Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: try another castle on November 23, 2007, 06:25:32 AM
-
Maybe this would be too specific, but I think it would be a great idea if there were wiki entries specific to each facility that list the full names of the staff we knew/remembered, their history, and where they are now/what they are doing.
Kind of like a watch list. It would come up in google, and paint a different picture of these people than what the parents may be reading on the facility's site. (if the staff still work with children.)
Obviously, it would be wise to stay away from saying things such as the fact that Tim Brace acted like a tweaked-out retarded monkey fetus and instead try to be a bit more articulate regarding his transgressions. (i.e. fondling the male students.) since this would serve more as an expose than a venting ground like the forum. Their bios and carnage trail can be documented in a more organized format that is easier to run index searches on.
The wiki is the best format to do this, because I think almost everyone might know something about a staff that the rest of us do not. This way, everyone can contribute.
I think that if the staff watch list happens, that page should be the first thing that comes up when a troubled parent googles one of those fuckers' names.
I don't know how much I can contribute to the CEDU list right now, but I can monitor it and make changes if need be, if someone else would like to start one.
-
Obviously, it would be wise to stay away from saying things such as the fact that Tim Brace acted like a tweaked-out retarded monkey fetus and instead try to be a bit more articulate regarding his transgressions. (i.e. fondling the male students.) since this would serve more as an expose than a venting ground like the forum. Their bios and carnage trail can be documented in a more organized format that is easier to run index searches on
You are getting the idea, castle..… you have about 2 maybe three sentences to get and maintain a parents attention, when they visit here. They are looking for information from a mature informed source and if they hear things like, tweaked-out retarded monkey fetus to describe staff members or words like Gulags, kiddy prisons, incarceration etc. you are going to lose them because they will quickly realize the person who wrote it was a kid who is angry and chances are they already have a kid like that at home and will move on to a more mature site or the individual school sites.
...
-
While living a short time in Boonville, MO, set up by Robert Litchfield, Randall Hinton was reported to the local sheriff?s office for punishing his three-year-old daughter by locking her outside the front door of their home in the evening, when it was cold outside. The child was reported to have been visibly upset and banging on the door as Randall stood right there and watched. When the police arrived on the scene Randall lied and told them that she must have accidentally locked herself out. However, a next door neighbor, who had been the one to make the 911 call, told the sheriff that he was standing there watching her the entire time...
-
why would the word incarceration be a "turnoff" to any reasonable parent? If somebody is sent against their will to a secure facility where communication with the outside world, and access to media is either denied or heavily monitored and they can not leave the place, incarceration is what it is.
As a person who deliberately bates young people who may seem a bit extreme at times but who are often in genuine distress over an apparently hideous experience it is a bit rich to be lecturing on how to sound reasonable.
Oz girl
-
why would the word incarceration be a "turnoff" to any reasonable parent? If somebody is sent against their will to a secure facility where communication with the outside world, and access to media is either denied or heavily monitored and they can not leave the place, incarceration is what it is.
As a person who deliberately bates young people who may seem a bit extreme at times but who are often in genuine distress over an apparently hideous experience it is a bit rich to be lecturing on how to sound reasonable.
Oz girl
Any public or private school could fit those terms also (we called our high school a prison). We didn’t want to be there, couldn’t leave, could talk when we wanted, no contact with the outside world, no access to media… so we could say we were incarcerated… but out parents and the school officials didn’t refer to the schools this way…… could parents really get information about other highschools thru the kids? They would get the same response.. “All high schools are the same.. they are places of incarceration and forced learning etc…â€
-
Reality:
TheWho knows of exactly zero real parents who weren't already on ST, who have found Fornits and found it to their liking or not to their liking.
Exactly zero real "newbie" parents consult TheWho after being introduced to Fornits. This is common sense. Most of them don't even get accounts. MANY TIMES more people lurk here than post.
ST is a ghost town, and a sealed ghost town at that.
TheWho is trying to set himself up as some sort of informative guide, which he is not, and has never been. His claims of talking to real parents are entirely bullshit, like most of what he says.
"Kiddie prisons" and "teen gulags" are too accurate for his taste, so he is attempting to use more disinformation to stop us from costing him more business.
Yes, real parents, this is what these people do. Enjoy your stay.
-
Reality:
TheWho knows of exactly zero real parents who weren't already on ST, who have found Fornits and found it to their liking or not to their liking.
Exactly zero real "newbie" parents consult TheWho after being introduced to Fornits. This is common sense. Most of them don't even get accounts. MANY TIMES more people lurk here than post.
ST is a ghost town, and a sealed ghost town at that.
TheWho is trying to set himself up as some sort of informative guide, which he is not, and has never been. His claims of talking to real parents are entirely bullshit, like most of what he says.
"Kiddie prisons" and "teen gulags" are too accurate for his taste, so he is attempting to use more disinformation to stop us from costing him more business.
Yes, real parents, this is what these people do. Enjoy your stay.
Well, I certainly agree with you on this part. I will go a step further and say Vitually all parents do not post or log-in at all !! Many lurk and read and some end up emailing me privately and I do the best I can to answer their questions.... but I think people on fornits could do a better job in supplying honest up to date info... which would save me one-on-one time with many of these parents.
...
...
-
not even any real boarding school could be referred to in these terms! When I was a boarder girls would jokingly refer to it as the gulag. they would also call their friends unmonitored to moan or go home for an exeat. Afterschool we would hang at the local mall till dinner time. It was not a prison at all!
Even regular American boarding schools which tend to be more structured in terms of freedoms than their Australian counterparts are not prisons because the kids choose to be there and are not cut off from the outside world. Only somebody who is willfully blind, or deliberately trying to trivialize what these places are about would make such an absurd claim! But then people who abuse often do try to minimalize the suffering of their victims
Oz girl
-
Absolute proof that TheWho is lying, again:
Step 1: Log out if you're already logged in.
Step 2: Click the "Email" button below TheWho's name.
Hey, look! You need to log in to email someone on this forum. But wait, how does that square with TheWho's assertion that parents who don't have accounts are emailing him?
He's trying to create an artificial bandwagon of people who take him seriously, and it's laughable.
Real parents, again: YES, this is what these people do. It's really, really pathetic once you cut through the thin veneer. This man cannot even be trusted not to lie about basic stuff on a forum, and he expects you to trust him with your KIDS? :lol:
Of course, this is just more thread derailment, so...
If you know of staff at one shithole who have moved to another one, get on the Wiki and post that shit.
-
thewho's email is common knowledge and has been posted everywhere
thewhomail@gmail.com
-
It's only been posted twice (before just now) in August 2007. The idea that parents are going to go read through that much of Fornits and then decide to email him is a fucking joke.
Go on, parents! Go ahead and email him. And then post the convo. :lol:
-
not even any real boarding school could be referred to in these terms! When I was a boarder girls would jokingly refer to it as the gulag. they would also call their friends unmonitored to moan or go home for an exeat. Afterschool we would hang at the local mall till dinner time. It was not a prison at all!
Even regular American boarding schools which tend to be more structured in terms of freedoms than their Australian counterparts are not prisons because the kids choose to be there and are not cut off from the outside world. Only somebody who is willfully blind, or deliberately trying to trivialize what these places are about would make such an absurd claim! But then people who abuse often do try to minimalize the suffering of their victims
Oz girl
Of course they are not, but kids jokingly refer to them as prisons because they cannot leave when they want. Many boarding schools don’t al low the kids to have cars and very little access to get to town.
Kids in high schools in the US are not allowed to leave school at all during the day (some cannot leave the grounds during lunch) thus the prison life in some kids minds!!
When kids say this the parents smile and know it is just the kids mentality of how they view themselves being forced to go to school.
The same with TBS's .. they are much stricter but many of them you can just leave if you want (walk away if you don’t like it), you can go into town on the weekends and see a movie... you cant do this in prison. This is not minimalizing or trivializing the TBS’s…. the strictness of them are actually their strengths.
...
-
Hrm, it looks like he's just going for the derailment, not even caring about his massive credibility shortfall.
IF YOU HAVE ANY INFORMATION ON STAFF MOVING FROM ONE SHITHOLE TO ANOTHER, POST IT ON THE WIKI. If you don't know how to use the Wiki, ask.
-
It's only been posted twice (before just now) in August 2007. The idea that parents are going to go read through that much of Fornits and then decide to email him is a fucking joke.
Go on, parents! Go ahead and email him. And then post the convo. :lol:
Of all the parents I have spoken to I havent seen our conversation reposted here on fornits once. I never asked any of the parents not to repost our conversations because I feel they are open and honest... I am never trying to hide anything... if a parent wants to repost their conversation with me it would be okay... it may actually help answer questions that many other parents have.
...
-
Maybe this would be too specific, but I think it would be a great idea if there were wiki entries specific to each facility that list the full names of the staff we knew/remembered, their history, and where they are now/what they are doing.
Kind of like a watch list. It would come up in google, and paint a different picture of these people than what the parents may be reading on the facility's site. (if the staff still work with children.)
Obviously, it would be wise to stay away from saying things such as the fact that Tim Brace acted like a tweaked-out retarded monkey fetus and instead try to be a bit more articulate regarding his transgressions. (i.e. fondling the male students.) since this would serve more as an expose than a venting ground like the forum. Their bios and carnage trail can be documented in a more organized format that is easier to run index searches on.
The wiki is the best format to do this, because I think almost everyone might know something about a staff that the rest of us do not. This way, everyone can contribute.
I think that if the staff watch list happens, that page should be the first thing that comes up when a troubled parent googles one of those fuckers' names.
I don't know how much I can contribute to the CEDU list right now, but I can monitor it and make changes if need be, if someone else would like to start one.
Did you already start this page yet? If so is there a link? I can add a few names of ppl who have moved around schools
-
wiki.fornits.com
You need no one's permission to start making pages.
-
Okay, first of all, these wiki entries would not be about the nature of our detainment and incarceration as it pertains to the program structure.
These entries are NOT ABOUT US. As self-absorbed as we are, not everything is about us. This is ABOUT THEM. What they have done, their transgressions, and also, some of the staff that made an effort to buck the system the brief time they were there, and maybe made a difference. (I know at least two people who did that for me. They eventually got fired because they were too subversive and tried to make all of us WAKE THE FUCK UP.)
But primarily, its a watch list. Of STAFF. Not program. We have plenty of entries on that, and more are always needed.
And honesty? Give me a break. A lot of this will be testimony. The truth will always be questioned by doubters, so victims will always be held up to scrutiny. That's just how it is in this society; for rape victims, incest victims, program victims. I don't care about those nay sayers, because in reality, we have no motivation to lie. What happened to us was real, and our perps need to be exposed for what they are and what they have done. We know we are telling the truth, it's just a question of wording it properly so others will hear it. This does not mean censoring ourselves or candy-coating it. It is simply an issue of semantics and verbage, nothing more. This is why I am willing to "edit" entries, not for content, but for wording. And as always, if you don't like it, you can change it back. Wiki is open.
However, I am way too busy to start making pages about staff. I am graduating in two quarters and I have way too much on my mind. I can instead help with pages that have already been started.
The fact of the matter is, very little documented data exists on these people. Very few have been prosecuted, except for some of the bigwigs. The program is like the church. They keep their offenders and transfer them, or they fire them and keep the offenses hush hush. As such, some of the most reliable information we have is out of our own mouths and keyboards.
-
my understanding is that it is of where staff have come from and where they now are
eg randal hinton worked at tranquility bay when it closed was employed at ______
confessed to pepper spraying boy was arrested and convicted of assault.
Is it this sort of thing or it it mainly testimony from survivors like on issac?
-
my understanding is that it is of where staff have come from and where they now are
eg randal hinton worked at tranquility bay when it closed was employed at ______
confessed to pepper spraying boy was arrested and convicted of assault.
Is it this sort of thing or it it mainly testimony from survivors like on issac?
It's both. It's everything there is to know about these people. It is an expose.
-
I know this because I have talked to parents who have been here and/or whom I have referred here and the majority feel that 99% of the posters are kids who are angry with their past and families or school they attended and couldn’t find any honest answers. Most of what they heard was not current information and most are looking for how these places are today, advances they have made, differences from school to school (which I think we can all understand isn’t available here). I try to provide that as best I can but many of you people are in a much better position to give them honest insight into each school. This would also alleviate many of my off board discussions with these parents if they could get the information directly from you guys. I never refer them to Edcons but sometimes I feel it may be best for them because I don’t always have the answers to their questions and getting them here is tough at best.
& this is why there are documents being compiled about TheWho and other industry types - because the day is coming where folks like TheWho will be accountable to the parents and children he "counsels" off-board. The anon postings (are they really anon, nope) and off-board 'advice" have a very specific legal gravity.
I see TheWho has been less ardent in posting and he is wise for doing so, in that federal and state agencies are involved in monitoring this site for info and other purposes; (in terms of "TBS" abuse etc etc.) There is little reliable info - fornits can be abrasive but it's not marketing to anyone either. Asking an edcon or program parent to critique TBS is like asking Phillip Morris to talk about lung cancer - it's not happening.
To those of you who fight the abuse, keep the faith.
-
I know this because I have talked to parents who have been here and/or whom I have referred here and the majority feel that 99% of the posters are kids who are angry with their past and families or school they attended and couldn’t find any honest answers. Most of what they heard was not current information and most are looking for how these places are today, advances they have made, differences from school to school (which I think we can all understand isn’t available here). I try to provide that as best I can but many of you people are in a much better position to give them honest insight into each school. This would also alleviate many of my off board discussions with these parents if they could get the information directly from you guys. I never refer them to Edcons but sometimes I feel it may be best for them because I don’t always have the answers to their questions and getting them here is tough at best.
& this is why there are documents being compiled about TheWho and other industry types - because the day is coming where folks like TheWho will be accountable to the parents and children he "counsels" off-board. The anon postings (are they really anon, nope) and off-board 'advice" have a very specific legal gravity.
I see TheWho has been less ardent in posting and he is wise for doing so, in that federal and state agencies are involved in monitoring this site for info and other purposes; (in terms of "TBS" abuse etc etc.) There is little reliable info - fornits can be abrasive but it's not marketing to anyone either. Asking an edcon or program parent to critique TBS is like asking Phillip Morris to talk about lung cancer - it's not happening.
To those of you who fight the abuse, keep the faith.
You are going to hold the Who responsible for what???? Puhleese, because he has talked to a few parents. Told them of his experiences with ASR? Referred parents to professionals who could help find the right place for their teen?
That's nonsense!!!! Good luck though, LOL!!!!!!!!!!
-
CCM girl said
You are going to hold the Who responsible for what???? Puhleese, because he has talked to a few parents. Told them of his experiences with ASR? Referred parents to professionals who could help find the right place for their teen?
That's nonsense!!!! Good luck though, LOL!!!!!!!!!!
-
TheWho said -
Chuck, If you are concered with too many people getting involved I will be in Atlanta next week and we can sit down and hammer out a plan, just the two of us. I wouldnt mind checking the site out myself while I am there but I will not give you an answer either way, my driver is sick so I will be using Mindys, but we can talk after we get out of the car..... I dont want to discuss this on the way there. Confirm your plans with Jenna and I will work thru her.
I have not spoken to any parents who had children attend Phoenix house, so I cannot comment, but I haven’t heard any negative comments coming from that direction if that helps.
There are many options out there for you, but if you are dealing strictly with addiction issues I have seen some great success at a place called Hazelden, which is in Minnesota, just north of Minneapolis. It is a bit on the expensive side (insurance won’t cover much, if any of the cost) but they are extremely successful at getting a person off drugs and stabilized and do cater to youth services. The follow-up/ long term success varies depending on the individual and how they stick to their plan.
http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=23486&sid=0bf02fa784bca395166174727521c7e7
Just so we are straight about TheWho's role here - it's isn't just "advice" - he is playing a very active role behind the scenes IRL. Actually meeting prospective parents and taking them to facilities, CCMgirl - that sounds legally liable to me. Also culling parents from fornits with fiduciary duty to some facilties would be akin to insider trading. Not legal. But all of TheWho's prodigious postings will come back to haunt him soon.
-
hazelden.
Isn't that the "million little pieces" rehab?
-
hazelden.
Isn't that the "million little pieces" rehab?
yes, but considering the entire story has proven to be greatly exaggerated (read:an enormous lie) - hazelden doesn't really figure into this.
I've just been coming across allllll these old archives (and not so old) of who postings. interesting. very interesting.
-
TheWho said -
Chuck, If you are concered with too many people getting involved I will be in Atlanta next week and we can sit down and hammer out a plan, just the two of us. I wouldnt mind checking the site out myself while I am there but I will not give you an answer either way, my driver is sick so I will be using Mindys, but we can talk after we get out of the car..... I dont want to discuss this on the way there. Confirm your plans with Jenna and I will work thru her.
I have not spoken to any parents who had children attend Phoenix house, so I cannot comment, but I haven’t heard any negative comments coming from that direction if that helps.
There are many options out there for you, but if you are dealing strictly with addiction issues I have seen some great success at a place called Hazelden, which is in Minnesota, just north of Minneapolis. It is a bit on the expensive side (insurance won’t cover much, if any of the cost) but they are extremely successful at getting a person off drugs and stabilized and do cater to youth services. The follow-up/ long term success varies depending on the individual and how they stick to their plan.
http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=23486&sid=0bf02fa784bca395166174727521c7e7
Just so we are straight about TheWho's role here - it's isn't just "advice" - he is playing a very active role behind the scenes IRL. Actually meeting prospective parents and taking them to facilities, CCMgirl - that sounds legally liable to me. Also culling parents from fornits with fiduciary duty to some facilties would be akin to insider trading. Not legal. But all of TheWho's prodigious postings will come back to haunt him soon.
unlikely. but good luck.
-
Category persons on Fornits Wiki (http://http://www.fornits.com/wiki/index.php/Category:Persons)
But be nice and state where they have worked and what they are doing now.
If they have appeared in the media or they are mentioned in a tread you can put it under External Links