Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Che Gookin on October 25, 2007, 01:53:41 AM
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Who are we to attack those who believe in the experiences they went through? A young man or woman who shows up on fornits and claims to have had a good experience is quickly labeled the following:
A) Brainwashed
B) Troll
C) Karen In Dallas in Disguise
With these accusations they are visciously attacked with porn, called all sorts of names, and called traitors.
I've done it before.. to my own shame.
You see I no longer see it important to classify programs as either good or bad. Abuse happens in programs, schools, churches, homes, regulated facilites, public bathrooms, water parks, and just about every single place imaginable. To me the greater issue lies beyond abusive programmes that are privately owned or even good programmes that are privately owned.
The distinction no longer matters to me and to those who feel they had a good experience I encourage you to discuss them.
What matters to me is that I come from a country where dogs have more rights than kids. It amused me to watch the GAO hearing and hear the bit about dogs having more rights and protection than kids. I actually told my group once that hunting dogs have more rights than children in the State of Alabama. I'll be sure to send the congressmen who scored some votes off my material a bill.
It bothers me that a kid can be sent away for treatment without the benifits of due process. It bothers the hell out of me that kids are sent away with no chance to appeal. No chance to explain their case with the help of a representative.
I believe some states, New York if I'm not mistaken, actually has a court for pets.
And we live in a country where kids can be shipped off without a chance at a fair hearing, appeals, and access to advocates?
So that is my thing and I encourage those who feel they have had a positive program experience to share them. Your insight is just as valuable as anyone elses.
Do be prepared for the scat porn and other moronic crap though. Just the nature of the beast.
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It's one thing to show up on fornits and claim you had a good experience in program. It's entirely another to show up on Fornits, start defending rapists, calling others names etc., generally being a cunt*, and expecting everybody else (in an unmoderated forum) to be fine and dandy with it. It just isn't going to happen. Some people crave drama. She's one of them. TheWho, on the other hand, is probably paid to post here (or completely and utterly cracked in the head, IMO).
On the other hand, not everybody likes to see images of hard-core bondage porn. If you want to actually reach parents, especially conservative ones (the majority of program parents), porn isn't going to do it, and it gives Fornits-haters a lot of ammo against us as a collective body (which is how prejudiced, illogical people judge, the entire group by the actions of a single member). Parents (often) have a hard time accepting the whole "completely unmoderated" thing often, so try and show a little respect, please. If not for the parents, for any kids they might have.
Stuff said here does influence people's decisions and lives. The more parent-friendly this forum is, the safer kids are... and some current program parents might come and want to take their kids out. Sure there are a bunch of trolls on Fornits (and I really wish one in particular would cut it out... please...) but there are real parents who do come here, and steriotypes exist for a reason... (some of those crazy people are real, and they have kids, unfortunately). Some listen and make decisions, at least get informed a little about the industry. Some don't, but it never hurts to try. I know everybody jokes about the internet and "serious business" but what is said here does have real world consequences outside of that normal "serious business" paradigm. Please respect that. Let's try and work together on organizing action to fuck these people up rather than bickering**.
*(although normally I would never consider using such language, the circumstances warrant it's usage in that it is the most offensive to the target of the insult(who totally deserves it, given some of the shit she said to some of my friends))
**(even though I do it too, admittedly. And sometimes it's appropriate, but when it fills the whole page... come on.. take it to free for all.)
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It's one thing to show up on fornits and claim you had a good experience in program. It's entirely another to show up on Fornits, start defending rapists, calling others names etc., generally being a cunt*, and expecting everybody else (in an unmoderated forum) to be fine and dandy with it. It just isn't going to happen. Some people crave drama. She's one of them. TheWho, on the other hand, is probably paid to post here (or completely and utterly cracked in the head, IMO).
She wasn't always like that.. back when she first started... before you arrived she was a genuinely decent person... It wasn't until she stated that she had a positive experience at Heritage when she was attacked by everyone and their cousin.
This was pretty vile shit to that was flung at her..
Ever since she has just arsed people off as who really listens to her or even tries to sorting out the reasons behind her feelings?
Simple case of marginalization.. we treated her like total shit.. she responded in kind...
On the other hand, not everybody likes to see images of hard-core bondage porn.
Yeah I agree.. which is why I no longer post it.
If you want to actually reach parents, especially conservative ones (the majority of program parents), porn isn't going to do it, and it gives Fornits-haters a lot of ammo against us as a collective body (which is how prejudiced, illogical people judge, the entire group by the actions of a single member). Parents (often) have a hard time accepting the whole "completely unmoderated" thing often, so try and show a little respect, please. If not for the parents, for any kids they might have.
I find this hard to accept at times considering we have a moderated forum here to use. I notice that these parents show up in the dumbest places and when it is suggested that they move to the Q/A they never bother.. or they stay in the TTI and keep slugging it out.. Makes me wonder how many really are parents.
Stuff said here does influence people's decisions and lives. The more parent-friendly this forum is, the safer kids are... and some current program parents might come and want to take their kids out. Sure there are a bunch of trolls on Fornits (and I really wish one in particular would cut it out... please...) but there are real parents who do come here, and steriotypes exist for a reason... (some of those crazy people are real, and they have kids, unfortunately). Some listen and make decisions, at least get informed a little about the industry. Some don't, but it never hurts to try. I know everybody jokes about the internet and "serious business" but what is said here does have real world consequences outside of that normal "serious business" paradigm. Please respect that. Let's try and work together on organizing action to fuck these people up rather than bickering**.
Our greatest strength is our refusal to comply with the norms. Had we been a pack of sheep like faggots most of us would still be worshipping at the altar of George Miller saying, "OH george.. you get me so hard.. BAAAAAA."
I'm not to keen on organizing for the most part. I prefer smaller groups of 3 to 4 anyway. Larger groups tend to get to clouded with bullshit and the next thing you know you have cafarty which ended up a smaller group that is just clouded with even more bullshit.
*(although normally I would never consider using such language, the circumstances warrant it's usage in that it is the most offensive to the target of the insult(who totally deserves it, given some of the shit she said to some of my friends))
Think back to the shit that has been said to her repeatedly for over a year.
**(even though I do it too, admittedly. And sometimes it's appropriate, but when it fills the whole page... come on.. take it to free for all.)
And who really reads it when it is that long?
Now the above purpose of my original post wasn't a commentary about fornits in general.
I do believe plenty of young men and women have positve life changing experiences in programs. I've seen it and other people who post on this forum have seen it. Most of the time we'd rather not say much about it to save ourselves the drama.
Good or bad I do believe that kids deserve without condition the right to due process. No child should be sent away without a hearing to determine the need for it. No child should be without proper representation and nor should they be without appeals to their commitment.
I could expand on this greatly but to keep it short..
I'm not a big fan of any place that doesn't allow access to advocates 24 hours a day.
Nor do I agree with these holistic approaches to treatment that involve stuffing a burning incense stick up your arse whilst praying for 8 hours a day.
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I would agree with most of the original post. I would say that I fall into the camp that says that there are no good programs based on the fact that incarceration without trial and due process is inherently wrong no matter how benevolent the prison. The things that go on are secondary to this fact.
But you are right here CTD. It is both mean spirited and unnecessary to call anyone who has been through this system names, regardless of how crazy one thinks their ideas are. it serves no purpose. it is demeaning. There is such an irony bitter in attacking somebody on a personal level because you don't like ehat they say about their experieces within a system that often attacks young people on a personal level.
As to the who. He can fuck right off
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CCM had just as much of a hand in creating that Heritage mess as the trolls. It started off fine but she lost it after I posted that information from heal. She was so pissed that we were questioning that program. It was after CCM and the who started joking about starting an abusive program that the thread seriously went to shit.
But anyway I agree with what psy said.... All the porn and random slam threads I've never understood and when I first came here and saw that I was totally lost. It took a while to figure out what was going on here and had I not been driven I would have written this place off as downright Bizarre.
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CCM had just as much of a hand in creating that Heritage mess as the trolls. It started off fine but she lost it after I posted that information from heal. She was so pissed that we were questioning that program. It was after CCM and the who started joking about starting an abusive program that the thread seriously went to shit.
But anyway I agree with what psy said.... All the porn and random slam threads I've never understood and when I first came here and saw that I was totally lost. It took a while to figure out what was going on here and had I not been driven I would have written this place off as downright Bizarre.
A little finger pointing going on?
Read back over the thread. It was going fine until you and Anne Bonney started in on CCM and then Niles started in on her.
Why Blame every derailed thread on the Who? Compare what he wrote to what yourself, Anne Bonney and Niles usual flood of hate and porn.
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CCM had just as much of a hand in creating that Heritage mess as the trolls. It started off fine but she lost it after I posted that information from heal. She was so pissed that we were questioning that program. [Me?][/color] and Anne Bonney started in on CCM and then Niles started in on her.
Why Blame every derailed thread on the Who? Compare what he wrote to what yourself, Anne Bonney and Niles usual flood of hate and porn.
My posts from the heritage thread, 1 (http://http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=286475&highlight=#286475) 2 (http://http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=286537&highlight=#286537) 3 (http://http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=286601&highlight=#286601) 4 (http://http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=286645&highlight=#286645) 5 (http://http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=286691&highlight=#286691)
And nope never posted porn or anything I would rate as hateful("Like X poster is gay" threads). Those things are so not my thing, nor do I understand the purpose crap like that serves in ending child abuse.
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A little finger pointing going on?
Read back over the thread. It was going fine until you and Anne Bonney started in on CCM and then Niles started in on her.
Why Blame every derailed thread on the Who? Compare what he wrote to what yourself, Anne Bonney and Niles usual flood of hate and porn.
I think you need to read back over it. None of those people showed up in that thread until well after CCM started showing her ass. She's just pissed because she got called on it.
And I haven't posted any porn. Where have I been hateful? I've disagreed with her and even told her to fuck off, but hateful? Show me.
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A little finger pointing going on?
Read back over the thread. It was going fine until you and Anne Bonney started in on CCM and then Niles started in on her.
Why Blame every derailed thread on the Who? Compare what he wrote to what yourself, Anne Bonney and Niles usual flood of hate and porn.
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My theory is that there are no good programs because the motivations are all wrong. Its sort of like a politician; no one who actually wants the office is a person who would be good doing it. People might start off running a therapeutic boarding school for good reasons, but they quickly leave and the ones who are running them for the money are all that is left. I am convinced that most of the abuse that you see in residential therapeutic facilities is because people are more interested in money than in the kids. They don't intend to harm the kids, but making a big profit naturally leads to it.
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My theory is that there are no good programs because the motivations are all wrong. Its sort of like a politician; no one who actually wants the office is a person who would be good doing it. People might start off running a therapeutic boarding school for good reasons, but they quickly leave and the ones who are running them for the money are all that is left. I am convinced that most of the abuse that you see in residential therapeutic facilities is because people are more interested in money than in the kids. They don't intend to harm the kids, but making a big profit naturally leads to it.
I agree with this. I don’t think anyone wakes up in the morning and says to themselves “Lets create a school for abusing kids… lets figure out a way to isolate them from their parents and then just abuse them for the fun of it. And just to make sure nobody finds out about it we will hire people who have gone to school to get educated in helping children.â€
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Straight Inc. By the Sea:
The wave of the future in drug treatment.â„¢
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This is the type of stuff that was being said to me:
Oh god, CMSGirly butthurt AGAIN. Forgot the astroglide or just on the rag?
Honestly. Who are you? You're a WWASPIE survivor and you were put in a litany of other programs and you're projecting your OPINIONS and experiences as a FUCKED UP TEENAGER and acting like that amounts to anything more than the opinions of a program apologetic with a ton of baggage and a habit of projecting your own shit on others, and flipping out if people have any criticism for what you say at all!
Nevermind the fact that the grievances I RESPECTFULLY brought up are 100% WRONG, period, the fact that I brought it up against one of your "approved programs" means you need to flip-out, bitch-out and wig-out and spread estrogen everywhere and PMS all over the thread because I didn't bow down to your fucking opinion.
Need a 50 waahhhhmbulance post again?
Also here is some more:
Because her parents threw her away like the worthless whore she is.
More charming words:
We will do this, we will do that, your credibility, WAH WAH WAH.
Sounds like maybe you need a good, long raping too.
And then after I'm done I'll brainwash you to like it and then you can post on Fornits how nice it was.
I'll tell you this, though: It'll take a lot less time than a couple months! So by ramming my meat into your twisted cunt I'm actually doing a lot less to you than you are to your own daughter.
Funny how that works, isn't it?
Is it okay to speak to me like this because my experiences and opinions are different then yours? I don't think it is. I say it how it is, and if you can't handle somebody being 100% honest with how they feel, and what they went through, then that is your problem.
I get attacked every time I speak out. It gets so tiring having to do the back, and forth. Like I said before, it's a full time job. I don't enjoy the attention. What I do enjoy however is being able to give parents who come on here looking for information, the right information.
Not all programs are bad.
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I say you damn well asked for everything Niles dished out, CCM Girl..time to move on now! :rofl:
So what you are saying is abuse is okay as long as the kid was asking for it? If the kids stay in line or keeps their mouth shut they wont get abused. So it seems the kids have some control over whether or not they are abused.
Interesting point.
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I truly don't see what the goddam FUSS is all about... I bet I would've fooled around with CCM Girl too if she was willing to blow a crusty old fuck like me! What's the problem with a stiff ol' exec getting a little action? Us Fucktards get lonely once in a while too, you know.....
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I'll tell you this, though: It'll take a lot less time than a couple months! So by ramming my meat into your twisted cunt I'm actually doing a lot less to you than you are to your own daughter.
Hey wait a freaking minute. You can have her after I'm done. She needs to be marathoned.
(http://http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e11/Agachak/Id_hit_it_003.jpg)
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I truly don't see what the goddam FUSS is all about... I bet I would've fooled around with CCM Girl too if she was willing to blow a crusty old fuck like me! What's the problem with a stiff ol' exec getting a little action? Us Fucktards get lonely once in a while too, you know.....
How nice of you to make an appearance Doc! I just love when people like this show up. BTW, it just proves my point about the majority of the posters on here being nuts.
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How nice of you to make an appearance Doc! I just love when people like this show up. BTW, it just proves my point about the majority of the posters on here being nuts.
:roll: Sounds like you may be in need of a little evaluation yourself there, CCM girl.. whaddya say we send the StraightMobile over so we can figure out just what's up with you.....
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This is the type of stuff that was being said to me:
Oh god, CMSGirly butthurt AGAIN. Forgot the astroglide or just on the rag?
Honestly. Who are you? You're a WWASPIE survivor and you were put in a litany of other programs and you're projecting your OPINIONS and experiences as a FUCKED UP TEENAGER and acting like that amounts to anything more than the opinions of a program apologetic with a ton of baggage and a habit of projecting your own shit on others, and flipping out if people have any criticism for what you say at all!
Please point out to me where I was out of line with you, other than telling you to fuck off. Which can be debated as being out of line or not. Yes, I said it. I still say it. If you think its perfectly OK for a staff member to fuck a patient, if you think its perfectly OK for an adult to fuck a child as long as the child thinks the guy is hot, I say fuck you. If that makes me an asshole, I guess I'm an asshole. You look back through that thread and tell me where I attacked you.
Nevermind the fact that the grievances I RESPECTFULLY brought up are 100% WRONG, period, the fact that I brought it up against one of your "approved programs" means you need to flip-out, bitch-out and wig-out and spread estrogen everywhere and PMS all over the thread because I didn't bow down to your fucking opinion.
If a program holds a kid against their will, forces or coerces them to adopt a set of values their are either not ready or unwilling to accept, it is a rape of the mind and soul.
Need a 50 waahhhhmbulance post again?
Also here is some more:
Because her parents threw her away like the worthless whore she is.
More charming words:
We will do this, we will do that, your credibility, WAH WAH WAH.
Sounds like maybe you need a good, long raping too.
And then after I'm done I'll brainwash you to like it and then you can post on Fornits how nice it was.
I'll tell you this, though: It'll take a lot less time than a couple months! So by ramming my meat into your twisted cunt I'm actually doing a lot less to you than you are to your own daughter.
Funny how that works, isn't it?
Is it okay to speak to me like this because my experiences and opinions are different then yours? I don't think it is. I say it how it is, and if you can't handle somebody being 100% honest with how they feel, and what they went through, then that is your problem.
I get attacked every time I speak out. It gets so tiring having to do the back, and forth. Like I said before, it's a full time job. I don't enjoy the attention. What I do enjoy however is being able to give parents who come on here looking for information, the right information.
Not all programs are bad.
Tell me again where I said any of those things. Other than you being brainwashed. I believe that.
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Anne, I don't think I ever said it was okay to "fuck" a patient. I just merely said that I didn't always consider it abuse. My opinion. I gave some examples of the houseparents being very close in age to the students, and they both were willing parties, and you all start throwing around the word rape, and sexual abuse.
Some of us fooled around, but I don't think there was any fucking going on until that student left that program, and was able to reconnect with a staff member. You see, we were watched pretty closely. You might be able to get away with a 30 second quickie?!! But, even then....that would be difficult to get away with. Never knew of one student who had sex while in the school with a houseparent.
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Anne, I don't think I ever said it was okay to "fuck" a patient. I just merely said that I didn't always consider it abuse. My opinion.
You said it wasn't abusive for a staff person to have a sexual relationship with a patient as long as it was 'consensual' and the guy was "hot", did you not????
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CCM Girl...... Can you say Statutory Rape[/color]
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Anne, I don't think I ever said it was okay to "fuck" a patient. I just merely said that I didn't always consider it abuse. My opinion.
You said it wasn't abusive for a staff person to have a sexual relationship with a patient as long as it was 'consensual' and the guy was "hot", did you not????
You got me Anne! I just don't classify it under ABUSE. Especially when they are close in age, and they both were consenting. That's my opinion. By the way, like I said before, things never got too far until the student was released. Too many people around.
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It's this simple.
I asked valid questions, I got an emotionally charged response and accusations.
Now, in case you don't know, NOBODY TELL ME WHAT I CAN OR CAN NOT SAY. :D
Also, flipping out at me is just going to make me want to piss you off more.
I'll gladly cite the fucking post that started this if I have to, but the bottom line is this:
If all you do is bitch, moan, and pull argumentative fallacies to get around answering hard questions, you shouldn't be on fornits! No matter how attached you are to your OPINIONS, facts will always take president.
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How about abuse of power? Staff/patient Teacher/student
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Why are student - staff relationships inappropriate?
This is from a completely different forum, but seems to be most applicable here. The circumstances that predate this posting were a so-called guru who persuaded an employee/follower to engage in a three year affair. The shit hit the fan eventually, and it turns out the young woman really hadn't wanted this after all, but was brainwashed into it due in part to the 30 year age difference, the disparity in power (guru/follower), not to mention other influences as well... At the time of this writing, former follower/student was in a very precarious state psychologically, contemplating suicide. The book this poster is paraphrasing (author Dr. Peter Rutter) has to do with inappropriate relationships between therapist and patient, primarily.
Amazon LINK for book description (http://http://www.amazon.com/Sex-Forbidden-Zone-Peter-Rutter/dp/0449147274)
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LINK to topica list (http://http://lists.topica.com/lists/elijaxonbear-gangajidisgraced/read/message.html?sort=&mid=913389104&start=7)
Rutter takes the position that a "forbidden zone always exists in the relationship between doctor and patient, therapist and client, clergyman and congregant, lawyer and client, teacher and student. All of these professions carry a special trust not to abuse the seen or unseen dependent elements that inevitably develop." Because of the greater power of the professional, the client is unable to give truly informed consent, and it is thus the responsibility of the person in the more powerful position to control the necessary boundary between the two parties.
"Amorous relationships that might be appropriate in other circumstances are always wrong when they occur between any teacher or officer and any student for whom he or she has a professional responsibility. Further, such relationships may have the effect of undermining the atmosphere of trust on which the educational process depends. Implicit in the idea of professionalism is the recognition by those in positions of authority that in their relationships with students there is always an element of power. It is incumbent upon those with authority not to abuse, nor seem to abuse, the power with which they are entrusted."
The gender relationship between student and teacher is itself a risk factor, just given the sheer probability of an erotic attraction. There are a number of factors that could reflect a psychological vulnerability on the part of the student, such as low self-esteem, a need for authority, a pattern of repeated victimization, or difficulties with a personal relationship. "Transference" issues can come up in a close mentoring relationship just as readily as in a therapeutic relationship. For example, a student may see her teacher as the kind of father she wished she had.
There are risk factors for the teacher as well. As with therapists, we sometimes see a pattern of predatory sexism related to a characterological impairment. This may be reflected in a series of repeated relationships, or deliberate manipulation of a professional relationship to meet personal needs. Attempts by the student to terminate the disturbing aspects of such a relationship often result in either intimidation or dependent, demanding entreaties on the part of the professional.
Sexual abuse is defined by the forcing of undesired sexual acts by one person to another. Different types of sexual abuse involve: Non-consensual, forced physical sexual behavior such as rape. Psychological forms of abuse, such as verbal sexual behavior.
The use of a position of trust for sexual purposes. Position of trust is a legal term used in the U.K, the U.S, Canada, and perhaps other countries. It refers to a position of authority over another person or within an organization. Crimes committed by a person in a position of trust may be penalized more severely under the law.
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Despite the fact that this is a troll thread, I want to respond to CCM's ancient quote.
Teenagers are horny.
Being with someone older as a teen is sexy.
Being with someone older as a teen and that person has a position of authority over you is even sexier.
All of this is normal. There were so many adults I wanted to fuck as a teen it wasn't even funny. Had an adult been willing, I would have jumped at the chance.
Most teens would.
And any adult who takes advantage of this perfectly normal thing is a scumbag, because they should seriously fucking know better.
And I'm not talking about age in numbers. If you are 18 and you are dating a 16 year old that is fine and dandy as far as I'm concerned. If you are 35, however, that is fucked up. Why? Because of the authority dynamic. If you started dating that girl ten years later, even though the age difference is the same, the level of development is not, because that person is an adult and has learned how to set boundaries. Teens set boundaries, too, but no matter how rebellious someone is at that age, if they have a thing for an adult and those two go at it, most of that teen moxie is going to turn into mushy infatuation.
YES, it is consensual. But it's still messed up. I know several people who had consensual sex with adults while they were teens, and they always regretted it.
So, to answer the question from another thread eons ago, CCMGirl:
Does that make it wrong for the male staff since we welcomed it?
YES!!!
Just another poster who is a liar, and just another person with a foul mouth. I could care less. You're funny actually. Thanks for the laughs. Don't pretend like you know me. You don't.
See. This is the type of thing that really makes me think she totally deserves it. What the fuck did Castle do to her? What did Rachael to deserve the comment about the time she got raped being "interesting". She disclosed that publicly and it was brave to do... and what did she get for it? She wasn't even attacking CCM as far as I remember, just questioning her Ken Kay-esque belief that staff fucking kids is just dandy.
If you want to know why it is wrong, look into why shrinks aren't allowed to ethically fuck their patients, regardless of age.
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From Rutter:
"Amorous relationships that might be appropriate in other circumstances are always wrong when they occur between any teacher or officer and any student for whom he or she has a professional responsibility. Further, such relationships may have the effect of undermining the atmosphere of trust on which the educational process depends. Implicit in the idea of professionalism is the recognition by those in positions of authority that in their relationships with students there is always an element of power. It is incumbent upon those with authority not to abuse, nor seem to abuse, the power with which they are entrusted."
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My theory is that there are no good programs because the motivations are all wrong. Its sort of like a politician; no one who actually wants the office is a person who would be good doing it. People might start off running a therapeutic boarding school for good reasons, but they quickly leave and the ones who are running them for the money are all that is left. I am convinced that most of the abuse that you see in residential therapeutic facilities is because people are more interested in money than in the kids. They don't intend to harm the kids, but making a big profit naturally leads to it.
I agree with this. I don’t think anyone wakes up in the morning and says to themselves “Lets create a school for abusing kids… lets figure out a way to isolate them from their parents and then just abuse them for the fun of it."
And what of the sadists and sociopaths? Do they not exist? What if the originator of a particular program was already a staff or student in position of authority... who is already gone south on a power trip. The term "power trip" is particularly apt, linking a drug term with the intoxicating effect of power. Power tends to corrupt (create an addiction). It's only a matter of time (frequency) and amount (dosage). You'd be a fool to believe otherwise. What most program owners have is pretty close to completely unchecked power (heroin)...
Regulations only work if enforced and there has to be jurisdiction to enforce (easy to get around when you simply change terminology from "counselor" to "coach", for example). Program owners might think "oh... screw the state, they don't know how to help these kids, we do, etc..." and they create a justification to avoid regulation. I'm sure greed plays a factor as well. Gradually the money becomes more and more important... sooner or later, It's all about the money and the power it entails. A paycheck becomes a shackle, a lifestyle - a cage, a functioning program needed to sustain the family income. The same most likely goes for the staff and many of the locals who might depend on the program to live.
Remember the Milgram experiments? The vast majority of people would electrocute others who would then scream in pain if they were told it was necessary. Those people who participated in that experiment were not held captive by any financial responsibility. Imagine how bad the results would be if that was their job and the welfare of their family and lifestyle required it. What did concentration camp guards do? The mere historical existence of concentration camps should be enough proof that abusive programs can not only exist, but also easily pass undetected. Human nature is fucked up.
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psy, why dont you try to fix the database so this doesnt happen or talk to the other Admins:
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=290398#290398 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=290398#290398)
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=290400#290400 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=290400#290400)
or are you going to say I timed this one just right to edit it myself.... I know the answer do you?
do you think program staff will want to post here knowing posts are still being altered and I.P.s are being outed. I know I wouldnt if I worked for a school and wanted a place to safely tell my side of the story.
Why does this continue to happen?
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I agree. There are staff that would tell you what goes on behind closed doors if they knew their information was safe. But, it's been proven time, and time again that you expose, and alter posts. Good job!
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the who is altering the who's posts not anyone else.
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Who are we to attack those who believe in the experiences they went through? A young man or woman who shows up on fornits and claims to have had a good experience is quickly labeled the following:
A) Brainwashed
B) Troll
C) Karen In Dallas in Disguise
With these accusations they are visciously attacked with porn, called all sorts of names, and called traitors.
I've done it before.. to my own shame.
You see I no longer see it important to classify programs as either good or bad. Abuse happens in programs, schools, churches, homes, regulated facilites, public bathrooms, water parks, and just about every single place imaginable. To me the greater issue lies beyond abusive programmes that are privately owned or even good programmes that are privately owned.
The distinction no longer matters to me and to those who feel they had a good experience I encourage you to discuss them.
What matters to me is that I come from a country where dogs have more rights than kids. It amused me to watch the GAO hearing and hear the bit about dogs having more rights and protection than kids. I actually told my group once that hunting dogs have more rights than children in the State of Alabama. I'll be sure to send the congressmen who scored some votes off my material a bill.
It bothers me that a kid can be sent away for treatment without the benifits of due process. It bothers the hell out of me that kids are sent away with no chance to appeal. No chance to explain their case with the help of a representative.
I believe some states, New York if I'm not mistaken, actually has a court for pets.
And we live in a country where kids can be shipped off without a chance at a fair hearing, appeals, and access to advocates?
So that is my thing and I encourage those who feel they have had a positive program experience to share them. Your insight is just as valuable as anyone elses.
Do be prepared for the scat porn and other moronic crap though. Just the nature of the beast.
I thought you came from a country that eats dogs?
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lols.. no I lived in a country that eats dogs(korea) for three years.. I was born in a country that eats babies(usa)
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lols.. no I lived in a country that eats dogs(korea) for three years.. I was born in a country that eats babies(usa)
:rofl:
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Remember the Milgram experiments? The vast majority of people would electrocute others who would then scream in pain if they were told it was necessary. Those people who participated in that experiment were not held captive by any financial responsibility. Imagine how bad the results would be if that was their job and the welfare of their family and lifestyle required it. What did concentration camp guards do? The mere historical existence of concentration camps should be enough proof that abusive programs can not only exist, but also easily pass undetected. Human nature is fucked up.
In case anyone wants a refresher, Stanley Milgram, on 'Obedience':
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21676 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21676)
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OK, I stayed out of here all day because I didn't want to squabble over this subject anymore, but I have to say this last thing, though it has been said already. It is never OK, never, never, never OK for a legal adult to have a sexual relationship with a legal minor. Consentual, nonconsentual, rape or not. It is flat out wrong. Legally wrong, morally wrong, there is no excuse. I never said anything about CCM until she started attacking abuse victims personally, and I have never called her a foul name either unless you count shrew. I just don't know how as a female, she can defend staff having sex with a resident in a program. The fact she brags about having manipulated men into this situation in order to get them fired makes her a pour excuse for a human being. Those men deserved to lose their jobs because they were dumb enough to allow themselves to be manipulated into a bad thing, but they are still ultimately responsible. CCM, honey, any parent who read that little piece of testimony alone and still places their child in the program you were in should have their head examined, and possibly be jailed for endangerment. That is proof, that the staff members in the facility you were in were not adult enough to know the moral boundaries that society expects of it's average citizen. Teens are basicly sent to programs because the parents feel they are lacking in moral boundaries, why would you read that then intrust your child to people who according to someone who supports the program, have none. It is laughable. You just keep being the posterchild for your program, cause it is counterproductive.
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This is the type of stuff that was being said to me:
Oh god, CMSGirly butthurt AGAIN. Forgot the astroglide or just on the rag?
Honestly. Who are you? You're a WWASPIE survivor and you were put in a litany of other programs and you're projecting your OPINIONS and experiences as a FUCKED UP TEENAGER and acting like that amounts to anything more than the opinions of a program apologetic with a ton of baggage and a habit of projecting your own shit on others, and flipping out if people have any criticism for what you say at all!
Nevermind the fact that the grievances I RESPECTFULLY brought up are 100% WRONG, period, the fact that I brought it up against one of your "approved programs" means you need to flip-out, bitch-out and wig-out and spread estrogen everywhere and PMS all over the thread because I didn't bow down to your fucking opinion.
Need a 50 waahhhhmbulance post again?
Also here is some more:
Because her parents threw her away like the worthless whore she is.
More charming words:
We will do this, we will do that, your credibility, WAH WAH WAH.
Sounds like maybe you need a good, long raping too.
And then after I'm done I'll brainwash you to like it and then you can post on Fornits how nice it was.
I'll tell you this, though: It'll take a lot less time than a couple months! So by ramming my meat into your twisted cunt I'm actually doing a lot less to you than you are to your own daughter.
Funny how that works, isn't it?
Is it okay to speak to me like this because my experiences and opinions are different then yours? I don't think it is. I say it how it is, and if you can't handle somebody being 100% honest with how they feel, and what they went through, then that is your problem.
I get attacked every time I speak out. It gets so tiring having to do the back, and forth. Like I said before, it's a full time job. I don't enjoy the attention. What I do enjoy however is being able to give parents who come on here looking for information, the right information.
Not all programs are bad.
And the shit people have been saying to CCM Girl is ok as well? Come on don't be a hypocritical twat...
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psy, why dont you try to fix the database so this doesnt happen or talk to the other Admins:
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=290398#290398 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=290398#290398)
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=290400#290400 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=290400#290400)
or are you going to say I timed this one just right to edit it myself.... I know the answer do you?
do you think program staff will want to post here knowing posts are still being altered and I.P.s are being outed. I know I wouldnt if I worked for a school and wanted a place to safely tell my side of the story.
Why does this continue to happen?
TheWho -- just because your posts may be getting altered here and there doesn't necessarily mean that anyone else's posts are being altered. You are an annoying douche, and if an admin gets some laughs by putting "I am an idiot" at the end of one of your posts, I say ha, ha, ha... :rofl:
Tough shit, Who.. maybe NOW you'll know what it's like to have someone put words in YOUR mouth and call you a liar!!
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It's this simple.
I asked valid questions, I got an emotionally charged response and accusations.
Now, in case you don't know, NOBODY TELL ME WHAT I CAN OR CAN NOT SAY. :D
Also, flipping out at me is just going to make me want to piss you off more.
I'll gladly cite the fucking post that started this if I have to, but the bottom line is this:
If all you do is bitch, moan, and pull argumentative fallacies to get around answering hard questions, you shouldn't be on fornits! No matter how attached you are to your OPINIONS, facts will always take president.
Quoting until someone answers...
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I never said it was ok to be abusive to CCM girl, and I personally am not being abusive. You can be that way with me all you want to, I am a grown up, I can take it. Oh, and by the way, nice twist on my last name, but do you really think there is anything I haven't heard with a name like that, come on, give me a break. I am not fighting with CCM, I was nice to her, and you call me a hypocrite for it. Ok, so just to set it straight one more time. I think abuse is wrong, physical, sexual, mental, any form of abuse. I think it is even more disgusting when aimed at a child by an adult, especially an adult authority figure. Really, do you disagree? No one here should have to resort to personal abuse to get their point across, but since their are some among us that feel they are not capable of intelligent adult debate, go ahead and throw you abuse my direction, I can take it.