Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Ursus on February 26, 2009, 10:03:16 AM
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Essays
Posted: Feb 18, 2009
TROUBLED TEEN VS. STRUGGLING TEEN (http://http://www.strugglingteens.com/artman/publish/TroubledTeenStrugglingTeenES_090218.shtml)
By: Lon Woodbury
The terms Troubled Teen and Struggling Teen are frequently used interchangeably. I think that is an error because the connotations for each are different.
The term Troubled Teen is usually heard in the mental health field, most often referring to children with serious disorders and with serious problems that do not respond to normal family or society interventions. A bi-polar child or one who is severely depressed would be examples. These children seemed compelled by what in a previous age would have been called "demons." Something internal is driving the child to the extent that the child is unable to control it, and the child is unable to respond positively to external interventions like punishment, encouragement or discipline. The connotation is that the child needs treatment in order to lessen, control or eliminate these compulsions.
The term Struggling Teen has broader connotations. As we use it at Woodbury Reports, it can include a Troubled Teen with serious disorders but primarily includes teens who, for some reason or other, are floundering or failing in mainstream society and schools. These might include children floundering because of an undetected Learning Disability or Learning Difference. It might also include children that have an "entitled" mentality, or ones who internalized some criticism in the past and have lost all semblance of self confidence.
The Struggling Teen child might also appear to be "driven," but the cause is closer to being a gross misunderstanding of how the world works. The cause might not be traced to a serious diagnosis; but these Struggling Teen self-destructive behaviors, apparently throwing away their future, were of serious concern. Serious enough that residential placement was worth considering since they seem to be their own worse enemy.
I first learned of this difference when I was the Admissions Director for an Emotional Growth Boarding School in the 1980s. Many of the teens I was enrolling had been tearing their families apart and were engaging in serious self-destructive activities, thus the reasons the parents decided on residential placement. For many of these children, psychological evaluations had indicated they were more or less psychologically intact.
The most frequent manifestation was that they were emotionally immature for their age. The term often used at the time was "sixteen-years-old and going on four." That they seemed mature by demanding all the rights of an adult was misleading because they were reacting emotionally like a young child. For a child like this, treatment to a diagnosis was often ineffective, but emotional growth structure and experiences often were effective. In essence, what these children needed was to learn how to grow up.
It is important for a school, program, professional or parent to know the difference between a Troubled Teen and the broader implication of a Struggling Teen. Relying primarily on therapeutic treatment of a child whose primary trouble is a Learning or Immaturity problem is ineffective and sometimes can be harmful.
By the same token, emotional growth experiences for a Troubled Teen is ineffective and can be harmful, except when done in conjunction with professional treatment and therapy.
A good school or program will know the connotations of Troubled Teen and Struggling Teen and will act accordingly.
Copyright © 2009, Woodbury Reports, Inc.
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I AM THE FLIM-FLAM MAN.
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The patronizing condescension in passages like the following, makes me wonder about his capacity to understand human nature outside of a CEDU framework:
The most frequent manifestation was that they were emotionally immature for their age. The term often used at the time was "sixteen-years-old and going on four." That they seemed mature by demanding all the rights of an adult was misleading because they were reacting emotionally like a young child. For a child like this, treatment to a diagnosis was often ineffective, but emotional growth structure and experiences often were effective. In essence, what these children needed was to learn how to grow up.
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what a fucking doucheberry
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As we use it at Woodbury Reports, it can include a Troubled Teen with serious disorders but primarily includes teens who, for some reason or other, are floundering or failing in mainstream society and schools. These might include children floundering because of an undetected Learning Disability or Learning Difference. It might also include children that have an "entitled" mentality, or ones who internalized some criticism in the past and have lost all semblance of self confidence.
So basically he just admitted kids are in institutionalized with few if any problems other than normal teenage shit. Wackos like Lon think programs are appropriate for just about anybody with or without a problem.
What a dick.
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As we use it at Woodbury Reports, it can include a Troubled Teen with serious disorders but primarily includes teens who, for some reason or other, are floundering or failing in mainstream society and schools. These might include children floundering because of an undetected Learning Disability or Learning Difference. It might also include children that have an "entitled" mentality, or ones who internalized some criticism in the past and have lost all semblance of self confidence.
So basically he just admitted kids are in institutionalized with few if any problems other than normal teenage shit. Wackos like Lon think programs are appropriate for just about anybody with or without a problem.
What a dick.
Exactly what I was thinking. Can anything be done using this? I mean, he's basically admitting that normal kids are being incarcerated for being normal. I don't think they've ever been stupid enough to put it in writing before.
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So what I get is if all teenagers were have to report to some agency and profess all their drinking and drug useage experiences that probably 80% of teens would be considered canidates of these jacked up psychologically damaging programs. what a concept so much for the hippie era.......i mean out of the huge number of kids who managed to dodge these programs verses those who were captured prisoners just dont add up. so now we have a number of wounded soldiers wondering about who need to heal. but yet the industry does not recognise these former clients who they "fixed up, and made better" they just keep looking for more naive customers. we must keep informing the public and educate them to get all the facts, and do the reserach on these programs. This topic is very hard to comprehend by the "joe public" becasue it cannot be true that this is happening in modern day land of the free, USA can anyone say the words CORPORATE GREED??????????????
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So what I get is if all teenagers were have to report to some agency and profess all their drinking and drug useage experiences that probably 80% of teens would be considered canidates of these jacked up psychologically damaging programs. what a concept so much for the hippie era.......i mean out of the huge number of kids who managed to dodge these programs verses those who were captured prisoners just dont add up. so now we have a number of wounded soldiers wondering about who need to heal. but yet the industry does not recognise these former clients who they "fixed up, and made better" they just keep looking for more naive customers. we must keep informing the public and educate them to get all the facts, and do the reserach on these programs. This topic is very hard to comprehend by the "joe public" becasue it cannot be true that this is happening in modern day land of the free, USA can anyone say the words CORPORATE GREED??????????????
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As we use it at Woodbury Reports, it can include a Troubled Teen with serious disorders but primarily includes teens who, for some reason or other, are floundering or failing in mainstream society and schools. These might include children floundering because of an undetected Learning Disability or Learning Difference. It might also include children that have an "entitled" mentality, or ones who internalized some criticism in the past and have lost all semblance of self confidence.
So basically he just admitted kids are in institutionalized with few if any problems other than normal teenage shit. Wackos like Lon think programs are appropriate for just about anybody with or without a problem.
What a dick.
Exactly what I was thinking. Can anything be done using this? I mean, he's basically admitting that normal kids are being incarcerated for being normal. I don't think they've ever been stupid enough to put it in writing before.
Yup, I responded to it the same way the minute I first read it. Don't know whether it can be used, though. Is this Essay just his personal opinion, or his "professional opinion?" You'd think that being such an "experienced" Ed Con, he would understand that even his personal opinion carries a different kind of weight with parents than the average person.
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So what I get is if all teenagers were have to report to some agency and profess all their drinking and drug useage experiences that probably 80% of teens would be considered canidates of these jacked up psychologically damaging programs. what a concept so much for the hippie era.......i mean out of the huge number of kids who managed to dodge these programs verses those who were captured prisoners just dont add up. so now we have a number of wounded soldiers wondering about who need to heal. but yet the industry does not recognise these former clients who they "fixed up, and made better" they just keep looking for more naive customers. we must keep informing the public and educate them to get all the facts, and do the reserach on these programs. This topic is very hard to comprehend by the "joe public" becasue it cannot be true that this is happening in modern day land of the free, USA can anyone say the words CORPORATE GREED??????????????
Don't forget those kids who do not even have any drinking and drug use to speak of, but whose parents are coerced into sending their kids off to be polished into better, more up-standing, respectful, religious, etc. young adults. It is just past comprehension to the average person that this kind of thing goes on. These places truly are cults.
The end goal, from my perspective, is the creation of a "better" (more malleable) society, which fits right in with furthering the interests of...yep: corporate greed. I'm not just talking about the greed of specifically the TTI here. I'm talking about multinational corporate interests, who'd prefer a more placid herd of bovines to milk for all they're worth.
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Wouldn't a "floundering" kid be better served by community based or simple outpatient counseling? Oh, I forgot...Lon doesn't get paid for those services. Residential for nosepicking, that's how Lon gets paid.
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Wouldn't a "floundering" kid be better served by community based or simple outpatient counseling? Oh, I forgot...Lon doesn't get paid for those services. Residential for nosepicking, that's how Lon gets paid.
True. But, I think there's a whole lot more to it than just getting paid. It's a part of Lon's unabashed infatuation with the Human Potential movement. It's part of creating "A Better Society." He, and others of his ilk, simply cannot comprehend how or why anyone wouldn't think this is good for everyone.
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So incarceration without appeal for nuisance behavior? Got it. Amazing and appalling that he is blatantly stating it.
Also appears to be another shift in terminology designed to get around the increasingly negative associations with the "troubled teen industry."
What never changes is that no matter what the child's situation may be, the "struggling teen industry" has a snake oil that will cure it.
Auntie Em
P.S. It's also an interesting reality check to substitute the word "adult" for "teen" or "child" in an argument like this and notice how differently society regards the treatment of adults--forced committal without appeal is accepted as wrong.
Try for example:
The cause might not be traced to a serious diagnosis; but these Struggling ADULT self-destructive behaviors, apparently throwing away their future, were of serious concern. Serious enough that residential placement was worth considering since they seem to be their own worse enemy.
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Many of the ADULTS I was enrolling had been tearing their families apart and were engaging in serious self-destructive activities, thus the reasons the parents decided on residential placement. For many of these ADULTS, psychological evaluations had indicated they were more or less psychologically intact.
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Also appears to be another shift in terminology designed to get around the increasingly negative associations with the "troubled teen industry."
Fat chance that it's going to make any difference. He's still going to use it, since that is what parents google.
From the top of the home page, bold emphasis his: "educational consultants," "help for parents," "troubled teens."
You have found the original Internet site of trained and experienced educational consultants providing balanced news, information and professional help for parents of struggling and troubled teens find programs and schools for teens and at risk youth.
http://www.strugglingteens.com/ (http://www.strugglingteens.com/)
From the bottom of that page, in small print:
StrugglingTeens.com is published by Woodbury Reports, Inc (http://http://www.woodbury.com/). Our goal is to be the leading online source of information for parents of children making poor decisions, and professionals trying to help those families and professionals working with at-risk teens. The focus is on residential Emotional Growth (Character) schools and programs that work. This includes short and long term wilderness and outdoor programs, home style programs, highly structured boarding schools, therapy boarding schools, RTCs and psychiatric hospitals for children with behavior and emotional problems. All emphasize teaching self-discipline, consequences, responsibility, accountability and improved self-esteem. - Lon Woodbury
Does anyone really believe that "self-discipline, consequences, responsibility, accountability and improved self-esteem" is actually learned at these places?
I would say you tend to learn that "might is right," and to become accustomed to being shamed, punished, and harassed if you are unwilling or unable to betray the trust of your peers. I would also add that you learn to fear groups of people, and to lose trust in your own survival instincts and in doing anything of your own volition.
All this presuming that no egregious violations of trust occur, e.g., physical or sexual assault, harm experienced while forced to engage in activities beyond reasonable limits and the like.
This hardly sounds like a recipe for the "creation" of a fully functional and productive member of society.
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School and camping trips isn't considered incarceration. Lon is talking about the good programs, not the chosen few held up as example by you fine folks. ::)
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School and camping trips isn't considered incarceration. Lon is talking about the good programs, not the chosen few held up as example by you fine folks. ::)
Actually, he very much is referring to the programs discussed here.
He sent his daughter to the same program as I did:
In her words:
http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives ... /oe05.html (http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives/2000/6/oe05.html)
The experience of others:
http://newstandardnews.net/content/index.cfm/items/2619 (http://newstandardnews.net/content/index.cfm/items/2619)
Testimony - Kerry Keenan
http://cafety.youthrights.org/wiki/inde ... rry_Keenan (http://cafety.youthrights.org/wiki/index.php?title=Kerry_Keenan)
Testimony - Aileen Chu
http://cafety.youthrights.org/wiki/inde ... Aileen_Chu (http://cafety.youthrights.org/wiki/index.php?title=Aileen_Chu)
Video Testimony - Kathryn Whitehead
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUtUiDDMUl4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUtUiDDMUl4)
And Lon worked for CEDU, learn more about it here:
http://cafety.org/index.php?option=com_ ... 5&Itemid=2 (http://cafety.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=665&Itemid=2)
Lon is as knee deep in the dehumanizing tx of youth as they come...
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In 2007-2008, the Government Accountability Office at the request of Congress conducted a foresic investigation and published documentation of widespread reports of abuse, maltreatment, neglect and death of children--as well as deceptive marketing practices aimed at parents--in programs of all types and sizes across the country. More than 1,600 cases in 2006 alone.
This is not about an isolated few bad programs. It is about a documented pattern of child isolation and abuse for money, and deceptive fear-mongering and agressive selling to parents. Educational consultants like Woodbury take money (kickbacks) to refer children to these programs.
Auntie Em
Hearing 1: http://http://edlabor.house.gov/hearings/fc101007.shtml
Hearing 2: http://http://edlabor.house.gov/hearings/fc-2008-04-24.shtml
GAO Report 1: http://http://edlabor.house.gov/testimony/101007GregoryKutzTestimony.pdf
GAO Report 2: http://http://edlabor.house.gov/testimony/2008-04-24-GregKutz.pdf
GAO Report 3: http://http://edlabor.house.gov/testimony/2008-04-24-KayBrown.pdf
Parent testimony 1: http://http://edlabor.house.gov/testimony/101007CynthiaHarveyTestimony.pdf
Parent testimony 2: http://http://edlabor.house.gov/testimony/101007BobBaconTestimony.pdf
Parent testimony 3: http://http://edlabor.house.gov/testimony/101007PaulLewisTestimony.pdf
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School and camping trips isn't considered incarceration. Lon is talking about the good programs, not the chosen few held up as example by you fine folks. ::)
Okey dokey. Mention a "good" one".
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School and camping trips isn't considered incarceration. Lon is talking about the good programs, not the chosen few held up as example by you fine folks. ::)
Okey dokey. Mention a "good" one".
I know of several... but if you think I'm going to announce them here so you can harass the employees by posting their myspaces and hack their website, think again!! I know better than that and what you people are like. you are all predatory and only interested in defaming anyone trying to help kids. what have you done to help kids? nothing!!!!
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School and camping trips isn't considered incarceration. Lon is talking about the good programs, not the chosen few held up as example by you fine folks. ::)
Okey dokey. Mention a "good" one".
I know of several... bla bla bla... shit excuses ... bla bla bla ...
That's what I thought.
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Trolly troll is troll.
Lon's pure 1984, and growing more desperate and more demented every day.
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But at least Lon isn't totally obsessed with what you post here like you are with him. I can see you losers refreshing Lon's website just waiting for your chance to quote him and tell fornits how much you disagree with him. Wow! you all are such losers it's just plain sad! If I was Lon I would just laugh at you because you can't do anything to stop him other than complain on your little website here that nobody reads!
:beat: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: If every program was bad then why are there still thousands of them in business????? Thats right you losers can only point out a few programs most of which are closed. Where are the kids who were abused???? All I see on fornits is a handful of people who were in programs years and decades ago who never got over hating their parents. you weren't abused, but trying to create a forum here where you losers can convince each other you are right. That's why there is only like ten posters here! according to you all every kid in the world has been abused.
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But at least Lon isn't totally obsessed with what you post here like you are with him. I can see you losers refreshing Lon's website just waiting for your chance to quote him and tell fornits how much you disagree with him. Wow! you all are such losers it's just plain sad! If I was Lon I would just laugh at you because you can't do anything to stop him other than complain on your little website here that nobody reads!
:beat: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: If every program was bad then why are there still thousands of them in business????? Thats right you losers can only point out a few programs most of which are closed. Where are the kids who were abused???? All I see on fornits is a handful of people who were in programs years and decades ago who never got over hating their parents. you weren't abused, but trying to create a forum here where you losers can convince each other you are right. That's why there is only like ten posters here! according to you all every kid in the world has been abused.
Oh, hell yes I wait for Lon's latest musings. He gives us so much without intending to. Lon's postings are like Jan Moss at the GAO hearing, only we get fresh idiocy occasionally. The LULZ are sweet. Lon provides us with the best ammo against the TTI, I love the guy.
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The mental state of the teen isn't an issue, anyway. It's the financial state of the parents.
Has any program admissions salesman actually rejected a potential detainee based on whether they were "appropriate for their program?" And I mean rejected, not recommended the kid to a sister school within the same franchise.
Someone should ask Lon that. He used to be admissions.
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All I see on fornits is a handful of people who were in programs years and decades ago who never got over hating their parents. you weren't abused, but trying to create a forum here where you losers can convince each other you are right.
Now what is your reasoning for discrediting victims of abuse? Do you figure since you feel people on Fornits misrepresented Lon whoeverthehell that we are automatically lying about everything that we stand for? or are you just a true believer in the corrective healing of good ol "tough love"?
I think it speaks volumes about program supporters when you are compelled to post that immature, hostile and disgraceful shit on our forum. Really only paints your true colors for all to see and gives people a first hand look at the exact principals Lon Woodbury is passing on to you and the rest of your cult.
I'm sure he would be so proud of you.
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You people really live for this shit dont ya? I just want to know, when you call yourself a "survivor" can you keep from laughing? Maybe you have yourself convinced but when you tell people you are a "survivor" of a place most teens would love to go to you will get laughed at. thats why you come on fornits , to reinforce your ideas which dont hold up unless shouted again and again in your conspiratorial echo chamber. none of you will accomplish anything and in ten years programs will still exist andn everybody will be better because of it. maybe by then you can form a AA-like support group for "survivors" and then complete your circle of hypocricy, much to the delight of anybody with a sense of humor and not blinded by your own propoganda. please. not everybody buys into your emotionally charged bullshit that is almost all lies. you mix in a small portion of truth and expect people to believe you. well i dont. and neither do most people. but keep it up and keep trying to convince each other you are right, because its so funny to come here and read it! :deal:
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You people really live for this shit dont ya? I just want to know, when you call yourself a "survivor" can you keep from laughing? Maybe you have yourself convinced but when you tell people you are a "survivor" of a place most teens would love to go to you will get laughed at. thats why you come on fornits , to reinforce your ideas which dont hold up unless shouted again and again in your conspiratorial echo chamber. none of you will accomplish anything and in ten years programs will still exist andn everybody will be better because of it. maybe by then you can form a AA-like support group for "survivors" and then complete your circle of hypocricy, much to the delight of anybody with a sense of humor and not blinded by your own propoganda. please. not everybody buys into your emotionally charged bullshit that is almost all lies. you mix in a small portion of truth and expect people to believe you. well i dont. and neither do most people. but keep it up and keep trying to convince each other you are right, because its so funny to come here and read it! :deal:
Oh, lord, please dont them start on about AA...
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because its so funny to come here and read it!
Really? You don't sound like you are having very much fun. I hope that's not the case, though, because it would be a shame if you were just pretending to be happy for my sake.
There are actually some very funny things that are on TV that are much much funnier than this forum. Perhaps you should check out some of that fine programming? It's nice, because you don't have to write or anything.
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not everybody buys into your emotionally charged bullshit that is almost all lies. you mix in a small portion of truth and expect people to believe you. well i dont. and neither do most people.
I haven't met even one person who questioned the validity of my story... those who care enough to read it or talk to me about it. I have a feeling you have never bothered reading a personal experience. I don't buy into your facade, "based on results" its evident that your only intention for revisiting this forum is to make your "side of the fence" look like insensitive, immature, conservative nut-jobs. and for that I must thank you, You make us look good...lol
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not everybody buys into your emotionally charged bullshit that is almost all lies. you mix in a small portion of truth and expect people to believe you. well i dont. and neither do most people.
I haven't met even one person who questioned the validity of my story... those who care enough to read it or talk to me about it. I have a feeling you have never bothered reading a personal experience. I don't buy into your facade, "based on results" its evident that your only intention for revisiting this forum is to make your "side of the fence" look like insensitive, immature, conservative nut-jobs. and for that I must thank you, You make us look good...lol
I have to question the validity of your story. The first clue is in your own language. The word "story" suggests it's fiction, or at the very least contrived in a way to convince people programs are all bad. If you had said nobody questioned my "experience", or "testimony" it would of seemed more honest. Nobody here is talking politics so not sure what "conservative nut-job" has to do with anything, but you just alienated half of your audience showing your bias towards one political party.
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4/10
Look, we've dealt with some really good trolls over the years. Michael Muldoon's steady ridiculous trolls, Che alternating between "care" and "refuse to care" like a light switch, Milk with so much hatred he couldn't even fit it into one identity... and that's just the people on this side of the fence. On the other side we get Ottawa5, various ST twits, and that epic level troll TheWho.
By comparison, this bullshit falls flat after the first few times. You've got insanity enough, but when it comes to trolling, you're small potatoes. Seriously. Go to 4chan for a while and then come back with what you've learned.
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Looks like Lon realized his "troubled teen vs. struggling teen" essay made him look extremely stoopid and he pulled it down. Hi, Lon! I saw your post as "breaking news". You fool. The TTI is in a nosedive and you're going down screeching and clawing like a chickenshit weakling. No dignity, no shame.
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to be fair, it is still there. check the "essays" section
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to be fair, it is still there. check the "essays" section
Yeah, but look what he put up. A stopgap to cover the hole left when he hid the idiocy. I mean, come on. You didn't think he would TOTALLY remove it. His ego wouldn't allow it.
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Looks like Lon realized his "troubled teen vs. struggling teen" essay made him look extremely stoopid and he pulled it down.
He's done that with a few (or at least edited them). He knows we keep copies, though. He *does* read this site. That is known for an absolute fact. About a year ago NATSAP accidentally left one of it's google-groups open to the public, resulting in both embarrassment, and the posting of al the messages onto fornits. *very* soon afterwards, a message from Lon appeared on the google-group quoting the fornits page and informing them that they had been made. The group was made private after that and they booted me personally from the list shortly after (i had subscribed).
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not everybody buys into your emotionally charged bullshit that is almost all lies. you mix in a small portion of truth and expect people to believe you. well i dont. and neither do most people.
I haven't met even one person who questioned the validity of my story... those who care enough to read it or talk to me about it. I have a feeling you have never bothered reading a personal experience. I don't buy into your facade, "based on results" its evident that your only intention for revisiting this forum is to make your "side of the fence" look like insensitive, immature, conservative nut-jobs. and for that I must thank you, You make us look good...lol
I have to question the validity of your story. The first clue is in your own language. The word "story" suggests it's fiction, or at the very least contrived in a way to convince people programs are all bad. If you had said nobody questioned my "experience", or "testimony" it would of seemed more honest. Nobody here is talking politics so not sure what "conservative nut-job" has to do with anything, but you just alienated half of your audience showing your bias towards one political party.
How desperate to insult someone do you have to be, in order to question someone's lingo on the account of your assumptions of the word. Just a hint, next time if your entire argument is going to be about grammar, you should at least look up the words first.
First of all, a "story" by definition does not indicate either fiction or non-fiction, in fact in this case it is a written narration of my life, not just my experience at the program. I call my "narrated experience" a story because it is longer than an essay and shorter than a book or novel, this "story" is something I have actually written, and I was referring to its physical existence, it is not some fairytale you assume I just explain to anyone who will listen.
Second, when I said "conservative" I wasn't referring to the republican party, I was referring to the actual meaning of the word.
"Conservative: disposed to preserve existing conditions, institutions, etc., or to restore traditional ones, and to limit change"
and sense we were as you mention NOT speaking about politics, you should assume that I was using the word as it was meant to be used.
and just to be clear... when I said "nut-job", I meant that you are totally insane.
Here are the facts, If you support the Troubled Teen Industry then you are in support of the abuse and exploitation of children and teens. Futhermore if you find it appropriate to visit a site that was created for survivors of this abuse, and insist on insulting and verbally abusing us, then it can only be assumed that as a representative of those who support the work of Lon Woodbury, that you and everyone else who is involved with the torture, oppression and hatred of today's youth are nothing short of the most ignorant and immoral vile scum on the face of this this planet.
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Futhermore if you find it appropriate to visit a site that was created for survivors of this abuse
Are you talking about fornits? Because if you are, you are totally off base. Do you think fornits hurts programs? It doesn't. You know who it does hurt? The people you claim the site was created for, survivors. If you haven't realized that yet, you haven't been reading this forum long enough. If you don't believe me, PM one of the "leaders" of this forum and ask them what the purpose is and why it was created. They want program supporters to show up, it's the whole point.
you and everyone else who is involved with the torture, oppression and hatred of today's youth are nothing short of the most ignorant and immoral vile scum on the face of this this planet.
So much hate. You got to let that go if you are ever going to get on with your life. A study came out showing that optimistic people live longer than their cynical and angry counterparts. By holding onto all your hate, you are only hurting yourself... and definitely not any programs. Because by appearing to parents as hateful and calling people names it only makes you seem like the stereotypical troubled teen they already think you are. You just confirm their beliefs once again by acting this way.
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Do you think fornits hurts programs? It doesn't. You know who it does hurt? The people you claim the site was created for, survivors.
Funny because I do know exactly why this site was created. So that we (meaning survivors) would have a place to talk. No one is advertising this forum as a watch dog group out to "get" the program. Some of us are involved with the movement, but that isn't what this site is about. It never really was created with any specific purpose in mind let alone defaming anyone. This is just where we have all gathered, and we talk about what we please. If that for some reason gets you all hot and bothered you are welcome to leave anytime, and don't worry, we wont miss you.
So much hate.
ooooooh yea... I'm the hater lol... Do you mean the kind of hate that would compel someone to go to a website for survivors of abuse and talk trash to them?... At least when I hate, I use it in a constructive manner so that others may be spared to be put into the care of the likes of you. What good do you think your doing here exactly? Besides making the whole pro-program posse look like a bunch of bullies? Look, we aren't on the school yard anymore and I could honestly care less what some no named hypocrite thinks, so try to find a different hobby because trolling is obviously not your strong suit.
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Funny because I do know exactly why this site was created. So that we (meaning survivors) would have a place to talk.
Wrong again, but I'm sure you are used to repetitive failure by now, at this point in your life. I will tell you again, PM the owner of this forum and ask to confirm your explanation as to why fornits was created. Let me ask you this, if fornits was created as a place where so-called "survivors" would have a place to talk, why not put a password on it and only let survivors in? The reason is because you are completely wrong in thinking this site was created for you. It was created for anyone related or interested in the industry to come post. It is meant to be a place where intense arguments take place, by it's very design.
But hey, maybe if you stick around for another five years and post everyday, and psy finds better things to do, daily control of fornits will be bequeathed to you. Then you can run it however you want. Well, until the owner tells you , you can't. Go have fun with the search function confirming everything I've said. Or don't. I don't care one way or the other. I'm actually trying to save you the disappointment of finding this out the hard way, as so many here have. (who obviously aren't posting anymore and you don't know about).
No one is advertising this forum as a watch dog group out to "get" the program. Some of us are involved with the movement, but that isn't what this site is about.
"Movement?" :roflmao: You must be talking about the four websites that call themselves organizations but do almost nothing than fight with each other?
It never really was created with any specific purpose in mind let alone defaming anyone.
Wrong again. It was created with a very specific purpose in mind.
This is just where we have all gathered, and we talk about what we please.
You really have no idea what the fornits project is, do you? Fornits is not some random internet squat for "survivors". It was created with a purpose, as an experiment. I'm not going to get into the reasons here, because it's been discussed like a billion times already. What you might finally realize is fornits depends upon program supporters showing up and engaging in dialogue to work. While you want to widdle down fornits to the few "survivors" who do post here, the project is designed with the idea of open free for all exchange of ideas between all sides of the debate.
If that for some reason gets you all hot and bothered you are welcome to leave anytime, and don't worry, we wont miss you.
I'm not "hot and bothered", I'm helping you realize your assumptions about fornits are incorrect. You should be thanking me. That's why it sounds so funny when you use the term "we", so many different types of people post here. Who else besides yourself do you speak for? Did all the "survivors" elect you their leader to speak for them?
ooooooh yea... I'm the hater lol... Do you mean the kind of hate that would compel someone to go to a website for survivors of abuse and talk trash to them?...
Don't you get it yet? Here is yet another one of your arguments that rest on a faulty assumption. This is exactly why I am trying to educate you as to the real reason fornits exist. Fornits does not exist as a support group for "survivors". Fornits and the people who pay to host it would actually welcome the very individuals who "abused" you to hear their side of the story. They want them to show up. That is what fornits is about. Some of you have never seemed to figure that out, and cry out in desperation why anyone would bother survivors on their own site, which makes you appear ignorant at the very least.
At least when I hate, I use it in a constructive manner so that others may be spared to be put into the care of the likes of you.
More assumptions from you. The funny thing is you probably think you're right, and believe what you say. Which makes it all the more sad.
What good do you think your doing here exactly?
Hmm. Let me think about that one for a while. :roflmao:
(it's an internet discussion forum. what do you think people do here? )
Besides making the whole pro-program posse look like a bunch of bullies? Look, we aren't on the school yard anymore and I could honestly care less what some no named hypocrite thinks, so try to find a different hobby because trolling is obviously not your strong suit.
Well it seems like you do care since you take the time to respond, when you don't have to. If I was a "troll" then wouldn't my only goal to get people to respond? Which you did, which makes it funny for you to say I "am a bad troll". But "troll" is just what fornits posters labels you if your opinions don't match up with the group-think-lovin' "survivor" clique. So call me whatever you want, I really could care less. I really hope you take the time to learn what fornits is, and isn't, so you can stop making a fool of yourself when you make claims that are not even close to true.
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Essays
Posted: Feb 18, 2009
TROUBLED TEEN VS. STRUGGLING TEEN (http://http://www.strugglingteens.com/artman/publish/TroubledTeenStrugglingTeenES_090218.shtml)
By: Lon Woodbury
The terms Troubled Teen and Struggling Teen are frequently used interchangeably. I think that is an error because the connotations for each are different.
The term Troubled Teen is usually heard in the mental health field, most often referring to children with serious disorders and with serious problems that do not respond to normal family or society interventions. A bi-polar child or one who is severely depressed would be examples. These children seemed compelled by what in a previous age would have been called "demons." Something internal is driving the child to the extent that the child is unable to control it, and the child is unable to respond positively to external interventions like punishment, encouragement or discipline. The connotation is that the child needs treatment in order to lessen, control or eliminate these compulsions.
The term Struggling Teen has broader connotations. As we use it at Woodbury Reports, it can include a Troubled Teen with serious disorders but primarily includes teens who, for some reason or other, are floundering or failing in mainstream society and schools. These might include children floundering because of an undetected Learning Disability or Learning Difference. It might also include children that have an "entitled" mentality, or ones who internalized some criticism in the past and have lost all semblance of self confidence.
The Struggling Teen child might also appear to be "driven," but the cause is closer to being a gross misunderstanding of how the world works. The cause might not be traced to a serious diagnosis; but these Struggling Teen self-destructive behaviors, apparently throwing away their future, were of serious concern. Serious enough that residential placement was worth considering since they seem to be their own worse enemy.
I first learned of this difference when I was the Admissions Director for an Emotional Growth Boarding School in the 1980s. Many of the teens I was enrolling had been tearing their families apart and were engaging in serious self-destructive activities, thus the reasons the parents decided on residential placement. For many of these children, psychological evaluations had indicated they were more or less psychologically intact.
The most frequent manifestation was that they were emotionally immature for their age. The term often used at the time was "sixteen-years-old and going on four." That they seemed mature by demanding all the rights of an adult was misleading because they were reacting emotionally like a young child. For a child like this, treatment to a diagnosis was often ineffective, but emotional growth structure and experiences often were effective. In essence, what these children needed was to learn how to grow up.
It is important for a school, program, professional or parent to know the difference between a Troubled Teen and the broader implication of a Struggling Teen. Relying primarily on therapeutic treatment of a child whose primary trouble is a Learning or Immaturity problem is ineffective and sometimes can be harmful.
By the same token, emotional growth experiences for a Troubled Teen is ineffective and can be harmful, except when done in conjunction with professional treatment and therapy.
A good school or program will know the connotations of Troubled Teen and Struggling Teen and will act accordingly.
Copyright © 2009, Woodbury Reports, Inc.
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So basically you think that because the owners of this site elect to provide a forum that allows anonymous posting that they somehow hope that people will troll fornits for the lolz?....
Heres the thing, I would never oppose a pro-program poster here if they were just speaking their peace about the subject and I am most certainly a fan of a good debate, but the people who come here just to insult and offend people are really not welcome, they are only the cancer that has given this forum a somewhat unsavory reputation. I don't think Fornits was made for them. I do think it was a forum made by and for SURVIVORS but welcomes all others who have something to say about the program, even those who may have, at one time or another, been our abusers. I never said this was a support group or that the other side's opinion isn't welcome here, and believe me I am glad this forum isn't moderated. Honestly if it were, I don't think it would be half as interesting.
Besides, I wasn't even talking about Fornits, I was talking about you. About what kind of person seriously finds pleasure in insulting us the way you do. I'm just trying to wrap my mind around the kind of twisted personality you would have to have in order to (being from the other side of the fence as you may or may not be) log onto an obscure forum and post hateful things solely out of spite. Especially when you are aware that some of us have been through things you couldn't imagine. But even if that didn't matter to you, and you had no sympathy for anyone for any reason and your sole reason for being here was just to school us on how wrong we are about retarded random shit that has little relevance, what would be your reasoning to target people you know already have a history of being abused, oppressed and exploited. It's sickening to think that's how you get your jollies. To me that just spells out that there is something very very very sick about your personality and oddly enough is a very good reflection of how most of the people abusing kids in these facilities think and act.
So far your arguments fail to miss the point every time, either you go off on grammar or some general assumption or nit pick at one insignificant word that throws you into a fit about some obscure point that you argue to death. You avoid the topic every time, and argue about nothing instead. That's what distinguishes you as a troll instead of someone who would bring a different opinion to the topic. I'm not saying you have to be polite, but honestly I don't get what you think you are accomplishing here by being so hateful. If you think it gives credibility to the other camp's argument your sadly mistaken and if you think your going to make us change our minds your wasting your time. So I guess I just don't get you.
Then again, this kind of perverted fuckery could quite possibly be your intention... which is classic Che by the way.
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The Struggling Teen child might also appear to be "driven," but the cause is closer to being a gross misunderstanding of how the world works. The cause might not be traced to a serious diagnosis...
I for one would like to hear Lon Woodbury's understanding of how the world works. Don't be shy.