Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Straight, Inc. and Derivatives => Topic started by: Anonymous on February 09, 2009, 12:59:47 PM
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Will air its piece on AARC Feb 13th. Reruns will be throughout the week I am sure.
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Why would the Fifth Estate, or any other journalistic enterprise do a piece on AARC? According to the anonymous posters in this forum, everyone's paperwork has been triple checked and everybody's credentials are in order at AARC.
Additionally, parents who paid tens of thousand of dollars to a phys ed teacher to rehabillitate their children who had fallen prey to marijuana addiction, love AARC. I cannot imagine that any journalist would be able to cobble together an investigation of nothing. Bizarre.
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I was hoping nobody was going to mention this publicly until it was announced, but now that it is... Make sure to set your VCRs on record!
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Somebody please record this and put it on youtube or at least get a copy. I don't think I get any channel with CBC on it.
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Got it covered.
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Got it covered.
Thanks! I can't wait to see it.
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Why nothing on CBC site???
http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/ (http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/)
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There can't be an investigation into AARC, there's nothing to investigate. Dean Vause did not work in Miller Newton's cult. AARC uses a brand new mode of treatment completely unrelated to Kids, and thus Straight. Dean Vause is a licensed mental health professional. He obtained his PhD after completing a lengthy period of clinical research. The Clinical staff at AARC is composed of licensed mental health professionals, as is the Peer Staff. The Clients stay in host homes in which they are continually monitored by adults who have been vetted to ensure the safety of their adolescent charges. The treatment involves the most modern, scientifically proven methods. Clients in AARC are never deprived of their rights, and are free to communicate with their friends and family throughout their stay in AARC. There is not now, nor has there ever been a punishment phase in AARC called Zero Club in which other clients are given total control of Newcomers, monitoring them while they bathe and move their bowels.
AARC's expenditures are entirely in keeping with a facility that keeps 30-36 adolescents during the day.
Since the Peer Counselors are all trained professionals, there is no risk of the Peer Counselors inflicting harm upon their charges. Likewise, because AARC does not use the Oldcomer/Newcomer dynamic that was used in Straight and Kids, the potential for abuses by Oldcomers was avoided.
Sorry to disappoint.
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Sorry, I am convinced from recent reports that AARC is using the STRAIGHT INC methods. Host homes were used in STRAIGHT INC too. Didn't Vause come from KIDS?
I think you are feeding us some bull.
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Sorry, I am convinced from recent reports that AARC is using the STRAIGHT INC methods. Host homes were used in STRAIGHT INC too. Didn't Vause come from KIDS?
I think you are feeding us some bull.
Ajax is being sarcastic... lol.
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Very funny....that is the standard response. Not the same program......
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Does anyone know where I can get a copy of Recovering Krystal??
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Saw the ad last night, looks good.
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My heart beats fast now. I'm... scared:
Hello World, here is my soul and my greatest pain. Please don't destroy me.
Rachael
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Rachael
I am so proud of you. I am so grateful to you
I support you in every way and I think we would all stand up to anyone who tries to knock you down.
I will be watching tommorow and from what I know so far the risk you took was great
Thank you for speaking the truth and for standing up for yourself
Keep In touch over the next few days and if you need anything let us know, someone here will always help you, including myself
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My heart beats fast now. I'm... scared:
Hello World, here is my soul and my greatest pain. Please don't destroy me.
Rachael
AARC is not going to be happy about this piece. I'm crossing my fingers that many executive staff members have terminal heart attacks.
Ya did good. ;)
<3<3<3
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My heart beats fast now. I'm... scared:
Hello World, here is my soul and my greatest pain. Please don't destroy me.
Rachael
well duh or should i say 'doh' !! liars always feel a little sick to their stomach when they are about to see themselves tell a great big story that is VERY LIKELY libelous in nature on national TV . there will be many that will be able to see what is true and what is fabrication by attention seekers.
I have no doubt that the little show will eventually help AARC . . . . all the allegations will finally be put to the test!! so yes rachael you should be scared to see yourself lying on national TV
re: 'the executives' - are not a bunch of idiots .. but dream on
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a great big story that is VERY LIKELY libelous in nature on national TV
Bla bla bla. Bunch of whiners.
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My heart beats fast now. I'm... scared:
Hello World, here is my soul and my greatest pain. Please don't destroy me.
Rachael
racheal thank you
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I have no doubt that the little show will eventually help AARC . . . .
Cognitive dissonance at it's finest.
:peace: ::unhappy::
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My heart beats fast now. I'm... scared:
Hello World, here is my soul and my greatest pain. Please don't destroy me.
Rachael
now WHY would anyone telling the complete truth be "scared" . . .. hmmm
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a great big story that is VERY LIKELY libelous in nature on national TV
Bla bla bla. Bunch of whiners.
pot . . meet kettle
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I have no doubt that the little show will eventually help AARC . . . .
Cognitive dissonance at it's finest.
:peace: ::unhappy::
go back to psychology 101 and look that up again
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I don't think that is necessary.
Truth about AARC won't sit well with AARCOLYTE perceptions that the place is not only miraculous, but original and miraculous, so AARCOYLTE accepts negative info on cult as acceptable thinking it will eventually benefit said cult.
cognitive dissonance
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My heart beats fast now. I'm... scared:
Hello World, here is my soul and my greatest pain. Please don't destroy me.
Rachael
:soapbox:
oh pa'leez cut the drama, girl
and why would anyone be afraid if they are telling the truth??
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Man, it's always cool to see someone you know on tv. Cooler still when we'll be seeing you for the first time. I'd be scared too! Even just addressing that intimate audience in Bethesda a couple of years ago had me on auto pilot. I'm told I did alright but I honestly couldn't have told you the next day exactly what I had said.
You go girl! Totally awesome that this is happening. Many props to you for laying yourself on the line to get it done. :notworthy:
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My heart beats fast now. I'm... scared:
Hello World, here is my soul and my greatest pain. Please don't destroy me.
Rachael
:soapbox:
oh pa'leez cut the drama, girl
and why would anyone be afraid if they are telling the truth??
For the very simple reason that telling the truth for five months in AARC only set me back. That experience taught me that sometimes it does not matter how truthful and right you are - some creatures on this earth really only intend to hurt, use and abuse you.
I had been very happy keeping my distance from you lot, with my life intact. And this exposure of my life and struggles to the world, although necessary, is terrifying. And your very sympathetic response is indicative of what is to come. Clearly, I have reason to be nervous when malicious people such as yourself are so willing to attack.
However - I am ecstatic that finally, the truth will be heard. I have hope still that the decent Canadians who see this will be as outraged as I was to find that such a concentration camp exists in our free country. I believe that in the clear light of day, this abusive, illegal, and completely unethical institution will be seen for what it is. I have hope, I have faith, I trust. We'll see if that's well-founded in the coming days/weeks/hours.
Rachael
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Rachael
You do not have to explain yourself to anyone. We all know why this is scary and thier games at trying to cut you down are pathetic.
You are a beatiful strong person for going through this and owe no one anything, period.
Have a great Weekend and be well
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I just saw it on the CBC website...That was great, I hope AARC gets whats coming to them!!
It was great to see vause fumble his words while talking to Gillian out side of AARC...he was squirming.
All of you did an awesome job, you were a voice for the rest of us....good on you!!!!!
NOW thats honesty!!!
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Wow, I just watched the program on the Fifth Estate, and I found this post by Googling your name Rachael.
I'm just astounded and outraged that such a program could exist in Canada. I'm not going to try to convince you of what you already know, suffice to say that I support you Rachael 100% and you are a very brave, credible, rational and articulate woman. :notworthy: :notworthy:
The story has been submitted to Reddit.com, if you like you can vote for it to help this appalling injustice be exposed.
http://www.reddit.com/r/canada/comments ... umiliates/ (http://www.reddit.com/r/canada/comments/7xase/religious_drug_rehab_center_imprisons_humiliates/)
Much love from Montreal.
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Isn't it funny how, if AARC has nothing to hide, why have they now altered their website homepage with language trying to discredit any "critical stories".
I love you Google cache.
Compare their old homepage: http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:hdy ... =firefox-a (http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:hdyA3hz4ISYJ:www.aarc.ab.ca/+Alberta+Adolescent+Recovery+Centre&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=ca&client=firefox-a)
And their current one (they just updated it): http://www.aarc.ab.ca/index.php (http://www.aarc.ab.ca/index.php)
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Wow, I just watched the program on the Fifth Estate, and I found this post by Googling your name Rachael.
I'm just astounded and outraged that such a program could exist in Canada. I'm not going to try to convince you of what you already know, suffice to say that I support you Rachael 100% and you are a very brave, credible, rational and articulate woman. :notworthy: :notworthy:
The story has been submitted to Reddit.com, if you like you can vote for it to help this appalling injustice be exposed.
http://www.reddit.com/r/canada/comments ... umiliates/ (http://www.reddit.com/r/canada/comments/7xase/religious_drug_rehab_center_imprisons_humiliates/)
Much love from Montreal.
The title is accurate, except for the religious part (though that's debatable*). Cults don't have to be religious... but otherwise thanks for the link!
* Courts in the US have found AA to be a religion, so I suppose you could then argue that any AA based cults (or Synanon based cults) are religious in nature.
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Isn't it funny how, if AARC has nothing to hide, why have they now altered their website homepage with language trying to discredit any "critical stories".
I love you Google cache.
Compare their old homepage: http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:hdy ... =firefox-a (http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:hdyA3hz4ISYJ:www.aarc.ab.ca/+Alberta+Adolescent+Recovery+Centre&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=ca&client=firefox-a)
And their current one (they just updated it): http://www.aarc.ab.ca/index.php (http://www.aarc.ab.ca/index.php)
Thanks for the tip. I just took screenshots of both versions.
It's not at all unusual for programs to change their homepage after such reports. I wouldn't be surprised if they get a little more "specific" in the following weeks. Since they know no other way to defend then to attack others, I'm guessing that will take the form of slandering Rachael.
I haven't seen the report yet, but hope to ASAP. Is it available on the CBC website yet?
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Yes it’s very powerful. AARC will be closed momentarily. Rachael and all of the survivors are shockingly intelligent and...perfect
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Yes it’s very powerful. AARC will be closed momentarily. Rachael and all of the survivors are shockingly intelligent and...perfect
I'm showing it to the PFC parents too. They need to see this.
This documentary is... close to a tombstone for the entire Straight model, IMO.
There is an interview with Phil Elberg too and a lot of other extras on their website:
http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/2008-2009/power ... _kids.html (http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/2008-2009/powerless/phil_elberg_and_kids.html)
"one of the reasons it went on for so long because it was so crazy nobody would believe it" - Phil Elberg
Yup.
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Wow, I just watched the program on the Fifth Estate, and I found this post by Googling your name Rachael.
I'm just astounded and outraged that such a program could exist in Canada. I'm not going to try to convince you of what you already know, suffice to say that I support you Rachael 100% and you are a very brave, credible, rational and articulate woman. :notworthy: :notworthy:
The story has been submitted to Reddit.com, if you like you can vote for it to help this appalling injustice be exposed.
http://www.reddit.com/r/canada/comments ... umiliates/ (http://www.reddit.com/r/canada/comments/7xase/religious_drug_rehab_center_imprisons_humiliates/)
Much love from Montreal.
She is incredible. Racheal, you are ...an ideal person.
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AARC Treatment Records here:
http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/2008-2009/power ... ecords.pdf (http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/2008-2009/powerless/documents/aarc_treatment_records.pdf)
Mirrored is attached.
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Thank you Rachael. Thank you Simi. Thanks Bodanna, Christine, and Scott. Your courage to speak out on camera is impressive to the those of us who have yet to do so.
And thank you Fifth Estate for bringing some much needed critical light to AARC. It's almost 20 years since I was in Bergen County with the rest of the Canadian contingent (so strange to see us all flapping our arms on national television...), and it's absolutely amazing that AARC is still going strong. Hopefully this important piece signals a changing tide in the way Alberta tolerates and subsidizes abuse in the guise of help.
To those still under the spell, there is a better way.
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My favourite part of this program is seeing Dean's Hair Plugs and Face Lift! How "Humble" of you Dean! Did my families $50, 000 go towards that?
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Isn't it funny how, if AARC has nothing to hide, why have they now altered their website homepage with language trying to discredit any "critical stories".
I love you Google cache.
Compare their old homepage: http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:hdy ... =firefox-a (http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:hdyA3hz4ISYJ:www.aarc.ab.ca/+Alberta+Adolescent+Recovery+Centre&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=ca&client=firefox-a)
And their current one (they just updated it): http://www.aarc.ab.ca/index.php (http://www.aarc.ab.ca/index.php)
This is to be expected. Anyone who is attacked will try to defend themselves if they believe in their system and what they stand for, although I don’t think they will get nasty about it and start websites like “Rachaeltruth.com” or lower themselves to personal attacks on individuals. I expect they will take a more professional stand and try to tell their side and point out any discrepancies as they see it.
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The show could have gone hours longer.
What was missed:
The fact that families in AARC are required to fundraise, provide free labour, cut ties with anyone AARC sees as undesirable - including immediate family members.
The fact AARC aided accused murderers and allowed them to be around the client population then stonewalled the police in their attempts to investigat Cody Bates and Jason Woods. AARC put lives in jeopardy and is still reluctant to assist the Crown and Police.
Very few families are subsidized - if you have assests AARC requires you to borrow against or liquidate the, it is only once these assests are depleted do they provide any subsidy.
Parents are double dipped - not only do they pay the full shot, they must transport, feed, shelter and are liable for the children - sometimes as many as 6 or more children in there care. Can you imagine these costs day after day for a year or two?
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And the parents provide the food for holidays, prepare the food, serve the food, clean up afterwards.... and they need to purchase TICKETS to attend the mandatory event!!
In addition to this they must provide a raffle item, purchase raffle tickets... and are encouraged to give the prize away in the event that they win it!
Parents must also work at the center on the weekends providing labour with no compensation.
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AARC bleeds them to a blanched pulp -- financially as well as psychologically. When will people wake up?
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i would like to clear up a few misconceptions, probably a waste of my time but you never know
1) I would like to thank all of you for your concerns regarding fees, food, host homes, fund raising etc. It is nice to know that people care about my time and money. I can assure you that I, along with 99% of AARC graduate parents, would do the program again despite all these extra things. Please save your concerns for those who really want them. I have yet to meet a parent who would not put a 2nd kid into the program because of the extras.
2) The CBC documentary had a laughable assertion - that parents put non-addicted kids into the program because we have "issues" we can't handle. I can't even begin to think how to refute this as it is one of the dumbest assertions I have ever heard. My daughter's heart stopped because of a cocaine OD and she used two days later. That is a common story that the kids have coming into AARC. The reality is that if all parents knew the full extent of their kids abuses, we would need 100 AARCs in Canada.
3) Rachel, I am not certain if this was your intent, but the documentary seemed to imply that the rapists were directed by AARC to do this in order to teach you "powerlessness". I am completely stunned that anyone could actually believe this. We all know that you have suffered from psychosis but do you really think that Doc V and Mrs I ordered a rape? I am pretty sure this was a case of the CBC putting their slant on a story but this is how it came out.
4) The documentary says that normal programs offer a 30-40% success rate. We had our kid in AADAC until we found out that only 4% of their clients found sobriety. I would have loved to avoid the time and cost of AARC but it was the last resort. This actually brings up another point. The critics of AARC seem to focus on what they think are mistakes. I wish that there was an aspect of psychology that had 100% success in anything but that clearly isn't the case. Yeah, mistakes get made but the vast majority of families are helped.
I hope critics of AARC don't hold themselves to the same level of expectation that they hold AARC.
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i would like to clear up a few misconceptions, probably a waste of my time but you never know
1) I would like to thank all of you for your concerns regarding fees, food, host homes, fund raising etc. It is nice to know that people care about my time and money. I can assure you that I, along with 99% of AARC graduate parents, would do the program again despite all these extra things. Please save your concerns for those who really want them. I have yet to meet a parent who would not put a 2nd kid into the program because of the extras.
2) The CBC documentary had a laughable assertion - that parents put non-addicted kids into the program because we have "issues" we can't handle. I can't even begin to think how to refute this as it is one of the dumbest assertions I have ever heard. My daughter's heart stopped because of a cocaine OD and she used two days later. That is a common story that the kids have coming into AARC. The reality is that if all parents knew the full extent of their kids abuses, we would need 100 AARCs in Canada.
3) Rachel, I am not certain if this was your intent, but the documentary seemed to imply that the rapists were directed by AARC to do this in order to teach you "powerlessness". I am completely stunned that anyone could actually believe this. We all know that you have suffered from psychosis but do you really think that Doc V and Mrs I ordered a rape? I am pretty sure this was a case of the CBC putting their slant on a story but this is how it came out.
4) The documentary says that normal programs offer a 30-40% success rate. We had our kid in AADAC until we found out that only 4% of their clients found sobriety. I would have loved to avoid the time and cost of AARC but it was the last resort. This actually brings up another point. The critics of AARC seem to focus on what they think are mistakes. I wish that there was an aspect of psychology that had 100% success in anything but that clearly isn't the case. Yeah, mistakes get made but the vast majority of families are helped.
I hope critics of AARC don't hold themselves to the same level of expectation that they hold AARC.
Hmmm. I went through AARC many years ago. Of the group I was in, at least half are drinking, mostly without problems. One group member was clearly not addicted. He was 15, hardly used drugs and drank a couple times. He is now a successful business person. Several of my newcomers were under 16, only one or two had what I would consider a borderline problem with drugs or booze. They were clearly "behavioral" problems, but because they had experimented they were "level 3" and stayed, usually more than a year, mostly they took months to get Step 1 - why did they struggle? Hmmmmm. No addiction, no step 1.
I am active in AA in Calgary and have watched many graduates over the years. The relapse rate after one year of being out of AARC is staggering. What is more staggering is how spectacularly they fail. My guess is that less than 25% stay sober past 5 years. I wish AARC did work for kids who need treatment. I see the kids that are truely addicted usually relapse and keep going back to AARC for the same old treatment/cult speak. The kids who are not addicted lie and comply their way through, learn about drugs and crime then get into it heavily when finished.
I am grateful the fifth estate did such a good job. They tried desperately to get in and interview and film, but Dean Vause laid so many preconditions that could not be met they were locked out. No one was a bigger supporter than me, now I am hugely disappointed in what AARC has become.
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This is to be expected. Anyone who is attacked will try to defend themselves if they believe in their system and what they stand for, although I don’t think they will get nasty about it and start websites like “Rachaeltruth.com” or lower themselves to personal attacks on individuals. I expect they will take a more professional stand and try to tell their side and point out any discrepancies as they see it.
AARColytes have already personally attacked Rachel in this forum within the past couple of days and going back to her early posts here. Vause attacked her and Simi and others on the hidden camera interview calling them all liars.
What color is the sky in your world?
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i would like to clear up a few misconceptions, probably a waste of my time but you never know
1) I would like to thank all of you for your concerns regarding fees, food, host homes, fund raising etc. It is nice to know that people care about my time and money. I can assure you that I, along with 99% of AARC graduate parents, would do the program again despite all these extra things. Please save your concerns for those who really want them. I have yet to meet a parent who would not put a 2nd kid into the program because of the extras.
Wow, you REALLY believe every shred of what they teach you in the meetings! You have no idea the numbers of parents out there who wouldn't touch this treatment!
Not to mention the graduate parents who have other children with alcohol/drug problems who can not put the sibling into treatment because they can NO LONGER AFFORD IT! AARC milked them dry with the first child!
2) The CBC documentary had a laughable assertion - that parents put non-addicted kids into the program because we have "issues" we can't handle. I can't even begin to think how to refute this as it is one of the dumbest assertions I have ever heard. My daughter's heart stopped because of a cocaine OD and she used two days later. That is a common story that the kids have coming into AARC. The reality is that if all parents knew the full extent of their kids abuses, we would need 100 AARCs in Canada.
I'm very sorry for your daughter and your whole family due to the effects of drugs. The saddest part is AARC is not capable of handling people with TRUE addiction problems! A child goes into a host home with other clients their first night of treatment no matter how sick they are while withdrawing from a drug! Withdrawl from some drugs can KILL you if not properly medically supervised.
AARC DOES take clients who are not drug addicts. Some are accepted due to mental health issues and behavioural issues and this is a FACT!
3) Rachel, I am not certain if this was your intent, but the documentary seemed to imply that the rapists were directed by AARC to do this in order to teach you "powerlessness". I am completely stunned that anyone could actually believe this. We all know that you have suffered from psychosis but do you really think that Doc V and Mrs I ordered a rape? I am pretty sure this was a case of the CBC putting their slant on a story but this is how it came out.
I swear I could reach through this monitor and strangle you right now!
The girl was RAPED!!! And you're worried about whether people will think the center and or Dean Vause ORDERED this rape??? How about the fact that there is so little supervision and accountability and the fact that TROUBLED YOUTH are being put in charge of TROUBLED YOUTH so something like this could happen in the first place!!!
You, seriously are a piece of work!
4) The documentary says that normal programs offer a 30-40% success rate. We had our kid in AADAC until we found out that only 4% of their clients found sobriety. I would have loved to avoid the time and cost of AARC but it was the last resort. This actually brings up another point. The critics of AARC seem to focus on what they think are mistakes. I wish that there was an aspect of psychology that had 100% success in anything but that clearly isn't the case. Yeah, mistakes get made but the vast majority of families are helped.
Psychology is generally performed by Psychologists, not troubled kids in a unlicensed facility.
I hope critics of AARC don't hold themselves to the same level of expectation that they hold AARC.
Critics hold AARC to the level of expectation as all the other flawed behaviour modification programs out there with synanon roots and AARC has not let us down!
:trophy: :trophy: :trophy: :trophy: :trophy: :trophy: :trophy: :trophy: :trophy: :trophy: :trophy: :trophy: :trophy:
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i would like to clear up a few misconceptions, probably a waste of my time but you never know
1) I would like to thank all of you for your concerns regarding fees, food, host homes, fund raising etc. It is nice to know that people care about my time and money. I can assure you that I, along with 99% of AARC graduate parents, would do the program again despite all these extra things. Please save your concerns for those who really want them. I have yet to meet a parent who would not put a 2nd kid into the program because of the extras.
Well you're obviously not looking very hard. I'd like to see some evidence of your 99% claim. Simply saying it doesn't make it true, in fact it makes your story lose credibility.
2) The CBC documentary had a laughable assertion - that parents put non-addicted kids into the program because we have "issues" we can't handle. I can't even begin to think how to refute this as it is one of the dumbest assertions I have ever heard. My daughter's heart stopped because of a cocaine OD and she used two days later. That is a common story that the kids have coming into AARC. The reality is that if all parents knew the full extent of their kids abuses, we would need 100 AARCs in Canada.
Again you're back to spouting unsupported superlatives and anecdotal stories. If you only knew how many terrible parents are out there who are eager to sign away their kids because they're too preoccupied with their social life or work, you'd need 100 AARC's for parents. (See I can make unsupported claims too!) Edit: Bolded is sarcasm for those who didn't get it
3) Rachel, I am not certain if this was your intent, but the documentary seemed to imply that the rapists were directed by AARC to do this in order to teach you "powerlessness". I am completely stunned that anyone could actually believe this. We all know that you have suffered from psychosis but do you really think that Doc V and Mrs I ordered a rape? I am pretty sure this was a case of the CBC putting their slant on a story but this is how it came out.
Nobody claimed that they ordered the rape, but the fact that someone defending AARC would jump to that conclusion is troubling (if you're getting defensive about something that was never claimed, maybe it was ordered?). As far as I'm concerned, presiding over and not investigating claims of rape and abuse is just as bad as ordering it. Also, the fact that you use the same tactics as AARC to discredit Rachael saying she "suffered from psychosis" - as if that means for the rest of her life anything she says should be discounted - makes you again lose all kinds of credibility. You're not doing a very good job of convincing.
4) The documentary says that normal programs offer a 30-40% success rate. We had our kid in AADAC until we found out that only 4% of their clients found sobriety. I would have loved to avoid the time and cost of AARC but it was the last resort. This actually brings up another point. The critics of AARC seem to focus on what they think are mistakes. I wish that there was an aspect of psychology that had 100% success in anything but that clearly isn't the case. Yeah, mistakes get made but the vast majority of families are helped.
Actually the documentary says that the normal programs claim 30-40% success rates. AARC merely claims an 80% success rate, with no independent verification. See: http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/2008-2009/power ... study.html (http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/2008-2009/powerless/aarc_study.html)
Once again you make claims that are not backed up by anything. There's no independently verified evidence that the majority of families are helped, nor do you explain what your measure of "help" is. And why shouldn't people focus on the mistakes of AARC? They seem to be making enough of them.
The fact that you imply what they do is an "aspect of psychology" is also bewildering. What goes on at AARC is entirely at odds with every psychological school of thought. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ps ... al_schools (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_psychological_schools)
I hope critics of AARC don't hold themselves to the same level of expectation that they hold AARC.
It wouldn't be very hard, it's only common sense. If only parents out there weren't so willing to ship their kids away for their own selfish convenience, or because they were duped by a smooth talking con man. If you're really a parent and not just an AARC shill (which I doubt), then I feel sorry for you because I know it's hard as an adult to admit to making mistakes, but I would urge you to take a look at independently verified evidence - don't take the claims of anyone at face value, especially when they're too good to be true.
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If only parents out there weren't so willing to ship their kids away for their own selfish convenience
Ah, You blew your credibility and your whole argument out of the water with that last statement. You obviously don’t understand any of this, especially regarding the parents with a child in trouble. If you ever took the time to speak to any parents of children in programs randomly (regardless whether the parents are for or against programs) you would know their decision was never one of convenience.
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If only parents out there weren't so willing to ship their kids away for their own selfish convenience
Ah, You blew your credibility and your whole argument out of the water with that last statement. You obviously don’t understand any of this, especially regarding the parents with a child in trouble. If you ever took the time to speak to any parents of children in programs randomly (regardless whether the parents are for or against programs) you would know their decision was never one of convenience.
Of course the parents would claim that the decision is not out of convenience, therefore you're right, they would tell me it wasn't. That doesn't mean that convenience doesn't factor into the decision making process of the parent, (as it should, convenience is important to everyone). Speaking of convenience, you conveniently left out the rest of my sentence. If you combine the convenience aspect with a smooth and coercive salesperson, you get a dangerous combination. Hey, we're sending our kid to the BEST rehab center (80% success rate!), and on top of it there's the unspoken benefit of not having to deal with a problematic teen. The problem is of course, the claims of the rehab center are exaggerated and the parents don't investigate the claims thoroughly because it all seems like such a perfect solution.
And don't tell me I don't understand parents with "troubled" children, you don't know me, but I won't bore you with emotional and anecdotal evidence that would be thrown out in any scientific study. I have little respect for parents who put their kids in these programs and then when confronted with the evidence of the abuses by these programs STILL deny that there's anything wrong here.
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Of course the parents would claim that the decision is not out of convenience, therefore you're right, they would tell me it wasn't.
So you don’t believe they are telling the truth or that they just don’t understand. So when survivors claim that the program didn’t help them or that they have succeeded in life "in spite" of the program this can be taken as not true also? Kind of a denial maybe on the survivors part? How about a survivor posting here that they were abused in a program, could we conclude that knowing that fornits is a very anti program site that kids wouldn’t say anything positive here? Maybe tell us a story (make claims) out of convenience or to fit in (we all know fitting in is important as well as convienience)? We certainly know success stories or pro program stories would not be received or believed as easily as negative ones and writing one would certainly insure that the survivor would not fit in. How would coming and reading here on fornits sway a posters initial post? Should we still beleive these Claims? (as you put it)
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Well you're obviously not looking very hard. I'd like to see some evidence of your 99% claim. Simply saying it doesn't make it true, in fact it makes your story lose credibility.
Every parent that went through treatment with me would do it again, gladly. My personal experience is 100%, not 99%
Again you're back to spouting unsupported superlatives and anecdotal stories. If you only knew how many terrible parents are out there who are eager to sign away their kids because they're too preoccupied with their social life or work, you'd need 100 AARC's for parents. (See I can make unsupported claims too!)
the vast majority of parents who look into AARC decide against it because of the time commitments. The ones who are there decided that it was worth whatever we had to do. You obviously are not intimately aware of what is involved if you think we put our kids there in order to get more free time for our social lives.
Nobody claimed that they ordered the rape, but the fact that someone defending AARC would jump to that conclusion is troubling (if you're getting defensive about something that was never claimed, maybe it was ordered?). As far as I'm concerned, presiding over and not investigating claims of rape and abuse is just as bad as ordering it. Also, the fact that you use the same tactics as AARC to discredit Rachael saying she "suffered from psychosis" - as if that means for the rest of her life anything she says should be discounted - makes you again lose all kinds of credibility. You're not doing a very good job of convincing.
Actually, CBC strongly implied that it was ordered by the staff. They allowed Rachel to claim it was done to teach her "powerlessness". Who else would be in charge of teaching her "powerlessness"? This part of the documentary is grounds for a very large legal suite.
The reality is that any workplace has the possibility of a rape occurring, including CBC's HQ, my office, and wherever you work. I have never claimed it didn't happen but it is a huge stretch to assert that it was ordered by AARC staff to teach her "powerlessness"
Actually the documentary says that the normal programs claim 30-40% success rates. AARC merely claims an 80% success rate, with no independent verification. See: http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/2008-2009/power ... study.html (http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/2008-2009/powerless/aarc_study.html)
Once again you make claims that are not backed up by anything. There's no independently verified evidence that the majority of families are helped, nor do you explain what your measure of "help" is. And why shouldn't people focus on the mistakes of AARC? They seem to be making enough of them.
AARC has had there success measured by a US firm interested in addiction recovery. It is the only factual survey. I guess this does not have the same validity as your assertions on an internet forum but it will have to do.
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Speaking of convenience, you conveniently left out the rest of my sentence. If you combine the convenience aspect with a smooth and coercive salesperson, you get a dangerous combination..
I never met Doc V until my first Tuesday parent rap. Never heard him speak, never heard his claims.
We put our daughter there because my niece was pulled off the streets doing meth. She graduated and it was her recovery that got us there. No salesman involved, just another success story, something you seem unwilling to recognize.
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Of course the parents would claim that the decision is not out of convenience, therefore you're right, they would tell me it wasn't.
So you don’t believe they are telling the truth or that they just don’t understand. So when survivors claim that the program didn’t help them or that they have succeeded in life "in spite" of the program this can be taken as not true also? Kind of a denial maybe on the survivors part? How about a survivor posting here that they were abused in a program, could we conclude that knowing that fornits is a very anti program site that kids wouldn’t say anything positive here? Maybe tell us a story (make claims) out of convenience or to fit in (we all know fitting in is important as well as convienience)? We certainly know success stories or pro program stories would not be received or believed as easily as negative ones and writing one would certainly insure that the survivor would not fit in. How would coming and reading here on fornits sway a posters initial post? Should we still beleive these Claims? (as you put it)
I agree with you, in general we should be skeptical of anyone's single claims. What we should be looking for is evidence. Thankfully, the CBC piece had plenty of evidence to back up its arguments. The factual evidence shows that there's a government subsidized treatment program designed by someone with questionable credentials, administered by people who are thoroughly unqualified, and none of it is based on normal medicinal standards. In fact the system is based on proven flawed systems of the past. The facts also show that AARC make unfounded claims about their success rates, that are not independently verified. One look at their treatment records demonstrates how far AARC strays from professional medicinal/psychological standards. That is all indisputable evidence based on facts. This alone is troubling. On top of it all, there's multiple credible allegations of misdiagnosis, abuse, and coercive practices.
If you're interested in analyzing why people make the claims they do, it can be productive, but it is all secondary to the problems that are proven. A survivor being critical of AARC in order to fit in on a web forum? Doesn't seem very logical. A parent and child both not wanting to relive a traumatic past phase by rocking the boat and opening up about prior abuse or bad decisions? Seems more logical. Posting on a web forum is optional, your family situation is not optional.
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That last post was me - forgot to login.
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the vast majority of parents who look into AARC decide against it because of the time commitments. The ones who are there decided that it was worth whatever we had to do. You obviously are not intimately aware of what is involved if you think we put our kids there in order to get more free time for our social lives.
Well you certainly seem intimately aware of why or why not parents decide against joining AARC. Tell me, are you an AARC employee?
Actually, CBC strongly implied that it was ordered by the staff. They allowed Rachel to claim it was done to teach her "powerlessness". Who else would be in charge of teaching her "powerlessness"? This part of the documentary is grounds for a very large legal suite.
The reality is that any workplace has the possibility of a rape occurring, including CBC's HQ, my office, and wherever you work. I have never claimed it didn't happen but it is a huge stretch to assert that it was ordered by AARC staff to teach her "powerlessness"
I wasn't claiming it happened, I was being facetious. I don't believe they ordered it. However they did provide an environment where it was allowed to happen. And is it so hard to believe that, in a program that highlights being powerless as a therapy technique, that the rapist (acting alone or not) would also use such language?
AARC has had there success measured by a US firm interested in addiction recovery. It is the only factual survey. I guess this does not have the same validity as your assertions on an internet forum but it will have to do.
Right, but the numbers that were analyzed by this other firm came directly from AARC instead of being collected by the firm. This does not sound very independent.
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Speaking of convenience, you conveniently left out the rest of my sentence. If you combine the convenience aspect with a smooth and coercive salesperson, you get a dangerous combination..
I never met Doc V until my first Tuesday parent rap. Never heard him speak, never heard his claims.
We put our daughter there because my niece was pulled off the streets doing meth. She graduated and it was her recovery that got us there. No salesman involved, just another success story, something you seem unwilling to recognize.
You put your daughter there, because your niece was doing meth? So your daughter wasn't even doing drugs? And on top of it you didn't even bother to talk to the head of the program who personally conducts many therapy sessions? You sound very irresponsible.
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If you're interested in analyzing why people make the claims they do, it can be productive, but it is all secondary to the problems that are proven. A survivor being critical of AARC in order to fit in on a web forum? Doesn't seem very logical. A parent and child both not wanting to relive a traumatic past phase by rocking the boat and opening up about prior abuse or bad decisions? Seems more logical. Posting on a web forum is optional, your family situation is not optional.
If you are out to get someone you are not apt to be fair about your reports or if you have an agenda. You read about someone who thought the program helped them and you get:
….” Well I can see how the program would be tough for some kids if they didn’t fit in or didn’t want to do the work….. But for me the program really taught me how to deal with my emotions…”A typical antiprogram report may sound like: …..”we were abused 24/7, all the counselors were power hungry, the food was awful, they forced us to work in the kitchen…” which leaves the reader with overwhelming feeling that they are not getting the whole picture from this poster. The poster obviously has an axe to grind and is only willing to reveal the parts which are damaging to the program, where the poster with the positive experience is willing to share the good and the bad with the readers. This plays itself out over and over here on fornits. So the neutral reader is compelled to believe the poster who is willing to share the good and bad aspects of the program, because he/she has no agenda.
The average reader knows that even in the most difficult circumstances that there are positive experiences and the only reason to withhold this part of the story is because the poster is looking to make the program look as bad as possible.
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The problem is of course, the claims of the rehab center are exaggerated and the parents don't investigate the claims thoroughly because it all seems like such a perfect solution.
It's a claim that seems too good to be true, and parents rarely want to hear it *is*. Some are desperate, yes... some do it out of cruelty or convenience, yes... but almost all end up *believing* that their kids would have been dead without the program. Imagine you enroll your kid in AARC only to hear he/she is a "level 4 addict". Scary, yes?
It's all marketing based on exaggerated fear and promise to "save"... provided you do exactly as they say.
"you are broken, only faith can heal you, just do everything I tell you to do" - Maynard James Keenan - Tool - Opiate
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Speaking of convenience, you conveniently left out the rest of my sentence. If you combine the convenience aspect with a smooth and coercive salesperson, you get a dangerous combination..
I never met Doc V until my first Tuesday parent rap. Never heard him speak, never heard his claims.
We put our daughter there because my niece was pulled off the streets doing meth. She graduated and it was her recovery that got us there. No salesman involved, just another success story, something you seem unwilling to recognize.
You put your daughter there, because your niece was doing meth? So your daughter wasn't even doing drugs?
This happened a lot at KIDS (AARC predecessor), if you watched the Phil Elberg interview... Of course the kids all *confess* to doing drugs or being "addicts" under duress, so to the parents it seems as if they made a necessary decision.
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You put your daughter there, because your niece was doing meth? So your daughter wasn't even doing drugs? And on top of it you didn't even bother to talk to the head of the program who personally conducts many therapy sessions? You sound very irresponsible.
I don't even know why I am bothering to reply because you are not going to listen but..
If you read my posts (there are only a couple), you will see that I put my daughter in there because of her cocaine addiction. This addiction wasn't some fabrication made up by AARC, this was the result of a police visit and her going to a Doctor for her heart issues. When you argue against someone else's personal experience, it really does show your bias. I think I have a better grip on my and my daughters history than you.
We saw AARC as a solution when all other cheaper, easier efforts proved wildly unsuccessful. We knew about AARC because my niece went through the program a year earlier and is now sober despite an extreme addiction to meth.
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Guest.
Did you find the CBC report disturbing? Why?
Do you feel those people who are making the accusations against AARC are lying?
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Guest.
Did you find the CBC report disturbing? Why?
Do you feel those people who are making the accusations against AARC are lying?
I did find it disturbing for a couple of reasons
1) it implied that AARC parents are there because we have some minor issues with our kids, not because of their addictions. This is absurd and if you believe it then I am truly wasting my time
2) it implied that sexual assault is looked at favourably within AARC.
3) it allowed Rachel to make a claim that is impossible to prove wrong. It took the word of a person with acknowledged drug induced psychosis and allowed her a forum to make claims which cannot be proven true or false. You haters will always believe her, those of us who have experienced the love and dedication of the staff will never believe her. Unless you have a shred of evidence, you don't make these types of claims 5 - 6 years later. I just hope this doesn't happen to you.
I had a friend falsely accused of molesting his daughter and it almost destroyed him. His wife eventually admitted it but the damage was long done. I have a friend whose ex-wife accused him of assault. He was arrested and was released when he produced expense reciepts showing he was in Australia when the alleged assault occurred. It cost him thousands in legal fees. He was lucky that his ex wife didn't know he was gone that week or he would have been found guilty
Do I believe they are lying
I think the claims may be true to them but may not be factual. I don't think it happened but the reality is that a rape can occur at any job site, including yours, mine, and the CBC HQ. No place is immune and I see nothing in the design or culture of AARC that would encourage rape.
For those who don't know how AARC works, any kid can walk away after they reach step 4. The claims of both girls occurred after this point and I find it hard to believe they would have stayed if the events happened. At step 4, you are fully in contact with your parents yet neither set of parents pulled their kid out of AARC. The parents obvioulsy were not aware or didn't believe them either.
The lady who says she was wrongly sent to KIDS stayed there for her whole treatment and then worked at AARC for 2 years. This doesn't seem like anyone forced her into anything.
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First of all, "drug induced psychosis" is not entierly accurate. It's not a permanant condition. When somebody is having an LSD trip, they have "drug induced psychosis". Key phrase here being "drug induced". Also, If you remember in the program, it also said a later independent evaluation said that she did *not* have a drug problem. Just because a person tried LSD and had a bad trip does not mean they are somehow crazy for life or inherently prone to make stuff up.
I know Rachael quite well. She has never lied to me and I've heard about her experiences in AARC in far greater detail than set forth in her interviews. I believe her. The CBC believed her. And with libel/slander being a criminal matter in Canada, I have no doubt the CBC verified her claims well. I have no reason to question her, especially when her story is so similar to that of others.
As to not seeing anything in the culture of AARC that might encourage rape... What about the doctrine of powerlessness and the fact that oldcomers have absolute control and power over newcomers? Have you never heard of the Stanford prison experiment?
Also, if I recall correctly, I don't think she made it to level four. Even if she did, consider that there are circumstances where parents are... batshit crazy, for lack of a better term. Some parents believe that if a girl was raped, she must have done something to deserve it. In those cases, it's not much good to tell a parent. Who does a kid turn to in these situations? What if a kid *has* cried "wolf" in the past but is telling the truth *this* time? Allegations of abuse or rape should *never* go ignored.
About the girl who was sent to kids... You obviously don't know much about cults, do you? Might I suggest watching the film "over the GW' which is about KIDS of Bergen County.
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Guest.
Did you find the CBC report disturbing? Why?
Do you feel those people who are making the accusations against AARC are lying?
I did find it disturbing for a couple of reasons
1) it implied that AARC parents are there because we have some minor issues with our kids, not because of their addictions. This is absurd and if you believe it then I am truly wasting my time
2) it implied that sexual assault is looked at favourably within AARC.
3) it allowed Rachel to make a claim that is impossible to prove wrong. It took the word of a person with acknowledged drug induced psychosis and allowed her a forum to make claims which cannot be proven true or false. You haters will always believe her, those of us who have experienced the love and dedication of the staff will never believe her. Unless you have a shred of evidence, you don't make these types of claims 5 - 6 years later. I just hope this doesn't happen to you.
I had a friend falsely accused of molesting his daughter and it almost destroyed him. His wife eventually admitted it but the damage was long done. I have a friend whose ex-wife accused him of assault. He was arrested and was released when he produced expense reciepts showing he was in Australia when the alleged assault occurred. It cost him thousands in legal fees. He was lucky that his ex wife didn't know he was gone that week or he would have been found guilty
Do I believe they are lying
I think the claims may be true to them but may not be factual. I don't think it happened but the reality is that a rape can occur at any job site, including yours, mine, and the CBC HQ. No place is immune and I see nothing in the design or culture of AARC that would encourage rape.
For those who don't know how AARC works, any kid can walk away after they reach step 4. The claims of both girls occurred after this point and I find it hard to believe they would have stayed if the events happened. At step 4, you are fully in contact with your parents yet neither set of parents pulled their kid out of AARC. The parents obvioulsy were not aware or didn't believe them either.
The lady who says she was wrongly sent to KIDS stayed there for her whole treatment and then worked at AARC for 2 years. This doesn't seem like anyone forced her into anything.
"AN acknowledged drug induced psychosis"? She had a bad reaction to acid.
Are you saying that anyone who has ever done acid have their sworn testimony automatically discounted and ignored by journalists, prosecuting and protective goverment bodies, and society in general ?
Do you also feel your daughter, should she claim she was raped, should have her claim ignored by the media, by police and protective bodies , and society at large?
You sicken me
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"AN acknowledged drug induced psychosis"? She had a bad reaction to acid.
Are you saying that anyone who has ever done acid have their sworn testimony automatically discounted and ignored by journalists, prosecuting and protective goverment bodies, and society in general ?
Do you also feel your daughter, should she claim she was raped, should have her claim ignored by the media, by police and protective bodies , and society at large?
You sicken me
See... But they hold it as a matter of dogma that all "druggies" are automatically liars. They really believe this shit. Just something to think about.
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1) it implied that AARC parents are there because we have some minor issues with our kids, not because of their addictions. This is absurd and if you believe it then I am truly wasting my time.
I'm sure it's a very mixed bag, like KIDS of Bergen County. Regardless of their problems, though, what is practiced at AARC is not any legitimate sort of treatment. It's thought reform. It produces very convincing temporary results, but the long term results (as one AA commentator noted) are disastrous.
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I'd say forcing teenagers who are supposedly so drug addicted they cannot be permitted to remain at large to serve as prison guards for other teenagers creates a climate where rape is encouraged.
Why don't you pull your head out of DV's ass and ask a clinical psychiatrist if he's ever heard of psychiatric institution where the patients were given control over other patients.
That policy is absolute madness. It ALWAYS generates abusive relationships, if not outright rape. Forcing adolescents to assume physical and psychological control and dominion over another adolescent is forcing adolescents into abusive relationships.
An adolescent shouldn’t be involved in deciding whether another is “honest” about their drug use, he shouldn’t decide what “level” of freedom another “deserves,” he shouldn’t be restraining him or otherwise standing guard over him.
What part of your brain fell out so that you can’t understand that? I feel sorry for your kid and hope she survives you
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3) it allowed Rachel to make a claim that is impossible to prove wrong. It took the word of a person with acknowledged drug induced psychosis and allowed her a forum to make claims which cannot be proven true or false. You haters will always believe her, those of us who have experienced the love and dedication of the staff will never believe her. Unless you have a shred of evidence, you don't make these types of claims 5 - 6 years later.
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But how could Rachael do anything else BUT make this claim 5-6 years later? She lacked any opportunity to contact the authorities sooner. AARC does not allow captives to contact the outside world to report rape, remember?
You and the AARC condone and create a situation where captives are incapable of reporting abuse, and then state their claims of abuse are lies because they did not report them?
After Racheal escaped she was in a position where her continued freedom was dependent on "not making waves." Reporting a rape would involve making waves and provoke possible re-incarceration or other abusive reaction from her parents.
The other girl who was abused was in the same situation as Rachael, but her sexual abuse was enabled in a more proactive way--she was forced to sign a retraction of her original complaint to DV. There is NO way within the clutches of the AARC to report or object to abuse.Do you not see that? Do you think that's fair?
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Somebody please record this and put it on youtube or at least get a copy. I don't think I get any channel with CBC on it.
If you want to make sure this gets out across Canada and gets immortalized into the public consciousness, then digitalize it and put it on Pirate Bay or another torrent site.
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Somebody please record this and put it on youtube or at least get a copy. I don't think I get any channel with CBC on it.
If you want to make sure this gets out across Canada and gets immortalized into the public consciousness, then digitalize it and put it on Pirate Bay or another torrent site.
This is being worked on (I'm getting a copy). For now, i suggest linking to the article.
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The lady who says she was wrongly sent to KIDS stayed there for her whole treatment and then worked at AARC for 2 years. This doesn't seem like anyone forced her into anything.
I guess you're not familiar with the coercive tactics used.
Then again you wouldn't be, because the whole point of effective brainwashing is to keep the victim completely unaware of the fact they're being brainwashed.
I guess all those people who drank the koolaid and died weren't "forced" into anything either. I'm sure if any one of them were asked if they were brainwashed they would have said no.
It was also claimed that clients can freely walk away on level 4? How about the one on one sessions that happen when a client turns 18 and could walk away? They sit down to a one on one that doesn't end until the client has "agreed" to stay for their own recovery! Or how about the clients who are "Tricked" into staying because they've signed paperwork committing themselves thinking they were actually signing something else! Of course this is just a troubled kid who obviously doesn't KNOW this tactic is completely illegal. Of course AARC isn't going to TELL them that! All they believe is they are now screwed and have to stay because they've signed the paperwork!
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For those who don't know how AARC works, any kid can walk away after they reach step 4. The claims of both girls occurred after this point and I find it hard to believe they would have stayed if the events happened. At step 4, you are fully in contact with your parents yet neither set of parents pulled their kid out of AARC. The parents obvioulsy were not aware or didn't believe them either.
The lady who says she was wrongly sent to KIDS stayed there for her whole treatment and then worked at AARC for 2 years. This doesn't seem like anyone forced her into anything.
Walk away to what? Most clients comply, learn to cry on cue and lie if they don't have enough "past incidents" in order to not get the emotional shit kicked out of them in rap. If they leave, often their family will turn their back on them as per AARC's instruction. They continue to go to Open Meeting and Tuesday night raps to tell other parents how aweful it is when their child abandons reason and leaves AARC to go die on the streets or in jail.
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If they leave, often their family will turn their back on them as per AARC's instruction. They continue to go to Open Meeting and Tuesday night raps to tell other parents how aweful it is when their child abandons reason and leaves AARC to go die on the streets or in jail.
So basically the program accomplishes the feat of setting the kid up to die on the streets and then manages to convince the parents it's the kids' fault. Same in the program I was in. It the kids don't graduate, they tell the parents never to let the kids back or even provide them with any type of support (while doing other stuff such as taking away property, money, ID, etc...).
So many programs operate in such a similar manner.
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For the record: In the five months I was in AARC I never progressed past Step 1 as I was incapable of "acknowledging I was powerless over alcohol and that my life had become unmanagable". It's really hard to accept so completely something that is fundamentally untrue.
Also, after I was raped I tried to get to see a doctor - I was taken to Stanhope and staff would not leave the room while I was there. The doctor's report says I was there for: "female problems". Ironic eh? Wouldn't you think rape is more of a male problem?
Rachael
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Ahh Dr. Stanhope. He's currently (again) on the board of directors?
Doctor is the husband of the judge Cook Stanhope who sends kids to and keeps kids in AARC through the provincial court.
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Another forum with some very interesting comments!
http://forums.beyond.ca/showthread.php? ... ost2817780 (http://forums.beyond.ca/showthread.php?s=&postid=2817780#post2817780)
:jawdrop:
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The biggest problem I see with the program is you can't force someone to be willing.
Willingness is the key to changing and succeeding in a 12 step program. This is the reason this program doesn't work all that well in reality. Willingness to get out of a treatment center doesn't count.
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The biggest problem I see with the program is you can't force someone to be willing.
Willingness is the key to changing and succeeding in a 12 step program. This is the reason this program doesn't work all that well in reality. Willingness to get out of a treatment center doesn't count.
When the basic assumption upon intake is that the "client" is minmizing their usage of drugs and lying in general and that their "bottom needs to be raised" should show how the cards are stacked against the "client" from the git go. From the beginning, new clients are forced to make up past incidents if they are just plain too young to have the usage required to be an addict. THEIR MUST BE SIGNIFICANT USAGE FOR ANYONE TO BE ADDICTED TO DRUGS!!! Kids are adaptable - they quickly learn when to cry, how to discuss any real or made up usage and after a while it becomes habit. The majority of "sober" graduates I have met are on staff, highly judgemental of any one who relapses or does not toe the AARC line, participates in an amazing amount of Treatment Talk, uses self-critcal catch phrases and comes across as a cult member on leave. Sadly, in AA they are praised for coming forth so early in life and changing, not having to go through years of active addiction - but then how could they be addicts? Crazy.
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The biggest problem I see with the program is you can't force someone to be willing.
Willingness is the key to changing and succeeding in a 12 step program. This is the reason this program doesn't work all that well in reality. Willingness to get out of a treatment center doesn't count.
Wow. Very well said. It's one reason I oppose all forms of forced treatment. It just plain and simple does not work. Even 12 steppers proper will acknowledge that a person cannot be forced to take the first step.
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When the basic assumption upon intake is that the "client" is minmizing their usage of drugs and lying in general and that their "bottom needs to be raised" should show how the cards are stacked against the "client" from the git go. From the beginning, new clients are forced to make up past incidents if they are just plain too young to have the usage required to be an addict. THEIR MUST BE SIGNIFICANT USAGE FOR ANYONE TO BE ADDICTED TO DRUGS!!! Kids are adaptable - they quickly learn when to cry, how to discuss any real or made up usage and after a while it becomes habit. The majority of "sober" graduates I have met are on staff, highly judgemental of any one who relapses or does not toe the AARC line, participates in an amazing amount of Treatment Talk, uses self-critcal catch phrases and comes across as a cult member on leave. Sadly, in AA they are praised for coming forth so early in life and changing, not having to go through years of active addiction - but then how could they be addicts? Crazy.
Welcome to fornits anonAARCgrad. Very good description of the program. Just out of curiosity, did you ever start to believe your trumped up confessions or did you "fake it" all the way through the program?
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The biggest problem I see with the program is you can't force someone to be willing.
Willingness is the key to changing and succeeding in a 12 step program. This is the reason this program doesn't work all that well in reality. Willingness to get out of a treatment center doesn't count.
When the basic assumption upon intake is that the "client" is minmizing their usage of drugs and lying in general and that their "bottom needs to be raised" should show how the cards are stacked against the "client" from the git go. From the beginning, new clients are forced to make up past incidents if they are just plain too young to have the usage required to be an addict. THEIR MUST BE SIGNIFICANT USAGE FOR ANYONE TO BE ADDICTED TO DRUGS!!! Kids are adaptable - they quickly learn when to cry, how to discuss any real or made up usage and after a while it becomes habit. The majority of "sober" graduates I have met are on staff, highly judgemental of any one who relapses or does not toe the AARC line, participates in an amazing amount of Treatment Talk, uses self-critcal catch phrases and comes across as a cult member on leave. Sadly, in AA they are praised for coming forth so early in life and changing, not having to go through years of active addiction - but then how could they be addicts? Crazy.
Yes the whole "raise the bottom" thing doesn't work... well, it didn't for me and many others I know.
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When the basic assumption upon intake is that the "client" is minmizing their usage of drugs and lying in general and that their "bottom needs to be raised" should show how the cards are stacked against the "client" from the git go. From the beginning, new clients are forced to make up past incidents if they are just plain too young to have the usage required to be an addict. THEIR MUST BE SIGNIFICANT USAGE FOR ANYONE TO BE ADDICTED TO DRUGS!!! Kids are adaptable - they quickly learn when to cry, how to discuss any real or made up usage and after a while it becomes habit. The majority of "sober" graduates I have met are on staff, highly judgemental of any one who relapses or does not toe the AARC line, participates in an amazing amount of Treatment Talk, uses self-critcal catch phrases and comes across as a cult member on leave. Sadly, in AA they are praised for coming forth so early in life and changing, not having to go through years of active addiction - but then how could they be addicts? Crazy.
Welcome to fornits anonAARCgrad. Very good description of the program. Just out of curiosity, did you ever start to believe your trumped up confessions or did you "fake it" all the way through the program?
I pretty much told the truth, but I put the spin on my past incidents to make them sound the way AARC wanted them to sound in order to progress. I expressed remorse when there was none, and when I attempted to talk about those areas of my life that where painful, they were always brought around to how I had used drugs. The issues I needed support with were never addressed, except as a secondary or in a minor way. It took several years after being in AARC and on staff before I felt I was shaking off the control of AARC. Then I discovered the cover ups, lack of oversite and lust for money that really opened my eyes.
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I pretty much told the truth, but I put the spin on my past incidents to make them sound the way AARC wanted them to sound in order to progress. I expressed remorse when there was none, and when I attempted to talk about those areas of my life that where painful, they were always brought around to how I had used drugs. The issues I needed support with were never addressed, except as a secondary or in a minor way. It took several years after being in AARC and on staff before I felt I was shaking off the control of AARC. Then I discovered the cover ups, lack of oversite and lust for money that really opened my eyes.
Yeah... that's the thing with these programs (Synanon based). They believe that addiction is a "primary disease" and don't believe that anything could be causing those behaviors. As such, the root causes of problems are never addressed. Drugs are used as a scapegoat.
What cover-ups did you discover?
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I barely drank before program, but during program they managed to convince me that the little drinking I had done was a symptom of alcoholism. They told me I was sick in the head and couldn't trust myself, etc etc... I believed it for a while. I believed I was fake and didn't know who I was. So many programs operate in such a similar manner.
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LOL. AARC just got busted on the comments section of the CBC article
tarastar wrote:Posted 2009/02/15
at 3:53 PM ET
There are many posts on this page taken from a facebook group in support of AARC, created by and populated with, AARC grads. What the moderators of that group aren't posting to the CBC board are all of the other comments that were deleted from that facebook group because they didn't commit to 100% unquestioning support of AARC. Just so you know, there are many more former clients of AARC who have similar complaints - not just the few that were on the Fifth Estate. I can and will personally corroborate some of the stories that have been told.
The religious fervour with which people want to protect AARC is disturbing. Regardless of what Dean Vause's intentions are, or the intentions of his staff, there are things inherent in the treatment model that open up the clients up to all kinds of abuses and their methods need to be properly investigated. If a teacher were to call a child names, or physically restrain a child, or push them up against a wall, wouldn't that teacher be fired? If a parent repeatedly and systematically threatens their child, isn't that considered abusive? So why are the people working at AARC allowed to operate this way? AARC staff repeatedly tell kids that they are breaking them down in order to build them back up. That's called brainwashing. That is behavioural conditioning. There should be various institutions in place to help kids with drug problems and kids with emotional problems - but those institutions should operate in an ethical manner that is consistent with medical research, under the direction of qualified and impartial professionals, under the scrutiny of outside governing bodies.
I was a client of AARC 15 years ago. I worked there as a peer counsellor for nearly 3 years. I am 31 years old today and I am still de-programming. The emotional damage from the brainwashing I experienced was paramount. My self-esteem was more damaged leaving than when I came in.I had incredible difficulty reintegrating into the community. That's one reason so many former clients never leave the protection of the AARC community. As for the 80% success rate - where did that number really come from? No one has ever surveyed me or any of my friends on what we're doing in our lives. Dean has been throwing that "success rate" out since 1994, never with any variation or proof, just a demand for trust. I would like to see some actual evidence for Dean's claims - evidence provided by an outside impartial entity.
AARC needs to be thoroughly investigated.
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2009/02/ ... alcomments (http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2009/02/13/abuse.html#socialcomments)
Oh dear.. I hope they used proxies. LOL.
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I pretty much told the truth, but I put the spin on my past incidents to make them sound the way AARC wanted them to sound in order to progress. I expressed remorse when there was none, and when I attempted to talk about those areas of my life that where painful, they were always brought around to how I had used drugs. The issues I needed support with were never addressed, except as a secondary or in a minor way. It took several years after being in AARC and on staff before I felt I was shaking off the control of AARC. Then I discovered the cover ups, lack of oversite and lust for money that really opened my eyes.
Yeah... that's the thing with these programs (Synanon based). They believe that addiction is a "primary disease" and don't believe that anything could be causing those behaviors. As such, the root causes of problems are never addressed. Drugs are used as a scapegoat.
What cover-ups did you discover?
Mostly their knowledge of major crimes committed by clients and graduates, AARC's aiding of their defence and hiding behind "confidentiality" that is waived whenever it is to AARC's advantage. In fact there is no privacy requirement or expectation when a serious crime is committed - AARC is under obligation to report their knowlege but has been unwilling unless compelled by law.
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Mostly their knowledge of major crimes committed by clients and graduates, AARC's aiding of their defence and hiding behind "confidentiality" that is waived whenever it is to AARC's advantage. In fact there is no privacy requirement or expectation when a serious crime is committed - AARC is under obligation to report their knowlege but has been unwilling unless compelled by law.
This is very similar to other allegations I've heard. I don't blame any of the staff, though. DV has them all good and brainwashed. He is responsible for what is going on. He is the cult leader. I've been amazed at reading some of the comments on the CBC article. Almost more than any program i've seen before, they seem to regard him as some sort of messiah. If DV has this kind of hold over the kids, I fear what he might order them to do if he's pushed into a corner (rattelsnake, anybody?).
Phil, if you're reading this... make sure to have your interns get your mail in the future... LOL.
(if you didn't get that, it's a Synanon joke)
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On a serious note... Just how dedicated are the kids to DV. How far would they go to protect him or AARC?
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On a serious note... Just how dedicated are the kids to DV. How far would they go to protect him or AARC?
Their are many who would lie or break the law for him. Scarier though is the Parents. And there are some very wealthy, influential parents. CEOs, judges, prosecuters. It will be interesting to see how the Calgary media covers this - they have been giving fluffy, favorable coverage for years.
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Well. The infection has spread to Canada, then.
I see this going one of two ways: You could get some of those powerful people creating more AARCs and supporting them with federal monies while lobbying for legislation for tougher drug laws and forced treatment. Like it has in the United States, you could end up with an entire infestation of AARCs (and I mean that quite literally... you do not want what we have here).
OR;
Awareness can be spread, politicians and corrupt judges exposed, CEOs talked to, program parents deprogrammed, etc... Maybe the damage can be localized. The CBC report is a good start. It's far better than anything we've seen here in the states.
I'd say at this point the "war" is of words, on the internet, and with the media. People who have been mistreated at aarc need to make their voices heard if this is going to stop.
... or at least that's my opinion.
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Their are many who would lie or break the law for him. Scarier though is the Parents. And there are some very wealthy, influential parents. CEOs, judges, prosecuters. It will be interesting to see how the Calgary media covers this - they have been giving fluffy, favorable coverage for years.
Do you suspect that Judges might have "unofficial" relationships with AARC or if there is any corruption going on? Recently in the states a similar case was exposed where two judges took over 2 million in kickbacks for referrals to "treatment" centers.
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Their are many who would lie or break the law for him. Scarier though is the Parents. And there are some very wealthy, influential parents. CEOs, judges, prosecuters. It will be interesting to see how the Calgary media covers this - they have been giving fluffy, favorable coverage for years.
Do you suspect that Judges might have "unofficial" relationships with AARC or if there is any corruption going on? Recently in the states a similar case was exposed where two judges took over 2 million in kickbacks for referrals to "treatment" centers.
No idea. Judge Cook Stanhope has sentenced many children to AARC and her husband is on the Board. This is certainly peculiar.
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No idea. Judge Cook Stanhope has sentenced many children to AARC and her husband is on the Board. This is certainly peculiar.
Yeah. I've heard about her. It could certainly be that she is conned and not paid off, but who knows. Stranger shit has happened. What do you think AARC is going to do now that this documentary has been produced? do you think their funding will drop dramatically or do you think the same "program saved my life" shtick from the walking billboards will still work?
At least in the states the authorities generally dont' give a damn about the kids when they are labeled as "druggies". Does this differ in Alberta?
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No idea. Judge Cook Stanhope has sentenced many children to AARC and her husband is on the Board. This is certainly peculiar.
Yeah. I've heard about her. It could certainly be that she is conned and not paid off, but who knows. Stranger shit has happened. What do you think AARC is going to do now that this documentary has been produced? do you think their funding will drop dramatically or do you think the same "program saved my life" shtick from the walking billboards will still work?
Again, they have powerful friends - government, media, law enforcement. I am hoping more graduates and parents open their eyes, let go of their one-sided opinions and see what is going on. That is the most important thing. It took me years and I needed a jolt to get my head out my ass. But if it can happen to me, it can happen for anyone.
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Again, they have powerful friends - government, media, law enforcement. I am hoping more graduates and parents open their eyes, let go of their one-sided opinions and see what is going on. That is the most important thing. It took me years and I needed a jolt to get my head out my ass. But if it can happen to me, it can happen for anyone.
That's the thing with thought reform. It's only temporary and only lasts as long as a person is in the group. Straight Inc kids who still think the program helped them to this day are few and far between (I can't recall ever meeting one).
When did you snap out of it? Recently?
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Again, they have powerful friends - government, media, law enforcement. I am hoping more graduates and parents open their eyes, let go of their one-sided opinions and see what is going on. That is the most important thing. It took me years and I needed a jolt to get my head out my ass. But if it can happen to me, it can happen for anyone.
That's the thing with thought reform. It's only temporary and only lasts as long as a person is in the group. Straight Inc kids who still think the program helped them to this day are few and far between (I can't recall ever meeting one).
When did you snap out of it? Recently?
Its been over the last couple of years. Looooong story.
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Its been over the last couple of years. Looooong story.
How does your family feel about AARC?
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Its been over the last couple of years. Looooong story.
How does your family feel about AARC?
They are done with them.
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Judge Cooke Stanhope is the same judge who kept my son in AARC on a court order.
I have the transcripts.
I withdrew consent in court for him to attend at the FIRST review! My consent was required to get him in there, my lack of consent should have been all required to get him out. His lawyer stated he was being "unduly influenced" by the the program, but none of this meant anything to Stanhope. She refused to allow me to talk to my son, paid NO attention to any of my concerns, sent him back to AARC when Lisa Luciano said she would "carry" him through the program (Whatever that means... and the judge refused to tell me WHAT that means) and I was since that time OUT of the program. She refused to listen to my pleas for alternative treatment, such as the Royal Alexandria hospital in Edmonton which was my son's choice prior to hearing about AARC.
Judge Cook Stanhope and her husband Dr. Alan Stanhope attended my son's graduation at AARC and hugged him.
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This is the problem with cults. They worm their way into politicians, judges, the legal system. It's all about control and money. I beg you in Canada to deal with this problem quickly and firmly before you end up with a situation that is as bad or worse than what we have in the United States. These organizations spread like a cancer and self-replicate. You do not want these wackos influencing public policy like they do in the US.
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more comments here:
http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/discussion/2009 ... rless.html (http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/discussion/2009/02/powerless.html)
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Well, I have posted one comment here:
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2009/02/ ... nts-submit (http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2009/02/13/abuse.html?Authorized=1&AuthenticationKey=1_58_66ef5d43-6fcd-48a9-91f4-04688611804a.pbcddlcocbffip#socialcomments-submit)
And two comments here:
http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/discussion/2009 ... rless.html (http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/discussion/2009/02/powerless.html)
And I have yet to see any of them posted. How long will this take? I posted one of them 2 days ago. Is anyone else having problems posting comments?
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For the record: In the five months I was in AARC I never progressed past Step 1 as I was incapable of "acknowledging I was powerless over alcohol and that my life had become unmanagable". It's really hard to accept so completely something that is fundamentally untrue.
Also, after I was raped I tried to get to see a doctor - I was taken to Stanhope and staff would not leave the room while I was there. The doctor's report says I was there for: "female problems". Ironic eh? Wouldn't you think rape is more of a male problem?
Rachael
For the record:
You are a fuckin bottom-feeding idiot racheal and a fuckin liar. but psy likes ya so you should be ok LOL
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And I have yet to see any of them posted. How long will this take? I posted one of them 2 days ago. Is anyone else having problems posting comments?
If they're approved, it usually takes a few hours. I'm not sure what the criteria for approval is. A few of mine didn't make it through either.
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Rachel, Christien, BoDana, Cisi, and Scott. Thank you! You guys stuck your necks out there and I will back you up. I posted my story on the Survivors Story page and I would love to help you. What action are you taking?
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Sorry, correction: Simi
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Where is the Survivor's Story Page?
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Where is the Survivor's Story Page?
I believe he was referring to this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=23701 (http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=23701)
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And I have yet to see any of them posted. How long will this take? I posted one of them 2 days ago. Is anyone else having problems posting comments?
If they're approved, it usually takes a few hours. I'm not sure what the criteria for approval is. A few of mine didn't make it through either.
Probably something wrong with the content, I'll keep trying. -Thanks
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I have the contact infor of a lawyer in calgary willing to file a class action law suite pro bono.