Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Anonymous on August 15, 2003, 07:29:00 PM
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After WWASP, was your child referred to a another program by PURE?
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[ This Message was edited by: KarenZ on 2003-10-17 16:04 ]
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You won't get an honest answer from her. She said she had never heard of PURE when she removed her kid from Dundee Ranch. Only she and PURE know what the truth is. She's made a big stink out of someone from WWASPS contacting her with regard to the PURE tactics and denied even knowing them. She's probably too embarassed at her gullability to admit to what really happened.
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If only she and PURE know, how can you claim she is being dishonest???????????
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I know the truth. I just wanted to see if she would admit to it.
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On 2003-08-15 17:56:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Only she and PURE know what the truth is."
So that would make you PURE????????
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Karen, you said you didn't know if you were on the list of PURE parent volunteers or not but your name is definitly no longer there.
Is this some kind of a joke?
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Karen - you have a home visit with your son, that's wonderful! Maybe he'd like to share?
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I assume that you moved him out of wwasp to a non-confrontational program that has capable staff and appropriate licenses?
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Karen, I'm glad to hear your son is home. Glad to hear he's able to make up some time with old friends. Good ones or bad ones, we all need our old friends to help us keep perspective on things. Anyway, he'll be in our thoughts as well as your whole family.
Sorry he had such a rough trip, but then travel is always an adventure.
As much as I'd love to hear from the kid and see what he's got to say, I wouldn't ask it of him. For one, if you're still drinking the kool aid, he'd be like a cat walking the fence between two yards full of junkyard dogs trying to figure out what to say so that something bad doesn't happen. I still remember my requisite away trip on 5th phase at Straight. It was wonderful to see my brother, to be out of the hell place for awhile and all that. But it was also nerve racking because I couldn't let it show too much, for fear of my mother (spy for the Program) taking it as criticizm of the Program, therefore manipulation, and reporting me.
Wicked men obey from fear, good men from love.
--Aristotle
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Antigen - I never really got a good swig of the Kool Aid. I have been completely free of it for a year now.
Its the others here, calling everyone and their brother liars, I don't like the idea of him having to deal with. He has grown accustomed to being trusted and believed. I'll ask him tho if he wants to take a look, and consider chiming in.
FaceKhan - He is no longer In a program. But the one I transferred him to was so different from what you think of as a program - the word hardly fits. He was offered the opportunity to return as an employee, and thats why he is living out of town. This 'program' is voluntary - the kid has to willingly attend. The kids can call home at will - and parents and family can visit at will. Its very small by industry standards, and is operated in the 'family style.'
The one positive thing we got from Dundee was an abundance of letters begging me to find something else - anything else - which was taken as a willingness to attend by the program I moved him to. That was a year ago - and I am so glad. For us, our family, it has been a real blessing.
Antigen - I know what you mean about friends. One thing I noticed while on the BBS, was how lonely the grads were. Parents would post - she/he is doing well - but so lonely. The kids would post how lonely they were. I never wanted Nathan to feel that way. There are people I have advised him it would be wise to avoid - but he has two good friends who wouldn?t make the grade by ?Program? standards, that I think will be good friends anyway. I trust them to be a friend, and not encourage him to partake of what they know is devastating for him. So far, so good.
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Karen Z., are you saying you referred kids into Abundant Life Academy (the same faith-based program you placed your own son in) but that since their parents begged you for assistance, these kids transferred into ALA "willingly"?
How stupid do you think people are to buy into such flagrant B.S.?
Especially in light of your own (albeit forced) admission that the website you "manage" under the auspices of **donating** your time and resources as "professional parent" is in fact, registered to the owner of Abundant Life Academy?
Second, since your son is now an employee of Abundant Life Academy, doesn't it stand to reason that your promotion of this program could be viewed as a veritable CONFLICT OF INTEREST?
Wise up Karen and quit using this forum to advance your quasi-referral business at the expense of vulnerable parents and children.
:smokin:
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Ginger, sorry about the dupicate post wasting valuable space. It was an error. Please feel free to edit as you wish.
:smile:
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Would you READ a post before popping off about it.
I was only talking about MY kid. MY kid begged for an alternitive.
As for what I promote - I don't consider anything I do promoting. When the situation seems to fit - a boy having problems, a Christian family, a willingness to attend, I will mention them as a possible option. Its seldome that I do so.
As for the web site - That has been talked over and disected several times already.
I don't use this forum to advance my quasi anything. Its you jokers who keep harping on about it.
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Anon you can edit your own post. Scroll to the bottom of the message and click "edit". You must enter your ID and password.
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This whole 'professional parent persona' is nothing more than a sales/marketing ploy used by recruiters to side-step their lack of REAL credentials and expertise in the placement of youth into specialty schools, camps and programs.
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[ This Message was edited by: KarenZ on 2003-10-17 16:08 ]
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http://www.abundantlifeacademy.com/StudentManual.pdf (http://www.abundantlifeacademy.com/StudentManual.pdf)
Karen - is this where your son is now? What makes it different than Dundee Ranch or other "positive peer culture" program offered by WWASPS?
In reading the student manual, the only thing I see as different is the "christian" aspect.
They apparently also use restraint, as a last resort, as well, but stop short of putting that in the manual...just read between the lines and you'll see it. Feedback, peer support, etc., are basically the same, in fact, it looks like they are modeling, to some extent, other programs. It is confrontational, if you consider feedback confrontational.
What do they provide for you, as a parent, if anything. Support groups, seminars or such? I do want to say it's good that you found something that is working for your family. That's really what it's all about. Hope the pass is going well and I'm sure you're happy he's home.
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Karen said: "As for what I promote - I don't consider anything I do promoting. When the situation seems to fit - a boy having problems, a Christian family, a willingness to attend, I will mention them as a possible option. Its seldome that I do so."
I don't see the difference in what you're doing and what many feel WWASP parents are doing. It's a good thing to have other parents in the same situation to talk with. Good for you, keep helping - just realize that it's really not that much different, if at all.
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[ This Message was edited by: KarenZ on 2003-10-17 16:09 ]
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Karen - whoever you are - I'm not as familiar with this board as I should be, but one thing about your post is true. Abundant Life would not be appropriate for any child that refuses to go.
I don't think calling home from day one is actually a plus, unless the kid is at a place of accepting they need help. Most of those calls are filled with guilt ridden pleas to come home.
As long as a kid is there of their own choice, that probably doesn't happen.
You are talking about food. Well, WWASPS schools all have home cooked meals and plenty of it. THey don't get condiments in the beginning, so what? How well did they eat before they left and were condiments important? Their meals are three squares a day, snacks, but they don't have an all you can eat fare. Maybe that's abuse in your book. Not mine.
Your restraint crap is just that CRAP. Dundee is not in my knowledge, but the western US ones are. So give yourself confirmation that you know it all based on Dundee and whatever you want to believe.
I think you're not telling the whole truth on this school your son is in. Betcha the same kinds of stories would be coming from there, difference is, these kids can walk at anytime. So what would be the point in lying to get out?
One's not better than the other. Your's works for you, awesome! Just let us do what works for us and quit slamming something you really know so LITTLE about from personal experience.
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P.S. - I got the same one on one support that you have now - direct your gripe to Costa Rica, not the others.
What kind of a role model are you for your son if you keep slamming something you really know ZERO about other than the few months? your son was in Costa Rica. I take it you never did your own work. Must be nice to be so perfect.
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Anon Friend - I was on the BBS and I know from that, that the 'schools' are all run in the same way, and the parents all told the same lies.
I don't have to have had personal experience with the state side schools to know what goes on. I have spoken personally with many who've been in them, and parents who placed students in them.
They and Dundee differed only in location. I actually think Dundee was superior in ways.
The Costa Rican people have kind and patient temperaments, which helped make it a kinder gentler version of a WWASP program. If they had kept the dam Jamaicans out, the brutality would have been missing. So, they brought in plenty of Jamaicans.
I know what they tell you about the condiments - thats the crap, my friend. They withhold much more than condiments.
I understand what you mean about not wanting to talk from day one - I felt the same way. They use this natural tendency to want to avoid an emotional stressing situation, to convince you to wait to speak with your kid till they say its OK. They told me it would be a couple weeks; two or three. Three or four months is the truth, on average; And if your on the BBS, you know well many parents go much much longer!
Even then - the call is monitored. By then the kid had figured out they had best play along if they ever hope to get out of there, and so they tend to be careful what they say with staff around and listening. They by then know how unpleasant life can be when they are caught 'manipulating.' It takes time to get them to this stage - and so you must wait.
They lied to me about how long it would take. They lied to me about how long graduation takes. They lied to me about the way restraint is used - and my friend - this is a common factor in ALL these programs. The explanation of what restraint is like in a WWASP program is just the same in all the 'schools.'
They never told me about OP; and when I learned of it and asked what it was - they lied about that -to me - the parent - paying the bills - I was flat out lied to. OP exist in the same form in all the 'schools', tho called by various names. You may hear of R&R, or the Hobit, or OP.
I was lied to about the Mormon indoctrination that takes place.
I was lied to about the food - and my friend - this to, is a common factor. There is a reason for it. Its important enough that the new and lower level kids be kept hungry that a family rep was reprimanded for letting the kids eat mangos from a tree, and another time for providing a kid with a birthday cake. Extra food is forbidden. This is why, in my opinion, you are so limited in how many packages you can send. Parents are prone to send food items - and this they can't allow. FOOD is part of the punishment and reward system.
I was simply never told my son wouldn't be allowed to TALK. Not allowed to Talk. I thought that was one of his attempts to manipulate me - but no - turns out thats true - the lower level kids aren't aloud to speak, except to ask permission to sit or stand or walk across a space or to use the restroom. By the way, permission is often denied - sometime to the point the kid can no longer hold it. Humiliation is also an important part of how this program operates.
The other anon mentioned confrontation - no body dose it like WWASP, except maybe those Straight people. These kids are emotionally battered. Its worse in many ways than an out right beating.
You say you know the state side schools - ALL you know is what THEY have told you!
You THINK you know. So did I! Hell, I thought I knew how the program was run - They had told me all the same Crap they told you!
I believed it just like you! I fell for the lies and was just as easily manipulated as you - and I don't mean by our kids.
I'm not perfect. I don't mean to seem as if I think so. I don't mean to sound as if I have anything against you - not you. With This program tho - I do have a problem. My personal opinion is they are evil. I base this on the many lies they told me, and the many conversations I've had with WWASP students, from most of the 'schools.'
I am well aware, as I explained, some kids need a more secure setting. I would even go so far as to agree there are occasions when an escort is needed. However, no kid needs to be treated the way WWASP treats these kids. Nobody needs that. For some it is devastating! You never get to hear their stories. Their dead or locked away on mental wards, or simply missing in action. And in many cases, their parents are still singing the program's praises. They go on forever about how great the program is - and Never mention their kid.
As for the escorts - my own experience wasn't bad. No real complaints - but this is often not the case, and so this to something else that needs serious regulation and any breach of decent and responsible treatment by an escort ought to be punishable by very heavy fines and jail time. The kind of trust place in an escort demands the highest levels of accountability.
And for the Program operator who allows the students to be treated in the WWASP fashion - they ought never be able to look up and see stars again, in other words - they need a prison cell for the duration of their lifespan. In My Opinion.
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[ This Message was edited by: KarenZ on 2003-10-17 16:12 ]
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Karen,
At the bottom of your message, click edit.
You can add your signature or edit the post, but you won't loose the bag.
Deborah
[ This Message was edited by: Deborah on 2003-08-19 04:49 ]