Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Anonymous on April 29, 2009, 06:37:31 PM
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What is going to prevent the troubled teen industry from continuing to morph itself into various forms, and continue growing and gaining business into the future for decades? It seems like most anti program actions have been program specific, or they even just go after an individual. But no action has been taken against the industry as a system. What is the endgame in all of this, what exactly are you working toward?
I think the only long term solution is government regulation. They are the only people with the power to enforce a national ban on forced quakery. I notice some people here don't think that government is part of the solution, I wonder in their view what will end this industry. Or do they expect to battle it forever? Or do they hope, in vain, that parents will change for some reason?
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There is nothing to prevent the cruelty from morphing. For instance, with nursing homes you have http://http://www.medicare.gov/NHCompare/home.asp. Even that is only as good as the person who knows how to read between the lines, and who knows of its existence. Most people don't know either, unfortunately.
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regulation = validating the existence of an industry that should never exist. Regulation will do nothing. CPS is a fine example of a government run and regulated industry that does nothing to protect the rights of a child, despite the fact that it is their fucking goddamn job to do so.
I'm for abolition. But in the meantime, I think that liam has a point about establishing transparency, which is done through investigative journalism. Malpractice lawsuits, IMO, are the way to go in terms of pushing the machine to discredit the industry and eventually make it irrelevant.
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Actually, there has been an ongoing federal investigation for a couple of years now. Here's an article about that with links to the initial report: http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle/505 ... mp_horrors (http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle/505/gao_report_details_teen_boot_camp_horrors)
But I agree that yet more regulation will only further legitimize the industry.
There are a lot of different people involved in this issue, all doing various things with various objectives and strategies. My primary objective is to take away the fraudulent legal and moral authority that the industry has built and used over the years. My strategy is simply to raise a hew and cry and let the chips fly where they may.
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Personally, I like bring up regulation because it tends to kicks some programmies into some kind of psycotic tizzy. As if they really ought to be scared. Tsk.. tsk..
I've discussed my long term strategy before in another thread. I called, not very creatively either, the 'death by a thousand cuts' strategy. Though to be completely honest it really ought to be, 'death by 19 quadrillion cuts' because this god damn industry is like the mythical hydra. Doesn't matter how many damn heads you chop off they keep growing back.
The trick I guess is to use a bigger sword or buy a nuke.
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With permission - Spft's strategy:
1) Improve the wiki's, chart deaths and suicides. (On-going work)
2) Blog war (Started)
3) Tie connections with politicians around in various countries. (Started)
Our goal is also legislation but we acknowledge that money is involved and small steps are made.
In Denmark we started with none regulation, proceeded with poor regulation and while we are far from the goal the situation is better.
We are so lucky that scandals sells newspapers and parents are very protective of their youth. Lately even the police actions done in relationship with the demolition of Ungdomshuset (http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ungdomshuset) have been critized by the courts. Not even our court system can resist pressure from media and parents.
Our largest TV-station went after drug treatment in Denmark based on the treatment strategy by Hazelden Foundation (http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hazelden). In Denmark it is the tax-payers money who goes to treatment of alcohol and drugs. Almost in every case people can get treatment for free. So treatment has to work and it is the claim of the TV-station and government experts that 12 step treatment can cause more harm than good. It is not worth the price.
We must not forget that while Fornits contains very useful info, the work to stop the industry has to done outside Fornits. I urge survivors to tell their story in a blog. Name the program, write your story with the level maturity you have today but fell free to hide your identity if your life today have been rebuilt with your past on a need-to-know basis only. Put a link into the blog to either the Wiki-database or the future TTI database.
It doesn't matter if we are talking Roloff programs of the 70's or a program you left days ago. Some may know of a book coming up called "Google bomb". Lets bury made up success stories in stories about how it really was.
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Overall I think public awareness is the most powerful tool to bring down the industry. If it can be common knowledge that programs, RTC and TBS's have a history of child abuse and law breaking then parents will not be so quick to resort to the program as any kind of solution to their teenage problems.
What I don't understand is why parents are never willing to look at themselves as part of the problem, why is sending the child away always the solution. This is the mind-state we have to challenge, having someone else raise your child for you should NOT be an acceptable choice or a fad.
The best way to change the way that the public views these places is to slowly but surely give the whole industry a stigma, and I find the best way to do that is to filter our testimony into all areas of the media and over the internet. In short just get heard one way or another. I still dont understand why the media hasn't made a bigger deal about this, why is it that people are more up in arms about the "terrorists" in Gitmo being abused then they are about their own children???
I think its going to take a BIG public demonstration for the media to take notice... and that's what I plan to do.
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What I don't understand is why parents are never willing to look at themselves as part of the problem, why is sending the child away always the solution.
It may be more helpful to get out there and meet more parents. In almost all the cases I have seen the parents are very open to ideas and scratching their heads looking for solutions and do not remove themselves as possible causes or at least part of the problem. Most are very open minded and are willing to share the responsibility. But I think you comment speaks to just human nature itself. When there is a problem people naturally think it is caused by something external to them and that they are not the cause. Look at all the survivor posts. It is extremely rare to read about any of them taking responsibility for their actions or making statements like “I wish I had avoided all of this by listening to my parents moreâ€... ‘I should have stayed in schoolâ€.... Most of the posts are about blaming the parents or program staff. So I see the parents as being more receptive and open minded if you compared the two.
This is the mind-state we have to challenge, having someone else raise your child for you should NOT be an acceptable choice or a fad.
Parents are not looking to have someone else raise their child. The raising has, for the most part, already been accomplished. These kids (to many here at fornits acknowledgement) are almost ready to fly the coop. So trying to challenge parents that they are handing off responsibility just isn’t accurate and will not be effective in my opinion.
The best way to change the way that the public views these places is to slowly but surely give the whole industry a stigma, and I find the best way to do that is to filter our testimony into all areas of the media and over the internet. In short just get heard one way or another. I still dont understand why the media hasn't made a bigger deal about this, why is it that people are more up in arms about the "terrorists" in Gitmo being abused then they are about their own children???
I think its going to take a BIG public demonstration for the media to take notice... and that's what I plan to do.
Agreed, but we also need to drop the black and white mentality that all programs are the same and are abusive. Adjust the language to drop gulag and detainees etc, because the parents read this and automatically know it is a hoax or some kid with an agenda. Try to remember the audience you are trying to convince and speak to them on their level.
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here's my other reason I dislike regulation:
It gives the industry the opportunity to get sneakier. Regulation doesn't curtail abuse, it just makes it harder to spot.
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I think you comment speaks to just human nature itself. When there is a problem people naturally think it is caused by something external to them and that they are not the cause. Look at all the survivor posts. Most of the posts are about blaming the parents or program staff. So I see the parents as being more receptive and open minded if you compared the two.
Actually, that's not true, if you have read any survivor testimonies you will hear the FIRST thing that they say is what they were doing at home that got them sent to the program. I don't think you really grasp the whole concept of our message, posting here on Fornits is not entirely what this movement is about, this is just a place where we all have been coming to talk and rarely do we reiterate our life stories, or our teenage problems. If you want to hear what a survivor really has to say you should start reading our written testimonies.
So trying to challenge parents that they are handing off responsibility just isn’t accurate and will not be effective in my opinion.
So you are implying, by the time a kid reaches 14-16 years old it in no longer the responsibility of the parents to "parent" their teens through their adolescence? I honestly believe that the teen years are the time that the parents need to learn the most about what good parenting really is. The teen years is when you need to learn how to give them space and support at the same time, how to develop trust instead of punishment and alter your parenting style based on the individual needs of your child (ie if there is existence of a mental disorder or drug problem) and how to teach them about live without exasperating their normal teenage rebelliousness.
Adjust the language to drop gulag and detainees etc, because the parents read this and automatically know it is a hoax or some kid with an agenda. Try to remember the audience you are trying to convince and speak to them on their level.
Im sorry but you have to get over the whole "language" issue here, we use these words for a reason. When I say I was tortured that is not a word used to exaggerate that I was forced to do something I didn't want to do, that actually means I was physically assaulted and forced to endure stress positions in dog cages in the hot desert sand in 105 degree heat. When I say i was brainwashed that doesn't mean I was resistant to "change" it means I was subjected to mind control techniques that included a doctrine that encouraged immorality and was enforced by the fear of physical assault and social isolation.
We are NOT going to sugar coat the truth so you parents can feel better about this, and we surely aren't going to advertise that there are "some" programs out there that aren't as bad as those that we went to. That just totally negates the concept of RAISE YOUR OWN KIDS FOR FUCKS SAKE!! Don't depend on ANY residental treatment, not even the government state regulated facilities, because abuse and oppression runs rampant in this entire industry. I'm not going to say that there are good programs out there unless I know without a shadow of a doubt that that specific program does not operate a "tough love" system and isn't reliant on a religion to "cure" kids of their adolescent behavior. Even with that being said, a program that adhered to a specific set of standards I would deem appropriate for a teen care center wouldn't even be considered in the same category as a RTC or TBS, so in my opinion the WHOLE TROUBLED TEEN INDUSTRY is to be avoided. Period.
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or some kid with an agenda
God forbid should someone have an agenda.
I understand what you are saying, however, and imo, its entirely contingent on your audience.
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Overall I think public awareness is the most powerful tool to bring down the industry.
Agreed. This looks like a great film:
http://www.selfmedicated.com/trailer.html (http://www.selfmedicated.com/trailer.html)
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0341569/ (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0341569/)
It's based on true events - about a mother who hires a private company to forcibly kidnap her son and confine him in a locked-down and corrupt psychiatric hospital.
It seems like we're transitioning from propaganda (Not My Kid) to honest and factual portrayals of these places that promise to "fix your kid." (Self-medicated, Over the GW).
Hopefully things continue in this direction.
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NO offense, but if these are the best ideas... the TTI is going to be around for a LONG time.
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We need a celebrity spokesperson. and some powerful people with money behind the cause.
considering the current economic climate i would postpone your hopes for the above for at least another 3 years.
but, the economic climate is also doing us a favor by decreasing TTI business by default.
in my opinion, the TTI will loose popularity soon with or without our help. it's a fad, not an institution. people nationwide are smartening up. reaganism is dead. the war on drugs is at the brink of a climactic conclusion. just look at what's happening with marijuana and gay marriage across the country - bills are being passed left and right. intergenerational conflicts regarding those two issues alone make up at least a third of the TTI's business. parents are starting to change their mind on a lot of issues. there is an emerging liberal climate in the nation. the TTI flourished with the "institutionalized morality" propaganda that went along with the decades under neoconservativism, a movement that is shunned by the masses and basically on life support at this moment.
do not fear, the end is nieh! :rasta:
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We need a celebrity spokesperson. and some powerful people with money behind the cause.
considering the current economic climate i would postpone your hopes for the above for at least another 3 years.
i know some recent graduates of ASW and HLA who are potentially up and coming celebrities. if their fame lasts we have our spokespeople.
for those of you in disbeleif, keep in mind that ASW and HLA were full of kids who belonged rich and/or famous families. there were a few very talented individuals in the mix too.
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We need a celebrity spokesperson. and some powerful people with money behind the cause.
considering the current economic climate i would postpone your hopes for the above for at least another 3 years.
i know some recent graduates of ASW and HLA who are potentially up and coming celebrities. if their fame lasts we have our spokespeople.
for those of you in disbeleif, keep in mind that ASW and HLA were full of kids who belonged rich and/or famous families. there were a few very talented individuals in the mix too.
Oh god, I can just see Paris Hilton being a poster child for this. "Send your kid to CEDU, see what happens."
Or Joe Francis, of Girls Gone Wild. Now there's another winner for you.
Spend your teen years in a program and you are guaranteed D list status.
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Rosanne Barr can testify how much good RMA did her kid.
:timeout:
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well maybe when we do have the funds to set up a fundraiser event we can invite some of the celebs that have done movies or shows that portray the program, for instance Mia Kunis did a movie called Boot Camp and Hayden Christensen did a show. I would also like to invite Ron Howard, I think he has some personal experience with the programs.
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:facepalms:
Fucking scary that the future of an entire movement has to be pinned on Hollywierd.
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It's not all pinned on hollywood. but having hollywood/entertainment as a whole on your side helps quite a bit.
not many people gave a shit about giving aid to africa till bob geldof and bono came around.
a mention from oprah can mean the difference between being a bargain bin author and a bestseller.
look at the free tibet movement - the concerts propelled the issue from an obscure problem only hippies and Buddhists care about to a national college fad.
or look at susan sarandon. or brangelina. list goes on and on and on and on.
americans care more about tabloid celebrity news than important events. if you get the celebrities to bring the news to americans, they suddenly get interested. it's not just the news too...it's everything. eight out of every ten TV ads have a recognizable face, name or voice behind them. theres a reason for that. Pure information doesnt work on americans. it has to be infotainment one way or another.
i know it sucks that people have to rely on celebrities this way...it's horrible it's come to this. but remember the people we are dealing with (parents of "troubled teens") are the exact kind of people who lack the capacity for independent thought necessary to comprehend pure logical information and need it presented in a nice, easy to digest simple candy coated package.
america is a nation of hamburgers and french fries with coca cola, not filet minion or rack of lamb with french baked potatoes and wine. any information presented to the american masses must also be in hamburger form, not filet minion, if you want the majority of the people to eat it. It takes time and effort to cook and eat a filet minion, americans simply dont have the will to put in the time and effort to eat something like that regularly, hence the sucess of mcdonalds. it also takes a level of sophistication to appreciate the filet minon or wine, and understand the subtleties of it. Information is the same as food. we are sophisticated enough to understand the subtleties of the TTI, but most americans dont give a shit untill they are down to the 48 hours time they give to decide where to send their at risk about to do something stupid kids. they need their info in hamburger form. quick and easy. thats the edge that a celebrity spokesperson can give us.
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That and look at what good all the aid did Africa? Ethiopia, which did have 3 million people suffer in the famines of the 80's, still had 60 million that could adequately feed themselves through farming in the Ethiopian highlands.
Now they have a whole generation of dumbasses who don't know how to farm anymore because it is far easier to stagger to the nearest aid drop off to get a free bag of whatever. Entire shipments of clothing, building materials, books, and other crap sent by clueless dogooders are hawked at open air markets all Ethiopia.
So I wouldn't cite the success of Bono in this one. If anything Bono and chums did more long term harm to Africa than they did good.
The same spokesperson that gives us an edge can be used against us as well. We trot out our celeb and they trot our theirs. Given the number of nose candy sniffing retards traipsing around Hollywierd I'd say they have us pretty outnumbered in that category.
Consider the law of unintended consequences before inviting some Hollywierder or the likes of them into something like this long and hard before you do it.
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That and look at what good all the aid did Africa? Ethiopia, which did have 3 million people suffer in the famines of the 80's, still had 60 million that could adequately feed themselves through farming in the Ethiopian highlands.
Now they have a whole generation of dumbasses who don't know how to farm anymore because it is far easier to stagger to the nearest aid drop off to get a free bag of whatever. Entire shipments of clothing, building materials, books, and other crap sent by clueless dogooders are hawked at open air markets all Ethiopia.
So I wouldn't cite the success of Bono in this one. If anything Bono and chums did more long term harm to Africa than they did good.
The same spokesperson that gives us an edge can be used against us as well. We trot out our celeb and they trot our theirs. Given the number of nose candy sniffing retards traipsing around Hollywierd I'd say they have us pretty outnumbered in that category.
Consider the law of unintended consequences before inviting some Hollywierder or the likes of them into something like this long and hard before you do it.
well...duh.
bono and freinds just had a bad strategy. sure.
but your analogy doesnt work. we are not looking for donations. we would be looking to purely raise awareness. bono and freinds did that very well.
as a side note, the aid to africa going bad is not the people's fault, it's the governments and the warlords faults. they steal half the aid. in in the case of ethiopia, the people arnt lazy bums who cant do anything themselves. they are uneducated and their land has very little capacity for farming anything except cabbage and in a few tiny areas, rice. much of africa, the parts were aid has gone sour, are unable in most cases to fend to "start farming themselves". they usually die of disease or starvation before they hit their teen years, and half the people who make it past that point get killed in regional conflicts. sure, aid in many ways only makes things worse; but the problem is not with the aid itself, it's how it's distributed and used by the local goverments. the issue is much, much deeper than what you say. dont point your finger at issues you know nothing about.
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Whooo weee.. back up a second.
Your presumption that I know nothing based on what?
I've seen enough NGO corruption for myself to know how it generally works in the 3rd World.
As for Ethiopia their problems aren't with Warlords. It stems from the long civil war that occurred between Northern Ethiopia and Southern Ethiopia. Somalia is another deal, but their issues are even more complex and are being aggravated even more by idiotic NGO workers and dumbshit Hollywierders who seem to think its gravy to shovel tonnes of money and wheat at the problem.
Ethiopia has more than enough land to feed its population, 70 percent of Ethiopia is arable, while only 11 percent of that total is actually used. What cripples most of Ethiopia and other parts of Africa is not the ability to grow food. They are well versed in traditional African farming techniques enough as it is. What cripples their ability to cope with a drought or natural disaster is the storage off food.
Seriously, if the western world really wanted to help Africa they'd send in the Amish.
As for Boner, Paris Twaton, and the rest of the Hollywierd crowd it is a sword that cuts two ways. They can just as easily find someone to say, "OMG! Rehab saved my life! I LOOOVE REhab! YAY!" and so on and so forth.
I've never said it doesn't have the potential to raise awareness, but it also has the potential to cut both ways.
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let me just say i really don't think our long term strategy includes celebrities, fundraising is really only a small part of it, in fact only a stepping stone to allow us to be able to do the work that actually makes a difference. so lets talk about that.
Here is my idea:
At first stages we need to approach this issue with caution as to not tarnish our reputation with outrage and left over teenage rebellion... our goals will be mainly public awareness, fundraising, public demonstration, media outreach and solidifying our presence as youth advocates.
I know a lot of people here have a problem with regulation, but I think the second part of our long term strategy should be to encourage our government to completely outlaw the "tough love" program model. I agree that just regulating these schools gives them too much leeway to get clever with hiding their abuse, but the proof is always in the pudding, if more teens come out of these facilities with claims of abuse we can prove that the tough love model and specifically these people running these places cant be given the benefit of the doubt with regulation. That should help us segway into another bill, a bill that wont cost our government a long term budget, and will shut down all programs that don't already meet the youth care standards and bring criminal charges against any and all staff/owners named in cases of abuse, maltreatment and endangerment. INCLUDING some of the parents! I think that should send a clear enough message.
Then after that we help rebuild. Community centers that are specifically geared toward teenage issues and struggling families are KEY to helping kids stay out of the reach of these abusive programs. Mapping out the model and standards for such community centers and really pushing it on the state and county level can help our society to grow out of this whole reliance on residential treatment and start working on family problems at home.
I think we have a long road ahead of us before we can achieve these things, hence the fact that it is a long term strategy but I believe that we have to keep these things in mind in order to have hope and keep pushing forward. OF COURSE this isn't final draft and doesn't include every step and everyone's choice of strategy, but I think this is the direction I would like to go.
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WHEN THE RAPTURE COMES
CAN I HAVE YOUR FLAT SCREEN?
LOL - well sure - and help yourself to all the food hoarded away in the basement too ;)
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What is going to prevent the troubled teen industry from continuing to morph itself into various forms, and continue growing and gaining business into the future for decades? It seems like most anti program actions have been program specific, or they even just go after an individual. But no action has been taken against the industry as a system. What is the endgame in all of this, what exactly are you working toward?
I think the only long term solution is government regulation. They are the only people with the power to enforce a national ban on forced quakery. I notice some people here don't think that government is part of the solution, I wonder in their view what will end this industry. Or do they expect to battle it forever? Or do they hope, in vain, that parents will change for some reason?
The longer it takes the more dire and drastic the actions to be taken by those acting to stop this. I for one do not have infinite patience. Even if I did, eventually there comes a point when you have to look at yourself and think about what's more important. Being nice, or getting kid number umpteen-million out of the fucking torture camber, as well as every other boy and girl in all the other programs.
Protests can only be polite and patient for so long while this happens. Is this not the kind of event, on any scale, much less one so widespread, that would call for mobs with pitchforks and torches? If not, what the hell qualifies for that anymore?
The sociopathic or just apathetic behavior and feelings on the part of the average American is appalling, but I can bitch about that after I don't have to block out the fact that I can just look up the address of a modern day inquisition and go travel and see for myself if I had the time and money to go do so.
Why not just load up a bus and go to the house of Ken Kay and ask him ourselves? Get some posters and billboards and call up CNN, the BBC and Al-Jazeera while we're at it. Between the three of them at least one would present it without some bullshit spin.