Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Straight, Inc. and Derivatives => Topic started by: Deprogrammed on November 30, 2007, 02:42:55 PM
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I was in front of 6070 Branch Hill-Guinea Pike in Milford Ohio at the old Straight Cincinnati building protesting KHK ( Pathway Family Centers ).
When I started out my journey this morning I was under the misconception that since I was protesting in the early morning by myself that there would be no interest in what I was doing. Boy, was I ever wrong. So I am standing there on the public causeway with frost bitten hands at the 25 degree temperature, holding my signs; and this nice compassionate lady turns around and pulls into the KHK driveway to speak with me. She wanted to know what I was protesting she saw "Teen Oppression" on my sign. So, I simply told her that KHK uses an abusive Straight Inc. treatment modality, and that the other name for KHK is Pathway Family Centers because they own them. I also referred her to all of the websites. She wrote everything and she was extremely interested and had actually heard of the abuses of Straigh Inc. before now. I told her a little of my story and she said to me that she was sorry that it had happened to me and thanked me for telling her my story.
So, in turn I thanked her for taking interest and I appreciated her stopping by.
Another lady pulling out of the program driveway flagged me down said "Hey, what are you doing here?". I said to her, "I am protesting the cult called KHK that is down the very driveway that you just pulled out of". She said back to me, "Their called Pathway now they've changed". So I asked her "Do you work for them?". She replied, "No, I am a program parent, and they've changed their Pathway now". So I replied, "Is Penny Walker still executive director there?". Now, I asked the same question in rapid succession because she would not answer the question. So then I told her since you wont answer that question that tells me that they have not changed. So then I proceeded to tell her a little story about me as a survivor under Penny Walkers tenure. She claimed that this place was better than drugs and it was saving her childs life. She kept asking me why are you doing this, they've changed. So I asked her if she would like a flyer. She told me yes she would like a flyer. So I gave her one, and as I handed her the flyer she still was telling me pro program jargon. So I told her the end does not justify the means with this place and simply informed her again that I am a survivor of KHK and that I know what goes on there. I also informed her that if she is not going to care for her child than I will and that is why I am here.
Warm regards,
-DP
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Kick their asses DP!!! I would surely love to've been there... 8-)
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Hooray!!!
Man reading about all the direct action going on is giving me a bit of courage, way to go dude... Oh and this line: "I also informed her that if she is not going to care for her child than I will and that is why I am here." : Golden!
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When were you in KHK DP? That's awesome that you did that! and encouraging to hear that people were interested! If I was in the area I'd join you
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When were you in KHK DP? That's awesome that you did that! and encouraging to hear that people were interested! If I was in the area I'd join you
I was in KHK in 1989, but did not leave until early 1991.
I am a survivor and and ex-staff member of Kids Helping Kids.
What area are you in that you can not attend?
If you would like to attend to support the cause next time please Pm
me your contact information and I will give ye advance notice for the next one.
sincerely,
-DP
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I have tears in my eyes. Well done deprogrammed.. I'm gathering you went out there alone? This is awesome and I wish more people had the stones you have.
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Excellent work yesterday morning DP. You are truly our anchor.
Are you gonna tell em the rest? Like how many hours you put in? Or what shade of blue your lips were? :)
T
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A special thanks goes out to DeProgrammed who braved the cold from early morning until late at night and spent all day protesting alone. That is determination, I salute you!
And to the 2 brave soldiers who fought on, despite the cold and the freaky people. Much appreciation!
T
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A special thanks goes out to DeProgrammed who braved the cold from early morning until late at night and spent all day protesting alone. That is determination, I salute you!
And to the 2 brave soldiers who fought on, despite the cold and the freaky people. Much appreciation!
T
thank you Tony,
Which two brave soldiers?
-DP
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Awesome, awesome, awesome...!!! Hopefully that program parent will give your words some thought!
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Can you imagine what the next open meeting was like!!!!!!!!
OMG!!!!!
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Probably a bit of a disappointment, as usual.
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No doubt the next open meeting was full of long winded tirades against the protestors involving charges of drug abuse, sodomy, and horse molesting.
They pulled the same stunt against Psy at Benchmark pretty much the same day or so we showed up there.
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No doubt the next open meeting was full of long winded tirades against the protestors involving charges of drug abuse, sodomy, and horse molesting.
No, the KHK way is to ignore ignore ignore. If something is not ok by program standards, then just pretend it didn't happen! The kids won't notice! Some kid is screaming in time out? Just pretend you don't hear it. Most of the KHK staff is in denial about the truth of their own program.
Parent groups though, I'm sure that you all were picked apart, on drugs, trying to kidnap children (ironic!) nothing you said was valid, etc etc.
Hopefully some of the parents are questioning their blind devotion to the program as a result of your efforts! Even if program acts like nothing is the matter, people don't stand in the freezing cold for nothing! Parents should know that!
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No doubt the next open meeting was full of long winded tirades against the protestors involving charges of drug abuse, sodomy, and horse molesting.
No, the KHK way is to ignore ignore ignore. If something is not ok by program standards, then just pretend it didn't happen! The kids won't notice! Some kid is screaming in time out? Just pretend you don't hear it. Most of the KHK staff is in denial about the truth of their own program.
Parent groups though, I'm sure that you all were picked apart, on drugs, trying to kidnap children (ironic!) nothing you said was valid, etc etc.
Hopefully some of the parents are questioning their blind devotion to the program as a result of your efforts! Even if program acts like nothing is the matter, people don't stand in the freezing cold for nothing! Parents should know that!
As a former prisoner of KHK, I'm not sure if I agree with you. Instead of staff ignoring the situtation, I can envision long confessional rap sessions to discuss the protest. These would be designed to root out anyone who had "feelings" sympathetic with the protesters. In fact, the protests likely invite blow-away sessions. I fully support the protests, but dislike thinking what unsuspecting phaser had his or her day destroyed in the wake.
Can't you just hear it? The songs are over, and a staff member begins a rap with the topic of the protesters, likely equating them with something or somebody in his or her druggie past. And then the target is hit, stood up. All he's been doing is putting off, don't you think? His eyes were straying too much, as his oldcomer held his knee in the car. His oldcomer rises and says that his newcomer glared a fraction of a second too long at the protesters, and that this constitutes a much wider degree of druggie thoughts and actions that demand a Starting Over.
I know nothing has changed. Twenty-four years later, I bet my last bit of change that my scenario is likely occuring or soon to occur.
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Interesting...and yes, I think that's most likely how it actually went. What you just described bears a striking similarity to the sort of thing that went on in Straight. Well said.
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Interesting...and yes, I think that's most likely how it actually went. What you just described bears a striking similarity to the sort of thing that went on in Straight. Well said.
Straight and KHK were identical in my time, only an administrative decision was made to scale down the physical abuse. The physical violence against teens in Milford was common knowledge when I was in Hebron, KY. The staff and head psycholgist used it as a weapon against noncompliance, a threat: "Motivate or go to Straight, where they'll bloody your faces."
Otherwise, as far as I can tell, there are no differences between the KHK and Straight experience. Identical methods of coercive persuasion in every way. And there was some physical abuse in my time, just not of the large-scale lawsuit variety that the Sembler-mills practiced over the years.
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Interesting...and yes, I think that's most likely how it actually went. What you just described bears a striking similarity to the sort of thing that went on in Straight. Well said.
Straight and KHK were identical in my time, only an administrative decision was made to scale down the physical abuse. The physical violence against teens in Milford was common knowledge when I was in Hebron, KY. The staff and head psycholgist used it as a weapon against noncompliance, a threat: "Motivate or go to Straight, where they'll bloody your faces."
Otherwise, as far as I can tell, there are no differences between the KHK and Straight experience. Identical methods of coercive persuasion in every way. And there was some physical abuse in my time, just not of the large-scale lawsuit variety that the Sembler-mills practiced over the years.
Your time in Khk must have been better than mine , then.
I saw arms broken, parents lied to about how, sexual abuse happened etc.....
Sounds the same to me as a Sembler Mill.
I refuse to minimize the damage of khk.
-DP
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I refuse to minimize the damage of khk.
I refuse to minimize the damage of frosted flakes.
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I refuse to minimize the damage of khk.
I refuse to minimize the damage of frosted flakes.
ummm...ok...lol
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Interesting...and yes, I think that's most likely how it actually went. What you just described bears a striking similarity to the sort of thing that went on in Straight. Well said.
Straight and KHK were identical in my time, only an administrative decision was made to scale down the physical abuse. The physical violence against teens in Milford was common knowledge when I was in Hebron, KY. The staff and head psycholgist used it as a weapon against noncompliance, a threat: "Motivate or go to Straight, where they'll bloody your faces."
Otherwise, as far as I can tell, there are no differences between the KHK and Straight experience. Identical methods of coercive persuasion in every way. And there was some physical abuse in my time, just not of the large-scale lawsuit variety that the Sembler-mills practiced over the years.
Your time in Khk must have been better than mine , then.
I saw arms broken, parents lied to about how, sexual abuse happened etc.....
Sounds the same to me as a Sembler Mill.
I refuse to minimize the damage of khk.
-DP
I did not say that I saw no physical abuse. But your point is well taken. I've read so much about the abuse in Straight, however, and am certain that many people there had it much worse than in Hebron. But you are right. Any amount of physical violence is too much in these places, and none of it should be condoned or minimized. It's hard for me to even imagine how much worse my experience would have been if intense physical abuse had been added to the routine, if I had been subjected to actual physical pain for refusing to motivate. The thought haunts me immensely.
But remember that an administrative decision was made somewhere along the line. Somebody must have elected to scale down the violence, for it was significantly less visible than in Straight. In my opinion, this makes them just as guilty--kinder, gentler officials of mind control.
I also believe that in KHK the abuse came and went. In 1983, I remember hearing about how insane things used to be, how groups of newcomers would charge the doors en masse and acutally fight--a cozy thought in my head then--and how pile-ons and harsh force were used much more frequently. Perhaps I and my fellow prisoners were not doing our duty.
But I saw blood, daily pile-ons. I experienced a good dose of solitary confinement myself. I watched a staff member repeatedly slam a newcomer against a wall in the intake room. I saw a kid forced to sit in his own urine. I saw another kid slam his broken arm, in a cast, on one of the church pews, over and over again, as staff continued to egg him on, tears pouring down his face. I watched them throw us the last of the Southern Frontier cuisine unto the grimy floors--fish cakes, usually--as a competition to see who could get to it first. Who was hungry enough to eat off the floor. And much, much more.
I'm not diminishing any of this. But the things you and I saw and experienced are bad enough, and you and I both know that things were much, much worse in Straight. And that says a lot, for the degree of abuse in KHK was refined and overwhelming. It's inconceivable for the average person to understand how much worse it could get. And it did. In Milford and many other places.
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And one more thing. I suppose my tendency to minimize the KHK experience stems from my frustration at the lack of former KHK people posting here and elsewhere. One theory for this keeps coming back to me. Perhaps the vocal unhappy Straightlings are legion and we are not because of the physical torture. And because it did occur more frequently in Straight, this is the reason why Fornits hears from many more of them than us. It's the only plausible reason I've ever been able to come up with, because, again, KHK was identical in every other way. After my final escape, I met former inmates who were just as unhappy and disgusted with the experience as I was. And that was only from my time, my group. But where are they now? I met only one in 2006, and he expressed the same frustration.
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Guest wrote:
Deprogrammed wrote:
I refuse to minimize the damage of khk.
I refuse to minimize the damage of frosted flakes.
ummm...ok...lol
yeah, what about roofintar n' nails? THAT's damage! :rofl: earth is calling, best get on the horn :rofl:
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yeah, what about roofintar n' nails? THAT's damage! :rofl: earth is calling, best get on the horn :rofl:
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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Interesting...and yes, I think that's most likely how it actually went. What you just described bears a striking similarity to the sort of thing that went on in Straight. Well said.
Straight and KHK were identical in my time, only an administrative decision was made to scale down the physical abuse. The physical violence against teens in Milford was common knowledge when I was in Hebron, KY. The staff and head psycholgist used it as a weapon against noncompliance, a threat: "Motivate or go to Straight, where they'll bloody your faces."
Otherwise, as far as I can tell, there are no differences between the KHK and Straight experience. Identical methods of coercive persuasion in every way. And there was some physical abuse in my time, just not of the large-scale lawsuit variety that the Sembler-mills practiced over the years.
Your time in Khk must have been better than mine , then.
I saw arms broken, parents lied to about how, sexual abuse happened etc.....
Sounds the same to me as a Sembler Mill.
I refuse to minimize the damage of khk.
-DP
I did not say that I saw no physical abuse. But your point is well taken. I've read so much about the abuse in Straight, however, and am certain that many people there had it much worse than in Hebron. But you are right. Any amount of physical violence is too much in these places, and none of it should be condoned or minimized. It's hard for me to even imagine how much worse my experience would have been if intense physical abuse had been added to the routine, if I had been subjected to actual physical pain for refusing to motivate. The thought haunts me immensely.
But remember that an administrative decision was made somewhere along the line. Somebody must have elected to scale down the violence, for it was significantly less visible than in Straight. In my opinion, this makes them just as guilty--kinder, gentler officials of mind control.
I also believe that in KHK the abuse came and went. In 1983, I remember hearing about how insane things used to be, how groups of newcomers would charge the doors en masse and acutally fight--a cozy thought in my head then--and how pile-ons and harsh force were used much more frequently. Perhaps I and my fellow prisoners were not doing our duty.
But I saw blood, daily pile-ons. I experienced a good dose of solitary confinement myself. I watched a staff member repeatedly slam a newcomer against a wall in the intake room. I saw a kid forced to sit in his own urine. I saw another kid slam his broken arm, in a cast, on one of the church pews, over and over again, as staff continued to egg him on, tears pouring down his face. I watched them throw us the last of the Southern Frontier cuisine unto the grimy floors--fish cakes, usually--as a competition to see who could get to it first. Who was hungry enough to eat off the floor. And much, much more.
I'm not diminishing any of this. But the things you and I saw and experienced are bad enough, and you and I both know that things were much, much worse in Straight. And that says a lot, for the degree of abuse in KHK was refined and overwhelming. It's inconceivable for the average person to understand how much worse it could get. And it did. In Milford and many other places.
Well, hello again Richard.
-DP
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Interesting...and yes, I think that's most likely how it actually went. What you just described bears a striking similarity to the sort of thing that went on in Straight. Well said.
Straight and KHK were identical in my time, only an administrative decision was made to scale down the physical abuse. The physical violence against teens in Milford was common knowledge when I was in Hebron, KY. The staff and head psycholgist used it as a weapon against noncompliance, a threat: "Motivate or go to Straight, where they'll bloody your faces."
Otherwise, as far as I can tell, there are no differences between the KHK and Straight experience. Identical methods of coercive persuasion in every way. And there was some physical abuse in my time, just not of the large-scale lawsuit variety that the Sembler-mills practiced over the years.
Your time in Khk must have been better than mine , then.
I saw arms broken, parents lied to about how, sexual abuse happened etc.....
Sounds the same to me as a Sembler Mill.
I refuse to minimize the damage of khk.
-DP
I did not say that I saw no physical abuse. But your point is well taken. I've read so much about the abuse in Straight, however, and am certain that many people there had it much worse than in Hebron. But you are right. Any amount of physical violence is too much in these places, and none of it should be condoned or minimized. It's hard for me to even imagine how much worse my experience would have been if intense physical abuse had been added to the routine, if I had been subjected to actual physical pain for refusing to motivate. The thought haunts me immensely.
But remember that an administrative decision was made somewhere along the line. Somebody must have elected to scale down the violence, for it was significantly less visible than in Straight. In my opinion, this makes them just as guilty--kinder, gentler officials of mind control.
I also believe that in KHK the abuse came and went. In 1983, I remember hearing about how insane things used to be, how groups of newcomers would charge the doors en masse and acutally fight--a cozy thought in my head then--and how pile-ons and harsh force were used much more frequently. Perhaps I and my fellow prisoners were not doing our duty.
But I saw blood, daily pile-ons. I experienced a good dose of solitary confinement myself. I watched a staff member repeatedly slam a newcomer against a wall in the intake room. I saw a kid forced to sit in his own urine. I saw another kid slam his broken arm, in a cast, on one of the church pews, over and over again, as staff continued to egg him on, tears pouring down his face. I watched them throw us the last of the Southern Frontier cuisine unto the grimy floors--fish cakes, usually--as a competition to see who could get to it first. Who was hungry enough to eat off the floor. And much, much more.
I'm not diminishing any of this. But the things you and I saw and experienced are bad enough, and you and I both know that things were much, much worse in Straight. And that says a lot, for the degree of abuse in KHK was refined and overwhelming. It's inconceivable for the average person to understand how much worse it could get. And it did. In Milford and many other places.
Well, hello again Richard.
-DP
Yes. Fornits is a cult. Why else would I keep coming back? But beautiful job on 11/30!
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Interesting...and yes, I think that's most likely how it actually went. What you just described bears a striking similarity to the sort of thing that went on in Straight. Well said.
Straight and KHK were identical in my time, only an administrative decision was made to scale down the physical abuse. The physical violence against teens in Milford was common knowledge when I was in Hebron, KY. The staff and head psycholgist used it as a weapon against noncompliance, a threat: "Motivate or go to Straight, where they'll bloody your faces."
Otherwise, as far as I can tell, there are no differences between the KHK and Straight experience. Identical methods of coercive persuasion in every way. And there was some physical abuse in my time, just not of the large-scale lawsuit variety that the Sembler-mills practiced over the years.
Your time in Khk must have been better than mine , then.
I saw arms broken, parents lied to about how, sexual abuse happened etc.....
Sounds the same to me as a Sembler Mill.
I refuse to minimize the damage of khk.
-DP
I did not say that I saw no physical abuse. But your point is well taken. I've read so much about the abuse in Straight, however, and am certain that many people there had it much worse than in Hebron. But you are right. Any amount of physical violence is too much in these places, and none of it should be condoned or minimized. It's hard for me to even imagine how much worse my experience would have been if intense physical abuse had been added to the routine, if I had been subjected to actual physical pain for refusing to motivate. The thought haunts me immensely.
But remember that an administrative decision was made somewhere along the line. Somebody must have elected to scale down the violence, for it was significantly less visible than in Straight. In my opinion, this makes them just as guilty--kinder, gentler officials of mind control.
I also believe that in KHK the abuse came and went. In 1983, I remember hearing about how insane things used to be, how groups of newcomers would charge the doors en masse and acutally fight--a cozy thought in my head then--and how pile-ons and harsh force were used much more frequently. Perhaps I and my fellow prisoners were not doing our duty.
But I saw blood, daily pile-ons. I experienced a good dose of solitary confinement myself. I watched a staff member repeatedly slam a newcomer against a wall in the intake room. I saw a kid forced to sit in his own urine. I saw another kid slam his broken arm, in a cast, on one of the church pews, over and over again, as staff continued to egg him on, tears pouring down his face. I watched them throw us the last of the Southern Frontier cuisine unto the grimy floors--fish cakes, usually--as a competition to see who could get to it first. Who was hungry enough to eat off the floor. And much, much more.
I'm not diminishing any of this. But the things you and I saw and experienced are bad enough, and you and I both know that things were much, much worse in Straight. And that says a lot, for the degree of abuse in KHK was refined and overwhelming. It's inconceivable for the average person to understand how much worse it could get. And it did. In Milford and many other places.
Well, hello again Richard.
-DP
Yes. Fornits is a cult. Why else would I keep coming back? But beautiful job on 11/30!
I definitely don't feel that it is a cult but ok I get the joke.
-DP
and thanks about 11/30 I try hard, suffered frost bite on my right big toe and am still repairing tissue damage on it as we speak.
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A voice from nowhere
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 2:38 am Post subject:
And one more thing. I suppose my tendency to minimize the KHK experience stems from my frustration at the lack of former KHK people posting here and elsewhere. One theory for this keeps coming back to me. Perhaps the vocal unhappy Straightlings are legion and we are not because of the physical torture. And because it did occur more frequently in Straight, this is the reason why Fornits hears from many more of them than us. It's the only plausible reason I've ever been able to come up with, because, again, KHK was identical in every other way. After my final escape, I met former inmates who were just as unhappy and disgusted with the experience as I was. And that was only from my time, my group. But where are they now? I met only one in 2006, and he expressed the same frustration.
I agree completely. There was definitely an element of abuse in KHK, but it was noting compared to what I have read about straight. Also, the abuse was not as outright or physical. When I was there, restraints happened almost daily. Kids sat in time out rooms for hours and hours on end, without being allowed to use the restroom. I didn't see staff bang anyones head against a wall though, no one getting punched in the face. So I think that I shouldn't say anything, because, hey, it could have been so much worse. Also, how do you explain the psychological damage that is done? Just describing the program doesn't do it, that just gets you crazy looks. So, I agree with you, that is why not as many KHK people post. I have talked to several graduates who are struggling with the same issues as myself. But in the end, we sum it up as something that was really shitty, but what could we do about it? The conversation usually ends with, "that was a long time ago, it's probably better to move one from it" So they bury those memories, and march on with their lives. I wonder if they have it right.