Fornits
General Interest => Open Free for All => Topic started by: Anonymous on September 05, 2009, 01:42:14 PM
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Despite the fact that I AM one, sometimes I have a real hard time dealing with some ex-program people. Certainly not all, but some. It seems some of them have this need to debate every damn thing. I could give examples but I won't yet. (I don't want to give too much away because the person could be reading this.) Control freaks, I can't stand them. Makes me really fucking angry sometimes, and makes me want to get away from them at any cost.....help!!! :timeout:
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I would never befriend, date or otherwise associate with any program survivor. No offense, although I'm sure it will be taken, but most program kids were sent for a reason. It's not exactly a group representative of the best society has to offer. Sad but true!
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I hear ya, Tired. On the one hand, program vets are the only ones who really understand some things and I take comfort in their company for that reason. On the other, I find that we sometimes reinforce the program mentality in one another, which makes me willing to chew my foot off if necessary to get away from them.
But what can you do `cept hang with other people too so you get some balance? Take a different tac.
I almost got into an ugly fight with a few friends of a recent ex bf. It was an ugly break-up, violence, cops n'awl dat. He got pretty seriously injured in the last fight; just landed wrong and tore the hell out of his knee. This is very, very bad bc I can't put him up any more, even if I wanted to, and so he's now homeless AND too crippled to work. He couldn't even load his belongings from the curb onto the truck; had to have a couple of friends do it for him. I'm not sorry as in I wish I hadn't done it. I did what I had to to stay alive. But I do feel badly for his circumstance. I wanted to leave him better off than I found him and I'm not so sure I did.
So it just pisses me off to NO end that he's going around telling people that I went psycho and kicked his ass. So when that got back around to me my initial response was to go on the defensive and tell my side of it, which would only have kept the brawl going.
Then I remembered one of my dad's favorite aphorisms; He who laughs lasts. The ex bf is 6'3" at least and a very well skilled and seasoned street fighter with a well known mean streak (he has his redeeming qualities too). I finally stopped and thought a little, looked at the dude who was accusing me laughed and said something like this. Look at me. I'm 5'2", 110lb wet n wearin' boots. You honestly think I could take Dude on in a fair fight even if I were crazy enough to try? He laughed, shook his head and said "No, I guess not" and we all went back to our daily work out of 16 oz curls.
Just take a different tac, that's all.
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ginger, thanks for posting, sorry that happened, too.I' guess I'll have more to say soon, but yeah, the most malicious people i've ever met have been program types Just can't let other people alone. Is that what you mean? I personally have a fear of, and a revulsion for " true believers". There's more to say, but I'm pretty repelled by the Sticky stakcs here. for now, I'll let it go at that.
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just a little warning..a poster named melinda was posting here a while ago and it all seemed normal but then some staff posted her address.. she pleeded that it be taken down and begged and said her ex was violent but it was left up . well her ex went over to her place and shot her and them himself and now shes rotting six feet under. be careful.
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NOTHING SAYS 'I LOVE YOU' QUITE LIKE A RESTRAINING ORDER.
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It seems some of them have this need to debate every damn thing.
NO WE AREN'T. :soapbox:
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ginger, thanks for posting, sorry that happened, too.I' guess I'll have more to say soon, but yeah, the most malicious people i've ever met have been program types Just can't let other people alone. Is that what you mean? I personally have a fear of, and a revulsion for " true believers". There's more to say, but I'm pretty repelled by the Sticky stakcs here. for now, I'll let it go at that.
Well, what I mean to say is that I'm just now trying to undo that particular sort of damage in myself. My first reaction to almost any challenge or accusation has been to argue, debate in a hostile, vindictive, defensive to the death kinda way. I'm starting to figure out that a li'll humor works better.
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It seems some of them have this need to debate every damn thing.
NO WE AREN'T. :soapbox:
:rofl: Well THAT'S good... :D
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hey ginger, many of us had to fight for our sanity in such places, being told that black is white if i say it's so, compelled to confess crimes we hadn't yet committed, to accept as normal and beneficent the cruelty of our captors, the whole ugly enchilada. it is a 'normal' response to a pathologic situation to begin to develop confrontation to defend the self. anything but madness became our doctrine, which can become madness all by itself.
It's a prison mentality. ever wonder why prisoners develop it?
Some personalities just don't 'pack the gear' to get beyond that , to ever question themselves as to what is right and what tis wrong, what's true and what's not. We have a shining example right here on this forum.
also , ginger please don't forget that we have lived, grown up in, a time when intellectual honesty has gone by the way. That also makes very difficult the confrontation of evil, in whatever guise. I have acquiaintences who are international in their lives, wealthy, the product of elite schools ( it's a difficult association, I'm the blue collar redneck they love to hate, the man they depend on when things go wrong, the abortionist, if you will, they hate me because they need me) Any way , these 'Elite' well, their education is broad but not deep, they will tell you, if you have extraordinary patience, as i do, that they have no particular allegiance to fact, that they serve a 'Higher truth". I'm sure you've heard much the same rap in differing form. these are hard times, so seek first the fact, if you're lucky, the truth will follow.
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please don't forget that we have lived, grown up in, a time when intellectual honesty has gone by the way. That also makes very difficult the confrontation of evil, in whatever guise. I have acquiaintences who are international in their lives, wealthy, the product of elite schools ( it's a difficult association, I'm the blue collar redneck they love to hate, the man they depend on when things go wrong, the abortionist, if you will, they hate me because they need me) Any way , these 'Elite' well, their education is broad but not deep, they will tell you, if you have extraordinary patience, as i do, that they have no particular allegiance to fact, that they serve a 'Higher truth". I'm sure you've heard much the same rap in differing form. these are hard times, so seek first the fact, if you're lucky, the truth will follow.
The demagogic propagandist tends to be consistently dogmatic. All his statements are made without qualification. There are no grays in his picture of the world; everything is either diabolically black or celestially white. In Hitler's words, the propagandist should adopt "a systematically one-sided attitude towards every problem that has to be dealt with." He must never admit that he might be wrong or that people with a different point of view might be even partially right. Opponents should not be argued with; they should be attacked, shouted down, or, if they become too much of a nuisance, liquidated. The morally squeamish intellectual may be shocked by this kind of thing. But the masses are always convinced that "right is on the side of the active aggressor."
From his point of view and at the level where he had chosen to do his dreadful work, Hitler was perfectly correct in his estimate of human nature. To those of us who look at men and women as individuals rather than as members of crowds, or of regimented collectives, he seems hideously wrong. In an age of accelerating over-population, of accelerating over-organization and ever more efficient means of mass communication, how can we preserve the integrity and reassert the value of the human individual? This is a question that can still be asked and perhaps effectively answered. A generation from now it may be too late to find an answer and perhaps impossible, in the stifling collective climate of that future time, even to ask the question.
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^^from "Brave New World" -Aldous Huxley
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^^i meant "A Brave New World Revisited"
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^^i meant "A Brave New World Revisited"
Aldous Huxley gave some speeches in the 60s that were considered to be paramount to the human potential movement.
oh the ironeeee
yay. I filled my contrary-mary quota today.
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I'm not hear to fucking debate. Can someone hook me up with a Soma vacation? And I mean the real Soma, not the muscle relaxers what misappropriated the name. I wanna curl up in a warm,fuzzy psychedelic coma. Wake me up when there's a reason to give a shit.
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I'm not hear to fucking debate. Can someone hook me up with a Soma vacation? And I mean the real Soma, not the muscle relaxers what misappropriated the name. I wanna curl up in a warm,fuzzy psychedelic coma. Wake me up when there's a reason to give a shit.
Not a problem, bud.
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Sex is fun.
*note: Captchas are not fun
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but yeah, the most malicious people i've ever met have been program types Just can't let other people alone. Is that what you mean?
Yes, pretty much. It's a bummer, because this person has plenty of redeeming qualities, and I can put up with a lot of things that might bug most other people, but I don't deal well at all with the other things, like nit-picking. I hate being micro-managed. Give me some guidance, alright, but don't keep checking up on me; give me a chance.
Then there's this thing where there can be a quick escalation to the shouting match. As soon as someone steps it up with me verbally, I get 'that feeling.' Hard to explain, but I think you all know exactly what I am talking about. It's been getting better but I still really dislike it when someone starts increasing their verbal decibel level in my direction. I was traumatized by assholes yelling at me and wasn't allowed to do shit about it, and this person knows that, yet it keeps happening... It is at those moments when I think I would be better off alone. Overall I don't want this, but at times like that, I start to think otherwise.
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I would never befriend, date or otherwise associate with any program survivor. No offense, although I'm sure it will be taken, but most program kids were sent for a reason. It's not exactly a group representative of the best society has to offer. Sad but true!
Ok, I've dated program survivors and its easy and hard. Easy because there is an understanding and also, they tend toward independent thinking, which is admirable in this sheep driven society. Hard because they're pains in the asses, and one picked up some pretty mean communication skills in the program. However, your second statement really disturbed me. Some of the most intellectual and artistic people were sent to the program. Not because they were bad, but because they weren't conformists. In many ways, more honesty, courage, and integrity than what the rest of our Madoffized, McDonaldized, society has to offer.
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Some of the most intellectual and artistic people were sent to the program. Not because they were bad, but because they weren't conformists. In many ways, more honesty, courage, and integrity than what the rest of our Madoffized, McDonaldized, society has to offer.
I agree; part of it is this trap we're in, this funeral procession, the one everybody’s caught up in, this hyped-up, fuck-you, supermodern, ego style of life that thinks it owns this country. You can feel it in a stream of traffic, you feel the hyped-up danger close in. Like some stupid, drooling redneck bastard tailgating and he won’t pass. I hate the statement "most program kids were sent for a reason." If that person was serious, I'd like to hack open their skull. Saying this does not make me insane. If you disagree then you are worse than Hitler.
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I've always wanted to be worse than Hitler, so Ill disagree.
I mean, really, I dont care either way, but if I can achieve that level of assholeness... count me as a nay-sayer.
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Disagreeing when they just could let it ride; sowing seeds of discontent, complaining; repeatedly rehashing things instead of picking their battles; increasing the pitch but objecting if the other person snaps and yells at them.