Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Anonymous on March 22, 2009, 08:19:45 PM
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Have you ever seen those TV shows where a family member of a murder victim will go inside of a jail and meet the killer? Then the killer apologizes and everybody lives happily ever after.
I was thinking maybe it's time something like that happen with program abuse victims and their abusers. If the victims of abuse could sit down with their abusers face to face and tell them the effect of the abuse inflicted, it might help the victim go on with their life easier.
I would be willing to choreograph this, and videotape it. I would contact your abusers for you under false pretense, and get them to sit down for an "interview", then you will be the interviewer. Security will be provided a room away, if anything goes wrong.
I am hoping to sell the video as a pilot episode to a new reality series based on victims of abuse confronting their abusers.
I will be posting in the future my real identity and contact information, so if you are interested in the mean time you can start thinking about who you would like to confront and any contact info you have for them would help too.
Let's get to work!
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Yes, I would be interested in doing such a thing... but I don't know if you understand that our abusers would not be apologetic, they would probably tell us that the abuse is what we deserved... In that case they will probably be the ones needing the security.
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I'd like to sit down and have a talk with Art Barker. I wouldn't want it to be a public affair, live in front of a tv viewing audience. But that's probably what it would take to draw him out. But he's a dotting old man now anyway. I would have wanted to get some answers out of him when he was lucid enough to give them.
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I would be willing to choreograph this, and videotape it.
What, with witnesses?!
Security will be provided a room away, if anything goes wrong.
They wouldn't be able to get in the door fast enough.
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:roflmao:
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There are so many boogiemen in my life. I'd have to think they would all just have to blow there heads off by themselves when they see I don't crack under their pressure. I love to fck them over after they've had their two cents in my face at the veteran's administraition. I mean c'mon Carl Jung give up I'm alost 50 years old and you still haven't cured your sane man for all of the rest of you, in what over 30 years of chemotherapy? Give it up shrinks and aliens! You're not saying I'm representing the whole population of this planet, (which I don't)and your telling me, "it's nothing personal. we just don't like your people". PEOPLE! MY PEOPLE? I DON'T HAVE A FCKING FRIEND IN THE WORLD! I mean, I got to put up with the FCC and all their brainwashed little talk show freaks. I don't even listen to them all anymore. I learned to boycott corperate crime radio and television and stay strickly with an uncontrolled mass media device called MSN TV 2. There I've a private community of assholes just like the ones that the aliens hate and these are my people? No I am appalled by my boogiemen and women. They can laugh their democratic asses off til doomsday and I'll just keep bearing my cross and avoiding their hit-men. Eventually it all ends with one missing eyeball and maybe a slaughter, but that's so far away. I've got worse things to get through every day than my three minutes of bullet-filled assination . That's what you get for being "The Captain." I wouldn't even shed tear either. I'll be better off. All the people that I leave in the wake of their own suicides while I walk away unhurt and they have still the threat of a "chariots of fire" attack on their asses, and they want to kill me? Go ahead. Make my day. But please at least let me see you suffer for awhile longer? You see they don't understand the "problem with pain"yet. Either way you suffer. GROW UP BOOGEYMEN!
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If any of you druggies would like to confront ME, your guru, the person in a great way responsible for bestowing on you the GIFT OF AWARENESS and SOBRIETY, you rotten scumbags can fucking well do it RIGHT HERE!!! :flame: :flame:
I'll be glad to deal with you; you know the program saved your life!!
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Like Ginger, I wouldn't really be as interested in confrontation than answers.
I was relatively "close" (for lack of a better term) with one of the wasserman daughters. She was my family head several times, she ran/supported in several of my propheets. I really would love to sit with her and ask her about her old man, what his story was, how she got involved, what her relationship was like with him, if she ever visited him at synanon (her mom had custody). stuff like that.
cedu was definitely a family business. ::puke::
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i would like to sit down with the staff at both SCL and TB just to ask to see their credentials. and what back ground they have other than the schools with working with children. also would like to ask about their background checks as well as medical training, both mental and physical. i would let the lack of training speak for itself into why they do such a shitty job of what they call "helping troubled youth".
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i would shoot them
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i already did confront one of my abusers....well....technically not MY abuser but someone i saw abusing a number of other people in the program i was in.
he was on vacation with his family in my home city. i walked right by him and he did not recognize me. i yelled his name when he was a few yards away, he turned around, and i charged him. i tackled him and put his head through the driver's side window of an old caddy that was parked on the street, knocked out one of his buck teeth, kicked him in the balls a few times, then i gave him a quick talking to and ran off. never got caught. his wife was just standing there in shock and his 8 year old kid was asking his mommy "why is daddy being disciplined?" i shit you not.
what really makes me laugh is fools from utah who dont have the street smarts to stay in the right neighborhoods when visiting new york. if i caught the guy in midtown i couldn't have done anything. but the idiot brought his wife and kids to jamaica in queens, which despite it's nice & cheap mall is a high-crime area where if something happens to you the cops just roll their eyes and tell you to move on. when a tourist asks someone where to go to get cheap clothes in NY, and the person answering the question doesnt like tourists, they say go to the mall in jamaica. i guess thats karma.
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The internet tough guy act you all put on shows you truly weak you are. Just a bunch of pansies whining anonymously online to nobody who listens and/or cares.
You would all be too scared to meet with anyone who "abused" you. :rofl: If you are waiting for some anonymous to hook you up with the people you need to confront, you'll never do it, because you would of done it already on your own.
The answers you are all waiting for have been staring you in the face for decades. Your family didn't like you/had problems with you, they asked for help, and you were probably too stupid to understand this and continued to throw tantrums like a two year old well into adulthood.
You can keep throwing tantrums (online or otherwise) and hoping that your life will change around suddenly, or maybe you will finally take a look at yourself and see what everyone around you has always known.
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The internet tough guy act you all put on shows you truly weak you are. Just a bunch of pansies whining anonymously online to nobody who listens and/or cares.
You would all be too scared to meet with anyone who "abused" you. :rofl: If you are waiting for some anonymous to hook you up with the people you need to confront, you'll never do it, because you would of done it already on your own.
The answers you are all waiting for have been staring you in the face for decades. Your family didn't like you/had problems with you, they asked for help, and you were probably too stupid to understand this and continued to throw tantrums like a two year old well into adulthood.
You can keep throwing tantrums (online or otherwise) and hoping that your life will change around suddenly, or maybe you will finally take a look at yourself and see what everyone around you has always known.
Or I could go to Miller Newton's church, disrupt a service, and let him know what I think of him and his disgusting wife.
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Seriously, being a resident "auntie" here, I worry that you might risk further trauma. I'm guessing that the reaction you might hope for (they are ashamed, remorseful) isn't likely to happen, and instead you might have further abuse heaped on you. I just don't want anyone to get hurt (more).
Sounds like an interesting project, though, realTV. (Anything to push "The Cleaner" and "Intervention" off the air!)
Auntie Em
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I did once confront a man who abused me in High Impact... granted I was still in the program but it was a different setting (the CBS facility) I asked him why he did those things to us and if he thought we really deserved such harsh punishment. He told me that it wasn't weather we deserved it or not, it was a learning experience and that is what we needed to go through in order to learn respect. I also told Luke (the new administrator of CBS when I got back) about what happened to me in High Impact and I cant exactly remember what he said, but I think it had something to do with the ends justifies the means.
What I just can't fathom is the lack of humanity in these people, they really believe that children need to be abused in order to learn to behave. I understand that some cultures and religions bring up their children in strict households but I can't imagine that they would ever be tackled, tortured and sat on for simply not following directions.... that's why the actions of these people are getting swept under the rug with this age old "Spare the rod, spoil the child" none sense. There is just such a difference between what these people say they do and what they actually do. The excuses these people made to "punish" the students is nothing short of criminal child abuse... there was no spanking, yelling or grounding, this was full blown torture.
I don't understand how that can be okay in anyone's mind, weather the ends justifies the means or not its still wrong.
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being a resident "auntie" here
::puke::
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A little harsh I would say. They are boarding schools and programs and for the first time in many of these kids lives they are held accountable for their actions and it seems abusive to them because this is a first for them. The schools have to make up for and turn around 15 or more years of a lax life in a very short time, so there isn’t much time for laying around and empowering laziness. The environment is extremely structured and when you come from an extremely “unstructured” home, cleaning their room and common hallways, helping in the kitchen, doing homework, writing in their journal, attending meetings on time, dressing appropriately, brushing their teeth, being respectful to others, writing letters home, getting up early, going to school every day etc. will be considered abusive.
Many would not want to face their abusers because they know they needed the kick in the butt that came to them and they are better people for it.. bitter because they were separated from their family? Maybe.. but whose fault was that? Why didn’t family life work out for them? It wasn’t the programs fault. Much of the anger is do to bad choices that were made early on and local options to correct them were unsuccessful. Many of the kids had plenty of warning and chances before a program became an option. Maybe the parents shoulder some of the blame but the vast majority of it lies with the kids refusal to work within the families rules and structure.
When reading here on fornits the readers need to understand that many of these kids never had structure in their lives so their definition of abuse is distorted a bit. If there really were hundreds of thousands of kids abused by this system no one would need a study to determine there was a problem. The psychiatric community would be overwhelmed and the cause would be easily determined and they would be obligated to contact the authorities themselves. This has clearly not happened. This is a great forum for people to get together but I would not get too hung up on the claims of torture, kidnapping, shackling, rape, isolation and abuse that many claim to occur in the local Gulags. If any of this actually happened, people magazine would pay them a fortune for their story and I am sure there are a few people who could use a few hundred grand here on fornits.
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You would all be too scared to meet with anyone who "abused" you.
I sure as all fucking hell can't argue with that. I can't speak for anyone else, but I certainly have no desire to meet anyone who worked there. (aside from the staff who were decent.) Especially not if it's a confrontation. Not a big fan of it, and try to refrain from inviting it into my life, thank you. I run into it enough.
Fuck, man, I don't even know if I would want to be exchanging emails. It's weird enough with people from my peer group. Normally consists of a "hi, saw you on classmates, how are you doing? Here's what's up with me." The end. And that's how I prefer it.
However, I still maintain that it would certainly be interesting to have those questions about Mel Wasserman answered, although I have a feeling it would certainly be an uncomfortable conversation, especially were I to have it with Stacy.
But, if I couldn't get out of it, and the choices are confrontation or interview.. well, the answer is obvious. And really, she's the only staff I'd like to get answers from, anyway, since she is the daughter of the guy who started everything.
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Post above TAC gets 5/10 for effort.
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The environment is extremely structured and when you come from an extremely “unstructured” home, cleaning their room and common hallways, helping in the kitchen, doing homework, writing in their journal, attending meetings on time, dressing appropriately, brushing their teeth, being respectful to others, writing letters home, getting up early, going to school every day etc. will be considered abusive.
I don't understand why you would assume that we would view these things to be abusive, I can tell you are trying to make a point that we somehow (and many years later) view the "structure" of the program the problem but the reality is you are using a gross exaggeration to attempt to discredit our ability to identify abuse. You are wrong, we know quite well that it is illegal and immoral to physically assault children in the name of "discipline", especially when they are not a danger to themselves or others. We have the right to speak out a it doesn't have anything to do with teenage rebellion, we do this so that the programs will shape up and not let these things happen again. You may be involved with a school that doesn't torture children, but the absence of abuse in one program doesn't discount the presence of abuse in others, particularly those that we choose to speak out about. The fact that you are hell bent on discrediting us speaks volumes of your character. The fact that you intend to be blind to the past mistakes of the industry you support today is evidence that program supporters are well willing to live comfortably in denial, and that loyalty to your cult is more important than morality.
When reading here on fornits the readers need to understand that many of these kids never had structure in their lives so their definition of abuse is distorted a bit. If there really were hundreds of thousands of kids abused by this system no one would need a study to determine there was a problem.
I don't think my view of my experience is distorted at all, in fact its quite vivid. I know that I was abused and anyone else who has taken the time to read my testimony or talk to me about my experience agrees that what happened to me and the other students in High Impact (and CBS) was abuse, and more appropriately named torture. These are not exaggerations, this is what I lived through, and as much as I hate to give you the satisfaction, it really pisses me off that you people are so FUCKING MALICIOUS that you get your kicks just calling us all liars. You know damn right we have reason to be speaking out and the fact that you refuse to even consider our personal experience before you discredit us all is only proof that you are a brainless cult member.
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People who abuse others will often attempt to occlude their own minds from the reality of what they are doing to them, or what they have done to them in the past (I don't know if it's malice so much as denial.)
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They are boarding schools and programs and for the first time in many of these kids lives they are held accountable for their actions and it seems abusive to them because this is a first for them. The schools have to make up for and turn around 15 or more years of a lax life in a very short time, so there isn’t much time for laying around and empowering laziness. The environment is extremely structured and when you come from an extremely “unstructured” home, cleaning their room and common hallways, helping in the kitchen, doing homework, writing in their journal, attending meetings on time, dressing appropriately, brushing their teeth, being respectful to others, writing letters home, getting up early, going to school every day etc. will be considered abusive.
We know this guest is a pro-program troll, and now we can see clear evidence of how anti-family programs truly are. Just read the disrespect and disdain in the post above. Programs regard parents and families as incompetent fools, good only as ATMs for the profit-machine of the program. This quote should be sent to every parent considering sending their kid to a program--let them see who they're really dealing with.
Auntie Em
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resposibility is not abuse to anyone! but the way programs go about and justify 'teaching' responsibility is abuse: as in sleep deprivation, motivating, being yelled and spit at, food and medical deprivation, loss of ALL privacy, even the privacy to think your own thoughts.... the list of abuses goes on and is damaging to a child... you may see short term 'success' but the long tetm damage is done and not worth the short term 'benefit... the long term damage is cptsd, loss of close relationships and trust and even more severe physical and mental problems... thats if they are not killed in one of these torture mills or commit suicide later on.
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Programs regard parents and families as incompetent fools
Wow, where did you ever hear that?
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Straight was a loving place of hope and healing where people could work on their drug and alcohol problems with some dignity and pride. Your supportive family network is willing to work on themselves to help reconnect with you in spite of the relationships that you once ruined with them. A team of professional staff members to help and assist you and your loved ones through the long and painful recovery process. Are you diseased individuals? Yes. Are you the lowest form of life on Earth? I`m afraid so. Do you need a time out from society because of all the bridges you have burned because of your addictions? Without a druggie doubt. Upon graduation you may even wish to serve on the honorable staff and help other addicts with their problems. If you prove you are a worthy example to others you might be accepted to join this ring of Honor called "Staff." Is Straight confrontational? Yes but only in a tough love way and if you complete the program you will come to understand that the sweet is never as sweet without the sour. I wish you well as you take this brave and unpredictable journey of recovery and discovery.
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Programs regard parents and families as incompetent fools
Wow, where did you ever hear that?
Guest's own words. And I've seen the programs in action, seen how anti-family they have been with our family.
As a program rep, Guest gives a description of home life that accuses parents--apparently all parents of troubled teens--of enabling "lax life," "laying around and empowering laziness," providing an "extremely 'unstructured' home," and unable to even get their kids to clean their room or brush their teeth.
Programs condescend to parents--lick their boots just long enough to get the child enrolled-and then want little to do with them except for parents' bank accounts. That's why they keep parents and family members separated from their children for months or years. That's why communication with parents and between parents and children is kept to a bare minimum.
Totally anti-family in their actions, regardless of thier words. Truly pro-family services are community-based and focus on helping the child be successful AT HOME, not a thousand miles away from home.
You're fooling yourself if you think programs really care about kids--they care about $7,000 a month per child. Owned by mega-corporations, companies like CRC Health BOAST in their corporate earnings statements that residential programs for youth earn them net income per youth per day of $233.80.
Auntie Em
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Time and again we hear and read these angry complaints. We`ve heard it all before. Straight never let me go to the bathroom by myself on 1st phase. Those oldcomers robbed us of all our dignity. Cradle Snatchers!!!!!!!!!!! Perverts!!!!!!!!!!! Orwellian Lunatics!!!!!!!! The Straight`s recruiting brutal young teenagers into the Straight cult by proposing debilitation and will-sapping techniques of conditioning. What the Hell were they thinking? Other furious comments and questions about Straight refusing to allow newcomers to use the restroom by themselves. The answer is simple. The reason Straight supervised all newcomers bathroom visits was because Straight didn`t want you to go back to drugs and alcohol. Straight loved you to much to love you to death. In other words Straight refused to allow you to kill yourselves with booze and other mind altering chemicals. The graphic image of the teenage druggie lying dead on the ice cold streets with a needle in the arm is still just as relevant today as it ever was before. Besides that specific image is one of the best pieces of morbid art ever created. Countless teens were signed into Straight by terrified parents to avoid and prevent this very frightening doomsday scenario from happening. You can`t blame them for that. Don`t look back in anger. Be not bitter about your Straight Incorporated experiences. Just do this. I challenge you to do the following. The next time you see a former oldcomer of yours or if you happen to see former staff member from the Straight you attended you just walk right up to that person and you thank that person for saving your life. It doesn`t matter if that oldcomer or staff member person is knee walking drunk as a skunk or if the person smoking the biggest tokemaster ever invented. You just just thank that person. If you can do that you have truly taken the high road.
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In addition, the GAO’s investigation revealed that many teen residential treatment programs have been using deceptive marketing practices and questionable tactics to lure vulnerable parents desperate to find help for their children.
“For far too long, these abuses, neglect and mistreatment of children – some of the most horrific violations of trust imaginable – have been allowed to go on completely unchecked,” said Miller, the chairman of the House Education and Labor Committee. “Parents deserve every assurance that their children will be safe and protected when attending a program intended to help improve their lives.”
"It is no doubt a painful and difficult decision for parents to send their children to residential treatment facilities and the last thing they should have to worry about is the possibility of unknowingly putting their kids in harms way,” said McCarthy, chairwoman of the Healthy Families and Communities subcommittee. “It is crucial that federal standards are set in place to prevent the abuse, neglect and deceptive marking practices that have devastated so many children and families.”
To address these problems, the Stop Child Abuse in Residential Programs for Teens Act of 2009, would:
Establish, for the first time, minimum federal standards for preventing child abuse and neglect at teen residential programs. The bill would require the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services to inspect all programs around the country every two years and to issue civil penalties against programs that violate the new standards. The bill also calls for states, within three years, to take on the role of setting and enforcing standards for both private and public youth residential programs.
Strengthen protections for children attending these programs. The bill would require programs to provide children with adequate food, water, medical care and rest.
Ensure that programs are transparent and provide parents with information about teen residential programs that enable them to make safe choices for their teenagers. The legislation would create a toll-free national hotline for individuals to report cases of abuse and a website with information about substantiated cases of abuse at residential programs, including programs locations, owners, and history of violations and child fatalities. Programs would also be required to inform parents of their staff members’ qualifications, roles and responsibilities.
The House passed similar legislation last June by a bipartisan vote of 318 to 103, with the support of the American Association of Children’s Residential Centers, American Bar Association, American Academy of Pediatrics, American Psychological Association, the Child Welfare League of America, Children’s Defense Fund, Easter Seals, Mental Health America, the National Child Abuse Coalition and many other organizations.
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In addition, the GAO’s investigation revealed that many teen residential treatment programs have been using deceptive marketing practices and questionable tactics to lure vulnerable parents desperate to find help for their children.
“For far too long, these abuses, neglect and mistreatment of children – some of the most horrific violations of trust imaginable – have been allowed to go on completely unchecked,” said Miller, the chairman of the House Education and Labor Committee. “Parents deserve every assurance that their children will be safe and protected when attending a program intended to help improve their lives.”
"It is no doubt a painful and difficult decision for parents to send their children to residential treatment facilities and the last thing they should have to worry about is the possibility of unknowingly putting their kids in harms way,” said McCarthy, chairwoman of the Healthy Families and Communities subcommittee. “It is crucial that federal standards are set in place to prevent the abuse, neglect and deceptive marking practices that have devastated so many children and families.”
To address these problems, the Stop Child Abuse in Residential Programs for Teens Act of 2009, would:
Establish, for the first time, minimum federal standards for preventing child abuse and neglect at teen residential programs. The bill would require the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services to inspect all programs around the country every two years and to issue civil penalties against programs that violate the new standards. The bill also calls for states, within three years, to take on the role of setting and enforcing standards for both private and public youth residential programs.
Strengthen protections for children attending these programs. The bill would require programs to provide children with adequate food, water, medical care and rest.
Ensure that programs are transparent and provide parents with information about teen residential programs that enable them to make safe choices for their teenagers. The legislation would create a toll-free national hotline for individuals to report cases of abuse and a website with information about substantiated cases of abuse at residential programs, including programs locations, owners, and history of violations and child fatalities. Programs would also be required to inform parents of their staff members’ qualifications, roles and responsibilities.
The House passed similar legislation last June by a bipartisan vote of 318 to 103, with the support of the American Association of Children’s Residential Centers, American Bar Association, American Academy of Pediatrics, American Psychological Association, the Child Welfare League of America, Children’s Defense Fund, Easter Seals, Mental Health America, the National Child Abuse Coalition and many other organizations.
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Guest's own words. And I've seen the programs in action, seen how anti-family they have been with our family.
We could probably draw examples supporting both sides. I have seen them in action also.
As a program rep, Guest gives a description of home life that accuses parents--apparently all parents of troubled teens--of enabling "lax life," "laying around and empowering laziness," providing an "extremely 'unstructured' home," and unable to even get their kids to clean their room or brush their teeth.
As posters here on fornits we hear stories of how abusive programs are. Accuse staff of being torturers.
Programs condescend to parents--lick their boots just long enough to get the child enrolled-and then want little to do with them except for parents' bank accounts. That's why they keep parents and family members separated from their children for months or years. That's why communication with parents and between parents and children is kept to a bare minimum.
If you actually did know about how programs work you would know why the kids are separated from family and friends.
Totally anti-family in their actions, regardless of thier words. Truly pro-family services are community-based and focus on helping the child be successful AT HOME, not a thousand miles away from home.
True survivors know how far they have come and appreciate the help that their parents and the programs provided.
You're fooling yourself if you think programs really care about kids--they care about $7,000 a month per child. Owned by mega-corporations, companies like CRC Health BOAST in their corporate earnings statements that residential programs for youth earn them net income per youth per day of $233.80.
Name a few people that work for free? So if they decided to accept a few kids for free that would make everything okay?
Guest wrote: Time and again we hear and read these angry complaints. We`ve heard it all before. Straight never let me go to the bathroom by myself on 1st phase.
Easy solution: Dont send any kids to straight. Lets get the word out!!
In addition, the GAO’s investigation revealed that many teen residential treatment programs have been using deceptive marketing practices and questionable tactics to lure vulnerable parents desperate to find help for their children.
Many is more three and less than most. So we can safely say the number is well below 50% or they would have said close to half. So lets say 25% use these practices, that still leaves 75% of the programs are doing a good job. Lets expose the bad ones or maybe regulation will weed them out.
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Many is more three and less than most. So we can safely say the number is well below 50% or they would have said close to half. So lets say 25% use these practices, that still leaves 75% of the programs are doing a good job.
That is unbelievably confusing math... (if that's what you want to call it.)
What does "many is more three and less than most" mean, exactly? ? I have attempted to cobble some sort meaning out of this, but cannot. Is this a typo? Did you drop a word somewhere?
100% of me does not understand your point, however, about 85% of this sum also does not care, but the remaining 15% is so confounded by your hypothetical pie-chart of retardation, that I simply had to inquire out of morbid interest.
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Many is more three and less than most. So we can safely say the number is well below 50% or they would have said close to half. So lets say 25% use these practices, that still leaves 75% of the programs are doing a good job.
That is unbelievably confusing math... (if that's what you want to call it.)
What does "many is more three and less than most" mean, exactly? ? I have attempted to cobble some sort meaning out of this, but cannot. Is this a typo? Did you drop a word somewhere?
100% of me does not understand your point, however, about 85% of this sum also does not care, but the remaining 15% is so confounded by your hypothetical pie-chart of retardation, that I simply had to inquire out of morbid interest.
Sorry Castle, it could be a little confusing as I look back on it. When reporting in generalities words like “A few”, “A couple”, Many”, “Close to half”, “Most” etc are used when there is not a definite number or percentage to report.
Reference:
the GAO’s investigation revealed that many teen residential treatment programs have been using deceptive marketing practices
“A couple” typically means “2”
“A few” typically means “3”
“Many” Typically means greater than “3”
“Close to half” typically means near “50%”
“Most” means more than half (or greater than 50%)
“All” would mean 100%
So when the GAO reported that “many” programs have deceptive marketing practices, we can conclude it is greater than 3 programs and substantially less than half. I choose 25% for argument, but it could be 30-40%.. Anything above 40% would be reported as “close to half”.
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Oh please. Like the GAO is useful for anything, anyway.
As if regulation will do anything except lend credibility to something so utterly immoral and corrupt that it deserves nothing less than complete and total eradication.
But... im a crazy, frothy-mouthed abolitionist, anyway. What do I know?
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Oh please. Like the GAO is useful for anything, anyway.
As if regulation will do anything except lend credibility to something so utterly immoral and corrupt that it deserves nothing less than complete and total eradication.
But... im a crazy, frothy-mouthed abolitionist, anyway. What do I know?
I agree, but at least it is a piece of "independent" information. Reading here on fornits you would think every program was deceptive. It is nice to get some outside info into the mix and see that not all (or the vast majority) of the programs are corrupt. As far as we know the GAO wasnt being paid by the industry lol. Regulation may weed out the bad programs and go a long way in keeping these kids safe from abuse.
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Regulation may weed out the bad programs and go a long way in keeping these kids safe from abuse.
Kind of hard to weed out anything when all we are looking at is a garden of crabgrass and dandelions. But at least with the dandelions you can pick and blow out seeds to create a whole new patch of crap. wheeee! my inner child is filled with wonder.
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If you could confront your abuser face to face, would you?
Yes, I would sue him for punitive damages!
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Regulation may weed out the bad programs and go a long way in keeping these kids safe from abuse.
Kind of hard to weed out anything when all we are looking at is a garden of crabgrass and dandelions. But at least with the dandelions you can pick and blow out seeds to create a whole new patch of crap. wheeee! my inner child is filled with wonder.
Yes, it is a daunting task. I am not sure myself if I could determine the good from the bad with any degree of accuracy. Regulation is just a piece of the solution. We need to continue to expose the abusive programs and allow the others to prosper. The GAO was merely a starting point.
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Prolific troll is prolific.
You do know that this all grants you nothing but a couple more points on the scale, don't you?
7/10
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So in one day, you've admitted that programs are anti-parent, and that there are bad programs that need to be weeded out. Excellent.
As to the GAO, they documented 1,619 reports of abuse, maltreatement, neglect, torture and death at programs in 33 states in 2005 alone. And that's just the abuse that programs actually reported; it does not include incidents of maltreatment programs chose not to report.
The House and the GAO have issued three reports documenting abuse and deceptive marketing practices. See these links:
Report 1: http://http://edlabor.house.gov/testimony/101007GregoryKutzTestimony.pdf
Report 2: http://http://edlabor.house.gov/testimony/2008-04-24-GregKutz.pdf
Report 3: http://http://edlabor.house.gov/testimony/2008-04-24-KayBrown.pdf
Parent testimony 1: http://http://edlabor.house.gov/testimony/101007CynthiaHarveyTestimony.pdf
Parent testimony 2: http://http://edlabor.house.gov/testimony/101007BobBaconTestimony.pdf
Parent testimony 3: http://http://edlabor.house.gov/testimony/101007PaulLewisTestimony.pdf
Congress and the GAO are not the only federal entities issuing dire warnings of widespread systemic abuse in programs (not just a few bad apples). The Federal Trade Commission has published these warnings to people considering placing a teen in a program:
http://http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2008/07/residentialfyi.shtm
The FTC has also provided these Facts for Consumers:
http://http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/consumer/products/pro27.shtm.
Auntie Em
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Straight was a loving place of hope and healing where people could work on their drug and alcohol problems with some dignity and pride. Your supportive family network is willing to work on themselves to help reconnect with you in spite of the relationships that you once ruined with them. A team of professional staff members to help and assist you and your loved ones through the long and painful recovery process. Are you diseased individuals? Yes. Are you the lowest form of life on Earth? I`m afraid so. Do you need a time out from society because of all the bridges you have burned because of your addictions? Without a druggie doubt. Upon graduation you may even wish to serve on the honorable staff and help other addicts with their problems. If you prove you are a worthy example to others you might be accepted to join this ring of Honor called "Staff." Is Straight confrontational? Yes but only in a tough love way and if you complete the program you will come to understand that the sweet is never as sweet without the sour. I wish you well as you take this brave and unpredictable journey of recovery and discovery.
Im not an addict, never was and never will be. the only "disease" I have is high blood pressure.
Seriously go fuck yourself with your generalizations about people on this forum, I'm sick and tired of it. You clearly know nothing about us personally and have a warped general perception of your former clients. Regardless of what you have convinced yourself about the people who denounce your now defunct child torturing cult, the evidence of existing abuse in these places is undeniable. You have to be completely out of your mind to refuse to see that.
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Im not an addict, never was and never will be.
Neither am I, but I sure as hell am workin on it. Wooo hooo!
Will work for Tina.
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So in one day, you've admitted that programs are anti-parent, and that there are bad programs that need to be weeded out. Excellent.
I don’t think programs are anti-family, I must have missed that or you are mixing up posts. The need for weeding out bad programs I fully agree with. The GAO investigation did not attempt to evaluate the benefits of the industry as a whole only the problem areas.
Similar investigations into other industries where they are looking at the use of anaesthesia in particular in dentists off ices where there is little control and regulation. They have found instances of woman being touched and molested. The investigations intent is to expose these areas and try to correct them via regulation etc. The GAO doesn’t expect their investigation to result in eliminating the dental industry and telling people not to seek dental care. But that seems to be the feeling here with some on fornits with the teen help industry. We need to recognize that the industry helps kids, as the GAO has mentioned, and try to expose the bad and allow the good to surface and thrive.
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So in one day, you've admitted that programs are anti-parent, and that there are bad programs that need to be weeded out. Excellent.
I don’t think programs are anti-family, I must have missed that or you are mixing up posts. The need for weeding out bad programs I fully agree with. The GAO investigation did not attempt to evaluate the benefits of the industry as a whole only the problem areas.
Similar investigations into other industries where they are looking at the use of anaesthesia in particular in dentists off ices where there is little control and regulation. They have found instances of woman being touched and molested. The investigations intent is to expose these areas and try to correct them via regulation etc. The GAO doesn’t expect their investigation to result in eliminating the dental industry and telling people not to seek dental care. But that seems to be the feeling here with some on fornits with the teen help industry. We need to recognize that the industry helps kids, as the GAO has mentioned, and try to expose the bad and allow the good to surface and thrive.
Shitty comparison is shitty
2/10
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So in one day, you've admitted that programs are anti-parent, and that there are bad programs that need to be weeded out. Excellent.
I don’t think programs are anti-family, I must have missed that or you are mixing up posts. The need for weeding out bad programs I fully agree with. The GAO investigation did not attempt to evaluate the benefits of the industry as a whole only the problem areas.
Similar investigations into other industries where they are looking at the use of anaesthesia in particular in dentists off ices where there is little control and regulation. They have found instances of woman being touched and molested. The investigations intent is to expose these areas and try to correct them via regulation etc. The GAO doesn’t expect their investigation to result in eliminating the dental industry and telling people not to seek dental care. But that seems to be the feeling here with some on fornits with the teen help industry. We need to recognize that the industry helps kids, as the GAO has mentioned, and try to expose the bad and allow the good to surface and thrive.
Shitty comparison is shitty
2/10
Ahhh, Cop out.....
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I smell who ressurection
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I smell who ressurection
Why, yes. Rather than rethink the alleged "therapeutic aspects," it would appear that tragedy has made him all that more committed. A sad story indeed.
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Your dental industry analogy is pretty ridiculous. I don't think anyone is saying that EVERY single place that claims to help kids should be shut down. If you'd like to use the dental industry comparison, then a more realistic analogy would be, say, a dental clinic - where most (if not, all) of the staff had fake qualifications from non-accredited universities and really didn't know what the hell they were doing. In the clinic, patients were often abused and the abuse was condoned, concealed and unreported. If such a clinic existed- ABSOLUTELY, it should be shut down and every single one of those "dentists" should never be allowed to work with "teeth" again.
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If such a clinic existed- ABSOLUTELY, it should be shut down and every single one of those "dentists" should never be allowed to work with "teeth" again.
psh.. helloooo? Western Dental. I can't possibly be the only one on these boards who's had to go there at least once.
Certified or not, I felt like I was in the motherfucking marathon man... if the nazi makes you wait for three hours, that is.
I smell who ressurection
You're right. This one totally writes like him. Probably is. Especially that whole "letting others prosper" bullshit.
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Your dental industry analogy is pretty ridiculous. I don't think anyone is saying that EVERY single place that claims to help kids should be shut down..........
I dont think everyone here wants to shut down every program, but there are some that think since they were abused in one program then they are all bad. Just like the Dentist analogy. We could just as easily use samanila in peanutbutter as an example. The ongoing investigation isnt trying to put an end to people ever eating peanut butter again. They want to weed out and expose the problem areas and shut them down and/or redefine regulation to prevent it from happening again. I am sure they will find poorly trained workers and owners trying to increase their profit margin as contributing causes.
Trying to protest and shut down the entire peanutbutter industry is not the right way to go. People would still try to purchase it on the black market which would put the kids at an even greater risk of getting a poisonous batch.
The same goes for the teen help industry.
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I dont think everyone here wants to shut down every program, but there are some that think since they were abused in one program then they are all bad. Just like the Dentist analogy. We could just as easily use samanila in peanutbutter as an example. The ongoing investigation isnt trying to put an end to people ever eating peanut butter again. They want to weed out and expose the problem areas and shut them down and/or redefine regulation to prevent it from happening again. I am sure they will find poorly trained workers and owners trying to increase their profit margin as contributing causes.
Trying to protest and shut down the entire peanutbutter industry is not the right way to go. People would still try to purchase it on the black market which would put the kids at an even greater risk of getting a poisonous batch.
The same goes for the teen help industry.
^^^^ :guesswho: Classic Hooter: bad analogy, faulty logic.
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Straight was a loving place of hope and healing where people could work on their drug and alcohol problems with some dignity and pride. Your supportive family network is willing to work on themselves to help reconnect with you in spite of the relationships that you once ruined with them. A team of professional staff members to help and assist you and your loved ones through the long and painful recovery process. Are you diseased individuals? Yes. Are you the lowest form of life on Earth? I`m afraid so. Do you need a time out from society because of all the bridges you have burned because of your addictions? Without a druggie doubt. Upon graduation you may even wish to serve on the honorable staff and help other addicts with their problems. If you prove you are a worthy example to others you might be accepted to join this ring of Honor called "Staff." Is Straight confrontational? Yes but only in a tough love way and if you complete the program you will come to understand that the sweet is never as sweet without the sour. I wish you well as you take this brave and unpredictable journey of recovery and discovery.
Im not an addict, never was and never will be. the only "disease" I have is high blood pressure.
Seriously go fuck yourself with your generalizations about people on this forum, I'm sick and tired of it. You clearly know nothing about us personally and have a warped general perception of your former clients. Regardless of what you have convinced yourself about the people who denounce your now defunct child torturing cult, the evidence of existing abuse in these places is undeniable. You have to be completely out of your mind to refuse to see that.
You don't have to cuss, young lady. Don't make me wash your mouth out with soap! Our group therapy sessions plumb the blackest depths of the human heart. Jeez, kids need tough love -- it's been proven time and again, over the course of many centuries. Get a clue! How could all of our research and experiments be wrong? They are not! Our program is a shining success, despite people like you shitting on it on this forum. You think you know it all, don't you? Well, you obviously don't!! Have a great day!!!
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TACTIC 1. The individual is prepared for thought reform through increased suggestibility and/or "softening up," specifically through hypnotic or other suggestibility-increasing techniques such as: A. Extended audio, visual, verbal, or tactile fixation drills; B. Excessive exact repetition of routine activities; C. Decreased sleep; D. Nutritional restriction.
TACTIC 2. Using rewards and punishments, efforts are made to establish considerable control over a person's social environment, time, and sources of social support. Social isolation is promoted. Contact with family and friends is abridged, as is contact with persons who do not share group-approved attitudes. Economic and other dependence on the group is fostered. (In the forerunner to coercive persuasion, brainwashing, this was rather easy to achieve through simple imprisonment.)
THIS IS WHAT THESE TEEN PLACES ARE ALL ABOUT!!! MAKE NO MISTAKE ABOUT IT! IT IS CRIMINAL BUT WE ALL KNOW HOW MANY CRIMES GOES UNPUNISHED EVERYDAY! PROTECT OUR CHILDREN PLEASE!
TACTIC 3. Disconfirming information and nonsupporting opinions are prohibited in group communication. Rules exist about permissible topics to discuss with outsiders. Communication is highly controlled. An "in-group" language is usually constructed.
TACTIC 4. Frequent and intense attempts are made to cause a person to re-evaluate the most central aspects of his or her experience of self and prior conduct in negative ways. Efforts are designed to destabilize and undermine the subject's basic consciousness, reality awareness, world view, emotional control, and defense mechanisms as well as getting them to reinterpret their life's history, and adopt a new version of causality.
TACTIC 5. Intense and frequent attempts are made to undermine a person's confidence in himself and his judgment, creating a sense of powerlessness.
TACTIC 6. Nonphysical punishments are used such as intense humiliation, loss of privilege, social isolation, social status changes, intense guilt, anxiety, manipulation and other techniques for creating strong aversive emotional arousals, etc.
TACTIC 7. Certain secular psychological threats [force] are used or are present: That failure to adopt the approved attitude, belief, or consequent behavior will lead to severe punishment or dire consequence, (e.g. physical or mental illness, the reappearance of a prior physical illness, drug dependence, economic collapse, social failure, divorce, disintegration, failure to find a mate, etc.).
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I am not big fan of all this thought reform, brow beating etc. This was fine for the 1970’s and 80’s and was the latest thing but today I would Opt out of programs which utilize Tactics 1 thru 7 and try to get the child into a highly structured program where they will be safe and away from their present toxic environment, one which will also expose them to academics and give them a chance to grow emotionally.
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despite people like you shitting on it on this forum.
Haha, If I were interested in just cussing I would have said a word like "shit" but I told you to go fuck yourself... meaning take your dick, pinch it between your legs, curl your dick around your balls and shove it up your ass.
Comprende?
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lol, Femanon, you describe it so well. Up until about 5 years ago I was actually able to do that.
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lol, Femanon, you describe it so well. Up until about 5 years ago I was actually able to do that.
oh my god you lucky son of a bitch.
Of course, it was predictable that I would comment on this.
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I always took Femanon as the "Life time movie channel" type. I can see she heads right to the back of the video store upon entering. Kinda cool
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I used to be able to do that as a kid, but now my balls get in the way.
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I used to be able to do that as a kid, but now my balls get in the way.
Thats because you are trying to go over the scrotum. Femanon says you need to route it around the balls and I believe she knows what she is talking about. You do gain about 2 inches more the way Femanon describes it.
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Absolutely
I would love to confront them especially Art. He made me have a total hysteractomy at the age of 17, treated me with contempt and sexual abuse. He kicked me one time so hard I bled from my rectum for weeks. It was pure torture. I was emotionally abused for 5 friggin years and sadly did not know where to go until I finally got brave and left in the dark of night. he manipulated me, made me watch porn movies, told me I was no good. I fell in love at the seed with a guy named Kenny and thought the world would finally be okay Art screwed that up and had Kenny marry someone else, That was when he married John Perloff off to Cindy, Libby to some scum bag etc. I hated it. I was called names, humiliated etc. ANYONE who says the seed is good is still lost and messed up. YES I would love to get in his face. Do you know what it feels like to find out years later that no way can I have kids because some scum bag told me to have an operation I had no understanding of? The repercussion of that place are horrendous. I was haunted for years and this is only the beginning of the story. Contact me I will do it!
Isabellabelieves@gmail.com
Upon doing so I will reveal who I am and all that happened.
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A little harsh I would say. They are boarding schools and programs and for the first time in many of these kids lives they are held accountable for their actions and it seems abusive to them because this is a first for them. The schools have to make up for and turn around 15 or more years of a lax life in a very short time, so there isn’t much time for laying around and empowering laziness. The environment is extremely structured and when you come from an extremely “unstructured” home, cleaning their room and common hallways, helping in the kitchen, doing homework, writing in their journal, attending meetings on time, dressing appropriately, brushing their teeth, being respectful to others, writing letters home, getting up early, going to school every day etc. will be considered abusive.
Many would not want to face their abusers because they know they needed the kick in the butt that came to them and they are better people for it.. bitter because they were separated from their family? Maybe.. but whose fault was that? Why didn’t family life work out for them? It wasn’t the programs fault. Much of the anger is do to bad choices that were made early on and local options to correct them were unsuccessful. Many of the kids had plenty of warning and chances before a program became an option. Maybe the parents shoulder some of the blame but the vast majority of it lies with the kids refusal to work within the families rules and structure.
When reading here on fornits the readers need to understand that many of these kids never had structure in their lives so their definition of abuse is distorted a bit. If there really were hundreds of thousands of kids abused by this system no one would need a study to determine there was a problem. The psychiatric community would be overwhelmed and the cause would be easily determined and they would be obligated to contact the authorities themselves. This has clearly not happened. This is a great forum for people to get together but I would not get too hung up on the claims of torture, kidnapping, shackling, rape, isolation and abuse that many claim to occur in the local Gulags. If any of this actually happened, people magazine would pay them a fortune for their story and I am sure there are a few people who could use a few hundred grand here on fornits.
Quick guide to making "structure" abusive so pay attention:
1) You use the infamous repeat system. Allow me to elaborate:
"Oh I'm sorry Jonny but your bed isn't up to spec. Do it again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and Oh I'm sorry jonny but I can't believe YOU snapped over making your bed and I had to restrain you. Silly boy."
2) Idiotically high expectations:
"I'm sorry boys but your cabin has a spot of dust on the top shelf of your book case. You are all going to have to face the consequences now."
3) Emotional Manipulation:
"Don't you know that while you are snapping because I'm spending all day provoking you with my psychotically high expectations your poor mom and dad are at home and they miss you? Obviously you don't love your parents. You should tell them to adopt a Vietnamese child so they don't get lonely. Oh dear me you snapped again, mind your head doesn't hit that log on the way dooowwwwwwwwwnnnn."
4) Vague Treatment plans:
Resident Tommy Twiddles will learn to deal and control his ADHD.
wtf? I'm fairly sure if Tommy knew how to accomplish this he'd probably have done it on his own a while ago.
5) Physical Manipulation/Emotional Manipulation/Idiotically High Expectations
"Oh dear me boys.. you don't appreciate your cabin? I guess we'll be sleeping in tents for the next week. Anyone who can't meet the group's new standards will cause the entire to have to repeat the entire day! Oh dear me.. Tommy are you going to snap? Remember Tommy your mommy loves you, how is that Vietnamese orphan they are going to adopt doing while you are here hating them in the program? Oh dear.. mind your head on the way down, as you either have the log or the rock."
The list goes on and on and on..
Your little structured utopia of pseudo horse shit is nothing more than a snake nest of abuse or potential abuse. Either it has happened or it will happened. Parents who are slack around the house need to man the fuck up and take control of their own damn lives and homes. Sending their kids to a program because they are to knackered at the end of the day or to damn busy with their social schedule doesn't cut it. If you are man or woman enough to make a baby or shit one out you damn well better be man or woman enough to be the child's proper parenting.
New slogan...
Proper parenting prevents piss poor programs
back on boycott.. peace.
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I always took Femanon as the "Life time movie channel" type. I can see she heads right to the back of the video store upon entering. Kinda cool
Lifetime movie channel? I really didnt know that was a type... but I'm sorry my excellent way with words has lead you to that conclusion... I am probably one of the most foul minded individuals you might be able to find.
In case you ever doubted me (http://http://www.naughtyimagehosting.com/showfile.php?id=995e1fMjMwMQ@@)
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Hey Che Gookin or whomever you are. Your way out of line. I lived it! I am the post you commented on and hey I came from a very structered family so making my bed was not the issue! The abuse was. Sadly if my family new then what I was going thru they would have mutilated Art. I got caught smoking pot and my parents freaked. Beginning of sad story I ended up at the Seed on a "friend" of the family's reccomendation. What happened after was not scolding it was pure abuse. I never reported it because I was to afraid. Yeah when your a kid from a good home and your in the middle of hell you freak! I buried this stuff for years until someone shared this website and finally I can "vent" and express my anger and what I endured. No stories just the truth. Where the hell were you when all this was going on. Looking for shell on the weekly beach trip? So Art could gaggle at us in swim suits then take us to porn shops in Hollywood FL. it happened! Wake up why the hell do you think so many people are writing? By the way the Doc who did the surgery told me that it was routine until AFTER. I was a naive kid who abused, pure and simple. Deal with it and get off your high horse. You were one of the lucky ones, probably not that appealing to Art so you ESCAPED the hell alot of us went thru. Learn the facts before you reply!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! People like you disgust me. You probably think all homeless people are at fault to! I bet you voted for Palin.
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Hey Che Gookin or whomever you are. Your way out of line. I lived it! I am the post you commented on and hey I came from a very structered family so making my bed was not the issue! The abuse was. Sadly if my family new then what I was going thru they would have mutilated Art. I got caught smoking pot and my parents freaked. Beginning of sad story I ended up at the Seed on a "friend" of the family's reccomendation. What happened after was not scolding it was pure abuse. I never reported it because I was to afraid. Yeah when your a kid from a good home and your in the middle of hell you freak! I buried this stuff for years until someone shared this website and finally I can "vent" and express my anger and what I endured. No stories just the truth. Where the hell were you when all this was going on. Looking for shell on the weekly beach trip? So Art could gaggle at us in swim suits then take us to porn shops in Hollywood FL. it happened! Wake up why the hell do you think so many people are writing? By the way the Doc who did the surgery told me that it was routine until AFTER. I was a naive kid who abused, pure and simple. Deal with it and get off your high horse. You were one of the lucky ones, probably not that appealing to Art so you ESCAPED the hell alot of us went thru. Learn the facts before you reply!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! People like you disgust me. You probably think all homeless people are at fault to! I bet you voted for Palin.
Che's boycotting so probably wont be back to answer you but a few things you might be confused about
One was his point, not saying that structure is the abuse but that in these programs it can be used as abuse... and he isn't denying that abuse exists either.
another thing is that he wasn't a student. Actually he was staff.
and last but not least is your assumption about his political party.... being as he isnt even in the united states I don't think he voted for Palin.
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being as he isnt even in the united states I don't think he voted for Palin
.
U.S. Citizens vote "Absentee" all the time.
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Absolutely
I would love to confront them especially Art. He made me have a total hysteractomy at the age of 17, treated me with contempt and sexual abuse. He kicked me one time so hard I bled from my rectum for weeks. It was pure torture. I was emotionally abused for 5 friggin years and sadly did not know where to go until I finally got brave and left in the dark of night. he manipulated me, made me watch porn movies, told me I was no good. I fell in love at the seed with a guy named Kenny and thought the world would finally be okay Art screwed that up and had Kenny marry someone else, That was when he married John Perloff off to Cindy, Libby to some scum bag etc. I hated it. I was called names, humiliated etc. ANYONE who says the seed is good is still lost and messed up. YES I would love to get in his face. Do you know what it feels like to find out years later that no way can I have kids because some scum bag told me to have an operation I had no understanding of? The repercussion of that place are horrendous. I was haunted for years and this is only the beginning of the story. Contact me I will do it!
Isabellabelieves@gmail.com
Upon doing so I will reveal who I am and all that happened.
i AM SO sorry. I hope you get justice. the monster should be KILLED
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Straight was a loving place of hope and healing where people could work on their drug and alcohol problems with some dignity and pride. Your supportive family network is willing to work on themselves to help reconnect with you in spite of the relationships that you once ruined with them. A team of professional staff members to help and assist you and your loved ones through the long and painful recovery process. Are you diseased individuals? Yes. Are you the lowest form of life on Earth? I`m afraid so. Do you need a time out from society because of all the bridges you have burned because of your addictions? Without a druggie doubt. Upon graduation you may even wish to serve on the honorable staff and help other addicts with their problems. If you prove you are a worthy example to others you might be accepted to join this ring of Honor called "Staff." Is Straight confrontational? Yes but only in a tough love way and if you complete the program you will come to understand that the sweet is never as sweet without the sour. I wish you well as you take this brave and unpredictable journey of recovery and discovery.
OH MY FRIGGIN GOD. Some lunatic defending STRAIGHT? This is perhaps, Terri Nissley?
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What about the fact that these people rarely consent to interviews, what would you do to lure them in? tell them you are reporting on their side of the story, get a little tour of their facility and then lure them into a separate location for debriefing and then surprise them with the confrontation? (kinda like in intervention)