court ordered kids. Those kids don't have a choice in the treatment they get.
PLEASE discuss why they are legal.
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May I just say one little thing?
Licensing and regulation can only do so much, which as we've seen in the past isn't nearly enough.
BUT
The point of HR 911, and the reason I support it is because at the very least an agency with the sole purpose of regulating these institutions will be created. I don't understand how having a department of law enforcement dedicated to investigating claims of abuse with the authority to walk in and take appropriate action could ever be considered a bad thing....
So maybe this law will allow some programs to slip through the cracks, I get that, its more than a possibility but I think SOME amount of dedicated monitoring is better than the complete LACK of accountability they have now. and its my assumption that as long as there is an abuse hotline and child advocates who are savvy on the specific issues with the TTI, there wont be too much these programs will be able to get away with before they get shut down and charges are brought against the offenders. I personally hope to be involved with this agency, I would honestly dedicate my life to that job and I know many people who would as well.
I know its hard to trust your government, but just think, the people who are pushing this forward, and those who will be selected to be involved with regulation will be the same people who have been fighting this fight all along, perhaps even some of us. Who would have better expertise? So if the problem is that you cant trust the government to do this job correctly then stand up and tell them you want the job, tell them you want to look that scumbag program owner in the face and deny him the license he needs to continue abusing children. Ya know they say, if you want something done right you gotta do it yourself, and since we don't have the kinds of resources we need to open our own advocacy agency we need to rally for the government to fund an avenue for us to be able to do so.
I may be an idealist, but I like to think that the future holds hope for the children currently held in these facilities, this may not be the be all end all solution, we all know we have a long way to go until these kids are safe, but I think this is a step, a very important step.
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May I just say one little thing?
Licensing and regulation can only do so much, which as we've seen in the past isn't nearly enough.
BUT
The point of HR 911, and the reason I support it is because at the very least an agency with the sole purpose of regulating these institutions will be created. I don't understand how having a department of law enforcement dedicated to investigating claims of abuse with the authority to walk in and take appropriate action could ever be considered a bad thing....
So maybe this law will allow some programs to slip through the cracks, I get that, its more than a possibility but I think SOME amount of dedicated monitoring is better than the complete LACK of accountability they have now. and its my assumption that as long as there is an abuse hotline and child advocates who are savvy on the specific issues with the TTI, there wont be too much these programs will be able to get away with before they get shut down and charges are brought against the offenders. I personally hope to be involved with this agency, I would honestly dedicate my life to that job and I know many people who would as well.
I know its hard to trust your government, but just think, the people who are pushing this forward, and those who will be selected to be involved with regulation will be the same people who have been fighting this fight all along, perhaps even some of us. Who would have better expertise? So if the problem is that you cant trust the government to do this job correctly then stand up and tell them you want the job, tell them you want to look that scumbag program owner in the face and deny him the license he needs to continue abusing children. Ya know they say, if you want something done right you gotta do it yourself, and since we don't have the kinds of resources we need to open our own advocacy agency we need to rally for the government to fund an avenue for us to be able to do so.
I may be an idealist, but I like to think that the future holds hope for the children currently held in these facilities, this may not be the be all end all solution, we all know we have a long way to go until these kids are safe, but I think this is a step, a very important step.
The reason you know it's good is that Aspen Education Group, torture inc, opposes it.
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May I just say one little thing?
Licensing and regulation can only do so much, which as we've seen in the past isn't nearly enough.
BUT
The point of HR 911, and the reason I support it is because at the very least an agency with the sole purpose of regulating these institutions will be created. I don't understand how having a department of law enforcement dedicated to investigating claims of abuse with the authority to walk in and take appropriate action could ever be considered a bad thing....
So maybe this law will allow some programs to slip through the cracks, I get that, its more than a possibility but I think SOME amount of dedicated monitoring is better than the complete LACK of accountability they have now. and its my assumption that as long as there is an abuse hotline and child advocates who are savvy on the specific issues with the TTI, there wont be too much these programs will be able to get away with before they get shut down and charges are brought against the offenders. I personally hope to be involved with this agency, I would honestly dedicate my life to that job and I know many people who would as well.
I know its hard to trust your government, but just think, the people who are pushing this forward, and those who will be selected to be involved with regulation will be the same people who have been fighting this fight all along, perhaps even some of us. Who would have better expertise? So if the problem is that you cant trust the government to do this job correctly then stand up and tell them you want the job, tell them you want to look that scumbag program owner in the face and deny him the license he needs to continue abusing children. Ya know they say, if you want something done right you gotta do it yourself, and since we don't have the kinds of resources we need to open our own advocacy agency we need to rally for the government to fund an avenue for us to be able to do so.
I may be an idealist, but I like to think that the future holds hope for the children currently held in these facilities, this may not be the be all end all solution, we all know we have a long way to go until these kids are safe, but I think this is a step, a very important step.
You are missing the point also. Do you know how Straight Inc. was finally brought down? It was brought down by Rich Bradbury who protested his ass off long enough and hard enough that the state of Florida finally excercised its laws and put them out of business.
The point being made here is that 911 alone won't do a god damn thing. What is going to make something like 911 remotely effective is people like Rich Bradbury who don't give up, and don't accept compromises. He's also the sort of guy who is willing to go dumpster diving for Mel Sembler's penis pump.
The feds couldn't regulate a frat party in a whore house let alone an industry like this sort. Don't depend on a bunch of retards who burned down Waco, snipered half of Idaho at Ruby Ridge, and has prosecuted a never ending war on drugs despite being the clear losers of it for over 20 years.
911 will be effective because of the private citizens who don't accept compromises with shitholes.
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HR 911
911?
9/11 = Bad
Hr 911 = Bad
The govt. did 9/11
Now it will do HR 911
SIGN OF THE BEAST
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911 will be effective because of the private citizens who don't accept compromises with shitholes.
What can private citizens do if there is no agency to facilitate their concerns being properly investigated?
I really don't think any amount of dumpster diving is going to take down the TTI, we need to demand that our government do its fucking job to protect it's citizens, especially minors who's parents are the ones putting them in danger.
So many times have I tried to rally us all to create a private advocacy group dedicated to investigating and reporting abuse, but no one has the time or money to make that happen. The only way parents and kids will have somewhere to go for help is if the government is willing to fund an agency. OF COURSE there will be a lot of work to do before this agency would be able to properly regulate, and I'm hoping for more legislation for complete abolishment of the TTI, but I think that HR 911 will serve as a good stepping stone to get to that point. I'm sure our government would rather pass a law to put these monsters out of business than to continue to pay for an operational regulation agency, but they might need to see that for themselves first.
I say pass it, and as soon as we've seen success at least getting people to recognize the cause, we should have more leverage to pass more laws leading to the abolishment of the practices used in the TTI. Until then, if this is all we have in way of progress I say either support it or stay out of the way. All the "what if's" and "didn' work before's" is only hurting our chances of getting SOMEWHERE with this cause... progress is progress! It might not be perfect but its a step in the right direction and I can't seem to find enough reason to oppose this progress.
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Where does it say in HR 911 that they'll be organizing some sort of federal agency with police powers to regulate programs? Also:
CEDU, brought down by a lawsuit.
Whitmore, Brought down by a lawsuit and a nolo contendre plea.
Benchmark, reduced to a pale shadow of its former self by losing a lawsuit.
Thayer, brought down by a lawsuit.
The list goes on and on.
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Where does it say in HR 911 that they'll be organizing some sort of federal agency with police powers to regulate programs? Also:
CEDU, brought down by a lawsuit.
Whitmore, Brought down by a lawsuit and a nolo contendre plea.
Benchmark, reduced to a pale shadow of its former self by losing a lawsuit.
Thayer, brought down by a lawsuit.
The list goes on and on.
Well then we put our faith in the Turley suit I guess.
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an agency with the sole purpose of regulating these institutions will be created.
What is CYS?
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an agency with the sole purpose of regulating these institutions will be created.
What is CYS?
The Gestapho aren't they?
I'm pointing this out again. HR 911 and the Federal Government won't resolve these issues. The private citizens, or better known as the GDIs of the world, will be the ones who put some of the finer points of HR 911 to work. You'll see the God Damn Independents taking advantage of those websites that are part of the bill to cost the Industry millions in revenues. Hell, one can only wonder how much damage the GDIs have done by citing the GAO report.
I'm of the opinion that the finite resources of the Federal Government will not allow them to be prosecuting cases of Child Abuse that traditionally fall under the balliwick of the States. The Feds will keep their eyes on the situation, but as its a state crime it will be tried in a state court. Unless the prove some sort of violation to the Disabilities act, civil rights crime, or a Rico charge. Therefore, the same old rinse, wash, and repeat cycle is going to happen over and over again. The Feds will require the states to get their standards up to par and to make regular reports to the Federal government in order to receive certain grants.
There is no penalty for not achieving these standards.
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There are bigger issues than HR 911. Health Insurance, the war in Iraq/Afghanistan. HR 911 is at the bottom of the president's list, if it's on it at all.
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Regulation works. It will save the lives of children. Fornits has developed a disturbing case of group think. You can't blame them I guess. They want to work out their differences so they don't fight with each other and can focus on their enemies. But the way so many avatars here spout the identical political beliefs. Regulation won't work! Drugs are good and should be legal! Programs are all bad! Sometimes it gets to feel like a political rally rather than an open forum for all opinions. Thank jesus for all the guests who keep this place humming with interesting opinions. Sorry to break it to you but the world is not black. Regulation will work. Drugs are bad for some people and should remain illegal. Some programs are worse than others, and some programs are not abusive. The world is grey, a bland very boring shade of grey.
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I'm pretty sure CALO isn't one of those nice places or less abusive places.
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I'm pretty sure CALO isn't one of those nice places or less abusive places.
Can you provide proof to verify your statement?
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I'm pretty sure CALO isn't one of those nice places or less abusive places.
Can you provide proof to verify your statement?
Sometimes you're not at liberty to publicly disclose why you come to certain conclusions. That's just a guess, of course.
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Can you provide proof to verify your statement?
This is a good question. I hope Che Gookin answers it honestly.
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I really don't think any amount of dumpster diving is going to take down the TTI, we need to demand that our government do its fucking job to protect it's citizens, especially minors who's parents are the ones putting them in danger.
The laws are already there. The agencies are already there. Yet another agency and more paperwork requirements aren't going to do squat. Sometimes dumpster diving is about the only way to get their attention. Besides it's fun! Don't knock it till you've tried it.
So many times have I tried to rally us all to create a private advocacy group dedicated to investigating and reporting abuse, but no one has the time or money to make that happen.
How did Rich Bradbury & Co. shut down Straight, Inc.? How did Bill Earnshaw, Suzie, Tony & friends shut down KHK/PFC? I think ISAC is the only formally registered organization into the mix there. All the rest are just individuals who barely even get along personally well enough to settle on a place to meet up for coffee. Just about the only thing we all agreed upon was that KHK/PFC must go. There doesn't really need to be a formal organization. Just a grass roots effort, which I believe is practically inevitable as more and more of the up-n-coming generations are comprised of program vets.
I'm sure our government would rather pass a law to put these monsters out of business than to continue to pay for an operational regulation agency, but they might need to see that for themselves first.
"Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master." --Washington
Our government, like any other, is not an entity in and of itself. It is comprised of individuals of the variety that are drawn to positions of authority over others.
I'm not! Check out House Minority Leader, John Boehner
http://blog.beliefnet.com/apagansblog/2 ... inism.html (http://blog.beliefnet.com/apagansblog/2009/04/boehner-torture-and-republican-leninism.html)
In addition to having his name become synonymous with torture advocacy in the War On Terra, he also holds the distinction of having been on the BOA of the now defunct Kids Helping Kids in Milford. (may have been BOD... I just remember one of the Cinci Beacon dudes telling us that he saw the name on a plaque on the wall inside the building before they were escorted out) Of course he advocates torture! He thinks he knows how it works. He probably actually believes that KHK/PFC changed the very minds and personalities of the druggiekids in their charge and he would love to be able to throw all of Amerika's perceived enemies into the same hopper.
That's the trouble with starting a new government agency. Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys.
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Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys.
I dislike your comparison and resent your insults.
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Sorry, kid. You're right. Teenage boys w/ whiskey and car keys hardly ever perpetrate and/or perpetuate endless war, build endless prisons or other real evil. Here are my keys and a half gizzy of Wild Eye w/ my apologies.
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in many cases, yes the laws are there. in utah and oregon they have perfectly acceptable regulations, and yet you see the results. on the other hand I have it on good word that some family leaders at ffs decided that the loosely enforced regulations against making kids stand in the freezing cold and haul buckets of rocks, was too much of an impediment to proper behavioral modification that they decided to move to texas to start a program. I agree with ginger's concern about a new federal bureaucracy. federal standards of care that would be stronger than many current state regulations implemented by states with doj power to investigate and sue states would be something, let's see how the doj lawsuit of nys jj facilities affects reform efforts there. still, bill or no bill, the work will come from the thousands of noisy advocates as groups and individuals screaming for change, mostly of the cultural variety. hr 911 and the bill that may come from it, is merely a tool in that battle. there are certain things that are currently legal that the bill may make illegal, like the ability for programs in montana to intend to humiliate youth in their care, and for youth to be denied reasonable access to a telephone almost everywhere. all that said, if there is any reason why h.r. 911 should be supported, it is because natsap is firmly against the bill. the nightmare scenario however is if jcaho accrditation becomes some kind of gold standard for all residental programs in a natsap endorsed compromise bill.
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"You do not examine legislation in the light of the benefits it will convey if properly administered,
but in the light of the wrongs it would do and the harms it would cause if improperly administered."-Lyndon B. Johnson
A-Men, Brother John!
(And Shalom, of course!)
Ginger
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you guys post the downfall of straight and wwasp and CEDU as a 'success story'. And while i am appreciative of the meaning of the shuttering of these gulags, I cant gauge the fact of the torture and murder of teens in these gulags for 50 years , the torturers getting, and remaining rich from that torture, and the lack of any prison sentences alloted to the torturers as a 'success.' Thus far, the killers have gotten away with their crimes. Lou Woodbury,child murderer, has his own website, pimping programs. CEDU tortuers have reformed in ASPEN.
With the feds ready to get 'emotional growth' torturers, with new rights of subpoena, of search, with reasonable access of telephone mandated for detainees, and will all that is included in the bill, that will change.
The killers of NATSAP and ASPEN education group oppose it for just that reason
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With the feds ready to get 'emotional growth' torturers, with new rights of subpoena, of search, with reasonable access of telephone mandated for detainees, and will all that is included in the bill, that will change.
Most states have a reasonable access to a telephone law already in place. New rights of Subpoena sounds like a constitutional issue to me. As much as it would please me to have the feds with these rights it also scares me at the same time.
Besides.. I read the text of HR 911 and I don't remember it saying anything about new rights of subpoena and search in it.
I could be wrong though, could you do a cut and paste?