Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Anonymous on November 09, 2007, 02:30:37 PM
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In the 90s it was:
Oppositional defiance disorder (since declared not a real* disorder. Oops, our bad. Sorry about that lobotomy
Borderline personality (ridiculous, fuck you)
ADD
This decade:
Aspergers (it’s all the rage, you never heard of it, now everyone’s got it. It’s today’s version of borderline…a kid isn’t doing anything “badâ€
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A diagnosis should not be used to stigmatize, hinder or be used *against* someone to incarcerate them.
However, calling them *bullshit* is ignorant. People do suffer from them and are subsequently helped by ethical practioners and/or medications.
You can argue the efficacy of the DSM etc. or medication.
Drugs are drugs. Use them wisely, they can be your friend.
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A diagnosis should not be used to stigmatize, hinder or be used *against* someone to incarcerate them.
However, calling them *bullshit* is ignorant. People do suffer from them and are subsequently helped by ethical practioners and/or medications.
You can argue the efficacy of the DSM etc. or medication.
Drugs are drugs. Use them wisely, they can be your friend.
Let me guess - you're a borderline????
Re: Let me guess .... you jump to conclusions, socially. Therefore, you are schizophrenic. No? Well, that's one of the symptoms of non-hallucinatory schizophrenia. See the problem in "diagnosing" mental illness?
Oppositional defiance disorder has indeed been shown to be "bullshit", in that it doesn't exist, AT ALL!
Borderline personality disorder is also "suspected" of being a disorder that does not, in fact, exist. It is overwhelmingly "diagnosed" in women, suggesting, not only, is it "bullshit", it's bullshit based in bigotry.
Here are the "symptoms": pervasive instability in moods, interpersonal relationships, self-image, and behavior. This instability often disrupts family and work life, long-term planning, and the individual's sense of self-identity
There are so many other possible explanations than a “personality disorderâ€
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A diagnosis should not be used to stigmatize, hinder or be used *against* someone to incarcerate them.
However, calling them *bullshit* is ignorant. People do suffer from them and are subsequently helped by ethical practioners and/or medications.
You can argue the efficacy of the DSM etc. or medication.
Drugs are drugs. Use them wisely, they can be your friend.
Judging from the reply directly following it, it appears this anon post was edited...? Just curious.
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A diagnosis should not be used to stigmatize, hinder or be used *against* someone to incarcerate them.
However, calling them *bullshit* is ignorant. People do suffer from them and are subsequently helped by ethical practioners and/or medications.
You can argue the efficacy of the DSM etc. or medication.
Drugs are drugs. Use them wisely, they can be your friend.
Judging from the reply directly following it, it appears this anon post was edited...? Just curious.
I cut and pasted the "subject" into the text, because exhibited in fine print in the "descprition" portion of the web display, you couldnt see what i was responding to. :wink:
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Did someone already mention OCD?
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This is my reply...
(http://http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w235/mary980/TexasPoleDancer.gif)
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Did someone already mention OCD?
or wearing all black, I think that should be added, we had problems with that one in our family.
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How about being too smart? :rofl:
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i was diagnosed with BPD i believe its PTSD from this fuckin industry. FUCK that BPD shiiiiiiaaaatt
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A diagnosis should not be used to stigmatize, hinder or be used *against* someone to incarcerate them.
However, calling them *bullshit* is ignorant. People do suffer from them and are subsequently helped by ethical practioners and/or medications.
You can argue the efficacy of the DSM etc. or medication.
Drugs are drugs. Use them wisely, they can be your friend.
Let me guess - you're a borderline????
Re: Let me guess .... you jump to conclusions, socially. Therefore, you are schizophrenic. No? Well, that's one of the symptoms of non-hallucinatory schizophrenia. See the problem in "diagnosing" mental illness?
Oppositional defiance disorder has indeed been shown to be "bullshit", in that it doesn't exist, AT ALL!
Borderline personality disorder is also "suspected" of being a disorder that does not, in fact, exist. It is overwhelmingly "diagnosed" in women, suggesting, not only, is it "bullshit", it's bullshit based in bigotry.
Here are the "symptoms": pervasive instability in moods, interpersonal relationships, self-image, and behavior. This instability often disrupts family and work life, long-term planning, and the individual's sense of self-identity
There are so many other possible explanations than a “personality disorderâ€
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you wouldnt be diagnosed with shit if you didnt go to the psychiatrist and pay them money. .. stop going duh.
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How about being too smart? :rofl:
Yeah, "intellectualism" was part of my disease. Also, not swearing, words "bigger than marmalade", and not shaving my legs.
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In the 90s it was:
Oppositional defiance disorder (since declared not a real* disorder. Oops, our bad. Sorry about that lobotomy
Borderline personality (ridiculous, fuck you)
ADD
This decade:
Aspergers (it’s all the rage, you never heard of it, now everyone’s got it. It’s today’s version of borderline…a kid isn’t doing anything “badâ€
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Pitbull mom wrote:
Responsible parents and doctors will always eliminate medical and behavioral issues before trying medication. That being said, I do believe there is some overdiagnosis going on today, as there always has been, and docs who are not specialists sometimes rush too quickly into medication, and some parents look for a "quick fix". Any parent who puts their child on medication needs to do a LOT of homework first.
I agree with you, pitbull, but there are some areas in which coming up with a diagnoses and medicating and keeping your child medicated is beneficial to the family financially. The type of medication your child is receiving can dictate how much you will receive from the state.
There are presently about 580,000 kids in foster care and the families are paid accordingly:
.........................Daily............................................................Monthly
Ages 00-12 .... $14.24/Day......................................................$427/Month per child,+ clothing allowance
Ages 13-18 .... $17.58/Day......................................................$527/Month per child,+ clothing allowance
If you can manage to get the children diagnosed with something, anything then your monthly income increases as follows: (Levels indicate the severity of the problem), Ritalin being a Level I maybe and more psychotic would increase you to Level II and Level III.
..............................Level I.......................Level II...................................Level III.............
Ages 00-12.............$5..................................$10..........................................$15.....................an additional $150 – 450/Month per child,+ clothing allowance
Ages 13-18.............$6..................................$11..........................................$16.....................an additional $180 – 480/Month per child,+ clothing allowance
Med. Fragile............$8..................................$13..........................................$18.....................an additional $240 – 540/Month per child, + clothing allowance
The Child Welfare League of America reports, "Approximately 60 percent of all children in out-of-home care have moderate to severe mental health problems [ ... ] Adolescents living with foster parents or in group homes have about four times the rate of serious psychiatric disorders than those living with their own families
A 2001 study found that foster care children were more likely to have a mental health or substance abuse condition than other children receiving Medicaid
The families that have been in the system the longest can get all their kids on medication at a very young age and keep them on the medication even if it means having to relocate the family before the doctor can change his diagnoses. Many of these kids that are placed into foster care have special issues to deal with that other kids don’t have to like:
• blaming themselves and feeling guilty about removal from their birth parents
• wishing to return to birth parents even if they were abused by them
• feeling unwanted if awaiting adoption for a long time
• feeling helpless about multiple changes in foster parents over time
• having mixed emotions about attaching to foster parents
• feeling insecure and uncertain about their future
• reluctantly acknowledging positive feelings for foster parents
But I don’t think this would account for the statistic of medicating these kids at a rate of 60% or better.
The same problem exists in our welfare system also, there are approximately 5,800,000 people receiving welfare as of September and they receive similar incentives to medicate.
...
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Pitbull mom wrote:Responsible parents and doctors will always eliminate medical and behavioral issues before trying medication. That being said, I do believe there is some overdiagnosis going on today, as there always has been, and docs who are not specialists sometimes rush too quickly into medication, and some parents look for a "quick fix". Any parent who puts their child on medication needs to do a LOT of homework first.
I agree with you, pitbull, but there are some areas in which coming up with a diagnoses and medicating and keeping your child medicated is beneficial to the family financially. The type of medication your child is receiving can dictate how much you will receive from the state.
There are presently about 580,000 kids in foster care and the families are paid accordingly:
.........................Daily............................................................Monthly
Ages 00-12 .... $14.24/Day......................................................$427/Month per child,+ clothing allowance
Ages 13-18 .... $17.58/Day......................................................$527/Month per child,+ clothing allowance
If you can manage to get the children diagnosed with something, anything then your monthly income increases as follows: (Levels indicate the severity of the problem), Ritalin being a Level I maybe and more psychotic would increase you to Level II and Level III.
..............................Level I.......................Level II...................................Level III.............
Ages 00-12.............$5..................................$10..........................................$15.....................an additional $150 – 450/Month per child,+ clothing allowance
Ages 13-18.............$6..................................$11..........................................$16.....................an additional $180 – 480/Month per child,+ clothing allowance
Med. Fragile............$8..................................$13..........................................$18.....................an additional $240 – 540/Month per child, + clothing allowance
The Child Welfare League of America reports, "Approximately 60 percent of all children in out-of-home care have moderate to severe mental health problems [ ... ] Adolescents living with foster parents or in group homes have about four times the rate of serious psychiatric disorders than those living with their own families
A 2001 study found that foster care children were more likely to have a mental health or substance abuse condition than other children receiving Medicaid
The families that have been in the system the longest can get all their kids on medication at a very young age and keep them on the medication even if it means having to relocate the family before the doctor can change his diagnoses. Many of these kids that are placed into foster care have special issues to deal with that other kids don’t have to like:
• blaming themselves and feeling guilty about removal from their birth parents
• wishing to return to birth parents even if they were abused by them
• feeling unwanted if awaiting adoption for a long time
• feeling helpless about multiple changes in foster parents over time
• having mixed emotions about attaching to foster parents
• feeling insecure and uncertain about their future
• reluctantly acknowledging positive feelings for foster parents
But I don’t think this would account for the statistic of medicating these kids at a rate of 60% or better.
The same problem exists in our welfare system also, there are approximately 5,800,000 people receiving welfare as of September and they receive similar incentives to medicate.
...
I am uncharacteristically speechless....That is such a fucked up system, I don't even know where to start commenting.
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Now I'm starting to wonder just what TW's role in all of this is...
Eh, I'm still waiting to be truly surprised... time will tell.
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One of the challenges for psychiatrists and/ or psychologists is to constantly bridge the gap between diagnosis and insurance reimbursement. They also need to keep their thumb on the pulse of what the pharmaceutical industry is testing or presently has in clinical trials so they can reduce couch time (which insurance companies hate) and prescribe more drugs.
Ever since they did away with lobotomies in the 1950’s and came up with their first diagnosis of a “learning disorderâ€
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Did someone already mention OCD?
or wearing all black, I think that should be added, we had problems with that one in our family.
Mom? Dad? Is that you? (no really... dresses in black was put on my "reasons for admission" to Benchmark).
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How about being too smart? :rofl:
Yeah, "intellectualism" was part of my disease. Also, not swearing, words "bigger than marmalade", and not shaving my legs.
I was called "in my head" constantly. AAh... how do I adore thought stopping clichés. Better than out of my head.
But all jokes aside, people labeled with disorders such as ADHD and BPD and a lot of other things have somewhat different MRI scans than those labeled as normal. That seems to suggest those people are at least different but IMO isn't to say it's a disorder per-se. Perhaps a disorder is overdoing it. So-called ADHD kids do think differently. They think faster than the average population and often get bored in everyday class. They should be challenged, not "helped" especially against their will. I was put on several medications when I was younger and now am effectively dependent on them to function normally. People have told me "that's a good dependence" but the only real difference I see is that the drugs i'm doing are being sold to me by the government. It's not paranoia to distrust power, it's common sense.
They don't tell you that before you start taking it, or at least I wasn't told. Prozac and Aderall will permanantly alter brain chemistry... What does this do to kinds in the long term? Doctors don't really know for sure. Ritalin? Aderall?
Does that mean Aderall or Prozac are not effective? No. They do work, but the point is that to the pharmaceutical industry, i'm just another dollar and I feel like everybody should be fully informed if something has not been fully tested. I can't make a valid decision without valid information and without a valid decision there is no legitimate consent (not that it's needed to jam drugs down kids throat). In other words, I feel like "yeah... your shit works, but could you start telling people about the long term effects... there are other, natural alternatives that do work if you don't fuck their brains up too much first!".
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One of the challenges for psychiatrists and/ or psychologists is to constantly bridge the gap between diagnosis and insurance reimbursement. They also need to keep their thumb on the pulse of what the pharmaceutical industry is testing or presently has in clinical trials so they can reduce couch time (which insurance companies hate) and prescribe more drugs.
Ever since they did away with lobotomies in the 1950’s and came up with their first diagnosis of a “learning disorderâ€
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Wait. I read your post three times and I can't really believe it. I actually agree with your entire post! Is It really you, Who?
sorry, yeah its me, I guess I am having an off night.
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Autism 'Epidemic' Follows Increase in Special Education Funding, Shift in Diagnosis
Sunday, November 04, 2007
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A few decades ago, people probably would have said kids like Ryan Massey and Eddie Scheuplein were just odd. Or difficult.
Both boys are bright. But Ryan, 11, is hyper and prone to angry outbursts, sometimes trying to strangle another kid in his class who annoys him. Eddie, 7, has a strange habit of sticking his shirt in his mouth and sucking on it.
Both were diagnosed with a form of autism. And it's partly because of children like them that autism appears to be skyrocketing: In the latest estimate, as many as one in 150 children have some form of this disorder. Groups advocating more research money call autism "the fastest-growing developmental disability in the United States."
Indeed, doctors are concerned there are even more cases out there, unrecognized: The American Academy of Pediatrics last week stressed the importance of screening every kid — twice — for autism by age 2.
But many experts believe these unsociable behaviors were just about as common 30 or 40 years ago. The recent explosion of cases appears to be mostly caused by a surge in special education services for autistic children, and by a corresponding shift in what doctors call autism.
Autism has always been diagnosed by making judgments about a child's behavior; there are no blood or biologic tests. For decades, the diagnosis was given only to kids with severe language and social impairments and unusual, repetitious behaviors.
Many children with severe autism hit themselves or others, don't speak and don't make eye contact.
Blake Dees, a 19-year-old from Suwanee, Ga., falls into that group. For the past eight years, he has been in a day program with intense services, but he still doesn't talk, he's not toilet-trained, and he has a history of trying to eat anything — even broken glass.
But he's not a typical case.
In the 1990s, the autism umbrella expanded, and autism is now shorthand for a group of milder, related conditions, known as "autism spectrum disorders."
The spectrum includes Asperger's syndrome and something called PDD-NOS (for Pervasive Developmental Disorder-Not Otherwise Specified). Some support groups report more than half of their families fall into these categories, but there is no commonly accepted scientific breakdown.
Gradually, there have been changes in parents' own perception of autism, the autism services schools provide, and the care that insurers pay for, experts say.
Eddie, of Buford, Ga., was initially diagnosed with obsessive-compulsive disorder, attention deficit hyperactivity disorder and other conditions. But the services he got in school were not very helpful.
His mother, Michelle, said a diagnosis of autism brought occupational therapy and other, better services.
"I do have to admit I almost like the idea of having the autistic label, at least over the other labels, because there's more help out there for you," said Scheuplein.
"The truth is there's a powerful incentive for physicians and schools to classify children in a way that gets services," said Dr. Edwin Trevathan of the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
Many with Asperger's and PDD-NOS succeed in school and do not — at first glance — have much in common with children like Blake Dees.
At a recent gathering of families with Asperger's children in the Atlanta area, parents told almost comical stories about kids who frequently pick their noses, douse food in ketchup or wear the same shirt day after day.
Such a frank, humorous exchange was once a rarity. Doctors for many years believed in the "refrigerator mom" theory, which held that autism was the result of being raised by a cold, unloving mother. The theory became discredited, but was difficult to dislodge from the popular conscience.
Even in the early 1980s, some parents were more comfortable with a diagnosis of mental retardation than autism, said Trevathan, director of the CDC's National Center on Birth Defects and Developmental Disabilities.
Today, parents are more likely to cringe at a diagnosis of mental retardation, which is sometimes equated to a feeble-mindedness and may obscure a child's potential.
And increasingly, professionals frown at the term: The special education journal Mental Retardation this year changed its name to Intellectual & Developmental Disabilities.
The editor said that "mentally retarded" is becoming passe and demeaning, much like the terms idiot, imbecile and moron — once used by doctors to describe varying degrees of mental retardation.
In contrast, autism has become culturally acceptable — and a ticket to a larger range of school services and accommodations.
In 1990, Congress added the word "autism" as a separate disability category to a federal law that guarantees special education services, and Education Department regulations have included a separate definition of autism since 1992.
Before that, children with autism were counted under other disabling conditions, such as mental retardation, said Jim Bradshaw, an education department spokesman.
The Social Security Administration also broadened its definition of disability to include spectrum disorders, like Asperger's.
Something else changed: The development of new stimulants and other medicines may have encouraged doctors to make diagnoses with the idea of treating them with these drugs.
Perception of the size of the problem changed, too.
Fourteen years ago, only 1 in 10,000 children were diagnosed with it. Prevalence estimates gradually rose to the current government estimate of one in 150.
That increase has been mirrored in school districts. Gwinnett County Public Schools — Georgia's largest school system — had eight classrooms for teaching autistic youngsters 13 years ago; today there are 180.
Some researchers suggest that as autism spectrum diagnoses have gone up, diagnoses of mild mental retardation have fallen.
U.S. Department of Education data show that the number of students with autism rose steadily, from about 42,500 in 1997 to nearly 225,000 in 2006. Meanwhile, the number of students counted as mentally retarded declined from about 603,000 to about 523,000.
CDC scientists believe education numbers are misleading, because they reflect only how kids are categorized for services. They say there's no clear evidence doctors are substituting one diagnosis for the other.
Some parents believe environmental factors — ranging from a preservative in vaccines to contaminants in food or water — may be important contributors. (The last doses of early childhood vaccines containing the preservative thimerosal expired in 2002, although some children's flu shots still contain it.)
We're into the second, sometimes third, generation of people who have been overmedicated, particularly with antibiotics. The average diet for a kid now is atrocious-fried cheese, don't know what vegetables are, fruit is fruit snacks from a celophane package. Food cooked in microwaves. So many factors that damage the health and particularly the health of the digestive tract. If you don't digest your food, you slowly die. If the food you're eating isn't healthy to begin with, you die faster. I notice about the third or fourth day on antibiotics and kids get this 'fight or flight' look in their eyes. Like on a cellular level they know they are 'dying'. Followed by some form of yeast infection and/or another illness. If they 'have' to take antibiotics for a condition that can't be treated with a safer alternative, why aren't docs recommending probiotics to counteract the indiscriminant killing of gut flora caused by antibiotics? This shouldn't be discounted. I'll post an article on it.
Dr. Gary Goldstein, scientific adviser to the national advocacy group Autism Speaks, said the explanation for the rising autism prevalence is probably complex. Labeling and diagnosing probably play a role, as do genetics, but he believes the increase surpasses those two explanations.
"I'm seeing more children with autism than I ever would have expected to see," said Goldstein, who is chief executive of the Kennedy Krieger Institute, a treatment center for pediatric developmental disabilities in Baltimore.
Autism Speaks budgets more than $4 million each year to research the causes of autism, and about 90 percent of that has gone to genetics research. But organization officials recently have been talking about changing that mix, and spending as much as 50 percent of that money on potential environmental triggers, Goldstein said.
About time. They need to compare/contrast the US with other countries/societies (Quakers) that haven't experienced an increase. What's different?
Whether it's because of genes or the environment (or both), autism has hit the Massey family hard. Chuck and Julia Massey, of Dacula, Ga., have three sons with Asperger's.
The youngest, Ryan, was first diagnosed after he was slow to develop speaking ability. His brothers — Trevor, 14, and Morgan, 16 — had learning and behavior problems and were later diagnosed with Asperger's, too.
All got special education services and were treated with medications. Morgan has improved, or matured, or both, and is now a social kid in mainstream classes at a Gwinnett County high school. Trevor seems to be making the same transition, his mother said.
Ryan is the most extreme. He still has uncontrollable tantrums and must attend an Asperger's-only sixth-grade classroom that teaches social skills along with traditional subjects.
In a recent interview at the family's home, Ryan acknowledged he still has anger control issues. One of the three other students in his class is particularly irritating. Ryan said the way he reacts is by "grabbing his throat."
But on this night, Ryan was calm. He described himself as happy, and paced the room telling jokes, like a nervous stand-up comedian. ("Why didn't the skeleton go to the party? He didn't have the guts," he said, eyes fixed on his audience.)
Having three Asperger's boys under one roof has at times been very intense, Massey said, noting a replaced dining room window.
Ryan acknowledged it's been educational living in a house full of Asperger's kids. Asked to name something he's learned from his brothers, he replied, "Swears."
People dealing with Autistic kids need to read Son Rise by Barry Kauffman. After finding no hope or help for their son, the Kauffman's spent every moment creating a safe and secure environment for their son which eventually lead to him gaining enough trust to come out of his protective shell. He went on to become an honor student- this boy who doctors said there was no hope for.
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http://www.healing-arts.org/children/an ... tm#wethink (http://www.healing-arts.org/children/antifungal.htm#wethink)
Anti-fungal Treatment
We know that poor bowel ecology - common in autistic children - often promotes the overgrowth of fungi and other microbes. These microbes can be involved in autism, as fungal metabolites are often found in the urine of autistic children.
Many children with autism respond to anti-fungal treatment, and score high for yeast and anaerobic bacteria on such tests as the Comprehensive Digestive Stool Analysis test, available at the Great Plains Laboratory or Great Smokies Laboratory.
We also know that fungi can make hallucinogenic substances. LSD, for instance, is derived from ergot, and psilocybin from mushrooms. The theory that fungi are producing the compounds which are creating autistic behavior is not so far-fetched. Desmorphin, discussed earlier, is a hallucinogenic substance occurring more frequently among autistic children.
There is evidence that a form of yeast, candida albicans, may cause autism and may exacerbate many behavior and health problems in autistic individuals, especially those with late-onset autism.
Candida or Yeast and Autism:
Some clinicians believe that autistic symptoms are made worse by the overgrowth of Candida albicans, a yeast-like fungus present everywhere. Overgrowth is made possible by a dysfunctional immune system. A healthy immune system would keep the Candida in check.
The "leaky gut" theory of autism implies that withdrawing gut allergens and treating yeast overgrowth, should help the GI tract to return toward normal and autistic symptoms improve.
Many children afflicted with autism have had frequent ear infections as young children and have taken large amounts of antibiotics. These are thought to exaggerate the yeast problem. Other possible contributors to Candida overgrowth are hormonal treatments; immunosuppresant drug therapy; exposure to herpes, chicken pox, or other "chronic" viruses; or exposure to chemicals that might upset the immune system. There is an increased probability, that a "general" environmental factor affecting our immune systems (i.e. ozone layer depletion, "toxic" chemicals, etc.) may be operative, affecting many children and adults.
Because it is impractical to expect anyone to stay on a totally yeast-free diet, ongoing medication, anti-fungal supplements, and avoidance of sugars are often used to control Candida. Even with the use of anti-fungal drugs, it is still important to limit sugar, because yeast grows 200 times faster in the presence of sugar.
If a potent anti-fungal such as Diflucan or Nizoral is used, it can be assumed that within 1 - 2 months most all of the yeast will die off. When Nizoral or Diflucan is used, some experts say that within 7- 12 days patients can experience "die off" symptoms. This consists of either a "sensitization" reaction to "products" released when the yeast is killed, or the release of "formaldehyde" like products or other potentially toxic derivatives during yeast death, that can contribute to negative symptoms in a patient, including hyperactivity, gastrointestinal distress, and irritability. Die-off usually lasts about 7-14 days and after that time the change in the child is reported as sometimes dramatic. If the die-off does not end in 14 - 17 days, the anti-fungal medication is usually changed.
If the treatment is successful for autistic children, usually eye-contact improves and the child seems more aware and less"foggy." Anecdotal reports claim that the frequency of inappropriate noises, teeth grinding, biting, hitting, hyperactivity, and aggressive behavior decreases. The child acts less silly and shows less inappropriate laughter.
The antifungals, Nizoral and Diflucan, are usually monitored with liver function tests drawn every 1-3 months, since these drugs can cause liver damage. Some physicians stop pharmacological antifungals at six months because of postulated effects on the adrenocortical axis. Then, some will switch to Amphotericin B, which has recently been licensed as an oral liquid in the United States, and can be legally compounded by pharmacies in the U.S.
If the antifungal therapy is stopped, and the body's immune system is still sub-optimal, the yeast is thought likely to return. Many believe treatment must be continued for 4 - 6 months to maintain gains obtained from yeast elimination. Stopping treatment after only one month is thought to allow yeast to return in perhaps even more resistant forms.
Probiotics for keeping healthy intestinal flora include:
•Lactobacillus acidophilus GG (Culturelle), made by Vitamin Research Products; Phone: 1- 800- 877-2447
More About Candida albicans:
Candida albicans belongs to the yeast family and is a single-cell fungus. This form of yeast is located in various parts of the body including the digestive tract. Generally speaking, benign microbes limit the amount of yeast in the intestinal tract, and thus, keep the yeast under control. However, exposure to antibiotics, especially repeated exposure, can destroy these microbes. This can result in an overgrowth of candida albicans. When the yeast multiplies, it releases toxins in the body; and these toxins are known to impair the central nervous system and the immune system.
Some of the behavior problems which have been linked to an overgrowth of candida albicans include: confusion, hyperactivity, short attention span, lethargy, irritability, and aggression. Health problems can include: headaches, stomachaches, constipation, gas pains, fatigue, and depression. These problems are often worse during damp and/or muggy days and in moldy places. Additionally, exposure to perfumes and insecticides can worsen the condition.
Dr. William Shaw has been conducting important research on yeast and its effects on autistic individuals. He recently discovered unusual microbial metabolites in the urine of autistic children who responded remarkably well to anti-fungal treatments. Dr. Shaw and his colleagues observed a decrease in urinary organic acids as well as decreases in hyperactivity and self-stimulatory, stereotyped behavior; and increases in eye contact, vocalization, and concentration.
There are many safe methods to treat yeast overgrowth, such as taking nutritional supplements which replenish the intestinal tract with 'good' microbes (e.g., acidophilus) and/or taking anti-fungal medications (e.g., Nystatin, Ketoconosal, Diflucan). It is also recommended that the person be placed on a special diet, low in sugar and other foods on which yeasts thrive. Interestingly, if the candida albicans is causing health and behavior problems, a person will often become quite ill for a few days after receiving a treatment to kill the excess yeast. The yeast is destroyed and the debris is circulated through the body until it is excreted. Thus, a person who displays negative behaviors soon after receiving treatment for candida albicans (the Herxheimer reaction) is likely to have a good prognosis.
Please note: treatment for candida albicans infrequently results in a cure for autism. However, if the person is suffering from this problem, his/her health and behavior should improve following the therapy.
(Excerpted from: The Candida Yeast-Autism Connection, written by Stephen M. Edelson, Ph.D. at the Center for the Study of Autism, Salem, Oregon)
There are 30 or 40 strains of candida, and some are very resistant to treatment. Nystatin, quite possibly the safe prescription drug on the market, will work on the weakest candida strains. Ketoconosal (Nizerol) is a stronger drug, but much more likely to have adverse side effects. Diet is at least as important as drugs in treating candida. There are also non-prescription substances that have anti-candida effects, such as acidophilus, caprylic acid, garlic oil, colloidal silver, and other readily available substances, some of which have been used to treat candida for hundreds of years.
The Autism Research Institute distributes an information packet on candida (yeast) and autism: Candida (Yeast) and Autism: Basic information and questionnaire for parents whose child might have yeast-caused (antibiotic effect) autism.
Candida-caused autism?:
"Candida albicans is a yeast-like fungus which inhabits almost all humans. It lives on the moist dark mucous membranes which line the mouth, vagina and intestinal tract. Ordinarily it exists only in small colonies, prevented from growing too rapidly by the human host's immune system, and by competition from other microorganisms in and on the body's mucous membranes. When something happens to upset this delicate natural balance, candida can grow rapidly and aggressively, causing many unpleasant symptoms to the host. Some of the symptoms are widely known and acknowledged. Vaginal yeast infections, primarily caused by candida, present the most common case in point. Thrush, the white yeast infection of the mouth and tongue which is common in infants, is another well-known example of candida overgrowth.
In recent years a minority of physicians have begun to try to persuade their colleagues, and the public, that candida may present consequences far more devastating to human well-being than vaginitis and thrush. They cite Japanese studies showing that candida is able to produce toxins which cause severe long-term disruption of the immune system and may also attack the brain. In extreme cases, they claim, severe disorders, totally resistant to conventional treatment, can occur as a result of candidiasis. These include depression, schizophrenia and, in some cases, autism.
It is much too early to reach a firm conclusion, but, based on the weight of the information gathered to date, it seems to me highly probable that a small, but significant, proportion of children diagnosed as autistic are in fact victims of a severe candida infection. I further believe that if the candida infection were successfully treated in these few cases - much easier said than done - the symptoms of autism would show dramatic improvement.
When the Los Angeles Times published a long, syndicated article about [ a child whose autistic behavior and symptoms were greatly reduced by anti-fungal treatment] in 1983, the Mayos, and the Institute for Child Behavior Research, which was mentioned in the article, began receiving letters and phone calls from parents of autistic children throughout the country. It seems that there are many autistic children whose problems started soon after long-term antibiotic therapy, or whose mothers had chronic yeast infections which they had passed along to the infants. How many of these might in fact be caused by candidiasis? No one knows.
William G. Crook, the well-known pediatric allergist of Knoxville, Tennessee, has mentioned several similar cases in his book The Yeast Connection and in his lectures. Cecil Bradley (one of Duffy Mayo's physicians) recently told me that he has seen eight "autistic" children who respond favorably to anti-candida drugs and diet treatment.
ICBR has been gathering information on the possible link between autism and candida since 1966, when our first research assistant, Dale Meyer, noticed that thrush seemed to be mentioned unusually often in the letters and questionnaires sent to us by parents. I am fairly well convinced that there is a connection and that perhaps 5% to 10% of autistic children - those given many courses of antibiotics, or born with thrush or afflicted with thrush soon after birth - will improve when properly treated for candida. However, there is no consensus among physicians on the candida/autism linkage.
Judging from contacts with several hundred parents over the past few years, only about one physician in 20 or 30 will give serious consideration to the possibility that treating candida may alleviate the symptoms of autism. Most physicians regard concern with candida as just another fad, soon to be forgotten. I wish they were right, but I don't think they are."
Bernard Rimland, Ph.D.
Autism Research
4182 Adams Avenue
San Diego, CA 92116
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The 2 previous posts by Deb are both great articles, and any parent with a child dxd with any ASD should read these and other articles about diet, and try the GFCF diet before trying medication. Most psychiatrists will recommend diet changes prior to trying medication, although many docs don't buy into the GFCF diet, as it has mixed results, but it's certainly worth trying. The debate about thimerosal or mercury being at the root cause of the increasing numbers of ASDs has been going on for years. The current research, and the generation of kids getting vaccines without thimerosal should provide some much needed answers. I discovered that my son had a severe behavioral reaction to red dye, which is found in many foods, but the GFCF diet provided no results for us. I have seen other kids who have definately benefited.
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I wonder if I can culture this stuff and get high with it?
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Saw Jenny McCarthy on CNN and apparently, she has a new book coming out soon about her success finding alternative treatements for her son who was dx autistic. She is strongly suspicious of childhood vaccines and recommended parents check out this org for further information about alternatives.
http://www.talkaboutcuringautism.org/ar ... native.htm (http://www.talkaboutcuringautism.org/articles/treating-autism-alternative.htm)
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So if you have the right yeast or fungus growing in your shit, it can make you trip like mushrooms or acid? I'm not saying I'm skeptical, well maybe a little, but what I really want to know is why does tripping make kids autistic? I never saw anyone act autistic on shrooms or blotter -- mostly just laughed their asses off and had a few interesting perceptual disturbances.
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Desmorphin, discussed earlier, is a hallucinogenic substance occurring more frequently among autistic children.
Dr. Friedman contrasted the samples of normal children with autistic children. The amount and volume of particles in the autistic children was an order of magnitude more in volume and in number of them. Some of these particles include Casomorphine, A-Glaidin, Desmorphin, Deltophin II, Morphine modulating peptide, Novel Autism Peptide I, and Novel Autism Peptide III. These peptides have interaction with other neuro-peptides. Desmorphin is only found in Autistic Children and on the backs of non-captive poison dart frogs. These opioid-like molecules are thought to cause the symptoms of autism.
You can read more about Opiod Excess Theory in a previous article
http://www.healing-arts.org/index2.htm (http://www.healing-arts.org/index2.htm)
As for overgrowth of yeast, fungi, molds-there are many great sites, just google. Too many rx drugs and a diet based on corn syrup is reeking havoc. People just need to connect the dots.
http://www.alternativementalhealth.com/ ... andida.htm (http://www.alternativementalhealth.com/articles/candida.htm)
Candida and Mental Health
http://www.snyderhealth.com/candida.htm (http://www.snyderhealth.com/candida.htm)
In the First Stage of Candida, the mucous membrane areas of the body may be infected. These include the mouth, vagina, nose, and respiratory System. Besides vaginal infections, severe P.M.S., urinary tract infections, body rashes, acne, and oral thrush, ALLERGIES to foods, dust, molds, fungus, yeast, inhalants, and chemicals are the most common symptoms. Each day more people seem to be allergic to everything in their environment. Repeated bouts of bronchitis, sinusitis, tonsillitis, and strep or staph infections may be typical. Mononucleosis and pneumonia may also be noted. It is easy to perceive that each of these successive illnesses requires more and more antibiotics, which may open the door for further Candida overgrowth. Talk about a vicious circle!
The Second Stage of Candida may involve more generalized reactions such as PAIN, HEADACHES (including MIGRAINE), EXTREME FATIGUE, PSORIASIS, INFECTIONS OF THE NAILS, MUSCLE ACHES, JOINT PAINS, AND ARTHRITIS. Naturally, drug after drug is usually taken in hopes of alleviating these miserable conditions. In most cases, the SYMPTOMS alone are being treated--while the CAUSE (candida overgrowth) may be literally being PROMOTED at the same time!
The Third Stage of Candida may involve MENTAL and BEHAVIORAL responses: inability to concentrate, not being able to read or follow a television program or carry on a hobby, serious forgetfulness, memory loss, mental confusion, not being able to think of the words to say something, switching around of words and letters when trying to speak and/or write something, loss of previous skills (such as how-to-type or how-to-play-the-piano, etc.) These frightening problems may often lead to "HOPELESS CRYING" SPELLS, SEVERE DEPRESSION, SLEEP DISORDERS (may include insomnia, confusion dreams, nightmares, apnea, and not feeling rested or restored after sleep), IRRATIONAL THOUGHTS, UNUSUAL FEARS, PHOBIAS, PANIC/ANXIETY ATTACKS, MUSCLE TWITCHING, IRRITABILITY, VIOLENCE, AGGRESSIVE BEHAVIOR, and even EPILEPTIC SEIZURES and THOUGHTS OF DEATH OR SUICIDE. Sometimes people with these symptoms are labeled "mentally ill", thought to be suffering from manic-depressive psychosis or schizophrenia. These desperately sick patients are sometimes turned over to the care of a psychiatrist or hospitalized in a mental institution. They may be given antidepressants, tranquilizers, lithium, etc. to lighten the mental symptoms. But the cause may be overlooked and the patient is not cured on a long-term basis.
A person in the Fourth Stage of Candida may experience a virtual SHUTDOWN OF VARIOUS ORGAN SYSTEMS of the body. For example, the adrenal glands may stop functioning when the endocrine system fails, or the digestive system may stop, producing vomiting or severe constipation. The extreme fatigue may escalate into TOTAL MUSCLE WEAKNESS, such as the neck muscles no longer being able to hold up the head. The body rashes may escalate into HIVES or BOILS. The circulatory system may be swamped with so much yeast that the capillaries are clogged, causing HIGH BLOOD PRESSURE, NUMBNESS OF EXTREMITIES, and EASY BRUISING. The person may run a low-grade fever, but the hands and feet will often be very cold. The HEART may develop TACHYCARDIA (palpitations, irregular beats, mitral valve problems or heart murmur). In the respiratory system, the alveoli (air sacs) of the lungs may be packed with yeast so that the person cannot get adequate breath for speaking, singing, or exercise; there may be a FEELING OF SUFFOCATION, which may lead to HYPERVENTILATION and PANIC. The complete failure of the immune system leaves the body defenseless against all enemy bacteria, viruses, and disease conditions--including cancer.
The Fifth Stage of Candida seems inevitable at this point: rampant systemic Candidiasis is 100% fatal unless it is diagnosed early enough to kill the yeast overgrowth and regenerate the immune system.
http://www.know-the-cause.com/ (http://www.know-the-cause.com/)
In September 1999, Johns Hopkins medical researchers confirmed that virtually all chronic sinus infections were due to fungus. Not all findiings are that solid. As a matter of fact, few are. Rather, scientists seem confused and startled at their own discoveries with regard to fungus. Fungus makes poisonous byproducts called mycotoxins. Antibiotics are one class of mycotoxins. Without this knowledge, however, many questions are raised when researchers stumble onto this seemingly elementary fact. Recently, researchers have discovered that antibiotics are contributing to everything from 2nd heart attacks to breast cancer. It is our hope that someday when discoveries like these are made, logic will supercede confusion.
Another important aspect is acidosis
http://www.snyderhealth.com/acid.htm (http://www.snyderhealth.com/acid.htm)
So, if one has Acidosis (the standard american diet SAD is highly acidic) and an overgrowth of yeast/fungi/mold, mental/emotional symptoms can manifest.
Again, with all this information available, with science to support it, why aren't kids given probiotics during/after antibiotics? Why aren't doctors recommending low/no sugar diets for kids? ...........it's not profitable.
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Borderline Personality Disorder has for a long time been known among Psyciatrists and Therapists as a "red flag" diagnosis. When the doc opens your records and BPD is there it means get rid of this patient, or "pain in the ass. My Therapist and I discussed this.
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Desmorphin, discussed earlier, is a hallucinogenic substance occurring more frequently among autistic children.
Dr. Friedman contrasted the samples of normal children with autistic children. The amount and volume of particles in the autistic children was an order of magnitude more in volume and in number of them. Some of these particles include Casomorphine, A-Glaidin, Desmorphin, Deltophin II, Morphine modulating peptide, Novel Autism Peptide I, and Novel Autism Peptide III. These peptides have interaction with other neuro-peptides. Desmorphin is only found in Autistic Children and on the backs of non-captive poison dart frogs. These opioid-like molecules are thought to cause the symptoms of autism.
You can read more about Opiod Excess Theory in a previous article
http://www.healing-arts.org/index2.htm (http://www.healing-arts.org/index2.htm)
As for overgrowth of yeast, fungi, molds-there are many great sites, just google. Too many rx drugs and a diet based on corn syrup is reeking havoc. People just need to connect the dots.
http://www.alternativementalhealth.com/ ... andida.htm (http://www.alternativementalhealth.com/articles/candida.htm)
Candida and Mental Health
http://www.snyderhealth.com/candida.htm (http://www.snyderhealth.com/candida.htm)
In the First Stage of Candida, the mucous membrane areas of the body may be infected. These include the mouth, vagina, nose, and respiratory System. Besides vaginal infections, severe P.M.S., urinary tract infections, body rashes, acne, and oral thrush, ALLERGIES to foods, dust, molds, fungus, yeast, inhalants, and chemicals are the most common symptoms. Each day more people seem to be allergic to everything in their environment. Repeated bouts of bronchitis, sinusitis, tonsillitis, and strep or staph infections may be typical. Mononucleosis and pneumonia may also be noted. It is easy to perceive that each of these successive illnesses requires more and more antibiotics, which may open the door for further Candida overgrowth. Talk about a vicious circle!
The Second Stage of Candida may involve more generalized reactions such as PAIN, HEADACHES (including MIGRAINE), EXTREME FATIGUE, PSORIASIS, INFECTIONS OF THE NAILS, MUSCLE ACHES, JOINT PAINS, AND ARTHRITIS. Naturally, drug after drug is usually taken in hopes of alleviating these miserable conditions. In most cases, the SYMPTOMS alone are being treated--while the CAUSE (candida overgrowth) may be literally being PROMOTED at the same time!
The Third Stage of Candida may involve MENTAL and BEHAVIORAL responses: inability to concentrate, not being able to read or follow a television program or carry on a hobby, serious forgetfulness, memory loss, mental confusion, not being able to think of the words to say something, switching around of words and letters when trying to speak and/or write something, loss of previous skills (such as how-to-type or how-to-play-the-piano, etc.) These frightening problems may often lead to "HOPELESS CRYING" SPELLS, SEVERE DEPRESSION, SLEEP DISORDERS (may include insomnia, confusion dreams, nightmares, apnea, and not feeling rested or restored after sleep), IRRATIONAL THOUGHTS, UNUSUAL FEARS, PHOBIAS, PANIC/ANXIETY ATTACKS, MUSCLE TWITCHING, IRRITABILITY, VIOLENCE, AGGRESSIVE BEHAVIOR, and even EPILEPTIC SEIZURES and THOUGHTS OF DEATH OR SUICIDE. Sometimes people with these symptoms are labeled "mentally ill", thought to be suffering from manic-depressive psychosis or schizophrenia. These desperately sick patients are sometimes turned over to the care of a psychiatrist or hospitalized in a mental institution. They may be given antidepressants, tranquilizers, lithium, etc. to lighten the mental symptoms. But the cause may be overlooked and the patient is not cured on a long-term basis.
A person in the Fourth Stage of Candida may experience a virtual SHUTDOWN OF VARIOUS ORGAN SYSTEMS of the body. For example, the adrenal glands may stop functioning when the endocrine system fails, or the digestive system may stop, producing vomiting or severe constipation. The extreme fatigue may escalate into TOTAL MUSCLE WEAKNESS, such as the neck muscles no longer being able to hold up the head. The body rashes may escalate into HIVES or BOILS. The circulatory system may be swamped with so much yeast that the capillaries are clogged, causing HIGH BLOOD PRESSURE, NUMBNESS OF EXTREMITIES, and EASY BRUISING. The person may run a low-grade fever, but the hands and feet will often be very cold. The HEART may develop TACHYCARDIA (palpitations, irregular beats, mitral valve problems or heart murmur). In the respiratory system, the alveoli (air sacs) of the lungs may be packed with yeast so that the person cannot get adequate breath for speaking, singing, or exercise; there may be a FEELING OF SUFFOCATION, which may lead to HYPERVENTILATION and PANIC. The complete failure of the immune system leaves the body defenseless against all enemy bacteria, viruses, and disease conditions--including cancer.
The Fifth Stage of Candida seems inevitable at this point: rampant systemic Candidiasis is 100% fatal unless it is diagnosed early enough to kill the yeast overgrowth and regenerate the immune system.
http://www.know-the-cause.com/ (http://www.know-the-cause.com/)
In September 1999, Johns Hopkins medical researchers confirmed that virtually all chronic sinus infections were due to fungus. Not all findiings are that solid. As a matter of fact, few are. Rather, scientists seem confused and startled at their own discoveries with regard to fungus. Fungus makes poisonous byproducts called mycotoxins. Antibiotics are one class of mycotoxins. Without this knowledge, however, many questions are raised when researchers stumble onto this seemingly elementary fact. Recently, researchers have discovered that antibiotics are contributing to everything from 2nd heart attacks to breast cancer. It is our hope that someday when discoveries like these are made, logic will supercede confusion.
Another important aspect is acidosis
http://www.snyderhealth.com/acid.htm (http://www.snyderhealth.com/acid.htm)
So, if one has Acidosis (the standard american diet SAD is highly acidic) and an overgrowth of yeast/fungi/mold, mental/emotional symptoms can manifest.
Again, with all this information available, with science to support it, why aren't kids given probiotics during/after antibiotics? Why aren't doctors recommending low/no sugar diets for kids? ...........it's not profitable.
And a LOT of doctors are recommending these things. why aren't people choosing more qualified physcians?
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Did someone already mention OCD?
or wearing all black, I think that should be added, we had problems with that one in our family.
Mom? Dad? Is that you? (no really... dresses in black was put on my "reasons for admission" to Benchmark).
Really?
Actually I hear you. :P
from past experiencse (and again I didn't have it as hard as my girlio did) as a parent I had a lot questions about clothing and hair color. As if being different was a disease.
WTF. That was the least of the issues.
the real problem was getting the ed con/TBS ball started.
stay positive, you can do this.
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Huh? What the fuck is the last poster talking about? Put down the bottle, quit jamming crystal meth up your ass, and come back later when you can string together a coherent train of thought.
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Huh? What the fuck is the last poster talking about? Put down the bottle, quit jamming crystal meth up your ass, and come back later when you can string together a coherent train of thought.
Parents. Welcome to Fornits TTI forum... Try to have a stomach for a little while until the forum anon posters feel you out(though some might always hate parents).
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TheWho said -
One of the challenges for psychiatrists and/ or psychologists is to constantly bridge the gap between diagnosis and insurance reimbursement. They also need to keep their thumb on the pulse of what the pharmaceutical industry is testing or presently has in clinical trials so they can reduce couch time (which insurance companies hate) and prescribe more drugs.
First, any doctor gets paid for procedures, not diagnosis - so you are 100% wrong there. psychiatrists never get reimbursed for a diagnosis or a perscription. they are only paid by office visit, whether med management, psychotherapy - whatever.
It's laughable you would spread this false information. In fact, the large percentage of psychiatrists in private practice no longer take insurance because they are paid a pittance by insurance corporations. Get your facts straight before you post.
A cardiologist may diagnose you with heart failure, but they don't get paid for that. They get paid for the myraid of tests which are reimbursable.
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Nowhere wrote:
First, any doctor gets paid for procedures, not diagnosis - so you are 100% wrong there. psychiatrists never get reimbursed for a diagnosis or a perscription. they are only paid by office visit, whether med management, psychotherapy - whatever.
Let me simplify: Pretty much anyone can get reimbursed from their insurance company for an initial visit to a doctor’s office (per visit). But the ball is in the doctor’s lap to place a label or “Diagnosesâ€
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TheWho -
FYI - I hope you stand by what you post - the APA will be hearing about the BS you have posted - if you want to talk about harmful info (porn blah blah) on fornits, then I hope you'll be accountable for the inflammatory things you are posting. Because you are liable for the false information you spread.
As a precaution, I have copy and pasted your post, so you can't edit it. Two can play at this game, you cry foul when someone posts something that doesn't agree with you, but have no problem doing the same exact thing. Posting incorrect and misleading info. You also play the litgious card. So, what you post can and will be heald against you.
Nowhere wrote: Quote:
First, any doctor gets paid for procedures, not diagnosis - so you are 100% wrong there. psychiatrists never get reimbursed for a diagnosis or a perscription. they are only paid by office visit, whether med management, psychotherapy - whatever.
Let me simplify: Pretty much anyone can get reimbursed from their insurance company for an initial visit to a doctor’s office (per visit). But the ball is in the doctor’s lap to place a label or “Diagnosesâ€
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Also the doctor is given monetary incentives to prescribe competing brands of medication, Zoloft vs Prozac for example.
Really? How? You are talking out of your ass now and have no clue how drug reps and physicians interact.
explain, so you can continue to dig your own hole.
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TheWho said
Virtually all private practice doctors accept insurance of some type.
Virtually all? hahahaha - you have no clue, pal - no clue. Unless you have some numbers - then just keep digging.
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Ummmm..... I think I'm missing something.
Now clearly I don't know as much about the American medical system as most of you do, but I had previously understood most of what theWho has posted to be true. More than that, I don't understand why guest is so upset about what he's posted. If indeed he's wrong, I really don't get why there is anything to be pissed off about. How could it possibly serve his motives to mislead about this?
:question: :question: :question: :question: :question:
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The finer distinction is there are differences between psychiatry/current hmo system/child gulags.
Spreading false info is OK, as long as kids gets screwed and/or it serves TheWho's purposes.
Fornits has got to wake up to this guy, who is basically a wolf in sheeps clothing. He wins you over with false info and then starts ringing the bells of programs.
Seems like alot of cognitive dissonance to me. & alot of BS.
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But what specifically are you claiming is incorrect? I just don't understand. I for one don't know any different...
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First check your PM's.
Second, basically everything TheWho has posted in totally false.
Doctors do not get money for prescribing one thing over another. Expensive drug dinners (which only the ethically challenged go to) and receiving pens is not a financial incentive as he suggests.
It is false & basically he is insinuating that doctors are being bribed by pharm companies.
Second, he is saying that private practice docs get paid by insurance. False, again.
Third, he is saying that doc's get paid for diagnosing people, that there is an financial gain to diagnose. Again, false and libelous.
I'm just wondering TheWho - how can you speak so confidently about this, where the hell do you get your info !!!??!!
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Doctors do not get money for prescribing one thing over another. Expensive drug dinners (which only the ethically challenged go to) and receiving pens is not a financial incentive as he suggests. It is false & basically he is insinuating that doctors are being bribed by pharm companies.
I am not insinuating, I have stated that there are incentives to prescribe one competing medication over another. You may call it bribes if you like. In post soviet eastern bloc countries they call it "Gifts" so you choose.
Second, he is saying that private practice docs get paid by insurance. False, again.
Look , My daughter saw several therapists who were in private practice. On our plan, at the time, we were covered for 12 visits per year (as I recall) and when they were exhausted we paid out of pocket. Ask someone else or call a therapist if you doubt this info.
Third, he is saying that doc's get paid for diagnosing people, that there is an financial gain to diagnose. Again, false and libelous.
No, I said the doctor needs to diagnose a patient and label them into a category that is acceptable to their insurance company in order to get paid for ongoing visits or medication. If the doctor submits “Afraid of mother-in-lawâ€
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This is an open forum, you are free to post a link which proves or supports your position. I am posting from first hand experience and second hand knowledge, as my brother-in-law is in private practice.
Really, your brother-in-law is a private practice pdoc?
A yes or no will suffice.
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I am not insinuating, I have stated that there are incentives to prescribe one competing medication over another. You may call it bribes if you like. In post soviet eastern bloc countries they call it "Gifts" so you choose.
I call total bullshit. Some (very few) docs do go to the expensive dinners. Pdocs are discouraged within the APA etc from accepting anything from anyone.
Look , My daughter saw several therapists who were in private practice.
Therapists are not psychiatrists. Do you even know the finer distinction between someone who has an MSW versus someone who has an MD?
Thought not.
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This is an open forum, you are free to post a link which proves or supports your position. I am posting from first hand experience and second hand knowledge, as my brother-in-law is in private practice.
Really, your brother-in-law is a private practice pdoc?
A yes or no will suffice.
Yes
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I doubt it - we are talking about pdoc's and you bring up your daughter's therapists - it's comparing apples to oranges.
Pay attention, TW.
You are confusing a complicated argument, try to keep up.
So, you're *first-hand info* about your daughter's therapist doesn't count here. Try again.
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APA's position on drug rep dinner's -
Section 5–L
Question: It seems inappropriate for me to attend a presentation by a
drug company at a nice hotel with a free dinner buffet and then be paid
$100. Do you agree?
Answer: Yes we do and so does the AMA. Acceptable would be a modest
meal and no fee plus a squinty-eyed attitude toward what is presented.
See Opinion 8.061, AMA Council Opinions, 2000–2001. (April 1990)
I'm sure your brother-in-law has no clue about ethics guidelines, either - if you are spouting all this crap - if he's even a psychiatrist, as in an MD.
There are loads of info out there about ethics. You know, TheWho, as in a conscience - something you probably know nothing about.
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I doubt it - we are talking about pdoc's and you bring up your daughter's therapists - it's comparing apples to oranges.
Pay attention, TW.
You are confusing a complicated argument, try to keep up.
So, you're *first-hand info* about your daughter's therapist doesn't count here. Try again.
You are welcome to back up your position anytime. So far you havent shown us anything. Do you have a link? Knowledge of the profession? You dont support any of your arguments
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TheWho anonymously said
You are welcome to back up your position anytime. So far you havent shown us anything. Do you have a link? Knowledge of the profession? You dont support any of your arguments
I said -
APA's position on drug rep dinner's -
Quote:
Section 5–L
Question: It seems inappropriate for me to attend a presentation by a
drug company at a nice hotel with a free dinner buffet and then be paid
$100. Do you agree?
Answer: Yes we do and so does the AMA. Acceptable would be a modest
meal and no fee plus a squinty-eyed attitude toward what is presented.
See Opinion 8.061, AMA Council Opinions, 2000–2001. (April 1990)
I just did - can you back up your claims? - I thought not.
Until then, this discussion is over.
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http://pn.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/40/16/3 (http://pn.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/40/16/3)
I highlighted the pertinent facts from the APA president - so ThePoo - put up or shut up.
From the President
Big Pharma and American Psychiatry: The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly
Steven S. Sharfstein, M.D.
APA's annual meeting is one of the largest medical meetings in the United States and the largest psychiatric meeting in the world. There is something for everyone at our wonderful meeting, but many have commented to me on the extraordinary presence of the pharmaceutical industry throughout the scientific programs and on the exhibit floor.
The U.S. pharmaceutical industry is one of the most profitable industries in the history of the world, averaging a return of 17 percent on revenue over the last quarter century. Drug costs have been the most rapidly rising element in health care spending in recent years. Antidepressant medications rank third in pharmaceutical sales worldwide, with $13.4 billion in sales last year alone. This represents 4.2 percent of all pharmaceutical sales globally. Antipsychotic medications generated $6.5 billion in revenue.
When the profit motive and human good are aligned, it is a "win-win" situation. Pharmaceutical companies have developed and brought to market medications that have transformed the lives of millions of psychiatric patients. The proven effectiveness of antidepressant, mood-stabilizing, and antipsychotic medications has helped sensitize the public to the reality of mental illness and taught them that treatment works. In this way, Big Pharma has helped reduce stigma associated with psychiatric treatment and with psychiatrists. My comments that follow on the pharmaceutical industry and its relationship to psychiatry bear this in mind.
The interests of Big Pharma and psychiatry, however, are often not aligned. The practice of psychiatry and the pharmaceutical industry have different goals and abide by different ethics. Big Pharma is a business, governed by the motive of selling products and making money. The profession of psychiatry aims to provide the highest quality of psychiatric care to persons who suffer from psychiatric conditions. There is widespread concern of the over-medicalization of mental disorders and the overuse of medications. Financial incentives and managed care have contributed to the notion of a "quick fix" by taking a pill and reducing the emphasis on psychotherapy and psychosocial treatments. There is much evidence that there is less psychotherapy provided by psychiatrists than 10 years ago. This is true despite the strong evidence base that many psychotherapies are effective used alone or in combination with medications.
In my last column, I shared with you my experience, and APA's, in responding to the antipsychiatry remarks that Tom Cruise made earlier this summer as he publicized his new movie in a succession of media interviews. One of the charges against psychiatry that was discussed in the resultant media coverage is that many patients are being prescribed the wrong drugs or drugs they don't need. These charges are true, but it is not psychiatry's fault—it is the fault of the broken health care system that the United States appears to be willing to endure. As we address these Big Pharma issues, we must examine the fact that as a profession, we have allowed the biopsychosocial model to become the bio-bio-bio model. In a time of economic constraint, a "pill and an appointment" has dominated treatment. We must work hard to end this situation and get involved in advocacy to reform our health care system from the bottom up.
Furthermore, continuing medical education opportunities sponsored by pharmaceutical companies are often biased toward one product or another, and they are more akin to marketing than CME. APA has strict guidelines for the industry-sponsored symposia presented at our annual meetings; sanctions are applied when our rules are broken. Our guidelines have been held up as a standard for medical meetings in other specialties throughout the country. But there are many grand rounds, evening dinners, and lectures where such standards do not prevail.
Direct marketing to consumers also leads to increased demand for medications and inflates expectations about the benefits of medications. As a profession, we need to be concerned about advertising and the impact it has on the over-medicalization of our field. Of course, what is marketed to consumers are the highest-cost, on-patent products, and the cost of medications is something rarely considered by prescribing clinicians. When doctors don't prescribe cheaper but equally effective drugs, it consumes money that could have been used to provide other psychiatric or medical services.
There are examples of the "ugly" practices that undermine the credibility of our profession. Drug company representatives will be the first to say that it is the doctors who request the fancy dinners, cruises, tickets to athletic events, and so on. But can we really be surprised that several states have passed laws to force disclosure of these gifts? So-called "preceptorships" are another example of the "ugly"; that is, drug companies who pay physicians to allow company reps to sit in on patient sessions allegedly to learn more about care for patients and then advise the doctor on appropriate prescribing.
Drug company representatives bearing gifts are frequent visitors to psychiatrists' offices and consulting rooms. We should have the wisdom and distance to call these gifts what they are—kickbacks and bribes. (For more thoughts on this topic, see Viewpoints on page 33.) If we are seen as mere pill pushers and employees of the pharmaceutical industry, our credibility as a profession is compromised.
Here are several suggestions for remedies in our relationship with the industry.
We need to embrace a new professional ethic. The doctor-patient relationship should not be a market-driven phenomenon.
Preceptorships should be considered unethical.
Enticements, gifts, parties, and so on should be reined in because patients must believe that their doctor has their best interests in mind when a prescription is handed to them.
We must re-evaluate single-sponsored medical education events and phase them out in favor of more general support for CME along with a careful policing of these events for bias.
The amount and support received by individual clinicians and researchers from industry should be transparent and the information readily available.
When we attend lectures at annual meetings and other educational events, and read journals and textbooks, we should know very clearly about the industry support given to presenters and authors.
As psychiatrists, we should all be grateful for the modern pharmacopia and the promise of even more improvements in the future. At the same time, however, we must be very mindful that we cannot accept gratuities in the new medical marketplace.
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Here is something more recent:
Pharmaceutical companies fail to publicly reveal all of the money and gifts they give to physicians and health care workers—making it hard to know what the money is for …
What they were doing," Ross says, "is saying that all of their payments were trade secrets … It's improbable that all of a company's payments were truly proprietary." Moreover, in 75 percent of the reports handed over to the researchers, the companies failed to identify the gift recipients despite a legal requirement to do so, Ross says.
In Vermont, companies made 2416 such payments, which totaled $1 million. Half of all payments exceeded $177, up to a maximum of $20,000, and 68 percent were listed as food. In Minnesota, of 6238 payments totaling $22.4 million, half of the payments topped $1,000, and the largest was $922,239.…..
....Pharmaceutical companies' "marketing techniques and their reluctance to disclose them invite further misgivings about the industry.
Link to article (http://http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa011&articleID=71D55F0E-E7F2-99DF-3F243E5B3A6D719D)
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That article was in Scientific American and about the AMA - how is pertinent to psychiatry (duh, try somethign about *APA*) Seriously, are you that dense? There is a huge difference between the two - but you can tell your total ignorance is showing.
Dude, you cannot even cite academic articles - iIgave you the presidents address and you give me some shit you can get off a newstand? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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Plus, please read the aforementioned things I already posted - so far you have showed me nothing about *PSYCHIATRISTS* (you don't know the difference between a therapist and an MD!!!! :rofl: :rofl: )
Nothing, i keep offering more proof and show zero results as they pertain to the argument of PSYCHIATRY!!!!
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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The interests of Big Pharma and psychiatry, however, are often not aligned. The practice of psychiatry and the pharmaceutical industry have different goals and abide by different ethics. Big Pharma is a business, governed by the motive of selling products and making money. The profession of psychiatry aims to provide the highest quality of psychiatric care to persons who suffer from psychiatric conditions.
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Sorry to upset you so much and burst your bubble. But did you really think that doctors and psychologists were immune to receiving gifts and bribes? What country are you from...wake up!! The article is clear and JAMA has also jumped in and are concerned.
Michelle Mello of the Harvard School of Public Health write in an editorial accompanying the study in this week's JAMA The Journal of the American Medical Association. "Drug companies' attempt to evade regulations may backfire," they conclude, if "public resentment over noncompliance with existing laws sparks demand for additional regulation."
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Aw poor who, you are all over the place - too bad you can't put an argument together without the spin. I'm not upset, but I do think you are projecting.
You still haven't answered the questions - you made these grand claims about psychiatry and now you are falling back on the AMA.
Too bad for you. I can see you for the blowhard phony who is full of shit for exactly what you are - full of shit.
& remember you're extravagant claims have been saved for all of posterity
I am not insinuating, I have stated that there are incentives to prescribe one competing medication over another. You may call it bribes if you like. In post soviet eastern bloc countries they call it "Gifts" so you choose.
Mathematics Disorder (cant wait to read the details)
Caffeine Disorder
Disorder of Written Expression
Telephone Scatalogia (making obscene calls) and believe it or not you will be able to get reimbursed for having Malingering, because this will become a disorder that needs treatment…Woah!!!! ………. to name a very few.
After 2011 a diagnosis (for the above, as well as many others) will qualify for payment by health insurance agencies.
One of the challenges for psychiatrists and/ or psychologists is to constantly bridge the gap between diagnosis and insurance reimbursement. They also need to keep their thumb on the pulse of what the pharmaceutical industry is testing or presently has in clinical trials so they can reduce couch time (which insurance companies hate) and prescribe more drugs.
personally, I can't wait for the APA lawyers to get a hold of you.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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Mathematics Disorder (cant wait to read the details)
Caffeine Disorder
Disorder of Written Expression
Telephone Scatalogia (making obscene calls) and believe it or not you will be able to get reimbursed for having Malingering, because this will become a disorder that needs treatment…Woah!!!! ………. to name a very few.
After 2011 a diagnosis (for the above, as well as many others) will qualify for payment by health insurance agencies.
Also, care to back any of this up?? Mathematics disorder is dyscalculia - and is already in the DSM-IV - it's for site specific brain injuires an/or learning disorders. So again, you're wrong!
I could go through the whole list and make you look truly stupid but you are on well on your way to doing that all by yourself.
As i said, you didn't even know the difference between an MSW vs MD - or even the difference bewteen the APA president and scientific american. So, when you get a clue or some evidence - let me know. Until, ciao!
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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Sorry to upset you so much and burst your bubble. But did you really think that doctors and psychologists were immune to receiving gifts and bribes? What country are you from...wake up!! The article is clear and JAMA has also jumped in and are concerned.
Michelle Mello of the Harvard School of Public Health write in an editorial accompanying the study in this week's JAMA The Journal of the American Medical Association. "Drug companies' attempt to evade regulations may backfire," they conclude, if "public resentment over noncompliance with existing laws sparks demand for additional regulation."
...
Hey Who,
A little of your own advice back to you. If you calm down and listen up, you just might learn something.
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I just wanted to add one more so we can keep them all together
remember you're extravagant claims have been saved for all of posterity
I am not insinuating, I have stated that there are incentives to prescribe one competing medication over another. You may call it bribes if you like. In post soviet eastern bloc countries they call it "Gifts" so you choose.
Mathematics Disorder (cant wait to read the details)
Caffeine Disorder
Disorder of Written Expression
Telephone Scatalogia (making obscene calls) and believe it or not you will be able to get reimbursed for having Malingering, because this will become a disorder that needs treatment…Woah!!!! ………. to name a very few.
After 2011 a diagnosis (for the above, as well as many others) will qualify for payment by health insurance agencies.
One of the challenges for psychiatrists and/ or psychologists is to constantly bridge the gap between diagnosis and insurance reimbursement. They also need to keep their thumb on the pulse of what the pharmaceutical industry is testing or presently has in clinical trials so they can reduce couch time (which insurance companies hate) and prescribe more drugs.
I said the doctor needs to diagnose a patient and label them into a category that is acceptable to their insurance company in order to get paid for ongoing visits or medication. If the doctor submits “Afraid of mother-in-lawâ€
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Thanks!
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Hey Who,
A little of your own advice back to you. If you calm down and listen up, you just might learn something.
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I just think it's funny how he's totally clueless about the finer technical terms and keeps quoting things are totally off- the-mark.
OK, I'll be nice and break it down.
AMA=American Medical Association
APA=American psychiatric Association, MD's
(not to be confused with the American Psychological Association, Ph.d's)
Try to keep up, OK?
Different animals.
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I just think it's funny how he's totally clueless about the finer technical terms and keeps quoting things are totally off- the-mark.
OK, I'll be nice and break it down.
AMA=American Medical Association
APA=American psychiatric Association, MD's
(not to be confused with the American Psychological Association, Ph.d's)
Try to keep up, OK?
Different animals.
Give it up an MD is an MD wheher you treat a foot a heart or a head, Shrinks are not any more ethical. The article said doctors, which includes shrinks. Take it up the street, you dont know what you are talking about.
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Here is something more recent:
Pharmaceutical companies fail to publicly reveal all of the money and gifts they give to physicians and health care workers—making it hard to know what the money is for …
What they were doing," Ross says, "is saying that all of their payments were trade secrets … It's improbable that all of a company's payments were truly proprietary." Moreover, in 75 percent of the reports handed over to the researchers, the companies failed to identify the gift recipients despite a legal requirement to do so, Ross says.
In Vermont, companies made 2416 such payments, which totaled $1 million. Half of all payments exceeded $177, up to a maximum of $20,000, and 68 percent were listed as food. In Minnesota, of 6238 payments totaling $22.4 million, half of the payments topped $1,000, and the largest was $922,239.…..
....Pharmaceutical companies' "marketing techniques and their reluctance to disclose them invite further misgivings about the industry.
Link to article (http://http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa011&articleID=71D55F0E-E7F2-99DF-3F243E5B3A6D719D)
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Good find
This includes all medical doctors, shrinks, podiatrists, heart doctors, any of them who deal with prescribing drugs of which shrinks have a large share of.
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Who was that guy? Did not know too much about doctors and seemed really pissedoff.
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Guest wrote:
Huh? What the fuck is the last poster talking about? Put down the bottle, quit jamming crystal meth up your ass, and come back later when you can string together a coherent train of thought.
PSY
Parents. Welcome to Fornits TTI forum... Try to have a stomach for a little while until the forum anon posters feel you out(though some might always hate parents).
no offense taken since it's obvious I am the first parent ever who logged on here and wrote stupid stuff :roll:
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This will certainly put Who in a relaxed mood.
You will notice that I have imitated Who's three dots at the end of the post.
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(http://http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n254/schadi1023/th_salsa.jpg) (http://http://s114.photobucket.com/albums/n254/schadi1023/?action=view¤t=salsa.flv)
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Who was that guy? Did not know too much about doctors and seemed really pissedoff.
Don’t know, a little mixed up with their facts though and yes definitely angry Ha,Ha,Ha,. He/she didn’t know that Shrinks could hold a MD and are part of the AMA and I think that was where they were mixed up a bit and struggled to gain understanding of the article. Seemed really offended that I viewed all doctors ethically the same whether they were a psychologist, heart doctor, ear,nose and throat person etc. If they prescribe medicine then they are exposed to being approached by the pharmaceutical industry.
Anyway it was a good discussion I think.
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Maybe they just really hate TheWho.
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Maybe they just really hate TheWho.
The anon was a he, that logs in as RobertBruce. he was posting as a guest. Just thought you should know.
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Maybe they just really hate TheWho.
The anon was a he, that logs in as RobertBruce. he was posting as a guest. Just thought you should know.
Ha,Ha,Ha Really? RobertBruce, I remember him…the little guy from HLA that use to troll for DJ. Wonder what ever happened to him? Someone mentioned his wife unplugged his lap top and put it on top of the refrigerator where he can’t reach it….. too funny.
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Very funny, Cindy. I'm still here, I forgot my password.
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Who, can you enlighten us as to your connection to Bain Capital? I'd really like an answer this time. Anything. Fuck off, whatever. I know you read these questions and they're the only ones that you ignore. I wonder why that is?
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Who, can you enlighten us as to your connection to Bain Capital? I'd really like an answer this time. Anything. Fuck off, whatever. I know you read these questions and they're the only ones that you ignore. I wonder why that is?
I dont have any connection to Bain Capital.
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Thanks. At least I got an answer this time. Bullshit or not.
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Thanks. At least I got an answer this time. Bullshit or not.
Anne will sleep well tonight.
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the borderline one was interesting to me.
Borderline=Get the Fuck Out of My Office or more politely, GOMER: Get the (fuck) out of My Emergency Room
Lots of these are just labels for independent thinkers.
But what if you really have faulty, irrational processing? Like the guy who thinks he is the victim when he shits on everyone (borderline)? Is he really just a Crazy Fuck?
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the borderline one was interesting to me.
Borderline=Get the Fuck Out of My Office or more politely, GOMER: Get the (fuck) out of My Emergency Room
Lots of these are just labels for independent thinkers.
But what if you really have faulty, irrational processing? Like the guy who thinks he is the victim when he shits on everyone (borderline)? Is he really just a Crazy Fuck?
Contemplate the possibility that he was first shit on- which taught him how to shit on other people. While he shits on people, he can still feel like a victim. Not "crazy". No genetic defect. Victim AND perpetrator. Learned roles. Most humans are victim-perpetrators on some level or another. Part of the societal programming. Some just get a heavier dose. They're the ones the other victim-perps label crazy.
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Forced psychiatric care is something to be reckoned with in today's society.