Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Aspen Education Group => Topic started by: Anonymous on November 13, 2007, 06:49:05 PM
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Aspen's looking for staff with credentials. Getting their ducks in a row in case the GAO takes a closer look at them?
http://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=company%3A ... ROUP%22&l= (http://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=company%3A%22ASPEN+EDUCATION+GROUP%22&l=)
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Straight out of the 'doomed to backfire' department. The reason they hire people without credentials is not only for the low wages they can pay them, it's also for the fact that someone with a real background in social work and psychology might blow the whistle on the whole thing.
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Aspen's looking for staff with credentials. Getting their ducks in a row in case the GAO takes a closer look at them?
http://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=company%3A ... ROUP%22&l= (http://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=company%3A%22ASPEN+EDUCATION+GROUP%22&l=)
No, it will not effect the GAO investigation. They look at all the past records and snap shots of who was working during any problem periods they find or uncover.
These are just normal business postings.
Nice post!
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Why the sudden need for credentialed people? Why the lack of them before? Christ, dontcha just love the spin on this shit?? First, Who says they don't need to be licensed, credentialed, accredited. Now, when it looks like people are getting upset about the lack of qualifications, Who can run around touting all the great changes that are going on and how much they're all improving. Where was all the concern a while back? Where was all the concern when kids started talking about what really went on behind closed doors? Y'all didn't give a shit then, but now? Now??? Sure, now that the GAO has[/b] gotten involved, suddenly you guys are running around hiring 'qualified' people. Shame on you.
Why have there been so many unlicensed, unqualified whackos taking care of these kids? And PLEASE, for the love of all that is right and decent, do NOT start these inane business comparisons. Dealing with troubled kids (whether or not they even ARE troubled is up for debate also) is NOT akin to selling a fucking car.
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Anne. You know it's pointless; why persist?
Trying to get TheWho to say anything with any meaning is like trying to tame a squirrel.
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Why the sudden need for credentialed people? Why the lack of them before? Christ, dontcha just love the spin on this shit?? First, Who says they don't need to be licensed, credentialed, accredited. Now, when it looks like people are getting upset about the lack of qualifications, Who can run around touting all the great changes that are going on and how much they're all improving. Where was all the concern a while back? Where was all the concern when kids started talking about what really went on behind closed doors? Y'all didn't give a shit then, but now? Now??? Sure, now that the GAO has[/b] gotten involved, suddenly you guys are running around hiring 'qualified' people. Shame on you.
Why have there been so many unlicensed, unqualified whackos taking care of these kids? And PLEASE, for the love of all that is right and decent, do NOT start these inane business comparisons. Dealing with troubled kids (whether or not they even ARE troubled is up for debate also) is NOT akin to selling a fucking car.
Calm down, Anne, that conversation was about teachers…… i.e. the majority of teachers in private schools and universities are not licensed and don’t need to be. Licensing is a requirement for public school teachers not private schools or Universities.
Therapists have always been required to be licensed (the hiring requirements haven’t changed) and even if they were not it isn’t going to fool the GAO investigation because the GAO reviews a “point in timeâ€
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Why the sudden need for credentialed people? Why the lack of them before? Christ, dontcha just love the spin on this shit?? First, Who says they don't need to be licensed, credentialed, accredited. Now, when it looks like people are getting upset about the lack of qualifications, Who can run around touting all the great changes that are going on and how much they're all improving. Where was all the concern a while back? Where was all the concern when kids started talking about what really went on behind closed doors? Y'all didn't give a shit then, but now? Now??? Sure, now that the GAO has[/b] gotten involved, suddenly you guys are running around hiring 'qualified' people. Shame on you.
Why have there been so many unlicensed, unqualified whackos taking care of these kids? And PLEASE, for the love of all that is right and decent, do NOT start these inane business comparisons. Dealing with troubled kids (whether or not they even ARE troubled is up for debate also) is NOT akin to selling a fucking car.
Calm down, Anne, that conversation was about teachers…… i.e. the majority of teachers in private schools and universities are not licensed and don’t need to be. Licensing is a requirement for public school teachers not private schools or Universities.
Therapists have always been required to be licensed (the hiring requirements haven’t changed) and even if they were not it isn’t going to fool the GAO investigation because the GAO reviews a “point in timeâ€
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Anne, you misquoted TheWho - what he said was even more damning -
No they dont.... There is no law that says teachers need to get a license....... most professionals dont bother to get licensed unless they are going to work for the state or working independently.
He said MOST PROFESSIONALS don't need to be licensed.
Oh well, another day, another Who contradiction. What a colossal waster of time.
CAPTCHA - leadership dummy
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Anne, you misquoted TheWho - what he said was even more damning -
No they dont.... There is no law that says teachers need to get a license....... most professionals dont bother to get licensed unless they are going to work for the state or working independently.
He said MOST PROFESSIONALS don't need to be licensed.
Oh well, another day, another Who contradiction. What a colossal waster of time.
CAPTCHA - leadership dummy
If you lumped all the professionals i.e. teachers, engineers, accountants, ... you would see that the majority are not licensed and dont need to be. The only reason an Engineer,Teacher or accountant needs to be licensed is if they are going to work for themselves (in some cases) or work for the state. The vast majority of professionals work in the corporate world which , for the most part, dont require their employees to be licensed.
Hope this clarifies
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If you lumped all the professionals i.e. teachers, engineers, accountants, ... you would see that the majority are not licensed and dont need to be. The only reason an Engineer,Teacher or accountant needs to be licensed is if they are going to work for themselves (in some cases) or work for the state. The vast majority of professionals work in the corporate world which , for the most part, dont require their employees to be licensed.
Hope this clarifies
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Yeah, it clarifies that you're a soul-less dickhead.
Therapists!! Remember, we're dealing with kids who are going to be DEADINSANEORINJAIL!!!! We're not talking teachers, janitors and engineers. We're talking about people who get inside kids' heads and fuck around with them. I'd want that person to be at least a little qualified to do so, but that's just me.
What a fucking asshole! :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
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If you lumped all the professionals i.e. teachers, engineers, accountants, ... you would see that the majority are not licensed and dont need to be. The only reason an Engineer,Teacher or accountant needs to be licensed is if they are going to work for themselves (in some cases) or work for the state. The vast majority of professionals work in the corporate world which , for the most part, dont require their employees to be licensed.
Hope this clarifies
yes, alan - it does.
I'm just posting it again, so when the time arises, we can use this contradiction again. (even though the entire statement is flase - the majority of professionals work for corporations???) um, I don't think so - you can get that info from the government, i won't waste my time.
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If you lumped all the professionals i.e. teachers, engineers, accountants, ... you would see that the majority are not licensed and dont need to be. The only reason an Engineer,Teacher or accountant needs to be licensed is if they are going to work for themselves (in some cases) or work for the state. The vast majority of professionals work in the corporate world which , for the most part, dont require their employees to be licensed.
Hope this clarifies
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Yeah, it clarifies that you're a soul-less dickhead.
Therapists!! Remember, we're dealing with kids who are going to be DEADINSANEORINJAIL!!!! We're not talking teachers, janitors and engineers. We're talking about people who get inside kids' heads and fuck around with them. I'd want that person to be at least a little qualified to do so, but that's just me.
What a fucking asshole! :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
Wow!! you are ripping mad today! What going on? Its an exchange of ideas, take it easy.
The conversation that quote was taken from (if I remember correctly) we were talking about teachers and whether or not they needed to be licensed (and I said they did not,in the private sector, and not sure you were part of it Anne). This lead to a braoder discussion of all professionals. Psychiatrists, psychologists etc. need to be licensed, I beleive this applies in every state. I dont think there was ever a disagreement here. The therapist my daughter saw at ASR was licensed. I can not speak to all schools, but that was my experience.
My daughter also went thru some testing while at SUWS and this was also performed by a licensed professional therapist with the state Virginia.
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Wow!! you are ripping mad today! What going on? Its an exchange of ideas, take it easy.
I'm not pissed, just on a roll Alan.
The conversation that quote was taken from (if I remember correctly) we were talking about teachers and whether or not they needed to be licensed (and I said they did not,in the private sector, and not sure you were part of it Anne). This lead to a braoder discussion of all professionals. Psychiatrists, psychologists etc. need to be licensed, I beleive this applies in every state. I dont think there was ever a disagreement here. The therapist my daughter saw at ASR was licensed. I can not speak to all schools, but that was my experience.
My daughter also went thru some testing while at SUWS and this was also performed by a licensed professional therapist with the state Virginia.
Well great. I'm glad at least someone got seen by a qualified person. That's usually not the case. Kids are shipped off, very often, on just the parents word alone. No diagnosis from a credible doctor, just exasperated parents. Then when they get there, they're 'treated', very often, by former inmates of the same institution with really no other qualifications than that. Again, we're talking about fucking around inside someone's head. A teenagers head. There had BETTER be qualified people to do that.
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Anyone else notice him doing a complete 180?
Sorry Who, but there's been too many QFT's done on your earlier posts for anyone not to know how you argued against licensing. Don't pretend like you care now.
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The conversation that quote was taken from (if I remember correctly) we were talking about teachers and whether or not they needed to be licensed (and I said they did not,in the private sector, and not sure you were part of it Anne). This lead to a braoder discussion of all professionals.
wrong, alan.
I brought in the xample of teachers to refute your claim "most professionals don't need to be licensed." See, you said it right here!
if you look at all the teachers that abused kids over the past decade 99.9 % of them were licensed professionals, is that suppose to make us feel warm and fuzzy about the licensing process?
here is the link where alan (thewho) says MOST PROFESSIONALS DON"T NEED TO BE LICENSED!!!!!
http://http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=23843&start=40
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Its not a 180:
Here I will say it again:
So to conclude, the majority of all professionals are not licensed and don’t need to be. Since when should people feel that being licensed means being safe
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Its not a 180:
Here I will say it again:
So to conclude,
But that's just me.
:roll: :roll:
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then what difference should it make when you say -
The therapist my daughter saw at ASR was licensed. I can not speak to all schools, but that was my experience.
My daughter also went thru some testing while at SUWS and this was also performed by a licensed professional therapist with the state Virginia.
The only reason an Engineer,Teacher or accountant needs to be licensed is if they are going to work for themselves (in some cases) or work for the state.
So, your daughter was seen by state therapists? Or private? because if you are working in the private sector - according to you, you don't need to be licensed.
you can't have it both ways - everything you say is a contradiction.
Honestly, I have not seen anything meaningful or relevanyt come out of anything you have to post.
all manipulative lies -
more who/alan spin
(http://http://www.soc.hawaii.edu/leonj/leonj/leonpsy16/spin-arrows.gif)
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then what difference should it make when you say -
The therapist my daughter saw at ASR was licensed. I can not speak to all schools, but that was my experience.
My daughter also went thru some testing while at SUWS and this was also performed by a licensed professional therapist with the state Virginia.
The only reason an Engineer,Teacher or accountant needs to be licensed is if they are going to work for themselves (in some cases) or work for the state.
So, your daughter was seen by state therapists? Or private? because if you are working in the private sector - according to you, you don't need to be licensed.
you can't have it both ways - everything you say is a contradiction.
Honestly, I have not seen anything meaningful or relevanyt come out of anything you have to post.
all manipulative lies -
more who/alan spin
(http://http://www.soc.hawaii.edu/leonj/leonj/leonpsy16/spin-arrows.gif)
Read it again, Ha,Ha,Ha, "The only reason an Engineer,Teacher or accountant needs to be licensed is if they are going to work for themselves (in some cases) or work for the state."
Psychiatrists, psychologists need to be licensed...... slow down a little.
Did you catch that Anne? dont want to double post.
I Like you "Spin arrows" I borrowed this, if you dont mind, for a presentation I am doing.
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can you read, alan?
Can you follow the argument and your contradictory statements from one post to another?
Just wondering - & BTW, if you like my arrows, feel free - i have another pic for you -
(http://http://www.xsltblog.com/archives/fuck-you-002.jpg)
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Read it again, Ha,Ha,Ha, "The only reason an Engineer,Teacher or accountant needs to be licensed is if they are going to work for themselves (in some cases) or work for the state."
Psychiatrists, psychologists need to be licensed...... slow down a little.
Did you catch that Anne? dont want to double post.
I Like you "Spin arrows" I borrowed this, if you dont mind, for a presentation I am doing.
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The more little "ha ha ha"s you post Alan, the more I know this is getting to you.
::bwahaha::
Yes, I caught that. I also caught your assertion that licensing is really unimportant. I think differently.
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I also caught your assertion that licensing is really unimportant. I think differently.
Yeah, seriously - he writes how it's not important and even hurting the *industry* to have licensing and regulations. What a twit.
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Can you follow the argument and your contradictory statements from one post to another?
We can follow the argument, but we can not spot the contradictory statements. They must be in your head.
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I also caught your assertion that licensing is really unimportant. I think differently.
Yeah, seriously - he writes how it's not important and even hurting the *industry* to have licensing and regulations. What a twit.
Everyone has an opinion and I have been on the fence about industry regulation and licensing (and I do go back and forth). I dont think the governement is going to improve the conditions of the schools so I dont think the long fight for regulation will do a thing to help the kids..... there needs to be something else.
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Perhaps getting a few professionals in to work at an on the ground level is not a bad thing. I would think that any professional worth their salt who saw what went on by working directly with the kids on a daily basis would be more likely to leave in disgust and speak up.
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Perhaps getting a few professionals in to work at an on the ground level is not a bad thing. I would think that any professional worth their salt who saw what went on by working directly with the kids on a daily basis would be more likely to leave in disgust and speak up.
This is why many are not convinced that there are any systemic problems with abuse in the industry. The schools are staffed with people who are dedicating their careers and lives to helping children, whether they are degreed or are in the process of getting their degree. Many staff members move on after a few years to go back to school to further their education, private practice, further training and if they had witnessed any abuse or systemic problems these would have been reported.
In the case of my daughter, it would have been very difficult for her to have been abused because she was seeing a trained therapist each week (independent from the school) who was in contact with her therapist at home.
So I agree with you OzGirl that having professionals in contact with the kids as much as possible alleviates the chances of the kids being placed into a situation where they can be taken advantage of or procedures written which could put them in harm’s way.
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This is why many are not convinced that there are any systemic problems with abuse in the industry. The schools are staffed with people who are dedicating their careers and lives to helping children, whether they are degreed or are in the process of getting their degree. Many staff members move on after a few years to go back to school to further their education, private practice, further training and if they had witnessed any abuse or systemic problems these would have been reported.
In the case of my daughter, it would have been very difficult for her to have been abused because she was seeing a trained therapist each week (independent from the school) who was in contact with her therapist at home.
So I agree with you OzGirl that having professionals in contact with the kids as much as possible alleviates the chances of the kids being placed into a situation where they can be taken advantage of or procedures written which could put them in harm’s way.
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This pro-program propaganda is being brought to you by an industry shill who used his own daughter as an advertising tool to fatten his wallet. A man who would sell out his own daughter would surely sell out your kid.
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This is why many are not convinced that there are any systemic problems with abuse in the industry. The schools are staffed with people who are dedicating their careers and lives to helping children, whether they are degreed or are in the process of getting their degree. Many staff members move on after a few years to go back to school to further their education, private practice, further training and if they had witnessed any abuse or systemic problems these would have been reported.
In the case of my daughter, it would have been very difficult for her to have been abused because she was seeing a trained therapist each week (independent from the school) who was in contact with her therapist at home.
So I agree with you OzGirl that having professionals in contact with the kids as much as possible alleviates the chances of the kids being placed into a situation where they can be taken advantage of or procedures written which could put them in harm’s way.
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This pro-program propaganda is being brought to you by an industry shill who used his own daughter as an advertising tool to fatten his wallet. A man who would sell out his own daughter would surely sell out your kid.
I read somewhere that his daughter did really well and the school helped her turn her life around and she ended up finishing school and going on to college.
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I read somewhere that his daughter did really well and the school helped her turn her life around and she ended up finishing school and going on to college.
Industries have nothing to do with treatment as they only serve to make kids compliant through abusive tactics[/color].
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I read somewhere that his daughter did really well and the school helped her turn her life around and she ended up finishing school and going on to college.
Industries have nothing to do with treatment as they only serve to make kids compliant through abusive tactics[/color].
Check some of the individual schools and ask about their policies towards discipline. If they are not in line with your families beliefs then choose a different school. I don’t believe in all of the “tough loveâ€
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Which one doesn't? Let me take a look through the Aspen (http://http://www.aspeneducation.info) site to see which one doesn't do that...
Nope! Not seeing any ones that don't here. Looks like they're all hellholes.
Thanks for playing.
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Which one doesn't? Let me take a look through the Aspen (http://http://www.aspeneducation.info) site to see which one doesn't do that...
Nope! Not seeing any ones that don't here. Looks like they're all hellholes.
Thanks for playing.
I think the point that was trying to be made was exactly that. We shouldnt tell parents to rely on web sites (parody or not). They should visit the schools and determine for themselves if it is a good fit for their family. They shouldnt listen solely to kids here on fornits or programmies but should choose for themselves by visiting.
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Which one doesn't? Let me take a look through the Aspen (http://http://www.aspeneducation.info) site to see which one doesn't do that...
Nope! Not seeing any ones that don't here. Looks like they're all hellholes.
Thanks for playing.
I think the point that was trying to be made was exactly that. We shouldnt tell parents to rely on web sites (parody or not). They should visit the schools and determine for themselves if it is a good fit for their family. They shouldnt listen solely to kids here on fornits or programmies but should choose for themselves by visiting.
Yeah, parents should go to the facility and talk with with the brainwashed kids who would be in fear of talking negative about the facility in fear of some abuse and reprisal from staff (extending the term of their stay, setting them back, cutting off the limited communications with parents). Get the high pressure sales tactics (being told that their kid is going to die if they don't put them in their program).
I think this is an excellent idea. It sounds like something a pro-program shill would say.
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This is why many are not convinced that there are any systemic problems with abuse in the industry. The schools are staffed with people who are dedicating their careers and lives to helping children, whether they are degreed or are in the process of getting their degree. Many staff members move on after a few years to go back to school to further their education, private practice, further training and if they had witnessed any abuse or systemic problems these would have been reported.
Highly unlikely. Ex staff don't report what they see. They aren't willing to be blackballed if they wish to continue working in the Industry/MH field. Word travels. They also want to avoid slap suits and loss of severence pay,etc.
Dedicated to helping children is a very relative term. Randal Hinton and too many others to mention, consider abuse to be help/treatment. One person sees caning as abuse, another sees it as appropriate discipline.
The absolute truth is that parents can't determine a strangers values in an interview or visit. That's why, if they choose to place their kids, they shouldn't allow contact to be severed under any circumstances. Their child is the only person who can report what goes on behind closed doors.
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This is why many are not convinced that there are any systemic problems with abuse in the industry. The schools are staffed with people who are dedicating their careers and lives to helping children, whether they are degreed or are in the process of getting their degree. Many staff members move on after a few years to go back to school to further their education, private practice, further training and if they had witnessed any abuse or systemic problems these would have been reported.
Highly unlikely. Ex staff don't report what they see. They aren't willing to be blackballed if they wish to continue working in the Industry/MH field. Word travels. They also want to avoid slap suits and loss of severence pay,etc.
Dedicated to helping children is a very relative term. Randal Hinton and too many others to mention, consider abuse to be help/treatment. One person sees caning as abuse, another sees it as appropriate discipline.
The absolute truth is that parents can't determine a strangers values in an interview or visit. That's why, if they choose to place their kids, they shouldn't allow contact to be severed under any circumstances. Their child is the only person who can report what goes on behind closed doors.
Exactly!!! When you're buying a product you here what the manufacturer of the product has to say, then you go to Epinions and see what people's actual experience with the product is.
Neglecting to speak with those who had unpleasant experiences, those willing to risk slap suits in order to tell the truth about a program, would be a gross oversight. It could cost them a lot in the long run- financially and in terms of their child's mental health and well being.
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Exactly!!! When you're buying a product you here what the manufacturer of the product has to say, then you go to Epinions and see what people's actual experience with the product is.
Neglecting to speak with those who had unpleasant experiences, those willing to risk slap suits in order to tell the truth about a program, would be a gross oversight. It could cost them a lot in the long run- financially and in terms of their child's mental health and well being.
I can't believe you would honestly compare products from manufacturers to your kid.
Tell us Who..... It's all about putting another dollar in your wallet, isn't it????
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I can't believe you would honestly compare products from manufacturers to your kid.
That's a constant theme with him.
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This is why many are not convinced that there are any systemic problems with abuse in the industry. The schools are staffed with people who are dedicating their careers and lives to helping children, whether they are degreed or are in the process of getting their degree. Many staff members move on after a few years to go back to school to further their education, private practice, further training and if they had witnessed any abuse or systemic problems these would have been reported.
Highly unlikely. Ex staff don't report what they see. They aren't willing to be blackballed if they wish to continue working in the Industry/MH field. Word travels. They also want to avoid slap suits and loss of severence pay,etc.
Dedicated to helping children is a very relative term. Randal Hinton and too many others to mention, consider abuse to be help/treatment. One person sees caning as abuse, another sees it as appropriate discipline.
The absolute truth is that parents can't determine a strangers values in an interview or visit. That's why, if they choose to place their kids, they shouldn't allow contact to be severed under any circumstances. Their child is the only person who can report what goes on behind closed doors.
Of course a person can not talk if they have been terminated or they could lose severance. This goes for any corporation. What I am saying is there are many, many young people who are passing thru these TBS's on their way to getting their Masters and Doctorate in the field and they would be bound to speak out if they saw abuse going on.
As far as leaving their kids with others.... this is always a difficult decision when a child goes on to boarding school. I think the advantage parents have with a TBS is that they can ask for and get an independent therapist for their child to see once a week and have that therapist report home. This gives the parents an extra level of comfort that their child is doing okay and progressing thru the program.
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Exactly!!! When you're buying a product you here what the manufacturer of the product has to say, then you go to Epinions and see what people's actual experience with the product is.
Neglecting to speak with those who had unpleasant experiences, those willing to risk slap suits in order to tell the truth about a program, would be a gross oversight. It could cost them a lot in the long run- financially and in terms of their child's mental health and well being.
I can't believe you would honestly compare products from manufacturers to your kid.
Tell us Who..... It's all about putting another dollar in your wallet, isn't it????
That wasn’t me... sorry. But I don’t see why people get so bothered by analogies here... or trying to make a point by using cars or other corporations besides the Teen help industry. It is perfectly acceptable in any debate as a form of communicating to try and tie an idea or threaded connection from one situation to another... it doesn’t diminish the child any.
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This guy is a piece of work!!
then what difference should it make when you say -
The therapist my daughter saw at ASR was licensed. I can not speak to all schools, but that was my experience.
My daughter also went thru some testing while at SUWS and this was also performed by a licensed professional therapist with the state Virginia.
The only reason an Engineer,Teacher or accountant needs to be licensed is if they are going to work for themselves (in some cases) or work for the state.
So, your daughter was seen by state therapists? Or private? because if you are working in the private sector - according to you, you don't need to be licensed.
you can't have it both ways - everything you say is a contradiction.
Honestly, I have not seen anything meaningful or relevanyt come out of anything you have to post.
all manipulative lies -
more who/alan spin
(http://http://www.soc.hawaii.edu/leonj/leonj/leonpsy16/spin-arrows.gif)
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To borrow an expression from my brother,"IS THIS GOING SOMEWHERE, or JUST RUNNING LAPS?" ::)