Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => News Items => Topic started by: wdtony on February 07, 2009, 05:02:52 AM
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Father: Son mistreated at rehab center
Man alleges sleep deprivation,
isolation
Last Edited: Friday, 06 Feb 2009, 11:32 PM EST
Created On: Friday, 06 Feb 2009, 10:23 PM EST
Karen Hensel
Edited by Andrew Bonner
INDIANAPOLIS (WISH) - I-Team 8 has learned a formal complaint has been filed with the state attorney general against an Indianapolis teen rehab center. At issue: a father who claims his son is being mistreated inside Pathway Family Center in Castleton.
In his complaint, Mark West states what happened to his 17-year-old son inside Pathway has him "gravely concerned for his son's welfare both physically and emotionally."
What West calls isolation, other parents call lifesaving for their drug-addicted teenagers. Pathway allowed 24-Hour News 8 inside the facility and provided a group of parents for I-Team 8 to speak with.
The complaint, filed late Friday afternoon with the Indiana Attorney General?s Office, alleges "substandard housing and care" including kids sleeping in locked rooms with windows bolted shut and no lights. One allegation is that at least one 17-year-old missed a complete year of school.
The complaint goes on to allege continual sleep deprivation and isolation. It alleges kids are not allowed privacy at any time and that other kids who've been in the program longer are then assigned to go with them while bathing or using the bathroom.
The complaint also says kids are cut off from family, no phone calls or letters allowed, so there is no way to address grievances or mistreatment.
Two other Pathway facilities have closed in recent months in Detroit and Cincinnati, Ohio amid protests from parents and former students. But director Terri Nissley said they closed due to the bad economy and that the Pathway program is being confused with another program that was shut down two years ago in Ohio.
"There were people treated at Kids Helping Kids years ago, disgruntled and they were the protestors. We don't claim them," said Nissley.
Parents and kids tell I-Team 8 they do receive schooling, at the very least over the Internet. They also said that kids are not allowed to touch other kids.
Looking through state contracts, I-Team 8 has found the company just signed an agreement with the state of Indiana to counsel kids through juvenile probation and the courts.
One of four kids Pathway allowed us to speak with broke down into tears, saying she owes her life to the program.
Source: http://www.wishtv.com/dpp/news/local/Fa ... hab_center (http://www.wishtv.com/dpp/news/local/Father_Son_mistreated_at_rehab_center)
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YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UW-G7i_Q0cM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UW-G7i_Q0cM)
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lol... comments on the article are a riot. I wonder if pathway emails all their parents when an article about them comes up.
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A lot of grrrrrrreat comments on there. Very interesting discourse.
I am wondering how Pathway is getting a bailout by the Indiana state government. Isn't that the sickest part? A failing, abusive, brainwashing program (501c3 charitable organization) gets a government contract? We'll see how that is going to turn out soon. With a state contract, I wonder if that would change the status of this not-for-profit entity in regards to regulation. That government money sure would be nice lawsuit bait for disgruntled parents.
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LOL... four times in that thread so far i've been accused of being either a drunk or on drugs (they called Bill Earnshaw a drugged up hippie too!). LOL. Talking to straight parents is so amusing.
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Check out my response: http://www.topix.net/forum/source/wish/ ... A6MVS4J/p7 (http://www.topix.net/forum/source/wish/TROP1SFH8BA6MVS4J/p7)
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I think we're up to something like six or seven times I've been accused of being on drugs. AND they bothered to sift through what must have been many many pages of Google to find my Naymz profile. LOL. For some reason I think they're pissed at me.
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My GOD, they're fucking zombies. I've never seen program parents *this* far gone. Anybody got a picture of some Pathway staff/owners? I feel a zombie sculpt coming on.
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Come on Psy, don't you care about children? LOL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh2sWSVRrmo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh2sWSVRrmo)
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Come on Psy, don't you care about children? LOL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh2sWSVRrmo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh2sWSVRrmo)
Heh. One of my favorites as it's such an apt parody of so many real life scenarios:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/For_The_Children_(politics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/For_The_Children_(politics))
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Anyone else having trouble finding this page or looking at comments? I can't seem to get my computer to view the comments page on the WISH I-Team site.
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Anyone else having trouble finding this page or looking at comments? I can't seem to get my computer to view the comments page on the WISH I-Team site.
works fine for me:
It's on page 15 now:
http://www.topix.net/forum/source/wish/ ... 6MVS4J/p15 (http://www.topix.net/forum/source/wish/TROP1SFH8BA6MVS4J/p15)
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Anyone else having trouble finding this page or looking at comments? I can't seem to get my computer to view the comments page on the WISH I-Team site.
works fine for me:
It's on page 15 now:
http://www.topix.net/forum/source/wish/ ... 6MVS4J/p15 (http://www.topix.net/forum/source/wish/TROP1SFH8BA6MVS4J/p15)
Thanks Psy, that link works for me. The other one locks my computer up. Weird.
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My my. On page 17, a parent admits proudly to restraining "a couple of" kids in group.
Is that illegal?
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My my. On page 17, a parent admits proudly to restraining "a couple of" kids in group.
Is that illegal?
It certainly is interesting to see how "different" this program is. Now if we can keep this communication going as long as possible, information like this will leak out here and there. This is like kryptonite for a secret, deceptive program. The last thing an abusive program wants is people communicating that have experienced these abuses.
Hopefully some of the parents will see these main points and start to question Pathway.
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One approach is to keep them talking as long as possible and get them to answer as many questions as possible so that some :ftard: parent will slip up and actually publicly air some of the less savory aspects of the program. This "Darren Williamson" fellow doesn't seem to exactly be the brightest bulb in the pack. If Pathway hasn't already shut him up, it's probably a good idea to ask him a few more questions.
Good job with your kindler, gentler approach (http://http://www.topix.net/forum/source/wish/TROP1SFH8BA6MVS4J/post395) in response.
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You can expect more after tonight, since Monday parent rap is just letting out, LOL... I bet they were all holding hands and chanting SAVE US OH LORD! SAVE OUR CHILDREN!!! LET US NOT BE DECEIVED BY THE TRUTH!!!!! Talk about having an ass handed to someone, :roflmao: :roflmao: :moon: :moon: :moon:
Maaaaan, I can't wait to hear what happens when the real shit hits the fan!! :jamin: :jamin: :jamin: :jamin: :jamin: :rocker: :rocker:
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You can expect more after tonight, since Monday parent rap is just letting out
AHA! That's probably why it was so quiet these past few hours... lol... They've all gone to their little church to worship the program.
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One approach is to keep them talking as long as possible and get them to answer as many questions as possible so that some :ftard: parent will slip up and actually publicly air some of the less savory aspects of the program. This "Darren Williamson" fellow doesn't seem to exactly be the brightest bulb in the pack. If Pathway hasn't already shut him up, it's probably a good idea to ask him a few more questions.
Good job with your kindler, gentler approach (http://http://www.topix.net/forum/source/wish/TROP1SFH8BA6MVS4J/post395) in response.
Well, I want the truth to come out and, although many won't agree with me here, I don't place blame on the parents. I place blame on the program completely. I do not wish to attack the parents and I understand it is difficult because the program has carefully positioned them between it and us. There may be certain people who are pure evil, but I always try to judge someone as an individual, and if they be a program parent, I can respect a person fighting for the welfare of their child. Whether they are right or not doesn't matter to me. I only hope they educate themselves on this very important issue and then re-evaluate their decisions.
This discourse is very good, although it gets a bit ugly here and there.
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Like you implied some people are just sadistick fucks and just because they're in a cult doesn't mean it absolves them of their actions. It's a case-by-case issue in my mind.
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Like you implied some people are just sadistick fucks and just because they're in a cult doesn't mean it absolves them of their actions. It's a case-by-case issue in my mind.
As you know, I don't think of it that way "exactly" but I understand the thinking. We just have different views on this. I do think there are "bad apples" out there supporting programs as well as some who do not support programs. Case by case issue is a good way to put it. At any rate, I appreciate all of the insightful comments by you and everyone else on that thread. This is an emotional subject, there is bound to be some explosive banter mixed in from all sides.
Hopefully this will be informative for the public and all who are reading this extremely long thread.
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LOL. I got em cornered good on page 27 and 28
http://www.topix.net/forum/source/wish/ ... J/p27#c546 (http://www.topix.net/forum/source/wish/TROP1SFH8BA6MVS4J/p27#c546)
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sorry i had to chime in.
http://http://www.topix.net/forum/source/wish/TROP1SFH8BA6MVS4J/p32#lastPost
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jESUS, first, do you have to give these people more imaginary diseases to torture their kids for having? ODD? CD?
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Parents now perform restraints at PFC???????!!!!!!!!!!!
OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Someone said they are copying entire comments section which is 810 comments or something, pls state where these are filed, immed., otherwise will copy it myself but u will sav me time if u already did it!!!! THANKS.
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jESUS, first, do you have to give these people more imaginary diseases to torture their kids for having? ODD? CD?
if you read the whole thing you will see that it says "Punitive treatments like boot camps and "behavioral modification" schools which restrict contact with parents, and place the child among other disturbed children, can do more harm than good.
Outlook (Prognosis)
"
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Parents now perform restraints at PFC???????!!!!!!!!!!!
OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Someone said they are copying entire comments section which is 810 comments or something, pls state where these are filed, immed., otherwise will copy it myself but u will sav me time if u already did it!!!! THANKS.
That's me. I've saved em all. Page 18 is where the parnt, Darren Williamson, admits to performing restraints, however he has been reluctant to answer any further questions on the subject (somebody named "watch what you say" showed up and told him not to answer any further questions on restraint).
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jESUS, first, do you have to give these people more imaginary diseases to torture their kids for having? ODD? CD?
if you read the whole thing you will see that it says "Punitive treatments like boot camps and "behavioral modification" schools which restrict contact with parents, and place the child among other disturbed children, can do more harm than good.
Outlook (Prognosis)
"
Yes, i see your point, still please don't dignify that imaginary disease/child-killing/torture justification.
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i was trying to point out that it things like behavior are better dealt with at the home level. if you feel that i was advocating FOR this torture than you miss took what i was saying. i am in no way trying to give them food for thought, im trying to do just the opposite. if a child can have one of what is mentioned (unfortunately a lot could fall into this via teenage rebellion) which is worse to or equal to what the parents are claiming and it is better to deal with it at a home level why not their child? or do they not listen to people who deal with this every day. (which most of the parents fall under. example i know whats right even thought there is proof to the opposite.)
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Most kids who are labeled with ODD/CD aren't actually diagnosed with it... other than maybe by the facility to justify more time (more money). The definition in the DSM clearly states that normal teenage behavior should not be labeled as ODD/CD.
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there was a rather nutty TB parnet on there at one point. Did you see this, FR?
http://www.topix.net/forum/source/wish/ ... 4J/post615 (http://www.topix.net/forum/source/wish/TROP1SFH8BA6MVS4J/post615)
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nope i didnt see that one. thanks for the heads up.
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nope i didnt see that one. thanks for the heads up.
She's a real bitch, ain't she.
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She's one of those parent i'd put in the "sadistic fuck" category.
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This stuff exacerbates me. If I may share my feelings about the matter, I have feeling like crying just even just barely skimming those comments -- because WHA???? Parents restrain the kids now? Oh because the kids aren't allowed to anymore???? So now even bigger fat asses will be sitting on the kids???
The other thing is --- WHA????? Parents are going in the bathroom where the kids are? What?????!!!!!!! Excuse me because it will take a while to get to read it all and now I don't know what page to look on for that....
So I am not going to say anything until I find out!!!!!
Anyone got page #s on this and thanks psy for the page 18 reference!
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This stuff exacerbates me. If I may share my feelings about the matter, I have feeling like crying just even just barely skimming those comments
I'm pretty numb to this stuff at this point, but even I was shocked at some of the comments. I agree. The good thing is that all these parents have no idea just how batshit crazy they look to outsiders... My strategy is to just keep em talking so they'll hang themselves with their own words.
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WHA????? Parents are going in the bathroom where the kids are? What?????!!!!!!!
I didn't see that. If I did I would have noted the page. If such a comment is there, you'll have to go through it manually to find it.
I wouldn't trust what all the "parents" say. Some might not actually be parents. One parent, "James D", for instance, claimed that parents never participate in restraints. Then comes Darren Williamson who admits he particpated in "a couple"... There are other contradictions elsewhere.
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Oh... and the "informed supporters". There are a few of those too... kinda like the scientologists who go "I am not a scientologist but... bla bla bla scientologists are the best bla bla bla scientology is a completely legit religion bla bla bla"
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Why does PFC get hundreds of thousands of dollars for host homes when they don't pay for it the parents do?
Anyone done any kind of Michigan Bureau of Investigation, Freedom of Information Act, request on PFC? Why really did they close if they had enough money? Or didn't they have enough money? What's the non-profit tax form called that is supposed to be public?
Okay, thanks for your consideration of these matters, any information. Just another insomniac survivor here, thanks for wasting my time while I waste yours late at night on the internet unpaid while we slackers and hackers get out the bookkeeping ledgers and try to figure it out while playing yo-yo and do bong hits. :)
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She's one of those parent i'd put in the "sadistic fuck" category.
no that's in a category all to itself. i think i have seen her before on antiwwasp. she is just insane. oh well keep em talking so they hang themselves. i love cat and mouse. someone is saving this shit right?
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someone is saving this shit right?
Yup. And if it disappears. It'll be hosted here.
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i was trying to point out that it things like behavior are better dealt with at the home level. if you feel that i was advocating FOR this torture than you miss took what i was saying. i am in no way trying to give them food for thought, im trying to do just the opposite. if a child can have one of what is mentioned (unfortunately a lot could fall into this via teenage rebellion) which is worse to or equal to what the parents are claiming and it is better to deal with it at a home level why not their child? or do they not listen to people who deal with this every day. (which most of the parents fall under. example i know whats right even thought there is proof to the opposite.)
Ok, maybe I’m not expressing myself well. Basically, what I mean is that ODD and CD are not legitimate pathologies and I wish you would not validate them The idea that "rebellious" "behavior" in and of itself is a disease is preposterous (and ODD and CD are but lists of "rebellious" behaviors) and its creation and subsequent diagnosis is a great human tragedy. This invention has pathologized and destroyed people through the "treatments" administered for it.
When did that AMA recommendation not to put kids who are dxed with ODD and CD in Bemod centers or BCs originate? As you can imagine, that recommendation is easily avoided by simply advertising your facility as a therapeutic boarding school.
Ot, but just saying
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Most kids who are labeled with ODD/CD aren't actually diagnosed with it... other than maybe by the facility to justify more time (more money). The definition in the DSM clearly states that normal teenage behavior should not be labeled as ODD/CD.
I wish that were true. I don't know if it is. Do you have links about how often it’s diagnosed by "doctors"? I just read some article where some medical finding was excerpted, saying as many as 20% of youth come down with ODD at sometime in their lives...
I have experience with this dx being dished out for ridiculous reasons. In the end, in “identifying” this "disorder" the dr will rely on parents’ description of behavior. And parent’s descriptions of behavior most often are not in line with reality.
Not to mention, whether or not the inventor of ODD doesn't want it applied to normal teen rebellion the disorder clearly describes normal teenage, hell, human behavior, so that can’t be avoided.
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Darren Williamson: someone should check into the DWs in the area... i wonder if all the blog activity will help the situation. i really doubt that parents are watching the kids go to the bathroom..i still its the kids doing it to the other kids. If it is the parents...well, i guess that's some kind of improvement. THey don't do it like Straight did it anymore! They've changed! Now PARENTS, not kids, sexually abuse the captives en mass
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LOL.. thread still going strong. I have a feeling this is goign to turn out to be a VERY long news commentary thread.
http://www.topix.net/forum/source/wish/ ... 6MVS4J/p50 (http://www.topix.net/forum/source/wish/TROP1SFH8BA6MVS4J/p50)
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keep up the comments. PArticularly keep posting links to survivor testimony and documents. people can go back and forth forever but FACTS are undebateable. Poor Amanda O.
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:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
comment of the thread... hands down!
http://www.topix.net/forum/source/wish/ ... J/post1012 (http://www.topix.net/forum/source/wish/TROP1SFH8BA6MVS4J/post1012)
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Yes, I can see the humor in that.
It is also sad. I wish this would hurry up and get over with.
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LOLOL... They're calling us "terrorists" now and have started using Straight terminology such as "druggie friends"
http://www.topix.net/forum/source/wish/ ... /p58#c1166 (http://www.topix.net/forum/source/wish/TROP1SFH8BA6MVS4J/p58#c1166)
Somebody is getting stressed... lol
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Any word about how well that protest is goin on there in Indy right now? I figured them supporters have to get off the comps and go try to defend the place in person. :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
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*GASP*
IT WAS A DRUGGIE DIVERSION
MAN THE BATTLESTATIONS
WATCH OUT FOR DUCK SIGNS!
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Yes, very very large signs, complete with high pressure duck poop squirting devices. QUAAAAAAACK!!!!!!! ::fullofshit:: ::fullofshit:: ::fullofshit:: :roflmao:
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LOLs... Please feel free to post any pictures/video here. We have the attachment feature for a reason.
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Protest pictures here:
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=26972 (http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=26972)
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Alert, Alert!
The comments are not deleted, but the article now links to a different comments section:
http://www.topix.net/forum/source/wish/ ... 95QJESKTKL (http://www.topix.net/forum/source/wish/TDCNP1L95QJESKTKL)
Get your word in on the first page!
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New article sparked by our comments:
http://www.wishtv.com/dpp/news/i_team_8 ... hab_center (http://www.wishtv.com/dpp/news/i_team_8/agency_inspects_teen_rehab_center)
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somebody is flooding the old comment thread. I mean really flooding it. It's either somebody who doesn't care about the discussion, or somebody from PFC trying to make critics look nuts and get the thread deleted.
http://www.topix.net/forum/source/wish/ ... 6MVS4J/p62 (http://www.topix.net/forum/source/wish/TROP1SFH8BA6MVS4J/p62)
Personally, i'm flagging all the duplicate posts.
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somebody is flooding the old comment thread. I mean really flooding it. It's either somebody who doesn't care about the discussion, or somebody from PFC trying to make critics look nuts and get the thread deleted.
http://www.topix.net/forum/source/wish/ ... 6MVS4J/p62 (http://www.topix.net/forum/source/wish/TROP1SFH8BA6MVS4J/p62)
Personally, i'm flagging all the duplicate posts.
I went through and reported them all as abuse. The titles were the same but the locations are all different. Could be PFC peeps, ......maybe Gook? ha, I'm entitled to my opinion.
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What I did was create a note to the admins and flagged my own post so they would have to read that post. I just told them (as you might see) to delete the duplicate and/or flooding comments.
Who it is... I'm not sure, but i'm inclined to think they are unaware of the existance of this fornits thread (otherwise they would be posting here). The absense of any such person from fornits leads me to believe such a person is from PFC acting as an agent provocateur.
Maybe it's the tin foil, but let's put it this way: If I was trying to make *them* look nuts and had no regard for ethics or fair play, it's what I would do.
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What I did was create a note to the admins and flagged my own post so they would have to read that post. I just told them (as you might see) to delete the duplicate and/or flooding comments.
Who it is... I'm not sure, but i'm inclined to think they are unaware of the existance of this fornits thread (otherwise they would be posting here). The absense of any such person from fornits leads me to believe such a person is from PFC acting as an agent provocateur.
Maybe it's the tin foil, but let's put it this way: If I was trying to make *them* look nuts and had no regard for ethics or fair play, it's what I would do.
After further consideration, I agree with you. I think this is a PFC provocateur. I won't tell you how I arrived at this consideration exactly. I first thought mis-guided program hater but the country change which is probably an IP change would indicate a program supporter with an agenda. Good job staying on top of it.
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Thanks. Have you noticed that there are no pro-PFC comments on the new threads yet? Maybe they stopped telling parents to visit the articles and make comments. If they don't show up at all, i'm going to conclude they lost a few "customers" to the 1200 comment thread (of course this is speculation).
One reason I commented so much on that thread was because it was such a rare opportunity to get to talk directly to program parents. The last time I did that (on ST) they took the discussion forum private after the parents started turning on Lon Woodbury... LOL.
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Either way, we win. If the parents post, we get to talk to them. If the parents don't post, we get dominion over the comments section of articles.
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What I did was create a note to the admins and flagged my own post so they would have to read that post. I just told them (as you might see) to delete the duplicate and/or flooding comments.
Who it is... I'm not sure, but i'm inclined to think they are unaware of the existance of this fornits thread (otherwise they would be posting here). The absense of any such person from fornits leads me to believe such a person is from PFC acting as an agent provocateur.
Maybe it's the tin foil, but let's put it this way: If I was trying to make *them* look nuts and had no regard for ethics or fair play, it's what I would do.
Lol. His tin crown sparkles in the moonlit glow. Yep, that poster is a genuine “program hater.” --Me , INSOMNIAC!!
Sorry, Not everyone looooves the Interview with the Parental Vampires. I've read that book. It goes no where and gets ya drained.
The different countries comes from a simple proxy service that seems to change countries whenever it feels like it. Can't do much about it. The multiple posts come from whatever weird tech issue you know more about then me. Not intentional
The beauty of comment sections is people have freedom to post how they want. I don't like ALL CAPS person's style, and i don't like the "hey, i know you're only doing this out of LOVE, shtick" (no, they're doing it out of crazy)or the endless copy pasta of Our Lord PEELE but each to his own, it gets the ball moving towards the right hole, and it aint my place to tell people to modify their prose.
but as an honorary PFC agent procedure, I'd just like to say.............BOO!!!! :cheers: :rasta: :rasta: :jerry: O0 :birthday: :rofl: :-[
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Watching the wish report on PFC after watching that canadian report on AARC... American journalists are such fucking amateurs. If they dug, they'd find just as much on PFC, but they don't... why that is.. fucked if I know.
I mean... it's like "the program gives us parents, so der... lets get talk to them and get the truth".
Wish really needs to take a lesson from the Canadians on this one. They look real bad.
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What I did was create a note to the admins and flagged my own post so they would have to read that post. I just told them (as you might see) to delete the duplicate and/or flooding comments.
Who it is... I'm not sure, but i'm inclined to think they are unaware of the existance of this fornits thread (otherwise they would be posting here). The absense of any such person from fornits leads me to believe such a person is from PFC acting as an agent provocateur.
Maybe it's the tin foil, but let's put it this way: If I was trying to make *them* look nuts and had no regard for ethics or fair play, it's what I would do.
Lol. His tin crown sparkles in the moonlit glow. Yep, that poster is a genuine “program hater.” --Me , INSOMNIAC!!
Sorry, Not everyone looooves the Interview with the Parental Vampires. I've read that book. It goes no where and gets ya drained.
The different countries comes from a simple proxy service that seems to change countries whenever it feels like it. Can't do much about it. The multiple posts come from whatever weird tech issue you know more about then me. Not intentional
The beauty of comment sections is people have freedom to post how they want. I don't like ALL CAPS person's style, and i don't like the "hey, i know you're only doing this out of LOVE, shtick" (no, they're doing it out of crazy)or the endless copy pasta of Our Lord PEELE but each to his own, it gets the ball moving towards the right hole, and it aint my place to tell people to modify their prose.
but as an honorary PFC agent procedure, I'd just like to say.............BOO!!!! :cheers: :rasta: :rasta: :jerry: O0 :birthday: :rofl: :-[
LOL... ok. point taken, but in my experience, although it IS draining, talking to parents can sometimes pay off. Remember ST? These are essentially cult members and as such their one vulnerability is in breaking the controlled communication. If you can break that by talking to the parents, you can get a percentage of them to listen, or at least re-think their views. Sometimes, you might even convince one to pull a kid. It *does* happen. IF PFC doesn't call every and all parents to it's next article (or tells them to avoid it), we'll know what happened. Time will tell. IT is a *rare* opportunity to be able to talk to parents uncensored. It shouldn't be wasted. Why do you think the kids aren't allowed to talk to their parents? Think about it.
Remember how scientologists tell their members to stay away from certain sites? Remember how Straight told parents to avoid reading the news at certain times? Well... they do that for a reason, and I happen to enjoy throwing monkey wrenches in their works.
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shit... with the delay on the comments, i'm thinking these parents/graduates are actually *watching* the CBC documentary on AARC. wow!
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Maybe they're all trying to explain to MDCH how they can keep the Level 3's and above at the building there in Southfield, LOL... and save face after reporting that they closed last month. HMMM....... Very in ter es tink!!! :on phone: :on phone: :on phone: :roflmao: :roflmao:
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Maybe they're all trying to explain to MDCH how they can keep the Level 3's and above at the building there in Southfield, LOL... and save face after reporting that they closed last month. HMMM....... Very in ter es tink!!! :on phone: :on phone: :on phone: :roflmao: :roflmao:
very interesting....why don't ye pm me?
-DP
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Sad, sad, example of how low PFC supporters will stoop:
http://www.topix.net/forum/source/wish/ ... R/p40#c805 (http://www.topix.net/forum/source/wish/T3KPEP7KPVEM8FPSR/p40#c805)
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it gets repetetive but keep posting in the comments. Lets get all the info out there an make it the "most" responses i team has ever had.