Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Straight, Inc. and Derivatives => Topic started by: Anonymous on January 03, 2009, 08:33:51 AM
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I have been watching the board on the sidelines for awhile now. I can't believe how rough you all still are on each other. I have seen survivors rip new board comers to part for the simplist post. I've seen people rip Richard, Marti apart and yet they are the very ones that got all of you out. I have seen people say nasty things about those two and many others especially new people to the board. It is no wonder that few survivors get better. I applaud that we have this board but I would have thought after all this time, survivors would be more compassionate an understanding with each other. A friend told me to post here is to take you life in your own hands (rofl). What they meant is , that no matter how well intentioned the post the poster will be ripped to shreds or called a liar or just plain put through the coals for even saying anything. Even if that post was about something as mundane as how is the weather.
Ginger perhaps there is a way to make a board for those that wish to truly get better and for those that wish to try and help each other deal with issues.
There are some good post here too so I do not mean to say it is all negative. I didnt want to post but felt i should. Ok floor is open have me for lunch.
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Biker Bar:
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=26332#p320757 (http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=26332#p320757)
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I have been watching the board on the sidelines for awhile now. I can't believe how rough you all still are on each other. I have seen survivors rip new board comers to part for the simplist post. I've seen people rip Richard, Marti apart and yet they are the very ones that got all of you out. I have seen people say nasty things about those two and many others especially new people to the board. It is no wonder that few survivors get better. I applaud that we have this board but I would have thought after all this time, survivors would be more compassionate an understanding with each other. A friend told me to post here is to take you life in your own hands (rofl). What they meant is , that no matter how well intentioned the post the poster will be ripped to shreds or called a liar or just plain put through the coals for even saying anything. Even if that post was about something as mundane as how is the weather.
Ginger perhaps there is a way to make a board for those that wish to truly get better and for those that wish to try and help each other deal with issues.
There are some good post here too so I do not mean to say it is all negative. I didnt want to post but felt i should. Ok floor is open have me for lunch.
There is a multitude of good information here. Unfortunately, it can be a program's dream or nightmare depending on the dynamics of the posts. The biggest problem I have here is with the anonymous posting. I can understand in some cases where posting anonymous would be acceptable, but when people misuse this function and attack people as if they were someone other than themselves, it seems to do more harm than good. If the people who post here on Fornits were at least held accountable for what they write, I think it would be a great improvement. I have seen other forums that won't allow me to do anything unless I register and provide my information. I guess my suggestion would be to make only a few threads for guests that would like to post anonymously and if they wish to engage in other topics, they can register and have (ONE) identity. Anyone who posts as anonymous has no business attacking anyone, that is just allowing cowardice.
I like some aspects about this so-called biker bar, but I would like it more if it was a place for reasonable conversation where good people don't get scared off because the biker bar is full of children most of the time. Anonymity and confidentiality are the rules of programs, they like to keep everything hidden and "unknown". Programs like to keep their victims in an umbra and they do this by restricting information and hiding the true nature of themselves. Isn't this at least a weak argument to consider the damaging effects of an almost un-moderated forum? I am focusing on the negatives I see here without presenting the positives because I think the positives go without saying. I also wish people would stop attacking people and then running behind their "Survivor" status as a defense. That is a weak response. If anyone is so very hurt from the programs, which I think almost all of us were, don't go around picking fights and attacking people. Just because someone gets hurt really bad, it doesn't give them the right to treat people like shit, make piss-poor decisions and then not be held accountable because they are a "Survivor". This is insulting to everyone who has been in a program.
I guess the Original Poster hit a sore spot with me. I used to think there were provocateurs all over Fornits possibly working for programs, but now I think maybe it is just a bunch of immature antagonists that don't know how to direct their anger, inadvertantly or purposely eroding productive measures. If some people want to do this, that is fine by me, but I would rather it be contained chaos rather than open amongst all of Fornits. Good people will leave because of this, valuable people will leave and people who may have the ability and desire to aid us in our efforts to shut down programs will turn away. If this forum is for healing, then why are attacks allowed, if it is for activism, why is there so little rational discussion and action? I hate to think that Fornits hurts the very cause that it stands for. I would like to see a short, rational discussion about why allowing so many anonymous posters is accepted and if the positives outweigh the negatives.
I have expressed my dissent.
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got me out? wtf? what sort of crap is that? got me out like as in rescued me?ummmm no didnt happen that way.I rescued me.Thats right ,self rescue ,the first thing you get taught in climbing school.straight fucked me.I 7 stepped,so I fucked them,then I had to unfuck me.I dont shred survivors.Why would I? To what end? What would be my profit motive? I freed me.
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When the cauldron under the gurgling mudbubbles explodes in Yellowstone, none of this board will matter anymore... :roflmao:
whenever I post anonymously as some name I come up with to suit my mood, I am not anonymous, I am posting as the person I feel like at the time. besides, everyone knows who I am when I post anyways, so what difference does it make?
I saw "cowardice" written, uh oh, like that poster knows all about that, right? :roflmao:
you guys are a trip.. where's the addicted to Fornits emoticon?
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Just a note: this forum is not for healing specifically. It's for open discusison of the issue with a similar function to alt.religion.scientology. Similar to that group, you wouldn't' find many fragile ex-cult members there. You would find them on support groups, like those who exist for survivors of abuse in programs.
If you want a vacation in a moderated place to post with no personal attacks, try the facilities questions and answers forum, the CAN forum, or the new forum I started on troubled-teen-industry.com.
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I agree with most of the first two posters. I have to say this though, Ginger is an avid believer in free speech and I have alot of respect for her for that, she has defended it to her own peril at times. However, we all must realize that with the freedom of free speech comes those that use words to help and those that use words to hurt. Gingers contribution to survivors I think is immeasureable. All survivors , or almost all have done what they can to help. As for me, all I did was close the program and help where I could over the years. I appreciate what guest said but I did only what I felt I had to at the time. No more, no less. Richard did the same thing, he and I did what we felt was right and what we felt we could do at the time. Often, I know I have felt that it wasn't enough. I know too that I regret anyone I hurt in Straight. I know that Sammy has put herself , her emotions on the line more than once, I know Mike has tackled his own reservations and stood up to them when the survivors needed him. I know Ginger has always been there providing what she can and many other survivors have done alot to help. Yes, there are those that do things that hurt more than help but I see those as wounded people that need the rest of us.I hope that came out right , I just meant that if we look at the attacks as coming from someone who is hurting we all might respond differently.
I agree that a board that is geared toward helping or offering a place where survivors can talk about what is going on with them without the fear of being torn apart is needed. The sad thing is I don't think any of us survived Straight with no damage, nor do I think that many of us would ever go to a counselor again. So, in that, Straight made sure not only to do permanent damage but to make sure we could never seek help for it either.So, we really only have each other.
If Ginger is willing to make another board, I would be willing to participate with it along with the second poster. We would need another name for the board though and I do think registeration is a plus.
Perhaps it could be a protected board of some sort where all could talk about what is going on with them the good and the bad and or make suggestions to help survivors get justice. That would be up to Ginger though.
I normally don't post on here but maybe once a year or so. What we have to realize though as I said before I don;t think any of us came out smelling rosey from Straight therefore, all of us have issues that permanent, buttons that can be pushed, damage that really cant be fixed. That is the sad thing , Straight did do permanent damage to everyone not just emotional or mental but financial as well. So, there is a host of damage on this board and throwing that all together can get rough at times.
I don't think any of us are qualified to help fix what Straight did, but I do think we can listen to each other and try to help build each other up instead of tear each other down.
So, you will have to ask ginger if she can put a board like that up.
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This is a fair question and I do respect and appreciate all of your views. The trouble is that what you're asking for can never be. Look here:
http://www.google.com/search?q=define%3 ... =firefox-a (http://www.google.com/search?q=define%3Autopia&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=com.ubuntu:en-US:unofficial&client=firefox-a)
There are sooooo many different ideas and definitions of Utopia, but only the Israeli government site seems to have something close to the original definition:
Utopia - an imaginary plan for a perfect society, government etc. - - an imaginary concept that cannot exist in reality. Utopian – ideal, imaginary, illusory; unattainable in reality.
If I were to try to host and moderate a forum just for program vets/survivors who want to help and support each other and never be unkind or hurtful, how do I determine who those people are? And even if I were somehow able to verify everyone's identities and good intentions at the moment they make application to join this exclusive clique, what the hell am I supposed to do when someone's in a fucked off mood and turns ugly? Thanks for all the high praise, but you must be out of your cotton pickin' mind if you think I'm able to do that! Shit! I don't think any human being is really capable of properly and gently judging others to that degree. But me? Ohhhh, fuck! :timeout:
I have to go to work now. Maybe I'll come back and complete this thought, but for now the best I can offer you is that here there are no controls on information. State your name or not. Tell the truth or lie your ass off. Believe what you read or not. Not my call.
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I think your absolutely right Ginger however, I think maybe the second poster or relay it correctly. No, there is no way for you to monitor and determine those there to help not to mention it would be playing God. I think what they were asking for is a board where pehaps registration is required, no real verification (object being no guest post), then when registering maybe a note on the purpose of the board that its there for the help of survivors or however it would be put. Then leave the rest to the survivors and those survivors posting there if things got ugly could post replies saying that you know this or that is not helpful. The idea being that those registering would know that , that board is there to help the survivors deal with stuff, so only those that really want a place to talk or whatever have it and they have the backing of the other survivors / posters. I think the survivors should take "monitoring" part of it although i know to set one up you have to name an administrator.
Asking you to be judge, jury is not only unrealistic as you say but impossiable. I think they are just asking for another board where survivors can go where the atmosphere is a bit different.
You may be right that it may turn out just like another bar but then again , maybe not.You know i don't support clique's. We are all at different stages of getting over what happened to us. I think the other poster is asking for a board that the survivors monitor where someone can go where attacks won't really be supported by those on that board, does that make sense. I am finding it hard to describe what i think that poster is asking for and keep in mind I could be wrong about what they want.
Ginger , they are not words of kindness but words of truth and I mean that. We all need each other when it comes to dealing with Straight and you should be given kudos for all your efforts because you didnt have to do it, you didnt have to care, the same is true of Richard, Mike, Sammy etc . I think people should be know your efforts, I think survivors should know you care. I also think you deserve credit for all you have done. I have seen many get angry at you , me, richard other survivors but I am of the opinion that if those "angry" people got to know those they attack they might feel differently. You have been threatned with lawsuits and fought back and kept fornits up, which is why we are even able to discuss this, you have paid for alot of webspace and helped Wes with his site. That is something i respect alot. I have lost it on the board before because I am human but that is not my total make up. I think we as survivors should stress the good in our fellow survivors and not so much on the negative or what we disagree with it.
Anyway, if the second poster elaborates on what they want maybe that would help.
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As for me, all I did was close the program and help where I could over the years.
Puh-leaze!
Let's pat ourselves on the back a bit more, how 'bout it?
You closed Straight fucking Incorporated, and I suppose you did it all by yourself? Yeah, come to think of it I do remember you leading the assault on that Open Meeting, shooting Miller Newton in the face, and.........oh, I'm sorry, I'm just reminescing about things I would think about to get me through anothwer day at that hellhole---you know, the one you closed.
I'm not saying you haven't done anything to help, but I think it's just a tiny bit presumptuous of you to make the claim that "all I did was close the program".
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And another thing...... "STRAIGHT INC" is not closed, not really...
Same shit, different century.....
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MH, thanks so much for your kind words and good deeds. It just happens that, right now, I really needed to hear some of that.
As far as hosting a registered users only forum, I'm just not that interested. There's the Alumni list and I think Kathy has a forum set up on FICA, Kim/Todd have one for KNJ and there are probably a lot of others that I don't know about. That market is served.
And it's not really the conversation I want to have cause I'm just damaged that way. I'll drop in on those other forums and say hi once in awhile. Not saying my way is the only way or anything. Just that this here wild west anarchistic no holds barred approach is the one that intrigues me. Sure, it gets ugly much of the time. But what else can you expect of an honest conversation about the Program? A civil, pleasant conversation on this topic wouldn't have much real content.
Besides that, despite all the sincere displeasure and complaints, the fact is that these forums (though down in traffic lately for a variety of reasons) continue to be the most popular. Despite what people say, everyone loves a brawl. Add to that Al Capone's very wise observation that any publicity is good publicity. No matter what anyone says about the Program, even if it's a bald faced lie or an astounding example of self deception, they're talking about it and Google is finding those keywords. Even if someone can keep themselves thoroughly convinced that the Program is or was good, all sides and viewpoints are represented here and that has given the topic some credence that it might not otherwise have had. In other words, as long as people are talking about it no matter in what manner, then people are hearing/reading about it. Where 20 years ago nobody even believed us, now at least most people know that the Program exists even if they haven't quite wrapped their minds around the whole scope of it.
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I have been watching the board on the sidelines for awhile now. I can't believe how rough you all still are on each other. I have seen survivors rip new board comers to part for the simplist post. I've seen people rip Richard, Marti apart and yet they are the very ones that got all of you out. I have seen people say nasty things about those two and many others especially new people to the board. It is no wonder that few survivors get better. I applaud that we have this board but I would have thought after all this time, survivors would be more compassionate an understanding with each other. A friend told me to post here is to take you life in your own hands (rofl). What they meant is , that no matter how well intentioned the post the poster will be ripped to shreds or called a liar or just plain put through the coals for even saying anything. Even if that post was about something as mundane as how is the weather.
Ginger perhaps there is a way to make a board for those that wish to truly get better and for those that wish to try and help each other deal with issues.
There are some good post here too so I do not mean to say it is all negative. I didnt want to post but felt i should. Ok floor is open have me for lunch.
What's your point? :rofl:
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got me out? wtf? what sort of crap is that? got me out like as in rescued me?ummmm no didnt happen that way.I rescued me.Thats right ,self rescue ,the first thing you get taught in climbing school.straight fucked me.I 7 stepped,so I fucked them,then I had to unfuck me.I dont shred survivors.Why would I? To what end? What would be my profit motive? I freed me.
:cheers: :rocker: :tup: :nods: :notworthy:
I can appreciate what they've done 'for the cause' (as I can appreciate what many others have done also), but puleeeeeeeeeeeeze! Neither had any part in 'getting me out' of anywhere. What would prompt you to post such a thing?
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Jeeze! Maybe that comment wasn't directed to you personally? Honest to God, I know who said that and it's no bullshit. This person went to the authorities, along with a few others, and somehow actually got their attention. The Sarasota branch was shut down as a direct result of that action. Not only that but they also went on 60 Minutes and pressed the issue there. I saw that episode. I recognized a couple of the people. How many parents finally wised up and pulled their kids because of that? It's for real. We'll never know about all those kids who never even heard of Straight because of this person's efforts, but these folks absolutely did get people out in those ways. I happen to believe, though can't prove beyond a shadow of a doubt, that they also personally helped individual friends either get out or survive once they got themselves out.
Why you lookin' ta pick a fight?
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I have been watching the board on the sidelines for awhile now. I can't believe how rough you all still are on each other. I have seen survivors rip new board comers to part for the simplist post. I've seen people rip Richard, Marti apart and yet they are the very ones that got all of you out. I have seen people say nasty things about those two and many others especially new people to the board. It is no wonder that few survivors get better. I applaud that we have this board but I would have thought after all this time, survivors would be more compassionate an understanding with each other.
Look like the sidelines is exactly where you belong. :rofl: If you think it's so damn rough around here, then i guess you must be some kinda pussy or something. When and where have you seen survivors rip "new board comers to part for the simplist post" [sic]? (English must be your 2nd language, eh?) Pics or it didn't happen.
Like the others said, no one got me out but me; you can piss off with remarks like that!!
And who says few survivors get better? What crap!! If you want compassion, stop posting NONSENSE for a change!!! :beat:
I don't know who you are, and don't care. Go crawl back into the sewer that you slithered out of. Take the slime with you.
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Jeeze! Maybe that comment wasn't directed to you personally? Honest to God, I know who said that and it's no bullshit. This person went to the authorities, along with a few others, and somehow actually got their attention. The Sarasota branch was shut down as a direct result of that action. Not only that but they also went on 60 Minutes and pressed the issue there. I saw that episode. I recognized a couple of the people. How many parents finally wised up and pulled their kids because of that? It's for real. We'll never know about all those kids who never even heard of Straight because of this person's efforts, but these folks absolutely did get people out in those ways. I happen to believe, though can't prove beyond a shadow of a doubt, that they also personally helped individual friends either get out or survive once they got themselves out.
Why you lookin' ta pick a fight?
I'm not. Not at all. Speaking for myself only, this is what got my attention:
I've seen people rip Richard, Marti apart and yet they are the very ones that got all of you out.
I said that I very much appreciated what they've done and I mean that.
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yet they are the very ones that got all of you out.
how do you figure? lol... I know plenty of people that didn't escape the bonds of straight and are still suffering or are dead because of it. how did they help with that exactly? eh? wtf?
and if that's the case why haven't they gotten out all the kids still in Straight? aka Pathway Family Center, KHK etc. etc. etc.?
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Jeeze! Maybe that comment wasn't directed to you personally? Honest to God, I know who said that and it's no bullshit. This person went to the authorities, along with a few others, and somehow actually got their attention. The Sarasota branch was shut down as a direct result of that action. Not only that but they also went on 60 Minutes and pressed the issue there. I saw that episode. I recognized a couple of the people. How many parents finally wised up and pulled their kids because of that? It's for real. We'll never know about all those kids who never even heard of Straight because of this person's efforts, but these folks absolutely did get people out in those ways. I happen to believe, though can't prove beyond a shadow of a doubt, that they also personally helped individual friends either get out or survive once they got themselves out.
Why you lookin' ta pick a fight?
That's a big problem I have. I never know who is talking to who half the time.
And I just wanted to voice my opinions here, I am not requesting changes. People post anonymously for various reasons, what I have noticed is that some are abusing this feature by using it as an avoidance of accountability when they probably know what they are spouting is hurting the cause against programs or just hurting people. I don't have a problem with people being childish and counter-productive, I have a problem when these jokers do it anonymously, which in my mind, is a blatent disregard for why there is an anonymous feature.
My point was, programs keep things hidden. I don't like the idea of a forum where any idiot from a program, for a program, or just has a secret agenda against another "survivor" can scurry away from a response because they posted anonymously, (aka: hiding).
When people do searches on search engines for program information, many are directed to Fornits. That's how I found this forum and I think it is excellent that Fornits exists bescause of that. Fornits is also a huge source of information joining programs as the same big problem, which is how it should be viewed. I never meant to take away from the positives of this forum and I did not intend to direct any of my concerns toward any one person. I thought it important to bring up because it was on my mind.
Now when parents go a-searchin for information because their gut is telling them somethin aint right and they find Fornits, well this is the opportunity to get their attention and interest and hopefully educate them enough to pull their kid. There is certainly no utopia, but there can be improvement on good ideas and that was my assertion. There doesn't need to be any change and there doesn't need to be any alternatives or answers. Ideas should be presented and things should probably move slowly, if at all. Discussion is what I am looking for. I want to know if I am seeing things correctly and what the disagreements are.
Freedom of speech.....I believe in it. I don't believe in abusing this freedom by hiding behind an anonymous status. Anonymous is a feature that allows people to feel safe when they are uneasy about their identity being displayed. Is there any reason why anyone posting anonymously should be doing so when they already have a registered user name or use this feature to attack people they disagree with (sometimes in collaboration with themselves)? This use of the feature seems more sinister than protective. Most of what I have seen has nothing to do with legal implication protection as some have pointed out so I find it hard to believe that this feature is being used appropriately most of the time.
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Freedom of speech.....I believe in it. I don't believe in abusing this freedom by hiding behind an anonymous status. Anonymous is a feature that allows people to feel safe when they are uneasy about their identity being displayed. Is there any reason why anyone posting anonymously should be doing so when they already have a registered user name or use this feature to attack people they disagree with (sometimes in collaboration with themselves)? This use of the feature seems more sinister than protective. Most of what I have seen has nothing to do with legal implication protection as some have pointed out so I find it hard to believe that this feature is being used appropriately most of the time.
Yes. I've seen good things come out of that as well. People post anon sometimes just to try and avoid the trolls and stalkers. Or sometimes because they want something out there, off their chest, but don't really want everyone to know it's them speaking. Often, the conflict turns out to be bullshit and the one under attack gets the opportunity to address it and repair a friendship or at least correct some disinfo. Would they post this vital info if they couldn't do it anonymously? Maybe some would but not often.
Oh, and hey, I did sort of dream this up all on my own out of musings on reducing the Program to the lowest common denominator and then inverting that. At least that's all I knew at the time. However the idea of protected anonymous speech as a vital tenet of free speech goes way back.
If we may collect the sentiments of the people of America, from their own most solemn declarations, they hold this truth as self-evident, that all men are by nature free. No one man, therefore, or any class of men, have a right, by the law of nature, or of God, to assume or exercise authority over their fellows. The origin of society, then, is to be sought, not in any natural right which one man has to exercise authority over another, but in the united consent of those who associate.
http://www.wepin.com/articles/afp/afp84.html (http://www.wepin.com/articles/afp/afp84.html)
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If you took away the anonymous feature, there'd probably be less than 4 posters on the Hyde forum over the course of any given year. I can tell you, that'd make for some mighty stimulating conversation.
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My point was, programs keep things hidden. I don't like the idea of a forum where any idiot from a program, for a program, or just has a secret agenda against another "survivor" can scurry away from a response because they posted anonymously, (aka: hiding).
Yes they do, they keep SHIT hidden, alright!! ::fullofshit:: :clown: ::fullofshit:: :clown: ::fullofshit:: :clown:
It's about time they pulled the chain on the side of their heads and flushed their MINDS!!! :rofl:
I don't like it either, tony!!! It fuckin' STINKS, I tell ya!!!! Goddam anonymous posters!!!! :flame: :flame:
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My point was, programs keep things hidden.
Then by the same token, we could ask the question: Didn't programs insist we reveal everything about ourselves, and wouldn't a requirement that everyone reveal their identity be similar to a program, too? Food for thought, eh?
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The saddest part about fornits is when it attracts people who seriously think they can use it to do some good.
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The saddest part about fornits is when it attracts people who seriously think they can use it to do some good.
Regardless of what you migth think about Fornits, it is a good place for discussion and networking. Maybe not everything happens here, but a lot of it starts here.
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My point was, programs keep things hidden.
Then by the same token, we could ask the question: Didn't programs insist we reveal everything about ourselves, and wouldn't a requirement that everyone reveal their identity be similar to a program, too? Food for thought, eh?
I would answer your question if you weren't posting anonymously.
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The saddest part about fornits is when it attracts people who seriously think they can use it to do some good.
Regardless of what you migth think about Fornits, it is a good place for discussion and networking. Maybe not everything happens here, but a lot of it starts here.
That's true, Fornits was the first place I found info about KHK when I did a search. And I do think good connections start here. After a while, the people on here to just have fun or those who just want to take out their anger on others start to grind down the overall spirit of fighting programs. I have always had mixed emotions about Fornits, but there is a lot of good that grows from it.
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I will always be in support of a free un-moderated forum because the latter, could only be a place where one of our admins would have to take on a totalitarian role (as Antigen mentioned) and that would be very much against everything that we stand for. I think the anonymity is not just about free speech, its about freedom itself, maybe pushing the boundries a little but feeling free to do so with out consequence. I myself don't post anonymously, (in the sense that I purposefully don't sign in), but I don't look down on anyone who does. I think A LOT of good content and conversation starters have come from the "guests" and I am grateful for their presence weather they choose to sign into an account or not. I don't understand why it matters so much, on most other forums, people usually post as guests simply to give their opinion and who cares if they ever come back again because most often a good conversation ensues.
On the topic of people abusing the anon feature, that is just the way of the internet and the way of the world. Some people will always take advantage of what ever system they can in order to satisfy their nature. If the Napster guy hadn't taken advantage of the internet to create a free system to share music files we would all still be paying $20 for new CD's. As just well if our "guests" of honor didn't take advantage of the opportunity to bash on someone they believe is stupid I wouldn't have had half the chuckles I've thoroughly enjoyed recently. Here's the thing tho, a lot of people (like you) come to Fornits and start off the tone with "ugh... Fornits sucks" and in that case really, what do you expect? A fucking care package?... lol get real. Honestly I love this atmosphere, I came from another forum that was overly moderated (pretty much the only posters were moderators) and it also had an administrator who was excessively self centered and wanted to make that website about HIM not about the purpose of talking about the program. He also found it appropriate to ban his loyal and dedicated members (moderators too) for personal vendetta so I really have nothing but praise for the stance that the admins of Fornits have. I would take a free for all any day to a boring ol coombiyah circle jerk.
Basically if you cant hang then GTFO. There are other sites that provide survivor support groups, and I do think that another one is in the works over at www.troubled-teen-industry.com (http://www.troubled-teen-industry.com) so if you feel more comfortable somewhere else by all means please go there. For the most part it should be common knowledge not to take anything a random person on the internet says personally or even seriously. There will always be trolls, and or people with personal axes to grind but realistically that is only a few people who have ever posted here. Fornits might get a bad rep because of it but I am of the opinion that if you took the time to read through the posts you would see way more valuable content than trolling nonsense. To blame the whole forum for that is truly ignorant and wont earn you too many friends around here. Insulting the Fornits members and the policies that they are proud to uphold wont really get you to far on this board, as I'm sure your already aware. The thing is, I have never seen anyone guest or not attack someone who didnt start off the tone in a judgmental asshole way (unless of course they are a program parent or former staff)... and just as in life, you reap what you sow... Fornits delivers.
:ftard:
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FF2,
First I would like to say I do appreciate the fact that you did not post anonymously here and seem to be true to your word when you say you do not. I have not agreed with many things you have said on Fornits but that is Free Speech and I respect them as your opinions.
Could you please elaborate on what you meant when you wrote,"Fornits members"? I have been posting on Fornits for over a year and I am not sure if I am one of these members of which you speak.
I would agree that a nazi-like forum would be a horrible thing to engage oneself in. Just go to soberrecovery.com forums and see how long they let you have free speech. Try to bad talk any program and you'll be escorted off the page. However, your view of forums seems black and white, whereas there are many grey areas in life that are more healthy and deliver a better mix.
So it looks like we agree on some things and disagree on others. That is a good thing. Disagreements will always happen and should, it is only normal. But here we sit writing as kids are being brainwashed and abused, sometimes killed as we watch Fornits for a chuckle. I'm sorry about what happened to all these people who were messed up in programs but I don't come here (most of the time) for a chuckle. This is serious business and from what I have read from you, it is serious to you also.
I think it is possible to have moderate rules that make good sense without being totalitarian.
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Ginger, thank-you, I really appreciate what you said.
I saw the post but I wasnt going to respond because the individual obviously didnt have any facts and for that poster I dont know what program you were in but Richard did close St. Pete. You said oh you didnt close them all, Im sorry I did what i could in my home town an then was busy falling apart. Perhaps you could be more productive if you stopped the attacks and tried to be part of the solution. If you 7th stepped as you say, and "got yourself out" thats good but did you think of those you left behind, there is a difference between thinking of those still in and due to damage suffered in Straight not being able to help because of where one is emotionally and not even thinking of them at all. You seem to be self consumned , unlike the survivors that have put their names, money, family on the line to help others - those include Ginger , Richard, Sammy , Mike , Chris and many others.
What i really here in your post is anger and guilt but not at me, it seems you jumped right on it and perhaps feel guilty that you may not have been part of the solution even to this day, thats ok, no time like the present to start. No one should feel guilty about not doing something right after getting out , we had all just been through hell. Yes, I went to the authorities and closed it and Straight St. Pete begin to shuffle money and things which in turn woke Richard up, Richard closed St.Pete , Richards action in turn prompted others to go after other Florida programs, so we were all working together without knowing it. I found it difficult that you would actually be angry that Richard and I didnt close all programs. Do you have any idea what it took out of me to do what little I did do, no of course you don't, BTW I also worked with another survivor to start ISAC and we went after many other programs , and lauched several rescue missions of those still in, that survivor and I risked our family, our finances. Ginger has been sued, threatned lawsuits, put money in the board, paid for us to meet here, Richard has put thousands into efforts to get semblers under oath, sammy put herself and her emotions on national television and founded survivors of straight, for all of us revisiting it all was emotionally VERY hard.
If you poster have not been part of the solution thats ok, some can some cant. There were times I couldnt get involved because I just couldnt.
But if you cant be part of the solution perhaps you shouldnt attack those that are doing what they can to get justice. I am sorry that we didnt close all the programs, but I know I did what I could and could do no more.
Perhaps you could not post anon but tell us who you are since you seem so angry. BTW its because Ginger cares and does put her money where her mouth is that you are even able to post here and meet other survivors and talk. Its because of Richard that St. Pete was closed if you were there, how many lives did he save because the never went into an intake because the program wasnt there. Yet, all you have to say is "yeah but yall didnt close all the programs".
Your opinon of me does not strike me as important but those survivors i mentioned have earned respect because they cared and still do.
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Ginger, thank-you, I really appreciate what you said.
I saw the post but I wasnt going to respond because the individual obviously didnt have any facts and for that poster I dont know what program you were in but Richard did close St. Pete. You said oh you didnt close them all, Im sorry I did what i could in my home town an then was busy falling apart. Perhaps you could be more productive if you stopped the attacks and tried to be part of the solution. If you 7th stepped as you say, and "got yourself out" thats good but did you think of those you left behind, there is a difference between thinking of those still in and due to damage suffered in Straight not being able to help because of where one is emotionally and not even thinking of them at all. You seem to be self consumned , unlike the survivors that have put their names, money, family on the line to help others - those include Ginger , Richard, Sammy , Mike , Chris and many others.
What i really here in your post is anger and guilt but not at me, it seems you jumped right on it and perhaps feel guilty that you may not have been part of the solution even to this day, thats ok, no time like the present to start. No one should feel guilty about not doing something right after getting out , we had all just been through hell. Yes, I went to the authorities and closed it and Straight St. Pete begin to shuffle money and things which in turn woke Richard up, Richard closed St.Pete , Richards action in turn prompted others to go after other Florida programs, so we were all working together without knowing it. I found it difficult that you would actually be angry that Richard and I didnt close all programs. Do you have any idea what it took out of me to do what little I did do, no of course you don't, BTW I also worked with another survivor to start ISAC and we went after many other programs , and lauched several rescue missions of those still in, that survivor and I risked our family, our finances. Ginger has been sued, threatned lawsuits, put money in the board, paid for us to meet here, Richard has put thousands into efforts to get semblers under oath, sammy put herself and her emotions on national television and founded survivors of straight, for all of us revisiting it all was emotionally VERY hard.
If you poster have not been part of the solution thats ok, some can some cant. There were times I couldnt get involved because I just couldnt.
But if you cant be part of the solution perhaps you shouldnt attack those that are doing what they can to get justice. I am sorry that we didnt close all the programs, but I know I did what I could and could do no more.
Perhaps you could not post anon but tell us who you are since you seem so angry. BTW its because Ginger cares and does put her money where her mouth is that you are even able to post here and meet other survivors and talk. Its because of Richard that St. Pete was closed if you were there, how many lives did he save because the never went into an intake because the program wasnt there. Yet, all you have to say is "yeah but yall didnt close all the programs".
Your opinon of me does not strike me as important but those survivors i mentioned have earned respect because they cared and still do.
Richard " Hey Mel, I got your penis pump!" Bradbury is one hell of an inspiration. There goes a man with a pair of huevos rancheros the size of cruise missiles.
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My point was, programs keep things hidden.
Then by the same token, we could ask the question: Didn't programs insist we reveal everything about ourselves, and wouldn't a requirement that everyone reveal their identity be similar to a program, too? Food for thought, eh?
I would answer your question if you weren't posting anonymously.
Ok tony, logged in now, and re-posing the question...
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You said oh you didnt close them all, Im sorry I did what i could in my home town an then was busy falling apart.
No, a couple of people responded to the poster who was chastising people for questioning you with this comment, "I've seen people rip Richard, Marti apart and yet they are the very ones that got all of you out."
Someone had/has a problem with that part of the post. That's all. They had nothing to do with me getting out and it looks like others too.
Perhaps you could be more productive if you stopped the attacks and tried to be part of the solution.
Blow it out your ass. I'm so fucking sick and tired of hearing that.
If you 7th stepped as you say, and "got yourself out" thats good but did you think of those you left behind, there is a difference between thinking of those still in and due to damage suffered in Straight not being able to help because of where one is emotionally and not even thinking of them at all.
Again blow it out your ass. You aren't the only one who has 'worked for the cause'.
You seem to be self consumned , unlike the survivors that have put their names, money, family on the line to help others - those include Ginger , Richard, Sammy , Mike , Chris and many others.
What i really here in your post is anger and guilt but not at me, it seems you jumped right on it and perhaps feel guilty that you may not have been part of the solution even to this day, thats ok, no time like the present to start.
And again. Jeez, get over yourself.
No one should feel guilty about not doing something right after getting out , we had all just been through hell. Yes, I went to the authorities and closed it and Straight St. Pete begin to shuffle money and things which in turn woke Richard up, Richard closed St.Pete , Richards action in turn prompted others to go after other Florida programs, so we were all working together without knowing it. I found it difficult that you would actually be angry that Richard and I didnt close all programs.
No, they were annoyed at the comment I quoted above.
Do you have any idea what it took out of me to do what little I did do, no of course you don't, BTW I also worked with another survivor to start ISAC and we went after many other programs , and lauched several rescue missions of those still in, that survivor and I risked our family, our finances. Ginger has been sued, threatned lawsuits, put money in the board, paid for us to meet here, Richard has put thousands into efforts to get semblers under oath, sammy put herself and her emotions on national television and founded survivors of straight, for all of us revisiting it all was emotionally VERY hard.
If you poster have not been part of the solution thats ok, some can some cant. There were times I couldnt get involved because I just couldnt.
Wonderful. Still doesn't mean you were the only ones who've done anything.
But if you cant be part of the solution perhaps you shouldnt attack those that are doing what they can to get justice. I am sorry that we didnt close all the programs, but I know I did what I could and could do no more.
:beat: :soapbox:
Perhaps you could not post anon but tell us who you are since you seem so angry.
Why? What good would that do me? Why is it so important that you know anons names?
BTW its because Ginger cares and does put her money where her mouth is that you are even able to post here and meet other survivors and talk. Its because of Richard that St. Pete was closed if you were there, how many lives did he save because the never went into an intake because the program wasnt there. Yet, all you have to say is "yeah but yall didnt close all the programs".
No, what we said was that neither you nor Rich had anything to do with us getting out. You didn't. Accept that and move on.
Your opinon of me does not strike me as important but those survivors i mentioned have earned respect because they cared and still do.
Oh fuck off.
:twofinger: :roflmao:
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You said oh you didnt close them all, Im sorry I did what i could in my home town an then was busy falling apart.
No, a couple of people responded to the poster who was chastising people for questioning you with this comment, "I've seen people rip Richard, Marti apart and yet they are the very ones that got all of you out."
Someone had/has a problem with that part of the post. That's all. They had nothing to do with me getting out and it looks like others too.
Perhaps you could be more productive if you stopped the attacks and tried to be part of the solution.
Blow it out your ass. I'm so fucking sick and tired of hearing that.
If you 7th stepped as you say, and "got yourself out" thats good but did you think of those you left behind, there is a difference between thinking of those still in and due to damage suffered in Straight not being able to help because of where one is emotionally and not even thinking of them at all.
Again blow it out your ass. You aren't the only one who has 'worked for the cause'.
You seem to be self consumned , unlike the survivors that have put their names, money, family on the line to help others - those include Ginger , Richard, Sammy , Mike , Chris and many others.
What i really here in your post is anger and guilt but not at me, it seems you jumped right on it and perhaps feel guilty that you may not have been part of the solution even to this day, thats ok, no time like the present to start.
And again. Jeez, get over yourself.
No one should feel guilty about not doing something right after getting out , we had all just been through hell. Yes, I went to the authorities and closed it and Straight St. Pete begin to shuffle money and things which in turn woke Richard up, Richard closed St.Pete , Richards action in turn prompted others to go after other Florida programs, so we were all working together without knowing it. I found it difficult that you would actually be angry that Richard and I didnt close all programs.
No, they were annoyed at the comment I quoted above.
Do you have any idea what it took out of me to do what little I did do, no of course you don't, BTW I also worked with another survivor to start ISAC and we went after many other programs , and lauched several rescue missions of those still in, that survivor and I risked our family, our finances. Ginger has been sued, threatned lawsuits, put money in the board, paid for us to meet here, Richard has put thousands into efforts to get semblers under oath, sammy put herself and her emotions on national television and founded survivors of straight, for all of us revisiting it all was emotionally VERY hard.
If you poster have not been part of the solution thats ok, some can some cant. There were times I couldnt get involved because I just couldnt.
Wonderful. Still doesn't mean you were the only ones who've done anything.
But if you cant be part of the solution perhaps you shouldnt attack those that are doing what they can to get justice. I am sorry that we didnt close all the programs, but I know I did what I could and could do no more.
:beat: :soapbox:
Perhaps you could not post anon but tell us who you are since you seem so angry.
Why? What good would that do me? Why is it so important that you know anons names?
BTW its because Ginger cares and does put her money where her mouth is that you are even able to post here and meet other survivors and talk. Its because of Richard that St. Pete was closed if you were there, how many lives did he save because the never went into an intake because the program wasnt there. Yet, all you have to say is "yeah but yall didnt close all the programs".
No, what we said was that neither you nor Rich had anything to do with us getting out. You didn't. Accept that and move on.
Your opinon of me does not strike me as important but those survivors i mentioned have earned respect because they cared and still do.
Oh fuck off.
:twofinger: :roflmao:
what he said
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My point was, programs keep things hidden.
Then by the same token, we could ask the question: Didn't programs insist we reveal everything about ourselves, and wouldn't a requirement that everyone reveal their identity be similar to a program, too? Food for thought, eh?
I would answer your question if you weren't posting anonymously.
Ok tony, logged in now, and re-posing the question...
Be sure you do a search on this guy's posts tony. You'll find out that your earlier little rant up in the News section was directed towards the wrong person. While I do enjoy trolling you, it is very rarely these days me.
Enjoy, because yah just know I'm smiling.
:twofinger:
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You said oh you didnt close them all, Im sorry I did what i could in my home town an then was busy falling apart.
No, a couple of people responded to the poster who was chastising people for questioning you with this comment, "I've seen people rip Richard, Marti apart and yet they are the very ones that got all of you out."
Someone had/has a problem with that part of the post. That's all. They had nothing to do with me getting out and it looks like others too.
Perhaps you could be more productive if you stopped the attacks and tried to be part of the solution.
Blow it out your ass. I'm so fucking sick and tired of hearing that.
If you 7th stepped as you say, and "got yourself out" thats good but did you think of those you left behind, there is a difference between thinking of those still in and due to damage suffered in Straight not being able to help because of where one is emotionally and not even thinking of them at all.
Again blow it out your ass. You aren't the only one who has 'worked for the cause'.
You seem to be self consumned , unlike the survivors that have put their names, money, family on the line to help others - those include Ginger , Richard, Sammy , Mike , Chris and many others.
What i really here in your post is anger and guilt but not at me, it seems you jumped right on it and perhaps feel guilty that you may not have been part of the solution even to this day, thats ok, no time like the present to start.
And again. Jeez, get over yourself.
No one should feel guilty about not doing something right after getting out , we had all just been through hell. Yes, I went to the authorities and closed it and Straight St. Pete begin to shuffle money and things which in turn woke Richard up, Richard closed St.Pete , Richards action in turn prompted others to go after other Florida programs, so we were all working together without knowing it. I found it difficult that you would actually be angry that Richard and I didnt close all programs.
No, they were annoyed at the comment I quoted above.
Do you have any idea what it took out of me to do what little I did do, no of course you don't, BTW I also worked with another survivor to start ISAC and we went after many other programs , and lauched several rescue missions of those still in, that survivor and I risked our family, our finances. Ginger has been sued, threatned lawsuits, put money in the board, paid for us to meet here, Richard has put thousands into efforts to get semblers under oath, sammy put herself and her emotions on national television and founded survivors of straight, for all of us revisiting it all was emotionally VERY hard.
If you poster have not been part of the solution thats ok, some can some cant. There were times I couldnt get involved because I just couldnt.
Wonderful. Still doesn't mean you were the only ones who've done anything.
But if you cant be part of the solution perhaps you shouldnt attack those that are doing what they can to get justice. I am sorry that we didnt close all the programs, but I know I did what I could and could do no more.
:beat: :soapbox:
Perhaps you could not post anon but tell us who you are since you seem so angry.
Why? What good would that do me? Why is it so important that you know anons names?
BTW its because Ginger cares and does put her money where her mouth is that you are even able to post here and meet other survivors and talk. Its because of Richard that St. Pete was closed if you were there, how many lives did he save because the never went into an intake because the program wasnt there. Yet, all you have to say is "yeah but yall didnt close all the programs".
No, what we said was that neither you nor Rich had anything to do with us getting out. You didn't. Accept that and move on.
Your opinon of me does not strike me as important but those survivors i mentioned have earned respect because they cared and still do.
Oh fuck off.
:twofinger: :roflmao:
It seems that what we have here is a failure to communicate.. ::deadhorse:: :roflmao: :beat: :cheers: :rocker: :rofl:
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I have not agreed with many things you have said on Fornits but that is Free Speech and I respect them as your opinions.
I whole heartedly agree, I think disagreeing with each other is the foundation of what makes us individuals however even though we dont share the same thoughts and feelings we still learn a lot from each other when we choose to express ourselves. I would never hate on someone because they have a difference in opinion, I may tell my opinion and challenge their thought process but I have plenty of friends and people I look up to who have the exact opposite set of beliefs and I wouldnt dream for a minute of trying to convince them of differently. I will always be drawn to a good debate, especially when our topic can be analyzed from many different angles and different theories and solutions can be applied.
Just so your aware, Tony I respect you. I don't think having a difference of opinion would separate any of us or cast any kind of grudge against each other, I think its all in good intentions that we come here to express our opinions and challenge those of others... its how we progressively shape our experience of this industry as a whole. So dont take anything I may say personally, if you and I meet someday I will most likely give you lots of hugs.
Could you please elaborate on what you meant when you wrote,"Fornits members"? I have been posting on Fornits for over a year and I am not sure if I am one of these members of which you speak.
I'm honestly surprised you would say that. I figure all registered posters on Fornits are Fornits members, no matter what your stance is... I dont believe our opinions on one thing or other make us either part of one group or another, I have always figured we are a collective, all bringing our own flavor to the dish that is Fornits.
there are many grey areas in life that are more healthy and deliver a better mix.
I have never really considered myself a black and white person, it is possible that my opinions are biased when it comes to the program, or possibly program parents because my experience has lead me to develop a strong theory that I have seen proven too many times to count. Something you might now know about me is that for many years I worked with struggling families, and many times lived with them and observed their every day interactions. I have experienced first hand the type of parent that would and has sent their children to programs and it is NOT pretty. Please know that I wouldn't have even made these assumptions if I hadn't had extensive experience with the subject. I will never say that my theory about a certain subject applies to ALL people, and I will always acknowledge exceptions but I think that it is fair to say that my theory according to my observations is very likely to be true. You don't have to agree with my theory to at least realize that there are a lot of parents out there who are not doing their best to raise their children and the fact that kids end up in programs is just a symptom of this.
I'm sorry about what happened to all these people who were messed up in programs but I don't come here (most of the time) for a chuckle.
Neither do I, but it happens when people use humor on a forum.
I think it is possible to have moderate rules that make good sense without being totalitarian.
I agree, but dont think its moral to expect any of us to enforce such.
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You said oh you didnt close them all, Im sorry I did what i could in my home town an then was busy falling apart.
No, a couple of people responded to the poster who was chastising people for questioning you with this comment, "I've seen people rip Richard, Marti apart and yet they are the very ones that got all of you out."
Someone had/has a problem with that part of the post. That's all. They had nothing to do with me getting out and it looks like others too.
Perhaps you could be more productive if you stopped the attacks and tried to be part of the solution.
Blow it out your ass. I'm so fucking sick and tired of hearing that.
If you 7th stepped as you say, and "got yourself out" thats good but did you think of those you left behind, there is a difference between thinking of those still in and due to damage suffered in Straight not being able to help because of where one is emotionally and not even thinking of them at all.
Again blow it out your ass. You aren't the only one who has 'worked for the cause'.
You seem to be self consumned , unlike the survivors that have put their names, money, family on the line to help others - those include Ginger , Richard, Sammy , Mike , Chris and many others.
What i really here in your post is anger and guilt but not at me, it seems you jumped right on it and perhaps feel guilty that you may not have been part of the solution even to this day, thats ok, no time like the present to start.
And again. Jeez, get over yourself.
No one should feel guilty about not doing something right after getting out , we had all just been through hell. Yes, I went to the authorities and closed it and Straight St. Pete begin to shuffle money and things which in turn woke Richard up, Richard closed St.Pete , Richards action in turn prompted others to go after other Florida programs, so we were all working together without knowing it. I found it difficult that you would actually be angry that Richard and I didnt close all programs.
No, they were annoyed at the comment I quoted above.
Do you have any idea what it took out of me to do what little I did do, no of course you don't, BTW I also worked with another survivor to start ISAC and we went after many other programs , and lauched several rescue missions of those still in, that survivor and I risked our family, our finances. Ginger has been sued, threatned lawsuits, put money in the board, paid for us to meet here, Richard has put thousands into efforts to get semblers under oath, sammy put herself and her emotions on national television and founded survivors of straight, for all of us revisiting it all was emotionally VERY hard.
If you poster have not been part of the solution thats ok, some can some cant. There were times I couldnt get involved because I just couldnt.
Wonderful. Still doesn't mean you were the only ones who've done anything.
But if you cant be part of the solution perhaps you shouldnt attack those that are doing what they can to get justice. I am sorry that we didnt close all the programs, but I know I did what I could and could do no more.
:beat: :soapbox:
Perhaps you could not post anon but tell us who you are since you seem so angry.
Why? What good would that do me? Why is it so important that you know anons names?
BTW its because Ginger cares and does put her money where her mouth is that you are even able to post here and meet other survivors and talk. Its because of Richard that St. Pete was closed if you were there, how many lives did he save because the never went into an intake because the program wasnt there. Yet, all you have to say is "yeah but yall didnt close all the programs".
No, what we said was that neither you nor Rich had anything to do with us getting out. You didn't. Accept that and move on.
Your opinon of me does not strike me as important but those survivors i mentioned have earned respect because they cared and still do.
Oh fuck off.
:twofinger: :roflmao:
what he said
What he said X 2!!
It's obvious that Marti is the one that started this thread. She posts as a guest and mentions her name as one of the people that's being attacked so she can then respond and remind us all that she is the ULTIMATE SURVIVOR. Then she agrees with the OP which is priceless since it's her post to begin with!! She was soley responsible for closing st8 you know. Did I mention that she is the one that closed st8? OH, did you all know that Marti closed st8?
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I aint all inta that he said she said shit, but I sure know bout that kid that's on first phase up there in STRAIGHT, MI. OOOPS, I mean PFC "looks" like PFC but it's really STRAIGHT, INC. So nobody shut down STRAIGHT, INC. Go ahead and argue all you want, but if ya got a kid on their phases right now, whose been in there for 2 years, more than 10 others in there RIGHT now or so for over a year and a kid who right now is on first phase/level one NO TnR... since his intake in the first week ofJune 2008, you still got STRAIGHT all the way, bangin on all 8 cylinders. It aint closed. Never convince me it is anyways. They cut down 90% on the overall group size so as to avoid the percentages of disgruntled clients, but they still generate over at least a million or 4 dollars a year. As you can see by her award, Betty might as well have spit in everyone's face or worse. Damned if we do, damned if we don't. :clown: :clown: :clown: :clown:
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My point was, programs keep things hidden.
Then by the same token, we could ask the question: Didn't programs insist we reveal everything about ourselves, and wouldn't a requirement that everyone reveal their identity be similar to a program, too? Food for thought, eh?
I would answer your question if you weren't posting anonymously.
Ok tony, logged in now, and re-posing the question...
It's nice to know someone really wants to talk to me so much.
Ok, KHK did make us all reveal every detail about ourselves including false confessions about our past. So the answer to that question would be yes, programs do insist we reveal everything.
Now the second question, which is in the same sentence as the first, diverts from the first question. It is also off topic because we are not talking about revealing our identity, we are discussing posting anonymously as opposed to posting as a registered user. Posting as a registered user on SOME forums does not require a person to reveal their identity. What it does do is keep a person from posting as several people when they are only one or taking pot-shots at people without being held accountable for what is said.
I do not think that having some semblance and order makes anything similar, in and of itself, to a program. BUT if there "were" a "requirement" to reveal any "identities", I wouldn't condone that. What I am speaking of is that person A remains person A throughout discussions and therefore there is much less confusion as to who is writing what.
I also believe that if someone is writing as a guest (aka anonymous), then "guest" is what should be viewed. It is confusing to me as I am sure it is to others that when someone writes another person's name or user-name, that some may believe that it is that person or user writing the message. I am sure this has been used as a device to deceive and confuse. Tell me what value this deception or confusion can have when attempting to explain the truth about programs to anyone. I find this nonsensical and could be used maliciously.
No one is forcing anyone to write about themselves here. People write what they want here. Having something short of chaos does not make it similar to a program.
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What he said X 2!!
It's obvious that Marti is the one that started this thread. She posts as a guest and mentions her name as one of the people that's being attacked so she can then respond and remind us all that she is the ULTIMATE SURVIVOR. Then she agrees with the OP which is priceless since it's her post to begin with!! She was soley responsible for closing st8 you know. Did I mention that she is the one that closed st8? OH, did you all know that Marti closed st8?
I never said that. I just said that whoever DID post that comment was wrong. I have no idea if it was Marti or not. But I hear ya! I just get sick and tired of being told that no one who's anon does anything. This "perhaps you could be more effective" crap...... ::) This amateur, over a message board psychiatric dxing, i.e.........What i really here in your post is anger and guilt but not at me, it seems you jumped right on it and perhaps feel guilty that you may not have been part of the solution even to this day, thats ok, no time like the present to start. I mean, come on. What a load. :sue:
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Now the second question, which is in the same sentence as the first, diverts from the first question. It is also off topic because we are not talking about revealing our identity, we are discussing posting anonymously as opposed to posting as a registered user. Posting as a registered user on SOME forums does not require a person to reveal their identity. What it does do is keep a person from posting as several people when they are only one or taking pot-shots at people without being held accountable for what is said.
Nonsense. People could just create 4,5,6 or more accounts. Quit trying to control the board.
I do not think that having some semblance and order makes anything similar, in and of itself, to a program. BUT if there "were" a "requirement" to reveal any "identities", I wouldn't condone that. What I am speaking of is that person A remains person A throughout discussions and therefore there is much less confusion as to who is writing what.
I also believe that if someone is writing as a guest (aka anonymous), then "guest" is what should be viewed. It is confusing to me as I am sure it is to others that when someone writes another person's name or user-name, that some may believe that it is that person or user writing the message. I am sure this has been used as a device to deceive and confuse. Tell me what value this deception or confusion can have when attempting to explain the truth about programs to anyone. I find this nonsensical and could be used maliciously.
Could be used maliciously?? Do you hear yourself?
No one is forcing anyone to write about themselves here. People write what they want here. Having something short of chaos does not make it similar to a program.
No, but after being in a program there are some of us who LIKE being anonymous for whatever reason. Why does it matter so much? You'd lose a shitload of posters if you went to a registration required board.
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Wdtony, when you said, "My point was, programs keep things hidden," you made an analogy referring to how it is your feeling that people shouldn't be allowed to hide on here by posting anonymously. I then asked you, "By the same token . . . wouldn't a requirement that everyone reveal their identity be similar to a program?" which was simply an analogy based on the same assertion you made your analogy on, hoping you would see both sides of making such a ridiculous non-sequitor as: 'Programs hide things, so no one should hide anything here.'
wdtony, this line of reasoning you put forth here is unadulterated crap at best. If you argued with me like this in person I might have to split an ear off you. Only women get awawy with this sort of shit in my world. I can't hit them, though sometimes I'd like to. Why is it ok for you to make analogies, but not ok for anyone else to do it or they are "divert[ing] from the first question"? I was not diverting from anything. This statement was completely uncalled for. You harped on this thing about identities instead of seeing the error in your thought process.
wdtony, if you were in the program you would be started over for being full of shit and you would truly deserve that startover. :rofl: You have one hell of a lot of gall trying to say that your analogy holds sway, but that my equally valid analogy does not hold way. Do you think about what you say, or is it that you just want to be right all the time? I'm tired of being tormented to hell, that's what I'm tired of.
Jim Jones
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Me thinks I detect the presence of a droogie.
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I'm honestly surprised you would say that. I figure all registered posters on Fornits are Fornits members, no matter what your stance is...
I don't really like the term "Fornits members". It's not a membership organization. It's just a venue. Just like an old fashioned corner pub, the regulars tend to make friends and enemies and various kinds of alliances among themselves. And walk ins sometimes feel uncomfortable or excluded. As chief cook and bottle washer, all I can do is try to make everyone feel welcome and to be sure everyone is served. What happens beyond that is entirely up to the patrons, both regulars and wayfarers alike.
Here's the story that inspired my biker bar allegory:
Tradition holds that in May 1775, when the citizens of Westmoreland gathered at the Hannastown Tavern and issued their own Declaration of Independence, they tore down the British flag that was flying there and made some modifications. The original flag had an open red field with the British ensign in the upper corner. They painted a coiled rattlesnake and its "Don't Tread on Me" warning onto the center, as if ready to strike at the Union Jack.
(http://http://www.interesting.com/stories/gadsden/i/proctor-dont-tread-flag.gif)
I dont believe our opinions on one thing or other make us either part of one group or another, I have always figured we are a collective, all bringing our own flavor to the dish that is Fornits.
Yes, this is very, very true.
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I'm honestly surprised you would say that. I figure all registered posters on Fornits are Fornits members, no matter what your stance is...
I don't really like the term "Fornits members". It's not a membership organization. It's just a venue. Just like an old fashioned corner pub, the regulars tend to make friends and enemies and various kinds of alliances among themselves. And walk ins sometimes feel uncomfortable or excluded. As chief cook and bottle washer, all I can do is try to make everyone feel welcome and to be sure everyone is served. What happens beyond that is entirely up to the patrons, both regulars and wayfarers alike.
Here's the story that inspired my biker bar allegory:
Gadston Flag History[/url]"]Tradition holds that in May 1775, when the citizens of Westmoreland gathered at the Hannastown Tavern and issued their own Declaration of Independence, they tore down the British flag that was flying there and made some modifications. The original flag had an open red field with the British ensign in the upper corner. They painted a coiled rattlesnake and its "Don't Tread on Me" warning onto the center, as if ready to strike at the Union Jack.
(http://http://www.interesting.com/stories/gadsden/i/proctor-dont-tread-flag.gif)
I dont believe our opinions on one thing or other make us either part of one group or another, I have always figured we are a collective, all bringing our own flavor to the dish that is Fornits.
Yes, this is very, very true.
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I might have to split an ear off you.
:rofl: :rofl: :roflmao:
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ne of the things that came out in the lawsuit I was involved in for five years with Mel over his penis pump which is now mine by the way is as follows:
According to Mel's deposition the Sembler Company keep's "Special files" on special people and Mel's "Secretary" Marlene McCord mainains those files, they also have an IT Department at the Sembler Company which 24 hours a day monitors all of these sites and even though Betty Sembler said in her deposition she does not email much or monitor the web sites I have read many of her emails and know thats just not true.
They are very worried over the truth that gets posted about their horrible acts at Straight and their horrible support of Straight.
A number of the nasty postings made to this site are done by people working on behalf of the Semblers and or one of their many companies to keep everyone fighting and so forth.
It's that simple.
Recall the race wars of the early 1900's, the white politicians kept it going because it was to their advantage.
Same thing here.
Mel and Betty Sembler are very wealthy and for such a wealthy people they really are concerned about very petty things.
Being wealthy does not = being smart.
I found this out during the course of the lawsuit.
These are some dumb wealthy people with evil intentions that's all. Its just that simple.
Best wishes and Happy 2009 to you all and I thought it was well intentioned and a good start to the new year to see that former Straight employee come forward and tell the truth. A little late to help Fager's lawsuit but got to respect that he came forward at all.
Now he's in the "Special files" Marlene McCord keeps and now they will attack him as well.
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A number of the nasty postings made to this site are done by people working on behalf of the Semblers and or one of their many companies to keep everyone fighting and so forth.
So Marti is working for the semblers, then? :rofl: :twofinger:
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ne of the things that came out in the lawsuit I was involved in for five years with Mel over his penis pump which is now mine by the way is as follows:
According to Mel's deposition the Sembler Company keep's "Special files" on special people and Mel's "Secretary" Marlene McCord mainains those files, they also have an IT Department at the Sembler Company which 24 hours a day monitors all of these sites and even though Betty Sembler said in her deposition she does not email much or monitor the web sites I have read many of her emails and know thats just not true.
They are very worried over the truth that gets posted about their horrible acts at Straight and their horrible support of Straight.
A number of the nasty postings made to this site are done by people working on behalf of the Semblers and or one of their many companies to keep everyone fighting and so forth.
It's that simple.
Recall the race wars of the early 1900's, the white politicians kept it going because it was to their advantage.
Same thing here.
Mel and Betty Sembler are very wealthy and for such a wealthy people they really are concerned about very petty things.
Being wealthy does not = being smart.
I found this out during the course of the lawsuit.
These are some dumb wealthy people with evil intentions that's all. Its just that simple.
Best wishes and Happy 2009 to you all and I thought it was well intentioned and a good start to the new year to see that former Straight employee come forward and tell the truth. A little late to help Fager's lawsuit but got to respect that he came forward at all.
Now he's in the "Special files" Marlene McCord keeps and now they will attack him as well.
Any reason why we can't publish this material all over the net? I don't doubt a word of the above cause, having grown up in this cult, I know how they think and operate. But I would just LOVE to have hard evidence such as sworn deposition to support my claims about them.