Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Anonymous on January 04, 2009, 06:32:52 PM
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it looks like the programs are getting worried and sending out their workers to fornits. the new threads talking about taking violent revenge on programs and now a new one with someone trying to sell drugs. this is an attempt to discredit fornits and anti program people in general as a bunch of drug addicted & violent no-goodniks.
please don't post in these kind of threads that give this site negative attention or make people question if this site is reliable. just ignore them, it would be better if the admins would delete them please.
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While I agree that people should always be cautious, especially about giving out their addresses and information to strangers, technically Salvia is perfectly legal (and, indeed, we have a link to a site that sells Salvia and other Entheogens (http://http://www.bouncingbearbotanicals.com/?ref=852&affiliate_banner_id=9) in the ad rotation). As far as whether there are agent provocateurs on Fornits? I'm almost positive that is the case, however the administration would be wrong to go witch hunting and say who is who (not that it is known). The general philosophy of Ginger as the site owner here (as I understand it, and I cannot speak for her) is that people should be responsible for what they post and cautious about what they hear, as with anywhere else.
My advice to those everybody, regardless of whether on Fornits or anywhere else is: be careful who you trust. Be wise. Things are often not as they seem on the surface (though sometimes they are).
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the new threads talking about taking violent revenge on programs and now a new one with someone trying to sell drugs.
Wha? Where?
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While I agree that people should always be cautious, especially about giving out their addresses and information to strangers, technically Salvia is perfectly legal (and, indeed, we have a link to a site that sells Salvia and other Entheogens (http://http://www.bouncingbearbotanicals.com/?ref=852&affiliate_banner_id=9) in the ad rotation). .
lol. This entire website is a fake run by the industry.
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hahaha... what a riot! I think I'll just go back to posting my usual boring shit, which no one generally responds to anyway... :D
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this sounds way too much like a conspiracy theory... what would they be discrediting us for anyway? the lawsuits we cant even get into court? or to the program parents that are well past any ability to be reasoned with anyway... for what exactly?... if we all pretty much post anon, even under a registered account we are still not sharing our names or IP address what possible way could they hold anything against us? individually or the site as a whole?
we seriously need to get a smiley with a tin hat on his head... lol
:ftard: <----- this guy w/ ::tin hat::
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Look, some people have a reason to be paranoid. Others are paranoid because they have nothing better to do with their time. Give the OP some benefits of the doubt and lay off his/her ass.
For all you know they might be right, but then for all you know they might have been the one who started the salvia and kil programmie threads in the first place. Either way there is no reason why they need to be heckled or belittled in anyway. Be better than that and save it for someone truly worthy of it.
Like Kevin or Blombro.
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Ok ok. Im not totally against the idea... it just sounds like a conspiracy theory, a theory that could very well be true.
Yea, Im honestly shocked to see people posting about killing people. I really dont think thats anything any of us would do.
As well most of us dont even do drugs.
So he could have a point.
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I really dont think thats anything any of us would do.
Some are already dead! The bodycount will continue to rise if there is no justice!!!
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Pirate[/url]"]Well, the point is not that justice doesn't exist, but that it's only possible in the present. You can act justly toward others or not, but what's been done cannot be undone and what was done unjustly cannot be made just. It's just done. Aint it ??
I think so, bro. I do think so. Little to be done for those already damaged except to treat them as justly as we can from here on out. If justice be done to the entire ToughLove hate group, why I guess that would mean no more new victims to be unjustly treated and thereby encouraged to go postal at some future point.
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The insanity here must be contagious. There are only a handful of people who ever find and read this forum. Even less take it seriously enough to come back and post on a regular basis. This industry has dealt with tens of thousands, possibly hundreds of thousands of youths. Where are they? Most people have internet access now. You really got to wonder, if programs were as abusive and torturous as some here claim why wouldn't there be more people posting about it? As far as I can tell, the anti program "movement" is a half dozen people with different websites and acronyms which accomplish nothing other than online bantering. This small core group of "activists" can't even get along for more than 5 minutes, your cause is hopeless if that is any indication. So where are they? Where are all these kids who have been abused? The dramatizations and stories here don't match up with the reality, because if it were true then there would be hundreds of you guys protesting outside of programs. It's easy to sit on a computer and bitch about how difficult life was in the past, lots of people have blogs and do just that. But you think people care so much about this forum that they will send spies, come on and take a reality check please. Nobody cares about this forum other than yourselves, just in case you hadn't figured that out yet. Come on people, you are getting the point of being just sad. Are you trying to get pity from readers, is that it? If so bravo, because you come across like some sorry helpless people with mental illness desperately needing meds. You just need to accept the fact that you were just an unlucky few who had to deal with angry staff, and most people aren't treated that badly. If they were they'd be here all angry just like you are. More kids die in swimming pools than in programs every year, and you know what the parents might even feel that swimming should be outlawed if that happens to their family. But it doesn't mean that everyone else feels that way. Get out of our way, and let us in the pool. The water's fine.
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There are over 4000 registered posters on this site. Not a dozen. There are thousands and thousands of allegations of abuse on this site, many of which have been substantiated by the courts or the more recent GAO investigation and hearings on the matter. There are nearly 300 thousand posts on this site.
Just because some abuse survivors don't have the strength or hope to stick around here long term and hash things out doesn't at ALL mean that abuse doesn't happen. Many deal with their pain and move on. A few decide to stick around and help others so it doesn't keep happening.
A while back I wrote about 9 reasons to answer why so few come forward. I'll see if I can find it. It answers most of your questions.
In the mean time, I suggest you read some of the GAO reports on the matter, or watch a few videos:
http://troubled-teen-industry.com/video (http://troubled-teen-industry.com/video)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkmGgH11Dmk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkmGgH11Dmk)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THQ5AKk_QR4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THQ5AKk_QR4)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3X5gjsuTD1E (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3X5gjsuTD1E)
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So where are they? Where are all these kids who have been abused? The dramatizations and stories here don't match up with the reality, because if it were true then there would be hundreds of you guys protesting outside of programs.
I know at least a hundred other girls from the facility that I went to that either barely ever get on the internet or simply don't have any interest in using a forum, yet NONE of them are pro program. As Psy said most of them just choose to stuff the memories down and move on with their lives. A lot of them have kids now and demanding careers and the last thing they have time for is to post on a forum about something that happened to them 6-8 years ago. Honestly I can respect that, because the work we are doing here takes A LOT of effort and its something we do for free. I honestly couldn't imagine having to juggle this and a baby and a full time career, so I cant expect that from them. Not everyone is as lucky as I am to be able to work from home like I and a few others on this board do, as well many people are not as technically inclined as we have become. I can personally admit that Fornits seems like a scary mess of a forum when to a newcomer so I can't expect too many people to jump right in with us either. For the most part, Fornits is for the wind weathered veterans and although newbies and onlookers will post from time to time its not really the "support group" type of forum you would need in order to draw in the massive numbers of survivors out there.
I have been speaking out about the program since the day I got out, however I have a semi unique story... and the majority of the detainees of the facility I went to were not physically abused like I was... because the program only targets a select few kids that they can make an example of to keep the rest fearful enough not to question their authority. I believe strongly that this tactic helps them to discredit those who have spoken out about the abuse because for every person who says that they were physically abused there are 10 people who say they weren't. BUT I must point out that rarely do you come across an ex detainee that claims that these abusive tactics didn't exist, they might think it was good for them or that those who were abused deserved it, which in my opinion is a sadistic perspective but the FACT that the abuse exists in these programs never changes.
If what your saying is an accurate assumption, that our small group on this board is insignificant, then why have the programs sued us, hacked us, trolled us (as you have lol) and made their own sites to refute our claims and discredit us. The reason is because since we have channeled our efforts to provide the TRUTH about these programs, enrollment is WAY DOWN and the pull rate is WAY UP. Programs are losing money because their actions in the past have earned them a less than stellar reputation. Whats to say they wont start watching their asses now that we have made a stink about it, which ended up hitting them where it hurts, their pocket books. Now that a decent amount of foreign programs have been shut down, they might not have any choice but to STOP abusing kids. So in essence, if you have had a positive experience with the program it is probably because we have been hard at work to force them to change their ways. I will never advocate a program, but if anyone is doing anything right these days its because we PROVED to them the error of their ways. Some staff have even come here to apologize and have joined our movement, so why would they put their reputation on the line if we weren't making a difference here?...
Your probably a hit and run poster so I wont waste any more time on you, but honestly I suggest you take a good look at the big picture and re-educate yourself on this subject. Someday, these programs will be outlawed and the general public will all be aware of the dangers of the private teen prison industry and our years of dedication will have stood for the most precious gift we could offer our future generations. By then, you will probably have moved on yourself, involved with your own selfish triumphs and failures yet our efforts will have made a difference for the future and made this world a safer more loving place to live in.
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Another thing that might not get mentioned: not all kids even realize they were abused. As far as they often know (with no other concept of legitimate therapy), many of them might think of what happend to them as actually "therapy" as they were told, or beneficial in some sense. Many of them swallow the program's shtick hook, line and sinker, in that regard.
Another point: This site is unmoderated. If programs were really that beneficial, you don't think this site would be overpopulated with people praising the program? Don't you think if it were truly the case that these programs helped people that this site would be inundated with people protecting the places that "saved their lives". There is nothing stopping that from happening.
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Ok ok. Im not totally against the idea... it just sounds like a conspiracy theory, a theory that could very well be true.
Yea, Im honestly shocked to see people posting about killing people. I really dont think thats anything any of us would do.
As well most of us dont even do drugs.
So he could have a point.
It isn't whether he/she has a point or not. Agree or disagree that's up to you. Just don't belittle him/her for having a point of view. Save that sort of thing for those who deserve it.
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BUT I must point out that rarely do you come across an ex detainee that claims that these abusive tactics didn't exist
It's important, though, to phrase the question correctly. If you ask: "were kids abused", the answer is likely to be "no". If you ask "were kids encouraged to verballly or physically attack each other"... or "were kids locked up in isolation rooms for extended periods of time" or "did this type of restraint happen" or "did the program lie to you or your parents" and so on and so forth. Ask for specifics, and you'll find the accounts of what goes on in programs is pretty much uniform. Abuse can be reframed as "therapy" or "help" if a person has no other concept in his head of what "therapy" or "help" is.
I recommend you (the guest) read a book or watch a video such as this one on cults to educate yourself in how this reframing process works.
http://www.csj.org/pub_csj/csjvideorevi ... iew112.htm (http://www.csj.org/pub_csj/csjvideoreview/csj_videoreview112.htm)
If you still don't get how programs can work, I recommend you rent or buy "Over the GW".
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Most kids who claim they weren't abused will, with the right sort of questions, tell you all about how they saw someone else abused. That is why I try to remind myself to not to get to focused on the whole terminology of, "The program saved me, I'd be dead, I'd.. I'd.. I'd.. be snorting crack up my ass with a straw today it wasn't for the program." By ignoring that and getting the person to answer specific questions about the program.. Starting with general day to day routine questions you can learn all sorts of crazy shit.
I used to have an interview up about a girl who did a stint at SUWs. She was absolutely convinced that the program saved her. I ignored all of that and in the space of about 10 questions found out that SUWs of Carolinas had a shitty success rate and they did strip searches during their admissions process. All from a girl who still to this day believes SUWs saved her. I talk to her every now and then on yahoo and she still praises SUWs. I can't say I care.. She can feel the way she wants to feel. It's up to her.. I suspect that she'll put the pieces of the puzzle together once she graduates high school and moves out on her own. It's a whole lot easier to say SUWs sucks when your mom and dad can't send you back for a "tune up".
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These are the fundamental questions that teens arrive at on their own, often while they are still in the programs.
An individual's impression of events as they unfold help to tell the story up to any given point. People are complex and come up with all sorts of reasons to explain how they could wind up in any of their given circumstances. They may blame a mother, a father, the fact they were adopted, a step parent, a real life physical or sexual abuse incident or relationship, anything including themselves.
The programs' function is to exploit these causes and create a faux bond with the child that is through repeated coercive tactics rewarded for bonding with the program and staying put (the parent's wish).
There is much at play in the mind of an adolescent who has been sent to a facility that bills itself in the way behavior modification schools, or troubled teen bootcamp type places do. Things twist in his head, and there are all sorts of reasons why they may not spend the time and energy diving back into the most troublesome and powerless time of their lives ten years later...you see what I'm saying?
People are harmed when you make them do and say and think things that are contrary to their own individual nature. Many become accustomed to discomfort and think it's the norm, you need to take so many things into consideration in the broad swipe of whether these programs do good or harm or both. Situationally speaking, the parents and existing system has already failed these kids. Why should the step which often fundamentally changes (damages. I'll say it again: damages) some kids forever really be any different?
:boycott:
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Most kids who claim they weren't abused will, with the right sort of questions, tell you all about how they saw someone else abused. That is why I try to remind myself to not to get to focused on the whole terminology of, "The program saved me, I'd be dead, I'd.. I'd.. I'd.. be snorting crack up my ass with a straw today it wasn't for the program." By ignoring that and getting the person to answer specific questions about the program.. Starting with general day to day routine questions you can learn all sorts of crazy shit.
I used to have an interview up about a girl who did a stint at SUWs. She was absolutely convinced that the program saved her. I ignored all of that and in the space of about 10 questions found out that SUWs of Carolinas had a shitty success rate and they did strip searches during their admissions process. All from a girl who still to this day believes SUWs saved her. I talk to her every now and then on yahoo and she still praises SUWs. I can't say I care.. She can feel the way she wants to feel. It's up to her.. I suspect that she'll put the pieces of the puzzle together once she graduates high school and moves out on her own. It's a whole lot easier to say SUWs sucks when your mom and dad can't send you back for a "tune up".
Che, the Survivor Whisperer.
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hahaha... what a riot! I think I'll just go back to posting my usual boring shit, which no one generally responds to anyway... :D
Just because I don't respond doesn't mean I don't read it!
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hahaha... what a riot! I think I'll just go back to posting my usual boring shit, which no one generally responds to anyway... :D
Just because I don't respond doesn't mean I don't read it!
Same here. I always read Ursus's stuff, even though I might not always respond.
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Ursus, rest be assured, I always read the first two inches. The question remains.. Horizontally or vertically? :NINJA:
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The insanity here must be contagious. There are only a handful of people who ever find and read this forum. Even less take it seriously enough to come back and post on a regular basis. This industry has dealt with tens of thousands, possibly hundreds of thousands of youths. Where are they? Most people have internet access now. You really got to wonder, if programs were as abusive and torturous as some here claim why wouldn't there be more people posting about it? As far as I can tell, the anti program "movement" is a half dozen people with different websites and acronyms which accomplish nothing other than online bantering. This small core group of "activists" can't even get along for more than 5 minutes, your cause is hopeless if that is any indication. So where are they? Where are all these kids who have been abused? The dramatizations and stories here don't match up with the reality, because if it were true then there would be hundreds of you guys protesting outside of programs.
Where are these silent survivors? Proving Solomon Asch's experiments on social conformity CORRECT. The noise of the crowd affects the way one perceives the situation, even to the point of preferring to be wrong rather than go against the status quo.
Funny thing is, they're still reading fornits... Go figure. The read numbers on threads vastly exceeds the posting activity. They're probably thinking about what they read, as well.
Asch's experiments also showed that when even one member of the group broke rank and opted for the correct answer, it drastically reduced the propensity for others to conform to an incorrect status quo.