Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Deborah on October 07, 2007, 11:22:38 PM
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In another thread Mamala asked:
Anyone have any experience or info on this place? Is making a kid sit and write all day with out being able to lay down or have a pillow abusive?
Of course it is. But, it depends on who you ask. Some very strong Mormon ties.
[Jerry] Spanos/Heritage donated to Romney's campaign
http://fundrace.huffingtonpost.com/neig ... rch=Search (http://fundrace.huffingtonpost.com/neighbors.php?type=name&lname=Spanos&fname=Gerald&older=yes&search=Search)
Brother Glen Overton co-founder of HS
http://www.byu.edu/hr/employees/opac/luncheons-2005 (http://www.byu.edu/hr/employees/opac/luncheons-2005)
http://www.byu.edu/hr/files/Glen_Overton.pdf (http://www.byu.edu/hr/files/Glen_Overton.pdf)
Elder Overton audio on "Perfecting the Prodigal"
Wanna get into the head of a Mormon program owner?
Gotta hear this!! :o
http://byubroadcasting.org/familyexpo/d ... dYear=2001 (http://byubroadcasting.org/familyexpo/default.asp?selectedYear=2001)
The kids at HS who accepted Jesus Christ, those who understood and accepted "attonement", did best.
Are parents aware of the religious/mormon aspect of the program.
June 1990
Glen Overton of Heritage School in Provo, Utah, announced a joint venture with Wilderness Academy to provide clinical wilderness survival. Wilderness Academy is changing its name to Aspen Achievement Center and Nancy Groll has moved over from Heritage School in Provo to handle admissions.
http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives ... een01.html (http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives/1990/6/seen01.html)
April 1999
Continuing Property Tax Exemptions
5. Heritage Schools, Parcel No. 17:057:0077
Richard Evans, Jerry Spanos, and Glen Zagg are here to represent Heritage Schools. Commissioner Gardner asked if they are doing things according to the same mission that they always have, school services, rehabilitation, and group therapy. He stated that they are primarily an educational facility that provides mental health and other support services. Commissioner Gardner asked if the students are hired in an internship or as an apprenticeship and leave campus? He, stated that these kids are under the age of 18, the vocational education is strictly part of their education program. We hope that this will help them when they go back to their home community and try to find work employment to help them build some skills. We don't have any connections in the community where there are apprenticeship or placements. Commissioner Gardner said that was one of the major questions that he had. He then asked if they do any kind of off-site wilderness experience with the students. He said no. Everything is done on campus.
Aspen no longer provides wilderness?
With those questions answered Commissioner Gardner made the motion with regard to Item No. 5, Heritage School, Parcel No. 17:0057:0077, that we grant continuing property exempt status. Commissioner Herbert seconded the motion and with no additional comments or discussion it carried with the following vote:
Aye:
Jerry D. Grover
David J. Gardner
Gary R. Herbert
Nay: None
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Apparently, the direct link to Overton's talk isn't working.
Go here
http://mentalhealthlibrary.info/library ... dsbyux.htm (http://mentalhealthlibrary.info/library/code/codelds/codeldsbyu/codeldsbyux.htm)
Select "Perfecting the Prodigal"
On the next page, Select "Continue"
On the next page, Scroll down and Select "2001" in the View Year drop down box
You'll find "Perfecting the Prodigal" about 2/3 down the page. Select the medium you want to use to listen.
If you want to skip the opening song, go to 26.30 ish.
Again, to paraphrase.... the kids who did best at Heritage were those who accepted Jesus Christ, who understood and accepted attonement.
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just cannot get it to work on this computer. ARGH!
i did notice the name brinley. the new osteopath they have at heritage is named derry brinley. he just got off probation (and less than a year later he is at heritage) for bizarre and sick behavior with a former patient. he was still married! of course he had confessed to the church. this is what they bring in there, just because he's a mormon, rather than a medical doctor or someone with a clean record. a sicko himself.
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The options are Windows Media or Real Audio. Do you have either?
It will be rebroadcast on BYU Television
15 Oct @ 4p
23 Oct @ 4a
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Mamala,
I listened to most of the talk for 2001, as well as the 2005 talk that Glen Overton gave. Thank you Deborah for providing all of us with those links. When I listen to him, there isn't anything that screams out, this man is a wolf in sheeps clothing. This man is a cult leader!!!! Nothing could be further from the truth.
I do not attend church except for on Christmas, and Easter. I am not very religious whatsoever. But, I respect those who are. We had church available to us at Heritage. It was not forced on us. In fact, I would say out of the 100 girls that were there at the time I was, maybe 15 of us would attend on Sunday? I attended 4 or 5 times.
The state of Utah is primarily Mormon, and that's no big surprise. They have their beliefs, and there are many people around the world that have their own set of different religious beliefs. What's the big deal?
Some people draw strength from religion, get guidance from religion, and a lot of people find comfort in religion. Why do you think the majority of people around this world identify themselves as belonging to a certain religion? It's really pretty normal. I don't think the Mormon church, and the fact our school was run, and is still primarily run by Mormons posed any real threat to us students! I'm going to say that they are a very family orientated church, and you can't fault them for that. If anything, it maybe helped set a good example for us, and our parents.
I didn't find it to be scary at all! A little weird at first since I came from California, which is a melting pot of religious beliefs. Utah like I said is primarily Mormon. I would say maybe 5% of the girls got baptized while there. Or maybe even less. It wasn't a huge number.
I really don't see what the big deal is here folks? Can someone please explain to me why this is such a huge issue with some of you here?
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Why were you there for 3 1/2 years?
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I would say maybe 5% of the girls got baptized while there. Or maybe even less. It wasn't a huge number.
So, based on Overton's comment... about 5% improve? Those who get 'saved'?
I really don't see what the big deal is here folks? Can someone please explain to me why this is such a huge issue with some of you here?
It's called truth in advertising... transparency about what is actually happening in the program vs what's advertised. I'd venture to guess that the average parent who might select Heritage for their child is under the assumption that they are paying for structure and therapy, as advertised. How many know the program is owned by a mormon? I also guess that none, or very few (other mormons), are told that their child will be brainwashed with Mormon values and encouraged/coerced(?) to accept JC and attone. I can also imagine some would be very angry to find out they were deceived.
If they are running a religious program, that should be disclosed in their propoganda.
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Why were you there for 3 1/2 years?
Well, let's see.....in the 7th grade, I got kicked out of 2 Junior High Schools. One for truancy, fighting, smoking, and getting kicked out of several of my classes for mouthing off. The second school was for fighting. Not just one instance, several.
When I got to Heritage I was a total mess. I needed to be there for at least 2 of those years. I would say I grew quite a bit during that time. The next 1 1/2 years I was still growing, and I was put on transition with 2 different familes where I was allowed to go to Orem High School. I messed up both times, and got sent back.
I honestly think my parents didn't want me back home. I think life was easier, and less problematic without me. You cannot make parents take you home, and with my past history of violence there wasn't a lot of boarding schools that would've taken me. If any?
So, I was sent to Cross Creek Manor for the next 9 months, I was told basically from my therapist that he felt my parents were never going to be taking me home, and that more then likely I was going to be there until I was 18.
So, I took my future into my own hands, and ran away. I stayed a year on my own in St. George, Utah. Then my Aunt and Uncle found me, and brought me into their family in Northern California.
Hope that helps?
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just cannot get it to work on this computer. ARGH!
i did notice the name brinley. the new osteopath they have at heritage is named derry brinley. he just got off probation (and less than a year later he is at heritage) for bizarre and sick behavior with a former patient. he was still married! of course he had confessed to the church. this is what they bring in there, just because he's a mormon, rather than a medical doctor or someone with a clean record. a sicko himself.
Something similar happened with the boy scouts in an article (http://http://www.seattleweekly.com/2007-05-30/news/one-man-s-brutal-encounter-with-sexual-abuse-in-the-mormon-church.php?page=full)I read. After worker/staff scout violently raped a boy the Mormons protected him from prosecution. Apparently many victims were also pressured into forgiving their attackers instead of going to the police. Huge red flag
EDIT: I found the article, they protected the scoutmaster from prosecution, he was later excommunicated for some unknown reason. The article also tells about the trouble others have faced in reporting sex abuse in the Mormon Church.
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he was later excommunicated for some unknown reason.
He didn't share.
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I would say maybe 5% of the girls got baptized while there. Or maybe even less. It wasn't a huge number.
So, based on Overton's comment... about 5% improve? Those who get 'saved'?
I really don't see what the big deal is here folks? Can someone please explain to me why this is such a huge issue with some of you here?
It's called truth in advertising... transparency about what is actually happening in the program vs what's advertised. I'd venture to guess that the average parent who might select Heritage for their child is under the assumption that they are paying for structure and therapy, as advertised. How many know the program is owned by a mormon? I also guess that none, or very few (other mormons), are told that their child will be brainwashed with Mormon values and encouraged/coerced(?) to accept JC and attone. I can also imagine some would be very angry to find out they were deceived.
If they are running a religious program, that should be disclosed in their propoganda.
I use different words I suppose. I don't use the word SAVED! I will say though that I was helped by Heritage.
Truth in advertising? What are they misleading the parents about? I am not clear about that, please explain?!!
The fact they are Mormon? Does that really matter? Treatment is treatment, nobody forced the religion down our throats! Most intelligent adults know that Utah is a State populated, and run mostly by Mormons. That is no big secret! Nobody is brainwashed into becoming a Mormon while there. Don't you think if the parents were concerned, or cared if the school was owned, and operated by Mormons, they could've simply asked?
When you speak of transparency Deborah, should we make all Mormon people in this world disclose the fact they are Mormon? Should we tattoo it across their foreheads?!!! Before they even start up a conversation with anyone in this world they should be made to say I just want to let you know before we engage in any type of conversation that I am a member of the LDS church. Are you kidding me?!!!!!!
The Heritage School is not a program that brainwashes kids into becoming Mormon. It was merely something that was offered to us on Sundays.
Please continue to go out there, and find programs that are abusive, and leave ones alone that are not.
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CCM Girl, what would happen to you psychologically if mamala decided to pull her daughter out?
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Please continue to go out there, and find programs that are abusive, and leave ones alone that are not.
Don't attempt to tell me what to do. I'll post what I find on this, and any other program. People can draw their own conclusions.
Do you see anywhere on Heritage's website any disclosure regarding the kids who do best ARE THOSE WHO ACCEPT JC AND ATTONE????
And, yes, if kids in a program are being subjected to any religion or covert religious beliefs/values this indicates a lack of TRANSPARENCY. Deception at the least, unless there is a disclaimer in their promotional materials.
Perhaps parents would rather NOT spend tens of thousands on the chance their kids will attone. They might want the traditional therapy that is advertised and NO religious influence.
Pennsylvania has a lot of Amish too, but would middle america send their kids to an Amish RTC? Honestly, I don't think the thought ever crosses their minds to ask about religious affiliation/values/influence. They expect an RTC to be science/therapy based, unless otherwise is dislosed.
Given your comments- that you only went to church 4 or 5 times, didn't attone, didn't improve and were sent to another program... might that indicate that Overton's comment is somewhat accurate?
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Out of curiosity..... Are you a mormon??????
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I would say maybe 5% of the girls got baptized while there. Or maybe even less. It wasn't a huge number.
So, based on Overton's comment... about 5% improve? Those who get 'saved'?
I really don't see what the big deal is here folks? Can someone please explain to me why this is such a huge issue with some of you here?
It's called truth in advertising... transparency about what is actually happening in the program vs what's advertised. I'd venture to guess that the average parent who might select Heritage for their child is under the assumption that they are paying for structure and therapy, as advertised. How many know the program is owned by a mormon? I also guess that none, or very few (other mormons), are told that their child will be brainwashed with Mormon values and encouraged/coerced(?) to accept JC and attone. I can also imagine some would be very angry to find out they were deceived.
If they are running a religious program, that should be disclosed in their propoganda.
I use different words I suppose. I don't use the word SAVED! I will say though that I was helped by Heritage.
What she's pointing out is the coincidence of 5% of the kids 'improving' and 5% of the kids being 'saved'. A little heavy on the religion, no?
Truth in advertising? What are they misleading the parents about? I am not clear about that, please explain?!!
They don't advertise that they are heavily religious. they don't disclose that the child's 'improvement' most likely depends on how much religion they accept.
The fact they are Mormon? Does that really matter? Treatment is treatment, nobody forced the religion down our throats!
Its much more subtle than that and you know it.
Most intelligent adults know that Utah is a State populated, and run mostly by Mormons. That is no big secret! Nobody is brainwashed into becoming a Mormon while there. Don't you think if the parents were concerned, or cared if the school was owned, and operated by Mormons, they could've simply asked?
Sure, but why wouldn't that be disclosed by the program in the first place?
When you speak of transparency Deborah, should we make all Mormon people in this world disclose the fact they are Mormon?
When its in this context? Absolutely!!! Shame on you for not demanding it.
The Heritage School is not a program that brainwashes kids into becoming Mormon. It was merely something that was offered to us on Sundays.
Please continue to go out there, and find programs that are abusive, and leave ones alone that are not.
That's what we're doing.
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CCM Girl, what would happen to you psychologically if mamala decided to pull her daughter out?
Nothing?!!! If she feels like she can take her daughter on again, then more power to her! But, since it's been such a short time that her daughter has been there, I would hope that she was not pulling her on the advice of you here. Those of you who are trying to make her feel guilty, that she's some awful parent because she isn't able to help this child of hers on own her own, and for one reason, or another sought help?
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Those of you who are trying to make her feel guilty, that she's some awful parent because she isn't able to help this child of hers on own her own, and for one reason, or another sought help?
Is there a question in there somewhere?
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Out of curiosity..... Are you a mormon??????
Not that it's any of your business, but no I am not! Hey, since you live in Boca, does that make you a jew?!! LOL!!!!!
Next time I am in Delray, I'll make sure and look you up. If Deborah has it her way you'll have JEW tattooed across your forehead in no time at all. But, how on earth will I set you apart from all the other jews out there?
Anyway, I personally could care less what religion anybody on this board, or on this earth here is. What matters most to me is what kind of person you are in your heart.
Unfortunately, a lot of you on here have proven to be total assholes who most of the time like to pretend you're smarter then everyone else.
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Why were you there for 3 1/2 years?
Well, let's see.....in the 7th grade, I got kicked out of 2 Junior High Schools. One for truancy, fighting, smoking, and getting kicked out of several of my classes for mouthing off. The second school was for fighting. Not just one instance, several.
When I got to Heritage I was a total mess. I needed to be there for at least 2 of those years. I would say I grew quite a bit during that time. The next 1 1/2 years I was still growing, and I was put on transition with 2 different familes where I was allowed to go to Orem High School. I messed up both times, and got sent back.
What???? That tells me precisely dick. What was the reasoning they gave for keeping you for 3 1/2 years? What were the therapeutic processes that were employed to help you 'grow'?
I honestly think my parents didn't want me back home. I think life was easier, and less problematic without me. You cannot make parents take you home, and with my past history of violence there wasn't a lot of boarding schools that would've taken me. If any?
So, the solution is to warehouse you? Nice.
So, I was sent to Cross Creek Manor for the next 9 months, I was told basically from my therapist that he felt my parents were never going to be taking me home, and that more then likely I was going to be there until I was 18.
So, I took my future into my own hands, and ran away. I stayed a year on my own in St. George, Utah. Then my Aunt and Uncle found me, and brought me into their family in Northern California.
Ah, I see. An "exit plan" huh?
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Deborah,
I would never attempt to tell you what to do! It's very clear that you know it all. It just proves to me what they say to be true.....you too CAN learn a lot from a dummy!!!!
CCM girl :-)
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Anyway, I personally could care less what religion anybody on this board, or on this earth here is. What matters most to me is what kind of person you are in your heart.
Well aren't you special. Actually, you're not. Most people here could give a flying fuck what religion you or anyone else is. You are too defensive to engage in a discussion on this issue, witnessed by your inability to get past this being religious prejudice.
For the last time.... THIS IS ABOUT TRUTH IN ADVERTISING. POTENTIAL FRAUD. DECEPTION.
If one is going to run a religious based/influenced program, it should be disclosed.
Your opinion doesn't trump the owner's comment. Go listen again. Maybe you'll get it.
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Deborah,
I think we are going to need to enroll you in some Anger Management classes girl! I do hope you have left some hair on that head of yours, and not pulled it all out by now. I'm picturing a few Howard Dean screams going on too!!!!! Really, take it easy Deb!
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Deborah,
I think we are going to need to enroll you in some Anger Management classes girl! I do hope you have left some hair on that head of yours, and not pulled it all out by now. I'm picturing a few Howard Dean screams going on too!!!!! Really, take it easy Deb!
You 'hear' what you want to hear. I resent your evaluation of me. Keep your shade-tree analysis to yourself. It's not welcomed.
I'm not angry. I'm trying to answer the question you keep asking, but can't hear the answer to. FWIW, I won't be wasting anymore time with that. I'm done.
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Wow Deb, you can really dish it out! But, as far as taking it????
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Wow Deb, you can really dish it out! But, as far as taking it????
What? She's as disgusted as I am at a programs survivor that's still so washed they can't see what's right in front of their face.
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Wow Deb, you can really dish it out! But, as far as taking it????
What? She's as disgusted as I am at a programs survivor that's still so washed they can't see what's right in front of their face.
I'm sorry Anne, what program did you say you went to?!! Due me a favor, and stick to what you do know. If that's anything?????
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I would almost bet you are a member of a 12 program where brainwashing continues....... (Just a thought....might not be right...just a hunch)
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Just because a member of a certain religion is involved with something, does not mean that it is church sanctioned. I am a survivor of a Religious Cult Home, and I am against forced religion in any form, but my inlaws are mormon, and I take offense to the whole idea that this place is being ran by the church itself. The mormons are the most profamily group of people you could ever get to know. They are salt of the earth, shirt off their back, good, decent, and kind human beings. I don't want to argue religion, I know that everyone means well here, well almost everyone, some people should keep their amatuer psychoanalysis to themselves, but i digress..... instead of beating the drum that religion might in some way be involved in these homes, talk to the survivors and find out if they felt pressured to become involved with a religion. They baptised me until I thought I would drown at Roloff and that didn't turn me into a fundamental baptist. As for the question did being forced to sit in the same place and write sentences for hours without a pillow, while yes it is a control tactic and therefore abusive, they can be thankful they were allowed to sit as opposed to kneeling on the lenolium for hours. Who ever thought up that torture tactic was not as creative as some of the other homes.
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salt of the earth
Exactly. This phrase sums them up quite nicely. You do know what "salt the land" means, don't you?
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I would almost bet you are a member of a 12 program where brainwashing continues....... (Just a thought....might not be right...just a hunch)
No, I am not. I don't have any addiction problems at the moment. I'm sure I will get attacked by saying this, but whatever! I have always been 100% honest when asked.
I got into a pretty bad horse accident, and injured my back. I was given vicodin which helped me with the pain. It allowed me to go back to work, and make a living without having to ask others for help. I was on it for a few months. The doctors realized that I was becoming addicted, and wouldn't prescribe it to me anymore. So, I found other ways of getting it. The first reason was because I liked the way it made me feel when I was on it. Then after a while there was no pleasure I felt when taking it. However, if I didn't take it, I would go through withdrawls. That felt awful. When I did finally get off of it, I was really sick for almost a month. Night sweats, the chills, I also seemed to get every single cold, and flu virus known to man at once.
So anyway, what I got from all that, was the ability to understand those with addiction problems. I had never in my life been able to imagine what my cousin who was addicted to heroin felt like. Why the hell she kept going back to it, and how come she couldn't stay clean? Well, now I have a better understanding not only for her, but for others struggling with addiction problems.
So, to make a long story short, no, I am not a part of a 12 step program. But, if that's what helps someone with their problems, why should I dismiss it as just being another "fucked up cult"?
If you don't agree with their ways, that's fine. But, for some people it truly helps them. Why wouldn't you want people to get better, get healthy, and start making good decisions?
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For some people it truly hurts them, in regards to AA. Do you say the same for WWASPS? If that's going to cause an argument don't worry about it.
Oh and by the way SSRIs put me through the same kind of withdrawal, never got the bliss though.
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Just because a member of a certain religion is involved with something, does not mean that it is church sanctioned.
Did someone say that?
I am a survivor of a Religious Cult Home, and I am against forced religion in any form, but my inlaws are mormon, and I take offense to the whole idea that this place is being ran by the church itself.
Did someone say that?
The mormons are the most profamily group of people you could ever get to know. They are salt of the earth, shirt off their back, good, decent, and kind human beings.
I'm not talking about your inlaws, I don't know them. They may be decent people.
Actually, in general, Utah/Mormons are not the most pro-family group you could ever know. They have the highest child abuse stats in the nation. They have so many people (mostly unhappy females) on Prozac that they are referred to as the Prozac Capital. The whole ADD shit came out of Utah, so they like to drug their kiddies too. And shall we not forget, giving their teen girls to older family members- poligamy.
You'll find links to that information/stats/data here:
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=17746#17746 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=17746#17746)
My personal opinion, they're right up there with Roloff. For many, it appears that their program is part of their religious mission to 'help' others.
instead of beating the drum that religion might in some way be involved in these homes, talk to the survivors and find out if they felt pressured to become involved with a religion.
Who's beating the drum? The owner stated it. The question- did he disclose it to parents?
What would be really helpful to the flow of discussion is if people would read what was actually written. I provided links to a lecture by the owner of Heritage and his comment that those who did well in his program were those who accepted JC and attonement. THAT is the topic of discussion in this thread, btw. Did you listen to it?
My comment that if religion is part of the program, it should be disclosed is valid. Agree or disagree? That's the only comment relevant to this discussion.
Here's a directive... stop beating the drum that I'm a religious bigot. FYI, I'm not attached to any organized religion, even the non-religions. Haven't found one that make a bit of sense.
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For some people it truly hurts them, in regards to AA. Do you say the same for WWASPS? If that's going to cause an argument don't worry about it.
Oh and by the way SSRIs put me through the same kind of withdrawal, never got the bliss though.
I don't claim to know AA/NA practices. I know that it has helped many people out there though get off drugs, and alcohol. How does AA/NA hurt people? Don't most people make the choice to attend these meetings? I know sometimes people are ordered by the court to go to meetings, but that's not the majority of the people I think who attend, is it? Am I wrong? If so please tell me.
Also Hanzomon, I am not sure why you bring up WWASPS? What does that have to do with AA?
And BTW, almost everything said on this board causes some kind of argument, don't worry about that. Just playing, more or less we are just stating our own opinions!
But, I am not sure of your question?
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Ooh, I can't wait for Anne to respond to that last post. Wheres that orange-papers link when you need it?
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Here's a directive... stop beating the drum that I'm a religious bigot. FYI, I'm not attached to any organized religion, even the non-religions. Haven't found one that make a bit of sense.[/b]
Deb, it seems to me like you're upset that you have not found a religion that makes any sense to you? I'm sorry, maybe that's part of your problem here?
I'm not sure why you are attacking others for their beliefs though? What's up with that? Nobody is pushing anything on anyone at this school.
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Ooh, I can't wait for Anne to respond to that last post. Wheres that orange-papers link when you need it?
Hey, if someone has that kind of time on their hands, god bless them. Please knock yourself out.
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If you don't agree with their ways, that's fine. But, for some people it truly helps them. Why wouldn't you want people to get better, get healthy, and start making good decisions?
I brought up WWASPS in response to this. Would your statement apply to WWASPS?
Also Deb is not attacking anyone's religious beliefs.
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If you don't agree with their ways, that's fine. But, for some people it truly helps them. Why wouldn't you want people to get better, get healthy, and start making good decisions?
I brought up WWASPS in response to this. Would your statement apply to WWASPS?
Also Deb is not attacking anyone's religious beliefs.
No, it wouldn't apply to WWASPS.
And for the record, I personally feel like she is attacking the Mormon religion!
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I have another question, but sense it's not on topic I'll just pm you instead
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Feel free, although I am off to an appointment. I might not be able to answer right away.
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CCM Girl. Like you and probably most people on the board i dont have an issue if a school is religious. i also agree with you that mormonism is not in itself an abusive faith any more than Islam is inherently the faith of terrorists or Catholicism the faith of paedophiles.
However many of these "therapeutic" schools profess to be neutral when they are in fact mormon. This is deceptive. A parent wanting to send their kid to the local christian school is not told that it is secular or Jewish. If a school is not going to be honest about this then it does not seem wise for a parent to trust that it is honest about its other practices.
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CCM Girl. Like you and probably most people on the board i dont have an issue if a school is religious. i also agree with you that mormonism is not in itself an abusive faith any more than Islam is inherently the faith of terrorists or Catholicism the faith of paedophiles.
However many of these "therapeutic" schools profess to be neutral when they are in fact mormon. This is deceptive. A parent wanting to send their kid to the local christian school is not told that it is secular or Jewish. If a school is not going to be honest about this then it does not seem wise for a parent to trust that it is honest about its other practices.
Most parents are not sending their kids to Heritage in hopes they will become a member of the LDS church. They are sending their kids there that have emotional problems in hopes that they will get the help they need. The program has a structure that has very little to do with the Mormon religion. I simply said that attending church was an option made to us there. The program did not revolve around it. There were Jewish girls there, and you didn't see the missionaries rolling up on their bikes trying to change them!
BTW, nobody was ever treated differently because of whatever religious views they had.
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CCM Girl, what would happen to you psychologically if mamala decided to pull her daughter out?
The question is, what was the psychological impact of her parents rejection? Can you imagine not being wanted by your parents? Being raised by an institution.
Kid bonds with the program? The program becomes the parent?
Perhaps that explains the defensiveness.
Kids who are abused by their parents might bad-mouth them but they don't want anyone else to. Cause if you bad-mouth the parent, the kid perceives it as bad-mouthing him. They can talk shit about their parents, but you can't.
CCM, why do you, in hindsight, think the program didn't work for you? I mean, 3 1/2 years of 24/7 structure and therapy, is a long time to make no progress.
How often did you see a licensed therapist?
Did you gain any insight into why you were so violently angry?
Why you wanted to beat the shit out of others?
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What prompted your aunt and uncle to come to your rescue after you ran?
Why not before?
Were you ever allowed to grieve your parents rejection in the program? Or were you led to believe that their rejection was an effort to help, right down to forcing the exit plan?
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What prompted your aunt and uncle to come to your rescue after you ran?
Why not before?
Were you ever allowed to grieve your parents rejection in the program? Or were you led to believe that their rejection was an effort to help, right down to forcing the exit plan?
My Aunt, and Uncle wanted to take me when I was 9. My parents did not let that happen. They tried again after my placement, and when I had come home for my brothers funeral at the age of 13, they still wouldn't let them take me.
I have no idea what you mean by "did I believe their rejection was an effort to help, right down the exit plan?"
No, they had nothing to do with my "exit plan", that had to do with my therapist, and the owner of the school.
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Aren't parents required to enforce the "Exit Plan?" Aren't the therapist and program out-of-the-loop once the "Exit Plan" goes into effect?
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So, to make a long story short, no, I am not a part of a 12 step program. But, if that's what helps someone with their problems, why should I dismiss it as just being another "fucked up cult"?
If you don't agree with their ways, that's fine. But, for some people it truly helps them. Why wouldn't you want people to get better, get healthy, and start making good decisions?
How do you know it helps them? What evidence to you have? The only study that AA allowed to be done proved that it actually raised the death rate and did squat to help anyone. This study, btw, was done by one of the BOD members of AA. So, by AA's own admission their cult does not do any better than spontaneous remission (doing nothing) and is actually more dangerous than doing nothing.
http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-eff ... l#Vaillant (http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-effectiveness.html#Vaillant)
When I joined the staff at Cambridge Hospital, I learned about the disease of alcoholism for the first time. My prior training had been at a famous teaching hospital that from past despair had posted an unwritten sign over the door that read "alcoholic patients need not apply." ... At Cambridge Hospital I learned for the first time how to diagnose alcoholism as an illness and to think of abstinence in terms of "one day at a time." ... To me, alcoholism became a fascinating disease. It seemed perfectly clear that by meeting the immediate individual needs of the alcoholic, by using multimodality therapy, by disregarding "motivation," by turning to recovering alcoholics [A.A. members] rather than to Ph.D.'s for lessons in breaking self-detrimental and more or less involuntary habits, and by inexorably moving patients from dependence upon the general hospital into the treatment system of A.A., I was working for the most exciting alcohol program in the world.
But then came the rub. Fueled by our enthusiasm, I and the director, William Clark, tried to prove our efficacy. Our clinic followed up our first 100 detoxification patients, the Clinic sample described in Chapter 3, every year for the next 8 years. ...
Table 8.1 shows our treatment results. After initial discharge, only five patients in the Clinic sample never relapsed to alcoholic drinking, and there is compelling evidence that the results of our treatment were no better than the natural history of the disease. In table 8.1, the outcomes for the Clinic sample patients are contrasted with two-year follow-ups of four treatment programs that analyzed their data in a comparable way and admitted patients similar to ours. The Clinic sample results are also contrasted with three studies of equal duration that purported to offer no formal treatment. Although the treatment populations differ, the studies are roughly comparable; in hopes of averaging out major sampling differences, the studies are pooled. Costello (1975), Emrick (1975), and Hill and Blane (1967) have reviewed many more disparate two-year outcome studies and have noted roughly similar proportions of significantly improved and unimproved alcoholics. Not only had we failed to alter the natural history of alcoholism, but our death rate of three percent a year was appalling.
No one is bashing anything. We're presenting facts. Asking questions. Yes, we have our opinions already, but we're still presenting facts to back them up. We're putting the truth up. Coercive programs don't work and very often do more damage because you're fucking around with someone's psyche, their core....against their will. That's never a good idea, especially with developing teenagers who may or may not have emotional problems to begin with. You close them off in an isolated, insulated, extremely controlled environment and it doesn't take long to 'wash' them. Its sick, it scary and its happening with the consent of parents and well intentioned people, thinking they're 'helping'. Well, in some cases they're 'helping' us to death.
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Nobody is pushing anything on anyone at this school.
I can't believe you can say that with a straight face. Unbelievable. Its an isolated Mormon environment where it appears, from what's been posted here, that you 'progress' faster if you embrace religion. And that doesn't even speak to just being bombarded with it and having no other outside influence. Its difficult to be in that for so long and not feel the desire to conform. Its human nature to want to connect with others and in that scenario, where the only people TO connect with are those who are heavily into the religion, its almost unavoidable. But then, that's the idea IMO.
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Nobody is pushing anything on anyone at this school.
I can't believe you can say that with a straight face. Unbelievable. Its an isolated Mormon environment where it appears, from what's been posted here, that you 'progress' faster if you embrace religion. And that doesn't even speak to just being bombarded with it and having no other outside influence. Its difficult to be in that for so long and not feel the desire to conform. Its human nature to want to connect with others and in that scenario, where the only people TO connect with are those who are heavily into the religion, its almost unavoidable. But then, that's the idea IMO.
An isolated Mormon environment? What the hell are you talking about? I thought it was a bunch of Islamics who inhabited Utah?!!! Come on, get serious any person with a brain knows that most of the state of Utah is, guess what???? MORMON! Fabulous, thanks for the ginko.
Nobody was ever, I mean ever, pressured into becoming Mormon while attending Heritage. It's not like you got baptized, and all of a sudden started jumping levels, and were sent home?!!
I said a small percentage of people even attended church (it was not mandatory)!!!! But, you keep wanting to spin it your way! Sorry, not going to let that happen. During my 3 1/2 year stay there, there was no more then 5 girls who were baptized Mormon. I want to say 3. I can name 2 Melanie, and Evie. I won't give you the last names. I am thinking there was one other who I can't remember her name? The other 2, I am just rounding it off to 5 to be fair, and give you the benefit of the doubt.
But the truth is, we all knew when someone was baptized. We all thought "kiss ass" when that happened. But being older, and I wish to God I knew if these 2 girls were sincere or not. I wish I was in contact with them, but I am not!
Keep in mind this was a program that was focused on theraputic treatment. Not religious studies. Helping families heal, and helping the child with their problems. Giving them the best treatment available. This program was located in Utah which means most of the staff was Mormon. So freakin what? The did not push it on us.
That's it for tonight. Anyone who reads this, any parent out there considering treatment for their child, look Heritage up, and judge for yourself.
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Ok, what kind of therapy?
Did they isolate them from the outside world and their own family?
DID THEY KEEP CHILDREN THERE WHO HAD NO PROBLEMS?