Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Anonymous on December 15, 2007, 05:08:49 PM
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I've been talking to an educational consultant who suggested that I take my son to the Academy at Swift River on Christmas Day as a gift.
A friend of mine directed me to this website. and also said to mention the educational consultant (I don't know why).
I'm not sure what I'm supposed to say, though! LOL
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Don't do it.
Frightened Parents,
Big Business
There is a big market these days for programs that promise to take troubled teens and return them to their worried parents with all the creases neatly ironed out.
This market consists of four layers: educational consultants who find placements for youngsters in schools, treatment centers or wilderness camps; transport services to get children to places were they don't want to go; schools, rehab centers or other long-term programs; and wilderness adventure camps with sessions that typically last from two weeks to two months.
"You can save your troubled child's future. Choosing the right program or school is essential to recovery," reads one typical Internet ad for a firm of educational consultants that promises to get your child to the right place, for a "reasonable" fee.
Also easy to find on the Web are transportation or "escort" services that employ people, sometimes ex-soldiers, with the combat skills needed to get an unwilling teenager from home to a school or hospital that may be in a distant part of the country, or even outside the country. Some of these companies ask parents to sign a release allowing them to use handcuffs, medication or other aids for subduing the child.
A favored tactic is to come for the child in the middle of the night, when the young person has no warning that he or she is about to leave home for an unknown environment. Such sudden departures have raised legal questions about whether they amount to kidnapping, even if the escort service is carrying out its job at the parents' request.
Earlier this year those questions emerged in high relief when major media carried the story of David von Blarigan, a California teenager whose parents decided he needed to be placed in a therapeutic program. Court records, including the parents' statements about why they decided to send the boy away from home, are confidential, but the available information suggests little more reason than that he had failed to adjust to a private school and was not communicating well with other members of his conservative Christian family.
Von Blarigan woke in his room one night to find two big strangers hulking over him while his parents explained that he was going to be leaving home for a while. He was taken on an unexpected journey that landed him at a behavior modification school in Jamaica called Tranquility Bay -- a school whose contract with parents allows its staff to use handcuffs, pepper spray and stun guns on students.
When a neighbor issued a complaint against von Blarigan's parents for kidnapping, the parents were exonerated on the grounds that the forcible relocation of a child by parents is not kidnapping except in cases where custody is an issue. But the case raised questions about whether a minor with no history of violence, drug abuse or other criminal activity should be placed in such a restrictive environment against his will, even by parents.
Then there are the schools, which may provide the kind of structure and consistency that will help a confused teenager get his or her thinking straight and serve as a refuge if there are difficulties at home. Or they may simply warehouse young people until they grow up by themselves, or, worse, replace whatever neglect or abuse some may have experienced at home with different forms of neglect and abuse.
Like the Academy at Swift River and its sister school, Mt. Bachelor Academy in Oregon, the schools may work in conjunction with the fourth layer, the wilderness programs. Borrowing credibility from the excellent reputation of the Outward Bound programs, these programs capitalize on the concept of letting physical necessity and the drive to rescue companions teach young people vital life lessons. But not all of them are as constructive and well managed as Outward Bound. When the leaders are insensitive or even just inexperienced, they can be extremely dangerous. Part of the danger lies in the belief that troubled young people are manipulative and not to be trusted.
The case of Michelle Sutton of Ripon, Calif., is an appalling example of an attempt by alarmed parents to find the magic cure for what may have been a fairly normal reaction to a bad experience. Sutton had been date raped, and afterward had experimented with drugs and showed symptoms of depression. Her parents paid $14,000 to send her to a wilderness camp called Summit Quest for two months.
One day the counselors who were guiding Michelle and other youngsters on a long hike lost their way. Michelle ran out of water, and the counselors told the other campers not to share with her. When her mouth became frothy, the counselors quipped that she looked as though she'd been eating marshmallows. With these tough-it-out taunts ringing in her ears, Sutton went blind, then collapsed and died of dehydration. Just six weeks later another girl, Kristen Chase, died of sunstroke during a hike in 105-degree weather at a different wilderness camp.
And no one deserved the fate of Aaron Bacon, who in 1994 was placed in a wilderness camp for a month's stay because he had been smoking a lot of pot and, possibly, selling. Bacon went out with a group on a month-long desert expedition in Utah. During the trip he developed pain from an ulcer. When he was unable to keep pace with the others, his sleeping bag was taken away as punishment, even though the nights were cold in the camping areas. His ulcer worsened, his pain intensified, and he died in the back of a truck after days of suffering.
Almost as appalling as his death was the statement by a defense attorney after the expedition's sponsors, North Star Expeditions Inc., were ordered to stand trial for child abuse. "While no one wants to use the word acceptable loss, the fact is Aaron Bacon showed up at North Star with a history of drug use and past involvement in drug sales, and he tried to control the situation with manipulation," said North Star's attorney, Sheldon Wellins.
Ironically, there very likely would have been more of an outcry if these children had been convicted of crimes and sent to prison, where they would have had advocates, rules, rights.
-- Stephanie Kraft
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Don't do it.
Frightened Parents,
Big Business
There is a big market these days for programs that promise to take troubled teens and return them to their worried parents with all the creases neatly ironed out.
This market consists of four layers: educational consultants who find placements for youngsters in schools, treatment centers or wilderness camps; transport services to get children to places were they don't want to go; schools, rehab centers or other long-term programs; and wilderness adventure camps with sessions that typically last from two weeks to two months.
"You can save your troubled child's future. Choosing the right program or school is essential to recovery," reads one typical Internet ad for a firm of educational consultants that promises to get your child to the right place, for a "reasonable" fee.
Also easy to find on the Web are transportation or "escort" services that employ people, sometimes ex-soldiers, with the combat skills needed to get an unwilling teenager from home to a school or hospital that may be in a distant part of the country, or even outside the country. Some of these companies ask parents to sign a release allowing them to use handcuffs, medication or other aids for subduing the child.
A favored tactic is to come for the child in the middle of the night, when the young person has no warning that he or she is about to leave home for an unknown environment. Such sudden departures have raised legal questions about whether they amount to kidnapping, even if the escort service is carrying out its job at the parents' request.
Earlier this year those questions emerged in high relief when major media carried the story of David von Blarigan, a California teenager whose parents decided he needed to be placed in a therapeutic program. Court records, including the parents' statements about why they decided to send the boy away from home, are confidential, but the available information suggests little more reason than that he had failed to adjust to a private school and was not communicating well with other members of his conservative Christian family.
Von Blarigan woke in his room one night to find two big strangers hulking over him while his parents explained that he was going to be leaving home for a while. He was taken on an unexpected journey that landed him at a behavior modification school in Jamaica called Tranquility Bay -- a school whose contract with parents allows its staff to use handcuffs, pepper spray and stun guns on students.
When a neighbor issued a complaint against von Blarigan's parents for kidnapping, the parents were exonerated on the grounds that the forcible relocation of a child by parents is not kidnapping except in cases where custody is an issue. But the case raised questions about whether a minor with no history of violence, drug abuse or other criminal activity should be placed in such a restrictive environment against his will, even by parents.
Then there are the schools, which may provide the kind of structure and consistency that will help a confused teenager get his or her thinking straight and serve as a refuge if there are difficulties at home. Or they may simply warehouse young people until they grow up by themselves, or, worse, replace whatever neglect or abuse some may have experienced at home with different forms of neglect and abuse.
Like the Academy at Swift River and its sister school, Mt. Bachelor Academy in Oregon, the schools may work in conjunction with the fourth layer, the wilderness programs. Borrowing credibility from the excellent reputation of the Outward Bound programs, these programs capitalize on the concept of letting physical necessity and the drive to rescue companions teach young people vital life lessons. But not all of them are as constructive and well managed as Outward Bound. When the leaders are insensitive or even just inexperienced, they can be extremely dangerous. Part of the danger lies in the belief that troubled young people are manipulative and not to be trusted.
The case of Michelle Sutton of Ripon, Calif., is an appalling example of an attempt by alarmed parents to find the magic cure for what may have been a fairly normal reaction to a bad experience. Sutton had been date raped, and afterward had experimented with drugs and showed symptoms of depression. Her parents paid $14,000 to send her to a wilderness camp called Summit Quest for two months.
One day the counselors who were guiding Michelle and other youngsters on a long hike lost their way. Michelle ran out of water, and the counselors told the other campers not to share with her. When her mouth became frothy, the counselors quipped that she looked as though she'd been eating marshmallows. With these tough-it-out taunts ringing in her ears, Sutton went blind, then collapsed and died of dehydration. Just six weeks later another girl, Kristen Chase, died of sunstroke during a hike in 105-degree weather at a different wilderness camp.
And no one deserved the fate of Aaron Bacon, who in 1994 was placed in a wilderness camp for a month's stay because he had been smoking a lot of pot and, possibly, selling. Bacon went out with a group on a month-long desert expedition in Utah. During the trip he developed pain from an ulcer. When he was unable to keep pace with the others, his sleeping bag was taken away as punishment, even though the nights were cold in the camping areas. His ulcer worsened, his pain intensified, and he died in the back of a truck after days of suffering.
Almost as appalling as his death was the statement by a defense attorney after the expedition's sponsors, North Star Expeditions Inc., were ordered to stand trial for child abuse. "While no one wants to use the word acceptable loss, the fact is Aaron Bacon showed up at North Star with a history of drug use and past involvement in drug sales, and he tried to control the situation with manipulation," said North Star's attorney, Sheldon Wellins.
Ironically, there very likely would have been more of an outcry if these children had been convicted of crimes and sent to prison, where they would have had advocates, rules, rights.
-- Stephanie Kraft
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I've been talking to an educational consultant who suggested that I take my son to the Academy at Swift River on Christmas Day as a gift.
A friend of mine directed me to this website. and also said to mention the educational consultant (I don't know why).
I'm not sure what I'm supposed to say, though! LOL
Your Ed Con should check with ASR again because they wont take your child on Christmas day as a gift. Your child needs to be accepted first and be evaluated.
Shoot me off an email and I will fill you in. You wont get much support here.
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I've been talking to an educational consultant who suggested that I take my son to the Academy at Swift River on Christmas Day as a gift.
A friend of mine directed me to this website. and also said to mention the educational consultant (I don't know why).
I'm not sure what I'm supposed to say, though! LOL
::troll:: ::troll:: ::troll:: ::troll:: ::troll::
Idiots.
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My son just killed himself because I sent him to a program. I regret it now!
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I've been talking to an educational consultant who suggested that I take my son to the Academy at Swift River on Christmas Day as a gift.
A friend of mine directed me to this website. and also said to mention the educational consultant (I don't know why).
I'm not sure what I'm supposed to say, though! LOL
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Perhaps that "friend" might be sharing a toothbrush with TheWho?
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June of 06, I met a young man named Dan, who went to Swift River, at the International Cultic Studies Conference in Denver. He sat in on the session dealing with the troubled teen industry, and the cultic aspects of it. He was interested in what I had to say, as a parent who once sent my son to a similar place. He wondered how it is the parents justify it to themselves - how are they talked into it - Basically, what makes them so gullible and blind and heartless. I hope I was able to help him understand how it happens - I hope I was able to help him reach some level of forgiveness for his dad. I'd rather not meet your son there in the years to come, and try to help him understand why you were such a fool.
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Looks like he found the ASR thread.
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=300956#300956 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=300956#300956)
lol @ "most of".. couldn't stomach it, could ya daddy-o? :lol:
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FORNITS SAVES ANOTHER CHILD FROM PROGRAM HELL!
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I've been talking to an educational consultant who suggested that I take my son to the Academy at Swift River on Christmas Day as a gift.
A friend of mine directed me to this website. and also said to mention the educational consultant (I don't know why).
I'm not sure what I'm supposed to say, though! LOL
Your Ed Con should check with ASR again because they wont take your child on Christmas day as a gift. Your child needs to be accepted first and be evaluated.
Shoot me off an email and I will fill you in. You wont get much support here.
您是很愚笨的。您将浪废您的时刻å†
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June of 06, I met a young man named Dan, who went to Swift River, at the International Cultic Studies Conference in Denver. He sat in on the session dealing with the troubled teen industry, and the cultic aspects of it. He was interested in what I had to say, as a parent who once sent my son to a similar place. He wondered how it is the parents justify it to themselves - how are they talked into it - Basically, what makes them so gullible and blind and heartless. I hope I was able to help him understand how it happens - I hope I was able to help him reach some level of forgiveness for his dad. I'd rather not meet your son there in the years to come, and try to help him understand why you were such a fool.
His Dad isnt looking for forgiveness. Just seeing how well his son is doing is enough for any parent.
Unless you are a parent with a child in trouble, you will never understand why we would move a mountain to help them.
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MOve a mountain?
Why not just getting your parenting shit together and raise your kid properly. Outsourcing parenting is moving mountains? Paying strangers $150 a day to yell at your kid is therapy?
HOw to raise a kid properly? 75% of it is acting mature and practicing the concept of "treating others like you would want to be treated".
If the kid's got legitimate issues then he should be seen by a legitimate doctor/program.
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MOve a mountain?
Why not just getting your parenting shit together and raise your kid properly. Outsourcing parenting is moving mountains? Paying strangers $150 a day to yell at your kid is therapy?
HOw to raise a kid properly? 75% of it is acting mature and practicing the concept of "treating others like you would want to be treated".
If the kid's got legitimate issues then he should be seen by a legitimate doctor/program.
You have obviously never raised a child or had a teenager in crisis before. When your child needs help you will seek any resource nesseccary to help them.
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get the f&*^ off here WHO, we all know you sold your soul to the devil a long time ago.
Don't send your kid anywhere!!!! It will be worse than anything he could do to himself!!!!! Read some of the survivors stories, they speak for all survivors, some of us have lost our voice! Don't listen to the people trying to help, they have a financial interest, we don't. They may really believe their way is the only way but please make a decision based on Love not Fear! Good luck and really your kid will be fine .....eventually, just have a little faith! mustard seed!
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MOve a mountain?
Why not just getting your parenting shit together and raise your kid properly. Outsourcing parenting is moving mountains? Paying strangers $150 a day to yell at your kid is therapy?
HOw to raise a kid properly? 75% of it is acting mature and practicing the concept of "treating others like you would want to be treated".
If the kid's got legitimate issues then he should be seen by a legitimate doctor/program.
You have obviously never raised a child or had a teenager in crisis before. When your child needs help you will seek any resource nesseccary to help them.
You obviously should have got yourself fixed so you couldn't have children you miserable piece of horse manore! And not be allowed to adopt either!
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sending a child away to ASR on christmas is like putting a jew in a concentration camp on yom kippur.
it's sadistic and disgusting.
i'm glad you made the right decision by not sending him away.
instead...maybe take your son for some father-son time in the mountains skiing or something.
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sending a child away to ASR on christmas is like putting a jew in a concentration camp on yom kippur.
it's sadistic and disgusting.
i'm glad you made the right decision by not sending him away.
instead...maybe take your son for some father-son time in the mountains skiing or something.
Time skiing is good time spent with a child or any time spent away, one on one. TBS's should only be considered s a last resort.
...
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With the advent of ingrained usage of the internet, program complicity will be whittled down to the most irresponsible and abusive parents. Adults who really want to help kids will run screaming from the industry. and survivors pressing charges, criminal or civil will penalize the child tortuers into the ground.
The child abduction and torture industry is going the way of the dinaaur. Too late for the hundred of thousands of children murdered by them, though
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With the advent of ingrained usage of the internet, program complicity will be whittled down to the most irresponsible and abusive parents. Adults who really want to help kids will run screaming from the industry. and survivors pressing charges, criminal or civil will penalize the child tortuers into the ground.
The child abduction and torture industry is going the way of the dinaaur. Too late for the hundred of thousands of children murdered by them, though
Parents will continue to care for their kids and seek help for them outside the home when all other options are exhausted. This has been happening since the beginning of time, whether it be Sending them to Aunt Marths farm or to a TBS.
Parents will continue seek help for them long after we are all gone.
You may need to be a parent to fully understand this.
...
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How would you know what a parent thinks, Who? You threw your daughter away to ASR, so you don't have the right to call yourself that anymore, and your continued use of the word is a heavy insult to the real parents reading this forum.
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How would you know what a parent thinks, Who? You threw your daughter away to ASR, so you don't have the right to call yourself that anymore, and your continued use of the word is a heavy insult to the real parents reading this forum.
Kinda like the rest of you calling yourself survivors. Surviving what? A cush stay at RTC? Its an insult to people who actually survived something.
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I was abducted from my home, systematically sexually abused, worked as a slave, subjected to 6 hour a day peer denouncement sessions-public degradation-the sort practiced by the Chinese in thought reform prisons, not allowed to move unless another child gave me permission and then only with another 2 children holding me. These adolescents also had the authority to beat me whenever they felt i broke a rule, and they beat other children within inches of their lives. Other times you could be put in isolation, which had no time limit and went on as far as i know up to 6 months. You could also have your right to speak removed, which also had no time limit. Public forced nudity was another punishment. Adolescents forcibly bathed other adolescents. Kids became sick and weren’t allowed medical treatment. If you wanted not to be tortured, you had to torture other kids. Adolescents decided if you were “saneâ€
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How would you know what a parent thinks, Who? You threw your daughter away to ASR, so you don't have the right to call yourself that anymore, and your continued use of the word is a heavy insult to the real parents reading this forum.
who's never had a daughter anywhere. He's an industry shill doing damage control. Either that, or he's a very, very sad man, who spends the majority of his life in an internet forum for kids who've been abducted tortuered, and driven to madness trying to invalidate their experiences, and point out how the murder of children in programs is not the torture cults' fault
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There was this guy that use to post here from HLA. I believe he went by the name RobertBruce and also went by the name Devon. Anyway he spent about 6 weeks in HLA before leaving and use to cry all over the board here about being abused. When people would ask what happened he would say he had to clean up the field or there wasn’t any salt on the table during meal time, forced to get up early etc. He referred to this as torture and incarceration.
This is an insult to people who were truly abused in life. So if people say they were abused by a TBS parents need to remember the definition can mean having their cell phone taken away.
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I was abducted from my home, systematically sexually abused, worked as a slave, subjected to 6 hour a day peer denouncement sessions-public degradation-the sort practiced by the Chinese in thought reform prisons, not allowed to move unless another child gave me permission and then only with another 2 children holding me. These adolescents also had the authority to beat me whenever they felt i broke a rule, and they beat other children within inches of their lives. Other times you could be put in isolation, which had no time limit and went on as far as i know up to 6 months. You could also have your right to speak removed, which also had no time limit. Public forced nudity was another punishment. Adolescents forcibly bathed other adolescents. Kids became sick and weren’t allowed medical treatment. If you wanted not to be tortured, you had to torture other kids. Adolescents decided if you were “saneâ€
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who, don't you think we can recognize it's you. Why don't you log in
Maybe if you logged in you could set an example for him?
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i chose to reamain anon to protect my privacy, and because of psych issues related to my torture.
Who has no problem logging in. He logs out only so he can make the "ha,ha,ha you're lying" comments, he knows sounds odious to potential non-involved parties.
And you don't appear any better. Contiue to work agasint the human abduction and tortuer industry because you cannot hide your odiousness.
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i chose to reamain anon to protect my privacy, and because of psych issues related to my torture.
Who has no problem logging in. He logs out only so he can make the "ha,ha,ha you're lying" comments, he knows sounds odious to potential non-involved parties.
And you don't appear any better. Contiue to work agasint the human abduction and tortuer industry because you cannot hide your odiousness.
Well if you can post anon so can he. At least he logs in once in awhile so we know it is him. You sound a little screwed up.
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I was abducted from my home, systematically sexually abused, worked as a slave, subjected to 6 hour a day peer denouncement sessions-public degradation-the sort practiced by the Chinese in thought reform prisons, not allowed to move unless another child gave me permission and then only with another 2 children holding me. These adolescents also had the authority to beat me whenever they felt i broke a rule, and they beat other children within inches of their lives. Other times you could be put in isolation, which had no time limit and went on as far as i know up to 6 months. You could also have your right to speak removed, which also had no time limit. Public forced nudity was another punishment. Adolescents forcibly bathed other adolescents. Kids became sick and weren’t allowed medical treatment. If you wanted not to be tortured, you had to torture other kids. Adolescents decided if you were “saneâ€
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Yeah some kids are just pussies,
Hey, screw you buddy. The kids that go to these places are decent kids that just need to get their head straight. You may think you are some type of tough guy but you are probably the pussy in the long run.
most of these kids do a ton of hard work before they graduate a lot more than you are willing to do remaining anon. Most of these kids turn out to be decent adults after they leave.
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:rofl:
You're not doing a very good job of keeping yourself hidden, Supertroll. Seriously, go try ST.
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Yah, deliberately misinterpreting me, huh? You're a sickening troll living out your cult "dishonesty to the outside world for a higher cause" imperative.
My point was, asswipe, that YOU called Robert Bruce a wimp for describing abuse. Apparently, he was such a wimp that the state stepped in and penalized HLA, and they are paying out a settlement in a lawsuit.
I’m commenting on the fact that abuse is discounted as “not abuseâ€
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FORNITS SAVES ANOTHER CHILD FROM PROGRAM HELL!
YES!!!
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Concerned dad. The Who. Etc.
Swift River; Tranquility Bay; Mount Bachelor Academy.
Is this an actual conversation between real people or did I just stumble into a War of the Worlds fake radio broadcast where only HG Wells knows its a story and every listener is scared shitless.
Oh yeah, no, Its not fake Concerned Dad, and thank god hopefully you've been reading some of these other people because, and hopefully you can tell from my writing style I'm not them; now I am going to weigh in.
I was 18 when Swift River started in 96ish. I know the people who started it. Some of them were my counsellors?. I also know the concepts that they teach there, and while abuse may or may not be the correct word for everyone's experience; Brainwashing is. As is neglect, being forced to work, putting someone (i'm not even going to say kid because I've thought of myself basically as an adult since i was not one and think they should have a say regardless of their age) in a position of hopelessness of escape because the consequences actually would be REAL abuse somewhere worse. Sub-standard food for 5 grand a month (except on parents weekend).
Hang on, I'm getting too cosmic here. Simply this. I've been to jail several times since graduating from 'high school.' For dumb shit, freight train hopping, pot, drunk in public, etc. I would rather have spent high school in jail than at that school. At least in jail I wouldn't still be writing in a place like this to you 12 years after it happened urging you to tell them to go fuck themselves and there school. I've served honorably in the military since the school (the adult military). Um, yeah, the military was an absolute fucking joke compared to the hell of that school. And mine wasn't even that bad.
And I'm not talking about some crazy lock down or Juvy type thing. I am actually talking about no shit, a school exactly like Swift River. Exactly; the same people. Its actually a very specialized trade that not very many people are good at, so they get the same people to start up more and more of these places. Not many people are qualified to start them up becasue to be qualified to be an effective counselor, you have to go through it.
And 99% of the people after they go through it say, fuck no, I would never want to work there. I hate that place and everything it put me through and I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy (i guess yeah; definition of geneva conventions torture, no?). Just occured to me. Am writing off the cuff here.
The other one percent or so become teachers, etc. there. I beleive that it fucked with them in such a way that casued them to not be able to let it go and instead of going out in the real world and moving on, for whatever reason have decided to stay in the safety of the hell they've grown used too and put others through it.
Other graduates handle it other ways. I have friends I graduated with that have friends that are recluses, locking themselves up in their houses with severe anxiety, stomach problems and ulcers. Others are not living anymore. Some are living normal lives. The thing is though, I don't know anyone who talks a whole lot about high school, beleive me. Its not something any of us like to remember.
Don't get me wrong. I honestly do think some of the counselors truly beleive and want the best for your kids. Yes, in fact actually care a lot. Yeah, crazy huh? Doesn't sound like the normal fornit poster type resentful axe to grind type statement. You'll think the exact same thing when you meet with them, on the level people, open, straightforward, and honest. Seem to really care.
And then you'll talk to some current students. Again, wow, these kids really have a light in their eyes. They're going somewhere. They honestly get it. And they are not lying to you at that time either.
I'll tell you what though. Talk to any one of them after they get out and go on with life in the real world and see if that light is still there. Its FAKE. It works in the woods, when your washed and don't know any better. But not in life. Good plan, just doesn't work.
No zealot like a convert huh? Not just a catchy saying though, its true; for a while; till they rebel again against it like a mother fucker. A thousand times worse than they would have before having never been fORCED TO GO THROUGH IT. If they live through this period, then they don't want to talk about high school anymore. Understand?
In summation, I don't think I've been clear and helped a whole lot, but, I have a four year old little girl now (almost 5). I would fucking kill somebody if this was being considered for her. I mean fucking freak out. So for what its worth, thats that.
Do what you think is best..., and I say that with the utmost love and concern; and its love that is real; not fleeting; I am compassionate if anything.
Peace...
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friends that are recluses, locking themselves up in their houses with severe anxiety, stomach problems and ulcers.
god damn. that sums up my current state of being perfectly. seems like it's epidemic among kids who went through these schools, as i know alot of other people who have become like that too.
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Remeber to consider the source when reading here.
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Yes, like this source:
I was abducted from my home, systematically sexually abused, worked as a slave, subjected to 6 hour a day peer denouncement sessions-public degradation-the sort practiced by the Chinese in thought reform prisons, not allowed to move unless another child gave me permission and then only with another 2 children holding me. These adolescents also had the authority to beat me whenever they felt i broke a rule, and they beat other children within inches of their lives. Other times you could be put in isolation, which had no time limit and went on as far as i know up to 6 months. You could also have your right to speak removed, which also had no time limit. Public forced nudity was another punishment. Adolescents forcibly bathed other adolescents. Kids became sick and weren’t allowed medical treatment. If you wanted not to be tortured, you had to torture other kids. Adolescents decided if you were “saneâ€
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No, like this source:
I was abducted from my home, systematically sexually abused, worked as a slave, subjected to 6 hour a day peer denouncement sessions-public degradation-the sort practiced by the Chinese in thought reform prisons, not allowed to move unless another child gave me permission and then only with another 2 children holding me. These adolescents also had the authority to beat me whenever they felt i broke a rule, and they beat other children within inches of their lives. Other times you could be put in isolation, which had no time limit and went on as far as i know up to 6 months. You could also have your right to speak removed, which also had no time limit. Public forced nudity was another punishment. Adolescents forcibly bathed other adolescents. Kids became sick and weren’t allowed medical treatment. If you wanted not to be tortured, you had to torture other kids. Adolescents decided if you were “saneâ€
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No, like this source:
I was abducted from my home, systematically sexually abused, worked as a slave, subjected to 6 hour a day peer denouncement sessions-public degradation-the sort practiced by the Chinese in thought reform prisons, not allowed to move unless another child gave me permission and then only with another 2 children holding me. These adolescents also had the authority to beat me whenever they felt i broke a rule, and they beat other children within inches of their lives. Other times you could be put in isolation, which had no time limit and went on as far as i know up to 6 months. You could also have your right to speak removed, which also had no time limit. Public forced nudity was another punishment. Adolescents forcibly bathed other adolescents. Kids became sick and weren’t allowed medical treatment. If you wanted not to be tortured, you had to torture other kids. Adolescents decided if you were “saneâ€
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I was abducted from my home, systematically sexually abused, worked as a slave, subjected to 6 hour a day peer denouncement sessions-public degradation-the sort practiced by the Chinese in thought reform prisons, not allowed to move unless another child gave me permission and then only with another 2 children holding me. These adolescents also had the authority to beat me whenever they felt i broke a rule, and they beat other children within inches of their lives. Other times you could be put in isolation, which had no time limit and went on as far as i know up to 6 months. You could also have your right to speak removed, which also had no time limit. Public forced nudity was another punishment. Adolescents forcibly bathed other adolescents. Kids became sick and weren’t allowed medical treatment. If you wanted not to be tortured, you had to torture other kids. Adolescents decided if you were “saneâ€
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I was abducted from my home, systematically sexually abused, worked as a slave, subjected to 6 hour a day peer denouncement sessions-public degradation-the sort practiced by the Chinese in thought reform prisons, not allowed to move unless another child gave me permission and then only with another 2 children holding me. These adolescents also had the authority to beat me whenever they felt i broke a rule, and they beat other children within inches of their lives. Other times you could be put in isolation, which had no time limit and went on as far as i know up to 6 months. You could also have your right to speak removed, which also had no time limit. Public forced nudity was another punishment. Adolescents forcibly bathed other adolescents. Kids became sick and weren’t allowed medical treatment. If you wanted not to be tortured, you had to torture other kids. Adolescents decided if you were “saneâ€
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I was abducted from my home,
I wasn't abducted but I was forcibly taken by my parents.
systematically sexually abused,
Happened to me.
worked as a slave
,
Happened to me.
subjected to 6 hour a day peer denouncement sessions-public degradation-the sort practiced by the Chinese in thought reform prisons,
Happened to me, except mine were about 12 - 16 hours per day.
not allowed to move unless another child gave me permission and then only with another 2 children holding me.
Happened to me.
These adolescents also had the authority to beat me whenever they felt i broke a rule, and they beat other children within inches of their lives.
Happened to me.
Other times you could be put in isolation, which had no time limit and went on as far as i know up to 6 months.
Didn't happen to me, but I witnessed it happen to countless other kids that were in with me.
You could also have your right to speak removed, which also had no time limit.
Happened to me.
Public forced nudity was another punishment. Adolescents forcibly bathed other adolescents.
Saw it happen to about half a dozen kids during my stay.
Kids became sick and weren’t allowed medical treatment.
Happened to me countless times.
If you wanted not to be tortured, you had to torture other kids.
Yep, that's part of the "therapeutic community" and "positive peer pressure" method of mindfuckery.
Adolescents decided if you were “saneâ€
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Damn! Tried to catch it. The above was me.
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Here Who..... I take it you already forgot about reading this article that I posted on another thread.
Abuse does happen still today in programs and probably always will. It happened decades ago and so set the pattern and trend for the torture warehouses for teens that exist still to this day.
So here is to you and your effort to cover up for the "Naked Avenger" incident that happened at "Growing Together"
Below is the article for anyone who wants to see the ugly truth.
http://www.browardpalmbeach.com/2004-12 ... -together/ (http://www.browardpalmbeach.com/2004-12-09/news/suffering-together/)
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Look you guys must be really desperate to get peoples attention. But anyone reading this knows that if a kid was kidnapped or abducted and placed into slavery and sexually abused AND the captors let you go AND you lived to talk about it this would become one of the most sensational stories of the century. This would pale against the Charles Manson story in a heart beat.
Sorry, I just dont buy it and I dont think anyone else will either.
...
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Look you guys must be really desperate to get peoples attention. But anyone reading this knows that if a kid was kidnapped or abducted and placed into slavery and sexually abused AND the captors let you go AND you lived to talk about it this would become one of the most sensational stories of the century. This would pale against the Charles Manson story in a heart beat.
Sorry, I just dont buy it and I dont think anyone else will either.
...
Are you calling me a liar?
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So you didn't read the above article, then? Figures. It's all in cold print - sex abuse, neglect and the program. I guess TheWho just doesn't want to know the truth.
If he did, maybe his own child would speak to him, but she doesn't. I suppose she tried to tell him about the way she was sexually/psychologically/physically/emotionally abused at ASR, but he kept calling her a "liar" until she decided she had enough of TheWho and cut him off entirely.
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it's not only completely true it continues to happen b/c ppl like the who refuse to believe the children. we have nothing to gain by our stories at this point in our lives. there is no reason to lie, we speak now because we found our voice after 20 odd yrs of shame and silence. we were told we were lying then and you have the balls to call us liars now...after we have been through so much.. the who is a pysociopath similar to what we knew in the program. we after all these years fially realized it was not our fault and what was done to us is a crime and we don't want anyone else to suffer..thats the bottom line b/c most all the crimes commited against us will go unpunished, it doesnt mean they were any less of a crime or that they didn't happen at all?!?!
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it's not only completely true it continues to happen b/c ppl like the who refuse to believe the children. we have nothing to gain by our stories at this point in our lives. there is no reason to lie, we speak now because we found our voice after 20 odd yrs of shame and silence. we were told we were lying then and you have the balls to call us liars now...after we have been through so much.. the who is a pysociopath similar to what we knew in the program. we after all these years fially realized it was not our fault and what was done to us is a crime and we don't want anyone else to suffer..thats the bottom line b/c most all the crimes commited against us will go unpunished, it doesnt mean they were any less of a crime or that they didn't happen at all?!?!
Well said.... :tup: :tup: :tup:
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Look you guys must be really desperate to get peoples attention. But anyone reading this knows that if a kid was kidnapped or abducted and placed into slavery and sexually abused AND the captors let you go AND you lived to talk about it this would become one of the most sensational stories of the century. This would pale against the Charles Manson story in a heart beat.
Sorry, I just dont buy it and I dont think anyone else will either.
...
Because you refuse to look at anything. You take things out of context, twist them, outright lie and otherwise completely make an ass out of yourself.
I wasn't bought and sold like Kizzy, it wasn't Chinese Water Torture, I wasn't gang raped and I wasn't personally beaten. BUT.....I was bought for an initial fee of a couple of thousand dollars then monthly installments of $______ (I'm still trying to figure out how much money my parents paid). I was required to do "speaking engagements" in promotion of Straight for at least a year. I worked in the thrift store with proceeds going to Straight and never saw a dime.
No Chinese Water Torture but Straight did study the effects of and use extremely liberally....sleep deprivation, isolation from the outside world and intense peer culture pressure that the Chinese and Koreans had developed for the re-education of the American prisoners that they held captive. They combined that with the therapeutic communities that Synanon started, most notably "The Game" ("raps" at Straight.... LGATs, Discovery Seminars at other places.).
I wasn't raped but I was forced to listen to some of the most explicit sexual experiences that I had no idea of at that age. I was expected to come up with something equally as degrading and if I didn't, I was called the most vulgar names imaginable for hours on end, day after day. They told me that they were "throwing my past up in my face" so that I would "realize how far down I had gone". At the end of these marathon sessions after I would sit down the whole group and staff would yell, "Love ya Anne" in unison. I wanted to throw up every time. I wasn't raped, but when I spoke of being sexually abused when I was 7, I was told to focus on what I[/b] did to cause or contribute to the situation. I know of two girls who were raped during the time I was there.
I wasn't beaten (physically at least) because I was too scared to step out of line, but I saw countless people get slammed to the floor (staff called it "restraining" them...ya know, for their own good :roll: ) for not having their feet flat on the floor (hey, a rule is a rule right?). I wasn't beaten, but I saw countless kids spend weeks in the "time out room" being bounced off walls for 12 hours a day or more. I wasn't beaten physically but I was expected to function on 2-3 hours of sleep a day, if we were lucky. Push out enough tears in the "past" part of the rap (1 of about 6 during the day) not to trigger a confrontation for "being out of touch". Try to keep my eyelids from drooping so not to trigger a confrontation for "something going on" because I had dark circles under my eyes. I wasn't beaten but I was put on a peanut butter diet for about 3 1/2 weeks at a time where I had two pieces of white bread with a slab on peanut butter on it and a dixie cup of water 3 times a day, nothing else. I wasn't beaten but the stress did manage to completely and fully stop my menstruation for the entire 23 months that I was there. It happened to every single other girl in there too. My doctor (years after I got out) was horrified. She couldn't imagine the amount of physical and emotional stress it would take to stop a group of about 175 girls from having their periods..
Tell me again how I wasn't tortured asshole.
(http://http://www.edwardmitterrand.com/artists/Slow%20Burn/Images/Phelan_FuckYou_72dpi_20cm.jpg)
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When are we going to ban this agent provocateur??
AB - get on yim more. We gotta plan hitting some programs on the mainland! Lets put him out of a job, shall we?
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TheWho, I wish you would stop posting things that anger this particular druggie, as she will continue expounding like this, which amounts to bad publicity for SIBS.
Anyway Who, you seem to be talented at making an ass out of yourself (e.g. your so-called "statistics" that these fornits druggies so easily refute; I find this downright ridiculous), and consequently casting a negative light on serious-minded folks in the industry (like myself) who are busy making a difference and getting these kids off drugs..
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I was put in a straight spin off on the 21st of Dec. I still get nervous when the 21st of every month rolls around. I think something really bad is going to happen. What a Christmas present, it's the gift thAT KEEPS ON GIVING...SOMEONE MAKE IT STOP AND GET THE WHO OFF HERE ITS TORTURE APON TORTURE
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TheWho, I wish you would stop posting things that anger this particular druggie, as she will continue expounding like this, which amounts to bad publicity for SIBS.
Anyway Who, you seem to be talented at making an ass out of yourself (e.g. your so-called "statistics" that these fornits druggies so easily refute; I find this downright ridiculous), and consequently casting a negative light on serious-minded folks in the industry (like myself) who are busy making a difference and getting these kids off drugs..
Hey Dr Fuctard........ Do you think you can accommodate TheWho at S.I.B.S.???? We here at Fornits feel that if we don't get him some help something bad is going to happen. If need be we don't mind getting him court ordered.
Can you please help[/color] ..... He may die if you don't take him in... We would not want to see him in jails, institutions, or dead.
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and please dont call me a druggie that really makes my PTSD flare..i never did drugs before i was kidnapped into a cult..thanks idiot parents and child advocates..Jean Eitel was my gardian adlitem and suppose to has the childs interest in mind when making recommendations..she suggested I go into a straight spin off for 2 yrs never to see the light of day b/c i just turned 15 and had an attitude b/c my parent divorced and I didnt like the bitch my dad chose to be my step monster...guess I was right...assholes fuckin idiot of a dad looser of a sysem that viewed me with such disrespect and condemned me to a life of PTSD....Do you have any idea what its like to live life with ptsd...the stress of the smalles things send youb/c its been to much trama as a child and time is suppose to filter it abd what doesnt kill you makes you stronger...what a lie just another lie
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I was put in a straight spin off on the 21st of Dec. I still get nervous when the 21st of every month rolls around. I think something really bad is going to happen. What a Christmas present, it's the gift thAT KEEPS ON GIVING...SOMEONE MAKE IT STOP AND GET THE WHO OFF HERE ITS TORTURE APON TORTURE
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I was put in a straight spin off on the 21st of Dec. I still get nervous when the 21st of every month rolls around. I think something really bad is going to happen. What a Christmas present, it's the gift thAT KEEPS ON GIVING...SOMEONE MAKE IT STOP AND GET THE WHO OFF HERE ITS TORTURE APON TORTURE
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TheWho, I wish you would stop posting things that anger this particular druggie, as she will continue expounding like this, which amounts to bad publicity for SIBS.
Anyway Who, you seem to be talented at making an ass out of yourself (e.g. your so-called "statistics" that these fornits druggies so easily refute; I find this downright ridiculous), and consequently casting a negative light on serious-minded folks in the industry (like myself) who are busy making a difference and getting these kids off drugs..
Hey Dr Fuctard........ Do you think you can accommodate TheWho at S.I.B.S.???? We here at Fornits feel that if we don't get him some help something bad is going to happen. If need be we don't mind getting him court ordered.
Can you please help[/color] ..... He may die if you don't take him in... We would not want to see him in jails, institutions, or dead.
Ah hell..... I'll be honest...
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and take your money and damage your child for the rest of his/her life
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Ah hell..... I'll be honest...
:rofl:
He thinks that's bs too, but we really WERE in a warehouse!!!!
Botched, where'd you do time?
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Ah hell..... I'll be honest...
:rofl:
He thinks that's bs too, but we really WERE in a warehouse!!!!
Botched, where'd you do time?
See, there she goes again... since Anne was in a warehouse then she thinks everyone is in a warehouse..... it doesnt happen everywhere Anne!! The rest of the world is different than the way you view it. There are other places and other experiences.
..
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it's not only completely true it continues to happen b/c ppl like the who refuse to believe the children. we have nothing to gain by our stories at this point in our lives. there is no reason to lie, we speak now because we found our voice after 20 odd yrs of shame and silence. we were told we were lying then and you have the balls to call us liars now...after we have been through so much.. the who is a pysociopath similar to what we knew in the program. we after all these years fially realized it was not our fault and what was done to us is a crime and we don't want anyone else to suffer..thats the bottom line b/c most all the crimes commited against us will go unpunished, it doesnt mean they were any less of a crime or that they didn't happen at all?!?!
I am not saying anyone is lying about their experiences (except a few stories where people claim they were kidnapped into sex slavery and such). I am aware of the problems with straight and those programs, most of which I believe have been shut down.
I am focusing on the TBS’s that are open today. If someone is abused lets name the school and get them to implement corrective action and if they don’t lets go after them. But to imply that all schools are the same as straight from the 70’s is a lie. I am sure you want to expose lies yourself and so do I that’s why I say what I do. You people should step up and be honest and talk about some of the improvements made instead of misleading parents. Celebrate and talk openly that there are no schools that take kids for 5 years (maybe there are some, but name them and steer parents away)
My main objective is to help these parents and the kids, it doesn’t do anyone any good to lie to them and tell them their kids are going to be sold into slavery for sex. I think stories like that do fornits more harm than good because parents will see that as very bizarre and leave. Many TBS’s dont restrain at all, I don’t know of any that have a store that you work at for free, most don’t have the kids live with host families, the schools don’t make you live on white bread for months on end, the schools don’t beat you.
You want people to believe you and your stories but you have to be honest with everyone. If a child is raped in a boot camp It doesn’t mean every child is being raped throughout the entire mental health industry.
I hear stories about myself and my daughter from many frequent posters which I know to be lies, so why should I believe everything you say? When do I know you are telling the truth? If you want to be seen as truthful, then tell the truth all the time, otherwise you lose credibility with people.
...
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so what if it was a warehouse or a building or a hotel or a tent the toture was still the same!!!!...the who is a sidetracking retard
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See, there she goes again... since Anne was in a warehouse then she thinks everyone is in a warehouse..... it doesnt happen everywhere Anne!! The rest of the world is different than the way you view it. There are other places and other experiences.
..
No, there YOU go again. I said I was in a warehouse.....anyone who was in the Gandy bulding in Straight was in a warehouse. I have no idea about anyone else. Seems like they accomplish their isolation by being out in the boonies. Straight was smack dab in suburbia so the only way to isolate the way they needed to was to use an actual warehouse. Before they build the Gandy building they were in an old yacht construction warehouse.
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Botched, where'd you do time?
I was in Straight Atlanta 82-84 and it was an old A&P grocery store that had been converted. ( So a warehouse basicly)
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e]
I am not saying anyone is lying about their experiences (except a few stories where people claim they were kidnapped into sex slavery and such).
See, that's what you do.. No one....NO ONE said they were "kidnapped into sex slavery"....especially in the sense that you mean it. When people talk of being kidnapped, they're talking of the escorts that wake them up at 2am, put them in handcuffs and cart them off to some camp with under/unqualified staff and use questionable AT BEST "treatment" methods.
No one said they were a "sex slave". They said they were basically slaves (the unpaid labor) and that they were sexually abused.
Give it up ya freak.
:roll:
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ot doent do the parents any good to tell them that without your services their child will be dead in jail or institutionalized...you play on fear and reject the nature of a teenager...leave it be...time will pass and all will be well only if you dont freak out and damage your child for life...i was sent to a program and I will never speak to my dad or stepmonster again its been 20 yrs and I wont even be at their funeral cause they are already dead to me so parents if you never want to see you grandchildren send them away to be tortured
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MOve a mountain?
Why not just getting your parenting shit together and raise your kid properly. Outsourcing parenting is moving mountains? Paying strangers $150 a day to yell at your kid is therapy?
HOw to raise a kid properly? 75% of it is acting mature and practicing the concept of "treating others like you would want to be treated".
If the kid's got legitimate issues then he should be seen by a legitimate doctor/program.
You have obviously never raised a child or had a teenager in crisis before. When your child needs help you will seek any resource nesseccary to help them.
No, I haven't raised a child. When I do have a kid I'm going to do it right. I'm sure as hell not going to wait until the genie is out of the bottle and pay someone else $150 a day to do my job.
TBS's are not help. They are profit driven, incestuous, kool aid dispensers.
Don't presume to tell me I don't know what I'm talking about. I graduated from RMA in 1990. I was a golden child there. I followed every rule. Gave 110% of myself to that place every day. 17 years later I'm looking back and recognize it was the biggest developmental detour possible. You probably picture me as some dungeon dweller huffing paint. But the truth is I'll go toe to toe with you on with any yardstick of morality, experience or success. I'll guarantee that you come up short. That's the part that gets me fired up. You think people like me are the enemy when I'm really the best ally you have. It's crystal fucking clear that you're bought the TBS sales pitch hook line and sinker. One day you'll snap out of it and ask yourself why you paid $50k a year to shut the barn door after all the cows got out.
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My main objective is to help these parents and the kids, it doesn’t do anyone any good to lie to them and tell them their kids are going to be sold into slavery for sex. I think stories like that do fornits more harm than good because parents will see that as very bizarre and leave. Many TBS’s dont restrain at all, I don’t know of any that have a store that you work at for free, most don’t have the kids live with host families, the schools don’t make you live on white bread for months on end, the schools don’t beat you.
...
ASR had at one stage a store that dave marcus spoke of the kids working in like a sort of kiosk. Tell us how much did they pay the kids to work there when your daughter was there? Places like turn about ranch also work on the premise that working as a Jackaroo or farm hand teaches kids a work ethic. They get the fruits of the kids labour without having to pay them.
You also mention that most schools dont have kids for 5 years but several kids have mentioned going to a variety of schools and having it add up to 4 or 5 years of their life. Are you suggesting that this is a lie?
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They said they were basically slaves (the unpaid labor) and that they were sexually abused.
Give it up ya freak.
:roll:
I know for me that once I reached 3rd phase I had to work as a volunteer at the Cobb County Head Start that was across the street from the Straight location I was in until I could get a regular job, however you were not allowed to get out and do a job search like a normal person.
I'm pretty sure that the local dad's that owned their own business were able to recruit from within and pay petty amounts to the kids.
Don't get me wrong, I was just grateful for the amounts of time I was able to stay the hell away from the center. If I was told that I had to shovel shit to not go in, believe me I would have been a shit shoveling fool.
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Botched, where'd you do time?
I was in Straight Atlanta 82-84 and it was an old A&P grocery store that had been converted. ( So a warehouse basicly)
They just converted an old warehouse into condos in East Boston. A one bedroom starts at $750,000.. I wouldnt say staying there would be abusive and the buyers probably dont feel they have been warehoused or abused.
...
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Botched, where'd you do time?
I was in Straight Atlanta 82-84 and it was an old A&P grocery store that had been converted. ( So a warehouse basicly)
They just converted an old warehouse into condos in East Boston. A one bedroom starts at $750,000.. I wouldnt say staying there would be abusive and the buyers probably dont feel they have been warehoused or abused.
Posts like that make me think you just might be TSW trolling. You know good and goddamn well what we're talking about. Go ahead and make yourself look even more cruel than you already have.
::noway::
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They just converted an old warehouse into condos in East Boston. A one bedroom starts at $750,000.. I wouldnt say staying there would be abusive and the buyers probably dont feel they have been warehoused or abused.
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Why do you always try to twist things to try to derail the point that we are driving. The buildings are not like happy little condos that you used as a comparison.
In your little condo scenario, the buyers are looking at it being a home, not a place to come and be abused on a daily basis because that's what is was like for us. And yes I did say abused because verbal abuse is abuse. (PERIOD)
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So would you find the following list typical of the TBS’s of today? Would you tell parents this is what they should expect?:
1) They will be systematically sexually abuse
2) They will be worked as a slave,
3) Subject the kids to 6 hour a day peer denouncement sessions-public degradation-the sort practiced by the Chinese in thought reform prisons.
4) The children will not be allowed to move unless another child gave me permission and then only with another 2 children holding me.
5) The adolescents will have the authority to beat your child whenever they feel they break a rule.
6) They beat children within inches of their lives.
7) They could be put in isolation for up to 6 months.
8) They could also have their right to speak removed, which also had no time limit.
9) Public forced nudity was another punishment.
10) Adolescents will forcibly bathed other adolescents.
11) Kids became sick and weren’t allowed medical treatment.
12) If your child wants to avoid being tortured, they have to torture other kids.
13) Adolescents decided if you were “saneâ€
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WHO
1. Thanks for not replying to my email.
2. Please explain me. A model CEDU graduate that 17 years later is calling a spade a spade.
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WHO
1. Thanks for not replying to my email.
2. Please explain me. A model CEDU graduate that 17 years later is calling a spade a spade.
I just checked my inbox, I did not receive it. I sent a test email to myself (just now) from fornits and it is working fine, at least today it is.
I am sorry I dont know what the second question means.
...
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You seem to have an explanation for everything.
I'd like you to explain the fact that 17 years later, I'm calling bullshit on my 'model CEDU student' experience. Please choose your answer below and show your work.
1. I'm correct because_______________(fill in the blank)__________.
2. I'm wrong because_______________(fill in the blank)__________.
3. I'm 1/2 right because CEDU was bad in 1990 and now there are plenty of good schools. (Gee, that ad-hoc, 'profit preservation' logic sounds strangely familiar?)
4. I'm crazy just because my dog taught me how to cook rice.
I sent you this email last week....
What is ASR? Suws is a short wildneress program right? Did your daughter graduate? Has she ever shared her negative experiences with you in detail?
Did you use an educational consultant?
Have you made a list of good schools? What do you think differentiates the good from the bad?
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So would you find the following list typical of the TBS’s of today? Would you tell parents this is what they should expect?:
1) They will be systematically sexually abuse
There's a good chance they'll be exposed to hours long confessionals that include highly graphic descriptions of sexual activities. There's a good chance that they'll be expected to relate the same, especially if the parents have informed the 'school' that the kid is sexually active.
And yes, there's a good chance that they'll experience the generic sort of sexual abuse that you so flippantly refer to
2) They will be worked as a slave,
Yep. I was whored out as a propaganda tool for Straight. Others are tasked with repairing or building onto the facility they're in...busy work (digging meaningless holes...moving boulders from here to there for no purpose)
3) Subject the kids to 6 hour a day peer denouncement sessions-public degradation-the sort practiced by the Chinese in thought reform prisons.
Ah...yep. Albeit some better disguised as a 'kinder, gentler' version...but yep.
4) The children will not be allowed to move unless another child gave me permission and then only with another 2 children holding me.
Depending on the facility, yes. Some use emotional and psychological blackmail to keep their charges in line.
5) The adolescents will have the authority to beat your child whenever they feel they break a rule.
They may not have explicit authority, but its usually overlooked. Like a 'code red' in A Few Good Men
6) They beat children within inches of their lives.
And sometimes beyond.
7) They could be put in isolation for up to 6 months.
Tranquility Bay.
8) They could also have their right to speak removed, which also had no time limit.
Yep
9) Public forced nudity was another punishment.
Yep. It happened in Straight sometimes. Never saw it co-ed, but definitely in a single sex situation. Shit, girls were routinely mocked and harassed if they weren't "applying their program". And it was all out of "looooooove".
:roll: :roll:
10) Adolescents will forcibly bathed other adolescents.
Yep...if a kid refuses to bathe many times they will forcibly BE bathed.
11) Kids became sick and weren’t allowed medical treatment.
All the damn time!!!!!
12) If your child wants to avoid being tortured, they have to torture other kids.
Yep. this is a virtual guarantee but they just don't know they're doing it. They become what they are surrounded by. The abused becomes the abuser. In Straight it was called "being strong" with someone. "Holding them accountable". What it amounts to is turning every kid into a paranoid freak, afraid to be 'reported' for unseemly behavior for fear of a setback. Then you have conformity. Then you get the "child creature" in my quote.
13) Adolescents decided if you were “saneâ€
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You seem to have an explanation for everything.
Hey, not very nice
What is ASR?
Academy at Swift River
Suws is a short wildneress program right?
Yes
Did your daughter graduate?
Yes
Has she ever shared her negative experiences with you in detail?
Well, we have spoken about it quite a bit and she shares her experiences with me. I ask a lot of questions especially after what I have read about here on fornits. I ask her about counselors that she liked and ones she didn’t and why. Has she ever seen anyone severely punished or had food withheld, put into restraints or placed in isolation, forced to disrobe in front of the other students etc. and she looks at me like I have two heads. ASR wasn’t anything even close to what people on here talk about. She enjoys talking about and wonders how some of her friends would have turned out if they had gone there also.
Did you use an educational consultant?
No, I have a family member who specializes in child psychology and children’s issues, is a fellow at Harvard University and he recommended ASR.
Have you made a list of good schools?
No I haven’t
What do you think differentiates the good from the bad?
Wow, I am really not qualified to speak technically about the differences. But I would say the model the school employs. If the school is taking a clinical approach, is listening to the feedback from the graduates and parents and are willing to adjust their rules and make changes based on parental feedback and to continuously evolve then this would be a school I would want to send my child to and would recommend to others.
I would not recommend a school who had guards who beat the kids, placed kids in restraints, forced them to walk around naked, with held food etc. I would not consider these at all for anyone. These schools are a good candidate for regulation.
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So would you find the following list typical of the TBS’s of today? Would you tell parents this is what they should expect?:
1) They will be systematically sexually abuse
2) They will be worked as a slave,
3) Subject the kids to 6 hour a day peer denouncement sessions-public degradation-the sort practiced by the Chinese in thought reform prisons.
4) The children will not be allowed to move unless another child gave me permission and then only with another 2 children holding me.
5) The adolescents will have the authority to beat your child whenever they feel they break a rule.
6) They beat children within inches of their lives.
7) They could be put in isolation for up to 6 months.
8) They could also have their right to speak removed, which also had no time limit.
9) Public forced nudity was another punishment.
10) Adolescents will forcibly bathed other adolescents.
11) Kids became sick and weren’t allowed medical treatment.
12) If your child wants to avoid being tortured, they have to torture other kids.
13) Adolescents decided if you were “saneâ€
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I visited swift river in 1997. Brett Carey who was RMA staff in the late 80's and friend of mine was one of the head staff at ASR in 97.
He and Rea Kreider are gone. I'd love to hear the truth about why they left.
See the part you don't get is that it takes a decade or 2 to process the mental/verbal abuse, censorship and personality suppression these schools rely on. Had you asked me, 10 years ago , what was inherently wrong with CEDU I probably wouldn't have said anything negative about it. I would have to guess your daughter is in that 'phase' right now.
It's a 1 step forward 9 steps back scenario.
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Aiiiiiiiiiint!! Anne, you failed the test. You are living in the past, only see the world from your own experiences and cant seem to get passed it (no pun intended). Any advice you give to parents will not help any of their kids and will probably do them harm. I am far from an expert, but you are severely out of touch with todays programs.
Assignment (If you choose to take it):
You should read more outside of fornits for some up to date information and maybe work on your manners.
...
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So would you find the following list typical of the TBS’s of today? Would you tell parents this is what they should expect?:
1) They will be systematically sexually abuse
2) They will be worked as a slave,
3) Subject the kids to 6 hour a day peer denouncement sessions-public degradation-the sort practiced by the Chinese in thought reform prisons.
4) The children will not be allowed to move unless another child gave me permission and then only with another 2 children holding me.
5) The adolescents will have the authority to beat your child whenever they feel they break a rule.
6) They beat children within inches of their lives.
7) They could be put in isolation for up to 6 months.
8) They could also have their right to speak removed, which also had no time limit.
9) Public forced nudity was another punishment.
10) Adolescents will forcibly bathed other adolescents.
11) Kids became sick and weren’t allowed medical treatment.
12) If your child wants to avoid being tortured, they have to torture other kids.
13) Adolescents decided if you were “saneâ€
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Aiiiiiiiiiint!! Anne, you failed the test. You are living in the past, only see the world from your own experiences and cant seem to get passed it (no pun intended). Any advice you give to parents will not help any of their kids and will probably do them harm. I am far from an expert, but you are severely out of touch with todays programs.
Assignment (If you choose to take it):
You should read more outside of fornits for some up to date information and maybe work on your manners.
...
You should BITE MY ASS!!!!!
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"Aiiiiiiiiiint!! Anne" ---- What the hell does that mean?
What's the point in reading up on an industry that needs to make amends and doesn't.
If I were living in the past I'd be working at one of those places.
Work on my manners? Sounds like the kitchen is getting hot and your eyeing the door.
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"Aiiiiiiiiiint!! Anne" ---- What the hell does that mean?
What's the point in reading up on an industry that needs to make amends and doesn't.
If I were living in the past I'd be working at one of those places.
Work on my manners? Sounds like the kitchen is getting hot and your eyeing the door.
Don't sweat it. Its what he always does after he gets
(http://http://okeimakei.bitacoras.com/pwned.jpg)
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I visited swift river in 1997. Brett Carey who was RMA staff in the late 80's and friend of mine was one of the head staff at ASR in 97.
He and Rea Kreider are gone. I'd love to hear the truth about why they left.
See the part you don't get is that it takes a decade or 2 to process the mental/verbal abuse, censorship and personality suppression these schools rely on. Had you asked me, 10 years ago , what was inherently wrong with CEDU I probably wouldn't have said anything negative about it. I would have to guess your daughter is in that 'phase' right now.
It's a 1 step forward 9 steps back scenario.
Yeah, I heard it is like night and day between when they started and today. They abandoned their original model after the first year or so and then just recently have turned to a more clinical approach. One of the things I like about ASR is that they continue to adjust and improve, if something isnt working or they get negative feedback from the parents or kids they make changes.
For example in the beginning they use to make kids sit in front of a mirror, if they broke the rules or lied etc., and had to do their studying there also. After getting some complaints from graduates and parents they dont do that any more.
Wow, 20 years before you realized the negative effects? I dont know what to say.. if my daughter tells me 15 years from now that the program was bad I am not sure how I would react...she is doing so well, she is happy, moving forward with her life. I cant imagine, having allowed her to continue on her old path, where she would be today.
...
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"Aiiiiiiiiiint!! Anne" ---- What the hell does that mean?
What's the point in reading up on an industry that needs to make amends and doesn't.
If I were living in the past I'd be working at one of those places.
Work on my manners? Sounds like the kitchen is getting hot and your eyeing the door.
No, that wasnt directed at you... that was in response to Anne Bonneys post, the one that posted the "Dog fighting" picture. I never called her a dog but I think she is pissed at me for saying she is living in the past.
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You should BITE MY ASS!!!!!
Assignment rejected.
Sorry if you think I insinuated you were a dog. I dont even know what you look like...chill.
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(no, not mine)
(http://http://www.duendemad.com/images/noticias/68-kiss-my-ass.jpg)
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I visited swift river in 1997. Brett Carey who was RMA staff in the late 80's and friend of mine was one of the head staff at ASR in 97.
He and Rea Kreider are gone. I'd love to hear the truth about why they left.
See the part you don't get is that it takes a decade or 2 to process the mental/verbal abuse, censorship and personality suppression these schools rely on. Had you asked me, 10 years ago , what was inherently wrong with CEDU I probably wouldn't have said anything negative about it. I would have to guess your daughter is in that 'phase' right now.
It's a 1 step forward 9 steps back scenario.
Yeah, I heard it is like night and day between when they started and today. They abandoned their original model after the first year or so and then just recently have turned to a more clinical approach. One of the things I like about ASR is that they continue to adjust and improve, if something isnt working or they get negative feedback from the parents or kids they make changes.
For example in the beginning they use to make kids sit in front of a mirror, if they broke the rules or lied etc., and had to do their studying there also. After getting some complaints from graduates and parents they dont do that any more.
Wow, 20 years before you realized the negative effects? I dont know what to say.. if my daughter tells me 15 years from now that the program was bad I am not sure how I would react...she is doing so well, she is happy, moving forward with her life. I cant imagine, having allowed her to continue on her old path, where she would be today.
...
1. Yeah, I heard it is like night and day between when they started and today. They abandoned their original model after the first year or so and then just recently have turned to a more clinical approach.
I just went to their website and it doesn't look to clinical to me.
2. One of the things I like about ASR is that they continue to adjust and improve, if something isnt working or they get negative feedback from the parents or kids they make changes.
So it took 25 years (CEDU 1980 to present) to implement the basics? In 1990 RMA would have laughed at a parent making suggestions.
3. Wow, 20 years before you realized the negative effects? I dont know what to say.. if my daughter tells me 15 years from now that the program was bad I am not sure how I would react...she is doing so well, she is happy, moving forward with her life. I cant imagine, having allowed her to continue on her old path, where she would be today.
Yes, 17 years later. My parent's describe/described me the same way you describe your daughter. Yes, I was on a bad path and needed to be in a different environment than my home environment but RMA was the last place I needed to be. I was on a bad path because my parent's handled their divorce about as well as Bill Clinton handles his extra-marital affairs and the CIA collects WMD information from IRAQ. That wasn't my fault. It was my parent's fault. RMA sat me down and yelled at me everyday and told me everything was my fault.
Lastly, when I was at RMA they had been using the "no medicine" approach. The day after they sold the school to a congolmerate (circa 1992) the policy changed. What more evidence do you need that these places are profit driven. They are strategically acquired 'facilities' to round out their institutional portfolio. The board of directors at places like UHS, Brown, etc. etc. took advice from investment bankers and got into the TBS business.
They need to make amends. They need to make their programs completely transparent. The students need to have their civil liberties respected. Prisoners have more civil liberties than TBS students have.
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ASR had at one stage a store that dave marcus spoke of the kids working in like a sort of kiosk. Tell us how much did they pay the kids to work there when your daughter was there? Places like turn about ranch also work on the premise that working as a Jackaroo or farm hand teaches kids a work ethic. They get the fruits of the kids labour without having to pay them.
You also mention that most schools dont have kids for 5 years but several kids have mentioned going to a variety of schools and having it add up to 4 or 5 years of their life. Are you suggesting that this is a lie?
I thought I would repost this as you ignored my question in favour of lecturing anne bonney. So how much was your daughter paid for working at the school shop? or did dave marcus make that section of the book up?
Oz girl
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ASR had at one stage a store that dave marcus spoke of the kids working in like a sort of kiosk. Tell us how much did they pay the kids to work there when your daughter was there? Places like turn about ranch also work on the premise that working as a Jackaroo or farm hand teaches kids a work ethic. They get the fruits of the kids labour without having to pay them.
You also mention that most schools dont have kids for 5 years but several kids have mentioned going to a variety of schools and having it add up to 4 or 5 years of their life. Are you suggesting that this is a lie?
I thought I would repost this as you ignored my question in favour of lecturing anne bonney. So how much was your daughter paid for working at the school shop? or did dave marcus make that section of the book up?
Oz girl
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Naw...no reason in the world to think that these places have a common thread. Nope, none at all.
:roll: :roll: :roll:
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=24456&start=90 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=24456&start=90)
Yeah, AMEN.
Evidently Che missed my post about lock up, the room with only a mattress and sermons getting pumped in while you whiled your days away without a shower, & few bathroom breaks. Possibly he also missed the one about scrubbing floors on hands & knees for hours. Have I not mentioned that the doors were locked, there were alarms on the windows? We weren't allowed to see our families for 6 months or more. Our phone calls were monitored, letters were monitored. We couldn't discuss our past, couldn't watch television, read anything other than schoolowork (which was a waste of time BEFORE getting the worthless diploma, we weren't allowed to talk to anyone not in the particular program we were in. We were isolated from society, had sermons blasted at us morning an night.
Granted, not all of the above is physical abuse, some of it is spiritual, and some emotional...but abuse nonetheless.
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So it took 25 years (CEDU 1980 to present) to implement the basics? In 1990 RMA would have laughed at a parent making suggestions.
Its good to see the mentality is changing some.
Yes, 17 years later. My parent's describe/described me the same way you describe your daughter. Yes, I was on a bad path and needed to be in a different environment than my home environment but RMA was the last place I needed to be. I was on a bad path because my parent's handled their divorce about as well as Bill Clinton handles his extra-marital affairs and the CIA collects WMD information from IRAQ. That wasn't my fault. It was my parent's fault. RMA sat me down and yelled at me everyday and told me everything was my fault.
That really sucks. Yelling and pointing fingers wouldn’t do a thing to resolve anything. I can see why you look back on it the way you do.
Lastly, when I was at RMA they had been using the "no medicine" approach. The day after they sold the school to a congolmerate (circa 1992) the policy changed. What more evidence do you need that these places are profit driven. They are strategically acquired 'facilities' to round out their institutional portfolio. The board of directors at places like UHS, Brown, etc. etc. took advice from investment bankers and got into the TBS business.
It is true they are all profit driven like anything else.
They need to make amends. They need to make their programs completely transparent. The students need to have their civil liberties respected. Prisoners have more civil liberties than TBS students have.
Agreed, they have come a long way but they still have a long way to go.
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It is true they are all profit driven like anything else.
B b b b but you keep telling us what wonderful people these are and they just want to help the kids!
*Gasp*
You mean, they're making MONEY off of us??????
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOo
Who, you are such a giagantic tool I can't even believe it.
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I really hope you rethink that last response "It is true they are all profit driven like anything else. "
You realize with that statement you're lumping TBS's with the likes of Pornography.
I don't think you thoroughly examined the quantity/quality of collateral damage done by this industry.
Think about the concept of the collateral damage ratio. If the school legitimately helps 20 kids and mind warps 2 kids - that's OK? No, it's not OK.
I'd rather be a bum on the street then a TBS counselor that walks around saying, "Hey, I got to pay my bills. A job is a job".
The best way to sum up that industry is: Collateral damage in the name of profit.
I can't believe that none of the TBS pioneers have ever had the conviction to make amends. It's their dirty little secret.
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Oz Girl wrote:
ASR had at one stage a store that dave marcus spoke of the kids working in like a sort of kiosk. Tell us how much did they pay the kids to work there when your daughter was there? Places like turn about ranch also work on the premise that working as a Jackaroo or farm hand teaches kids a work ethic. They get the fruits of the kids labour without having to pay them.
She talked about the store. It wasn’t more than a place where the kids could get snacks and such. It wasn’t open to the public. The kids didn’t get paid for it!! I wouldn’t let ASR give my kid any money without permission. These were just chores that each child was assigned. They would do general cleaning of the common areas, run the store etc…. its not that they were doing it to save money Ha,Ha,Ha, its like having kids make their own bed at home or vacuum the living room and hallway… it teaches them work ethic and being part of the school, chipping in etc.
You also mention that most schools dont have kids for 5 years but several kids have mentioned going to a variety of schools and having it add up to 4 or 5 years of their life. Are you suggesting that this is a lie?
ASR is a 14 – 16 month program (at least it was). I am not aware of any programs which run for several years. I guess parents could keep sending their kids away if that is what they want to do, but the schools themselves don’t do this.
I thought I would repost this as you ignored my question in favour of lecturing anne bonney. So how much was your daughter paid for working at the school shop? or did dave marcus make that section of the book up?
Oz girl
I don’t think Dave Marcus would have any reason to make anything up. I never spoke in detail about the store at ASR with my daughter. But if she was being paid without my knowledge then I would be pissed. I set up payment with them and handled all her internal expenses with a separate account and her therapist was handled independently of the school. There was no need for her to have money while she was there, everything was provided for her.
I will have to review the book because I don’t remember that issue in particular.
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I don’t think Dave Marcus would have any reason to make anything up.
Cushy little consulting job with Aspen Ed wouldn't have anything to do with it now, would it?
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I really hope you rethink that last response "It is true they are all profit driven like anything else. "
You realize with that statement you're lumping TBS's with the likes of Pornography.
I am sure you make a profit, hospitals are profit driven, green peace is profit driven, the American cancer society ( a non profit organization) pays its top people extremely well. Why should therapeutic schools work for free?
I don't think you thoroughly examined the quantity/quality of collateral damage done by this industry.
Think about the concept of the collateral damage ratio. If the school legitimately helps 20 kids and mind warps 2 kids - that's OK? No, it's not OK.
Well it depends. If the 20 kids were left to their own demise (and did not attend a TBS) and 15 of the 20 died within a year then I would say the group would be better off attending the school.
I'd rather be a bum on the street then a TBS counselor that walks around saying, "Hey, I got to pay my bills. A job is a job".
I agree with you, anyone who says “A job is a jobâ€
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I'm very clear on the fact that we live in a free-market capitalist system. You fail to miss the point that many staff/administrators/directors onlycare about the money. The rest is lip service.
"If 15 kids died......" That's the oldest TBS trick in the book.
You're a program parent at best. You sent your daughter there, she's doing better. Game set match point. Your victory has locked you into not being able to see the collateral damage. In a way I can't blame you. If I were in your shoes. I'd have to justify everything as well.
Equating Fornits to www.myhondasucks.com (http://www.myhondasucks.com) ? Wow, you're sucking the very air out of my lungs.
Well - that's curtains for me. I was hoping for some original responses from you.
No wait. Back to my original question. I want you to "explain me". Tell me how I should feel now. Tell me how I should reconcile my experience. Tell me how to 'cope with life'. You pro-progammies need to take some accountability and call a spade a spade. That might show you have a little insight and character. Otherwise you're just a 'damage control' soldier.
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but there are hundreds of thousands of kids who benefit from what these schools offer and move on with their lives.
Got anything other than your word to back that up?
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but there are hundreds of thousands of kids who benefit from what these schools offer and move on with their lives.
Got anything other than your word to back that up?
Of course he doesn't, because it's as untrue as Bush's take on Iraq is.
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I'm very clear on the fact that we live in a free-market capitalist system. You fail to miss the point that many staff/administrators/directors onlycare about the money. The rest is lip service.
If doctors just care about the money and not the patients then that is bad, I agree. But everyone needs to make a profit for their time spent.
"If 15 kids died......" That's the oldest TBS trick in the book.
You are the one that brought it up. My point was, we don’t know. If 20 heart patients come in for a heart operation and 2 don’t do well is that acceptable? How do we measure that ? What is our benchmark? What would be the result if we did nothing?
You're a program parent at best. You sent your daughter there, she's doing better. Game set match point. Your victory has locked you into not being able to see the collateral damage. In a way I can't blame you. If I were in your shoes. I'd have to justify everything as well.
Maybe you are right, maybe I don’t see the whole picture because of my daughters success. I see the down side here on fornits all day long, but I don’t see anyone here willing to point out the advances the industry has made over the decades so I feel the effort made here isn’t sincere, I guess. People just seem pissed off, but no one is willing to step up and help anyone or talk openly to these parents who visit.
Equating Fornits to www.myhondasucks.com (http://www.myhondasucks.com) ? Wow, you're sucking the very air out of my lungs.
Ha,Ha,Ha, Out of all the people I have talked to in my life I am amazed at the number of people here on fornits who get offended by analogies. I think that many don’t understand that an analogy is just a connection between two things that have nothing in common except maybe one thread. For example, If I said you were honest as Abe Lincoln. This wouldn’t imply that I thought you were old or had a beard or wanted to run for president. I am merely making a thin connection between you and him on a very small level in an effort to make a point. Its amazing how many people this escapes here.
Well - that's curtains for me. I was hoping for some original responses from you.
No wait. Back to my original question. I want you to "explain me". Tell me how I should feel now. Tell me how I should reconcile my experience. Tell me how to 'cope with life'. You pro-progammies need to take some accountability and call a spade a spade. That might show you have a little insight and character. Otherwise you're just a 'damage control' soldier.
Sorry, If I could I would. I am not sure where you are right now or all that happened to you. I would try to not let any one event in your life dominate who you are. We are all a product of everything that touched us not just our schooling experience or job experience or parental influences or our peer influences.
Just don’t let it consume you like it has Anne Bonney, or people like her, and imprison you in the past so that it requires all your time and focus. If the thoughts consume you an hour a day make it your goal to think about it only 45 minutes a day next month and so on until you feel reconciling your experience isn’t all that important.
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Ha,Ha,Ha, Out of all the people I have talked to in my life I am amazed at the number of people here on fornits who get offended by analogies. I think that many don’t understand that an analogy is just a connection between two things that have nothing in common except maybe one thread. For example, If I said you were honest as Abe Lincoln. This wouldn’t imply that I thought you were old or had a beard or wanted to run for president. I am merely making a thin connection between you and him on a very small level in an effort to make a point. Its amazing how many people this escapes here.
It doesn't escape any of us. Most of us just feel that our kids mental well being is a little more important than saving a few bucks while getting our car fixed.
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Ha,Ha,Ha, Out of all the people I have talked to in my life I am amazed at the number of people here on fornits who get offended by analogies. I think that many don’t understand that an analogy is just a connection between two things that have nothing in common except maybe one thread. For example, If I said you were honest as Abe Lincoln. This wouldn’t imply that I thought you were old or had a beard or wanted to run for president. I am merely making a thin connection between you and him on a very small level in an effort to make a point. Its amazing how many people this escapes here.
It doesn't escape any of us. Most of us just feel that our kids mental well being is a little more important than saving a few bucks while getting our car fixed.
Ha,Ha,Ha, you cant be serious... that is just too funny..."saving a few bucks while getting our car fixed". That is just priceless. I bet you still have a straight face too.
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Quote:
"If 15 kids died......" That's the oldest TBS trick in the book.
You are the one that brought it up. My point was, we don’t know. If 20 heart patients come in for a heart operation and 2 don’t do well is that acceptable? How do we measure that ? What is our benchmark? What would be the result if we did nothing?
Nope - you played the death card not me. I said 'mind warped'. And while we're on the "if 15 people....". You want to play 'what if's' ?????? What if 15 sets of parents got their shit together and raised their kids properly. How come none of the programs call the parents out on their bullshit? Cuz they write the dam checks - that's why. It's the parents fault for failing their kids. It's twice over the parents fault for outsourcing parenting.
You are the simplest of simpletons. "If you have to ask you'll never know. You are a true follower."
" I don’t see anyone here willing to point out the advances the industry has made over the decades "
1. I'm sure that this site started as venue for survivors to vent. End of story.
2.And if someone wants to make this website, for whatever damn reason, then so be it. It's an american right to free speech. You're presence is big brotheresque. You're not fighting for a cause by posting here. Survivors posting here are doing the only real work. If you had your act together you'd be elsewhere fighting the good fight.
3. "Advances in the industry". Himmel and co. were very proud of the advances in gas & oven fabrication at Auchwitz from 1939 to 1943. You can polish a turd until you're blue in the face but it's still a heaping pile of crap.
"Sorry, If I could I would. I am not sure where you are right now or all that happened to you. I would try to not let any one event in your life dominate who you are. We are all a product of everything that touched us not just our schooling experience or job experience or parental influences or our peer influences. "
Just don’t let it consume you like it has Anne Bonney, or people like her, and imprison you in the past so that it requires all your time and focus.
1. So it's of no concern to you the detrimental effects of TBS's past and present. You're not concered about the wrongdoings of The TBS's that paved the way so your kid could have the 'perfect experience'? It's of no importance to you to address this issue? Anyone that is 'pro-progam' is 100% obligated to address this issue. But not one of you have. That's what makes you so dispicable. You turn a blind eye to the ugly truth.
2. Please save your life coaching for the next time you give Dr. Phil a handjob. Me calling CEDU a crock of shit doesn't consume my life. I've lived a great life and travelled the world since I left that fuckhole. I've had plenty of wonderful times since I left there. However, everything I've accomplished after my graduation I owe to me. I owe none of it to RMA. I come here to vent but my thoughts don't consume me.
CEDU was a joke and is a joke. amateurs - all of them. strongarming teens who grew up in a jackass household.
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It doesn't escape any of us. Most of us just feel that our kids mental well being is a little more important than saving a few bucks while getting our car fixed.
Programmie: "well, I've got good news and bad news."
Parent: "Oh no.. what's the bad news?"
Programmie: "Your son cut his throat out. I mean he fucking jammed a kitchen knife into the side and just ripped. Right through his whole fucking windpipe. I've never seen anything like it. He was DOA at the hospital."
Parent: "Then.. then what the hell's the good news?!"
Programmie: "I just asved a bunch of money on my car insurance by switching to Geico. Oh, and we're not refunding your tuition."
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I liked that. That was very Tyler Durden esque.
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The Who is the kind of person who likes to throw a party and not clean the mess up afterwards.....
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Oz Girl wrote: ASR had at one stage a store that dave marcus spoke of the kids working in like a sort of kiosk. Tell us how much did they pay the kids to work there when your daughter was there? Places like turn about ranch also work on the premise that working as a Jackaroo or farm hand teaches kids a work ethic. They get the fruits of the kids labour without having to pay them.
She talked about the store. It wasn’t more than a place where the kids could get snacks and such. It wasn’t open to the public. The kids didn’t get paid for it!! I wouldn’t let ASR give my kid any money without permission. These were just chores that each child was assigned. They would do general cleaning of the common areas, run the store etc…. its not that they were doing it to save money Ha,Ha,Ha, its like having kids make their own bed at home or vacuum the living room and hallway… it teaches them work ethic and being part of the school, chipping in etc.
You also mention that most schools dont have kids for 5 years but several kids have mentioned going to a variety of schools and having it add up to 4 or 5 years of their life. Are you suggesting that this is a lie?
ASR is a 14 – 16 month program (at least it was). I am not aware of any programs which run for several years. I guess parents could keep sending their kids away if that is what they want to do, but the schools themselves don’t do this.
I thought I would repost this as you ignored my question in favour of lecturing anne bonney. So how much was your daughter paid for working at the school shop? or did dave marcus make that section of the book up?
Oz girl
I don’t think Dave Marcus would have any reason to make anything up. I never spoke in detail about the store at ASR with my daughter. But if she was being paid without my knowledge then I would be pissed. I set up payment with them and handled all her internal expenses with a separate account and her therapist was handled independently of the school. There was no need for her to have money while she was there, everything was provided for her.
I will have to review the book because I don’t remember that issue in particular.
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To be honest of ll the crazy shit that Marcus described working in a kiosk for free was the least of those kids worries. At some normal boarding schools here kids do a stint staffing the counter at the non profit tuck shop. So I would even be inclined to agree with you that this is not an unacceptable ask of the kids. However you did lie in your original post by claiming you were not asked to work in a shop without pay. They were. I would also want to know if the kiosk was for profit in any way. If so I stand by original point that this is a form of exploitation in the same way that having kids work on a for profit cattle ranch for "therapeutic" reasons is if the proprietors are pocketing the money. Other kids may have to get a part time job for pocket money or to save for college but they get to keep the wages or benefit from them.
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Think about the concept of the collateral damage ratio. If the school legitimately helps 20 kids and mind warps 2 kids - that's OK? No, it's not OK.
(“"If 15 kids died......" That's the oldest TBS trick in the book.â€
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Keep TheWho in perspective, folks.
I was abducted from my home, systematically sexually abused, worked as a slave, subjected to 6 hour a day peer denouncement sessions-public degradation-the sort practiced by the Chinese in thought reform prisons, not allowed to move unless another child gave me permission and then only with another 2 children holding me. These adolescents also had the authority to beat me whenever they felt i broke a rule, and they beat other children within inches of their lives. Other times you could be put in isolation, which had no time limit and went on as far as i know up to 6 months. You could also have your right to speak removed, which also had no time limit. Public forced nudity was another punishment. Adolescents forcibly bathed other adolescents. Kids became sick and weren’t allowed medical treatment. If you wanted not to be tortured, you had to torture other kids. Adolescents decided if you were “saneâ€
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To be honest of ll the crazy shit that Marcus described working in a kiosk for free was the least of those kids worries. At some normal boarding schools here kids do a stint staffing the counter at the non profit tuck shop. So I would even be inclined to agree with you that this is not an unacceptable ask of the kids. However you did lie in your original post by claiming you were not asked to work in a shop without pay. They were. I would also want to know if the kiosk was for profit in any way. If so I stand by original point that this is a form of exploitation in the same way that having kids work on a for profit cattle ranch for "therapeutic" reasons is if the proprietors are pocketing the money. Other kids may have to get a part time job for pocket money or to save for college but they get to keep the wages or benefit from them.
I don’t remember Marcus’ reference to the store in the book. When I think of a store I think of a place which sells food or clothes, tires etc. When my daughter mentioned that she can get things at a store I asked were it was because I had never seen it during my visit. She said it was no bigger than a closet and they could pick up small bags of potato chips and snacks that they could take to their room or eat during movie time. Parents or the public didn’t come by to purchase items…it was only open a short time each day and staffed by the kids themselves… each person had a chore to do i.e. clean the common areas, outside chores, it was to give kids responsibility for something…..its like doing chores at home… if the kids didn’t help at home you would have to hire a maid.
The kids are kept so busy with school, groups, studying, sports that there isn’t much time for chores or manning a store front.
When someone here mentioned that at straight kids had to work in a store for no wages I didn’t make the connection… I don’t know if that store was a small closet type place that handed out snacks for an hour a day or whether it was a public entity where kids were required to work for hours on end. I envisioned the later at the time.
...
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Keep TheWho in perspective, folks.
I was abducted from my home, systematically sexually abused, worked as a slave, subjected to 6 hour a day peer denouncement sessions-public degradation-the sort practiced by the Chinese in thought reform prisons, not allowed to move unless another child gave me permission and then only with another 2 children holding me. These adolescents also had the authority to beat me whenever they felt i broke a rule, and they beat other children within inches of their lives. Other times you could be put in isolation, which had no time limit and went on as far as i know up to 6 months. You could also have your right to speak removed, which also had no time limit. Public forced nudity was another punishment. Adolescents forcibly bathed other adolescents. Kids became sick and weren’t allowed medical treatment. If you wanted not to be tortured, you had to torture other kids. Adolescents decided if you were “saneâ€
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The Who is the kind of person who likes to throw a party and not clean the mess up afterwards.....
Now come on dishdutyfugitive, if I responded to you with a similar jab you (and others) would be upset because I was disrespecting a survivor.
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Keep TheWho in perspective, folks.
I was abducted from my home, systematically sexually abused, worked as a slave, subjected to 6 hour a day peer denouncement sessions-public degradation-the sort practiced by the Chinese in thought reform prisons, not allowed to move unless another child gave me permission and then only with another 2 children holding me. These adolescents also had the authority to beat me whenever they felt i broke a rule, and they beat other children within inches of their lives. Other times you could be put in isolation, which had no time limit and went on as far as i know up to 6 months. You could also have your right to speak removed, which also had no time limit. Public forced nudity was another punishment. Adolescents forcibly bathed other adolescents. Kids became sick and weren’t allowed medical treatment. If you wanted not to be tortured, you had to torture other kids. Adolescents decided if you were “saneâ€
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Damage Control Soldier
1. You’re an odd bird. You’re a fornits junkie and claim to be a ASR parent. The time spent here would indicate that you’re financially vested in the TBS industry. Either way you’re spinning your wheels here.
2. You frequently tell people to read up and do research. Until you do research on the long term effects of these places you’ve got no right to open your mouth. You want to open your mouth ??? No thanks, not here. Go find your own sandbox where you can play Dr. Phil with all your other Oprah watching, can’t think for themselves drones.
3. You best take your jabs. You asked for em you get em. For you to promote TBS’s and not spend any of your time addressing the long-term effects damage (intentional or unintentional) of the industry is laughable. Your digging your own grave – don’t put it on us.
4. For the family with 1 ‘bad kid’ out of 5 ? There are plenty of better options than a TBS. Do you know where the special Olympics came from? Kennedy guilt. They sent the bad apple Kennedy sister to the ward and they lobotomized her. They don’t sleep well at night because they drank the lobotomy kool aid back then and finally realized it was wrong. One day you will realize this TBS shit is just as wrong.
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Damage Control Soldier
1. You’re an odd bird. You’re a fornits junkie and claim to be a ASR parent. The time spent here would indicate that you’re financially vested in the TBS industry. Either way you’re spinning your wheels here.
You claim to be a person who attended a program and if you cannot recognize that the industry is improving everyday then I believe you are spinning your wheels.
2. You frequently tell people to read up and do research. Until you do research on the long term effects of these places you’ve got no right to open your mouth. You want to open your mouth ??? No thanks, not here. Go find your own sandbox where you can play Dr. Phil with all your other Oprah watching, can’t think for themselves drones.
I am living the long term effects, my daughter is an example of the long term effects. It appears you are the one who has not kept up with the industry.
3. You best take your jabs. You asked for em you get em. For you to promote TBS’s and not spend any of your time addressing the long-term effects damage (intentional or unintentional) of the industry is laughable. Your digging your own grave – don’t put it on us.
Nah, not my style to name call. I have on occasion but its not pretty. Someday you will wake up and see that TBS’s are the answer that many kids need. Stop living in the past and look at some of the models of the future.
Sure we could all be blinded like you. I could point to a car accident along the highway and say “See, car safety hasn’t improved in 50 yearsâ€
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Here we go again with the www.myhondasucks.com (http://www.myhondasucks.com)
I claim to be a CEDU grad? I'll smack you upside the dome with my 2x2x1 graduation scrapbook you brownshirt.
Thanks for the enlightening discourse. I've wasted my last breath with you.
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Here we go again with the www.myhondasucks.com (http://www.myhondasucks.com)
I claim to be a CEDU grad? I'll smack you upside the dome with my 2x2x1 graduation scrapbook you brownshirt.
You’re a fornits junkie and claim to be a ASR parent.
Thanks for the enlightening discourse. I've wasted my last breath with you.
I claim to be an ASR parent? … you ingrate…you dare to question me, my man!! Why, Why I will strangle you within inches of your life with my ASR scarf... I will saddle you with the task of reading thousands of thank you letters from former students….. You are a shockingly backward rapscallion ....you will be forced to choose from the ASR Vegan menu for 1 week……. You are an unconscionably ill-mannered barbarian , and a dastardly, foul-smelling festering boil on the butt of humanity….I shall personally see to it that you are tasked with dispensing the popcorn during movie night, and you shall endure a personal bag without butter!!! …. You are nothing but a whoreson mandrake…..I will hire an escort service to forcibly take you into town to shop at the mall.
Dam you, you bootless swag-bellied flap-dragon………I shall alter your self esteem utilizing my handy flint and limestone… Thou caluminous folly-fallen clack-dish!....I will brow beat you with endless photos of children attending the college of their choice…. You are a conspicuously incorrigible pervert and a catatonic, gossip-mongering offense to all of good taste and decency. ….. I shall personally force you to swim laps in the ASR pool, with the filter turned off!!....
You are buttock-rimming proof that evolution can go in reverse. ….I will seat you at the bow during ASR’s white water rafting trip….. all You men! You beasts! That quench the fire of your pernicious rage!" I will force thee to wax your own skis.
..
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I was abducted from my home, systematically sexually abused, worked as a slave, subjected to 6 hour a day peer denouncement sessions-public degradation-the sort practiced by the Chinese in thought reform prisons, not allowed to move unless another child gave me permission and then only with another 2 children holding me. These adolescents also had the authority to beat me whenever they felt i broke a rule, and they beat other children within inches of their lives. Other times you could be put in isolation, which had no time limit and went on as far as i know up to 6 months. You could also have your right to speak removed, which also had no time limit. Public forced nudity was another punishment. Adolescents forcibly bathed other adolescents. Kids became sick and weren’t allowed medical treatment. If you wanted not to be tortured, you had to torture other kids. Adolescents decided if you were “saneâ€
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The point was that it isn’t the fault of the parent that 1 out of 5 children choose a bad path. If it were the parenting style then all 5 kids would be affected but we know this is clearly not the case.
This little gem tells you all you need to know about TheWhore. He thinks that every single person has the exact same psychological makeup and is therefore promoting the one-size-fits-all model of "treatment."
The fact that TheWhore would post such utter nonsense shows he hasn't any education in mental health and indeed does not understand even the basics of human psychology - JUST LIKE THE PROGRAMS HE PROMOTES.
Personally, I have seen dozens of cases where parents abuse/neglect/fail to care for a single child of many, in fact, this is the TYPICAL pattern in abusive and neglectful households - normally just one kid of several takes the lion's share of, or even ALL of the parental abuse/neglect.
The notion that all kids have the same psychological makeup and that all parents treat each of their kids the same and that all kids will react to certain environments identically is laughable on its face.
This guy is an uneducated hack and therefore can't see that the people he supports are likewise. "Ignorance is bliss" and TheWhore is as woefully ignorant as they come, people.
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Here we go again with the www.myhondasucks.com (http://www.myhondasucks.com)
I claim to be a CEDU grad? I'll smack you upside the dome with my 2x2x1 graduation scrapbook you brownshirt.
Thanks for the enlightening discourse. I've wasted my last breath with you.
I claim to be an ASR parent? … you ingrate…you dare to question me, my man!! Why, Why I will strangle you within inches of your life with my ASR scarf... I will saddle you with the task of reading thousands of thank you letters from former students….. You are a shockingly backward rapscallion ....you will be forced to choose from the ASR Vegan menu for 1 week……. You are an unconscionably ill-mannered barbarian , and a dastardly, foul-smelling festering boil on the butt of humanity….I shall personally see to it that you are tasked with dispensing the popcorn during movie night, and you shall endure a personal bag without butter!!! …. You are nothing but a whoreson mandrake…..I will hire an escort service to forcibly take you into town to shop at the mall.
Dam you, you bootless swag-bellied flap-dragon………I shall alter your self esteem utilizing my handy flint and limestone… Thou caluminous folly-fallen clack-dish!....I will brow beat you with endless photos of children attending the college of their choice…. You are a conspicuously incorrigible pervert and a catatonic, gossip-mongering offense to all of good taste and decency. ….. I shall personally force you to swim laps in the ASR pool, with the filter turned off!!....
You are buttock-rimming proof that evolution can go in reverse. ….I will seat you at the bow during ASR’s white water rafting trip….. all You men! You beasts! That quench the fire of your pernicious rage!" I will force thee to wax your own skis...
Who(re), I am officially placing you on bans from the rest of the group. You are on a time out until you realize what an ass you are and officially apologize for being said ass. You sir are an asshat of the most disagreeable kind, and I suggest the rest of us simply ignore his crap from this point forward. He obviously has nothing better to do than stir up shit. Go get a hobby who, and go away.
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And don't fuck with me either, I'm in no mood. You don't want to tangle with me today, I WILL bring you down. You need to go justify your actions somewhere else. Being a parent of a kid who went to one of those places gives you no right to make judgements on other children who were sent to a TBS. You're ridiculous. And don't ever say "rapscallion" in my presence again.
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And don't fuck with me either, I'm in no mood. You don't want to tangle with me today, I WILL bring you down. You need to go justify your actions somewhere else. Being a parent of a kid who went to one of those places gives you no right to make judgements on other children who were sent to a TBS. You're ridiculous. And don't ever say "rapscallion" in my presence again.
I appologize I was venting and "Rapscallion" just slipped out.
...
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Here we go again with the www.myhondasucks.com (http://www.myhondasucks.com)
I claim to be a CEDU grad? I'll smack you upside the dome with my 2x2x1 graduation scrapbook you brownshirt.
Thanks for the enlightening discourse. I've wasted my last breath with you.
I claim to be an ASR parent? … you ingrate…you dare to question me, my man!! Why, Why I will strangle you within inches of your life with my ASR scarf... I will saddle you with the task of reading thousands of thank you letters from former students….. You are a shockingly backward rapscallion ....you will be forced to choose from the ASR Vegan menu for 1 week……. You are an unconscionably ill-mannered barbarian , and a dastardly, foul-smelling festering boil on the butt of humanity….I shall personally see to it that you are tasked with dispensing the popcorn during movie night, and you shall endure a personal bag without butter!!! …. You are nothing but a whoreson mandrake…..I will hire an escort service to forcibly take you into town to shop at the mall.
Dam you, you bootless swag-bellied flap-dragon………I shall alter your self esteem utilizing my handy flint and limestone… Thou caluminous folly-fallen clack-dish!....I will brow beat you with endless photos of children attending the college of their choice…. You are a conspicuously incorrigible pervert and a catatonic, gossip-mongering offense to all of good taste and decency. ….. I shall personally force you to swim laps in the ASR pool, with the filter turned off!!....
You are buttock-rimming proof that evolution can go in reverse. ….I will seat you at the bow during ASR’s white water rafting trip….. all You men! You beasts! That quench the fire of your pernicious rage!" I will force thee to wax your own skis...
PS. you may want to go get your head checked. This sounded like you may have had a seizure or stroke of some kind. And I suggest this of course because I really care about the child within you.
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I'm going to add "whoreson mandrake" to the forbidden list as well.
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I'm going to add "whoreson mandrake" to the forbidden list as well.
I would like to retain the privilege to refer to them in my personal journal?
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I was abducted from my home, systematically sexually abused, worked as a slave, subjected to 6 hour a day peer denouncement sessions-public degradation-the sort practiced by the Chinese in thought reform prisons, not allowed to move unless another child gave me permission and then only with another 2 children holding me. These adolescents also had the authority to beat me whenever they felt i broke a rule, and they beat other children within inches of their lives. Other times you could be put in isolation, which had no time limit and went on as far as i know up to 6 months. You could also have your right to speak removed, which also had no time limit. Public forced nudity was another punishment. Adolescents forcibly bathed other adolescents. Kids became sick and weren’t allowed medical treatment. If you wanted not to be tortured, you had to torture other kids. Adolescents decided if you were “saneâ€
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Scared of what..?
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Scared of what..?
The kid likes the drama too much. Has to be a troll.
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Scared of what..?
The kid likes the drama too much. Has to be a troll.
The drama of posting anon in an obscure forum? Who, the joys of this is something YOU like because you are either mentally ill and a sociopath, or it's your job. That's not everyone's experience.
if you want, i can pm you about my concerns, frod...
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if you want, i can pm you about my concerns, frod...
Sure, feel free...
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if you want, i can pm you about my concerns, frod...
Sure, feel free...
PM me too, I want to know what's going on.
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If anyone can tear themselves away from playing with the Who I'm sure there are plenty of programs that need a good protesting.
Someone with a sense of humor ought to nip by ASR.
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ok, let me register.. :P
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TheWho, I wish you would stop posting things that anger this particular druggie, as she will continue expounding like this, which amounts to bad publicity for SIBS.
Anyway Who, you seem to be talented at making an ass out of yourself (e.g. your so-called "statistics" that these fornits druggies so easily refute; I find this downright ridiculous), and consequently casting a negative light on serious-minded folks in the industry (like myself) who are busy making a difference and getting these kids off drugs..
:D :D :D
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bump