Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Hyde Schools => Topic started by: Ursus on September 18, 2007, 01:03:54 AM
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Ursus on September 18, 2007, 01:03:54 AM
I can't remember at the moment whether they're called Priorities or Principles. I'll call them "Priorities" as that is what they're called on my source for the copy and paste, but it seems to me I've heard them called "Principles" some place else. Hard to tell, and probably doesn't really matter anyway, unless you're at Hyde at the moment, as they seem to recycle many of these "potency enhancers" throughout whatever is the current lingo at any given time...
This first one wasn't there during my day, at least not in its featured framework. Don't get me wrong, "Truth" was, is, and always will be a biggie; it's the "Harmony" part that seems new to me. I think it is a deliberate attempt to differentiate themselves from the other "pseudo character educators" that may potentially misguide Hyde's marks.
As to the respective importance of truth vs. harmony, I had always thought it was "self-evident," save for those occasional crises of conscience that one wrestles with from time to time. But... given that the Oligarchy essentially absolves the plebes from having to interpret most of life's events themselves, they had better trash "Harmony" ...lest we get too complacent.
============================
Priority #1 Truth Over Harmony (http://http://web.archive.org/web/20031207072418/www.biggestjob.org/priority_01.html)
Truth over Harmony is the foundation upon which all of the 10 Priorities rest. It speaks to our core as individuals, as partners, as family members and as educators. Putting the weight of our foot on the path of honesty is a lifelong challenge and journey.
We learn great lessons when we exercise the courage to trust the truth. We can also learn them on those occasions when we recognize that we have actually been guided by harmony.
As parents and educators, we need to ask ourselves: Which holds a higher value in my family or classroom: truth, dealing honestly with each other, or harmony, getting along with each other? Remember, the question is not which of these two ought to hold higher value, but which of these two is, in fact, valued more?
Many parents and teachers who believe they place their highest value on truth end up discovering that they work even harder to maintain a role as peacemaker in their families or schools. No matter how you express it - as honesty, integrity, or conscience, -- this priority stresses the importance of placing truth at the center of our lives. Truth must be the ultimate anchor.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on September 18, 2007, 06:46:19 AM
I was reading a piece on Pragmatism the other day. The question the Pragmatist raise is whether the Truth is knowable except through experiment and observation. The question that come to my mind is, "who is the arbiter of this Truth" This dogma has some obvious flaws. IT works as a tool for sorting out the dynamics of a dysfunctional family. I seriously doubt is it practiced day to day at Hyde, a place where group cohesion is prized. I think how ever that Joe opines on the difference between big truths and little truths. Little: you have something between your teeth Big: you are an an abusive overbearing bastard who's actions alienate people. So I suppose in day to day life that heuristic is applied to make the principle work.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on September 18, 2007, 08:49:50 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
The question that come to my mind is, "who is the arbiter of this Truth."
Interesting question. I'd also ask why truth and harmony are conceived as mutually exclusive. Is a truthful relationship always an embattled one? Conversely, is a harmonious relationship founded on lies and secrecy?
I suppose there are contexts in which truth and harmony are opposites, as when Bob tells something about Alice that Alice does not want Bob to tell. Then indeed there is disharmony between Bob and Alice. Why should Joe encourage Bob to betray Alice's confidence? Joe would encourage Bob to betray Alice if Alice has opinions or behaviors that make her assimilation into Joe's group impossible.
You pointed out that it is paradoxical that Hyde rejects harmony yet prizes group cohesion. I don't think that is a paradox. The bias for truth is eventually replaced by the bias for harmony. Truth is manifested in opposition to all who stand in the way of harmony. After the opposition is confronted and punished, the ground is cleared for the establishment of harmony. Indeed, the bias for harmony was predominant all along. When truth has run its course, harmony can be established. What is misleading is Hyde's professed preference for truth. The opposite is true!
Is harmony good? No, not as practiced at Hyde. On my account, harmony is homogeneity, conformity, cowardice, intolerance, zealousness, bullying, hypocrisy -- the successful outcome to the McCarthy trials.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on September 18, 2007, 09:35:56 AM
Quote
After the opposition is confronted and punished, the ground is cleared for the establishment of harmony
Sounds like the dictatorship of the proletariat. What I have observed is in the dynamic of groups that I have been apart of Truth and Harmony are poles. Not opposite but when one is veered to it is sometimes to the detriment of the other. If I am on a team or leading a team, I need to consider the goal of the team as the context of feedback I give to my team members also the overall effect of the feedback on the individual. At any point in someone's development the "Truth" could be helpful or it could be harmful. Perhaps it is better to encourage some one who may be lacking in some aspect rather then offer a blunt assessment, especially so if they are dealing with self esteem issues. So as presented in the Hyde catachism, the "Truth" is a blunt instrument meant to shock the errant family/student into dealing with reality. At least that is the context in which I see it vis-a-vis Hyde. I know that this technique is not completely successful. Hyde places the onus for the success of its nostrums on the patient (Joe likes this metaphor), so clearly when the panacea does pan out it was not swallowed correctly. So to the extent that the truth is knowable, and I believe that extent is described to a large degree by the Pragmatists, the truth is that the Truth does not always work. This is a Truth that is drowned out by the Harmony of the cohesive group of Hydites singing about the Truth. This must be a prototype in story telling where the thing that is worshiped is betrayed by its very worship.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Ursus on September 18, 2007, 09:49:52 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
The question that come to my mind is, "who is the arbiter of this Truth."
"Kids resent being brainwashed, but they recognize there is truth in my words." -Joseph Gauld
Quote from: ""Guest""
Hyde places the onus for the success of its nostrums on the patient (Joe likes this metaphor), so clearly when the panacea does pan out it was not swallowed correctly.
Hyde does consider the physician to be infallible. I guess that is why he prefers to operate on teenagers, known to swallow correctly but a fraction of the time. Malpractice insurance must be lower, since the frequent botched operations can always be blamed on the patient.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on September 18, 2007, 11:26:06 AM
Beat that metaphor to death!
I guess that is my beef with Hyde: its self appointed Popehood of the "Truth." There is something inherently untruthful about it. Oh well. I guess if you go there and it does not work it sucks to be you.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on September 18, 2007, 12:30:13 PM
I went there. it did not work. it sucks to be me.
it must suck to be my parents too.
all Hyde feeds us are big lies with little bits of truths mixd in!
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on September 18, 2007, 02:12:29 PM
Quote from: ""Ursus""
Quote from: ""Guest""
The question that come to my mind is, "who is the arbiter of this Truth."
"Kids resent being brainwashed, but they recognize there is truth in my words." -Joseph Gauld
Quote from: ""Guest""
Hyde places the onus for the success of its nostrums on the patient (Joe likes this metaphor), so clearly when the panacea does pan out it was not swallowed correctly.
Hyde does consider the physician to be infallible. I guess that is why he prefers to operate on teenagers, known to swallow correctly but a fraction of the time. Malpractice insurance must be lower, since the frequent botched operations can always be blamed on the patient.
There is a lot of truth in what Joe has to say. But he is not infallible and has no more claim to know the "Truth" then any of the other carbon based life forms on this planet. "Beam Me up Scotty, this is a primitive culture that still has Joe Gaulds"
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Ursus on September 18, 2007, 02:16:46 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Beat that metaphor to death!
I guess that is my beef with Hyde: its self appointed Popehood of the "Truth." There is something inherently untruthful about it. Oh well. I guess if you go there and it does not work it sucks to be you.
Quote from: ""Guest""
I went there. it did not work. it sucks to be me.
Well, sometimes it does suck to be me, but I rather like me, all things considered, despite apparently popular contention that I should not. And since I am the one who ends up spending the most time with me, I rather think my opinion counts more than the clamor of the mob.
--------------------
Okay, here's the second one. I have to laugh, ha ha haaa, thinking about this one being applied at Hyde. Too many rules? oh pahleeze... The hypocrisy just gets bigger and bigger...
Vis-s-vis applying the below to a single family situation... Aren't we splitting a few semantic hairs here? Of course everyone knows that principles are at the core of most rules made. DUH! But rules are the short, sweet, and most practical in carrying out the principles in the day to day. Maybe I find it a bit counter productive having a philosophical discussion about filial responsibilities and caring for the needs of one's fellow human being every time the garbage needs to be taken out.
Maybe this one needs to be filed under "Lame, Lame, and more Lame."
============================
Priority #2 Principles Over Rules (http://http://web.archive.org/web/20031219072114/www.biggestjob.org/priority_02.html)
It is so easy to focus on rules, especially when things are starting to spin out of control. "There is no eating in THAT room, either!" Rules are not unimportant, but they will not take us where we want to go with our children. Instead, our primary focus should be to identify what is at the center of our family. If it is the behavior and actions of a particular person, we need to replace that with the specific principles we hold sacred, such as honesty, courage, etc. Rules placed at the center of the family allow us to focus only on the actions of our children. Principles at the center of the family place the focus on the entire family. Living up to principles is a lifelong process.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on September 18, 2007, 02:49:37 PM
Quote from: ""Ursus""
Priority #2 Principles Over Rules (http://http://web.archive.org/web/20031219072114/www.biggestjob.org/priority_02.html)
It is so easy to focus on rules, especially when things are starting to spin out of control. "There is no eating in THAT room, either!" Rules are not unimportant, but they will not take us where we want to go with our children. Instead, our primary focus should be to identify what is at the center of our family. If it is the behavior and actions of a particular person, we need to replace that with the specific principles we hold sacred, such as honesty, courage, etc. Rules placed at the center of the family allow us to focus only on the actions of our children. Principles at the center of the family place the focus on the entire family. Living up to principles is a lifelong process.
Rules are broken. Principles are inflicted.
Title: a song about truth
Post by: Anonymous on September 18, 2007, 05:04:30 PM
Hey Derek said it best:
Tell the truth. Tell me who's been fooling you? Tell the truth. Who's been fooling who?
There you sit there, looking so cool While the whole show is passing you by. You better come to terms with your fellow men soon, cause...
The whole world is shaking now. Can't you feel it? A new dawn is breaking now. Can't you see it?
Tell the truth. Tell me who's been fooling you Tell the truth. Who's been fooling who?
It doesn't matter just who you are, Or where you're going or been. Open your eyes and look into your heart.
The whole world is shaking now. Can't you feel it? A new dawn is breaking now. Can't you see it? I said see it, yeah, can't you see it? Can't you see it, yeah, can't you see it? I can see it, yeah.
Tell the truth. Tell me who's been fooling you Tell the truth. Who's been fooling who?
Hear what I say, 'cause every word is true. You know I wouldn't tell you no lies. Your time's coming, gonna be soon, boy.
The whole world is shaking now. Can't you feel it? A new dawn is breaking now. Can't you see it? I said see it, yeah, can't you see it? Can't you see it, yeah, can't you see it? I can see it, yeah.
This song was sung at Hyde at least one, played many times in a certain dorm room.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on September 18, 2007, 05:06:34 PM
oh yeahh ... I can hear the slide of an alum's Uncle .... sweet
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Ursus on September 18, 2007, 08:51:58 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
oh yeahh ... I can hear the slide of an alum's Uncle .... sweet
They say the good die young... Hopefully not all the good.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on September 19, 2007, 07:32:58 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
What I have observed is in the dynamic of groups that I have been apart of Truth and Harmony are poles. Not opposite but when one is veered to it is sometimes to the detriment of the other. If I am on a team or leading a team, I need to consider the goal of the team as the context of feedback I give to my team members also the overall effect of the feedback on the individual.
The relation that truth bears to harmony is that of means to end. Of course, here one has to be careful to distinguish between individual harmony and collective harmony, as you started to do in your football example. A team captain who nails a teammate for a slack performance values truth over individual harmony. He values truth not as an end in itself but as a means of restoring collective (team) harmony. "Truth" over individual harmony, but collective harmony over "truth."
"Truth," for the sake of collective harmony, easily degenerates into the Gauld-given right to persecute anyone who doesn't jump on the Hyde bandwagon. The label "truth" is one of Hyde's many abuses of language. Their most elevating and comforting words are only pretense and delusion! That was one of the most instructive periods of my life -- learning not to accept words at face value. It was very educating for my whole life.
Quote from: ""Guest""
So to the extent that the truth is knowable, and I believe that extent is described to a large degree by the Pragmatists, the truth is that the Truth does not always work.
If you want to talk about Truth with a capital T and shed some light on Hyde, you might look into utilitarianism. Utilitarianism's highest imperative is that one do what is best for society. It was originated by Jeremy Bentham in the nineteenth century. Bentham's conception of utilitarianism is now called "act rationality." Young Raskolnikov in Crime and Punishment killed the old moneylender because she was a bane on society, and because her money could be put to better social uses. Raskolnikov was a Benthamite. But no one wants a philosophy that sanctions murder. So John Stuart Mill came up with "rule rationality." There might be something in utilitarianism that is of relevance to Hyde.
Spok
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on September 19, 2007, 07:57:37 AM
Quote from: ""Ursus""
Quote from: ""Guest""
oh yeahh ... I can hear the slide of an alum's Uncle .... sweet
They say the good die young... Hopefully not all the good.
Eat a peach and listen to Derek Trucks. Now there is a boy that is doing some useful channeling.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on September 19, 2007, 08:07:15 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""
What I have observed is in the dynamic of groups that I have been apart of Truth and Harmony are poles. Not opposite but when one is veered to it is sometimes to the detriment of the other. If I am on a team or leading a team, I need to consider the goal of the team as the context of feedback I give to my team members also the overall effect of the feedback on the individual.
The relation that truth bears to harmony is that of means to end. Of course, here one has to be careful to distinguish between individual harmony and collective harmony, as you started to do in your football example. A team captain who nails a teammate for a slack performance values truth over individual harmony. He values truth not as an end in itself but as a means of restoring collective (team) harmony. "Truth" over individual harmony, but collective harmony over "truth."
"Truth," for the sake of collective harmony, easily degenerates into the Gauld-given right to persecute anyone who doesn't jump on the Hyde bandwagon. The label "truth" is one of Hyde's many abuses of language. Their most elevating and comforting words are only pretense and delusion! That was one of the most instructive periods of my life -- learning not to accept words at face value. It was very educating for my whole life.
Quote from: ""Guest""
So to the extent that the truth is knowable, and I believe that extent is described to a large degree by the Pragmatists, the truth is that the Truth does not always work.
If you want to talk about Truth with a capital T and shed some light on Hyde, you might look into utilitarianism. Utilitarianism's highest imperative is that one do what is best for society. It was originated by Jeremy Bentham in the nineteenth century. Bentham's conception of utilitarianism is now called "act rationality." Young Raskolnikov in Crime and Punishment killed the old moneylender because she was a bane on society, and because her money could be put to better social uses. Raskolnikov was a Benthamite. But no one wants a philosophy that sanctions murder. So John Stuart Mill came up with "rule rationality." There might be something in utilitarianism that is of relevance to Hyde.
Spok
Thanks I will do some pursuing on utilitarianism as part of my hobby as an amateur epistemologist
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Ursus on September 19, 2007, 03:27:30 PM
Okay, the third one's another INSPIRING gem... I have some issues with this one, having been at the short end of this stick more than one too many times, ha ha haaa...
I prefer to call it "the tyranny of the mediocre over the genius of the few." As far as the Attitude Adjusters Society is concerned, you can have a good attitude or you may or may not have good aptitude, but you can not excel at both.
============================
Priority #3 Attitude Over Aptitude (http://http://web.archive.org/web/20031219073021/www.biggestjob.org/priority_03.html)
Our current educational system is preoccupied with innate talent, thus we set up a "pecking order" as well as debilitating morale among our young people. When we ask high school students, "Are there kids at your school who do little or no work, but make the honor roll?" the answer is always a resounding "yes." It should not come as a surprise that many of our students are more preoccupied with reaching the top, rather than how to reach their best with integrity. Others may choose to "opt out" and sabotage their own educations. If our schools and communities valued attitude over aptitude, effort over ability and character over talent, we might see a decrease in lying, cheating, and stealing. We definitely would all be better off. We might even develop positive aptitudes over the long term.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on September 20, 2007, 02:10:40 AM
There is something evil and vicious in the Gaulds' above portrait of the smart kid. He doesn't work for his good grades. He lacks character. He is responsible for the nation's high dropout rates. He corrupts youth, causing them to lie, cheat, and steal (!). His very presence in the classroom is demoralizing to others. How familiar it all sounds. How Mein Kampf. No wonder I felt like the Prince of the New Pharisees.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on September 20, 2007, 05:54:03 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
There is something evil and vicious in the Gaulds' above portrait of the smart kid.
... in the Gaulds' vilification of the smart kid. Vilification is the word I was looking for.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on September 20, 2007, 07:05:06 AM
The system at Hyde not only vilifies the intellectually gifted, but sets up a system that can be gamed by those gifted with other talents. I think the system does pick some people of character, but also picks some people that have problematic lives. Some of the people that are passed over lead "purpose driven" lives. IF there was a way to quantify it, I suspect that there is a large element of randomness: flip a coin - heads you get a diploma tails you don't. I found value in my experience at Hyde but not from the didactic character growth message.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Ursus on September 20, 2007, 09:09:45 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
IF there was a way to quantify it, I suspect that there is a large element of randomness: flip a coin - heads you get a diploma tails you don't.
I think it could be random if you were lucky enough to be one of the more "invisible" ones. But if they honed their sights on you for one reason or another, you fell into one of the extreme categories: either set up to be one of Hyde's "superstars," or impeded and sabotaged whilst you were there, and long after you left.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on September 20, 2007, 12:22:11 PM
Hey Ursey...
Do you have a job. Man, if you worked for me and spent all this time posting, I'd be pretty bummed.
If you're a trust funder...how 'bout a donation for the new student ctr on the Woodstock campus?!
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on September 20, 2007, 12:34:18 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
There is something evil and vicious in the Gaulds' above portrait of the smart kid. He doesn't work for his good grades. He lacks character. He is responsible for the nation's high dropout rates. He corrupts youth, causing them to lie, cheat, and steal (!). His very presence in the classroom is demoralizing to others. How familiar it all sounds. How Mein Kampf. No wonder I felt like the Prince of the New Pharisees.
??? And yet... I don't think there is a school in this country that has a higher "drop-out" rate than Hyde. I think they are lucky if they can claim 40% stay the whole course 'till "graduation." It's probably far less than that. Not exactly the kind of information that Hyde would be forthright about.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on September 20, 2007, 01:16:57 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""
There is something evil and vicious in the Gaulds' above portrait of the smart kid. He doesn't work for his good grades. He lacks character. He is responsible for the nation's high dropout rates. He corrupts youth, causing them to lie, cheat, and steal (!). His very presence in the classroom is demoralizing to others. How familiar it all sounds. How Mein Kampf. No wonder I felt like the Prince of the New Pharisees.
??? And yet... I don't think there is a school in this country that has a higher "drop-out" rate than Hyde. I think they are lucky if they can claim 40% stay the whole course 'till "graduation." It's probably far less than that. Not exactly the kind of information that Hyde would be forthright about.
Interesting point.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on September 20, 2007, 01:20:54 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Hey Ursey...
Do you have a job. Man, if you worked for me and spent all this time posting, I'd be pretty bummed.
If you're a trust funder...how 'bout a donation for the new student ctr on the Woodstock campus?!
I think he works for Hyde.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on September 20, 2007, 01:28:54 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""
There is something evil and vicious in the Gaulds' above portrait of the smart kid. He doesn't work for his good grades. He lacks character. He is responsible for the nation's high dropout rates. He corrupts youth, causing them to lie, cheat, and steal (!). His very presence in the classroom is demoralizing to others. How familiar it all sounds. How Mein Kampf. No wonder I felt like the Prince of the New Pharisees.
??? And yet... I don't think there is a school in this country that has a higher "drop-out" rate than Hyde. I think they are lucky if they can claim 40% stay the whole course 'till "graduation." It's probably far less than that. Not exactly the kind of information that Hyde would be forthright about.
Interesting point.
What would be the take-home from that? That greater than 60% of the student population failed to "apply" themselves appropriately? Or that the Hyde program is not applicable to greater than 60% of the student population? Either way, doesn't make Hyde look too good.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Ursus on September 20, 2007, 03:07:32 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Hey Ursey...
Do you have a job. Man, if you worked for me and spent all this time posting, I'd be pretty bummed.
If you're a trust funder...how 'bout a donation for the new student ctr on the Woodstock campus?!
:rofl: Gee, Buddy, I'm almost flattered to be singled out by you like that; didn't have a clue that you cared that much...
All fun aside, I do hope for your sake that you are able to someday "wake up and smell the coffee." 'Till then, have a nice day. :wave:
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Ursus on September 20, 2007, 03:09:50 PM
I really do see this "Priority" is one of Hyde's primary means of stifling critical thought and true scholarship. It is nothing more than a pithy and reactionary sophism that rationalizes some of their more egregious indoctrination efforts.
If Hyde School methods do not work for whatever reason for greater than 60% of the student population, then something is seriously amiss with their alleged intent to "change the face of American education." Somewhere, somehow, there is a serious disconnect with reality.
Funny, that figure roughly coincides with their unsuccessful attempts in the charter school business too, ha ha haa! And this is presuming 100% student participation in the schools they do manage to get up and running...
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on September 20, 2007, 07:18:03 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""
There is something evil and vicious in the Gaulds' above portrait of the smart kid. He doesn't work for his good grades. He lacks character. He is responsible for the nation's high dropout rates. He corrupts youth, causing them to lie, cheat, and steal (!). His very presence in the classroom is demoralizing to others. How familiar it all sounds. How Mein Kampf. No wonder I felt like the Prince of the New Pharisees.
??? And yet... I don't think there is a school in this country that has a higher "drop-out" rate than Hyde. I think they are lucky if they can claim 40% stay the whole course 'till "graduation." It's probably far less than that. Not exactly the kind of information that Hyde would be forthright about.
Interesting point.
What would be the take-home from that? That greater than 60% of the student population failed to "apply" themselves appropriately? Or that the Hyde program is not applicable to greater than 60% of the student population? Either way, doesn't make Hyde look too good.
I guess I was born with a captious mind, but it seems to me that if hyde is protesting the failures of the public school system as evidenced in high drop out rates, but hyde itself has a high drop out rate, that Hyde is being hypocritical and not living up to the First principle of Truth over Harmony.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on September 20, 2007, 07:33:14 PM
There is something evil and vicious in the Gaulds' above portrait of the smart kid. He doesn't work for his good grades. He lacks character. He is responsible for the nation's high dropout rates. He corrupts youth, causing them to lie, cheat, and steal (!). His very presence in the classroom is demoralizing to others. How familiar it all sounds. How Mein Kampf. No wonder I felt like the Prince of the New Pharisees.
Protocol of the Elders of Smartness!
And who causes all the wars? The smart people. March all the smart kids to re-education camps in Maine or Connecticut.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Ursus on September 20, 2007, 08:46:45 PM
Quote
Priority #3 Attitude Over Aptitude (http://http://web.archive.org/web/20031219073021/www.biggestjob.org/priority_03.html)
Our current educational system is preoccupied with innate talent, thus we set up a "pecking order" as well as debilitating morale among our young people. When we ask high school students, "Are there kids at your school who do little or no work, but make the honor roll?" the answer is always a resounding "yes." It should not come as a surprise that many of our students are more preoccupied with reaching the top, rather than how to reach their best with integrity. Others may choose to "opt out" and sabotage their own educations. If our schools and communities valued attitude over aptitude, effort over ability and character over talent, we might see a decrease in lying, cheating, and stealing. We definitely would all be better off. We might even develop positive aptitudes over the long term.
Revised Version:
The Hyde "educational" system is preoccupied with conformity to the Hyde-determined social milieu, hence it has set up a pecking order as well as debilitating morale amongst young people who attend. When we ask Hyde School students, "Are there kids at your school who do little or no work, yet are rewarded for their so-called 'good attitude?'" the answer is always a resounding "yes." It should not come as a surprise that many of these students are more preoccupied with conforming to Hyde's expectations, than they are in striving for their best with integrity. Others choose to "opt out" and even sabotage their own educations by finishing them elsewhere. If Hyde Schools and communities
truly valued authenticity over mere pandering, integrity over conformity, and genuine scholarship over undirected effort, we might see a decrease in the lying, cheating, and stealing. We would definitely all be better off. We might even nurture some positive attitudes over the long term.[/list]
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on September 22, 2007, 02:31:58 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""
What I have observed is in the dynamic of groups that I have been apart of Truth and Harmony are poles. Not opposite but when one is veered to it is sometimes to the detriment of the other. If I am on a team or leading a team, I need to consider the goal of the team as the context of feedback I give to my team members also the overall effect of the feedback on the individual.
The relation that truth bears to harmony is that of means to end. Of course, here one has to be careful to distinguish between individual harmony and collective harmony, as you started to do in your football example. A team captain who nails a teammate for a slack performance values truth over individual harmony. He values truth not as an end in itself but as a means of restoring collective (team) harmony. "Truth" over individual harmony, but collective harmony over "truth."
"Truth," for the sake of collective harmony, easily degenerates into the Gauld-given right to persecute anyone who doesn't jump on the Hyde bandwagon. The label "truth" is one of Hyde's many abuses of language. Their most elevating and comforting words are only pretense and delusion! That was one of the most instructive periods of my life -- learning not to accept words at face value. It was very educating for my whole life.
Quote from: ""Guest""
So to the extent that the truth is knowable, and I believe that extent is described to a large degree by the Pragmatists, the truth is that the Truth does not always work.
If you want to talk about Truth with a capital T and shed some light on Hyde, you might look into utilitarianism. Utilitarianism's highest imperative is that one do what is best for society. It was originated by Jeremy Bentham in the nineteenth century. Bentham's conception of utilitarianism is now called "act rationality." Young Raskolnikov in Crime and Punishment killed the old moneylender because she was a bane on society, and because her money could be put to better social uses. Raskolnikov was a Benthamite. But no one wants a philosophy that sanctions murder. So John Stuart Mill came up with "rule rationality." There might be something in utilitarianism that is of relevance to Hyde.
Spok
Thanks I will do some pursuing on utilitarianism as part of my hobby as an amateur epistemologist
You'll have to forgive my preference for Spok. He was a highly intelligent, highly alienated guy, with circumcised ears.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Ursus on September 22, 2007, 10:22:39 AM
Onwards to the next one. More "simplistic charm," although the clarity leaves a lot to be desired... Do people actually pay to take parenting lessons from this organization? I guess they must at least require you to buy the book. I imagine there is a great deal of pressure on Hyde parents to buy the book as well. I seem to recall a previous poster noting that it was "required reading." That must be painful. Otherwise, I just don't know how...
============================
Priority #4 Set High Expectations And Let Go Of The Outcomes (http://http://web.archive.org/web/20031219073256/www.biggestjob.org/priority_04.html)
Discipline alone will not raise our children to go after their dreams. We need to set the expectations high. Many parents control their children through their own high expectations, only to lower the bar to relieve the tension. We can reach a point when we reward our children for basic decent behavior. Setting high expectations is critical, but letting go of our vision for the outcome allows our children to take responsibility for their actions.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Ed Legg on September 22, 2007, 12:21:40 PM
Quote from: ""Ursus""
Onwards to the next one. More "simplistic charm," although the clarity leaves a lot to be desired... Do people actually pay to take parenting lessons from this organization? I guess they must at least require you to buy the book. I imagine there is a great deal of pressure on Hyde parents to buy the book as well. I seem to recall a previous poster noting that it was "required reading." That must be painful. Otherwise, I just don't know how...
============================
Priority #4 Set High Expectations And Let Go Of The Outcomes (http://http://web.archive.org/web/20031219073256/www.biggestjob.org/priority_04.html)
Discipline alone will not raise our children to go after their dreams. We need to set the expectations high. Many parents control their children through their own high expectations, only to lower the bar to relieve the tension. We can reach a point when we reward our children for basic decent behavior. Setting high expectations is critical, but letting go of our vision for the outcome allows our children to take responsibility for their actions.
Y'all should see this is perfectly clear. This is one of the things I started at Hyde. Joe was all screwed up on this one until I gave him that book by that Lebanese fella. "Your children are not children" which I understand may actually be literally true of some alums.
Peace and Love from Kennebunkport
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on September 22, 2007, 12:30:32 PM
Quote from: ""Ursus""
Onwards to the next one. More "simplistic charm," although the clarity leaves a lot to be desired... Do people actually pay to take parenting lessons from this organization? I guess they must at least require you to buy the book. I imagine there is a great deal of pressure on Hyde parents to buy the book as well. I seem to recall a previous poster noting that it was "required reading." That must be painful. Otherwise, I just don't know how...
============================
Priority #4 Set High Expectations And Let Go Of The Outcomes (http://http://web.archive.org/web/20031219073256/www.biggestjob.org/priority_04.html)
Discipline alone will not raise our children to go after their dreams. We need to set the expectations high. Many parents control their children through their own high expectations, only to lower the bar to relieve the tension. We can reach a point when we reward our children for basic decent behavior. Setting high expectations is critical, but letting go of our vision for the outcome allows our children to take responsibility for their actions.
Let's expect Malcolm and Laura to win the Nobel Prize for literature and graciously accept their inevitable failure.
I happen to know a Nobel Prize winner. Here's what he told an interviewer about his parents' influence:
Q: "Maybe it's a good point to ask you, in retrospect, who are the people who have most influenced your life?"
A: "First of all my family: parents, brother, wife, children, grandchildren. My great-grandchild has not yet had a specific important influence on me; he is all of one and a half. But that will come also. My students have influenced me greatly. All my teachers. Beyond that, to pick out one person in the family, just one: my mother, who was an extraordinary person. She got a bachelor's degree in England in 1914, at a time when that was very unusual for women. She was a medal-winning long-distance swimmer, sang Shubert lieder while accompanying herself on the piano, introduced us children to nature, music, reading. We would walk the streets and she would teach us the names of the trees. At night we looked at the sky and she taught us the names of the constellations. When I was about twelve, we started reading Dickens's A Tale of Two Cities together, until the book gripped me and I raced ahead alone. From then on, I read voraciously. She always encouraged, always pushed us along, gently, unobtrusively, always allowed us to make our own decisions. Of course parents always have an influence, but she was unusual."
His parents were struggling immigrants in America, but they worked very hard in order to provide him with an excellent high school and university education. They nurtured him, but there was no overt pressure from them.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Ursus on September 23, 2007, 01:10:06 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
They nurtured him, but there was no overt pressure from them.
Nurturing, yet no overt pressure. What a unique concept (to Hyde). I can't imagine a more pressure-filled, moral judgment-laden place than Hyde. And that's what kids who come out of there are initially like: under a lot of pressure, laden with moral judgments, whether or not they are deemed a "success" by Hyde standards.
One tends to internalize a lot of their outlook and mindset, at least for a while, whether one likes it or not...
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on September 23, 2007, 02:55:28 AM
Quote from: ""Ursus""
Quote from: ""Guest""
They nurtured him, but there was no overt pressure from them.
Nurturing, yet no overt pressure. What a unique concept (to Hyde). I can't imagine a more pressure-filled, moral judgment-laden place than Hyde. And that's what kids who come out of there are initially like: under a lot of pressure, laden with moral judgments, whether or not they are deemed a "success" by Hyde standards.
One tends to internalize a lot of their outlook and mindset, at least for a while, whether one likes it or not...
To say nothing of the lack of a solid educational component. You can plant a daisy in the desert and expect it to grow: it won't.
Back in the seventies I was lucky to have college recommendations from Legg (Harvard), Warren (Yale), and Hawley (Columbia). Hyde still had some academic clout then. But those fellows have been replaced by "mentors" such as Larry Dubinsky, who as I recall was the class idiot. I don't imagine Hyde students succeed or even make it into competitive academic programs anymore.
Not that the efforts of Legg, Warren, and Hawley had adequately prepared me for college. By no means. I was intellectually at sea and had to work, literally, sixteen hours a day to make up for the deficit. I don't attribute my success to Hyde's motivational exercises but to my own knowledge of the consequences of failure.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Ed Legg on September 23, 2007, 07:50:27 AM
Quote
Not that the efforts of Legg, Warren, and Hawley
Now you know how interested I was in you as a student. I take great umbrage at your remark. Of course I prepared y'all. I taught you haw to work like a dog and Hyde gave you the character to do it.
Peace and Love
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Ursus on September 24, 2007, 09:09:07 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Back in the seventies I was lucky to have college recommendations from Legg (Harvard), Warren (Yale), and Hawley (Columbia). Hyde still had some academic clout then. But those fellows have been replaced by "mentors" such as Larry Dubinsky, who as I recall was the class idiot. I don't imagine Hyde students succeed or even make it into competitive academic programs anymore.
You bring up an interesting point. Make that plural. First, the importance of the "old boy network" that Hyde relied on to accomplish what it did not do as far as providing an adequate education.
Second, that this generation of educators relied on their own education and upbringing as a resource for what little academic value that managed to trickle through the ideological pounding. Had this generation been brought up on a "Hyde education" themselves, they would have had far less to offer.
Since we are now dealing with a subsequent generation of "Hyde educators," many of which rely on a "Hyde education" as their resource, what trickles through is all that more diluted in substance and deficient in standards.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Ursus on September 26, 2007, 10:25:48 AM
Geez Louise... For some time now, I have noticed that the wording in these "Priorities" is not exactly what one might deem "professional caliber." I should talk, right? Well, I'm not the one who has the website. You would think that with all those millions they rake in from their marks, not to mention the financial acumen of their so-called benefactor Flexible-Telling, that they could afford an editor... "Often, success and failure are one in the same-the lessons learned in both are important." Yikes! I do believe they meant to say "one and the same," a common enough saying, not to mention that the sentence does not make any sense otherwise. But... I guess they consider this a prime example of attitude over aptitude, right? Ha! I consider this a prime example of the shoddy workmanship and mediocre educational standards that Hyde tries to pass off as "meaningful."
============================
Priority #5 Value Success And Failure (http://http://web.archive.org/web/20031219074006/www.biggestjob.org/priority_05.html)
As a society, we do not place much value on failure. Our generation, in particular, has a hard time letting its children struggle. Often, success and failure are one in the same-the lessons learned in both are important. When we let our children fail, we show them that we believe they are capable of learning what is necessary. We also need to share more of our struggles and failures with them. Think about something you might have perceived as a failure early in your life that later became an important lesson for you. Our children need those same moments of learning.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on September 26, 2007, 10:38:31 AM
Quote
Our generation, in particular, has a hard time letting its children struggle.
Ok. Put your money where your mouth is. Fire all of Joe's kids and see if they can make a living.[/url]
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Ursus on September 26, 2007, 10:49:51 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote
Our generation, in particular, has a hard time letting its children struggle.
Ok. Put your money where your mouth is. Fire all of Joe's kids and see if they can make a living.
Think they can? That generation doesn't even know what the real world smells like. Now their kids are getting ready to consider that foray...
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on September 26, 2007, 11:32:05 AM
Quote from: ""Ursus""
Priority #5 Value Success And Failure (http://http://web.archive.org/web/20031219074006/www.biggestjob.org/priority_05.html)
As a society, we do not place much value on failure. Our generation, in particular, has a hard time letting its children struggle. Often, success and failure are one in the same-the lessons learned in both are important. When we let our children fail, we show them that we believe they are capable of learning what is necessary. We also need to share more of our struggles and failures with them. Think about something you might have perceived as a failure early in your life that later became an important lesson for you. Our children need those same moments of learning.
Learn from your mistakes. Deep and original.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Ursus on September 26, 2007, 11:50:53 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Learn from your mistakes. Deep and original.
Quote from: ""Priority #5""
Think about something you might have perceived as a failure early in your life that later became an important lesson for you.
Think about something that Hyde might have perceived as a failure early on in its existence that later became...
:beat: Oh, wait. There were no "failures" on Hyde's part. Only kids who did not live up to their potentials of their own volition... So... no important lessons to learn, I guess.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on September 26, 2007, 12:08:51 PM
Has Hyde ever admitted to any failures or wrongdoing publically or privately?
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on September 26, 2007, 02:12:27 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Has Hyde ever admitted to any failures or wrongdoing publically or privately?
Faculty, yes; headmaster, no.
Listening to faculty discuss their failures was part of the everyday routine at Hyde. The idea, I guess, was to encourage students and parents to do the same. Pretty soon everyone was highly conscious of his own and others" failings, weaknesses, humility, and unworthiness.
Only the headmaster was exempt from this requirement. Accordingly, the group deferred to his judgment. I guess that's why Legg led the school in a few public beheadings of faculty who did not in his opinion sufficiently abject themselves. His authority was challenged.
Another example of how people are controlled.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Ursus on September 26, 2007, 04:27:28 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Has Hyde ever admitted to any failures or wrongdoing publically or privately?
As far as institutional policies and communiques go, not that I know of. The closest they've come, re. the physical extremes and humiliations that some of the students were subjected to in the 70's, was to say something along the lines of "we no longer employ those methods." Of course, what made those methods so abusive wasn't so much the 216 cubic feet of soil manipulated, or whatever else was involved, as much as it was the social excoriation that accompanied it, not to mention the utter unfairness of how they played favorites and passed down judgment based on their voodoo character nonsense. And that has not changed. Not one bit.
There has never been any admission of the substandard education that we received there. How utterly sub par the academics are, and how so many kids complain of being lost at sea when they first get to college. "Education for life." Right, it certainly isn't for college, that's for sure. (But it sure as hell isn't for life, either. Just what exactly is it for?).
There has never been any acknowledgment of culpability in their creation of conditions ripe for all the sexual predation that has gone on, and probably still goes on, let alone some semblance of apology for the transgressions themselves.
I seem to recall that Joe Gauld did have to write a letter of apology to Hyde-DC for an incident of his emotional excess a few years ago. I consider it noteworthy that this was one of the public charter schools; one has hope that these people still have one foot planted in reality, however tenuous that might be at this point.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on September 26, 2007, 04:48:26 PM
In the interest of being fair and balanced (like faux news) I have heard a Head of School nee Headmaster admit that "mistakes where made in the past."
As far as the ditch digging etc etc I don't think that was what the mistakes were. I think the mistakes were promising parents that they could deal with kids that they did not have the slightest clue about. I really got a kick out of the article in the Portland Press Herald were Joe pontificates on the VT shootings and how he knows the answer. Damnation, if Phil B didn't almost kill 20 odd kids in the Mansion. There are somethings you can't fix with attitude adjustment, fresh air, exercise and a crazy coot yelling at you.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Ursus on September 26, 2007, 09:09:52 PM
Portland Press Herald | Maine Sunday Telegram MAINE VOICES How to make our schools safe (http://http://pressherald.mainetoday.com/story_pf.php?id=118987&ac=PHedi) Hyde Schools offer three initiatives for students to be responsible for the best in each other.
Joseph W. Gauld July 6, 2007
Our deeply sad, but ultimately impotent, response to the Virginia Tech massacre reveals our American conscience is still asleep.
Like the Columbine tragedy, we routinely mourned the dead, discussed the whys and what ifs, made minor reforms, and then -- returned to business as usual.
What's next? Will some embittered student soon figure out a way to blow up his school while it is in session?
This is a time to act on conscience and finally address the bitterness, hostility and community detachment that created these tragedies. We must acknowledge the hatred was instigated and nurtured by our schools. But hatred is a learned behavior, and whatever is learned can be unlearned.
Our schools place us all in competition with each other. Given the rapid growth we are experiencing, this greatly exacerbates our incomplete sense of identity and worth.
This, in turn, motivates our "pecking order" instincts to put others down in order to feel better about ourselves. Thus our schools today are riddled with bullying, cliques.
This tyranny of conformity undermines our confidence in the uniqueness of our potentials and deeper selves. Examine our school cultures today: Under the No Child Left Behind Act, most of our schools are rated unsatisfactory, with the majority of students rated either "basic" or "below basic." Negativity abounds. Examine the present mission of our schools: 100 percent of American students rated "proficient" by year 2014. Never mind their uniqueness, values, character and humanness. What we seek is a bunch of robots who can perform proficiently.
We created a land whose laws revere individuality. But we unwittingly created a competitive educational system that does not. So, during this most critical human growth period, our system not only discourages students from helping and learning from each other, it allows their doubts about themselves and their worst instincts to bully others.
The depth of resentments and hatred generated inevitably spawn school tragedies like Columbine and Virginia Tech.
As a teacher, I experienced a crisis of conscience in 1962 when I realized I was part of this educational system that fails to help American kids discover their deeper selves and succeed in life beyond proficiency tests.
Since then, I have founded a network of both private and public Hyde Schools devoted to developing the character and unique potential of its students.
Our K-12 Hyde Leadership Public Charter School in Washington, D.C., has no metal detectors. The students like this safe environment and know that keeping it requires their "Brother's Keeper" commitment to the best in each other.
There is no bullying or "we-they" attitudes. No one experiences community isolation like that of the Virginia Tech shooter because students daily intrude on each other's lives with concern.
Our brand new Hyde Leadership Charter School in New York City recently disciplined a group of sixth graders that attempted to create a gang. But once they learn to appreciate Brother's Keeper, they will grow beyond these pecking-order attitudes.
After 41 years of work, this would be Hyde's contribution to American education:
1. Primarily evaluate student growth in terms of one's own best, not in comparison with others. The uniqueness of human development first requires encouragement -- certainly before competition.
2. Primarily focus on developing the character and unique potential of each student. This respects, values and motivates each one in a positive direction.
3. Require all students, particularly teenagers, to be each other's Brother's Keeper, to become responsible for the best in each other.
They can be powerful teachers, and their concern is the antidote for bitterness, anger, detachment and hostility.
These three initiatives will not only replace student alienation with life-long friendships; they will produce a generation to lead America into becoming the nation it was meant to be.
ABOUT THE AUTHOR: Joseph W. Gauld of Bath is the founder of Hyde Schools. • Special to the Press Herald
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on September 27, 2007, 01:45:56 AM
As if Hyde doesn't create bullying cliques, alienated individuals, and a we-they attitude! As if Hyde doesn't have a pecking order of its own! As if Hyde didn't have it own mass murderer!
Only, Hyde's mass murderer did not direct his bitterness and alienation at his peers. He sprinkled gasoline around the wood rooms and well-stocked library of the Mansion, the symbol of Hyde School, and set it ablaze in the middle of the night. Hyde School was his victim, not the students sleeping upstairs who used the Mansion as a dorm.
Hyde's mass murderer had been at Hyde only one summer and could still separate Hyde School from his peers who were his fellow victims. It would have been much harder for him to make this distinction, however, if he had waited until the regular year and seen more and more of his peers transformed in brother's keepers. Then his bitterness and alienation might have sought a more human target, and his MO might have been nearer to that of the Virginia Tech mass murderer.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Ursus on September 27, 2007, 02:46:00 AM
There were two of them, from what I recall. I.e., two kids who set the fire together on the first floor of the mansion, in the middle of the night, in the summer of 1975.
I did not have time to comment earlier. Yeah, I felt pretty exasperated reading Joe's words as he pontificated about the "'pecking order' instincts," the "bullying," the "we-they attitudes," and the "bitterness, anger, detachment and hostility" he ascribes to other schools... when Hyde School appears to be even more rife with these than what the regular populace cultivates!
We created a land whose laws revere individuality. But we unwittingly created a competitive educational system that does not. So, during this most critical human growth period, our system not only discourages students from helping and learning from each other, it allows their doubts about themselves and their worst instincts to bully others.[/list]
Maybe so. But Joe's system epitomizes the worst of it, not something different. Joe's system is the height of "this tyranny of conformity." His three initiatives are a joke. I'm surprised someone hasn't spit in his face already.
He must have Google alerts for "school tragedy" or similar, since every time something happens, e.g., Columbine, the CEDU/Brown Schools' closing, Virginia Tech, etc., he comes right out with another self-righteous treatise on what was wrong with respective circumstances and how Hyde School does it differently and better. When will people get tired of reading this shit? (Like anyone has a choice...)
What's next? Will some embittered student soon figure out a way to blow up his school while it is in session?[/list]
Is he senile and forgetting about 1975? Or is he just throwing this in our face one more time, laughing all the way to the bank?
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on September 27, 2007, 10:22:37 AM
Hyde is really luck that a VT style shooting has not occurred with some of the nut job kids it takes on.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Ursus on September 27, 2007, 04:15:27 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Hyde is really luck that a VT style shooting has not occurred with some of the nut job kids it takes on.
...or some of the nut job faculty it employs, by Jove! :rofl:
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Ursus on September 28, 2007, 06:33:43 PM
I don't know, maybe it's just me, but what if the "obstacle" is that the kid, himself, really just needs glasses!? So that he can avoid running into things?
More lame, lame, lame...
============================
Priority #6 Allow Obstacles To Become Opportunities (http://http://web.archive.org/web/20031219074437/www.biggestjob.org/priority_06.html)
How do we view obstacles? We can get caught up in trying to "fix" problems instead of seeing the potential possibilities for growth. If we view obstacles with this different set of "glasses," we liberate our children from avoiding obstacles. We need to trust that our children are on an unpredictable journey-one that we cannot and should not try to control even when they hit a rough spot. To interfere with that journey, obstacles and all, we take away their opportunity t o work through it. We need to say to our children more often, "Sounds like you are struggling, what are you going to do about it?"
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on September 29, 2007, 06:14:42 AM
Quote
We can get caught up in trying to "fix" problems instead of seeing the potential possibilities for growth.
Kind of dishonest of Hyde to artificially create more of these "potential possibilities for growth" dont you think? So they think they are doing us a favor by fucking us over?
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on October 01, 2007, 02:36:00 AM
Quote from: ""Ursus""
I don't know, maybe it's just me, but what if the "obstacle" is that the kid, himself, really just needs glasses!? So that he can avoid running into things?
More lame, lame, lame...
============================
Priority #6 Allow Obstacles To Become Opportunities (http://http://web.archive.org/web/20031219074437/www.biggestjob.org/priority_06.html)
How do we view obstacles? We can get caught up in trying to "fix" problems instead of seeing the potential possibilities for growth. If we view obstacles with this different set of "glasses," we liberate our children from avoiding obstacles. We need to trust that our children are on an unpredictable journey-one that we cannot and should not try to control even when they hit a rough spot. To interfere with that journey, obstacles and all, we take away their opportunity t o work through it. We need to say to our children more often, "Sounds like you are struggling, what are you going to do about it?"
Priority #6 Allowing Obstacles to Become Opportunities? Do these "opportunities" also include the faculty taking sexual advantage of the students?
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Ursus on October 01, 2007, 01:34:03 PM
Well, like someone said when they asked Malcolm Gauld how he would react if this happened to his daughter...
Quote from: ""Hydemom""
When confronting Malcolm by phone and asking how he would like it if it had happened to his daughter, his response was, "my daughter could handle it."
I suppose this is due to the superior upbringing of the Gauld children.
And I suppose that the "fault" of what happens to other children re. sexual predation at Hyde comes right back to the kid, for not having "handled it" properly, and to the parents, for not having taught their kids how to "handle it."
Yet, when are you supposed to learn these things? During your teenage years, right?
And during what time of their lives are kids at Hyde? Their teenage years, right?
What does Hyde tell parents re. bringing up their kids during their time at Hyde?
Hyde creates a very intensive growth cocoon focused on character development that seeks to help students: 1) transcend their animal instincts; 2) combat negative family dynamics, and 3) create a new youth culture committed to each student's best.
Since kids--and their parents--have been far more immersed in this counter growth culture than has Hyde, Hyde can be far more objective about how to best address the true growth needs of kids. And given the limited time available, Hyde insists on being the final judge on growth issues. We are in a better position than parents to determine a student's true best, and further we consider our commitment to help each student realize that best a sacred trust.
-- Joseph Gauld, 2002 http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.ph ... 46#p251246 (http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=17336&p=251246#p251246)[/list]
There's a serious logical disconnect going on here. Hyde can't have it both ways.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Ed Legg on October 01, 2007, 01:46:05 PM
Quote from: ""Ursus""
Well, like someone said when they asked Malcolm Gauld how he would react if this happened to his daughter...
Quote from: ""Hydemom""
When confronting Malcolm by phone and asking how he would like it if it had happened to his daughter, his response was, "my daughter could handle it."
I suppose this is due to the superior upbringing of the Gauld children.
And I suppose that the "fault" of what happens to other children re. sexual predation at Hyde comes right back to the kid, for not having "handled it" properly, and to the parents, for not having taught their kids how to "handle it."
Yet, when are you supposed to learn these things? During your teenage years, right?
And during what time of their lives are kids at Hyde? Their teenage years, right?
What does Hyde tell parents re. bringing up their kids during their time at Hyde?
Hyde creates a very intensive growth cocoon focused on character development that seeks to help students: 1) transcend their animal instincts; 2) combat negative family dynamics, and 3) create a new youth culture committed to each student's best.
Since kids--and their parents--have been far more immersed in this counter growth culture than has Hyde, Hyde can be far more objective about how to best address the true growth needs of kids. And given the limited time available, Hyde insists on being the final judge on growth issues. We are in a better position than parents to determine a student's true best, and further we consider our commitment to help each student realize that best a sacred trust. -- Joseph Gauld, 2002 http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17336&start=14 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17336&start=14)[/list] There's a serious logical disconnect going on here. Hyde can't have it both ways.
God's holy trousers! You can't find logic in the way Hyde is put together. The whole shootin' match is just the instincts and twitches from old Joe's limbic system with post facto rationalization window dressin'. I was tryin' to clean that hog pen full 'a shit when they canned me.
Hugs and Kisses
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Joseph W. Gauld on October 01, 2007, 02:21:23 PM
Oh, RIGHT, you ol' long-legged fishhead!!! Like you never let your animal instincts get the better of you, ah? Oh, nnnoooo... you're way too cool fer that! ...NOT!!!
You made pah-lenty of mistakes in your day, my old friend. You've just got some selective memory going on here. We were a TEAM, at one point, you and me... Like when we sucker punched that dumbass Larry Willworth, or what was his name? Poor guy, I almost felt sorry for him, but it was time to rev up some school spirit, and he was the most expendable, heh heh.
Them were the days... You can't tell me you didn't get a rush out of that one, ah? Har har har!!!
Thinking of Hawaii, Joseph "animal-instincts" Gauld, The Educator
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Ed Legg on October 01, 2007, 02:56:59 PM
Well, you got me there. I would have to fess up lovin' them old community witch burnins. Kinda reminded me of the days back in Texas when .....
Hugs and Kisses
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on October 01, 2007, 03:04:22 PM
Quote from: ""Ursus""
Priority #6 Allow Obstacles To Become Opportunities (http://http://web.archive.org/web/20031219074437/www.biggestjob.org/priority_06.html)
How do we view obstacles? We can get caught up in trying to "fix" problems instead of seeing the potential possibilities for growth. If we view obstacles with this different set of "glasses," we liberate our children from avoiding obstacles. We need to trust that our children are on an unpredictable journey-one that we cannot and should not try to control even when they hit a rough spot. To interfere with that journey, obstacles and all, we take away their opportunity t o work through it. We need to say to our children more often, "Sounds like you are struggling, what are you going to do about it?"
Priority 6 presupposes courage. Hyde prides itself on teaching courage; it is one of the Five Words. But just try fighting back when Paul Hurd is beating you up. Try defending a girl's right to remain silent in a discovery group when she does not wish to describe her rape. Try challenging Joe Gauld's authority. Yes, Hyde teaches courage, very narrowly defined. What everybody who's been through the Hyde experience knows is that Hyde teaches the cowardice of conformity.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on October 02, 2007, 12:46:31 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Priority 6 presupposes courage. Hyde prides itself on teaching courage; it is one of the Five Words. But just try fighting back when Paul Hurd is beating you up. Try defending a girl's right to remain silent in a discovery group when she does not wish to describe her rape. Try challenging Joe Gauld's authority. Yes, Hyde teaches courage, very narrowly defined. What everybody who's been through the Hyde experience knows is that Hyde teaches the cowardice of conformity.
Hyde teaches us to submit to its physical, emotional, and sexual abuses. It teaches us to acquiese. It teaches us to collaborate. It takes away our last shred of self-respect. It remakes us in its image. It commends our courage and integrity.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on October 02, 2007, 02:26:59 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Priority 6 presupposes courage. Hyde prides itself on teaching courage; it is one of the Five Words. But just try fighting back when Paul Hurd is beating you up. Try defending a girl's right to remain silent in a discovery group when she does not wish to describe her rape. Try challenging Joe Gauld's authority. Yes, Hyde teaches courage, very narrowly defined. What everybody who's been through the Hyde experience knows is that Hyde teaches the cowardice of conformity.
Hyde teaches us to submit to its physical, emotional, and sexual abuses. It teaches us to acquiese. It teaches us to collaborate. It takes away our last shred of self-respect. It remakes us in its image. It commends our courage and integrity.
... and leadership.
Hyde understands that certain qualities that parents look for in their children, namely, courage, integrity, and leadership, are incompatible with the Hyde process. And so Hyde makes these three of the Five Principles, paints them on all the walls, and makes them part of the daily lexicon. Unless the student is an imbecile, she will sooner or later realize that she has been brainwashed.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on October 02, 2007, 02:58:46 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Unless the student is an imbecile, she will sooner or later realize that she has been brainwashed.
Why "she is an imbecile?" Why not "he is an imbecile?"
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on October 02, 2007, 03:20:17 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Unless the student is an imbecile, she will sooner or later realize that she has been brainwashed.
Why "she is an imbecile?" Why not "he is an imbecile?"
I was being politically correct.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Ursus on October 02, 2007, 08:15:31 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Unless the student is an imbecile, she will sooner or later realize that she has been brainwashed.
Why "she is an imbecile?" Why not "he is an imbecile?"
I was being politically correct.
I think the goal of the "politically correct" aspect would be to be all inclusive or, at the very least, non-excluding. So, if you really want to get nit-picky, the proper form would be "he or she," or "he/she." I don't think the order makes much difference; just use whichever rolls off the tongue better given the rest of the sentence, etc. etc. etc.
Of course I would know this, since I am such a well-adjusted and sensitive individual... NOT!! Ha ha haaa!! Must be all that time spent soaking in the Hyde sunshine...
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on October 02, 2007, 08:38:44 AM
Quote from: ""Ursus""
I think the goal of the "politically correct" aspect would be to be all inclusive or, at the very least, non-excluding. So, if you really want to get nit-picky, the proper form would be "he or she," or "he/she." I don't think the order makes much difference; just use whichever rolls off the tongue better given the rest of the sentence, etc. etc. etc.
Don't you mean "she or he," or "she/he"? In academia, it seems the formula is shortened to "she," and "he" is introduced if there is a second person, making it a useful distinction between, say, principal and agent in an economics paper.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Ursus on October 02, 2007, 08:51:36 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Ursus""
I think the goal of the "politically correct" aspect would be to be all inclusive or, at the very least, non-excluding. So, if you really want to get nit-picky, the proper form would be "he or she," or "he/she." I don't think the order makes much difference; just use whichever rolls off the tongue better given the rest of the sentence, etc. etc. etc.
Don't you mean "she or he," or "she/he"? In academia, it seems the formula is shortened to "she," and "he" is introduced if there is a second person, making it a useful distinction between, say, principal and agent in an economics paper.
In common usage, it had been my impression that the order appears to be more or less determined by what sounds better given the contextual surrounds... Of course, I cannot vouch for what goes on in higher echelons of greater learning, at least in this realm, and from the sounds of it, it may well be that the protocol has drifted into a greater degree of fine-tuning than I had been aware of. Interesting.
Well, as a wise somebody once said to me: "Ya ain't gonna learn anything new 'till you're willing ta make a fool of yourself!"
Personally, I like more emphasis on the 2nd syllable than on the first, which is why I wrote it the way that I did. Starting the sequence off with a "sh" sound with too many syllables after it is more laborious for a bear's tongue.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Ursus on October 02, 2007, 09:10:18 AM
Onward, fornits fomentors...
The thinking in this one is so disorganized I have a hard time getting what the hell they are talking about. Seems almost like they are just mixing Hyde lingo around 'till it sounds good. But the meaning is still gibberish.
This is such a typical lame Hyde sophism: "Often, we need to choose the path that presents the most challenge." Whatever happened to the path that happens to be the right one, challenge or no challenge? Whatever happened to common sense?
Gag me.
============================
Priority #7 Taking Hold And Letting Go (http://http://web.archive.org/web/20031219141113/www.biggestjob.org/priority_07.html)
When should we step in and help? When should we close our mouths and step away? This is one of the toughest parenting dilemmas. Often, we need to choose the path that presents the most challenge. If we are lecturing our children, chances are they are not fully listening. If our "gut" is churning and we are unsure about rocking the boat, chances are we need to take hold of the situation by getting involved. One action works off the other. Taking hold helps the letting go process and vice versa.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on October 02, 2007, 09:12:46 AM
Quote from: ""Ursus""
[In common usage, it had been my impression that the order appears to be more or less determined by what sounds better given the contextual surrounds... Of course, I cannot vouch for what goes on in higher echelons of greater learning, at least in this realm, and from the sounds of it, it may well be that the protocol has drifted into a greater degree of fine-tuning than I had been aware of. Interesting.
By common usage I'm hoping you don't mean spoken English. I've been out of the States for ages, and I'd have to break quite a few habits in my everyday sidewalk English.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: hanzomon4 on October 02, 2007, 09:36:55 AM
I try to use she instead of he just because there's no good reason not to.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on October 02, 2007, 05:00:46 PM
Quote from: ""Ursus""
Onward, fornits fomentors...
The thinking in this one is so disorganized I have a hard time getting what the hell they are talking about. Seems almost like they are just mixing Hyde lingo around 'till it sounds good. But the meaning is still gibberish.
This is such a typical lame Hyde sophism: "Often, we need to choose the path that presents the most challenge." Whatever happened to the path that happens to be the right one, challenge or no challenge? Whatever happened to common sense?
Gag me.
============================
Priority #7 Taking Hold And Letting Go (http://http://web.archive.org/web/20031219141113/www.biggestjob.org/priority_07.html)
When should we step in and help? When should we close our mouths and step away? This is one of the toughest parenting dilemmas. Often, we need to choose the path that presents the most challenge. If we are lecturing our children, chances are they are not fully listening. If our "gut" is churning and we are unsure about rocking the boat, chances are we need to take hold of the situation by getting involved. One action works off the other. Taking hold helps the letting go process and vice versa.
I spose being screamed at by Hydites with religious sermon about a lack of character isnt exactly a "lecture", but chances are i'm not gonna want to listen either.,
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on October 02, 2007, 05:28:43 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Ursus""
Onward, fornits fomentors...
The thinking in this one is so disorganized I have a hard time getting what the hell they are talking about. Seems almost like they are just mixing Hyde lingo around 'till it sounds good. But the meaning is still gibberish.
This is such a typical lame Hyde sophism: "Often, we need to choose the path that presents the most challenge." Whatever happened to the path that happens to be the right one, challenge or no challenge? Whatever happened to common sense?
Gag me.
============================
Priority #7 Taking Hold And Letting Go (http://http://web.archive.org/web/20031219141113/www.biggestjob.org/priority_07.html)
When should we step in and help? When should we close our mouths and step away? This is one of the toughest parenting dilemmas. Often, we need to choose the path that presents the most challenge. If we are lecturing our children, chances are they are not fully listening. If our "gut" is churning and we are unsure about rocking the boat, chances are we need to take hold of the situation by getting involved. One action works off the other. Taking hold helps the letting go process and vice versa.
I spose being screamed at by Hydites with religious sermon about a lack of character isnt exactly a "lecture", but chances are i'm not gonna want to listen either.,
I suppose if you are completely clueless, that is a message you need to hear. Kids don't listen when you lecture? Really? I did not notice that. You should be involved in your kids life? Really? I thought I would just get cable and plop them down in from of the TV. I agree with the previous poster that said "what about the right path." IF you could live your life by trite two line inspirational messages the guys at Hallmark would be gurus.
Here is one I read in Gail Shapiro's dorm room: "A moments insight is worth a life time of experience."
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Ursus on October 02, 2007, 07:32:21 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Here is one I read in Gail Shapiro's dorm room: "A moments insight is worth a life time of experience."
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on October 03, 2007, 02:17:43 AM
Quote from: ""Ursus""
Priority #7 Taking Hold And Letting Go (http://http://web.archive.org/web/20031219141113/www.biggestjob.org/priority_07.html)
When should we step in and help? When should we close our mouths and step away? This is one of the toughest parenting dilemmas. Often, we need to choose the path that presents the most challenge. If we are lecturing our children, chances are they are not fully listening. If our "gut" is churning and we are unsure about rocking the boat, chances are we need to take hold of the situation by getting involved. One action works off the other. Taking hold helps the letting go process and vice versa.
In a distant, timeless place, a mysterious prophet walks the sands. At the moment of his departure, he wishes to offer the people gifts but possesses nothing. The people gather round, each asks a question of the heart, and the man's wisdom is his gift. It is Gibran's gift to us, as well, for Gibran's prophet is rivaled in his wisdom only by the founders of the world's great religions. On the most basic topics--marriage, children, friendship, work, pleasure--his words have a power and lucidity that in another era would surely have provoked the description "divinely inspired." Free of dogma, free of power structures and metaphysics, consider these poetic, moving aphorisms a 20th-century supplement to all sacred traditions--as millions of other readers already have. --Brian Bruya
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Ursus on October 03, 2007, 03:14:35 AM
Somehow, when I read The Prophet, I get a different interpretation than Hyde School does. In fact, I totally don't get why they seem to hold him in such high esteem, since my own experience of the place would suggest that much of their philosophy is antithetical to Kahlil Gibran's.
At first I thought that they were just trying to jump on some kind of bandwagon of popularity the book has enjoyed. In fact, I still think that.
It is perhaps the worst and most insulting kind of plagiarism there is. On some subliminal level they respond to it, and they certainly see that the rest of the world does, so they try to incorporate the cadence of the words and the philosophy in some fashion to illicit that sympathy. But it doesn't quite work. They can't paraphrase so that the sentences approach a logical sequence, or at least hold together in meaning or subject. And the resultant mish-mash clearly bears no relation to what they practice or what they preach.
They should have stuck with what Joe Gauld does, who started this whole farce, and just use Gibran's quotes to start new paragraphs in books. People will still not get it then either, but at least it will be held separate.
Too bad Gibran isn't still alive to sue, ha ha!
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on October 03, 2007, 03:39:17 AM
Quote from: ""Ursus""
Somehow, when I read The Prophet, I get a different interpretation than Hyde School does. In fact, I totally don't get why they seem to hold him in such high esteem, since my own experience of the place would suggest that much of their philosophy is antithetical to Kahlil Gibran's.
At first I thought that they were just trying to jump on some kind of bandwagon of popularity the book has enjoyed. In fact, I still think that.
It is perhaps the worst and most insulting kind of plagiarism there is. On some subliminal level they respond to it, and they certainly see that the rest of the world does, so they try to incorporate the cadence of the words and the philosophy in some fashion to illicit that sympathy. But it doesn't quite work. They can't paraphrase so that the sentences approach a logical sequence, or at least hold together in meaning or subject. And the resultant mish-mash clearly bears no relation to what they practice or what they preach.
They should have stuck with what Joe Gauld does, who started this whole farce, and just use Gibran's quotes to start new paragraphs in books. People will still not get it then either, but at least it will be held separate.
Too bad Gibran isn't still alive to sue, ha ha!
I can't comment on The Prophet. Joe killed any desire in me to read it. I heard enough in school meetings to convince me that it's kitsch and a poor substitute for religion or philosophy.
As for Joe, I think he identifies seriously with the idea of being a Gibranian prophet, much as Hitler identified with the idea of being a Wagnerian Messiah. To each his own. Malcolm and Laura, judging from their literary pretensions, seem to have caught the prophet bug too.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Ursus on October 03, 2007, 04:28:04 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
I can't comment on The Prophet. Joe killed any desire in me to read it. I heard enough in school meetings to convince me that it's kitsch and a poor substitute for religion or philosophy.
As for Joe, I think he identifies seriously with the idea of being a Gibranian prophet, much as Hitler identified with the idea of being a Wagnerian Messiah. To each his own. Malcolm and Laura, judging from their literary pretensions, seem to have caught the prophet bug too.
I tried reading The Prophet several times at different points in my life, but made slow headway for similar reasons. To be fair, I won't dismiss it outright as kitsch, but it simply just isn't my style and moreover, carries some bad associations with it. However, I have read enough to know that the Gauldian pretensions are of far inferior ilk and completely miss the mark.
You point out an aspect of Hyde's interest in the book perhaps more applicable than mere market cache, namely the aspirations to "prophetdom." This is so true!
There was a time in the 70's when Hyde tried to change its focus from being a fix-it school for errant youth to being more of a "school for leaders." All of a sudden, "leadership" became an even hotter buzz word in school meetings and seminars, and kids on the brink of being ousted were told that they just "didn't have leadership potential." I believe this was in large part due to Ed Legg. Certainly those words were spit more from his lips than anyone else's.
Gauld wasn't the only one who aspired to be a prophet, though Gibran wasn't Legg's style. Legg called it "being a leader."
Title: The Profit
Post by: Anonymous on October 03, 2007, 06:54:20 AM
THE crowds gathered at the foot of the Valley. Thousands pushed their way through. The ominous rumbling was heard for miles.
Is he down yet, a merchant selfishly cried. Where can I see him, an old woman shrieked. I have waited for him for over one hundred years, a withered man murmured. The crowd hushed in unison as a glimpse of a figure appeared in the clouded distance. He is here, they whispered.
He looked almost young yet his age was impossible to guess. He was not tall, yet he had many tall ways. As they stared, he sat upon a rock. Quietly folding his arms, he began to speak:
I am here. I am tired. But I will answer your questions. Bring me food, drink, and don't forget a little gold. A little silver for an answer. A drachma for a doubt, a penny for a thought. For I am The Profit and what I have learned has cost me ten lifetimes. What you are about to learn has cost you two dollars and fifty cents.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on October 03, 2007, 07:38:24 AM
Quote from: ""Ursus""
Quote from: ""Guest""
I can't comment on The Prophet. Joe killed any desire in me to read it. I heard enough in school meetings to convince me that it's kitsch and a poor substitute for religion or philosophy.
As for Joe, I think he identifies seriously with the idea of being a Gibranian prophet, much as Hitler identified with the idea of being a Wagnerian Messiah. To each his own. Malcolm and Laura, judging from their literary pretensions, seem to have caught the prophet bug too.
I tried reading The Prophet several times at different points in my life, but made slow headway for similar reasons. To be fair, I won't dismiss it outright as kitsch, but it simply just isn't my style and moreover, carries some bad associations with it. However, I have read enough to know that the Gauldian pretensions are of far inferior ilk and completely miss the mark.
You point out an aspect of Hyde's interest in the book perhaps more applicable than mere market cache, namely the aspirations to "prophetdom." This is so true!
There was a time in the 70's when Hyde tried to change its focus from being a fix-it school for errant youth to being more of a "school for leaders." All of a sudden, "leadership" became an even hotter buzz word in school meetings and seminars, and kids on the brink of being ousted were told that they just "didn't have leadership potential." I believe this was in large part due to Ed Legg. Certainly those words were spit more from his lips than anyone else's.
Gauld wasn't the only one who aspired to be a prophet, though Gibran wasn't Legg's style. Legg called it "being a leader."
Legg and Gauld are not monsters. Hyde is an extension of normal human behavior and not another planet. I abstain from melodramatic and pornographic descriptions of Hyde out of a conviction of the ordinariness of the personalities involved. Indeed, the students are just as wicked as Legg and Gauld. Hyde lacks unique potential: it can be repeated anytime, anywhere, by anyone.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on October 03, 2007, 10:04:46 AM
Quote
it can be repeated anytime, anywhere, by anyone.
I think it take a certain type to start an enterprise like Hyde. There is nothing monstrously unique about Joe. I it has been pointed out that he has some of the same personality traits as Adolf Shickebruber. A lot of driven leader/visionary types do. Whether there actions are just or unjust is a different matter from the things that drive them. In the big picture it is hard to know if Hyde does more harm then good. IT professes to do good yet many that have experienced it claim to be left unaffected or worst of for the experience. It certainly does not rise to the level of having triangle stitched on your chothing
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Ursus on October 03, 2007, 10:27:08 AM
While Hyde may be an extension of human behavior, and Joe Gauld and Ed Legg are human beings, what they wrought with the creation of Hyde School was monstrous for some of us. (Hitler was a human being too, and, by some accounts, allegedly a descendant of the Rothschild family.). One can also certainly wonder about what the residual effect of witnessing such diabolicalness had on those overlooked by these monstrous graces, perhaps even on those singled out for benefit from their version of stardom.
While the actions of some of the students may have seemed as wicked as those from the higher-ups at Hyde, and perhaps in some cases even were, these students did not benefit from dozens of years of life experience to put that shit into perspective. Let's use some common sense here. While I may or may not have liked some of my peers or what "mischief" they were up to then, what they did whilst held in the fever of the Lord of the Flies holds far less weight with me than the originators of the formula responsible for creating those conditions in the first place.
If Hyde "can be repeated anytime, anywhere, by anyone," then we are in trouble. The development of Hyde School rode on the coattails of many historical events and cultural trends. From the existence of juvenile delinquency courts and military schools, through AA and the development of therapeutic communities (TCs) and all that they spawned, the whole concept of "tough love" that arose out of the Great Drug War that we are still dealing with today, not to mention societal dissatisfaction with previously held cultural norms of the 1960's, as well as people's penchant for easily digested two-sentence sophisms...
Hyde was always very careful to exert methods which could glide under the radar at any given time. There were always examples of people being treated far worse at any said point in history. This only makes Hyde all the more dangerous, in my opinion. They capitalize on the alleged credence given by the passage of time. Programs that exist longer, tend to be believed more. They do "the Nixon mantra" and outlast their critics. What they haven't counted on, however, is people being able to follow their dirty laundry over the course of decades, and being able to piece together their true intent.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on October 03, 2007, 11:04:08 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote
it can be repeated anytime, anywhere, by anyone.
I think it take a certain type to start an enterprise like Hyde. There is nothing monstrously unique about Joe. I it has been pointed out that he has some of the same personality traits as Adolf Shickebruber. A lot of driven leader/visionary types do. Whether there actions are just or unjust is a different matter from the things that drive them. In the big picture it is hard to know if Hyde does more harm then good. IT professes to do good yet many that have experienced it claim to be left unaffected or worst of for the experience. It certainly does not rise to the level of having triangle stitched on your chothing
You are very perceptive. I was indeed thinking of the Holocaust when I wrote my comment about that banality of evil that is Hyde. It was not my intention to offend you or anyone else by the comparison. God knows, I lost most of my family in the Holocaust. I know as well as anyone that the Holocaust is not a subject to be treated lightly. I apologize if I have offended you by my insensitivity. But hey, what is this? The SS?
There are so many points of contact between Hyde and a German concentration camp that I am inclined to see the school as Auschwitz without ovens. I know this is a radical statement. And it goes a lot deeper than the Gauld/Hitler analogy. To repeat my earlier post, Hyde teaches us to submit to its physical, emotional, and sexual abuses; it teaches us to acquiesce; it teaches us to collaborate; it takes away our last shred of self-respect; it remakes us in its image; and it brainwashes us into believing that this has taught us courage, integrity, and leadership. No, there are no Jewish stars, but once there were leashes, signs, badges, and shaved heads, and today there is still pariah status for conscientious objectors, the social equivalent of the Jewish star. To avoid pariah status, one must contribute to the efficient operation of the system. Perhaps it would be more accurate to say that Hyde is Auschwitz with the ovens, and our identities going up the chimneys.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on October 03, 2007, 11:18:04 AM
Quote from: ""Ursus""
While the actions of some of the students may have seemed as wicked as those from the higher-ups at Hyde, and perhaps in some cases even were, these students did not benefit from dozens of years of life experience to put that shit into perspective. Let's use some common sense here. While I may or may not have liked some of my peers or what "mischief" they were up to then, what they did whilst held in the fever of the Lord of the Flies holds far less weight with me than the originators of the formula responsible for creating those conditions in the first place.
I'm pretty well read in the Holocaust, and frankly this is the first I've heard of Hitler being descended from the Rothschilds. Any references?
I have no quarrel at all, however, with your laying the responsibility at Gauld and Legg's feet. I was merely pointing out that Hyde taught me a lesson about the latent evil in human nature, and how under the right circumstances it can be brought out.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on October 03, 2007, 12:33:27 PM
Quote
Hyde teaches us to submit to its physical, emotional, and sexual abuses; it teaches us to acquiesce; it teaches us to collaborate; it takes away our last shred of self-respect; it remakes us in its image; and it brainwashes us into believing that this has taught us courage, integrity, and leadership.
Wow, It never got under my skin that much. I was thinking red triangle for Freemasons.
Or a black one superimposed on a yellow one for being an blue eye that has has sex with Jews.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Ursus on October 03, 2007, 12:53:48 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
I'm pretty well read in the Holocaust, and frankly this is the first I've heard of Hitler being descended from the Rothschilds. Any references?
There was a collection of evidence and psychological analysis done of Hitler back in the 1930's and 40's by Walter C. Langer of the Office of Strategic Services and others. Much of this was done while Hitler was still alive, and hence relies on interviews with former associates, relatives, etc. as well as hard data sources. The OSS was very interested in knowing who Hitler was, both in what they could use against him, as well as what they might glean from his methodology for their own purposes. From the Preface (http://http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/h/hitler-adolf/oss-papers/text/oss-profile-preface.html):
It is hoped that the study may be helpful in gaining a deeper insight into Adolf Hitler and the German people and that it may serve as a guide for our propaganda activities as well as our future dealings with them.[/list]
This material is now declassified and much of it is now accessible due to the efforts and archiving of the Nizkor Project. I believe there are some 1400 pages of the original OSS material, although I tend to doubt that all of that made it to the internet. If you are unfamiliar with the Nizkor Project, there is a brief description on Wikipedia (http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nizkor_Project), which includes a link to get you to their website (http://http://www.nizkor.org/).
The title page of Langer's OSS material, A Psychological Analysis of Adolph Hitler | His Life and Legend, as found on the Nizkor Project website is HERE (http://http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/h/hitler-adolf/oss-papers/text/profile-index.html). The portion that details the potential Rothschild connection is within the first few pages of the section titled "Hitler | As He Knows Himself (http://http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/h/hitler-adolf/oss-papers/text/oss-profile-04-01.html)":
Adolph's father, Alois Hitler, was the illegitimate son of Maria Anna Schicklgruber. It is generally supposed that the father of Alois Hitler was a Johann Georg Hiedler, a miller's assistant. Alois, however, was not legitimized, and bore his mother's name until he was forty years of age when he changed it to Hitler. Just why this was done is not clear, but it is generally said among the villagers that it was necessary in order to obtain a legacy. Where the legacy came from is unknown. One could suppose that Johann Georg Hiedler relented on his deathbed and left an inheritance to his illegitimate son together with his name. However, it is not clear why he did not legitimise the son when he fineally married the mother thirty-five years earlier. Why the son chose to take the name Hitler instead of Hiedler, if this is the case, is a mystery which remains unsolved. Unfortunately, the date of the death of Hiedler has not been established and consequently we are unable to relate these two events in time. A peculiar series of events prior to Hitler's birth leaves plenty of room for speculation.
There are some people who seriously doubt that Johann Georg Hiedler was the father of Alois. Thyssen and Koehler, for example, claim that Chancellor Dollfuss had ordered the Austrian police to conduct a thorough investigation into the Hitler family. As a result of this investigation a secret document was prepared which proved that Maria Anna Schicklgruber was living in Vienna at the time she conceived. At that time she was employed as a servant in the home of Baron Rothschild. As soon as the family discovered her pregnancy she was sent back to her home in Spital where Alois was born. If it is true that one of the Rothschilds is the real father of Alois Hitler, it would make Adolph a quarter Jew. According to these sources, Adolph Hitler knew of the existence of this document and the incriminating evidence it contained. In order to obtain it he precipitated events in Austria and initiated the assassination of Dollfuss. According to this story, he failed to obtain the document at that time, since Dollfuss had secreted it and, had told Schuschnigg of its whereabouts so that in the event of his death the independence of Austria would remain assured. Several stories of this general character are in circulation.
Those who lend credence to this story point out several factors which seem to favor its plausibility:
(a) That it is unlikely that the miller's assistant in a small village in this district would have very much to leave in the form of a legacy.
(b) That it is strange that Johann Hiedler should not claim the boy until thirty-five years after he had married the mother and the mother had died.
(c) That if the legacy were left by Hiedler on the condition that Alois take his name, it would not have been possible for him to change it to Hitler.
(d) That the intelligence and behavior of Alois, as well as that of his two sons, is completely out of keeping with that usually found in Austrian peasant families. They point out that their ambitiousness and extraordinary political intuition is much more in harmony with the Rothschild tradition.
(e) That Alois Schicklgruber left his home village at an early age to seek his fortune in Vienna where his mother had worked
(f) That it would be peculiar for Alois Hitler, while working as a customs official in Braunau, should choose a Jew named Prinz, of Vienna, to act as Adolph's godfather unless he felt some kinship with the Jews himself.
This is certainly a very intriguing hypothesis and much of Adolph's later behavior could be explained in rather easy terms on this basis. However, it is not absolutely necessary to assume that he had Jewish blood in his veins in order to make a comprehensive picture of his character with its manifoid traits and sentiments. From a purely scientific point of view, therefore, it is sounder not to base our reconstruction on such slim evidence but to seek firmer foundations. Nevertheless, we can leave it as a possibility which requires further verification.[/list]
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on October 03, 2007, 01:47:18 PM
I'm not surprised that scholars have not picked up on Walter Langer's hypothesis that Hitler was 25% Jewish.
First, Langer was a psychologist simply reporting a "hot" rumor, not a historian.
Second, the source of the rumor is of the most unreliable kind. Chancellor Dolfuss of Austria had good reasons to wage psychological war against Hitler. What could be more embarrassing to Hitler than rumors of his Jewish ancestry?
Third, even if it were true that Hitler's grandmother became pregnant while in Baron Rothschild's employ in Vienna, what does this prove?
Fourth, miscegenation was extremely rare among Jews, a Rothschild no less. I'm not saying impossible, just extremely rare.
As rumors go, this is pretty unconvincing stuff.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on October 03, 2007, 02:04:35 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Wow, It never got under my skin that much.
It's getting deep under my skin now. I was "fat, dumb, and happy" then. Well, dumb at any rate.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Ursus on October 03, 2007, 02:11:57 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Wow, It never got under my skin that much.
It's getting deep under my skin now. I was "fat, dumb, and happy" then. Well, dumb at any rate.
It's been under my skin for decades now. A plague of increasing intensity rather than decreasing. That's what 30 years of PTSD will do for you, ha haa!
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Ursus on October 03, 2007, 02:26:38 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
I'm not surprised that scholars have not picked up on Walter Langer's hypothesis that Hitler was 25% Jewish.
First, Langer was a psychologist simply reporting a "hot" rumor, not a historian.
Second, the source of the rumor is of the most unreliable kind. Chancellor Dolfuss of Austria had good reasons to wage psychological war against Hitler. What could be more embarrassing to Hitler than rumors of his Jewish ancestry?
Third, even if it were true that Hitler's grandmother became pregnant while in Baron Rothschild's employ in Vienna, what does this prove?
Fourth, miscegenation was extremely rare among Jews, a Rothschild no less. I'm not saying impossible, just extremely rare.
As rumors go, this is pretty unconvincing stuff.
Chancellor Dolfuss of Austria was not the "source" of that "rumor," merely a corroborating element of it. As to the potential input of Hitler's grandmother -- "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned" perhaps? Who knows as to the whole of it. Barring genetic testing, probably no one will ever know for sure.
As to your charge of miscegenation being rare among the Jews in Germany at this time... I say bullshit. My own lineage is rife with examples of just such type of intermarriage.
Prior to the machinations of the U.S. and Britain in creating the economic depression in Germany following WWI, the Jews were quite happy in Germany. That's why the whole Hitler deal took so many by surprise. They just couldn't believe this was happening, that their friends and neighbors, yes, and relatives, were turning on them like this. Nor could so many Germans believe this was happening. They liked the Jews... ambitious, industrious, smart... hell, who wouldn't?
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on October 03, 2007, 02:40:03 PM
Clemenceau insisted on the punishing clauses at Versailles. Britain and the US were moderate by comparison.
Hitler was a Rothschild! It's too good to be false.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on October 03, 2007, 02:51:58 PM
I think the interesting thing about Adolf is why he allowed the quintessential "jew vermin banker" the Baron Rothschild live. He killed millions of ordinary men and woman, yet here is the the very essence of what Lindberg and the anti Semites railed against and he simply held him as prisoner in His Castle. Rothschild wine was bottled with the Nazi swastika.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on October 03, 2007, 03:15:08 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
I think the interesting thing about Adolf is why he allowed the quintessential "jew vermin banker" the Baron Rothschild live. He killed millions of ordinary men and woman, yet here is the the very essence of what Lindberg and the anti Semites railed against and he simply held him as prisoner in His Castle. Rothschild wine was bottled with the Nazi swastika.
I consider it virulently antisemitic and offensive to make Jews responsible for the Holocaust. And indeed, Google "Hitler" and "Rothschild" to find out who lends credence to Langer's reported rumor that Hitler was a Rothschild. Ursus, didn't you urge common sense?
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Ursus on October 03, 2007, 03:43:46 PM
At the time of the creation of the OSS doc, surviving members of Hitler's family were:
older half-brother Alois Jr.
William Patrick Hitler, son of Alois Jr. and his first wife (British)
older half-sister Angela (only living relative Hitler ever mentioned and had contact with in later years, later became a Jew sympathizer)
Geli Raubel, Angela's daughter, d. 1930
Leo Raubel, Angela's son, refused to have anything to do with Adolf due to his holding him responsible for Geli's death, reputedly d. 1942
reputed older sister Ida (or "Klara") -- kept hidden by the family due to "imbecility"
Adolf
younger sister Paula
Virtually none of these people had little if anything to do with Adolf Hitler from perhaps the mid 1930's onwards. Nor did he much acknowledge their existence. Nice set of family values there. Shows just how much stock he placed in breeding, pun intended.
===================
Quote from: ""Guest""
I consider it virulently antisemitic and offensive to make Jews responsible for the Holocaust.
I find it an incredible stretch to come to that conclusion from the discussion thus far, whether or not Hitler did, or did not, have Rothschild blood in him. We are talking about one incredible sick bastard here, who transcends any ordinary human being's conception of "vile" or "evil." I don't think that there is any race or culture that you can say definitively breeds this type of beast; nor do I think you can say that there is any race or culture that definitively can not breed this type of beast.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on October 03, 2007, 03:48:01 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""
I think the interesting thing about Adolf is why he allowed the quintessential "jew vermin banker" the Baron Rothschild live. He killed millions of ordinary men and woman, yet here is the the very essence of what Lindberg and the anti Semites railed against and he simply held him as prisoner in His Castle. Rothschild wine was bottled with the Nazi swastika.
I consider it virulently antisemitic and offensive to make Jews responsible for the Holocaust. And indeed, Google "Hitler" and "Rothschild" to find out who lends credence to Langer's reported rumor that Hitler was a Rothschild. Ursus, didn't you urge common sense?
Who said Jews caused the Holocaust? I just pose the question: Why didn't he kill the Baron? There are a number of other troubling questions along that vein surrounding the interests of commerce during WWII such as why were American and German divisions of GE and GM doing business through the neutral ports of Spain?
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on October 03, 2007, 04:00:34 PM
The thing that is truly frightening for humanity as a whole is not the evil of Hitler and the people that surrounded him, it is their banality. They are not that unusual. We, in the US, have narrowly avoided being drawn in by people that had the same potential. We have seen mass murder on the same order of magnitude since Adolf. We see smaller versions of it around the world currently. The thing that is amazing it that it does not happen more often.
So back to the subject:
Being placed in the back seat of Mommy and Daddy's car and driven to Bath is not the same as being driven out of Phom Phen to a re-education camp or packed into a cattle car.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Ursus on October 03, 2007, 04:01:01 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Who said Jews caused the Holocaust? I just pose the question: Why didn't he kill the Baron? There are a number of other troubling questions along that vein surrounding the interests of commerce during WWII such as why were American and German divisions of GE and GM doing business through the neutral ports of Spain?
Why didn't he kill the Baron? Was he family? Maybe he represented a certain intelligentsia cache that Hitler wanted to associate himself with? Maybe he supplied something, like wine, that Hitler wanted a continued supply of? I do not know...
As to your other question, the Americans made their allegiances quite clear when they imported a certain number of Nazi criminals and sympathizers for Think Tank material after the war. Those people lived out the rest of their lives in the good old U.S.A. or near enough close by for easy brain picking. The Jewish question was minor league compared with the economic interests or the political maneuvering going on at the time. Think Bayer aspirin, and that is but the most politically benign tip of the iceberg. And Spain wasn't so neutral.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on October 03, 2007, 04:07:56 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""
I think the interesting thing about Adolf is why he allowed the quintessential "jew vermin banker" the Baron Rothschild live. He killed millions of ordinary men and woman, yet here is the the very essence of what Lindberg and the anti Semites railed against and he simply held him as prisoner in His Castle. Rothschild wine was bottled with the Nazi swastika.
I consider it virulently antisemitic and offensive to make Jews responsible for the Holocaust. And indeed, Google "Hitler" and "Rothschild" to find out who lends credence to Langer's reported rumor that Hitler was a Rothschild. Ursus, didn't you urge common sense?
Who said Jews caused the Holocaust? I just pose the question: Why didn't he kill the Baron? There are a number of other troubling questions along that vein surrounding the interests of commerce during WWII such as why were American and German divisions of GE and GM doing business through the neutral ports of Spain?
Who said Jews caused the Holocaust and the Second World War? Anyone who says Hitler was a Jew (part Jew is good enough). Who spread that rumor? Austrian leadership waging a psychological war against Hitler. Why did Hitler let Baron Rothschild live. Maybe it had something to do with money. Or was it more of that Hitler filial devotion? Who believes Hitler is a Jew nowadays? Antisemites. Should we believe it too? Why not? Who can disprove it. Should we believe your mother was a whore? Why not? Who can disprove it?
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Ursus on October 03, 2007, 04:11:48 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Being placed in the back seat of Mommy and Daddy's car and driven to Bath is not the same as being driven out of Phom Phen to a re-education camp or packed into a cattle car.
No, it isn't. But I've been dealing with PTSD and more for 30+ years and I'm pissed.
Quote from: ""Guest""
The thing that is truly frightening for humanity as a whole is not the evil of Hitler and the people that surrounded him, it is their banality. They are not that unusual. We, in the US, have narrowly avoided being drawn in by people that had the same potential. We have seen mass murder on the same order of magnitude since Adolf. We see smaller versions of it around the world currently. The thing that is amazing it that it does not happen more often..
Forewarned is forearmed. Let the truth set you free. A public educated with the facts is less likely to make the same mistake.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on October 03, 2007, 07:30:46 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""
I think the interesting thing about Adolf is why he allowed the quintessential "jew vermin banker" the Baron Rothschild live. He killed millions of ordinary men and woman, yet here is the the very essence of what Lindberg and the anti Semites railed against and he simply held him as prisoner in His Castle. Rothschild wine was bottled with the Nazi swastika.
I consider it virulently antisemitic and offensive to make Jews responsible for the Holocaust. And indeed, Google "Hitler" and "Rothschild" to find out who lends credence to Langer's reported rumor that Hitler was a Rothschild. Ursus, didn't you urge common sense?
Who said Jews caused the Holocaust? I just pose the question: Why didn't he kill the Baron? There are a number of other troubling questions along that vein surrounding the interests of commerce during WWII such as why were American and German divisions of GE and GM doing business through the neutral ports of Spain?
Who said Jews caused the Holocaust and the Second World War? Anyone who says Hitler was a Jew (part Jew is good enough). Who spread that rumor? Austrian leadership waging a psychological war against Hitler. Why did Hitler let Baron Rothschild live. Maybe it had something to do with money. Or was it more of that Hitler filial devotion? Who believes Hitler is a Jew nowadays? Antisemites. Should we believe it too? Why not? Who can disprove it. Should we believe your mother was a whore? Why not? Who can disprove it?
I don't think Adolf was a Jew. Did he go to Temple? Did he marry a Jewish girl? Now Mel Brooks, married a shikse don't think he went to temple but I think a Jew. TTBOMK mom gave it up to dad for free.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on October 03, 2007, 07:38:09 PM
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on October 03, 2007, 08:02:52 PM
in case you cant watch the embed..
HITLER RAP http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yu2NqfISm9k (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yu2NqfISm9k)
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on October 03, 2007, 08:31:20 PM
Bankers have always made money from the waging of wars. The fact that Rothschild was Jewish is a coincident of history, a history that started with the financing of the great cathedrals of Europe. There were a number of US bankers, non-jews that made a bundle in WWII. Money is what let Phillip slip out of Europe. Money is what the US involvement in WWII was about. The US and Anglo interest are/were intertwined. We could not tolerate a fallen GB. We could not tolerate the British empire fallen to Japan. German aspirations were the same as they were in WWI. They want take a bigger piece of the pie. That pie was controlled by our economic ally GB. That is why we got into WWI. The Lusitania was like the Maine like the yellow cake and the WoMD. Unfortunately we in the US are no longer attracting candidates to the CEO chair the caliber of Woodrow Wilson, FDR or McKinley. Bush and Rumsfeld , who bares a frightening likeness to Robert McNamara , couldn't get laid in a Thai whore house with a hundred dollar bill. Too bad. I hope we recover. I like life in New Rome.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Ursus on October 03, 2007, 09:07:55 PM
Mel Brooks has been making fun of Hitler via musicals for a long time. (Thanks for that clip, BTW). Anybody remember watching "The Producers" at Hyde? I think that was a double feature with "Reefer Madness." Wonder how that selection slipped through the censors that be... ha ha haaa! Perhaps they meant for us to take it literally, but who in their right mind could?
Springtime for Hitler (http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyUbRPv-BM8) (1968)
Spring Time for Hitler 2005 (http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4v6qRdnKas) (Susan Stroman 2005 remake)
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on October 04, 2007, 12:15:14 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
I don't think Adolf was a Jew. Did he go to Temple? Did he marry a Jewish girl? Now Mel Brooks, married a shikse don't think he went to temple but I think a Jew.
Good. You have more seichal than that meshuggener putz in the bear suit.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on October 04, 2007, 03:00:09 AM
Quote from: ""Ursus""
Quote from: ""Guest""
I consider it virulently antisemitic and offensive to make Jews responsible for the Holocaust.
I find it an incredible stretch to come to that conclusion from the discussion thus far, whether or not Hitler did, or did not, have Rothschild blood in him. We are talking about one incredible sick bastard here, who transcends any ordinary human being's conception of "vile" or "evil." I don't think that there is any race or culture that you can say definitively breeds this type of beast; nor do I think you can say that there is any race or culture that definitively can not breed this type of beast.
The world is full of Hitlers. The beast is the race or culture that makes him their leader.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Ursus on October 04, 2007, 11:22:41 AM
"Character Culture," otherwise known as the culture of the cult that is Hyde... More lame buzz words to take in those with less than critical thought patterns, or those whose thought patterns have been interrupted by frustration or fear about what their teenager is up to, ha haa!
I also recognize that old 70's refrain, that touchy-feely pseudo therapy, which is still present and recognizable: "who are you? where are you going?" Where are they going with this small collection of sentences and half-sentences? Maybe someone has a better idea just where...?
============================
Priority #8 Create A Character Culture (http://http://web.archive.org/web/20031219142023/www.biggestjob.org/priority_08.html)
There are many other cultures "out there" today that vie for the attention of our kids. One of these is the Achievement Culture that overvalues the outcome and encourages avoidance of risk, challenge and shortcuts. Others are the influence of their peers and the media. We need to teach our kids who they are, where they are going with their lives, and what it will take to get there. We do this by creating a culture of character in our homes and classrooms... laying a foundation that starts with us, as parents and teachers.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on October 04, 2007, 11:56:54 AM
Quote
One of these is the Achievement Culture that overvalues the outcome and encourages avoidance of risk, challenge and shortcuts.
Hey does "avoidance" bind to "risk" and "challenge" but not "shortcuts"?
Normally I would think that this is like 3(x+y+z) = 3x + 3y.+ 3z So it seems like what is being said is : One of these is the Achievement Culture that overvalues the outcome and encourages avoidance shortcuts.
perhaps the mesuggi Bruin has misquoted
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Ursus on October 04, 2007, 12:37:36 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Hey does "avoidance" bind to "risk" and "challenge" but not "shortcuts"?
Normally I would think that this is like 3(x+y+z) = 3x + 3y.+ 3z So it seems like what is being said is : One of these is the Achievement Culture that overvalues the outcome and encourages avoidance shortcuts.
perhaps the mesuggi Bruin has misquoted
Nope, strict copy and paste. Check the link to the source, I always include them (generally = the title). I picked up that gap as well. One of my main complaints and frustrations about this Series is the absolute and utter lack of editing know-how, lack of logic - both in sentence structure and otherwise, not to mention lack of a fundamental grasp of the English language... And yet this is what Hyde deems website material! Pffftttt!
ORIGINAL SENTENCE:
Quote
One of these is the Achievement Culture that overvalues the outcome and encourages avoidance of risk, challenge and shortcuts.
I believe what they meant to say was:
One of these is the Achievement Culture that overvalues the outcome, and encourages avoidance of risk, avoidance of challenge, and shortcuts.[/list] They could also have said it this way:
One of these is the Achievement Culture that overvalues shortcuts and outcome, as well as encourages avoidance of risk and challenge.[/list]
I had to completely rearrange the sentence in the latter example, but its meaning is the clearest. The "overvalued" items have been grouped together, and the "encouraged avoidance" items have been grouped together, with the twain camps separated by a comma.
I suppose one could argue that "shortcuts" qualifies as an "encouraged" item rather than an "overvalued" one, but if you're trying to create a sentence that includes "overvalued," "encouraged avoidance," plus plain old "encouraged" (no avoidance), you're gonna run the risk of mental stumbling on the part of the reader, as is currently the case...
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on October 04, 2007, 12:39:18 PM
My guess is as follows:
One of these is Achievement Culture, in which young people are encouraged to reach the outcome by taking shortcuts while avoiding risks and challenges.
Character culture will be a hard sell if the Gaulds cannot pass high school English proficiency exams.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Ursus on October 04, 2007, 12:53:06 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Character culture will be a hard sell if the Gaulds cannot pass high school English proficiency exams.
I guess they don't have to worry about that. Hyde School does not offer high school English proficiency exams.
But they did offer (for one year, I am told) the possibility of graduating with high honors, or whatever it was then called, the year Laura (Denton) Gauld graduated from Hyde...
I believe only one person ever got that award, although I could be wrong on that point, but we do know for sure... that Laura (Denton) Gauld received this award.
I do believe I am correct in saying that Laura Gauld is the presumed writer of these sagacious snippets of advice and worldly wisdom?
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on October 04, 2007, 01:15:53 PM
Quote from: ""Ursus""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Character culture will be a hard sell if the Gaulds cannot pass high school English proficiency exams.
I guess they don't have to worry about that. Hyde School does not offer high school English proficiency exams.
But they did offer (for one year, I am told) the possibility of graduating with high honors, or whatever it was then called, the year Laura (Denton) Gauld graduated from Hyde...
I believe only one person ever got that award, although I could be wrong on that point, but we do know for sure... that Laura (Denton) Gauld received this award.
I do believe I am correct in saying that Laura Gauld is the presumed writer of these sagacious snippets of advice and worldly wisdom?
She certainly appears to be challenged.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Joseph W. Gauld on October 04, 2007, 01:19:58 PM
Ah, BULLOCKS! ya bull-headed pig-nosed IDIOTS!! I created that award just for Laura, wasn't that clear to the infantile sniveling lot of you?!! She has character, attitude over aptitude, otherwise known as solicitation for a future Headmistress whose loyalties could easily be bought with flattery, har har har!!!
Speaking of Mistresses, anybody hear lately from Laura's good friend Andrea VH? Man, that generation sure did bring lots of goodies to Hyde, on both public as well as private fronts, if ya get my drift, har har har!!! I sure do miss that thick blonde so... such a good natured and trusting soul... heh, heh, heh.
Fucking over the student body, both figuratively and literally, Joseph W. Gauld, The Educator (of mind and body)
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on October 04, 2007, 01:32:23 PM
Andrea seems to have survived her Hyde education and post grad Hyde tutelage pretty well. She has some good press from involvement with non-profits
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on October 04, 2007, 02:02:36 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Ursus""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Character culture will be a hard sell if the Gaulds cannot pass high school English proficiency exams.
I guess they don't have to worry about that. Hyde School does not offer high school English proficiency exams.
But they did offer (for one year, I am told) the possibility of graduating with high honors, or whatever it was then called, the year Laura (Denton) Gauld graduated from Hyde...
I believe only one person ever got that award, although I could be wrong on that point, but we do know for sure... that Laura (Denton) Gauld received this award.
I do believe I am correct in saying that Laura Gauld is the presumed writer of these sagacious snippets of advice and worldly wisdom?
She certainly appears to be challenged.
Who did they have proofread this? That was a pretty obvious GUM gaff. I are an injun neer an I seen it write off. I ain't no english teacher or nothin'.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on October 04, 2007, 02:03:39 PM
Although, perhaps I could teach at Hyde.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Ursus on October 04, 2007, 02:23:16 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Although, perhaps I could teach at Hyde.
As far as I am aware, the only critical criteria for teaching at Hyde is the ability to suck -- HARD -- on a Hyde administrator's anal orifice. This is not to say that all Hyde teachers exhibit this phenotype. But... if you really want to teach at Hyde, and you have no other qualifications than desire alone, I would suggest you polish your puckering up capacities.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on October 04, 2007, 02:36:31 PM
I guess I can't then. I do not give rim.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Ursus on October 04, 2007, 07:28:22 PM
Quote
Priority #8 Create A Character Culture (http://http://web.archive.org/web/20031219142023/www.biggestjob.org/priority_08.html)
There are many other cultures "out there" today that vie for the attention of our kids. One of these is the Achievement Culture that overvalues the outcome and encourages avoidance of risk, challenge and shortcuts. Others are the influence of their peers and the media. We need to teach our kids who they are, where they are going with their lives, and what it will take to get there. We do this by creating a culture of character in our homes and classrooms... laying a foundation that starts with us, as parents and teachers.
What exactly is their problem with achievement? What is wrong with being ambitious and trying to excel at something? Moreover, just how much moolah does Hyde think it'll rake in during its fund raising drives, if everyone were as non-materialistic as Hyde allegedly is, when giving 'till it hurts would squeeze but a few more nickels and dimes than a more flaccid campaign might ordinarily yield?
Does an "achievement culture" necessarily overvalue outcome? Encourage avoidance of risk and challenge? Encourage the taking of shortcuts?
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on October 04, 2007, 09:06:42 PM
How can we teach our children who they are?
Your children are not your children.
They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself.
They come through you but not from you,
And though they are with you, yet they belong not to you.
You may give them your love but not your thoughts.
For they have their own thoughts.
You may house their bodies but not their souls,
For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow, which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.
You may strive to be like them, but seek not to make them like you.
For life goes not backward nor tarries with yesterday.
You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth.
The archer sees the mark upon the path of the infinite, and He bends you with His might that His arrows may go swift and far.
Let your bending in the archer's hand be for gladness;
For even as he loves the arrow that flies, so He loves also the bow that is stable.
What can bow teach an arrow about being an arrow?
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on October 05, 2007, 01:51:59 AM
Quote from: ""Ursus""
Quote
Priority #8 Create A Character Culture (http://http://web.archive.org/web/20031219142023/www.biggestjob.org/priority_08.html)
There are many other cultures "out there" today that vie for the attention of our kids. One of these is the Achievement Culture that overvalues the outcome and encourages avoidance of risk, challenge and shortcuts. Others are the influence of their peers and the media. We need to teach our kids who they are, where they are going with their lives, and what it will take to get there. We do this by creating a culture of character in our homes and classrooms... laying a foundation that starts with us, as parents and teachers.
What exactly is their problem with achievement? What is wrong with being ambitious and trying to excel at something? Moreover, just how much moolah does Hyde think it'll rake in during its fund raising drives, if everyone were as non-materialistic as Hyde allegedly is, when giving 'till it hurts would squeeze but a few more nickels and dimes than a more flaccid campaign might ordinarily yield?
Does an "achievement culture" necessarily overvalue outcome? Encourage avoidance of risk and challenge? Encourage the taking of shortcuts?
There is achievement culture, in which young people are encouraged to reach the outcome by taking shortcuts while avoiding risks and challenges. Then there is character culture, in which young people are encouraged to reach the outcome by taking risks and challenges while avoiding shortcuts. Simply put, those without natural advantages are trained to unseat those with natural advantages. All are fighting for a piece of the pie. There is nothing wrong with Priority 8 in and of itself.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Ursus on October 05, 2007, 02:07:06 AM
I think there is something definitely awry with Hyde's practice of portraying one method as morally superior to the other, and to do so, moreover, without any explanation or attempt at proof or validation. This clearly is communicated in just such a fashion in Priority #8. It is not at all as "neutral" as you would have it appear.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on October 05, 2007, 06:30:59 AM
Quote from: ""Ursus""
I think there is something definitely awry with Hyde's practice of portraying one method as morally superior to the other, and to do so, moreover, without any explanation or attempt at proof or validation. This clearly is communicated in just such a fashion in Priority #8. It is not at all as "neutral" as you would have it appear.
You are right, and in fact this point was troubling me. There is moral coloring already in the names: achievement vs. character culture. The truth is that both cultures are achievement cultures, one with negative, the other with positive moral connotations.
Achievement culture is a stigma reserved for the better students. The assumption is totally wrong because the best students, whether or not they are possessed of natural aptitude, are typically the most motivated, hardest working ones.
Character culture is really about letting nonacademic criteria affect academic evaluations. Top academic performers will have to get used to assessments like this: "Yes, Johnny is a good student who gets 100 on all his tests, but he is lazy and not living up to his potential."
Translation:
"Johnny is an excellent student. He takes pride in his work, participates in class discussions, and loves to be challenged. He demonstrates a wonderful attitude and all the qualities of character that Hyde cherishes. He wishes he had a little free time to read and study, which he feels he is doing way too little of. He wishes the quality of instruction was not so far below what he had enjoyed in public school so that he could once again begin to live up to his potential. However, Johnny hates Hyde. Therefore, I am going to write on all his report cards and college recommendations that Johnny is lazy and not living up to his potential.
Sincerely yours, Johnny's teacher"
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on October 05, 2007, 07:04:57 AM
Quote
There is achievement culture, in which young people are encouraged to reach the outcome by taking shortcuts while avoiding risks and challenges.
That is a bunch of crap. There was a young man that graduated from our local publicly funded "achievement culture" high school. While he was clearly the brightest kid in his class he was not the valedictorian. His senior year consisted almost totally of AP course work in which he he did well, but not well enough to fluff his GPA. HE was dating my daughter and I had several opportunities to talk with him. He is a gifted young man who was aware of his intellectual power and enjoyed using it. He did not avoid challenge. He did not take short cuts and has far as character, I have no qualms about him being with my daughter. This is a statement that could not in good faith make about the majority of the nut job students at Hyde or Hyde's faculty ... especially the faculty.
This #8 is just a false dichotomy cobbled up by Hyde to rationalize the fact that it accepts nut case kids and under performers at 40k per pop.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Ursus on October 06, 2007, 04:03:56 AM
Quote
"Johnny is an excellent student. He takes pride in his work, participates in class discussions, and loves to be challenged. He demonstrates a wonderful attitude and all the qualities of character that Hyde cherishes. He wishes he had a little free time to read and study, which he feels he is doing way too little of. He wishes the quality of instruction was not so far below what he had enjoyed in public school so that he could once again begin to live up to his potential. However, Johnny hates Hyde. Therefore, I am going to write on all his report cards and college recommendations that Johnny is lazy and not living up to his potential.
Sincerely yours, Johnny's teacher"
What kind of "take-home" message does Johnny learn from all this?
Pride in one's work is unrewarded. Intellectual class participation is, in and of itself, unrewarded. Love of intellectual challenge is unrewarded, it may even be punished.
And yet:
Sucking up to teacher gets rewarded. Attacking fellow students for independent and challenging viewpoints gets rewarded. Disinterest in any line of thought that differs from the Hyde position gets rewarded.
In short:
Spouting the party line will buy you a good grade.
If Johnny has any kind of integrity and character at all, he will -- at the very least -- greatly dislike Hyde.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on October 06, 2007, 08:07:26 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
This #8 is just a false dichotomy cobbled up by Hyde to rationalize the fact that it accepts nut case kids and under performers at 40k per pop.
Psychological Offender Profile (POP).
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Ursus on October 06, 2007, 08:56:40 PM
Ha ha! Just when has anyone in their right mind ever pictured Hyde feigning any semblance of "humility?" Now that is a "challenge" they will never rise to, mark my words...
Sloppy formatting too: last bullet is not one of "these questions," but the closing sentence.
============================
Priority #9 [li]When was the last time you really asked for help from someone?[/li] [li]When was the last time you asked for help from your child?[/li] [li]If we can become better at this, our children will trust us at a deeper level and will use us more as a resource.[/li][/list] (http://http://web.archive.org/web/20031219142323/www.biggestjob.org/priority_09.html)
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on October 07, 2007, 07:46:44 AM
Quote from: ""The Gaulds""
Priority #9 [li]When was the last time you really asked for help from someone?[/li] [li]When was the last time you asked for help from your child?[/li] [li]If we can become better at this, our children will trust us at a deeper level and will use us more as a resource.[/li][/list] (http://http://web.archive.org/web/20031219142323/www.biggestjob.org/priority_09.html)
It is reasonable for a professional (doctor, lawyer, etc.) not to seek advice from a client. Hence, it is reasonable for the Hyde professionals not to seek advice from parents, students, and alumni. But who are the Hyde professionals? To quote Malcolm Gauld, at Hyde students have an opportunity to "learn from real teachers and coaches who provide personal advice and counsel on the side, NOT real therapists who teach on the side" (Malcolm's Blog, 10/1/2007). In other words, the Hyde professionals are educators who should not be held to professional psychological standards.
First, are there "real teachers and coaches" at Hyde? It was the case when I was there that real coaches were teachers and real teachers were coaches. From what I gather, that is still the case. What are the professional teaching standards set by The Association of Boarding Schools (TABS) of which Hyde is a member, and does Hyde meet them? This is easy to check. Hyde would lose accreditation if it were found to be in violation of TABS standards.
Second, Hyde professionals are not therapists, but concerned teachers who give "personal advice and counsel on the side." There are several flaws in Malcolm's statement. First, "on the side" suggests that giving advice is a marginal activity, whereas it is the central activity at Hyde: students are subjected to a constant barrage of advice during their daily activities. Malcolm's statement suggests that advice is given in private, whereas it is almost always given in a public forum. Since it is common knowledge, it is intended to influence the way our peers treat us. Malcolm's statement suggests that students and parents receive advice, whereas they are also obligated to give it, however uncomfortable and unqualified they feel. Malcolm's statement suggests that advice is solicited by students and parents, whereas this is rarely the case. Malcolm's statement suggests that advice is given by teachers who are concerned friend, whereas it is often delivered in the most brutal, humiliating, and even traumatic manner imaginable. Finally, one is free to follow advice at will, whereas advice at Hyde is on the order of a command: failure to heed it leads to punitive actions. In light of the peculiarities of this "advice given on the side," shouldn't it be dispensed by certified therapists, or at least regulated by a professional psychological body?
Title: Help me if you can
Post by: Jesus H Christ on October 07, 2007, 11:02:16 AM
Can you really make money, handing out advice like this? Please let me help. I have two kids in college and need cash. Please help. BTW I have asked my kids to help with the bills by working.
JoeSoulBro (I walk the course when I play too)
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Ursus on October 07, 2007, 11:48:00 AM
Good show! Excellent questions and points! I completely agree with the previous poster's comments re. the ghastly misrepresentation that is implied as well as flat out stated in Malcolm's recent blog re. teaching vs. therapy. Care to provide the full text?
Let's get even simpler: teaching qualifications and academic material, since this is the ostensible focus of a "school," and certainly the coattails Hyde rides as to any accreditation going on there...
I can remember taking an English class which essentially consisted of reading several books and then discussing these in class. There were perhaps a half dozen books over the course of the semester. Perhaps we also needed to write a paper or two on one of them, or comparing two of them, at the very end. At least one of the books was a paperback pulp bestseller, salacious enough to make one embarrassed to be caught reading it in public, but maybe that's just my take on it. I think one of my female classmates was responsible for the selection of that one. Not exactly high brow literature, although some of the other books were okay/good choices.
The course was taught by a coach. Nice enough man, but definitely nowhere near his field of choice, pun intended, ha ha. I felt like I had dropped backwards at least two years as far as my academic progress was concerned. The class discussions were painful. Insight and comparison in literature were not rewarded; historical context -- operating at the time of the authorship -- was never provided; holding oneself to grammatical standards in one's writing was never noticed nor judged. Rather... it was one big exercise in finding examples of Hyde's teaching in other contexts. Or, applying our great Hyde facilities for judgment, as in "How might Hyde have done it differently?" To be fair, I don't think the coach's heart was in it. I think he really just didn't know what else to do, and this focus was "suggested" to him by someone higher up.
Before I attended Hyde, I took Geometry. Yet, to my recall, there was never such an "advanced" or "specialized" course ever offered at Hyde the several years that I was there. Has that changed? Perhaps it gets assimilated into "math."
Who accredits Hyde these days?
Title: Re: Help me if you can
Post by: Anonymous on October 07, 2007, 12:05:50 PM
Quote from: ""JoeSoulBro""
Can you really make money, handing out advice like this? Please let me help. I have two kids in college and need cash. Please help. BTW I have asked my kids to help with the bills by working.
JoeSoulBro (I walk the course when I play too)
Dear Joe SoulBro,
Thank you for submitting your application for a professional educator's position at the Hyde School. As the Hyde Schools are the principal force guiding America’s efforts in character education, we have strived to consider every candidate’s application seriously.
Our first impression is not a good one. You have a polite and quiet manner that is an oddity in our network of colleagues, and we found your tendency to say "please" quite distracting and wonder what this reflects of your character.
As your letter continues, we find other characteristics that trouble us. Your bachelor's degree and teaching diploma, while commendable, seem a tad pretentious. Although some of our members thought it wonderful that you have many years of teaching experience, your list of references from "achievement-oriented" boarding schools hardly elicits confidence.
In truth, we fear that your celebrity status may ultimately impede our principal mandate of excellence in character education. To be blunt, your lack of any prior convictions renders you somewhat overqualified to teach character at the Hyde School.
Consequently, we regret to inform you that your application will not be shortlisted for further consideration at this time.
Sincerely yours,
Malcolm Gauld Hiring Committee The Hyde Schools
Title: Rejection letter to JoeSoulBro
Post by: Ursus on October 07, 2007, 12:47:35 PM
::roflmao:: ::roflmao:: ::roflmao:: ::roflmao::
P.S. Your predilection for the field of engineering, with its focus on hard facts and deductive reasoning, gives us great pause. We fear you might ask too many questions, and not be open enough to "trusting the process."
Also, your wicked and insightful jokes do not go over well here. We choose to wield our highly developed sense of humor in a more politically correct fashion, namely, only targeting those with lack character.
Peace, Mal
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on October 07, 2007, 03:25:12 PM
Quote from: ""Ursus""
Ha ha! Just when has anyone in their right mind ever pictured Hyde feigning any semblance of "humility?" Now that is a "challenge" they will never rise to, mark my words...
Sloppy formatting too: last bullet is not one of "these questions," but the closing sentence.
============================
Priority #9 [li]When was the last time you really asked for help from someone?[/li] [li]When was the last time you asked for help from your child?[/li] [li]If we can become better at this, our children will trust us at a deeper level and will use us more as a resource.[/li][/list] (http://http://web.archive.org/web/20031219142323/www.biggestjob.org/priority_09.html)
these people want to talk down to us about "humility", and tell us to be humble to our kids, and ask for our kids help. When is the last time Hyde humbled itself and apologized for their mistakes, and asked us for help?
they dish it out but they sure cant take it.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Ursus on October 09, 2007, 02:44:30 PM
She really should be writing for Hallmark. They can afford to assign her a good editor. This also would be an arena where there would be far less damage done in the long run.
Hyde is famous for telling people what their children "actually want." But this is a misnomer of the highest degree. Hyde is actually telling people what Hyde wants, and charging them $40k for the privilege of listening.
What do our children most want from us? As parents, we can misread this. Our children may be telling us to leave them alone, or they may want us to "trust" them more and back off. We tell our parents that their children want us to inspire them. They may not even know they want this from us. However, their desire to be inspired may well be the strongest yearning they have, the greatest hope they have. We will not inspire them with our achievements. It will be done through sharing our struggles, reaching for our best, and modeling daily character.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on October 10, 2007, 05:52:52 AM
What do our children most want from us? As parents, we can misread this. Our children may be telling us to leave them alone, or they may want us to "trust" them more and back off. We tell our parents that their children want us to inspire them. They may not even know they want this from us. However, their desire to be inspired may well be the strongest yearning they have, the greatest hope they have. We will not inspire them with our achievements. It will be done through sharing our struggles, reaching for our best, and modeling daily character.
Hyde neither inspires nor influences; it fosters psychological dependency. From the moment of its founding, Hyde has greatly exaggerated and inflated the evils of the American family, youth culture, and educational system into a vast and interrelated culture that alienates youth from any deep sense of purpose in life. The promulgation of this myth justifies and encourages the creation of an alternative education. Unfortunately, Hyde offers no real alternative. Hyde's educational program lacks intellectual sophistication and doctrinal coherence; it does not possess the weight and power, historical, intellectual or organizational, to replace the existing educational system. Courage, integrity, leadership, curiosity, and concern amount to no more than a few scattered, insubstantial, and even unrelated principles that owe most of their apparent coherence of teaching and organization to the preconceptions and writings of the Gaulds themselves.
My main criticism of Hyde, however, is that it is a persecuting culture. The monolithic student, parent, and peer culture Hyde creates within its walls, in opposition to America's "dysfunctional" culture, stamps out diversity, heterogeneity, free speech, free thought, and indeed courage, integrity, leadership, curiosity, and concern.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on October 10, 2007, 08:31:29 AM
H[/color]Y[/color]D[/color]E[/color]
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on October 10, 2007, 09:53:15 AM
What do our children most want from us? As parents, we can misread this. Our children may be telling us to leave them alone, or they may want us to "trust" them more and back off. We tell our parents that their children want us to inspire them. They may not even know they want this from us. However, their desire to be inspired may well be the strongest yearning they have, the greatest hope they have. We will not inspire them with our achievements. It will be done through sharing our struggles, reaching for our best, and modeling daily character.
Hyde neither inspires nor influences; it fosters psychological dependency. From the moment of its founding, Hyde has greatly exaggerated and inflated the evils of the American family, youth culture, and educational system into a vast and interrelated culture that alienates youth from any deep sense of purpose in life. The promulgation of this myth justifies and encourages the creation of an alternative education. Unfortunately, Hyde offers no real alternative. Hyde's educational program lacks intellectual sophistication and doctrinal coherence; it does not possess the weight and power, historical, intellectual or organizational, to replace the existing educational system. Courage, integrity, leadership, curiosity, and concern amount to no more than a few scattered, insubstantial, and even unrelated principles that owe most of their apparent coherence of teaching and organization to the preconceptions and writings of the Gaulds themselves.
My main criticism of Hyde, however, is that it is a persecuting culture. The monolithic student, parent, and peer culture Hyde creates within its walls, in opposition to America's "dysfunctional" culture, stamps out diversity, heterogeneity, free speech, free thought, and indeed courage, integrity, leadership, curiosity, and concern.
Nicely written. It is good to see a Hyde Alum that has gone on to a good Achievement Culture Liberal Arts School and learned to mold coherent thoughts into well written prose.
I think this deserves a response from the Hyde community. Got anyone that can write nearly that well?
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on October 10, 2007, 08:18:47 PM
What do our children most want from us? As parents, we can misread this. Our children may be telling us to leave them alone, or they may want us to "trust" them more and back off. We tell our parents that their children want us to inspire them. They may not even know they want this from us. However, their desire to be inspired may well be the strongest yearning they have, the greatest hope they have. We will not inspire them with our achievements. It will be done through sharing our struggles, reaching for our best, and modeling daily character.
Hyde neither inspires nor influences; it fosters psychological dependency. From the moment of its founding, Hyde has greatly exaggerated and inflated the evils of the American family, youth culture, and educational system into a vast and interrelated culture that alienates youth from any deep sense of purpose in life. The promulgation of this myth justifies and encourages the creation of an alternative education. Unfortunately, Hyde offers no real alternative. Hyde's educational program lacks intellectual sophistication and doctrinal coherence; it does not possess the weight and power, historical, intellectual or organizational, to replace the existing educational system. Courage, integrity, leadership, curiosity, and concern amount to no more than a few scattered, insubstantial, and even unrelated principles that owe most of their apparent coherence of teaching and organization to the preconceptions and writings of the Gaulds themselves.
My main criticism of Hyde, however, is that it is a persecuting culture. The monolithic student, parent, and peer culture Hyde creates within its walls, in opposition to America's "dysfunctional" culture, stamps out diversity, heterogeneity, free speech, free thought, and indeed courage, integrity, leadership, curiosity, and concern.
Nicely written. It is good to see a Hyde Alum that has gone on to a good Achievement Culture Liberal Arts School and learned to mold coherent thoughts into well written prose.
I think this deserves a response from the Hyde community. Got anyone that can write nearly that well?
I was using steroids. As a writing aid I sometimes copy out a passage, and emend it until my idea is expressed. It helps me to learn and develop new styles. Where authorship is an issue I am careful to emend until not a trace of the original remains. I would probably deserve a yellow flag for plagiarism for submitting the above post under my own name.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on October 10, 2007, 10:20:10 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
I was using steroids. As a writing aid I sometimes copy out a passage, and emend it until my idea is expressed. It helps me to learn and develop new styles. Where authorship is an issue I am careful to emend until not a trace of the original remains. I would probably deserve a yellow flag for plagiarism for submitting the above post under my own name.
well well, thnx 4 making that clear then! :rofl:
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on October 10, 2007, 11:48:59 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
well well, thnx 4 making that clear then! :rofl:
Thank Hyde. They taught me integrity.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Ursus on October 11, 2007, 03:17:47 AM
The Biggest Job® We'll Ever Have by Laura and Malcolm Gauld (Scribner, 2002)
Let's have a look at the reviews (http://http://web.archive.org/web/20031207074047/www.biggestjob.org/products.html)...
"From my fifty years of studying leadership, one single factor stands out: character. It is only character that counts in leadership and maturity. The Hyde Schools know how it's learned and developed. The Gauld's book incarnates with eloquent and moving language how Hyde achieves its miracles."
-
Warren Bennis, Distinguished Professor of Business, USC, Author of Managing the Dream[/list] "This book is a treasure trove of wisdom and practical know-how for both parents and educators. This book comes from the heads, hearts, and guts of the people who have built one of America's great schools."
-
Kevin Ryan, Ph.D. Professor and Director Emeritus, The Center for the Advancement of Ethics and Character[/list] "The Gaulds have taken the Hyde School's program for character-based education and written an accessible manual. When parents work on their own character, children are inspired to follow. Any parent eager to tackle the "biggest job" should consider this book required reading."
-
Charlene C . Giannetti, coauthor of The Roller-Coaster Years, Parenting 911, and Cliques[/list][/list]
Who are these people? In reverse order:
Charlene C . Giannetti - formerly an editor and journalist for at least two business publications; of late a prolific writer of parent self-help books, generally paperback, often with co-author Margaret Sagarese. Her books include:
How to Capitalize on the Video Revolution (publisher?, year?)
Adoption: Parenthood Without Pregnancy (publisher?, year?)
The Part-Time Solution: The New Strategy for Managing Your Career While Managing Motherhood (publisher?, year?)
The Roller-Coaster Years: Raising Your Child Through the Maddening Yet Magical Middle School Years (Bantam Dell, Broadway Books, 1997)
Parenting 911: How to Safeguard and Rescue Your 10 to 15-Year-Old From Substance Abuse, Sexual Encounters, Violence, Failure in School, Danger on the Internet, and Other Risky Situations (Broadway Books, 1999)
Who Am I?...And Other Questions of Adopted Kids (Putnam Group, Price Stern Sloan, 1999)
Cliques: 8 Steps to Help Your Child Survive the Social Jungle (Broadway Books, 2001)
The Patience of a Saint: How Faith Can Sustain You During the Tough Times in Parenting (Broadway Books, 2002)
What Are You Doing In There? Balancing Your Need to Know with Your Adolescent's Need to Grow (Broadway Books, 2003)
Good Parents, Tough Times: How Your Catholic Faith Provides Hope and Guidance in Times of Crisis (Loyola, 2005)
Boy Crazy! Keeping Your Daughter's Feet on the Ground When Her Head Is in the Clouds (Broadway Books, 2006)
See also: http://www.rollercoasteryears.com/bio.htm (http://www.rollercoasteryears.com/bio.htm)
Kevin Ryan - Ph.D. Professor and Director Emeritus, The Center for the Advancement of Ethics and Character.
CAEC, founded by Dr. Ryan, is housed by Boston University's School of Education. Gee, isn't that Joe Gauld's old stomping ground for his Master's?
CAEC's home page (http://http://www.bu.edu/sed/caec/) boasts the following slogan: "More than a decade of helping teachers, administrators, and parents build good character in today's students and tomorrow's leaders." Somehow that sounds vaguely familiar.
For the most part, this Institute appears to be above board, albeit with a decidedly conservative tenor. There are a few of Thomas Lickona's books in the Parent's Reading List, as well as a link for The Center For The 4th And 5th R's in the 'About Character Education' section. See HERE (http://http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=22351&start=2) for previous discussion about Lickona et al in the Hyde threads.
Certainly there appear to be some standards applied to the scholarly pursuit. The Biggest Job did not make it to the CAEC Character Ed Reading List, but Joe's Character First, amazingly enough, did. I also recognize at least one, possibly two, books published by their faculty (found in the Publications List) who have quoted Joe in their work some years ago.[/list] So there are some historical connections between Hyde School/the Gauld family and BU's Center for the Advancement of Ethics and Character and/or Kevin Ryan. This wasn't exactly a review out of the blue.
Warren Bennis - Distinguished Professor of Business, USC, Author of Managing the Dream. A self-made man, my favorite, gotta love him. Warren Bennis actually warrants his own Wikipedia page (http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_Bennis).
I have to wonder about the Joe Gauld connection in this one as well, as apparently Bennis was kicking around MIT to BU to Harvard and back to MIT in the 50s and 60s. I am assuming that Bennis is two years older than Joe, and that they would have been pursuing their respective graduate studies around the same time. I am sure that Joe is quite familiar with Bennis; whether or not he knows him personally is the only question.
Moreover, in "the mid-1950s,
[Bennis] had been the most visible part of the most controversial movement ever to hit the typically staid world of business organizations: so-called human relations, invented by Kurt Lewin, and notably (or notoriously) put into practice as "T-Groups" at the National Training Laboratories in Bethel, Maine. T-groups took many forms, but the basic idea was to bring managers together in small groups to resolve the conflicts and role strains that undercut effective working relationships. Originally developed to deal with racial tension in the workplace by surfacing the sources of conflict, T-groups, in their later manifestations at Esalen and elsewhere, led to frequent parodying of the process."** Any guess as to what these "T-groups" entailed?
Bennis, incidentally, is also a consultant for Werner Erhard and Associates, having taken the est Training sometime in the 70s. For those not familiar with that organization, see HERE (http://http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=23187) for a short informative clip, spliced from the recent Robyn Symon documentary Transformation: The Life and Legacy of Werner Erhard (2006). Apparently Warren Bennis also appears in this film.[/list]
So...The reviewers can be summarized as follows: a business guru with a predilection for est, who may or may not be a personal friend of Joe Gauld; a "character education" visionary, who already contributes to the spreading of Joe's word; and a prolific producer of pulp self-help titles with a decidedly Catholic bent, aimed at despairing and desperate parents.
Does the sheen on this racket get any greasier??!!
** See HERE (http://http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=23562) for more information on Warren Bennis, as well as the source for the above-noted quote.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on October 11, 2007, 10:00:11 AM
What do our children most want from us? As parents, we can misread this. Our children may be telling us to leave them alone, or they may want us to "trust" them more and back off. We tell our parents that their children want us to inspire them. They may not even know they want this from us. However, their desire to be inspired may well be the strongest yearning they have, the greatest hope they have. We will not inspire them with our achievements. It will be done through sharing our struggles, reaching for our best, and modeling daily character.
Hyde neither inspires nor influences; it fosters psychological dependency. From the moment of its founding, Hyde has greatly exaggerated and inflated the evils of the American family, youth culture, and educational system into a vast and interrelated culture that alienates youth from any deep sense of purpose in life. The promulgation of this myth justifies and encourages the creation of an alternative education. Unfortunately, Hyde offers no real alternative. Hyde's educational program lacks intellectual sophistication and doctrinal coherence; it does not possess the weight and power, historical, intellectual or organizational, to replace the existing educational system. Courage, integrity, leadership, curiosity, and concern amount to no more than a few scattered, insubstantial, and even unrelated principles that owe most of their apparent coherence of teaching and organization to the preconceptions and writings of the Gaulds themselves.
My main criticism of Hyde, however, is that it is a persecuting culture. The monolithic student, parent, and peer culture Hyde creates within its walls, in opposition to America's "dysfunctional" culture, stamps out diversity, heterogeneity, free speech, free thought, and indeed courage, integrity, leadership, curiosity, and concern.
Nicely written. It is good to see a Hyde Alum that has gone on to a good Achievement Culture Liberal Arts School and learned to mold coherent thoughts into well written prose.
I think this deserves a response from the Hyde community. Got anyone that can write nearly that well?
I was using steroids. As a writing aid I sometimes copy out a passage, and emend it until my idea is expressed. It helps me to learn and develop new styles. Where authorship is an issue I am careful to emend until not a trace of the original remains. I would probably deserve a yellow flag for plagiarism for submitting the above post under my own name.
Hey a Hard rains is gonna Fall,
Robert Burns
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on October 11, 2007, 10:15:19 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Hey a Hard rains is gonna Fall,
Robert Burns
Wow, Dylan cribbed his name even. He's in good company: Ezra Pound and T. S. Eliot. Virgil and Dante. Matthew, Luke, and John. Malcolm Gauld.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on October 11, 2007, 10:29:29 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Hey a Hard rains is gonna Fall,
Robert Burns
Wow, Dylan cribbed his name even. He's in good company: Ezra Pound and T. S. Eliot. Virgil and Dante. Matthew, Luke, and John. Malcolm Gauld.
Well, at least he didn't call himself "Guest".
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on October 11, 2007, 10:45:13 AM
Quote from: ""Not-A-Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Hey a Hard rains is gonna Fall,
Robert Burns
Wow, Dylan cribbed his name even. He's in good company: Ezra Pound and T. S. Eliot. Virgil and Dante. Matthew, Luke, and John. Malcolm Gauld.
Well, at least he didn't call himself "Guest".
Whoops! Paul, not Malcolm.
LINK (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=12108&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=143&sid=87806410c7eb102185685ce03ee46ec8)
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Ursus on October 11, 2007, 11:26:22 AM
Hey, I'm quoting the link. Very interesting.
Quote from: ""on Mon Nov 21, 2005 8:31 am, Guest""
I don't think Paul did anything wrong... Malcolm Gauld gave him a bunch of his old speeches and said..here, these are yours, do what you want with them...so Paul used a portion of one of Malcolm's speeches in a graduation speech and didn't credit him...
Pretty dumb huh?
Sounds kinda like some one is being pretty free and easy with the "intellectual property" issues. Kinda just like what Paul got in trouble for during his short time as a student back in 1966-67. See HERE (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=23429) for the words directly from the pen of his savior, mentor, and father-in-law regarding that incident.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Ursus on October 11, 2007, 02:42:44 PM
Quote
...in the mid-1950s, [Bennis] had been the most visible part of the most controversial movement ever to hit the typically staid world of business organizations: so-called human relations, invented by Kurt Lewin, and notably (or notoriously) put into practice as "T-Groups" at the National Training Laboratories in Bethel, Maine. T-groups took many forms, but the basic idea was to bring managers together in small groups to resolve the conflicts and role strains that undercut effective working relationships. Originally developed to deal with racial tension in the workplace by surfacing the sources of conflict, T-groups, in their later manifestations at Esalen and elsewhere, led to frequent parodying of the process.
From Wikipedia: T-groups (http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-groups)
In 1947, the Office of Naval Research and the National Education Association created the National Training Laboratories Institute in Bethel, Maine. It pioneered the use of T-groups (Sensitivity or Laboratory Training) in which the learners use feedback, problem solving, and role play to gain insights into themselves, others, and groups. The goal was to change the standards, attitudes and behavior of individuals.
This type of training is controversial as the behaviors it encourages are often self-disclosure and openness, which many people believe an organization ultimately punishes. Also, a lot of the sensitivity training taking place uses excessive activities. The feedback used in this type of training can be highly personal, hence it must be given by highly trained observers (trainers).
===========================
Does this sound a bit like Seminar or Discovery Group to anyone?
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on October 11, 2007, 03:24:47 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Hey a Hard rains is gonna Fall,
Robert Burns
Wow, Dylan cribbed his name even. He's in good company: Ezra Pound and T. S. Eliot. Virgil and Dante. Matthew, Luke, and John. Malcolm Gauld.
Hot licks and rhetoric don't count much for nothin' Be glad if you can use what you borrow.
I have had my stuff borrowed. If I told you what it was you would not believe me. Honestly I just glad people liked it. I wrote it under the woodie guthrie copyright.
Title: Love and Theft in Modern Times
Post by: Anonymous on October 11, 2007, 03:38:46 PM
" ... anybody caught singin’ it without our permission, will be mighty good friends of ourn, cause we don’t give a dern. Publish it. Write it. Sing it. Swing to it. Yodel it. We wrote it, that’s all we wanted to do...."
Woodie Guthrie.
Dylan is one of the most prolific poplar and profitable plagiarists of our time. He has lifted from the know and unknown. It was a revelation when I started scratching down into Americana to find out how many songs he did not write that are copy written under his stage name. He is still a genius.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Ursus on October 11, 2007, 03:42:46 PM
Some more on T-Groups. This from a small business consulting firm in Seattle, Washington called "Organization Development Consulting & Training." Interestingly enough, all three principles in this firm have spent considerable professional time in Maine. There is a quote from Warren Bennis on one of the website pages discussing Organization Development.
Here are links to two pages on their site. If you are short on patience, skip to the bottom section: "Possible Problems."
===============================
HUMAN RELATIONS LAB (T-Groups) (http://http://www.orgdct.com/training%20programs.htm)
A excellent resource for learning about group process and each person's impact on the group. This event is a mix of Training Groups (T-Groups) and theory on group dynamics and interpersonal awareness. It is best conducted with "stranger groups" -- people who do not work closely with each other.
A Training Group is an experiential learning lab, that focuses the attention of participants on the "here and now" behavior, feelings and thinking of group members. It is an unstructured, non-directive small group setting. The T-Group is intended to provide you the opportunity to:
Increase your understanding of group development and dynamics.
Gaining a better understanding of the underlying social processes at work within a group (looking under the tip of the iceberg)
Increase your skill in facilitating group effectiveness.
Increase interpersonal skills
Experiment with changes in your behavior
Increase your awareness of your own feelings in the moment; and offer you the opportunity to accept responsibility for your feelings
Increase your understanding of the impact of your behavior on others.
Increase your sensitivity to others' feelings.
Increase your ability to give and receive feedback.
Increase your ability to learn from a group's experience.
Increase your ability to manage and utilize conflict.
Success in these goals depends, to a large extent, on the implied contract that each participant is willing to disclose feelings that she or he may have, in the moment, about others in the group, and to solicit feedback from the others about herself or himself.
Also, see More on T-Groups
===============================
More on T-Groups (http://http://www.orgdct.com/more_on_t-groups.htm)
History
In 1947, the National Training Laboratories Institute began in Bethel, ME. They pioneered the use of T-groups (Laboratory Training) in which the learners use here and now experience in the group, feedback among participants and theory on human behavior to explore group process and gain insights into themselves and others. The goal is to offer people options for their behavior in groups. The T-group was a great training innovation which provided the base for what we now know about team building. This was a new method that would help leaders and managers create a more humanistic, people serving system and allow leaders and managers to see how their behavior actually affected others. There was a strong value of concern for people and a desire to create systems that took people's needs and feelings seriously.
Objectives of T-Group Learning
The T-Group is intended to provide you the opportunity to:
Increase your understanding of group development and dynamics.
Gaining a better understanding of the underlying social processes at work within a group (looking under the tip of the iceberg)
Increase your skill in facilitating group effectiveness.
Increase interpersonal skills
Experiment with changes in your behavior
Increase your awareness of your own feelings in the moment; and offer you the opportunity to accept responsibility for your feelings.
Increase your understanding of the impact of your behavior on others.
Increase your sensitivity to others' feelings.
Increase your ability to give and receive feedback.
Increase your ability to learn from your own and a group's experience.
Increase your ability to manage and utilize conflict.
Success in these goals depends, to a large extent, on the implied contract that each participant is willing to disclose feelings that she or he may have, in the moment, about others in the group, and to solicit feedback from the others about herself or himself. The focus is upon individual learning; some participants may learn a great deal in most of the above areas, others learn relatively little.
Method
One way of describing what may happen for a participant is --
Unfreezing habitual responses to situations -- this is facilitated by the participant's own desire to explore new ways of behaving and the trainer staying non-directive, silent, and providing little structure or task agenda
Self generated and chosen change by the participant -- Experiment with new behaviors -- Practice description not evaluation of
Reinforce new behavior by positive feedback, participants own assessment of whether what is happening is closer to what she/he intends, supportive environment, trust development
Sources of Change in Groups
Self-observation - participants give more attention to their own intentions, feelings, etc.
Feedback - participants receive information on the impact they have on others
Insight - participants expand self-knowledge
Self-disclosure - participants exposes more of themselves to others
Universality - participants experience that others share their difficulties, concerns or hopes
Group Cohesion - participants experience trust, acceptance & understanding)
Hope - participant see others learn, achieve their goals, improve, and cope more effectively
Vicarious Learning - participants pick up skills and attitudes from others
Catharsis - participants experience a sense of release or breakthrough
A Description
The T-group provides participants with an opportunity to learn about themselves, their impact on others and how to function more effectively in group and interpersonal situations. It facilitates this learning by bringing together a small group of people for the express purpose of studying their own behavior when they interact within a small group.
A T-Group is not a group discussion or a problem solving group.
The group's work is primarily process rather than content oriented. The focus tends to be on the feelings and the communication of feelings, rather than on the communication of information, opinions, or concepts. This is accomplished by focusing on the 'here and now' behavior in the group. Attention is paid to particular behaviors of participants not on the "whole person", feedback is non-evaluative and reports on the impact of the behavior on others. The participant has the opportunity to become a more authentic self in relation to others through self disclosure and receiving feedback from others. The Johari Window is a model that looks at that process.
The training is not structured in the manner you might experience in an academic program or a meeting with an agenda or a team with a task to accomplish. The lack of structure and limited involvement of the trainers provides space for the participants to decide what they want to talk about. No one tells them what they ought to talk about. The lack of direction results in certain characteristic responses; participants are silent or aggressive or struggle to start discussions or attempt to structure the group.
In the beginning of a T-Group participants are usually focused on what they experience as a need for structure, individual emotional safety, predictability, and something to do in common. These needs are what amount to the tip of the iceberg in most groups in their back home situation. By not filling the group's time with answers to these needs, the T-Group eventually begins to notice what is under the tip of the iceberg. It is what is always there in any group but often unseen and not responsibly engaged . So, participants experience anxiety about authority and power, being include and accepted in the group, and intimacy.
Depending on forces, such as, the dynamics of the group, the past experience and competence of participants, and the skill of the trainers -- the group, to some extent, usually develops a sense of itself as a group, with feelings of group loyalty. This can cause groups to resist learning opportunities if they are seen as threatening to the group's self-image. It also provides some of the climate of trust, support and permission needed for individuals to try new behavior.
As an individual participant begins to experience some degree of trust (in themselves, the group and the trainers) several things become possible --
The participant may notice that his/her feelings and judgments about the behavior of others is not always shared by others. That what he/she found supportive or threatening was not experience in that way by others in the group. That how one responded to authority, acceptance and affection issues different from that of others (more related to ones family of origin than to what is happening in the group). Individual differences emerge in how experiences are understood.
The participant may begin to try on new behavior. For example, someone who has always felt a need to fill silence with noise and activity tries being quieter and still.
Participants begin to ask for feedback from the group about how their behavior is impacting others.
Participants may find that they are really rather independent and have a relatively low level of anxiety about what is happening in the group. They will exhibit a broader range of behavior and emotions during the life of the group. In fact their leadership is part of what helps the group develop.
The role of the trainers
To help the group and individuals analyze and learn from what is happening in the group. The trainer may draw attention to events and behavior in the group and invite the group to look at its experience. At times the trainer may offer tentative interpretations.
To offer theory, a model or research that seems related to what the group is looking at.
To encourage the group to follow norms that tend to serve the learning process, e.g., focusing on "here & now" rather than the "then & there".
To offer training and coaching in skills that tend to help the learning process, e.g., feedback skills, EIAG, etc.
To not offer structure or an agenda. To remain silent, allowing the group to experience its anxiety about acceptance, influence, etc.
To be willing to disclose oneself, to be open with the group. On occasion being willing to offer feedback and challenge a participant
To avoid becoming too directive, clinical, or personally involved.
Possible Problems
T-Group methods usually encourage self-disclosure and openness, which may be inappropriate or even punished in organizations. This was an early learning. When managers thought they could take the T-group method into the back home organization, they discovered that the methods and the assumptions of a T-group did not fit. T-groups consisted of participants who were strangers. They didn't have a history or a future together and could more easily focus on here and now behavior. Another issue was that in the organization there were objectives, deadlines and schedules related to accomplishing the work of the company or group. Groups with a task to accomplish could not take the same time that would be used in a T-Group. These difficulties helped lead to the development of Organization Development and team building. What had been learned in T-Groups was combined with other knowledge and these new disciplines emerged as ways to address the values raised by the T-Group experience.
The T-Group experience can open up a web of questioning in a participant. Ways of behaving that the person has used for many years may be called into question by others in the group and oneself. This has in some cases brought the participant to question relationships in the family or at work. While this can be a very constructive process that leads to the renewal of relationships, it has on occasion lead to the breakdown of a relationship. While such a breakdown may have, in time, come to the relationship without participation in a T-Group, it remains a painful and possibly damaging experience.
Participants being forced or pressured to attend, by an employer or other person with influence, are on the whole less likely to have a positive learning experience. Employers or others who want to require the participation of others may enhance the chance of having a productive outcome if -- they attend a lab themselves before sending others; they speak with the lab coordinator before the event to discuss what might realistically be expected and what the leader could do to assist in the learning process when the participant returns home.
Very rarely there have been situations in which a participant has a psychiatric problem. One report said "The possibility of negative psychiatric effects of ST, and especially its role in inducing psychiatric symptoms, is yet to be clarified." This reinforces the value of participation based on intrinsic motivation; a norm that discourages people in therapy from attending without the approval of their therapist; and trainers staying focused on the learning areas suited for T-Group experiences.
Copyright Robert A. Gallagher 2001
Agencies that offer T-Group training and other lab training experience: LTI - Leadership Training Institute NTL - National Training Laboratories Institute
Additional background on T-Groups and related issues Kurt Lewin: groups, experiential learning and action research Working with T-Groups? - A section of "Working with Groups" What is Kolb's model of experiential education, and where does it come from? - By Richard W. Shields, Dorothy Aaron, and Shannon Wall A Social History of the T-Group National Society for Experiential Education UA Experiential Learning Cycle model Touchy-Feely to Organization T-Group By Theme (humor)
To contact: E-Mail -- ODCT Phone -- 206.385.4647
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Ursus on October 11, 2007, 03:55:34 PM
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: Sorry, guys... I had NO idea I was "interrupting" such an important conversation...
One of my all-time favorite Dylan tunes is one that nobody seems to have heard of, or at least acknowledges that they have, probably the latter... He may well not have written that one either. Probably a case of it being in a minor key (my predilection); the lyrics are not among his best.
"One More Cup of Coffee" ...'Till I go... To the valley below...
I think Dylan may be betting on people not recognizing their songs any more once he sings them. Take that any way you wish, ha haa! :lol:
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on October 11, 2007, 04:04:22 PM
Having Paul plagiarize Malcolm is like having one bag lady steal from empties from another bag lady's bag. When you have Dylan steal from you that is an honor.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Ursus on October 13, 2007, 02:21:10 AM
Having Paul plagiarize Malcolm is like having one bag lady steal from empties from another bag lady's bag. When you have Dylan steal from you that is an honor.
In the interest of continuity, "Silvio Conte" (mistakenly?) continued this tale in another thread the following day, namely here: http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=21094&start=37 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=21094&start=37)
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on October 13, 2007, 05:03:13 AM
Quote from: ""Ursus""
I sang: "Silvio, Silver and gold won't by back the beat of a heart grown cold. " I eventually worked out the rest of the chorus that is in the Hunter/Dylan version and a couple of the verses. The Hunter Dylan version has added verses that I did not write. The one I did write that they used verbatum it:
One of these days and it won't be long I going down to the valley and sing my song, I gonna sing out loud I gonna sing out strong Let the echo decide if I was right or wrong.
Are you shitting me? I've been listening to you?! I am impressed.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Ursus on October 13, 2007, 06:15:11 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""[i"
not[/i] Ursus"]I sang: "Silvio, Silver and gold won't by back the beat of a heart grown cold. " I eventually worked out the rest of the chorus that is in the Hunter/Dylan version and a couple of the verses. The Hunter Dylan version has added verses that I did not write. The one I did write that they used verbatum it:
One of these days and it won't be long I going down to the valley and sing my song, I gonna sing out loud I gonna sing out strong Let the echo decide if I was right or wrong.
Are you shitting me? I've been listening to you?! I am impressed.
I should point out, in the interest of giving the bard his due, that the inner quote is not Ursus, but rather Silvio Conte, Emil, Harvard Square Busker, or whatever name he is going by at the moment...
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on October 13, 2007, 08:04:11 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Ursus""
I sang: "Silvio, Silver and gold won't by back the beat of a heart grown cold. " I eventually worked out the rest of the chorus that is in the Hunter/Dylan version and a couple of the verses. The Hunter Dylan version has added verses that I did not write. The one I did write that they used verbatum it:
One of these days and it won't be long I going down to the valley and sing my song, I gonna sing out loud I gonna sing out strong Let the echo decide if I was right or wrong.
Are you shitting me? I've been listening to you?! I am impressed.
No I am not shit you. You are too big of a turd and you would hurt my bunghole Ha Ha Ha.
Actually think it was Hunter that heard it. I have some quotes in another Dead song of the period. I would rather say Dylan. It is more impressive. It is like Jeff Black says he completed graduate work at Harvard. Light a candle and curse the glare as I used to say. At last Hunter acknowledges he did not author that. I believe him when he said I opened the note book and found it.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on October 15, 2007, 03:52:47 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
30 years ago the place was really for want of a better phrase "a real mind fuck" So many of the kids were down with the program it was like living in east Germany with the stazi. Judging from the bits and pieces from more recent years and from talking to people from the late seventies it was never that intense again. I think that is why so many people from that era, that were with the program, are still involved: it was the most compelling experiences of their lives. That is why thirty years on people like me are willing to spend time commenting on it. The nearest thing in fiction I can compare it to was a British TV show called "The Prisoner"
One of the things that was used a the razor to cleave the good from the not worthy was belief in a thing called "National Commitment" which was nothing less that the over throw of the US educational system. If you did not believe in it you were not worthy. In retrospect the folks that were willing to say it was a bunch of crap were the ones with character. The whole thing is like a dirty family secret. No one I have ever run into from back then was willing to talk about it because it was so preposterous that they sat there and bought into it. It would be like going to a family reunion and talking about the time Uncle Billy was caught in the barn standing in a wheelbarrow outtin' the wood to a cow.
Sects are always small. Sects’ ambitions are always big, if not downright megalomaniac: nothing short of salvation of the world.
The founding fathers, Joe and Ed, were megalomaniacs. But Hyde is changing its look. Malcolm, Laurie, and Laura are more grey-suited accountants than red-robed heroes. For them, character education is strictly a family business, a cash cow, and not a means of ego gratification. They will remain faithful to character education, as it is what sets Hyde apart from other schools. They will try to present to the public a kindlier, preferably female face, rather than Joe's red spitting one.
Unfortunately, the children haven't figured out a way to teach character that doesn't rely on the machine their father built. The group-mediated behavior devices for breaking down individual resistance to authority operate today no differently than they did forty years ago. If anything, the machine is more tried and true, its damage more lasting. Gauldschwitz still stands.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on October 15, 2007, 07:10:53 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Unfortunately, the children haven't figured out a way to teach character that doesn't rely on the machine their father built. The group-mediated behavior devices for breaking down individual resistance to authority operate today no differently than they did forty years ago. If anything, the machine is more tried and true, its damage more lasting. Gauldschwitz still stands.
There's just no reconciling those group-mediated behavior devices for breaking down individual resistance to authority, on the one hand, and courge, integrity, leadership, curiosity, and concern, on the other. The actions and the words are antithetical.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Ursus on October 15, 2007, 07:37:10 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""
30 years ago the place was really for want of a better phrase "a real mind fuck" So many of the kids were down with the program it was like living in east Germany with the stazi.
Judging from the bits and pieces from more recent years and from talking to people from the late seventies it was never that intense again. I think that is why so many people from that era, that were with the program, are still involved: it was the most compelling experiences of their lives. That is why thirty years on people like me are willing to spend time commenting on it. The nearest thing in fiction I can compare it to was a British TV show called "The Prisoner"
One of the things that was used a the razor to cleave the good from the not worthy was belief in a thing called "National Commitment" which was nothing less that the over throw of the US educational system. If you did not believe in it you were not worthy. In retrospect the folks that were willing to say it was a bunch of crap were the ones with character. The whole thing is like a dirty family secret. No one I have ever run into from back then was willing to talk about it because it was so preposterous that they sat there and bought into it. It would be like going to a family reunion and talking about the time Uncle Billy was caught in the barn standing in a wheelbarrow outtin' the wood to a cow.
Sects are always small. Sects' ambitions are always big, if not downright megalomaniac: nothing short of salvation of the world.
The founding fathers, Joe and Ed, were megalomaniacs. But Hyde is changing its look. Malcolm, Laurie, and Laura are more grey-suited accountants than red-robed heroes. For them, character education is strictly a family business, a cash cow, and not a means of ego gratification. They will remain faithful to character education, as it is what sets Hyde apart from other schools. They will try to present to the public a kindlier, preferably female face, rather than Joe's red spitting one.
Unfortunately, the children haven't figured out a way to teach character that doesn't rely on the machine their father built. The group-mediated behavior devices for breaking down individual resistance to authority operate today no differently than they did forty years ago. If anything, the machine is more tried and true, its damage more lasting. Gauldschwitz still stands.
The more mainstream this baby gets, the more insidious the bullshit, and all the more difficult to tease out and recognize.
Quote from: ""Guest""
The group-mediated behavior devices for breaking down individual resistance to authority operate today no differently than they did forty years ago.
Or 80 years ago, for that matter, as during that time they were used on POWs in China. AA used quite a number of them; some AA groups are not so benign and well-meaning. And I could fill in quite a number of other more notorious groups in this particular space in history, but I won't bore you today.
This concept didn't start with Joe; he just fine-tuned it and specialized it to be used on teenagers. Nor is he the only one to be employing it. Take a look around at the rest of fornits. Everyone has their own take on it, with their own specialized lingo, with their own quirks and inconsistencies which fool many a soul into thinking said program is "unique."
Quote from: ""Guest""
There's just no reconciling those group-mediated behavior devices for breaking down individual resistance to authority, on the one hand, and courge, integrity, leadership, curiosity, and concern, on the other. The actions and the words are antithetical.
:tup: You said it, brother!!
Title: Malcolm weighs in
Post by: Ursus on October 15, 2007, 09:59:47 AM
Okay... previously we went through the 10 Priorities, which apparently are Laura's missives to the parents, although they are not labeled as such. They are just labeled as the 10 Priorities.
This section of the website is labeled for Educators, and here's where Malcolm takes a turn. Some of you may recognize this as having appeared elsewhere. I know that it has, I just can't remember where. Speak up, put your two cents in, and illuminate the rest of us with that info!
I almost choked on the phrase, "My twenty-five years as an educator..." Gee, where have we heard this before? We've read Dad use these lines edited to read from 20 years... to 30... to 40... to 50...
It sounds like they are really trying to capitalize on the inherent failures of "No Child Left Behind." But I'm not so sure that there is anything of substance which addresses that issue in this essay:
============================================
A few months ago I sat in a Manhattan restaurant sharing thoughts on education with two seasoned New York City public school educators. The words of one of them have been ringing in my ears ever since we paid the check: (http://http://web.archive.org/web/20031008060304/www.biggestjob.org/educators.html)
"We started talking about improving American education back when Lyndon Johnson launched the Great Society. Since then we... put a man on the moon... we removed the beating heart from one dying person and transplanted it in another to prolong life... we can communicate instantly via computer, etc. As for our schools, well, they're worse than they were when LBJ was president!"[/list] As a society, it is time to face up to the fact that our miraculous advances in science, medicine and technology have occurred despite a regression in our schools and families. Logic demands that we be highly suspicious of the notion of expecting to continue to enjoy the former without addressing the latter. Furthermore, we must ask the deeper question: How much can we really expect to "enjoy" these advances if the end result continues to be lifeless schools and unfulfilled families?
Meanwhile, we educators soldier on in the face of test score mania, the current educational silver bullet du jour intended to ensure that we "Leave No Child Behind." If you are reading this, perhaps you believe that the focus on testing isn't going to get us where we want go. Maybe you've had students who:
Work hard but do not meet the guidelines;
Do not meet guidelines and come from families who could care less;
Meet the guidelines but are not coming close to fulfilling their learning potential;
Meet the guidelines but you suspect they might be cheating;
Meet the guidelines but are not progressing in character development.
Perhaps you've observed schools that appear to manipulate who takes the tests and when they take them in order to "meet" the guidelines. We believe that it's time to face up to a simple truth: We care more about their aptitude than their attitude... and they know it.
My twenty-five years as an educator have taught me an essential lesson: never kid a kid. Despite the fact that they might fail to grasp the most basic math formula, they will never misread our true expectations of them. They know we have created an educational system that values their aptitude more than their attitude, their ability more than their effort, and their talent more than their character. Surrounded by signs that tell them that what they can do is more important than who they are, a growing number have come to a simple realization: If I cannot be good at being good, I might as well be good at being bad. They'd rather be bad than average.
I frequently ask high school students if they know any students at their schools who do next to no academic work and yet consistently make the honor roll. Most casually acknowledge this as common with a shrug: "Sure, some kids just have it and school rewards them." Many point admiringly to the student who is able to get the "A" with next to no effort. Furthermore, many of the students who are making the honor roll don't necessarily believe that their distinction is due to their efforts. They know that cheating is common, if not rampant, even among the top students. They know that many college-bound students, often on the advice of parents and teachers, will avoid taking a particularly challenging advanced course for fear that the low grade they might receive would hurt their chances for admission to an elite college. Regardless of their place in the hierarchy of their schools, kids know it's not about attitude. Absent an inspiring culture, the youth culture often takes over and the results sometimes turn out to be desperate, even tragic, attempts at shock-effect.
The great American movements have been fueled by the catalyst of powerful "either/or" propositions: Patriot or Tory? Blue or Gray? Equal opportunity for all OR separate but equal? For the sake of our kids, a new choice lies before us. It's time for a new view, one that values attitude over aptitude, effort over ability, and character over talent. The Biggest Job was established to help parents and teachers move their families and their schools in directions that reflect these priorities. As we forge ahead, we remain convinced of one thing: Character is inspired, not imparted. We don't pour it into kids; we help them pull it out of themselves. Our true beliefs and motivations set the stage. Attitude or aptitude? Choose today.
Malcolm Gauld President, Hyde Schools Bath, ME Woodstock, CT New Haven Washington DC
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on October 16, 2007, 11:04:32 AM
Quote from: ""Ursus""
I almost choked on the phrase, "My twenty-five years as an educator..." Gee, where have we heard this before? We've read Dad use these lines edited to read from 20 years... to 30... to 40... to 50...
its the phrase du jour of self-inflated educators.
Title: please give me another choice
Post by: Anonymous on October 16, 2007, 12:39:32 PM
Quote
Attitude or aptitude? Choose today.
Geezum crow!. He is just like the cup chicks. He has swallowed his fathers shit now he is trying to puke it back into our mouths.
Attitude or aptitude. We have a moron with attitude but no aptitude running the country. I don't know about you but I think the results suck.
Title: cup chicks
Post by: Anonymous on October 16, 2007, 12:52:19 PM
http://cupchicks.com/ (http://cupchicks.com/)
I would not watch it if I were you!
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Ursus on October 16, 2007, 02:13:01 PM
Yeah, but you don't have the webcam setup to record everyone's reaction to it, ha ha! I thought that was the main point, no? Quite frankly, it makes my poop jokes tame by comparison. I feel so much better.
Gone are the days when the Hyde forum was the "family channel" on fornits, ha ha. Thanks a lot, buddy!! :rofl:
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Ursus on October 16, 2007, 02:19:39 PM
Quote from: ""Malcolm Gauld""
We believe that it's time to face up to a simple truth: We care more about their aptitude than their attitude... and they know it.
I'm confused. Malcolm seems to be saying it's wrong for schools to care more about aptitude than attitude. But Hyde School always cared a great deal more about my aptitude at spilling my guts in Seminar, than they cared about my attitude towards bettering myself. What is the take-home from this? This is a mixed message. Good thing I'm not schizophrenic. Yet.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on October 16, 2007, 02:24:18 PM
I had a real good laugh imagining some one from Hyde monitoring this web site clicking it and watching the fecal train wreck that is the cup chicks. Two girls, one cup, what a special feeling.
I hope those girl had one of Dr Popp's approved enemas.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Ursus on October 16, 2007, 02:46:20 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
I had a real good laugh imagining some one from Hyde monitoring this web site clicking it and watching the fecal train wreck that is the cup chicks. Two girls, one cup, what a special feeling.
Oh, come one! They already call us a "cesspool," ha haa! Now they can call us a shitpit!
BTW, they might not even be able to access it if they're monitoring through their server. Their proxy undoubtedly has the "naughty filter" on! :roll:
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Ursus on October 16, 2007, 02:49:38 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
I hope those girl had one of Dr Popp's approved enemas.
A colonic would be so much more spiritually rewarding.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Joseph W. Gauld on October 16, 2007, 03:28:02 PM
Ah, hell, I'm gonna let Mal give to you today:
Quote from: ""Malcolm Guald""
Absent an inspiring culture, the youth culture often takes over and the results sometimes turn out to be desperate, even tragic, attempts at shock-effect.
And another thing, to that pussy-whipped god-forsaken faceless "Guest" who posted that SHIT in the first place, it sounds like you haven't been outa Hyde too long. You're still remembering what I put ya through running those suicide sprints like there was no tomorrow! I tell ya, take a kid who thinks he has mental problems and run him 'till he pukes... no more "mental" problems on his mind, har har har har!!!
Physiologically obsessed, Joseph W. Gauld, The Educator
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on October 16, 2007, 06:14:57 PM
Quote from: ""Joseph W. Gauld""
Ah, hell, I'm gonna let Mal give to you today:
Quote from: ""Malcolm Guald""
Absent an inspiring culture, the youth culture often takes over and the results sometimes turn out to be desperate, even tragic, attempts at shock-effect.
And another thing, to that pussy-whipped god-forsaken faceless "Guest" who posted that SHIT in the first place, it sounds like you haven't been outa Hyde too long. You're still remembering what I put ya through running those suicide sprints like there was no tomorrow! I tell ya, take a kid who thinks he has mental problems and run him 'till he pukes... no more "mental" problems on his mind, har har har har!!!
Physiologically obsessed, Joseph W. Gauld, The Educator
Joe,
The cup Chicks must have shook you up. you forgot how to spell your name: Guald?
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Ed Legg on October 16, 2007, 06:32:39 PM
Jesus' Holy sandals!
We never had sick bastards like that at Hyde when I was headmaster. Mom and Dad you better think twice before sending little Jimmer into that cesspool of sick sick kids at Hyde.
Hugs
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on October 16, 2007, 07:46:27 PM
Well, at least no one will mistake him for Rob Schuller, this dood's head is completely bald! Rob still has hair, from what I've heard.
Like the headband; very stylish.
Title: Keep it clean, please
Post by: Anonymous on October 17, 2007, 12:05:45 PM
Let's assume that there may be minors (current Hyde students, perhaps) visiting here. Please don't post things you wouldn't want your own kids to see. I'm not anti-porn, per se, but it's off-topic here. No point in alienating people who are just trying to find help on these pages. Thanks.
Title: Re: Keep it clean, please
Post by: Anonymous on October 17, 2007, 12:32:05 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Let's assume that there may be minors (current Hyde students, perhaps) visiting here. Please don't post things you wouldn't want your own kids to see. I'm not anti-porn, per se, but it's off-topic here. No point in alienating people who are just trying to find help on these pages. Thanks.
Quote
Ah, hell, I'm gonna let Mal give to you today: Malcolm Guald wrote: Absent an inspiring culture, the youth culture often takes over and the results sometimes turn out to be desperate, even tragic, attempts at shock-effect.
It was tragic attempt at shock, therefore not off topic. It this an attempt at group mediating my behaviour?
Title: Re: Keep it clean, please
Post by: Anonymous on October 17, 2007, 12:57:16 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
It this an attempt at group mediating my behaviour?
Is it an attempt at you mediating ours?
Title: Re: Keep it clean, please
Post by: Anonymous on October 17, 2007, 01:09:48 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""
It this an attempt at group mediating my behaviour?
Is it an attempt at you mediating ours?
Do you have a turd in your pocket, or are you a spokeperson?
Title: Re: Keep it clean, please
Post by: Anonymous on October 17, 2007, 01:18:08 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""
It this an attempt at group mediating my behaviour?
Is it an attempt at you mediating ours?
Do you have a turd in your pocket, or are you a spokeperson?
I find your condescending tone more amusing than irritating. Anyway, it's a good excuse for me to terminate this discussion here. Enjoy your cupchicks and have a good day.
Title: Re: Keep it clean, please
Post by: Anonymous on October 17, 2007, 01:24:03 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""
It this an attempt at group mediating my behaviour?
Is it an attempt at you mediating ours?
Do you have a turd in your pocket, or are you a spokeperson?
I find your condescending tone more amusing than irritating. Anyway, it's a good excuse for me to terminate this discussion here. Enjoy your cupchicks and have a good day.
You need an excuse. I excuse you.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Ursus on October 17, 2007, 08:33:29 PM
Whoa, Nellie!! Catfight!! And here I was thinking that all these posts were something of substance to ponder...
Guest-1 has a point re. kids viewing, although I wouldn't be thinking of current Hyde students so much as the elementary school aged. Point along similar lines would be viewing while at work. Text is one thing, but blatant visuals could cause problems for some.
On the other hand, Guest-2 also has a point re. "desperate, even tragic, attempts at shock-effect." I would add to this that what Hyde School does under the guise of "education" is more obscene than any mere visual could convey.
As far as being off-topic is concerned, this forum is utterly rife with that sort of thing, the Hyde portion of it perhaps excessively so. Since the forum is/can be essentially what you are willing to make it be... I say that those who are overly concerned about being on-topic should post more in order to make that way.
And finally, all things considered, the pic was pretty mild compared to some I've seen... At least one soul was certainly enjoying himself, ha haa!
Title: wassa big deal?
Post by: Anonymous on October 17, 2007, 09:23:20 PM
Hey just some girls eating shit and a little PA. The pic is from wikipedia. It is just like National Geographic.
Plus I was trying to warn the people that sick demented bastards like me go to Hyde and that Mom and Dad should keep their kids away from me. Ok no more smutty stuff, especially since Rob is reading. He was always such a nice boy and I don't want to corrupt him.
Hi Rob!
Title: Re: Malcolm weighs in
Post by: Ursus on October 18, 2007, 05:35:30 AM
Quote from: ""Ursus""
It sounds like they are really trying to capitalize on the inherent failures of "No Child Left Behind." But I'm not so sure that there is anything of substance which addresses that issue in this essay:
Quote from: ""Malcolm Gauld""
Classrooms of Character (http://http://web.archive.org/web/20031008060304/www.biggestjob.org/educators.html) Rule #1: Never kid a kid
A few months ago I sat in a Manhattan restaurant sharing thoughts on education with two seasoned New York City public school educators. The words of one of them have been ringing in my ears ever since we paid the check:
"We started talking about improving American education back when Lyndon Johnson launched the Great Society. Since then we... put a man on the moon... we removed the beating heart from one dying person and transplanted it in another to prolong life... we can communicate instantly via computer, etc. As for our schools, well, they're worse than they were when LBJ was president!"[/list] As a society, it is time to face up to the fact that our miraculous advances in science, medicine and technology have occurred despite a regression in our schools and families. Logic demands that we be highly suspicious of the notion of expecting to continue to enjoy the former without addressing the latter. Furthermore, we must ask the deeper question: How much can we really expect to "enjoy" these advances if the end result continues to be lifeless schools and unfulfilled families?
Meanwhile, we educators soldier on in the face of test score mania, the current educational silver bullet du jour intended to ensure that we "Leave No Child Behind." If you are reading this, perhaps you believe that the focus on testing isn't going to get us where we want go. Maybe you've had students who:
Work hard but do not meet the guidelines;
Do not meet guidelines and come from families who could care less;
Meet the guidelines but are not coming close to fulfilling their learning potential;
Meet the guidelines but you suspect they might be cheating;
Meet the guidelines but are not progressing in character development.
Perhaps you've observed schools that appear to manipulate who takes the tests and when they take them in order to "meet" the guidelines. We believe that it's time to face up to a simple truth: We care more about their aptitude than their attitude... and they know it.
My twenty-five years as an educator have taught me an essential lesson: never kid a kid. Despite the fact that they might fail to grasp the most basic math formula, they will never misread our true expectations of them. They know we have created an educational system that values their aptitude more than their attitude, their ability more than their effort, and their talent more than their character. Surrounded by signs that tell them that what they can do is more important than who they are, a growing number have come to a simple realization: If I cannot be good at being good, I might as well be good at being bad. They'd rather be bad than average.
I frequently ask high school students if they know any students at their schools who do next to no academic work and yet consistently make the honor roll. Most casually acknowledge this as common with a shrug: "Sure, some kids just have it and school rewards them." Many point admiringly to the student who is able to get the "A" with next to no effort. Furthermore, many of the students who are making the honor roll don't necessarily believe that their distinction is due to their efforts. They know that cheating is common, if not rampant, even among the top students. They know that many college-bound students, often on the advice of parents and teachers, will avoid taking a particularly challenging advanced course for fear that the low grade they might receive would hurt their chances for admission to an elite college. Regardless of their place in the hierarchy of their schools, kids know it's not about attitude. Absent an inspiring culture, the youth culture often takes over and the results sometimes turn out to be desperate, even tragic, attempts at shock-effect.
The great American movements have been fueled by the catalyst of powerful "either/or" propositions: Patriot or Tory? Blue or Gray? Equal opportunity for all OR separate but equal? For the sake of our kids, a new choice lies before us. It's time for a new view, one that values attitude over aptitude, effort over ability, and character over talent. The Biggest Job was established to help parents and teachers move their families and their schools in directions that reflect these priorities. As we forge ahead, we remain convinced of one thing: Character is inspired, not imparted. We don't pour it into kids; we help them pull it out of themselves. Our true beliefs and motivations set the stage. Attitude or aptitude? Choose today.
Malcolm Gauld President, Hyde Schools Bath, ME Woodstock, CT New Haven Washington DC
Again, I'm not sure that Hyde School is an inherently better alternative than "No Child Left Behind." If anything, it would appear to be a regression rather a concept to move forward on. Trying to cram a lot of square pegs into round holes didn't work in the past, why should it work in the future? The dogmatic "one size fits all" philosophy of Hyde penalizes and punishes those whose souls need a wider terrain. This is not a new choice. This one has been around for a long time.
As to the laudable ideals, I think we all know by now just how hypocritical and just how much of a failure Hyde is in trying to live up to those. I would say they are significantly worse in that regard than some of the worst public schools you can think of. Perhaps more importantly is the added bonus of Hyde's brainwashing techniques, so that if you are traumatized by your experience at Hyde, you are left with the take home that it is your fault, not Hyde's. In fact, it is never Hyde's fault, according to Hyde. At least with public school you are clear-minded enough to put the bullshit in the appropriate trash receptacle.
I also take some offense to the implication that all students going to public school are pressured into a superficial "achievement culture," and that only Hyde has the means and the inclination to get kids to strive for their authentic best. I found Hyde's methods rewarded superficial striving more than any other school environment I have ever encountered. And it was the kind of striving that had nothing to do with increasing my academic facilities, nor with my "preparation for life," but everything to do with toadying up to a brutal LGAT culture and increasing kids capacity to disembowel each other on a psychological level. It was Lord of the Flies in real life. This is the kind of "character" Hyde is trying to inspire in us!?
Ppfffttt!
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Ursus on October 18, 2007, 11:36:16 AM
It would appear that the underlying reason for The Biggest Job is to provide a means of financial windfall regardless of what happens to the boarding schools. The beauty of TBJ, from Hyde's standpoint, is that it functions much like a diet guru's marketing of his/her tried and true methods of reaching the desired goal.
Despite the Gaulds' claim that TBJ is no quick fix, the structuring of the 10 Priorities would appear to serve exactly those ends. Why, they even call it "the ultimate recipe" themselves! Certainly this is why people opt for Hyde's version of the character shill game as opposed to any number of other varieties out there. It's packaged nice and neat, with a "paint by the number"... er, a "discuss by the priority," blueprint to follow to a happy ending for both parent and child.
The Biggest Job® - lively, interactive workshops for parents, professionals, and children ages 6-18
The creators of The Biggest Job® workshops found the ultimate recipe for reaching one's highest potential. Based on 40 years of experience, the workshop's compelling and oftentimes humorous content will focus on 10 Priorities outlined in Laura and Malcolm Gauld's book, The Biggest Job® We'll Ever Have: The Hyde School Program for Character-based Parenting (Scribner).
Parents learn essential skills, critical to shaping family attitudes grounded in strong principles - principles that instill high expectations and develop the necessary tools to meet them.
Educators learn how to create dynamic, character-centered learning environments, where their students develop skills that build confidence and distinguish them from others.
Professionals hone skills they need to place families on a path that will lead them toward reaching their immediate and long-term goals.
Students of all ages experience first-hand how their attitudes, level of effort, and character are the true indicators that will determine whether or not they reach their best potential.
Using the 10 Priorities introduced in the workshops gives astonishing results. Participants from every kind of background have succeeded far beyond any expectations, because of what they learn. If you're looking for the best resource to help you, your school, or community identify and accomplish personal and professional goals, contact Pam Hardy at 207-443-7302 or http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=23657 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=23657)
Pam Hardy (contact noted above at Hyde for TBJ) is also the "Parent Seminar Facilitator" at the Civa School in Colorado Springs, where there is required attendance for these discussions of the 10 Priorities...
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Ursus on October 21, 2007, 07:13:35 AM
Here is the page on Programs. These are aimed at parents and teachers. Even if your kid does not attend Hyde School, you too can enjoy a mini version of Hyde up close and intimate. Not sure exactly what they mean with that last line that mentions educational consultants. Are they saying that they are some sort of educational consultants? Or are they saying that educational consultants are amongst the target audience for The Biggest Job wilderness program?
Parent and Teacher Workshop Follow-up Program Year-Long Community Program 60 - 90 Minute Presentation Know Yourself, Be Yourself Teacher Training Staff Development and Additional Teacher Training Options The Biggest Job Wilderness Program
Parent and Teacher Workshops
This three-to four-hour interactive workshop for parents or teachers outlines in detail the 10 Priorities. Using humor and anecdotes to teach practical skills for raising and teaching children and teens, this program gives participants an understanding of how to engage and communicate effectively with children by focusing on character development. Topics include:
Truth over Harmony
How to set high expectations and let go of the outcomes.
Allowing obstacles to become opportunities
Establishing a character culture in your home.
Click here to request more information.
Follow-up Program
This two-hour interactive workshop explores one of the 10 Priorities each month with parents and their children. The workshop begins with parents and children working separately with presenters as they review and discuss a Priority, then engage in exercises that cultivate the development of individual action steps toward personal change. The wrap-up session reunites parents and children to share personal discoveries. (Follow-up Program is also available for adults only.)
Click here to request more information.
Year-Long Community Program
A yearlong program for the entire community, offering a comprehensive exploration of the 10 Priorities. The program promises to elicit meaningful discussions, and engage participants in constructive exercises to work toward creating a character culture in the entire community. A sample package includes:
A separate workshop series for parents, for teachers and for families
Leadership training for parents, teachers and students
In-service workshops for teachers
Click here to request more information.
60 - 90 Minute Presentation
Introduces parenting priorities and explains how parents can build family strength around principles and personal vision. Workshops or a follow-up program may be scheduled after this presentation. Topics include:
Why is character development important?
How can family and school support each other?
What do our children really want from us?
Click here to request more information.
Know Yourself, Be Yourself
A three- to four-hour workshop for children and teens which guides them through a comprehensive exploration of three essential questions:
Who am I?
Where am I going?
What do I need to do to get there?
Know Yourself, Be Yourself will get children and teens to think about the important issues in their lives. The primary objective is not finding the answers to the questions, but in steering them toward and engaging them in the process of self-discovery.
In an action/reflection format that helps students develop the courage to be true to what they discover about themselves, the topics include:
Facing the tough issues, such as peer pressure, family-friend conflicts, bullying
Family strengths and obstacles
Creating a vision for the future
Self-definition: What do I want to stand for in my life?
(The above workshop is for students while parents are in their own workshop. At the conclusion of both, students and parents do collective exercises.)
Click here to request more information.
Teacher Training
A positive learning attitude is essential for students to meet their learning goals. Done at both boarding school campuses in Bath, ME and Woodstock, CT, the Biggest Job teacher training workshops will help teachers and administrators foster postive learning attitudes in the classroom and the school. It will train teachers to motivate students to take responsibility for their learning and thus improve their academic performance. Through experiential exercises, this training will:
Help you identify and address negative attitudes
Teach you strategies to improve communication with your students
Teach you how to work effectively with parents
Provide you with tools to create a character culture and positive learning environment in your school or classroom.
Click here to request more information.
Staff Development and Additional Teacher Training Options
We accommodate the varied needs of all schools by offering off-site teacher trainings for groups. They include:
Single and two-day introductory sessions
One-week individual training programs to meet the needs of each specific group.
Two-week group training programs for schools
Long-term (one- to two-year) training and consulting relationships.
Individually designed programs
The Biggest Job Wilderness Program
The Biggest Job Family Workshop in the wilderness is a weekend experience that will strengthen family attitudes in a beautiful mountain setting. Developed by Laura Gauld, director of Family Education for the Hyde Schools organization, these wilderness workshops have been developed over three decades of experience.
Topics include:
Strengthening family relationships
Learning how to set high expectations
Getting on the same page with the family's vision
Establishing honesty as a family priority
Understanding roles within the family
Each family will experience outdoor activities to understand family dynamics, a time for family reflection, canoeing on scenic Flagstaff Lake and a wrap-up Maine clambake. These summer-time family workshops begin Thursday night at Hyde School's Family Learning Center in Bath, Maine, with the days spent at Hyde's stunning Black Wilderness Preserve on Flagstaff Lake in Eustis. Educational consultants to create training sessions that meet the specific needs of their group.
Dates: New Dates coming soon. Click here to request more information.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on October 21, 2007, 08:40:24 AM
Quote
Educational consultants to create training sessions that meet the specific needs of their group.
I was raised by grammarians, I never studied the fine points of English grammar myself but have an intuitive ear for it. Kind of like what the supreme court justice said about porn, I know bad grammar when I hear it. I do not believe the quote is a complete sentence. The noun is "consultants." "Educational" is an adjective that modifies the noun. "To create training sessions that meet the specific needs of their group" is a phrase even though it has a verb in it. I _think_ it is a subjunctive clause: http://www.bartleby.com/64/C001/061.html (http://www.bartleby.com/64/C001/061.html)
A complete sentance is a complete thought. For example the fragment could be completed in the following manner:
Educational consultants, to create training sessions that meet the specific needs of their group, have elected not to attend the Hyde sessions since the staff at Hyde have a proclivity for poor written communications.
Hey I got to go for a four miler then I am going to listen to Lowell George sing Jimmy Webb:
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on October 21, 2007, 08:46:14 AM
Blow me, nigger.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on October 21, 2007, 09:12:44 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Blow me, nigger.
That is an example of a complete sentence. In the imperative tone, the noun is implied.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on October 21, 2007, 09:48:20 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Blow me, nigger.
That is an example of a complete sentence. In the imperative tone, the noun is implied.
:rofl:
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Ursus on October 21, 2007, 09:58:26 AM
Perhaps Hyde might do well to heed John Allen Paulos' words:
Quote from: ""Dr. John Allen Paulos""
Developing character, instilling self-esteem, involving parents and arranging adequate financing are all necessary, but the deficiencies in factual knowledge and critical thinking skills remain the most troubling and irremediable. It's not surprising that some studies have indicated that despite their miserable performance on international math tests, for example, American students rank near the top when it comes to mathematical self-confidence. If we allow too many of our children to grow into gullible ignoramuses brimming with character and self-esteem, we'll be perpetrating a fraud far worse than the one with which I began this survey. http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=22009&start=109 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=22009&start=109)
They might then be better able to make comprehendible use of the imperative tone themselves, ha haa!
Title: grammar
Post by: Anonymous on October 21, 2007, 11:01:18 AM
I assumed that the direction in the post,
Quote
Blow me, nigger.
was from Hyde staff. It is a simple well constructed sentence despite the fact that it is expressing a crude directive, using a racial invective.
While we are on the subject of grammar, I must apologize for my daughters post on another thread. She changed the recipient of the transitive verb to plural and forgot to change the verb. I would also like to state that Electra's husband is not Jimmy Webb, the fine American tunesmith of such songs a "Wichita Lineman"
Don't forest to use real sugar in your coffee, even if you microwave it .. the coffee that is.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on October 22, 2007, 01:38:42 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Blow me, nigger.
That is an example of a complete sentence. In the imperative tone, the noun is implied.
My bad.
Blow, me nigger.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on October 26, 2007, 09:53:11 AM
Quote from: ""Ursus""
It would appear that the underlying reason for The Biggest Job is to provide a means of financial windfall regardless of what happens to the boarding schools. The beauty of TBJ, from Hyde's standpoint, is that it functions much like a diet guru's marketing of his/her tried and true methods of reaching the desired goal.
Despite the Gaulds' claim that TBJ is no quick fix, the structuring of the 10 Priorities would appear to serve exactly those ends. Why, they even call it "the ultimate recipe" themselves! Certainly this is why people opt for Hyde's version of the character shill game as opposed to any number of other varieties out there. It's packaged nice and neat, with a "paint by the number"... er, a "discuss by the priority," blueprint to follow to a happy ending for both parent and child.
The Biggest Job® - lively, interactive workshops for parents, professionals, and children ages 6-18
The creators of The Biggest Job® workshops found the ultimate recipe for reaching one's highest potential. Based on 40 years of experience, the workshop's compelling and oftentimes humorous content will focus on 10 Priorities outlined in Laura and Malcolm Gauld's book, The Biggest Job® We'll Ever Have: The Hyde School Program for Character-based Parenting (Scribner).
Parents learn essential skills, critical to shaping family attitudes grounded in strong principles - principles that instill high expectations and develop the necessary tools to meet them.
Educators learn how to create dynamic, character-centered learning environments, where their students develop skills that build confidence and distinguish them from others.
Professionals hone skills they need to place families on a path that will lead them toward reaching their immediate and long-term goals.
Students of all ages experience first-hand how their attitudes, level of effort, and character are the true indicators that will determine whether or not they reach their best potential.
Using the 10 Priorities introduced in the workshops gives astonishing results. Participants from every kind of background have succeeded far beyond any expectations, because of what they learn. If you're looking for the best resource to help you, your school, or community identify and accomplish personal and professional goals, contact Pam Hardy at 207-443-7302 or http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=23657 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=23657)
Pam Hardy (contact noted above at Hyde for TBJ) is also the "Parent Seminar Facilitator" at the Civa School in Colorado Springs, where there is required attendance for these discussions of the 10 Priorities...
This is one slick marketing job. I see that you can even buy your own Biggest Job fridge maganets!
When I was growing up, having "character" meant that you just did the right thing, even if it cost you some, monetarily or reputation-wise. Hyde just DOESN'T do the right thing at all! Simple as that! Where do they get off calling themselves the experts in the character business? Just because they trademark certain phrases they think they have a monopoly on it? You can't trademark character, and Hyde is the poorest example of it out there anyway.
Title: The 10 Priorities (from Biggest Job)
Post by: Anonymous on November 12, 2007, 08:45:24 AM