Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Seed Discussion Forum => Topic started by: Anonymous on July 24, 2009, 10:15:37 AM
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anybody remember gleason coming to the seed?
i loved the honeymooners as the guy was a fantastic improve artist.
but, he was a hard core alcoholic. and it was well known.
barker brought a total drunk to the seed - to tell us to stay off drugs and booze.
what a world.
even elvis was nixon's drung czar at the time.
hypocrisy on the u.s. could conjure up.
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anybody remember gleason coming to the seed?
i loved the honeymooners as the guy was a fantastic improve artist.
but, he was a hard core alcoholic. and it was well known.
barker brought a total drunk to the seed - to tell us to stay off drugs and booze.
what a world.
even elvis was nixon's drung czar at the time.
hypocrisy on the u.s. could conjure up.
In The Seed's case, I'm sure Gleason's difficulties managing alcohol were a big part of his draw. After all, what better person to warn one about the evils of drug abuse than someone who has "been there" and knows it from the perspective of an addict. In this case, an addict to alcohol, as it were. Standard fare for boosting morale and buying credibility and ideological loyalty, at least a small part of it...
(http://http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Honeymooners_Classic_39_DVD_cover.jpg/180px-Honeymooners_Classic_39_DVD_cover.jpg)
I've been told that in real life, Jackie Gleason (http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackie_Gleason) was a hardcore right-winger who could be a real mean mother fucker. Nevertheless, I'm still a big fan (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=23018&p=281245#p281515). He was way more talented than most folk realize, and not only as an improv comedian, but as an actor and musician as well. Probably the kind of performer and artist Art imagined he himself could have become, had he gotten the breaks he probably felt he deserved.
Coincidental to Barker's orchestration of Gleason's visit to The Seed, or perhaps not, they're both originally from the tenements of Brooklyn, NY. Moreover, by the mid 1960s, Gleason had also moved to Florida.
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jackie gleason was an icon. no doubt. minnesota fats for one. also, the fact that he scored the honeymooner's theme proved he was gifted in many aspects.
but, my point is NOT what jackie had to offer, but that barker saw a way to use an addict to communicate to us.
what happened to the rule - no druggy friends. or druggy hangouts. didn't that apply to alcoholics as well?
so, my guess is -- so long as it helped puff up the tattooed idiot, it was ok.
so, my guess is - that if barker could sell a couple containers of heroin, for profit, he'd a dunnit.
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and when i was a kid - pre-seed, i saw gleason at haulover shooting a film.
i said hello to him, between camera set-ups and he said - "get out of here kid."
he had a tall thin glass of something in his hand, and it sure wasn't orange juice.
so...
stars are not gods.
he wasn't a god when i saw him at the seed either.
just a hypocrite, like elvis as the drug czar.
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yes i do remember gleason coming to the seed, barker introducing gleason in am embarrassingly fawning way. Barker also had such a desperate need for celebrity ... this to ursus.. In the first and in the main.. what's wrong with 'hardcore right wingers" I AM ONE.. largely as a result of the seed. No, not in reaction to the seed. ( am not against dope, hell that's your choice, but please God spare me either hippies or prohibitionists talking about it! Puhleeze, no more cheap-jack sermons about it Ya know) anyway miami history, maybe it's pertinent, maybe it's not. Miami, as you know, has long been a Mob-town. The italian mob, now the russian mob, cuban, nicaraguan, pick a mob, any mob, and miami is their town. Gleason was long-rumored to be mob property. Miami is, and always has been a hot-bed of espionage, no really, a capitol of the industry.. Gleason had his headquarters in miami lakes and in the mid-70'sa sold it to the association of general contractors, for their headquarters. They had connections with among others, Hugh Sloan, of Nixon white house fame. Gosh, so much was going on in those years.. is that pertinent? maybe.
here's my buddy! ( follows me everywhere) ::unhappy::
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...anyway miami history, maybe it's pertinent, maybe it's not. Miami, as you know, has long been a Mob-town. The italian mob, now the russian mob, cuban, nicaraguan, pick a mob, any mob, and miami is their town. Gleason was long-rumored to be mob property. Miami is, and always has been a hot-bed of espionage, no really, a capitol of the industry.. Gleason had his headquarters in miami lakes and in the mid-70'sa sold it to the association of general contractors, for their headquarters. They had connections with among others, Hugh Sloan, of Nixon white house fame. Gosh, so much was going on in those years.. is that pertinent? maybe.
here's my buddy! ( follows me everywhere) ::unhappy::
I think it's pertinent.
There are also some petroleum-industry-related companies with close ties to Texas that might also be pertinent.
And I think Art Barker's World War II experiences might also be pertinent.
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I think it's pertinent.
There are also some petroleum-industry-related companies with close ties to Texas that might also be pertinent.
And I think Art Barker's World War II experiences might also be pertinent.
For having once been part of an ad hoc troubled teen routine choir performance at Halliburton
(a Daytop contributor), I find this particularly intriguing. Please, elaborate.
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inculcated, i'll elaborate as best i can, but fair's fair.. you too..I began my recovery, if you will, by reading a book by wm. seargent, titled the physiology of brainwashing and conversion..again Miami is an espionage Capitol, I believe that I knew the chief of station in miami,( not with out evidence, tenous at best, but evidence nonetheless) Miami was home to the biltmore hospital, the premier V.A, hospital in the U'S. the place where my father died.. if i have a point in this ramble, it;s this.. we already know of a probable connection between the army and synaon through dupont. there is also a probable connection twixt dupont and barker, and likely through the nixon admin, the war on drugs and so on.. at the time i was a dope smokin 14 yr old, but not all the time, and neither was i blind.. the university of miami maintained some odd afiliations with the int'l assn of chiefs of police, mostly a so. american fraternity,( they run 'excercises at ft benning, and the army recruits the best and brightest of foreign troop there) but heavily implicated in the murder of an A.I.D. man, forget his name, by the tu-pac amaros in uruguay, approx 72. if there was a city in which to place a stooge, miami would have been the one. far from being isolated, this phenomena is widespread. that's my point. people rail against barker here, but i believe that he was only a stooge, a vicious psychotic stooge, to be sure, but for me it's follow the money. " everything hidden shall be uncovered, every secret thing revealed" OOps! Gotta go! my buddy's here! ::unhappy::
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Thank you. Um, I think I’m more confused now?
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that guy is as looney as a 3 dollar bill.
how did this go from jackie gleason to - psycho babble on espionage?
the seed indeed.
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^This from ?????? Mr. Jones?
Pot sees kettle and calls it????
Shinjirarenai!
????????
???????
Mougamandekinai!
??????????
?????????
Kibun ga warui.
????????
??????
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could at least post for others what it reads, lol, next time. :twofinger:
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to inculted, my apologies, i suppose that post wasn't very clear. I 'll try to improve it. And, I guess I'm really hurt to have been critiqued so harshly by a man such as stack. In my defense, how could i possibly have the literary skill and stature that stack does? Who among us can be measured against such a giant?
I had hoped that, being such a manly man, a real man such as stack might show mercy to such as i. No matter, perhaps the time for the righteous manly wrath of stack has come. Still, a man who is so clearly familiar with the ways of combat ( and the costs ? stack?) will sweep the moral horizons, as spake the prophets of old. I only pray he's as merciful as he is wise ( and i hear he's quite a dancer!) for i am not man enough to stand before such a titan.
having dispensed with that, inculcated here goes:
1) My point about miami being a mob town, and an espionage town is this. Miami is unique among cities ( I like to think so, anyway) for it's tolerance for odd goings on. where better for a 3rd rate stooge like barker to flourish? It's hard to make sense of, but consider, Miami is a strange town, those were bizarre times, and the seed is... BIZARRE)
2) The veterans administration Hospital in the former Biltmore Hotel, was at the time one of the premier veteran's hospitals in the nation. There were men being treated there who had been no korean/chi-com "subjects". The univ. of Miami, rosenstiel school of medicine boasted of it's school of psychiatry.
( for a better understanding of mind control and it's aftermath, i'll refer you to Wm. Seargent, english physician, published about 1950," the physiology of brainwashing and conversion" , and donald Mcclean, canadian, published about 1970.. Seargent worked at putting men back together, mcclean worked at taking them apart.) Psychiatrists drink and tell stories together after work, just like any body else.. The Miami psychiatric community knew what mind control was, what it could do. Why didn't these medical folk speak out earlier, and more forcefully?.. and if the army was truly providing some funding, where better to monitor results?
3) The seed, and barker, early on, established a widespread pattern of serious felony offense.. the list goes on and on. In short order they had, to my knowledge pissed off metro-dade police, fl state parole and probation,dade youth services, fla dept. of law enforcement( different name then) and Gov. Reuben Askew ( include the catholics and the mormons in this mess) with such powerful enemies, who can afford friends?
4) Follow the money. Does it seem practical that barker and co. could operate so publically, for so long, and attain so much (financially) on a mere 250.00
per kid? throw in donations, and all the rest, even given insurance fraud.. enough? i don't believe so.
Inculcated.. I hope this clarifies my train of thought, mad as it might seem. let me know iff'n it don't.
p.S. maybe stack won't be mad at me if i say i like to dress up at night and pretend i'm Wolf Blitzer.. do you think? or is that just sick?
Sorry, gotta go..the little guy's gotta go out ::unhappy::
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hey juston good to see the little guy shooting again, :peace:
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…having dispensed with that, inculcated here goes:
( for a better understanding of mind control and it's aftermath, i'll refer you to Wm. Seargent, english physician, published about 1950," the physiology of brainwashing and conversion" , and donald Mcclean, canadian, published about 1970.. Seargent worked at putting men back together, mcclean worked at taking them apart.) Psychiatrists drink and tell stories together after work, just like any body else.. The Miami psychiatric community knew what mind control was, what it could do. Why didn't these medical folk speak out earlier, and more forcefully?.. and if the army was truly providing some funding, where better to monitor results?
Thank you for the reading recommendations. I’ll look in to those authors and their published work.
…4) Follow the money. Does it seem practical that barker and co. could operate so publically, for so long, and attain so much (financially) on a mere 250.00
per kid? throw in donations, and all the rest, even given insurance fraud.. enough? i don't believe so.
Inculcated.. I hope this clarifies my train of thought, mad as it might seem. let me know iff'n it don't.
I’m thinking the take away to be extrapolated here is that you’re positing a theory of an actual experimental or research project of some sort related to the SEED. This would be beyond a mere conspiracy of silence by the psychiatric community…?
…p.S. maybe stack won't be mad at me if i say i like to dress up at night and pretend i'm Wolf Blitzer.. do you think? or is that just sick?
Hmm, that does conjure some disturbing imagery. (For some reason Blitzer’s visage appeared to me superimposed on Frankenfurter instructing the time warp.)It could be effective.
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to inculted, my apologies, i suppose that post wasn't very clear. I 'll try to improve it. And, I guess I'm really hurt to have been critiqued so harshly by a man such as stack. In my defense, how could i possibly have the literary skill and stature that stack does? Who among us can be measured against such a giant?
I had hoped that, being such a manly man, a real man such as stack might show mercy to such as i. No matter, perhaps the time for the righteous manly wrath of stack has come. Still, a man who is so clearly familiar with the ways of combat ( and the costs ? stack?) will sweep the moral horizons, as spake the prophets of old. I only pray he's as merciful as he is wise ( and i hear he's quite a dancer!) for i am not man enough to stand before such a titan.
having dispensed with that, inculcated here goes:
1) My point about miami being a mob town, and an espionage town is this. Miami is unique among cities ( I like to think so, anyway) for it's tolerance for odd goings on. where better for a 3rd rate stooge like barker to flourish? It's hard to make sense of, but consider, Miami is a strange town, those were bizarre times, and the seed is... BIZARRE)
2) The veterans administration Hospital in the former Biltmore Hotel, was at the time one of the premier veteran's hospitals in the nation. There were men being treated there who had been no korean/chi-com "subjects". The univ. of Miami, rosenstiel school of medicine boasted of it's school of psychiatry.
( for a better understanding of mind control and it's aftermath, i'll refer you to Wm. Seargent, english physician, published about 1950," the physiology of brainwashing and conversion" , and donald Mcclean, canadian, published about 1970.. Seargent worked at putting men back together, mcclean worked at taking them apart.) Psychiatrists drink and tell stories together after work, just like any body else.. The Miami psychiatric community knew what mind control was, what it could do. Why didn't these medical folk speak out earlier, and more forcefully?.. and if the army was truly providing some funding, where better to monitor results?
3) The seed, and barker, early on, established a widespread pattern of serious felony offense.. the list goes on and on. In short order they had, to my knowledge pissed off metro-dade police, fl state parole and probation,dade youth services, fla dept. of law enforcement( different name then) and Gov. Reuben Askew ( include the catholics and the mormons in this mess) with such powerful enemies, who can afford friends?
4) Follow the money. Does it seem practical that barker and co. could operate so publically, for so long, and attain so much (financially) on a mere 250.00
per kid? throw in donations, and all the rest, even given insurance fraud.. enough? i don't believe so.
Inculcated.. I hope this clarifies my train of thought, mad as it might seem. let me know iff'n it don't.
p.S. maybe stack won't be mad at me if i say i like to dress up at night and pretend i'm Wolf Blitzer.. do you think? or is that just sick?
Sorry, gotta go..the little guy's gotta go out ::unhappy::
thanks for this post. And hey you guys, lets stop arguing with eachother, we are on the same side!!
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I’m thinking the take away to be extrapolated here is that you’re positing a theory of an actual experimental or research project of some sort related to the SEED. This would be beyond a mere conspiracy of silence by the psychiatric community…?
The U.S., in collaboration with the Brits, have been conducting experiments in behavior modification on their soldiers, prisoners, and kids in reformatories starting at least as early as during the Second World War. This is with regard to the use of the therapeutic community model specifically (i.e., group peer pressure). Why is it so inconceivable that they would not investigate expanding into the private market? Face it, our parents, and ultimately our society, paid for us to be those guinea pigs.
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I’m thinking the take away to be extrapolated here is that you’re positing a theory of an actual experimental or research project of some sort related to the SEED. This would be beyond a mere conspiracy of silence by the psychiatric community…?
The U.S., in collaboration with the Brits, have been conducting experiments in behavior modification on their soldiers, prisoners, and kids in reformatories starting at least as early as during the Second World War. This is with regard to the use of the therapeutic community model specifically (i.e., group peer pressure). Why is it so inconceivable that they would not investigate expanding into the private market? Face it, our parents, and ultimately our society, paid for us to be those guinea pigs.
i agree. but do you have evidence of experimentation on soldiers, kids in reformatories, or kids in TCs?
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I’m thinking the take away to be extrapolated here is that you’re positing a theory of an actual experimental or research project of some sort related to the SEED. This would be beyond a mere conspiracy of silence by the psychiatric community…?
The U.S., in collaboration with the Brits, have been conducting experiments in behavior modification on their soldiers, prisoners, and kids in reformatories starting at least as early as during the Second World War. This is with regard to the use of the therapeutic community model specifically (i.e., group peer pressure). Why is it so inconceivable that they would not investigate expanding into the private market? Face it, our parents, and ultimately our society, paid for us to be those guinea pigs.
It’s not inconceivable. My questions are ventured in order to glean some determinant information.
One such query that I put forward on the topic was posed to you , and is as yet unanswered.
I think it's pertinent.
There are also some petroleum-industry-related companies with close ties to Texas that might also be pertinent.
And I think Art Barker's World War II experiences might also be pertinent.
For having once been part of an ad hoc troubled teen routine choir performance at Halliburton
(a Daytop contributor), I find this particularly intriguing. Please, elaborate.
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this is a jackie gleason post for gosh golly sakes!
and justonemore!!!
i'm not mad at you.
unless you are jstonemore and really do dress up as wolf blitzer.
then i can express my anger in mere words!!!
what's your address?
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heyy stack take it easy! it's not as bad as all that sometimes i dress in women's clothes and lip-synch to katie couric! why, oh why would you request my address? HMMMN? ::unhappy::
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Justonemore what happen at that horrible place when you were in there, what year were you put in??? I was in there, in the 70's, place was horrifying, shocking, felt like I was going to die a slow death.Why do you suppose it was so violent, why do you think they thought they had to force kidnap people kids even??? I think the government was experimenting and it was another form of control practice, as well as a money maker, what do you think?? :peace: ::unhappy:: ::unhappy:: ::unhappy:: ::unhappy:: , nice seeing the little guy again.
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Gleason had his headquarters in miami lakes and in the mid-70'sa sold it to the association of general contractors, for their headquarters. They had connections with among others, Hugh Sloan, of Nixon white house fame. Gosh, so much was going on in those years.. is that pertinent? maybe.
here's my buddy! ( follows me everywhere) ::unhappy::
Maybe. I think it was the Gleason theater where Art initially had his boat docked. I'd have to check that. And my grandfather, EH Hilliard was 1) a long time Stepcraft practitioner (aka professional alcoholic) and friend/neighbor to Jack Sleschenger, who was also said to have been one of Nixon's money men. I don't know how my family was brought into the Seed, but I think it was through the next door neighbors. I won't blow their names. Actually hoping one of them would drop a line here sometime. But I would love to know that little piece of the puzzle and it's less than useless trying to ask my own family.
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to guest with the peace bird,( do you know how cranky and irrascible dove really are? ) and antigen.
the reason that the 'program' was so violent (physically and emotionally) is to allow them to attain total control. if we were not terrified for ourselves, we were terrified for our families and friends. we were kept hungry and tired and scared and disgusted and in pain until we lost the ability for critical thinking, the ability to test reality for ourselves. ( i had smoked marijuana, and there were kids in that program whom IKNEW WHO HAD NOT , and yet they were up there
braggging about their exploits! Whew, talk about the clear light of insanity! the idea was to create a group of 'true believers who would follow without question group dictates, who would be UNABLE to dissent.
A very reputable man i spoke with in the tampa area told me that i specifically was targeted because they wanted access to Viet-nam vets with drug problems.
The son of a prominent family in the indian river area was targeted because of the father's wealth and political influence. (blackmail, plain and simple)
to antigen: very very odd, that gleason and yacht connection, eh? I believe that a trail exists, as much as folks don't want it to. Gleason was also widely rumored to have an attraction to very young girls.. what i know about pedophiles is that they know each other,AND THEY NETWORK. for people who are wired that way, any group of vulnerable young people would present lots of opportunity. this to ursus and inculcated. I'm usually uncomfortable with "conspiracy" simply because 'three may keep a secret if two are dead", and yet, and yet I was interviewed by a psychiatrist named Lester Kaiser in no. miami , prior to the seed admission. The interview lasted 5 minutes, if that. had I known more when i was younger, had i had greater resources, i'd have had a slam-dunk malpractice, and i'm sure i'm not the only one. what about family physicians, teachers etc.? As a kind of "trustee" at open meetings i was told to keep watch for notebooks, cameras, recorders and if someone identified as doctor, reporter, parole/probation i was to let staff know. immediately. Really? in open meeting! to this day, i'm not sure where all this goes, but i'd damn sure like to find out. and, in an earlier post i said that i don't believe that the obvious money adds up.. i think there's more there. also, an aside on the subject of psychiatry remember that P.T.S.D hadn't even been named as a syndrome yet, but it was well known that experiences such as ours could and did cause lasting damage the key to sucessful out comes is early recogntion and treatment how many of us got that? ::unhappy:: it' sok, he's not aiming at the dove
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The doves at my home are not cranky at all, the peacocks also are very happy, sign of any bird is a good sign, What are the worst things that happened to you there? keeping me from my family,and sticking me with people that I never even met, :peace: ::unhappy:: ::unhappy:: ::unhappy:: ::unhappy:: ::unhappy:: ::unhappy:: that only wanted to physically hurt me was really hard, but watching others getting same and worse treatments was harder, I am the type to help, and I was just a child so made it really hard to watch others getting harmed, I got in a lot of trouble for not complying with their rules. I am glad I did, because I think having your soul is far more better then being soul less as they are,how about you, how did it harden you that place??? good to see the little guys