Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => CEDU / Brown Schools and derivatives / clones => Topic started by: Anonymous on October 21, 2008, 11:56:24 PM
-
I've gotten two responses, people who seem to know each other, from 95-96, who are particularly starry-eyed, quite positive about the experience. One admits the raps, 'bands' (bans), propheets, and aparently all other agreements stood, but claims to still 'thank her parents for sending her there.' The other, from a male, seems to admit nothing of the details.
I have interviewed Cedu people through the mid-90s, but no one from 95 or 96. I have heard from late 90s Cedu, and Mt. Bachelor people, who describe the place as identical to highly similar to the early 90s.
Was there some period of lighter rule in 95? Was R. Bentz gone at that moment? Or, is this a case of two people who were, dispositionally, 'good fits' for Chinese communist cult-brain-washing techniques?
The woman who wrote me talked about 'all the love in the room', a phrase used regularly after a bloody, intestine-shearing, intellect-battering rap, or soul-destroying propheet.
Am I now encountering the true believers?
I want to ask these folks if they too were made to smush with Steve L? Carl Janowitz? Rudy Bentz? Guy Bonano? Was that part of the 'love in the room?' (Not for me, thanks!)
I am moving into more reading of the history of these programs, to see if roots can be found and tracked. Will be updating the blog with more soon.
regards,
LS
http://liamscheff.com/daily/cedu-documentary/ (http://liamscheff.com/daily/cedu-documentary/)
-
With a large enough sample size you're going to encounter the entire spectrum. They sound like the 'true believer' type.
After looking through classmates.com I noticed that two peers who were good friends back then have 'cats' listed as their favorite hobby/interest. 1 is a guy. Assuming it's not some sort of inside joke between these two class mates I find this to be almost more disturbing than programmies.
Looking forward to more of your work Liam.
-
Yes Liam, I was there at that exact time. I would know whoever you talked to. It does not surprise me to hear that there are still avid supporters from my era, but that would not change the history and tactics from my perspective, just reinforce my belief that they refined their skill over time. Rudy Bentz, Carl Janowitz were not there. The other staff you mentioned were. I'm happy to discuss it with you, contact me.
-
Hi, Thanks, will do this week/end,
Some interesting notes from 'the Straights' pages on the web, and some 'brainwashing' definition sites.
This excerpt, from the Straights pages (http://www.thestraights.com/theprogram/theprogram.htm (http://www.thestraights.com/theprogram/theprogram.htm)), tells the story of forced confessions. True, false, either way, forced, and made in front of dozens or hundreds.
This is the familiar scene for the pre-rap 'lug' show, and the rap itself:
"Destructively, the confessions were often read aloud in the peer Group of 200 other boys and girls--stripping many kids of their feelings of worth as a man or woman, and perhaps driving many to suicidal thoughts and attempts--as we shall see momentarily. Many Straight clients have no drug problem at all. Many clients are forced or cajoled into admitting drug usage they had never done.
So state so many of the people who've sat for interview. And then, many forced confessions were true events, and intensely, irreperably violating for being coerced, publicly.
What are these strange programs, and where do they come from? Forcing confession is as old as humanity, in wartime, in breaking an enemy. How did it get into the 60/70's counter-culture, as a 'self-help' tool, for these crazed, abysmal heroin-addicts? The author of the 'straights' pieces likens it to communist-era, Chinese/Maoist programming.
And the following points - all that 'dirt' (their absurd word), and nothing done - people telling the most horrible, morose, bloody, wretched stories of personal abuse by adults, babysitters, even parents - and not a thing, not a damned thing done about it - except more exploitation:
There are reports that Straight has failed to report incidences of incest in families as required by state laws. Alleged reports of incest may be prove to be true or false. Why has Straight been slow to report allegations of incest? In other words why would Straight want to keep data on children who have allegedly had sex with a parent but not tell state officials? The program has the sexual confessions, the parents continue to pay money. What would you tell your mom knowing someone had some embarrassing data about you? What would you tell a district attorney?
And then the 'whos' and 'whats'. Affluent white kids! Amazing. This being the consistent target group for American cults, regarding both Cedu, the Straights - and others?
And what is the Chinese/Mao connection? Reading? Fashion? 60's counter-culture Bullshit?
Since Straight specialized in admitting affluent white kids, many of the kids' parents have high-level security clearances. Have the written confessions been safe-guarded? Are parents of kids who have signed Straight confessions security risks? Could an unscrupulous Straight official sell the confessions of the child a high-level government worker to a Communist Chinese intelligence officer? "
-
I've invited a couple people who posted what I'll call "happy Cedu" memories at my blog, to come here and get into some of the details. They have not yet shown up, but I hope they will. I emailed both personally and asked them over to the fornits free-for-all.
So, Darren, and Jacki, 95-97 Cedu inmates, and defenders of the program - please, have your say. I have many questions for you, better suited for this space then my blog, though I will keep the conversation linked, and updated.
Thank you!
Liam
-
CEDU was what it was. It was neither a bad experience, nor a good one... but a place for people that had real problems, to come to and find a better, and a more meaningful life. I attended all 3 of the CEDU schools from 93-96. RMA, Hilltop, and CEDU. From my experience, CEDU gave me beneficial tools to turn my life around after hitting the gutter and losing myself a few years ago. The fact that you probably never even attended the school, but are just trying to make a profit on other people's misfortunes in their life, just shows the charactor to which you truelly are. If you have a problem with anything I just said, you can always come down to Fort Bragg, NC and talk with me about before I deploy early next year for the Middle East to protect the freedoms of the free speech that you use so carelessly.
-
Nashari
According to your user profile you've been on fornits for several years. That said you've probably seen at least a few of my anti-program posts. I say this right out of the gate to let you know my intent isn't to engage in the usual mindless fornits flame war.
I don't have a problem with anything you said. I'm interested in understanding everyone's opinion of the place.
I'm curious about a few things you said in your post:
1. The fact that you probably never even attended the school, but are just trying to make a profit on other people's misfortunes in their life, just shows the charactor to which you truelly are.
I don't understand who you are speaking to when you say this. Would you mind clarifying?
2. What circumstances led to you attending all 3 schools?
You have my complete respect and gratitude for your military service. I have several friends and family members in active duty. My gratitude to those in active duty isn't generated from the fact my friends and family are in harm's way. I mention their relation to me to point out that fact that I'm getting the real story about our 'war on terror' from reliable sources.
-
The word from emails received is that Bill Valentine took over after 94 or 95, raps were reduced to twice weekly, meds were distributed, and perhaps there was a shift in the SHQ (Sadism and Humiliation Quotient).
Who can verify, add, subtract, or otherwise illuminate the Cedu 95, Bill Valentine-era experience?
There were still Propheets, Raps, Disclosures, Fulltimes, Smushing, 'Story-telling', etc, until the end - that's not in dispute. I have spoken with three ex-staff, two critical of the program, one highly complimentary of the program, and the planks of the show remained the same throughout.
But, what were some of the differences? I interviewed, earlier in the project, someone who was there, I believe, till 94 or 95, but it sounded exactly precisely the same as 88.
Anyone from the mid-90s? Write back here, or at my research blog:
http://liamscheff.com/daily/cedu-documentary/ (http://liamscheff.com/daily/cedu-documentary/)
And since the question seems to be begged, a few posts above, Yes, I was a prisoner of Cedu from 88 to 90. That's well known, and many have been interviewed already who know me and the project. There is even video public and available, for the sake of making known the hidden history, the details of the program, to people going through it at present, or who are dealing with the pain of the past.
No, this project has cost money, not earned, though I'm not complaining, and am grateful, for personal reasons, for the opportunity to do the work. I also have no bias against capitalism, and if this project ever does become lucrative, it would only increase the possibility that more people could tell their stories in book, tv, film form.
And no one has to fight for my right to free speech. When it comes down to it, I'll fight for that myself.
-
I have been on this site for a long time, but if you see the drought between my posts you can see that I was indisposed for awhile. Valentine was the headmaster when i got to CEDU in 95, and the reason I got to spend time at so many of the schools, was because I never reformed to the ideals that they tried to teach.
-
ohhhhh
Your comment about not attending and making a profit was directed at Liam...
-
I have been on this site for a long time, but if you see the drought between my posts you can see that I was indisposed for awhile. Valentine was the headmaster when i got to CEDU in 95, and the reason I got to spend time at so many of the schools, was because I never reformed to the ideals that they tried to teach.
There is a chance I may know you. We probably only crossed paths briefly. Did you also go thru Ascent? (NWA was Cedu right?, wasn't it really close to RMA?). I remember Bill Valentine, but he barely showed his face. I remember him in one rap, but basically non-existent. Just curious, right bfore I "graduated" Ascent they pressured me to go to RMA. They were telling me they had bbq's and it seemed like they were enticing me to choose it, but I said I wanted to go back tto CEDU RS cuz my friends were there. I think Ascent was pretty new when I went there , started in94' I think, but haven't heard much on it. Were u a Cedu RS grad?
-
That's comical.
They were 'selling' the new fringe schools to the recently wilderness centrifuged students in order to ramp up attendace #'s.
BBQ's my ass.
-
ascent, was actually privately owned before i started at RMA, and I actually went to SUWS, which i think was a much more beneficial program than ascent ever could have been. I was at CEDU for 95 and graduated in june of 96... so it is quite possible that you may have known me.
-
CEDU was what it was. It was neither a bad experience, nor a good one... but a place for people that had real problems, to come to and find a better, and a more meaningful life. I attended all 3 of the CEDU schools from 93-96. RMA, Hilltop, and CEDU. From my experience, CEDU gave me beneficial tools to turn my life around after hitting the gutter and losing myself a few years ago. The fact that you probably never even attended the school, but are just trying to make a profit on other people's misfortunes in their life, just shows the charactor to which you truelly are. If you have a problem with anything I just said, you can always come down to Fort Bragg, NC and talk with me about before I deploy early next year for the Middle East to protect the freedoms of the free speech that you use so carelessly.
Hey nashari,
I gotta say, I have no doubt you got a triple dose of brain washing smack down being at 3 Cedu sister schools!
Glad you got some positive experience out of it. Personally, it was kind of a wash for me. I got some good friends out of it, but wasted a valuable 2 years getting mindfucked. I was there with Liam, he did indeed attend Cedu in one of its most brutal periods. Also, since I'm an Army vet with Combat zone experience, and apparently, we get to choose whose freedoms we fight for - I choose to fight for Liam and his right to say whatever he so chooses. cool. thanks. Be safe. Remember you're over there to watch your buddies back and not so you can defend someone's political agenda.
-
CEDU was what it was. It was neither a bad experience, nor a good one... but a place for people that had real problems, to come to and find a better, and a more meaningful life. I attended all 3 of the CEDU schools from 93-96. RMA, Hilltop, and CEDU. From my experience, CEDU gave me beneficial tools to turn my life around after hitting the gutter and losing myself a few years ago. The fact that you probably never even attended the school, but are just trying to make a profit on other people's misfortunes in their life, just shows the charactor to which you truelly are. If you have a problem with anything I just said, you can always come down to Fort Bragg, NC and talk with me about before I deploy early next year for the Middle East to protect the freedoms of the free speech that you use so carelessly.
Hey nashari,
I gotta say, I have no doubt you got a triple dose of brain washing smack down being at 3 Cedu sister schools!
Glad you got some positive experience out of it. Personally, it was kind of a wash for me. I got some good friends out of it, but wasted a valuable 2 years getting mindfucked. I was there with Liam, he did indeed attend Cedu in one of its most brutal periods. Also, since I'm an Army vet with Combat zone experience, and apparently, we get to choose whose freedoms we fight for - I choose to fight for Liam and his right to say whatever he so chooses. cool. thanks. Be safe. Remember you're over there to watch your buddies back and not so you can defend someone's political agenda.
Very well said. Never ceases to amaze me how those that brag about "protecting freedom of speech" get so ticked off and self-righteous when one uses that freedom to express a dissenting opinion.
-
With a large enough sample size you're going to encounter the entire spectrum. They sound like the 'true believer' type.
After looking through classmates.com I noticed that two peers who were good friends back then have 'cats' listed as their favorite hobby/interest. 1 is a guy. Assuming it's not some sort of inside joke between these two class mates I find this to be almost more disturbing than programmies.
Looking forward to more of your work Liam.
Hey, Mr. Ailurophobe, I have cats listed as an interest on my classmates.com profile, too. Be careful or I'll mail you the girls' litterbox leavings.
Sincerely,
Mr. Cat Daddy
P.S. Niku says you're a faggoty whore (unless you apologize by smooshing her kitty face), and the diva Pie says nothing, because she doesn't give a fuck.
nyaou, (http://http://wholenotherthing.com/Images/fluffy_tushie2.jpg) bitch. :P
-
CEDU was what it was. It was neither a bad experience, nor a good one... but a place for people that had real problems, to come to and find a better, and a more meaningful life. I attended all 3 of the CEDU schools from 93-96. RMA, Hilltop, and CEDU. From my experience, CEDU gave me beneficial tools to turn my life around after hitting the gutter and losing myself a few years ago. The fact that you probably never even attended the school, but are just trying to make a profit on other people's misfortunes in their life, just shows the charactor to which you truelly are. If you have a problem with anything I just said, you can always come down to Fort Bragg, NC and talk with me about before I deploy early next year for the Middle East to protect the freedoms of the free speech that you use so carelessly.
Hey nashari,
I gotta say, I have no doubt you got a triple dose of brain washing smack down being at 3 Cedu sister schools!
Glad you got some positive experience out of it. Personally, it was kind of a wash for me. I got some good friends out of it, but wasted a valuable 2 years getting mindfucked. I was there with Liam, he did indeed attend Cedu in one of its most brutal periods. Also, since I'm an Army vet with Combat zone experience, and apparently, we get to choose whose freedoms we fight for - I choose to fight for Liam and his right to say whatever he so chooses. cool. thanks. Be safe. Remember you're over there to watch your buddies back and not so you can defend someone's political agenda.
Very well said. Never ceases to amaze me how those that brag about "protecting freedom of speech" get so ticked off and self-righteous when one uses that freedom to express a dissenting opinion.
Triple dose? :sue: I got kicked out of RMA and was part of the class that shut down Hill Top. I am sorry if your experiences in the 80's were not anything but mindfucking. That is really sad to hear, since being a Vet, you should know that the situations you find youself in is up to you to how you handle them and the outcome. You act like this is a fight, when there has been nothing but opinions stated here... so if you want to fight... pick up a rifle, get back to training and head back to the desert.
AIRBORNE.
-
TAC
Truce - I'm still dealing with the 3 pallets of gorilla shit that were fedexed to me last week.
http://www.shitsenders.com/order/ (http://www.shitsenders.com/order/)
-
CEDU was what it was. It was neither a bad experience, nor a good one... but a place for people that had real problems, to come to and find a better, and a more meaningful life. I attended all 3 of the CEDU schools from 93-96. RMA, Hilltop, and CEDU. From my experience, CEDU gave me beneficial tools to turn my life around after hitting the gutter and losing myself a few years ago. The fact that you probably never even attended the school, but are just trying to make a profit on other people's misfortunes in their life, just shows the charactor to which you truelly are. If you have a problem with anything I just said, you can always come down to Fort Bragg, NC and talk with me about before I deploy early next year for the Middle East to protect the freedoms of the free speech that you use so carelessly.
I have been on this site for a long time, but if you see the drought between my posts you can see that I was indisposed for awhile. Valentine was the headmaster when i got to CEDU in 95, and the reason I got to spend time at so many of the schools, was because I never reformed to the ideals that they tried to teach.
? So you got beneficial tools from Cedu but you never reformed to their ideals? What does that mean exactly? What about their tools was so helpful? Looking back I see those tools as being taught for the purpose of encouraging the habitual defamation of ones' self and others. Starting with the truth it was taught that an indicator of mental and emotional health was how deeply and erratically we were experiencing our emotions. From a traditional psychological/therapeutic perspective that would be the complete antithesis of mental and emotional health. It seems obvious to me that running your anger and your judgements is not an act of cleansing at all, just the opposite. It was an act of self destruction, and I think that is why they taught us to believe them.
-
Nashari, you mentioned beneficial tools. What specific tools were beneficial? I'm serious. Because every person I've asked has never been able to specify the tools applicable to an emotionally healthy life. In fact, no one has ever posited a single tool at all. They just say, they have "tools." Of course, at CEDU, every day was Hammer Time.
I certainly know that the communication techniques I learned at CEDU would deep six any chance of healthy relationships. I can't say that it got me in touch with myself as the entire program depends on obfuscating the truth and changing your story to meet exploitative purposes. I couldn't "get real" because they re-wrote my history... I couldn't achieve the goals in the propheets because they weren't mine.... mine were beaten to pulp to fit the presiding Facilitator's schema. In fact,the truth was a lie, the children belonged to somebody else, the brother's keeper was a rat, the dream was anyone's - but not mine. And so on and so forth.
So, what tools did I learn? Nothing emotionally practical.
How about you?
-
Please see the post on the Synanon program that really is the Cedu program -
http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic. ... 61#p318031 (http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=26061#p318031)
Some Cedu tools: Leveling wild, derrogatory accusations without evidence, disappearing behind veils of self-righteous hostility, and then, of course, the all-exculpating penance of emotional purging.
Synanon too. Go figure. Two programs for the price of your youth.
-
I learned a lot of tools at RMA.
1. Polaski
2. Axe
3. Sledge and Wedge
4. Mall
5. Two man saw
6. Bark Peeler
7. Post hole digger
8. Hatchet
Although I can't rightly say I use any of them now. San Francisco doesn't have a big need for forestry skills.
protect the freedoms of the free speech that you use so carelessly.
How does one use free speech carelessly? They forgot to leave the safety on? They run around the room with it unsheathed? They don't use a surge protector? Free speech means you can speak freely, i.e. say what is on your mind. I think the only way you can be careless with it is to do the proverbial yelling "fire" in a theater.
Nashari, I think you mean "take for granted." You may speak *freely*, but I think you need some assistance when it comes to speaking *well* and using accurate turns of phrase. But maybe that's just this language nazi's opinion.
Did we have free speech at CEDU? I'll have to think about that for one thousandth of a second.
As a CEDU bastard, I am thankful every motherfucking day for the right to speak my mind, and I think I can also speak for the rest of us in here that we know what it's like not to be able to do that. Definitely not as horrific as one of the way-too-many muslim outhouses leaving their ass-stains all over the middle east, but we've had our share.
Anyway, stay frosty in the rancid, shithole litterbox that is Iraq. I spoke with an ex-marine who got back from there a while ago and he said it was the biggest mistake of his life, and showed us some pretty fucking horrific slides to back that up. Hopefully all of you folks will be coming back soon.
War is hell.
-
while we're on the military note...
"pick up a rifle and head for the desert"....this 'war on terror' is a joke.
If I had my druthers, I'd role the dice and try to carpet bomb the shit out of them all at once but we can't... so we're just sending our 19 year olds into their jihadist meat grinder.
I&Me workshop - lifeboat theory - Malthus...
there's only room for 7 on the raft - the rest have to perish? yes they do. It's you or them.
-
TAC
4. Maul not mall.....stay with the group please.
There's an old growth forest on the underside of the Golden Gate Bridge that needs some trimmin.
-
Seven?? Your peer group must have been HUGE!
Ours was pretty sizeable. (25) and we had four. Oh lord did the "you live, you die" voting escapade take forever. My legs were numb by the end of that, and I almost fell over from exhaustion. Oh noz, I'm going to drown in... the carpet in Walden. Stupid boat.
I always refer to that as the titanic exercise, since that ship didn't have enough lifeboats for everyone, either. First class gets priority, everyone else... it's every man for himself.
TAC
4. Maul not mall.....stay with the group please.
There's an old growth forest on the underside of the Golden Gate Bridge that needs some trimmin.
Actually, it can be spelled either way.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maul (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maul)
I like to spell it mall, because it defies the pun.
Oh.. and the lifeboat exercise was the summit workshop.
-
Summit ?
really?
fuck i hated those workshops.
-
Triple dose? :sue: I got kicked out of RMA and was part of the class that shut down Hill Top. I am sorry if your experiences in the 80's were not anything but mindfucking. That is really sad to hear, since being a Vet, you should know that the situations you find youself in is up to you to how you handle them and the outcome. You act like this is a fight, when there has been nothing but opinions stated here... so if you want to fight... pick up a rifle, get back to training and head back to the desert.
AIRBORNE.
hey. Nashari, I get it. You're amped up on adrenaline. All Huuah! and gung-ho and ready to rock and roll. No, I don't want to fight you. That's not the point at all.
I think maybe I, and echoing everyone else on here - are very worried for you. The fact is, being a vet, I realize that the choices were NOT totally up to me and how I handled them as much as the fact of being a tool (speaking of useful tools) of some shitbags in Washington. To a degree, yes, you watch your buddies back and they watch yours. But you know what? When your numbers up, its up. A random IED or RPG and click, that's it. You have more of a chance over there of that happening then sitting cozily here. Why be over there due to someone else's half-baked agenda when you COULD be sitting cozy back here? Duty? I understand that. You did sign the papers, you're in for the long haul. Just don't have any illusions about how far your duty and loyalty lie. Be there for your buddies and not for some criminal leaders.
Speaking of criminal leaders, apparently most of them left before you got to Cedu. So explainath your milquetoast experience. You had several chances (1. RMA, 2. Hill Top, 3. Cedu ) to realize that something was very wrong, but apparently that didn't click then and it won't now. Or, sticking by my earlier statements, the brainwashing hasn't worn off.
Again, be safe.
-
http://liamscheff.files.wordpress.com/2 ... -sched.jpg (http://liamscheff.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/img_2260summit-sched.jpg)
http://liamscheff.files.wordpress.com/2 ... g_2187.jpg (http://liamscheff.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/img_2187.jpg)
http://liamscheff.files.wordpress.com/2 ... g_2188.jpg (http://liamscheff.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/img_2188.jpg)
from Liam's blog:
http://liamscheff.com/daily/2008/06/20/ ... t-scripts/ (http://liamscheff.com/daily/2008/06/20/cedu-documentary-i-and-me-and-summit-scripts/)
Whoever wants to write up the text from all of these and post it, gets a big giant thank you.
-
From one cult 2 another :soapbox: