Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Straight, Inc. and Derivatives => Topic started by: Anonymous on July 29, 2003, 02:24:00 PM
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Hello everyone. I am a sister of Joel and Jackie's, and believe me I used to think that was NOTHING to be proud of.
I have enjoyed reading the information on this site and felt that I needed to send a little note of my own.
As some of you may or may not know, Joel is not involved with "The Program" anymore, and has not been for quite a few years. I am proud that he finally found the will and strength to leave and to start a normal life. I completely understand about some of the grudges that are being held against Joel, but as we all know, he fell victim to the Newton's as did many of you. Trust me, I have just as much resentment and disgust towards "The Program" as any of you, afterall it took away my brother AND sister from me! and transformed them into something that was unexplainable and downright embarrassing.
But....for anyone who still has a loved one involved with the Newton's.....I can tell you that there is hope. I always prayed that Joel would eventually come back to our family, and he has. He is a wonderful and loving brother and father....and I thank God that he is straight and alive!
Yes...I could hold grudges against him for the past...but where is that going to get me? Brotherless for another 10 years...NO THANKS!
It was not easy to forgive and forget all of the events that occurred BEFORE and AFTER his program days, but I did...and because of that..I have a brother whom I adore.
As for Jackie, all I can do is pray for my two nephews, whom I have never met before!
I sincerely wish all of you the best of luck...and may Dr.Fig Newton rot in his blue chair!!!
LOVE YA!
Claudia Messaros C******
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thank you for posting claudia. i can appreciate your what you had to say. i was in kids for a very long time so i know how it feels to be lost. how old are you? im just curious because i never knew about you. jackie and joel never talked about having a wonderful sister like your self :wave:
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Thank you for the positive contribution. This place, as was Kids, can be so perfidious.
Contrary to the comment by Anon.., Joel did indeed talk about you in Kids. I remember him being sincerely regretful and sorry for his treatment of you.
Peace.
ttfn
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Hey Claudia!
I hear a baby is on it's way... CONGRATULATIONS! I am so happy for you and I wish you the best.
Christy
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Thanks for the letter, I didn`t know you but I sure knew Joel. I hate to say it but he really helped me.I did see him "loose it" on people a few times when they acted up or out or whatever it was called,but I knew he cared about us. all the best to you and him! does any one know where Joel is or how to find him? I`d love to talk to him.
EMJ
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Do you have a nephew named "Miller" after Newton? I heard that Jackie married Drew Giganti and they have a son named after Newton.
--curious
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This is my first post. I usually just read cause I'm interested in how people are doing. I know some people here but not too many. I have wondered many times how Jackie was doing. I read some bad things about her here and I just wanted to let her sister know that she was my staff and oldcomer in California (when we had no oldcomers on the girls side) and she helped me so much. She was very kind and caring to me when alot of other people were not, even when I was a "nonworker" or whatever they called it. I will never forget her or the kindness she showed me during a very scary time in my life.
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Were you in KIDS of Southern California? could you email me at the email address found at http://www.kidsofsoutherncalifornia.com? (http://www.kidsofsoutherncalifornia.com?)?
:wave:
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I'm sorry but I could not find your email. To answer your question yes I was in kids of southern cali. also straight in California and in Dallas.
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Hi Claudia, You don,t know me but I am Kristi's little sister Lissa. I have also lost a sister do to the Newtons, and have not meet my little niece. I guess she is name after you. That is great. I often wonder should I write my sister just to see if she will write back or maybe be friends agian. I just wanted to know your not alone out there. If you would like my e-mail let me know. lissa
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Thank you, Claudia, for giving me the courage to write. I discovered this site two weeks ago and have felt like a voyeur reading some of the posts. Like Claudia (who I remember from Rivers Edge), I was a KIDS sibling. Unfortunately, as many of you know, my brother, Phil Winograd, died in 1996.
Although most of you probably don't remember me, I remember some of you and am glad to read that so many have overcome the obstacles that you faced as a result of the KIDS program.
I'd enjoy hearing from any of you who remember either my brother or me. Happy Holidays to all.
Allison Winograd G*******
albrygold@aol.com
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Hi Allison,
This is Craig Palmer. I am not sure if you remember me but I remember you and your brother. I was very sad to hear about your brother. He was my newcommer and we were friends after kids. I actually am the one who picked him up at the building after he had been in the ceiling for God knows how long. I hope all is well for you and your family. I know the holidays must be tough every year.
Craig Palmer
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Hello Allison. I reposted your post at the bbs associated with kidsofelpaso.com where many read that were in KIDS of El Paso. I knew and remember Phil well and was sad to learn of his passing only a couple of years ago. I will email you soon.
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Thanks Craig and KidsofElPaso for your responses and messages of condolence.
Craig, I remember you and know that my mother has very fond memories of you and your mother. Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't you and Phil roommates for a while after the "Great Escape" episode?
I hope that your life is filled with happiness.
All my best,
Allison
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I'm with the "Anon." who made her first post to the site. Jackie never showed me anything but kindness and care at K of BC.
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you should get your head out of your ass, she was at court against her own family. Wheres the love and caring you speak of?
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Opinions, people...it's just personal opinions...
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I don't know the situation you're talking about, but I went to court against my parents too. They had gotten a Straight friendly judge to extradict me from Georgia to Florida, and then fought over whether that meant I was in state custody or my parents. I had to give the judge some reasons why I should remain in state custody.
I didn't want to do this. I had to. I would have much prefered to handle this very private family matter privately. The trouble was that, given the chance, both of my parents had demonstrated their willingness to break the law in order to put me back in the Program. So I was just trying to retain my liberty till I turned of age and couldn't be compelled to go back. I wasn't mad at my parents at that time. I was afraid of them. I thought they'd gone completely nuts by this time. But I wasn't out to hurt them. It was self defense.
I tried for years to live according to everyone else's morality.
I tried to live like everyone else, to be like everyone else.
I said the right things even when I felt and thought quite differently.
And the result is a catastrophe.
---Albert Camus
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i have heard about kids not having a relationship with their families, but is this still going on?
Are there many of these instances? I guess I just don't understand how kids can be against their parents. What did the parents do to deserve that? Please help me out here....I am a parent myself, and I can't even think of not having my child in my life. Are there many familes that don't see each other, and is it all Newton's doing? What does he get out of all this? I know I am asking alot of questions, but I really need to understand what is going on here. I have heard about all this for years, but have never really hear the true story. Can anyone shed some light on this for me.
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On 2003-12-22 04:16:00, Anonymous wrote:
I guess I just don't understand how kids can be against their parents. What did the parents do to deserve that?
I think the most frequent, longstanding complaint about parents is that some of them never really get it. A lot of the kids who land up in these programs don't really have a problem to begin with. Their parents have the problem. And Virgil was a master at turning parents against their children. I was stunned that he was able to convince my father that I was a coke-head. It really cut deep. Then, many months later, when Dad saw me all brused up w/ black eyes accross the open meeting room, he apparently believed that I had attacked sombody and gotten hurt by someone defending themselves. That hurt a whole lot more than the broken nose.
Eventually, within a year after I came of age and got out, Dad and I were finally able to talk without going through Program ppl. Naturally, we fought some. But we got past that, figured out that we'd both failed in some ways and both been taken for a ride. He never, ever again threw up in my face those lies. So we got along just fine till the end of his days.
The rest of my family is a different story. I can't stand their company at all. They treat me like some kind of invalid. Sometimes it's subtle remarks, like that I sure am good at picking balanced meals for my kids or act surprised that I'm actually making a living, not a street hooker or was able to get myself from Florida to my dad's place in WV when he needed help when he was sick.
Sometimes, it's a lot more overt and hostile, like when they flat out refused to believe that I'd had anything to do with trippling the value of a property that my Dad left us. They took me for about $30k through pure democracy; the five of my brothers and sisters simply agreed and decreed that the agreement I'd had with my dad and which my sister had said she would honor was just crazyness because they thought that he and I were both a little daft.
When it comes right down to it, the only role for me in my family is that of some pitiable loser. I'm not used to being treated that way and I won't tolerate it. As much as I love those people and miss them, I've found it's just not worth the indignity.
You know, if Mama Cass Elliot would have shared that damn sandwich
with Karen Carpenter, they would both still be alive today!!!!!!!
--chongo
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On 2003-12-22 04:16:00, Anonymous wrote:
"i have heard about kids not having a relationship with their families, but is this still going on?
Are there many of these instances? I guess I just don't understand how kids can be against their parents. What did the parents do to deserve that? Please help me out here....I am a parent myself, and I can't even think of not having my child in my life. Are there many familes that don't see each other, and is it all Newton's doing? What does he get out of all this? I know I am asking alot of questions, but I really need to understand what is going on here. I have heard about all this for years, but have never really hear the true story. Can anyone shed some light on this for me."
I haven't talked to my dad in about 3 years, this time. It's not MY choice. He doesn't approve of how I live my life, so he has pretty much cut me out of his life. I have a wonderful husband of 13 years, two great kids, one starting college in January and because I drink, he doesn't speak to me. Unfortunately, he has also decided that my kids, HIS GRANDKIDS, need the same "tough love" and they haven't done ANYTHING. Part of growing up and becoming an adult is to break away from parents. When that starts to happen kids go a little nuts. I went thru it with my older one and am going thru it with the younger now. Yes, it's difficult...but we've hopefully raised our kids to be healthy, independent adults. Part of that is having a different personality and a different way of life than your parents. Newton taught my dad that if he didn't like what I was doing then he needed to cut off communication with me. Now that I AM a parent....there is NOTHING MY KIDS COULD DO TO MAKE ME NOT SPEAK TO THEM FOR YEARS AT A TIME. Sure, I get pissed at my kids, sometimes we don't talk for a day or two and I 'm sure that length of time will grow when they move out and REALLY start to figure out their own lives and who they are, but I would NEVER let it get to the point that my dad and other program parents have. The whole "get honest" concept is about nothing but keeping control over the kids life. I've said before that I felt like I lived life under a microscope because of the program. Any time I made a mistake in my life, a HUGE deal was made out of it, the WHOLE FAMILY (including step-brother and sister from my dad marrying another program parent) was informed of whatever indescretion may have happened. I WAS AN ADULT WITH KIDS OF MY OWN!!!!!!!! I WASN'T SUPPOSED TO HAVE TO INFORM MY DADDY ABOUT EVERY MISTAKE I MADE. According to Newton, I should have NO private life at all.....EVER.
The holidays these past years have been hard. There are great parts of my dad, but Newton really reinforced the controlling nature of him and then it was all over. Nothing I could do from then on was ever good enough. Well, ya know what???? It's good enough for me, good enough for my kids and good enough for my husband. Sorry, but Dad can go FUCK HIMSELF. I have tried numerous times over the last couple of years. Oh, and I'm his ONLY CHILD...there IS nobody else...just me. My kids have written letters, made phone calls and gotten NO RESPONSE back.
You ask what have these parents done??? Put me in a corrupt, abusive prison like atmosphere for two years and then have perpetuated those "teachings" ever since. But......in spite of all that.....I REALLY miss him sometimes. It's STILL not my choice that we don't have contact, so maybe the question should be, what have the kids done to deserve this?For something that has spread with all the forethought of kudzu, the Internet isn't half bad."
-- Newsweek, 2/27/95
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Ok, now ya'll have me thinking of my mom. And I thought of something that I think really sums up what the Program can do to an especially vulnerable parent.
Around 6 years after I got out of the program, I had been married for a couple of years and had two kids. My husband had always worked full time, I'd gone back and forth between babysitting at home and working part time jobs to help out with the cash flow. We were not affluent by any 1st world measure. But we were not exacly on the skids, either.
My mom wouldn't know anything about that, though, cause we rarely talked and she never visited. So my husband gets really sick. It was an autoimune problem where his body started attacking his kidneys and it was life threatening. The doctors said it was even money to go any way; remission, prolonged illness or death. I don't think I've ever felt so scared and alone in all my life than the first night he spent at the hospital.
So, what did I do? What would anyone do. I pulled out my phone book and started calling friends and family. When I got to my mom, she was very detached about the whole thing. She didn't really respond at all. And I thought to myself, well, she's always been a little frigid. What did I expect? And I let it go.
Next day, she calls me up and tells me to pack my bags, she's made arrangements for me to get the residential treatment I need and for care for my kids while I'm in there. Even offered to pay for college if I'd only get treatment.
It seems that, when I said kidney disorder, she heard hepatitis C contracted by heroin injection.
That's all there is in her world; druggies and perfect people. Most people are not perfect, they're druggies. But that's OK! Cause she's got the pattented, proven 100% effective cure for that root of all evil!
It's dangerous for me to be around her. I can't help myself. I let my guard down and start expecting a little motherly love and I always get hurt.
Commerce with all nations, alliance with none, should be our motto.
--Thomas Jefferson
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"you should get your head out of your ass, she was at court against her own family. Wheres the love and caring you speak of?"
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Is that all you've got against her?
Try to come up with a better arguement if you feel Jackie is evil or horrible but stop reaching for straws.
You are clearly the one with your head up your #@%! I also had to go to court to fight being returned to KIDS and this certainly included fighting my parents and their demand to return me to Newton's Clutches. Give me a break!
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Jackie was in court against her family, but not for putting her in the program... she was there to support her brothers exwife. She wanted to move to FL. with their daughter to be near the Newtons. I think that is a bit different than what you were thinking. Too bad the judge was such a wimp, and let her take their daughter away from grandparents, aunts, uncles, and most of all her father. Just to be closer to Newton. Actually, Jackie's family is very much against the Newtons. I think that was why Newton wanted the child away from all of them Typical Newton tactics.
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The way I see it Jackie was always kind to me in Kids. Nicer to me than most. Even when I was rebellious. She certainly was never mean to me.
Just doesn't seem like enough of a reason to be angry with or dislike someone...sure it's different than fighting your parents to get out of kids. It also makes sense regardless that she would fight for custody of her own child?
It would make perfect sense based on all the claims of brainwashing, that she would want to remain close to the Newtons.
Our brains are all wired differently. Some people found a way out after only a short time, others were more susceptible to the brainwashing. Let's remember who is really at fault to begin with. Who put her there? Who kept her there for so long that she probably doesn't know anything different?
The reality is one could argue that her family fought against her to prevent her custody of the child. One could argue that this is pretty standard for a judge to award custody to a mother over the father.
It is another sad story of families torn apart by this quack. Let's put the blame where it belongs and let's just hope for the sake of her kid, the family that she is estranged from, and for her that she finds some way out of there.
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Actually, it wasn't her seeking custody of a child. She was at court in support of Joel's exwife. His wife wanted to move to Fl. to be near the Newton's, and Joel was fighting to keep his daughter here to be near him and his family. In Fl. the only family she would have would be the Newton's. Another account of Newton's ruining people's lives. Let's remember just who the villian is here. I hold no resentments towards anyone who was on staff when I was a newcomer....It took awhile, but now I realize we were all victims.
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Yes. I saw my error after I posted. I misunderstood at first. I suppose that is different. I think the larger point is how tragic it is that families are torn apart by that place and by the Newtons, and how tragic it is that some people are just not capable of breaking away from them.
I agree with you completely. It seems people seem to forget who is really at fault here and so easily displace their anger on everyone else, especially who couldn't seem to get away from Virgil and Ruthie. To me that is just sad and certainly not a reason to be angry with them.
I have less trouble feeling sorry for Joel. Compared to Jackie he was the mean one. I mainly feel sorry for the kid.
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It's sad parents don't know their children (Ginger) and grandchildren because they can not let go of their attachment to The Seed or any of these other cult-like programs. Nobody wins in a situation like this, but I agree with Ginger, it is best to keep a healthy emotional distance from her mom. No guilt, no hate, no bitterness. Life goes on, and broken hearts really do heal faster where ever there is love.