Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Facility Question and Answers => Topic started by: laylo2008 on January 10, 2008, 04:10:06 AM
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I see that somebody posted on Heritage RTC in Provo, Utah back in October. Our child was today recommended for placement in this facility and although we are being told by therapists that we trust that it is an excellent program, I wonder if anybody can provide some more detailed information, pro or con, about the program there? Thank you so much.
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IF this turns into a CCM girl flame/troll fest I'm booting this thread out of this forum posthaste.
that being said..
anyone have something to offer?
Last I heard the place had decended into a shithole.
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You know -- I am just a 40-something worried and desperate mother of a child who is struggling with anxiety and depression related issues and who is failing school and showing a lot of anger. I am trying to get my child some help without harming or endangering her, and I have turned to this forum as a way to do that. I am not computer-illiterate, and I understand the terms "flame" and "troll" in general, but I have no idea what a "CCM girl flame/troll fest" is or why you would think that this post constitutes one.
Also, when you say the place has descended into a "shithole," I wonder specifically what you mean. Would my child be in danger there? Exposed to more dangerous conduct than what she is currently exhibiting? Not helped?
We are just seeking information so we can make a decision in the best interest of our teen.
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CCM girl 1989 is a poster who had been at this place for years. She was also been at Cross Creek Manor, which explains the CCM.
She has stated that Heritage RTC was the best place, she has been at. But as she also had explained there was no room at home for her because there was a step-mom.
Short to say: A New family life and she belonged to the old one, so she was out.
Because she state that is was a good place, some posters dont appreciate her statements. I respect it because I have not been there and from what I can see there are red lights by the facility, but worse - much worse - are seen.
I help out with two watchpages and an article is underway, but until that I think that you should read these links and consult these myspace groups. The best statements are always made by those, who have actually been there:
Survivor groups:
Heritage RTC (http://http://groups.myspace.com/heritagertcutah), Myspace
Survivors of Heritage RTC (http://http://groups.myspace.com/heritagertc)
Heritage RTC Provo tread on Facility Question and Answers (http://http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=23516) in this forum
Please notice that your offspring will live there for very long time
Average length of stay is 14 months. Minimum length of stay is six months. We do have clients who stay as long as two years.
That is a long time to be away from home and with their communication policy. The first two week are there NO CONTACT. Then there are calls with a therapist present every second week. The quistion you have to ask yourself is: How can my child tell me if anything is wrong there? Remember: They have to make money in order to stay in business. Would you as a businessowner not be tempted to hide errors?
Then look at the workbook on page 34 (http://http://www.heritagertc.org/media/media1/Self-Mastery%20workbook.pdf) - the hot seat exercise:
Your child is placed in a seat and then the other kids, who also must have some kind of problem in order to be there are allowed to criticize your child. All of them in turn!
How can that improve the self-confidence?
As I said above. I see some red flags, I would use months to investigate in order to ensure the safety of my child. But it is not my child and I dont know why he or she has to be removed from the home and extended family network (The facility let the child talk to you - not the rest of the family).
I have offered to mail CCM girl, so you can write with her. If you want me to, then write me.
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CCM girl 1989 is a poster who had been at this place for years. She was also been at Cross Creek Manor, which explains the CCM.
She has stated that Heritage RTC was the best place, she has been at. But as she also had explained there was no room at home for her because there was a step-mom.
Short to say: A New family life and she belonged to the old one, so she was out.
Because she state that is was a good place, some posters dont appreciate her statements. I respect it because I have not been there and from what I can see there are red lights by the facility, but worse - much worse - are seen.
I help out with two watchpages and an article is underway, but until that I think that you should read these links and consult these myspace groups. The best statements are always made by those, who have actually been there:
Survivor groups:
Heritage RTC (http://http://groups.myspace.com/heritagertcutah), Myspace
Survivors of Heritage RTC (http://http://groups.myspace.com/heritagertc)
Heritage RTC Provo tread on Facility Question and Answers (http://http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=23516) in this forum
Please notice that your offspring will live there for very long time
Average length of stay is 14 months. Minimum length of stay is six months. We do have clients who stay as long as two years.
That is a long time to be away from home and with their communication policy. The first two week are there NO CONTACT. Then there are calls with a therapist present every second week. The quistion you have to ask yourself is: How can my child tell me if anything is wrong there? Remember: They have to make money in order to stay in business. Would you as a businessowner not be tempted to hide errors?
Then look at the workbook on page 34 (http://http://www.heritagertc.org/media/media1/Self-Mastery%20workbook.pdf) - the hot seat exercise:
Your child is placed in a seat and then the other kids, who also must have some kind of problem in order to be there are allowed to criticize your child. All of them in turn!
How can that improve the self-confidence?
As I said above. I see some red flags, I would use months to investigate in order to ensure the safety of my child. But it is not my child and I dont know why he or she has to be removed from the home and extended family network (The facility let the child talk to you - not the rest of the family).
I have offered to mail CCM girl, so you can write with her. If you want me to, then write me.
Heritage is a program you can trust. They are what they say they are. Which is a rare thing these days.
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Mom, are you still there? Programs never help. They make things worse. Being unhappy does not mean being depressed, and being unhappy or angry is not soemthing that is "cured" by treatment. These are natural emotional reactions to disatisfying life-stuations. I suggest you start examining the life-situation she has to see what makes her unhappy or angry and fix it. You should also be aware that your perception of her emotions may not be an accurate guage of thier intensity
Being abducted and imprisoned helps no one, and should only be employeed as a tactic if someone- adult or kid-is in immediate danger of suicide or homocide.
All clinical trials have proved that these "prgrams"-residential, involuntary confinement, "emotional growth" style "schools", bootcamps or wilderness programs either do not help, or hurt.
Heritage house is listed on heals list of institutions that practise systematic torture
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I am still here and I appreciate the posts. We are an intact two-parent home with three daughters. We have been trying for two and a half years to avoid placing my daughter in residential treatment. We have worked intensively with therapists and have done everything we can to deal with our daughter's issues in a positive and caring manner. Without detailing everything that has gone on, our child is 14 years old and refuses to attend school; is continually verbally abusive to others (primarily me and her 7-year-old sister); and reacts to any attempts to set limits with behavior such as going to the kitchen, retrieving a knife, and stabbing a couch cushion, kicking furniture over, and other such behaviors.
In my family of origin, several people have depression and anxiety disorders. In my heart, I believe my daughter is suffering from depression and anxiety and perhaps even panic disorder or something like that. I have a sister who is now 37 years old who has suffered with these issues since her early adolescence. I have seen over the years that she manifests many of the behaviors that my daughter manifests. My parents were always unable or unwilling to get her help. My sister believes her problems are entirely biochemical. Her journey has led her to be addicted to klonopin, to abuse prescription drugs, to be extremely promiscuous. She is physically abusive to my parents and has stolen from them. She has NEVER held a job. As an adult, she has refused all advice to seek treatment. The most recent incident occurred when the police found her car blocking both lanes of a busy residential street, and she was asleep in the car. She refuses to believe that most of this happens because she generally cannot remember her conduct when she "comes to." My biggest fear is that my daughter will end up like this.
So, although I know that most of the people posting on this forum come from a place of feeling that these places are dangerous to the kids, I cannot bear that my child will face a future like this and I want her to get help. We absolutely do not want her to be away from us. We do not want her to be coerced, abused, badgered or treated in anyway other than a calm, caring way. Nevertheless, we have tried and tried and tried to help her. How can we help her?
By the way, and I may do another post about this, her treatment team is also recommending a place called Teton Peaks in Idaho, but unanimously think that Heritage is better.
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Laylo,
It's obvious that you care very much about your daughter. I also can tell you're not a troll. With that being said, be very careful about the information you give to anyone on this board. Also, when she comes home after her treatment, maybe you'll come back here to share your experience? I hope you do. Take care.
CCM girl 1989
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Laylo:
Have you hired a reputable neurosurgeon to take a look at her? Have you had an MRI done? Psychatric drugs of ANY sort tried?
Or are you just drowning in the behaviorist bullshit spoon-fed by quacks? Because that's what they are.
If your daughter believes her problems are biochemical in origin she is probably right. This shit happens. Organic brain damage is a reality. Get out of the "how can we control her" mindset, and take her to see REAL professionals for what's actually wrong with her.
A prescription of some sort or other is a hell of a lot better than a long stay in some hellhole that won't help a single fucking thing and may make things worse- MUCH worse. (As in suicide.)
No, seriously. Get off Fornits, get on the fucking phone, and find her a god damn doctor.
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this is taken from abusive youth facility watch list. Dont go with Heritage House
Heritage House (aka The Heritage Schools) is located in Provo, UT and is highly suspected of being an abusive behavior modification program. HEAL downloaded the Heritage House admissions forms. Things they consider to be extreme behavioral problems in need of immediate intervention include: "cursing, challenging authority, homosexuality--but, they call it "sexual identity distress", sad/unhappy, argues, noncompliant, impulsive, overreacts, secretive (shows a need for privacy), stubborn, does not accept criticism, etc." These are all normal parts of growing up, establishing independence, and growing into one's own individuality/self. Heritage House uses physical restraints. In the contract, Heritage House explains that they control teen's contact with outside world including telephone privileges and monitoring incoming and outgoing mail (this is a civil rights violation, it violates the 4th, 8th, and 14th, amendments according to the Federal Court who has placed federal injunctions against this practice at other programs.) In the contract, "You have the right to refuse to participate in any research project". This is the parent's right, but, it does not apply to the teen. It suggests, and HEAL has other paperwork that confirms, that many of these programs are experimenting on the youth in them. Heritage House also uses "seclusion" as a punishment/disciplinary tool. Seclusion is solitary confinement and in many programs can last for months and permanently disable the child/teen mentally. Heritage House identifies their inmates by number, not name, like Provo Canyon School and like Nazi Germany. We recommend you do not subject your child to Heritage House. If you were abused or had your rights violated at Heritage House, please contact us and we will share your story here as a warning to others.
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hwo does she live if she's never had a job?
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I'm a survivor of several such programs, and I can safely say that *nobody* I knew or know from them saw any effect other than making things worse and making it impossible to trust anyone. I personally was one of those cases of more misguided/asshole parent than actual problem with no apparent solution (I was depressed. That was it), but... from my experience, it accomplished nothing but estranging my family and leaving me with PTSD.
As to specifics, i'm normally reluctant to talk about it, but if there's any chance of conveying an understanding of what kind of 'help' these places really provide, i'd do what I could.
And just as a final note.. a few of the red flags I noticed here:
-Utah. ESPECIALLY Provo. Irrelevant as that may seem, from what i've seen and heard they're just straight-up Bad Places.
-This 'hot seat' exercise. ANY such attack therapy is bad news.
-Matter of fact, most of that self-mastery thing is pretty sketchy. Watch out for the random invented terms and concepts.
-"Treatment teams" are often paid by referral to certain programs. Careful there.
-NATSAP. Organization known to get buddy-buddy with totally abusive programs.
-"Spirituality Program": Basically forcing Religion X upon "students", the problem with which should be obvious.
-It is the policy of Heritage Schools, Inc. that the adolescent has no outside contact for the first two weeks following admission... MAJOR one. Any supposed school that restricts any communication for any reason is probably not very good.
Just for starters.
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You know -- I am just a 40-something worried and desperate mother of a child who is struggling with anxiety and depression related issues and who is failing school and showing a lot of anger. I am trying to get my child some help without harming or endangering her, and I have turned to this forum as a way to do that. I am not computer-illiterate, and I understand the terms "flame" and "troll" in general, but I have no idea what a "CCM girl flame/troll fest" is or why you would think that this post constitutes one.
Also, when you say the place has descended into a "shithole," I wonder specifically what you mean. Would my child be in danger there? Exposed to more dangerous conduct than what she is currently exhibiting? Not helped?
We are just seeking information so we can make a decision in the best interest of our teen.
Sorry about the vagueness of my post. I banged it out in a hurry. CCM girl presence tends to bring out the worst in alot of people, and I'm not willing to have that sort of chaos on my own forum. None of it was directed at you though and thank you for coming here to ask for help.
CCM girl might well have had a grand old time at Heritage. She did come from Cross Creek Manor where she was badly abused according to her own testimony.
So the analogy that fits in my mind to describe CCM girls experience would be as follows:
Pakistani Goat Herder is incarcerated in Gitmo for accidently wandering across the Afgahni border looking for his lost goats.
American Goverment then places him in a minimum security jail.
Of course he is going to believe he went from Hell right to heaven.. And no doubt CCM girl believes the same about her own experience.
The thing CCM girl forgets is that facilities change. Her own experience back in the 1990's doesn't reflect the testimony of recent survivors who've suffered at the hands of the Heritage at a more recent time.
http://http://www.heal-online.org/childtortureusa.htm
This link will take you to Heal's directory on abusive schools.
This is what Heal has to say about the place:
Heritage House (aka The Heritage Schools) is located in Provo, UT and is highly suspected of being an abusive behavior modification program. HEAL downloaded the Heritage House admissions forms. Things they consider to be extreme behavioral problems in need of immediate intervention include: "cursing, challenging authority, homosexuality--but, they call it "sexual identity distress", sad/unhappy, argues, noncompliant, impulsive, overreacts, secretive (shows a need for privacy), stubborn, does not accept criticism, etc." These are all normal parts of growing up, establishing independence, and growing into one's own individuality/self. Heritage House uses physical restraints. In the contract, Heritage House explains that they control teen's contact with outside world including telephone privileges and monitoring incoming and outgoing mail (this is a civil rights violation, it violates the 4th, 8th, and 14th, amendments according to the Federal Court who has placed federal injunctions against this practice at other programs.) In the contract, "You have the right to refuse to participate in any research project". This is the parent's right, but, it does not apply to the teen. It suggests, and HEAL has other paperwork that confirms, that many of these programs are experimenting on the youth in them. Heritage House also uses "seclusion" as a punishment/disciplinary tool. Seclusion is solitary confinement and in many programs can last for months and permanently disable the child/teen mentally. Heritage House identifies their inmates by number, not name, like Provo Canyon School and like Nazi Germany. We recommend you do not subject your child to Heritage House. If you were abused or had your rights violated at Heritage House, please contact us and we will share your story here as a warning to others.
Good luck.
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I looked at the myspace groups (http://http://forum.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=messageboard.viewThread&entryID=24786250&groupID=102878214&adTopicID=23&Mytoken=E713F58B-975B-4D21-A734D1FEEEB961E197870044) because all programs have periods of better and worse
Various issues:
1) Past: Lower levels had to sleep in a bluelighted room because they had cameras running all night (and possible during the day also)
Present: The lowe levels can sleep in a room but the door into the room has to remain open at all time.
Level system: past
Special Status (S.S.) after going to Crisis or running you were on S.S.
Level 1 (not much difference between S.S. and 1 no privelages)
Level 2 (got to go onto porch alone every 10 minutes check in)
Level 3 (got to go to room alone, and check out with other level 3's to horses or pool, or whatever!)
Level 4 (You had to be on level 3 for 8 weeks straight to be eligible, the therapist and staff met every 2 weeks to discuss levels)
Level 5 (I could count on one hand how many I saw in my 3+ years make 5)
Present:
1: basically your nothing.. and get nothing
2: you could have a radio in your room and go off campus with the unit for rec activities
3: could check out to the porch, have a radio and head phones, and a radio in your room, you could go off campus with your unit or other units, and could also attend coed dances, and join the heritage sports teams, oh and you could get on campus jobs
4: everything a 3 can do plus check out to the circle with other level 4's and 5's and also go on 4 & 5 activites that were coed, and you could check out to other GIRLS units, and you could order food!
5: everything a 3 and 4 could do plus you could get an nsas with which you could go off campus by yourself for a certain amount of time and also get an off campus job.
we didnt get to check out to the pool or horses inless you were a 4 or 5 and there was another girls unit there
what you call crisis is now isu.... i personally never went there and maintained high levels the whole time i was there.. with over a year spent there was only dropped levels to a 1 one time besides entry level 1.
About education - you dont get it better in any programs
we didnt have anything like getting to go to real school or anything like that.. or anything like that points system.. you could get removed, and end up in isu but thats about it
Then there is the isolation room. For how long are people put inside it? One of the largest transport firms, who cuffs and transport people around to many program has made a guide where they recommend that the use of isolation rooms do not exceed 2 hours.
I have also looked on Teton Peaks.
Their webside is here (http://http://www.tetonpeaks.com). It seems like a normal hospital lockdown and it is only something people should be put in if they are caught trying to commit suicide. I wont let my child live like that.
Late 2006 one in my family were committed voluntary because the individual were about committing suicide due to depression by not eating the life-supporting medicin. It was a so-called semi-open unit. No cords, a closed but not locked door, single bed room with absolutely no hiding spaces, clothed being checked for belts - anything that could be used wrongly. I had to visit the individual and be present while using a shaver etc. But there were no specific levels, privileges like walking down to the store inside the hospital, walking on the property, off the property were decided every day on a meeting. The individual were kicked out after 16 days and transferred to day-treatment because the family took over working shifts monitoring the progress. It was hard.
Why are there not places out there where people are treated with somewhat decency and where they dont have to earn things?
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Hey Che,
You have it backwards. I was at Heritage for 3 1/2 years, then was transferred to Cross Creek Manor for 9 months. Just wanted to clear that up.
I've actually spoken to numerous students to see what Heritage is like these days. I was curious since after all I did spend a pretty long time there! Anyway, the program has changed for the better in my opinion. More therapy, less strict. Unfortunately, you do have to have have some rules. Sorry, but it's true. They just don't let you run wild!
CCM girl 1989
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The analogy actually works better when reversed. Take the same goat herder, but him in a minimum security prison.. transfer him to Gitmo and blammo..
Instant longing for the previous minimum security prison.
Laylo.. investigate all your options before you make any further decisions. Look beyond the convention and think about things like home schooling and such.
Seriously..
You really.. really... really can't ever trust your kids in the care of a third party no matter what hot air they blow up your skirt.
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I have not read this whole thread, but I can say that while I was a "student" at Provo Canyon School (also in Utah), we were aware that we had heard of Heritage School; that it was cake compared to PCS. We also heard that the kids at Heritage were threatened to be sent to Provo Canyon School if they didn't shape up.
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Better than bad isn't necessarily good.
Better than bad isn't necessarily "good enough" for that matter.
Why is a placement considered, what is the problem, and how is a program supposed to fix this supposed problem anyway?
Sorry to contradict a parent (but not a professional by any means) but, well, how is sending someone off to be held away from all their familiarity, the outside world in its entirety for that matter, and forced to "open up" to a programs' idea of "therapy" going to magically fix depression and anxiety?
Showing anger is not a problem, and neither is failing in school - not something that warrants a program by any means. Why have you not simply offered therapy?
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I have not read this whole thread, but I can say that while I was a "student" at Provo Canyon School (also in Utah), we were aware that we had heard of Heritage School; that it was cake compared to PCS. We also heard that the kids at Heritage were threatened to be sent to Provo Canyon School if they didn't shape up.
Provo Canyon was 2 minutes down the street from Heritage. We knew Provo Canyon to be 10 x as strict as Heritage. We knew that Provo Canyon could be a possibility if we did not follow the rules at Heritage. I never knew of anyone being sent to Provo Canyon from Heritage.