Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: hanzomon4 on October 22, 2007, 05:09:21 PM
-
(http://http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5h28LEG90GGTAaEOfdBPKwb5kXdawD8SD5OJO0)
By MARTHA IRVINE and ROBERT TANNER – 2 days ago
The young teacher hung his head, avoiding eye contact. Yes, he had touched a fifth-grader's breast during recess. "I guess it was just lust of the flesh," he told his boss.
That got Gary C. Lindsey fired from his first teaching job in Oelwein, Iowa. But it didn't end his career. He taught for decades in Illinois and Iowa, fending off at least a half-dozen more abuse accusations.
When he finally surrendered his teaching license in 2004 — 40 years after that first little girl came forward — it wasn't a principal or a state agency that ended his career. It was one persistent victim and her parents.
Lindsey's case is just a small example of a widespread problem in American schools: sexual misconduct by the very teachers who are supposed to be nurturing the nation's children.
Students in America's schools are groped. They're raped. They're pursued, seduced and think they're in love.
An Associated Press investigation found more than 2,500 cases over five years in which educators were punished for actions from bizarre to sadistic.
There are 3 million public school teachers nationwide, most devoted to their work. Yet the number of abusive educators — nearly three for every school day — speaks to a much larger problem in a system that is stacked against victims.
Most of the abuse never gets reported. Those cases reported often end with no action. Cases investigated sometimes can't be proven, and many abusers have several victims.
And no one — not the schools, not the courts, not the state or federal governments — has found a surefire way to keep molesting teachers out of classrooms.
Those are the findings of an AP investigation in which reporters sought disciplinary records in all 50 states and the District of Columbia. The result is an unprecedented national look at the scope of sex offenses by educators — the very definition of breach of trust.
The seven-month investigation found 2,570 educators whose teaching credentials were revoked, denied, surrendered or sanctioned from 2001 through 2005 following allegations of sexual misconduct.
Young people were the victims in at least 1,801 of the cases, and more than 80 percent of those were students. At least half the educators who were punished by their states also were convicted of crimes related to their misconduct.
The findings draw obvious comparisons to sex abuse scandals in other institutions, among them the Roman Catholic Church. A review by America's Catholic bishops found that about 4,400 of 110,000 priests were accused of molesting minors from 1950 through 2002.
Clergy abuse is part of the national consciousness after a string of highly publicized cases. But until now, there's been little sense of the extent of educator abuse.
Beyond the horror of individual crimes, the larger shame is that the institutions that govern education have only sporadically addressed a problem that's been apparent for years.
"From my own experience — this could get me in trouble — I think every single school district in the nation has at least one perpetrator. At least one," says Mary Jo McGrath, a California lawyer who has spent 30 years investigating abuse and misconduct in schools. "It doesn't matter if it's urban or rural or suburban."
One report mandated by Congress estimated that as many as 4.5 million students, out of roughly 50 million in American schools, are subject to sexual misconduct by an employee of a school sometime between kindergarten and 12th grade. That figure includes verbal harassment that's sexual in nature.
Jennah Bramow, one of Lindsey's accusers in Cedar Rapids, Iowa, wonders why there isn't more outrage.
"You're supposed to be able to send your kids to school knowing that they're going to be safe," says Bramow, now 20. While other victims accepted settlement deals and signed confidentiality agreements, she sued her city's schools for failing to protect her and others from Lindsey — and won. Only then was Lindsey's teaching license finally revoked.
As an 8-year-old elementary-school student, Bramow told how Lindsey forced her hand on what she called his "pee-pee."
"How did you know it was his pee-pee?" an interviewer at St. Luke's Child Protection Center in Cedar Rapids asked Jennah in a videotape, taken in 1995.
"'Cause I felt something?" said Jennah, then a fidgety girl with long, dark hair.
"How did it feel?" the investigator asked.
"Bumpy," Jennah replied. She drew a picture that showed how Lindsey made her touch him on the zipper area of his pants.
Lindsey, now 68, refused multiple requests for an interview. "It never occurs to you people that some people don't want their past opened back up," he said when an AP reporter approached him at his home outside Cedar Rapids and asked questions.
That past, according to evidence presented in the Bramow's civil case, included accusations from students and parents along with reprimands from principals that were filed away, explained away and ultimately ignored until 1995, when accusations from Bramow and two other girls forced his early retirement. Even then, he kept his teaching license until the Bramows took the case public and filed a complaint with the state.
Like Lindsey, the perpetrators that the AP found are everyday educators — teachers, school psychologists, principals and superintendents among them. They're often popular and recognized for excellence and, in nearly nine out of 10 cases, they're male. While some abused students in school, others were cited for sexual misconduct after hours that didn't necessarily involve a kid from their classes, such as viewing or distributing child pornography.
They include:
_ Joseph E. Hayes, a former principal in East St. Louis, Ill. DNA evidence in a civil case determined that he impregnated a 14-year-old student. Never charged criminally, his license was suspended in 2003. He has ignored an order to surrender it permanently.
_ Donald M. Landrum, a high school teacher in Polk County, N.C. His bosses warned him not to meet with female students behind closed doors. They put a glass window in his office door, but Landrum papered over it. Police later found pornography and condoms in his office and alleged that he was about to have sex with a female student. His license was revoked in 2005.
_ Rebecca A. Boicelli, a former teacher in Redwood City, Calif. She conceived a child with a 16-year-old former student then went on maternity leave in 2004 while police investigated. She was hired to teach in a nearby school district; board members said police hadn't told them about the investigation.
The overwhelming majority of cases the AP examined involved teachers in public schools. Private school teachers rarely turn up because many are not required to have a teaching license and, even when they have one, disciplinary actions are typically handled within the school.
Two of the nation's major teachers unions, the American Federation of Teachers and the National Education Association, each denounced sex abuse while emphasizing that educators' rights also must be taken into account.
"Students must be protected from sexual predators and abuse, and teachers must be protected from false accusations," said NEA President Reg Weaver, who refused to be interviewed and instead released a two-paragraph statement.
Kathy Buzad of the AFT said that "if there's one incident of sexual misconduct between a teacher and a student that's one too many."
The United States has grown more sympathetic to victims of sex abuse over recent decades, particularly when it comes to young people. Laws that protect children from abusers bear the names of young victims. Police have made pursuing Internet predators a priority. People convicted of abuse typically face tough sentences and registry as sex offenders.
Even so, sexually abusive teachers continue to take advantage, and there are several reasons why.
For one, many Americans deny the problem, and even treat the abuse with misplaced fascination. Popular media reports trumpet relationships between attractive female teachers and male students.
"It's dealt with in a salacious manner with late-night comedians saying 'What 14-year-old boy wouldn't want to have sex with his teacher?' It trivializes the whole issue," says Robert Shoop, a professor of educational administration at Kansas State University who has written a book aimed at helping school districts identify and deal with sexual misconduct.
"In other cases, it's reported as if this is some deviant who crawled into the school district — 'and now that they're gone, everything's OK.' But it's much more prevalent than people would think."
The AP investigation found efforts to stop individual offenders but, overall, a deeply entrenched resistance toward recognizing and fighting abuse. It starts in school hallways, where fellow teachers look away or feel powerless to help. School administrators make behind-the-scenes deals to avoid lawsuits and other trouble. And in state capitals and Congress, lawmakers shy from tough state punishments or any cohesive national policy for fear of disparaging a vital profession.
That only enables rogue teachers, and puts kids who aren't likely to be believed in a tough spot.
In case after case the AP examined, accusations of inappropriate behavior were dismissed. One girl in Mansfield, Ohio, complained about a sexual assault by teacher Donald Coots and got expelled. It was only when a second girl, years later, brought a similar complaint against the same teacher that he was punished.
And that second girl also was ostracized by the school community and ultimately left town.
Unless there's a videotape of a teacher involved with a child, everyone wants to believe the authority figure, says Wayne Promisel, a retired Virginia detective who has investigated many sex abuse cases.
He and others who track the problem reiterated one point repeatedly during the AP investigation: Very few abusers get caught.
They point to several academic studies estimating that only about one in 10 victimized children report sexual abuse of any kind to someone who can do something about it.
Teachers, administrators and even parents frequently don't, or won't, recognize the signs that a crime is taking place.
"They can't see what's in front of their face. Not unlike a kid in an alcoholic family, who'll say 'My family is great,'" says McGrath, the California lawyer and investigator who now trains entire school systems how to recognize what she calls the unmistakable "red flags" of misconduct.
In Hamburg, Pa., in 2002, those "red flags" should have been clear. A student skipped classes every day to spend time with one teacher. He gave her gifts and rides in his car. She sat on his lap. The bond ran so deep that the student got chastised repeatedly — even suspended once for being late and absent so often. But there were no questions for the teacher.
Heather Kline was 12, a girl with a broad smile and blond hair pulled back tight. Teacher Troy Mansfield had cultivated her since she was in his third-grade class.
"Kids, like, idolized me because they thought I was, like, cool because he paid more attention to me," says Kline, now 18, sitting at her mother's kitchen table, sorting through a file of old poems and cards from Mansfield. "I was just like really comfortable. I could tell him anything."
He never pushed her, just raised the stakes, bit by bit — a comment about how good she looked, a gift, a hug.
She was sure she was in love.
By winter of seventh grade, he was sneaking her off in his car for an hour of sex, dropping in on her weekly baby-sitting duties, e-mailing about what clothes she should wear, about his sexual fantasies, about marriage and children.
Mansfield finally got caught by the girl's mother, and his own words convicted him. At his criminal trial in 2004, Heather read his e-mails and instant messages aloud, from declarations of true love to explicit references to past sex. He's serving up to 31 years in state prison.
The growing use of e-mails and text messages is leaving a trail that investigators and prosecutors can use to prove an intimate relationship when other evidence is hard to find.
Even then, many in the community find it difficult to accept that a predator is in their midst. When these cases break, defendants often portray the students as seducers or false accusers. However, every investigator questioned said that is largely a misconception.
"I've been involved in several hundred investigations," says Martin Bates, an assistant superintendent in a Salt Lake City school district. "I think I've seen that just a couple of times ... where a teacher is being pursued by a student."
Too often, problem teachers are allowed to leave quietly. That can mean future abuse for another student and another school district.
"They might deal with it internally, suspending the person or having the person move on. So their license is never investigated," says Charol Shakeshaft, a leading expert in teacher sex abuse who heads the educational leadership department at Virginia Commonwealth University.
It's a dynamic so common it has its own nicknames — "passing the trash" or the "mobile molester."
Laws in several states require that even an allegation of sexual misconduct be reported to the state departments that oversee teacher licenses. But there's no consistent enforcement, so such laws are easy to ignore.
School officials fear public embarrassment as much as the perpetrators do, Shakeshaft says. They want to avoid the fallout from going up against a popular teacher. They also don't want to get sued by teachers or victims, and they don't want to face a challenge from a strong union.
In the Iowa case, Lindsey agreed to leave without fighting when his bosses kept the reason for his departure confidential. The decades' worth of allegations against him would have stayed secret, if not for Bramow.
Across the country, such deals and lack of information-sharing allow abusive teachers to jump state lines, even when one school does put a stop to the abuse.
While some schools and states have been aggressive about investigating problem teachers and publicizing it when they're found, others were hesitant to share details of cases with the AP — Alabama and Mississippi among the more resistant. Maine, the only state that gave the AP no disciplinary information, has a law that keeps offending teachers' cases secret.
Meanwhile, the reasons given for punishing hundreds of educators, including many in California, were so vague there was no way to tell why they'd been punished, until further investigation by AP reporters revealed it was sexual misconduct.
And in Hawaii, no educators were disciplined by the state in the five years the AP examined, even though some teachers there were serving sentences for various sex crimes during that time. They technically remained teachers, even behind bars.
Elsewhere, there have been fitful steps toward catching errant teachers that may be having some effect. The AP found the number of state actions against sexually abusive teachers rose steadily, to a high of 649 in 2005.
More states now require background checks on teachers, fingerprinting and mandatory reporting of abuse, though there are still loopholes and a lack of coordination among districts and states.
U.S. Supreme Court rulings in the last 20 years on civil rights and sex discrimination have opened schools up to potentially huge financial punishments for abuses, which has driven some schools to act.
And the National Association of State Directors of Teacher Education and Certification keeps a list of educators who've been punished for any reason, but only shares the names among state agencies.
The uncoordinated system that's developed means some teachers still fall through the cracks. Aaron M. Brevik is a case in point.
Brevik was a teacher at an elementary school in Warren, Mich., until he was accused of using a camera hidden in a gym bag to secretly film boys in locker rooms and showers. He also faced charges that he recorded himself molesting a boy while the child slept.
Found guilty of criminal sexual conduct, Brevik is now serving a five- to 20-year prison sentence and lost his Michigan license in 2005.
What Michigan officials apparently didn't know when they hired him was that Brevik's teaching license in Minnesota had been permanently suspended in 2001 after he allegedly invited two male minors to stay with him in a hotel room. He was principal of an elementary school in southeastern Minnesota at the time.
"I tell you what, they never go away. They just blend a little better," says Steve Janosko, a prosecutor in Ocean County, N.J., who handled the case of a former high school teacher and football coach, Nicholas J. Arminio.
Arminio surrendered his New Jersey teaching license in 1994 after two female students separately accused him of inappropriate touching. The state of Maryland didn't know that when he applied for teaching credentials and took a job at a high school in Baltimore County. He eventually resigned and lost that license, too.
Even so, until this month, he was coaching football at another Baltimore County high school in a job that does not require a teaching license. After the AP started asking questions, he was fired.
Victims also face consequences when teachers are punished.
In Pennsylvania, after news of teacher Troy Mansfield's arrest hit, girls called Kline, his 12-year-old victim, a "slut" to her face. A teacher called her a "vixen." Friends stopped talking to her. Kids no longer sat with her at lunch.
Her abuser, meanwhile, had been a popular teacher and football coach.
So, between rumors that she was pregnant or doing drugs and her own panic attacks and depression, Kline bounced between schools. At 16, she ran away to Nashville.
"I didn't have my childhood," says Kline, who's back home now, working at a grocery cash register and hoping to get her GED so she can go to nursing school. "He had me so matured at so young.
"I remember going from little baby dolls to just being an adult."
The courts dealt her a final insult. A federal judge dismissed her civil suit against the school, saying administrators had no obligation to protect her from a predatory teacher since officials were unaware of the abuse, despite what the court called widespread "unsubstantiated rumors" in the school. The family is appealing.
In Iowa, the state Supreme Court made the opposite ruling in the Bramow case, deciding she and her parents could sue the Cedar Rapids schools for failing to stop Lindsey.
Bramow, now a young mother who waits tables for a living, won a $20,000 judgment. But Lindsey was never criminally charged due to what the former county prosecutor deemed insufficient evidence.
Arthur Sensor, the former superintendent in Oelwein, Iowa, who vividly recalls pressuring Lindsey to quit on Feb. 18, 1964, regrets that he didn't do more to stop him back then.
Now, he says, he'd call the police.
"He promised me he wouldn't do it again — that he had learned. And he was a young man, a beginning teacher, had a young wife, a young child," Sensor, now 86 years old, said during testimony at the Bramows' civil trial.
"I wanted to believe him, and I did."
John Parsons, special projects manager for the AP's News Research Center, contributed to this story.
[Kids in programs have even less protection then these kids. Programs have less safe guards then this. What the hell!?!? I'm sorry I can't offer anything intelligent, I'm just so pissed.]
-
I have to disagree; I think this further demonstrates that the kids are much safer in a TBS environment vs. the public sector.
So much for licensing, accreditation and regulation. I think the further the private schools can distance themselves from the public school model (and the regulations that go with them) the better off the kids will be.
...
-
This isn't the same guy. Did the old Who get fired or something?
-
How can you say that?
The overwhelming majority of cases the AP examined involved teachers in public schools. Private school teachers rarely turn up because many are not required to have a teaching license and, even when they have one, disciplinary actions are typically handled within the school.
Programs don't even have the level of scrutiny the public schools have, they don't have any governmental oversight. Workers don't need any type of license to work as staff. The program kids are also much more vulnerable then the public school kids. They are already labeled as lairs and manipulators, they don't have parents to protect them, and they live in an environment totally controlled by the abuser. All of the issues cited in this piece as conditions that allow for these types of crimes, no frame work for the sharing of information, no consistent reporting requirements, very few criminal prosecutions, victims not being believed, and abusers being allowed to go on to other schools... exist en masse within the troubled teen industry. To say that kids are safer in program is an exercise in absurdity.
-
Programs don't even have the level of scrutiny the public schools have, they don't have any governmental oversight. Workers don't need any type of license to work as staff.
That’s the point, oversight and license doesn’t protect these kids. They protect the teachers and guarantee them jobs thru tenure, Teachers unions, prolonging the abusers stay in the class room…they don’t care about the kids.
In the private sector, the teacher is gone in a heartbeat, no unions or tenure to deal with, they are history.
The program kids are also much more vulnerable then the public school kids.
No, just the opposite, they are in a therapeutic environment where they are encouraged to speak out. Many of the kids are seeing therapists on a weekly basis and would feel more than comfortable speaking about a staff member who was potentially abusing them… the public school system doesn’t have this layer of protection. This is why the teachers can get away with it.
They are already labeled as lairs and manipulators, they don't have parents to protect them, and they live in an environment totally controlled by the abuser.
Where were the parents for the 2,500 kids who were molested by their teachers over the last 5 years in the public school system? Most were working, they cant protect their kids at school.
All of the issues cited in this piece as conditions that allow for these types of crimes, no frame work for the sharing of information, no consistent reporting requirements, very few criminal prosecutions, victims not being believed, and abusers being allowed to go on to other schools... exist en masse within the troubled teen industry.
None of this works in the public sector, the teachers move around and they stick together, reporting sytems are fine if the child feels comfortable talking to another teacher about it, but they typically don’t, plus reporting systems are designed to be reactive (meaning the abuse has already occurred when activated). In a TBS many of the staff are closer in age to the kids and can relate better which facilitates a better and more open relationship. Many of these kids find a staff who they can confide in… and like I mentioned above many have a therapist that they see, who consults with the child’s therapist at home. This is a highly proactive approach and is designed to protect the children.
My daughter became friendly with a female staff member who was not part of her peer group and became a good confidante for her and eventually another conduit in the communication link back home.
To say that kids are safer in program is an exercise in absurdity.
You should probably rethink your statement or maybe you are referring to the state run boot camps and the such. TBS’s have always proven to be a highly safe alternative. I mean don’t get me wrong, no system is full proof, there is always going to be people who slip thru.
...
-
The above is a message paid for by the Aspen Education Group (http://http://www.aspeneducation.info) and the Department of Counterfactuality.
-
Who that is BS and anyone that can read knows it.
-
Who that is BS and anyone that can read knows it.
Honzo, it isnt BS. I have experience with the public school system, wilderness and the Therapeutic industry via Therapeutic boarding schools. The private sector doesnt have a high tolerance for teachers abusing kids like the public sector does with their teachers unions and tenure programs which are designed to protect teachers who dont produce or are having personal issues, etc.
The public school system isnt designed to protect the child, it is designed to protect the teachers' jobs. The kids are rarely discussed in union negotiations.
Where in the private sector a letter is sent in by a parent and the matter is resolved quickly, other parents are notified of the problem and how it is being resloved... no unions or tenure to deal with.
TBS is a safer enviornment by design.
-
Nope, definitely not the same guy.
Here, let's use this one- all of it fact, because you can't make this shit up- on NewWho and see what happens.
THIS is what happens to your "protected" child, folks!
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t= ... c&start=60 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=15260&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=60)
There were more kids who were dangers to themselves. I honestly think ASR is very lucky in that no one has succeeded in committing suicide. I can tell you first hand that for someone with major depression ASR could drive you past breaking point easily. It seemed like they pick and chose who they took seriously about being suicidal. I was not taken seriously, and had my roommate not been in the room one day, I may well have taken my life. I do not say that to evoke pity or anything else like that, and I was not using it to "manipulate" ( a favorite ASR term)
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t= ... c&start=60 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=15260&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=60)
Three Springs Waygookin wrote:
1) What is self-study?
2) Describe this Escorting more please?
3) Why was a student doing the escorting of a self-harming/suicidal resident and not a staff member?
A self study was the worst of the three major consequences. (reflection, challenge, self study). You had work projects, all free time was spent at your table, facing the wall. Lots of writing assignments. Loss of all privileges. Standing during all meetings. You most likely had strict bans
Basically I had to take her back to the dorm and be with her while she gathered up her things and changed, etc. I don't remember if she showered or not. I was basically there to make sure she didn't attempt again.
I don't know why they had me do it. I was "trusted" at that point, and honestly... probably a better choice than some of the staff.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t= ... r&start=15 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=2826&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=asr&start=15)
yes, they did. to a large degree. Dean Kent (the staff mentioned in the article) was gone by the time i had arrived. (he was there in 1997, and i got to ASR in Cummington, MA on January 5th of 1998) i had heard from other students about Dean, that he was a really nice guy but fired b/c he'd called DSS on them. Brett Carey was still the Dean of Student Life when i arrived, and his wife Lisa also helped in the fitness department & was pregnant when i first arrived. They had 2 other daughters, Madison & Carly. The whole thought was a bit frightening, because when we had the 2 hour group "therapy" sessions 2 times a week, they were harsh and abusive to say the least. All of us students would be split into 2 groups, and we'd be rounded up in a circle to get screamed at, belittled and dehumanized. They called it "confrontational", although it was more like verbal abuse and intentional slaughtering.
i was very afraid while i was there, as a student with an extensive sexual abuse history involving rape & incest, i was constantly the target of this slaughtering, esp. b/c i was overweight at the time. needless to say, i left ASR with anorexia some 19 months later.
Brett & other students were all allowed to scream vulgarities at you, called you a "fat bitch, slut," and all. at the age of 15 i learned the word "dildo" while playing scrabble with Brett. One of my roomates claimed that Brett had forced her into sexual operations.
Most of all, it was excusable for students to haze each other.
It was almost looked at as funny. One Staff named Kristen Merhoff gave me funny looks and made sarcastic and patronizing comments when i'd opened up to her about my eating disorder.
Later on, a staff named Amy Robichaud would scream at me for ruining my life, pushing everyone away, talking about how i was a disasterous person, unworthy of being loved. To say the least, she was an abusive person, much alike a person in the throws of an addiction like alchoholism & drug addictions, both of which she admittedly had. There was a great deal of favoritism there, even staff who seemed to want to gain the approval of certain students.
The labor & sleep deprivation that was mentioned in the article is most likely in reference to the "Lifesteps". These were so called "workshops" it was mandatory for all students to attend. Staff and students would be expected to open up there deepest and most unknown
secrets for the sake of "growing". It's true, there was little sleeping allowed & often i myself left feeling shamed & ridiculed.
i was one of the main targets in that school the entire time i was there, a target of hazing & was even blamed for a student breaking into the med office and comsuming large quantities of my prescriptions. For the first 5 months i was there, you could litterally leave, go smoke 1/2 a pack of cigarettes, drop a couple tabs of acid, take like 5 hits off a joint come back & they wouldn't even realize it.
ASR is, to say the least, a very very fucked up place. i have several more things to say, but this whole thing would take eons.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t= ... r&start=30 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=2826&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=asr&start=30)
I am a former student at ASR. I was in the first peer group, 97-98. My experience there haunts me to this day. I have read many articles that refer to the "old staff" and "new staff". I cannot speak for the way ASR is run now, being 2004, but I can speak for how it was run in 97 and 98. Let me start by saying that I am not an angry, defiant kid who is trying to start trouble for ASR. I have graduated high school and am about to graduate college and enter law school. I don't get into trouble, I am a productive member of society, and want people to know the truth. We were badgered, belittled, sworn at, made to stay up all night during "life steps" and given only small rations of food, had all calls to our parents monitored by staff and had the phone hung up on us if we tried to complain to our parents about these things, scrutinized and humiliated on a daily basis. Our mail was read, staff lost their voices by yelling so loudly at us, I personally was called a "slut", a rich little Daddysgirl, a doormat, told my dad tried to buy my love with money, made to discuss personal sexual and private experiences in group sessions with other peers, made to write a ten page paper by hand about what my "issues" were, and if the staff didn't like it, I started over ( this was because I was too close to my friend there, and they put us on bans so we couldn't talk to each other). People, whomever wants to hear specific stories about all of these things, I would be more than happy to share with you!!! email me at gilligansisland636@hotmail.com (http://mailto:gilligansisland636@hotmail.com) i bet i can help you get her out of there
I also graduated from ASR very recently on August the 6th. And I can tell you right now that any kid who complained, their parents were manipulated right out of believing them. There was extreme emotional abuse there, and the only reason anyone's behavior was modified was because they were scared shitless of staying there longer or going to a worse program. We were so scared, your own friends turned against you and you couldnt trust them. The group sessions were awful. One of my friends who had issues with sleeping around was in group and the counselor in the room told her that she might as well keep a mattress tied to her back. Daily, I heard awful things about myself and everyday I was just so sad. Places like this are awful and they need to be stopped. ASR isnt even the worst of them but they all need to go.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t= ... r&start=60 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=2826&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=asr&start=60)
I am a an ASR graduate. I graduated in October of 03. At the end of the program I believed that ASR had done a lot for me. Looking back I am shocked that I ever thought that. I was made to turn against my friends and turn them in for the slightest rule breaking (for example listening to music). In group we were often degraded and yelled at, supposedly to make us better. Several times I was suicidal and instead of worrying they told me I was lying and being manipulative. In one group eveyone was allowed to go around and say their judgements against everyone else things like "youre a fat slut". That group was horrible. You were scared into being good and behaving. I'm not sure why I thought this place was so great, I feel as if I was brainwashed in a way.
The wilderness experience was horrible. I spent over 40 days in the outdoors being punished for any little thing we did wrong. My first day I had to run 20 minutes and when I stopped the counselers screamed at me and when i vomited they didnt care. just told me i shouldt have drank so muich water.
-
The above is a message paid for by the Aspen Education Group (http://http://www.aspeneducation.info) and the Department of Counterfactuality.
:rofl: :rofl:
-
Hey, OldWho:
Sucks losing your job, doesn't it? Was it a work-at-home deal or did they give you an office?
All those posts and then they just dump you on your ass for this crackhead who doesn't even know your character's relationship to the locals.
My advice: Drop dime on those faggots. "Hi, I'm the guy who made thousands of posts defending programs, and they paid me ___" would do just fine. Maybe if you had a copy of their customer list you could do something even more fine. :) Oh, I'm sure you signed some meaningless confidentiality agreement, but seriously, what are they going to do about it, sue you over it in public, open court? :rofl:
C'mon, OldWho- you've got to be pissed off at this loser (he doesn't hold a candle to you!) and you know damn well there's something to be said for revenge. Let's see some ass kicking.
-
The above is a message paid for by the Aspen Education Group (http://http://www.aspeneducation.info) and the Department of Counterfactuality.
Now thats funny!!
-
Just speaking from my own personal experiences, there was a lot of supervision when it came to the classroom in my RTC's. We never had any problems between students and teachers. Security was so tight, that students couldn't even get away with kissing another student.
Unfortunately, I do believe that kids that attend public schools have more of a chance of being molested by their teachers. Especially since most parents work, and don't feel like their 12+ year olds need to have someone at home waiting for them when they get out of school. Most parents get home around 5 or even later. There is a few hours where anything can happen.
I cannot say with a 100% certainty that there are not some perverts working at these RTC's, and they don't have their twisted fantasies going on within their heads. But, it's really difficult to get away with inappropriate behavior when these students are on such a tight schedule, and are always being accounted for.
-
You mean like licking students (http://http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=5958)?
Or repeatedly forcing them to disclose horrors, and then screaming at them that they're lying and manipulating if they don't?
Or extra-judicially incarcerating them and subjecting them to a humiliating mindfuck with the idea that somehow they'll come out less fucked up than they went in?This is the biggest, most ludicrous fantasy of them all. Anyone still holding it at this point should probably just be killed outright.
-
See, now I believe its that insular and secluded society that breeds and allows for the cover-ups of what happens. Kids are so scared or awed by these supposed gurus that are 'saving their lives' that they trust them. The parents even more. More than public school teachers at least. Afterall, isn't part of the parents who use these shitholes claim? That they're looking for a place where there is more supervision than if the kids are in public school? Wouldn't that imply that things would be more secure and safe in TBS/RTCs? Public schools don't have complete control over kids 24/7 like these places do. Public schools don't have the influence over what kids think (not to the degree that TBSs do). Public schools don't tell kids that they'll DIE without them. Public schools don't break these kids down into the most vulnerable of states making them ripe for predators.
Pedos like these close-knit little societies. Especially the ones that value program loyalty over the kids well-being. They know that the programs will more than likely aid and assist in a cover up for fear of bad publicity. Witness Larry Dubinsky at Hyde.
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=15689 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=15689)
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=22969 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=22969)
Fear, isolation, humiliation and degredation are breeding grounds for these creeps and dangerous in general to the kids.
-
Now if you want to talk about out of the classrooms, and programs as a whole....we can do that too.
I will tell you that during my 4 1/2 years in placement there were 2 incidents that were inappropriate (of a sexual nature). I can tell you that 1 of the male houseparents was fired immediately. The other incident, was never truly resolved.
But, right before I was placed in my first program, I had a problem with a soccer coach of mine. He called me at my house one night, and started saying sick sexual things to me, he threatened if I said anything he would make sure I would be made a fool of. I was 11 mind you. I never said a word to my parents, and continued to play on the same team, with that same coach.
My point is, this type of behavior can happen anywhere, at any time. The programs, and schools (at least the ones I attended, even WWASPS) fired staff for this type of inappropriate behavior. So, I am really not sure what the argument is here folks?
This kind of stuff can happen anywhere. I hate to say this, I really, really do......but, there is less of a chance of it happening in a RTC as opposed to a Public School.
-
See, now I believe its that insular and secluded society that breeds and allows for the cover-ups of what happens. Kids are so scared or awed by these supposed gurus that are 'saving their lives' that they trust them. The parents even more. More than public school teachers at least. Afterall, isn't part of the parents who use these shitholes claim? That they're looking for a place where there is more supervision than if the kids are in public school? Wouldn't that imply that things would be more secure and safe in TBS/RTCs? Public schools don't have complete control over kids 24/7 like these places do. Public schools don't have the influence over what kids think (not to the degree that TBSs do). Public schools don't tell kids that they'll DIE without them. Public schools don't break these kids down into the most vulnerable of states making them ripe for predators.
Pedos like these close-knit little societies. Especially the ones that value program loyalty over the kids well-being. They know that the programs will more than likely aid and assist in a cover up for fear of bad publicity. Witness Larry Dubinsky at Hyde.
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=15689 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=15689)
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=22969 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=22969)
Fear, isolation, humiliation and degredation are breeding grounds for these creeps and dangerous in general to the kids.
I don’t agree with your entire post, but we agree in the area that kids are safer in TBS since they have 24/7 supervision, are on a tight schedule (as CCM mentioned), TBS’s have staff which are closer in age than most public schools, in most cases a therapist who they can confide in and in turn reports back to a therapist at home. There is a much higher level of supervision than in Public school.
In the public schools the teachers tend to band together, protect tenure…they have created unions to protect themselves (not the kids), so the Pedos (as you call them) can hang on longer and then just move to another State when exposed.
The private sector has no tolerance, no unions or tenure to deal with…the person is gone in a heartbeat.
...
-
Just speaking from my own personal experiences, there was a lot of supervision when it came to the classroom in my RTC's. We never had any problems between students and teachers. Security was so tight, that students couldn't even get away with kissing another student.
Unfortunately, I do believe that kids that attend public schools have more of a chance of being molested by their teachers. Especially since most parents work, and don't feel like their 12+ year olds need to have someone at home waiting for them when they get out of school. Most parents get home around 5 or even later. There is a few hours where anything can happen.
I cannot say with a 100% certainty that there are not some perverts working at these RTC's, and they don't have their twisted fantasies going on within their heads. But, it's really difficult to get away with inappropriate behavior when these students are on such a tight schedule, and are always being accounted for.
It not so much about teachers in programs, but the staff in general. Pedos find ways to get to their victims and we know programs sweep things under the rug to avoid "problems". Public school teachers can lose their license and that seems to be one of the goals set for ending their abuse. But programs have no such thing, staff are not licensed at all. The cracks in the public school system exist as massive canyons in the troubled teen industry. Yeah kids are supervised... by their abuser!!! The whole grooming process would be very affective in programs, where intimate disclosers, rewards for doing things without question, and punishment for resisting is the norm.
-
I don’t agree with your entire post, but we agree in the area that kids are safer in TBS since they have 24/7 supervision, are on a tight schedule (as CCM mentioned),
Don't put words in my mouth you fucking moron. I never said kids are safer in a TBS. I believe the exact opposite is true and you know it.
TBS’s have staff which are closer in age than most public schools, in most cases a therapist who they can confide in and in turn reports back to a therapist at home. There is a much higher level of supervision than in Public school.
And yet kids are still continuing to come out far more damaged than before they went in.
In the public schools the teachers tend to band together, protect tenure…they have created unions to protect themselves (not the kids), so the Pedos (as you call them) can hang on longer and then just move to another State when exposed.
That's precisely what happens in these closed, insular worlds that the TBSs create. No one wants the bad publicity to hurt the 'school' so they cover it up. As in the case of Dubinsky at Hyde that I pointed out.
The private sector has no tolerance, no unions or tenure to deal with…the person is gone in a heartbeat.
...
Bullshit Bullshit Bullshit Bullshit Bullshit Bullshit Bullshit Bullshit Bullshit Bullshit
-
See, now I believe its that insular and secluded society that breeds and allows for the cover-ups of what happens. Kids are so scared or awed by these supposed gurus that are 'saving their lives' that they trust them. The parents even more. More than public school teachers at least. Afterall, isn't part of the parents who use these shitholes claim? That they're looking for a place where there is more supervision than if the kids are in public school? Wouldn't that imply that things would be more secure and safe in TBS/RTCs? Public schools don't have complete control over kids 24/7 like these places do. Public schools don't have the influence over what kids think (not to the degree that TBSs do). Public schools don't tell kids that they'll DIE without them. Public schools don't break these kids down into the most vulnerable of states making them ripe for predators.
Pedos like these close-knit little societies. Especially the ones that value program loyalty over the kids well-being. They know that the programs will more than likely aid and assist in a cover up for fear of bad publicity. Witness Larry Dubinsky at Hyde.
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=15689 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=15689)
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=22969 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=22969)
Fear, isolation, humiliation and degredation are breeding grounds for these creeps and dangerous in general to the kids.
I don’t agree with your entire post, but we agree in the area that kids are safer in TBS since they have 24/7 supervision, are on a tight schedule (as CCM mentioned), TBS’s have staff which are closer in age than most public schools, in most cases a therapist who they can confide in and in turn reports back to a therapist at home. There is a much higher level of supervision than in Public school.
In the public schools the teachers tend to band together, protect tenure…they have created unions to protect themselves (not the kids), so the Pedos (as you call them) can hang on longer and then just move to another State when exposed.
The private sector has no tolerance, no unions or tenure to deal with…the person is gone in a heartbeat.
...
Bullshit, Natsap hello? Not to mention in the GAO report one of the main points was the fact that often staff who abused kids would just go off to another program, no checks, no accountability, no nothing. Natsap called the folks that sent in stories to Astart "a few noisy complainers" and even the congressional panel was pissed that they could not identify one instance of abuse. The Alderige Academy lied about the father of the dead girl being satisfied with the "out come" to the father whenever he called them posing as a parent, that's not sweeping something under the rug or ignoring the problem?
Confiding in the program is a dangerous option for the kid. A hyde mom told us what happened to her daughter when she tried that. Also don't forget the program views all allegations of abuse as manipulation, c'mon that's programmie 101(something also mentioned by the GAO). Does anyone remember the New Horizons Youth Ministries cases?
As far as age goes, wow! Pedos don't start abusing kids as some midlife crisis. One of the teachers highlighted in the AP story was first accused when he was 20.
CCM while it may be your experienced opinion that kids are safer that doesn't jive with the fact that the reasons outlined in the AP story as allowing for this kind of abuse exist in enormous form within the industry.
-
And yet kids are still continuing to come out far more damaged than before they went in.
You have got to be kidding!! Okay what do we have, 1 or 2 kids who were sexually assaulted in programs in the past 30 years……. We have 2,500 in the past 5 years in the public sector and these don’t include all the cases that go unreported. At least in a TBS many of the children have a trained therapist who they speak to once a week or more.
That's precisely what happens in these closed, insular worlds that the TBSs create. No one wants the bad publicity to hurt the 'school' so they cover it up. As in the case of Dubinsky at Hyde that I pointed out.
Like I stated above, many of the kids have a therapist that they speak to who also keep in contact with the childs therapist at home. If anything was going on it would be reported.
...
-
Your baseless assertions and lack of proof are rather amusing, newwho.
Or, to be more precise, you're just lying and mucking up discussions and being extremely disruptive.
-
This is the public schools' immune system at work.
In some Christian programs, sexual control is part and parcel of it. (Care to top 100% of the students being sexually abused because *that's what they're there for*?) Can you imagine what would happen if a teenage girl was forced to divulge her sexual secrets, as what happens in CEDU-based programs? How about the pedo protected at Hyde? Or maybe the misogynistic insanity of Hephzibah House? They'd all get fired, every single fucking one! You do not do this in the public sector. The parents would go apeshit. You can even get permanently shitcanned and blacklisted from the public school system for so much as writing perverted fiction.
The public schools have a problem with perverts. The programs have no problem with perverts at all.
-
In public schools children can leave.
In programs they can not.
-
Lord who, the gao found thousands of cases of abuse and neglect. You don't think some of those were sexual abuse? The insular world of programs does not report abuse of any kind unless they can profit from it by claiming themselves as the "safe" option(WWASPS and boot camps are bad but we are good, give us your money... I mean kids)
Why is it that the schools listed on NATSAP's site like Elan, Peninsula Village, Provo Canyon School, CF wilderness, do not include the lawsuits and abuse allegations reported by survivors?
-
And yet kids are still continuing to come out far more damaged than before they went in.
You have got to be kidding!! Okay what do we have, 1 or 2 kids who were sexually assaulted in programs in the past 30 years……. We have 2,500 in the past 5 years in the public sector and these don’t include all the cases that go unreported. At least in a TBS many of the children have a trained therapist who they speak to once a week or more.
Then quit putting fucking words in my mouth!!!!! I didn't say all the kids who were damaged were sexually abused. YOU put that bit of spin on what I actually said. Kids are coming out far more damaged psychologically than before they went in. Whether that's because of sexual abuse, forced confessions, the public humiliation or what doesn't really matter. They're being hurt. Badly. Every day. All in the name of 'therapy' and 'help'. STOP HELPING!!!!!!!!
Like I stated above, many of the kids have a therapist that they speak to who also keep in contact with the childs therapist at home. If anything was going on it would be reported.
...
I don't think even you believe that.
-
In public schools children can leave.
In programs they can not.
This ^^^^
Lord who, the gao found thousands of cases of abuse and neglect. You don't think some of those were sexual abuse? The insular world of programs does not report abuse of any kind unless they can profit from it by claiming themselves as the "safe" option(WWASPS and boot camps are bad but we are good, give us your money... I mean kids)
Why is it that the schools listed on NATSAP's site like Elan, Peninsula Village, Provo Canyon School, CF wilderness, do not include the lawsuits and abuse allegations reported by survivors?
And this^^^^^
-
In public schools children can leave.
In programs they can not.
So why all the sexual abuse at schools?
-
Because there are assholes everywhere and they usually are drawn to professions or hobbies that are centered around kids. Boyscouts, Church, School etc. No big mystery really.
-
In public schools children can leave.
In programs they can not.
So why all the sexual abuse at schools?
Read the article....
Then complete this essay question: Do the same conditions cited in the AP article that allow for sex abuse in public schools exist in private schools and programs?
-
And yet kids are still continuing to come out far more damaged than before they went in.
You have got to be kidding!! Okay what do we have, 1 or 2 kids who were sexually assaulted in programs in the past 30 years……. We have 2,500 in the past 5 years in the public sector and these don’t include all the cases that go unreported. At least in a TBS many of the children have a trained therapist who they speak to once a week or more.
Then quit putting fucking words in my mouth!!!!! I didn't say all the kids who were damaged were sexually abused. YOU put that bit of spin on what I actually said. Kids are coming out far more damaged psychologically than before they went in. Whether that's because of sexual abuse, forced confessions, the public humiliation or what doesn't really matter. They're being hurt. Badly. Every day. All in the name of 'therapy' and 'help'. STOP HELPING!!!!!!!!
Like I stated above, many of the kids have a therapist that they speak to who also keep in contact with the childs therapist at home. If anything was going on it would be reported.
...
I don't think even you believe that.
We are talking about sexual abuse, I am not putting words in your mouth .....
I dont think anyone would believe for a minute that a therapist would withold that type of information from the authorities, its what they do and I have met them personally.
-
In public schools children can leave.
In programs they can not.
So why all the sexual abuse at schools?
There really isn't that much. Learn to read statistics.
The VAST MAJORITY of kids in public schools are not sexually abused.
-
I am not putting words in your mouth .....
Oh bite my ass!! You do it all the time.
I dont think anyone would believe for a minute that a therapist would withold that type of information from the authorities, its what they do and I have met them personally.
Belief has nothing to do with it. It happened personally to me and about 5 other people I've met. We all told our "therapists" (to use your term. I wouldnt' consider them therapists of any sort. Maybe you squished the two words together; The Rapist.). They told us to look at where WE were responsible.
Asshole.
-
In public schools children can leave.
In programs they can not.
So why all the sexual abuse at schools?
There really isn't that much. Learn to read statistics.
The VAST MAJORITY of kids in public schools are not sexually abused.
The VAST MAJORITY of kids in private schools and progams are not sexually abused either, and the hard numbers will probably show a significantly lower rate in the private sector as compared to public school.
...
-
Anne, how old are you? I'm just curious?
-
Anne, how old are you? I'm just curious?
Old enough.
-
In public schools children can leave.
In programs they can not.
So why all the sexual abuse at schools?
There really isn't that much. Learn to read statistics.
The VAST MAJORITY of kids in public schools are not sexually abused.
The VAST MAJORITY of kids in private schools and progams are not sexually abused either, and the hard numbers will probably show a significantly lower rate in the private sector as compared to public school.
...
This is after you just said kids should go to unregulated programs to be safe?
Also, private schools and programs are like comparing apples to dog shit. That is not an accurate or meaningful grouping of two completely disparate entities.
Programs are inherently abusive, though not necessarily sexual, depending on the model they use. STRAIGHT and STRAIGHT-like schools are.
And WWASPS's seminars seem to be centered around disclosure, so I'd say they are as well.
-
I thought you were my age, or older? But, you act like you're much younger. So, I just thought I would ask, that's all.
Anyway, I have to agree with Who on this one. Old, or new Who, (LOL) doesn't matter!!!!!
-
You have got to be kidding!! Okay what do we have, 1 or 2 kids who were sexually assaulted in programs in the past 30 years…….
Alright then, let's conduct a small poll, who here was sexually assaulted while in a program within the last 30 years?
Me for one.
-
I thought you were my age, or older? But, you act like you're much younger. So, I just thought I would ask, that's all.
Anyway, I have to agree with Who on this one. Old, or new Who, (LOL) doesn't matter!!!!!
Agree with newwho on what?
-
I thought you were my age, or older? But, you act like you're much younger. So, I just thought I would ask, that's all.
:roll:
Mmmm hmmm. Me too about you. That's why I called you "Little One" for a while. I pegged you for about 21, 22.
Anyway, I have to agree with Who on this one.
Surprise, surprise.
:roll:
-
Does it count if you enjoyed it?!!
-
Hey I'M 22!
:P
-
Someone stole CCM girls password.
Or she's just gone completely insane.
We're at DEFCON2 for aping this thread, fyi. Turn up your speakers ;)
-
Does it count if you enjoyed it?!!
That's a really shitty thing to say, especially in this context.
Fuck you, you little shit.
-
In public schools children can leave.
In programs they can not.
So why all the sexual abuse at schools?
There really isn't that much. Learn to read statistics.
The VAST MAJORITY of kids in public schools are not sexually abused.
The VAST MAJORITY of kids in private schools and progams are not sexually abused either, and the hard numbers will probably show a significantly lower rate in the private sector as compared to public school.
...
I agree with this statement made by Who.
-
Hey I'M 22!
:P
Not that there's anything wrong with that.
:rofl:
I keed, I keed. Some of the best people I know are 22, including my oldest daughter.
(CCM, you haven't been paying attention. I don't know how many times I've bored everyone here with my story, which includes me being the parent of two grown children. That should give you some indication of my approximate age)
-
In public schools children can leave.
In programs they can not.
So why all the sexual abuse at schools?
There really isn't that much. Learn to read statistics.
The VAST MAJORITY of kids in public schools are not sexually abused.
The VAST MAJORITY of kids in private schools and progams are not sexually abused either, and the hard numbers will probably show a significantly lower rate in the private sector as compared to public school.
...
I agree with this statement made by Who.
Ok, that's neither here nor there. MOST kids in programs are not killed either.
But one abused sexually is too many. One killed is too many.
One abused AT ALL is too many. Defending rates of sexual abuse given the inherently bullshit and abusive nature of programs is like defending Tranquility Bay on the merits of having an oceanfront view through their bars and fences.
-
You have got to be kidding!! Okay what do we have, 1 or 2 kids who were sexually assaulted in programs in the past 30 years…….
Alright then, let's conduct a small poll, who here was sexually assaulted while in a program within the last 30 years?
Me for one.
Alright, for those who aren't here to speak for themselves:
J.
J.
C.
G.
A.
E.
These are six other girls that I know were sexually assaulted in the program I was in. I have almost no contact with grads, so no way of knowing how many more there might be.
And here's the thing, not one of these girls reported it to the police. First of all, we weren't allowed to, but more importantly we were convinced that no one would believe us as we were manipulating "druggies".
-
Does it count if you enjoyed it?!!
That's a really shitty thing to say, especially in this context.
Fuck you, you little shit.
I'm totally serious. It was wrong of him, but I didn't mind it since he was HOT! So, does that count?!! There were a few of us in there that thought some of the men around us were very handsome, and flirted hard with them. Does that make it wrong for the male staff since we welcomed it? A lot of people on this board feel like that no matter what any contact with a student is wrong, and I'm not sure I agree with that?
Sorry that my comment upset you Anne. But, do you feel like all advances from staff to student are considered to be sexual abuse?
-
Anne,
I would agree with you that more then likely your story did bore me, and that's why I don't remember it. I didn't need you to repeat your story again, I just asked what your age was, that's all.
-
Students in America's schools are groped. They're raped. They're pursued, seduced and think they're in love.
"Kids, like, idolized me because they thought I was, like, cool because he paid more attention to me," says Kline, now 18, sitting at her mother's kitchen table, sorting through a file of old poems and cards from Mansfield. "I was just like really comfortable. I could tell him anything."
He never pushed her, just raised the stakes, bit by bit — a comment about how good she looked, a gift, a hug.
She was sure she was in love.
CCM are you dumb, or just ignorant?
Addendum: Don't have kids
-
I'm totally serious. It was wrong of him, but I didn't mind it since he was HOT! So, does that count?!! There were a few of us in there that thought some of the men around us were very handsome, and flirted hard with them. Does that make it wrong for the male staff since we welcomed it? A lot of people on this board feel like that no matter what any contact with a student is wrong, and I'm not sure I agree with that?
Sorry that my comment upset you Anne. But, do you feel like all advances from staff to student are considered to be sexual abuse?
I have absolutely no idea how to respond to this. You're serious? Really? Well, at least it explains a lot. Holy shit!
PLEASE tell me you don't have children.
-
I'm totally serious. It was wrong of him, but I didn't mind it since he was HOT! So, does that count?!! There were a few of us in there that thought some of the men around us were very handsome, and flirted hard with them. Does that make it wrong for the male staff since we welcomed it? A lot of people on this board feel like that no matter what any contact with a student is wrong, and I'm not sure I agree with that?
Sorry that my comment upset you Anne. But, do you feel like all advances from staff to student are considered to be sexual abuse?
Let's ask you buddy The Who. Who, what would you think of some of the staff banging your daughter? Would it be OK? I mean, if she thought they were "hot"? That'd be fine with you, right? I mean afterall, she consented. Right? No problem there. No crossing any boundaries. Its just sex between two consenting adul.....wait.....what?
:roll: ::noway::
-
Google search of the ISAC site (http://http://www.google.com/search?q=sexual+abuse+assault+site:isaccorp.org&hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=com.ubuntu:en-US:official&start=0&sa=N)
-
I'm totally serious. It was wrong of him, but I didn't mind it since he was HOT! So, does that count?!! There were a few of us in there that thought some of the men around us were very handsome, and flirted hard with them. Does that make it wrong for the male staff since we welcomed it? A lot of people on this board feel like that no matter what any contact with a student is wrong, and I'm not sure I agree with that?
Sorry that my comment upset you Anne. But, do you feel like all advances from staff to student are considered to be sexual abuse?
Let's ask you buddy The Who. Who, what would you think of some of the staff banging your daughter? Would it be OK? I mean, if she thought they were "hot"? That'd be fine with you, right? I mean afterall, she consented. Right? No problem there. No crossing any boundaries. Its just sex between two consenting adul.....wait.....what?
:roll: ::noway::
From CCM’s vantage point there was no wrong doing because she enjoyed it and therefore would not report it to authorities because she thought it was okay or maybe felt responsible because she might have lead the person on, I don’t know this.
But from the staff’s point of view, he was wrong, and should have gone to jail. He had a responsibility to protect CCM from herself, at the time, because he was in the power position. If after CCM left the school and they were the proper age then it would have been okay.
-
From CCM’s vantage point there was no wrong doing because she enjoyed it and therefore would not report it to authorities because she thought it was okay or maybe felt responsible because she might have lead the person on, I don’t know this.
But from the staff’s point of view, he was wrong, and should have gone to jail. He had a responsibility to protect CCM from herself, at the time, because he was in the power position. If after CCM left the school and they were the proper age then it would have been okay.
Just answer the question!!! How would YOU feel about some staffer banging your daughter while under his care? That OK with you or do you see some line that has been crossed?
-
Or, how about sending the house/dorm father up to the lockup room to paddle girls who by the way are not wearing anything but a t-shirt and undies. He was not attractive, but even if he had been it wouldn't have been ok. CCM are you such a mental midgit that you actually are defending abusers?
-
From CCM’s vantage point there was no wrong doing because she enjoyed it and therefore would not report it to authorities because she thought it was okay or maybe felt responsible because she might have lead the person on, I don’t know this.
But from the staff’s point of view, he was wrong, and should have gone to jail. He had a responsibility to protect CCM from herself, at the time, because he was in the power position. If after CCM left the school and they were the proper age then it would have been okay.
Just answer the question!!! How would YOU feel about some staffer banging your daughter while under his care? That OK with you or do you see some line that has been crossed?
From a fathers perspective, I will definitely have a tough time with that, even after she is married!! Ask your husband how he feels.
-
I didn't say I got fucked! Stop assuming the worst. I am being 100% serious. I never knew one girl during the 4 1/2 years in my 3 different placements that were raped, or got in your words got banged!
I was not the type of girl that kept to herself either. I kept up on all the latest gossip. Besides news like that spreads quick. Us girls would brag about getting these poor guys to cross the line. Sometimes we'd do it just o see them get fired, and laugh about it.
I will however admit there was a few girls that fooled around with staff. But, like I said before, it was always a situation where the girl was wanting it. I never saw it happen the other way to where a male staff was forcing himself upon a student.
If parents are afraid of this happening to their daughters while attending RTC's, then send them to a place where there are no male staff members whatsoever. While you are at it, chain her knees together. Also you have to remember a lot of times these girls are 16/17 and male staff are in their early 20's. That's bound to present problems for a program.
BTW, I don't want kids.
-
Surer seems like CCM Girl is saying that adult staff members have the right to have sex with minors, if the teens "flirt and ask for it, and enjoy it." SICK WOMAN!
-
You all make me sick. This is so fucking twisted, and I cannot believe that you are all sitting around justifying abuse "if the guy is hot enough" and comparing sexual assault to married consensual sex.
Has some bizarre time shift occured and thrown us back to the days when a woman daring to walk alone was "asking for it" and if she didn't fight back hard enough she obviously wanted it to happen?
-
From a fathers perspective, I will definitely have a tough time with that, even after she is married!! Ask your husband how he feels.
You're an asshole! ITS FUCKING WRONG!!! Christ! I can't believe I have to actually EXPLAIN this to you people!!! What the fuck is wrong with you?? Its no different than some shrink fucking his patient. No, I take that back. Its the same, but worse because she's a kid. WRONG WRONG WRONG.
Shit, I'm done. I can't expose myself to this twisted crap anymore. I'm going where the sane people are. Key West. I'll post pics in the thread up in Open Free For All.
Have fun kids.
::seg::
-
Or, how about sending the house/dorm father up to the lockup room to paddle girls who by the way are not wearing anything but a t-shirt and undies. He was not attractive, but even if he had been it wouldn't have been ok. CCM are you such a mental midgit that you actually are defending abusers?
I am not defending abusers! However, I am trying to tell you the other side of it. Sorry if this offends you. I know I am being painfully honest when speaking about this, and it can ruffle some feathers.
-
BTW, I don't want kids.
Thank FSM!!!!
You probably shouldn't expose yourself to small animals either.
-
I am not defending abusers! However, I am trying to tell you the other side of it. Sorry if this offends you. I know I am being painfully honest when speaking about this, and it can ruffle some feathers.
What do you NOT GET about a person in a position of power over another should NEVER flirt, make a pass, fuck, bang, kiss, fondle, poke or otherwise sexually engage him or herself? Why is that so difficult for you to grasp???
-
DEFCON 1.
SPEAKERS TO 11.
THAT IS ALL
-
Key West is beautiful. However you do know a very large portion of the population are HIV positive?
It makes me feel good telling the other side of it. You guys here are all such victims!!!!!
-
(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)
(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)
(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)
(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)
(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)
(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)
(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)
(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)
(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)
(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)
-
From a fathers perspective, I will definitely have a tough time with that, even after she is married!! Ask your husband how he feels.
You're an asshole! ITS FUCKING WRONG!!! Christ! I can't believe I have to actually EXPLAIN this to you people!!! What the fuck is wrong with you?? Its no different than some shrink fucking his patient. No, I take that back. Its the same, but worse because she's a kid. WRONG WRONG WRONG.
Shit, I'm done. I can't expose myself to this twisted crap anymore. I'm going where the sane people are. Key West. I'll post pics in the thread up in Open Free For All.
Have fun kids.
::seg::
You need to calm down a little bit, be nice to people, I think we are all in agreement, just wording it a little differently.
-
I am not defending abusers! However, I am trying to tell you the other side of it. Sorry if this offends you. I know I am being painfully honest when speaking about this, and it can ruffle some feathers.
What do you NOT GET about a person in a position of power over another should NEVER flirt, make a pass, fuck, bang, kiss, fondle, poke or otherwise sexually engage him or herself? Why is that so difficult for you to grasp???
Amen, it's doesn't matter if the child stripped naked and danced around the room. It's wrong, it's rape, it's child abuse and I would hope that the fucker would burn for it. CCM I hope someone has stolen your password and this is not really you, but if it is... SICK SICK SICK go and get some help.
-
(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)
(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)
(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)
(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)
(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)
(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)
(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)
(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)
(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)
(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)
-
Thank you. Please let the screaming ape kill this horror show of a thread.
CCM Girl, get help. No, seriously. Actual fucking help. If you can't see the problem with what you're writing then you shouldn't be here.
TheNewWho, fuck off and die.
-
CCM, You are fucking right! I am such a victim. Want to know the good thing about that? Not really, but I am gonna tell you anyhow. Just in case you have a sudden attack of compassion or something. The good part of being a fucking victim is that I came through it alive. Not alltogether whole, but alive. That is a miracle in and of itself. You want to know the sin that got me placed in a Roloff hell hole? Probably not, but gonna tell you anyway. I could not be sent back to live with my father because he spent years fucking me, which was not welcome either. My mother did not want to be a mom, so she sent me away. Frequently! The Roloff Hell Farm was just the last ditch effort to not have to have a child in her house. Mostly so she could fuck my boyfriend some more with me out of the way, but I digress. I was told upon my arrival that I was at fault in everything that I had been through, and that I was never to speak of any of it ever again. This was their idea of dealing with child abuse. So pardon the fuck right out of me if I find it offensive when you defend the programs.
-
I'm totally serious. It was wrong of him, but I didn't mind it since he was HOT! So, does that count?!! There were a few of us in there that thought some of the men around us were very handsome, and flirted hard with them. Does that make it wrong for the male staff since we welcomed it? A lot of people on this board feel like that no matter what any contact with a student is wrong, and I'm not sure I agree with that?
Sorry that my comment upset you Anne. But, do you feel like all advances from staff to student are considered to be sexual abuse?
You know CCM girl a lot of young women flirt with older men because they see them as "safe" and it is a way of sort of testing their sexuality. This is a relatiely normal part of adolescent development. it is also why a teacher student "relationship" is morally wrong and inherently abusive. The adult is abusing a situation of trust when they allow themself cross that line. it does not have to be what many think of as a "rape" to be abuse. It is as much a violation of trust and an abuse of power. Sexual assault of any sort is about power. In a program like situation the power aspect is particularly relevant because the adult also has the currency of freedom which the child (and 17 year old girls are legally children) badly wants because they have been incarcerated without trial.
-
Does it count if you enjoyed it?!!
That's a really shitty thing to say, especially in this context.
Fuck you, you little shit.
I'm totally serious. It was wrong of him, but I didn't mind it since he was HOT! So, does that count?!! There were a few of us in there that thought some of the men around us were very handsome, and flirted hard with them. Does that make it wrong for the male staff since we welcomed it? A lot of people on this board feel like that no matter what any contact with a student is wrong, and I'm not sure I agree with that?
Sorry that my comment upset you Anne. But, do you feel like all advances from staff to student are considered to be sexual abuse?
What. The. Fuck.
:o :o :o :o :o :o :o
-
Key West is beautiful. However you do know a very large portion of the population are HIV positive?
What the hell does that mean or have to do with anything?
It makes me feel good telling the other side of it. You guys here are all such victims!!!!!
Better a victim than a perpetrator or a pedophile apologist.
-
To a programmie, that is, one posessing the program mindset...
"victim"
vik•tim
a) the state of being for someone before being sent to a program to be treated for abuse
b) someone who complains about being mistreated
c) someone who tries to stop others from being mistreated
d) someone who tries to punish those who mistreat others.
-
Key West is beautiful. However you do know a very large portion of the population are HIV positive?
It makes me feel good telling the other side of it. You guys here are all such victims!!!!!
Looks like you learned well from WWASPS, you'd make a great staff person.
-
Key West is beautiful. However you do know a very large portion of the population are HIV positive?
It makes me feel good telling the other side of it. You guys here are all such victims!!!!!
Looks like you learned well from WWASPS, you'd make a great staff person.
oh, my lord!!
-
Key West is beautiful. However you do know a very large portion of the population are HIV positive?
It makes me feel good telling the other side of it. You guys here are all such victims!!!!!
Ha,Ha,Ha, That has to be the "line of the day".... Thanks CCM
...
-
(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)
(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)
(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)
(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)
(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)
(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)
(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)
(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)
(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)
(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)
-
CCM, Don’t take the attacks too personally. You stepped out of the group think and exercised an opinion that isn’t popular and that doesn’t go down to well here.
You ruined Niles entire week and it will take him days to suppress his need for free thought, which was so nicely buried until you stirred the pot… he needs to get it out this way.
There can only be two types of people on fornits(all programs are bad types) and everyone else has to be a programmie. There are no grey areas because that would spawn intelligent conversation or higher level discussions, god forbid!!!
So suck it up, apologize and say: “All programs are bad, all staff are abusive, I will never step out and express an opinion on my own or encourage independent thinking, even when I am not logged in. If anyone disagrees with me they will be labeled a programmie and I will not engage in any discussions with them, especially if they challenge my position or beliefsâ€
-
(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)
(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)
(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)
(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)
(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)
(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)
(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)
(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)
(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)
(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)
-
Is it realllllllllllly fucking necessary to spam the board with all the fucking pictures. How old are you????? 12 maybe????[/color]
-
All programs are bad, all staff are abusive, I will never step out and express an opinion on my own or encourage independent thinking, even when I am not logged in. If anyone disagrees with me they will be labeled a programmie and I will not engage in any discussions with them, especially if they challenge my position or beliefs.
I also really think that once you feel you have become a victim of some type of abuse you should never try to get past it. Instead, make people feel sorry for you. Use it to your advantage.
-
(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)
(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)
(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)
(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)
(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)
(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)
(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)
(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)
(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)
(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)
-
Okay Niles, so it didn’t work out in Florida. No one expected it would so don’t take it hard, the state sucks.
Pack a bag and move out of the parents house, get any job you can,
you will feel 100 times better… Here do this:
Austin Texas (http://http://www.kiplinger.com/tools/slideshows/slideshow_pop.html?nm=Bestcitiessingle)– it has a Bohemian factor of 135 --- right up your alley, go for it before you become one of your own simians.
Beer, music, tacos and barbeque add up to a laid-back scene in the capital of the Lone Star State.
Young singles who stay out too late can shock their systems awake at Barton Springs Pool,
the city's natural-and naturally chilly -- swimming hole.
-
You guys still haven't figured out that the screaming gorillas are the only acceptable response at this point?
"Sexual abuse is bad" just isn't working here.
-
(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)
(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)
(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)
(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)
(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)
(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)
(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)
(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)
(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)
(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)
-
You guys still haven't figured out that the screaming gorillas are the only acceptable response at this point?
"Sexual abuse is bad" just isn't working here.
Maybe a good response for someone who is 12 who just lost his video game or has been grounded. But there are many of us who prefer to communicate using words. poke around at some of the other threads... mostly words, which creates discussion.
-
(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)
(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)
(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)
(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)
(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)
(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)
(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)
(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)
(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)
(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)
-
Nope, the gorillas are still making more sense than you, Who.
gb/2/ST
-
Now that hairy beast is HOT!!!! You all know what I am talking about when it comes to this issue! Don't play this "I was so taken advantage of" crap!
There were a lot of us (me included) that did prey upon the male staff.
I'm not saying that it wasn't possible some girls were taken advantage of. But, just not it my schools.
-
If only you meant it, but we all know you don't. You know the majority here is antiprogram. You don't have to come in here and be insulted and attacked poor baby, you could go anyplace else, and while you are there whereever there is, FUCK YOURSELF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-
Now that hairy beast is HOT!!!! You all know what I am talking about when it comes to this issue! Don't play this "I was so taken advantage of" crap!
There were a lot of us (me included) that did prey upon the male staff.
I'm not saying that it wasn't possible some girls were taken advantage of. But, just not it my schools.
Well hun you are still in a victims state of mind, you still believe that it was your fault. And yes I know you said nothing sexual happened with you and a staff member, but if it had played out as you said with you coming on to an adult staffer it's obvious you would see it as your fault. The fact is the adult has the power and the responsibility to resist. Just because you as a child had the hots for some adult staff person doesn't absolve him or her from that responsibility and when they cross that line it's rape.
You do know that most pedos are nonviolent right? They groom their victims, seduce, or take advantage of their feelings and naivety or the position of power they hold over their victim.
Just because you hurt and fight like hell does not make you a victim looking for pity, which is what you called the brave people here. It makes you a human being, a survivor.
I don't know why you want to be a bully and I don't know why you are so scared of being a victim, you're not any more. But it's obvious with the way you treat people you view as victims that you hate victims with a passion and I think that's because you hate yourself. But to hell with trying to help you, I'm not going to just let you piss on me or any other survivors here.
If you ever want to talk just pm me, I'll shut up and listen. ::dove::
-
Now that hairy beast is HOT!!!! You all know what I am talking about when it comes to this issue! Don't play this "I was so taken advantage of" crap!
There were a lot of us (me included) that did prey upon the male staff.
I'm not saying that it wasn't possible some girls were taken advantage of. But, just not it my schools.
Hey CCM girl..... I will pretend to be on staff and you can prey on me ::seg::
I think that somebody needs to hit that thing just right to straighten out the way you are thinking. I would almost bet that you use to fingerbang yourself thinking about staff. You probably still do.
You said you weren't taken advantage of because you can't rape a willing sole. I think you are a sex addict.
(http://http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k249/Redeyeddreamer/dirty-old-man.jpg)
-
You know me so well!
-
SHUT YOUR FUCK HOLE CCM CUNT.
-
What a trash thread
-
:rofl: