Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: SettleForNothingLess on November 22, 2007, 12:41:04 AM
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Well I have been counting thru my restraint logs.. so far 98 restraints in less than a 6 month period... BASTARDS....
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restrained for what and which gulag?
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Properly for moving away from bed without permission.
Peninsula Village (http://http://www.fornits.com/wiki/index.php/Peninsula_Village)
Look at this video
PV Video (http://http://www.peninsulavillage.org/pv-video1.cfm)
If those teenagers move off their bed without approval, they will have 6-8 staffmembers on the top of them within minutes and if they don't learn the rules fast enough, they will also be given new clothes. (http://http://www.posey.com/poseystore/files/I9237.pdf)
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::puke::
Thanks dude you just fucked up my day with that video, kill PV! :flame:
hanzomon4
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::puke::
Thanks dude you just fucked up my day with that video, kill PV! :flame:
hanzomon4
hell ya may they burn in hell.... god 98... holy shiiiiiat
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Well I have been counting thru my restraint logs.. so far 98 restraints in less than a 6 month period... BASTARDS....
I am truly very sorry for you. Witnessing my child in one improper PV restraint was the worst thing I have ever seen. It is still not easy going about day to day with that vision (and her agonizing screams) embedded in my subconscious.
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HOly fuck...
The latest in Posey Fall Fashions just freaked me the fuck out.
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Well I have been counting thru my restraint logs.. so far 98 restraints in less than a 6 month period... BASTARDS....
I am truly very sorry for you. Witnessing my child in one improper PV restraint was the worst thing I have ever seen. It is still not easy going about day to day with that vision (and her agonizing screams) embedded in my subconscious.
PV restrained you 98 times? I have read through some of these threads and a lot of posters say PV doesn't use TCI. On the PV website they have two counselors who they say are instructers of TCI.
We were terrified when there was a restraint and we were not allowed to look at restraints when they happened.
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Lols. they claim they do USE TCI, but never have I ever practiced TCI with 6 to 8 staffers. Most I ever had to use was myself and another and the restraints were over 3 to 5 minutes after they started.
The one time it went longer a program director told us to get off the kid and he snatched him off the ground with one hand by the shirt and marched him off and made him sit down on the front porch of the office.
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Lols. they claim they do USE TCI, but never have I ever practiced TCI with 6 to 8 staffers. Most I ever had to use was myself and another and the restraints were over 3 to 5 minutes after they started.
The one time it went longer a program director told us to get off the kid and he snatched him off the ground with one hand by the shirt and marched him off and made him sit down on the front porch of the office.
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Well I have been counting thru my restraint logs.. so far 98 restraints in less than a 6 month period... BASTARDS....
That is awfully strange and I think many parents will find it hard to believe. These are designed for extreme measures and you claim they used this on almost a daily basis on a young girl? My daughter kept a journal but I never heard of the kids keeping a restraint log before. All the restraints that you say you had result in one every other day for 6 months. I have seen the Posey… how were you able to eat, go to classes, the bathroom or write in your journal during those days you were in the posey?
Just curious.
…
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The restraint log is that kept by the facility.. she had to get a lawyer to force PV to hand over all her records.. and then pay them 350 bucks for them..
And 98? Shit girl.. Weak.. you weren't trying hard enough.. I had a kid who racked up nearly that many in 1 month.
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Whootie, didn't we have a discussion recently about questioning program survivors' "claims", as you call them? The program Settle was in, Peninsula Village, gives a handbook to parents that instructs them to disbelieve their children if they claim they're being physically abused, or one of their peers is a "psycho", it's an attempt to manipulate the parent. As Che Gookin mentioned, these are Settle's records from Peninsula, they documented the shit. Kids at PV aren't allowed to journal, don't assume kids in other programs had the same privileges your daughter did at ASR
What do we know about PV?
1. They do overuse physical restraint and improper TCI's. As Che Gookin pointed out, a TCI should take at most two people, not a gang-assault and pile-up on a kid who's face-down. Face-down restraints are the most dangerous kind.
2. The child's peer could well be dangerous and unstable, I won't use "psycho" since no one under eighteen can be diagnosed as a psychopath. Despite PV's claims to not accept violent/sexual offenders, they admitted Andrew Klepper, convicted as an adult in MD for plotting to lure a female escort to his home with the con they were going to make a porn film. When the woman arrived, Klepper assaulted the woman and sodomized her with a baseball bat and a Magic Marker while his friends watched. After he finished, Klepper robbed the woman and threatened her with more harm if she reported the crime. His "punishment" was Peninsula Village. Dominic Hawranke was convicted as an adult in Charlottesville VA of conspiracy to commit murder and conspiracy to use an explosive device to blow up a school. Hawranke had boasted about the plot on friends' MySpace blogs. On one of the other conspirator's blogs, Hawranke wrote:
“IM SOOOO [expletive] READY FOR THIS [expletive] DAY TO COME DUDE [expletive] ALL THIS [expletive] AROUND US [expletive] IT TO HELL." He was sent to Peninsula Village after seven months in Juvie.
[/list]
So what is PV - a therapeutic program for emotionally troubled youth, kids suffering from depression, anorexia, addiction, cutting, or is it a detention unit for violent youth? PV's both, because they all get thrown into the same milieu, cutters with sodomizers, anorexics with homicidal kids. No separation, and PV uses "peer-on-peer" confrontation which is disturbing considering the mix of kids. Aggressive, violent youths already convicted of enticing others into criminal conspiracy are going to see they get rewarded for calling group (snitching) on other patients and prey on the weaker kids like hyenas.
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. Were there any restraints that were not written up?
What were some of the typical reasons that they put on the form to justify the restraint?
On the days that you were restrained did you also attend school? If not how many days of the school year were lost?
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Whootie, didn't we have a discussion recently about questioning program survivors' "claims", as you call them?.....
Yes, I remember the discussion… you must have missed the posters here not believing a parents story and calling him/her a troll… it should work both ways… but I am still open minded regardless… so I guess it is okay to question all posters and that is all I am doing.
…..don't assume kids in other programs had the same privileges your daughter did at ASR
Finally…………., I have been fighting a mentality here on fornits for years stating that all programs are alike. Its good to hear some posters are finally admitting there is a difference other than the color paint on the doors. I accept that, Zen, maybe PV is more abusive than most !! Maybe they restrain kids every day, but this doesn’t happen in other places.
…… because they all get thrown into the same milieu, cutters with sodomizers, anorexics with homicidal kids.
Dispels the other belief and assumptions that there isn’t anything wrong with any of the kids who go to these places. I have read people posting here who claim the kids don’t need any help or were on their way to a great life until their parents pulled them away and sent them to a TBS for no reason.
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Whootie, didn't we have a discussion recently about questioning program survivors' "claims", as you call them?.....
Yes, I remember the discussion… you must have missed the posters here not believing a parents story and calling him/her a troll… it should work both ways… but I am still open minded regardless… so I guess it is okay to question all posters and that is all I am doing.
These other posters don't identify themselves. Sorry to single you out.
…..don't assume kids in other programs had the same privileges your daughter did at ASR
Finally…………., I have been fighting a mentality here on fornits for years stating that all programs are alike. Its good to hear some posters are finally admitting there is a difference other than the color paint on the doors. I accept that, Zen, maybe PV is more abusive than most !! Maybe they restrain kids every day, but this doesn’t happen in other places.
…… because they all get thrown into the same milieu, cutters with sodomizers, anorexics with homicidal kids.
Dispels the other belief and assumptions that there isn’t anything wrong with any of the kids who go to these places. I have read people posting here who claim the kids don’t need any help or were on their way to a great life until their parents pulled them away and sent them to a TBS for no reason.
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Not true, and that's my point. There's a financial need to fill empty beds in programs - you should know the nature of the business - and ethics tend to come a distant second to job security. There's the false advertising and one-size-fits-all treatment that is seductive to parents who may be dealing with a normal teenager, they just don't have the time or desire to work on their parenting skills in all-inclusive family therapy. They opt for residential treatment which is often "daddy-dictated" or "mommy-dictated" in split families. The program is going to follow the lead of the parent who pays, how harshly are they going to criticize the paying parent if they discover he/she is the primary cause of the trouble?
This is all business, bad business.
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Why isn't he banned yet?
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Why isn't he banned yet?
Yes, banned for his excessive buttfuckery.
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Finally…………., I have been fighting a mentality here on fornits for years stating that all programs are alike. Its good to hear some posters are finally admitting there is a difference other than the color paint on the doors. I accept that, Zen, maybe PV is more abusive than most !! Maybe they restrain kids every day, but this doesn’t happen in other places
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So can you please specifically name a place that does not incarcerate a young person without trial and which allows completely uncensored contact with whomever the student desires?
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No he's going to say that its OK for a program to trample parental rights because its 'more fun' to visit the program instead of take the girl out of it. :roll:
When Psy is back after I congratulate him, I need to kick him in the taint.
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Finally…………., I have been fighting a mentality here on fornits for years stating that all programs are alike. Its good to hear some posters are finally admitting there is a difference other than the color paint on the doors. I accept that, Zen, maybe PV is more abusive than most !! Maybe they restrain kids every day, but this doesn’t happen in other places
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So can you please specifically name a place that does not incarcerate a young person without trial and which allows completely uncensored contact with whomever the student desires?
I don’t think a place exists, to tell you the truth. From the time a child is born until he/she reaches legal age, they are incarcerated. They are sent to day care against their will…. Placed into institutionalized schooling at age 5. If they refuse to get on the bus then the parents must drive them and place them into the hands of people they don’t know. The kids are denied individual identity in many cases and told what to wear… no contact with the outside world… they are sent from room to room like cattle and fed the same way, with very little options of the food they can eat. If the child steps out of line they are further isolated into detention with no contact with friends and not allowed to speak or communicate with family. They are subjected to a constant behavior modification plan their entire lives with the focus being on compliance to social norms and education.
It is absolutely awful…. The only way out of this is to have parents who homes school or to run away at age 4 ½ and live on the streets.
So spending a few months in a TBS can be a breath of fresh air for many kids.
@ Zen, almost everything you stated can be true of a local high school or boarding school.
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@ Zen, almost everything you stated can be true of a local high school or boarding school.
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"Almost everything"? That's a bit dodgy - What local high school has teachers who pile-up five high on a face-down kid and ignore them when they say they can't breathe?
Which boarding school cuts-off a child's communication with parents who question the school's policies or ask for curriculum vitae on the staff?
What public or private school denies a child's right to be creative? PV allows no journaling, no drawing, no listening to music, no access to musical instruments, no poetry. No expression of self, the kids can do nothing but sit...and wait.
What public or private school is allowed to keep kids locked in a unit with no exposure to the outside for months at a time?
What public or private school is allowed to open and "inspect" incoming and outgoing mail?
What public or private school do you know of with a "no eye contact" rule for students?
I've been able to contrast my high school experience with my step-daughter's at PV, and see no similarities at all. It's like comparing Alcatraz to Romper Room. The worst thing that could happen in high school for me was suspension or expulsion. At PV, expulsion would seem like a gift.
Maybe they restrain kids every day, but this doesn’t happen in other places.
Would you please post the names of the other places you know to be completely free of abuse? I would appreciate the information.
You say it doesn't happen in other places - does that devalue what my wife and step-daughter went through? Do you view their experiences as an "exception", a freak occurrence? Maybe you're comfortable with writing them off that way, but I have a lot of difficulty with that. That's my family. We didn't have any say in the program - my wife and I were unaware these places existed, and look at PV's website....it's a summer camp with smiling faces in the great outdoors. We didn't realize that investigating the place and asking questions about the treatment methods would screw the website's illusion and interfere with the "therapeutic process".
When you say "this doesn't happen in other places", you're insulting the people who went through places like PV - is it their fault they were put in the "wrong" place? Keep "breaking them down", even after they're out of the program. Who's capable of building them back up? Do you consider the program survivors to be liars? Doing a program by program inspection to sort "bad" from "good" would be idiotic - as soon as the heat lifted, program drift would take the places right back to the old physically violent, verbally abusive "tough love".
You've said not all programs are the same, but all programs are part of the "industry"(hate that term), so isn't it logical that we need "industry"-wide Federal regulations? If some programs are regulated out of existence, which is a common industry whine, so be it. They shouldn't be in operation if they can't meet Federal regulations.
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Examples of mechanical restraints used at Peninsula Village include: body net (A soft nylon net that is placed over the adolescent while lying on a restraint bed and secured so that they can not injure themselves or others. The body net typically reaches from the adolecents's shoulders to calves,), and restraint jacket (A thick canvas jacket with straps that go around to keep the adolescent's arms tucked by their sides. The restraints jacket typically reaches to the hip area so the adolescent has free movement of their legs.)
So the parents should not be shocked. They must have read this manual before admission and have decided that this kind of torture is OK for their child.
One question remains to be asked. They also state:
It will not be used in a manner that causes undue physical discomfort, parm or pain to the adolecent.
But are the use of these restraints not by nature causing discomfort?
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Well I'll tell you about the good program that helped me to get my life back on track: SIBS. With its BD/SM therapy, SIBS provided the discipline I desperately needed to be real with myself and start taking responsibility. I'm a straight A student again thanks to the staff and group at SIBS!
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Let stay on focus and forget places like SIBS or Foreland Hamlet (http://http://www.geocities.com/meditationinlet/mi_fh.htm) as described in the short story Runaways (http://http://www.geocities.com/meditationinlet/mi_fh.htm)
Who resembles "Dr. Wits" in reality?
Let us start another tread if we are going to talk about fiction, but please reserve this tread to the cruel reality about treatment in Tennessee.
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Runaways (http://http://www.asstr.org/files//Authors/JensenDenmark/www/runaways.htm)
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"Almost everything"? That's a bit dodgy - What local high school has teachers who pile-up five high on a face-down kid and ignore them when they say they can't breathe?
Which boarding school cuts-off a child's communication with parents who question the school's policies or ask for curriculum vitae on the staff?
What public or private school denies a child's right to be creative? PV allows no journaling, no drawing, no listening to music, no access to musical instruments, no poetry. No expression of self, the kids can do nothing but sit...and wait.
What public or private school is allowed to keep kids locked in a unit with no exposure to the outside for months at a time?
What public or private school is allowed to open and "inspect" incoming and outgoing mail?
What public or private school do you know of with a "no eye contact" rule for students?
I've been able to contrast my high school experience with my step-daughter's at PV, and see no similarities at all. It's like comparing Alcatraz to Romper Room. The worst thing that could happen in high school for me was suspension or expulsion. At PV, expulsion would seem like a gift.
I haven’t seen any kids being jumped on by teachers in our public school system, but I have seen kids placed in isolation for minor offenses for hours at a time with no communication with their parents or others, no eye contact, no talking,no free expression and the person watching them has no training in emergency procedures. Our local school subjects between 5 and 14 kids a day to this.
These kids are not allowed to receive mail at all and if they do it is withheld from them (which should be a federal offense according to some here).
We have had teachers take kids across the Mexican border for the purpose of having sex with them, some teachers have sex with students on field trips and in the parking lot, yet the public schools still stay open.
Would you please post the names of the other places you know to be completely free of abuse? I would appreciate the information.
You say it doesn't happen in other places - does that devalue what my wife and step-daughter went through? Do you view their experiences as an "exception", a freak occurrence? Maybe you're comfortable with writing them off that way, but I have a lot of difficulty with that. That's my family. We didn't have any say in the program - my wife and I were unaware these places existed, and look at PV's website....it's a summer camp with smiling faces in the great outdoors. We didn't realize that investigating the place and asking questions about the treatment methods would screw the website's illusion and interfere with the "therapeutic process".
When you say "this doesn't happen in other places", you're insulting the people who went through places like PV - is it their fault they were put in the "wrong" place? Keep "breaking them down", even after they're out of the program. Who's capable of building them back up? Do you consider the program survivors to be liars? Doing a program by program inspection to sort "bad" from "good" would be idiotic - as soon as the heat lifted, program drift would take the places right back to the old physically violent, verbally abusive "tough love".
You've said not all programs are the same, but all programs are part of the "industry"(hate that term), so isn't it logical that we need "industry"-wide Federal regulations? If some programs are regulated out of existence, which is a common industry whine, so be it. They shouldn't be in operation if they can't meet Federal regulations.
Zen, I actually know how you feel as far as others devaluing your (and your families) experience. I have been on the other end of the spectrum, had a great experience and have seen parents come on here to ask specific question regarding a school only to have events (which never even happened at that particular school) brought up as examples of what will happen to their kids. I have had my experiences ignored or questioned, my family disrespected, called a liar.
Talking about Posey restraints, and saying it happens in all schools, is an insult to those schools who don’t use them. My daughter never saw one used in the 14 months she attended her school. No one ever sat on her or anyone she knows.
I, personally disagree with you in that it would not be a great service and effort to identify and separate the better schools from those who abuse kids, those that use restraints and escorts vs. those that do not. Etc.
Regulation may or may not work… personally I don’t put a lot of faith in the government to keep our kids safe and I agree, if regulation puts the schools out of business then they were not any good to begin with and the really bad ones will have to conform ---- but it wont effect (or could even hurt) the schools which are presently doing a good job in turning the kids around and getting them back on track.
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Let stay on focus and forget places like SIBS or Foreland Hamlet (http://http://www.geocities.com/meditationinlet/mi_fh.htm) as described in the short story Runaways (http://http://www.asstr.org/files//Authors/JensenDenmark/www/runaways.htm)
Who resembles "Dr. Wits" in reality?
Ahem.. I'd say I resemble that remark.. :wave:
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Examples of mechanical restraints used at Peninsula Village include: body net (A soft nylon net that is placed over the adolescent while lying on a restraint bed and secured so that they can not injure themselves or others. The body net typically reaches from the adolecents's shoulders to calves,), and restraint jacket (A thick canvas jacket with straps that go around to keep the adolescent's arms tucked by their sides. The restraints jacket typically reaches to the hip area so the adolescent has free movement of their legs.)
So the parents should not be shocked. They must have read this manual before admission and have decided that this kind of torture is OK for their child.
One question remains to be asked. They also state:
It will not be used in a manner that causes undue physical discomfort, parm or pain to the adolecent.
But are the use of these restraints not by nature causing discomfort?
The manual for parents doesn't mention chemical restraints, which PV does use according to former patients. When I spoke with the DCS about the use of tranquilizers and such, the DCS investigator sighed and said "Well, they're allowed to use them," End of discussion there.
I do think it is deceptive to not mention the possibility of kids being whacked full of Thorazine or Klonopine in the parents' manual.
Covergaard, did the link to the story about PV in Metro Pulse from 1997, "Harsh Treatment", disappear? We've got saved copies with the full graphics and cover of the issue if you need it. Your Secretprisonsforteens' PV page is great.
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OK, Mr. WHO, If regulation will not effect, or even hurt, the ptrograms which are presently doing a good job - then why isn't EVERYBODY fighting for regulation to weed out the bad programs; or to help these programs that aren't dong a "good job" to come up to standards?
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OK, Mr. WHO, If regulation will not effect, or even hurt, the ptrograms which are presently doing a good job - then why isn't EVERYBODY fighting for regulation to weed out the bad programs; or to help these programs that aren't dong a "good job" to come up to standards?
For many reasons…… people don’t know about the industry unless they have a need for it. If their child did well and was helped by the school they attended then they have moved on… parents who had kids that were hurt by the industry probably would want regulation (like Zen Agent)… but the majority of the people within the industry wouldn’t want regulation…
The bad programs don’t want regulation because it might expose them and put them out of business. The good programs don’t want regulation because they would have to submit to a ton of bureaucratic paper work and requirements, submitting reports, tracking data they don’t see any value in etc.
For example, would you want DSS visiting you all the time? Do you call them up and ask them to stop over to inspect your place and check on your kids? Or do you think you do a good job with out them?
It’s the same with TBS’s
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Here is the other thing. I hate programs. But if they were regulated, which I'm all for--any inconvenience to them, I happily support. But--I still think you'd have rampant abuses. I just remember how phony we all were during parent visits.
The analogy I use is that since the NCLB act was legislated, schools have all this bureaucratic protocol we have to follow to ensure we cross every t and dot every i in terms of accounting for student success. Often, the procedures we undertake actually leave us less time to design banging lessons. Also, NCLB is NOT about building relationships--but doing paperwork. Every good teacher knows performance is best enhanced through a strong teacher-student dynamic. Yet--shitty teachers can still pass if they do the required accountability steps.... Same with programs.
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Well I have been counting thru my restraint logs.. so far 98 restraints in less than a 6 month period... BASTARDS....
You're telling me that you were restrained 98 times in less then a six month period? I can't even begin to imagine what that was like (if there were no repeats in those logs you're going through)?
I'm not calling you a liar. However, in my 4 years of being in programs I never saw a certain person, or individual being restrained that many times, not even halfway close. I was restrained about 10 times over a 4 year/4 different program stay, and I was one of the worse kids there. I don't know much about PV though. If that is the case, why did they keep you in this program, and not toss you out? I'm assuming when you are talking restraints, you are talking about full blown take downs, right?
Any, and all of the programs I was personally in would have tossed me out if I were to have behaved that badly. They just wouldn't have tolerated having me be such a negative influence on all the kids around me. Not only that, but it's tough on staff emotionally as well as physically to do that many take downs.
Wow, 98?!! Over 6 months? That's mind blowing. I didn't know PV to be so restraint happy?????
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I haven’t seen any kids being jumped on by teachers in our public school system, but I have seen kids placed in isolation for minor offenses for hours at a time with no communication with their parents or others, no eye contact, no talking,no free expression and the person watching them has no training in emergency procedures. Our local school subjects between 5 and 14 kids a day to this.
Hours, you say? No, a lockdown like PV will be months of that treatment, not hours. Most kids don't feel the need to communicate with their parents during the day in public school, they can do it when the get home.
These kids are not allowed to receive mail at all and if they do it is withheld from them (which should be a federal offense according to some here).
PV opens the mail and "scans" the incoming and outgoing mail, and yeah, that is a Federal offense.
We have had teachers take kids across the Mexican border for the purpose of having sex with them, some teachers have sex with students on field trips and in the parking lot, yet the public schools still stay open.
They drive them all the way from Newton, MA to Mexico? If you'll recall Ken Kay's remarks about staff/patient sexual activity, he didn't think it was a problem, because the kids were bad...
Would you please post the names of the other places you know to be completely free of abuse? I would appreciate the information.
You say it doesn't happen in other places - does that devalue what my wife and step-daughter went through? Do you view their experiences as an "exception", a freak occurrence? Maybe you're comfortable with writing them off that way, but I have a lot of difficulty with that. That's my family. We didn't have any say in the program - my wife and I were unaware these places existed, and look at PV's website....it's a summer camp with smiling faces in the great outdoors. We didn't realize that investigating the place and asking questions about the treatment methods would screw the website's illusion and interfere with the "therapeutic process".
When you say "this doesn't happen in other places", you're insulting the people who went through places like PV - is it their fault they were put in the "wrong" place? Keep "breaking them down", even after they're out of the program. Who's capable of building them back up? Do you consider the program survivors to be liars? Doing a program by program inspection to sort "bad" from "good" would be idiotic - as soon as the heat lifted, program drift would take the places right back to the old physically violent, verbally abusive "tough love".
You've said not all programs are the same, but all programs are part of the "industry"(hate that term), so isn't it logical that we need "industry"-wide Federal regulations? If some programs are regulated out of existence, which is a common industry whine, so be it. They shouldn't be in operation if they can't meet Federal regulations.
Zen, I actually know how you feel as far as others devaluing your (and your families) experience. I have been on the other end of the spectrum, had a great experience and have seen parents come on here to ask specific question regarding a school only to have events (which never even happened at that particular school) brought up as examples of what will happen to their kids. I have had my experiences ignored or questioned, my family disrespected, called a liar.
Talking about Posey restraints, and saying it happens in all schools, is an insult to those schools who don’t use them. My daughter never saw one used in the 14 months she attended her school. No one ever sat on her or anyone she knows.
I, personally disagree with you in that it would not be a great service and effort to identify and separate the better schools from those who abuse kids, those that use restraints and escorts vs. those that do not. Etc.
Regulation may or may not work… personally I don’t put a lot of faith in the government to keep our kids safe and I agree, if regulation puts the schools out of business then they were not any good to begin with and the really bad ones will have to conform ---- but it wont effect (or could even hurt) the schools which are presently doing a good job in turning the kids around and getting them back on track.
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Since you didn't name any programs, I guess you'll only put theWho seal of approval on ASR? Hmm...SettleForNothingLess spent some time at ASR, perhaps she'll post her thoughts on the program.
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I haven’t seen any kids being jumped on by teachers in our public school system, but I have seen kids placed in isolation for minor offenses for hours at a time with no communication with their parents or others, no eye contact, no talking,no free expression and the person watching them has no training in emergency procedures. Our local school subjects between 5 and 14 kids a day to this.
Hours, you say? No, a lockdown like PV will be months of that treatment, not hours. Most kids don't feel the need to communicate with their parents during the day in public school, they can do it when the get home.
These kids are not allowed to receive mail at all and if they do it is withheld from them (which should be a federal offense according to some here).
PV opens the mail and "scans" the incoming and outgoing mail, and yeah, that is a Federal offense.
We have had teachers take kids across the Mexican border for the purpose of having sex with them, some teachers have sex with students on field trips and in the parking lot, yet the public schools still stay open.
They drive them all the way from Newton, MA to Mexico? If you'll recall Ken Kay's remarks about staff/patient sexual activity, he didn't think it was a problem, because the kids were bad...
Would you please post the names of the other places you know to be completely free of abuse? I would appreciate the information.
You say it doesn't happen in other places - does that devalue what my wife and step-daughter went through? Do you view their experiences as an "exception", a freak occurrence? Maybe you're comfortable with writing them off that way, but I have a lot of difficulty with that. That's my family. We didn't have any say in the program - my wife and I were unaware these places existed, and look at PV's website....it's a summer camp with smiling faces in the great outdoors. We didn't realize that investigating the place and asking questions about the treatment methods would screw the website's illusion and interfere with the "therapeutic process".
When you say "this doesn't happen in other places", you're insulting the people who went through places like PV - is it their fault they were put in the "wrong" place? Keep "breaking them down", even after they're out of the program. Who's capable of building them back up? Do you consider the program survivors to be liars? Doing a program by program inspection to sort "bad" from "good" would be idiotic - as soon as the heat lifted, program drift would take the places right back to the old physically violent, verbally abusive "tough love".
You've said not all programs are the same, but all programs are part of the "industry"(hate that term), so isn't it logical that we need "industry"-wide Federal regulations? If some programs are regulated out of existence, which is a common industry whine, so be it. They shouldn't be in operation if they can't meet Federal regulations.
Zen, I actually know how you feel as far as others devaluing your (and your families) experience. I have been on the other end of the spectrum, had a great experience and have seen parents come on here to ask specific question regarding a school only to have events (which never even happened at that particular school) brought up as examples of what will happen to their kids. I have had my experiences ignored or questioned, my family disrespected, called a liar.
Talking about Posey restraints, and saying it happens in all schools, is an insult to those schools who don’t use them. My daughter never saw one used in the 14 months she attended her school. No one ever sat on her or anyone she knows.
I, personally disagree with you in that it would not be a great service and effort to identify and separate the better schools from those who abuse kids, those that use restraints and escorts vs. those that do not. Etc.
Regulation may or may not work… personally I don’t put a lot of faith in the government to keep our kids safe and I agree, if regulation puts the schools out of business then they were not any good to begin with and the really bad ones will have to conform ---- but it wont effect (or could even hurt) the schools which are presently doing a good job in turning the kids around and getting them back on track.
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Since you didn't name any programs, I guess you'll only put theWho seal of approval on ASR? Hmm...SettleForNothingLess spent some time at ASR, perhaps she'll post her thoughts on the program.
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Hours, you say? No, a lockdown like PV will be months of that treatment, not hours. Most kids don't feel the need to communicate with their parents during the day in public school, they can do it when the get home.
So it seems isolation is okay… it’s the length of time that seems to be at issue. Some parents choose to send their kids to a private school (unregulated) to avoid this type of treatment…. So I guess it is all relative.
PV opens the mail and "scans" the incoming and outgoing mail, and yeah, that is a Federal offense.
Our public school is even worse..they wont even give the mail to the student (opened or unopened)…it goes to the parents.
They drive them all the way from Newton, MA to Mexico? If you'll recall Ken Kay's remarks about staff/patient sexual activity, he didn't think it was a problem, because the kids were bad...
So it seems many public schools feel the same way as this guy Ken Kay.. and these places are heavily regulated too. This is one of the reasons I don’t think regulation will solve anything.
Since you didn't name any programs, I guess you'll only put theWho seal of approval on ASR? Hmm...SettleForNothingLess spent some time at ASR, perhaps she'll post her thoughts on the program.
Seems you view the industry thru your experience with PV and what you read here and other parents and I view mine from what I experienced at ASR and what I read here and other parents.
I don’t get angry because of your bias towards the industry… people should not be angry with my perspective… we all need to try to understand each other better.
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Well I have been counting thru my restraint logs.. so far 98 restraints in less than a 6 month period... BASTARDS....
You're telling me that you were restrained 98 times in less then a six month period? I can't even begin to imagine what that was like (if there were no repeats in those logs you're going through)?
I'm not calling you a liar. However, in my 4 years of being in programs I never saw a certain person, or individual being restrained that many times, not even halfway close. I was restrained about 10 times over a 4 year/4 different program stay, and I was one of the worse kids there. I don't know much about PV though. If that is the case, why did they keep you in this program, and not toss you out? I'm assuming when you are talking restraints, you are talking about full blown take downs, right?
Any, and all of the programs I was personally in would have tossed me out if I were to have behaved that badly. They just wouldn't have tolerated having me be such a negative influence on all the kids around me. Not only that, but it's tough on staff emotionally as well as physically to do that many take downs.
Wow, 98?!! Over 6 months? That's mind blowing. I didn't know PV to be so restraint happy?????
I have mapped a lot of programs, but none....NONE combine restraints in such a both clinical and cynical way.
WWASP are bastards, but at least the common staff on the facilities does not pretend to be otherwise. They don't wear suits, when they leave work and appear in public.
According to their video, it is about to learn the children to be patients.
As a boy I got meningitis and was held in total isolation for 14 days. The only visits I got was my parents and they had to wear masks. I had such a fever that they were able to do a lumbar puncture without me complaining. Being a patient is nothing you can learn, it is a title you earn when you are ill.
I have investigated if we have such a facility in Denmark and yes we do. In order to be admitted you have to kill a person in a very brutal way and while you are at, kill two or three just to be sure that you doesn't get the 12-16 year per murder, but life (In Denmark life means life on paper only. You are released when all the doctors agree that you only can chew melted butter or but also if they feel that you are no danger to the society anymore. The longest prisontime served since WWII is 33 years and it was for murdering 4 unarmed cops and they were served in a normal prison. Just a year ago the authorities released a former doctor who traveled 100 kilometers where she killed the wife of her lover and burned down the down with two children who also died. She ended up serving about 10-11 years. So the crime has to be worse than that.).
I found an article about the place. A person has isolated himself for 10 years in his room because he is afraid that the staff will steal his thoughts. For 10 year they have tried to speak to him but he tries to strangle people if they stay alone in his room so this is their only case where they feel that they have failed - so far.
The article mentions another case. A man had stabbed a person and had chopped his victim up. He arrived in a suit similar to the posey the children at PV are restrained in. But within a week they could let him walk without danger among the other patients.
A stay can be a short as 18 months, but the normal stay is 7 years.
This unit is the only one of its kind in Denmark and they can detain 50 patients. The name is "The security" because it is the only place none has ever escaped from since it was founded in 1918.
But not even this unit has that many restraints as PV can achieve. Patients arrive in restraints and are kept the first 24-48 hours in restraints, but within a week the doctors has diagnosed the inmate and 90 percent are able to live in the facility among the other patients. They say that they are experts in seeing a built-up of an aggression so they can avoid the use of restraints.
I was in disbelief when I learned about PV. While I can understand the use of restraints for a short period if the staff is attacked with a weapon, I can't understand it used as a strategy for treatment especially when the teenagers who are entering the facility are not even diagnosed yet. At PV they are supposed to diagnose themselves in group and invidual therapy by giving the staffmembers confessions.
Why are they restraining in such a unheard way? Maybe if a staffmember could get on here and tell why?
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Here is the other thing. I hate programs. But if they were regulated, which I'm all for--any inconvenience to them, I happily support. But--I still think you'd have rampant abuses. I just remember how phony we all were during parent visits.
The analogy I use is that since the NCLB act was legislated, schools have all this bureaucratic protocol we have to follow to ensure we cross every t and dot every i in terms of accounting for student success. Often, the procedures we undertake actually leave us less time to design banging lessons. Also, NCLB is NOT about building relationships--but doing paperwork. Every good teacher knows performance is best enhanced through a strong teacher-student dynamic. Yet--shitty teachers can still pass if they do the required accountability steps.... Same with programs.
Thats a good analogy.... I feel the same way and dont think regulation will do much to change things for the better.
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OK, Mr. WHO, If regulation will not effect, or even hurt, the ptrograms which are presently doing a good job - then why isn't EVERYBODY fighting for regulation to weed out the bad programs; or to help these programs that aren't dong a "good job" to come up to standards?
Because there are those of us who realize that the abuse that occurs in programs doesn't discriminate between licensed and unlicensed.
Most of us, who don't have some financial stake in the industry, just want programs to go away period. What is left is geniune treatment based upon peer reviewed treatment models facilitated by credentialed and licensed therapists with well trained staff and due process and civil rights afforded to all the patients.
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Well I have been counting thru my restraint logs.. so far 98 restraints in less than a 6 month period... BASTARDS....
You're telling me that you were restrained 98 times in less then a six month period? I can't even begin to imagine what that was like (if there were no repeats in those logs you're going through)?
I'm not calling you a liar. However, in my 4 years of being in programs I never saw a certain person, or individual being restrained that many times, not even halfway close. I was restrained about 10 times over a 4 year/4 different program stay, and I was one of the worse kids there. I don't know much about PV though. If that is the case, why did they keep you in this program, and not toss you out? I'm assuming when you are talking restraints, you are talking about full blown take downs, right?
Any, and all of the programs I was personally in would have tossed me out if I were to have behaved that badly. They just wouldn't have tolerated having me be such a negative influence on all the kids around me. Not only that, but it's tough on staff emotionally as well as physically to do that many take downs.
Wow, 98?!! Over 6 months? That's mind blowing. I didn't know PV to be so restraint happy?????
Again I had a kid in my group who was restrained 98 times or more IN ONE MONTH.
And frankly who gives a fuck what it does to staff? As a former staff I can vouch that more than likely 99 percent of her 98 restraints were unwarranted and improperly performed.
So when viewed in that context the only regards I have for her staff/tormenters are the high hopes that they die in a painful tree branch shredder accident.
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Wow such anger! Did they can your ass, or wht?!!! :rofl:
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Did you ever get chemically restrained, CCM?
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Well I have been counting thru my restraint logs.. so far 98 restraints in less than a 6 month period... BASTARDS....
You're telling me that you were restrained 98 times in less then a six month period? I can't even begin to imagine what that was like (if there were no repeats in those logs you're going through)?
I'm not calling you a liar. However, in my 4 years of being in programs I never saw a certain person, or individual being restrained that many times, not even halfway close. I was restrained about 10 times over a 4 year/4 different program stay, and I was one of the worse kids there. I don't know much about PV though. If that is the case, why did they keep you in this program, and not toss you out? I'm assuming when you are talking restraints, you are talking about full blown take downs, right?
Any, and all of the programs I was personally in would have tossed me out if I were to have behaved that badly. They just wouldn't have tolerated having me be such a negative influence on all the kids around me. Not only that, but it's tough on staff emotionally as well as physically to do that many take downs.
Wow, 98?!! Over 6 months? That's mind blowing. I didn't know PV to be so restraint happy?????
I have mapped a lot of programs, but none....NONE combine restraints in such a both clinical and cynical way.
But not even this unit has that many restraints as PV can achieve. Patients arrive in restraints and are kept the first 24-48 hours in restraints, but within a week the doctors has diagnosed the inmate and 90 percent are able to live in the facility among the other patients. They say that they are experts in seeing a built-up of an aggression so they can avoid the use of restraints.
I
You really don't know what the subterranean world of program/institutions is like. ALOT of places have combo chemical/physical restraint. Survivors just aren't vocal about it. i was in chemical restraints for at least a month at one institution that I've never even heard mentioned here. Sadly, by my experience, this place doesn't sound that bad. It's abusive, but it's not a cult. How'd you like to be chemically restrained by cult members with a dozen children assisting? How'd you like the "restriners" to be kids further along in the program with the syringe? Welcome to my world.
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Ah, I understand what everyone is talking about (Ding,Ding,Ding) Restraint is being defined as a chemical restraint or a person being medicated 3 times per day for a month = 90+ times. I was going to say.. Dam.. trying to get these kids into poseys every morning after breakfast... then again after Lunch... then again after Dinner would take an army of staff and a dedicated room to store, name and install/uninstall all these poseys.
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Ah, I understand what everyone is talking about (Ding,Ding,Ding) Restraint is being defined as a chemical restraint or a person being medicated 3 times per day for a month = 90+ times. I was going to say.. Dam.. trying to get these kids into poseys every morning after breakfast... then again after Lunch... then again after Dinner would take an army of staff and a dedicated room to store, name and install/uninstall all these poseys.
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Hmmm
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Ah, I understand what everyone is talking about (Ding,Ding,Ding) Restraint is being defined as a chemical restraint or a person being medicated 3 times per day for a month = 90+ times. I was going to say.. Dam.. trying to get these kids into poseys every morning after breakfast... then again after Lunch... then again after Dinner would take an army of staff and a dedicated room to store, name and install/uninstall all these poseys.
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Don't make light of this.
Reset your "dinger", friend, you're off the mark...You're not normally this obtuse, or do you need to delude yourself about this? The 98 restraints include physical, chemical and mechanical. Settle's been reading off the dosages of some of the meds, and I have to wonder if the doctor signing off on the med sheets even bothered to read them. A few of these meds I've got to look up, but the ones I recognize were being given to her in one big toxic cocktail. Any one a doctor? I'd like to know if any of these mental sludge producers are contraindicated.
And for fuck's sake, Whootie, change your user name to a different band, you're killing me. Why can't you be ABBA, or Air Supply, or the Captain and Tennile? Last night my wife was playing Quadrophenia and I freaked and started screaming "I don't want to see your goddamn raw data tables!" and tore the CD out of the player, right in the middle of "Dirty Jobs"... I guess that song made me think of you.
I would rather associate you with "Muskrat Love" or "Fernando".
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DRUGGED INTO SUBMISSION Sunday, April 24, 2005
Encarnacion Pyle
THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH
Drugged into Submission
Monday, April 25
LISA MARIE MILLER
Injections as threats
Concerns about overmedicated kids are being heard nationwide
...A children's psychiatric hospital in Louisville, Ky., was chastised in 2003 for giving drugs to children before they could cause problems sometimes while still asleep. Kids who refused to take pills were told they would receive a shot of Thorazine.[/color]
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here's something interesting - "Legal Strategies to Challenge Chemical Restraint of Children in Foster Care"
Theoretically this could be applied to any institution acting in loco parentis - fyi
http://www.naccchildlaw.org/training/do ... traint.pdf (http://www.naccchildlaw.org/training/documents/HandbookonChemicalRestraint.pdf)
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& this is from a monitoring agency in Montana -
if there are any facilities there - this would also apply.
http://www.cwla.org/programs/behavior/statefiles/mt.htm (http://www.cwla.org/programs/behavior/statefiles/mt.htm)
more specifically - I highlighted the importance passages which outline -
The administrator of the child care agency which uses mechanical restraint or a person designated by that administrator must authorize each use of mechanical restraint. Each authorization shall be for one-half hour only. No child shall be kept in mechanical restraint for more than 2 hours in any 12-hour period.
Any child who needs to be mechanically restrained for more than 2 hours in any 12-hour period shall be transferred to an acute care psychiatric facility.
A residential treatment center which uses chemical restraint shall ensure that such restraint is administered by intramuscular injection by a person qualified and trained in the administration of intramuscular injections.
A child who is capable of accepting an oral administration of chemical restraint shall not be deemed to require chemical restraint.
A residential treatment center which uses emergency chemical restraint shall ensure that each administration of chemical restraint is specifically ordered by a physician who has personally examined the child.
There shall not be standing orders related to the use of chemical restraint.
A physician shall authorize each use of chemical restraint prior to the administering of such restraint.
In effect, it cut down or eliminate the vast majority of restarints - because they must be signed off on qualified medical personnel and there is also a grievance procedure.
The vast majority of restraints, physical or chemical, are done by unqualified staff (HS graduates at best) - if facilities were federally regulated like long term care facilities (ie nursing homes) - they would be singing a very different tune.
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& this is from Ohio - again, I highlighted the pertinent data in the summary findings - this is from ohio state gov - not some private interest group.
Summary Statements
This informal survey found that children in Ohio's residential facilities are being secluded and restrained on a daily basis.
Seventeen of the 18 facilities that have 10 or more beds seclude and restrain children.
The average seclusion and restraint across all facilities lasted 12.3 minutes with a range of 5.2 minutes to 75.5 minutes.
Assuming that the one month snapshot that OLRS took is a typical month, there will be over 9000 seclusion and restraint episodes in these 18 residential facilities over the course of a year.
The average seclusion and restraint time in one facility for the month of May in 2001 was over 75 minutes.
One facility with 12 beds had 172 seclusion and restraints in a one month time frame in 2001.
There was a 52 per cent decrease in the use of seclusion and restraint over the past year in the four targeted facilities reviewed by OLRS in 2000 and 2001.
Few facilities have a policy against the use of seclusion and restraint.
Some facilities have written policies to reduce the use of seclusion and restraint.
Just an caveat, statistics are a tricky thing; marketers use statistics to skew the facts - some pro-program person might say the average restraint is 12.3 minutes - buts that for each children, each and every day.
Don't let someone (TheWho specifically) try to argue numbers - facts are facts.
see below -
Effects of Restraints on Children
Children are re-traumatized by the experience.
Children die while in restraints.
Children are injured—rug burns to broken bones.
Children lose trust for staff and lose their sense of safety.
Seclusion and Restraints scare children and make them more angry.
It is embarrassing to be secluded and restrained.
http://olrs.ohio.gov/ASP/pub_3_PhysicalRestraint.asp (http://olrs.ohio.gov/ASP/pub_3_PhysicalRestraint.asp)
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& this as well.
http://olrs.ohio.gov/ASP/pub_2_ChemicalRestraint.asp (http://olrs.ohio.gov/ASP/pub_2_ChemicalRestraint.asp)
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Well I have been counting thru my restraint logs.. so far 98 restraints in less than a 6 month period... BASTARDS....
See above ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^that's pretty vague. No, I have never been chemically restrained. I think I was threatened with that action before though? I have to say, at that point, I did not continue the behavior that was causing them to threaten me with that action. Due to the fact, I did not like needles.
I'm surprised though, that it never did happen. There were some injuries I did cause to staff during the times they were restraining me (which resulted in them having to go to the hospital) that maybe if they had injected me with something, perhaps they wouldn't have gotten hurt?
Anyway, I would love to know when Settle finishes with the logs to let us know which of her restraints were physical, which were chemical, and the combination in which they were done on a daily basis.
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This group has a mental health division (for non-autistic kids who have been restrained) - though it is primarily for autistic kids. They have resources and links to civil rights organizations -
http://users.1st.net/cibra/ (http://users.1st.net/cibra/)
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Here is an example of one of my restraints:
Mechanical restraint started at 1:55 PM. Mechanical restraint DCed at 9:55 PM. thats 7 hours of being tied down. 5 Mgs of Haldol, 50 Mgs of Benadryl, and 15 Mgs of Zyprexa Zydis administered at 5:10 PM.
Restrain using body net.
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That's illegal, BTW.
I can give you the reg's in TN on restraints. I will be PM'ing you soon.
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Here is an example of one of my restraints:
Mechanical restraint started at 1:55 PM. Mechanical restraint DCed at 9:55 PM. thats 7 hours of being tied down. 5 Mgs of Haldol, 50 Mgs of Benadryl, and 15 Mgs of Zyprexa Zydis administered at 5:10 PM.
Restrain using body net.
What had you done to be restrained mechanically for 8 hours? Do you even remember? What is a body net?
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If you were never in a body net, or never had a child in a body net, or have never been chemically restrained you have no business being here.
:rofl:
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You can contact these organziation in TN since they don't have reg's on restraints (sorry, my bad - I doubled checked)
If anyone has been to a facility in TN, these 2 groups are helpful.
http://tndisability.org/news/2007/11/14 ... -children/ (http://tndisability.org/news/2007/11/14/restraint-seclusion-of-children/)
http://www.dce-tn.org/ (http://www.dce-tn.org/)
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If you were never in a body net, or never had a child in a body net, or have never been chemically restrained you have no business being here.
:rofl:
Love it! Thanks for the laugh, LOL!!!!!!!!
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Reflecting on tragedy: A commentary on deaths of children in restraints
Nunno, Holden, and Tollar (2006) have made a significant contribution to the child abuse literature and community, which had not to date considered the issue of how children are exposed to abuses in mental health settings. Restraint refers to physical restriction of movement; its most common form involves placing individuals on the floor, most often in a prone position, and restraining their limbs until they comply with specific requests or directions. Restraint is the most coercive and dangerous form of behavior management. Restraints can cause suffering through physical discomfort from forced inactivity and can produce feelings of isolation, anxiety, and humiliation. Restraints also are associated with physical injury that has been documented in the medical literature and have been implicated in asphyxia and other mechanisms of unexpected death (Day, 2002; Mohr, Petti, & Mohr, 2003). Moreover, the use of restraints is an intervention with little in the way of either theory or research that supports its efficacy for extinguishing unwanted behaviors (Singh, Singh, Davis, Latham, & Ayers, 1999).
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_o ... 7a76fb697b (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6V7N-4MBC539-1&_user=334567&_coverDate=12%2F31%2F2006&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000017318&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=334567&md5=58e9a8ed3189f56010b0287a76fb697b)
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If you were never in a body net, or never had a child in a body net, or have never been chemically restrained you have no business being here.
:rofl:
And yours would go a little something like this.............
If you don't think all programs/schools/RTC's are bad, your comments are not welcomed here. If you can't bash every single program owner/staff member/shrink that works for any of these places, you have no business posting here. If you have had a positive experience with any program/school/treatment center you have no business posting here. If you don't think the world is out to get you (because they are) then you have no business posting here. If you don't think our government was behind 911 you have no business posting here.
I could go on, and on! But, I think you get my point.
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Here is an example of one of my restraints:
Mechanical restraint started at 1:55 PM. Mechanical restraint DCed at 9:55 PM. thats 7 hours of being tied down. 5 Mgs of Haldol, 50 Mgs of Benadryl, and 15 Mgs of Zyprexa Zydis administered at 5:10 PM.
Restrain using body net.
Zyprexa
Indications & Dosage
Efficacy in schizophrenia was demonstrated in a dose range of 10 to 15 mg/day in clinical trials. However, doses above 10 mg/day were not demonstrated to be more efficacious than the 10 mg/day dose. An increase to a dose greater than the target dose of 10 mg/day (i.e., to a dose of 15 mg/day or greater) is recommended only after clinical assessment. The safety of doses above 20 mg/day has not been evaluated in clinical trials
Children require smaller dosages of haloperidol than do adults. The recommended initial dosage of haloperidol for controlling psychotic symptoms in children is 0.5–2.0 mg two or three times each day. The recommended dosage for controlling symptoms of Tourette's syndrome and other non-psychotic disorders is between 0.075 and 0.05 mg per kilogram of body weight per day. The total dosage is usually divided into two or three administrations per day. The goal of therapy is to use the smallest amount of haloperidol that will control symptoms. Children under age three should not take this drug.
Is PV trying to cover-up their ignorance of therapy with an abundance of pharmacy? That's sickening, and it seems incredibly ignorant to administer all that to you at once, and criminal to give you those dosages.
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here are another 2 good resources - which provide facts as to the harmfulness of restraints -
http://www.edlawrc.com/general_informat ... restra.htm (http://www.edlawrc.com/general_information_about_restra.htm)
http://www.cwla.org/programs/behavior/S ... arison.htm (http://www.cwla.org/programs/behavior/State_Comparison.htm)
Just so, the pro-program folks can't get on here, spinning the truth.
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an annotated bibliography with studies done restraints -
Studies reviewed in this bibliography have focused primarily on the following
variables:
• Patient age
• Patient sex
• Patient gender
• Patient ethnicity
• Patient diagnosis
• Length of stay
• Facility rate of seclusion/restraint
• Location of facility (e.g., urban versus rural)
• Staff training
• Staff education level
• Staff experience level
• Staff gender
Second only to age of the patient as a predictor, is a facility’s rate of seclusion
and restraint. The higher a facility’s use of seclusion and restraint, the more
likely a patient is to be restrained or secluded. Because of this, the research calls
for further study about differences in facility approach to behavior management.
http://www.cwla.org/programs/behavior/SAMSHAbib.pdf (http://www.cwla.org/programs/behavior/SAMSHAbib.pdf)
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Hey, Settle - I've looked through the parent handbook from PV and I can't find any mention of the use of chemical restraints. Physical, mechanical, but not chemical. As a parent, I want to know if there's a possibility my kid is going to be shot-up with a high dose of an antipsychotic.
False, deceptive marketing and advertising.
I got a phone call this morning, Settle - not the one I expected, it's better.
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the defintion of chemical restraint is such that -
"Chemical restraint" means a medication used to control behavior or restrict the patient's freedom of movement and is not a standard treatment for the child's medical or psychiatric condition.
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Here is an example of one of my restraints:
Mechanical restraint started at 1:55 PM. Mechanical restraint DCed at 9:55 PM. thats 7 hours of being tied down. 5 Mgs of Haldol, 50 Mgs of Benadryl, and 15 Mgs of Zyprexa Zydis administered at 5:10 PM.
Restrain using body net.
Zyprexa
Indications & Dosage
Efficacy in schizophrenia was demonstrated in a dose range of 10 to 15 mg/day in clinical trials. However, doses above 10 mg/day were not demonstrated to be more efficacious than the 10 mg/day dose. An increase to a dose greater than the target dose of 10 mg/day (i.e., to a dose of 15 mg/day or greater) is recommended only after clinical assessment. The safety of doses above 20 mg/day has not been evaluated in clinical trials
Children require smaller dosages of haloperidol than do adults. The recommended initial dosage of haloperidol for controlling psychotic symptoms in children is 0.5–2.0 mg two or three times each day. The recommended dosage for controlling symptoms of Tourette's syndrome and other non-psychotic disorders is between 0.075 and 0.05 mg per kilogram of body weight per day. The total dosage is usually divided into two or three administrations per day. The goal of therapy is to use the smallest amount of haloperidol that will control symptoms. Children under age three should not take this drug.
Is PV trying to cover-up their ignorance of therapy with an abundance of pharmacy? That's sickening, and it seems incredibly ignorant to administer all that to you at once, and criminal to give you those dosages.
Zen, we really cannot say, by just looking at a log, if the amounts were appropriate or not.
Zeprexa is manufactured in tablet doses of:
2.5, 5, 7.5, 10, 15, 20 mg.
Treatment of bipolar disorder usually is initiated with oral doses of 10-15 mg once daily. The dose may be increased by 5 mg daily at 24 hour intervals. Doses greater than 20 mg daily have not been evaluated. In clinical trials, doses of 5-20 mg daily were effective.
You need to be careful how you distinguish between treatment and chemical restraint. If a person is being administered a drug as part of their treatment then it is not considered a restraint. If a drug is being administered to control a person’s behavior then it could be considered dosing for restraint. So it is the process of prescribing rather than the agent prescribed that distinguishes treatment from restraint.
...
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TheWho said -
Restraint is being defined as a chemical restraint or a person being medicated 3 times per day for a month = 90+ times.
So, your defintion is equally fallacious, by your own standards - just ignore all the data and spin your own facts.
I'll break it down for you a person being medicated 3 times a day for a month - like you said - doesn't equal chemical restraint - it is defined by something as being outside of a medical scope that is used to discipline or control behavior. End of story. you can split hairs all you want.
Just be very careful of what you say, TheWho.
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qft
TheWho said
You need to be careful how you distinguish between treatment and chemical restraint. If a person is being administered a drug as part of their treatment then it is not considered a restraint. If a drug is being administered to control a person’s behavior then it could be considered dosing for restraint. So it is the process of prescribing rather than the agent prescribed that distinguishes treatment from restraint.
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I agree with the Who in regards to being careful when you say you were being chemically restrained. It could have been treatment you were receiving?
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I agree with the Who in regards to being careful when you say you were being chemically restrained. It could have been treatment you were receiving?
quoting for truth - the fact she can't read.
TheWho didn't say to be careful, i told him to be careful
oy vey, you are an idiot.
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I agree with the Who in regards to being careful when you say you were being chemically restrained. It could have been treatment you were receiving?
...autotroll?
Some namefag should seriously sig this.
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TheWho said -
Restraint is being defined as a chemical restraint or a person being medicated 3 times per day for a month = 90+ times.
So, your defintion is equally fallacious, by your own standards - just ignore all the data and spin your own facts.
I'll break it down for you a person being medicated 3 times a day for a month - like you said - doesn't equal chemical restraint - it is defined by something as being outside of a medical scope that is used to discipline or control behavior. End of story. you can split hairs all you want.
Just be very careful of what you say, TheWho.
Next time (it might be helpful) to use my entire quote... here is what I said in response to finally understanding that Settle was talking about physical and/or chemical restraints:
"Ah, I understand what everyone is talking about (Ding,Ding,Ding) Restraint is being defined as a chemical restraint or a person being medicated 3 times per day for a month = 90+ times. I was going to say.. Dam.. trying to get these kids into poseys every morning after breakfast... then again after Lunch... then again after Dinner would take an army of staff and a dedicated room to store, name and install/uninstall all these poseys. "
Chemical restraint is being used here in this thread (or defined here) as someone being dosed 3 times a day for a month. The medical community doesn’t define it this way. For example:
If you dose a person with 15 mg of Zyprexa for the purpose of calming them down addressing an immediate behavior issue we can consider that a "Chemical Restraint"
If you dose a person with 15 mg of Zeprexa as part of a daily treatment or prescribed routine then this would not be considered a restraint .
I was clearing up a previous misconception.... Hope this helps.... I have some further detailed definitions which may help differentiate between the two restraints if anyone is interested, but didn’t want to post a journal here.
...
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If you dose a person with 15 mg of Zyprexa for the purpose of calming them down addressing an immediate behavior issue we can consider that a "Chemical Restraint"
If you dose a person with 15 mg of Zeprexa as part of a daily treatment or prescribed routine then this would not be considered a restraint .
& you are giving this opinion because you are an MD - or health care practioner - because otherwise, it's hearsay.
It's about intent - if you are dosing someone and it's interfering with their ability to function - that's a restraint. people are restarined at high doeses and low doses, it depnds on the the patient and metobolism.
You are a not a doctor and you don't know anything about this.
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If you dose a person with 15 mg of Zyprexa for the purpose of calming them down addressing an immediate behavior issue we can consider that a "Chemical Restraint"
If you dose a person with 15 mg of Zeprexa as part of a daily treatment or prescribed routine then this would not be considered a restraint .
& you are giving this opinion because you are an MD - or health care practioner - because otherwise, it's hearsay.
It's about intent - if you are dosing someone and it's interfering with their ability to function - that's a restraint. people are restarined at high doeses and low doses, it depnds on the the patient and metobolism.
You are a not a doctor and you don't know anything about this.
I didn’t see where anyone was claiming to be a doctor... this is a discussion about Restraints... feel free to add something... do some research on your own and try to bring something to the table besides criticism.
Here is a definition:
"The concept of chemical restraint hinges on whether an agent is given as a part of the treatment of the patient's condition or simply to control the patient's behavior."
Remove the amount of dosage for a minute (I think that is what may be confusing you)... the amount is determined by many factors, one of which you stated.... what this is saying is if a person is being perscribed a dosage based on a condition then we can all this a treatment... if a person is being given a dosage to control a persons behavior then we should call this a restraint.
It is a fine line, but there also is a distinction.
...
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I agree with the Who in regards to being careful when you say you were being chemically restrained. It could have been treatment you were receiving?
quoting for truth - the fact she can't read.
TheWho didn't say to be careful, i told him to be careful
oy vey, you are an idiot.
We've talked about patients being medicated, and we've talked about chemical restraint. I just am trying to figure out which is which. I understand it was you almighty powerful one that told the Who to be careful. But, I think you need to be careful in what you are calling chemical restraint VS. treatment.
You do understand there is a difference between the two, right? Please tell me you do!!!! If not, it is you that is the idiot, LOL!!!!!!!
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PV will claim "clinical necessity" - that's when the expert testimony of a Psychiatrist will be necessary. 98 restraints in six months with a steady flow of noxious sludge that would put Keith Richards into a coma under the guise of "clinical necessity"....I think the necessity could be challenged. As a licensed MD said to me recently, what's appalling to you as a parent will be appalling to a Mental Health professional. Note I said "professional", and we've already shown there are very few "professionals" at PV.
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I agree with the Who in regards to being careful when you say you were being chemically restrained. It could have been treatment you were receiving?
quoting for truth - the fact she can't read.
TheWho didn't say to be careful, i told him to be careful
oy vey, you are an idiot.
We've talked about patients being medicated, and we've talked about chemical restraint. I just am trying to figure out which is which. I understand it was you almighty powerful one that told the Who to be careful. But, I think you need to be careful in what you are calling chemical restraint VS. treatment.
You do understand there is a difference between the two, right? Please tell me you do!!!! If not, it is you that is the idiot, LOL!!!!!!!
i get all hot and hard when Ccm Goddess talks about restraints.
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(Ding,Ding,Ding)
...
(Dong, Dong, Dong)
When are you changing your name to Air Supply, dude? Why don't you be ABBA?
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(Ding,Ding,Ding)
...
(Dong, Dong, Dong)
When are you changing your name to Air Supply, dude? Why don't you be ABBA?
Dude, get over it Zen! The Who will always be The Who!!!!
BTW Who, what are our plans for the evening? Let me know, ASAP!
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Dude, get over it Zen! The Who will always be The Who!!!!
BTW Who, what are our plans for the evening? Let me know, ASAP!
Never to me, child...never to me.
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BTW Who, what are our plans for the evening? Let me know, ASAP!
back to childish, immature fantasies I see.
Gee CCM, there must be a paucity of RL events in your life.
I guess the fantasy is better than your real life. Man, it must suck to absolutely zero friends and one friend here - TheWho.
I seriously doubt whether the two of you are adults.
But then gain, maybe in your fantasy land, you like to wear diapers too.
That's about the emotional age you act like at any given time here. Anything goes for you guys.
have fun!
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Hey, I figure if you are going to get off topic in regards to the Who's user name, we could at least talk about something more interesting like what Who, and I's plans were for the night!!!! As far as having no friends......you're right I lack friends on Fornits. Boo hoo.
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do really enjoy childish here?
I mean, are you really proud of your blathering fantasy's?
& you want people to take you seriously?
You are one of the most self-aggrandizing twits (aside from TheWho) supposedly over the age of 12, I have ever had the misfortune to encounter on a forum, any forum.
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Paucity! Wow, had to look that one up! In regards to RL....I'm not sure paucity is the right word? I haven't seen him in almost 20 years?!!
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do really enjoy childish here?
I mean, are you really proud of your blathering fantasy's?
& you want people to take you seriously?
You are one of the most self-aggrandizing twits (aside from TheWho) supposedly over the age of 12, I have ever had the misfortune to encounter on a forum, any forum.
She teases me by talking about her Who escapades on here.
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Paucity! Wow, had to look that one up! In regards to RL....I'm not sure paucity is the right word? I haven't seen him in almost 20 years?!!
um, if you knew what paucity meant, you would'nt have made such an obviously asinine statement.
But thanks for confirming the non-existence of any meaningful conversation and an IQ on your behalf.
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Hey, I figure if you are going to get off topic in regards to the Who's user name, we could at least talk about something more interesting like what Who, and I's plans were for the night!!!! As far as having no friends......you're right I lack friends on Fornits. Boo hoo.
What's this "you" shit? I posted about thewho. But while we're at it, don't you guys feel like assholes when you realize the admins know when you're trolling yourselves anonymously? You and your "we-ness"? I think that's why Deborah considers you to be bottom-feeders.
Anyway, screw you both, PM each other.
Getting Past Resistance in Psychology With The Out-of-Control Adolescent - that's what we're discussing, and I've got the book right here, by Dr. Vance R. Sherwood, the guy who claims Peninsula Village's program is his "design". He is the Grand Designer, and I'll pull some passages out of the last chapter, Residential Treatment of Affectively Labile Adolescents. The last sentence of the book is the last word on PV.
"My experience further is that a low dose of antipsychotic medication is more likely to be useful, particularly during periods of crisis and regression."
They're keeping Dr. Sherwood's dream alive at PV, they just upped the dosage several notches.
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do really enjoy childish here?
I mean, are you really proud of your blathering fantasy's?
& you want people to take you seriously?
You are one of the most self-aggrandizing twits (aside from TheWho) supposedly over the age of 12, I have ever had the misfortune to encounter on a forum, any forum.
You're killing me with these big words! Okay, I found it!
self-aggrandizement: The act of making oneself more powerful, wealthy, etc. esp. in a ruthless way.
I just thought I'd post it for everyone since I had no clue what this person meant?!! I still don't think that word applies to me. Whatever!!!!!
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We can argue about AP's and efficacy - i don't think that's useful - however, I will say chemical restraints and "tx" dosages are another thing entirely.
TheWho keeps spinning yarns with some kind of crazy authority.
i seriously wonder if he has a napolean complex or what.
Apparently, he is also the GREAT OZ.
Mostly, he's FOS - that's medical slang for "Full O' Shit"!
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do really enjoy childish here?
I mean, are you really proud of your blathering fantasy's?
& you want people to take you seriously?
You are one of the most self-aggrandizing twits (aside from TheWho) supposedly over the age of 12, I have ever had the misfortune to encounter on a forum, any forum.
You're killing me with these big words! Okay, I found it!
self-aggrandizement: The act of making oneself more powerful, wealthy, etc. esp. in a ruthless way.
I just thought I'd post it for everyone since I had no clue what this person meant?!! I still don't think that word applies to me. Whatever!!!!!
How dare they speak that way about You, Goddess Ccm!!
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self-aggrandizement fits the two of you perfectly -
1. noun
an act undertaken to increase your own power and influence or to draw attention to your own importance
2.noun
increase of one's own power, wealth, etc., usually aggressively.
3.n. The act or practice of enhancing or exaggerating one's own importance, power, or reputation.
it's totally true.
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Paucity! Wow, had to look that one up! In regards to RL....I'm not sure paucity is the right word? I haven't seen him in almost 20 years?!!
um, if you knew what paucity meant, you would'nt have made such an obviously asinine statement.
But thanks for confirming the non-existence of any meaningful conversation and an IQ on your behalf.
Under the word paucity it just says fewness; small number????
Well, I have had zero to do with WWASPS.
You said there must be a paucity of RL events in my life???? I don't communicate with him, or anyone from that program? Sorry, if you were a little more clear....maybe I would understand your jibber-jabber.
Please, dumb it down for me! Or get me a new dictionary?!!! Hahahahaha, try to have a little fun, would you?!!! Geez!
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We can argue about AP's and efficacy - i don't think that's useful - however, I will say chemical restraints and "tx" dosages are another thing entirely.
TheWho keeps spinning yarns with some kind of crazy authority.
i seriously wonder if he has a napolean complex or what.
Apparently, he is also the GREAT OZ.
Mostly, he's FOS - that's medical slang for "Full O' Shit"!
Thats what TheWho is saying!! It seems you dont understand the difference.
Try Rereading the post
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Thats what TheWho is saying!! It seems you dont understand the difference.
Try Rereading the post
& you anon, are thewho.
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Thats what TheWho is saying!! It seems you dont understand the difference.
Try Rereading the post
& you anon, are thewho.
No that was Deborah, I am Thewho Ha,Ha,Ha,
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Yes, CCM girl - paucity of RL events - as in "you have no life so you invent one here". As in, your previous confession to coming to fornits because you had zero friends when you moved to the Bay area and ample time.
No friends+free time=CCMgirl
oh clueless one, maybe one day you will get a brain.
Until then, you are doomed to harangue fornits and befriend TheWho.
Such is your lot in life.
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No, the one before that one was TheWho. The other one was Deborah's
^^^^^^theWho^^^^^
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nope - not deborah - guess again.
on second thought, nevermind.
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do really enjoy childish here?
I mean, are you really proud of your blathering fantasy's?
& you want people to take you seriously?
You are one of the most self-aggrandizing twits (aside from TheWho) supposedly over the age of 12, I have ever had the misfortune to encounter on a forum, any forum.
You're killing me with these big words! Okay, I found it!
self-aggrandizement: The act of making oneself more powerful, wealthy, etc. esp. in a ruthless way.
I just thought I'd post it for everyone since I had no clue what this person meant?!! I still don't think that word applies to me. Whatever!!!!!
How dare they speak that way about You, Goddess Ccm!!
I know I cannot believe the way they speak about me either, LOL!!! As far as being childish? Come on! There are many of the regulars here that are far more immature/childish then I am. Besides, who comes here expecting mature posts anymore. I personally lost all hopes for that a long time ago.
I tried to be serious. Then when I realized it was wasted effort to try and be open, and honest with people on here, I decided not to take things as seriously as I once did.
There are a small number of people on here that do know me on a more personal level then the majority of you. Keep in mind it's fewer then 5.
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Now the tread is beginning to be about relationship between who and CCM. That is exactly as interesting as reading about Amber and Peter, when they were fooled into Foreland Hamlet (http://http://www.asstr.org/files//Authors/JensenDenmark/www/runaways.htm).
Could we discuss reality instead?
How can we get into the parent group on google? They must have a idea about what a body net is?
I know that the parents here on this forum did not place their kid in PV, but what did they think the body net and the jacket meant? They use so nice words, but do they fool anyone?
Zen: What did you think that they meant with the jacket and net before you actually saw it?
Settle: Did you ever discuss these items with your parents? Did they know what they actually consented to?
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Yes, CCM girl - paucity of RL events - as in "you have no life so you invent one here". As in, your previous confession to coming to fornits because you had zero friends when you moved to the Bay area and ample time.
No friends+free time=CCMgirl
oh clueless one, maybe one day you will get a brain.
Until then, you are doomed to harangue fornits and befriend TheWho.
Such is your lot in life.
Do me a favor, and get your facts straight! I never said I came to Fornits because I had no friends. I found Fornits when I moved to a new area, and for the first time in 15 years wasn't bombarded with work.
I lived in the bay area after I left Cross Creek Manor back in 1990. I did move 2 hours away a couple years ago though. But, that didn't mean my friends disappeared on me! I did purchase some pigeons, and I am able to communicate with friends occasionally. That's if they don't go MIA on me, LOL!!!!
I post here because I have my own set of opinions on programs. It's really pretty simple. But, I appreciate all the put downs! Love you too. :-)
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Could we discuss reality instead?
How can we get into the parent group on google? They must have a idea about what a body net is?
I know that the parents here on this forum did not place their kid in PV, but what did they think the body net and the jacket meant? They use so nice words, but do they fool anyone?
Zen: What did you think that they meant with the jacket and net before you actually saw it?
Settle: Did you ever discuss these items with your parents? Did they know what they actually consented to?
thank you - back to reality.
body nets have more historical use in prisons nowadays, they use it to restarin the psychiatric patients who "happen to be" incarcerated. Quite a few inmates have had "adverse reactions" to body nets - (ie - they died)
- they are considered the most restrictive - and people ususally end up in them for days at a time. I'm sure you can do a search on all the data that's been taken on the mortality of using these devices in institutions. it isn't pretty.
as the cwla site states, it's difficult to do studies on TBS's , maninly because they are not regulated and therefor hard to track and quantify. It's apples and oranges - anyone who can quantify that data is clearly blowing smoke where the sun doesn't shine (ie. TheWho).
It's chilling to think this devices are used on children as a matter of course and first line of defense, rather than a last ditch effort.
You think if you were paying someone in excess of $60,000 per year, they would be better able to handle problems with "troubled adolescents" - rather than resorting to brute force.
It's sad.
Sadder still, are the people who actaully rally around the sadistic forms of treatment in the name of 'therapy' and "helping".
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You guys have been busy, seems I have some reading and catching up to do.
Here are some definitions that I found:
Physical restraint: A broad category of restraints in which a patient's movements are restricted by the use of physical force. This action is usually taken to prevent upset or agitated persons from hurting themselves or others
Mechanical restraint: A broad category of restraints in which a patient is immobilized through external devices such as straps, belts, wrist and ankle cuffs, or restrictive clothing such as straitjackets.
Body net: A vinyl net that is used to wrap a patient securely. The net has openings through which the arms are pulled and then strapped to the patient's side.
The body net seems to be designed to keep the patient cooler (for use in warmer climates maybe)
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http://www.teenliberty.org/Voices.htm (http://www.teenliberty.org/Voices.htm)
1. How to Drive a Kid Crazy.
Writes one 14-year-old about his stay in a mental rehab facility:
"If you do what they want, you are manipulating. If you don't, then you are defiant. If you walk around the ward, then you are pacing, if you sit down, then you are withdrawn. If you say you're sick, then you're trying to get attention. If you say you're not sick, then you are in denial. If you do your schoolwork right then you are a perfectionist who is obsessive about details. If you make mistakes, then you are sloppy and obviously don't care about education. And you know what? My doctor says this hospital is good for me because it's consistent."
2. Standing Torture
"I had to stand facing a wall for three days, except for going to the bathroom, because I had dust on my chair. My muscles killed me for three weeks. But if you fall down, you'll be shot up with Thorazine or put in seclusion for being defiant. So you stand there, and you have nothing to do but think. I'd pretend I was riding through LA on a bus, and reciting streets in my head, or play chess in my head, or count backwards from 2,000 by sevens. Otherwise you'd go berserk.
Everyone got punished for one person's offenses. [Once] we had to scrub the gym floor with a toothbrush 12-hours a day for three weeks because one girl wanted to run away."
Lyn Duff, whose account was published in Sassy magazine (June 1994), was committed by her parents to a private, for-profit mental hospital. She was sent there after her mother read her diary and found a love poem to another girl.
3. Torture in Restraints
" was put in restraints a lot during my first few weeks at the hospital," writes another teen.
"Every time a staff person told me to do something," he says, "I wouldn't do it. I was so mad about being there that I just said 'no way' to every order. When you don't do as they say, then you get a time out. And then you get put in SR (Seclusion Room) in restraints. It depends on what insurance you got and what the regulations are.
"Restraints are like a belt that goes around your waist and then there are these leather and plastic loops and they attach the handcuffs to the belt. So your arms are behind your back the whole time and you get sore!
"That's during the day. At night it's worse. They put you in five point, which is the loop and leather belt around your hands to attach them to the bed. And the same with your legs and they are spread apart. Then there is a leather belt from around the waist too.
"You stay in restraints for five days, but only in five point at nights unless you try to run or something. If you get them on a Tuesday and you are supposed to get [them] off on Saturday, it doesn't matter because the doctor isn't in and you have to wait for Monday when they come back to work. Unless, of course, Monday could be a holiday."
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"deadly restraint"
articles and defintions
http://www.charlydmiller.com/LIB05/1998 ... terms.html (http://www.charlydmiller.com/LIB05/1998hartfordterms.html)
* Commonly used terms and their definitions.
PHYSICAL RESTRAINT: A broad category of restraints in which a patient's movements are restricted by the use of physical force. This action is usually taken to prevent an upset or agitated person from hurting himself or others. MECHANICAL RESTRAINT: A broad category of restraints in which a patient is immobilized through external devices such as straps, belts, wrist or ankle cuffs, or restrictive clothing such as straitjackets.
SECLUSION: When a patient is separated from the general population of a facility and not permitted to return at will. Typically, the person is placed in a designated room, which is often padded. The room is often locked but typically has observation windows or cameras so staff may watch.
TWO-POINT RESTRAINTS: A standard mechanical restraint method. A device wraps around the waist and has straps or cuffs that go around the wrists to immobilize the arms.
FOUR-POINT RESTRAINTS: Another standard mechanical restraint method. The patient is placed on his back, typcally on a bed. The wrists and ankles are strapped to the bed to immobilize the patient.
FIVE-POINT RESTRAINT: Same as above, with the addition of a strap or cloth device to restrict the patient's midsection.
TAKEDOWN: A broad term referring to a worker forcing the patient to the ground.
BASKET HOLD: A commonly used, but often misused, term. Leading experts describe a basket hold as a physical restraint in which a worker holds a patient from behind. The worker grasps the patient's wrists, and crosses the patient's arms across his or her chest. The worker then brings the patient to a seated position by stepping back and riding the patient down along the worker's thigh.
BODY NET: A vinyl net that is used to wrap a patient securely. The net has openings through which the arms are pulled and then strapped to the patient's side.
BODY BAG: A large piece of reinforced cloth or canvas that is wrapped around the body and secured with zippers or straps.
STRAITJACKET: A coat-like device that is worn by a patient and used to bind his arms tightly against his body. Also known as a camisole.
FLOOR HOLD: A broad term encompassing a number of physical restraints during which a patient is forced to lie on the floor.
FACE-DOWN RESTRAINT: A broad term referring to a physical restraint during which the patient is facing the ground and staff members are either atop or beside the patient.
VEST POSY: A vest that some facilities use during a bed or chair restraint.
PELVIC POSY: A cloth device that some facilities use during a bed restraint. The vest goes across the pelvis and keeps a person from wriggling out of arm and leg restraints.
CARDIAC CHAIR: A padded recliner into which a patient is strapped. Often used in nursing homes. Also known as geri-chair or restraint chair.
THORAZINE: a tranquilizer used in psychiatric hospitals to calm unruly patients. In some cases found by The Courant, Thorazine was administered during a restraint.
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Position paper from the canadian mental health -
Seclusion And Restraint
Seclusion and restraint procedures not only represent a significant infringement of an individual's right to autonomy and self-determination but also are associated with significant morbidity and mortality. Whereas the risks of seclusion and restraint have been well established, the benefits remain uncertain.
The following report describes a snapshot review conducted by the Psychiatric Patient Advocate Office (PPAO) in 2000 of seclusion and restraint practices within Ontario Provincial Psychiatric Hospitals and the former Queen Street Mental Health Centre. The PPAO undertook this review in response to the high frequency of concerns and issues raised by patients served related to the use of seclusion and restraint.
http://www.ppao.gov.on.ca/pos-sec.html (http://www.ppao.gov.on.ca/pos-sec.html)
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Now the tread is beginning to be about relationship between who and CCM. That is exactly as interesting as reading about Amber and Peter, when they were fooled into Foreland Hamlet (http://http://www.asstr.org/files//Authors/JensenDenmark/www/runaways.htm).
Could we discuss reality instead?
How can we get into the parent group on google? They must have a idea about what a body net is?
I know that the parents here on this forum did not place their kid in PV, but what did they think the body net and the jacket meant? They use so nice words, but do they fool anyone?
Zen: What did you think that they meant with the jacket and net before you actually saw it?
Settle: Did you ever discuss these items with your parents? Did they know what they actually consented to?
We didn't get a copy of the handbook when our girl was placed in PV, we had to ask for it. By then, we had already learned the place was hell, the handbook only made it worse. We had already read about the "burrito", the straitjacket. It's a straitjacket to me, maybe that's not acceptable anymore.
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I dont think there is a question in anyones mind whether or not restraints are needed and the AMA, AACAP and ISPN all see the value in their use. The problem is using the restraints properly and having trained staff....
The guidelines for schools regarding the use of physical restraint on children are the result of decades of professional practice, state and federal legislation, case law, and grassroots efforts by advocacy groups, all concerned with the safety of children. To ensure that empirically based best practices are developed and become common practice among schools, it is incumbent upon various professional and advocacy organizations to monitor and hold school districts (as well as other agencies) across the nation accountable………..
……..Due to the current risk of student injuries and the mortality rates associated with the use of physical restraint, immediate action is required to ensure that schools employing restraint do not jeopardize student safety. Based on the review of case law, legislation, and recommended procedures from both professional organizations and advocacy groups, there is a need for clear standards regarding the use of restraint procedures in schools, as well as mandatory training of staff before they use restraint. Improved and standardized record keeping and notification of administrators and parents of incidents in which restraint occurs are also important. Additional research is needed to define situations in which restraint is appropriate in schools, as well as its effectiveness in containing or preventing violent or destructive behavior. Unless these recommendations are heeded and action is taken, headlines will continue to appear across our nation describing these preventable fatalities.
Advocacy groups involved:
AMA
(AACAP), the American Academy of Pediatrics, and the American Psychiatric Association
International Society of Psychiatric and Mental Health Nurses (ISPN)
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Now the tread is beginning to be about relationship between who and CCM. That is exactly as interesting as reading about Amber and Peter, when they were fooled into Foreland Hamlet (http://http://www.asstr.org/files//Authors/JensenDenmark/www/runaways.htm).
Could we discuss reality instead?
How can we get into the parent group on google? They must have a idea about what a body net is?
I know that the parents here on this forum did not place their kid in PV, but what did they think the body net and the jacket meant? They use so nice words, but do they fool anyone?
Zen: What did you think that they meant with the jacket and net before you actually saw it?
Settle: Did you ever discuss these items with your parents? Did they know what they actually consented to?
We didn't get a copy of the handbook when our girl was placed in PV, we had to ask for it. By then, we had already learned the place was hell, the handbook only made it worse. We had already read about the "burrito", the straitjacket. It's a straitjacket to me, maybe that's not acceptable anymore.
And my response to the question asked is unfortunatly my dad wont talk to me about it.
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Here is an example of one of my restraints:
Mechanical restraint started at 1:55 PM. Mechanical restraint DCed at 9:55 PM. thats 7 hours of being tied down. 5 Mgs of Haldol, 50 Mgs of Benadryl, and 15 Mgs of Zyprexa Zydis administered at 5:10 PM.
Restrain using body net.
Zyprexa
Indications & Dosage
Efficacy in schizophrenia was demonstrated in a dose range of 10 to 15 mg/day in clinical trials. However, doses above 10 mg/day were not demonstrated to be more efficacious than the 10 mg/day dose. An increase to a dose greater than the target dose of 10 mg/day (i.e., to a dose of 15 mg/day or greater) is recommended only after clinical assessment. The safety of doses above 20 mg/day has not been evaluated in clinical trials
Children require smaller dosages of haloperidol than do adults. The recommended initial dosage of haloperidol for controlling psychotic symptoms in children is 0.5–2.0 mg two or three times each day. The recommended dosage for controlling symptoms of Tourette's syndrome and other non-psychotic disorders is between 0.075 and 0.05 mg per kilogram of body weight per day. The total dosage is usually divided into two or three administrations per day. The goal of therapy is to use the smallest amount of haloperidol that will control symptoms. Children under age three should not take this drug.
Is PV trying to cover-up their ignorance of therapy with an abundance of pharmacy? That's sickening, and it seems incredibly ignorant to administer all that to you at once, and criminal to give you those dosages.
Zen, we really cannot say, by just looking at a log, if the amounts were appropriate or not.
Zeprexa is manufactured in tablet doses of:
2.5, 5, 7.5, 10, 15, 20 mg.
Treatment of bipolar disorder usually is initiated with oral doses of 10-15 mg once daily. The dose may be increased by 5 mg daily at 24 hour intervals. Doses greater than 20 mg daily have not been evaluated. In clinical trials, doses of 5-20 mg daily were effective.
You need to be careful how you distinguish between treatment and chemical restraint. If a person is being administered a drug as part of their treatment then it is not considered a restraint. If a drug is being administered to control a person’s behavior then it could be considered dosing for restraint. So it is the process of prescribing rather than the agent prescribed that distinguishes treatment from restraint.
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It was not the argument about Zyprexa... it was why administer HALDOL, BENADRYL, and ZYPREXA all at the same time??? whats the point of a cocktail like that?
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Here is an example of one of my restraints:
Mechanical restraint started at 1:55 PM. Mechanical restraint DCed at 9:55 PM. thats 7 hours of being tied down. 5 Mgs of Haldol, 50 Mgs of Benadryl, and 15 Mgs of Zyprexa Zydis administered at 5:10 PM.
Restrain using body net.
Zyprexa
Indications & Dosage
Efficacy in schizophrenia was demonstrated in a dose range of 10 to 15 mg/day in clinical trials. However, doses above 10 mg/day were not demonstrated to be more efficacious than the 10 mg/day dose. An increase to a dose greater than the target dose of 10 mg/day (i.e., to a dose of 15 mg/day or greater) is recommended only after clinical assessment. The safety of doses above 20 mg/day has not been evaluated in clinical trials
Children require smaller dosages of haloperidol than do adults. The recommended initial dosage of haloperidol for controlling psychotic symptoms in children is 0.5–2.0 mg two or three times each day. The recommended dosage for controlling symptoms of Tourette's syndrome and other non-psychotic disorders is between 0.075 and 0.05 mg per kilogram of body weight per day. The total dosage is usually divided into two or three administrations per day. The goal of therapy is to use the smallest amount of haloperidol that will control symptoms. Children under age three should not take this drug.
Is PV trying to cover-up their ignorance of therapy with an abundance of pharmacy? That's sickening, and it seems incredibly ignorant to administer all that to you at once, and criminal to give you those dosages.
Zen, we really cannot say, by just looking at a log, if the amounts were appropriate or not.
Zeprexa is manufactured in tablet doses of:
2.5, 5, 7.5, 10, 15, 20 mg.
Treatment of bipolar disorder usually is initiated with oral doses of 10-15 mg once daily. The dose may be increased by 5 mg daily at 24 hour intervals. Doses greater than 20 mg daily have not been evaluated. In clinical trials, doses of 5-20 mg daily were effective.
You need to be careful how you distinguish between treatment and chemical restraint. If a person is being administered a drug as part of their treatment then it is not considered a restraint. If a drug is being administered to control a person’s behavior then it could be considered dosing for restraint. So it is the process of prescribing rather than the agent prescribed that distinguishes treatment from restraint.
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It was not the argument about Zyprexa... it was why administer HALDOL, BENADRYL, and ZYPREXA all at the same time??? whats the point of a cocktail like that?
And all of those were recieved while tied down to a bed, whats the point? and no they were not a part of my medication regiment....
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The body net seems to be designed to keep the patient cooler (for use in warmer climates maybe)
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Like they give a shit about the kid's comfort...
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The body net seems to be designed to keep the patient cooler (for use in warmer climates maybe)
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Like they give a shit about the kid's comfort...
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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(Ding,Ding,Ding)
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(Dong, Dong, Dong)
When are you changing your name to Air Supply, dude? Why don't you be ABBA?
Abba ? I never heard of it…Air Supply, I have, but couldn’t name a song…I am more of a Floyd, Zepplin, ELP,Crimson, Rick Wakeman type. Tell you what, I will consider changing my Name if you drop the “ Zenâ€
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(Ding,Ding,Ding)
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(Dong, Dong, Dong)
When are you changing your name to Air Supply, dude? Why don't you be ABBA?
Abba ? I never heard of it…Air Supply, I have, but couldn’t name a song…I am more of a Floyd, Zepplin, ELP,Crimson, Rick Wakeman type. Tell you what, I will consider changing my Name if you drop the “ Zenâ€
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you both have really horrible "dad rock" taste in music
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(Ding,Ding,Ding)
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(Dong, Dong, Dong)
When are you changing your name to Air Supply, dude? Why don't you be ABBA?
Abba ? I never heard of it…Air Supply, I have, but couldn’t name a song…I am more of a Floyd, Zepplin, ELP,Crimson, Rick Wakeman type. Tell you what, I will consider changing my Name if you drop the “ Zenâ€
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Ha,Ha,Ha, I was responding to Zen's question...... everyone is so touchy about derailing[/color]
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That's because you do it all the time, especially when you are asked questions that you don't want to answer. Why not just plead the 5th amendment when these questions come up??? Here is a good example.
Who.... What is your connection with Bain Capital??? And which facility are you a supporter of???
(Pssst.....Who, Just plead the 5th!!!!!)
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Ha,Ha,Ha, I was responding to Zen's question...... everyone is so touchy about derailing[/color]
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That's because you do it all the time, especially when you are asked questions that you don't want to answer. Why not just plead the 5th amendment when these questions come up??? Here is a good example.
Who.... What is your connection with Bain Capital??? And which facility are you a supporter of???
(Pssst.....Who, Just plead the 5th!!!!!)
That is an old issue. I answered that about a month ago…. I don’t have any ties to Bain Capital.
By answering this, is this derailing again?
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What about the question regarding which facility you are a supporter for???
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What about the question regarding which facility you are a supporter for???
I wouldn’t call myself a supporter of any specific schools... I had a daughter who attended ASR and SUWS and I found these to be very beneficial to her and others who had attended.
I read about places which were not so good to some people like PV and straight.
I would be helpful to parents if someone could put all this vast knowledge of schools together and make a list of the good and bad schools... or rate them somehow.
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Anyone remember when TheWhore used to berate posters for having "no life" because they authored "nearly a thousand posts"?
Take a look at Mr. No Life (TheWhore) with over 3,000 almost completely inane posts. Sheesh.
Look, if a program chained your kid to a stake and fed her with a slingshot, he'd not object. He doesn't understand the concept of abuse, so he doesn't view anything as an abuse.
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Anyone remember when TheWhore used to berate posters for having "no life" because they authored "nearly a thousand posts"?
Take a look at Mr. No Life (TheWhore) with over 3,000 almost completely inane posts. Sheesh.
Look, if a program chained your kid to a stake and fed her with a slingshot, he'd not object. He doesn't understand the concept of abuse, so he doesn't view anything as an abuse.
AWWW, Are you a bit sad because someone took away your cell phone and forced you to shower every day...oh the abuse and isolation from the outside world.
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Anyone remember when TheWhore used to berate posters for having "no life" because they authored "nearly a thousand posts"?
Take a look at Mr. No Life (TheWhore) with over 3,000 almost completely inane posts. Sheesh.
Look, if a program chained your kid to a stake and fed her with a slingshot, he'd not object. He doesn't understand the concept of abuse, so he doesn't view anything as an abuse.
AWWW, Are you a bit sad because someone took away your cell phone and forced you to shower every day...oh the abuse and isolation from the outside world.
I think you hit the nail on the head. Ha,Ha,Ha
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when ever someone talks in cliche's like nail on the head we know they are not conscience just merely repeating something they've heard over and over it's sooo program!
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It was not the argument about Zyprexa... it was why administer HALDOL, BENADRYL, and ZYPREXA all at the same time??? whats the point of a cocktail like that?
They add the benadryl as a sedative and also, as an anti-seizure addition -so the AP's don't bind to the wrong receptors (the H1's) and you end up seizing.
The accepted practice guidelines are either the IM cocktail OR restraints but never both. The IM cocktail is usually an AP, a benzo and benadryl. (or cogentin). It's kinda unusual to give 2 AP's (anti-psychotic), that was given in your case.
They either snow you or restrain you. Even so, restraints are extremely uncommon, even in hospitals. It's a really archaic practice.
Unforuntaely, the doctors only sign off on this stuff and many patients do end getting seizures because the staff thinks that "whatver" medications are a good idea - meanwhile, they don't have a clue. I know of more than one person who has been affected by medication changes made by staff (HS graduates), and ended up with contra-indicated meds, ended up having seizures, etc etc.
It sucks.
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qft
TheWho said
I would be helpful to parents if someone could put all this vast knowledge of schools together and make a list of the good and bad schools... or rate them somehow.
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It was not the argument about Zyprexa... it was why administer HALDOL, BENADRYL, and ZYPREXA all at the same time??? whats the point of a cocktail like that?
They add the benadryl as a sedative and also, as an anti-seizure addition -so the AP's don't bind to the wrong receptors (the H1's) and you end up seizing.
The accepted practice guidelines are either the IM cocktail OR restraints but never both. The IM cocktail is usually an AP, a benzo and benadryl. (or cogentin). It's kinda unusual to give 2 AP's (anti-psychotic), that was given in your case.
They either snow you or restrain you. Even so, restraints are extremely uncommon, even in hospitals. It's a really archaic practice.
Unforuntaely, the doctors only sign off on this stuff and many patients do end getting seizures because the staff thinks that "whatver" medications are a good idea - meanwhile, they don't have a clue. I know of more than one person who has been affected by medication changes made by staff (HS graduates), and ended up with contra-indicated meds, ended up having seizures, etc etc.
It sucks.
Thanks for posting that, I've been asking for professional opinions on the use of antipsychotics in a restraint. Since settle is not and was not diagnosed as a psychotic, the AP dosages were high and using them as a restraint was damned improper and dangerous, and if properly investigated could cause serious trouble for the people who signed off on the restraint.
That's from an MD.
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How this place is still running is beyond me, It's appalling. Lumping victims of rape and abuse, kids suffering from depression and kids dealing with drug addictions together under one "treatment" isn't the way to "achieve lasting change". Last time I checked, using restraints like they do isn't either. This place needs to go.
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How this place is still running is beyond me, It's appalling. Lumping victims of rape and abuse, kids suffering from depression and kids dealing with drug addictions together under one "treatment" isn't the way to "achieve lasting change". Last time I checked, using restraints like they do isn't either. This place needs to go.
HELL FUCKIN YEA!!!!!
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Kudos to you for dealing with that shit. Not that you really had a choice. 98 restraints...psh...those douche nozzles need to be restrained.
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Kudos to you for dealing with that shit. Not that you really had a choice. 98 restraints...psh...those douche nozzles need to be restrained.
Yea.. they should be tied to those beds with some AP cocktails.
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Maybe they'll find it therapeutic. Being forced into a face down position then being drugged up? Good Golly, who wouldn't?
It should be in the PV video...
"what do you feel was the most beneficial part of your therapy at PV?"
"Well, I think that being forced to the floor by five large apes really proved to be a therapeutic experience for me. If I wasn't given those chemical restraints...I might be DEAD."
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Maybe they'll find it therapeutic. Being forced into a face down position then being drugged up? Good Golly, who wouldn't?
It should be in the PV video...
"what do you feel was the most beneficial part of your therapy at PV?"
"Well, I think that being forced to the floor by five large apes really proved to be a therapeutic experience for me. If I wasn't given those chemical restraints...I might be DEAD."
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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PV Video; The Uncut Version
*touching music*
"They don't have to worry about who's calling on their cell phones, they don't have to worry about their latest e-mail because not only do we restrict their communication and scan their mail, but they're tied to beds for hours at a time."
"Then, instead of looking at the world, they're looking at a tiled ceiling while tied to a bed."
"They learn to practice respect and tolerance for others while being encouraged to confront and manipulate their peers"
"AAU, a safe, 24 hour secured home where one person's journey becomes a team members because they're lumped into the same group; Troubled Teen"
...I can see it now.
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Well, I went thru the month of September 2004, 9 physical restraints and 6 physical restraints which turned over to mechanical restraints using the body net. this is from the time between 9/3/04 and 9/27/04
the mechanicals lasted
9:07 AM till 3:20 PM
9:40 AM to 3:50 PM
1:55PM to 10PM
2:15 PM to 4:15 PM
4:40 PM to 9PM
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The longest physical restraint in September 2004 was 8:41 AM till 11:25 AM... thats a long time for all those monkeys to be sitting on you
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The longest physical restraint in September 2004 was 8:41 AM till 11:25 AM... thats a long time for all those monkeys to be sitting on you
Shit.. I think in the some states it is actually illegal to restrain someone continously for that long.
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i would think it should be... they should be outlawed all together.
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LARGE avatars should also be outlawed.
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LARGE avatars should also be outlawed.
:rofl:
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TheWho believes in duct tape.
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there i fixed it.. happy now!? lol
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Zen agent said
Thanks for posting that, I've been asking for professional opinions on the use of antipsychotics in a restraint. Since settle is not and was not diagnosed as a psychotic, the AP dosages were high and using them as a restraint was damned improper and dangerous, and if properly investigated could cause serious trouble for the people who signed off on the restraint.
That's from an MD.
It's not unusual, per se, to use AP's as chemical restraints. & just an FYI, you don't need to be diagnosed as having aform of psychosis in order to warrant the chemical restraint.
& there is a difference between a chemical restraint and an IM injection for use in an acute crisis. (ie, someone with a knife to their throat, on the ledge of a window) - the difference is the short-acting nature of an IM injection - that's why it's a short acting AP (geodon, zyprexa) and benadryl.
The unusual thing in settle's case is the use of 2 long-acting AP's and benadryl over a prolonged period of time, continuously.
It doesn't make sense to use that kind of restraint, that often - which would imply that indeed settle had a psychosis. To which we know she doesn't. So, you can conclude she was being over-medicated in a very punitive way.
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Peninsula Healthcare employees, staff, and others rendering care are authorized to use whatever measures may be
reasonably necessary to protect the welfare of the patient and others, to prevent injury or damage, and to prevent patient from leaving
Peninsula Healthcare without proper notice or discharge. Such measures may include the appropriate and humane use of restraints.
humane? ha.
Throughout the course of treatment, patients may
communicate freely with their parents or legal guardians
by mail and during their weekly Family Therapy sessions.
wow, you'd never know.
Be protected from the use of excessive medication. Medication
shall not be used for punishment, discipline, or staff
convenience.
Be free from any physical punishment or any type of physical
abuse.
We are committed to the safety and well-being of our patients
and we do not, in any way, condone or permit use of physical
punishment or any type of physical abuse. If a patient feels they have been inappropriately punished or abused in any
way, they should immediately submit their complaint to staff
in writing on a 3x5 card.
anyone given any 3x5 cards here?
Rediculous.
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1. The commitment of Peninsula Village is to prevent, reduce, and strive to eliminate the use of seclusion and mechanical restraint.
Our goal is to prevent emergencies that have the potential to lead to the use of seclusion or mechanical restraint whenever possible
and we strive to raise awareness among staff about how seclusion or mechanical restraint might be experienced by the patient.
forgot this one. Interesting, huh?
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http://www.thejournalnews.com/rtc/27part7.htm (http://www.thejournalnews.com/rtc/27part7.htm)
Manufacturers push their psychotropics
(This is part of a Journal News report on the widespread use of drugs at residential treatment centers. The story was reported and written by staff writers Jorge Fitz-Gibbon and Dwight R. Worley. Links to other parts of the article can be found at the end of this section. )
At the heart of the debate over psychotropic drug use in children is the pharmaceutical industry, a $250 billion business that Fortune magazine called the world's most profitable in its 2000 review of corporate earnings. Fortune listed two psychotropic drugs manufactured by Eli Lilly among the top-selling "blockbuster" drugs: Prozac, with $2.7 billion in sales, and Zyprexa, with $1.9 billion.
Marketing has been instrumental in bolstering sales. Advocacy groups like the Child and Adolescent Bipolar Foundation, which promote bipolar awareness, education and treatment, are funded in large part by pharmaceutical manufacturers. Four of the group's top five corporate donors are drug makers.
Since 1997, pharmaceutical companies have also been allowed to advertise directly to consumers, a rarity in the developed world.
The pharmaceutical consulting and marketing firm IMS Health reported that drug manufacturers spent $19 billion in advertising last year alone.
Pharmaceutical companies are also active lobbyists in Washington, with well over 600 registered lobbyists — more than the oil industry. Mitch Daniels, director of President Bush's Office of Management and Budget, is a former Eli Lilly vice president.
Drug makers made $26.5 million in campaign contributions in 2000, up from $3.1 million a decade earlier, according to the campaign finance watchdog group Open Secrets.
Critics have charged that pharmaceutical influence has seeped into the medical profession as well. Dr. Loren Mosher, clinical professor of psychiatry at the University of California, is one of the leading critics.
In 1998, he resigned his membership in the American Psychiatric Association, charging that the association "reflects and reinforces, in word and deed, our drug-dependent society."
"The problem is, psychiatry all depends on grants and contracts," Mosher said. "The big ones, the ones who are doing research, depend a lot on grants from the pharmaceutical companies for staying in business, so to speak. So it's really pervasive. It's all over the place. You can't get away from it."
In 1999, Eli Lilly stopped making annual contributions of $25,000 to The Hastings Center in Garrison, a medical ethics think tank, after it published an article by Dr. David Healey, a noted psychiatrist.
Healey had been an expert witness against Lilly in court and did a study at the University of Wales that found healthy adults became belligerent, fearful and suicidal when using Prozac.
For its part, the pharmaceutical industry rebuts criticism of its influence. Jeff Trewhitt, spokesman for the Pharmaceutical Researchers and Manufacturers of America, or PHARMA, the national trade association for the industry, said drug makers simply produce the medications. They don't prescribe them.
"We have, at great expense, researched, developed and produced these medicines," he said. "There are medicines that are helping a large number of patients, and we certainly make sure that doctors have information about these medicines. It's up to them to make a basic, fundamental decision as to whether or not to use it.
"It strikes us that the system is working very well, and we would be a lot worse off without these medicines."
Drug companies, including Eli Lilly, refer doctors to outside literature or reports on using the medications on children, including the antipsychotic Zyprexa, one of the company's newer products. Marni Lemons, an Eli Lilly spokeswoman, said Zyprexa is not marketed for children.
At St. Agatha Home, Small insists that the days of the hard sell, when companies lavished expensive gifts and trips on doctors, are over.
Yet, he concedes that pharmaceutical representatives still visit about three times a week. A small purple clock with a white Zyprexa logo sits on his desk — a gift from a pharmaceutical representative.
Yes, Small said, Zyprexa is used, both on some of the retarded adults in his care as well as in the children.
Most RTCs use it as well, primarily for diagnoses of schizophrenia and acute mania. For critics, that is a troubling fact.
"It's a very suppressive drug," said Breggin, the director of the International Center for the Study of Psychology and Psychiatry. "This drug is like putting cement in the brain of a child."
A good series...
http://www.thejournalnews.com/rtc/index1.htm (http://www.thejournalnews.com/rtc/index1.htm)
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The longest physical restraint in September 2004 was 8:41 AM till 11:25 AM... thats a long time for all those monkeys to be sitting on you
Shit.. I think in the some states it is actually illegal to restrain someone continously for that long.
Only in some states?????
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Words of Warning to the Medical Staff
“Psychiatric hospitals are under a
microscope...Everyone is upset about how you
use restraints. The 60 Minutes Show reflects the
peoples’ perceptions of your hospital. You are
obligated to make them change their minds...It is
a challenge to be attentive and thoughtful with
restraints. Some hospitals put their staff and
physicians in them to see what it is like. And in
every case those staff and physicians will be less
likely to use restraints. It’s a question of
dignity. Restraints are dehumanizing. You must
ask yourselves: Are you using them only when
you’ve tried everything else?â€
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Department of Health and Human Services
http://oig.hhs.gov/oei/reports/oei-04-99-00150.pdf[/url]
(Extract, pg. 11)
Time Limits
HCFA’s new Patients’ Rights Condition of Participation limits the duration of each written restraint or seclusion order to 4 hours for adults, 2 hours for adolescents age 9 to 17, and 1 hour for children under age nine. Original orders may be renewed for up to a total of 24 hours before requiring a second face-to-face physician or licensed independent practitioner evaluation.
State Policies
The State policies in 43 percent of the States limited restraint and seclusion orders in public psychiatric hospitals to between 1 and 4 hours in duration. Conversely, only 9 percent of the States had a similar limit for restraint and seclusion orders in private psychiatric hospitals. Table 3 shows State policies for time limits on restraints and seclusion for both public and private psychiatric hospitals.
As Table 3 shows, 11 percent of the States did not establish physician order time limits for public psychiatric hospitals. Almost 35 percent of the States did not establish physician order time limits for private psychiatric hospitals. In such instances, the hospitals
established their own policies.
Seven of the 15 States told us their State policy varied between 1and 4 hours in duration for physician orders in public psychiatric hospitals. The time limits varied depending on a patient’s age. All seven State policies were identical to the new Condition of
Participation: 4 hours for adults, 2 hours for adolescents 9 to 17 years of age, and 1 hour for children under 9 years of age. None of the State policies for private hospitals made this distinction.
The mental health professionals we interviewed agreed that restraint and seclusion physician orders should be time limited. They said patients should be frequently evaluated and released as soon as possible. The importance of this guidance was emphasized by the Hartford Courant article that related a death to a lengthy restraint. In that instance, a 38 year-old man died from medical complications after being restrained to a bed for 18 hours.
Such adverse outcomes highlight the importance of frequently evaluating patients who are restrained or secluded. A short time limit on restraint and seclusion physician orders requires frequent oversight and evaluation of patients.
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http://studentnurseca.blogspot.com/2005 ... raint.html (http://studentnurseca.blogspot.com/2005/09/take-down-psychiatric-restraint.html)
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[img]http://www.deuterio.net/photoplog/images/1/1_xenu-pam.jpg[img]
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(http://http://www.deuterio.net/photoplog/images/1/1_xenu-pam.jpg)
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Why on earth should restraint ever go on past an episode of an outburst?
One hour is too long, a full hour is rather obviously a punishment. All periods of time longer than that are rather obviously to punish the person acting out as well.
Extended periods of time in restraint (unwillingly) is torture, plain and simple.
I don't get how people excuse this. ::T::
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http://studentnurseca.blogspot.com/2005 ... raint.html (http://studentnurseca.blogspot.com/2005/09/take-down-psychiatric-restraint.html)
10 year-old Francisco was having a bad day, and loosing a Volleyball game sent him over the edge. He pushed down another kid and started running a very foul mouth.
Staff Intervention #1: Removed other children from the area and assigned a staff member to "talk him down." This involves calming words and setting limits verbally.
Francisco continued to swear at the staff member. Then, he picked up a chair as if to though it.
Staff Intervention #2: Placed Francisco in the Quiet Room (a padded room with a bed) with a staff member in the doorway. The staff member continued to talk him down.
Francisco continued to swear, and then spit at the staff member and on the walls.
Staff Intervention #3: Required that Francisco take a sedative, either in pill or shot form.
Francisco refused the pill, so a rapid takedown using as little force as possible to get the job done. He was then left to rest in the quiet room with a staff member watching from the doorway.
I was impressed that this team took every step possible to prevent a forced takedown and chemical restraint. I'ts not perfect, but three cheers for progress in Psychiatry care.
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http://studentnurseca.blogspot.com/2005 ... raint.html (http://studentnurseca.blogspot.com/2005/09/take-down-psychiatric-restraint.html)
10 year-old Francisco was having a bad day, and loosing a Volleyball game sent him over the edge. He pushed down another kid and started running a very foul mouth.
Staff Intervention #1: Removed other children from the area and assigned a staff member to "talk him down." This involves calming words and setting limits verbally.
Francisco continued to swear at the staff member. Then, he picked up a chair as if to though it.
Staff Intervention #2: Placed Francisco in the Quiet Room (a padded room with a bed) with a staff member in the doorway. The staff member continued to talk him down.
Francisco continued to swear, and then spit at the staff member and on the walls.
Staff Intervention #3: Required that Francisco take a sedative, either in pill or shot form.
Francisco refused the pill, so a rapid takedown using as little force as possible to get the job done. He was then left to rest in the quiet room with a staff member watching from the doorway.
I was impressed that this team took every step possible to prevent a forced takedown and chemical restraint. I'ts not perfect, but three cheers for progress in Psychiatry care.
Three cheers... for Francisco, "running a very foul mouth" and picking "up a chair as if to though (sic) it". The lad's competitive in the All-American style. Francisco's day was indeed bad. The "rapid takedown" involved enough force to jam a pill in his mouth or stick a needle in him, and isn't that a chemical restraint? They like to use a little benzodiazepine at PV, according to records. Not only does it reduce the kid to Jell-O, it has the added benefit of fogging the memory. However, there is a risk:
Paradoxical reactions
Severe behavioral changes resulting from benzodiazepines have been reported including mania, schizophrenia, anger, impulsivity, and hypomania.[31] Individuals with borderline personality disorder appear to have a greater risk of experiencing severe behavioral or psychiatric disturbances from benzodiazepines. Aggression and violent outbursts can also occur with benzodiazepines, particularly when they are combined with alcohol
(Wikipedia)
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The "rapid takedown" involved enough force to jam a pill in his mouth or stick a needle in him
I assumed when I read it that they forced him down onto the floor in a prone position, pulled his pants and underwear down and jammed his butt with a syringe.
From the comments section (a health inspector):
Sounds like your hospital has a good policy and actually uses restraint the way it's intended to be.
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Staff Intervention #2: Placed Francisco in the Quiet Room (a padded room with a bed) with a staff member in the doorway. The staff member continued to talk him down.
How did he get to the "Quiet Room"?
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Seems like there is a huge gap in between Intervention #s 2 and 3. Does spitting necessitate a sedative in response these days?
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"It's a very suppressive drug," said Breggin, the director of the International Center for the Study of Psychology and Psychiatry. "This drug is like putting cement in the brain of a child."
Isn't Peter Breggin a Scientology cult guy?
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Seems like there is a huge gap in between Intervention #s 2 and 3. Does spitting necessitate a sedative in response these days?
The spitting in and of itself doesn’t necessitate a sedative, I can agree with that. The spitting episode was a clear sign that the staff wasn’t going to be successful in talking down Francisco. This seems like a good example of controlling a situation from getting out of hand.. Removing the other kids from the area… trying to talk to the child before moving on to restraints. I cant see anything that could have been added to the procedure that would have improved things any. Does anyone else?
...
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Seems like there is a huge gap in between Intervention #s 2 and 3. Does spitting necessitate a sedative in response these days?
The spitting in and of itself doesn’t necessitate a sedative, I can agree with that. The spitting episode was a clear sign that the staff wasn’t going to be successful in talking down Francisco. This seems like a good example of controlling a situation from getting out of hand.. Removing the other kids from the area… trying to talk to the child before moving on to restraints. I cant see anything that could have been added to the procedure that would have improved things any. Does anyone else?
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Yeah, I worked for several years in two of the "industry's" worst shit-pits. NEVER, not even once, EVER, did I have to put my hands on or restrain a child in any way. It's simply not necessary. A skilled clinician never needs to resort to violence against a child. I proved that personally for years and I had some of the "worst" kids ever admitted.
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Seems like there is a huge gap in between Intervention #s 2 and 3. Does spitting necessitate a sedative in response these days?
The spitting in and of itself doesn’t necessitate a sedative, I can agree with that. The spitting episode was a clear sign that the staff wasn’t going to be successful in talking down Francisco. This seems like a good example of controlling a situation from getting out of hand.. Removing the other kids from the area… trying to talk to the child before moving on to restraints. I cant see anything that could have been added to the procedure that would have improved things any. Does anyone else?
...
Yeah, I worked for several years in two of the "industry's" worst shit-pits. NEVER, not even once, EVER, did I have to put my hands on or restrain a child in any way. It's simply not necessary. A skilled clinician never needs to resort to violence against a child. I proved that personally for years and I had some of the "worst" kids ever admitted.
This was my sense too. I thought it to be extremely rare to have to use restraints on a child. Most schools would have the child removed or transfered to a hospital setting after an initial occurance. This isnt something that would continue in most TBS's. You stated you worked in the worse of the worse places and it was still very rare, which tells me the use of restraints is confined to a few schools in the industry.
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No, what I said was that I never had to restrain a child. I worked with a bunch of thugs and quacks that seemed to get off on doing it. My point is that it is never necessary, period (before anyone moans and groans, yes, if the kid is actively harming self or others I would intervene physically to stop the violence, but kids like this shouldn't be candidates for these places).
So, yes, restraint is extremely common in these places and more often than not, it is administered for the wrong reasons and done incorrectly by untrained, uneducated staff.
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http://www.aclu.org/prison/mentalhealth ... 70214.html (http://www.aclu.org/prison/mentalhealth/28368res20070214.html)