Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Anonymous on December 16, 2008, 11:31:37 AM
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My Time at Paint Rock Valley Boys
I worked as a counselor at Three Springs of Paint Rock Valley Boys from 2002 to 2004. During that time I participated in abusive acts and witnessed even more. My actions have brought me a great deal of personal pain and remorse. It wasn’t until after I was terminated, for what essentially was the exercising of poor judgment that I came to realize the full extent of what I did and saw. Everything must have a start and my story started with the extremely poor training I received, moved on to the appalling lack of supervision, and is rounded out by the horrible conditions of the facility.
I started working at Three Springs a few weeks before Christmas at the end of 2002. At my time of hire I spent four or so weeks going through the Three Springs 100 hour new employee training. During this time I went to classes all day and spent time with a group at night. The training program was inadequate to say the least. Most of it went over the various levels of the stages system, the medicine wheel, and creed. We received minimal medical training, minimal training in how to deal with violence, minimal training in dealing with people who were upset. All in all we received very little useful training to prepare us for covering the group we were being trained to cover.
Once training was complete, and we passed our tests, which most of us cheated on, we were given our group assignments. My group was the group of Lisicha. This group was the youth group that consisted of boys from the ages 10 to 14 or so. My first introduction to Lisicha involved a restraint in the middle of the dining hall during lunch hour between two of my training classes. Restraints were something that I learned happened quite frequently in Lisicha.
My first restraint with my group occurred at night after a young man attempted to hit my co counselor. Nearly 10 restraints later the group was finally willing to calm down enough to go to bed. At some point it became apparent that the traditional methods of SAMA (Satori Alternatives to Managing Aggression) were pretty useless. The methods taught to me by Three Springs took too long, were too awkward, and normally resulted in the restraints taking longer. At this point I began to use what could be termed as Shock and Awe, which actually works pretty well if your goal is to pound a group into passive submission.
Shock and Awe restraints are when I would slam the kid into the ground as hard as I could to force him to submit in the shortest amount of time. Luckily for the boys no one was seriously physically hurt. The worst injury incurred during a restraint was a broken collar bone. That was more from the location of the restraint that the force, which was fairly minimal but on a rocky trail. My Shock and Awe methods of restraints rarely seemed to raise an eyebrow. I used these techniques of rendering a boy submissive in public on a regular basis in front of other counselors, supervisors, family worker, and unit directors. I think during my time I was written up twice for improper restraint during the performance of roughly 300 restraints and very few of them by the book.
The book also called for the proper filling out of paperwork. However, in my experience, when you have 16 incident reports to fill out you tend to gloss over the details and do your best to justify your actions. I often lied on my progress reports and heard of other counselors doing the same. Once during an incident involving a restraint in where I restrained a boy in Lisicha's cabin for hiding under a bed I wrote up the boy for attempting to run away. Not a single eyebrow was raised about the report or the incident despite the fact it was pretty obvious I was blatantly being dishonest to protect myself. My embellishments on incident reports didn't seem like such a serious problem at the time as my group was experiencing such severe behavioral problems that everyone seemed to think that the number of restraints were justifiable.
The group’s behavior was so up and down that multiple restraints became the norm. During one particularly sickening day I performed twenty-six restraints with no help from my co-workers. One supervisor even called over on the radio and asked me to keep my group quiet as it was disturbing a meeting. At some point I had to beg for someone to come relieve me so I could use the toilet. Restraints became so common in Lisicha that I became sort of trigger happy. If a kid even twitched too hard he ended up in a restraint. I remember restraining a kid for using the f-word once and nothing was even said to me. If my restraints were bad, some of the supervisors and other counselors were worse. I’ll describe this more later on in this statement. I began to suffer physically and mentally from the stress, but it was the boys who suffered the most through the variety of consequences they endured on that day and others like it.
Consequences at Three Springs are designed to bring about compliance of an individual or group. Here is a list of the commonly used ones:
1.) Sitting on a rock all day
2.) Group Ignore: The child was completely ignored by his group and had to cook al his own food and sleep in a tent.
3.) Primitive: This is where the boy was kicked out of his group completely and forced to live in his own campsite, cook his own food, and was not allowed to speak to anyone.
4.) Quiet Time: Not being allowed to talk
5.) Standing Quiet Time: Not being allowed to talk and standing quietly
6.) Personal Fire Drill: The child was given a few fire drills randomly throughout the night for behaviors in the day.
7.) Building Ban: Not being allowed in the buildings
8.) Campsite: The whole group was made to eat and cook on their campsite, get up earlier, and not allowed to talk on campus.
9.) Manure Therapy: Shoveling horse manure at the horse barn all day
10.) Personal Gott: Being forced to carry a 5 gallon jug of water
11.) Work Projects: This could vary from chopping wood to cleaning their campsites
One of the stranger consequences I witnessed, involved a young man who was made to carry his own gott of water everywhere, and was made to walk 100 poles a day until he began to comply with the program. Walking poles was where the child walked the distance from 1 telephone pole to the next and then back, to count as 1 lap.
Another consequence that struck me as odd involved a blunder on my own part. I was caught making three of my own group members carry cinder blocks around the bleachers by the baseball field. One of the higher ups from the Huntsville office witnessed it and complained that I wasn’t making sure the consequence had some meaning attached to it. She later told me that I should have gotten the boys to move the whole pile of cinder blocks so they could clean out underneath them. According to her, this would have given the consequence some sort of legitimacy. Personally, in retrospect, I think both her and my consequence were nonsense.
More nonsense that went on regularly at Three Springs was Treatment Team. Each week the counselors (no formal psychological training), the family worker (no formal psychological training, and the supervisor (no formal psychological training) would all get together and assess the progress of the members of their group. Most of these treatments did not involve the facility psychologist. Of course, this was the same psychologist the kids saw a mere 20 minutes or less every month. During this meeting, interventions were created to help move the boys through the program.
One of the worst aspects of Treatment Teams was the evaluation of topics that the boys did every week. These topics done in Nightly were examined and discussed. I frequently witnessed the boys being told that they weren’t being honest enough about why they are in the program. Often, I believe anyway, the boys resorted to gross exaggeration to bluff their way past Treatment Team to satisfy the mania for introspection.
Another problem I witnessed was the living conditions. Three Springs houses the boys in campsites that have three to five buildings. These buildings include the cook shed, woodshed, nightly site, cabin, and trunk room. More often than not counselors allowed their groups to leave their campsites in a disgusting state. I often found myself sleeping in a cabin that smelled so vile that it was not uncommon for me to sleep with my head out the door. I regularly found rat feces on plates, clothing, in trunks, under beds, and on shelves. Shower houses tended to have green slime and mold on the walls; another frequent complaint was mice and rats in the pantry in the kitchen.
The kitchen presented another item of concern during my stay at Three Springs. The food cooked and served by the kitchen staff with the assistance of the boys was often disgusting and unappetizing. Many of the boys in my group complained of weight loss due to not being able to eat. I’m not a finicky eater so loosing weight wasn’t an issue for me. However, several residents who had medications that increased or suppressed their appetites, tended to suffer from the lack of quality food. Weekend meals often served were sandwiches with white bread, baloney, and potato chips as a ‘nutritious’ meal.
Poor food led to one of the most violent incidents I witnessed at Three Springs. I was sitting at my table talking to the kids in my group when a resident grew angry about something and started lashing out at others. Three counselors restrained him, very painfully, on the floor in the corner. I later asked him what got him angry and he said that he was just sick and tired of eating crappy food and being hungry all the time. This wasn’t the only incident of violence that occurred at Three Springs.
Here is a list of incidents that occurred during my time at Three Springs:
1.) A counselor at the County Choices program restrained a kid with such force he cracked the wooden cabin floor.
2.) A counselor drove his shoulder into the stomach of a kid who was being carried down a hill by two others and performed what he termed a ‘T-bone Maneuver’.
3.) A unit director picked a boy up by his feet and banged his head on the ground.
4.) Another unit director picked a kid up and swung him around like a rag doll and then apparently threw the kid.
5.) I jumped over a table and restrained a kid with such force I ended up with a knot on my head and bruised knee.
6.) Another counselor regularly used to tell others that the best thing to do on your first day in group was to, “boom a kid” to get them to behave.
7.) A female unit director bragged of suplexing a kid.
8.) A supervisor restrained a boy on the concrete and deliberately ground the boy’s elbows and knees into the concrete to inflict pain on him.
9.) Another supervisor performed a running tackle on a boy for cursing at another staffer.
10.) I restrained a boy in the gravel with such force it left his imprint in the ground.
11.) I personally witnessed a staffer use a choke hold on a boy.
12.) Another staffer bragged that he found banging a kid’s head on the concrete a good way to settle them down.
There is so much more I could add, but the sheer number of incidents makes it hard to sort threw them all. At night, I sometimes have nightmares about what went on at Three Springs. Guilt was what led me to examine myself and my actions. It was remorse that made me want to do some sort of penance for what I did, and for what I didn’t do. My biggest regret to this day isn’t what I did, but the fact that I remained silent while working at Three Springs.
It wasn’t until I was terminated for handing out a consequence that resulted in a young man sustaining a minor abrasion to his nose that I was forced to see the bigger picture.
My termination forced me out of a world where abuse on a weekly to daily basis seemed routine, and part of the job. It forced me into the real world where such things are not tolerated. It wasn't to long before I began to feel a huge sense of guilt over all that had transpired. I don't hate Three Springs for terminating me. Quite the opposite, as I'm more than willing to thank them for forcing me out of such a soul destroying operation. Many people have claimed Three Springs saved their life with the time they spent there. I claim Three Springs saved my life by forcing me to leave. This action helped me to move onto a healthier place.
It took me awhile to readjust to not waking up every hour, not living with the constant hyper-awareness of living with 10 young boys, not suffering panic attacks, not throwing up from those panic attacks, not suffering constant knee and back pain, and finally not being in a place where hurting people appears to be part of the job as long as it is in the name of treatment. I offer no excuses or explanations as to why I didn't report what I witnessed other than to say it never once occurred to me to do so during my twenty-two months of employment, nor was it ever overly encouraged of us to act in our mandated reporter roles as we all should have been doing. This, at times, has added to my guilt factor, but my sense of remorse and guilt for what I have done and not done has more or less been exorcised after making contact with some of the boys I worked with. To date all that have been contacted have accepted my apologies and we have maintained a friendly relationship.
It makes me happy to know that despite Three Springs, and the hell they endured, those wonderful young men have grown up to be better a better sort of man than I ever have or will be.
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What a fucking loser.
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It takes a special kind of asshole to get fired for being too abusive in an already abusive program.
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Having him as part of this secret club seems like a real bad idea. Looks to me like he'll be hindering progress more than helping.
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Having him as part of this secret club seems like a real bad idea. Looks to me like he'll be hindering progress more than helping.
Go away, Kev. Che's background is no secret and he has proven himself a hundred times over to have far more integrity than you ever will. When he screws up, at least he admits to it.
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:timeout:
Che is an unknown. He still hasn't fully proven to many of us that he isn't some sort of agent provocateur. I don't think anyone has even managed to confirm his story. For all we know we could be sharing a forum with someone who is still working in the industry.
What do we really know about him?
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:timeout:
Che is an unknown. He still hasn't fully proven to many of us that he isn't some sort of agent provocateur. I don't think anyone has even managed to confirm his story. For all we know we could be sharing a forum with someone who is still working in the industry.
What do we really know about him?
Well. Don't know how to answer about Che, but that is a most stylish aluminum chapeau you're sporting.
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What do we really know about him?
To be fair, what do we really know about anyone on the internet? Only what they choose to tell you. How many individual survivors have had their stories "confirmed", maybe they are agents of the industry too?
If Che says he broke some 11 year old kid's collar bone implementing his strategy of "shock and awe", then who am I to question it. :roflmao:
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well one things for sure, your an asshole, but we can all sleep well knowing your OUR asshole.
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well one things for sure, your an asshole, but we can all sleep well knowing your OUR asshole.
Well, one thing's[/b] for sure, you're an asshole, but we can all sleep well knowing your our asshole.
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well one things for sure, your an asshole, but we can all sleep well knowing your OUR asshole.
Well, one thing's[/b] for sure, you're an asshole, but we can all sleep well knowing you're our asshole.
You missed one.
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I heard he also worked for an "Eckerd Youth Alternatives" program in Florida.
I don't trust many on the net at all, and I don't expect to be trusted on here. I think if you trust someone based on what you get from the internet alone, you are exhibiting very poor judgement.
T
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Che working for Eckerd Youth Alternatives isn't exactly new information. He has talked about that before.
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well one things for sure, your an asshole, but we can all sleep well knowing your OUR asshole.
Well, one thing's[/b] for sure, you're an asshole, but we can all sleep well knowing you're our asshole.
You missed one.
Embarassing is spelled embarrassing. However, you're still a cunt.
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I heard Che's a lifetime member of the John Birch Society!
:nods:
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oooo yea and I heard he rapes small children then murders them and eats them for dinner.
...sarcasm
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The worst injury incurred during a restraint was a broken collar bone.
My Shock and Awe methods of restraints rarely seemed to raise an eyebrow. I used these techniques of rendering a boy submissive in public on a regular basis in front of other counselors, supervisors, family worker, and unit directors.
I think during my time I was written up twice for improper restraint during the performance of roughly 300 restraints and very few of them by the book.
Once during an incident involving a restraint in where I restrained a boy in Lisicha's cabin for hiding under a bed I wrote up the boy for attempting to run away.
Restraints became so common in Lisicha that I became sort of trigger happy. If a kid even twitched too hard he ended up in a restraint. I remember restraining a kid for using the f-word once and nothing was even said to me.
I was caught making three of my own group members carry cinder blocks around the bleachers by the baseball field.
I jumped over a table and restrained a kid with such force I ended up with a knot on my head and bruised knee.
I restrained a boy in the gravel with such force it left his imprint in the ground.
I was terminated for handing out a consequence that resulted in a young man sustaining a minor abrasion to his nose.
The most interesting part of this thread is that people actually defend these actions, or dismiss it as no big deal. If this type of abuse isn't a big deal, then why do you oppose programs at all?
I've noticed one of these people whines about Kevin, who never abused a kid in his life, but defends the actions of this staff. That leads me to the conclusion this person is a troll, or suffering from a long term case of Stockholm Syndrome.
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But Che's changed. So has Dubinsky from Hyde -- he's sorry about the child molesting. So back off from Che. And Dubinsky. Fornits Insurance Policy.
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oooo yea and I heard he rapes small children then murders them and eats them for dinner!
How do you think most kids die in programs??? From restraints which result in suffocation! Che Gookin said he weighs 300 pounds and that he was in charge of 10-14 year old kids. He is lucky that he didn't kill one of those kids!
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He just stood by and watched that happen.
JACKSONVILLE, Fla., July 9 /PRNewswire/ --
The following was released today by Ellis Rubin:
In February of 2000, 12-year-old Michael Wiltsie was wrongfully killed by a counselor at E-Kel-Etu boot camp, located in Marion County, Florida, near the city of Ocala. With other children and Eckerd staff watching, camp counselor Joseph Cooley violently forced Michael Wiltsie face down on the ground in a wooded area. Cooley, who weighed well in excess of 300 pounds proceeded to lay on top of Michael, who weighed only 65 pounds. For more than 15 minutes the child begged for help, but …
http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-76392482.html (http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-76392482.html)
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Actually. AFAIK, that happened before Che started working there.
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AFAIK you defend an accessory to murder, for reasons unknown.
From Che’s previous resume:
2000 to 2002 (Job Title)-- Eckerd Youth Alternatives Camp E-Kel-Etu, Silver Springs, Florida
Responsible for the health and safety of 10 court adjudicated young boys twenty four hours a day for a duration of five days per shift.
Che’s current resume:
http://www.abroadchina.org/chinese/esl- ... 1219510243 (http://www.abroadchina.org/chinese/esl-email.asp?uid=1219510243)
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Che’s current resume:
http://www.abroadchina.org/chinese/esl- ... 1219510243 (http://www.abroadchina.org/chinese/esl-email.asp?uid=1219510243)
From resume: "Bachelors of Arts from Central Washington University 2000"
In February of 2000, 12-year-old Michael Wiltsie was wrongfully killed
Did he get his BA in January and zip dee doo to FL right after? Doubtful. And if doubtful, shame on U for UR attempts to tarnish w/o facts. AFAIK sounds like U have beef w/ Che that goes back to somethin else.
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I've noticed one of these people whines about Kevin, who never abused a kid in his life, but defends the actions of this staff. That leads me to the conclusion this person is a troll, or suffering from a long term case of Stockholm Syndrome.
A WWASP survivor who spent time with Kevin August alleges August was the biggest suckass punk in the program. While he didn't necessarily abuse any kid directly Kev's snitching and bitching caused restraints. He doesn't act much differently now.
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Che’s current resume:
http://www.abroadchina.org/chinese/esl- ... 1219510243 (http://www.abroadchina.org/chinese/esl-email.asp?uid=1219510243)
From resume: "Bachelors of Arts from Central Washington University 2000"
In February of 2000, 12-year-old Michael Wiltsie was wrongfully killed
Did he get his BA in January and zip dee doo to FL right after? Doubtful. And if doubtful, shame on U for UR attempts to tarnish w/o facts. AFAIK sounds like U have beef w/ Che that goes back to somethin else.
It looks like Che was the replacement for the killer. They needed a new fat guy to sit on kids. :eek:
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Che never completed his degree, despite the seven years he was at CWU.
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While he didn't necessarily abuse any kid directly Kev's snitching and bitching caused restraints.
:roflmao:
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The most interesting part of this thread is that people actually defend these actions, or dismiss it as no big deal. If this type of abuse isn't a big deal, then why do you oppose programs at all?
Let me just get one thing straight here boys, I haven't defended nor condoned any of Che's actions. I Also can't say that It doesn't effect how I view him or what kind of a "relationship" I might have with him. What I do know, is that Che has shown remorse and is doing what he can to make up for the crimes and abuse he inflicted on these children. I will never excuse him of that, but I will work with him and not excessively judge him because I believe that he wants to bring down these schools and prevent this from ever happening to anyone else.
That may not be enough for all of you but it is enough for me, and I can respect your opinion just as I hope you can respect mine.
I just don't believe that this person who has been directly involved with our movement for years as well the creation of a new important venture to end the abuse would be some kind of pro-program spy. He has been more than honest about his past, and to his credit he didn't have to be, that shows me he is truly remorseful and deserving of a chance to try to right some wrongs... and to respond to the difference between Che and Kev, Kev has been given multiple chances and he repeatedly spits in our face. Not to mention he has time and again given us more and more to get pissed about. Che has never once crossed that line with me and I have known him for some time now. So until he does hes got my benefit of the doubt. You don't have to agree, that's the beauty of freedom. You guys are just way too conspiracy theory when it comes to Che, Yea he was a bad guy and hes been forthcoming since the beginning. There's nothing more to conspire about, all that's left at this point are your judgments and that doesn't get us any closer to our goals.
I've noticed one of these people whines about Kevin, who never abused a kid in his life, but defends the actions of this staff. That leads me to the conclusion this person is a troll, or suffering from a long term case of Stockholm Syndrome.
LOL and this coming from a TROLL who's too chickenshit to post under a registered account...
The reason it's hard for me to shun Che in light of this story is because I have known him and worked with him for some time before I became aware of this. Good thing because I actually got to know him as a person before I decided to only pass judgments. Like I said, shit like this, is not forgiven but if someone like him has the courage to try to make his amends who am I to deny him of that chance?... Further more he has been a great asset and put in hours upon hours of work for this cause which is much more than I can say of the trolls in our midst.
So nice try KevTroll... but you're gonna have to do better than that.
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Actually. AFAIK, that happened before Che started working there.
Yes, Psy is correct. I checked on this about a year ago and found a lot of information about Cooley. Gookin is innocent of this, as far as I could tell, if that's what you were implying.
It still boggles my mind why someone like the gook would spend so much time "supposedly" supporting this cause and hanging out on Fornits though. I would like to know more about him since he has decided to write about himself here. For instance, where does he work now? Is he working for another program? Who knows?
There are so many things about his actions that have never made sense to me. I have heard so many rumors about gook being connected to Scheff, Stattel, CAICA and the industry in general. My question is, what reason would I have to trust him? The same reason programs give me when I ask them?......they say just take our word for it.....we're a different program now, Read our literature.......Well, I don't take anybody's word for it.
Fighting the TTI is a serious thing. If there might be provocateurs or moles hanging around, it is our responsibility to question them and verify what their intentions are.
I don't really know the gook or kev and I won't trust either of them until I have sufficient evidence proving they are legitimate. So far, both have failed miserably.
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It still boggles my mind why someone like the gook would spend so much time "supposedly" supporting this cause and hanging out on Fornits though.
Penance, maybe? Guilt? A desire for justice, to make up for past deeds. I can think of many reasons. Why don't you ask Che?
I would like to know more about him since he has decided to write about himself here. For instance, where does he work now? Is he working for another program? Who knows?
I've personally met him and also know definitively where he is posting from. He is not working for a program. Do you have shred of evidence to support that fear? Don't let fear guide you. It's not fair to accuse, or even imply such when it can damage another person's reputation unfairly.
There are so many things about his actions that have never made sense to me. I have heard so many rumors about gook being connected to Scheff, Stattel, CAICA and the industry in general.
Rumors. There are rumors about everybody. If there is anything that program has taught me is that rumors often have very little or no basis in reality.
My question is, what reason would I have to trust him? The same reason programs give me when I ask them?......they say just take our word for it.....we're a different program now, Read our literature.......Well, I don't take anybody's word for it.
Well. My philosophy is "trust but verify" So far, I have no reason to doubt anything Che has said.
Fighting the TTI is a serious thing. If there might be provocateurs or moles hanging around, it is our responsibility to question them and verify what their intentions are.
I don't really know the gook or kev and I won't trust either of them until I have sufficient evidence proving they are legitimate. So far, both have failed miserably.
Well. Kev is out, and was even before this recent incident with the teenshelp.us site. As for proving people are legitimate... what do you want, a security clearance, witch trials? I agree that we shoudl be cautious when handling confidential information (as those I know always are), however there if a fine line between caution and paranoia. When we start accusing each other without facts, i'm sorry to say but it's the latter, and very, very counterproductive.
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TTI IS SERIOUS BUSINESS!
Q: How many dead babies does it take to make a bottle of baby oil?
A: It depends on how hard you squeeze them.
hYDE BUSINESS IS SERIOUS BUSINESS!
Q: How many dead babies does it take to make a bottle of baby oil?
A: It depends on how hard you squeeze them.
My reasons for being here are my reasons alone. If you want to know why please ask, but I'm going to warn you that you'll probably be nothing but asshurt when you find out I'm not motivated by guilt or some higher cause.
I'll give you a hint:
Q: What is red & yellow & screams?
A: A peeled baby in lemon juice.
And since we are busy spinning gossip and other bullshit:
Can we have the real answer for why ISAC and HEAL aren't friendly anymore? I heard it was because of you Tony, but I'm 'willing' to give you a chance to hear your side of the story.
Oh wait.. That'd be muckracking and that's not cool back to my theme:
Q: What do you call a baby with no arms and no legs in the middle of the ocean?
A: Fucked.
How is Israel this time of the year? I've the hankering to visit some of the local Universities.
Q: What's present do you get for a dead baby?
A: A dead puppy.
AND REMEMBER THIS IS SERIOUS BUSINESS!
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Gook started the thread. He is smart enough to know what would probably ensue. He is also reckless. This is seeming like another diversion tactic to get Fornits over-dramatized. How does this hurt programs? Does this help programs inadvertantly?
As I remember, I tried to ask gook several questions last year and he squirreled his way around all of them or didn't answer them at all. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and I have stated mine here. I posted a comment, I didn't post to be included in some sort of argument. I don't have time for that.
Paranoia is an irrational fear, I believe being cautious about a person I have never met that has exhibited uncanny behavior online is perfectly rational. And the rumors are just that, I never said I had proof. I thought by posting my opinions that gook might produce answers to us all. No such luck, only riddle-speak and sick joke runaround. Diverting attention away again.
Program directors get awfully mad when they know they can't fool you. Could this be the same reason gook doesn't care for me? I don't have time to go through the dozens of reasons I don't trust gook. I am not asking anyone else to not trust him, but a few are asking me to trust him. I have seen enough to know he is untrustworthy and that is my position.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I have wasted enough time on this thread. This is folly.
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Correct. I work at an Israeli university. You know my name, my nationality, my employer, and my IP address – but not from comments I ever made on Fornits or anywhere else on the Internet.
I take it you’re finally coming clean about hacking newbies to Fornits.
I note that you first started mucking around in my computer in January 2007, one week after I began tentatively posting on Fornits, eleven months before I asked you to stop libelling Sumner Hawley and we got into it.
Be warned however that I’ve since taken measures to protect my computer against kiddy scripts. As I know you already know.
There was no need for you to out me to my program, either; I intended them to figure it out for themselves. Granted, using my real name on my YouTube account was naive. But my naivete doesn’t excuse you from highjacking my account to post comments under my name on videos uploaded by my program.
You’re no “program spy,” Aaron. You’re simply jealous, with nothing to contribute to Fornits in the way of either intelligence or activism. You provoke the men and women who make the most valuable contributions to Fornits because they take away the most attention from you.
I share your family’s joy that your sister was able to find you yet another job in Asia. Any further, and you’d be on your way back home. And while we’re talking about family, stop posting lies about how your mother sexually abused you. It’s an exceedingly pathetic excuse for your infantilism and (not wholly unfounded) sense of failure.
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Che did not post this thread, someone with intentions of bringing this dramatic issue back up did. and as they were hoping the infighting ensued.
I really think this is a stale subject, I think we can all decide for ourselves how we feel about each other but that shouldn't get in the way of the fact that we are all working toward the same goals. That being said, we would still be working with Kevin also had he not made it impossible to do so. We all said we would work with anyone so long as they weren't referring and I think the same goes for Che, we will work with him so long as he isn't restraining, and he is not.
But honestly Che, it pisses me off that some of us have put our neck on the line for you and you post shit like the bullshit above. You might not care what people think about you, but you make it hard for people not to hate you and when people like Psy and I argue that your not as much of an asshole as you seem your posts have an effect to prove us wrong. If these people want some answers I honestly think they are entitled to them. You and I have already spoken personally about this issue so you know where I stand, but for the sake of a resolution I request you act a bit more respectfully. Some of us are the victims of people who did the same things you did, and if you don't have the heart to respect our reservations and show genuine remorse, then you are indeed spitting on our willingness to give you that chance.
To the rest of you, I know for a fact, if you were to attempt to connect with Aaron as a person you would see him differently, as well you might have those questions answered. You must realize this man has made it very clear he is not hiding his past, and although it is human nature to judge, it would be much more productive for you to ask honest questions instead of stew up some conspiracy theories. Thats what I did and I got my answers, not all of them what I wanted to hear but I give him respect for telling me the truth. Furthermore I know he is remorseful, he does not excuse himself for what he did and that is where he differs from the people who abused me, the people who abused me not only abused me for less of a reason, for a much longer time period and with much more violence but they are probably abusing another kid right now, and whole-heartedly believe it is the right thing to do. Like I said, I do not forgive, but I do not shun someone who has changed their ways, and is working hard to help us. You may not all see what I see and that's all good, you can choose to hate Che and that wont stop him one bit from giving us his assistance to take these programs down... so go ahead and waste your time with all this. Its makes no difference to us.
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Correct. I work at an Israeli university. You know my name, my nationality, my employer, and my IP address – but not from comments I ever made on Fornits or anywhere else on the Internet.
I know my mates at the CIA have you under watch now.
I take it you’re finally coming clean about hacking newbies to Fornits.
I note that you first started mucking around in my computer in January 2007, one week after I began tentatively posting on Fornits, eleven months before I asked you to stop libelling Sumner Hawley and we got into it.
Tin foil cap much?
Be warned however that I’ve since taken measures to protect my computer against kiddy scripts. As I know you already know.
There was no need for you to out me to my program, either; I intended them to figure it out for themselves. Granted, using my real name on my YouTube account was naive. But my naivete doesn’t excuse you from highjacking my account to post comments under my name on videos uploaded by my program.
You've got a bit of an oversized opinion of your own sense of importance. Someone pmed me and tipped me off that you were spreading your bullshit on this thread.
You’re no “program spy,” Aaron
We both agree.
I share your family’s joy that your sister was able to find you yet another job in Asia. Any further, and you’d be on your way back home. And while we’re talking about family, stop posting lies about how your mother sexually abused you. It’s an exceedingly pathetic excuse for your infantilism and (not wholly unfounded) sense of failure.
I'm not even going to touch this one with a ten foot pole. You were a freak 11 months ago and you are a freak now.
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Gook started the thread. He is smart enough to know what would probably ensue. He is also reckless. This is seeming like another diversion tactic to get Fornits over-dramatized. How does this hurt programs? Does this help programs inadvertantly?
No I did not start this thread. Someone reposted it.
As I remember, I tried to ask gook several questions last year and he squirreled his way around all of them or didn't answer them at all. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and I have stated mine here. I posted a comment, I didn't post to be included in some sort of argument. I don't have time for that.
You do like evading when people put you on the spot. You asked me a bunch of questions that I tried my best to answer. You didn't like those answers and I can't help that. Questions that despite being what I felt overly intrusive on my privacy I still tried to answer them, even attempting to have me confirm my location by having one of your Korean friends talk to me on the phone which I had to decline twice because I was in China on vacation at the time, questions about my family life, and a slew of other questions that by all means I should have told you to go fuck yourself for even asking.
Program directors get awfully mad when they know they can't fool you. Could this be the same reason gook doesn't care for me? I don't have time to go through the dozens of reasons I don't trust gook. I am not asking anyone else to not trust him, but a few are asking me to trust him. I have seen enough to know he is untrustworthy and that is my position.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I have wasted enough time on this thread. This is folly.
Yet you haven't provided any burden of proof of why I'm not to be trusted other than your own rumor mongering.
You've heard rumors about me and Sue Scheff, but youv'e never confirmed them have you? Get a hold of Zen Agent and ask him how he feels about my relationship with Kristin. If he doesn't tell you to fuck off he'll probably give you a bit of educating.
You've compared me to Kevin August?
I went after Kevin hammer and tongs the first time around. I pushed to give him a chance with this whole project this time around. I'll even push to give him another chance if he can simmer down and get a bit of perspective on things. I'm not having anything to do with this latest fracas involving him as it isn't worth my time to have to go over the same ground with him again over something he already knows.
1) You first claimed, ON this thread, that you heard I worked at Eckerd Youth Alternatives.
2) You then stated, On this thread, that you had already confirmed it yourself.
Rumor mongering on your part and blatant rumor mongering at that. I've stated my position very clearly to others in private. I'll do it now here in public. I do enjoy trolling you. You are a punk and you are good for a laugh.
When you roll out with nonsense like you've done on this thread and then suddenly pull the, "I'm not arguing about this anymore because now I'm looking like a big tub of asscheese" it makes me laugh my ass off.
Like I said.. you are a punk.. and you are good for a laugh.
Other than that I have no problem with you despite the fact I've had more than a few people confirm that you've been passing around bullshit about me in the past. Do I care if you are talking shit about me to people at your protests?
no.. not really.
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I share your family’s joy that your sister was able to find you yet another job in Asia. Any further, and you’d be on your way back home. And while we’re talking about family, stop posting lies about how your mother sexually abused you. It’s an exceedingly pathetic excuse for your infantilism and (not wholly unfounded) sense of failure.
Honestly, If you really feel sinking that low is appropriate I am in support of any attempts to fuck you over.
No one even gives the slightest shit who you are, and furthermore, Che didn't hack you. But I bet the CIA did, and the Aliens are watching you too.
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Fornits: Same as it ever was!
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Correct. I work at an Israeli university. You know my name, my nationality, my employer, and my IP address – but not from comments I ever made on Fornits or anywhere else on the Internet.
I take it you’re finally coming clean about hacking newbies to Fornits.
I note that you first started mucking around in my computer in January 2007, one week after I began tentatively posting on Fornits, eleven months before I asked you to stop libelling Sumner Hawley and we got into it.
Be warned however that I’ve since taken measures to protect my computer against kiddy scripts. As I know you already know.
There was no need for you to out me to my program, either; I intended them to figure it out for themselves. Granted, using my real name on my YouTube account was naive. But my naivete doesn’t excuse you from highjacking my account to post comments under my name on videos uploaded by my program.
You’re no “program spy,” Aaron. You’re simply jealous, with nothing to contribute to Fornits in the way of either intelligence or activism. You provoke the men and women who make the most valuable contributions to Fornits because they take away the most attention from you.
I share your family’s joy that your sister was able to find you yet another job in Asia. Any further, and you’d be on your way back home. And while we’re talking about family, stop posting lies about how your mother sexually abused you. It’s an exceedingly pathetic excuse for your infantilism and (not wholly unfounded) sense of failure.
is this even slightly true? What are kddie scripts? oh my god.
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Che did not post this thread, someone with intentions of bringing this dramatic issue back up did. and as they were hoping the infighting ensued.
I really think this is a stale subject, I think we can all decide for ourselves how we feel about each other but that shouldn't get in the way of the fact that we are all working toward the same goals. That being said, we would still be working with Kevin also had he not made it impossible to do so. We all said we would work with anyone so long as they weren't referring and I think the same goes for Che, we will work with him so long as he isn't restraining, and he is not.
But honestly Che, it pisses me off that some of us have put our neck on the line for you and you post shit like the bullshit above. You might not care what people think about you, but you make it hard for people not to hate you and when people like Psy and I argue that your not as much of an asshole as you seem your posts have an effect to prove us wrong. If these people want some answers I honestly think they are entitled to them. You and I have already spoken personally about this issue so you know where I stand, but for the sake of a resolution I request you act a bit more respectfully. Some of us are the victims of people who did the same things you did, and if you don't have the heart to respect our reservations and show genuine remorse, then you are indeed spitting on our willingness to give you that chance.
To the rest of you, I know for a fact, if you were to attempt to connect with Aaron as a person you would see him differently, as well you might have those questions answered. You must realize this man has made it very clear he is not hiding his past, and although it is human nature to judge, it would be much more productive for you to ask honest questions instead of stew up some conspiracy theories. Thats what I did and I got my answers, not all of them what I wanted to hear but I give him respect for telling me the truth. Furthermore I know he is remorseful, he does not excuse himself for what he did and that is where he differs from the people who abused me, the people who abused me not only abused me for less of a reason, for a much longer time period and with much more violence but they are probably abusing another kid right now, and whole-heartedly believe it is the right thing to do. Like I said, I do not forgive, but I do not shun someone who has changed their ways, and is working hard to help us. You may not all see what I see and that's all good, you can choose to hate Che and that wont stop him one bit from giving us his assistance to take these programs down... so go ahead and waste your time with all this. Its makes no difference to us.
I don't think che is disrespectful. i think the same questions asked over and over from people who might not be legitimate themselves can start to grate on anyone.
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Its makes no difference to us.
Who else do you speak for besides yourself, are you part of a group or something? because you refer to yourself as "us".
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Its makes no difference to us.
Who else do you speak for besides yourself, are you part of a group or something? because you refer to yourself as "us".
Yea, I'm pretty sure I am part of a group, the group that is working together to bring down the Troubled Teen Industry, and this guy who has more interest in spreading rumors has no effect on US... as in our movement.
Futhermore, Che and I have already had our conversations about this, he knows where I stand and I know where he does. However when people use a forum to bash on someone instead of attempting a private conversation that should be considered wasting OUR time diverting our attention away from the real issues here.
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Its makes no difference to us.
Who else do you speak for besides yourself, are you part of a group or something? because you refer to yourself as "us".
Yea, I'm pretty sure I am part of a group, the group that is working together to bring down the Troubled Teen Industry, and this guy who has more interest in spreading rumors has no effect on US... as in our movement.
I'd just like to say that "us" has no leader, therefore I would suggest avoiding speaking on behalf of "us", even if you are sure your opinion is that of the consensus. Working together does not necessarily have to mean "being together" or even of the same mind on all issues. Troubled Teen Industry.com is primarily concerned with the creation of websites to inform about the industry in general as well as specific schools. Other than taking a firm stance against referrals in any form, Troubled Teen Industry.com is neutral on most other issues (such as whether or not regulation is a good idea). These principles were decided on by a mission statement (a constitution) agreed upon by the consensus, and not by any one person.
I only state this publicly rather than privately because I want to make clear to the fornitscators present that there is no super-sekret cult-like organization behind the scenes. There is, however a semi-secret (for the moment) project to create websites on programs... a project with such a singular purpose that few organizations could have qualms with working on it (where otherwise there is division because while everybody can agree on the problem, not everybody can agree on the solution).
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However when people use a forum to bash on someone instead of attempting a private conversation that should be considered wasting OUR time diverting our attention away from the real issues here.
Like when you use fornits to bash Kevin@antiwwasp?
::)
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However when people use a forum to bash on someone instead of attempting a private conversation that should be considered wasting OUR time diverting our attention away from the real issues here.
Like when you use fornits to bash Kevin@antiwwasp?
::)
Like when Fornits bashes Sue Scheff? What's the difference between Scheff and Kevin August? Kevin is a frustrated EdCon who keeps getting caught betraying survivors. He's a flaky asshole.
Does anyone know the nature of Kevdaddy's relationship with Scheff? He doesn't have a negative opinion of her. He seems to emulate her. Maybe that's why he trolls Fornits. someone should look into seeing if Scheff is guiding Kevdick in his attempts at referrals.
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However when people use a forum to bash on someone instead of attempting a private conversation that should be considered wasting OUR time diverting our attention away from the real issues here.
Like when you use fornits to bash Kevin@antiwwasp?
::)
Like when Fornits bashes Sue Scheff? What's the difference between Scheff and Kevin August? Kevin is a frustrated EdCon who keeps getting caught betraying survivors. He's a flaky asshole.
Does anyone know the nature of Kevdaddy's relationship with Scheff? He doesn't have a negative opinion of her. He seems to emulate her. Maybe that's why he trolls Fornits. someone should look into seeing if Scheff is guiding Kevdick in his attempts at referrals.
You know that's not true, you just want to slander Kevin's name in the same way that FemanonFatal2.0 does. No different than the people who are slandering Che's name in this thread. You are all exactly the same and you don't even realize it. Carry on. bash each other 'till the cows come home.
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You know that's not true, you just want to slander Kevin's name in the same way that FemanonFatal2.0 does. No different than the people who are slandering Che's name in this thread. You are all exactly the same and you don't even realize it. Carry on. bash each other 'till the cows come home.
No we don't know if Kevin August is in tight with Scheff. Based on Kevin's actions it's a plausible theory. Who else has an anti wwasp focused website and refers to abusive programs? There are abusive programs other than wwasp and August never bothered to do a cursory check on Magnolia Christian Academy. Kevin even had links going back to wwasp. Kevin August is the only agent provocateur on Fornits. He's somebody's puppet. Left to his own devices he's just a punk who dances weirdly in his parents' garage. Someone's filling that vacant cranium with stupid ideas.
It's a legitimate question about Kevin August and Sue Scheff that needs to be looked into. Can't ask Kev about it, he's a liar. You accused Gookin of watching a kid die without even checking the dates of his employment and you worry about kev being slandered?
Grow up, Kev. You're an opportunist and and a frustrated EdCon who can't get his own version of PURE up and running. No one could stop Kev's hero Scheff from setting up shop but Kevin August is under our collective thumb. Quit trying to put kids in programs for kickbacks.
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the troll who actually started this thread must be loving this.
:jerry:
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However when people use a forum to bash on someone instead of attempting a private conversation that should be considered wasting OUR time diverting our attention away from the real issues here.
Like when you use fornits to bash Kevin@antiwwasp?
::)
lol. Yea, perfect example.
However Kev and I had PLENTY of private conversations, not sure you (random troll that you are) know that. So me expressing my opinion about a certain persons actions is different than publicly accusing him of conspiring against me.
Honestly, I only decided to post in this thread to give my opinion that from my personal experience with Che, he is not a threat and WE ALL have other things to worry about.
and for future reference, the US I was speaking of was a collective, this forum, our movement as a whole and I'm assuming the world. Most of us could really give two shits about the bullshit oozing out of this thread. I wasnt talking about TTI, but if you really feel that offended that I used a collective word like us, Id honestly rather not be part of an us that is offended by me using the word us.
I'm done posting here. This thread and fornits. Rarely is there even an active thread about the troubled teen industry. its mostly just drama and people hell bent on being complete assholes. big fucking waste of my time.
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OK!
Everyone.. Let's massively over-react all at the same time!
YESSSS!