Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Anonymous on August 12, 2003, 12:09:00 PM
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I am not sure who stated that people (like Betsy and Carey) are trying to confuse the issue of Teen Help/WWASPS in finding faults in Pure, honestly, this is not about Pure. But that is their smoke screen. Trying to get us to discredit others to take the heat off of them. I dont know Pure or have anything to do with them, but looking at the website shows me they must be making some dent in Teen Helps enrollment. I think of it this way, if they weren't; WHY WOULD WWASPS THEY WASTE TIME AND MONEY SUING THEM?
I am not a Pure supporter, but I am certainly grateful that website is up. It seems WWASPS is taking control of many of the anti WWASPS boards such as BS4. Not control, but where did they go? Guess they can't shut up Pure, and that must scare them so now they have the Betsy's and Carey's (with there own anon's) attempting to shift our thoughts. Sorry guys, not working.
Again, no, I am not a Pure person, but you bet I support any anti WWASPS site.
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The fact that PURE has launched an all-out smear campaign against Carey speaks volumes about what PURE's agenda is all about. Covering their asses.
Hopefully they will figure out the cat is already out of the bag.
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HELLLLLLOOOOOOO - CAREY CREATED HER OWN CAMPAIGN. IF YOU HAVENT BEEN HERE, CAREY IS THE ONE THAT STARTED ALL THIS CRAP WITH HER OBESSIONS. MANY OF US COULD CARE LESS ABOUT PURE AND CAREY COULDNT STAND THAT. SHE TRIED TO SUCK US ALL INTO HER PERSONAL VENDETTI, AND IT DIDNT WORK. WELL, UNLESS YOU COUNT HER TALKING TO HERSELF.
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Pssst, what sucks is all these PURE Supporter SUCK-UPS. Talk about looney-tunes.
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Complaining and reactivity are favorite mind patterns through which the ego strengthens itself. For many people, a large part of their mental-emotional activity consists of complaining and reacting against this or that. By doing this, you make others or a situation "wrong" and yourself "right". Through being "right", you feel superior, and through feeling superior, you strengthen your sense of self. In reality, of course, you are only strengthening the illusion of ego.
Can you observe those patterns within yourself and recognize the complaining voice in the head for what it is?
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On 2003-08-12 09:09:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I am not sure who stated that people (like Betsy and Carey) are trying to confuse the issue of Teen Help/WWASPS in finding faults in Pure, honestly, this is not about Pure. But that is their smoke screen. Trying to get us to discredit others to take the heat off of them.
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Ooops, hit the send key before replying! I don't think anyone is "trying" to discredit PURE. They did that themselve(s.) Some are exposing the facts. Who is smoke screening whom?
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Where there's smoke there's usually fire! The smoke screen IS PURE posting as many, many different people, both ANON and with names. The people that claim to be legitimate have recently been exposed as PURE supporters. It's a smear campaign, and it seems to be working.
In reading back, it looks like Carey knew what was going on, with the ensuing attacks on her mental stability. I'm being attacked for calling it like I see it. Carey doesn't even know me, nor do I her.
What I have seen is PURE supporters fabricating stories and responses to make a point. Who else would post this stuff?
Betsy
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On 2003-08-12 10:02:00, Anonymous wrote:
"HELLLLLLOOOOOOO - CAREY CREATED HER OWN CAMPAIGN. IF YOU HAVENT BEEN HERE, CAREY IS THE ONE THAT STARTED ALL THIS CRAP WITH HER OBESSIONS. MANY OF US COULD CARE LESS ABOUT PURE AND CAREY COULDNT STAND THAT. SHE TRIED TO SUCK US ALL INTO HER PERSONAL VENDETTI, AND IT DIDNT WORK. WELL, UNLESS YOU COUNT HER TALKING TO HERSELF."
Why would you not care about PURE? They are all over this board like stink on shit! Unless, of course, you are PURE supporters! :rofl:
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betsy, you seem to put a lot of energy into pure, are you afraid of something with them? i for one support any anti wwasps website. does anti wwasps always point to pure? hate to burst your bubble but wwasps did many of us wrong, pure or not. keep pointing to pure it is good for us anti wwasps people and anyone considering wwasps.
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Does the WWASPS site point to PURE? No.
Does PURE point to Anti-WWASPS sites. Yes
Does PURE have WWASPS propaganda on their site? Yes.
Does PURE have a good reason to be doing that? You tell me. I say yes. It's all in the court document.
What I see is defamation of character hiding here and on other sites.
The more I see through this, the more I realize that WWASPS is credible and has gotten a bad rap of late mostly originating from PURE.
Does WWASPS please 100% of the people 100% of the time. No.
But 97.4% ain't a bad thing.
Actually, I do have other things to tend to, and it really isn't that important unless you're a PURE supporter. I just find it fascinating.
Betsy
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Betsy,
You said: The more I see through this, the more I realize that WWASPS is credible and has gotten a bad rap of late mostly originating from PURE.
Does WWASPS please 100% of the people 100% of the time. No.
But 97.4% ain't a bad thing
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Weren't you the one presenting yourself as neutral, objective, NOT a WWASP supporter, just someone asking legitimate questions?
Your comments tonight reveal you for the fraud you are, reveal how manipulating and deceptive you WWASPers can be.
WWASP credible? Excluding the allegations of abuse, credible is still not a word that describes WWASP.
Deborah
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Deborah - read anything into it that fits. I was neutral. I'm still not a WWASPS supporter, but I see their credibility and integrity far exceeds anything I'm reading on this forum. My neutrality has shifted.
Fraud?? Look, if possible, with new eyes, as a newbie to this forum and you may also see what I see.
Betsy -
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You may be a newbie on this board, but you're no stranger to the topic.
Lee's welcome:
Betsy, hello ol gal!!! Welcome aboard!!!
Just sarcasim? Perhaps, but not the typical greeting for a newbie. Seems to imply that you've been around the block a few times, just not at Fornits, ol gal.
And if what you say is true:
I'm still not a WWASPS supporter, but I see their credibility and integrity far exceeds anything I'm reading on this forum. My neutrality has shifted.
then might we look forward to your departure, now that you've arrived at a conclusion? Seems you might fit in better at the Big Bullshit Board anyway.
You never answered my question. Why are you here? What possessed you to crash THIS particular board? At precisely the moment the WWASP/PURE debate was in full swing? And, of all the topics you could've picked (as a "newbie"), you selected the WWASP/PURE debate. The first words out of your mouth were...what's this board about really....not WWASP.
Do you really expect anyone to believe that you just happened upon this board out of curiosity, and have quickly drawn a conclusion about the "credibility and intergrity" of WWASP? Give us a f-in break. You WWASPers live in a pretty weird lala land. And your total ignorance regarding other's ability to see through your bullshit is astounding.
You haven't "seen through" anything. You're still as blind as ever.
Deborah
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Betsy,
FYI Pure's purpose is to help parents from not making the WWASP mistake.Yopu give Pure way to much credit.
WWASP is the fearful one.You can bet they are sorry the ever pursued to sue Pure..
Defamation my ass.....
Here's another P word that relates to WWASP .How do you spell Pedophiles.......!!!
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Sounds like a threat to an outsider for crashing our little party.
Pedophiles? Are you talking about the Catholic Church again?????
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Hey Betsy,
There's another question waiting for you in the "Teen Esteem/WWASPS Spam" thread.
For a stranger, your name sure is mentioned frequently.
Deborah
The Question:
I don't know, seems to me something deeper is going on here. What do you think Betsy? Is there a PURPOSE to bragging about one's indoor plumbing on the world wide web?
http://www.obetz.com/utah/3.htm (http://www.obetz.com/utah/3.htm)
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Help me out guys -
lets see if we can pin down how wwasp comes up with their much touted very high success rate?
I suspect its not done with any kind of generally accepted method of polling.
I suspect it is so slanted and limited in its scope, that it is in fact worthless as a true gage of parent/student satisfaction.
Anyone got any idea how they go about attaining their "percentages"?
http://www.jinxmagazine.com/cia_torture.html (http://www.jinxmagazine.com/cia_torture.html)
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Gauging Ken Kay's much-repeated success rate percentages....how did he get those numbers?
Well, I can paraphrase one person's experience (I can't directly quote because she is paranoid about being sued by WWASPS, and I didn't take the time to email her back and forth for permission to quote this time).
This mother sent her ADHD son to Spring Creek for a better education, attended all the seminars with her husband, could not speak to her kid because he was not "progressing", ignored his persistent pleas by mail about his situation [regretfully called herself "the perfect Program parent]. She was being told, however, that he was doing OK, just a little slow. She put a stack of pretty brochures for distribution by her store's cash register and referred others to the lie of WWASPS because somehow she believed it. During this time, she was mailed a questionnaire from St. George. It said basically, "Are you happy with the program? Would you refer others to the Program?" Apparently there were only 3 or 4 questions of the vaguest sort. One would assume these questionnaires were only sent to happy parents with kids still in the Program. IOW, there was absolutely no "survey" made, and the success rate seems fabricated and unchallenged. In fact, I have seen Kay quoted in several different places with different percentage numbers for any given interview...whatever suits his fancy that day, I imagine.
The son was at SCL for 8 months, going nowhere, when WWASPS suggested he might benefit from the more diverse "cultural experience" at Tranquility Bay. This mother had him escorted ($2500) to Jamaica, and still was not able to speak to him. Her first call was at 13 months, and she spoke to him a total of 3 times in the 16 months he was in WWASPS. What finally woke her up? When her son wrote her about an exorcism at TB, a kid who she later assumed was having a nervous breakdown, was taken screaming into the showers where staff "washed the blood of Christ over him".
Even though she had been continually told by her family reps that the kid was doing OK, when she finally arrived to bring him home, various staffers told her they were glad she was taking him because "he cries all the time" and "he really doesn't belong here".
A victim of severe post-traumatic stress syndrome, this child's therapy is costing more than WWASP ever charged to put him into that situation. He is very bitter that his parents believed staff reports and ignored his own pleas. He is living at home (he's still quite young). Hopefully, he will be able to eventually heal.
And this, folks, is the story of one family who filled out the questionnaire as one of the 94.7% happy families.
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Sue :rofl: - thanks for your PURE report. Let this mother know she can post here anytime of her son's horrific experiences. Or should I say post here on the Book of Fiction.
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FUCK ALL OF YOU MOTHER FUCKERS THAT LIKE THE PROGRAM YOU PEOPLE MAKE ME SICK!!! YOU GUYS ARE LYING STEALING CHEATING BITCHES AND CAN GO SUCK A FUCKING DICK!! FUCK YOU!!!
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The info Spots posted is accurate. I received that same questionnaire every month for the 18 months my child was at TB. I haven't received one since he came home.
Also, I posted this in another thread but it applies to this one as well --
Quoted from WWASP letter:
"Our high parent satisfaction rate is further evidenced by the fact that we received 1,344 Letters of Appreciation from parents during 2001 and 1,739 Letters of Appreciation from parents during 2002."
What they left out is the fact that one of the seminar homework assignments is to write a letter of appreciation to your child's school, or to WWASP, or to your Family Rep or to all of the above.
So let's recap: There is no independent research that confirms the "satisfation rate" and one of the seminar requirements is to write a letter to the program telling them how wonderful they are. Talk about manipulative....
Judy
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Thank you Judy. :wink:
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On 2003-08-14 10:08:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Sue :rofl: - thanks for your PURE report. Let this mother know she can post here anytime of her son's horrific experiences. Or should I say post here on the Book of Fiction. "
Just for clarification...You know my name is Sue because I told everyone. Do you know my name is not Sue Scheff? If you look on strugglingteens.com in the Industry Reports section, you can find my last name on the most recent post...but, then, I don't think from your activity on this forum that you are much into research. You can only spout program rhetoric and sarcastic venom.
As to Book of Fiction? I really couldn't, in my wildest imagination, come up with such a story. Before meeting people like you, I couldn't imagine any parent turning over a child to strangers with no safeguards. I couldn't imagine any company doing such mental damage to teenagers just for the money. I couldn't imagine the forces that suck people into a cult and then have heretofore-intelligent adults talk in rote about nonsense.
This is a major problem in alerting the world to what is going on. No one can believe it.
Ken Lyle (?) in his widely-published affidavit about his Discovery Seminar has an insight. He heard the Facilitator say, "There is no right and wrong". People around Ken then said, "He's right. There is no right or wrong, He's right."
DDDUUUUHHHHHHHH.......nonsense, and you believe it and repeat it!
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Spots
As to Book of Fiction? I really couldn't, in my wildest imagination, come up with such a story. Before meeting people like you, I couldn't imagine any parent turning over a child to strangers with no safeguards. I couldn't imagine any company doing such mental damage to teenagers just for the money. I couldn't imagine the forces that suck people into a cult and then have heretofore-intelligent adults talk in rote about nonsense.
This is a major problem in alerting the world to what is going on. No one can believe it.
Ever see the movie "The People Under the Stairs"? It's a silly, almost slap-stick horror story. But it gave me persistant nightmares. Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
--Albert Einstein
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[ring] ... [ring] ... [ring]
MG: Hello?
MP: Hi, Mrs. Gullible?
MG: Yes, this is Mrs. Gullible. What can I do for you.
MP: Hi, my name is Mary Philips. You might remember me from the PTA meetings?
MG: Um, maybe. What's this about?
MP: Well, there's no easy way to handle this, so I'll just come right out with it. You know that tennis pro, Joe Pure Snakeoil, who's been giving private lessons to a lot of the girls around here?
MG: Why yes! Isn't he wonderful! They say the girls that stick with it and master his technique all have gone on to lucrative tennis careers!
MP: Uh, well, that's what we thought when we sent our little Olivia to take lessons. Turns out, he just takes a lot of money, rapes the girls and then castigates them as losers if they tell.
MG: Ya' know, Jack told me about people like you! You're just jealous because your little girl didn't have what it takes to be a pro!
MP: No, really. Dozens of little girls have complained. But he's slick. The police can't make a case against him and he keeps talking his way out of it and getting a pass. But if you love your daughter, you should look into his background.
On 2003-08-13 19:40:00, Anonymous wrote:
Actually, I do have other things to tend to, and it really isn't that important unless you're a PURE supporter. I just find it fascinating.
Betsy
Unfuckbelievable!!!!! ::jawdrop::
To make certain that crime does not pay, the government should take it
over and try to run it
--G. Norman Collie
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Actually Spots, I see that you are not Sue Scheff, however, you admitted to being involved with PURE in a BIG way. Whatever that means to the others, I don't care personally.
You quote what you think has happened in the seminars or what was said. Whatever is in print is not complete. Let me clarify:
I think Dr. Phil got ahold of this from the seminars, cuz he uses it a lot. What is really said is: It's not about right or wrong, it's about what's working or not working." Now this is not used in the context of murder, rape, etc. It's used in the context of choices we make. Obviously there is a right and wrong in murder and rape!
If you want to know processes, etc., you'll just have to get over your fear and just go. Anyone is welcome that isn't afraid of a little personal growth.
Darlene
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Hey Darlene,
Guess you are not a Pure fan either. What I think is funny is someone made this a split of either WWASPS or Pure. Since Pure is anti WWASPS I would be considered a Pure fan. Funny, I don't even know Pure, but if that is the opposite side of WWASPS I am there. Pure and proud of it.
Darlene, have you looked at http://www.rickross.com (http://www.rickross.com) check out the warning signs.
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Darlene wrote:
I think Dr. Phil got ahold of this from the seminars, cuz he uses it a lot. What is really said is: It's not about right or wrong, it's about what's working or not working." Now this is not used in the context of murder, rape, etc. It's used in the context of choices we make. Obviously there is a right and wrong in murder and rape!
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The warehousing of teens is wrong. Abduction is wrong. Abuse of teens for profit is wrong. Mental rape is wrong. Murdering another's psyche and spirit is wrong.
DrP would not support a program that subjected teens to the abuse that has been alleged. He has thrashed parents for spanking their kids. Did you miss that episode?
Deborah
http://www.jinxmagazine.com/cia_torture.html (http://www.jinxmagazine.com/cia_torture.html)
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Actually, I think Dr. Phil would approve wholeheartedly of these programs. He doesn't want parents taking it upon themselves to smack their kids' hind side. But if a paid, certified, approved professional wants to slam them on the floor and make them hold their chin up for a few hours, well carry on then! Carry on!
I can't watch the SOB. Reminds me too much of the program. Him and Maurey Povich putting 13 yo girls on the lie detector and grilling them about their sexual experience. It litterally makes me nauseous. There's so much comedy on television. Does that cause comedy in the streets?
-- Dick Cavett
_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
American P.O.W. 10/80 - 10/82
Straight South (Sarasota, FL)
Anonymity Anonymous
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Deborah - Was your child ever in a wwasps program? If not, which one?
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I watched early on, but quickly bored of his "just do it" temper tantrums.
I happened to catch an episode where he paid for a guy to go to a program. If memory serves he was older.
I don't think he would support the abuse that has been described. If he did, we'd have to crash his message board, better yet, crash the audience and confront him. That would be a hoot.
Deborah