Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Straight, Inc. and Derivatives => Topic started by: Bandit73 on October 31, 2008, 01:02:50 PM
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I can't believe I haven't seen more about this here!
I believe it's been confirmed now that Kids Helping Kids (the Pathway Family Center in Cincinnati) has CLOSED!!!!! It went out of business sometime in the past month or so, but we didn't know it until the past few days.
A toast to success...
:cheers:
(Blublub...)
When was the last time this program wasn't operating in the Cincinnati area? 1983??? Just think, we got the place shut down!!!
The fact that we got KHK closed down is almost too good to be true, so I'm not sure what to say.
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yeah, it's vacant, but pfc/khk still owns the property, so it's a wait and see what they do with it situation. One report puts the first open meeting in Indianapolis that had the Ohio clients was held last Friday, the 24th, one day after my birthday. I look at it like a bittersweet deal at this point, but anytime that place is vacant is certainly cool... Give someone a happy hug or something... lol, they'll wonder why and then just tell em what happened, they might hug you back... :seg: :seg: :seg:
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I can't believe I haven't seen more about this here!
I believe it's been confirmed now that Kids Helping Kids (the Pathway Family Center in Cincinnati) has CLOSED!!!!! It went out of business sometime in the past month or so, but we didn't know it until the past few days.
A toast to success...
:cheers:
(Blublub...)
When was the last time this program wasn't operating in the Cincinnati area? 1983??? Just think, we got the place shut down!!!
The fact that we got KHK closed down is almost too good to be true, so I'm not sure what to say.
@Bandit
Wow!
Where have you been? It's on the front page of Fornits, and also here: http://http://www.pathwayfamilycenter.fornits.com
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I always look at the message board, but I don't look at the other Fornits stuff that much.
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I also posted it on www.Care2.org (http://www.Care2.org) with Deprogrammed's blessing.
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Nobody there tonight. (Oct. 31st 2008) No Open Meeting, nothin.
That's at least a whole week without any client [sic] activity.
KHK is gone.............. Cause of death: Protested to death.
Check out this new page, it is in its infancy but it will grow as time goes on, it is a page specifically for closed programs:
http://www.beyondbusiness.net/youarenext.htm (http://www.beyondbusiness.net/youarenext.htm)
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<object width="400" height="345"><param name="movie" value="http://media.imeem.com/v/_FvNfBMLHY/aus=false/pv=2"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://media.imeem.com/v/_FvNfBMLHY/aus=false/pv=2" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="400" height="345" allowFullScreen="true"></embed><a href="http://www.imeem.com/people/i664ZIu/video/9yRNxPbQ/the_offspring_youre_gonna_go_far_kid_music_video/">Youre Gonna Go Far_ Kid. - The Offspring </a></object>
You're Gonna Go Far, Kid
Show me how to lie
You’re getting better all the time
And turning all against the one
Is an art that’s hard to teach
Another clever word
Sets off an unsuspecting herd
And as you get back into line
A mob jumps to their feet
Now dance, fucker, dance
Man, he never had a chance
And no one even knew
It was really only you
And now you steal away
Take him out today
Nice work you did
You’re gonna go far, kid
With a thousand lies
And a good disguise
Hit ‘em right between the eyes
Hit ‘em right between the eyes
When you walk away
Nothing more to say
See the lightning in your eyes
See ‘em running for their lives
Slowly out of line
And drifting closer in your sights
So play it out I’m wide awake
It’s a scene about me
There’s something in your way
And now someone is gonna pay
And if you can’t get what you want
Well it’s all because of me
Now dance, fucker, dance
Man, I never had a chance
And no one even knew
It was really only you
And now you’ll lead the way
Show the light of day
Nice work you did
You’re gonna go far, kid
Trust, deceived!
With a thousand lies
And a good disguise
Hit ‘em right between the eyes
Hit ‘em right between the eyes
When you walk away
Nothing more to say
See the lightning in your eyes
See ‘em running for their lives
Now dance, fucker, dance
He never had a chance
And no one even knew
It was really only you
So dance, fucker, dance
I never had a chance
It was really only you
With a thousand lies
And a good disguise
Hit ‘em right between the eyes
Hit ‘em right between the eyes
When you walk away
Nothing more to say
See the lightning in your eyes
See ‘em running for their lives
Clever alibis
Lord of the flies
Hit ‘em right between the eyes
Hit ‘em right between the eyes
When you walk away
Nothing more to say
See the lightning in your eyes
See ‘em running for their lives
:peace: <-------- Next!
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According to the Secretary of State in Ohio, PFC is alive and well. The fictitious name of TSDRCP (KHK) was officially cancelled in September of 2008, however, the kids remain in treatment at PFC. These Ohio clients have been reported to be temporarily housed in host homes located in Indiana and ODADAS has not moved to terminate the program certification. PFC is not quite dead in Milford, their heart still beats. In order to be dead, there would have to be no signs of life. Also, there is a lot more that goes into this than protesting. The best time to protest PFC has already passed. If you go up there this Friday, you might save yourself 100 down the road. Also, if the people who were in there in the last 5 years file complaints and/or charges NOW, then things would go much faster.
RG
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Check out this new page, it is in its infancy but it will grow as time goes on, it is a page specifically for closed programs:
http://www.beyondbusiness.net/youarenext.htm (http://www.beyondbusiness.net/youarenext.htm)
Samoa. How many programs have opened and closed there? How many organizations are involved? (Hint: less than the indicated number of programs.)
Latest (http://http://www.strugglingteens.com/artman/publish/PanicButtonES_081023.shtml#Jumpto): Manuia Plantation bites the dust in April, 2008; My Choice (Coral Reef) opens in August, 2008.
Sorry. A bit OT.
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Check out this new page, it is in its infancy but it will grow as time goes on, it is a page specifically for closed programs:
http://www.beyondbusiness.net/youarenext.htm (http://www.beyondbusiness.net/youarenext.htm)
Samoa. How many programs have opened and closed there? How many organizations are involved? (Hint: less than the indicated number of programs.)
Latest (http://http://www.strugglingteens.com/artman/publish/PanicButtonES_081023.shtml#Jumpto): Manuia Plantation bites the dust in April, 2008; My Choice (Coral Reef) opens in August, 2008.
Sorry. A bit OT.
Cool, thanks for this. Looks like Lon is leaving a lot of truth out of his equations.
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According to the Secretary of State in Ohio, PFC is alive and well. The fictitious name of TSDRCP (KHK) was officially cancelled in September of 2008, however, the kids remain in treatment at PFC. These Ohio clients have been reported to be temporarily housed in host homes located in Indiana and ODADAS has not moved to terminate the program certification. PFC is not quite dead in Milford, their heart still beats. In order to be dead, there would have to be no signs of life. Also, there is a lot more that goes into this than protesting. The best time to protest PFC has already passed. If you go up there this Friday, you might save yourself 100 down the road. Also, if the people who were in there in the last 5 years file complaints and/or charges NOW, then things would go much faster.
RG
I am trying to do just this right now. I am trying to figure out the statutes of limitations in ohio for this. I don't really know my next step, I have just been waiting to hear back from a lawyer for a while. Maybe there aren't any next steps until I hear back, I'm just very impatient and want to do something to help this place close forever. Any suggestions would be very helpful.
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According to the Secretary of State in Ohio, PFC is alive and well. The fictitious name of TSDRCP (KHK) was officially cancelled in September of 2008, however, the kids remain in treatment at PFC. These Ohio clients have been reported to be temporarily housed in host homes located in Indiana and ODADAS has not moved to terminate the program certification. PFC is not quite dead in Milford, their heart still beats. In order to be dead, there would have to be no signs of life. Also, there is a lot more that goes into this than protesting. The best time to protest PFC has already passed. If you go up there this Friday, you might save yourself 100 down the road. Also, if the people who were in there in the last 5 years file complaints and/or charges NOW, then things would go much faster.
RG
I am trying to do just this right now. I am trying to figure out the statutes of limitations in ohio for this. I don't really know my next step, I have just been waiting to hear back from a lawyer for a while. Maybe there aren't any next steps until I hear back, I'm just very impatient and want to do something to help this place close forever. Any suggestions would be very helpful.
Filling out a declaration is a good thing to do if you haven't done so already. The form can be found on the ISAC page:
http://www.isaccorp.org/pathwayfamilycenter.asp (http://www.isaccorp.org/pathwayfamilycenter.asp) ............go to the bottom of the page for it.
Good luck with the lawyer thing, that is a good thing to do also. Stay current on here and keep in communication, there are always things we can do to expose the program.
peace-out
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Nobody there tonight. (Oct. 31st 2008) No Open Meeting, nothin.
That's at least a whole week without any client [sic] activity.
KHK is gone.............. Cause of death: Protested to death.
Check out this new page, it is in its infancy but it will grow as time goes on, it is a page specifically for closed programs:
http://www.beyondbusiness.net/youarenext.htm (http://www.beyondbusiness.net/youarenext.htm)
Really now@WDtony...............
http://http://pathwayfamilycenter.fornits.com/?page_id=15
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Nobody there tonight. (Oct. 31st 2008) No Open Meeting, nothin.
That's at least a whole week without any client [sic] activity.
KHK is gone.............. Cause of death: Protested to death.
Check out this new page, it is in its infancy but it will grow as time goes on, it is a page specifically for closed programs:
http://www.beyondbusiness.net/youarenext.htm (http://www.beyondbusiness.net/youarenext.htm)
Really now@WDtony...............
http://http://pathwayfamilycenter.fornits.com/?page_id=15
Actually someone I was incarcerated with in KHK managed to get out and did come back with a sign to protest by himself around 1988. He committed suicide a few years later. I am aware that there have been other attempts to protest KHK in the past including the past few years of very necessary and successful coverage. I think I mentioned that the site is in its infancy (which means it is not complete and probably contains errors), and I did not create the site, nor do I run it.
In the future it might be advantageous to ask for clarification before jumping to a conclusion based on loose assumptions. This is the type of emotion-based behavior that can be detrimental to what we are trying to accomplish against programs.
This is not propaganda.
This is how a reasonable person could have responded to this situation:
You: Hey Tony, could you check out the site and fix this error?
Me: Sure, I'll get right on it.
See how easy that could have been? See how reasonable? I don't see any message about this in my inbox.
So please stop attacking those of us who are fighting programs, it doesn't help. Don't take things so personally.
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I have written an e-mail requesting a change of description.
T
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Nobody there tonight. (Oct. 31st 2008) No Open Meeting, nothin.
That's at least a whole week without any client [sic] activity.
KHK is gone.............. Cause of death: Protested to death.
Check out this new page, it is in its infancy but it will grow as time goes on, it is a page specifically for closed programs:
http://www.beyondbusiness.net/youarenext.htm (http://www.beyondbusiness.net/youarenext.htm)
Really now@WDtony...............
http://http://pathwayfamilycenter.fornits.com/?page_id=15
Actually someone I was incarcerated with in KHK managed to get out and did come back with a sign to protest by himself around 1988. He committed suicide a few years later. I am aware that there have been other attempts to protest KHK in the past including the past few years of very necessary and successful coverage. I think I mentioned that the site is in its infancy (which means it is not complete and probably contains errors), and I did not create the site, nor do I run it.
In the future it might be advantageous to ask for clarification before jumping to a conclusion based on loose assumptions. This is the type of emotion-based behavior that can be detrimental to what we are trying to accomplish against programs.
This is not propaganda.
This is how a reasonable person could have responded to this situation:
You: Hey Tony, could you check out the site and fix this error?
Me: Sure, I'll get right on it.
See how easy that could have been? See how reasonable? I don't see any message about this in my inbox.
So please stop attacking those of us who are fighting programs, it doesn't help. Don't take things so personally.
I guess a "reasonable person" might have made sure that the info is accurate before putting that website up.
How is that not in your control when most of the links lead back to you on that website, and to heal, and your heal page?
Heals agenda seems to be to act as if they have been the only ones doing anything pertaining to Kids Helping Kids.
If you do not have control of what is put on that website, then who does? Angela from heal? If so, do you answer to her? Is she your leader?
Your accusations of "attacking those of us who are fighting programs" is completely unfounded and off-base, as there was no mention in that article that anyone was attacking one who protests a program, just bringing the truth to light about the past protests, and debunking the false information that is posted on that website is all. Maybe you should not be so paranoid, and quit assuming that you know everything. Your patronizing tone will get you nowhere. That, in the end is what will be transparent.
Thank you for requesting the information change, but I really don't think it would have happened at all if it were not for that article, based on your past behavior.
I have said my piece of this conversation, and am done with it.
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Great, let's have a song... :jamin:
http://www.ci.royal-oak.mi.us/city/soy05pathway.pdf (http://www.ci.royal-oak.mi.us/city/soy05pathway.pdf)
Did that say Milford up top of that pdf? I can imagine what the pfc printer correction bill is going to be this year, :eek: services in Ohio with ghost hosts in Indiana.
It's not a host, its a ghost, in a program that offers the most...
but wait, what's that sound, Penny's still walkin around...
It's a host, not a ghost, where you never get the most...
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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Actually someone I was incarcerated with in KHK managed to get out and did come back with a sign to protest by himself around 1988. He committed suicide a few years later. I am aware that there have been other attempts to protest KHK in the past including the past few years of very necessary and successful coverage. I think I mentioned that the site is in its infancy (which means it is not complete and probably contains errors), and I did not create the site, nor do I run it.
In the future it might be advantageous to ask for clarification before jumping to a conclusion based on loose assumptions. This is the type of emotion-based behavior that can be detrimental to what we are trying to accomplish against programs.
This is not propaganda.
This is how a reasonable person could have responded to this situation:
You: Hey Tony, could you check out the site and fix this error?
Me: Sure, I'll get right on it.
See how easy that could have been? See how reasonable? I don't see any message about this in my inbox.
So please stop attacking those of us who are fighting programs, it doesn't help. Don't take things so personally.
You are still just as big as twat as you were last week.
Fuck off.
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You are unreasonable [guest], If you would have just sent me a message I could have answered all of these questions. I will not answer any questions who posts cowardly as a guest. I believe I know who you are but I don't know why you are afraid to post as yourself.
I don't know why you are so upset over one little error. I am not afraid of your attack on my character, I live outside of Fornits and people can judge me for themselves.
There are no kids at KHK tonight because of what we have done and you are getting upset over a misunderstanding? I guess by pointing out what I see and sticking up for myself I am exhibiting patronizing behavior. That page states "propaganda" and your post to me on Fornits was addressed to me, therefore you are attacking someone fighting programs. Stop doing that, I didn't do anything wrong.
If it's glory you want, Take it. I cannot understand why you have repeatedly been unreasonable and attacked me over the past year. What is wrong with you? Stop attacking me for no good reason and focus on the programs. I have put a large part of my life into this and I will not apologize for stepping on your toes. I am sorry, but the kids stuck in programs come before your being offended. You are unreasonable about what offends you.
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Actually someone I was incarcerated with in KHK managed to get out and did come back with a sign to protest by himself around 1988. He committed suicide a few years later. I am aware that there have been other attempts to protest KHK in the past including the past few years of very necessary and successful coverage. I think I mentioned that the site is in its infancy (which means it is not complete and probably contains errors), and I did not create the site, nor do I run it.
In the future it might be advantageous to ask for clarification before jumping to a conclusion based on loose assumptions. This is the type of emotion-based behavior that can be detrimental to what we are trying to accomplish against programs.
This is not propaganda.
This is how a reasonable person could have responded to this situation:
You: Hey Tony, could you check out the site and fix this error?
Me: Sure, I'll get right on it.
See how easy that could have been? See how reasonable? I don't see any message about this in my inbox.
So please stop attacking those of us who are fighting programs, it doesn't help. Don't take things so personally.
You are still just as big as twat as you were last week.
Fuck off.
I know your game gook, you're just pissed off because you can't fool me like you fool your droogs and badrooga's.
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Quit bitching, all of you. A program is shut down and everybody who protested or spoke out about them on the net can collectively pat themselves on the back. There is a lot to be proud of here, and very little to bicker about. Where's the next protest?
:cheers:
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Quit bitching, all of you. A program is shut down and everybody who protested or spoke out about them on the net can collectively pat themselves on the back. There is a lot to be proud of here, and very little to bicker about. Where's the next protest?
:cheers:
Next protest? Well, that's a secret. I can tell you it will probably either be in the state of Indiana, or Michigan.
It won't be in Ohio. :poison:
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Quit bitching, all of you. A program is shut down and everybody who protested or spoke out about them on the net can collectively pat themselves on the back. There is a lot to be proud of here, and very little to bicker about. Where's the next protest?
:cheers:
Next protest? Well, that's a secret. I can tell you it will probably either be in the state of Indiana, or Michigan.
It won't be in Ohio. :poison:
Hee hee... Keep the pressure on. one down...
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Reminds me of that song by Yes. "One down, 3 to go...Another town and one more show..."
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Reminds me of that song by Yes. "One down, 3 to go...Another town and one more show..."
LEAVE IT!
Yeah, remember the video? the whole band just stood there the whole time. And as the days passed, the video would change a little more. After a month, the video had completely changed. Wow, Mtv was cool in the early 80's.
Here's one of the versions here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZV8MPxxgkE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZV8MPxxgkE)
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Yeah, remember the video? the whole band just stood there the whole time. And as the days passed, the video would change a little more. After a month, the video had completely changed. Wow, Mtv was cool in the early 80's.
Yes, and I remember how the band was upside-down!
That song was really popular when I was about 11!
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I agree, the bickering should stop. I do not agree that the program is done 100% in Ohio. Closed for good? maybe, maybe not. It's certainly comatose right now. But, the harsh reality is that the kids who were in there are only an hour and a half's drive away, still being treated by the program. The lack of activity is a hollow victory. Besides, IF there were any protest worth having, it would have been at the first open meeting at Indy with the new arrivals. If not then, then the 2nd one. There's still time, the 3rd OM is about the last best one to do. If you really want to make the biggest impact protesting, you should take advantage of once in a lifetime opportunities like that, or find someone who can. Anything's better than nothing in that regard.
Personally, I appreciate communication from all involved... above all else while continuing my efforts in this issue. Lack of it really sucks. I don't worry so much about who does what when as long as there's none of that keeping shit from other people shit. Example: Police video from July's protest. Video was posted that was already posted. The police part was what was requested yet denied. Oh well, whatever. That kind of shit bugs me pretty bad, lol, but it's chump change now. Besides, that was just one little example. I update people, call, email, write letters, post messages too... been there done that, still goin... lol. There is no set way to go about approaching this close the program issue per se, but when someone's standing on toes, and bragging about "nearly a year" on a misinformation laden website, whatever... well, I can see how some people, including myself, would take it in an insulting manner. I believe this line of work is a learning process. Whenever you stand there "KHK TORTURED ME"... and most people who saw that could care less. To the been there done that's, it appears not so much to be about the kids as it's about you. But, like I said earlier, there's no set way and you learn as you go. Consider this a lesson. And, if we learn from it, the program will have MUCH MORE TO FEAR!!!!! LOL... Got that Terri? Monica? Kevin? Betty? :cheers:
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The lack of activity is not a hollow victory if you ask me. I wonder how many kids' parents didn't put them in KHK because they saw us protesting 15 TIMES in the last 11 months.
Yes, it is true that some kids got moved to INDY but how many kids never even went into KHK because of all of our efforts? The vacant building is a huge sign of success. You are surely not implying that protests and our writings are ineffective.
I understand the importance of being realistic but I think you are missing the positives here.
And for the last time, I had nothing to do with the "nearly a year" thing and it has reportedly been fixed.
As for the rest, I can see your points but I don't have time to dissect them and explain everything. If there is some kind of problem with someone not giving credit to someone else, I am probably at fault. I mean, you know who you are and what you've done. I really respect that stuff BIG-TIME but I am not going to blow sunshine up someone's ass.
And with all due respect, I think it is ironic to be told to stop bickering on Fornits. That's like trying to swim without getting wet. Oh well......back atcha, cheers! :cheers:
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I forgot, my bad... :wall: :moon: ::unhappy:: ::poke:: ::deadhorse:: :twofinger: :fuckoff: :whip: :sue: The fornits meatgrinder, lol.
I'll be happy when they are gone from there for good. a new tune of sorts:
let there be torms for them and sun for us
we'll put their asses on a one way bus
Hollow is as Hollow does, the program is what the program was...
when it's gone said and done, we will know that we have won
LOL... whatever, just ignore this nonsense... :beat:
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Tony,
You stated that "emotion based behavior" is detrimental to closing programs or fighting them. I disagree whole heartedly, as it is my anger and outrage that kids are still hurting by the programs hands that always fuels me to continue.
Also, on another note, as for me personally I have never expected any glory from this and I don't think that the elders(meaning the ones that have actually been at this for years before you) of the fight against programs group want glory either. I think that all of us(not including you) want the abuse to stop and just don't want misinformation to keep getting out there, and particularly not from you. When you say to me "I don't like being interviewed, but repeatedly step in front of me with reporters, that says something different to me about you. When you blatently interrupt me when I am trying to get information out of a programmie, and I ask you to stop, and then you do it again within the next few sentences, it also says to me something different about you. I heard you on the phone with that supposed survivor in khk's parking lot the other day quote the exact same line that was on that misinformation website that you and Angela obviously have orchestrated. That exact same line was "yeah we have been protesting khk for nearly a year now." You only corrected yourself to that guy, because I asked you to.
How am I or anyone supposed to think anything different about you, your motives....etc when you act like that? I just want to know how you expect any of us not to think what we have been thinking. Also, by the way here is a little excerpt from your last post: As for the rest, I can see your points but I don't have time to dissect them and explain everything. If there is some kind of problem with someone not giving credit to someone else, I am probably at fault. I mean, you know who you are and what you've done. I really respect that stuff BIG-TIME but I am not going to blow sunshine up someone's ass.
The point here being that you say in one breath that you respect us bigtime, but clearly you do not when you follow it up in the next breath with "I am not going to blow sunshine up someones ass". I have news for you Mr. Know-it-all (Primus), I don't want or need your sunshine I have my own, and so do the rest of the elders. I tried and tried to reach you politely, and nicely many times about this kind of thing. I was trying to help you so that this would not happen. But you will not listen to reason.
You already knew that you and I were finished the night we traveled back from Indiana, and if you didn't well, then that makes you blind. But, aside from that all anyone else ever wanted from you was the same respect that we have been giving you for "nearly a year" now. If you cannot handle respecting others then maybe you should just think on that for awhile.
sincerely,
-DP
P.S. PFC is not closed...KHK is not closed just switched locations....yes it is great that they are not five minutes from me anymore, but what I am really concerned with is those poor kids in there, and the fact that they are now once again uprooted from everything they have ever known, and made to deal with program bullshit again and again while under that same stress of being up-rooted.
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Tony,
You stated that "emotion based behavior" is detrimental to closing programs or fighting them. I disagree whole heartedly, as it is my anger and outrage that kids are still hurting by the programs hands that always fuels me to continue.
Yeah, but check that with your head. There has to be a balance, and sometimes holding back a little in certain areas can produce more of an effect in the long run. Cold calculation has it's benefits. In think you and WdTony could both learn a little form each other.
Will you two shut the fuck up anyway with this bitching, or take it to PMs. it sounds like Marriage counseling. We're all ultimately on the same side, here, so far as I can see, and standing together is a lot better than standing apart. As DP points out, PFC ain't dead.... only KHK is down for now. Protesting almost definately had something to do with that, which is why it should be continued, but it's easier to do that when we're not fighting amongst ourselves.
You both have good points, but try to zoom out, see the big picture: the more arguing and less protesting, the longer kids will suffer in the programs. Stop worrying about who gets the credit for what and just work to make sure it gets done. There will always be people who enjoy the limelight. That ain't necessarily a bad thing, they usually make good PR people. Try to use each other's differences rather than trying to change one-another.
Ps: I probably sound like a motivational speaker since Obama is winning and i'm real giddy about that... anyhoo...
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Tony,
You stated that "emotion based behavior" is detrimental to closing programs or fighting them. I disagree whole heartedly, as it is my anger and outrage that kids are still hurting by the programs hands that always fuels me to continue.
Yeah, but check that with your head. There has to be a balance, and sometimes holding back a little in certain areas can produce more of an effect in the long run. Cold calculation has it's benefits. In think you and WdTony could both learn a little form each other.
Will you two shut the fuck up anyway with this bitching, or take it to PMs. it sounds like Marriage counseling. We're all ultimately on the same side, here, so far as I can see, and standing together is a lot better than standing apart. As DP points out, PFC ain't dead.... only KHK is down for now. Protesting almost definately had something to do with that, which is why it should be continued, but it's easier to do that when we're not fighting amongst ourselves.
You both have good points, but try to zoom out, see the big picture: the more arguing and less protesting, the longer kids will suffer in the programs. Stop worrying about who gets the credit for what and just work to make sure it gets done. There will always be people who enjoy the limelight. That ain't necessarily a bad thing, they usually make good PR people. Try to use each other's differences rather than trying to change one-another.
Ps: I probably sound like a motivational speaker since Obama is winning and i'm real giddy about that... anyhoo...
Psy,
I know that your intentions are probably good here, but you really do not know the whole of this, and should probably not put yourself in the middle here, and please do not tell me to shut the fuck up. I never have told you to shut the fuck up. thank you. BTW, psy I have no trouble balancing anything in my head...why don't you ask Mr. Tony if he does?
-DP
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Oi vey..
Sometimes people just need to get some stuff out in the open. Now to me the wide world of the internet might be a to bit open, but this is the place it went down so there you go. I'm not going to take a side on this publicly other than to say that there are plenty of places to protest and the both of you should have no problems inflicting some Osama/healesque style protestin' or Deprogrammed Protesting 101 on them without having to be around each other.
Now sometimes personalities clash and sometimes they mesh. Whatever hot dogging for the camera or freezing like a deer in the headlights when a staffer approached someone that went on is in the past. I suggest yall pick your targets and avoid each other for awhile. Once you gain some breathing space maybe just agree to disagree and let bygones be bygones.
And Deprogrammed you know I'm always around to listen to you when you need to talk or want to run an idea by me. Tony.. once you've stopped being such a paranoid little feller you are more than welcome to email me when you are ready to. Let me know in advance so I can block your email address.
That's all for me.
peace suckahs!
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Stop worrying about who gets the credit for what and just work to make sure it gets done.
I refuse to hog all the credit. I'm proud of what I did, but everyone deserves a little bit of credit.
And I'm going to do my best to keep an eye on the KHK situation.
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So who in your crew can make it up there to Indy PFC this Friday? Do you know anyone... hell, does anyone know anyone who could hand out some fliers or hold a sign or something along those lines up there this Friday?
If you guys could get something going, that would be awesome! History in the making...
Officials upstairs are reviewing the call:
The call:
KHK is not a valid name for the PFC program anymore, so after all this BS on here, technically, the trade name Kids Helping Kids (at least in Ohio) is dead. Small consolation though since, PFC is still treating the kids from its Ohio program which used the KHK trade name for over 2 years. You can bury the name now...
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Tony,
You stated that "emotion based behavior" is detrimental to closing programs or fighting them. I disagree whole heartedly, as it is my anger and outrage that kids are still hurting by the programs hands that always fuels me to continue.
Also, on another note, as for me personally I have never expected any glory from this and I don't think that the elders(meaning the ones that have actually been at this for years before you) of the fight against programs group want glory either. I think that all of us(not including you) want the abuse to stop and just don't want misinformation to keep getting out there, and particularly not from you. When you say to me "I don't like being interviewed, but repeatedly step in front of me with reporters, that says something different to me about you. When you blatently interrupt me when I am trying to get information out of a programmie, and I ask you to stop, and then you do it again within the next few sentences, it also says to me something different about you. I heard you on the phone with that supposed survivor in khk's parking lot the other day quote the exact same line that was on that misinformation website that you and Angela obviously have orchestrated. That exact same line was "yeah we have been protesting khk for nearly a year now." You only corrected yourself to that guy, because I asked you to.
How am I or anyone supposed to think anything different about you, your motives....etc when you act like that? I just want to know how you expect any of us not to think what we have been thinking. Also, by the way here is a little excerpt from your last post: As for the rest, I can see your points but I don't have time to dissect them and explain everything. If there is some kind of problem with someone not giving credit to someone else, I am probably at fault. I mean, you know who you are and what you've done. I really respect that stuff BIG-TIME but I am not going to blow sunshine up someone's ass.
The point here being that you say in one breath that you respect us bigtime, but clearly you do not when you follow it up in the next breath with "I am not going to blow sunshine up someones ass". I have news for you Mr. Know-it-all (Primus), I don't want or need your sunshine I have my own, and so do the rest of the elders. I tried and tried to reach you politely, and nicely many times about this kind of thing. I was trying to help you so that this would not happen. But you will not listen to reason.
You already knew that you and I were finished the night we traveled back from Indiana, and if you didn't well, then that makes you blind. But, aside from that all anyone else ever wanted from you was the same respect that we have been giving you for "nearly a year" now. If you cannot handle respecting others then maybe you should just think on that for awhile.
sincerely,
-DP
P.S. PFC is not closed...KHK is not closed just switched locations....yes it is great that they are not five minutes from me anymore, but what I am really concerned with is those poor kids in there, and the fact that they are now once again uprooted from everything they have ever known, and made to deal with program bullshit again and again while under that same stress of being up-rooted.
Well, you are entitled to your opinion. I do give you credit for posting as yourself.
I had no idea there were "Elders" and that you were one. Actually, we are the same age, and we are adults now. Elders....that's a funny word. Reminds me of Lord Of The Rings or something. This is starting to reming me of Dungeons and Dragons but I quit playing that when I was 12.
My memories of what you have described are a bit different than what you have written. For instance, I never jumped in front of you. The reporter in Indiana said she wanted to talk to me, so I talked to her and then you did. I don't see a problem with my actions here and I certainly didn't jump in front of anyone. And I do hate being interviewed but I realized that getting the word out is the only way to bring public awareness. It makes me nervous, you should be thanking me instead of attacking me for it. Who's side are you on anyway?
As for the girl in Indy (as you have reffered to as a programmie, which she was not), here is what actually happened: , As you were talking to her, I remained silent until "she asked me" a question. I thought it would be impolite to not respond so I answered her and you got angry. Then "she asked me" another question and I answered again and once more you got angry. How is that disrespectful? Keep in mind here the whole "she asked me" thing. I think you should have paid more attention and you might not be so angry.
I respect people for what they have done, sometimes including how long they have been fighting programs. However, I do not respect people who treat me with disrespect just because I am new to the scene or because I get more attention. I think we need more attention brought to the issue of programs and "I have to use my experience because that is all I have". If it upsets you that I get attention, I don't really care. Please get over it. I am in this to take down programs and not to play little games as to who's who and worry who needs a little more coddling.
To insinuate that I don't want to stop abuse is insulting and outrageous. For some reason, you have hated me from early on. But now you have resorted to trying to assault my character and that is unacceptable. This is mainly because what you state is not true, whether you are basing your ideas on assumptions, misunderstandings or outright lies. I have tried to work with you over the past year for the benefit of closing programs but I realize that it isn't worth it.
Good luck in fighting against programs, although I have a great distaste for you and how you treat others, I hate programs more than almost anything else. I don't foresee myself ever working with you again but if you do anything detrimental to programs, I will be very content.
KHK is dead. :poison:
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I'm goin' down to Pathway
Gonna have myself a time
Friendly faces everywhere
Humble folks without temptation
Goin' down to Pathway
Gonna leave my woes behind
Ample parking day or night
People shouting "Howdy, neighbor!"
Heading on up to Pathway
Gonna see if I can't unwind
I like girls with big fat titties, I like girls with big vaginas
Come on down to Pathway and meet some friends of mine
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KHK is dead.
I'm not interested in interjecting myself into the middle of a battle here, so please understand this is a FRIENDLY reminder... "Rebekah" was technically closed when I was dropped off in Corpus Christi, and remained "closed" for the duration of my stay there, and many years thereafter. A program ain't 'dead' until the money dries up.
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KHK is dead.
I'm not interested in interjecting myself into the middle of a battle here, so please understand this is a FRIENDLY reminder... "Rebekah" was technically closed when I was dropped off in Corpus Christi, and remained "closed" for the duration of my stay there, and many years thereafter. A program ain't 'dead' until the money dries up.
What do you hope to accomplish by posting this? I think you have wasted my time and yours.
KHK is dead and gone. Be happy about it. It's old news now. Focus on the future.
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We are re-grouping and will set sites on the next program to expose and close. We are patient and methodical. We will implement a course of action when it is agreed upon. We will create a strategy and make changes as we learn. We will win because losing is not an option for us. We are passionate and use this to fuel our resolve. We are also exploring every avenue to expose the industry as a whole.
Our objective: To close programs as effectively and efficiently as possible. Also to create viable ideas about fighting programs for others by examining our successes and our failures recently and in the past.
Programs can and have been shut down. Things were more difficult in the past but more recently there is an ongoing Congressional Investigation about the "troubled teen racket", the economy is in the toilet hurting program's money making abilities, stronger communication through the internet, rising awareness about what programs really are, the hope of Democratic powers where there were once corrupt Republicans supporting programs and many people around the country becoming active in the fight to get these programs shut down. There are also many good things happening in the courts and investigations behind the scenes that I am not at liberty to discuss here at this time.
Due to what I have listed above and more, I see big opportunity in the next few years against the troubled teen industry. I have only been at this for about a year but I see things clearly and my biggest hope is that more and more survivors and parents will come forward and make their voices be heard by protesting and putting pressure on lawmakers and the government, in addition to lawsuits and criminal charges being filed.
Believing we can shut down programs will not accomplish this feat alone, but I think this has to be the first step. I firmly believe it will happen.
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Right now, Monica and Dana get kids treated from the inside the Milford building. IT IS NOT DEAD!!! Wdtony, you should check the facts that are real and not some idea you conjured up. You call that place KHK, it's called PFC. KHK was a name they dropped months ago. You don't see activity? Good, so MOST of the program is not there at this time, but there are people STILL in there, getting kids as clients. Parents come with their kids to get them evaluated, one step from group. That is NOT closed, gone, dead by ANY means. Stop posting BULLSHIT rumors while simultaneously trying to act like you are some industry expert. So far, all they've done was to move the kids to Indiana. They've left the light on in Ohio. What appeared at first to be a significant victory for our side has turned into a fucking nightmare. Regroup? A good idea, but that's an understatement.
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Right now, Monica and Dana get kids treated from the inside the Milford building. IT IS NOT DEAD!!! Wdtony, you should check the facts that are real and not some idea you conjured up. You call that place KHK, it's called PFC. KHK was a name they dropped months ago. You don't see activity? Good, so MOST of the program is not there at this time, but there are people STILL in there, getting kids as clients. Parents come with their kids to get them evaluated, one step from group. That is NOT closed, gone, dead by ANY means. Stop posting BULLSHIT rumors while simultaneously trying to act like you are some industry expert. So far, all they've done was to move the kids to Indiana. They've left the light on in Ohio. What appeared at first to be a significant victory for our side has turned into a fucking nightmare. Regroup? A good idea, but that's an understatement.
I know a little more about Monica and Dana than you think. For someone who asks me to get my facts straight, you sure seem to be doing a lot of assuming about what is happening in the old KHK/STRAIGHT building.
Instead of attacking me, why don't you write some ideas here on how you think we can shut down PFC and then follow through with a plan.
This is a big step, and not a nightmare unless you are with a program. It is a nightmare for them.
You can bark orders at me all that you want. But you are disrespectful and a little narrow-minded, so you'll excuse me if I don't respond in a way that pleases you, whoever you are.
I like this game of bitching back and forth on Fornits. It took me a while to figure out how to play but it really does get your mind off of the real world for a while. Cool.
KHK is dead :poison:
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Right now, Monica and Dana get kids treated from the inside the Milford building. IT IS NOT DEAD!!! Wdtony, you should check the facts that are real and not some idea you conjured up. You call that place KHK, it's called PFC. KHK was a name they dropped months ago. You don't see activity? Good, so MOST of the program is not there at this time, but there are people STILL in there, getting kids as clients. Parents come with their kids to get them evaluated, one step from group. That is NOT closed, gone, dead by ANY means. Stop posting BULLSHIT rumors while simultaneously trying to act like you are some industry expert. So far, all they've done was to move the kids to Indiana. They've left the light on in Ohio. What appeared at first to be a significant victory for our side has turned into a fucking nightmare. Regroup? A good idea, but that's an understatement.
I know a little more about Monica and Dana than you think. For someone who asks me to get my facts straight, you sure seem to be doing a lot of assuming about what is happening in the old KHK/STRAIGHT building.
Instead of attacking me, why don't you write some ideas here on how you think we can shut down PFC and then follow through with a plan.
This is a big step, and not a nightmare unless you are with a program. It is a nightmare for them.
You can bark orders at me all that you want. But you are disrespectful and a little narrow-minded, so you'll excuse me if I don't respond in a way that pleases you, whoever you are.
I like this game of bitching back and forth on Fornits. It took me a while to figure out how to play but it really does get your mind off of the real world for a while. Cool.
KHK is dead :poison:
Hey Tony,
Just thought I would let ye know that "disowned" may not be who ye are thinking it is. It surely is not me. I already said what I had to say to you, and I am done because I already said it.
-DP
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I'm goin' down to Pathway
Gonna have myself a time
Friendly faces everywhere
Humble folks without temptation
Goin' down to Pathway
Gonna leave my woes behind
Ample parking day or night
People shouting "Howdy, neighbor!"
Heading on up to Pathway
Gonna see if I can't unwind
I like girls with big fat titties, I like girls with big vaginas
Come on down to Pathway and meet some friends of mine
:rocker: :jamin: :rofl: :rasta: .....Gotta love Primus, they rock!
Very very funny- Frod
-DP
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Well Mr WDTony,
When publicly announcing news or updates or situations involving pfc or any other program or situation, I make every attempt I can to stick with the facts. But, from time to time and being human, impatient and anally retentive, I am prone to mistakes. I am also able to make corrections if it is going to help resolve issues and protect others. This dead program bullshit is a very sensitive issue since the program is NOT gone in Ohio but you're tellin people on and off the board that it is. Sorry man, but that's the facts. I thought we could work together, but it is appearing to be not the case. As far as this bullshit bitchinshit goes, I didn't even start it and it's like who can you work with anymore? Nobody? Only people you can impress or fool? Come on dude, this is insane. I told you in that last email I sent yesterday that survivors just can't work together for any measurable length of time without shit like this or something similar happening. That's not disrespectful, that's a fact. I challenge any survivor out there to prove me wrong on that... btw. Hit me with your best shot... I don't like it any more than anyone else. Survivors know better than anyone else what goes on inside these places. DON'T TELL ME WHAT TO DO!!! LOL... I mean, how many times have I and other people said or thought that? Jeezoweezo. Backbiting, name calling, hiding shit, whatever... It's probably a big reason people don't get together more than they do, or join organizations or contribute money to these causes. I mean, there's no law that requires them to, and this is still America so if that's the way it is, then deal with it. If you try to take over someone else's work and twist it around to suit your agenda, you can expect to have people getting pissed off and wham, here we are now. They slipped out the kids but they still get the business. Face it, these people trained us well. The new guy always gets the shit the worst, LOL. It's par for the course as far as I am concerned. How can you tell me something else if I've already personally experienced it differently? How willing do you expect me to be to accept your naivety or lack of experience in this line of work? At what point should I step in and point out something is wrong and how are you going to take it? I'd say you take it really bad. Efforts by many folks are already years into this and some of what you are doing is making it look like we are starting over from scratch. But we're disrespecting you? Get real. Everyone who gives a shit about this cause has to realize this... or at least suspect it. If not, then they really don't care and that's fine too, btw.
To everyone...
Please, if anyone sees how things should, could be different, please let me know...
My suggestion in that email to WDTony was that we should set up something like a "The PFC Commission" that would focus on this program in a 100% transparent way for everyone involved first-hand, including having some rules and guidelines regarding its operations. It would not be sponsored by any particular organization, but information retained by organizations could be used to help its efforts. I have yet to hear a response. How the hell else can anything be accomplished in the shortest period of time where everyone stays friends or together on this issue? Statements from survivors, documents, facts, studies, findings, reports, etc. These are what count in court. That reminds me, I have been unsuccessfully sued by Bob Lichfield and Thayer Learning Center, threatened several other times by program leaders, lawyers, etc... I like to think that I know what I am talking about and I would appreciate it if people would just relax and work together. I never claimed to be perfect or have ALL the answers. Terri Nissley's breath really didn't stink, and I see that Monica stuck around Milford, I apologize if I offended them... :rofl:
jumpin off the :soapbox: now...
My name is William, btw, I have a habit of posting as several non-repeating screen names here at Fornits. I enjoy that as it too helps distract me from reality, LOL Thank you Fornits folks :cheers:
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My point, Tony, is that other programs have said that they were closed. They have fooled officials in their states into believing they were 'closed' when they were not. They are liars, and they are good at it. AND A program ain't 'dead' until the money dries up.
If we are not diligent and just walk away from Kids Helping Kids/Pathway Family Centers and in two months it's filled up again with no protesters and no one following up more children WILL SUFFER. I wouldn't want to bear that burden.
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I'd tend to lean towards Hurricayne on this. An eye should definately be kept on the Cincinatti branch to make sure they're not just "playing dead".
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I'd tend to lean towards Hurricayne on this. An eye should definately be kept on the Cincinatti branch to make sure they're not just "playing dead".
I do plan to keep an eye on the Cincinnati branch, except I don't have a car, so I'm gonna have to bike it.
There's been several bad programs around Cincinnati over the years, and as long as I'm still alive, I'm determined to keep an eye on them.
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I'd tend to lean towards Hurricayne on this. An eye should definately be kept on the Cincinatti branch to make sure they're not just "playing dead".
I do plan to keep an eye on the Cincinnati branch, except I don't have a car, so I'm gonna have to bike it.
There's been several bad programs around Cincinnati over the years, and as long as I'm still alive, I'm determined to keep an eye on them.
I do know that about you, definitely.
BTW, ye are not stranded......I do not know if this message ever got relayed to you or not but a long time ago I did tell Tony, that if you and the other one,(whose real name I will not mention here) needs a ride to protest that I would be willing to come pick you both up if ye do not have a ride. So, please keep that in mind.
sincerely,
-DP
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William.. sweet prince.. prince of ISAC.. or something like that.
epic..
I'm mad.. I can't sig your whole post.
Can you boil the good stuff down to under 500 words?
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I told you in that last email I sent yesterday that survivors just can't work together for any measurable length of time without shit like this or something similar happening. That's not disrespectful, that's a fact. I challenge any survivor out there to prove me wrong on that... btw. Hit me with your best shot... I don't like it any more than anyone else.
Survivors know better than anyone else what goes on inside these places. DON'T TELL ME WHAT TO DO!!! LOL... I mean, how many times have I and other people said or thought that? Jeezoweezo. Backbiting, name calling, hiding shit, whatever... It's probably a big reason people don't get together more than they do, or join organizations or contribute money to these causes. I mean, there's no law that requires them to, and this is still America so if that's the way it is, then deal with it. Face it, these people trained us well. The new guy always gets the shit the worst. It's par for the course as far as I am concerned. How can you tell me something else if I've already personally experienced it differently? How willing do you expect me to be to accept your naivety or lack of experience in this line of work? At what point should I step in and point out something is wrong and how are you going to take it? I'd say you take it really bad. Efforts by many folks are already years into this and some of what you are doing is making it look like we are starting over from scratch. But we're disrespecting you? Get real. Everyone who gives a shit about this cause has to realize this... or at least suspect it.
To everyone...
Please, if anyone sees how things should, could be different, please let me know...
My suggestion in that email to WDTony was that we should set up something like a "The PFC Commission" that would focus on this program in a 100% transparent way for everyone involved first-hand, including having some rules and guidelines regarding its operations. It would not be sponsored by any particular organization, but information retained by organizations could be used to help its efforts. I have yet to hear a response. How the hell else can anything be accomplished in the shortest period of time where everyone stays friends or together on this issue? Statements from survivors, documents, facts, studies, findings, reports, etc. These are what count in court. That reminds me, I have been unsuccessfully sued by Bob Lichfield and Thayer Learning Center, threatened several other times by program leaders, lawyers, etc... I like to think that I know what I am talking about and I would appreciate it if people would just relax and work together. I never claimed to be perfect or have ALL the answers. Terri Nissley's breath really didn't stink, and I see that Monica stuck around Milford, I apologize if I offended them.
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Did I just get confronted by the group? Wow, flashback.
I know some of you are a little pissed at me right now. Would it be alright if we stopped playing for a while here?
Anyway, I agree with DP and Psy, I guess it would be best to end this. It has been fun defending myself but I have a lot to do.
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This has nothing to do with juxtaposing group. That sounds like one of those "nice try" deals, but whatever... run along... don't be late. CU in Indy...
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Did I just get confronted by the group? Wow, flashback.
I know some of you are a little pissed at me right now. Would it be alright if we stopped playing for a while here?
Anyway, I agree with DP and Psy, I guess it would be best to end this. It has been fun defending myself but I have a lot to do.
Excuse me?
Look cheesedick.. You can't defend yourself anymore at this point. What you ought to do is stick your head between your ass and prepare to kiss it good bye. William and his missus have far greater cred than you'll ever have at this juncture.
You know why?
Because they've been rolling PFC and their kind for years while you have been jumping in front of tv cameras to be a glory hound.
Now slap me silly and and call me stupid but anyone who has the best interests of survivors in mind doesn't hide information from the people he is protesting with.
Further, paint my nuts with turpentine and call me catholic if it is in the best interests of kids in programs if you are running around spewing out nonsense that you have no absolute clue about.
Last, bend over and kiss my ass if you can't seem to figure out that this isn't a group of people confronting your pussy ass. What it happens to be is a collection of pissed off people who care about survivors, kids, and who want to stop PFC from hurting more people. This collection of people aren't confronting you..
THEY ARE CLEARING UP YOUR FALSEHOODS AND BULLSHIT.
Now run along and show some respect to your elders sonny before I really start "dropping dirt" on what you've been up to you parasitic little bastard.
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I wasn't talking to you gookin.
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Is there a breach in confidence or trust (i.e. is somebody referring to a program or something like that)? Otherwise, can we carry on. If this is just personal differences, what's the point of continuing the argument. People have character flaws, all of us, but so far as I can tell, we're on the same side here. Can people just "bite the bullet" here and work with those they might not particularly like that much on a personal level? Just think of the consequences of inaction, and the strength in numbers.
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Psy: I think this is just personal differences and began as an overblown misunderstanding. I don't believe that anyone (with the exception of the gook) is working for the industry or against what we are doing against programs.
I am usually all for working together but because of the extent of mistrust and lack of communication with this particular situation, I don't think it's going to happen. I appreciate your desire for diplomacy but sometimes this route is futile.
Carrying on is a good idea. I have no intention of stopping the fight against programs, maybe I'll never stop. I am more than happy to work with anyone who is mature and knows how to work with others reasonably. I think some people may be more of a liability than an asset so it can be difficult to assess who to work with sometimes. I am learning this.
From now on, I think I will just post news articles here and stay away from the public forum game. I did acquire some of the responses I was hoping for so it wasn't a total wash. It is very difficult to communicate when you have to guess who you are talking to. Private messages are ok.
Ok, I'm out.
Tony
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Is there a breach in confidence or trust (i.e. is somebody referring to a program or something like that)? Otherwise, can we carry on. If this is just personal differences, what's the point of continuing the argument. People have character flaws, all of us, but so far as I can tell, we're on the same side here. Can people just "bite the bullet" here and work with those they might not particularly like that much on a personal level? Just think of the consequences of inaction, and the strength in numbers.
I would agree. I went to 15 protests, and I found all of the participants to be rather pleasant individuals. It would be a shame if some disagreement holds us back from accomplishing anything else.
For my part, I'm still going to try to keep an eye on stuff and expose the industry.
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I'd like to attend a protest sometime. :nods: :clown: :bs: ::evil:: :jamin: :soapbox: :rasta:
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The Chinese character Ku represents a bowl in whose contents worms are breeding. This means decay. It is come about because the gentle indifference in the lower trigram has come together with the rigid inertia of the upper, and the result is stagnation. Since this implies guilt, the conditions embody a demand for removal of the cause. Hence the meaning of the hexagram is not simply "what has been spoiled" but "work on what has been spoiled."
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The text of this hexagram resembles that of Tsui, GATHERING TOGETHER (45). In the latter, the subject is the bringing together of elements that have been separated, as water collects in lakes on the earth. Here the subject is the dispersing and dissolving of divisive egotism. DISPERSION shows the way, so to speak, that leads to gathering together. This explains the similarity of the two texts.
Religious forces are needed to overcome the egotism that divides men. The common celebration of the great sacrificial feasts and sacred rites, which gave expression simultaneously to the interrelation and social articulation of the family and state, was the means of employed by the great ruler to unite men. The sacred music and the splendour of the ceremonies aroused a strong tide of emotion that was shared by all hearts in unison, and that awakened a consciousness of the common origin of all creatures. In this way disunity was overcome and rigidity dissolved. A further means to the same end is co-operation in great general undertakings that set a high goal for the will of the people; in the common concentration on this goal, all barriers dissolve, just as, when a boat is crossing a great stream, all hands must unite in a joint task.
But only a man who's himself free of all selfish ulterior considerations, and who perseveres in justice and steadfastness, is capable of so dissolving the hardness of egotism.