Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Fight2Survive on November 13, 2008, 03:01:55 AM
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Youth facility officials don't know cause of teen's death
Listen to this article or download audio file.Click-2-Listen
By ANA X. CERON
Palm Beach Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, November 11, 2008
Officials are awaiting autopsy results to determine what caused the death of a teen at a juvenile facility last week.
Sixteen-year-old Kevin Christie was playing basketball with a group of boys at the Eckerd Youth Development Center in Okeechobee and collapsed as he was helping a boy who fell, said Robert Patterson, operations director for the facility.Christie bent over to help the boy up, then fell on his back, Patterson said Tuesday. Once on the ground he lifted himself up a little, as if he were gasping for air, Patterson said.
Staff at the center rushed to administer CPR and an ambulance transported him to Raulerson Hospital, where he died between 6:30 and 7 p.m. Friday, Patterson said.
An autopsy was done Saturday, and officials are waiting on its findings to learn what caused the teen's death, Patterson said.
Christie was admitted to the Eckerd Youth Development Center about 2 p.m. on Nov. 6. He had been transferred after serving a year at Orient Road Jail in Tampa, Patterson said.
Christie was originally from Jamaica but had been living in Riverview with a family friend, Patterson said.
Patterson said grief counselors were available to talk with the boys and the staff at the center about what had happened.
"It was really a total shock for the boys and the staff for this to happen," he said.
http://http://www.palmbeachpost.com/localnews/content/local_news/epaper/2008/11/11/1111okteen.html
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So a kid just mysteriously, suddenly died?
That was 2008. Any explanation yet, other than "he just died"? Any coroner- well, any coroner who isn't being bribed or coerced, anyway- will tell you that teenagers just don't mysteriously keel over dead, splat.
Although I like the idea that he could go "wait, I'm in a fucking program aren't I" and just instantly decide to cease living.
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So a kid just mysteriously, suddenly died?
That was 2008. Any explanation yet, other than "he just died"? Any coroner- well, any coroner who isn't being bribed or coerced, anyway- will tell you that teenagers just don't mysteriously keel over dead, splat.
Although I like the idea that he could go "wait, I'm in a fucking program aren't I" and just instantly decide to cease living.
So the latest definition of abuse is forcing the kids to play Basketball. At least the abusive ways have improved from being forced to sit in a hobbit to playing basketball. Pretty soon Friday night pizza and a movie will be considered abusive. lol
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Adderall XR causes "sudden death" in Children and Teens.
It has been banned in Canada, but our very own FDA says it's o.k. to give to Americans.
Remember Columbine?
Those kides were on anti-depressents that now carry a "Black-Box" label.
What most people do not know is that phase 5 of a clinical drug tial is YOU the GENERAL PUBLIC.
Phase 1 is only 8 weeks at the very maximum.
These medications are given to children at alarming rates here in the U.S.
ESPECIALLY kids in the care of the STATE or poor kids on Medicaid.
Psych meds cause a miriad of side-effects the most common being suicidal ideation and violence.
You don't hear that on the T.V. commercials do you?
Whenever I hear about an incident like this I wonder................................... :suicide:
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So a kid just mysteriously, suddenly died?
That was 2008. Any explanation yet, other than "he just died"? Any coroner- well, any coroner who isn't being bribed or coerced, anyway- will tell you that teenagers just don't mysteriously keel over dead, splat.
Although I like the idea that he could go "wait, I'm in a fucking program aren't I" and just instantly decide to cease living.
So the latest definition of abuse is forcing the kids to play Basketball.
Where did you see anyone say that?? Stop putting words in others' mouths. Seriously, you do it all the time.
Now, that adderall concern seems a valid one. I don't like the idea of doping kids up to manage them, but that's a much bigger issue than just inside the TTI.
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Here's another news bit that also came out that same day:
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WPTV
State investigating why teen died at Okeechobee detention facility (http://http://www.tcpalm.com/news/2008/nov/11/state-investigating-why-teen-died-okeechobee-deten/)
Posted November 11, 2008 at 6:26 a.m.
OKEECHOBEE — State officials are investigating what led to a teen's death at an Okeechobee detention facility.
The 16-year-old had only been there for 24 hours when he suddenly collapsed. Kevin Christie collapsed while playing basketball Friday at the Eckerd Youth Development Center in Okeechobee.
He died a short time later at Raulerson Hospital in Okeechobee.
Christie had arrived at the facility just 24 hours earlier.
He, like every other inmate here, went through a physical that revealed no medical problems.
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One Comment was left:
schladmin writes, November 11, 2008 10:28 a.m.:
Maybe the state should be looking at the amount of drugs that finds its way into this facility. Its easy to do, ask to the see the positive drug test history's on kids,staff brings it in all the times. Not just marijuana but pills exstasy,etc. maybe the kid got hold of bad stuff that was passed around. since the Supervisor determines what is a crime or not no wonder the local pd doesnt know the problems here
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So a kid just mysteriously, suddenly died?
That was 2008. Any explanation yet, other than "he just died"? Any coroner- well, any coroner who isn't being bribed or coerced, anyway- will tell you that teenagers just don't mysteriously keel over dead, splat.
Although I like the idea that he could go "wait, I'm in a fucking program aren't I" and just instantly decide to cease living.
So the latest definition of abuse is forcing the kids to play Basketball.
Where did you see anyone say that?? Stop putting words in others' mouths. Seriously, you do it all the time.
Where did it state (or was insinuated), in the article, that the coroner is being bribed or coerced. I guess you skimmed on over that statement... lol. The kid was playing Basketball and then died. We have a couple kids in this state alone that this has happened to, but no reports of coroners being bribed have surfaced nor do people suspect this. This seems to be a fornits thing. The same as abuse seems to take on its own definition here also. But I think you know that.
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Where did it state (or was insinuated), in the article, that the coroner is being bribed or coerced. I guess you skimmed on over that statement... lol.
No, I saw it. I just didn't see where anyone said, or implied, that playing basketball was abuse.
The kid was playing Basketball and then died. We have a couple kids in this state alone that this has happened to, but no reports of coroners being bribed have surfaced nor do people suspect this. This seems to be a fornits thing. The same as abuse seems to take on its own definition here also. But I think you know that.
We question whether or not there was adequate care, not that playing basketball was abusive in and of itself....but you knew that already. And I plainly stated that I think this is a much bigger issue than just within the TTI. But you already knew that.
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Kevin Christie collapsed while playing basketball Friday at the Eckerd Youth Development Center in Okeechobee.
There was a kid at Hyde, 14-year old James Roman, who also collapsed while playing basketball, and later died as well. His former roommate posted here (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=22965&p=279295#p279291) a while back. From what I gather, which may or may not be the whole story although it is certainly believable, Roman died of a brain aneurysm, exasperated by or brought on by an enlarged heart.
I guess the question which most concerns me, presuming there was no foul play or aberrant medication issues in either of these cases (info on this being absent), is ... did these kids receive medical attention in time? Or was it delayed a bit, 'cuz of program issues? And if so, might this delay have caused a critical difference in outcome?
I can recall, from my time at Hyde, that not only were kids sometimes pushed to extreme levels of exertion (the "fate of your soul" depended on how hard you could push yourself), but oft times quite serious injuries were sloughed off as "faking" or malingering. They would even convince you to not take your injuries seriously.
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No, I saw it. I just didn't see where anyone said, or implied, that playing basketball was abuse.
Exactly, thank you, so you also didnt see where anyone said, in the article, that the coroner was being bribed or coerced.
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Kevin Christie collapsed while playing basketball Friday at the Eckerd Youth Development Center in Okeechobee.
There was a kid at Hyde, 14-year old James Roman, who also collapsed while playing basketball, and later died as well. His former roommate posted here (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=22965&p=279295#p279291) a while back. From what I gather, which may or may not be the whole story although it is certainly believable, Roman died of a brain aneurysm, exasperated by or brought on by an enlarged heart.
I guess the question which most concerns me, presuming there was no foul play or aberrant medication issues in either of these cases (info on this being absent), is ... did these kids receive medical attention in time? Or was it delayed a bit, 'cuz of program issues? And if so, might this delay have caused a critical difference in outcome?
I can recall, from my time at Hyde, that not only were kids sometimes pushed to extreme levels of exertion (the "fate of your soul" depended on how hard you could push yourself), but oft times quite serious injuries were sloughed off as "faking" or malingering. They would even convince you to not take your injuries seriously.
Time....That’s a fair concern. I could see staff reacting a little less intensely to kids in a program than say kids on a regular high school team. The staff may be use to kids (or desensitized) to kids faking injuries etc. to get out some duties perhaps. What would a childs motive be to fake an injury in highschool basket ball… 911 would be called more quickly because it doesn’t happen as often and taken at face value with having to eliminate the possibility of the child faking it which could cause a few minutes or seconds to be lost in call for help, maybe.
So I could see time as a factor.
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No, I saw it. I just didn't see where anyone said, or implied, that playing basketball was abuse.
Exactly, thank you, so you also didnt see where anyone said, in the article, that the coroner was being bribed or coerced.
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Yes, I saw that.....still doesn't mean that anyone implied that having the kids play basketball was abusive. What it implied was that there's a possibility that there was not adequate care or supervision. Stop twisting what people say.
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No, I saw it. I just didn't see where anyone said, or implied, that playing basketball was abuse.
Exactly, thank you, so you also didnt see where anyone said, in the article, that the coroner was being bribed or coerced.
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Yes, I saw that.....still doesn't mean that anyone implied that having the kids play basketball was abusive. What it implied was that there's a possibility that there was not adequate care or supervision. Stop twisting what people say.
.. the words used were bribed and coerced in reference to the coroner.
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.. the words used were bribed and coerced in reference to the coroner.
Yes, but it still doesn't explain how you are conflating that with "us" saying that having kids play basketball is abusive. No one said it but you insisted that we did.
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.. the words used were bribed and coerced in reference to the coroner.
Yes, but it still doesn't explain how you are conflating that with "us" saying that having kids play basketball is abusive. No one said it but you insisted that we did.
Pile used the words bribed and coerced in regard to the coroner. If there was some history of this coroner being bribed then I could see the concern. but this was never established. People allow comments like this to get passed through and accepted at face value while others like Basketball is abusive does not.
So the reader can easily see the double standard of which implied statement got picked out for review. This in itself is interesting.
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.. the words used were bribed and coerced in reference to the coroner.
Yes, but it still doesn't explain how you are conflating that with "us" saying that having kids play basketball is abusive. No one said it but you insisted that we did.
Pile used the words bribed and coerced in regard to the coroner. If there was some history of this coroner being bribed then I could see the concern. but this was never established. People allow comments like this to get passed through and accepted at face value while others like Basketball is abusive does not.
So the reader can easily see the double standard of which implied statement got picked out for review. This in itself is interesting.
Now you're reaching. Again.
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Now you're reaching. Again.
I know. I didn’t mean to pick on you but I thought it was important to point out how information is handled here on fornits. I have been forever fascinated with this aspect of the forum.
A poster could come onto fornits and say : “XYZ Program really helped me….” And they would be received with a barrage of posters questioning the statement and challenging the words. Even going so far as calling the person brainwashed.
Another poster can come on and say: “I was wrapped head to toe in duct tape and thrown into the ocean during a typhoon” lol And people would say very little to challenge the statement even though it is remarkable.
I have never been able to figure out, for sure, why that is. I am not totally sure if everyone here even realizes that this occurs. But I am fascinated by the bias just the same and watching it play itself out over and over again.
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Anne, stop wasting your time with it. We know that local-yokel coroners in areas with a strong program presence always (http://http://www.nospank.net/n-p18r.htm) tell the truth.
It's either the coroner or the news organizations simply not reporting, which is even more disturbing. Because nobody just dies. In the event that anyone "just dies" there's a whole lot of very interesting medical study to be done. He was sixteen years old, healthy enough to play basketball, and then he just fell over and died. No explanation, no follow-up, he's just dead and nobody gives a fuck. He's in the "care" of Eckerds, which presumably knows what medications he's on, and then presto, he's not living anymore.
Apparently Eckerds is a place where kids just randomly keel over and die, and everybody in the area's cool with that.
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Now you're reaching. Again.
I know. I didn’t mean to pick on you but I thought it was important to point out how information is handled here on fornits. I have been forever fascinated with this aspect of the forum.
A poster could come onto fornits and say : “XYZ Program really helped me….” And they would be received with a barrage of posters questioning the statement and challenging the words. Even going so far as calling the person brainwashed.
Another poster can come on and say: “I was wrapped head to toe in duct tape and thrown into the ocean during a typhoon” lol And people would say very little to challenge the statement even though it is remarkable.
I have never been able to figure out, for sure, why that is. I am not totally sure if everyone here even realizes that this occurs. But I am fascinated by the bias just the same and watching it play itself out over and over again.
Because, unlike you, we've actually been subjected to programs and know what goes on behind closed doors. You will never be able to understand the effect on the psyche that it has. As we've said countless times (at least I know I have)....when I first got out of Straight, I swore allegiance to it and believed that it "saved my life". It wasn't until I had some time away from the extreme isolation and groupthink and some exposure to the real world and some decent, true therapy that I began to see and understand what happened to me. We who have been on the inside recognize the loaded language. You, as an outsider, would not. We, who have been on the inside, know that the stuff you call outrageous or 'remarkable' are entirely possible because so many of us experienced it ourselves at various programs that utilize the "therapeutic community" or "positive peer pressure" approach. It's all soooooo similar. I was reading the article about Elan just a bit ago and could have written it myself about Straight. The common factors in these places are too much to be isolated incidents and are quite scary to those of us who have been subjected to it.
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Anne, stop wasting your time with it. We know that local-yokel coroners in areas with a strong program presence always (http://http://www.nospank.net/n-p18r.htm) tell the truth.
It's either the coroner or the news organizations simply not reporting, which is even more disturbing. Because nobody just dies. In the event that anyone "just dies" there's a whole lot of very interesting medical study to be done. He was sixteen years old, healthy enough to play basketball, and then he just fell over and died. No explanation, no follow-up, he's just dead and nobody gives a fuck. He's in the "care" of Eckerds, which presumably knows what medications he's on, and then presto, he's not living anymore.
Apparently Eckerds is a place where kids just randomly keel over and die, and everybody in the area's cool with that.
Ha,Ha,Ha, Thats funny I rest my case. Eckerd is found guilty, Maybe the coroner was bribed after all! lol
Classic, thank you Pile. Perfect Timing.
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Because nobody just dies.
Yeah, sometimes they do. I had a neighbor who was healthy all thru life that dropped dead on the college soccer field due to an undiagnosed aneurysm. It's not common, but not unheard of. Now, if this were one of the "death by hiking" situations, I'd be much more apt to believe off the bat that the program had some involvement. They might have here as well, I don't know yet.
In the event that anyone "just dies" there's a whole lot of very interesting medical study to be done. He was sixteen years old, healthy enough to play basketball, and then he just fell over and died. No explanation, no follow-up, he's just dead and nobody gives a fuck. He's in the "care" of Eckerds, which presumably knows what medications he's on, and then presto, he's not living anymore.
Yeah, I agree that there needs to be an investigation.
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Now you're reaching. Again.
I know. I didn’t mean to pick on you but I thought it was important to point out how information is handled here on fornits. I have been forever fascinated with this aspect of the forum.
A poster could come onto fornits and say : “XYZ Program really helped me….” And they would be received with a barrage of posters questioning the statement and challenging the words. Even going so far as calling the person brainwashed.
Another poster can come on and say: “I was wrapped head to toe in duct tape and thrown into the ocean during a typhoon” lol And people would say very little to challenge the statement even though it is remarkable.
I have never been able to figure out, for sure, why that is. I am not totally sure if everyone here even realizes that this occurs. But I am fascinated by the bias just the same and watching it play itself out over and over again.
Because, unlike you, we've actually been subjected to programs and know what goes on behind closed doors. You will never be able to understand the effect on the psyche that it has. As we've said countless times (at least I know I have)....when I first got out of Straight, I swore allegiance to it and believed that it "saved my life". It wasn't until I had some time away from the extreme isolation and groupthink and some exposure to the real world and some decent, true therapy that I began to see and understand what happened to me. We who have been on the inside recognize the loaded language. You, as an outsider, would not. We, who have been on the inside, know that the stuff you call outrageous or 'remarkable' are entirely possible because so many of us experienced it ourselves at various programs that utilize the "therapeutic community" or "positive peer pressure" approach. It's all soooooo similar. I was reading the article about Elan just a bit ago and could have written it myself about Straight. The common factors in these places are too much to be isolated incidents and are quite scary to those of us who have been subjected to it.
Well said, fair enough. I can see your point of view and how you got there.
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Whooter, guilty of what crime? The sheriff's department didn't even investigate. And why would they, really? What possible interest could Florida authorities have in another dead kid? Why would Florida news organizations bother to follow up? It's not like the kid's life had any meaning or substance whatsoever; just another body for the Pile. Business as usual.
Anne, yes, people have aneurysms or heart attacks or strokes or any of the many other bodily dysfunctions that kill someone instantly. But we don't have anything reporting that. We just have "Eh, whatever, he's dead."
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Anne, yes, people have aneurysms or heart attacks or strokes or any of the many other bodily dysfunctions that kill someone instantly. But we don't have anything reporting that. We just have "Eh, whatever, he's dead."
Agreed, totally. It needs to be investigated.
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Oh, geez, don't I feel silly. I didn't look at the picture. Now I know why nobody investigated it. He was BLACK! Duh. Don't we have enough of them running around as it is? And storing dead niggers ain't my fuckin... oh, wait, I guess it is.
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Whooter, guilty of what crime? The sheriff's department didn't even investigate. And why would they, really? What possible interest could Florida authorities have in another dead kid? Why would Florida news organizations bother to follow up? It's not like the kid's life had any meaning or substance whatsoever; just another body for the Pile. Business as usual.
Anne, yes, people have aneurysms or heart attacks or strokes or any of the many other bodily dysfunctions that kill someone instantly. But we don't have anything reporting that. We just have "Eh, whatever, he's dead."
Of course it should be investigated. But because it wasn’t posted in the paper doesn’t mean there is a cover up or that it wasn’t investigated. Usually it means the opposite in my experience. What most likely happened is the coroner’s report came out and the results were not news worthy. If they found the kid was abused, died of a rare disease, something interesting or came from a rich family then they would have had a follow-up story. But another kid dying of an enlarged heart or genetic defect maybe didn’t make the cut that week as far as publishing. Maybe the kidnapped Florida girl got the headlines that week and by the time that died down this boys death was old news. There could be many reasons.
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I believe this is Kevin Cristie's official obituary; I've been unable to find any other mention of him or his death in the news archives:
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St. Petersburg Times
Epilogue | Kevin Christie
Teen left behind his hopes for a second change (http://http://www.tampabay.com/news/obituaries/article903973.ece?comments=legacy)
Andrew Meacham, Times staff writer
In Print: Saturday, November 15, 2008
(http://http://www.tampabay.com/multimedia/archive/00045/B4S_Christie111508_45956d.jpeg)
TEMPLE TERRACE — For a year inside the Orient Road Jail, Kevin Christie reassured his family that everything would be okay. He had screwed up and was paying the consequences. But just wait, Kevin predicted — he would make them proud.
But just as he was entering the final phase of his detention, Kevin collapsed while playing basketball and later died on Friday, his second full day at a juvenile rehabilitation center in Okeechobee. He was 16.
"He was the type of person who when he was right would defend himself, or when he was wrong he would say, 'Okay, I was wrong,' " said family friend Alejo Vickers, 23.
Friends say Kevin remained upbeat despite the absence of his parents in recent years. His father was arrested and deported to Jamaica several years ago. Two years ago, Kevin's mother returned to Jamaica.
He stayed with relatives and friends while attending King High in Tampa. He completed chores and obeyed curfews, said Dana Hamilton, a friend's mother who took Kevin in. He composed rap music and talked of going into the music business.
Everyone has a theory about what went wrong. Some point to the rootlessness of his haphazard living arrangements. Others say Kevin was quick to bond with those he admired, whether they were good or bad.
In October 2007, Kevin was arrested for armed burglary, a felony, and other offenses. Over the next year he complained about the food to his aunt and showed off his grades from alternative school.
"He was brilliant and smart, an 'A' student," said Deonne Crewe, 41. "He just made one bad mistake."
On Nov. 5, Kevin was transferred to the Eckerd Youth Development Center in Okeechobee. At 6 p.m. on Friday, authorities say, he leaned over during a basketball game to assist a player who had fallen — and collapsed.
Two staffers rushed to perform CPR, said Frank Penela, a spokesman for the state's Department of Juvenile Justice. Paramedics transferred Kevin to Raulerson Hospital, where he died at 7:20 p.m.
Autopsy results from the Okeechobee County Medical Examiner's Office are pending and could take weeks. The Okeechobee County Sheriff's Office is not investigating the case, spokesman Ted Van Deman said.
Kevin has passed a physical just a day before the game, said Karen Bonsignori of the Eckerd facility. Nothing in his file indicated a prior medical condition, she said.
Hours before he died, Kevin left a message through a legal guardian. "He said, 'Tell my family I love them and to pray for me.' " Crewe recalled. " 'In no time they'll see me again.' "
Andrew Meacham can be reached at (813) 661-2431 or ameacham@sptimes.com.
Biography
Kevin O. Christie
Born: Nov. 22, 1991.
Died: Nov. 7, 2008.
Survivors: sister, Kerryann; brother, Kareem; mother, Denise Crew: father, Kevin Christie.
Service: To be arranged.[/list]
[Last modified: Nov 14, 2008 09:50 PM]
Copyright 2010 St. Petersburg Times
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Yup, an enlarged heart isn't newsworthy- just ask James White, already part of the Pile. And then the same coroner, Gary Kirchner, diagnosed Joey Aletriz (another proud Pile member) with the exact same thing, just two months later! Boy, these Florida kids just kind of have all these heart attacks when exercising, don't they? Never mind that a forensic pathologist that the family hired found out that Joey had a number of contusions and bruises on his body signifying death by restraint.
That also reminds me of what Charles F. Sieber, Jr. originally reported about Martin Lee Anderson's death (oh hey, another Pile member): Sickle cell trait. Yup. Sickle cell trait. That's exactly what did it. The beating he received beforehand was just incidental.
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Yup, an enlarged heart isn't newsworthy- just ask James White, already part of the Pile. And then the same coroner, Gary Kirchner, diagnosed Joey Aletriz (another proud Pile member) with the exact same thing, just two months later! Boy, these Florida kids just kind of have all these heart attacks when exercising, don't they? Never mind that a forensic pathologist that the family hired found out that Joey had a number of contusions and bruises on his body signifying death by restraint.
Its news worthy up here in Massachusetts because we read about it when it occurs. We had two kids die within the same school district even. This isn’t unique to Florida or to Residential Treatment Centers. As I remember it almost always occurred when the kids were currently involved in a sporting activity at the time. If the coroner had a history of being bribed then I could see being concerned. But I haven’t seen that written anywhere yet.
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Guess what the medical examiner's office listed as the cause of death for Kevin. Ready? "Cardiac dysrhythmia due to myocardial hypertrophy, etiology undetermined". PM me if you want to know where I got this, it wouldn't be polite for me to help send morons up his ass.
Translation from Medical: An enlarged heart. Again. Hot shit, what are the odds? It's a fucking plague.
Oh and the coroner this time was Roger Mittleman, who has some... interesting.. articles on him from when he was in Miami.
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Translation from Medical: An enlarged heart. Again. Hot shit, what are the odds? It's a fucking plague.
Hmm. Same as 14-year-old James Roman (posted earlier (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=26133#p364415) in this thread). I wonder how common that is in teenagers? I honestly don't know. I've generally read about it in reference to adults...
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Translation from Medical: An enlarged heart. Again. Hot shit, what are the odds? It's a fucking plague.
Hmm. Same as 14-year-old James Roman (posted earlier (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=26133#p364415) in this thread). I wonder how common that is in teenagers? I honestly don't know. I've generally read about it in reference to adults...
Its actually more common in teens:
It happens all over the country, it is not unique to programs at all. Here are some reports I found during a google search:
Each start of the new school year, headlines bear the names of a handful of young, seemingly healthy athletes who die suddenly on the basketball court, the football field, or the track.
Already this school year, three Houston-area teen athletes, ranging from 12 to 19 years old have died suddenly during or following athletic workouts. Though one was attributed to an aggressive form of meningitis, the other two were determined to be either from enlarged hearts or fatal arrhythmias.
Link (http://http://publicaffairs.uth.tmc.edu/hleader/archive/Children_Teens/2004/suddendeath-0923.html)
People of any age can develop hypertrophic cardiomyopathy. Often people with hypertrophic cardiomyopathy have no symptoms. Unfortunately, the first sign of the condition may be sudden death caused by an abnormal heart rhythm. When symptoms do appear, they include shortness of breath on exertion, dizziness, fainting, fatigue, and chest pain. The American Heart Association reports that 36% of young athletes who die suddenly have probable or definite hypertrophic cardiomyopathy.
Link (http://http://www.teenhealthfx.com/answers/Health/20572.html)
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I wonder how common that is in teenagers? I honestly don't know. I've generally read about it in reference to adults...
According to the University of Texas (http://http://publicaffairs.uth.tmc.edu/hleader/archive/Children_Teens/2004/suddendeath-0923.html), sudden collapse occurs in 1/20,000 people, with a tenth of those dying. This is enough to put it as "fucking rare", but since we don't have any credible numbers (news organizations don't report every death, program total-detainee numbers are laughably inflated), we can't hope to get an accurate gauge of program victims versus the general population.
And of course hypertension (http://http://www.medpagetoday.com/Cardiology/Hypertension/4824) is a contributor. Hypertension? In program victims? Naaaaaaw, say it ain't so!
Genetic risk factor + brutal environment + nobody giving enough of a shit to get them to a hospital soon enough = death.
And that's assuming the local medical examiner is telling the truth. Kevin's case? Mmm, probably. James White's? Probably not.
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Interesting numbers, Pile, so looking at this rough and dirty (from what I remember reading) lets say there are about 28 million teenagers in the United States. Based on your 1/20,000 kids statistic that would mean we could expect to see 1,400 kids collapse with 140 dying or roughly 3 in every state (each year).
Already this school year, three Houston-area teen athletes, ranging from 12 to 19 years old have died suddenly during or following athletic workouts. Though one was attributed to an aggressive form of meningitis, the other two were determined to be either from enlarged hearts or fatal arrhythmias.
Also there were 3 kids who died, just in the Houston area, in less than a year when that article was written. So maybe there could be a regional factor also along with hypertension.
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Interesting numbers, Pile, so looking at this rough and dirty (from what I remember reading) lets say there are about 28 million teenagers in the United States. Based on your 1/20,000 kids statistic that would mean we could expect to see 1,400 kids collapse with 140 dying or roughly 3 in every state (each year).
No, you fucking moron.
The statistic was *ever* during a person's lifetime, not yearly. So even if we postulate that half of the sudden deaths are in the teenage years (half of everyone who is ever going to die from this will die as a teenager), and we take "being a teenager" as between the ages 13-19, a seven-year period, we can reasonably approximate that of the 28 million teenagers, 140 of them are eventually going to die from this, 70 of them are going to die as a teenager, and 10 of them are going to die this year.
And "in every state"? Really? Do I even have to explain what's wrong with this?
Aren't statistics fun? Wouldn't it be nice if you actually knew them?
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Wow lol, you are sensitive to people not agreeing with you. To put it nicely I see it a little differently, Pile, since people are entering the group (12/13 – 19 year olds) and leaving them each year and we are focusing on just this group (they are not tracing them throughout their life, people in their 80’s etc., just teens) then each year there will be 1 child out of 20,000 (staying with the defined boundary condition of 12/13- 19) will have a predisposition to sudden death (or 1,400 children) of these 140 will die or about 3 per state.
I found it interesting that the State of Texas had 3 children in one small district alone (in less than a year). I know we have had a few in Massachusetts last year. I wonder if there are any total numbers out there anywhere. That may help to nail down an actual annual statistic for us.
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From Whooter's second link in the post (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=26133&p=364723#p364694) above; emphases added solely for the sake of clarity:
Some of the many causes of enlarged heart include (http://http://www.teenhealthfx.com/answers/Health/20572.html):
- Coronary artery disease - fatty deposits or plaques build up inside one or more of the coronary arteries (arteriosclerosis). This constant silting narrows the artery. This reduces the oxygen supply, which is the fuel for the pump.
[li]High blood pressure (hypertension) - blood pumps with more force than usual through the arteries, which puts strain on the heart. Causes of high blood pressure include obesity and a sedentary lifestyle. - Idiopathic dilated cardiomyopathy - disease of the heart muscle, the cause of which is unknown. Enlarged or 'dilated' heart is one of the most common types of cardiomyopathy. Some of the symptoms include chest pain and fainting spells.
- Myocarditis - an infection of the heart that is generally caused by a virus. A person may have a viral illness first and later have symptoms of congestive heart failure.
- Heart valve disease - for example, a faulty mitral valve allows blood to flow backwards, which means the affected heart chamber has to contract with more force than usual.
- Cardiac ischaemia - reduced blood flow to the heart. This condition can cause heart pain (angina) and often results from coronary artery disease.
- Previous heart attack - a weakened heart muscle may enlarge in order to keep up with the demands of pumping blood around the body.
- Thyroid disease - the thyroid gland regulates many metabolic functions. Untreated, a thyroid condition can lead to high blood pressure, high blood cholesterol levels, irregular heartbeat and enlargement of the heart.
- Obesity - carrying too much body fat is a risk factor for high blood pressure, which in turn can cause the heart to enlarge.
- Lack of exercise - leading a sedentary lifestyle is a known risk factor for a range of conditions, including coronary heart disease and high blood pressure.
- Old age - as we get older, our arteries lose some of their elasticity. This 'stiffening' of the blood vessels causes high blood pressure, which is a risk factor for enlarged heart.
[/li][/list]
@Whooter: I find your emphasis on the following quote, and the context in which it was presented, to be potentially quite misleading:
The American Heart Association reports that 36% of young athletes who die suddenly have probable or definite hypertrophic cardiomyopathy.
Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that that statistic is correct, and 36% of young athletes who die suddenly probably have or definitely have an enlarged heart.
But... just how many young athletes up and die suddenly?
Not that many.
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Interesting numbers, Pile, so looking at this rough and dirty (from what I remember reading) lets say there are about 28 million teenagers in the United States. Based on your 1/20,000 kids statistic that would mean we could expect to see 1,400 kids collapse with 140 dying or roughly 3 in every state (each year).
Somehow, the way you present it implies that it's more common than it actually is.
To put this kind of event into perspective, here's a quote from your first link in the post (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=26133&p=364723#p364694) above, color emphasis added:
Don't live in fear (http://http://publicaffairs.uth.tmc.edu/hleader/archive/Children_Teens/2004/suddendeath-0923.html)
Reports of sudden death are scary, but parents and students should keep in mind that, despite the media blitz these cases receive, this is an unusual event. It seems that with each tragic loss, the anxiety and fear of children dying of this is elevated exponentially above the actually risk.
"Cardiac conditions with a predisposition to sudden death during or following exercise occur in about 5 of 100,000 participants and sudden death occurs in 0.5 of 100,000 people," Rao says.[/list]
Also there were 3 kids who died, just in the Houston area, in less than a year when that article was written. So maybe there could be a regional factor also along with hypertension.
I guess there must be more kids in Texas than in Massachusetts, ya think? So maybe your 3 kids per state rule is not too applicable in real life?
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From Whooter's second link, emphases added solely for the sake of clarity:
Some of the many causes of enlarged heart include (http://http://www.teenhealthfx.com/answers/Health/20572.html):
- Coronary artery disease - fatty deposits or plaques build up inside one or more of the coronary arteries (arteriosclerosis). This constant silting narrows the artery. This reduces the oxygen supply, which is the fuel for the pump.
[li]High blood pressure (hypertension) - blood pumps with more force than usual through the arteries, which puts strain on the heart. Causes of high blood pressure include obesity and a sedentary lifestyle. - Idiopathic dilated cardiomyopathy - disease of the heart muscle, the cause of which is unknown. Enlarged or 'dilated' heart is one of the most common types of cardiomyopathy. Some of the symptoms include chest pain and fainting spells.
- Myocarditis - an infection of the heart that is generally caused by a virus. A person may have a viral illness first and later have symptoms of congestive heart failure.
- Heart valve disease - for example, a faulty mitral valve allows blood to flow backwards, which means the affected heart chamber has to contract with more force than usual.
- Cardiac ischaemia - reduced blood flow to the heart. This condition can cause heart pain (angina) and often results from coronary artery disease.
- Previous heart attack - a weakened heart muscle may enlarge in order to keep up with the demands of pumping blood around the body.
- Thyroid disease - the thyroid gland regulates many metabolic functions. Untreated, a thyroid condition can lead to high blood pressure, high blood cholesterol levels, irregular heartbeat and enlargement of the heart.
- Obesity - carrying too much body fat is a risk factor for high blood pressure, which in turn can cause the heart to enlarge.
- Lack of exercise - leading a sedentary lifestyle is a known risk factor for a range of conditions, including coronary heart disease and high blood pressure.
- Old age - as we get older, our arteries lose some of their elasticity. This 'stiffening' of the blood vessels causes high blood pressure, which is a risk factor for enlarged heart.
[/li][/list]
I find Whooter's emphasis on the following quote and the context in which it was presented to be potentially quite misleading:
The American Heart Association reports that 36% of young athletes who die suddenly have probable or definite hypertrophic cardiomyopathy.
Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that that statistic is correct, and 36% of young athletes who die suddenly probably have or definitely have an enlarged heart.
But... just how many young athletes up and die suddenly?
Not that many.
If you compare it to others causes of death in teenagers it is very small and then factor in a statistic that this generally only affects teen athletes it becomes even smaller.
So what I see them saying is 1 in 3 teen atheletes who die suddenly... the cause is found to be hypertrophic cardiomyopathy.
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I guess there must be more kids in Texas than in Massachusetts, ya think? So maybe your 3 kids per state rule is not too applicable in real life?
Exactly.. you take a state like Texas or California you would expect to see more kids than say Rhode Island or Delaware. What I did was take 140 and divide by the 50 states to come up with the approx 3 per state, but in reality some states will have none and others will have many more than 3. The article stated that one community had 3 deaths alone in less than a year in Texas.
So, yea, you cant read as once you get 3 kids dying then all the other parents can breath easier for the rest of the year lol. It is looking at probabilities not absolutes.
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So what I see them saying is 1 in 3 teen atheletes who die suddenly... the cause is found to be hypertrophic cardiomyopathy.
To be precise, the actual quote stated that "36% of young athletes who die suddenly have probable or definite hypertrophic cardiomyopathy." It did not state that that was the actual cause of death, although it might well have been and in most cases, probably was. Personally, I don't think they look too much further once they find that enlarged heart.
Theoretically, it could be a number of other factors, not to mention those factors in concert with an enlarged heart affecting outcome. Messed up medication, for example.
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So what I see them saying is 1 in 3 teen atheletes who die suddenly... the cause is found to be hypertrophic cardiomyopathy.
To be precise, the actual quote stated that "36% of young athletes who die suddenly have probable or definite hypertrophic cardiomyopathy." It did not state that that was the actual cause of death, although it might well have been and in most cases, probably was. Personally, I don't think they look too much further once they find that enlarged heart.
Theoretically, it could be a number of other factors, not to mention those factors in concert with an enlarged heart affecting outcome. Messed up medication, for example.
There use to be a tv show called “Quincy” I think. Which depicted a coroner who would spend a week or two on each case, interviewing neighbors and family, sending samples to labs etc.. But in reality I think it is more like you said. They cut the guy open and if it is an enlarged heart they report it as the cause, take the standard sample and stop there. If the person is famous they may do a lot more testing but if the coroner is as busy as other state employees then they only have a small window of time for each corpse…. Determine the best fit cause of death, look for signs of abuse etc. and move on.
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