Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Straight, Inc. and Derivatives => Topic started by: Che Gookin on December 15, 2007, 08:03:29 PM
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http://http://www.youth-liberation.com/protests.html
interesting lot AARC has there..
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Those pictures were taken in the main group room. A "counselor" in a girls bra at work is a little concerning is it not? Very professional and appropriate. Not to mention that it's the type of bra belonging to a young teen.
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The photos just came across as youthful hijinks, but given the location of said hijinks that does make me wonder.
More telling is the fellow's spelling.
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Notice the kleenex boxes along the wall where the parents stand sobbing during the meetings!
And notice the 12 steps and 12 traditions signs on the wall.
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Lovely... right charming bunch of sports.
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I am the guy with the bra in my mouth haha and some one on top of my shoulders. the only thing is i don't work at AARC. i am just one of the abused clients. They made me do it.
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I am the guy with the bra in my mouth haha and some one on top of my shoulders. the only thing is i don't work at AARC. i am just one of the abused clients. They made me do it.
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I am the guy with the bra in my mouth haha and some one on top of my shoulders. the only thing is i don't work at AARC. i am just one of the abused clients. They made me do it.
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I am the guy with the bra in my mouth haha and some one on top of my shoulders. the only thing is i don't work at AARC. i am just one of the abused clients. They made me do it.
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Indeed. Do you want me to remove the picture or put a subtitle explaining the situation?
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Indeed. Do you want me to remove the picture or put a subtitle explaining the situation?
You don't know that this fellow is telling the truth. He could be a counselor, who is embarrassed enough to assume a detainee's persona.
...The thing is, as so many of the "counselors" are, in fact, abducted teens who are now of age, the line between victim, who deserves tenderness and sensitivity, and victimizer, who deserves public shame and censcor, is blurred.
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I thought of that, but in this I'm erring on the side of caution. Besides I've a source in AARC who is a recent grad that will confirm it all for me.
So if it is a staffer I'll know when said source gets back from vacation in a few weeks.
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Well it might be a good idea to change it? I just wouldn't want you to base your website about pictures taken out of context. I am simply trying to help you keep your collaboration of pictures up to date. But to be honest I wonder if it is legal putting my picture up. Hm... i will have to look into that. But i guess i am just simply confused considering i really have nothing to do with the point that your trying to demonstrate. I am a 20 year old male having a good time with a bra in my mouth. If you were trying to find something of shock value that had nothing to do with the situation maybe you should get some pornographic pictures and claim that the people in them are also AARC councilors... That would be much more incriminating. As far as me being a councillor being ashamed of these pictures and then lying. Haha I don't really see why that would be, considering they are up on Facebook which has millions of people that randomly serf the net. You would think that i would keep them secret if this where the case. So no i am no ashamed of it and about all the issues from going through treatment. Going to be honest with you here i think i am pretty good guy :) I go to school, good relationship with my family and feel pretty good about myself. So if you have any questions or comments or maybe you want to be friends on face book. You can find me under Joel Mader. So please feel free add me so i can also see pictures of you and what you do on your free time. God Bless.
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This website isn't based on pictures of you, Joel. It's based on the fact that AARC is a fraud, falsely claiming to provide medical treatment, when it is in fact a cult. Many people have been the victims of the Leader and the members of this cult, and this forum exists so that they can communicate. Since you have previously spoken out in defense of the Wizard of Vause, I'm going to say that I don't think that you're a pretty good guy. Why is it Joel that so many of you AARColytes make vague threats about legal action whenever any light is shed on your creepy perv palace?
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Wow, those are some pretty good pictures. Funny how they look a lot different after they have been taken out of context. Did someone say they were going to check into the fact that it is illegal to post pictures on the internet without the persons permission? There's no need to check into that. It is fully illegal. In fact, in some American states you can go to jail for it. Now, Im not threatening anyone here, or saying that their going to jail by any means. But posting someone's name under a picture of them, without them knowing is pretty desperate attempt at exploitation of AARC. I could post a picture of some dude with 5 guns in his hand and say its the creator of this site. Does that mean its true? Im not sure.... Does it?
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WOOO! Can you make sure one of them is fully automatic?
'
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http://http://www.youth-liberation.com/staff.html
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Hey there comrades. I came across a video of some aarc staff, or maybe they are just aarc graduates. But whatever the case they are affiliated with aarc in some way. If you recognize them please identify them with their first and last name.
http://http://www.2girls1cup.com
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Oh and here is the creator of this website
http://http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m-60e3-dvic555.jpg
....and wouldn't you know it, i think its fully automatic
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Guess Mike is reading AARC now.
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You're funny PSM, and a typical AARColyte dipshit. There are millions of pictures of people posted on the internet without the permission of the photo subjects. But hey, there's no need to check into it. Just like there's no need to check into unlawful confinement, unlicensed foster homes, sexual assault, or any of the other aspects of AARC-life. Thanks for the input. To coin a phrase, you have brought a ray of sunshine into an otherwise cloudy day.
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But posting someone's name under a picture of them, without them knowing is pretty desperate attempt at exploitation of AARC. I could post a picture of some dude with 5 guns in his hand and say its the creator of this site. Does that mean its true? Im not sure.... Does it?
Well if you actually posted a pic of the creator of this site, and then said it was the creator of the site that would be ok. But what you're saying is that you are posting a picture of some random dude and saying it's the creator of this site.
Now, I saw a picture of Paris Hilton on someone's shirt, did you all actually get PERMISSION from Paris to post her pic on the internet with her name under it?
No?
Ok, I thought not.
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And Joel, if you are the guy with the bra in your mouth, I don't see anything that says you are staff.
There is someone else in the picture who IS staff though, maybe they were referring to him, and not you?
The reason people may believe this actually has something to do with AARC is because it's AARC staff in the AARC building. If you're not staff Joel, then I guess the councilors, councillors are bringing their friends into the building to play Guitar Hero with program resources?
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But posting someone's name under a picture of them, without them knowing is pretty desperate attempt at exploitation of AARC. I could post a picture of some dude with 5 guns in his hand and say its the creator of this site. Does that mean its true? Im not sure.... Does it?
Well if you actually posted a pic of the creator of this site, and then said it was the creator of the site that would be ok. But what you're saying is that you are posting a picture of some random dude and saying it's the creator of this site.
Now, I saw a picture of Paris Hilton on someone's shirt, did you all actually get PERMISSION from Paris to post her pic on the internet with her name under it?
No?
Ok, I thought not.
Now someone is just totally reaching today aren't they? Come on PSM be honest.. did the program save you?
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AARC staff posted the pic with Paris on his shirt with her name under it.
Wasn't referring to YLF posting it, was referring to the concilor posting it.
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Durrrr... never mind my bad. Carry on.
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I'm trying to be patient, waiting to see if AARC saved PSM.
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There's no need to check into that. It is fully illegal. In fact, in some American states you can go to jail for it. Now, Im not threatening anyone here, or saying that their going to jail by any means.
Now that is interesting...can you cite the statute or law you are referring to?
I believe there is such a thing as a Freedom of Information Act, which includes varying types of media...news, radio, newspaer, internet. Might want to look that up in your free time.
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Is this joel guy a counselor?
You know, the kids that become counselors are just as much victims as the kids that run away. I can see how you'd still post their picture...but if this person isn't a counselor, and just a brainwashed kid, i don't know....There may be a moral grey area. Kids get brainwashed and stay conected to the cults for reasons that are out of their control, you know? Lot's of kids stay connected or stay in porgram past 18 because of braindamage and threats...
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AARC does not respect clients confidentiality. Dean Vause brings up past clients first and last names in Open Meeting all the time. They have photo's available to the public of all the grads, events and so on.
There may not be any law out there saying that we should respect confidentiality of clients but be open about staffers, but generally there is some sense to that. This is just for the sake of debate - not the bra picture. There is a difference between someone stuck in a graduation picture because they are trapped in AARC, and someone who chooses to become staff or keep living their life in AARC when they have been let out. Even though they are programmed all the same and "victims" in their own way, they are still making a choice, albeit a manipulated one.
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Well Joel was at the AARC staff Xmas party.
If he's not staff, then why's he at that party?
Joel?
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Can we look back to page 1, posts #6, 7, 8 & 9
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I don't really see why that would be, considering they are up on Facebook which has millions of people that randomly serf the net. You would think that i would keep them secret if this where the case.
By "secret", do you mean like how the conscilers at AARC have hidden or removed their profiles from Facebook now that this information has been brought to light?
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What about the "horny bitches in the smoke pit"?
Are they staff or abused clients? Or both?
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Wow, those are some pretty good pictures. Funny how they look a lot different after they have been taken out of context.
How were the pictures taken out of context?
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I've had no less than three people email me to say they are certain Joel is was a staff member.
Anymore vague threats? anyone? anyone?
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AARC does not respect clients confidentiality. Dean Vause brings up past clients first and last names in Open Meeting all the time. They have photo's available to the public of all the grads, events and so on.
There may not be any law out there saying that we should respect confidentiality of clients but be open about staffers, but generally there is some sense to that. This is just for the sake of debate - not the bra picture. There is a difference between someone stuck in a graduation picture because they are trapped in AARC, and someone who chooses to become staff or keep living their life in AARC when they have been let out. Even though they are programmed all the same and "victims" in their own way, they are still making a choice, albeit a manipulated one.
Well. my feeling is that once you are "brainwashed" you can't really make choices. That's why the boy from synanon who attempted to murder a lawyer threatening the cult had the charges against him dropped in return for severing contact with the cult. It's why I think aarc graduates that end up murdering people are not responsible for their actions, aarc is.
I also don't know how aarc runs, but in my program-cult, they had ways of forcing you to stay on post graduation. I'm not saying not to put the pictures up, but kids who are abducted and then stay connected to the place long term, are not "staff" in the true sense of the word- someone like Vause, or Micheal desisto, or adults who choose to enter the cult volentarily and then stay on long term.
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The clients/graduates/staff are all just by products of these programs.
At least while they're still involved, then they become victims or survivors.
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I'm trying to be patient, waiting to see if AARC saved PSM.
AARC did not save me. I used the tools AARC provided for me, and saved my self with a lot of help from God. AARC was just there to help me along the way.
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name two tools aarc gave you.
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PSM are you implying some vague threat of legal action that could occur or even suggesting the remote possibility of such a thing?
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name two tools aarc gave you.
1. The Twelve Steps of Alcoholics Anonymous
2. A healthy environment to practice, and learn them.
PSM are you implying some vague threat of legal action that could occur or even suggesting the remote possibility of such a thing?
Not one bit. Taking legal action towards you would be a waste of my time and money.
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So what is with all the inane blather in your original post implying some sort of criminal violation on my part? I feel your intention was to intimidate me into removing the photos as they prove embarrassing to AARC when presented in the format that I've had them arranged.
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name two tools aarc gave you.
1. The Twelve Steps of Alcoholics Anonymous
2. A healthy environment to practice, and learn them.
http://http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Alcoholics+Anonymous+failure+rate
I'll leave it to the others to debunk the myth of AARC's safety that you are attempting to perpetuate.
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name two tools aarc gave you.
1. The Twelve Steps of Alcoholics Anonymous
2. A healthy environment to practice, and learn them.
http://http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Alcoholics+Anonymous+failure+rate
I'll leave it to the others to debunk the myth of AARC's safety that you are attempting to perpetuate.
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So what is with all the inane blather in your original post implying some sort of criminal violation on my part? I feel your intention was to intimidate me into removing the photos as they prove embarrassing to AARC when presented in the format that I've had them arranged.
No, there was no intimidation factor there. I was simply stating fact. You can do what you want from there. :D
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name two tools aarc gave you.
1. The Twelve Steps of Alcoholics Anonymous
2. A healthy environment to practice, and learn them.
http://http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Alcoholics+Anonymous+failure+rate
I'll leave it to the others to debunk the myth of AARC's safety that you are attempting to perpetuate.
Well, I felt safe at AARC. Before AARC I was living a gang life, and eventually ended up in jail because of it. It would have been hard for me to join Alcoholics Anonymous on the outside and practice it myself. I needed a place like AARC to keep me away from the drugs and booze so that I could start working the 12 steps. I'm not here to tell you that you have to agree with me about AARC. I know there are a lot of people that wont. I have been through AARC, and know what it has provided me with, and I am grateful for that. Wether or not you want to believe me is your decision.
And about the google search you did. Try searching Alcoholics Anonymous success rate. Seems like you guys try way too hard to prove the sober world wrong. I don't think Alcoholics Anonymous would be so big, and so well known if it didn't work for some people. You should try going to a meeting with an open mind and see what people have to say. Your opinion might change. Just a thought.
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I can clearly see how well AA worked for those in the pictures.
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I can clearly see how well AA worked for those in the pictures.
No Kidding! What horror. Young people having fun! Gasp!!! Disgusting. They are obviously brainwashed cultists participating in a ritual. Deprogramming is required!
:lol:
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No Kidding! What horror. Young people having fun! Gasp!!! Disgusting. They are obviously brainwashed cultists participating in a ritual. Deprogramming is required!
:lol:
They aren't young!!! Those are grown men!!! Collin is at least 30! Yes if they were young frat boys in a dorm I'd think nothing of it, but they're grown ass men "working" (playing guitar hero) in a "treatment facility"! What again are parents paying all that money for??? Sorry guys, that type of behavior stops being cute after about age 21, at the very latest. At least frat boys can blame their immature behavior on alcohol the next day.
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One does expect some level of professionalism from the staff when they are paying for it. Sadly the pictures display in living colour the complete catastrophic failure of the program to effect lasting change in the lives of these young men.
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Wow, this is pathetic. I was unaware that 30 year old guys are unable to play video games. Also was unaware that this was an activity that was frowned upon at aarc when the facilities are closed and the staff is there after hours. There is a hockey rink and gym as well... are we permitted to use that as well? According to you guys we dont let the kids use any of that stuff..well I guess someone needs to hey?
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Might it also be the shotgunning of beers and the "smoke pit"? I'm leaning towards that part of it myself. The guitar hero business is more secondary in my mind.
Any explanation for this group being so poorly served by AARC?
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The program is a worthless shithole?
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Cougar_Sean wrote:
name two tools aarc gave you.
1. The Twelve Steps of Alcoholics Anonymous
2. A healthy environment to practice, and learn them.
AA is WIDELY available outside of AARC.
If your own home with your own parents isn't a healthy environment for you to practice these tools then how is your home a healthy environment to be a host recovery home for the OTHER clients in the program?
Since these homes are unlicensed anyway, and AA is a FREE program. Why don't you all just go to AA meetings and stay at each other's houses? That's pretty much what you're doing anyway. Right?
Why is AARC charging $150 and getting millions of dollars in donations each year to accomplish the same thing?
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The program is a worthless shithole?
Mmmmm... COULD BE!
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Cougar_Sean wrote:
name two tools aarc gave you.
1. The Twelve Steps of Alcoholics Anonymous
2. A healthy environment to practice, and learn them.
AA is WIDELY available outside of AARC.
If your own home with your own parents isn't a healthy environment for you to practice these tools then how is your home a healthy environment to be a host recovery home for the OTHER clients in the program?
Since these homes are unlicensed anyway, and AA is a FREE program. Why don't you all just go to AA meetings and stay at each other's houses? That's pretty much what you're doing anyway. Right?
Why is AARC charging $150 and getting millions of dollars in donations each year to accomplish the same thing?
I didn't come on here to explain in detail why AARC is so good. I honestly have nothing to prove to you guys about AARC or AA for that matter. I am simply talking about how AARC has helped me, and that I am grateful for that. You guys will take anything I say, and use it against me, or use it as an argument anyway. If you guys have mature questions about AARC, and are willing to learn a thing a or two about the program go ahead and ask me questions about it. I will be more than happy to be honest with you. You guys just don't seem to be willing to be open to anyones opinion if it is a positive one. Seems like you are purely attracted to the negative ones.
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No Kidding! What horror. Young people having fun! Gasp!!! Disgusting. They are obviously brainwashed cultists participating in a ritual. Deprogramming is required!
:lol:
They aren't young!!! Those are grown men!!! Collin is at least 30! Yes if they were young frat boys in a dorm I'd think nothing of it, but they're grown ass men "working" (playing guitar hero) in a "treatment facility"! What again are parents paying all that money for??? Sorry guys, that type of behavior stops being cute after about age 21, at the very latest. At least frat boys can blame their immature behavior on alcohol the next day.
Well look at you passing judgement on what is and is not appropriate behaviour. You people are hilarious - for years painting AARC as worse than a gulag, then posting pictures of people - who cares what age - having fun. Which, I may add, seems to happen a lot there (between torture, rape and indoctrination meetings ) :evil: :evil:
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If you guys have mature questions about AARC,
Why do the clients who leave AARC and try to live life on their own come to such tragic consequences?
Like Andy Evans? (And he's not the only example). Was a graduate, even a counselor at AARC. Why did he leave AARC to murder a woman and spend the rest of his life in jail?
This is an honest question. It seems the only ones who do ok stay with the AARC program after graduation.
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Of the first six people I met who had been in AARC, three were females and three were males. Five of the six were graduates. All three females were sexually assaulted during their time in AARC. One by a staff member, one by a male oldcomer, and the other by unknown assailants. Of the males, one is currently incarcerated for a violent crime and one is facing charges for a violent crime. AARC is not a gulag, it's a cult that fosters abuse of children by both adults and other adolescent inmates. It was born out of a cult, and will always be a cult. The staff are degenerates and amateurs.
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Guest wrote:
Cougar_Sean wrote:
Quote:
name two tools aarc gave you.
Quote:
1. The Twelve Steps of Alcoholics Anonymous
2. A healthy environment to practice, and learn them.
AA is WIDELY available outside of AARC.
If your own home with your own parents isn't a healthy environment for you to practice these tools then how is your home a healthy environment to be a host recovery home for the OTHER clients in the program?
Since these homes are unlicensed anyway, and AA is a FREE program. Why don't you all just go to AA meetings and stay at each other's houses? That's pretty much what you're doing anyway. Right?
Why is AARC charging $150 and getting millions of dollars in donations each year to accomplish the same thing?
I didn't come on here to explain in detail why AARC is so good. I honestly have nothing to prove to you guys about AARC or AA for that matter. I am simply talking about how AARC has helped me, and that I am grateful for that. You guys will take anything I say, and use it against me, or use it as an argument anyway. If you guys have mature questions about AARC, and are willing to learn a thing a or two about the program go ahead and ask me questions about it. I will be more than happy to be honest with you. You guys just don't seem to be willing to be open to anyones opinion if it is a positive one. Seems like you are purely attracted to the negative ones.
What is immature about these questions?
If you can't answer the questions, just say so.
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If it's the tools of AA that helped you then why does this have to be accomplished in such a private and costly environment?
AA only works if it's voluntary, and if the person is truly an addict.
AA is supposed to be free. It's one of the 12 traditions.
And AA doesn't require you to avoid contact with family until Step 4 or so either.
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I've been away for the last six days. it's interesting to note that the two things you mention that aarc gave you can be obtained for free, and have nothing to do with dean vause.
the leader is omniscient=cult.
it's okay, you'll figure it out in a few years, and then spend the rest of you life dealing with ptsd.
i've spouted your bullshit. however. the day comes, I hope your guru is gonna be there for you on that day.
I doubt he will, just ask the neals
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Ask Andy Evans too
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This forum and its continuous lies and slander makes me laugh out loud. I am constantly amused at the post times where there are people up on christmas eve bickering like 9 year old children about a program that saves lives. Ignorant individuals such as the creator of this site and the people that post hilarious joke like comments should know that the people that actually know the program are laughing at you. You are a looser. Perhaps you should consider getting a job, or a wife. Now im not really interested in hearing about your sad life or your confuzed falicies about AARC so save it. Peace Out
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This forum and its continuous lies and slander makes me laugh out loud. I am constantly amused at the post times where there are people up on christmas eve bickering like 9 year old children about a program that saves lives. Ignorant individuals such as the creator of this site and the people that post hilarious joke like comments should know that the people that actually know the program are laughing at you. You are a looser. Perhaps you should consider getting a job, or a wife. Now im not really interested in hearing about your sad life or your confuzed falicies about AARC so save it. Peace Out
Ever think of using some sort of spell check?
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what is a looser?
look pal, I've been in your position, spitting out program diatribe. one day you'll realize what happened to you. I hope your ready for it
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This forum and its continuous lies and slander
I dare you to be specific.
What content in this AARC forum is a lie? Specifically??
I want to know exactly what these people have to say that doesn't actually happen there.
I know you will justify everything that happens in AARC because "AARC saves lives". But given that, I want to know what part of the AARC treatment methods listed here are not true.
The reason you believe that AARC "Saves lives" is because you and your family have placed under condtions that will make you susceptible to having the idea that your life is truly in danger if you don't stick with AARC and it's philosophies! Yes parents are desperate when they place their kids in AARC, yes the kids are troubled when their parents place them in AARC.
Life is about choices. You make the choice to threaten your own life whether you've gone through AARC or not.
If the AA program is the tools you use to keep yourself safe and sober (IF you were truly an addict to begin with) then you can easily find those tools at dozens of locations around Calgary each week!
I will not be the least bit surprised if you don't answer this post.
Typical.
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You are a looser. Perhaps you should consider getting a job, or a wife.
I'd get a wife, but AARC taught me that homosexuality is a symptom of the disease.
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I will not be the least bit surprised if you don't answer this post.
Typical.
Never fails, ask these pro-AARC members to give some kind of specific example or to clarify WHY they think what they supposedly think and you get NOTHING.
Says a lot doesn't it?
"Don't question the process - Just BELIEVE"
Just as the moonies believe that satan will reach you through your family, and Scientologists can't explain why they sign a contract for the next billion years, AARC members can't explain how AARC saves their life through AA when AA alone can't, nor why they have to suffer such isolation, humiliation, intimidation, fear and coercion to become a decent human being, or to live at all.
No wonder life is hard on the "outside" after you graduate, AARC is not a "normal" way of life. Sober or otherwise.
Back to your meetings people, you need to get in there and give back since your parents went bankrupt having former clients scream in your face all day.
Glad it saved your, um, life?
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Ignorant individuals such as the creator of this site and the people that post hilarious joke like comments should know that the people that actually know the program are laughing at you. You are a looser.
Yeah I guess after you've been involved with AARC long enough you don't really care about other people, and simply laugh at their suffering. If someone's experience is different than your own you just think they are ridiculous losers.
Guess it's not possible for someone to have an experience different than yours?
Laughing at the hardship of others and then trying to humiliate them, not to mention being as narrow-minded as a person could possibly get.
Excellent qualities in a counselor.
Don't you agree?
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yea, we are all just a bunch of loooooosers. talk to that dude in fifteen years and we"ll see how he feels
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In fifteen years ill still laugh at all of you. And you wonder why no one replies to your quotes? Its because no one cares about you and they're too busy laughing at what you write.
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In fifteen years ill still laugh at all of you. And you wonder why no one replies to your quotes? Its because no one cares about you and they're too busy laughing at what you write.
How childish!
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Well son, you've been in a gang and a cult, so I think you're ready for pyramid sales. You might want to try Primerica or Amway. Thinking for yourself and living autonomously isn't for everybody, and these jerks who don't like AARC should respect that. I'll see you on the Hale Bop tail, partner.
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:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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Does anybody in this forum have any training in treating addiction or has done any research in to proper and accepted methods of treatment? Is anybody here qualified to criticize a treatment program that utilizes the 12 steps as a method of recovery?
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Hmmm...many of us weren't in a program that DID utilize "The 12 steps" OR we were sent to a screwed up 'program' or 'facility' and weren't drug users until AFTER our incarceration. (OR alcoholics)
Chew on that.
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Does anybody in this forum have any training in treating addiction or has done any research in to proper and accepted methods of treatment? Is anybody here qualified to criticize a treatment program that utilizes the 12 steps as a method of recovery?
5 percent success rate.
yay.
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Is anybody in this forum qualified to criticize a program that transplanted lock, stock and bullshit barrell, Kids, which was, as anyone who has done even a cursory examination of this phenomenon knows, a cult?
I've done some research, and none of it so far supports the concept of having amateurs label any kid who comes through the doors as an addict. There is also little research to support turning over highly vulnerable adolescents to other adolescents who have been subjected to intense psychological assault by frauds and degenerates. Additionally, there is a real dirth of scientific data supporting the use of unlicensed prisons run by scam-artist cult-leaders to treat adolescent addicition.
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Does anybody in this forum have any training in treating addiction or has done any research in to proper and accepted methods of treatment? Is anybody here qualified to criticize a treatment program that utilizes the 12 steps as a method of recovery?
Yes, when a program lies and destroys people, they are qualified to criticize it.
Is anyone at AARC formally trained in treating addiction? (Previous participation in the program does not count as training)
Does AARC have a proper client/staff ratio for treating adolescents in a residential health care facility? (Staff being those who are qualified with formal training and experience, not former graduates of the program)
Is anyone at AARC qualified to make formal diagnoses to rule in or out other conditions?
Is one week of training enough to give an oldcomer the skills they need to provide overnight care for "severely chemically" individuals who may be detoxing from any given drug? I think not, considering people detoxing from certain drugs require proper medical supervision.
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I am qualified to criticize the 12-steps as *the only* way to recover as that is absolutely unsupported by the addiction research.
As the author of "Recovery Options: The Complete Guide," I can tell you that the research finds that cognitive behavioral therapy and motivational interviewing are equally effective to 12-step treatment, according to the biggest study ever done on alcohol recovery: Project Match, conducted by the National Institute on Alcoholism and Alcohol Abuse
http://www.niaaa.nih.gov/NewsEvents/New ... /match.htm (http://www.niaaa.nih.gov/NewsEvents/NewsReleases/match.htm)
[Note: the 12 step facilitation arm did have slightly more "complete" abstinence for a year, but there was no difference on "sustained" abstinence between the treatments. This basically means that since in AA, if you have "one" you are considered a newcomer again, there was less of that, but not less return to alcoholic drinking, in the AA group compared to the others].
Btw, Cognitive behavioral therapy and motivational interviewing are specific, manualized approaches that are not what AARC does, regardless of whether it claims to incorporate them. Motivational interviewing is absolutely incompatible with AARC since it works with the patients on *their own* goals and avoids confrontation.
Also, randomly assigning and coercing people in twelve step programs -- as opposed to letting them choose them or another approach, is linked with worse outcomes:
http://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/arh291/41-48.htm (http://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/arh291/41-48.htm)
The same findings carry over into drugs: people who *voluntarily* affiliate with 12-step programs do better than than who do not, but forcing people into 12-step programs does not improve outcomes and may do harm in some instances.
Finally, confrontational and humiliating counseling as done at AARC is linked universally with bad outcomes:
http://www.counselormagazine.com/content/view/608/1/ (http://www.counselormagazine.com/content/view/608/1/)
--Maia Szalavitz
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I am qualified to criticize the 12-steps as *the only* way to recover as that is absolutely unsupported by the addiction research.
As the author of "Recovery Options: The Complete Guide," I can tell you that the research finds that cognitive behavioral therapy and motivational interviewing are equally effective to 12-step treatment, according to the biggest study ever done on alcohol recovery: Project Match, conducted by the National Institute on Alcoholism and Alcohol Abuse
http://www.niaaa.nih.gov/NewsEvents/New ... /match.htm (http://www.niaaa.nih.gov/NewsEvents/NewsReleases/match.htm)
[Note: the 12 step facilitation arm did have slightly more "complete" abstinence for a year, but there was no difference on "sustained" abstinence between the treatments. This basically means that since in AA, if you have "one" you are considered a newcomer again, there was less of that, but not less return to alcoholic drinking, in the AA group compared to the others].
Btw, Cognitive behavioral therapy and motivational interviewing are specific, manualized approaches that are not what AARC does, regardless of whether it claims to incorporate them. Motivational interviewing is absolutely incompatible with AARC since it works with the patients on *their own* goals and avoids confrontation.
Also, randomly assigning and coercing people in twelve step programs -- as opposed to letting them choose them or another approach, is linked with worse outcomes:
http://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/arh291/41-48.htm (http://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/arh291/41-48.htm)
The same findings carry over into drugs: people who *voluntarily* affiliate with 12-step programs do better than than who do not, but forcing people into 12-step programs does not improve outcomes and may do harm in some instances.
Finally, confrontational and humiliating counseling as done at AARC is linked universally with bad outcomes:
http://www.counselormagazine.com/content/view/608/1/ (http://www.counselormagazine.com/content/view/608/1/)
--Maia Szalavitz
Calgary Youth Court Judges need to read this and all the attchachments.
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I also have done some research, including attending the Western Canadian Conference on Addictions and Mental Health this past fall. This conference presented current research in Addictions and Mental Health. Dr. David Burns, author of "Feeling Good" spoke about CBT in addiction and gave a rather mediocre and unconvincing talk. CBT seems to be quite effective with Anxiety disorders though.
Dr. Tonigan is a statistician and he revealed some of the most current substantial long term research on Alcoholics Anonymous. He found that beyond a doubt, AA is very successful in the treatment of addiction, and its also free. The fact that it is free (after an initial optional treatment component) is substantial and should always be taken in to account. Many drug treatment centers in North America utilize the 12 steps and encourage their clients to attend AA after graduation.
This ajax13 person doesn't seem credible at all. Using terms like "scam-artist cult-leaders" is extremist, and I wouldn't take any of his/her statements seriously.
Maia Szalavitz seems to subscribe to the Motivational Interviewing model which is used at AADAC to treat moderately addicted individuals. This model tends not to work with severely addicted individuals.
Also, Dr. Flores, who wrote "Group Psychotherapy With Addicted Populations: An Integration of Twelve-Step and Psychodynamic Theory" found that forcing 12 step treatment to addicts is often needed to kickstart the recovery process. This process is shown on shows like "Intervention" on A & E.
Maia probably also subscribes to the "Stages of Change" model, in which treatment is tailored to the level of readiness for change that the addict is in. This has not been proven to be essential in treating addiction, especially severely addicted clients like those at AARC. Dr Tonigan argues that the Stages of Change model has been sold to clinitians as a good sounding idea, but there is no quantitative evidence to support its success with severe addicts.
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Calm Down, how come all you AARColytes claim to find me less than credible, yet you never present any evidence contrary to what I post? Vause is a psychologist? Vause didn't use cronies from the Union Institue to sell AARC in the legislature? The staff aren't all former clients or relatives of Vause? Girls are not being sexually assaulted while in AARC? AARC didn't begin life as a branch of Kids? AARC is a licensed medical facility? The host homes are all licensed and monitored by an official body? Don't take my statements seriously, demonstrate that they are untrue.
AA is free, AARC is a bargain at $150 a day plus the cost of feeding and housing your newcomers once you open a host home.
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Hmmm. Still no evidence. Its sad that nobody has any. Just stories and exagerations and assumptions. And personal attacks. good job.
Sorry. Me again, making up posts. Can't help it, it's a compulsion.
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Hmmm. Still no evidence. Its sad that nobody has any. Just stories and exagerations and assumptions. And personal attacks. good job.
Seriously, how brain damaged ARE you?
Programs using the same treatment methods were found to be abusive, closed down and sued.
How much more evidence do you want?
Why are you asking people on Fornits to prove what has already been proven in a court of law?
Call up Phil Elberg, I'm sure he'd be happy to explain to you what exactly happened to Kids of Bergen County since you don't want to believe anyone here.
Now you prove something that has NOT been proven. Provide some evidence that AARC is totally different from Kids, Straight, Seed etc., and should be allowed to operate.
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Proof not needed. The program clearly works. You are in the dark.
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The program clearly works, so there is no proof needed that it works? You should have told Goresky, Vause and Imbach before they wrote up their independent evaluation of AARC. You could have saved these people a lot of time.
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Proof not needed. The program clearly works. You are in the dark.
I guess if you stick a group of kids in an environment of total control and expose them to brainwashing techniques - teaching them that the program clearly works. Then you are the evidence this brainwashing is effective and the program clearly works.
For now
Until the effect wears off and you realize the whole process was only a carefully constructed con of your parents and basically a scam.
Apparently according to (how many members here?) it wears off, unless you plan on still being a peer counsellor when you're 50. I guess you may put your own kids in the program by then because if they're somewhat normal they will be displaying typical teenage behaviour that gets most of the clients into the program in the first place.
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Proof not needed. The program clearly works. You are in the dark.
I guess if you stick a group of kids in an environment of total control and expose them to brainwashing techniques - teaching them that the program clearly works. Then you are the evidence this brainwashing is effective and the program clearly works.
For now
Until the effect wears off and you realize the whole process was only a carefully constructed con of your parents and basically a scam.
Apparently according to (how many members here?) it wears off, unless you plan on still being a peer counsellor when you're 50. I guess you may put your own kids in the program by then because if they're somewhat normal they will be displaying typical teenage behaviour that gets most of the clients into the program in the first place.
Exactly how many stories are there? I see two or three rehashed anecdotal accounts. The only people who post here regularly trumpeting the evil of AARC have never even been in the building.
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Exactly how many stories are there? I see two or three rehashed anecdotal accounts. The only people who post here regularly trumpeting the evil of AARC have never even been in the building.
Hahahahaha. So true.
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Whereas we don't know who you AARColytes are that keep posting here, day after day even though there's no reason to since the accounts of the victims are false, right?
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Whereas we don't know who you AARColytes are that keep posting here, day after day even though there's no reason to since the accounts of the victims are false, right?
Do you mean both of them?
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I mean, why do you feel compelled to post here over and over again, anonynmously. Most of the AARColyte posters who have posted and identified themselves are former staff, which means that they have a vested interest in denying the criminal activities associated with their cult. Beyond self-preservation, what motivation do you anonymous cowards have for posting, whether there are two anti-AARC posters, or two hundred?
AARColytes have called me a clown, a hero,(I assume sarcastically, but they're pretty stupid, so who knows, they may not know what that word means), it has been repeated over and over again that I'm not credible even though none of these AARColytes knows who I am beyond a screen name. So how do they behave toward people who were forced to divulge their most private and intimate histories and thoughts to a gang of deranged cult-members? Should those people feel comfortable posting their stories in here?
But really, one story is enough. If one story is true, it means that AARC admits adolescents who are not drug addicts. It means that AARC does not have a scientific screening process. It means that AARC does not have a staff qualified to diagnose drug addiction or dependence. It means that AARC holds people against their will, which is illegal. It means that the Wiz is a liar, and an amateur and a con artist. So one is enough.
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You might be a hero, but you are no guitar hero.
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I disagree. One is not enough. I'm going to need to see 5 to give you approval.
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If only I were a newcomer and you could approve or not approve what I do. Sadly for you, but fortunately for me, I'm an adult and you're just a cult-member.
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:bump:
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"Guest" wrote:
Proof not needed. The program clearly works. You are in the dark.
I guess if you stick a group of kids in an environment of total control and expose them to brainwashing techniques - teaching them that the program clearly works. Then you are the evidence this brainwashing is effective and the program clearly works.
For now
Until the effect wears off and you realize the whole process was only a carefully constructed con of your parents and basically a scam.
Apparently according to (how many members here?) it wears off, unless you plan on still being a peer counsellor when you're 50. I guess you may put your own kids in the program by then because if they're somewhat normal they will be displaying typical teenage behaviour that gets most of the clients into the program in the first place.
Exactly how many stories are there? I see two or three rehashed anecdotal accounts. The only people who post here regularly trumpeting the evil of AARC have never even been in the building.
http://www.petitiononline.com/AARCSurv/petition.html (http://www.petitiononline.com/AARCSurv/petition.html)
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Wow, those are some pretty good pictures. Funny how they look a lot different after they have been taken out of context. Did someone say they were going to check into the fact that it is illegal to post pictures on the internet without the persons permission? There's no need to check into that. It is fully illegal. In fact, in some American states you can go to jail for it. Now, Im not threatening anyone here, or saying that their going to jail by any means. But posting someone's name under a picture of them, without them knowing is pretty desperate attempt at exploitation of AARC. I could post a picture of some dude with 5 guns in his hand and say its the creator of this site. Does that mean its true? Im not sure.... Does it?
Hey get a life; no one is gonna spend money to go after someone for putting pics on the internet with their name. You must not have lots to think about.
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I mean, why do you feel compelled to post here over and over again, anonynmously. Most of the AARColyte posters who have posted and identified themselves are former staff, which means that they have a vested interest in denying the criminal activities associated with their cult.
and you consider yourself, neutral and unbiased? with no agenda?
Beyond self-preservation, what motivation do you anonymous cowards have for posting, whether there are two anti-AARC posters, or two hundred?
Remember that you are anonymous yourself, Ajax. Why do you cower behind a false name? If you were being truthful you would have nothing to hide and would post honestly under your name.
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You must be new if you don't know who ajax is. What do you want him to do, sign every post with his phone #, address and SIN #?
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You must be new if you don't know who ajax is. What do you want him to do, sign every post with his phone #, address and SIN #?
No need to do that. Plus it is a lot of work. He can place it in his footer or under his user name. There is an option in his personal account settings that will allow his name and address, phone number to be displayed automatically on each post.
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Whereas we don't know who you AARColytes are that keep posting here, day after day even though there's no reason to since the accounts of the victims are false, right?
You're delaing with a lil' feller we like to call"TheWho." Since he was so fully and totally owned in a half-dozen other threads this week, he decided to torment some AARC survivors for a while. Has he said "Raped kids are funny!" yet? He's a truly disturbed person.
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WHO is no longer an individual troll. That troll has slipped in to the small slimy shadow of its troll-a likes.
All who troll here are WHO. Some of them also happen to be TTI pimps and proponants. While others no less vile, are here because they're desperate to spew their bile and like any punked-ass troll afraid to do so in the real world where harm could come to them.
miserable golems.
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TheWho is this troll. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16007&start=4155#p337835)
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TheWho is this troll. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16007&start=4155#p337835)
It's wasted effort to out a troll or exhibit any interest in them as individuals. Not without it inevitably going in circles. (They all delight in that BTW)
Even a troll who has a TTI related day job will forever hide in the slimy depths without standing up for their "beliefs". Trolls get off on ensnaring others in illogical loopy "debates"
Not without it inevitably going in circles.
If you have information to post on any perpetrators or perpetuators of abuses against teens, young adults and their families, do so. Stay the course. Do not become embroiled in a troll’s attempts to deter you from making truths known. Getting the information out and taking action where these misdeeds continue are productive.
Go toward your objective on firm ground and take them out.
Otherwise just follow the quoted link and link it back to this thread and follow them back and forth until the misguided delusion that a troll can be reasoned with, in the same way as say persons with differing opinions finally leaves you.
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^^ Whooter ^^
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TROLL^^
They’re only “self aware” in the hungry squalling “kleinian infantile" sense and huger for recognition to feed their narcissism (to convince themselves of some importance from their squalid depths).
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^^ Whooter ^^
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Seems anytime someone gets into a tight spot or is being asked to explain a double standard people run and cry "Troll" or thewho. It is a cop out that we see over and over again.
You always have the option of just not answering the question or not replying to the post as someone else suggested. No need to get upset. :guesswho:
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True, but it doesn't change the fact that you areTheWho.
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^^Whooter^^
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"Cougar_Sean" wrote:name two tools aarc gave you.
1. The Twelve Steps of Alcoholics Anonymous
2. A healthy environment to practice, and learn them.
1. Alcoholics Anonymous is FREE, and more importantly, voluntary. AARC is neither.
2. Placed under mandatory care by the worst of the worst adolescents who are too much of a behaviour problem
Glad you didn't say the Twelve Traditions, because AARC certainly doesn't follow those.