Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: kenhuey on June 18, 2009, 11:05:54 AM
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Hello. As you see by my login name, Ken Huey, I am certainly one of those in the middle of the various posts that have come in about CALO. There have been quite a number of statements made about CALO and our treatment, CALO students, CALO parents of students, Nicole Fuglsang, and about my own character and motivations. So far the vast majority of the discussion has been had without the benefit of any response from those who care about CALO.
I would respond with the most important request I can make relevant to this discussion: Please remove from these posts the names and treatment summaries of the children in our care. I am asking with a sincere plea. These kids have done nothing to any of you. To the person who calls him/herself “well proxied,” if you indeed care about these children do not use them as pawns because of your hatred for residential treatment. If your goal is to hurt CALO by such actions, that certainly is accomplished…but at what cost, at what collateral damage? I expect to take shots on the chin as I try to care for our students. Some people simply refuse to understand treatment or are angry at the residential treatment world for any number of reasons. That said, I have never in my career seen kids dragged into the middle of the fight in such an ugly and unfortunate way as this. Debate or attack me, disparage me, slander CALO, but please leave these children alone. Please.
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Hello. As you see by my login name, Ken Huey, I am certainly one of those in the middle of the various posts that have come in about CALO. There have been quite a number of statements made about CALO and our treatment, CALO students, CALO parents of students, Nicole Fuglsang, and about my own character and motivations. So far the vast majority of the discussion has been had without the benefit of any response from those who care about CALO.
I would respond with the most important request I can make relevant to this discussion: Please remove from these posts the names and treatment summaries of the children in our care. I am asking with a sincere plea. These kids have done nothing to any of you. To the person who calls him/herself “well proxied,” if you indeed care about these children do not use them as pawns because of your hatred for residential treatment. If your goal is to hurt CALO by such actions, that certainly is accomplished…but at what cost, at what collateral damage? I expect to take shots on the chin as I try to care for our students. Some people simply refuse to understand treatment or are angry at the residential treatment world for any number of reasons. That said, I have never in my career seen kids dragged into the middle of the fight in such an ugly and unfortunate way as this. Debate or attack me, disparage me, slander CALO, but please leave these children alone. Please.
You sound like the Bizarro version of Sally Struthers and a hella big melodramatic martyr. You didn't talk to an attorney before giving permission to one and all to attack and disparage you and "slander" the good name of CALO?
I'm of mixed opinion about the kids' names being posted, but you don't speak for those kids, Ken. Quit with the crocodile tears, ya drama queen.
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Some people simply refuse to understand treatment or are angry at the residential treatment world for any number of reasons.
I don't think anyone here is "simply refusing to understand" treatment; I think a lot of people here are quite concerned about what CALO regards as "treatment."
Seriously, what do you think the long-term ramifications are, for disrespecting and destroying a kid's self image and sense of autonomy like that?
Bad parent-child relations, even horrible parent-child relations, and destructive teenage rebellion aren't even in the same ballpark.
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Some people simply refuse to understand treatment or are angry at the residential treatment world for any number of reasons.
I don't think anyone here is "simply refusing to understand" treatment; I think a lot of people here are quite concerned about what CALO regards as "treatment."
Seriously, what do you think the long-term ramifications are, for disrespecting and destroying a kid's self image and sense of autonomy like that?
Bad parent-child relations, even horrible parent-child relations, and destructive teenage rebellion aren't even in the same ballpark.
Stick to the point, Ursus. Huey is asking for the removal of these kids' names (and treatment files) because it harms THE KIDS. Is that so difficult to comprehend?
Your points about "disrespecting and destroying a kid's self image and sense of autonomy" are not only unfounded with respect to CALO, they are irrelevant to this thread. Except that well proxied has possibly damaged these kids further.
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Stick to the point, Ursus. Huey is asking for the removal of these kids' names (and treatment files) because it harms THE KIDS. Is that so difficult to comprehend?
Clearly, I chose not to address the name removal issue directly, for my own reasons. Was that not clear?
Your points about "disrespecting and destroying a kid's self image and sense of autonomy" are not only unfounded with respect to CALO, they are irrelevant to this thread. Except that well proxied has possibly damaged these kids further.
Seems to me that what Ken Huey and Company do to the kids at CALO has everything to do with how and why those kids' names got posted, and hence of utmost relevance to this thread.
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SO..... considering CALO for yer own kid? Or do you already have one there????
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Hello. As you see by my login name, Ken Huey, I am certainly one of those in the middle of the various posts that have come in about CALO. There have been quite a number of statements made about CALO and our treatment, CALO students, CALO parents of students, Nicole Fuglsang, and about my own character and motivations. So far the vast majority of the discussion has been had without the benefit of any response from those who care about CALO.
I would respond with the most important request I can make relevant to this discussion: Please remove from these posts the names and treatment summaries of the children in our care. I am asking with a sincere plea. These kids have done nothing to any of you. To the person who calls him/herself “well proxied,” if you indeed care about these children do not use them as pawns because of your hatred for residential treatment. If your goal is to hurt CALO by such actions, that certainly is accomplished…but at what cost, at what collateral damage? I expect to take shots on the chin as I try to care for our students. Some people simply refuse to understand treatment or are angry at the residential treatment world for any number of reasons. That said, I have never in my career seen kids dragged into the middle of the fight in such an ugly and unfortunate way as this. Debate or attack me, disparage me, slander CALO, but please leave these children alone. Please.
The real question here, Ken, is how on earth did you allow these children's treatment profiles to be accessed by anyone with an internet connection? These were obtained through perfectly legal means. Your facility is horribly negligent in protecting your patients' rights and you ought to be taken to task for that (and fined and sued IMHO). Let's keep the focus where it belongs - on CALO's utter inability to meet basic privacy standards (not to mention treatment standards, but that's another topic entirely).
Are you begging to "leave the kids alone" just because if anything happens (legally) it's obviously your fault for making this info public? I suspect this is a CYA letter, not a sincere attempt to protect children (it's patently obvious you don't give a fuck about that).
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Hello. As you see by my login name, Ken Huey, I am certainly one of those in the middle of the various posts that have come in about CALO. There have been quite a number of statements made about CALO and our treatment, CALO students, CALO parents of students, Nicole Fuglsang, and about my own character and motivations. So far the vast majority of the discussion has been had without the benefit of any response from those who care about CALO.
I would respond with the most important request I can make relevant to this discussion: Please remove from these posts the names and treatment summaries of the children in our care. I am asking with a sincere plea. These kids have done nothing to any of you. To the person who calls him/herself “well proxied,” if you indeed care about these children do not use them as pawns because of your hatred for residential treatment. If your goal is to hurt CALO by such actions, that certainly is accomplished…but at what cost, at what collateral damage? I expect to take shots on the chin as I try to care for our students. Some people simply refuse to understand treatment or are angry at the residential treatment world for any number of reasons. That said, I have never in my career seen kids dragged into the middle of the fight in such an ugly and unfortunate way as this. Debate or attack me, disparage me, slander CALO, but please leave these children alone. Please.
Mr. Huey,
Nicole Fuglsang did not disclose any information about CALO's restraint methods that utilize "bent wrist control methods" during e-mails. Her omission of details pertinent to restraint methods constitute a red flag. Please discuss. I worked for Eckered Youth Alternatives. Whereas I'm familiar with administrative practices, telling parents "what they need to know", omitting details from restraint reports and the whole ball of wax.
Sincerely,
Bob Peterson
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Clearly, I chose not to address the name removal issue directly, for my own reasons. Was that not clear?
Obviously. And why not?
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If your goal is to hurt CALO by such actions, that certainly is accomplished…but at what cost, at what collateral damage?
A spotlight would not be on CALO if children were not abused.
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If your goal is to hurt CALO by such actions, that certainly is accomplished…but at what cost, at what collateral damage?
A spotlight would not be on CALO if children were not abused.
R-I-I-I-I-GT. Guilty until proven innocent. See what I mean about being "open-minded?"
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If your goal is to hurt CALO by such actions, that certainly is accomplished…but at what cost, at what collateral damage?
A spotlight would not be on CALO if children were not abused.
R-I-I-I-I-GT. Guilty until proven innocent. See what I mean about being "open-minded?"
Bob, I believe Guest is referring to her response to you in another thread (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=27613&p=333803#p333803). My guess is this is one b-u-s-y parent.
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"A CALO response by Ken Huey"
or
"A CALLOW response by Ken Huey"?
LOL.
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callow : lacking adult sophistication : immature <callow youth>
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/callow (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/callow)
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MR. HUEY ,
I am personally aphalled you would come to this site begging on the behalf of students @ Calo
Aren't you the same KEN HUEY that wanted all of the eyeliner to be taken from the girls @ Calo ? because in
your VERY own words " THEY were starting to look like HUSSIES ?????????
Is this how you view women ?
What the hell is your problem ?
Please explain how your true care and concern comes into this subject .
I will feel so much more directed .
IMHO - you are the type of clod that could run over a kitten or puppy on the road
and never look back .
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MR. HUEY ,
I am personally aphalled you would come to this site begging on the behalf of students @ Calo
Aren't you the same KEN HUEY that wanted all of the eyeliner to be taken from the girls @ Calo ? because in
your VERY own words " THEY were starting to look like HUSSIES ?????????
Is this how you view women ?
What the hell is your problem ?
Please explain how your true care and concern comes into this subject .
I will feel so much more directed .
IMHO - you are the type of clod that could run over a kitten or puppy on the road
and never look back .
OMG get a life, FORNATICA. He asked for the frigging NAMES AND PERSONAL FILES of the KIDS to be taken of the damn internet. Eyeliner or not!
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The real question here, Ken, is how on earth did you allow these children's treatment profiles to be accessed by anyone with an internet connection? These were obtained through perfectly legal means. Your facility is horribly negligent in protecting your patients' rights and you ought to be taken to task for that (and fined and sued IMHO). Let's keep the focus where it belongs - on CALO's utter inability to meet basic privacy standards (not to mention treatment standards, but that's another topic entirely).
Are you begging to "leave the kids alone" just because if anything happens (legally) it's obviously your fault for making this info public? I suspect this is a CYA letter, not a sincere attempt to protect children (it's patently obvious you don't give a fuck about that).[/quote]
How exactly did well proxied get the information? The staff emails weren't directed to him. And the profiles were posted publicly by well proxied, not by Ken Huey. So, wtf?
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Hello. As you see by my login name, Ken Huey, I am certainly either a troll or getting my ass kicked by the various posts that have come in about CALO. There have been quite a number of true statements made about CALO and our treatment, CALO students, CALO parents of students, Nicole Fuglsang, and about my own character and motivations. So far the vast majority of the discussion has been had without the detriment of any bullshit from those who work for CALO.
I would respond with the most important request I can make relevant to this discussion: Please remove from these posts the names and "treatment" summaries of the children in our "care". I am asking with a sincere plea because my ass is on the line here. These kids have done nothing to anyone but that doesn't stop me from hurting them for my own personal pleasure. To the HIGH OWNAJ LORD (MAS-TER! MAS-TER!) who calls him/herself “well proxied,” [microsoft word quotes] if you indeed care about these children post as much information as you have- and you HAVE to have more- because I'm going to get fucked pretty hard every time you do it and I'm not going to stop torturing children any time soon unless CALO gets shut down. If your goal is to hurt CALO by such actions, that certainly is accomplished… [microsoft word ellipses] fairly cheaply because, let's face it, unless they get captured in North Korea they'll never suffer something like CALO again and posting their names is miniscule compared to what we do daily. I expect to take bukkake shots on the chin as I try to "care" for our "students". Some people simply refuse to drink the programmie Kool-Aid or are angry at the residential treatment world for any number of reasons, such as being hurt repeatedly by quacks like myself. That said, I have never in my career been FUCKING OWNED in such an ugly and unfortunate way as this. Debate or attack me, point out facts about me, tell the truth about CALO, but please leave these children alone. Please. Because I sure as hell won't.
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LMFAO :hug: !DUAL CORE
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Yeah, I was at HLA and having my name posted is nothing compared to what that shithole was like. And by the way, Hi Nichole. Long time no see.
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I think Fornits has managed a new first here..
We've reduced a program director to begging...
WIN, Motherfucker, WIN!
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I think Ken Huey is wetting his pants knowing he's directly responisble for a massive breach of security.
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I doubt that.. He's probably scuttling around looking for the breech and is lashing out at them in anyway possible. About the same as pissing his pants, but not quite.
Unfortunately for Ken Ken is that the Barbie that posted as Well Proxied probably really is well proxied. He'll never actually figure out who did it.
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yes surprise surprise surprise who'd of thought nicole's troubled past would
rain down on her current boss so suddenly ?
this place is like the hub of finding those who move from one abuse center to the next .
well done people i admit i never thought i would see the day nicole would get some repatriations
for the horrible things she dodged at HLA .
The sooner Ken & her stop the bonnie & clyde act and just come clean
will be the day i sleep better at night knowing what she did to me can never happen
to another victim .
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How is it harming children who don't know their names are being posted on a forum online if they're stuck in a program and can't find out their names are being posted? :beat:
OMFG THE CHILDREN...
They're not being affected in any way whatsoever, directly, by their names being put on fornits. However the fact that criticism is being put on the program that is fucking them over rather badly while they're trapped within might get them out sooner, or even get them some treatment to help with what was done to them by CALO! :seg:
So, with this bulletproof deduction of logic, posting their names is HELPING them.
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Hello. As you see by my login name, Ken Huey, I am certainly one of those in the middle of the various posts that have come in about CALO. There have been quite a number of statements made about CALO and our treatment, CALO students, CALO parents of students, Nicole Fuglsang, and about my own character and motivations. So far the vast majority of the discussion has been had without the benefit of any response from those who care about CALO.
I would respond with the most important request I can make relevant to this discussion: Please remove from these posts the names and treatment summaries of the children in our care. I am asking with a sincere plea. These kids have done nothing to any of you. To the person who calls him/herself “well proxied,” if you indeed care about these children do not use them as pawns because of your hatred for residential treatment. If your goal is to hurt CALO by such actions, that certainly is accomplished…but at what cost, at what collateral damage? I expect to take shots on the chin as I try to care for our students. Some people simply refuse to understand treatment or are angry at the residential treatment world for any number of reasons. That said, I have never in my career seen kids dragged into the middle of the fight in such an ugly and unfortunate way as this. Debate or attack me, disparage me, slander CALO, but please leave these children alone. Please.
I agree with you about dragging the kids into it, but i'm sorry. The posts can only be removed by legal action against "well proxied" or with his consent. It's probably easier to get the latter.
What you call "collatoral damage" may very well be people's lives hurt as a result of this information being out there.
@ well proxied: If you were in a program, would you really want the programs' version of the truth being out in public without your knowledge or consent? It's crossing the line. You *are* hurting these kids. This is not the way you want to introduce them to Fornits.
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How is it harming children who don't know their names are being posted on a forum online if they're stuck in a program and can't find out their names are being posted?
* their friends and relatives can find it, and believe it. Not everybody wants everybody to know they were in a program. Many parents hide what they do from such people, and frankly, there is some good in that. Being in program is a stigma for most.
* they might not know about it after getting out (the program might not tell them) and as a result, it might affect them without their knowledge, whether in applying to college or trying to get jobs.
* once information gets out (which is admittedly CALO's fault), it's very hard to put it back "in the box". The very least you can do is say "i won't spread this".
* you simply don't have the right to make the decision. The kids have a right to their privacy and... legal or not... "well proxied" violated that. You're bordering on the "dark side" here. Hurting programs at any cost. Is that any worse than "help" at any cost? In both cases, you're taking personal decisions out of the hands of the kids and taking it into yours. How would you feel? Can you put yourself in their shoes?
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I think Fornits has managed a new first here..
We've reduced a program director to begging...
WIN, Motherfucker, WIN!
No. It's a big lose and actually makes me very sad to see everybody cheering this. The ripples from this will hurt far, far, more than this will help. Have you lost sight of the feelings of the kids in this? Is it all about revenge, not justice? Just because a program director says something doesn't mean he isn't sincere. Many actually believe they are helping kids and in their own way, they do care. Some are completely corrupt, sure, but who are we to judge them all to be intentionally malicious by the actions of a few, or even the majority?
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The posts can only be removed by legal action against "well proxied" or with his consent. It's probably easier to get the latter.
No. It is completely impossible to get the latter, as you can never be sure who I am. Anyone can proxy up and claim to be me. Which is what you're trying to do, get someone to do exactly that and then claim that you thought it was me.
If the names or "treatment" summaries are ever removed for any reason whatsoever I will immediately go on an XRumer-fueled spam spree and put them everywhere on the Internet.
This is the meat of an incident report:
Directly before dinner time Emilia was in a PCS certified bent wrist hold. Emilia let staff know that the food did not look appetizing and that she was not hungry. Staff let Emilia know that she would be hungry later if she skipped dinner time. Emilia let staff know that she understood but was not hungry. Staff made Emilia a plate and Emilia did not touch her food.
They caused her so much pain she didn't even want to eat afterwards, while acting like everything was completely normal. Oh and they have these little zero-to-ten scales of physical and emotional pain every time they do this. Apparently they're not doing their jobs right unless they get 10s.
Yeah, I was at HLA and having my name posted is nothing compared to what that shithole was like.
Try listening to the actual survivors before you shoot your mouth off, Psy.
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I say we expand this web of hilarity.
Here is Ken Huey's wife:
(http://http://profile.ak.facebook.com/v224/247/14/n1247165003_9878.jpg)
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No. It's a big lose and actually makes me very sad to see everybody cheering this. The ripples from this will hurt far, far, more than this will help. Have you lost sight of the feelings of the kids in this? Is it all about revenge, not justice? Just because a program director says something doesn't mean he isn't sincere. Many actually believe they are helping kids and in their own way, they do care. Some are completely corrupt, sure, but who are we to judge them all to be intentionally malicious by the actions of a few, or even the majority?
Fuck Ken Huey and his little torture farm. I haven't lost sight that the kids at CALO are suffering right now. I don't like this posting of names at all. But if this, no let me rephrase, when this gets some of those kids out, and it will, I won't loose a damn bit of sleep.
They can hate me, well proxied, and anyone else who is cheering this on.
They'll be hating us free young men and women. It's a price worth paying for them when they are the ones being tortured in a program by the likes of MR. RED FLAG TOUCHES.
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The ends justify the means? Rationalizations like that are similar to “This is for their own good" …not dissimilar to the skewed reasoning of those involved with these very harmful programs.
The consequences of the kids’ experience of being held and harmed at CALO are likely to be very damaging to them. As are those very real potential consequences to having their personal information and location exposed to anyone even predators. These are at risk children and I don’t see how having the children exposed like this is anything other than reckless and intrusive.
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Is it all about revenge, not justice?
WTF is so terrible about wanting revenge? Many of us will never see "justice" for what was done to us, so why not accept vengeance as a substitute?
I think revenge gets a bad rap, probably 'cause of that whole 'turn the other cheek' jive (misunderstood and quoted out of context, btw) that the Xcult likes to shovel. A desire for revenge against those who brutalized us as children is natural, and, I think, healthy. To not want revenge is, to me, a sign of a disturbed individual.
As far as publishing the names, I wouldn't have minded at all if someone had posted my name on a list like that while I was in Straight. Hell, I probably would have been elated , had I known at the time, that someone was trying to help shut the place down.
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I say we expand this web of hilarity.
Here is Ken Huey's wife:
(http://http://profile.ak.facebook.com/v224/247/14/n1247165003_9878.jpg)
I thought the lady in the picture was Nicole Fuglsang. Is Ken Huey's tongue in here earlobe?
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The end justifies the means. An eye for an eye. The whole world of fornits is blind.
Creating trauma for children is not the way to end it, it is simply stupid and wrong...
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The end justifies the means. An eye for an eye. The whole world of fornits is blind.
Creating trauma for children is not the way to end it, it is simply stupid and wrong...
Of course creating trauma for children is wrong, but I don't see CALO giving them a break any time soon.
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Is it all about revenge, not justice?
WTF is so terrible about wanting revenge? Many of us will never see "justice" for what was done to us, so why not accept vengeance as a substitute?
I think revenge gets a bad rap, probably 'cause of that whole 'turn the other cheek' jive (misunderstood and quoted out of context, btw) that the Xcult likes to shovel. A desire for revenge against those who brutalized us as children is natural, and, I think, healthy. To not want revenge is, to me, a sign of a disturbed individual.
As far as publishing the names, I wouldn't have minded at all if someone had posted my name on a list like that while I was in Straight. Hell, I probably would have been elated , had I known at the time, that someone was trying to help shut the place down.
ME TOO!!
This line of sanctimonious posturing over these kids' privacy is gross from all involved.
CATO uses these kid's photos on their site for advertising purposes. Is their privacy respected there?
Were these kids’ right to privacy respected when they were abducted? Is their right to privacy respected when they are prevented from escaping or "restrained"? How about when they are forced to wear "green shirts" to broadcast to everyone around they are "sexual deviants.” How about when they are forced to disclose personal info in group? And then have that personal info used to humiliate them further?
How about these kids supposed "therapies," "deviancies," and "issues" consolidated onto a tag along with their name and picture, like a baseball card and sent out to their families, and god knows who else? Hey make-beleive clinicians at CALO, DID YOU KNOW "THERAPY" and ISSUES RAISED UNDER MEDICAL TREATMENT SUPPOSED TO REMAIN CONFIDENTIAL?
Is it wrong to print Lisa Ling or Euna Lee’s name because being caught by North Korean operatives endangers their privacy?
Please recognize the bigger picture and issues at stake and respect them accordingly.
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The posts can only be removed by legal action against "well proxied" or with his consent. It's probably easier to get the latter.
No. It is completely impossible to get the latter, as you can never be sure who I am. Anyone can proxy up and claim to be me. Which is what you're trying to do, get someone to do exactly that and then claim that you thought it was me.
That's completely fucking paranoid. If somebody can post a mesage to me from the exact same IP you used in the first place, it means it's you. Just any proxy will not do. A person would have to be you to get it removed. Only you know which proxy/tor node you used. Another way to tell is whether you can log into the account you registered, which presumably is registered/posted from the same IP as your unregistered posts. If you can log in, it means it's you.
Please don't accuse me of being anything but easy on trying to get a message removed. Ginger and myself are VERY careful to make sure it's the exact same person.
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The ends justify the means? Rationalizations like that are similar to “This is for their own good" …not dissimilar to the skewed reasoning of those involved with these very harmful programs.
The consequences of the kids’ experience of being held and harmed at CALO are likely to be very damaging to them. As are those very real potential consequences to having their personal information and location exposed to anyone even predators. These are at risk children and I don’t see how having the children exposed like this is anything other than reckless and intrusive.
:notworthy:
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The ends justify the means? Rationalizations like that are similar to “This is for their own good" …not dissimilar to the skewed reasoning of those involved with these very harmful programs.
The consequences of the kids’ experience of being held and harmed at CALO are likely to be very damaging to them. As are those very real potential consequences to having their personal information and location exposed to anyone even predators. These are at risk children and I don’t see how having the children exposed like this is anything other than reckless and intrusive.
:notworthy:
Then why did’t/don't you take down the names (and photos) of survivors which were admittedly posted just to hurt them by fornits moderators (of all things) or program proponents? ::poke:: I guess you would say, "free speech," and thats a "rationalization" "ends justifies the means" issue too. ;) :jamin:
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All I am saying is that advocating for the rights of children seems laudible, but I fail to see how this goal is achieved with the method of "outing" them. They get used as pawns in a manner that they never gave consent to. I think this approach potentially makes things worse for them, and it doesn't provide them with the respect we know they deserve. Just because they may be being mistreated doesn't give any of us the moral authority to make their names public.
I think we may miss the bigger picture of being advocates and become the very thing we say we dispise...
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I think we may miss the bigger picture of being advocates and become the very thing we say we dispise...
Until we begin abducting, imprisoning, and torturing, brainwashing and murdering people, for money, in coordination with a corrupt govt. becoming the thing we despise is not something we need to worry about.
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Until we begin abducting, imprisoning, and torturing, brainwashing and murdering people, for money, in coordination with a corrupt govt. becoming the thing we despise is not something we need to worry about.
Preach it... preach it.. preach it..
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Failing to get a child's consent is at the very heart of abuse. Objectifying children is wrong, no matter who does it. Because someone else may be worse hardly makes this right. There is always a risk to become the very thing we hate. Again, if we use methods that potentially harm children, we loose our moral authority and ability to reach them with respect or compassion.
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Failing to get a child's consent is at the very heart of abuse. Objectifying children is wrong, no matter who does it. Because someone else may be worse hardly makes this right. There is always a risk to become the very thing we hate. Again, if we use methods that potentially harm children, we loose our moral authority and ability to reach them with respect or compassion.
I don’t come to fornits because of my deeply held belief that children's civil rights are being abused by getting their names posted on the internet.
I disagree that posting names on the internet violates anyone’s “civil rights.”
And since no one claims that “civil right” for adults, it does not make sense to say doing it to people under 18 is discriminating or “objectifying” them. You make no sense, who, as per usual.
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Failing to get a child's consent is at the very heart of abuse. Objectifying children is wrong, no matter who does it. Because someone else may be worse hardly makes this right. There is always a risk to become the very thing we hate. Again, if we use methods that potentially harm children, we loose our moral authority and ability to reach them with respect or compassion.
I don’t come to fornits because of my deeply held belief that children's civil rights are being abused by getting their names posted on the internet.
I disagree that posting names on the internet violates anyone’s “civil rights.”
And since no one claims that “civil right” for adults, it does not make sense to say doing it to people under 18 is discriminating or “objectifying” them. You make no sense, who, as per usual.
Let's see. Would you agree with listing the name of a girl or a young woman who had had an abortion? Perhaps also listing her phone number and address? What would be wrong with that?
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Failing to get a child's consent is at the very heart of abuse.
Yup. That be the core of it.
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They can hate those of us who support it all they want. They'll be hating us when they are free.
Hell once they are free they'll even be able to do something about it.
But at least they'll be free.
Unlike now.. where they are probably being jacked up in a PCS double wrist hold or worst.
Like it or not this entire thing has brought more people to the table of the anti-CALO team. They aren't posting publicly, but they are acting privately.
While it irks me that it comes down to something like this to get people to act, they are none the less beginning to act.
So kids, when you are free.. feel free to send me all the nasty comments you want at my posted Email.
You'll at least be free to do so.
And god.. freedom will never taste so sweet.
don't bother with on.nimp.org links.. I already know about them.
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Do you people seriously think this site is "objectifying" these kids by posting their names?
Do you think the police are objectifying the teens who have gone missing by hanging fliers up around the neighborhood?
Do you think the thousands of people who were been victimized, injured and killed in the many brutal world/ civil wars are objectified because their names are mentioned?
No...? Then why is this ANY different?
I think the principal is the same here, there are hundreds and thousands of kids being "objectified" in programs as we speak, I don't understand the opposition to putting a name to a few of those victims.
I can only assume the intention was to draw attention to these kids as individuals, not to refer to them as objects. Furthermore the possibility that one of their friends or an adult advocate could likely google their name and through that posting find out that the child was in danger and act on their behalf to have them removed is well worth the risk, don't you think? Maybe the parents stumble upon it, and are prompted to do some research and ask us some questions... I don't understand the harm in that.
I can understand the issue of consent, but considering their right to consent was violated the moment they were entered into this school I think minorly encroaching on their consent in the process of advocating for them is a risk worthy of taking. I'm also sure that if a child on this list were to ask that their name be removed they would be obliged, but I have a feeling most would be grateful, I know I would.
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I'm also sure that if a child on this list were to ask that their name be removed they would be obliged, but I have a feeling most would be grateful, I know I would.
From a survivor no less.
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When people ask do the ends justify the means ? by naming
students that are being held in such a place as k-low ?
they need to read up
http://www.caica.org/index.htm (http://www.caica.org/index.htm)
and ask themselves if the REAL end means --- >>>another child possibly DEAD
with the tragic incident ( and names included) plus the treatment centers ( some even still in operation )and responsible .
That is the whole point of why
people are in this battle to begin with .
WHEN is enough enough ??
For me knowing there are parents out there who have to live with this
and no recourse , you would think more sensible people would see the battle is worth saving
a Life of any child .
Being a survivor is not always a luxury . Thats Reality !
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Let me just tell you all this, when I was locked up I could only fantasize that a dedicated friend, family member or advocate would notice my absence, find out what happened to me and demand to be able to speak to me, which could give me the chance to beg for help. But the reason that could have only been a fantasy is because at the time I was incarcerated, Fornits or any other watchdog community didn't exist and the fight for my rights and safety hadn't been established. Perhaps our proceeding survivors were too concerned with "ethics of consent" to do anything that might have potentially saved me from an experience that resulted in a life time of physical, social and emotional scars. Personally I would have owed my life to some one who had started a campaign in my name, and took a concerted risk to facilitate my rescue.
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Let me just tell you all this, when I was locked up I could only fantasize that a dedicated friend, family member or advocate would notice my absence, find out what happened to me and demand to be able to speak to me, which could give me the chance to beg for help. But the reason that could have only been a fantasy is because at the time I was incarcerated, Fornits or any other watchdog community didn't exist and the fight for my rights and safety hadn't been established. Perhaps our proceeding survivors were too concerned with "ethics of consent" to do anything that might have potentially saved me from an experience that resulted in a life time of physical, social and emotional scars. Personally I would have owed my life to some one who had started a campaign in my name, and took a concerted risk to facilitate my rescue.
AMEN
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Nobody is going to do anything to help any of those kids in real life. Their names weren't posted as a favor to them, they were posted by people trying to piss off a program, trolling 'in real life', if you will. Some of you sound like you are packing your bags and heading over to pick some kid up from a program, get real for a minute, please. Posting on fornits doesn't do anything to help kids in programs, sorry to burst the bullshit bubble guys and gals. Messing with programs online is great and all, but don't lose perspective, it's not like this board is a bunch of mother theresa's.
When the kid is applying for a job in five years, and the HR person google's their name, are they going to appreciate it then? :timeout:
Take a look at that list and notice if any of the names are unique, non - ordinary. This thread will surely follow them through life, as people routinely google each other. :blabla:
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Nobody is going to do anything to help any of those kids in real life. Their names weren't posted as a favor to them, they were posted by people trying to piss off a program, trolling 'in real life', if you will.
Some of you sound like you are packing your bags and heading over to pick some kid up from a program, get real for a minute, please.
Posting on fornits doesn't do anything to help kids in programs, sorry to burst the bullshit bubble guys and gals. Messing with programs online is great and all, but don't lose perspective, it's not like this board is a bunch of mother theresa's. When the kid is applying for a job in five years, and the HR person google's their name, are they going to appreciate it then? :timeout:
Take a look at that list and notice if any of the names are unique, non - ordinary. This thread will surely follow them through life, as people routinely google each other.
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Nobody is going to do anything to help any of those kids in real life. Their names weren't posted as a favor to them, they were posted by people trying to piss off a program, trolling 'in real life', if you will.
Some of you sound like you are packing your bags and heading over to pick some kid up from a program, get real for a minute, please.
Posting on fornits doesn't do anything to help kids in programs, sorry to burst the bullshit bubble guys and gals. Messing with programs online is great and all, but don't lose perspective, it's not like this board is a bunch of mother theresa's. When the kid is applying for a job in five years, and the HR person google's their name, are they going to appreciate it then? :timeout:
Take a look at that list and notice if any of the names are unique, non - ordinary. This thread will surely follow them through life, as people routinely google each other.
^^Thewho
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Nobody is going to do anything to help any of those kids in real life. Their names weren't posted as a favor to them, they were posted by people trying to piss off a program, trolling 'in real life', if you will.
Some of you sound like you are packing your bags and heading over to pick some kid up from a program, get real for a minute, please.
Posting on fornits doesn't do anything to help kids in programs, sorry to burst the bullshit bubble guys and gals. Messing with programs online is great and all, but don't lose perspective, it's not like this board is a bunch of mother theresa's. When the kid is applying for a job in five years, and the HR person google's their name, are they going to appreciate it then? :timeout:
Take a look at that list and notice if any of the names are unique, non - ordinary. This thread will surely follow them through life, as people routinely google each other.
^^Thewho
Yes, The Who. Father to a pretend daughter and a dead son. That's him. And he neglects to mention what he knows full well: several kids have been 'leveraged' out of these shitpits by Fornits' members and many more by Fornits' content.
This post goes o-for-two.
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I think it goes without saying that Fornits is not the solution but the catalyst... it always has been. This non-physical, un-organized, biker-bar of a forum can't DO anything... its PEOPLE that can make a difference, people like friends, family, therapists or advocates related to these children that should be prompted to take action based on the information they were able to gather here at fornits, from which they were flagged because these names were posted.
The one and only reason this strategy makes sense is because it registers that name to google so that anyone who is attempting to act on behalf of this child WILL be able to find out what happened to them, where they are and that they are in immediate danger.
So the argument that this tactic may in the future cost this person a job is a far cry to the possibility that it may save their life in the first place. but in any event, I'm in support of pulling these names down in a few years... if thats something well proxied is willing to do, just in good faith I guess. I think once we can verify that these kids are out, we should oblige them their privacy concerning this matter.
I'm setting up a myspace for CALO survivors... Ill do my best to find these kids, assuming they create myspaces upon release, and update you all on THEIR opinion in this matter. Until then I think its safe to assume for the time being, this strategy has its place, and Fornits has done its job by just existing.
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I think it goes without saying that Fornits is not the solution but the catalyst... it always has been. This non-physical, un-organized, biker-bar of a forum can't DO anything... its PEOPLE that can make a difference
Correct. This forum performs a necessary function: a place to talk, organize, and network without boundaries, censorship, or any sort of authoritative direction.
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you are 200% correct FemanonFatal2.0
In Fact word has it ---- they already have such a group Organized.
That in and of itself SHOULD be telling people.....
NO-ONE WOULD CALL THEMSELVES SURVIVORS
IF THEY DID NOT FEEL THEY ARE /WERE VICTIMS ......
I can't imagine how surprised all THE K-LOW TEAM WITH THEIR
INFAMOUS HERO RED FLAG LEADER will become as with all
their threats ,,, IT MAY SURPRISINGLY come back to BITE them in
THE ASS........ by a Class -Action Lawsuit by such VICTIMS .
Kids grow -up and become their own people , no longer restrained
to dish out their own justice through the Legal System .
Bench Vs Crawford is testiment to that . Any Help streering
such people in the right direction is exactly why
Fornits is a GOD SEND , for truly caring for the right reasons ,
Unlike those who CHARGE $$$$ for HELP.
The Real Show will start when the Victims get the
chance to tell MR.RED FLAG TOUCHY ....to FUCK OFF :jerry:
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Do you people seriously think this site is "objectifying" these kids by posting their names?
Do you think I would be objectifying my dead grandmother by posting "In loving memory of Jean Filer" on the internet?
Do you think the police are objectifying the teens who have gone missing by hanging fliers up around the neighborhood?
Do you think the thousands of people who were been victimized, injured and killed in the many brutal world/ civil wars are objectified because their names are mentioned?
No...? Then why is this ANY different?
I think the principal is the same here, there are hundreds and thousands of kids being "objectified" in programs as we speak, I don't understand the opposition to putting a name to a few of those victims.
I can only assume the intention was to draw attention to these kids as individuals, not to refer to them as objects. Furthermore the possibility that one of their friends or an adult advocate could likely google their name and through that posting find out that the child was in danger and act on their behalf to have them removed is well worth the risk, don't you think? Maybe the parents stumble upon it, and are prompted to do some research and ask us some questions... I don't understand the harm in that.
I can understand the issue of consent, but considering their right to consent was violated the moment they were entered into this school I think minorly encroaching on their consent in the process of advocating for them is a risk worthy of taking. I'm also sure that if a child on this list were to ask that their name be removed they would be obliged, but I have a feeling most would be grateful, I know I would.
How about "in loving memory of Jean Filer who lived her final days in a lock-down psych ward of a nursing home, placed there by her neglectful and sadistic family, the Little Filers..."
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I think it goes without saying that Fornits is not the solution but the catalyst... it always has been. This non-physical, un-organized, biker-bar of a forum can't DO anything... its PEOPLE that can make a difference, people like friends, family, therapists or advocates related to these children that should be prompted to take action based on the information they were able to gather here at fornits, from which they were flagged because these names were posted.
The one and only reason this strategy makes sense is because it registers that name to google so that anyone who is attempting to act on behalf of this child WILL be able to find out what happened to them, where they are and that they are in immediate danger.
So the argument that this tactic may in the future cost this person a job is a far cry to the possibility that it may save their life in the first place. but in any event, I'm in support of pulling these names down in a few years... if thats something well proxied is willing to do, just in good faith I guess. I think once we can verify that these kids are out, we should oblige them their privacy concerning this matter.
I'm setting up a myspace for CALO survivors... Ill do my best to find these kids, assuming they create myspaces upon release, and update you all on THEIR opinion in this matter. Until then I think its safe to assume for the time being, this strategy has its place, and Fornits has done its job by just existing.
Don't act so fucking Omnipotent, Fermie.
Maybe you should take up a new hobby, like finding out who was potty-trained too early, or who got after-school detention for skipping classes, ETC. Seems like the possibilities are limitless...
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Do you think I would be objectifying my dead grandmother by posting "In loving memory of Jean Filer" on the internet?
How about "in loving memory of Jean Filer who lived her final days in a lock-down psych ward of a nursing home, placed there by her neglectful and sadistic family, the Little Filers..."
Not correct, but nice try. My grandmother died at home, in her bed, surrounded by her loved ones. We were all closely monitoring her through her last years, and NEVER put her in a home. We hired certified RN's and care takers to help us with the responsibility but we were always around... especially my mother and cousin Rhonda, they were exceptionally dedicated. I have a small family, we are all close and we band together when one of us needs help, the last thing a Filer could be called is neglectful.
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I think it goes without saying that Fornits is not the solution but the catalyst... it always has been. This non-physical, un-organized, biker-bar of a forum can't DO anything... its PEOPLE that can make a difference, people like friends, family, therapists or advocates related to these children that should be prompted to take action based on the information they were able to gather here at fornits, from which they were flagged because these names were posted.
The one and only reason this strategy makes sense is because it registers that name to google so that anyone who is attempting to act on behalf of this child WILL be able to find out what happened to them, where they are and that they are in immediate danger.
So the argument that this tactic may in the future cost this person a job is a far cry to the possibility that it may save their life in the first place. but in any event, I'm in support of pulling these names down in a few years... if thats something well proxied is willing to do, just in good faith I guess. I think once we can verify that these kids are out, we should oblige them their privacy concerning this matter.
I'm setting up a myspace for CALO survivors... Ill do my best to find these kids, assuming they create myspaces upon release, and update you all on THEIR opinion in this matter. Until then I think its safe to assume for the time being, this strategy has its place, and Fornits has done its job by just existing.
Don't act so fucking Omnipotent, Fermie.
Maybe you should take up a new hobby, like finding out who was potty-trained too early, or who got after-school detention for skipping classes, ETC. Seems like the possibilities are limitless...
LOL nice to see my superior logic has the power to piss off you lowly butt-hurt minions.
Now sacrifice me your virgins or you shall be smited by the mighty wrath of the Fermie!
::fullofshit::
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Ferman is vermin;Fermie is wormy
:clown:
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I'll mention your new myspace group/site to the people I know. They might not want to link to it in public, but I think they'll be interested.
You gonna run the same survey you did for Darrington as CALO? Be cool if you did, also send it to the GAO.
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I'll mention your new myspace group/site to the people I know. They might not want to link to it in public, but I think they'll be interested.
You gonna run the same survey you did for Darrington as CALO? Be cool if you did, also send it to the GAO.
Yep, that's exactly what I was thinking... but I'll need to do a separate one to be taken by the staff... I think thats an importand angle to reflect.
BTW thank your source for the list of ex staff... Ill be hunting them down.
Huey is gonna be really pissed at himself for "letting go" so many people... disgruntled employees is not the best thing to start creating when your worried about moles... dumbass.
Side note: Is it just me, or isnt Huey a clean version of saying "shit"????
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I'll mention your new myspace group/site to the people I know. They might not want to link to it in public, but I think they'll be interested.
You gonna run the same survey you did for Darrington as CALO? Be cool if you did, also send it to the GAO.
Yep, that's exactly what I was thinking... but I'll need to do a separate one to be taken by the staff... I think thats an importand angle to reflect.
BTW thank your source for the list of ex staff... Ill be hunting them down.
Huey is gonna be really pissed at himself for "letting go" so many people... disgruntled employees is not the best thing to start creating when your worried about moles... dumbass.
Side note: Is it just me, or isnt Huey a clean version of saying "shit"????
Go femenon! May the abductors, imprisoners, and torturers perish under your mighty influence!
:clown: :karma: :karma: :nods: :shamrock: :cheers: :jamin: :rose: :trophy: ;) :rasta: :hug: :hug: 8) :P :-* ^-^
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I'll mention your new myspace group/site to the people I know. They might not want to link to it in public, but I think they'll be interested.
You gonna run the same survey you did for Darrington as CALO? Be cool if you did, also send it to the GAO.
Yep, that's exactly what I was thinking... but I'll need to do a separate one to be taken by the staff... I think thats an importand angle to reflect.
BTW thank your source for the list of ex staff... Ill be hunting them down.
Huey is gonna be really pissed at himself for "letting go" so many people... disgruntled employees is not the best thing to start creating when your worried about moles... dumbass.
Side note: Is it just me, or isnt Huey a clean version of saying "shit"????
Go femenon! May the abductors, imprisoners, and torturers perish under your mighty influence!
:clown: :karma: :karma: :nods: :shamrock: :cheers: :jamin: :rose: :trophy: ;) :rasta: :hug: :hug: 8) :P :-* ^-^
:hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug:
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I think youtube would work as well.
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Do you think I would be objectifying my dead grandmother by posting "In loving memory of Jean Filer" on the internet?
How about "in loving memory of Jean Filer who lived her final days in a lock-down psych ward of a nursing home, placed there by her neglectful and sadistic family, the Little Filers..."
Not correct, but nice try. My grandmother died at home, in her bed, surrounded by her loved ones. We were all closely monitoring her through her last years, and NEVER put her in a home. We hired certified RN's and care takers to help us with the responsibility but we were always around... especially my mother and cousin Rhonda, they were exceptionally dedicated. I have a small family, we are all close and we band together when one of us needs help, the last thing a Filer could be called is neglectful.
So YOU say...rumor has it that she died alone, with a dirty bedpan under her (At least that's what I heard!)
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Do you think I would be objectifying my dead grandmother by posting "In loving memory of Jean Filer" on the internet?
How about "in loving memory of Jean Filer who lived her final days in a lock-down psych ward of a nursing home, placed there by her neglectful and sadistic family, the Little Filers..."
Not correct, but nice try. My grandmother died at home, in her bed, surrounded by her loved ones. We were all closely monitoring her through her last years, and NEVER put her in a home. We hired certified RN's and care takers to help us with the responsibility but we were always around... especially my mother and cousin Rhonda, they were exceptionally dedicated. I have a small family, we are all close and we band together when one of us needs help, the last thing a Filer could be called is neglectful.
So YOU say...rumor has it that she died alone, with a dirty bedpan under her (At least that's what I heard!)
And here we introduce the difference between untrue and true to the WHO. Saying Fem's gramma killed millions of people not be very nice, saying Hitler killed millions of people may not be very nice (for Hitler), but it’s true and therefore ethical to state.
The difference between untrue and true and the consequences thereof were played out in recent legal transaction: “Michael Crawford v Insane Cult run by former CEDU torturer.”
Verdict: insane former torturer of CEDU ordered to pay M.C. over 100,000$.
The difference between truth and untruth and ramifications therein, in this episode of "talking to crazy-people who troll fornits.”
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The difference between Michael Crawford v. Insane Cults: please supply a link to explain what on earth you are talking about and how it relates to Jean Filer's lonely dirty-bedpan death.
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The difference between Michael Crawford v. Insane Cults: please supply a link to explain what on earth you are talking about and how it relates to Jean Filer's lonely dirty-bedpan death.
LOL!!! This troll makes Whooter's violin sound like a Stradivarius! :rofl:
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The difference between Michael Crawford v. Insane Cults: please supply a link to explain what on earth you are talking about and how it relates to Jean Filer's lonely dirty-bedpan death.
http://www.culthelp.info/index.php?opti ... ew&id=5116 (http://www.culthelp.info/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=5116)
Simply put, this relates to what you call "jean filer's bedpan death," in that people can be legally forced to pay damages for "lies" and untruths, but will not be forced to pay damages for the truth. Therefore, when programs try to sue US for telling the truth, however ugly, they tend to loose.
This also means, if Femanon wanted to sue you for what you said about Ms. Filer, she could and she would win. You would be forced to pay damages and the post would be removed, by order of law.
(note to femanon: please, please sue)
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The difference between Michael Crawford v. Insane Cults: please supply a link to explain what on earth you are talking about and how it relates to Jean Filer's lonely dirty-bedpan death.
Femenon, seriously subpoena this guy's (thewho’s) IP.
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The difference between Michael Crawford v. Insane Cults: please supply a link to explain what on earth you are talking about and how it relates to Jean Filer's lonely dirty-bedpan death.
http://www.culthelp.info/index.php?opti ... ew&id=5116 (http://www.culthelp.info/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=5116)
Simply put, this relates to what you call "jean filer's bedpan death," in that people can be legally forced to pay damages for "lies" and untruths, but will not be forced to pay damages for the truth. Therefore, when programs try to sue US for telling the truth, however ugly, they tend to loose.
This also means, if Femanon wanted to sue you for what you said about Ms. Filer, she could and she would win. You would be forced to pay damages and the post would be removed, by order of law.
(note to femanon: please, please sue)
:roflmao:
BTW I am only repeating what I heard...haven't you heard of freedom of speech?
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The difference between Michael Crawford v. Insane Cults: please supply a link to explain what on earth you are talking about and how it relates to Jean Filer's lonely dirty-bedpan death.
Femenon, seriously subpoena this guy's (thewho’s) IP.
You guys are Hilarious Hypocrites!! :bs:
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The difference between Michael Crawford v. Insane Cults: please supply a link to explain what on earth you are talking about and how it relates to Jean Filer's lonely dirty-bedpan death.
http://www.culthelp.info/index.php?opti ... ew&id=5116 (http://www.culthelp.info/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=5116)
Simply put, this relates to what you call "jean filer's bedpan death," in that people can be legally forced to pay damages for "lies" and untruths, but will not be forced to pay damages for the truth. Therefore, when programs try to sue US for telling the truth, however ugly, they tend to loose.
This also means, if Femanon wanted to sue you for what you said about Ms. Filer, she could and she would win. You would be forced to pay damages and the post would be removed, by order of law.
(note to femanon: please, please sue)
Yes, Vermin, please, please try to sue. If you find an attorney to represent you, you will have to pay a big retainer because nobody would take on a frivolous contingency case like this. Since Guest said "at least that's what I heard," he was not stating a fact. Just repeating a rumor, which seems to be right in line with what all your posts are about. And if it gets into a court, the judge will laugh you out of there and maybe even hold you in contempt for wasting the court's time.
So good luck with that. Using your own word, I think Vermin would "loose."
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The difference between Michael Crawford v. Insane Cults: please supply a link to explain what on earth you are talking about and how it relates to Jean Filer's lonely dirty-bedpan death.
http://www.culthelp.info/index.php?opti ... ew&id=5116 (http://www.culthelp.info/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=5116)
Simply put, this relates to what you call "jean filer's bedpan death," in that people can be legally forced to pay damages for "lies" and untruths, but will not be forced to pay damages for the truth. Therefore, when programs try to sue US for telling the truth, however ugly, they tend to loose.
This also means, if Femanon wanted to sue you for what you said about Ms. Filer, she could and she would win. You would be forced to pay damages and the post would be removed, by order of law.
(note to femanon: please, please sue)
Yes, Vermin, please, please try to sue. If you find an attorney to represent you, you will have to pay a big retainer because nobody would take on a frivolous contingency case like this. Since Guest said "at least that's what I heard," he was not stating a fact. Just repeating a rumor, which seems to be right in line with what all your posts are about. And if it gets into a court, the judge will laugh you out of there and maybe even hold you in contempt for wasting the court's time.
So good luck with that. Using your own word, I think Vermin would "loose."
3 posts in 10 minutes. They're really freakin out. Pretty funny.
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This also means, if Femanon wanted to sue you for what you said about Ms. Filer, she could and she would win. You would be forced to pay damages and the post would be removed, by order of law.
To be fair, it is unlikely that damages would be considered significant. Most likely, little if anything could be gained more than possibly having that post removed.
But... Is this the kind of "freedom of speech" you are advocating for?
Moreover, from an outside perspective, a post like that reflects far more badly on the poster than it does on Femanon.
Also, FWIW, cheap shots regarding bedpans and calling people Vermin just aren't Whooter's style. At least they haven't been for as long as I've been on fornits. He certainly resorts to other kinds of cheap shots, as well as distraction and obfuscation; perhaps he's changed his tune.
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3 posts in 10 minutes. They're really freakin out. Pretty funny.
Quite possibly all the same person really freaking out. :seg:
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3 posts in 10 minutes. They're really freakin out. Pretty funny.
"They?" I don't know about anyone else, but I'm a pretty speedy typist. I don't freak out easily. I did freak out once when a mosquito was buzzing around my ear while I was trying to sleep. I grabbed a tissue box and slammed it repeatedly against the ceiling until I squashed the bastard. After that I noticed my dogs would cower whenever I grabbed a tissue to blow my nose. But this? This is child's play. I've never seen such a pack of loons (IMO) in one place in my life.
Oh, and I hear it makes a difference when y'all have dial-up. You might want to upgrade.
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Since Guest said "at least that's what I heard," he was not stating a fact. Just repeating a rumor, which seems to be right in line with what all your posts are about.
So, are you saying that CALO does not hold people prisoner, does not "accept" "students" through "escort" (abduction)?
Please state yes or no.
Stating "no" would provide an answer that appears to counter CALO's own documentation. If you can provide reasonable evidence that CALO does not involve itself in abduction and imprisonment, I, personally, and most others will no longer assert it that it does.
thanks
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Since Guest said "at least that's what I heard," he was not stating a fact. Just repeating a rumor, which seems to be right in line with what all your posts are about.
So, are you saying that CALO does not hold people prisoner, does not "accept" "students" through "escort" (abduction)?
Please state yes or no.
Stating "no" would provide an answer that appears to counter CALO's own documentation. If you can provide reasonable evidence that CALO does not involve itself in abduction and imprisonment, I, personally, and most others will no longer assert it that it does.
thanks
Ahhh, no response...
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So YOU say...rumor has it that she died alone, with a dirty bedpan under her (At least that's what I heard!)
Well you have certainly proven my point that it is only the pro-programmies that are prone to "objectifying" people.
Were not the ones you should be worried about when people like this you are in charge of these children's welfare.
Furthermore, disgracing my grandmothers death only reflects badly upon you, I honor her, as we honor the children who need our assistance, and you take the opportunity to objectify them.
I'm having a hard time imagining any sort of grown man would even say things like this... you can't seriously be mentally stable. I feel sorry for you that this is the kind of thing you have resorted to in order to get attention, or some sick pleasure, but I can only assume its a result of a lifetime of misery.
SO for that, I must concede, I will no longer participate in a conversation that further disrespects my family and I ask that other posters refrain from giving this guy the attention he needs to get his rocks off as well. He is only using this disgraceful strategy to revert our attention from the topic at hand... which as I have heard is quite the intention of the whooter, only seems he might be feeling a bit more desperate than usual, hence the stoop to an all time low.
Sad. It really is sad. I guess there just are some really demented people out there.
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So YOU say...rumor has it that she died alone, with a dirty bedpan under her (At least that's what I heard!)
Well you have certainly proven my point that it is only the pro-programmies that are prone to "objectifying" people.
Were not the ones you should be worried about when people like this you are in charge of these children's welfare.
Furthermore, disgracing my grandmothers death only reflects badly upon you, I honor her, as we honor the children who need our assistance, and you take the opportunity to objectify them.
I'm having a hard time imagining any sort of grown man would even say things like this... you can't seriously be mentally stable. I feel sorry for you that this is the kind of thing you have resorted to in order to get attention, or some sick pleasure, but I can only assume its a result of a lifetime of misery.
SO for that, I must concede, I will no longer participate in a conversation that further disrespects my family and I ask that other posters refrain from giving this guy the attention he needs to get his rocks off as well. He is only using this disgraceful strategy to revert our attention from the topic at hand... which as I have heard is quite the intention of the whooter, only seems he might be feeling a bit more desperate than usual, hence the stoop to an all time low.
Sad. It really is sad. I guess there just are some really demented people out there.
Femanon, sue thewho. Get his identity or the child-abuse proponant's identity. Make us smile.
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Since Guest said "at least that's what I heard," he was not stating a fact. Just repeating a rumor, which seems to be right in line with what all your posts are about.
So, are you saying that CALO does not hold people prisoner, does not "accept" "students" through "escort" (abduction)?
Please state yes or no.
Stating "no" would provide an answer that appears to counter CALO's own documentation. If you can provide reasonable evidence that CALO does not involve itself in abduction and imprisonment, I, personally, and most others will no longer assert it that it does.
thanks
Quite frankly, I have no idea.I've just been trying to figure out how you came to have a beef with this particular school. I don't know much about it, but I very much like the concept of interaction between the students and the dogs. All of these kids have attachment problems, from what I understand. And giving them the responsibilities and care of dogs, who love unconditionally, seems to be a good idea. Children who were adopted after the first year or so, and were adopted from an institutional setting, do tend to have problems that children adopted as newborns don't have.
If you could give me some solid links (not blogs or peoples' websites, but actual news reports and published research) I very much would like to read more about this "torture" you claim is going on there. How many CALO graduates have you interviewed? What questions were asked? Have you looked at their behavioral history prior to their attendance at CALO (regardless of how they got there)? Do you doubt that parents have explored every possible option before taking the big (and expensive) step of sending a child to a residential therapeutic setting?
Please explain to me just how CALO got between your crosshairs, what research you've done to back up your claims, and why you feel it necessary to put children's treatment reports online where the world can see them. That can potentially do more damage than you claim the school is doing. I don't have a dog in this fight, but from what I see here, it's hard to avoid coming to the conclusion that this is a crazy bunch of domestic terrorists.
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This also means, if Femanon wanted to sue you for what you said about Ms. Filer, she could and she would win. You would be forced to pay damages and the post would be removed, by order of law.
To be fair, it is unlikely that damages would be considered significant. Most likely, little if anything could be gained more than possibly having that post removed.
But... Is this the kind of "freedom of speech" you are advocating for?
Moreover, from an outside perspective, a post like that reflects far more badly on the poster than it does on Femanon.
Also, FWIW, cheap shots regarding bedpans and calling people Vermin just aren't Whooter's style. At least they haven't been for as long as I've been on fornits. He certainly resorts to other kinds of cheap shots, as well as distraction and obfuscation; perhaps he's changed his tune.
Everything you say makes a lot of sense. I am only responding to this poster’s BS that you can say ANYTHING on the internet without fear of reprisal. People are sued daily, hourly for libel and many suits are successful. However, first and foremost, if someone is telling the TRUTH the suits will fail.
The "there's nothing you can do about libel" canard is the new LIE programs hide behind as a way to explain their inaction regarding the TRUTH printed on sites throughout the internet about their gulags.
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"Everything you say makes a lot of sense. I am only responding to this poster’s BS that you can say ANYTHING on the internet without fear of reprisal. People are sued daily, hourly for libel and many suits are successful. However, first and foremost, if someone is telling the TRUTH the suits will fail.
The "there's nothing you can do about libel" canard is the new LIE programs hide behind as a way to explain their inaction regarding the TRUTH printed on sites throughout the internet about their gulags."
Well, I guess we all see the point, don't we? I can make up or repeat rumours that then carry on a life of their own...F. can get upset about casting aspersions against her family, yet thinks it is OK to denigrate strangers and for that matter institutions of which she has no first-hand knowledge.
Unbelievably ironic that a hub-hub has arisen about lawsuits against me for far-fetched claims about Fermanon's family - here on this site where she and others make the most outrageous and ugly claims against "program" parents and others.
Sorry, honey dears, but what is good for the goose is good for the gander, so get over yourselves and maybe you will learn the lesson I intended!
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Since Guest said "at least that's what I heard," he was not stating a fact. Just repeating a rumor, which seems to be right in line with what all your posts are about.
So, are you saying that CALO does not hold people prisoner, does not "accept" "students" through "escort" (abduction)?
Please state yes or no.
Stating "no" would provide an answer that appears to counter CALO's own documentation. If you can provide reasonable evidence that CALO does not involve itself in abduction and imprisonment, I, personally, and most others will no longer assert it that it does.
thanks
Quite frankly, I have no idea.
Well, you should educate yourself, then. I hope you have the intelligence and compassion necessary to understand once an organization begins abducting and holding human beings prisoner, it ceases to be a "school," it becomes a for-profit, extra-judical gulag.
I've just been trying to figure out how you came to have a beef with this particular school.
Using those same, seemingly yet to kick-in, thought processes YOU figure out why we “have a problem” with a “school” that abducts and holds American citizens prisoner without due process.
Being kidnapped and imprisoned is a violation of one’s BASIC human rights. It is extraordinarily mentally damaging as well, as is OBVIOUS.
http://www.newssafety.org/index.php?opt ... mid=100508 (http://www.newssafety.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5833:kidnapped-journalists-need-counselling&catid=536:hostage-center&Itemid=100508)
http://www.cbm.org/en/general/CBM_EV_EN ... 36535.html (http://www.cbm.org/en/general/CBM_EV_EN_general_article_36535.html)
http://books.google.com/books?id=JV7u70 ... t&resnum=4 (http://books.google.com/books?id=JV7u70L_xiEC&pg=PA68&lpg=PA68&dq=kidnapping+psychological+trauma&source=bl&ots=-USHgHoOqJ&sig=tshZ2xXUrmc0gGf9lUk_Ln-7KkY&hl=en&ei=O_4-SonXPIXKtgf83720Bg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4)
http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:naS ... clnk&gl=us (http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:naSo3Sh9PwwJ:www.johnbriere.com/PTC_paper.htm+kidnapping+psychological+trauma&cd=5&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us)
http://www.alertnet.org/db/blogs/29542/ ... fc1e9a.htm (http://www.alertnet.org/db/blogs/29542/3e0fc34d3c7c48fea2d1143809fc1e9a.htm)
http://books.google.com/books?id=Dp2gi8 ... t&resnum=7 (http://books.google.com/books?id=Dp2gi8t8zLEC&pg=PA4&lpg=PA4&dq=kidnapping+psychological+trauma&source=bl&ots=lZIo0rN1ie&sig=08zEtLcn0Mu-lbhVwFjRfscJRb4&hl=en&ei=O_4-SonXPIXKtgf83720Bg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7)
http://books.google.com/books?id=3_wTck ... &resnum=10 (http://books.google.com/books?id=3_wTck5iC6MC&pg=PA35&lpg=PA35&dq=kidnapping+psychological+trauma&source=bl&ots=RSWSxKXobr&sig=5rRA3eavIseoLerptYOg9CMflIE&hl=en&ei=O_4-SonXPIXKtgf83720Bg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10)
And being kidnapped by a plot put in place by your own parents under the premise you are “bad” or “mentally ill” in the context of the tacit support supposedly democratic, civil rights respecting country makes it much worse.
Being held prisoner is also EXTRADINARILY DAMANGING
http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:Qoj ... clnk&gl=us (http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:QojStWHp-8UJ:www.uplink.com.au/lawlibrary/Documents/Docs/Doc82.html+psychological+effect+imprisonment&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us)
http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:EUf ... clnk&gl=us (http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:EUfQ7WdXbpoJ:aspe.hhs.gov/HSP/prison2home02/Haney.htm+psychological+effect+imprisonment&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us)
http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:-9a ... clnk&gl=us (http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:-9aJ5EyZp0MJ:www.johnhoward.ab.ca/PUB/C35.htm+psychological+effect+imprisonment&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us)
I could google up a 1000 more of these links, but you get the idea.
I don't have a dog in this fight, but from what I see here, it's hard to avoid coming to the conclusion that this is a crazy bunch of domestic terrorists.
You have no “dog in this fight,” just came across this site randomly and decided to start off by stating how CALO is fantatic. Somehow I doubt it. My guess is you are TheWho.
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I'm not going to quote the long post with all the links. Just too much scrolling required. But the questions I asked were not answered. The links had nothing to do with CALO. I asked for links that would show that torture exists at CALO. You gave me a lot of links concerning kidnapping, psychological damage, blahblahblah, but oddly, there was no mention of any of this occurring at CALO.
Again I ask: How did your beef with CALO originate? Why are you so stridently determined to attack the school and, ironically, its STUDENTS you claim to be so concerned about. You say I should educate myself about these abductions. Isn't that what I'm trying to do? I am sincerely trying to find out what happens, if students are woken in the night and dragged out of their homes with hoods over their head and shackles on their arms and legs, and transported to CALO. You claim they are abducted, but when asked, you refuse to back that up. So please educate me.
Have you visited this school? Have you seen reliable reports that the students are being held prisoner, which is, as you said "EXTRADINARILY DAMANGING" (by the way, if you use Firefox, you'll have a built-in spell checker, which may give you more credibility as to your own education).
Please show me where I said the school is "fantatic," or even "fantastic." I said I like the idea of the students bonding with dogs. Aside from that, I know nothing about the school. In fact, I think you probably know less than I do, since you can't answer any questions about it. You seemed to have jumped on a bandwagon without knowing where it's going.
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I'm not going to quote the long post with all the links. Just too much scrolling required. But the questions I asked were not answered. The links had nothing to do with CALO. I asked for links that would show that torture exists at CALO. You gave me a lot of links concerning kidnapping, psychological damage, blahblahblah, but oddly, there was no mention of any of this occurring at CALO.
Again I ask: How did your beef with CALO originate? Why are you so stridently determined to attack the school and, ironically, its STUDENTS you claim to be so concerned about. You say I should educate myself about these abductions. Isn't that what I'm trying to do? I am sincerely trying to find out what happens, if students are woken in the night and dragged out of their homes with hoods over their head and shackles on their arms and legs, and transported to CALO. You claim they are abducted, but when asked, you refuse to back that up. So please educate me.
Have you visited this school? Have you seen reliable reports that the students are being held prisoner, which is, as you said "EXTRADINARILY DAMANGING" (by the way, if you use Firefox, you'll have a built-in spell checker, which may give you more credibility as to your own education).
Please show me where I said the school is "fantatic," or even "fantastic." I said I like the idea of the students bonding with dogs. Aside from that, I know nothing about the school. In fact, I think you probably know less than I do, since you can't answer any questions about it. You seemed to have jumped on a bandwagon without knowing where it's going.
I know, when you cannot think soundly enough to respond substantively, you gotta focus on the typos.
Poor, sad, creature... if you weren't such a moron you would have noticed I ANSWERED your question. To restate myself:
our "beef" with Change Academy STARTS with the FACT it abducts and holds people prisoner.
That is a SERIOUS issue, and quite enough to generate “beef.” Dontcha think? Or perhaps I should kidnap and imprison you a couple years to give you some free insight into the issue.
It continues beyond that, of course, but to save myself a lot of linking and explaining things to an idiot that answer is more than sufficient
Curious, since you have no “dog in this fight” how did you come to this corner of the interweb, a forum for survivors of the “troubled teen” abduction, imprisonment, and torture industry, and the folk who earn their keep in that peculiar institution. Feel free to be creative with your unlikely story.
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I'm not going to quote the long post with all the links. Just too much scrolling required. But the questions I asked were not answered. The links had nothing to do with CALO. I asked for links that would show that torture exists at CALO. You gave me a lot of links concerning kidnapping, psychological damage, blahblahblah, but oddly, there was no mention of any of this occurring at CALO.
Again I ask: How did your beef with CALO originate? Why are you so stridently determined to attack the school and, ironically, its STUDENTS you claim to be so concerned about. You say I should educate myself about these abductions. Isn't that what I'm trying to do? I am sincerely trying to find out what happens, if students are woken in the night and dragged out of their homes with hoods over their head and shackles on their arms and legs, and transported to CALO. You claim they are abducted, but when asked, you refuse to back that up. So please educate me.
Have you visited this school? Have you seen reliable reports that the students are being held prisoner, which is, as you said "EXTRADINARILY DAMANGING" (by the way, if you use Firefox, you'll have a built-in spell checker, which may give you more credibility as to your own education).
Please show me where I said the school is "fantatic," or even "fantastic." I said I like the idea of the students bonding with dogs. Aside from that, I know nothing about the school. In fact, I think you probably know less than I do, since you can't answer any questions about it. You seemed to have jumped on a bandwagon without knowing where it's going.
http://fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php? ... 9&start=15 (http://fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=27749&start=15) > Read the first post, then research restraints based around "bent wrist control and variations." This is what originally started our investigation into CALO.
http://fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=27761 (http://fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=27761) > There are allot of schools that use Positive Control Systems which is frightening. When a child is restrained by a staff who utilizes Positive Control Systems, he or she thinks, "I must comply to avoid physical pain."
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Again I ask: How did your beef with CALO originate? Why are you so stridently determined to attack the school and, ironically, its STUDENTS you claim to be so concerned about.
The reason we usually have to intervene, most of us are survivors or otherwise have other personal ties to what goes on in these facilities and it isnt uncommon for us to share stories. I wouldn't disgrace a sources experience by posting it for them, I'll let the survivors come to tell their own testimonies. All I can do is relate, my experience was pretty harsh, and from what I've heard about the brutality of the restraint in these school I can only classify it as the same kind of "torture", and act accordingly.
Beyond that, when you have been in a residential treatment program its easier for us to pin point the tell tale signs of an abusive and oppressive program, some of which can be identified within their own marketing materials, and certainly through out their "treatment plans".
However I believe the above should already be assumed, and it seems to me your not asking for the reason, but rather for us to declare our evidence, and sorry but that's not something I have any authority to post here. Besides, my stance on this whole thing is that NO HUMAN BEING should be incarcerated outside of due process of the law, so the mere fact that there would be any kids held against their will in any lock down facility would have the power to spring me into action...
This isnt anything new dude, we've been watchdoggin for years now, only difference is this Well Proxied guy has introduced a new, precarious yet damn effective strategy into the mix... and all of a sudden you question our reasoning?
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Besides, my stance on this whole thing is that NO HUMAN BEING should be incarcerated outside of due process of the law, so the mere fact that there would be any kids held against their will in any lock down facility would have the power to spring me into action...
Perhaps houseguest is a friend of one of the "parents" or guards of a prisoner? Perhaps she does not know that organizations that abduct and hold people prisoner without due process (and are not even psychiatric hospitals) exist—who the hell would unless you were one of the lucky ones to be afforded this experience?
I think she wants "evidence" that CALO holds people against their will and abducts people (accepts them from "escorts")
Any direct links for that?
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I've just been trying to figure out how you came to have a beef with this particular school. I don't know much about it, but I very much like the concept of interaction between the students and the dogs. All of these kids have attachment problems, from what I understand. And giving them the responsibilities and care of dogs, who love unconditionally, seems to be a good idea. Children who were adopted after the first year or so, and were adopted from an institutional setting, do tend to have problems that children adopted as newborns don't have.
I agree with you that the usage of dogs as a bonding tool seems like a wonderful idea at first glance. Not just because dogs "love unconditionally," but also as a means for helping kids develop an appreciation for another being's needs, and the emotional rewards that such a give-and-take can foster.
I also agree with your observation regarding attachment issues that some adopted kids can have. "Attachment Therapy," on the other hand, is a whole 'nother ballgame.
Do note that the people that founded and run CALO are not life-long animal professionals or attachment theory specialists. They have built their careers in the "troubled teen industry" by working in some of the more coercive behavior modification facilities around.
In fact, a number of fornits users have already crossed paths with these people due to having attended these facilities, or having once been employed in them, during the tenure of said CALO personnel.
Most leopards do not change their spots.
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I'm not going to quote the long post with all the links. Just too much scrolling required. But the questions I asked were not answered. The links had nothing to do with CALO. I asked for links that would show that torture exists at CALO. You gave me a lot of links concerning kidnapping, psychological damage, blahblahblah, but oddly, there was no mention of any of this occurring at CALO.
Again I ask: How did your beef with CALO originate? Why are you so stridently determined to attack the school and, ironically, its STUDENTS you claim to be so concerned about. You say I should educate myself about these abductions. Isn't that what I'm trying to do? I am sincerely trying to find out what happens, if students are woken in the night and dragged out of their homes with hoods over their head and shackles on their arms and legs, and transported to CALO. You claim they are abducted, but when asked, you refuse to back that up. So please educate me.
Have you visited this school? Have you seen reliable reports that the students are being held prisoner, which is, as you said "EXTRADINARILY DAMANGING" (by the way, if you use Firefox, you'll have a built-in spell checker, which may give you more credibility as to your own education).
Please show me where I said the school is "fantatic," or even "fantastic." I said I like the idea of the students bonding with dogs. Aside from that, I know nothing about the school. In fact, I think you probably know less than I do, since you can't answer any questions about it. You seemed to have jumped on a bandwagon without knowing where it's going.
I know, when you cannot think soundly enough to respond substantively, you gotta focus on the typos.
Poor, sad, creature... if you weren't such a moron you would have noticed I ANSWERED your question. To restate myself:
our "beef" with Change Academy STARTS with the FACT it abducts and holds people prisoner.
That is a SERIOUS issue, and quite enough to generate “beef.” Dontcha think? Or perhaps I should kidnap and imprison you a couple years to give you some free insight into the issue.
It continues beyond that, of course, but to save myself a lot of linking and explaining things to an idiot that answer is more than sufficient
Curious, since you have no “dog in this fight” how did you come to this corner of the interweb, a forum for survivors of the “troubled teen” abduction, imprisonment, and torture industry, and the folk who earn their keep in that peculiar institution. Feel free to be creative with your unlikely story.
Well, I think there IS a moron in this conversation, but it's not me. You certainly did NOT answer my question. Your "answer": "our "beef" with Change Academy STARTS with the FACT it abducts and holds people prisoner." I asked for links that would show evidence and reliable research connecting CALO with this. It's not a FACT unless you can back it up. It's not a FACT just because you say it's a fact. I could tell you that it's a FACT that the moon is made of green cheese. According to your logic, that would make it true. Who's the moron?
I came to this "corner of the interweb" because I heard that someone was posting personal information about teenagers in a private school, including some of their treatment reports. I wanted to see for myself what kind of person would do such a thing, hurting a child he claims to be trying to protect. Or are those kids just collateral damage in your personal little war that's based on "FACTS" that you can't back up?
Again, how many interviews have been done with CALO students, past or present? Do you have photographs of staff using this bent wrist maneuver, whatever the hell that is? And I ask again, just how are these students "abducted"? I remember a kid who was going to his first day of kindergarten. His mother took him to the school and left him there, and he screamed bloody murder for the three hours until the half-day was over. It seems, if I were to follow your specious logic, that that kindergartner was abducted by an unfeeling parent, and held hostage by a kindergarten teacher.
My younger daughter went to a boarding school because she was doing badly in our local public school which wouldn't acknowledge that she had problems focusing. She and I went together and looked at two boarding schools. One was very preppy and all the kids were wearing clothes that I could tell had designer labels inside. Not the place for my daughter. We went to visit the second school, and it was completely different. My daughter would receive much more individualized education, and would learn responsibility because it was a working farm and all the kids had jobs that rotated. It was very artsy. Everyone had barn duty at some point, which meant getting up at 5 a.m. and milking the cows. Now when I took my daughter up there, she was not happy. She wanted to be back at her old school with her friends. She called me daily for awhile, wanting to come home. So, according to you, I "abducted" her although she actually put herself into the car, I took her to a place where she didn't want to be -- because I knew better than she did that she would be better off there, and I allowed her to be held hostage by some cows. Well, it didn't take long before she loved the school, and has never regretted going there. But the FACT apparently is that she was abducted and held hostage.
Please tell me how you know this "FACT" that students at CALO are abducted and held hostage. Links, please, to reliable sources with irrefutable evidence. Thank you.
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It sounds like you were not fit to handle a problem that could have been taken care of years ago by being proactive.
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I'm not going to quote the long post with all the links. Just too much scrolling required. But the questions I asked were not answered. The links had nothing to do with CALO. I asked for links that would show that torture exists at CALO. You gave me a lot of links concerning kidnapping, psychological damage, blahblahblah, but oddly, there was no mention of any of this occurring at CALO.
Again I ask: How did your beef with CALO originate? Why are you so stridently determined to attack the school and, ironically, its STUDENTS you claim to be so concerned about. You say I should educate myself about these abductions. Isn't that what I'm trying to do? I am sincerely trying to find out what happens, if students are woken in the night and dragged out of their homes with hoods over their head and shackles on their arms and legs, and transported to CALO. You claim they are abducted, but when asked, you refuse to back that up. So please educate me.
Have you visited this school? Have you seen reliable reports that the students are being held prisoner, which is, as you said "EXTRADINARILY DAMANGING" (by the way, if you use Firefox, you'll have a built-in spell checker, which may give you more credibility as to your own education).
Please show me where I said the school is "fantatic," or even "fantastic." I said I like the idea of the students bonding with dogs. Aside from that, I know nothing about the school. In fact, I think you probably know less than I do, since you can't answer any questions about it. You seemed to have jumped on a bandwagon without knowing where it's going.
I know, when you cannot think soundly enough to respond substantively, you gotta focus on the typos.
Poor, sad, creature... if you weren't such a moron you would have noticed I ANSWERED your question. To restate myself:
our "beef" with Change Academy STARTS with the FACT it abducts and holds people prisoner.
That is a SERIOUS issue, and quite enough to generate “beef.” Dontcha think? Or perhaps I should kidnap and imprison you a couple years to give you some free insight into the issue.
It continues beyond that, of course, but to save myself a lot of linking and explaining things to an idiot that answer is more than sufficient
Curious, since you have no “dog in this fight” how did you come to this corner of the interweb, a forum for survivors of the “troubled teen” abduction, imprisonment, and torture industry, and the folk who earn their keep in that peculiar institution. Feel free to be creative with your unlikely story.
Well, I think there IS a moron in this conversation, but it's not me. You certainly did NOT answer my question. Your "answer": "our "beef" with Change Academy STARTS with the FACT it abducts and holds people prisoner." I asked for links that would show evidence and reliable research connecting CALO with this. It's not a FACT unless you can back it up. It's not a FACT just because you say it's a fact. I could tell you that it's a FACT that the moon is made of green cheese. According to your logic, that would make it true. Who's the moron?
I came to this "corner of the interweb" because I heard that someone was posting personal information about teenagers in a private school, including some of their treatment reports. I wanted to see for myself what kind of person would do such a thing, hurting a child he claims to be trying to protect. Or are those kids just collateral damage in your personal little war that's based on "FACTS" that you can't back up?
Again, how many interviews have been done with CALO students, past or present? Do you have photographs of staff using this bent wrist maneuver, whatever the hell that is? And I ask again, just how are these students "abducted"? I remember a kid who was going to his first day of kindergarten. His mother took him to the school and left him there, and he screamed bloody murder for the three hours until the half-day was over. It seems, if I were to follow your specious logic, that that kindergartner was abducted by an unfeeling parent, and held hostage by a kindergarten teacher.
My younger daughter went to a boarding school because she was doing badly in our local public school which wouldn't acknowledge that she had problems focusing. She and I went together and looked at two boarding schools. One was very preppy and all the kids were wearing clothes that I could tell had designer labels inside. Not the place for my daughter. We went to visit the second school, and it was completely different. My daughter would receive much more individualized education, and would learn responsibility because it was a working farm and all the kids had jobs that rotated. It was very artsy. Everyone had barn duty at some point, which meant getting up at 5 a.m. and milking the cows. Now when I took my daughter up there, she was not happy. She wanted to be back at her old school with her friends. She called me daily for awhile, wanting to come home. So, according to you, I "abducted" her although she actually put herself into the car, I took her to a place where she didn't want to be -- because I knew better than she did that she would be better off there, and I allowed her to be held hostage by some cows. Well, it didn't take long before she loved the school, and has never regretted going there. But the FACT apparently is that she was abducted and held hostage.
Please tell me how you know this "FACT" that students at CALO are abducted and held hostage. Links, please, to reliable sources with irrefutable evidence. Thank you.
Really, you "heard" about this? Anyone else here receive updates about the goings on at every obscure website somewhat tangentially related to one of your personal experiences?
Sorry, I'm calling bullshit. But your story was indeed creative, as I requested.
As a probable sock puppet and liar, your make believe confusion about what we mean by abduction and imprisonment is TIRESOME
However, on the off chance some semi-human being reads this thread who simply has NO IDEA that the sort of evil referred to in this thread transpires, or you are a member of a telekinetically connected to the heartbeat of the internet social site, here is what we mean by abduction and imprisonment:
http://www.nospank.net/labi.htm (http://www.nospank.net/labi.htm)
There are a 1000 other papers, sites, court cases that would provide more collaboration, but this will do, unless “houseguest” wants to imply this is not FACT, as well.
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Please tell me how you know this "FACT" that students at CALO are abducted and held hostage. Links, please, to reliable sources with irrefutable evidence. Thank you.
Until evidence proves otherwise, I'll assume you are for real ... for the moment. ;)
Although I cannot in actuality speak for Guest, I do believe that by "abduction" she was referring to the euphemistically termed "teen escort services" that are recommended by a lot of these places.
This experience basically entails being woken up in the middle of the night by 2-3 very large burly men equipped with martial arts skills, handcuffs, and God knows what else under their belt ... for the purpose of being transported to some program that the kid does not want to go to. These escorts then transport these kids door-to-door.
It's a bit of a different experience than when done by a family member. I also suspect that these programs may be a mite bit different than your daughter's family farm school. Where did she go?
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b4 torturing kids at CALO, Ken Huey tortured them at Provo:
http://www.isaccorp.org/documentsnz.asp#provocanyon.. (http://www.isaccorp.org/documentsnz.asp#provocanyon..).
Safe Choices for Troubled Teens
Residential treatment centers for troubled teens are plagued by allegations of abuse and
ineffectiveness. But do anguished parents have an alternative?
By Anthony Meza-Wilson and Christy Harrison
Posted August 12, 2004 at www.askquestions.org (http://www.askquestions.org)
Helen Taylor didn’t feel like she had much choice. A registered nurse and mother of five,
Taylor was caring for a sick parent and studying for a law degree when her seventeenyear-
old daughter Grace* was raped at a party and fell into depression. Taylor, who lives in Thousand Oaks, California, knew she
couldn’t handle Grace’s needs by herself. She took Grace to a therapist, who recognized
the overwhelming nature of Taylor’s other responsibilities and suggested that Taylor
place her daughter in residential treatment. Mother and daughter both agreed that a fulltime
care facility was a good idea, and Grace, who had always been a well-adjusted,
bright girl, was willing to do whatever the therapist suggested in order to get better.
Taylor asked a neighbor for advice, and after a little research and a tour of the facility,
decided on a treatment center in Utah called Provo Canyon School. When Grace entered
in December, 2003, the school promised therapy mixed with outdoor sports, dances, and
other recreational activities.
Less than a month later, says Taylor, Grace came home covered in bruises, gaunt and
traumatized by her experiences. On one of the worst nights, says Taylor, staff forcibly
injected Grace with the antipsychotic drug Haldol for supposed insubordination. Grace’s
only crime, she told Taylor, was telling staff she needed to use the bathroom. Grace
awoke to a kick the next morning and found herself lying on a hallway floor, her vision
blurred and her facial muscles severely contorted.
Worse still, Taylor says that Grace, a
rape victim and voluntary patient, was forced to submit to strip searches on several
occasions and was sexually assaulted by Provo Canyon staff—only compounding
Grace’s emotional despair. Provo Canyon did not return phone calls seeking comment.
Despite horror stories like this one, there is big business in residential treatment centers
like Provo Canyon: there were 43,365 admissions to RTCs in 1997, and 27,642 patients
under care in RTCs at that time, according to a 2000 report by the United States Surgeon
General’s office http://www.mentalhealth.org/publications/allpubs/SMA01- (http://www.mentalhealth.org/publications/allpubs/SMA01-)
3537/chapter15.asp
Private residential treatment centers can cost as much as a year in college; they’re mostly
the province of well-off parents. However, some insurance companies will cover
treatment at schools accredited by Joint Commission for Accreditation of Healthcare
Organizations (JCAHO), an independent, nonprofit organization that inspects and
accredits nearly 16,000 health care facilities in the United States.
But JCAHO’s standards
are geared mainly toward monitoring surgical and pharmacological procedures. And so
RTCs, which are more like boarding schools than traditional hospitals, can become
accredited under standards that have little to do with the daily programs and activities
practiced in them. Many RTCs are not accredited at all.
Page 2
Some residential treatment programs have amassed a disturbing number of complaints
from kids and parents who, like the Taylors, allege that the schools physically and
mentally abuse their students. Recent articles in the New York Times and the UK
Guardian document abuses at treatment centers abroad including Tranquility Bay School
in Jamaica. Controversy has arisen in Tranquility Bay amid the death of a student, parent
custody battles, and allegations of unlawful incarceration. Lawsuits have been brought
against the Worldwide Association of Specialty Programs and Schools (WWASPS), an
affiliated group of private residential treatment centers and schools that manages
Tranquility Bay. And there are many complaints about other RTCs on websites run by
watchdog groups, parents, and survivors.
Most RTCs use a religious "tough love" approach to treatment, doling out points for
“appropriate behavior” and imposing consequences—ranging from the loss of phone
privileges to solitary confinement and physical punishments, according to survivors.
In recent years, government agencies in other countries have begun to crack down on
these American-owned programs; authorities in Costa Rica, Mexico and the Czech
Republic have shut down at least four WWASPS programs thus far. But in the United
States, regulators have been less assertive. In 2003, Congressman George Miller of
California asked the United States Department of Justice (DOJ) to investigate a growing
number of allegations against WWASPS, but to date the DOJ has taken no action.
In
Utah, State Office of Licensing Director Ken Stettler proposed legislation that would
have established stricter licensing requirements for teen treatment centers, but it didn’t fly
with lawmakers. As Stettler told the Salt Lake Tribune in April, 2004,
http://166.70.44.66/2004/apr/04102004/utah/155803.asp (http://166.70.44.66/2004/apr/04102004/utah/155803.asp) many Utah legislators felt that
his office was “empire building” when it proposed instituting licenses for the paid “escort
services” that private treatment centers use to transport teens to their facilities, even
though there are many complaints against them.
After her daughter’s ordeal, Helen Taylor mounted a letter-writing campaign to inform
Stettler and other state and federal legislators of Grace’s experiences at Provo Canyon,
but to date she has only received a couple of terse replies.
She feels that these legislators
are taking reports of child abuse in their state very lightly and that the police are clearly
acting in league with abusive schools.
Local police routinely come out to help Provo
Canyon deal with attempted escapes, for example, but have not investigated the
children’s charges of abuse. “This is political corruption at its worst,” Taylor said.
Parents like Taylor commonly assume that there is more government oversight than
actually exists within the treatment industry. On the contrary, kids incarcerated in a
juvenile prison may have more protection from abuse than kids voluntarily enrolled in
private treatment centers. The DOJ routinely shuts down juvenile prisons when abuse
occurs, but it has yet to investigate the private RTCs. The industry is not well regulated,
most facilities operate without accreditation or a license, and some take unfair advantage
of distressed parents. Some families have experienced problems with the enrollment
Page 3
contracts, discovering too late that they signed away too much authority or waived too
many of their legal rights regarding disputes with the schools.
Survivors and parents have formed watchdog groups and mounted education campaigns
to warn other families about the risks. Some are listed below. Other parents are pressing
lawmakers to step in: Helen Taylor has developed an email list for updates on her
attempts to contact legislators, while another parent launched Fornits, a web forum with
an extensive teen treatment section allowing survivors and parents to air their
frustrations, tell their stories, and strategize the legal and criminal investigation of
abusive facilities.
And even parents whose children were well served at residential programs are wary of
the teen treatment industry because of the big money involved. Linnea Soderlund, a
parent who sent her teenage son to two different residential programs primarily for what
she called “out-of-control behavior,” says that parents should proceed with extreme
caution when selecting a residential program. “Consultants and programs are happy to
take thousands of dollars from you in exchange for the hope of saving your kid,”
Soderlund wrote me in an email. She says, “Stay in close touch if you place your child in
a treatment program,” because parental vigilance is the best protection against abuse.
Soderlund also counsels parents to seek expert diagnosis when determining whether to
send a child to residential treatment. “I would urge anyone considering residential
treatment to obtain a physical exam and complete psychological evaluation before
making any plans for treatment,” she wrote. While she said that the psychological
evaluation was a large expense not covered by insurance, she was “immeasurably
thankful” that she got one for her daughter. “This is the only way to determine what the
issues are and what is at stake,” she wrote.
Karen Stanton, another parent who has enrolled a child in residential treatment and was
particularly happy with the results, agrees that it’s crucial to screen both the child and the
school. Her son, Peter, was diagnosed with dyslexia at a young age, and she and her
husband had tried numerous treatments including therapy, Ritalin, summer programs, and
a private school for students with learning disabilities. Nothing worked, she said, until
she found an educational consultant who reviewed Peter’s test results, talked to his
teachers and therapists, and helped find programs that were tailored to his specific needs.
Stanton says that their consultant was “expensive, but totally worth the money.” Stanton
added, “We were desperate when we went to her.”
Several parents we spoke with reported using educational consultants with good results,
but here again, parents must be careful. Some consultants accept financial rewards for
enrolling kids in specific programs, so bias could be a problem. It is important to ask
about any commercial ties between your consultant and the schools so that you can
evaluate their recommendations accordingly.
Unfortunately, even if a parent finds a suitable, non-abusive program, there is no
guarantee that the program will provide long-lasting results. Dr. Oscar Bukstein, an
Page 4
associate professor of psychiatry at the University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine who
specializes in children’s psychiatric disorders, says that even when kids make progress in
these “tough-love” residential programs, they very often have trouble reincorporating the
skills they learn into their home lives. “When kids get back to their original situation,
they start to slip back,” he said. “If anything, the center is probably a safe holding place
until kids mature out of [their behavior problems].”
Bukstein also says that some parents send their kids to residential treatment too early,
without first considering other and potentially better options. He says therapy and
community-based intensive treatment centers that provide more than just an hour a week
of counseling are good options for overwhelmed parents, and that generally kids don’t
need “tough love” to be treated effectively. “You have to model appropriate behavior,”
he said, “but intimidation doesn’t model appropriate behavior—being tough and
consistent doesn’t entail being mean and abusive.”
The late Dr. Loren Mosher, Clinical Professor of Psychiatry at the University of
California at San Diego School of Medicine and former Chief of the Center for Studies of
Schizophrenia at the National Institutes of Mental Health, agreed that residential centers
aren’t effective at training patients to function in their normal environment. “If those
programs are not continued after they get back,” he said, “the learning they received is
gone within three weeks to six months.” Mosher, who is best known as the founder of
Soteria, a revolutionary treatment center for schizophrenics that eschewed medication
and placed patients in a shared living situation with non-medical-professionals, said that
any effective treatment should involve the whole family. “Anything that doesn’t,” he
said, “is probably a waste of time.” He advocated straightforward family counseling,
which is widely available and which, he said, usually costs a whole lot less than
residential programs.
“I don’t think there’s much out there to tell parents about where you draw the line
between normal teenage acting-out and serious behavior problems,” said Barbara Huff,
Executive Director of the Federation of Families for Children’s Mental Health. While she
says there are no easy answers to this question, guidance counselors at the local schools,
private therapists, and other professionals can help identify children with behavior
problems early on and can also work with families to find appropriate solutions.
And above all, experts agree, parents should avoid giving in to embarrassment or despair
that keeps them from seeking appropriate help close to home. “We all fear the stigma that
is attached to ‘troubled teens,’” said Dawn Martin-Rugo, a parent who enrolled her
daughter in a wilderness program and a therapeutic boarding school. “We want to protect
our teen and ourselves from the judgments of others, but it is important to get over this
fear as quickly as possible—everyone knows someone who has a child who has “fallen
apart.’” Common sense and community support are your best protections against the false
promises offered by unscrupulous people who stand to profit from selling you an
expensive residential program. If your children or your friends’ children run into trouble,
consider these tips from other parents and mental health experts:
Page 5
? Get a ‘reality check’ from school officials, teachers, family, and friends to help
assess the seriousness of the child’s behavior problems.
? Explore local options first, and look for a therapy program that works with the
whole family, not just the teen.
? Invest in physical and psychological assessments that will define the child’s
problem and point to appropriate remedies.
? Hire an educational consultant who works only for the family (and does not
receive a commission from schools).
? Investigate the schools in person, and also check with the parent watchdog groups
(listed below) to avoid the worst offenders.
? Ask a lawyer to review enrollment contracts before signing them.
? And finally, stay in contact with the child throughout their stay in a residential
facility so that you can move them out quickly at the first sign of trouble.
Resources for Parents
NoSpank.net is the work of a group called Parents and Teachers Against Violence in
Education. The site provides a good collection of documents and news articles from a
range of sources. http://www.nospank.net/boot.htm (http://www.nospank.net/boot.htm)
The International Survivors Action Committee</a> is a nonprofit, independent watchdog
organization. Their site includes a list of warning signs to help parents avoid abusive
programs, as well as a list of schools with the most damaging track records.
http://www.isaccorp.com/index.html (http://www.isaccorp.com/index.html)
The Straights is a website created by a father named Wesley Fager, who has been
campaigning for reform of residential treatment programs since 1989 when his son was
abused in one. His site includes his book and information about other books on the
subject. http://www.thestraights.com (http://www.thestraights.com)
Personal testimonials from survivors and their families can be found at Fornits.com/wwf
http://fornits.com/wwf (http://fornits.com/wwf)
The Independent Educational Consultants Association (IECA) has a ‘find a consultant’
feature on their web site, as well as some general information about working with a
consultant. http://www.educationalconsulting.org/ (http://www.educationalconsulting.org/)
Here are well researched, recent news articles: from the NY Times, January 2003,
“Parents Divided Over Jamaica Disciplinary Academy” http://nospank.net/n-k52.htm (http://nospank.net/n-k52.htm) and
from the British paper, Guardian an article published last summer also looks at the
Tranquility Bay program in Jamaica.
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/magazine ... 72,00.html (http://observer.guardian.co.uk/magazine/story/0,11913,987172,00.html) And “Drug
Mistreatment" from Mother Jones Magazine documents how courts and schools often
force parent to put kids into treatment who may not actually need it.
http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature ... rehab.html (http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2000/02/rehab.html)
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More of Ken Huey's "treatment" of "troubled" adolescents:
http://www.isaccorp.org/provocanyon/pcs1.pdf (http://www.isaccorp.org/provocanyon/pcs1.pdf)
http://www.isaccorp.org/provocanyon/pcs2.pdf (http://www.isaccorp.org/provocanyon/pcs2.pdf)
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I've just been trying to figure out how you came to have a beef with this particular school. I don't know much about it, but I very much like the concept of interaction between the students and the dogs. All of these kids have attachment problems, from what I understand. And giving them the responsibilities and care of dogs, who love unconditionally, seems to be a good idea. Children who were adopted after the first year or so, and were adopted from an institutional setting, do tend to have problems that children adopted as newborns don't have.
I agree with you that the usage of dogs as a bonding tool seems like a wonderful idea at first glance. Not just because dogs "love unconditionally," but also as a means for helping kids develop an appreciation for another being's needs, and the emotional rewards that such a give-and-take can foster.
I also agree with your observation regarding attachment issues that some adopted kids can have. "Attachment Therapy," on the other hand, is a whole 'nother ballgame.
Do note that the people that founded and run CALO are not life-long animal professionals or attachment theory specialists. They have built their careers in the "troubled teen industry" by working in some of the more coercive behavior modification facilities around.
In fact, a number of fornits users have already crossed paths with these people due to having attended these facilities, or having once been employed in them, during the tenure of said CALO personnel.
Most leopards do not change their spots.
Thank you for your well-considered and polite answer. And for actually giving me an idea of why many members are skeptical of CALO, based on past experience with some of their staff. Your post makes a lot of sense.
I would like to believe that bringing the dogs into the mix is an attempt to make a transition to a treatment that is more likely to work than other forms of attachment therapy. Maybe I'm a Pollyanna, but I would also like to believe that leopards, under different circumstances, might be able to change their spots, or at least their personalities. I do understand that the staff are not life-long dog trainers. Neither am I, but it's a skill that I've learned (and continue to learn), and I think it's a change for the positive.
Another serious question I have: What recommendations would you make to a parent of a teenager with attachment problems? One who the public school has been unable to help and whose mother can't control him. Is there anyplace where such a teenager can be taken for help that has the approval of the members here?
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It sounds like you were not fit to handle a problem that could have been taken care of years ago by being proactive.
That's very possibly true. But I didn't know she had ADD until she started high school. She was a very charming child who was able to get through grammar school and junior high on charisma alone. My rule was that there was no TV allowed during the week, but if homework was done after school, she could watch until 6:00. It was a reward, as opposed to the removal of a privilege. I would come home from work and she would be watching TV. I would say, "Oh good, you've finished your homework!" and she would say "uhhhhh. No, I forgot." She lived in the moment. I thought it was a behavior problem and it took awhile before I found out she had ADD (and so do I).
So you're right. If I had been more proactive, maybe I would have been fit to handle her problem. I wish I had, because it ripped my heart out to send her away to school. Since her sister was leaving for college, I was looking forward to having just her for awhile, since she'd never really had me all to herself.
I would like to suggest that you'll have more productive interactions if you try not to be so insulting.
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I'm not going to quote the long post with all the links. Just too much scrolling required. But the questions I asked were not answered. The links had nothing to do with CALO. I asked for links that would show that torture exists at CALO. You gave me a lot of links concerning kidnapping, psychological damage, blahblahblah, but oddly, there was no mention of any of this occurring at CALO.
Again I ask: How did your beef with CALO originate? Why are you so stridently determined to attack the school and, ironically, its STUDENTS you claim to be so concerned about. You say I should educate myself about these abductions. Isn't that what I'm trying to do? I am sincerely trying to find out what happens, if students are woken in the night and dragged out of their homes with hoods over their head and shackles on their arms and legs, and transported to CALO. You claim they are abducted, but when asked, you refuse to back that up. So please educate me.
Have you visited this school? Have you seen reliable reports that the students are being held prisoner, which is, as you said "EXTRADINARILY DAMANGING" (by the way, if you use Firefox, you'll have a built-in spell checker, which may give you more credibility as to your own education).
Please show me where I said the school is "fantatic," or even "fantastic." I said I like the idea of the students bonding with dogs. Aside from that, I know nothing about the school. In fact, I think you probably know less than I do, since you can't answer any questions about it. You seemed to have jumped on a bandwagon without knowing where it's going.
I know, when you cannot think soundly enough to respond substantively, you gotta focus on the typos.
Poor, sad, creature... if you weren't such a moron you would have noticed I ANSWERED your question. To restate myself:
our "beef" with Change Academy STARTS with the FACT it abducts and holds people prisoner.
That is a SERIOUS issue, and quite enough to generate “beef.” Dontcha think? Or perhaps I should kidnap and imprison you a couple years to give you some free insight into the issue.
It continues beyond that, of course, but to save myself a lot of linking and explaining things to an idiot that answer is more than sufficient
Curious, since you have no “dog in this fight” how did you come to this corner of the interweb, a forum for survivors of the “troubled teen” abduction, imprisonment, and torture industry, and the folk who earn their keep in that peculiar institution. Feel free to be creative with your unlikely story.
Well, I think there IS a moron in this conversation, but it's not me. You certainly did NOT answer my question. Your "answer": "our "beef" with Change Academy STARTS with the FACT it abducts and holds people prisoner." I asked for links that would show evidence and reliable research connecting CALO with this. It's not a FACT unless you can back it up. It's not a FACT just because you say it's a fact. I could tell you that it's a FACT that the moon is made of green cheese. According to your logic, that would make it true. Who's the moron?
I came to this "corner of the interweb" because I heard that someone was posting personal information about teenagers in a private school, including some of their treatment reports. I wanted to see for myself what kind of person would do such a thing, hurting a child he claims to be trying to protect. Or are those kids just collateral damage in your personal little war that's based on "FACTS" that you can't back up?
Again, how many interviews have been done with CALO students, past or present? Do you have photographs of staff using this bent wrist maneuver, whatever the hell that is? And I ask again, just how are these students "abducted"? I remember a kid who was going to his first day of kindergarten. His mother took him to the school and left him there, and he screamed bloody murder for the three hours until the half-day was over. It seems, if I were to follow your specious logic, that that kindergartner was abducted by an unfeeling parent, and held hostage by a kindergarten teacher.
My younger daughter went to a boarding school because she was doing badly in our local public school which wouldn't acknowledge that she had problems focusing. She and I went together and looked at two boarding schools. One was very preppy and all the kids were wearing clothes that I could tell had designer labels inside. Not the place for my daughter. We went to visit the second school, and it was completely different. My daughter would receive much more individualized education, and would learn responsibility because it was a working farm and all the kids had jobs that rotated. It was very artsy. Everyone had barn duty at some point, which meant getting up at 5 a.m. and milking the cows. Now when I took my daughter up there, she was not happy. She wanted to be back at her old school with her friends. She called me daily for awhile, wanting to come home. So, according to you, I "abducted" her although she actually put herself into the car, I took her to a place where she didn't want to be -- because I knew better than she did that she would be better off there, and I allowed her to be held hostage by some cows. Well, it didn't take long before she loved the school, and has never regretted going there. But the FACT apparently is that she was abducted and held hostage.
Please tell me how you know this "FACT" that students at CALO are abducted and held hostage. Links, please, to reliable sources with irrefutable evidence. Thank you.
Really, you "heard" about this? Anyone else here receive updates about the goings on at every obscure website somewhat tangentially related to one of your personal experiences?
Sorry, I'm calling bullshit. But your story was indeed creative, as I requested.
As a probable sock puppet and liar, your make believe confusion about what we mean by abduction and imprisonment is TIRESOME
However, on the off chance some semi-human being reads this thread who simply has NO IDEA that the sort of evil referred to in this thread transpires, or you are a member of a telekinetically connected to the heartbeat of the internet social site, here is what we mean by abduction and imprisonment:
http://www.nospank.net/labi.htm (http://www.nospank.net/labi.htm)
There are a 1000 other papers, sites, court cases that would provide more collaboration, but this will do, unless “houseguest” wants to imply this is not FACT, as well.
I don't know if you're just stupid or if you have reading comprehension problems. For the last time, I was asking you what those FACTS have to do with CALO. In other words, what evidence do you have that CALO kidnaps and tortures? Please don't bother to repeat the same thing to me over and over, because Ursus has kindly answered the question I was asking.
And I DID just hear about the names and treatment reports being posted here. What, do you think you're hidden away in a tiny corner of the internet where no one will ever find you? I run across all kinds of obscure things on the internet. I own two message boards where people post links, and links lead to other links, and still others. Once I click on a link, I can get lost for an hour or more, going from link to link. ADD again.
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You more clear about what "abduction" and "imprisonment" mean? You were confused!
Maybe I'm a Pollyanna, but I would also like to believe that leopards, under different circumstances, might be able to change their spots, or at least their personalities.
And you think people who, admittedly, oversaw abduction, imprisonment, and torture a couple years before, should be allowed to abduct imprison, hold incommunicado, and be granted total authority over anyone today? Okay, psycho!
Another serious question I have: What recommendations would you make to a parent of a teenager with attachment problems? One who the public school has been unable to help and whose mother can't control him. Is there anyplace where such a teenager can be taken for help that has the approval of the members here?
Maybe the parents of a teen with attachment problems should consider if they are worth attaching to?
A good place to start would making sure the PARENTS provide suitable homes, instead of assuming there is some kind of invisible, unproved, spontaneously occurring squiggle in a kids brain(or not spontaneously occurring, but the OTHER parents fault) and “treating it.” In other words, make the parents be half-way decent parents for a change.
Lets face it, the sort of mother who could pay some stranger to drag you over to a prison where you will spend the next year or longer, tends to have not treated you too well for a while…Should you be completely “normal,” and “attachment” prone? I mean, wouldn’t being abnormal or non-attached be the “normal” reaction of a “normal” person?
What meets “our” approval is not doing things that are obviously harmful and cruel, or involve anyone in "crazy" non evidence-based "therapies"—doing things that improve the PARENTS of the kids, who, come on, you know this is true, are almost always the “problem.” Try letting the kid live with a friend, or relative. Get them involved in sports, theatre, letting them be, getting them a personal “coach.”the sky’s the limit
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I own two message boards where people post links, and links lead to other links, and still others. Once I click on a link, I can get lost for an hour or more, going from link to link. ADD again.
:roflmao: ::fullofshit:: link? You're as likely to be just pasing through as just passing through "justpassingthru." My 2 cents
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I own two message boards where people post links, and links lead to other links, and still others. Once I click on a link, I can get lost for an hour or more, going from link to link. ADD again.
:roflmao: ::fullofshit:: link? You're as likely to be just pasing through as just passing through "justpassingthru." My 2 cents
viewforum.php?f=41 (http://fornits.com/phpbb/viewforum.php?f=41)
You like following links? Follow ^^. There is an entire forum dedicated to abduction, imprisonment and torture as instituted by Nicole F.,curent CALO henchman, at Hidden Lake Academy. That links (started by former disciple) to an abduction, imprisonment and torture brainwashing gulag called CEDU, which itself links (started by former disciple) to Synanon
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/200 ... n-industry (http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2007/08/cult-spawned-tough-love-teen-industry)
More about Ken Huey, operator of CALO:
http://www.provotruthexposed.com/ (http://www.provotruthexposed.com/)
Are you a health care practitioner? If you are, you could see that even in CALO's docs the "treatment" plans that sound good to you, are not valid therapies. Calling something "cognitive" therapy or canine therapy, does not make it thus.
Are you a licensed psychiatrist? If you are, you could see that even in CALO's docs the "treatment" plans that sound good to you, are not valid therapies. Calling something "cognitive" therapy or canine therapy, does not make it thus.
http://www.provotruthexposed.com/ (http://www.provotruthexposed.com/)
Are you a health care practitioner? If you are, you could see that even in CALO's docs the "treatment" plans that sound good to you, are not valid therapies. Calling something "cognitive" therapy or canine therapy, does not make it thus.
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I own two message boards where people post links, and links lead to other links, and still others. Once I click on a link, I can get lost for an hour or more, going from link to link. ADD again.
:roflmao: ::fullofshit:: link? You're as likely to be just pasing through as just passing through "justpassingthru." My 2 cents
What message board? I'd be amazed to this where this got posted, if it did...
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Please tell me how you know this "FACT" that students at CALO are abducted and held hostage. Links, please, to reliable sources with irrefutable evidence. Thank you.
Until evidence proves otherwise, I'll assume you are for real ... for the moment. ;)
Although I cannot in actuality speak for Guest, I do believe that by "abduction" she was referring to the euphemistically termed "teen escort services" that are recommended by a lot of these places.
This experience basically entails being woken up in the middle of the night by 2-3 very large burly men equipped with martial arts skills, handcuffs, and God knows what else under their belt ... for the purpose of being transported to some program that the kid does not want to go to. These escorts then transport these kids door-to-door.
It's a bit of a different experience than when done by a family member. I also suspect that these programs may be a mite bit different than your daughter's family farm school. Where did she go?
Reading about the "escort services," I now can see that it's a horrifying method of getting a teen to the school. Do you know for sure that CALO hires these "services"? And yes, you're right, my daughter's delivery to school was quite a bit different. She went to the Putney School in Vermont.
Thank you for your information, and your patience in explaining these things to me.
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I own two message boards where people post links, and links lead to other links, and still others. Once I click on a link, I can get lost for an hour or more, going from link to link. ADD again.
:roflmao: ::fullofshit:: link? You're as likely to be just pasing through as just passing through "justpassingthru." My 2 cents
What message board? I'd be amazed to this where this got posted, if it did...
I didn't say it was posted on a message board. More often than not, people post links to non-message-board sites. And sorry, my message boards are by invitation only.
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Please tell me how you know this "FACT" that students at CALO are abducted and held hostage. Links, please, to reliable sources with irrefutable evidence. Thank you.
Until evidence proves otherwise, I'll assume you are for real ... for the moment. ;)
Although I cannot in actuality speak for Guest, I do believe that by "abduction" she was referring to the euphemistically termed "teen escort services" that are recommended by a lot of these places.
This experience basically entails being woken up in the middle of the night by 2-3 very large burly men equipped with martial arts skills, handcuffs, and God knows what else under their belt ... for the purpose of being transported to some program that the kid does not want to go to. These escorts then transport these kids door-to-door.
It's a bit of a different experience than when done by a family member. I also suspect that these programs may be a mite bit different than your daughter's family farm school. Where did she go?
Reading about the "escort services," I now can see that it's a horrifying method of getting a teen to the school.
Once an organization abducts a person, through a contracted trafficker, or personally, it ceases to be anything that can be described with the moniker "school."
Putney is a real school. CALO and orgs. that accept people who have been abducted are not.
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Do you know for certain that CALO has used these teen escort services? Are you assuming, based on the presence of staff members who worked at abusive places, or do you have names and dates when the incidents occurred?
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Do you know for certain that CALO has used these teen escort services? Are you assuming, based on the presence of staff members who worked at abusive places, or do you have names and dates when the incidents occurred?
Tell you what, houseguest. When you link the sites you run, and relate a credible method of “hearing" that people's personal information was being posted, I'll answer your question.
Cause you seem about as crooked right now as a three Ws on a broken finger, and weirdly conniving. A real parent would be busy scraping their jaw off their lap after reading what went on at Hidden Lake Academy and Provo Canyon where your employers (amirite?) Ken Huey and Nicole Fuglsang, oversaw torture and brainwashing. In your next incarnation try a little more concern about victims in general, and a little less “legally” language like
“do you have names and dates when the incidents occurred?”
Keep phishing. I mean, god.
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Please tell me how you know this "FACT" that students at CALO are abducted and held hostage. Links, please, to reliable sources with irrefutable evidence. Thank you.
Until evidence proves otherwise, I'll assume you are for real ... for the moment. ;)
Although I cannot in actuality speak for Guest, I do believe that by "abduction" she was referring to the euphemistically termed "teen escort services" that are recommended by a lot of these places.
This experience basically entails being woken up in the middle of the night by 2-3 very large burly men equipped with martial arts skills, handcuffs, and God knows what else under their belt ... for the purpose of being transported to some program that the kid does not want to go to. These escorts then transport these kids door-to-door.
It's a bit of a different experience than when done by a family member. I also suspect that these programs may be a mite bit different than your daughter's family farm school. Where did she go?
Reading about the "escort services," I now can see that it's a horrifying method of getting a teen to the school. Do you know for sure that CALO hires these "services"? And yes, you're right, my daughter's delivery to school was quite a bit different. She went to the Putney School in Vermont.
Thank you for your information, and your patience in explaining these things to me.
I should apologize for my angst earlier, you see we get a lot of people here just out to call us liars and bait us into revealing sensitive information in order to use it against us. Just over yonder to another thread there is an miserable troll making up lies about the circumstances of my recently late grandmother's death. Our trolls, especially those pulled in from the industry we oppose can be cunning and ruthless, but most of all frustrating to no end, so please forgive us if we have our guard up most of the time.
SO for the sake of starting over, may I offer you a tale of my experience in a program such as CALO?
Please Read Here: La Experiencia de Fem (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=27772#p334387)
This place ruined my life, truly, utterly and completely and there is nothing I wouldn't do to keep that from happening to another teen, even if just one. So the answer to your question isn't specifically that CALO uses bent wrist techniques, or that they employ escorts to kidnapp kids from their beds or even that Ken Huey has been in the child torturing business for YEARS... the answer to your question is because I am a survivor and I will ALWAYS fight this fight... regardless of how hard it may be or how many people tell me I'm wasting my time, I will keep doing anything and everything I can to make a difference, and even if that means I sometimes support actions that seem to be attacking these programs that to those who are unaware of the issues we take with the Troubled Teen Industry, seem to be "private schools" or "therapeutic boarding schools", trust me, we have a TON of experience discerning the difference between an abusive program, and a harmless boarding school. I think that's what fuels our fire, we find out about a new one popping up everyday... it impossible to stay on top of them all, but when we get some of the leads like have been acquired here at CALO, we go for the throat.
Well hope that about sums it up.
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Do you know for certain that CALO has used these teen escort services? Are you assuming, based on the presence of staff members who worked at abusive places, or do you have names and dates when the incidents occurred?
Correct me if I'm wrong here guys, but even if a child is somehow convinced to be driven by their parents to this facility that doesn't mean that they are not being obducted, in the sense that they are being cast from society and denied even the most appropriate allowance of communication with the outside world, their incarceration is being privately funded outside of due process of the law and these children are subject to methods that range from the least invasive being mind control and then escalating but not limited to physical abuse.
If the parental consent were not factored into this equation we would have a national scandal on our hands.... my question is why is it that for some reason parental consent to torture somehow over-shadows the human rights of the child to be protected from such.
Seriously houseguest, if you are new here and truly not affiliated with CALO, why are you not more concerned for the welfare of the children instead of playing the defense lawyer? I bet thats it.... Your most likely the defense lawyer of CALO trying to see what kind of evidence we've got against your client. I'm sorry bud but that's not information we throw around these boards, contrary to popular belief some of us operate with a bit more tact and discretion.
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Thank you to Ursus, Guest, and FemanonFatal. I have, in the past, heard rumors about the "escort" services (thinking it was an invention of a television writer's mind), but the experience Fem has described makes my hair stand on end. Simply horrifying, and thank goodness those two places, at least, no longer exist. In the links you gave, there was no mention of either of the CALO people who used to be somewhere else. I'll go back and see if I can find a link to their previous employment. I truly would like to believe that "that was then and this is now," and that CALO uses different techniques (the dogs, for example) and has gone in a different direction, even with those staff members. Isn't it possible that the staff members left there in order to start a place with a new and different methodology?
Guest, please don't worry about me being a spy for the other side. I'm merely a bystander wanting to learn more (and so far my eyes have really been opened, aand I've just scratched the surface). I hope you'll forgive my naive questions and explain things to me -- think of me as a kindergartner who is just learning to read. I haven't jumped in here with plenty of knowledge about these places and this industry. I kind of fell into it, and I have to learn where the fight is, and whether or not it's possible that this particular school, which is new-ish, might have found a different way by people who knew first hand that the old ways are ineffective.
Somewhere, either here or in one of the links to an unrelated site, I read that rather than using the wrist bend technique, a non-touching talking-till-they're-sick-of-listening approach seems to be more effective. Certainly it would behoove schools to give that a good try. It's still unclear to me that CALO is using the restraining techniques in a way that tortures and injures teens, and until I see evidence to the contrary, I'll continue to wonder.
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^The Who^ Dumbass.
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It's still unclear to me that CALO is using the restraining techniques in a way that tortures and injures teens, and until I see evidence to the contrary, I'll continue to wonder.
That's fair, but I hope you can understand none of us have the authority to post testimony of survivors unless they first do so themselves. It's both a privacy issue as well a legal precaution.
I can't tell you that the simple fact that these people are running ANOTHER "tough love" program proves their guilt, but I can tell you that the fundamental properties of a program such as CALO are at best still violating the human rights of children in their care. Like it has been said, this is just the tip of the ice burg and until were able to coax more survivors out of the woodwork all we can do is give you the FACTS about the structure of the program, and things they refer to in their own materials that we can identify as violations and abusive tactics. That's all WE can offer you, if you need a first hand witness report you will have to track down a survivor and get them to agree to share that information with you. WE don't have the authorization to provide you with that, and to be honest I wouldn't want to ask someone to spill their guts about this heart-wrenching experience in order to post it on Fornits. As you may or may not have already realized, we have a few predatory trolls here who could very likely abuse their trust in us to release that information to hurt or exploit them. That's just not something I and many of us here would be willing to do to someone who has already been through so much.
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^The Who^ Dumbass.
I think perhaps you are right? Perhaps afraid of being sued, it assumed a 'noobie' personality?
I still recomend that Fem subpeaona the IP of the it that said her grandma died alone, unloved, etc. Wouldn’t it be amusing to find out WHO it is?
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Thank you to Ursus, Guest, and FemanonFatal. I have, in the past, heard rumors about the "escort" services (thinking it was an invention of a television writer's mind), but the experience Fem has described makes my hair stand on end. Simply horrifying, and thank goodness those two places, at least, no longer exist. In the links you gave, there was no mention of either of the CALO people who used to be somewhere else. I'll go back and see if I can find a link to their previous employment. I truly would like to believe that "that was then and this is now," and that CALO uses different techniques (the dogs, for example) and has gone in a different direction, even with those staff members. Isn't it possible that the staff members left there in order to start a place with a new and different methodology?
Guest, please don't worry about me being a spy for the other side. I'm merely a bystander wanting to learn more (and so far my eyes have really been opened, aand I've just scratched the surface). I hope you'll forgive my naive questions and explain things to me -- think of me as a kindergartner who is just learning to read. I haven't jumped in here with plenty of knowledge about these places and this industry. I kind of fell into it, and I have to learn where the fight is, and whether or not it's possible that this particular school, which is new-ish, might have found a different way by people who knew first hand that the old ways are ineffective.
Somewhere, either here or in one of the links to an unrelated site, I read that rather than using the wrist bend technique, a non-touching talking-till-they're-sick-of-listening approach seems to be more effective. Certainly it would behoove schools to give that a good try. It's still unclear to me that CALO is using the restraining techniques in a way that tortures and injures teens, and until I see evidence to the contrary, I'll continue to wonder.
http://www.provotruthexposed.com/pcsstaff.htm (http://www.provotruthexposed.com/pcsstaff.htm)
Therapy (c-change—2005 became Director of Bus. Dev.)
http://www.strugglingteens.com/artman/p ... 5208.shtml (http://www.strugglingteens.com/artman/publish/printer_5208.shtml)
KEN HUEY: WESTRIDGE CLINICAL DIRECTOR
(October 2, 2005) Ken Allen, Executive Director, Westridge Academy (formerly the Utah Boys Ranch), West Jordan, UT, 801-282-1007, announced that Ken Huey, PhD, is the new Director of Clinical Services. Huey will oversee all student programming, residential staff, therapists, spiritual advisors, recreation therapists and the new wilderness program. He worked at Provo Canyon School prior to this position at Westridge.
Mr. Ken Huey chose to work at schools where abuse took place. The aforesaid is a testament to his character. As far as the restraints go, Positive Control Systems utilizes "bent wrist control methods with variations." A restraint is not meant to be pleasant, especially PCS methods. Think for one second how those kids feel. They must comply in order to avoid pain or injury.
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This place ruined my life, truly, utterly and completely
Oh, please. Don't you think that's just a bit over dramatic? You're alive, and have a long life ahead. Remember what psy said...
If you come off as an extremist, you damage the entire cause as it reflects on all of "us".
and there is nothing I wouldn't do to keep that from happening to another teen, even if just one.
Come on now, that's not true in the slightest. Your 'activism' ends at your computer keyboard like most everyone else who posts here.
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This place ruined my life, truly, utterly and completely
Oh, please. Don't you think that's just a bit over dramatic? You're alive, and have a long life ahead. Remember what psy said...
If you come off as an extremist, you damage the entire cause as it reflects on all of "us".
and there is nothing I wouldn't do to keep that from happening to another teen, even if just one.
Come on now, that's not true in the slightest. Your 'activism' ends at your computer keyboard like most everyone else who posts here.
Oh, gee, another asshole whose IP could be subpoenaed. It would be SO fun to find out WHO these delightful person is!!
Fem’s activism goes far beyond this keyboard, as we all know.
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^The Who^ Dumbass.
I think perhaps you are right? Perhaps afraid of being sued, it assumed a 'noobie' personality?
I still recomend that Fem subpeaona the IP of the it that said her grandma died alone, unloved, etc.
Subpoena on what grounds? Anything actionable?
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Oh, gee, another asshole whose IP could be subpoenaed. It would be SO fun to find out WHO these delightful person is!!
Fem’s activism goes far beyond this keyboard, as we all know.
Oh, gee, another person on fornits who has lost touch with reality. What a shocking surprise!
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This place ruined my life, truly, utterly and completely
Oh, please. Don't you think that's just a bit over dramatic? You're alive, and have a long life ahead. Remember what psy said...
If you come off as an extremist, you damage the entire cause as it reflects on all of "us".
and there is nothing I wouldn't do to keep that from happening to another teen, even if just one.
Come on now, that's not true in the slightest. Your 'activism' ends at your computer keyboard like most everyone else who posts here.
You really have no idea what I've been through... You can assume all you want, but I stand by those statements, that's how I feel.
Futhermore, Fornits is just a message board I don't consider THIS my advocate work. While I utilize my computer for the cause being as its the most efficient way to receive and deliver information, I have never been limited to one medium of contact. I network and show my support in person, over the phone, and through various online outlets. I offer my design services pro bono and I've handled many other forms of operation within our cause. Like many of us as well, I also have to make a living, I'm not living off the momma and poppa dole so I have to do all of this in between my 2 jobs, and school or soon an epic internship... SO feel free to question me but I'm positive my dedication should be abundantly clear.
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Wouldn’t it be amusing to find out WHO it is?
No, not really. Most people, you know, sane people, aren't obsessed with internet troll the same you are. You need to enroll yourself in the closest mental health facility, or at the very least, take your medication.
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Thank you to Ursus, Guest, and FemanonFatal. I have, in the past, heard rumors about the "escort" services (thinking it was an invention of a television writer's mind), but the experience Fem has described makes my hair stand on end. Simply horrifying, and thank goodness those two places, at least, no longer exist. .
As you know, they indeed continue to exist. WWAP lives. So does Provo Canyon and Westridge.
In the links you gave, there was no mention of either of the CALO people who used to be somewhere else. I'll go back and see if I can find a link to their previous employment. .
Don't worry. We don't expect you to "find anything." Your purpose is to obfuscate and phish, and even though something is an uncontroverted part of the public record, why admit to it when it intereferes with your torture proponancy?
Ken Huey admits to overseeing torture on his website, as a way of positively establishing his "qualifications."
http://caloteens.com/staff.aspx (http://caloteens.com/staff.aspx)
“He joined Provo Canyon School at the beginning of 2003 and was named as their Director of Business Development in June of 2004. He left Provo Canyon in July of 2005 and joined West Ridge Academy as their Director of Clinical Services.”
I truly would like to believe that "that was then and this is now," and that CALO uses different techniques (the dogs, for example) and has gone in a different direction, even with those staff members. Isn't it possible that the staff members left there in order to start a place with a new and different methodology?
I truly would like to believe that "that was then and this is now," and that CALO uses different techniques (the dogs, for example) and has gone in a different direction, even with those staff members. Isn't it possible that the staff members left there in order to start a place with a new and different methodology?.
Sure thing. Later today I will shoot you in the head. A year later, should the police track me down, we will exchange tea and laugh, as hopefully they agree with your “that was then, this is now” philosophy.
I, mean, WHAT could it matter if Ken Huey was torturing and murdering the helpless 4 years ago? Its not like the lives of young people have VALUE, and their destruction should be regarded in ANY way.
Not only should Ken Huey not be in prison for sexually abusing, torturing and imprisoning helpless human beings, he should recreate EXACTLY the isolated, totalitarian captivity center he last tortured and murdered in and be granted the opportunity to recreate his special magic. Couldn’t agree more!
Somewhere, either here or in one of the links to an unrelated site, I read that rather than using the wrist bend technique, a non-touching talking-till-they're-sick-of-listening approach seems to be more effective. Certainly it would behoove schools to give that a good try.
"Schools" manage quite well without "training" teachers to bend the joints of students in order to control them. Gulags will never manage to control their prisoners without physical coersion and the constant threat of physical violence.
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Ken Huey admits to overseeing torture on his website, as a way of positively establishing his "qualifications."
http://caloteens.com/staff.aspx (http://caloteens.com/staff.aspx)
“He joined Provo Canyon School at the beginning of 2003 and was named as their Director of Business Development in June of 2004. He left Provo Canyon in July of 2005 and joined West Ridge Academy as their Director of Clinical Services.”
I truly would like to believe that "that was then and this is now," and that CALO uses different techniques (the dogs, for example) and has gone in a different direction, even with those staff members. Isn't it possible that the staff members left there in order to start a place with a new and different methodology?
Perhaps he left Provo because he disapproved of what went on there. Perhaps he was even let go or reprimanded for raising objections.
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Ken Huey admits to overseeing torture on his website, as a way of positively establishing his "qualifications."
http://caloteens.com/staff.aspx (http://caloteens.com/staff.aspx)
“He joined Provo Canyon School at the beginning of 2003 and was named as their Director of Business Development in June of 2004. He left Provo Canyon in July of 2005 and joined West Ridge Academy as their Director of Clinical Services.”
I truly would like to believe that "that was then and this is now," and that CALO uses different techniques (the dogs, for example) and has gone in a different direction, even with those staff members. Isn't it possible that the staff members left there in order to start a place with a new and different methodology?
Perhaps he left Provo because he disapproved of what went on there. Perhaps he was even let go or reprimanded for raising objections.
Then why is he not a whistleblower sounding the horn against Provo, like Dysfunction Junction? Why not witness against them? Why not issue reports and complaints against them? Quite decidedly, he did not.
Why, instead, list them and Westridge as proof of his "experience" "helping" "troubled" people?
“Secretly” objecting to torture, while participating in it, and furthering the aims of the torturers, doesn’t get people off the hook legally, and certainly not morally.
Indeed, you are Satan’s lawyer. I like your new personality over your old one, “houseguest.” It’s a little more honest.
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.................or PERHAPS .....
S/L
you have layed with enough dogs you have fleas ?
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This is the responsible, ethical thing to do, when expected to participate in the torture of detainees:
http://74.125.93.132/search?q=cache:Ugw ... clnk&gl=us (http://74.125.93.132/search?q=cache:UgwVX2tzQvUJ:www.thestraights.com/reports/barbero.htm+Sandi+Levy-Barbero&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us)
Neither Nicole Fuglsang, nor Ken Huey did anything of the sort. Instead, they reaped their "rewards" for participating in torture, imprisonment without due process, etc, both financially and (I'm guessing) psychologically. Later, after witnessing that one can do ANYTHING to teenagers, call it therapy, and make extraordinary amounts of money doing it, they started their own gulag, informed by their respective Synanon, Provo Canyon and Westridge academy foundations.
http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:QEk ... clnk&gl=us (http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:QEksVnu5YUYJ:ldssexchildabuse.blogspot.com/+westridge+academy+toture&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us)
As Nicole Fulgsang was associated with CEDU, Synanon, Hidden Lake Academy, and this group's policy was to have guards undergo their coercive persuasion therapies, it is a reasonable possibility she's not only a torturer for hire, but a bona fide cult member
http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:nJu ... clnk&gl=us (http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:nJuqlRTAQPQJ:www.heal-online.org/hiddenlake.htm+hidden+lake+academy+cedu&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us)
http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:fDr ... clnk&gl=us (http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:fDrqdvIykvAJ:liamscheff.com/daily/about-liam/press-inquirycontact-liam/+hidden+lake+academy+cedu&cd=9&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us)
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Guest, I don't know what horrors you have been through that have brought you to the point of this paranoia and suspicion and xenophobia, but it must have been truly awful, and I'm very sorry that you -- or any other person -- had to go through that. You've accused me of being several other people, none of whom I am. I'm also not an attorney -- the closest I come to that is watching Court TV. Actually, though, if I were a juror and you were a prosecutor presenting evidence, I don't think I would be able to convict anyone based on what you've presented. Maybe it's because I'm new here and don't know the territory -- which schools have been documented as bad, and which staff members have actually participated in cruelties or knew about them and allowed them to happen. But there are some big, blank spots in this particular jigsaw puzzle.
So far you've accused Ken Huey of everything up to and including murder -- where does that come from? If I were on this hypothetical jury, I would be trying to connect the dots, and so far most of the dots haven't been revealed to me. Maybe they won't be, since you don't trust me; but then I'll come away from this with a feeling that you are overreacting and looking for a target. I haven't seen anything that tells me that CALO is a bad place with an abusive staff.
I have never been to CALO or to any other residential school, except the one my daughter went to in Vermont. I'm not employed by CALO or any other facility -- I do freelance graphic production art at home. I just have a curiosity about why someone felt the need to cause additional trauma to teens who are there by putting their confidential information online. You have insulted my intelligence, called me names, and generally have been abusive to me. As I said, I have a couple message boards and I understand all too well the suspicion when a stranger shows up (which is why mine are by invitation only). I suspect nothing will convince you that I am who I say I am, so I'm not going to try. I will just do my best to ignore you.
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I see CALO(thewho?) has moved from legal threats to a sudden appearance of new posters arguing there is no evidence the "school" he runs is anything but sunshine and rainbows. They also don’t have the ability to connect "dots."
“What? Testimony of torture at the other gulags these individuals have run, one of which links back to the cult Synanon. I don’t understand your links. Me no read good.
Me heard terrible thing on this forum from someone. Me cant say who. Is secret. Me cry frozen tears for children with name on the internet. The trauma they feel is sad.
Ken Huey tortured kids at Provo Canyon and Westridge? Well, live and learn!"
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ME:
Did you do the ropes course?
XXXXXXXX:
yes I did
ME:
can you describe how that worked?
XXXXXXXX:
yeah
They had us get in a line silently. They picked their favorites first. Then if we got scared or said we were done. They would say we had to do more or it was regroup.
Then if you didn't cheer the others on. You would get on regroup and you could not leave the area
ME:
So you didn't have a choice about doing the ropes course, it was do it or get in trouble?
XXXXXXX:
Yes
ME:
What kind of regroups did you have to do?
XXXXXX:
I had to pick up hole punched dots on the ground and move them from cup to cup. With out stopping
I had to clean bathroom without gloves
dust fake plants
umm...pick up crumbs off the floor with my hands
scrub the floor with a toothbrush
scrub the floor
with a rag
ME:
this was for Ropes course?
XXXXXXXX:
umm well regroup was the same no matter what you did
ME:
Did regroup feel like a chance to reflect on the problem or did it feel like something else?
XXXXXX:
felt like a punishment Couldn't talk
couldn't even ask for the bathroom
They would tell you when you could go
to the bathroom
ME:
What did you do if you had to use the bathroom?
XXXXXXX:
You waited until they told you that you could go
ME:
you ever experience any pain or discomfort for having to wait for permission to use the bathroom?
XXXXXXX:
umm yes
ME:
and did you ever try to ask to go even though you knew you weren't supposed to?
XXXXXXXX:
Yes and I got rrestrained
ME:
For asking to use the bathroom, you got restrained?
XXXXXXX:
yes they did not like me questioning authority
ME:
Did you try to hurt yourself, hurt anyone else before this restraint?
XXXXXXXX:
no
well for other things
but not this
ME:
Ok.. so back to ropes course..
XXXXXXX:
okay
ME:
Did you have to complete ropes course to advance in CALO's program?
XXXXXXX:
yes
ME:
So it wasn't voluntary, you couldn't choose not to do it, and if you didn't do it you couldn't advance?
XXXXXXX:
yes
ME:
And if you got scared and stopped you'd get punished with a regroup?
XXXXXXX:
yes
ME:
Did anyone ever get restrained at the Ropes Course?
XXXXXXXX:
yes
ME:
Were they trying to hurt themselves or anyone else?
XXXXXXXX:
nope not all of the time
ME:
Do you think you got anything out of CALO's ropes course?
XXXXXXXX:
Nah not really
ME:
Did you see Ken Huey ever restrain a resident?
XXXXXXX:
a few
ME:
So a few people?
XXXXXX:
yes
ME:
Were they trying to hurt themselves or another?
XXXXXXX:
yes
ME:
Were they ever not trying to hurt themselves or another?
XXXXXXXX:
yes
ME:
And you saw Ken Huey try to restrain them?
XXXXXXX:
yes
he usually took over a restraint
for another staff
ME:
Did these restraints appear to be painful?
XXXXXX:
yes
most staff restrained kids painfully
ME:
Did the people being restrained ever beg staff to stop?
XXXXXXX:
yes
ME:
How did the staff respond?
XXXXXX:
they would either yell, cuss
or put them on regroup
rarely did they let them go
unless authority gave approval
ME:
Ok.. that's all I have time for now, do you mind if I edit this intertiew for grammar, spelling, and to protect your identity?
XXXXXXXX:
Yes
ME:
Do you give me permission to post this interview, in editted form, on a public forum on the internet?
XXXXXXXXX:
yes if NO ONE knows its me
ME:
Your name will never be uttered from my lips or fingertips.
thanks, I'll get this fixed up and posted. You've been a great help.
XXXXXXXXX:
okay thank you
sure thing
thanks
ME:
bye!
XXXXXXX:
bye
the...
FUCKING...
And that shit is happening right now to kids who have been identified.
I don't mean to impinge on Proxied's turf here but YOU HAVE THE KIDS' NAMES, HELP FIND THE FUCKING PARENTS!!!
[Redacted due to DMCA claim (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=27785)] Sabonis-Helf mother's name seems to be Theresa Sabonis-Helf. If this is the correct Sabonis-Helf, her contact info is or was:
+1 3014080995
8001 Glenside Dr, 20912, Takoma Park
I'm not even sure if they'd let me print this shit out at the library. Anyone with a printer at home mind snail mailing this shit? Fold it neatly and put a big fat flag stamp on it.
Those parents, and I use the term fucking LOOSELY, I hope to God your own kids sue you into oblivion for this. This is some royally sick shit. Look at this! Just read it! I know you don't give a damn about your kids but pretend it's YOU! Ken Huey, the idea that you would do ANYTHING to "protect the kids" is a fucking JOKE.
This is not therapy. This is not "treatment". This isn't even infantilist pedophilia as Proxied would have it. This is just FUCKING PSYCHOTIC SHIT.
Where the FUCK is what passes for Missouri's child services?
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Ken Huey
http://www.provotruthexposed.com/pcsstaff.htm (http://www.provotruthexposed.com/pcsstaff.htm)
Was a "therapist" at Provo canyon for a year until he became director of business development for a year. Impossible for him not to know what was going on, and to not have taken part in it.
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Maybe I'm a Pollyanna, but I would also like to believe that leopards, under different circumstances, might be able to change their spots, or at least their personalities.
Well... here's the thing: this industry catering to the parents of "troubled teens" didn't just spring up overnight. You go back in time and you'll find springboards in the Human Potential movement and the emergence of therapeutic communities as a means of "group control" during World War II. A more recent source would be the long defunct yet still infamous addiction treatment community called Synanon (California).
Although filling in the blanks is far beyond the capacity of a single post, suffice it to say that there is a significant CULTural ideology behind the industry. It's always nice to learn you're wrong in a case like this, but "Lifers" like Nicole Fulgsang and Ken Huey don't generally leave these kinds of communities, they perpetuate more of them.
Nicole Fuglsang previously worked at Hidden Lake Academy/Ridge Creek, as did Christy Jones.
Ken Huey started off at Provo Canyon School. He also worked at West Ridge Academy, along with CALO's Landon Kirk.
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Thanks for the info. This is a whole world I didn't know existed. I remember Synanon only from the snake-in-the-mailbox incident, which pretty much convinced me they were not a good bunch. I didn't know they were still around, if only as a model for others.
Interesting thing, I just saw a commercial for a new show coming on A&E called "The Cleaner" with Benjamin Bratt. From what I could see, it looks like he plays one of those guys who grabs addicts, takes them away, and forces them through withdrawal. I don't know how they will make him a likable main character.
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Hello. As you see by my login name, Ken Huey, I am certainly one of those in the middle of the various posts that have come in about CALO. There have been quite a number of statements made about CALO and our treatment, CALO students, CALO parents of students, Nicole Fuglsang, and about my own character and motivations. So far the vast majority of the discussion has been had without the benefit of any response from those who care about CALO.
I would respond with the most important request I can make relevant to this discussion: Please remove from these posts the names and treatment summaries of the children in our care. I am asking with a sincere plea. These kids have done nothing to any of you. To the person who calls him/herself “well proxied,” if you indeed care about these children do not use them as pawns because of your hatred for residential treatment. If your goal is to hurt CALO by such actions, that certainly is accomplished…but at what cost, at what collateral damage? I expect to take shots on the chin as I try to care for our students. Some people simply refuse to understand treatment or are angry at the residential treatment world for any number of reasons. That said, I have never in my career seen kids dragged into the middle of the fight in such an ugly and unfortunate way as this. Debate or attack me, disparage me, slander CALO, but please leave these children alone. Please.
The issue of the online posting of kids' names has gotten some play on this forum lately. I don't get why keeping this information up on some other site serves any purpose whatsoever, other than embarrassing the kids and violating their privacy...
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Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
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Irrelevant to my point, Joel.