Fornits
General Interest => Open Free for All => Topic started by: Anonymous on March 27, 2009, 08:58:48 PM
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I love me some camel lights!!
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eww None.
I recently had a roommate who found it appropriate to smoke cigarettes in my house! lets just say the stench lasted a lot longer then he did.
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Shermans MCD
It's the way american spirits would taste if they ate steak and drank scotch.
Even *I* don't smoke in my house, and I live alone. Except for when Im in the bathroom taking a crap. smoking while shitting is awesome.
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When in the states: american spirits (burns longer, more natural supposedly)
When in europe: benson and hedges (nice taste)
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Sorry! I don't have a death wish, and that is why I don't smoke tobacco. If you smoke cigarettes you are either suicidal, or ignorant to a lethal degree. By the way, I need to know from any smokers. Why do you want to die 30 years early, in a very painful and expensive way that burdens everybody around you? If you want to kill yourself, why not just go jump off a bridge and be done with it? I just don't get it, they should be made illegal. It's too easy for corporations to exploit and profit off of the weak willed.
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I just don't get it, they should be made illegal. It's too easy for corporations to exploit and profit off of the weak willed.
They're just providing a supply for a demand (that will always be constant, legal or not). Do you really think that making something illegal reduces use?
What's your problem with consenting people choosing to harm themselves? Why people do it is completely irrelevant. It's not your choice to make.
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camel filters mutha fucka
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Shermans MCD
It's the way american spirits would taste if they ate steak and drank scotch.
Even *I* don't smoke in my house, and I live alone. Except for when Im in the bathroom taking a crap. smoking while shitting is awesome.
Those are damned good cigarettes! The illiterati refer to them as "Em-See-Dees", but the true Nat Sherman afficianado understands that the brand is actually called "1400s", MCD being the Roman designation for that number, which is the street address of the fine folks at the Nat Sherman company.
I really like Export A, a Canadian brand, they taste good and they come 25 to a pack. There used to be a drug store in SF that sold them cheap as part of a loss leader special they were always running.
Nat Sherman Classics are another fave, and the Nat Sherman Mints are a nice smoke on occasion.
Camels, the original nonfilter, are good, too, and I used to enjoy a filterless Pall Mall every now and then.
My usual smoke, however, is the discount Pall Mall filters--they are cheap and have a high nicotine content. Love me some nicotine, yes I do. Plus, RJ Reynolds sends me coupons every couple of months. I called their 800 # and asked them if I had been getting defective cigarettes, since I have been smoking for a number of years and am still alive. They didn't think that was too funny, but they send me propaganda and coupons every couple of months since then.
I recently tried some Camel Snus pouches that were given to me by a store clerk as part of a promotion, and enjoyed them very much.
I've been known to smoke a pipe, even for tobacco, and a couple of times a year I'll smoke a good cigar.
All this talk about nicotine makes me wanna smoke.........so I will.
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I need to know from any smokers. Why do you want to die 30 years early, in a very painful and expensive way that burdens everybody around you?
Gotta die of sumthin'.
If you want to kill yourself, why not just go jump off a bridge and be done with it?
Because jumping off a bridge won't put me in flavor country.
The illiterati refer to them as "Em-See-Dees", but the true Nat Sherman afficianado understands that the brand is actually called "1400s",
oooo. awesome. did not know that. will now throw that around
I really like Export A, a Canadian brand, they taste good and they come 25 to a pack.
Love love love export As. Havent had them in years. Can find them in almost any convenience store in my hood. (SF) Since tax is going up, I may have to switch to them, since Sherms are quite pricey.
One brand that is not available any more, that I used to smoke in college and miss terribly, are lucky strike filters. You can only find unfiltered nowadays. They discontinued the other kind. Guess it makes sense, since LS's are known for their lack of filters, but I still miss them.
BTW, have you seen those nat sherman.. what the fuck are they called? I think they're called "Fantasia" or some fruity shit like that. All of the cigs in the box are different colored. Aside from the packaging scheme, which is clearly targeted for the black drag queen audience and those who used to be addicted to fruit stripe gum as children.. not sure what else is special about them. But they are hellishly weird.
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How morbidly amusing that people would declare loyalty to a corporation that is killing them, as well as profiting all the way to the grave.
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Because jumping off a bridge won't put me in flavor country.
LoL
Indeed, I don't understand the obsession with surviving to an old age... why? so you can hobble around confused and shitting yourself? or so your children can leave you to die in a smelly old nursing home? or are you more excited to live to see your grandchildren fighting over your life savings?
Naw I'd rather just knock off those last miserable thirty years and enjoy myself.
Just to clarify, I don't smoke cigarettes, but not because I'm against them, I used to, but I've just grown to find the taste and smell repulsive. Guess Ill have to find another way to slowly commit suicide.
One brand that is not available any more, that I used to smoke in college and miss terribly, are lucky strike filters. You can only find unfiltered nowadays. They discontinued the other kind. Guess it makes sense, since LS's are known for their lack of filters, but I still miss them.
YES! I remember the filters! Lucky Strike Filters are the first cigarettes I ever smoked... there's just something nostalgic about that brand now, but I wouldn't dare smoke a non filter, unless I was REALLLLLLY drunk.
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Two old ladies were outside their nursing home, having a smoke when it started to rain. One of the ladies pulled out a condom, cut off the end, put it over her cigarette and continued smoking.
Lady 1: What's that?
Lady 2: A condom. This way my cigarette doesn't get wet.
Lady 1: Where did you get it?
Lady 2: You can get them at any drugstore.
The next day ... Lady 1 hobbles herself into the local drugstore and announces to the pharmacist that she wants a box of condoms. The guy looks at her kind of strangely (she is, after all, over 80 years of age), but politely asks what brand she prefers.
Lady 1: It doesn't matter as long as it fits a Camel.
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Indeed, I don't understand the obsession with surviving to an old age... why? so you can hobble around confused and shitting yourself? or so your children can leave you to die in a smelly old nursing home? or are you more excited to live to see your grandchildren fighting over your life savings?
You say that now, but wait until you are 55 years old. If you take care of yourself you won't be confused and shitting yourself well into your 80's. If you are so against shitting yourself and being confused ( remember that everybody was doing this when they were a baby!), then kill yourself at the first sign your mental state is going downhill. Watching your grandchildren argue over your life savings is worth killing yourself over in a painful way? Really??? How about hiring a good lawyer who draws up a descent will, that will solve the problem.
Do you think smokers find out they have lung cancer, accept responsibility for their decision to smoke, and just go shoot themselves in the woods? NO, of course not. They milk the taxpayer healthcare system for billions to prevent their imminent death a few more months, or even days. It's easy to say this when you are young, but in 20 years, smokers, you might be that person in the hospital bed, hooked up to tubes. You will be dying and your friends won't visit because they don't want to be around their dying friend, and you'll die all by yourself, comforted by the fact you "enjoyed life to it's fullest" (more like financed the good life of the non-smoking corporate owners of cigarette companies!)
Naw I'd rather just knock off those last miserable thirty years and enjoy myself.
Well if you consider inhaling 200 poisonous chemicals "enjoying yourself" then something is definitely wrong with you. If paying a company to poison you, and ultimately kill yourself is "enjoying yourself". then you are insane. If wheezing, coughing up black stuff and blood for decades is your idea of fun, then please don't invite me to any of your party's! If dying a long, slow and painful death in your late 40's or 50's is your idea of enjoyment, well.. you get the idea.
Let's weight the pros and cons
Pros of cigarette smoking
- You look cool (well at least the people who smoke think this, to everyone else you look stupid)
- You want to be anti establishment (school said dont smoke, so I will do it anyways! ya!)
- You really bought into the whole marlboro man cowboy thing
- You are a coffee shop type who wears a beree (sp?) , and smoking is part of your social costume
- You think it helps you stay thin, is your clever alternative to exercise ::)
- It helps you "shit"
Notice I didn't say "the high". That's because you don't get any high from cigareettes. Yeah, maybe on the first couple of ones. But after that, the only reason you are smoking is to keep the uncomfortable withdrawl symptoms from taking effect. That is ADDICTION. Stop claiming you do it for the high, or enjoyment, or any other reason. You. Are. Addicted! Since you are in denial, and I know you dismiss this statement, let me say it again. You are addicted to a product that kills you, and you pay good money to the corporation who designs the product to be more addictive, appealing, and deadly. You are paying someone (although slowly) to poison you, which will end in death.
Ok. Now let's list some of the cons :poison: :poison: :poison: :poison:
- You can't run more than 20 meters without choking up flem
- You stink
- Your teeth look disgusting and your breath smells like a dead rat
- Cancer, heart disease, you know.. all those pesky little things that KILL YOU
- Lung Cancer (pretty much a given)
- Huge medical bills from all your medical problems that taxpayers pick up
(remember how femanon was talking about grandchildren) - well you don't have to worry about that, beacuse you'll die before you ever meet your grandchildren! :beat:
- It costs a lot of money you could spend on better things
- Your ciggarette butts pollute beaches and are gross and can start fires in homes when you fall asleep
- And to restate the obvious _ they will kill you and shave decades off your life __
Oh yeah, you're young and don't care. Live hard and die young! :dose: ::) ::) Come on! could you be any MORE ignorant sounding? life is precious, even if you havent realized it yet. Maybe you wont realize it until the doctor tells you that you have 6 months left to live. well, I pray and hope you don't have to wait that long to figure out how rare the gift of existence is!!!
Yul Bryner - yeah that dude was cool. He was good looking, tan , in shape and always had a sexy cigarette in his hand. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNjunlWUJJI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNjunlWUJJI) he died from lung cancer!
look at this guy, he's certainly "enjoying life!" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRHvZazd4IM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRHvZazd4IM)
The evidence is in :deal: ! If you don't stop living in denial :wall: , and paying people to poison you :flame: , you will end up :poison: !
I seriously wish someone could just give one good reason for smoking.. because the only REAL reason is to stave off the inevitable withdrawl symptoms, which are so uncomfortable people will continue to use a deadly substance even though they KNOW it will kill them. It's not like this is the 1950's and people still didn't know they were deadly. At least they could claim ignorance. You smokers today are willfully suicidal and I just can't get my head around paying someone to poison me by getting me addicted to a product that physically hurts and causes psychological problems to stop using. It doesn't make logical sense at all, but addiction denial is a powerful psychological force, capable of creating arguments that make sense to those making it, yet nobody else.. funny how that works, huh?
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I seriously wish someone could just give one good reason for smoking
Generally, its something to do.
Look doode, lighten up, you can be angry all you want that society has made it look pleasurable and "cool" to smoke cigarettes but what this issue really comes down to is freedom of choice. Everything you just said, everyone knows, its not a mystery and most people don't smoke to look cool... its just a habit of lifestyle, most grow out of it and those that don't pay the ultimate price. In the big scheme of things, the world just has its way of weeding itself out, people die, even young and because of stupid life decisions but that's just the way population circulates itself. If we all made healthy safe decisions for our lives there would just be too many damn people, too many old people on social security and medi-cal so you healthy tax payers can just thank your lucky stars people are dying off instead of needing your tax dollars for 30 more years.
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its just a habit of lifestyle, most grow out of it and those that don't pay the ultimate price. In the big scheme of things, the world just has its way of weeding itself out, people die, even young and because of stupid life decisions but that's just the way population circulates itself. If we all made healthy safe decisions for our lives there would just be too many damn people, too many old people on social security and medi-cal so you healthy tax payers can just thank your lucky stars people are dying off instead of needing your tax dollars for 30 more years.
Wow, that is one of the most morbid, callous things I've ever read... and this is fornits! So you think it's a good thing that millions of people die needless deaths from one of the most addictive and deadly substances avaialble, because there would be too many old people on social security and medical? This argument is.. well.. it.. how else can I put it other than it makes *no sense whatsoever*.
How about if one of your family members dies from lung cancer, you can put "it's just a habit of lifestyle, the world was just recirculating the population" on their tombstone?
BTW-most don't grow out of it, because it's very addictive and difficult to quit. Your earlier argument was so ridiculous I didn't respond, but how about pointing out the obvious fact tobacco related health illness is the biggest expense on the taxpayer health system? That kind of cancels that argument of yours, which was basically imcomprehensible, it just seems like you want to take the opposite stance (even though it's wrong) for the sake of it. Well, that's your right.. but please try to make arguments that make some sense.
.... still waiting for someone to explain why it's a good idea to pay someone for lethal addictive poison you take with regularity to your own detriment.... ::puke::
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Still waiting to see how it's your business how and what somebody else puts in their own body.
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its just a habit of lifestyle, most grow out of it and those that don't pay the ultimate price. In the big scheme of things, the world just has its way of weeding itself out, people die, even young and because of stupid life decisions but that's just the way population circulates itself. If we all made healthy safe decisions for our lives there would just be too many damn people, too many old people on social security and medi-cal so you healthy tax payers can just thank your lucky stars people are dying off instead of needing your tax dollars for 30 more years.
Wow, that is one of the most morbid, callous things I've ever read... and this is fornits! So you think it's a good thing that millions of people die needless deaths from one of the most addictive and deadly substances avaialble, because there would be too many old people on social security and medical? This argument is.. well.. it.. how else can I put it other than it makes *no sense whatsoever*.
How about if one of your family members dies from lung cancer, you can put "it's just a habit of lifestyle, the world was just recirculating the population" on their tombstone?
BTW-most don't grow out of it, because it's very addictive and difficult to quit. Your earlier argument was so ridiculous I didn't respond, but how about pointing out the obvious fact tobacco related health illness is the biggest expense on the taxpayer health system? That kind of cancels that argument of yours, which was basically imcomprehensible, it just seems like you want to take the opposite stance (even though it's wrong) for the sake of it. Well, that's your right.. but please try to make arguments that make some sense.
I agree, that was harsh!
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its just a habit of lifestyle, most grow out of it and those that don't pay the ultimate price. In the big scheme of things, the world just has its way of weeding itself out, people die, even young and because of stupid life decisions but that's just the way population circulates itself. If we all made healthy safe decisions for our lives there would just be too many damn people, too many old people on social security and medi-cal so you healthy tax payers can just thank your lucky stars people are dying off instead of needing your tax dollars for 30 more years.
Wow, that is one of the most morbid, callous things I've ever read... and this is fornits! So you think it's a good thing that millions of people die needless deaths from one of the most addictive and deadly substances avaialble, because there would be too many old people on social security and medical? This argument is.. well.. it.. how else can I put it other than it makes *no sense whatsoever*.
How about if one of your family members dies from lung cancer, you can put "it's just a habit of lifestyle, the world was just recirculating the population" on their tombstone?
BTW-most don't grow out of it, because it's very addictive and difficult to quit. Your earlier argument was so ridiculous I didn't respond, but how about pointing out the obvious fact tobacco related health illness is the biggest expense on the taxpayer health system? That kind of cancels that argument of yours, which was basically imcomprehensible, it just seems like you want to take the opposite stance (even though it's wrong) for the sake of it. Well, that's your right.. but please try to make arguments that make some sense.
.... still waiting for someone to explain why it's a good idea to pay someone for lethal addictive poison you take with regularity to your own detriment.... ::puke::
You fail to realize I don't have a stance on this subject... However I do have a stance on freedom of choice. If people choose to smoke into their later years of life they are pretty much signing a death wish, but that's their choice. I don't smoke and its partially because I agree with what you said but I just have no mind to tell people to stop doing something they choose to do. I can say, don't smoke in my house, in front of me or children but I cannot tell someone to not do something as long as it isnt hurting anyone but themselves.
Now Taxes, thats a completely different story, but considering that our taxes also pay for our politician's hookers, I'm a bit more willing to pay for health care regardless of what the treatment is.
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Still waiting to see how it's your business how and what somebody else puts in their own body.
I am asking one of you smokers to explain why you smoke. What makes it so great, you are willing to die for it?
I think you are addicted to it, and will make non-logical statements based in denial. Still waiting...
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its just a habit of lifestyle, most grow out of it and those that don't pay the ultimate price. In the big scheme of things, the world just has its way of weeding itself out, people die, even young and because of stupid life decisions but that's just the way population circulates itself. If we all made healthy safe decisions for our lives there would just be too many damn people, too many old people on social security and medi-cal so you healthy tax payers can just thank your lucky stars people are dying off instead of needing your tax dollars for 30 more years.
Wow, that is one of the most morbid, callous things I've ever read... and this is fornits! So you think it's a good thing that millions of people die needless deaths from one of the most addictive and deadly substances avaialble, because there would be too many old people on social security and medical? This argument is.. well.. it.. how else can I put it other than it makes *no sense whatsoever*.
How about if one of your family members dies from lung cancer, you can put "it's just a habit of lifestyle, the world was just recirculating the population" on their tombstone?
BTW-most don't grow out of it, because it's very addictive and difficult to quit. Your earlier argument was so ridiculous I didn't respond, but how about pointing out the obvious fact tobacco related health illness is the biggest expense on the taxpayer health system? That kind of cancels that argument of yours, which was basically imcomprehensible, it just seems like you want to take the opposite stance (even though it's wrong) for the sake of it. Well, that's your right.. but please try to make arguments that make some sense.
I agree, that was harsh!
Oh boo hoo. the universe is a cold hearted bitch. People die, and life goes on that is reality. Why is stating the apparent facts harsh? Do you have a hard time accepting that people die? did that hit a nerve? I wouldn't try to offend you on purpose I just have a "big picture" way of looking at things, particularly society, the world and existence. I'm not entirely a fan of deluding reality either... it just is what it is.
There are some things we can change, but the constant in life is that people will always find a way to fuck shit up.
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I think you are addicted to it, and will make non-logical statements based in denial. Still waiting...
And that's why I don't bother answering. Because If I deny it, it's evidence of a problem... a bit like dunking a witch. If the witch denies it, it's evidence she's a witch. No matter what I say, you'll always think me a "witch".
He's an ADDICT. BURN HIM (or forceably "treat" him by stripping her of every single shread of individuality... I can't figure out which is worse. Personally, i'd rather burn than go through that again).
No matter what I say... no matter what reasons I give you, it's evidence of "denial". There is no point making a defense if the verdict has already been arrived at (sort of like the forced confessions in the gulags).
Moral busybody assholes like yourself just want people to admit powerlessness they don't have so you can control them and make yourself feel good... some semblance of purpose in your otherwise meaningless existence (and chances are, you do't even realize it). Life is about risks. I take a risk by smoking. If you try to interfere with my right to do that, you should be thankful if I don't interfere with your right to breathe.
"It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent
moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his
cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our
own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their consciences."---C. S. Lewis
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So you are willing to sacrifice your short term health, and your life in the long term, all because you are unwilling to admit you are addicted to tobacco?
Do you really believe you are NOT addicted to cigarettes? You smoke them everyday, why, because you love the taste?
Nobody wants to forcibly treat you (not possible) or burn you at the stake like a witch. I just find it amazing that seemingly intelligent people are willing to pay good money to a corporation that is killing them, making them unhealthy, and selling them an (very much proven) addictive product.
If you said, yes I know tobacco is addictive and I smoke mainly to stave off the effects of withdrawal, I might believe that. But you haven't even given a reason. "It makes me feel good" is a dumb reason (since it kills you), but at least it's a reason. What's yours?
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Personally, i'd rather burn than go through that again.
OH come on! You would rather be burned alive than go to Benchmark? Puh-fucking-lease, get real.
Besides, didn't you make 75k off of them? That ain't bad... not bad at all.
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Personally, i'd rather burn than go through that again.
OH come on! You would rather be burned alive than go to Benchmark? Puh-fucking-lease, get real.
It wouldn't work the second time, so no, it wouldn't be the same thing. What I meant to imply is that i'd rather burn alive than be subjected to successful thought reform (brainwashing) again.
Besides, didn't you make 75k off of them? That ain't bad... not bad at all.
75k? Where did you get *that* number? (gee.. i wonder) (the real number is a *lot* higher than that)
Have you read the judge's ruling?
And just FYI, most of the money goes to the attorneys who took the case primarly on a contingent fee basis because they were so offended at Benchmark's bullshit "case".
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So how much money are you getting personally?
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Do you really believe you are NOT addicted to cigarettes?
It depends on what you mean by addiction. If you mean physical withdraws... yes. If you mean that those physical withdraws are so bad that I couldn't quit if I truly wanted to (i don't), then, no. Believe it or not, for me the benefits outweigh the risks. Perhaps I should be more concerned about my health, but it's just not my thing. Fuck the health nuts and live life to the fullest is what I say. You gotta die of something... reflect on that.
Nicotine does have positive effects (mild, but positive... like coffee). You should try it sometime.
Nicotine's positive effects:
- stimulant: increases reaction time, increases ability to think quickly and effectively (especially if you have ADHD (http://http://health.msn.com/health-topics/adhd/articlepage.aspx?cp-documentid=100144050)). You should research nicotine and see what positive effects it has. Smoking it is harmful, yes, but there are other ways to consume nicotine (vaporized, inhalers, gum, transdermal, etc...). You have any problem with people using legal drugs to increase their performance? You have a logical reason to that or just a moral busybody reason? You drink coffee? Is that a legal drug that enhances performance? You call the coffee companies the same names because their product causes physical dependence as well?
- social: if you even go to a "smoke pit" (area for smoking in public place or workplace) you meet some of the most interesting people and have the most interesting conversations. You could argue that such social experiences could be had otherwise, but if you work at a workplace, you're not a smoker, and you ask to go out for a smoke break, your boss just might say no. If your boss is a smoker he understands. This also give opportunities to chit-chat and network.
- deterrent: keeps assholes like you away (perhaps this is the best reason of them all). Goodness knows, if you were here i'd be blowing smoke in your face right about now just on principle.
These are just some reasons I smoke. IF you don't like it... well i'll just have to continue to offend you.
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So how much money are you getting personally?
It's discussed in this thread and in the ruling itself:
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=27016 (http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=27016)
The search function works, you know.
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OK so you won 187k, but where in the thread does it say how much of that you get to take home at the end of the day? Someone suggested the lawyers get 30%, so you get about 120k personally? Is that right?
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Do you really believe you are NOT addicted to cigarettes?
It depends on what you mean by addiction. If you mean physical withdraws... yes. If you mean that those physical withdraws are so bad that I couldn't quit if I truly wanted to (i don't), then, no. Believe it or not, for me the benefits outweigh the risks. Perhaps I should be more concerned about my health, but it's just not my thing. Fuck the health nuts and live life to the fullest is what I say. You gotta die of something... reflect on that.
Nicotine does have positive effects (mild, but positive... like coffee). You should try it sometime.
Nicotine's positive effects:
- stimulant: increases reaction time, increases ability to think quickly and effectively (especially if you have ADHD (http://http://health.msn.com/health-topics/adhd/articlepage.aspx?cp-documentid=100144050)). You should research nicotine and see what positive effects it has. Smoking it is harmful, yes, but there are other ways to consume nicotine (vaporized, inhalers, gum, transdermal, etc...). You have any problem with people using legal drugs to increase their performance? You have a logical reason to that or just a moral busybody reason? You drink coffee? Is that a legal drug that enhances performance? You call the coffee companies the same names because their product causes physical dependence as well?
- social: if you even go to a "smoke pit" (area for smoking in public place or workplace) you meet some of the most interesting people and have the most interesting conversations. You could argue that such social experiences could be had otherwise, but if you work at a workplace, you're not a smoker, and you ask to go out for a smoke break, your boss just might say no. If your boss is a smoker he understands. This also give opportunities to chit-chat and network.
- deterrent: keeps assholes like you away (perhaps this is the best reason of them all). Goodness knows, if you were here i'd be blowing smoke in your face right about now just on principle.
These are just some reasons I smoke. IF you don't like it... well i'll just have to continue to offend you.
and he lives in France, not sure who doesn't smoke in that country.
I also agree that the act of going on a smoke break is quite enjoyable... just being out in the open, having a moment to yourself or to chat with your friends is really what I liked about smoking. I've noticed that a lot of people who are smokers are less uptight and I think that's because they are willing to give themselves a few moments in the day just to induldge in something that makes them feel good.
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OK so you won 187k, but where in the thread does it say how much of that you get to take home at the end of the day? Someone suggested the lawyers get 30%, so you get about 120k personally? Is that right?
Read the whole thread, or the whole judgment. I don't like rewriting things. If you're capable of reading, do it.
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Are you guys serious? You think it's worth sacrificing your health ( guess you wont be taking the stairs to the top of the eifel tower) and eventually your life just so you can go outside and "chit chat"?? :eek:
Nicotine does have positive effects (mild, but positive... like coffee). You should try it sometime.
You have to go back a few decades to get anybody on record saying cigarettes have positive effects, way to bring out the retro argument. But I guess you'll respond by saying "well I said nicotine not tobacco, and you can use the patch or inhaler". Ya right, I'm sure lots of people are going outside for a 5 minute nicotine patch break.
The funny thing is ..
mild, but positive... like coffee
Coffee doesn't give you stomach cancer when you drink it. Drinking coffee isn't the leading cause of preventable early death. But what coffee can do is give you the same benefits as you describe as smoking. You can go outside for a coffee break instead of a cigarette break. you can go to a coffee shop and still be part of a social group.
So coffee works for your category of stimulant and social. I don't know about your deterrent category though, maybe you can wear black eyeliner and a trench coat and people will still stay away from you. You aren't offending me by smoking, I just think it's stupid to waste your life for no good reason and curious as to the reasons why and how smokers explain it to themselves. If you know something is addictive and killing you, why continue to use it? Do you not care about your life? Besides, "you gotta die of something", you are choosing one of the most painful and gruesome ways to die. Not to mention shaving decades off your life.. that's a long time, when you only got a few months to live.
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OK so you won 187k, but where in the thread does it say how much of that you get to take home at the end of the day? Someone suggested the lawyers get 30%, so you get about 120k personally? Is that right?
Read the whole thread, or the whole judgment. I don't like rewriting things. If you're capable of reading, do it.
I read the whole thread and the whole judgment. No where did it say exactly how much you are getting paid. Why is it so hard to type it out, it's only a few numbers.?
I mean I'll just assume it's $120,000 until you say otherwise, because from that thread and the link that's the best I could figure out.
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You have to go back a few decades to get anybody on record saying cigarettes have positive effects, way to bring out the retro argument.
That's why I quoted a recent article (there is LOTS of research on this).
http://health.msn.com/health-topics/adh ... =100144050 (http://health.msn.com/health-topics/adhd/articlepage.aspx?cp-documentid=100144050)
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From the article
Although the number of smokers is decreasing, smoking still accounts for roughly 1 in 7 deaths in the United States (1 in 3 between the ages of 35 and 70). And tobacco — particularly when smoked — is highly addictive.
Yet you are arguing of the "benefits" of smoking? really? I think there are better ways of dealing with anxiety, adhd, etc than with smoking cigarettes. I don't see many people walking outside for a nicorette gum chewing break. Notice the age bracket of the deaths starts at 35... stop smoking tonight, it might save your life.
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Besides, "you gotta die of something", you are choosing one of the most painful and gruesome ways to die.
Which assumes if I got terminal cancer I would let the cancer kill me. That's not necessarily so. I'd take the opportunity to do all sorts of reckless things I would otherwise never want to risk... and in those acts, you might say I would live in such a way few people are ever able to do.
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Not to mention shaving decades off your life.. that's a long time, when you only got a few months to live.
A statistical inrease in the likelyhood of cancer is not a guarantee, nor is "decades" exactly accurate, but that's not the point. The point is that it's my choice and really none of your business. If you go around judging everybody else like you have me (and all smokers), don't expect to get a friendly reaction.
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Besides, "you gotta die of something", you are choosing one of the most painful and gruesome ways to die.
Which assumes if I got terminal cancer I would let the cancer kill me. That's not necessarily so. I'd take the opportunity to do all sorts of reckless things I would otherwise never want to risk... and in those acts, you might say I would live in such a way few people are ever able to do.
Ok, now that is an interesting argument.. behold the power of denial!
Apparently, cigarettes are cool because when you get terminal cancer, you will be free of your fear of death and can then go do dare devil, death-defying activities, which (of course) you would never have experienced if you never started smoking, and ultimately terminal cancer.
Now that is one intricate argument, that could only make sense in the mind that created it. Wow.
Why won't you say how much money you got? I really did read that whole thread and ruling, and couldn't find it. What's the big deal with typing a few numbers out ?
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Ok, now that is an interesting argument.. behold the power of denial!
You're just proving my point. No matter what I say, it's the addiction talking according to you. I'm powerles to control myself bla bla bla bla. It couldn't *possibly* be a conscious choice based on a difference in life philosophies and the way we see things. Nope. It's a fictional disease talking.
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Why won't you say how much money you got?
How much I got? I haven't gotten anything yet. But as for how much the judge ordered, it's in the settlement, as is the full agreement with my attorneys specifying exactly what we paid and what our fee arrangement was.
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Not to mention shaving decades off your life.. that's a long time, when you only got a few months to live.
A statistical inrease in the likelyhood of cancer is not a guarantee, nor is "decades" exactly accurate, but that's not the point. The point is that it's my choice and really none of your business. If you go around judging everybody else like you have me (and all smokers), don't expect to get a friendly reaction.
Who said I expected a friendly reaction? it's not like I came up to you, real life psy, in a coffee shop and dropped a stop-smoking pamphlet in front of you, sat down and started lecturing. This is a discussion forum, inside of a thread of which I am very much on topic, all of which takes place in a completely voluntary way. You keep trying to portray yourself as some sort of oppressed individual as a smoker, but that's not very accurate. You say it's none of my business yet you come into a thread about smoking, declare your favorite brand. I pose questions and argument to any smoker in general, YOU answer me, and yet somehow I am getting in your business. It just doesn't pan out.
I'm not sure how I'm "judging you", I think it's common sense that poisoning yourself and paying someone else good money to do so is pretty stupid, and will most likely shorten your life and cause you pain and disease and death.
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Why won't you say how much money you got?
Various reasons which will be revealed in time. What's it to you?
Well you just said to me several times I could find out this information by reading the thread, which you linked and reading the judgment. I did both, and couldn't find it. Now you're saying this information is NOT revealed anywhere, AND you can't tell anyone? Doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
124,600 - I used a calculator this time, is that about right? Why do I want to know? I'm just curious, don't be so paranoid.
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I'm not sure how I'm "judging you"
The whole accusations of addiction and denial bit sort of gave it away.
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Why won't you say how much money you got?
Various reasons which will be revealed in time. What's it to you?
Well you just said to me several times I could find out this information by reading the thread, which you linked and reading the judgment. I did both, and couldn't find it. Now you're saying this information is NOT revealed anywhere, AND you can't tell anyone? Doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
The judgement says that we paid our attorneys 30k dollars for a retainer. That's all we get back. The attorneys get teh rest as it is, (surprise) an award for attorney's fees (wow. i fucking wonder what that could be) Your questions as to how much we have collected out of that judgment are and what our intents are, however, not public for the time being. Why so interested?
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I'm not sure how I'm "judging you"
The whole accusations of addiction and denial bit sort of gave it away.
From your own source
Although the number of smokers is decreasing, smoking still accounts for roughly 1 in 7 deaths in the United States (1 in 3 between the ages of 35 and 70). And tobacco — particularly when smoked — is highly addictive.
If you smoke cigarettes regularly, you are addicted to them. That is a scientific fact. You already admitted if you quit cold turkey, you would suffer through withdrawal symptoms. That means (guess what?), you guessed it, you are addicted to cigarettes.
When someone says they look forward to getting terminal lung cancer, so they can finally fulfill their desires which they are too afraid to do now, as an argument to promote smoking, yeah. That's 100% denial right there. You just listed off trivial reasons as to why it's okay to take a product that is addictive and deadly. If you weren't addicted to cigarettes, you would never be making those arguments... and definitely not the thing about terminal cancer relieving your fear to do exciting things.
That's like a drunk saying drinking is good because the food they serve is good in jail, for when they get arrested for DUI. Doesn't make a lot of sense right? But that's what you sound like right now.
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yet somehow I am getting in your business.
Is there any other way to see this post:
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=27212&start=15#p328872 (http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=27212&start=15#p328872)
You came to your own conclusions beforehand, prompting me to write this post:
I think you are addicted to it, and will make non-logical statements based in denial. Still waiting...
And that's why I don't bother answering. Because If I deny it, it's evidence of a problem... a bit like dunking a witch. If the witch denies it, it's evidence she's a witch. No matter what I say, you'll always think me a "witch".
He's an ADDICT. BURN HIM (or forceably "treat" him by stripping her of every single shread of individuality... I can't figure out which is worse. Personally, i'd rather burn than go through that again).
No matter what I say... no matter what reasons I give you, it's evidence of "denial". There is no point making a defense if the verdict has already been arrived at (sort of like the forced confessions in the gulags).
Moral busybody assholes like yourself just want people to admit powerlessness they don't have so you can control them and make yourself feel good... some semblance of purpose in your otherwise meaningless existence (and chances are, you do't even realize it). Life is about risks. I take a risk by smoking. If you try to interfere with my right to do that, you should be thankful if I don't interfere with your right to breathe.
"It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent
moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his
cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our
own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their consciences."---C. S. Lewis
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Why won't you say how much money you got?
Various reasons which will be revealed in time. What's it to you?
Well you just said to me several times I could find out this information by reading the thread, which you linked and reading the judgment. I did both, and couldn't find it. Now you're saying this information is NOT revealed anywhere, AND you can't tell anyone? Doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
The judgement says that we paid our attorneys 30k dollars for a retainer. That's all we get back. The attorneys get teh rest as it is, (surprise) an award for attorney's fees (wow. i fucking wonder what that could be) Your questions as to how much we have collected out of that judgment are and what our intents are, however, not public for the time being. Why so interested?
Because what other poster on this forum has collected almost $200k from a program they went to? I'm curious how much bring-home money you actually got out of the deal?
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yet somehow I am getting in your business.
Is there any other way to see this post:
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=27212&start=15#p328872 (http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=27212&start=15#p328872)
You came to your own conclusions beforehand, prompting me to write this post:
I think you are addicted to it, and will make non-logical statements based in denial. Still waiting...
I still think that. there is no logical argument as to why smoking is a good idea. The benefits are marginal at best, the cost is your health and maybe eventually even your life. Simple economics, the value of the benefits you listed, compared to the rarity of your only (depending on religion) life, the two are non-comparable. I'm sorry you feel a victim of my "judgment" from that sentence, but that's the way I feel. You keep trying to portray me as trying to harass you, change you, judge you, but that isn't what is happening. You don't have to view every argument through the program lens. I'm pretty sure you called me an" asshole" a few posts back, and said you'd blow smoke in my face if we were talking in person, yet you suggest that I am the judgmental one? Come on, get real.
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I'm not sure how I'm "judging you"
The whole accusations of addiction and denial bit sort of gave it away.
From your own source
Although the number of smokers is decreasing, smoking still accounts for roughly 1 in 7 deaths in the United States (1 in 3 between the ages of 35 and 70). And tobacco — particularly when smoked — is highly addictive.
If you smoke cigarettes regularly, you are addicted to them. That is a scientific fact. You already admitted if you quit cold turkey, you would suffer through withdrawal symptoms. That means (guess what?), you guessed it, you are addicted to cigarettes.
I already discussed the differences between the definitions of addiction. It's an ambiguous term that even the medical establishment avoids.
When someone says they look forward to getting terminal lung cancer,
And I said this where? I never said look forward to. You're distorting my words and seeing what you want. I said there are upsides to even the worst things. Only somebody who sees the world in black and white denies that. There *are* opportunities that arise from terminal illnesses that would otherwise never be possible. I'm not saying I want to get cancer... all I'm saying is if it happens, I'll take the good with the bad and look on the bright side of things, like I try to do with many things in life.
I'm also not very convinced that smoking increases probability to the point where it is a guarantee. There is such a thing as acceptable risk. What is the increased probability of cancer for a half-pack a day smoker compared to a non-smoker? Do the research.
so they can finally fulfill their desires which they are too afraid to do now, as an argument to promote smoking, yeah. That's 100% denial right there.
And where is the science saying that denial is a symptom of addiction? The only folk who believe that crap are stepcraft practitioners.
You just listed off trivial reasons as to why it's okay to take a product that is addictive and deadly. If you weren't addicted to cigarettes, you would never be making those arguments...
But femanon doesn't smoke, and she made similar arguments. Maybe she's a "dry" smoker and needs some "spiritual" healing from the flying spaghetti monster.
That's like a drunk saying drinking is good because the food they serve is good in jail, for when they get arrested for DUI. Doesn't make a lot of sense right? But that's what you sound like right now.
To you, because of your biases, prejudice, and contempt prior to investigation.
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I still think that. there is no logical argument as to why smoking is a good idea.
And you're free to have that opinion, which is why you don't smoke. I disagree, which is why I do. The details, again, are irrelevant. It's a personal choice and no matter how much you disagree, you have no right to tell me what to put in my own body. I *own* my self. I own my body. It's mine, not yours, and not the governments (even on your behalf). At the beginning of this thread, you argued that tobacco shoudl be illegal. Well. Were that the case, I would still smoke on principle and I would do it publicly and encourage others to disobey as well. In France, smoking bans handed down by the EU were treated this way. In Ireland, it was the same thing. Government cannot take away liberty... that's an illusion. People allow government to take away their liberties... that's the reality. A law cannot be enforced if enough people openly disobey. When people are complicit, they're as bad as if they're the oppresors themselves... and moral busybodies can be FAR worse than robber barons.
"It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent
moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his
cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our
own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their consciences."---C. S. Lewis
The benefits are marginal at best, the cost is your health and maybe eventually even your life. Simple economics, the value of the benefits you listed
I could have listed more, and quality of life is not measured with simple economics.
compared to the rarity of your only (depending on religion) life, the two are non-comparable. I'm sorry you feel a victim of my "judgment" from that sentence, but that's the way I feel. You keep trying to portray me as trying to harass you, change you, judge you, but that isn't what is happening. You don't have to view every argument through the program lens. I'm pretty sure you called me an" asshole" a few posts back, and said you'd blow smoke in my face if we were talking in person, yet you suggest that I am the judgmental one? Come on, get real.
Well. You call it like you see it and call me an addict in denial and I'll call it like I see it and call you an asshole. Sorry, but that's the way I feel.
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It's funny. You claim that everyone else is judgemental, but you really need to take a look at yourself. I never said I was part of AA in any way, yet now you seem bent on making me out as some kind of "stepcraft practioner" because I think smoking (which is proven that it kills you) is stupid. OK, if that makes you feel better then think whatever you need to.
It's appears as if you have some need to portray yourself as a victim. Well guess what, you aren't a victim of me. I am not a part of any organization that tried to "brainwash you" (like when you said you'd rather be burned at the stake), I am just someone who thinks smoking is stupid. The arguments to support it are stupid, and the only people who believe them are those who are addicted and in denial. Oh no "addicted" and "denial" are on the no-no word list, which triggers psy's AA-centered paranoia. ::)
But whatever you got to believe, right? No matter what you want to believe you aren't a victim of anybody but your own unwillingness to make a logical choice. Is life important to you? Then you should quit smoking right now. If it's not, and you think getting terminal cancer "has its benefits", then keep on smoking. It won't effect my life, and when you lie dying in a hospital bed I will have long forgotten about this conversation. But maybe then you will remember it, and wish you had heeded the obvious advice (even if it's tainted with [common] naughty words that AA also uses) to quit smoking. Besides, don't you want to live long enough to spend all that cash you got from Benchmark? When do you leave on your extended vacation in the bahamas? :deal:
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And you're free to have that opinion, which is why you don't smoke. I disagree, which is why I do. The details, again, are irrelevant. It's a personal choice and no matter how much you disagree, you have no right to tell me what to put in my own body. I *own* my self. I own my body. It's mine, not yours, and not the governments (even on your behalf). At the beginning of this thread, you argued that tobacco shoudl be illegal. Well. Were that the case, I would still smoke on principle and I would do it publicly and encourage others to disobey as well. In France, smoking bans handed down by the EU were treated this way. In Ireland, it was the same thing. Government cannot take away liberty... that's an illusion. People allow government to take away their liberties... that's the reality. A law cannot be enforced if enough people openly disobey. When people are complicit, they're as bad as if they're the oppresors themselves... and moral busybodies can be FAR worse than robber barons.
"It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent
moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his
cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our
own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their consciences."---C. S. Lewis
Thanks for stating the obvious. Yes you can smoke, and nobody is trying to stop you. I think it's stupid, that's what I posted on this thread. If you feel the need to declare your freedom from my imaginary reach into your life, more power to you.
I could have listed more, and quality of life is not measured with simple economics.
Please, list more "benefits" of smoking cigarettes. It was... education... to hear the "benefit" of terminal cancer has on one's skydiving agenda.
Well. You call it like you see it and call me an addict in denial and I'll call it like I see it and call you an asshole. Sorry, but that's the way I feel.
Well you see the thing is, I don't care if you think I'm an asshole. Please, judge away. It doesn't matter to me. The only relevancy this discussion has to either of our lives, REALLY, is that if you continue to smoke, it can and most likely will kill you. Besides that, none of this really matters. I hope you don't think by smoking you are proving a point against people like me, who are willing to tell you how stupid giving up your health for smoking is. If that reminds you of AA and makes you angry then please stop reading this thread, because the last thing I want to do is implant even more devious denial-induced thoughts into your cigarette addicted mind. "I'll show that step craft practicing asshole, I'll smoke a WHOLE pack today!", really it's not necessary. I truly hope you do quit, because any life is precious.. especially your own. EVEN if you think I'm an ASSHOLE, LIFE is important. SAVE YOURS TODAY. STOP SMOKING.
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Besides, don't you want to live long enough to spend all that cash you got from Benchmark? When do you leave on your extended vacation in the bahamas? :deal:
I wrote above:
The judgement says that we paid our attorneys 30k dollars for a retainer. That's all we get back. The attorneys get the rest as it is, (surprise) an award for attorney's fees (wow. i fucking wonder what that could be) Your questions as to how much we have collected out of that judgment are and what our intents are, however, not public for the time being.
Anyway... I'm done. I've proved my point. You seem to think anybody who denies a problem has a problem and anybody who smokes is sick and in denial. Whatever.
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So you personally get $30,000 out of the $187,000 judgement, is that right?
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Your questions as to how much we have collected out of that judgment are and what our intents are, however, not public for the time being.
This is what is confusing. It says you got 30k back, but then says how much you collected is not being made public. I don't get it, did you get more than just the 30k back or something?
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Your questions as to how much we have collected out of that judgment are and what our intents are, however, not public for the time being.
This is what is confusing. It says you got 30k back, but then says how much you collected is not being made public. I don't get it, did you get more than just the 30k back or something?
Look. I'm sorry, but I just can't talk about this particular subject in more depth at the moment. I will elaborate in time and things will be made clear.
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You seem to think anybody who denies a problem has a problem and anybody who smokes is sick and in denial. Whatever.
Addicted, and in denial. Sick? Well... yes, if they keep smoking.
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If I may be welcomed to mediate here, I think the two sides of this argument are based on unrelated points.
Guest or multiple guests, Want to know why people choose to smoke despite overwhelming evidence that smoking cigarettes can lead to illness and death. This is not necessarily a logical question, because the fact is people don't smoke because the benefits outweigh the risks, simply put, they enjoy taking that risk. The point that smoking causes an addiction is really quite relative, because realistically if a person wants to stop smoking, they can. These people choose to smoke and it is their right to make that choice. The fact that that choice doesn't make sense to you is valid, but because the argument is to smoke or not to smoke it becomes an issue of choice, not reasoning.
I don't think that Psy is in denial about how smoking is hazardous, however he reserves the right to do as he pleases as long as he does so without hurting anyone else. His point is on his freedom of choice and that people who cling to the anti-smoking campaign exert a pushy judgmental attitude about other peoples personal choices. Its really an underlying issue, and we could be substituting any other substance or risque act as the subject matter here but it all boils down to the fact people tend to get pissed off when people tell them to stop doing something that is their personal choice to do so.
For instance, if i wanted to go get "Shitting Dick Nipples" tattooed to my face I'm sure you would have many reasons as to why that isnt a good idea, but it is simply not your business to tell me what I should and shouldn't do. Maybe my lifestyle is different from yours and while you would never get "Shitting Dick Nipples" Tattooed to your face, (for obvious reasons) The fact that I would be willing to take that risk is my choice and mine alone. Just the same, if you are a male I'm sure you probably look at porn, If I stepped in and told you how horrible the porn industry is and how immoral and gross it is to be looking at that don't you think I would be crossing the line by judging you and your personal choices?
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Here's a great discussion, over 500 posts about smoking or not smoking... rights, laws passed etc...
http://www.topix.net/forum/source/wish/ ... QLC8RM6H6Q (http://www.topix.net/forum/source/wish/TFNHKIRQLC8RM6H6Q)
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You don't have to view every argument through the program lens.
Not to point the finger at Psy per se, but I see this approach to discussion as detrimental; it is better to be objective.
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its just a habit of lifestyle, most grow out of it and those that don't pay the ultimate price. In the big scheme of things, the world just has its way of weeding itself out, people die, even young and because of stupid life decisions but that's just the way population circulates itself. If we all made healthy safe decisions for our lives there would just be too many damn people, too many old people on social security and medi-cal so you healthy tax payers can just thank your lucky stars people are dying off instead of needing your tax dollars for 30 more years.
Wow, that is one of the most morbid, callous things I've ever read... and this is fornits! So you think it's a good thing that millions of people die needless deaths from one of the most addictive and deadly substances avaialble, because there would be too many old people on social security and medical? This argument is.. well.. it.. how else can I put it other than it makes *no sense whatsoever*.
How about if one of your family members dies from lung cancer, you can put "it's just a habit of lifestyle, the world was just recirculating the population" on their tombstone?
BTW-most don't grow out of it, because it's very addictive and difficult to quit. Your earlier argument was so ridiculous I didn't respond, but how about pointing out the obvious fact tobacco related health illness is the biggest expense on the taxpayer health system? That kind of cancels that argument of yours, which was basically imcomprehensible, it just seems like you want to take the opposite stance (even though it's wrong) for the sake of it. Well, that's your right.. but please try to make arguments that make some sense.
I agree, that was harsh!
Oh boo hoo. the universe is a cold hearted bitch. People die, and life goes on that is reality. Why is stating the apparent facts harsh? Do you have a hard time accepting that people die? did that hit a nerve? I wouldn't try to offend you on purpose I just have a "big picture" way of looking at things, particularly society, the world and existence. I'm not entirely a fan of deluding reality either... it just is what it is.
There are some things we can change, but the constant in life is that people will always find a way to fuck shit up.
Oh boo schmoo, yes I know. You're preaching to the choir, you don't have to tell me about death, I'm from fucking Baltimore. :poison: :rofl:
Yes, who cares, just let them die, you say. Oh no, that statement isn't harsh at all! Your outlook seems defeatist to me, not to mention kind of cold and fucked up....existentialist, you could say....?
No nerves to strike, and I'm not here to "get offended" (sheesh) or to judge you (hell, I've been there too) just an observation is all...
If people wanna smoke, fine. I have no prob with it, but I'll tell them I think it's stupid if I care about them. Then they can go and fuckin' well smoke til they drop if they want, it's on them!
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Marlboro 27's
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hackysack
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Here's a great discussion, over 500 posts about smoking or not smoking... rights, laws passed etc...
http://www.topix.net/forum/source/wish/ ... QLC8RM6H6Q (http://www.topix.net/forum/source/wish/TFNHKIRQLC8RM6H6Q)
good thread
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I agree, that was harsh!
There are some things we can change, but the constant in life is that people will always find a way to fuck shit up.
Oh boo schmoo, yes I know. You're preaching to the choir, you don't have to tell me about death, I'm from fucking Baltimore. :poison: :rofl:
Yes, who cares, just let them die, you say. Oh no, that statement isn't harsh at all! Your outlook seems defeatist to me, not to mention kind of cold and fucked up....existentialist, you could say....?
No nerves to strike, and I'm not here to "get offended" (sheesh) or to judge you (hell, I've been there too) just an observation is all...
If people wanna smoke, fine. I have no prob with it, but I'll tell them I think it's stupid if I care about them. Then they can go and fuckin' well smoke til they drop if they want, it's on them!
Agreed.
Heres the thing tho, its not that I don't care for and have empathy for people, Its just those who choose to ingest chemicals that can very well make you ill and die, are (IMHO) in most ways, choosing to end their lives early. I'm not going to get emotional about the masses of people who choose to make themselves sick, just the same as I don't feel sorry for alcoholics or drug addicts if they choose that for their lives. Personally I have had many of my friends (and family) choose to fuck up their lives with drugs and there wasn't anything I could do to help them until they really didn't want to do it anymore. I think thats probably where this "harsh" mind-state comes from. I do care, believe me, one time I held my friend hostage (only kinda, and yes she asked me to) to get her detoxed off Heroin but the second she was clean and stable and choose to go back, I stopped trying to convince her of what she already knows.
So in a global since it is really difficult for me to give a shit about what someone is doing halfway around the world, even if it is slowly killing themselves. Think of the insane amount of stupid effin people in this world, do you think its necessary to have a bleeding heart for every dumbass that smoked themselves to the grave?... as much as I'd love to be the mother teresa type I'm really just not. I'm pretty much anti-allthatwarmandfuzzyfeelgoodshit. The world is just the way it is, there is A LOT of fucked up shit out there, and maybe I'm just desensitized but I just figure there are more important issues to worry about then fighting an industry where consenting adults are indulging in a substance they are aware onsets early death... just not a soft spot for me.
But if we were talking about whole cities of innocent civilians being bombed, children being sold as sex slaves or starving to death or American families being used and abused by the troubled teen industry, thats shit thats worth caring about. You know, as much as its weird for me to even say, the serenity prayer does have a point, learn to accept the things you cannot change, and fight to change the things you can. I just draw my line at freedom of choice.
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But if we were talking about whole cities of innocent civilians being bombed, children being sold as sex slaves or starving to death or American families being used and abused by the troubled teen industry, thats shit thats worth caring about. You know, as much as its weird for me to even say, the serenity prayer does have a point, learn to accept the things you cannot change, and fight to change the things you can. I just draw my line at freedom of choice.
I would imagine that you care about the babies of woman who smoke when pregnant, since "they are innocent"?
I think any unnecessary death is a tragedy, no matter what the cause, whether it's war, crime, poverty or even yes cigarettes.
Here are some facts that might put this problem into perspective:
* Around 5.4 million deaths a year are caused by tobacco worldwide
* Smoking is set to kill 6.5 million people in 2015 and 8.3 million humans in 2030, with the biggest rise in low-and middle-income countries.
* Every 6.5 seconds a current or former smoker dies, according to the World Health Organization (WHO).
* An estimated 1.3 billion people are smokers worldwide (WHO).
* Over 443,000 Americans (over 18 percent of all deaths) die because of smoking each year. Secondhand smoke kills about 50,000 of them.
* 1.2 million people in China die because of smoking each year. That's 2,000 people a day.
* Tobacco use will kill 1 billion people in the 21st century if current smoking trends continue.
If secondhand smoke kills 50k people in the US alone each year, then it's not really just the smokers problem, now is it? More people died from smoking cigarettes (100 million) in the 20th century than died from all the wars combined. That includes WW1 WW2 and all the other smaller wars, COMBINED.
This isn't about choice, it's about money. Human beings are biological creatures like any other animal living on this planet. Some chemicals are VERY addictive, and we will continue to take them to our own detriment.
Corporations are standing in line to make BILLIONS per year by selling these deadly chemicals to people. They work hard to make it MORE addictive, MORE deadly, and get people hooked younger and for longer. They use chemistry to amke their cigarettes worse for people, as long as it keeps them smoking longer. All they care about is money. They market to kids, and try to convince people smoking is cool and not that bad for you.
More people die from smoking EACH YEAR than Jewish people did in the holocaust. So that is a holocaust EVERY year, but we are supposed to just give up and say "oh well it's a personal choice". NO! It's not a personal choice, it's a carefully planned conspiracy to make TRILLIONS of dollars worldwide of the suffering and deaths of ordinary people. People want to smoke because it's addictive and part of our social culture. But this can change, and anyone with a rational mind should be working on CHANGING our culture so it is no longer acceptable to run a corporation that is bent on killing people for profit. That's all this is about, a corporate holocaust! A sick and twisted situation in which the victims actually pay their killer. That would be like the Jews paying the Germans for a daily supply of Zyklon B for 20 years, and then they all die off. Huh, if only Hitler had thought of that? You got to admit. It's clever, devious and downright evil.
And PLEASE. Don't make the communist argument that "it's better for the economy and government if people die", that is just so ignorant and evil it's not even funny and nobody should be making that argument. There is plenty of food, and supplies and energy to support the world's population. Earth could support 100 billion humans, especially as we get more efficient in our science and agriculture. Nobody "needs to die" for a stupid reason like smoking cigarettes. What a waste of human life, all because of an addictive chemical that 20th century corporations have used as their own personal gold mine. If the native americans only knew a few hundred years ago what would happen when they traded their native tobacco plant to europeans.. tobacco must be their karmic revenge on the rest of the world.
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A corporate holocaust? Nobody is taking people away and shoving them in "smoking chambers" to kill them (would take too fuckin long anyway).
Just a tip: you can easily lose an argument by overstating or exaggerating your case.
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A corporate holocaust? Nobody is taking people away and shoving them in "smoking chambers" to kill them (would take too fuckin long anyway).
Just a tip: you can easily lose an argument by overstating or exaggerating your case.
Ugh.. no matter what I say I "can't lose an argument" on the merits of smoking. Take a look at those statistics again, and try to claim that there is a benefit to smoking. You know you're wrong, and yet you continue to smoke anyways. So either you don't care about your life, you're addicted and in denial, or you're just plain stupid. Care to elaborate on which it is?
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50000 people dying by second hand smoke per year, for example? You know how that number was arrived at?
Penn and teller did an episode on it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AjXwSJtxGc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AjXwSJtxGc)
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The full episode is here:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xr9wa_ ... hit_family (http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xr9wa_104-second-hand-smoke-baby-bullshit_family)
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Using a bullet or a rope is one thing, there is no one who needs to pick up the tab except for burial costs. But cancer is very expensive and the majority of people smoking and dying are living at the bottom end of the economic and educational scale. That is why education on the subject has failed and also why the rest of society has to support these people for years before they finally pass away.
One solution is to stick another $2.00 tax per pack and put this money towards medical and burial costs. This would alleviate the burden from the non-smokers and redirect a portion of the welfare monies back into the system. Every time I see one of those people walking around with tubes coming from their noses or a tank of oxygen I wish I was carrying a pair of scissors. Also smokers are a selfish breed and are often the loudest people in the emergency room wondering why the wait is so long. Maybe RJ Reynolds can lace the smokes with something that kills the people more quickly or in a way that results in a less burden on society.
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090329/ap_ ... obacco_tax (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090329/ap_on_go_ot/tobacco_tax)
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Ugh.. no matter what I say I "can't lose an argument" on the merits of [insert unwanted behavior here]. Take a look at those statistics again, and try to claim that there is a benefit to [insert unwanted behavior here]. You know you're wrong, and yet you continue to [insert unwanted behavior here] anyways. So either you don't care about your life, you're addicted and in denial, or you're just plain stupid. Care to elaborate on which it is?
Take a look at the statistics and try to claim there is a benefit to McDonald's hamburgers. Or Taco Bell. Or Gambling. Or sex. You know you're wrong, and yet you continue to eat anyways. So either you don't care about your life, you're addicted and in denial, or you're just plain stupid. Care to elaborate on which it is?
So, who decides the line where we start outlawing behaviors?
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How about this... instead of blaming people for their choices, fight the industry. You simply cannot project your values on someone else's personal choices. You can educate, you can express your fear of illness and death but you can't make someone stop doing something they enjoy doing.
I think its funny that you assume I have a defeatist outlook, because most people would call me an idealist. And just so you know in an idealistic society I think tobacco should be made safe to be ingested, not outlawed. The fact that people find all sorts of ways to die is just the reality in life and no matter how many laws you pass or judgments you make against people who do things you don't approve of, people will continue to die. Am I supposed to be sentimental about death when death has been part of life since the beginning. You know back in the day people would regularly die of the common cold, the flu and infection. Due to medical advancements we have been able to drastically improve the average lifespan of humans. However despite our best efforts, death will find a way to satisfy its quota, that's just the way of the world, I see no sense in getting sentimental about it. Unless of course someone close to you is dieing, then of course it is appropriate to care. If Tobacco is taking out millions a year there has got to be a reason for this... and honestly you are crazy if you think our economy, society and population could handle a few million more people living into their nineties. That would absolutely ensure that there would be no resources, social security, property, jobs (and the list could go on) for any of us let alone our future generations. As it is we are pushing the limit, and considering our economic crisis as it is I don't think decreasing population is a bad thing at any rate.
The biggest difference between your argument and those of people who choose to smoke is that they are reserving the right to take the risk in dieing and you seem to be fixated on the reasoning they may have for this. This argument has been had many a time over many a subjects and it will always boil down to freedom of choice. For instance, we could have the same argument about gay/straight sexuality.... you might feel that being gay would have no appeal or benefit for you, but its not right for you to judge people who do enjoy being gay.
You just can't tell any of these people not to do what they choose to do plain and simple, they choose to smoke, and I choose not to care.
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Holy fuck. This thread has dragged on for less than a day and is already up to five pages? This is worse than an AA thread.
The anti-smoking stooge sounds like one of those really annoying truth.org people. Fucking self-serving, self-righteous, michael moore worshipping hippies. Go back to Berkeley, bohemian pig-dog. I flick hot ash in your general direction.
As for why I smoke: I smoke to cause as much damage to myself and those around me. It brings me joy. bwa haha. I will destroy the entire world with my habit. Watch out Iraq, watch out North Korea, watch out Pakistan, watch out San Francisco MUNI bus drivers (lazy union bitches). I'm coming for all of you with a pack of fags. Then I will commit suicide by giving myself cancer and emphysema, and make the american taxpayer foot the bill for my radiation treatment, only so I can die the day my course of chemo has ended... simply out of spite.
Fuck you all, cunt-bubbles.
So anyway, doesn't anyone else want to talk about what they smoke?
Id love me a good cigar right about now. If only I could blow the smoke into a premature baby's face.
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So anyway, doesn't anyone else want to talk about what they smoke?
Isn't that what the "I just" thread is for?
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Femanon fatal wrote:
You just can't tell any of these people not to do what they choose to do plain and simple, they choose to smoke, and I choose not to care.
It really doesnt bother me either way except I dont want to pay for it. Obama has a different idea, he is taxing the smokes and putting the tax money towards kids health and prevention programs. Then when nationalized health is put into place the ones who are bent on killing themselves will get little or no coverage or placed on such a long waiting list that they die before any quick intervention could be useful (like in Europe). There will be no one to sue anymore because they will be in control of their own oversight (like todays programs).
If they just raised the tax another $2.00 and put the money towards drive thru Kemo and disposable oxygen devises so that we can keep the hospital beds freed up for the sick people and those who will contribute back to society upon leaving, I will be happy and keep my trap shut. Second hand smoke doesnt bother me personally, I kind of like the smell.
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I think its possible with the proper advancements for cigarettes to be made with non toxic ingredients, rendering cigarette smoke to not be physically addictive, or cause any unreasonable risk of health problems. It has only been in the last decade that cigarettes have been become toxic. Part of the existence of "smokers" is that it is simply a cultural pastime, just like with alcohol, hence the age old saying "drink and be merry" we are all aware of the social and health problems associated with consumption of alcoholic beverages yet intoxicating ourselves has been a constant in society for ages! I think prohibition is simply the wrong approach to the realization that an addiction to these substances can cause harm to the body. The people's choices shouldn't be in question (because really these people are only seeking happiness) its the products themselves and how addictive and unhealthy properties within these substances should be erraticated. Preventive measures within society need to be taken to ensure addiction is medically treatable, and not punishable and avoided at all costs, My main suggestion for this problem is a national health-care system so that people can be properly medicated instead of feeding their addiction in a life of crime. There also needs to be proper drug education. Moderation is a very important lesson that people need to obide by early on in order to effectively avoid becoming physically addicted to substances. But this is just all things a scared shit-less society would fight, because its more important to separate everything into "wrong" and "right" in order to justify criminalizing normal "sinful" human behavior. I just figure that too much of the tax payers money goes toward fighting human nature instead of finding solutions to our society's problems. Its like... throwing the baby out with the bath water. too many people are just afraid that they are getting older and the world is still not what the bible tells you its supposed to be. I'm just so sick of this stubborn agenda, so afraid to take the risks humans need to evolve. but there I go... thinking about the bigger picture again.
What about if they legalize marijuana... what if the stores started selling marijuana cigarettes? Do you know how many people would be harping about that... not to mention sending their kids to programs for acquiring any. But the fact that humans have been partaking in the same rituals for centuries, it just makes no sense that these things would be so bad now a days. Ill be the first one to recognize that drugs, and problems related to alcohol and other mind altering substances have spiked in the last 50 years but we cant just assume its because its wrong to do.... its because it has been criminalized, the topic censored and the fear of addiction over exploited, benefiting only to the opportunistic and sometimes criminally inclined "drug dealers". Put that shit on the market, study it, regulate it, and see how it would go. Advance growth in the industry and promote change in society's outlook and preparation for legal drug usage and you would have very few mentionable problems with "drug use" and those that CHOOSE to partake in them. There is nothing bad about weed, or alcohol or many other substances if used in a responsible manner, the problem is people choose to over indulge and through their own decision making create problems for themselves. That's when and only then do drugs become a problem. I tend to think its possible to make enough social and medical advances that these problems can be prevented, drug use can be regulated and the crime and health issues that destroyed the lives of millions of people can be drastically reduced.
But I'm sure they'd all rather sit around and point the finger, judge and condemn anyone who doesn't decide to completely abstain out of fear, basically who doesn't practice a prudent, "christian" way of life. I'm more inclined to think that's the real agenda here.
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The government is being cautioned not to over tax cigarettes due to the present economic situation. Smokers are presently costing the united states $96 Billion a year in direct healthcare costs and an additional $97 Billion in lost productivity according to the CDC. This has always been a driving force to raise taxes on smokers in a attempt to get them to quit. But taxation has reached a point where people are starting to quit and younger people are not taking it up as quickly as they use to. What the reports have left out of their studies is that they have found that smokers die 10 – 15 years earlier than nonsmokers therefore saving the country money in Medicare, Social Security, private pensions and other programs.
Vanderbilt University economist Kip Viscusi studied the net costs of smoking-related spending and savings and found that for every pack of cigarettes smoked, the country reaps a net cost savings of 32 cents.
So I think we should start seeing the taxation on cigarettes leveling out so as to not dissuade too many people from quitting. Smokers are not the burden on society that people think.