Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Che Gookin on September 10, 2007, 07:21:01 AM
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Che Gookin on September 10, 2007, 07:21:01 AM
I have zero faith in the ability of legislature in the area of passing effective regulations against TBS programmes. I've seen their ability to change to meet the new circumstances first hand. Congress will put on a big song and dance whilst programmes snigger and make a few superficial changes.
My thoughts on this calls for a long term war against the very roots of the problems. Or at least the part of the problem I believe that can be addressed in the area of the incredible ignorance that exists in our population to this very day. This is despite the fact that numerous websites, forums, books, and now movies exist.
Time and persistence will help reduce this ignorance in our society. Thoughts ideas and suggestions are being called for to address this matter. I've already started on a writing project of my own, put on hold due to my current vacation, but it will be finished.
IDEas biatches..
and not just Oh lets let Maia deal with it.
come on people.. takes an entire damn army not just one soldier.
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Ursus on September 10, 2007, 07:34:06 AM
A MAJOR obstacle in trying to oust the Troubled Teen Industry has to do with the fact that it is a real money maker. This has resulted in its being absorbed by the more pervasive, prolific, and highly entrenched substance abuse industry. Witness CRC Health Corporation's acquisition of Aspen Educational Group in September/October of 2006. Prior to branching out in the Residential Treatment arena, CRC Health was, and still remains, perhaps the largest non-government substance abuse provider in the United States. "Non-government" may be in name only. The former Director of the White House Office of Drug Control Policy, General Barry McCaffrey, is a prolific spokesperson for CRC Health's eGetgoing project, and on CRC's Board of Directors.
The financial markets have noticed, and are now involved in the buying and selling of these companys and institutions as viable, and lucrative, commodities. Witness Bain Capital LLC's acquisition of CRC Health Corp. for $720 Million, a deal announced in October of 2005, and finalized in February of 2006. Bain Capital, incidentally, was co-founded in 1984 by presidential candidate Mitt Romney. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bain_Capital (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bain_Capital)
Legislation ain't gonna do shit when the seemingly sanctioned sources of finance are involved on this level. Welcome to the New World Order.
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Che Gookin on September 10, 2007, 08:43:42 AM
My original point about legislation being about as useful as a fart in the win just reinforced.. thank you Urusus.
However, what is it you suggest be done?
My growing focus will be to build the .info net even larger than it is now once I get back to korea, and to do some low level article writing.
Hopefully someone might notice the material that is on the .info net and make some intelligent choice regarding their children.
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Froderik on September 10, 2007, 08:50:42 AM
Thank you for starting this thread, TSW. I share in you skepticism.
An idea: Aside from the positive side-effects of decriminalization, effective medication and a potential dent in alcoholism, the legalization of marijuana (and possibly other illicit substances) would make a statement of incredible gravity. Of course, it would take more than mere legislation to make this happen, but could perhaps be brought about in other ways (ask psy about this). However, if this law could eventually be passed, it would effectively be saying to us as a nation: "Looks like we {the government} was wrong about this thing all along. Looks like we really didn't know what was best for you, after all. Maybe people should think twice before believing what they are told to believe about something."
Programs are all about control. The legalization of pot would be a statement against the need for arbitrary control, and an admission that our government is capable of an error in judgement. Perhaps this notion would trickle down into other aspects of society...
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Che Gookin on September 10, 2007, 09:46:19 AM
Hmm something more direct... perhaps an e-zine of sorts? Fornits is full of capable writers.
Message is spread..
following is gathered...
etc.
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Ursus on September 10, 2007, 10:13:59 AM
Legislation is not entirely hopeless, TSW, but it is very slow in its coming. You need to get people involved who are good at that sort of thing, and those people are generally not very versed in the TT industry. And it can only do so much, but would it certainly help solidify that steps forward are more difficult to reverse. Note that I said "solidify," not "ensure."
Frod's comment re. decriminalization of marijuana raises interesting historical context, as some people believe it was through the emphatic efforts of Hearst, Dupont, and one other company whose name escapes me at the moment, that marijuana ended up being criminalized in the first place. Enlisting the self interests of the Federal Bureau of Narcotics clinched the matter and the rest is history.
In the 17th century hemp was encouraged by the government in the production of rope, sails, and clothing; however, hemp use declined in the late eighteenth century. In the late nineteenth century, marijuana became a common ingredient in medicine and was openly sold at pharmacies.[2]
In 1916, United States Department of Agriculture (USDA) chief scientists Jason L. Merrill, Lyster H. Dewe, and Jason L. Merrill created paper made from hemp pulp, which they concluded was "favorable in comparison with those used with pulp wood in USDA Bulletin No. 404."[3] Jack Herer, in the book "The Emperor Wears No Clothes" summarized the findings of Bulletin No. 404:[4]
USDA Bulletin No. 404, reported that one acre of hemp, in annual rotation over a 20-year period, would produce as much pulp for paper as 4.1 acres of trees being cut down over the same 20-year period. This process would use only 1/4 to 1/7 as much polluting sulfur-based acid chemicals to break down the glue-like lignin that binds the fibers of the pulp, or even none at all using soda ash. The problem of dioxin contamination of rivers is avoided in the hemp paper making process, which does not need to use chlorine bleach (as the wood pulp paper making process requires) but instead safely substitutes hydrogen peroxide in the bleaching process. ... If the new (1916) hemp pulp paper process were legal today, it would soon replace about 70% of all wood pulp paper, including computer printout paper, corrugated boxes and paper bags.[/list] These findings by the USDA triggered opposition from William Randolph Hearst and DuPont, as hemp was a direct competitor with products they produced. Some marijuana researchers believe marijuana would not have been criminalized if not for Hearst and DuPont's influence (See the DuPont and William Randolph Hearst section for further information).[/color][/list] From introductory comments by David Solomon to the full text of The Marihuana Tax Act of 1937: http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/hem ... taxact.htm (http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/hemp/taxact/mjtaxact.htm)
The popular and therapeutic uses of hemp preparations are not categorically prohibited by the provisions of the Marihuana Tax Act of 1937. The apparent purpose of the Act is to levy a token tax of approximately one dollar on all buyers, sellers, importers, growers, physicians, veterinarians, and any other persons who deal in marijuana commercially, prescribe it professionally, or possess it.
The deceptive nature of that apparent purpose begins to come into focus when the reader reaches the penalty provisions of the Act: five years' imprisonment, a $2,000 fine, or both seem rather excessive for evading a sum (provided for by the purchase of a Treasury Department tax stamp) that, even if collected, would produce only a minute amount of government revenue. (Fines and jail sentences were f urther increased to the point of the cruel and unusual in subsequent federal drug legislation that incorporated the Marijuana Tax Act. It is now possible under the later version of the Act to draw a life sentence for selling just one marihuana cigarette to a minor.) One might wonder, too, why a small clause, amounting to an open-ended catchall provision, was inserted into the Act, authorizing the Secretary of the Treasury to grant the Commissioner (then Harry Anslinger) and agents of the Treasury Department's Bureau of Narcotics absolute administrative regulatory, and police powers in the enforcement of the law. The message becomes entirely clear when, having finished the short text of the Act itself, one proceeds to the sixty-odd pages of administrative and enforcement procedures established by the infamous Regulations No. 1. That regulation, not fully reproduced here, calls for a maze of affidavits, depositions, sworn statements, and constant Treasury Department police inspection in every instance that marijuana is bought, sold, used, raised, distributed, given away, and so on. Physicians who wish to purchase the one-dollar tax stamp so that they might prescribe it for their patients are forced to report such use to the Federal Bureau of Narcotics in sworn and attested detail, revealing the name and address of the patient, the nature of his ailment, the dates and amounts prescribed, and so on. If a physician for any reason fails to do so immediately, both he and his patient are liable to imprisonment-and a heavy fine. Obviously, the details of that regulation make it far too risky for anyone to have anything to do with marijuana in any way whatsoever.
Regulations No. 1 was more than an invasion of the traditional right of privacy between patient and physician; it was a hopelessly involved set of rules that were obviously designed not merely to discourage but to prohibit the medical and popular use of marijuana. In addition to the Marihuana Tax Act and Regulations No. 1, the Bureau of Narcotics prepared a standard bill for marihuana that more than forty state legislatures enacted. This bill made possession and use of marihuana illegal per se, and so reinforced the federal act.[/list]
All this underscores my premise that it is ultimately and primarily through economic self-interests that any legislation gets passed; in the above case, in a not necessarily progressive direction.
What economic self interests can be better served by criminalizing the TT industry? The climate in this country, not to mention the world, seems to be currently moving towards more restriction and control, not less.
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Anonymous on September 10, 2007, 12:04:03 PM
i agree with the legalization of marijuana being a huge social statement which would indirectly lead to more regulation of the tbs industry, but i think it will also polarize and radicalize the population, the people who are still brainwashed by anslinger propaganda will turn into radicals - you'll see alot more crazy parents screaming "oh will anyone think of the children blaaah...". i think we need to wait a few years untill that generation just dies [it's about time!], then it shouldnt be a problem. i think once our generation hits the house weed will most definitely become legal.
i think what we can start doing is educating parents, starting when their kids are in preschool about these institutions. bring it up at PTA meetings, etc. warn other parents about the potential danger. use the whole dateline NBC technique of using fear to spread the word. show them that these institutions are scary - show them that the institutions can do way more damage than any drug.
also hand out flyers at middle and high schools. inform kids of the potential threat. show them where to go and what to do if someone they know has been sent away. personally, even when i got back from hla, the kids at home had no idea where i was, or what the place was like. no matter how much i tried to explain what it was like they simply could not fathom it, they could not belive me, they still think i'm a liar and that these places are too illegal to exist. educate the populace.
another great idea is a parent boycott. if you know of a parent who has sent their kid away, who is away at the moment, boycott them. dont talk to them, refuse to let them in your house. make their lives miserable. have the kid's freinds hold protests outside the house (this actually worked once!!!!). if they come into your store or resturant, kick them out. cut them off on the road. be rude. throw salt on their lawn (maybe write out "child abuser" in salt on their lawn. prank call them. throw trash on their yard. graffiti their house. make their lives miserable. if you can, try to get the whole town in on the shunning.
the only reason continue to send their kids away despite the warnings is a combination of desperation and because it's socially acceptable, almost even a fad. "johhny and sue down the block sent their kids away, why cant we?" i remember a few years ago i was on the bus and some women were talking about treatment centers, one had their kid at casa by the sea and the other was considering sending her daughter to P.V. well, i raised a big fuss, i screamed "child torturers", and gave the entire bus a quick summary of what Casa by the sea is, and that this woman sent her own daughter there. the whole bus started staring at them, giving them dirty looks, one guy even came up and spit on one of the woman....the woman then ordered the bus to stop, they got off, and as it was pulling away i saw one of them collapse in tears. make it so that it's not socially acceptable for parents to send away kids. make it so that it's roughly as acceptable as branding your kids with an iron - and the industry will die.
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Anonymous on September 10, 2007, 12:22:03 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
i remember a few years ago i was on the bus and some women were talking about treatment centers, one had their kid at casa by the sea and the other was considering sending her daughter to P.V. well, i raised a big fuss, i screamed "child torturers", and gave the entire bus a quick summary of what Casa by the sea is, and that this woman sent her own daughter there. the whole bus started staring at them, giving them dirty looks, one guy even came up and spit on one of the woman....the woman then ordered the bus to stop, they got off, and as it was pulling away i saw one of them collapse in tears. make it so that it's not socially acceptable for parents to send away kids. make it so that it's roughly as acceptable as branding your kids with an iron - and the industry will die.
I would of loved to see that! :D
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Ursus on September 10, 2007, 12:31:13 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
...the only reason continue to send their kids away despite the warnings is a combination of desperation and because it's socially acceptable, almost even a fad.
Undeniable fact. Nay, not even socially acceptable, but even a perverted form of status symbol, in cases where the institution in question costs big bucks.
Kind of reminds me of Jacques Tati's last film "Playtime." There's a scene in a restaurant, which -- due to the owner's greed -- opened before the construction of building was even complete. Predictably, the building begins to fall apart around them, since everyone has just got to attend this new, hip, and happening place. Throngs of people are lined up at the door, clamoring to get in, pushing and conniving their way past the bouncers at the door. In fact, part of the reason the building is falling apart is due to the shoving and other physicalities that people resort to in their goal of entrance, and the owner's greed in allowing too many of them in, more than the restaurant could even have accommodated once the building was complete.
One particular destination within this restaurant is the pinnacle of desirability, a seating area where the paint on the chairs has not yet dried. The wrought iron design is that of a crown, and when people sit down, the design gets imprinted on their backs. This imprint of the crown then becomes a status symbol, and everyone wants to become one of "the elite," branded by the crown. One of the customers sets up his own little fiefdom, accepting or denying access to this table (with the wet crown chairs) based on how much others suck up to him. By this point, food is but incidental to the experience. Things get violent, and all ends in a brawl...
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Anonymous on September 10, 2007, 12:37:59 PM
I don't think it's as socially acceptable as you all think. Most parents tell their "real friends" their kid is at boarding school or something like that. Most families are embarrassed of their so called troubled teen, that is one reason they like these programs, they can make their kid disappear very quickly with no questions asked. Of course having your kid kidnapped from their room and taken to forced brainwashing sessions is not socially acceptable, not to anyone who has an inkling of knowledge of the reality of such a situation. These parents know what they are doing is wrong, they feel it in their gut. But they let whatever program salesperson 'talk them into it', in other words, confirm a terrible idea. They communicate with each other online, have support groups, even meet in person to wallow in self pity about how difficult their life is. What could they possibly mean, their life has not changed at all, but for the better, if their child was really troubled and they are getting help, why the worry- they should be happy, right? They are trying to escape the obvious fact that what they did was cruel, and use many means to do so. Including, volunteering to be brainwashed in parent seminars in certain programs and/or volunteer to market and even work for the program. They need to believe that which is not true. A lot of kids keep it secret when they get home too, who wants to explain to people where you had been, as if explanation is worthy of such a strange and surreal experience in human depravity.
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Froderik on September 10, 2007, 12:38:12 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
i think what we can start doing is educating parents, starting when their kids are in preschool about these institutions. bring it up at PTA meetings, etc. warn other parents about the potential danger. use the whole dateline NBC technique of using fear to spread the word. show them that these institutions are scary - show them that the institutions can do way more damage than any drug.
also hand out flyers at middle and high schools. inform kids of the potential threat. show them where to go and what to do if someone they know has been sent away. personally, even when i got back from hla, the kids at home had no idea where i was, or what the place was like. no matter how much i tried to explain what it was like they simply could not fathom it, they could not belive me, they still think i'm a liar and that these places are too illegal to exist. educate the populace.
another great idea is a parent boycott. if you know of a parent who has sent their kid away, who is away at the moment, boycott them. dont talk to them, refuse to let them in your house. make their lives miserable. have the kid's freinds hold protests outside the house (this actually worked once!!!!). if they come into your store or resturant, kick them out. cut them off on the road. be rude. throw salt on their lawn (maybe write out "child abuser" in salt on their lawn. prank call them. throw trash on their yard. graffiti their house. make their lives miserable. if you can, try to get the whole town in on the shunning.
These are all excellent ideas!
Quote
the only reason continue to send their kids away despite the warnings is a combination of desperation and because it's socially acceptable, almost even a fad. "johhny and sue down the block sent their kids away, why cant we?" i remember a few years ago i was on the bus and some women were talking about treatment centers, one had their kid at casa by the sea and the other was considering sending her daughter to P.V. well, i raised a big fuss, i screamed "child torturers", and gave the entire bus a quick summary of what Casa by the sea is, and that this woman sent her own daughter there. the whole bus started staring at them, giving them dirty looks, one guy even came up and spit on one of the woman....the woman then ordered the bus to stop, they got off, and as it was pulling away i saw one of them collapse in tears. make it so that it's not socially acceptable for parents to send away kids. make it so that it's roughly as acceptable as branding your kids with an iron - and the industry will die.
Yeah!!!! ::hehehmm:: ::rocker:: ::bwahaha2::
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Anne Bonney on September 10, 2007, 12:43:47 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
i agree with the legalization of marijuana being a huge social statement which would indirectly lead to more regulation of the tbs industry, but i think it will also polarize and radicalize the population, the people who are still brainwashed by anslinger propaganda will turn into radicals - you'll see alot more crazy parents screaming "oh will anyone think of the children blaaah...". i think we need to wait a few years untill that generation just dies [it's about time!], then it shouldnt be a problem. i think once our generation hits the house weed will most definitely become legal.
I hope and think it may come about, or at least start, even sooner than that. It's not just the stiff in the suits though. It's their benefactors...Big Pharma.
Quote
i think what we can start doing is educating parents, starting when their kids are in preschool about these institutions. bring it up at PTA meetings, etc. warn other parents about the potential danger. use the whole dateline NBC technique of using fear to spread the word. show them that these institutions are scary - show them that the institutions can do way more damage than any drug.
also hand out flyers at middle and high schools. inform kids of the potential threat. show them where to go and what to do if someone they know has been sent away. personally, even when i got back from hla, the kids at home had no idea where i was, or what the place was like. no matter how much i tried to explain what it was like they simply could not fathom it, they could not belive me, they still think i'm a liar and that these places are too illegal to exist. educate the populace.
another great idea is a parent boycott. if you know of a parent who has sent their kid away, who is away at the moment, boycott them. dont talk to them, refuse to let them in your house. make their lives miserable. have the kid's freinds hold protests outside the house (this actually worked once!!!!). if they come into your store or resturant, kick them out. cut them off on the road. be rude. throw salt on their lawn (maybe write out "child abuser" in salt on their lawn. prank call them. throw trash on their yard. graffiti their house. make their lives miserable. if you can, try to get the whole town in on the shunning.
the only reason continue to send their kids away despite the warnings is a combination of desperation and because it's socially acceptable, almost even a fad. "johhny and sue down the block sent their kids away, why cant we?"
:nworthy: :nworthy:
Quote
i remember a few years ago i was on the bus and some women were talking about treatment centers, one had their kid at casa by the sea and the other was considering sending her daughter to P.V. well, i raised a big fuss, i screamed "child torturers", and gave the entire bus a quick summary of what Casa by the sea is, and that this woman sent her own daughter there. the whole bus started staring at them, giving them dirty looks, one guy even came up and spit on one of the woman....the woman then ordered the bus to stop, they got off, and as it was pulling away i saw one of them collapse in tears. make it so that it's not socially acceptable for parents to send away kids. make it so that it's roughly as acceptable as branding your kids with an iron - and the industry will die.
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Anonymous on September 10, 2007, 12:49:58 PM
Quote
i remember a few years ago i was on the bus and some women were talking about treatment centers, one had their kid at casa by the sea and the other was considering sending her daughter to P.V. well, i raised a big fuss, i screamed "child torturers", and gave the entire bus a quick summary of what Casa by the sea is, and that this woman sent her own daughter there. the whole bus started staring at them, giving them dirty looks, one guy even came up and spit on one of the woman....the woman then ordered the bus to stop, they got off, and as it was pulling away i saw one of them collapse in tears. make it so that it's not socially acceptable for parents to send away kids. make it so that it's roughly as acceptable as branding your kids with an iron - and the industry will die.
Please tell me this was caught on camera. Someone needs to Youtube this.
Title: I'd've been screaming at them too
Post by: 3xsaSeedling on September 10, 2007, 01:03:22 PM
It's the mentality that keeps all these 'kid farms' open. moneymoneymoneymoneymoney :flame: This is the kind of stuff that really sets me on fire. :flame: 'We've' created a disposable society where it's easier/cheaper to just replace what doesn't fit our plans. Sadly some children have fallen victim to this thinking, and are then used as examples for the whole. We don't need 'better places': we NEED BETTER PARENTS.
::poke:: I do enjoy watching 'the poking of TheBear' One of these times, ::poke:: TheBear is going to turn around and take that stick ::poke:: , and ... I'll enjoy watching that alot more ::seg::
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: TheWho on September 10, 2007, 01:05:37 PM
Quote
another great idea is a parent boycott. if you know of a parent who has sent their kid away, who is away at the moment, boycott them. dont talk to them, refuse to let them in your house. make their lives miserable. have the kid's freinds hold protests outside the house (this actually worked once!!!!). if they come into your store or resturant, kick them out. cut them off on the road. be rude. throw salt on their lawn (maybe write out "child abuser" in salt on their lawn. prank call them. throw trash on their yard. graffiti their house. make their lives miserable. if you can, try to get the whole town in on the shunning.
the only reason continue to send their kids away despite the warnings is a combination of desperation and because it's socially acceptable, almost even a fad. "johhny and sue down the block sent their kids away, why cant we?" i remember a few years ago i was on the bus and some women were talking about treatment centers, one had their kid at casa by the sea and the other was considering sending her daughter to P.V. well, i raised a big fuss, i screamed "child torturers", and gave the entire bus a quick summary of what Casa by the sea is, and that this woman sent her own daughter there. the whole bus started staring at them, giving them dirty looks, one guy even came up and spit on one of the woman....the woman then ordered the bus to stop, they got off, and as it was pulling away i saw one of them collapse in tears. make it so that it's not socially acceptable for parents to send away kids. make it so that it's roughly as acceptable as branding your kids with an iron - and the industry will die.
Boycott or shunning wont work IMO. You need to try to get involved on a personal level and try to help instead of getting into someones face. When my daughter attend ASR there were people who disapproved of our decision and some were outspoken and wanted to know what circumstanced and actions we took prior the decision etc. But they see now that it was a good one, she is doing well and has moved on with her life. Some of the people who questioned our decision have children who are not doing that great, one of which is in prison, another who is so heavily into drugs it seems to have taken over his life, cant keep a job or an apartment. But there are kids that made it thru, don’t get me wrong. It’s a tough call…….
My point is that we cant go around telling other people how to raise their kids or when to seek outside help and boycotting them because they don’t do what we think is right.
I have a neighbor whose child would greatly benefit from outside help, local therapist maybe, but she will not hear any of it. I think a little advice is good, maybe information in the mail. But I don’t think writing Graffiti all over her house or shunning her would benefit her or her daughter.
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Ursus on September 10, 2007, 01:07:02 PM
re. Parents:
Quote from: ""Guest""
Including, volunteering to be brainwashed in parent seminars in certain programs and/or volunteer to market and even work for the program.
Compulsory at Hyde. And if you beg out of it for "extenuating circumstances," e.g., you just had an operation earlier that day and are still recovering, your kid suffers, gets singled out as not having enough commitment, cause they obviously weren't able to convince the parent... This happened to me when I was the kid in that scenario.
Quote from: ""Guest""
i think what we can start doing is educating parents, starting when their kids are in preschool about these institutions. bring it up at PTA meetings, etc. warn other parents about the potential danger. use the whole dateline NBC technique of using fear to spread the word. show them that these institutions are scary - show them that the institutions can do way more damage than any drug.
THIS I do. And you wouldn't believe how much of a pariah these people think of me. I am shunned by them! It is so disheartening!...
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Ursus on September 10, 2007, 01:09:18 PM
Quote from: ""3xsaSeedling""
::poke:: I do enjoy watching 'the poking of TheBear' One of these times, ::poke:: TheBear is going to turn around and take that stick ::poke:: , and ... I'll enjoy watching that alot more ::seg::
Hey... you talking 'bout me, 3X? :lol:
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: 3xsaSeedling on September 10, 2007, 01:10:45 PM
ABSOLUTELY
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: 3xsaSeedling on September 10, 2007, 01:31:21 PM
Quote from: ""Ursus""
Quote from: ""3xsaSeedling""
::poke:: I do enjoy watching 'the poking of TheBear' One of these times, ::poke:: TheBear is going to turn around and take that stick ::poke:: , and ... I'll enjoy watching that alot more ::seg::
Hey... you talking 'bout me, 3X? :lol:
You, the cubs and all the hunny-loving, TP advertising, ferocious carnivors so-inclined! And in the event 'they' aren't ALL aware: ::poke:: HEY BEAR: ::poke::
:o ooOOPPSS!
::seg:: ::roflmao:: ::roflmao:: isocannotwait
Quote
Ursus said: THIS I do. And you wouldn't believe how much of a pariah these people think of me. I am shunned by them! It is so disheartening!...
My extended family treats me like that, and ALL I did was tell them 'stories'!! They think I'm nuts!!
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Joseph W. Gauld on September 10, 2007, 01:39:50 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Boycott or shunning wont work IMO. You need to try to get involved on a personal level and try to help instead of getting into someones face. When my daughter attend ASR there were people who disapproved of our decision and some were outspoken and wanted to know what circumstanced and actions we took prior the decision etc. But they see now that it was a good one, she is doing well and has moved on with her life. Some of the people who questioned our decision have children who are not doing that great, one of which is in prison, another who is so heavily into drugs it seems to have taken over his life, cant keep a job or an apartment. But there are kids that made it thru, don’t get me wrong. It’s a tough call…….
My point is that we cant go around telling other people how to raise their kids or when to seek outside help and boycotting them because they don’t do what we think is right.
I have a neighbor whose child would greatly benefit from outside help, local therapist maybe, but she will not hear any of it. I think a little advice is good, maybe information in the mail. But I don’t think writing Graffiti all over her house or shunning her would benefit her or her daughter.
Now now, Who... These people here don't understand you like I do. I know exactly what you mean by "deadinsaneinjailorLibertarian!" Too bad you didn't send yer daughter to Hyde, I mighta even done the honors myself, if ya know what I mean, heh heh heh!!
But I disagree wit ya about telling parents how to raise their children. See, we at Hyde School are professionals at this sort of thing, and know better about how to bring up lil Jimmer Junior from the cocoon of adolescence into the butterfly of adulthood.
Enthusiastic about Programmie Parents, Joseph W. Gau!d, The Educator
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Ursus on September 10, 2007, 01:45:35 PM
Quote from: ""3xsaSeedling""
Quote from: ""Ursus""
Quote from: ""3xsaSeedling""
::poke:: I do enjoy watching 'the poking of TheBear' One of these times, ::poke:: TheBear is going to turn around and take that stick ::poke:: , and ... I'll enjoy watching that alot more ::seg::
Hey... you talking 'bout me, 3X? :lol:
You, the cubs and all the hunny-loving, TP advertising, ferocious carnivors so-inclined! And in the event 'they' aren't ALL aware: ::poke:: HEY BEAR: ::poke::
:o ooOOPPSS!
::seg:: ::roflmao:: ::roflmao:: isocannotwait
Quote
Ursus said: THIS I do. And you wouldn't believe how much of a pariah these people think of me. I am shunned by them! It is so disheartening!...
My extended family treats me like that, and ALL I did was tell them 'stories'!! They think I'm nuts!!
Do people really think I advertise toilet paper? ::huh:: ::huh:: ::huh::
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: 3xsaSeedling on September 10, 2007, 01:46:41 PM
Father Lohan
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Did you see Larry King Interview with Lindsay Lohan's dad (who just got out of jail in March) praising Teen Challenge-- in which he is now an employee? He is hoping he can "get Lindsay to go"... "its not just for teens."
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:flame: THIS is exactly what I'm talking about. :flame: [/u]
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Ursus on September 10, 2007, 01:51:25 PM
Quote from: ""3xsaSeedling""
Quote
Did you see Larry King Interview with Lindsay Lohan's dad (who just got out of jail in March) praising Teen Challenge-- in which he is now an employee? He is hoping he can "get Lindsay to go"... "its not just for teens."
:flame: THIS is exactly what I'm talking about. :flame:
And this pertains to toilet paper, or me, how? Just curious, as I seem to be missing something here...
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: 3xsaSeedling on September 10, 2007, 01:53:40 PM
Quote
Do people really think I advertise toilet paper? ::huh:: ::huh:: ::huh::
ALL things being equal? I think not you personally!! :wink: :wink:
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: 3xsaSeedling on September 10, 2007, 01:56:19 PM
Quote from: ""Ursus""
Quote from: ""3xsaSeedling""
Quote
Did you see Larry King Interview with Lindsay Lohan's dad (who just got out of jail in March) praising Teen Challenge-- in which he is now an employee? He is hoping he can "get Lindsay to go"... "its not just for teens."
:flame: THIS is exactly what I'm talking about. :flame:
And this pertains to toilet paper, or me, how? Just curious, as I seem to be missing something here...
I was reading elsewhere...you didn't miss anything. Doesn't relate to TP; not directly anyhow. I'm really slow w/the typing, sooo....
Title: Re: Winning The Culture War
Post by: psy on September 10, 2007, 02:01:02 PM
Quote from: ""Wandering Waygookin""
I have zero faith in the ability of legislature in the area of passing effective regulations against TBS programmes. I've seen their ability to change to meet the new circumstances first hand. Congress will put on a big song and dance whilst programmes snigger and make a few superficial changes.
Yup. That's the way I think it will go as well, though I doubt congress will make much of a song and dance at all. I'm hoping for the media to take an interest but doubt they will... Well. Who knows.
Quote
My thoughts on this calls for a long term war against the very roots of the problems. Or at least the part of the problem I believe that can be addressed in the area of the incredible ignorance that exists in our population to this very day. This is despite the fact that numerous websites, forums, books, and now movies exist.
Ignorance exists on a wide variety of subjects, not just the TTI.
Quote
Time and persistence will help reduce this ignorance in our society. Thoughts ideas and suggestions are being called for to address this matter. I've already started on a writing project of my own, put on hold due to my current vacation, but it will be finished.
IDEas biatches..
and not just Oh lets let Maia deal with it.
come on people.. takes an entire damn army not just one soldier.
Well. Here are some things you can do:
- Talk to people about the issue. You don't have to tell them you were in a program, but if the opportunity arises, why not let people know this industry exists. Keep some URLs bookmarked and handy so when they go "you just made that up" you can point them to the source.
- Burn DVDs of movies pertaining to the industry. If you can get source material on your own, just tell me what you're looking for and i'll point you to a DVD image you can burn. Once the DVDs are burned (you can get a stack of 100 for around 20$ usually) put them in paper cd envelopes (or jewel cases if you really want) and tape them to newspapers (Sunday paper is probably best). include links to a few websites (eg: fornits.com isaccorp.org teenadvocatesusa.org etc...)
- If you're a college student, try doing one of your class projects on the troubled teen industry (if you feel up to it). Again, you don't have to mention you were in a program if you don't want to.
- If you use a publicly available computer, leave articles and good links on the screen when you leave the computer (something that will get people's attention). (example (http://http://teenadvocatesusa.org/CrimesandCorruptionintheTroubledTeenIndustry.html))
- Print out articles and leave them on the bus / metro / doctor's office (anywhere with lots of bored people who have nothing else to read). It's probably best not to openly leaflet in the metro system, but rememeber, you can always get off at the next stop, change trains, go around in circles, and leave from where you came (costing nothing on most metro systems). Just "drop" a few copies of the articles on each train. When getting off the train, say something like "hmm... interesting article" and leave it on the seat. Most likely, somebody within an earshot will definitely (after you leave) pick it up and read. Public bathrooms are also a good place to leave articles. Boring classes, etc...
Think about it: Where do you read random stuff you just find? When you're bored... So think about places you are bored and put stuff there.
Title: Re: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Ursus on September 10, 2007, 02:10:23 PM
Quote from: ""psy""
Well. Here are some things you can do:
- Talk to people about the issue. You don't have to tell them you were in a program, but if the opportunity arises, why not let people know this industry exists. Keep some URLs bookmarked and handy so when they go "you just made that up" you can point them to the source.
- Burn DVDs of movies pertaining to the industry. If you can get source material on your own, just tell me what you're looking for and i'll point you to a DVD image you can burn. Once the DVDs are burned (you can get a stack of 100 for around 20$ usually) put them in paper cd envelopes (or jewel cases if you really want) and tape them to newspapers (Sunday paper is probably best). include links to a few websites (eg: fornits.com isaccorp.org teenadvocatesusa.org etc...)
- If you're a college student, try doing one of your class projects on the troubled teen industry (if you feel up to it). Again, you don't have to mention you were in a program if you don't want to.
- If you use a publicly available computer, leave articles and good links on the screen when you leave the computer (something that will get people's attention). (example (http://http://teenadvocatesusa.org/CrimesandCorruptionintheTroubledTeenIndustry.html))
- Print out articles and leave them on the bus / metro / doctor's office (anywhere with lots of bored people who have nothing else to read). It's probably best not to openly leaflet in the metro system, but rememeber, you can always get off at the next stop, change trains, go around in circles, and leave from where you came (costing nothing on most metro systems). Just "drop" a few copies of the articles on each train. When getting off the train, say something like "hmm... interesting article" and leave it on the seat. Most likely, somebody within an earshot will definitely (after you leave) pick it up and read. Public bathrooms are also a good place to leave articles. Boring classes, etc...
Think about it: Where do you read random stuff you just find? When you're bored... So think about places you are bored and put stuff there.
Great ideas, forgot about the leaving of information in trains, doctor's offices, etc. That was one of the grassroots methods of disseminating anti-Vietnam War info in the 60s...
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: psy on September 10, 2007, 02:23:51 PM
Quote from: ""Froderik""
Thank you for starting this thread, TSW. I share in you skepticism.
An idea: Aside from the positive side-effects of decriminalization, effective medication and a potential dent in alcoholism, the legalization of marijuana (and possibly other illicit substances) would make a statement of incredible gravity. Of course, it would take more than mere legislation to make this happen, but could perhaps be brought about in other ways (ask psy about this)
Right... So the basic idea is to randomly plant seeds all over the place. If everybody who smoked did this, enforcement of prohibition would become untenable.
Plant in the neighbor's yard, plant in front of your house, on your university, in the woods (make them hunt for these patches), in granny's flower pot, plant in the local garden center, replace the seeds in the packets... extra bonus points for creativity.
Now I know some purists are going to yell at me about screwing up their sinsimilla crops with cross-fertilization but the point is rather to force legalization by growing the stuff all over (it grows faster than most crops).
I looked on the net for instructions. Apparantly you need to plant the seeds in April / May about 1/2 inches deep, pointy side up. Optimally you want to soak the seeds in distilled water for about 24 hours prior to planting (don't ask me why). Once the seeds are planted in a bit of topsoil, just add water.
If this was going to be some kind of coordinated effort, the best time to plant would probably be around April 20th of next year. It's probably a somewhat obvious statement, but don't harvest your own bud. The point is simply to very publicly have marijuana growing everywhere.
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Anonymous on September 10, 2007, 02:32:38 PM
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: TheWho on September 10, 2007, 02:58:05 PM
Quote from: ""psy""
Quote from: ""Froderik""
Thank you for starting this thread, TSW. I share in you skepticism.
An idea: Aside from the positive side-effects of decriminalization, effective medication and a potential dent in alcoholism, the legalization of marijuana (and possibly other illicit substances) would make a statement of incredible gravity. Of course, it would take more than mere legislation to make this happen, but could perhaps be brought about in other ways (ask psy about this)
Right... So the basic idea is to randomly plant seeds all over the place. If everybody who smoked did this, enforcement of prohibition would become untenable.
Plant in the neighbor's yard, plant in front of your house, on your university, in the woods (make them hunt for these patches), in granny's flower pot, plant in the local garden center, replace the seeds in the packets... extra bonus points for creativity.
Now I know some purists are going to yell at me about screwing up their sinsimilla crops with cross-fertilization but the point is rather to force legalization by growing the stuff all over (it grows faster than most crops).
I looked on the net for instructions. Apparantly you need to plant the seeds in April / May about 1/2 inches deep. Optimally you want to soak the seeds in distilled water for about 24 hours prior to planting (don't ask me why). Once the seeds are planted in a bit of topsoil, just add water.
If this was going to be some kind of coordinated effort, the best time to plant would probably be around April 20th of next year.
Often farmland that has been out of production for ten years is ideal. River and stream beds. The absolute best place to plant is on land that is being hayed or “open spaceâ€
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Anonymous on September 10, 2007, 03:15:54 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
well Zippety-Do-Dah to you too ::kma::
Title: seedlings?
Post by: Anonymous on September 10, 2007, 03:19:08 PM
PSY: The only problem with that is more and more, there's NO seeds to plant. I think it's called Sensimilla.
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Ursus on September 10, 2007, 03:23:13 PM
Open space... highway dividing tracts!!! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Oh, psy, the soak is to soften the outer shell, making it easier for the shoot to poke through. Some seeds are easier to nick than to soak. But there is such a thing as too long a soak. You're better off foregoing it if you can't keep track of time. Too long a soak means drowned seeds. Heating mat underneath, with seeds planted in small containers, in plastic bags that are left open works well, "I hear"... The plastic bag increases humidity and also helps retain some heat, but when they're closed sometimes too much so...
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Anonymous on September 10, 2007, 03:26:00 PM
Ursus: your smelly little pile is missing??
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Froderik on September 10, 2007, 03:28:09 PM
Hmm... well it is a weed after all, right?
This shouldn't be rocket science.. :rofl:
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: psy on September 10, 2007, 03:28:47 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""psy""
Quote from: ""Froderik""
Thank you for starting this thread, TSW. I share in you skepticism.
An idea: Aside from the positive side-effects of decriminalization, effective medication and a potential dent in alcoholism, the legalization of marijuana (and possibly other illicit substances) would make a statement of incredible gravity. Of course, it would take more than mere legislation to make this happen, but could perhaps be brought about in other ways (ask psy about this)
Right... So the basic idea is to randomly plant seeds all over the place. If everybody who smoked did this, enforcement of prohibition would become untenable.
Plant in the neighbor's yard, plant in front of your house, on your university, in the woods (make them hunt for these patches), in granny's flower pot, plant in the local garden center, replace the seeds in the packets... extra bonus points for creativity.
Now I know some purists are going to yell at me about screwing up their sinsimilla crops with cross-fertilization but the point is rather to force legalization by growing the stuff all over (it grows faster than most crops).
I looked on the net for instructions. Apparantly you need to plant the seeds in April / May about 1/2 inches deep. Optimally you want to soak the seeds in distilled water for about 24 hours prior to planting (don't ask me why). Once the seeds are planted in a bit of topsoil, just add water.
If this was going to be some kind of coordinated effort, the best time to plant would probably be around April 20th of next year.
Often farmland that has been out of production for ten years is ideal. River and stream beds. The absolute best place to plant is on land that is being hayed or “open spaceâ€
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Anonymous on September 10, 2007, 03:33:26 PM
I live in an apartment, next to woods. Everybody throws their seeds in the woods.
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Ursus on September 10, 2007, 03:41:49 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Ursus: your smelly little pile is missing??
Yeah, I got tired of watching the flies and it was just so damn huge after a while... After all, I have to look at every one of my posts; everyone else can easily ignore them... :rofl:
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: psy on September 10, 2007, 03:44:55 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
I live in an apartment, next to woods. Everybody throws their seeds in the woods.
not so sure just chucking them in the woods would work (plant em pointy side up about 1/2 inches deep in good soil + a little water), also, don't plant in the woods directly behind your house.
My advice is to plant in small clusters far apart as well as all over public areas and garden shop.
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Ursus on September 10, 2007, 03:51:21 PM
Quote from: ""psy""
Quote from: ""Guest""
I live in an apartment, next to woods. Everybody throws their seeds in the woods.
not so sure just chucking them in the woods would work (plant em pointy side up about 1/2 inches deep in good soil + a little water), also, don't plant in the woods directly behind your house.
My advice is to plant in small clusters far apart as well as all over public areas and garden shop.
This plant needs more sun than the woods would permit. Half inch deep does not mean half inch of soil on top, but bottom of seed rests at about the half inch mark. A little deep for my taste. A good rule of thumb re. planting seeds in general is 1-1.5 x the size of the seed worth of soil on top.
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Anonymous on September 10, 2007, 04:35:59 PM
yup, it's very tough to get seeds nowadays. 99% of the weed around here (NY) is seedless, so cant get bag seeds. the one weed you can find seeds in the bag with some consitency is mexican brick, which is almost always a pure Sativa. sativas are nearly impossible to grow anywhere north of essentially the mason-dixon (unless it's hybridized), the're tall, lanky, and dont yeild much, plus very very easy to spot.
if we were to do this, we'd need the support of a seed bank in amsterdam, someone big like nirvana or sensi, and we'd need a way to get tonnes of it into the U.S, and it would be have to be a charitible thing on their part because seeds are very, very expensive.
what i reccomend for a project like this, at least in the north, would be an auto-flowering strain. (ruderalis-crossed). they dont require the 18/6-12/12 switch in time period, so they start budding very early, and you could theoretically harvest bits of the plant throughout the summer, before the final harvest. some strains have a very short life-span, they can grow, flower, drop seeds, then grow again in a single summer. they are also very risistant to everything - bugs, pests, mold, drought, humidity, low light, too much light, etc. they are the hardiest of all plants. they can also spread like wildfire, and can potentially get enormous. you can even grow them in places like alaska. check out ruderalis skunk from sensi seeds.
there's also an interesting strain called the "lowryder". it's a cross between williams wonder, northern lights, and an unknown ruderalis. the #2 version also has some santa maria genes. lowryders grow to a max of 15-20 inches, and can yeild up to 2 ounces per plant, and you can have two crops a season. it's amazing, you can have it in your garden, hiding under tomato plants or among some herbs and your neighbors would never notice - who looks for weed around their ankles? the only drawback is that you cannot clone a ruderalis, but who cares? cloning leaves you with shitty deformed stunted plants, and you need chems that could potentially harm you.
to the old or misinformed, yes, pure ruderalis is ditch weed, providing nothing but a headache. it grows all over the place in the mid and north west, and cops dont bother with it cuz it's useless. but if you cross a ruderalis with a good strain, you get the best of both worlds and the worst of neither, with good conditions a ruderalis cross will produce equal quality bud to any indica, sativa, or afghani.
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: TheWho on September 10, 2007, 05:13:32 PM
Great read, thanks. If, you wanted to kick the “Lowriderâ€
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Anonymous on September 10, 2007, 05:15:18 PM
is it me, or are we all a bunch of smokers who survived...? :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin:
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Anonymous on September 10, 2007, 05:17:52 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
is it me, or are we all a bunch of smokers who survived...? :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin:
does anyone use MiracleGro?
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: TheWho on September 10, 2007, 05:21:28 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""
is it me, or are we all a bunch of smokers who survived...? :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin:
does anyone use MiracleGro?
Stay away form that unless you just want to impress the neighbors or are selling it for profit/high yield.
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Ursus on September 10, 2007, 05:29:55 PM
Iguana poop is an excellent additive. Just dig it under the soil/wood chips a bit.
'Course poop is my "thing," ha ha haaa!!
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Froderik on September 10, 2007, 05:36:07 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""
is it me, or are we all a bunch of smokers who survived...? :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin:
does anyone use MiracleGro?
Yes, an old friend / roommate of mine used that stuff on this plant he had growing in our backyard.. it worked real well.
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Anonymous on September 10, 2007, 05:37:02 PM
Quote from: ""psy""
Quote from: ""Guest""
I live in an apartment, next to woods. Everybody throws their seeds in the woods.
not so sure just chucking them in the woods would work (plant em pointy side up about 1/2 inches deep in good soil + a little water), also, don't plant in the woods directly behind your house.
My advice is to plant in small clusters far apart as well as all over public areas and garden shop.
It works to an extent - my back-yard is part of the Pine Barrens in N.J.
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Anonymous on September 10, 2007, 05:38:27 PM
Quote from: ""Ursus""
Iguana poop is an excellent additive. Just dig it under the soil/wood chips a bit.
'Course poop is my "thing," ha ha haaa!!
bat guano
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Froderik on September 10, 2007, 05:39:55 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
my back-yard is part of the Pine Barrens in N.J.
and... does that have something to do with soil quality..?
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: 3xsaSeedling on September 10, 2007, 05:42:01 PM
sounds more like camoflage to me
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Froderik on September 10, 2007, 05:46:17 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Stay away form that unless you just want to impress the neighbors or are selling it for profit/high yield.
If you're referring to the Miracle Gro, I would agree.. that plant 'took off' like crazy.. it began to smell up the whole yard and the yards next to ours... so he harvested it a little early for fear of it getting snatched up by the neighbors..
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Anonymous on September 10, 2007, 05:50:29 PM
I can't believe you guys are missing this one.
Plant it near your favorite wilderness camps.
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Anonymous on September 10, 2007, 05:59:01 PM
powerstout, bluestreak, and masterlow are all lowryder based strains. the only issue, is that they were all put out by a guy who called himself MDanzig, who cranked out seeds out of a small growroom somewhere in the U.S. he just got busted about 2-3 months ago, and his plants, all his work was taken away. you might still find some powerstout or something at a seedbank, but it's unlikely, and the're probobly jacking up the prices since they know they wont be getting any more of those seeds.
just stick the the jointdoctor's lowryder #2. the original i must admit really sucks - it tastes bad and you'll be lucky to get half an ounce. it usually grows only about 10-12" and all in one cola, no branching, but the #2 is greatly improved - my freind just harvested one and it's great!. it branches quite a bit, grows a bit taller, tastes better, is alot more potent, more uniform, and the yield is 2-3x the size of the original. and it still stays very compact. it's an interesting plant - it's the only one in my life that i've seen form buds near the base where light doesnt really even hit it.
and stay the hell away from miracle-gro, unless you're growing for quantity not quality and want borderline-toxic bud. feeding a plant a diet of miraclegro is like feeding a human a diet of pure sugar and amphetamines. if you stop feeding a m-g addicted plant, it'll stop growing. you're also likely to burn the roots, and after a while salt will start to build up and kill the plant.
going completely organic (like guano, blood/bone meal) is OK outdoors but i would warn against it in most cases. it's unsanitary, and the nutrients take a while to be released. you only have to apply once in a while, but the weed never turns out as good. for good weed you need to flush the plants the last 2 weeks - get them on a "starvation diet" of just distilled water and h2o2. this will make the plant use up it's existing, built up reserves of nutes. the bottom leaves may yellow, but thats a good sign. overferted or unflushed weed tastes bad or chemically, smells "too strong", never dries right (or if it does, crumples into powder), is very harsh on the lungs and can potentially give you a headache, and with longterm use, cancer.
if you're going to use organic nutes, go with O.M.R.I-listed LIQUID nutrients. canna, technoflora, bionova, advanced nutrients all make good products. foxfarm is o.K for beginners but is missing some ingredients. as a rule of thumb, if they sell it at a hardware store, dont use it.
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: 3xsaSeedling on September 10, 2007, 06:05:04 PM
Quote from: ""Froderik""
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Stay away form that unless you just want to impress the neighbors or are selling it for profit/high yield.
If you're referring to the Miracle Gro, I would agree.. that plant 'took off' like crazy.. it began to smell up the whole yard and the yards next to ours... so he harvested it a little early for fear of it getting snatched up by the neighbors..
my neighbors had the same issue ::bandit::
Wilderness camps? Oh wait... I get it ::roflmao::
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Anonymous on September 10, 2007, 06:07:39 PM
i forgot to mention that the pics thewho posted are not of his plants - i've seen those pics all over the net. the one on the right is actually a paper/plastic weed plant.
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: 3xsaSeedling on September 10, 2007, 06:18:17 PM
WHO??
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Anonymous on September 10, 2007, 07:52:11 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Stay away form that unless you just want to impress the neighbors or are selling it for profit/high yield.
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Che Gookin on September 10, 2007, 10:39:52 PM
This is at heart a very... comical thread to say it nicely. However, my intent was to present ideas to reach the mainstream of America's conscious. Psy threw up a few good ideas, and Frod made a good point or two.
My idea is very specific and long term. I was thinking about it last night and I came up with the following:
An online newsletter or e-zine designed to raise awareness of programmes. More than just raising awareness though I believe in the merit of providing a message of hope. Almost everyone who comes in contact with a programme is affected to some degree or another. Rather than focus solely on the damage of programmes I'd like to see people willing to discuss their own recovery from the damn programmes.
People need to know that some sort of peace of mind can be gained. I think it would be important for parents, kids, and everyone else to know that life after programmes can get better.
Of course the true face of programmes needs to be exposed loudly and repeatedly in this e-zine. However, I'm thinking more of a inteview style format that isn't so likely to revolt the average reader. A simple clean format providing the maximum exposure and information in the least amount of space.
Also in this e-zine:
Poetry travel classifieds
Literally anything we want to put in it that people are willing to put effort into producing.
discuss.
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: TheWho on September 10, 2007, 11:24:39 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Stay away form that unless you just want to impress the neighbors or are selling it for profit/high yield.
Thewho didt say they were real. I dont think anyone would think they were real. Just right click on the image, then properties, it is from gizmodo/ fake_pot_plants.jpg. Thewho is smart enough not to post an image that would lead back to his hard drive.
It would be cool to have those in the house
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Anonymous on September 11, 2007, 12:26:22 AM
all this talk of bud.. "who's" actually burning tonight.. light it up if ya got it... ::bandit:: :wave: ::deal:: ::crybaby:: ::hatter::
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Anne Bonney on September 11, 2007, 12:29:44 AM
:smokin: ::bandit::
Burnin' out of my little tiny glass waterpipe I got last Key West trip.
8-)
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Che Gookin on September 11, 2007, 12:33:38 AM
In about a month or month and a half.. I'm gonna be sitting on the Beach in Cambodia with a bong the size of a coconut baked out of my gourd. sighs.. good times to be had... lols.
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Anonymous on September 11, 2007, 12:42:32 AM
it's important to take good care of your teeth.. you only get one set...
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Che Gookin on September 11, 2007, 12:49:11 AM
I'll hire a Cambodian girl to floss them for me daily.
Should only set me back about a buck a day.
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Anonymous on September 11, 2007, 12:51:28 AM
and who says globalization is bad...
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Che Gookin on September 11, 2007, 12:52:17 AM
floss.. hahah christ.. I love double entendres.
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Anne Bonney on September 11, 2007, 12:55:01 AM
::roflmao:: ::roflmao::
Title: Mental Health program in schools
Post by: Anonymous on September 11, 2007, 01:01:19 AM
What are your positions regarding putting mental health services in the schools? There is a current push in my state for this, and the advocates are rather powerful. I see this as massive brainwashing. I look foreward to your responses!
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Anonymous on September 11, 2007, 01:02:59 AM
when i get really really really high things like bacon ice cream start sounding like a good idea.
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Anne Bonney on September 11, 2007, 01:04:51 AM
A resounding HELL NO! That's insane. Basically, Big Brother wants to set junior up for Big PHarma.
Deb's got a bunch of links and resources. PM and ask her about them.
Title: Re: Mental Health program in schools
Post by: Che Gookin on September 11, 2007, 01:57:15 AM
Quote from: ""Scared teacher""
What are your positions regarding putting mental health services in the schools? There is a current push in my state for this, and the advocates are rather powerful. I see this as massive brainwashing. I look foreward to your responses!
I guess it depends what scale we are talking about. The massive all encompassing sort of head tweaking that some suggest really does sort of scare me. I do think a case can be made for improving the quality of guidance counseling in high school. My guidance counselor was actually quite good and gave me a lot of help with things that were going on at home.
Other than that mental health should be kept out of schools. If a kid obviously needs some sort of referral then it should be made but to a provider outside of the school to avoid the pressure of teachers to get the kid on kiddie crack.
At the same token I'm a big fan of smaller schools. Charter Schools. And more independent learning opprotunities.
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Anonymous on September 11, 2007, 03:14:38 AM
Kids don't need no education kids don't need no thought control
Title: Re: Mental Health program in schools
Post by: psy on September 11, 2007, 04:05:04 AM
Quote from: ""Scared teacher""
What are your positions regarding putting mental health services in the schools? There is a current push in my state for this, and the advocates are rather powerful. I see this as massive brainwashing. I look foreward to your responses!
Legitimate mental health services such as psychologists / psychiatrists? or new-age quackery disguised as mental health services? The former is ok with me (as long as it's voluntary, as all medical treatment should be); however I'd rather keep unproven / experimental / debunked things like EST (Landmark Forum), LifeSpring, L Ron Hubbard, Dr Phil, and Oprah the fuck out of public schools (however, everybody should be free to do whatever they want on private time).
Lots of people might argue that a psychologist has no place in a school. I disagree. I think they should function like guidance counselors (voluntary) but be able to set up appointments and provide free counseling if a student feels the need.
Title: Re: Mental Health program in schools
Post by: Ursus on September 11, 2007, 07:21:16 AM
Quote from: ""psy""
Quote from: ""Scared teacher""
What are your positions regarding putting mental health services in the schools? There is a current push in my state for this, and the advocates are rather powerful. I see this as massive brainwashing. I look foreward to your responses!
Legitimate mental health services such as psychologists / psychiatrists? or new-age quackery disguised as mental health services? The former is ok with me (as long as it's voluntary, as all medical treatment should be); however I'd rather keep unproven / experimental / debunked things like EST (Landmark Forum), LifeSpring, L Ron Hubbard, Dr Phil, and Oprah the fuck out of public schools (however, everybody should be free to do whatever they want on private time).
Lots of people might argue that a psychologist has no place in a school. I disagree. I think they should function like guidance counselors (voluntary) but be able to set up appointments and provide free counseling if a student feels the need.
My sticking point on this is: what exactly gets put in a kid's record, officially or otherwise? That's why I do tend to lean more towards TSW's contention that this sort of thing should be kept out of the school system. My own experience with the public school system comes from both sides of the parent/kid spectrum. You can be lucky enough to live in a progressive town where the public school system appears to be well-meaning and perhaps almost benign, but what goes on your record travels with you and can be re-interpreted by another school system differently. Like it or not, and benign or not, public school systems are Big Brother and potential misuses of information on your kid need to be evaluated in that light.
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Che Gookin on September 11, 2007, 08:04:57 AM
And to top it off Ursus.. think about it this way..
Look at how well character education treated you?
Now why in the world do we want to intragrate the world of education with the world of pshrinking?
Schools are supposed to be places where people are educated. Not indoctrinated, not medicated, not provided with moral fiber, nor religion, nor are they to be characterized by a bunch of damn shrinks, but yet this seems to be happening almost everyday.
Maybe I'm old fashion but the idea that school should be about reading 'riting and 'rithmatic still seems to ring true for me. Do away with all the other miscellaneous crap and provide the basic education for kids. After that let them determine how their academic career will proceed via elective courses, independent learning, work, sports, drama, music, industrial arts, and so on and so forth.
God.. get the big cock of American society out of the student's ass for a change and you might actually see something happening in the schools other than a sullen mass of pissed off kids shuffling from class to class.
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Anne Bonney on September 11, 2007, 09:56:02 AM
Out. Out damn spot. Out. It has no place in schools. Guidance counselor, ok....as long as it doesn't cross the line into 'therapy'.
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Ursus on September 11, 2007, 09:58:29 AM
Quote from: ""Wandering Waygookin""
And to top it off Ursus.. think about it this way..
Look at how well character education treated you?
::roflmao:: ::roflmao:: ::roflmao:: Oh Man, that's RICH!!! Yeah, fucked me over, threw me out, and when I finally sorta got back on my feet and tried to continue my education, 5-6 years later, they tried to sabotage that as well. Vindictive, evil, lying bastards... Don't get me started, I could go on forever.
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Ursus on September 11, 2007, 10:10:52 AM
Okay, back to serious business. It seems to me, that you're setting yourself up for a potential conflict of interest by having psych services administered by the public school system. Given their historically strapped finances, they are not always going to want to do what is in the best interests of the kid. They will want to do what is in the best interests of the school, which sometimes also means the kid, but sometimes not.
I also think that the situation which the OP on this subject described is quite possibly a move on the part of the school system to reduce costs. Times when the school system has to ordinarily pay for outside therapy, they can now do in-house for less. There are Special Needs kids who have, on their IEP, designated services stipulated for such and such therapy X-times/wk. Sometimes that therapy is not occupational, or speech, or LD oriented, but psych oriented. At the moment, they are paying big bucks for that, cuz it's an "outside provider."
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Anonymous on September 11, 2007, 12:34:52 PM
NO THERAPISTS!!!! i've been through half a dozen shrinks in my life, none of them were of any use and just fucked me up more. each time we switched we thought we were getting a better, less pharmacorrupt, more intelligent person, but each time they ended up worse than the last. even the 1.5g/hour guy on park avenue was corrupt, and this guy is a well-known shrink, went and taught at harvard. they never helped, and were always looking for a pill to give me, or a problem in my childhood to blame my current situation on. i swear i've been on pretty much every drug on the market at some point, because of my mom's gullibility. the guy even gave me xanax, knowing that i had a major drug problem. guess what happened? i went through a month supply in 2 weeks, then i ended up on gradually tapering dose of librium for a year because the withdrawl was too intense. i dont remember that year too well.
but...guidance counselors are a good idea. theres always the kid who flips out in class, or has a shit home life, or gets suicidal after a breakup, etc....and in high school you cant always rely on your freinds for someone mature to talk to. so i think it's important you have some guy willing to talk to any kid at any time about anything, but i think once they start "shrinking" or giving perscriptions, they are crossing the line.
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Deborah on September 11, 2007, 01:59:06 PM
8-26-03
National Association of School Psychologists 4340 East West Highway, Suite 402 Bethesda, MD 20814
Dear People,
I am writing you as a graduate of the University of Texas School Psychology Program and as director of Texans For Safe Education, a citizens group expressly concerned with the ever-increasing role of psychiatry in the schools, especially psychiatric drugs.
I am saddened and appalled at the NASP position opposing passage of the Child Medication Safety Act (S1390), now under consideration in the U.S. Senate. How can you possibly be opposed to an affirmation of what is already the clear intent of federal law, which is that children may not be excluded from school because a parent disagrees with a treatment recommendation for their child.
Here is what you say: "While NASP asserts that it is never right to coerce a student or family into using medications (See NASP Fact Sheet on Diagnosis and Treatment of Attention Disorders: Roles for School Personnel), NASP shares the concern with our allied mental health organizations that such policies will be implemented conservatively, creating a "gag rule" on personnel and creating a chilling effect on the identification of students with mental health needs. While there is no data that this is truly a pervasive problem, there is hard data on the underidentification of students with untreated mental health needs. Further, this language singles out certain medications and perpetuates the stigma of mental health issues."
You say that it is never right to coerce a parent into drugging a child, and then you refuse to stand for that truth, justifying your cowardice and implicitly defending the right of the state to coerce parents. Your argument about a gag rule is completely misleading. The truth is that school employees will have absolutely no stops on the need and value to communicate with parents about their child's expressions of learning and behavior. In Texas, we just passed House Bill 1406 into law, which goes way further than the Child Medication Safety Act. Not only does it outlaw exclusion of a child because of a parent's refusal to consent to a psychiatric drug or evaluation, it also makes it unlawful for school employees to even recommend a drug or suggest a diagnosis.
In order to make this point crystal clear, we included in the new law (now in effect), the following two provisions, stating that the aforementioned prohibitions do not:
"prevent an appropriate referral under the child find system required under 20 U.S.C. Section 1412, as amended; or prohibit a school employee from discussing any aspect of a child's behavior or academic progress with the child's parent or another school district employee."
Are you not aware that there are many states around the nation who are pursuing and passing this type of legislation?
Perhaps even more astounding is your statement that there is no evidence that there is a problem, and that psychiatry is underutilized in the schools. Do you not know that there are about 8,000,000 school age children in the United States on psychiatric drugs today? That is about 15% of the children! And do you not know that none of the diagnoses for which these children are drugged has been validated by science as a real disease with an objective test by which a doctor can make a real differential diagnosis?
I wonder, too, if NASP will acknowledge the fact that it is not uncommon today for school employees to threaten parents who resist pressure to have their children labeled with psychiatric disease names and receive psychotropic drugs. These parents are being threatened with accusations of medical neglect and a call to Child Protective Services for an investigation. Are you not aware of this horrible draconian practice? Testimony in the last Texas legislative session on this issue led to passage of another new law, House Bill 320, which amends to family code to clarify that "consent to the administration of a psychotropic drug to the child, or to consent to any other psychiatric or psychological treatment of the child, does not by itself constitute neglect of the child." You might also be interested to know that new law also revises the education code to state that "An employee of a school district may not use or threaten to use the refusal of a parent, guardian, or managing or possessory conservator of a child to administer or consent to the administration of a psychotropic drug to the child, or to consent to any other psychiatric or psychological testing or treatment of the child."
In short, I am ashamed that my profession is attempting to stop a nationwide effort to defend the rights of parents to make treatment decisions for their children without pressure or coercion from the schools. As to your final statement about this law contributing to the stigma of mental illness, I am appalled at your blatant kowtowing to the psychiatric practice of labeling and drugging children, and guilt-tripping parents. The fact is that parents who want to protect their children form labeling and drugs are being responsible, and it is our profession that is in disgrace when we refuse to be advocates for parental choice and for handling children without drugging them. I urge you to change your position on the Child Medication Safety Act, and support this little step defending parents against coercion.
Sincerely, John Breeding, PhD
Addendum
Please read a letter describing the flaws in the scientific evidence that is used to support the belief that ADHD is a neurochemical disorder that is present from birth and that has nothing to do with inadequate nurturance during childhood, difficult family environments or oppressive and inhumane educational and community environments. It also describes the harm that is done by these beliefs and the treatment approaches based on them.
The letter, which is signed by 12 members of ICSPP who are also members of the American Psychological Association, is a reply to a letter of March 17, 2002 which was sent by Dr. Alice Rubenstein to Dr. Albert Galves, a member of The International Center for the Study of Psychiatry and Psychology (ICSPP.) This letter is posted at DEBUNKING THE SCIENCE BEHIND ADHD AS A "BRAIN DISORDER" (www.academyanalyticarts.org/galveswalker.html (http://www.academyanalyticarts.org/galveswalker.html)) and is located in the Topical Issues section.
Dr. Rubenstein is the Director of The Brochure Project, a joint effort of Division 29 (Psychotherapy) of the APA and Celltech Pharmaceuticals to publish and distribute brochures on Attention Deficit-Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD).
In a letter of February 16, 2002, Dr. Galves had expressed concerns about the following three statements that appear in the brochures:
"ADD/ADHD is generally considered a neuro-chemical disorder."
"Most people with ADD/ADHD are born with the disorder, though it may not be recognized until adulthood."
"ADHD is not caused by poor parenting, a difficult family environment, poor teaching or inadequate nutrition."
In her reply, Dr. Rubenstein included information and supporting references provided to her by Drs. Robert Resnick and Kallman Heller of Division 29.
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Deborah on September 11, 2007, 02:11:19 PM
Texas State Board of Education Resolution November 3, 2000
WHEREAS, The mission of the public education system of this state is to ensure that all Texas children have access to a quality education that enables them to achieve their potential and fully participate now and in the future in the social, economic, and educational opportunities of our state and nation; and
WHEREAS, The State Board of Education envisions in its long-range plan for public education a system of public education that is based on the fundamental principles that all students can learn, and all educators can develop the knowledge and expertise to implement programs that ensure all students can learn; and
WHEREAS, the Texas State Board of Education dedicates itself to improving the academic achievement of all students; and
WHEREAS, the responsibility of school personnel is to ensure student achievement; and
WHEREAS, only medical personnel can recommend the use of prescribed medication; and
WHEREAS, a Consensus Development Panel conducted in November 1998 by the National Institutes of Health (NIH) to resolve controversies surrounding Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD) reported that: "there is no valid independent test for ADHD...further research is necessary to firmly establish ADHD as a brain disorder...additional efforts to validate the disorder are needed"; and
WHEREAS, the NIH Consensus Development Panel reported that stimulant drugs such as methylphenidate (Ritalin) result in "little improvement in academic or social skills," and
WHEREAS, there are documented incidences of highly negative consequences in which psychiatric prescription drugs have been utilized for what are essentially problems of discipline which may be related to lack of academic success; and
WHEREAS, up to one million school-age children in Texas are taking psychiatric drugs, and
WHEREAS, the Texas State Board of Education recognizes that there is much concern regarding the issue of diagnosis and medication and their impact on student achievement; and
WHEREAS, in its long-range plan for public education, the State Board of Education challenges students, parents and families, educators, and community leaders to participate actively in making their schools safe learning environments; and
WHEREAS, this plan further states that ensuring safety for Texas public education will take nothing short of a coordinated effort by the state and each community to keep violence, prevent the abuse of prescription and illicit drugs, and disruptive behavior out of schools; now, therefore, be it
RESOLVED, That the State Board of Education does hereby urge all local school district boards of trustees and superintendents to become aware of and concerned about the use of psychotropic drugs in their schools, and to determine the extent to which such drugs are in use in their schools, and the current processes by which such drugs are being prescribed for the students; and be it further
RESOLVED, That the State Board of Education encourage local boards and superintendents to require local school personnel to use proven academic and/or management solutions to resolve behavior, attention, and learning difficulties. The State Board of Education suggests that programs such as tutoring, vision testing, phonics, nutritional guidance, medical examinations, allergy testing, standard disciplinary procedures, and other remedies known to be effective and harmless, be recommended to parents as their options; and be it further
RESOLVED, That the State Board of Education urge local school personnel to respect the exclusive authority of physicians to make psychiatric diagnoses of behavioral problems, recommend psychiatric screening for specific behavioral problems, and suggest the use of psychiatric medication for a student; and be it further
RESOLVED, That the State Board of Education recommend that each local school district implement a special policy with regard to storing and distribution of psychoactive drugs; and be it further
RESOLVED, That the State Board of Education urges local school boards to adopt and implement a policy that requires prescription medications dispensed on school property be administered by a medical practitioner licensed by the state to dispense medication; and be it further
RESOLVED, That the State Board of Education encourages greater communication and education among parents, educators, and medical professionals about the effects of psychotropic drugs on student achievement and our ability to provide a safe and civil learning environment.
WITNESS our signatures this third day of November, two thousand, in Austin, Texas.
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Antigen on September 11, 2007, 05:19:37 PM
Great thread, everybody! This is my third attempt to catch up with this thread. Thanks, Gook, for starting it.
Quote from: ""Wandering Waygookin""
Time and persistence will help reduce this ignorance in our society. Thoughts ideas and suggestions are being called for to address this matter. I've already started on a writing project of my own, put on hold due to my current vacation, but it will be finished.
IDEas biatches..
First off, stop talking in the passive sense. I'm only half kidding.
Day to day encounters like Guest's chance encounter on the bus are pretty cool. Today, I get the opportunity to decline to give consent for my 10yo to participate in DARE. Maybe they'll ask me why. That'd be cool. I really don't mind telling them. Every time I see a kid pull off an impressive stunt on his skate board I say something nice. Skating, after all, is not a crime!
And I wouldn't discount legalization, particularly mj legalization, as valid, possibly vital aspect to winning the culture war. For one thing, almost the only people left clinging to refer madness are pretty much the Semblers and their close affiliates. These have come to be known as the "extra chromosome" Republicans. War on MJ has become somewhat of an emblem of their love of arbitrary, capricious and often cruel authority from the right.
The psyche screening and pill pushers represent the Dempublican counterpart and we should just as constantly and strenuously challenge and investigate them.
Medicalization ~= criminalizsation Not a nickle's worth of difference.
I think the drug war and the troubled parent industry are symptoms of the same problem. And it's no big shocker to me that people like Lichfield and Sembler and their ilk are carrying out Manifest Destiny on the international political stage and Stalinist block monitoring in our towns and schools. What else would you expect from these turkeys?
Quote
However, my intent was to present ideas to reach the mainstream of America's conscious. Psy threw up a few good ideas, and Frod made a good point or two.
My idea is very specific and long term. I was thinking about it last night and I came up with the following:
An online newsletter or e-zine designed to raise awareness of programmes. More than just raising awareness though I believe in the merit of providing a message of hope. Almost everyone who comes in contact with a programme is affected to some degree or another. Rather than focus solely on the damage of programmes I'd like to see people willing to discuss their own recovery from the damn programmes.
People need to know that some sort of peace of mind can be gained. I think it would be important for parents, kids, and everyone else to know that life after programmes can get better.
Of course the true face of programmes needs to be exposed loudly and repeatedly in this e-zine. However, I'm thinking more of a inteview style format that isn't so likely to revolt the average reader. A simple clean format providing the maximum exposure and information in the least amount of space.
Also in this e-zine:
Poetry travel classifieds
Literally anything we want to put in it that people are willing to put effort into producing.
discuss.
That's about exactly what I'm thinking. Art is probably one of the best means we have to effect peaceful change. And we should all encourage chatter and thoughtful discussion about art of any kind that carries a related theme. In fact I bet if we put together an art and media review carrying purchase links we could sell a lot of good content, get people thinking and demonstrate that our weird little shared history is coming close enough to mainstream interest as to be commercially tenable.
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Anonymous on September 11, 2007, 07:10:37 PM
I thinik, at this point, if you collected everyone story that you could fill an encylopedia of horrible program stories.
Title: Re: Mental Health program in schools
Post by: TheWho on September 11, 2007, 08:17:27 PM
Quote from: ""Scared teacher""
What are your positions regarding putting mental health services in the schools? There is a current push in my state for this, and the advocates are rather powerful. I see this as massive brainwashing. I look foreward to your responses!
We really need to be pushing this the other way. If we start creating positions for mental health services within the schools I guarantee the school will have a dispensary window installed within a year or 2 and every kids will be labeled and medicated, because time is money and it is too costly to spend time talking to all these kids. This is why (or one of the reasons) Charter schools are being created to cut all the wasted time, sex education, D.A.R.E crap etc.
What the schools need are a few people with Bachelors degrees in social studies and/or psychology and the ability to relate to adolescents, the ability to listen, honesty, an open mind, and a sense of humor. (Guidance counselors) Those who can keep it simple and get to know the kids on a personal level so you can raise the flag if a problem seems to be surfacing and try to get the parents involved, try to advocate/educate/communicate as best you can and hand the information off to them.
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: TheWho on September 11, 2007, 08:51:34 PM
Data Removed by request, there was an error.
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Che Gookin on September 11, 2007, 09:10:19 PM
Who... are you feeling ok?
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Anne Bonney on September 11, 2007, 09:23:45 PM
:o
What was that?
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Anonymous on September 11, 2007, 10:45:05 PM
Title: Re: Mental Health program in schools
Post by: Anonymous on September 11, 2007, 11:41:09 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""Scared teacher""
What are your positions regarding putting mental health services in the schools? There is a current push in my state for this, and the advocates are rather powerful. I see this as massive brainwashing. I look foreward to your responses!
We really need to be pushing this the other way. If we start creating positions for mental health services within the schools I guarantee the school will have a dispensary window installed within a year or 2 and every kids will be labeled and medicated, because time is money and it is too costly to spend time talking to all these kids. This is why (or one of the reasons) Charter schools are being created to cut all the wasted time, sex education, D.A.R.E crap etc.
What the schools need are a few people with Bachelors degrees in social studies and/or psychology and the ability to relate to adolescents, the ability to listen, honesty, an open mind, and a sense of humor. (Guidance counselors) Those who can keep it simple and get to know the kids on a personal level so you can raise the flag if a problem seems to be surfacing and try to get the parents involved, try to advocate/educate/communicate as best you can and hand the information off to them.
You swine. You vulgar little maggot. You worthless bag of filth. As we say in Texas, you couldn't pour water out of a boot with instructions printed on the heel. You are a canker, an open wound. I would rather kiss a lawyer than be seen with you. You took your last vacation in the Islets of Langerhans.
You're a putrescent mass, a walking vomit. You are a spineless little worm deserving nothing but the profoundest contempt. You are a jerk, a cad, a weasel. Your life is a monument to stupidity. You are a stench, a revulsion, a big suck on a sour lemon.
You are a bleating foal, a curdled staggering mutant dwarf smeared richly with the effluvia and offal accompanying your alleged birth into a hostile world. You are an insensate, blinking calf, meaningful to nobody, abandoned by the puke-drooling, giggling beasts who sired you and then died of shame in recognition of what they had done. They were a bit late.
I will never get over the embarrassment of belonging to the same species as you. You are a monster, an ogre, a malformity. I barf at the very thought of you. You have all the appeal of a paper cut. Lepers avoid you. You are vile, worthless, less than nothing. You are a weed, a fungus, the dregs of this earth. And did I mention that you smell?
Try to edit your responses of unnecessary material before attempting to impress us with your insight. The evidence that you are a nincompoop will still be available to readers, but they will be able to access it ever so much more rapidly.
You snail-skulled little rabbit. Would that a hawk pick you up, drive its beak into your brain, and upon finding it rancid set you loose to fly briefly before spattering the ocean rocks with the frothy pink shame of your ignoble blood. May you choke on the queasy, convulsing nausea of your own trite, foolish beliefs.
You are weary, stale, flat and unprofitable. You are grimy, squalid, nasty and profane. You are foul and disgusting. You're a fool, an ignoramus. Monkeys look down on you. Even sheep won't have sex with you. You are unreservedly pathetic, starved for attention, and lost in a land that reality forgot. You are not ANSI compliant. You have a couple of address lines shorted together. You should be promoted to Engineering Manager.
And what meaning do you expect your delusionally self-important statements of unknowing, inexperienced opinion to have with us? What fantasy do you hold that you would believe that your tiny-fisted tantrums would have more weight than that of a leprous desert rat, spinning rabidly in a circle, waiting for the bite of the snake?
You are a waste of flesh. You have no rhythm. You are ridiculous and obnoxious. You are the moral equivalent of a leech. You are a living emptiness, a meaningless void. You are sour and senile. You are a loathsome disease, a puerile slack-jawed drooling meatslapper. You make Quakers shout and strike Pentecostals silent.
Your mother had to tie a pork chop around your neck just to get your dog to play with you. You think P.D.Q. Bach is the greatest composer who ever lived. You prefer L. Ron Hubbard to Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle. Hee-Haw is too deep for you. You would watch test patterns all day if the other inmates would let you.
On a good day you're a half-wit. You remind me of drool. You are deficient in all that lends character. You have the personality of wallpaper. You are dank and filthy. You are asinine and benighted. You are the source of all unpleasantness. You spread misery and sorrow wherever you go.
You smarmy lagerlout git. You bloody woofter sod. Bugger off, pillock. You grotty wanking oik artless base-court apple-john. You clouted boggish foot-licking half-twit. You dankish clack-dish plonker. You gormless crook-pated tosser. You bloody churlish boil-brained clotpole ponce. You craven dewberry pisshead cockup pratting naff. You cockered bum-bailey poofter. You gob-kissing gleeking flap-mouthed coxcomb. You dread-bolted fobbing beef-witted clapper-clawed flirt-gill.
You are so clueless that if we stripped you naked, soaked you in clue musk, and dropped you into a field full of horny clues, You still would not have a clue.
You are a fiend and a coward, and you have bad breath. You are degenerate, noxious and depraved. I feel debased just for knowing you exist. I despise everything about you, and I wish you would go away.
I cannot believe how incredibly stupid you are. I mean rock-hard stupid. Dehydrated-rock-hard stupid. Stupid so stupid that it goes way beyond the stupid we know into a whole different dimension of stupid. You are trans-stupid stupid. Meta-stupid. Stupid collapsed on itself so far that even the neutrons have collapsed. Stupid gotten so dense that no intellect can escape. Singularity stupid. Blazing hot mid-day sun on Mercury stupid. You emit more stupid in one second than our entire galaxy emits in a year. Quasar stupid. Your writing has to be a troll. Nothing in our universe can really be this stupid. Perhaps this is some primordial fragment from the original big bang of stupid. Some pure essence of a stupid so uncontaminated by anything else as to be beyond the laws of physics that we know. I'm sorry. I can't go on. This is an epiphany of stupid for me. After this, you may not hear from me again for a while. I don't have enough strength left to deride your ignorant questions and half baked comments about unimportant trivia, or any of the rest of this drivel. Duh.
The only thing worse than your logic is your manners. I have snipped away most of your of what you wrote, because, well... it didn't really say anything. Your attempt at constructing a creative flame was pitiful. I mean, really, stringing together a bunch of insults among a load of babbling was hardly effective... Maybe later in life, after you have learned to read, write, spell, and count, you will have more success. True, these are rudimentary skills that many of us "normal" people take for granted that everyone has an easy time of mastering. But we sometimes forget that there are "challenged" persons in this world who find these things more difficult. If I had known, that this was your case then I would have never read your post. It just wouldn't have been "right". Sort of like parking in a handicap space. I wish you the best of luck in the emotional, and social struggles that seem to be placing such a demand on you.
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Anonymous on September 12, 2007, 12:30:08 AM
The really poignant thing about that is that, oddly, it's all fucking true. Word for word.
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: TheWho on September 12, 2007, 07:46:01 AM
Thanks guest, great rant!! I thought that was great the first time I read it too and passed it along to my favorite Bush supporters…
Here is the link:
http://http://sirgomer.com/
So I guess you made yourself clear that you are for Shrinks in the public school system and medicating our kids. I just have a tough time agreeing with you on this one. Medication is appropriate in many situations and I always believe there should be a defined or a target end point on when that child can come off the meds (for depression, bi polar etc). But this should be handled outside the school system, IMO. A well qualified guidance counselor can serve as a good conduit between home and school in these situations. The parents should work with a separate local service for this and keep the government out of it as much as possible.
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Anonymous on September 12, 2007, 10:22:27 AM
:o STUPID ::roflmao::
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Froderik on September 12, 2007, 10:33:16 AM
Quote from: ""Scarlett Chiclet""
And I wouldn't discount legalization, particularly mj legalization, as valid, possibly vital aspect to winning the culture war. For one thing, almost the only people left clinging to reefer madness are pretty much the Semblers and their close affiliates. These have come to be known as the "extra chromosome" Republicans. War on MJ has become somewhat of an emblem of their love of arbitrary, capricious and often cruel authority from the right.
The psyche screening and pill pushers represent the Dempublican counterpart and we should just as constantly and strenuously challenge and investigate them.
One could always argue that "they" will always find something to "treat," but legalization would be a heavy statement and a major battle won..
I want to say that your second paragraph is almost quoteworthy...people seem to get played by the "good cops" all too easily sometimes.
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: TheWho on September 12, 2007, 10:54:05 AM
To WHO, Teachers in Britain are not much concerned with cannabis anymore. It was down graded to a class C drug, which is the lowest, a couple of years ago. Adults who get caught smoking just get it confiscated or receive a warning. Kids may get taken to the station for a reprimand, unless they continue to get caught then they may be referred to the “Youth Offending Team to arrange a rehabilitation programme to prevent reoffending.â€
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Anne Bonney on September 12, 2007, 11:07:19 AM
Quote from: ""Froderik""
Quote from: ""Scarlett Chiclet""
And I wouldn't discount legalization, particularly mj legalization, as valid, possibly vital aspect to winning the culture war. For one thing, almost the only people left clinging to reefer madness are pretty much the Semblers and their close affiliates. These have come to be known as the "extra chromosome" Republicans. War on MJ has become somewhat of an emblem of their love of arbitrary, capricious and often cruel authority from the right.
The psyche screening and pill pushers represent the Dempublican counterpart and we should just as constantly and strenuously challenge and investigate them.
One could always argue that "they" will always find something to "treat," but legalization would be a heavy statement and a major battle won..
I want to say that your second paragraph is almost quoteworthy...people seem to get played by the "good cops" all too easily sometimes.
Speaking of asshole cops...
Title: baabaabaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
Post by: 3xsaSeedling on September 12, 2007, 01:06:29 PM
Quote from: ""Froderik""
One could always argue that "they" will always find something to "treat," but legalization would be a heavy statement and a major battle won...
Sadly, neither issue will be resolved in our lifetimes :(
In this case, there will always be parents who got more than they bargained for, and want 'the answer' to their 'problems' given to them.
That's not to say there is no effort or hard work contributed but it's almost a teenage mentality: Handing out the right answers (to life, ya know, like just for showing up!).
I was at the doctor one day complaining about aches and numbness because of my bed. 'Any suggestions, doc. "What? Like a pill will fix it?!! Go buy a new bed."
Sadly, that's the mentality I speak of. You put medical access into schools like that, YOU'RE PUTTING MEDICAL ACCESS INTO SCHOOLS LIKE THAT. Read on..
My son gave me permission to post about him, so...here goes: he was diagnosed w/ADD initially (@ age5). On the 2nd day of school, he waited @ the foot of the bus steps and punched some kid in the nose -almost broke his nose - because the kid had been teasing him for 2 days. I was asked not to bring him back to school until he had been evaluated (translation: we will now medicate him for the next decade or so... okay?) baabaabaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
In short, he and I spent years together being buffetted about by the 'winds' of educational rules and by choice - I conned me w/what I wanted to hear: 'He has X and Y. If we give him Z, it will fix him." We started @ A. baabaabaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa Shame on me. For years we kept him medicated and in Special Ed in the name of treatment. Now I have a young adult with no training, that I still don't have 'directions' for! There's no more drugs now. And he's 24. Now we 'paddle' together
As long as there are parents like me who looked to have a 'magic fix' or 'treatment', there will be those who feed off it.
Title: Re: baabaabaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
Post by: Antigen on September 12, 2007, 02:02:58 PM
Quote from: ""3xsaSeedling""
As long as there are parents like me who looked to have a 'magic fix' or 'treatment', there will be those who feed off it.
I'm so sorry to hear that. But look on the bright side. What passes for 'training' in the mainstream these days is not really much to be desired.
And that really is emblemic of our cultural dilemma. Since the advent of the industrial revolution, we have delegated to government and business more and more of what used to be the exclusive role of families and communities. So here we are, 5 generations into this experiment.
In short, we have become domesticated, 'human resources' and 'consumers'. This is essentially the same dilemma faced by the founding fathers of this country wrt the slave economy.
My first big tip off was when I dropped my oldest daughter off at day care and the nice people there advised me to pretend I wasn't just as upset as she was over leaving her alone among strangers.
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: TheWho on September 12, 2007, 03:18:13 PM
Dam school systems, at every teacher conference I was told my daughter was too argumentative. “She disagrees with me constantly and asks too many questions in classâ€
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Anonymous on September 12, 2007, 03:30:03 PM
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""
Quote from: ""Froderik""
Quote from: ""Scarlett Chiclet""
And I wouldn't discount legalization, particularly mj legalization, as valid, possibly vital aspect to winning the culture war. For one thing, almost the only people left clinging to reefer madness are pretty much the Semblers and their close affiliates. These have come to be known as the "extra chromosome" Republicans. War on MJ has become somewhat of an emblem of their love of arbitrary, capricious and often cruel authority from the right.
The psyche screening and pill pushers represent the Dempublican counterpart and we should just as constantly and strenuously challenge and investigate them.
One could always argue that "they" will always find something to "treat," but legalization would be a heavy statement and a major battle won..
I want to say that your second paragraph is almost quoteworthy...people seem to get played by the "good cops" all too easily sometimes.
Speaking of asshole cops...
Asshole pigs ! :x Lucky he had that camera... :rofl:
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Anonymous on September 12, 2007, 03:59:12 PM
It would be good to see a movie on the history of the industry and available for free on Google video would help a lot because so far the movies ive seen are for profit, and not bashing that, but the audience that matters to stop this which is parents searching for placement aren't going to pay money and wait most likely but might watch a online one.
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: 3xsaSeedling on September 12, 2007, 05:09:46 PM
Anne Bonney wrote
Quote
Speaking of asshole cops...
That guy's dash-video is on the news and that cop's in serious trouble ::rocker:: ::seg::
Title: Re: baabaabaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
Post by: Anonymous on September 12, 2007, 05:27:37 PM
Quote from: ""3xsaSeedling""
My son gave me permission to post about him, so...here goes: he was diagnosed w/ADD initially (@ age5).
Anyone who would diagnose a 5 year old with ADD should have his or her license revoked.
Quote
On the 2nd day of school, he waited @ the foot of the bus steps and punched some kid in the nose -almost broke his nose - because the kid had been teasing him for 2 days.
That should've solved the issue right there. Bully gets hurt, bully learns not to do that anymore, and your kid gets told never to throw the first punch. Both of them learn an important lesson and move on.
Quote
I was asked not to bring him back to school until he had been evaluated (translation: we will now medicate him for the next decade or so... okay?)
One of my kids had a moronic biatch of a teacher in 1st grade, who decided he must be ADD/ADHD and asked us to have him evaluated. I asked to see her therapeutic credentials that qualified her to suggest a diagnosis, but of course she had no credentials. We had him evaluated by a pro, who said basically let's wait a few years and see how he's doing when he's older. That was that. Too bad if this teacher was 'inconvenieced' by having a bright, energetic little boy in her class. My attitude was hey, if you can't deal with little kids, maybe you're in the wrong profession.
Quote
In short, he and I spent years together being buffetted about by the 'winds' of educational rules and by choice - I conned me w/what I wanted to hear: 'He has X and Y. If we give him Z, it will fix him." We started @ A. baabaabaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa Shame on me. For years we kept him medicated and in Special Ed in the name of treatment. Now I have a young adult with no training, that I still don't have 'directions' for! There's no more drugs now. And he's 24. Now we 'paddle' together
That's a sad story that didn't have to turn out that way. More parents should raise hell with lazy, uncaring school officials. Most districts have more than one elementary school, or more than one teacher for each grade. And there are charter schools. For some people, home schooling is an option. Parents should never accept this kind of derogatory labeling of their child, or school officials' demands to keep a child on drugs.
Quote
As long as there are parents like me who looked to have a 'magic fix' or 'treatment', there will be those who feed off it.
Sad, but true. Too many parents are brainwashed by the media, by Phoolish TV "doctors," by pop culture fads like 'mental illness is the new normal', by incompetent and poorly funded school officials and by Big Pharma's "War For Drugs."
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: psy on September 12, 2007, 06:25:27 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
Dam school systems, at every teacher conference I was told my daughter was too argumentative. “She disagrees with me constantly and asks too many questions in classâ€
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Anonymous on September 12, 2007, 06:51:31 PM
Any of these Little Johnnys that are still around will get found out and either drugged, shipped off to programs, or both.
In another generation, there won't even be any more Little Johnnys, since kids will be so well controlled from birth that they won't even be able to think of such clever comebacks.
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Antigen on September 12, 2007, 07:56:01 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Any of these Little Johnnys that are still around will get found out and either drugged, shipped off to programs, or both.
In another generation, there won't even be any more Little Johnnys, since kids will be so well controlled from birth that they won't even be able to think of such clever comebacks.
I disagree. I think things are moving in the other direction, actually. Kids ta day are more empowered to get their information from diverse sources. And they're fed a steady diet of diversity via the net and their net affected friends and idols. So they're more used to sorting it all out and drawing sensible conclusions.
Most things in this universe do not traverse a linear path. Culture especially; it adapts as well as water to new obstacles and simply flows around them according to certain predictable, though complex, hard rules (plus a whole lot of uncertain rules.... Terrance McKenna's "blind spot")
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Anonymous on September 12, 2007, 08:53:09 PM
Quote from: ""Scarlett Chiclet""
Most things in this universe do not traverse a linear path. Culture especially; it adapts as well as water to new obstacles and simply flows around them according to certain predictable, though complex, hard rules (plus a whole lot of uncertain rules.... Terrance McKenna's "blind spot")
it's been asked, which mushroom blooms at the end up history? the mushroom of oppenheimer & teller, or the mushroom of wasson & mckenna?
Title: Re: baabaabaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
Post by: Froderik on September 12, 2007, 09:53:44 PM
Quote from: ""Scarlett Chiclet""
My first big tip off was when I dropped my oldest daughter off at day care and the nice people there advised me to pretend I wasn't just as upset as she was over leaving her alone among strangers.
This troubled me a little too. I remember that well, I was a stay at home dad for a while. Fuck you for laughing, you asshole, you know who you are. ((LOL)) No seriously, fuck you. Anyway, yeah, that didn't set too well with me either, and I made sure to at least hug my daughter before leaving. Other times I'd kinda ignore them and sit with her at her desk until they said time to go. Fortunately my youngest was ok with that.
It may seem like we're making a mountain out of molehill here, but that sort of proposed outright denial of reality says something about the school system...
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Froderik on September 12, 2007, 09:56:57 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Asshole pigs ! :x Lucky he had that camera... :rofl:
I watched about half of that fucking thing before getting annoyed and stopping. Part of it was that damned ticking going on the whole time. Anyway, the song "Cop Killer" was written for officers like that one!
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Froderik on September 12, 2007, 10:00:09 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
It would be good to see a movie on the history of the industry and available for free on Google video would help a lot because so far the movies ive seen are for profit, and not bashing that, but the audience that matters to stop this which is parents searching for placement aren't going to pay money and wait most likely but might watch a online one.
Good point...
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: 3xsaSeedling on September 12, 2007, 10:19:00 PM
Scarlet-Fr0derik: I was the family taxi when my stepdaughter took my granddaughter to preschool. I'm not sure which of the two of them cried harder. Broke my heart to watch. And their bond grew stronger from that. Mine had the opportunity to also w/her knowing I would never 'not pick her up' ::kiss:: ( like anyone would ever have left/forgotten her anywhere ) How different her childhood was...
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Oz girl on September 13, 2007, 05:43:15 AM
At the risk of sounding like an ogre here I have no problem with at times repressing your emotions in front of small children. A quick hug and reassurance that the kid will have a good day i would think can instill confidence in a small child starting school. id be saving any tears for later. To me it is no different to the mother who kisses the crying child and cheerfully says "all better now". It is reassurance that life goes on and that dwelling on the negatives means you miss out on all the fun stuff. :wink:
As to the idea that schools have the right, qualification or responsibility to diagnose or recommend medication for JR. How seriously fuked up!!!!
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Froderik on September 13, 2007, 08:47:51 AM
Quote from: ""Oz girl""
At the risk of sounding like an ogre here I have no problem with at times repressing your emotions in front of small children. A quick hug and reassurance that the kid will have a good day i would think can instill confidence in a small child starting school. id be saving any tears for later. To me it is no different to the mother who kisses the crying child and cheerfully says "all better now". It is reassurance that life goes on and that dwelling on the negatives means you miss out on all the fun stuff. :wink:
Try telling that to an "emo."
Anyway, what you described is considered the best case scenario, but I don't know.. When my oldest was bawling her head off those first couple of days at pre-school, I found it difficult to just walk out on her. I understand the rationale that sticking around too long will "only make it worse," but I'm not so sure I agree with their *ahem* tough love approach..
Some of these teachers could at least consider 'stopping the clock' in consideration of the kids feelings. Class just isn't that important. If I give 5-10 minutes of love and reassurance and she's still upset, oh well, at least I tried, and at least she'll know that I cared enough not to just walk out on her... Baby steps, you know? And sure, it depends too on whether the kid is genuinely upset or just whining...
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Anonymous on September 13, 2007, 10:01:44 AM
well i wouldnt see it as a tough love approach. To me a tough love approach would be to tell the kid to stop crying. But remaining cheery, reminding the kid that you'll be back to get them at ex time and giving the impression that you assume they wil have a great time is not an unhealthy approach. obviously if they are still crying everytime months later then this is a sign of something bigger because school is obviously a less than happy experience for them.
Oz Girl
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Anonymous on September 13, 2007, 10:42:21 AM
in preschool i cried everday for a week, for the first couple of days. my mom just dropped me off and didnt say anything. for the first two weeks, i just sat alone by the tea set. i just sat there. if the teachers tried to get me to participate, i'd start crying. i managed to muster enough strength to get up and play after two weeks, but it wasnt till halloween that i made freinds. my mom was 3 hours late so i ended up sitting around after school with one other kid. he came up to me, and (to the best of my memory) he was like "hi, my mommy is late, is your mommy always late too?", and i made freinds.
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Froderik on September 13, 2007, 10:48:00 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
well i wouldnt see it as a tough love approach. To me a tough love approach would be to tell the kid to stop crying. But remaining cheery, reminding the kid that you'll be back to get them at ex time and giving the impression that you assume they wil have a great time is not an unhealthy approach.
I was using the phrase somewhat loosely.
When my parents dropped me off at Straight, they didn't tell me to stop crying or anything, they just left...
Sorry, but I don't see all that much of a difference...
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: hanzomon4 on September 13, 2007, 11:07:03 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
my mom was 3 hours late so i ended up sitting around after school with one other kid. he came up to me, and (to the best of my memory) he was like "hi, my mommy is late, is your mommy always late too?", and i made freinds.
Ahh, If life stayed that simple.......
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Oz girl on September 13, 2007, 05:31:24 PM
Quote from: ""Froderik""
Quote from: ""Guest""
well i wouldnt see it as a tough love approach. To me a tough love approach would be to tell the kid to stop crying. But remaining cheery, reminding the kid that you'll be back to get them at ex time and giving the impression that you assume they wil have a great time is not an unhealthy approach.
I was using the phrase somewhat loosely.
When my parents dropped me off at Straight, they didn't tell me to stop crying or anything, they just left...
Sorry, but I don't see all that much of a difference...
The difference (aside from the obvious abuses) Is that straight more or less was designed to punish you and made every effort to limit private conversation. It also told parents not to beleive their children's stories of abuse. I am hoping that in the event that I send kids to school one day they are at the kind of nurturing place that they will overall do fine. I am advocating making the kid feel secure by making it clear they will be picked up by loved one at a specific time. Straight appears to have deliberately made kids feel totally abandoned. The best way of instilling confidence in a child is to set an example
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: TheWho on September 13, 2007, 07:34:29 PM
Quote from: ""Oz girl""
Quote from: ""Froderik""
Quote from: ""Guest""
well i wouldnt see it as a tough love approach. To me a tough love approach would be to tell the kid to stop crying. But remaining cheery, reminding the kid that you'll be back to get them at ex time and giving the impression that you assume they wil have a great time is not an unhealthy approach.
I was using the phrase somewhat loosely.
When my parents dropped me off at Straight, they didn't tell me to stop crying or anything, they just left...
Sorry, but I don't see all that much of a difference...
The difference (aside from the obvious abuses) Is that straight more or less was designed to punish you and made every effort to limit private conversation. It also told parents not to beleive their children's stories of abuse. I am hoping that in the event that I send kids to school one day they are at the kind of nurturing place that they will overall do fine. I am advocating making the kid feel secure by making it clear they will be picked up by loved one at a specific time. Straight appears to have deliberately made kids feel totally abandoned. The best way of instilling confidence in a child is to set an example
Its awful, the way it use to be from what I have read. Those terrible punishment schools are gone. The rehabilitation now at least has the kids talking to one another and their family needs to be present for many of the events. I am not saying they are great but at least they closed those places like straight.
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Anne Bonney on September 13, 2007, 07:43:16 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Its awful, the way it use to be from what I have read. Those terrible punishment schools are gone. The rehabilitation now at least has the kids talking to one another and their family needs to be present for many of the events. I am not saying they are great but at least they closed those places like straight.
Its not any different now. Honestly, its not. I wish, oh god how I wish, it was.
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: TheWho on September 13, 2007, 07:55:02 PM
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Its awful, the way it use to be from what I have read. Those terrible punishment schools are gone. The rehabilitation now at least has the kids talking to one another and their family needs to be present for many of the events. I am not saying they are great but at least they closed those places like straight.
Its not any different now. Honestly, its not. I wish, oh god how I wish, it was.
My mum has a cousin who sent her daughter to the states to one of those schools. She was beautiful but was having troubles and her parents were able to call and visit her. They wrote letters and she wasn’t abused at all and had a good social circle developed there, when she finished she was accepted to Harrow, which is a good school here.
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Anne Bonney on September 13, 2007, 08:44:51 PM
I'm not saying that there aren't nice summer camps and boarding schools. Those are very different from what we're talking about here. Anything that has forced or coerced 'therapy', isn't therapy. Therapy cannon, by its nature, be either.
Boarding schools, while not my choice to raise a child, are different from TBSs or RTCs or the like.
And summer camp? Are you kidding? I have some of my best memories from a true summer camp. Bonfires, sneaking out and making out, skinny dipping. Ahhh. good times.
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: TheWho on September 13, 2007, 09:26:09 PM
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""
I'm not saying that there aren't nice summer camps and boarding schools. Those are very different from what we're talking about here. Anything that has forced or coerced 'therapy', isn't therapy. Therapy cannon, by its nature, be either.
Boarding schools, while not my choice to raise a child, are different from TBSs or RTCs or the like.
And summer camp? Are you kidding? I have some of my best memories from a true summer camp. Bonfires, sneaking out and making out, skinny dipping. Ahhh. good times.
This was like a summer camp/ boarding school for kids who were having problems at home. She was a pretty little girl but always in trouble and her school work was bad. Her Mum was torn but got her father to pay for her trip and half the cost. She did very well, we would laugh that she went all the way to America to learn Spanish. I guess they sent her to Costa rica or panama to learn Spanish, when she could have flown to Spain for so much less. We were amazed at how well she was when she came home.
The summer camps here, that I went to, were just one big party and skinny dipping was the way to go if the counselors were sleeping. I found my first boyfriend that way, my parents used to send me for 6 weeks in the summer. No drugs or anything back then. My cousin would have had fun but she was so pretty I am sure she would not have survived and got in trouble, she did well in America.
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Che Gookin on September 13, 2007, 09:32:57 PM
Meh... now they have gone and fucked up the one thing that we Americans got right.. the summer camping tradition...
bleh..
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Anne Bonney on September 13, 2007, 09:37:48 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
This was like a summer camp/ boarding school for kids who were having problems at home. .
I did read the rest of what you said, but none of it mattered beyond this.
Summer camp is summer camp.
Behavioral therapy is behavioral therapy.
Don't water it down And don't degrade one of the few traditions we can be proud of. Really.
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Anne Bonney on September 13, 2007, 09:40:55 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
The summer camps here, that I went to, were just one big party and skinny dipping was the way to go if the counselors were sleeping. I found my first boyfriend that way, my parents used to send me for 6 weeks in the summer. No drugs or anything back then. My cousin would have had fun but she was so pretty I am sure she would not have survived and got in trouble, she did well in America.
Most of those fond memories you have would be enough to warrant shipping you off for at least a couple of years.
Sad, isn't it?
::noway:: :(
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Anonymous on September 13, 2007, 09:41:53 PM
yeah there are some good summer camps for the "not so well behaved". i hate institutions, i went to H.L.A and R.C.I, and i have nothing but bad things to say about them. but after h.l.a i went to Wolfeboro campschool in NH...and it was pretty fun. sucked in some ways - the headmaster had a drug sniffing dog, so it was impossible to get standard street drugs like weed on campus. the classes were tough, you had hours of supervised study hall every day, and alot of responsibilities around campus, but, there was plenty of other fun to go around. kids got in cigs, pills galore, among other deviant fun. and they actually treated us well....so well like 50% of the students come back year after year, and some become counselors when they go to college.
but...still issues with these camps.....the medical treatment sucks sucks sucks. i got sick there, got walking pnemonia, but they diagnosed it as a cold. by the time i got back i had fluid all up in my lungs and had to be hospitalized for 3 weeks. a few other kids got deathly sick too - 3 got whopping cough, and 2 got sallomonella. a few kids had psychotic fits there too...and they had no idea what was going on. some girl was slipped LSD at a theme park, and she got arrested for flippin out and sent to the psych ward. she was only 12, so they didnt belive the lsd story, and her urine came back negative (duh, lsd doesnt show), so they thought she was faking it, and reprimanded her harshly, while she was still tripping. another kid was going through vicodin detox at one point, and it was making him go crazy, hallucinate. they also didnt belive him so the let him suffer with no help, had to go to class everyday like everyone else.
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: TheWho on September 13, 2007, 09:49:44 PM
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""
Quote from: ""Guest""
This was like a summer camp/ boarding school for kids who were having problems at home. .
I did read the rest of what you said, but none of it mattered beyond this.
Summer camp is summer camp.
Behavioral therapy is behavioral therapy.
Don't water it down And don't degrade one of the few traditions we can be proud of. Really.
No, it wasn’t anything like that. I said summer camp/boarding school because she spent the summer months or almost fall in the mountains of Massachusetts before she went to boarding school. It wasn’t just the summer, she was there for over a year. They transferred her to South America for a month or so to learn Spanish for a second language and such. I only mentioned it because it was a place that didn’t abuse kids, and they could talk to each other and she came home doing really well and attended a good school later on.
I understand summer camps and they are different, we probably had more fun and didn’t have to study like she did and the counselors were much stricter.
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Anne Bonney on September 13, 2007, 09:51:51 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
yeah there are some good summer camps for the "not so well behaved". i hate institutions, i went to H.L.A and R.C.I, and i have nothing but bad things to say about them. but after h.l.a i went to Wolfeboro campschool in NH...and it was pretty fun. sucked in some ways - the headmaster had a drug sniffing dog, so it was impossible to get standard street drugs like weed on campus. the classes were tough, you had hours of supervised study hall every day, and alot of responsibilities around campus, but, there was plenty of other fun to go around. kids got in cigs, pills galore, among other deviant fun. and they actually treated us well....so well like 50% of the students come back year after year, and some become counselors when they go to college.
but...still issues with these camps.....the medical treatment sucks sucks sucks. i got sick there, got walking pnemonia, but they diagnosed it as a cold. by the time i got back i had fluid all up in my lungs and had to be hospitalized for 3 weeks. a few other kids got deathly sick too - 3 got whopping cough, and 2 got sallomonella. a few kids had psychotic fits there too...and they had no idea what was going on. some girl was slipped LSD at a theme park, and she got arrested for flippin out and sent to the psych ward. she was only 12, so they didnt belive the lsd story, and her urine came back negative (duh, lsd doesnt show), so they thought she was faking it, and reprimanded her harshly, while she was still tripping. another kid was going through vicodin detox at one point, and it was making him go crazy, hallucinate. they also didnt belive him so the let him suffer with no help, had to go to class everyday like everyone else.
OK. I have a lot to say about this, but holy shit. Lemme digest. Honey, sit back and read what you just wrote. Darlin'. That's not healthy. That's not therapeutic. That's abuse!
Goddamnit!! Is it just me? This is exaclty what I'm talkin about. This poor kid has been so conditioned that he believes this is acceptable on any level!!! Does this not bother anyone in Sheopleville?
:o :o :flame: :flame: :flame: :flame: :flame:
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: TheWho on September 13, 2007, 10:06:35 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
yeah there are some good summer camps for the "not so well behaved". i hate institutions, i went to H.L.A and R.C.I, and i have nothing but bad things to say about them. but after h.l.a i went to Wolfeboro campschool in NH...and it was pretty fun. sucked in some ways - the headmaster had a drug sniffing dog, so it was impossible to get standard street drugs like weed on campus. the classes were tough, you had hours of supervised study hall every day, and alot of responsibilities around campus, but, there was plenty of other fun to go around. kids got in cigs, pills galore, among other deviant fun. and they actually treated us well....so well like 50% of the students come back year after year, and some become counselors when they go to college.
but...still issues with these camps.....the medical treatment sucks sucks sucks. i got sick there, got walking pnemonia, but they diagnosed it as a cold. by the time i got back i had fluid all up in my lungs and had to be hospitalized for 3 weeks. a few other kids got deathly sick too - 3 got whopping cough, and 2 got sallomonella. a few kids had psychotic fits there too...and they had no idea what was going on. some girl was slipped LSD at a theme park, and she got arrested for flippin out and sent to the psych ward. she was only 12, so they didnt belive the lsd story, and her urine came back negative (duh, lsd doesnt show), so they thought she was faking it, and reprimanded her harshly, while she was still tripping. another kid was going through vicodin detox at one point, and it was making him go crazy, hallucinate. they also didnt belive him so the let him suffer with no help, had to go to class everyday like everyone else.
Yes , it sounds like the same place my cousin went to except it was in a different state. She had to study herself for 3 days as punishment for kissing a boy she met. They were hiking together and got lost for a few hours. If there was only one guy in the entire Black forest my cousin would find him and kiss him. She was so pretty she could get any guy, but she liked to kiss them all, all the time. i think that was why she went to america. She didnt do drugs so i dont know if that was happening. I am sorry you didnt seem to enjoy yourself.
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Anonymous on September 13, 2007, 10:16:52 PM
Ladies and gentlefucks, I think you might all be victims of a very skilled troll...
Quote
They transferred her to South America for a month or so to learn Spanish for a second language and such.
What was the name of the place you sent her to?
What was the name of the South American facility?
If it was so great, why don't you advertise it?
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: TheWho on September 13, 2007, 10:29:47 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Ladies and gentlefucks, I think you might all be victims of a very skilled troll...
Quote
They transferred her to South America for a month or so to learn Spanish for a second language and such.
What was the name of the place you sent her to?
What was the name of the South American facility?
If it was so great, why don't you advertise it?
Hey, screw you!! I was nice enough to respond to you about your time in Wolfeboro. I dont know the name of the school, but it was in Massachusetts and i remember it was near a river because her mother used to talk about it. she went to Costa Rica to learn spanish. I am not here for bloody adversements and I dont appreciate being called trolled. If it is important I can get the name from my mother.
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Anne Bonney on September 13, 2007, 10:33:48 PM
Calm down everybody. this is probably a misunderstanding if y'all will go back and read what each other wrote and just talk. Seriously. Everyone (including myself) is so touchy and paranoid.
I don't think you guys are on opposite sides of the fence. Maybe I'm wrong, I haven't read everything but don't just fly off the handle.
Peace. ::dove::
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: psy on September 13, 2007, 10:36:20 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Ladies and gentlefucks, I think you might all be victims of a very skilled troll...
Quote
They transferred her to South America for a month or so to learn Spanish for a second language and such.
What was the name of the place you sent her to?
What was the name of the South American facility?
If it was so great, why don't you advertise it?
Hey, screw you!! I was nice enough to respond to you about your time in Wolfeboro. I dont know the name of the school, but it was in Massachusetts and i remember it was near a river because her mother used to talk about it. she went to Costa Rica to learn spanish. I am not here for bloody adversements and I dont appreciate being called trolled. If it is important I can get the name from my mother.
Costa Rica... Might be Dundee (WWASP)
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Anonymous on September 13, 2007, 10:42:42 PM
TheWho is a known child molestor.
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Deborah on September 13, 2007, 11:30:45 PM
Quote from: ""psy""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Ladies and gentlefucks, I think you might all be victims of a very skilled troll...
Quote
They transferred her to South America for a month or so to learn Spanish for a second language and such.
What was the name of the place you sent her to?
What was the name of the South American facility?
If it was so great, why don't you advertise it?
Hey, screw you!! I was nice enough to respond to you about your time in Wolfeboro. I dont know the name of the school, but it was in Massachusetts and i remember it was near a river because her mother used to talk about it. she went to Costa Rica to learn spanish. I am not here for bloody adversements and I dont appreciate being called trolled. If it is important I can get the name from my mother.
Costa Rica... Might be Dundee (WWASP)
Oh Jesus Christ. Which TBS sent kids to Costa Rica?
Give up? ASR
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Anonymous on September 13, 2007, 11:50:35 PM
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""
Quote from: ""Guest""
yeah there are some good summer camps for the "not so well behaved". i hate institutions, i went to H.L.A and R.C.I, and i have nothing but bad things to say about them. but after h.l.a i went to Wolfeboro campschool in NH...and it was pretty fun. sucked in some ways - the headmaster had a drug sniffing dog, so it was impossible to get standard street drugs like weed on campus. the classes were tough, you had hours of supervised study hall every day, and alot of responsibilities around campus, but, there was plenty of other fun to go around. kids got in cigs, pills galore, among other deviant fun. and they actually treated us well....so well like 50% of the students come back year after year, and some become counselors when they go to college.
but...still issues with these camps.....the medical treatment sucks sucks sucks. i got sick there, got walking pnemonia, but they diagnosed it as a cold. by the time i got back i had fluid all up in my lungs and had to be hospitalized for 3 weeks. a few other kids got deathly sick too - 3 got whopping cough, and 2 got sallomonella. a few kids had psychotic fits there too...and they had no idea what was going on. some girl was slipped LSD at a theme park, and she got arrested for flippin out and sent to the psych ward. she was only 12, so they didnt belive the lsd story, and her urine came back negative (duh, lsd doesnt show), so they thought she was faking it, and reprimanded her harshly, while she was still tripping. another kid was going through vicodin detox at one point, and it was making him go crazy, hallucinate. they also didnt belive him so the let him suffer with no help, had to go to class everyday like everyone else.
OK. I have a lot to say about this, but holy shit. Lemme digest. Honey, sit back and read what you just wrote. Darlin'. That's not healthy. That's not therapeutic. That's abuse!
Goddamnit!! Is it just me? This is exaclty what I'm talkin about. This poor kid has been so conditioned that he believes this is acceptable on any level!!! Does this not bother anyone in Sheopleville?
:o :o :flame: :flame: :flame: :flame: :flame:
he he i think you got me wrong. you when you wake up, you have the choice of a shower or a dip in the lake. most people opted for the shower because the lake was ice cold in the morning. but...my little tent section made a bet with the counselor that if we all jump in for a week straight, we get a trip to ben&jerrys on the headmaster every day, for a week. the kids did it, and i was the only one who got sick. i guess my body cant take it. they took me to a doctor twice to try to figure out what i have, not just a school nurse. it's just that you cant expect to find a decent doctor out in the middle of nowhere, new hampshire. he got me on antibiotics and all sorts of stuff, but if he had made an x-ray he would have seen that i had pnemonia - as the doctors back home did.
as far as the lsd girl, remember, we were at an amusement park. we got weekly trips to amusement parks, waterparks, etc. they gave us cash and let us roam free, just had to meet at the busses at the end of the day. would an abusive place do that? it in a way turned out in her favor. she got out the next day, was completely O.K and since the staff didnt think she took drugs, or at least intentionally, and she had already had a hard time, she was in no trouble. life went on.
seriously, wolfeboro isnt a bad place. they've been around since the 1900's, and have 600+ students come through every summer.
the ONLY punishments you get at wolfeboro are as follows: if you kinda fuck up, you get your allowance taken away. so you cant use the vending machines or buy stuff when they take to to the deli, ice cream, trips. if you really fuck up, you have to stay in from the weekend trips and study or clean up trash. you have assigned tables and waiters, they might make you do waiter duty for an extra week. if your grades suck, you have to go to supervised study instead of your tentcabin, where you actually have to study. if your grades really suck they make you stay in and study all weekend.
very few kids get shitty grades - the classes are pretty easy, the teachers are really good and are often college professors who come from big universities across the country. and you have a maximum of like 8 kids in every class, plus the profs help you study all you need, they stick around for most of the day.
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Deborah on September 14, 2007, 12:00:52 AM
Quote
seriously, wolfeboro isnt a bad place. they've been around since the 1900's, and have 600+ students come through every summer.
the ONLY punishments you get at wolfeboro are as follows: if you kinda fuck up, you get your allowance taken away. so you cant use the vending machines or buy stuff when they take to to the deli, ice cream, trips. if you really fuck up, you have to stay in from the weekend trips and study or clean up trash. you have assigned tables and waiters, they might make you do waiter duty for an extra week. if your grades suck, you have to go to supervised study instead of your tentcabin, where you actually have to study. if your grades really suck they make you stay in and study all weekend.
very few kids get shitty grades - the classes are pretty easy, the teachers are really good and are often college professors who come from big universities across the country. and you have a maximum of like 8 kids in every class, plus the profs help you study all you need, they stick around for most of the day.
It's all relative huh? I guess compared to HLA, it did seem like a summer camp.
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Oz girl on September 14, 2007, 06:47:38 AM
i think ARS sent kids to Cost rica at the end of the "program" at one stage. it was in What it Takes to Pull me Through It sounded like the only worhtwhile thing about the whole damn school anlthough some kids I subsequently spoke to have pointed out even that was gruelling and hellish for many. There seems to be a small but disturbing trend of well to do Britons who may send their kids to these schools. Some have gone to WWASP during Cassa by the Sea's heyday. I really hope the trends does not catch on here!
To the English Aunt. It is Ironic that this girl's parents sent their child to the US because no judge in the UK would seriously allow any parent to incarcerate their child for 18 months at a time without trial. if a school has no exeats, summer holidays, christmas holidays and limits communication between a parent and child (if only through monitoring of mail and phone calls) it ceases to be a school and becomes a jail. I would bet my house Harrow would not dream of such a ridiculous set of policies.
social services would also be unlikely to allow UK parents to perform the kind of "therapies" that these places perform. perhaps you should ring them and ask if it is OK to make a kid who misbehaves live in a tent in the height of winter without hot water or adequate food.
I wonder if many Britons who go with this option are being hoodwinked because Wilderness is being sold as Summer Camp which has a certain mystique in Non US countries. i also wonder if these boarding schools are being sold a a slightly stricter version of normal english Boarding school. if they are it is a whopping lie. if parents are being sold the truth then they should take a long hard look at themselves and why they are willing to put Blind faith in strangers in a foreign country. At least the American parents who send their kids to these places can theoretically visit!
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: TheWho on September 14, 2007, 08:32:44 AM
Yeh, Sounds like ASR (Academy at Swift River) which is in Massachusetts. They use to have a Costa Rica segment which taught Spanish thru immersion. I am not surprised your cousin did well after graduating from there. I had a daughter who attended and she did well also. You will hear many bad things about Therapeutic Boarding schools on here but they are far from being all alike and they aren’t like they were 30 years ago, which is where many of the stories come from.
Sounds like Wolfeboro was a good experience, I will have to look into that school. Thanks for your posts!
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Anonymous on September 14, 2007, 09:21:00 AM
Did your daughter get the benefits of ASR's education before or after you molested her Who?
To the English woman Google WWASP & CEDU and see whether the abuses in this industry are from 30 yrs ago
Go to a site called isaccorp and see if such abuses are from 30 yrs ago. Ring any randon TBS and ask how many exeat weekend and summers kids spend away from the school. You will then see that even the more benign options are still just jails with pretty curtains
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: TheWho on September 14, 2007, 10:36:48 AM
This site goes on all night. I looked into CEDU and WWASP and one was talking about the bankruptcy of their school and the other showed me a group of schools but no mention of ASR or Wolfeboro. I don’t know all the little points of her stay but she came home very happy and wants to live in Costa Rica and do volunteer work. There was no local magistrate who ordered her to go. Her parents found the place thru friends who had a child there. I have to say that it is not abusive at all, the food was actually better than home she said and she did put on weight. They went rafting or canoing and were able to go into town for movies. They were very strict on her with her studies, which she didnt like. She was never a big academic, so I know she considered that abusive since she wanted to drop out of school and they would not let her. They took most of her clothes away from her for not being appropriate and her mum had to send new ones, which drove her bonko , her mum buys prudish type clothes.
To the who: Someone doesn’t like you very much.
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Anonymous on September 14, 2007, 10:53:21 AM
The who openly admitted he molested a child. it is a statement of fact.
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Anonymous on September 14, 2007, 11:03:38 AM
A lot of parents of program survivors I've talked to still to this day claim their children had a wonderful time at the program they sent their child to. In reality their kid was physically, psychologically and sometimes sexually abused. There is a serious disconnect with parents in this industry.
Many abusive parents send their children to programs to keep them quiet. This is the case of TheWho I've been told numerous times.
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: TheWho on September 14, 2007, 11:10:43 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
The who openly admitted he molested a child. it is a statement of fact.
I find that difficult to believe. I have read what thewho has wrote and he/she does not impress me as that.
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Anonymous on September 14, 2007, 11:14:54 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
The who openly admitted he molested a child. it is a statement of fact.
Yep!!! I too was around when he posted his story, expecting some kind of sympathy from this site, he thought that since other staff members who abused kids were accepted to post here he would be too.
As soon as he figured out child molesters are not welcome here he deleted that post and has been engaged in misdirection ever since to confuse people, especially new posters which he tries to get to his side.
Honestly it does not surprise me that program parents rally around a child molester though, it does not surprise me at all.
::hrumph::
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: TheWho on September 14, 2007, 12:36:50 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
This site goes on all night. I looked into CEDU and WWASP and one was talking about the bankruptcy of their school and the other showed me a group of schools but no mention of ASR or Wolfeboro. I don’t know all the little points of her stay but she came home very happy and wants to live in Costa Rica and do volunteer work. There was no local magistrate who ordered her to go. Her parents found the place thru friends who had a child there. I have to say that it is not abusive at all, the food was actually better than home she said and she did put on weight. They went rafting or canoing and were able to go into town for movies. They were very strict on her with her studies, which she didnt like. She was never a big academic, so I know she considered that abusive since she wanted to drop out of school and they would not let her. They took most of her clothes away from her for not being appropriate and her mum had to send new ones, which drove her bonko , her mum buys prudish type clothes.
To the who: Someone doesn’t like you very much.
CEDU and WWASP are totally different entities and are not related to ASR and others. ASR isn’t your typical place where kids are forced or court ordered to go. It is more of an elite boarding school for struggling kids, your cousin did well by choosing it. My daughter liked the food also (doesn’t say much for how I cooked, though!) and they are strict on their rules, especially study times. I had to send her some new clothes also, there was a rule you couldn’t have anything with glitter and I sent her a sweater with just a little glitter around the sleeve and she wasn’t allowed to wear it. I never knew why they couldn’t have glitter. The Costa Rica portion was a nice end to her stay there. She really blossomed.
Yes, I have my own personal troll, it seems, who doesn’t like the fact that I speak about my daughters success. If you read around the site here you will notice most of the posts are negative towards all programs and schools. Anyone who comes on here with anything positive is hounded a bit until they leave. This particular troll is a little frustrated that I have stuck it out so long.
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: psy on September 14, 2007, 05:26:30 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""Guest""
This site goes on all night. I looked into CEDU and WWASP and one was talking about the bankruptcy of their school and the other showed me a group of schools but no mention of ASR or Wolfeboro. I don’t know all the little points of her stay but she came home very happy and wants to live in Costa Rica and do volunteer work. There was no local magistrate who ordered her to go. Her parents found the place thru friends who had a child there. I have to say that it is not abusive at all, the food was actually better than home she said and she did put on weight. They went rafting or canoing and were able to go into town for movies. They were very strict on her with her studies, which she didnt like. She was never a big academic, so I know she considered that abusive since she wanted to drop out of school and they would not let her. They took most of her clothes away from her for not being appropriate and her mum had to send new ones, which drove her bonko , her mum buys prudish type clothes.
To the who: Someone doesn’t like you very much.
CEDU and WWASP are totally different entities and are not related to ASR and others. ASR isn’t your typical place where kids are forced or court ordered to go. It is more of an elite boarding school for struggling kids, your cousin did well by choosing it. My daughter liked the food also (doesn’t say much for how I cooked, though!) and they are strict on their rules, especially study times. I had to send her some new clothes also, there was a rule you couldn’t have anything with glitter and I sent her a sweater with just a little glitter around the sleeve and she wasn’t allowed to wear it. I never knew why they couldn’t have glitter. The Costa Rica portion was a nice end to her stay there. She really blossomed.
Yes, I have my own personal troll, it seems, who doesn’t like the fact that I speak about my daughters success. If you read around the site here you will notice most of the posts are negative towards all programs and schools. Anyone who comes on here with anything positive is hounded a bit until they leave. This particular troll is a little frustrated that I have stuck it out so long.
You're good... I must admit.
Hmm.. That reminds me. I need to finish that T-shirt.
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Anonymous on September 14, 2007, 06:41:25 PM
The only "parents" that talk to theWho are anonymous.
Because it's theWho talking to himself.
:rofl:
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Anonymous on September 14, 2007, 06:44:03 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Because it's theWho talking to himself.
:rofl:
Well, duh. Blatant fakery is blatant.
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: TheWho on September 14, 2007, 07:21:47 PM
The only "parents" that talk to theWho are anonymous. [/quote]
Classic... I love this place!
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Anonymous on September 14, 2007, 08:27:08 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""Guest""
This site goes on all night. I looked into CEDU and WWASP and one was talking about the bankruptcy of their school and the other showed me a group of schools but no mention of ASR or Wolfeboro. I don’t know all the little points of her stay but she came home very happy and wants to live in Costa Rica and do volunteer work. There was no local magistrate who ordered her to go. Her parents found the place thru friends who had a child there. I have to say that it is not abusive at all, the food was actually better than home she said and she did put on weight. They went rafting or canoing and were able to go into town for movies. They were very strict on her with her studies, which she didnt like. She was never a big academic, so I know she considered that abusive since she wanted to drop out of school and they would not let her. They took most of her clothes away from her for not being appropriate and her mum had to send new ones, which drove her bonko , her mum buys prudish type clothes.
To the who: Someone doesn’t like you very much.
CEDU and WWASP are totally different entities and are not related to ASR and others. ASR isn’t your typical place where kids are forced or court ordered to go. It is more of an elite boarding school for struggling kids, your cousin did well by choosing it. My daughter liked the food also (doesn’t say much for how I cooked, though!) and they are strict on their rules, especially study times. I had to send her some new clothes also, there was a rule you couldn’t have anything with glitter and I sent her a sweater with just a little glitter around the sleeve and she wasn’t allowed to wear it. I never knew why they couldn’t have glitter. The Costa Rica portion was a nice end to her stay there. She really blossomed.
Yes, I have my own personal troll, it seems, who doesn’t like the fact that I speak about my daughters success. If you read around the site here you will notice most of the posts are negative towards all programs and schools. Anyone who comes on here with anything positive is hounded a bit until they leave. This particular troll is a little frustrated that I have stuck it out so long.
The trolls here are notorious for their negativity and ATTACKS. I am pleased to hear she had a positive program experience. Don't be surprised when this point falls on deaf ears and you are ATTACKED by ZEALOTS. There are many good programs out there. It sounds like you found one of them. When I chose a program for my son -- wilderness and TBS -- it was difficult finding REAL information. I have decided to help with this problem and DO SOMETHING. I DO NOT TAKE REFERRAL FEES I AM NOT LIKE SUE SCHEFF. I am seeking VOLUNTEER parents to inspect facilities. Parents who know what to look for. We just put our website up, check us out! www.WHOOMP.org (http://www.WHOOMP.org) Woman Have Our Own Mother Priority
IT'S TIME TO ACT.
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Anonymous on September 14, 2007, 08:38:38 PM
The National Institute for Methodical Parenting is also in support of this.
Come visit http://therapy.on.nimp.org (http://therapy.on.nimp.org) for our pro-program website.
And remember, don't believe everything you read on Fornits!
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Anne Bonney on September 14, 2007, 08:41:18 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
The National Institute for Methodical Parenting is also in support of this.
Come visit http://therapy.on.nimp.org (http://therapy.on.nimp.org) for our pro-program website.
And remember, don't believe everything you read on Fornits!
::bwahaha::
Of course not silly.
::seg::
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: TheWho on September 14, 2007, 09:09:21 PM
Guest wrote:
Quote
The trolls here are notorious for their negativity and ATTACKS. I am pleased to hear she had a positive program experience. Don't be surprised when this point falls on deaf ears and you are ATTACKED by ZEALOTS. There are many good programs out there. It sounds like you found one of them. When I chose a program for my son -- wilderness and TBS -- it was difficult finding REAL information.
Thanks guest, you get use to the trolls after awhile.......It is really difficult to get information on which TBS or wilderness to choose. There were not many options when I was looking for a my daughter and we didn’t use and Edcon. Now that I am better informed I would suggest looking at NATSAP (http://http://www.natsap.org/) web site. They seem to be raising the standards on which schools they allow in for membership. If you find a type of program that fits your needs I would strongly suggest that you speak to parents who have had children attend that particular program before making a commitment. But I feel this is a good start for most parents who are looking for placement.
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Anonymous on September 14, 2007, 10:09:10 PM
TheWho: Your link does not work it goes to our old site.
Parents looking for placement try this link instead-- it actually works. NATSAP (http://http://www.whoomp.org)
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Anonymous on September 14, 2007, 10:11:42 PM
I note the who does not deny his claim that he had molested his own daughter. This is because he was stupid enough to post it
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Anonymous on September 14, 2007, 11:26:15 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Guest wrote:
Quote
The trolls here are notorious for their negativity and ATTACKS. I am pleased to hear she had a positive program experience. Don't be surprised when this point falls on deaf ears and you are ATTACKED by ZEALOTS. There are many good programs out there. It sounds like you found one of them. When I chose a program for my son -- wilderness and TBS -- it was difficult finding REAL information.
Thanks guest, you get use to the trolls after awhile.......It is really difficult to get information on which TBS or wilderness to choose. There were not many options when I was looking for a my daughter and we didn’t use and Edcon. Now that I am better informed I would suggest looking at NATSAP (http://http://www.isaccorp.org/) web site. They seem to be raising the standards on which schools they allow in for membership. If you find a type of program that fits your needs I would strongly suggest that you speak to parents who have had children attend that particular program before making a commitment. But I feel this is a good start for most parents who are looking for placement.
QFTing to prove TheWho's stupidity (with edited NATSAP link, naturally).
Hey Who, did you bother clicking that link before you replied? :lol:
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: TheWho on September 15, 2007, 07:29:28 AM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Guest wrote:
Quote
The trolls here are notorious for their negativity and ATTACKS. I am pleased to hear she had a positive program experience. Don't be surprised when this point falls on deaf ears and you are ATTACKED by ZEALOTS. There are many good programs out there. It sounds like you found one of them. When I chose a program for my son -- wilderness and TBS -- it was difficult finding REAL information.
Thanks guest, you get use to the trolls after awhile.......It is really difficult to get information on which TBS or wilderness to choose. There were not many options when I was looking for a my daughter and we didn’t use and Edcon. Now that I am better informed I would suggest looking at NATSAP (http://http://www.natsap.org/) web site. They seem to be raising the standards on which schools they allow in for membership. If you find a type of program that fits your needs I would strongly suggest that you speak to parents who have had children attend that particular program before making a commitment. But I feel this is a good start for most parents who are looking for placement.
The link is working okay.........I suggest that anyone "Donot" click on a link from a guest poster or unless you feel comfortable with who they are.
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Che Gookin on September 15, 2007, 09:44:54 AM
Natsap is a collection of industry representatives who are more concerned with maintaining the bottom lines of their programmes than raising standards.
NATSAP = bullshit.
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Ursus on September 15, 2007, 10:20:09 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
This site goes on all night. I looked into CEDU and WWASP and one was talking about the bankruptcy of their school and the other showed me a group of schools but no mention of ASR or Wolfeboro. I don’t know all the little points of her stay but she came home very happy and wants to live in Costa Rica and do volunteer work. There was no local magistrate who ordered her to go. Her parents found the place thru friends who had a child there. I have to say that it is not abusive at all, the food was actually better than home she said and she did put on weight. They went rafting or canoing and were able to go into town for movies. They were very strict on her with her studies, which she didnt like. She was never a big academic, so I know she considered that abusive since she wanted to drop out of school and they would not let her. They took most of her clothes away from her for not being appropriate and her mum had to send new ones, which drove her bonko , her mum buys prudish type clothes.
You can expend a great deal of energy bickering about whether physical conditions can be deemed abusive or not. The physical conditions are, when all is said and done, merely symptoms and crude barometers of where the true, diabolical abuse often lies: deep in the psyche of the kids that go to these places.
I can think of camping experiences I've had where the physical conditions might meet the criteria of conditions that some might deem "abusive," but I did not consider them abusive. Why? I wasn't being brainwashed. It was summer camp, not reprogramming.
On the other hand, there are places like ASR where some of the kids experience conditions that can be deemed physically abusive, but some do not. Depends on the kid and the particular dynamic with personnel that are there at that given point in time, etc. etc. Something might be said about what kind of number gets done on a kid's head seeing that shit go on around you, whether you, yourself, have to jump through those hoops or not. 'Cuz the real point of places like ASR is reprogramming, and that IS inherently psychologically abusive to some kids, whether you can put your finger on specific "evidence" or not. Much of the damage done does not surface right away, might even take years to surface for some kids.
There is also something else I should say about places like this. There is such a power trip mentality going on amongst many of the staff, and such a degradation of respect for other people's autonomy, that these conditions often end up translating into sexual abuse of the minors who get sent there to get "fixed" and "straightened out." Again, it can take years before those truths see the light of day. Those kids are informed that they are "special," that other people "wouldn't understand," blah blah blah... Just a heads up for you, for what it's worth...
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Che Gookin on September 15, 2007, 10:26:57 AM
The best part about Ursus post had to have come after Ursus posted it.. Lols... gags... hahahahah
god damn..
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Froderik on September 15, 2007, 10:33:07 AM
It seems this thread got derailed back on the bottom of page 14 and turned into a debate about ASR..
Anyone new to this thread should go back and read the OP...
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Anonymous on September 15, 2007, 01:58:51 PM
Quote from: ""Froderik""
It seems this thread got derailed back on the bottom of page 14 and turned into a debate about ASR..
Anyone new to this thread should go back and read the OP...
depends on your forum settings actually, i have only 8 pages not 14 because i set my threads to show 20 messages at a time instead of 10. a link to the post in reference might help. just thought i'd mention it.
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Froderik on September 15, 2007, 02:20:45 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Froderik""
It seems this thread got derailed back on the bottom of page 14 and turned into a debate about ASR..
Anyone new to this thread should go back and read the OP...
depends on your forum settings actually, i have only 8 pages not 14 because i set my threads to show 20 messages at a time instead of 10. a link to the post in reference might help. just thought i'd mention it.
Well then, some algebra will come in handy..let's see.. i guess you'd take the fraction 14 over 17 and set up the equation with the numerator and the unknown over 8 (the known denominator with your settings). Then you would proceed to solve the equation by cross-multiplying...etc.. lol. Of course, you would have to factor in an average allowing for a variance in the sizes of posts (ultimately, posts per page).
Perhaps I should have just said "back there somewhere" in lieu of my more direct reference...hindsight's 20/20..
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: TheWho on September 15, 2007, 02:25:05 PM
. .. ... .... .....
....... ASR discussion moved to "Aspen Group"
..... .... ... .. .
Title: Re: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Froderik on September 15, 2007, 02:27:14 PM
Quote from: ""Wandering Waygookin""
I have zero faith in the ability of legislature in the area of passing effective regulations against TBS programmes. I've seen their ability to change to meet the new circumstances first hand. Congress will put on a big song and dance whilst programmes snigger and make a few superficial changes.
My thoughts on this calls for a long term war against the very roots of the problems. Or at least the part of the problem I believe that can be addressed in the area of the incredible ignorance that exists in our population to this very day. This is despite the fact that numerous websites, forums, books, and now movies exist.
Time and persistence will help reduce this ignorance in our society. Thoughts ideas and suggestions are being called for to address this matter. I've already started on a writing project of my own, put on hold due to my current vacation, but it will be finished.
IDEas biatches..
and not just Oh lets let Maia deal with it.
come on people.. takes an entire damn army not just one soldier.
///bump\
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Anonymous on September 15, 2007, 06:27:11 PM
BuzzKill whines and a posts gets deleted?
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Anne Bonney on September 15, 2007, 06:37:43 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
BuzzKill whines and a posts gets deleted?
Did something get deleted?
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: 3xsaSeedling on September 15, 2007, 08:06:56 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
BuzzKill whines and a posts gets deleted?
I asked for the post to be deleted.
Fact is it's still there, too.
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Anonymous on September 16, 2007, 01:56:19 AM
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""
Quote from: ""Guest""
BuzzKill whines and a posts gets deleted?
Did something get deleted?
The post before Ursus was deleted.
Title: Re: Winning The Culture War
Post by: TheWho on September 16, 2007, 09:56:57 AM
TSW Wrote:
Quote
I have zero faith in the ability of legislature in the area of passing effective regulations against TBS programmes. I've seen their ability to change to meet the new circumstances first hand. Congress will put on a big song and dance whilst programmes snigger and make a few superficial changes.
I wouldn’t put my faith in congress getting anything done in this area. If the masses feel there is a need for a particular service and corporations are providing this service for a nice profit, why would they chop the head off? Its better for their careers to focus on something popular like Aides or the war…these people are politicians not philanthropists.
Quote
My thoughts on this calls for a long term war against the very roots of the problems. Or at least the part of the problem I believe that can be addressed in the area of the incredible ignorance that exists in our population to this very day. This is despite the fact that numerous websites, forums, books, and now movies exist.
I agree with this approach, as with any problem it cannot be solved unless the “root causeâ€
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Anonymous on September 16, 2007, 11:08:10 AM
Fuck off and die you convicted criminal. Your record means you cant be taken seriously as a genuine stakeholder.
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Anonymous on September 16, 2007, 11:48:17 AM
Want to know what the most interesting thing is about TheWho's posts?
This construct right here:
Quote
…
This is one character, a character created by Microsoft Word. You can't get something like this 'in nature' (just typing in the phpBB window). This went through a word processor before it got to us.
Why would that be, I wonder? Why would these posts need to be run through a word processor first?
This is simple: TheWho is not one person. In all likelihood there is one PR guy doing all of TheWho's "quick" posts, who has other people who might want to say something to Fornits, so they run it through a word processor and give it to the PR guy, who edits it as he thinks is needed and puts it up. He also manages the various pro-Aspen anonymous trolls who show up every now and then.
It's not valid information, nor should it be taken at all seriously by Fornits. The root cause of programs is programmies. Some things (e.g. slavery) CAN be mostly erased by making them illegal. And erasing programs, and *keeping* them erased (watch for when they pop up under another name), most of all, creates good old-fashioned FEAR, a useful tool in our arsenal.
It should also be noted that the PR guy playing TheWho has a list of topics he WON'T reply to, because he doesn't want to bump them. I intend to keep these topics active and on-topic.
Title: Re: Winning The Culture War
Post by: TheWho on September 16, 2007, 03:46:08 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
TSW Wrote:
Quote
I have zero faith in the ability of legislature in the area of passing effective regulations against TBS programmes. I've seen their ability to change to meet the new circumstances first hand. Congress will put on a big song and dance whilst programmes snigger and make a few superficial changes.
I wouldn’t put my faith in congress getting anything done in this area. If the masses feel there is a need for a particular service and corporations are providing this service for a nice profit, why would they chop the head off? Its better for their careers to focus on something popular like Aides or the war…these people are politicians not philanthropists.
Quote
My thoughts on this calls for a long term war against the very roots of the problems. Or at least the part of the problem I believe that can be addressed in the area of the incredible ignorance that exists in our population to this very day. This is despite the fact that numerous websites, forums, books, and now movies exist.
I agree with this approach, as with any problem it cannot be solved unless the “root causeâ€
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: TheWho on September 16, 2007, 05:11:37 PM
Guest wrote:
Quote
I would add that we need to show examples of kids who have been abused by the industry as well, ignoring that the industry exists would not work either. I see what you are talking about and it might be right.
We would first want to quantify that the industry is responsible for the abuse, not isolated cases, bad hires, one or two schools etc. If the abuse is continuous through out the industry and is systemic then these could be used as examples otherwise the parents would see right through to a possible witch hunt and the effort would lose credibility in its initial phase.
I would be careful of using this approach, you could lose many people/followers.
To date I haven’t been convinced that the entire industry is abusive, just portions of it.
Title: Re: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Anonymous on September 16, 2007, 05:27:37 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""TheWho""
TSW Wrote:
Quote
I have zero faith in the ability of legislature in the area of passing effective regulations against TBS programmes. I've seen their ability to change to meet the new circumstances first hand. Congress will put on a big song and dance whilst programmes snigger and make a few superficial changes.
I wouldn’t put my faith in congress getting anything done in this area. If the masses feel there is a need for a particular service and corporations are providing this service for a nice profit, why would they chop the head off? Its better for their careers to focus on something popular like Aides or the war…these people are politicians not philanthropists.
Quote
My thoughts on this calls for a long term war against the very roots of the problems. Or at least the part of the problem I believe that can be addressed in the area of the incredible ignorance that exists in our population to this very day. This is despite the fact that numerous websites, forums, books, and now movies exist.
I agree with this approach, as with any problem it cannot be solved unless the “root causeâ€
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: TheWho on September 16, 2007, 05:49:02 PM
Quote
I would add that we need to show examples of kids who have been abused by the industry as well, ignoring that the industry exists would not work either. I see what you are talking about and it might be right.
Actually, now that I think about it, I think we are jumping ahead a little. Once "Root cause" is determined, then would be the time to identify actions or solutions.
Title: Re: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Deprogrammed on September 16, 2007, 06:34:34 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""TheWho""
TSW Wrote:
Quote
I have zero faith in the ability of legislature in the area of passing effective regulations against TBS programmes. I've seen their ability to change to meet the new circumstances first hand. Congress will put on a big song and dance whilst programmes snigger and make a few superficial changes.
I wouldn’t put my faith in congress getting anything done in this area. If the masses feel there is a need for a particular service and corporations are providing this service for a nice profit, why would they chop the head off? Its better for their careers to focus on something popular like Aides or the war…these people are politicians not philanthropists.
Quote
My thoughts on this calls for a long term war against the very roots of the problems. Or at least the part of the problem I believe that can be addressed in the area of the incredible ignorance that exists in our population to this very day. This is despite the fact that numerous websites, forums, books, and now movies exist.
I agree with this approach, as with any problem it cannot be solved unless the “root causeâ€
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Anonymous on September 16, 2007, 07:33:00 PM
thewho: again, look up the stanford prison experiment. abuse, or more specifically sadism, has been studied and quantified. yet programs and parents ignore the data, partially because it's inconvenient and partially beacuse the schools and media (semblers) dont want that kind of information popping up on CNN, time mag, or the first page of google.
the industry is based on a principle which indirectly encourages sadism.
unfortunately there will always be a demand for TBS's and schools for "troubled teens" because there will always be parents who cannot and will not take responsiblity for their own kids, along with the .001 percent of kids that actually need a program. so taking the whole thing down by force, just destroying it, wont do much good. neither will posting porn on fornits. what needs to be done is a complete re-evaluation of what we consider to be "treatment" and what helps, and what doesnt.
for example...i watched this show in disovery yesterday where they talked about how the old IQ system and tests are complete B.S because there is more than one type of Intelligence. this kind of research has the ability to completely debunk all the myths which professionals hold about education, teens, psychiatry, etc; along with the potential to completely revamp the national educational system, not just tbs's.
although i admit when it comes to places like the WWASPS schools, they should just get destroyed, flattened. there is no redemtion for them. they will eventually fade into history just as devil's island did.
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Froderik on September 16, 2007, 09:13:03 PM
Once again this thread has gone WAY off track.. fuckers.. lol..
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: TheWho on September 16, 2007, 09:31:49 PM
Quote from: ""Froderik""
Once again this thread has gone WAY off track.. fuckers.. lol..
Not really, with the exception of the porn that someone posted, the conversation has been on TBS and effecting changes. Read back to my previous 2 posts.
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: TheWho on September 16, 2007, 09:33:44 PM
Quote
thewho: again, look up the stanford prison experiment. abuse, or more specifically sadism, has been studied and quantified. yet programs and parents ignore the data, partially because it's inconvenient and partially beacuse the schools and media (semblers) dont want that kind of information popping up on CNN, time mag, or the first page of google.
I have found it difficult to compare “The Stanford prisonâ€
Title: the sheriff's pot plants
Post by: Anonymous on September 18, 2007, 09:01:38 AM
Quote from: ""psy""
Right... So the basic idea is to randomly plant seeds all over the place. If everybody who smoked did this, enforcement of prohibition would become untenable.
Another fun thing you can do to help fuck with prohibitionist types is to call the "Anonymous Snitch Line" in your locale and inform them about the marijuana plants growing in the back yard of the house belonging to the local chief of police, the mayor, program parents, and other vocal prohibitionists. Tell them about the meth lab in the garage, too.
Title: Re: the sheriff's pot plants
Post by: Froderik on September 19, 2007, 06:33:17 AM
Quote from: ""Narc On The Narc""
Another fun thing you can do to help fuck with prohibitionist types is to call the "Anonymous Snitch Line" in your locale and inform them about the marijuana plants growing in the back yard of the house belonging to the local chief of police, the mayor, program parents, and other vocal prohibitionists. Tell them about the meth lab in the garage, too.
:rofl: :tup:
Title: Re: the sheriff's pot plants
Post by: psy on September 19, 2007, 03:35:39 PM
Quote from: ""Narc On The Narc""
Quote from: ""psy""
Right... So the basic idea is to randomly plant seeds all over the place. If everybody who smoked did this, enforcement of prohibition would become untenable.
Another fun thing you can do to help fuck with prohibitionist types is to call the "Anonymous Snitch Line" in your locale and inform them about the marijuana plants growing in the back yard of the house belonging to the local chief of police, the mayor, program parents, and other vocal prohibitionists. Tell them about the meth lab in the garage, too.
::roflmao:: ::roflmao:: ::roflmao:: ::roflmao::
Title: Re: the sheriff's pot plants
Post by: Antigen on September 19, 2007, 04:04:29 PM
Quote from: ""Narc On The Narc""
Another fun thing you can do to help fuck with prohibitionist types is to call the "Anonymous Snitch Line" in your locale and inform them about the marijuana plants growing in the back yard of the house belonging to the local chief of police, the mayor, program parents, and other vocal prohibitionists. Tell them about the meth lab in the garage, too.
I was gonna say this.... but I got high. lol
Quote from: ""Who""
The [Stanford] experiment was widely criticized for being unscientific. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think the experiment was totally flawed, but I just don’t think it can be used in comparison to TBS’s or wilderness.
Except that people placed in this sort of unscientific, contrived, extreme totalitarian experiment keep having various kinds of breakdowns and psyche troubles. And, for some damned reason, in neither case do the people running the show ever learn from experience and come to expect the inevitable.
Another often made comparison is to the methods used to break and control pows of overt war (as opposed to culture war). Two major differences there, that I know of. First, in an overt war, all parties are aware that the captors really don't care if the captives die whereas the troubled parent industry has to at least hold up the appearance, however implausible, that they're first interest is the welfare of the captive. At least to the parents and public and, to some extent, themselves. The captives don't have to be in on that illusion. In fact it helps the process if they're convinced that they may very well die or suffer serious permanent harm (need not be physical). That's part of the definition of torture.
The other is, of course, that POWs of overt war can buoy their spirits with the knowledge that their families back home are on their side. They never get the "Having a blast spending your college fund in Hawaii without you. Haven't missed you at all. Now comply with your captors and maybe we'll be willing to talk to you again some day."
Title: Re: the sheriff's pot plants
Post by: webdiva on September 19, 2007, 06:26:59 PM
Quote from: ""Scarlett Chiclet""
I was gonna say this.... but I got high. lol
There's a really good song about people who have this problem! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Title: Re: the sheriff's pot plants
Post by: TheWho on September 19, 2007, 08:45:32 PM
Quote from: ""Scarlett Chiclet""
Except that people placed in this sort of unscientific, contrived, extreme totalitarian experiment keep having various kinds of breakdowns and psyche troubles. And, for some damned reason, in neither case do the people running the show ever learn from experience and come to expect the inevitable.
You are talking about a very small percentage of the kids that attend. Granted maybe these kids should not have been placed at the particular school or maybe the breakdowns or psyche trouble were inevitable (with or without a program). I agree that the schools need to continue to get better at screening for students who will succeed/benefit from their program and turn others away or recommend a different alternative.
Quote
Another often made comparison is to the methods used to break and control pows of overt war (as opposed to culture war). Two major differences there, that I know of. First, in an overt war, all parties are aware that the captors really don't care if the captives die whereas the troubled parent industry has to at least hold up the appearance, however implausible, that they're first interest is the welfare of the captive. At least to the parents and public and, to some extent, themselves. The captives don't have to be in on that illusion. In fact it helps the process if they're convinced that they may very well die or suffer serious permanent harm (need not be physical). That's part of the definition of torture.
Unless the kids feel at a total loss of ever getting out alive then none of this applies. The kids are not even remotely put in a position where they feel captive, they all know if things get tough they can just walk away and keep going or if they run more than once or try to have sex with someone they are out on their ass and sent home on the next plane (POWS don’t have that option)…….of course what happens next? They could be sent to a more strict program, but more often than not the parents would try better options before placing them back into the local school program, sign them up for a new therapist and hope they can get thru it.
Quote
The other is, of course, that POWs of overt war can buoy their spirits with the knowledge that their families back home are on their side. They never get the "Having a blast spending your college fund in Hawaii without you. Haven't missed you at all. Now comply with your captors and maybe we'll be willing to talk to you again some day."
I am sure we can find the one staff member who thrives on the power position and crosses the line or the parent who cashes in the college fund and heads out to Hawaii for 14 months, but these are very extreme cases. In order to help someone you need to be able to understand (or try to understand) what they are going thru and I will be the first one to admit that understanding some of these kids during their teenage years is a challenge, but I feel I am open minded and I continue to try…… but what I do understand are the parents and it is clear that many here on fornits continue to totally miss what they are going thru, the parents are not tossing their kids into these places to be fixed and then heading out to party and I think this may be the reason for many here to have such animosity towards them.
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Anonymous on September 19, 2007, 09:14:09 PM
What the helll are you talking about, Who? Kids at Straight, AARC, Pathway, KIDS, all the wilderness programs, all the WWASP facilities but especially the foreign ones, the Christian programs like New Horizons and many, many others I could name CANNOT walk away.
They often feel as though there is no way out but death. And the aftermath affects a very significant proportion of kids-- it's impossible to measure the exact proportion without studies, but once you know that a method has a potential to harm, you don't keep practicing it, especially when there are safer, less invasive methods that ARE proven safe and effective.
Title: Breaking News: Oscar Mayer wins the culture war
Post by: Anonymous on September 19, 2007, 09:18:16 PM
My Bologna has a first name, It's O-S-C-A-R. My bologna has a second name, It's M-A-Y-E-R. Oh I love to eat it everyday, And if you ask me why say, Cause' Oscar Mayer has a way with B-O-L-O-G-N-A!!!!
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: TheWho on September 19, 2007, 09:28:49 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
What the helll are you talking about, Who? Kids at Straight, AARC, Pathway, KIDS, all the wilderness programs, all the WWASP facilities but especially the foreign ones, the Christian programs like New Horizons and many, many others I could name CANNOT walk away.
They often feel as though there is no way out but death. And the aftermath affects a very significant proportion of kids-- it's impossible to measure the exact proportion without studies, but once you know that a method has a potential to harm, you don't keep practicing it, especially when there are safer, less invasive methods that ARE proven safe and effective.
You are generalizing, I know first hand that this isnt true. My daughter decided to run away from ASR and she did. The counselors followed her and talked to her and finally decided to return. Upon her return the school called me and informed me of what happened and my daughter and I spoke that afternoon. If she ran a second time she would be kicked out....... there were many other ways to be sent home, drugs, having sex etc. So what you are saying isnt true, unless it is possible that all schools are not the same.
Title: Re: Breaking News: Oscar Mayer wins the culture war
Post by: TheWho on September 19, 2007, 10:29:13 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
My Bologna has a first name, It's O-S-C-A-R. My bologna has a second name, It's M-A-Y-E-R. Oh I love to eat it everyday, And if you ask me why say, Cause' Oscar Mayer has a way with B-O-L-O-G-N-A!!!!
No, thats not it, I think the song they were trying to think of was:
Because I got high (http://http://homepage.ntlworld.com/alan.stuart/music/lyrics/becausei.html) by Afroman
It went something like this:
I wasn't gonna give my kid sister heroin but then I got high I knew it was wrong and she was only in preschool but I was high (La da da da da da da da da) Now I am an only child and I know why (why man) yeah hey
'Cos I got high 'Cos I got high 'Cos I got high 'Cos I got high (La da da da da da da da da)
I was gonna tell my parents I needed to borrow their car until I got high I was gonna write to the parents kid that I ran over but then I got high Now the escort service is here and I know why (why man) yeah hey
'Cos I got high 'Cos I got high 'Cos I got high 'Cos I got high (La da da da da da da da da)
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Anonymous on September 19, 2007, 10:33:06 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
The kids are not even remotely put in a position where they feel captive
There were more kids who were dangers to themselves. I honestly think ASR is very lucky in that no one has succeeded in committing suicide. I can tell you first hand that for someone with major depression ASR could drive you past breaking point easily. It seemed like they pick and chose who they took seriously about being suicidal. I was not taken seriously, and had my roommate not been in the room one day, I may well have taken my life. I do not say that to evoke pity or anything else like that, and I was not using it to "manipulate" ( a favorite ASR term)
Quote
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t= ... c&start=60 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=15260&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=60) Three Springs Waygookin wrote: 1) What is self-study?
2) Describe this Escorting more please?
3) Why was a student doing the escorting of a self-harming/suicidal resident and not a staff member?
A self study was the worst of the three major consequences. (reflection, challenge, self study). You had work projects, all free time was spent at your table, facing the wall. Lots of writing assignments. Loss of all privileges. Standing during all meetings. You most likely had strict bans
Basically I had to take her back to the dorm and be with her while she gathered up her things and changed, etc. I don't remember if she showered or not. I was basically there to make sure she didn't attempt again.
I don't know why they had me do it. I was "trusted" at that point, and honestly... probably a better choice than some of the staff.
Quote
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t= ... r&start=15 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=2826&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=asr&start=15) yes, they did. to a large degree. Dean Kent (the staff mentioned in the article) was gone by the time i had arrived. (he was there in 1997, and i got to ASR in Cummington, MA on January 5th of 1998) i had heard from other students about Dean, that he was a really nice guy but fired b/c he'd called DSS on them. Brett Carey was still the Dean of Student Life when i arrived, and his wife Lisa also helped in the fitness department & was pregnant when i first arrived. They had 2 other daughters, Madison & Carly. The whole thought was a bit frightening, because when we had the 2 hour group "therapy" sessions 2 times a week, they were harsh and abusive to say the least. All of us students would be split into 2 groups, and we'd be rounded up in a circle to get screamed at, belittled and dehumanized. They called it "confrontational", although it was more like verbal abuse and intentional slaughtering. i was very afraid while i was there, as a student with an extensive sexual abuse history involving rape & incest, i was constantly the target of this slaughtering, esp. b/c i was overweight at the time. needless to say, i left ASR with anorexia some 19 months later. Brett & other students were all allowed to scream vulgarities at you, called you a "fat bitch, slut," and all. at the age of 15 i learned the word "dildo" while playing scrabble with Brett. One of my roomates claimed that Brett had forced her into sexual operations. Most of all, it was excusable for students to haze each other. It was almost looked at as funny. One Staff named Kristen Merhoff gave me funny looks and made sarcastic and patronizing comments when i'd opened up to her about my eating disorder. Later on, a staff named Amy Robichaud would scream at me for ruining my life, pushing everyone away, talking about how i was a disasterous person, unworthy of being loved. To say the least, she was an abusive person, much alike a person in the throws of an addiction like alchoholism & drug addictions, both of which she admittedly had. There was a great deal of favoritism there, even staff who seemed to want to gain the approval of certain students. The labor & sleep deprivation that was mentioned in the article is most likely in reference to the "Lifesteps". These were so called "workshops" it was mandatory for all students to attend. Staff and students would be expected to open up there deepest and most unknown secrets for the sake of "growing". It's true, there was little sleeping allowed & often i myself left feeling shamed & ridiculed. i was one of the main targets in that school the entire time i was there, a target of hazing & was even blamed for a student breaking into the med office and comsuming large quantities of my prescriptions. For the first 5 months i was there, you could litterally leave, go smoke 1/2 a pack of cigarettes, drop a couple tabs of acid, take like 5 hits off a joint come back & they wouldn't even realize it. ASR is, to say the least, a very very fucked up place. i have several more things to say, but this whole thing would take eons.
I am a former student at ASR. I was in the first peer group, 97-98. My experience there haunts me to this day. I have read many articles that refer to the "old staff" and "new staff". I cannot speak for the way ASR is run now, being 2004, but I can speak for how it was run in 97 and 98. Let me start by saying that I am not an angry, defiant kid who is trying to start trouble for ASR. I have graduated high school and am about to graduate college and enter law school. I don't get into trouble, I am a productive member of society, and want people to know the truth. We were badgered, belittled, sworn at, made to stay up all night during "life steps" and given only small rations of food, had all calls to our parents monitored by staff and had the phone hung up on us if we tried to complain to our parents about these things, scrutinized and humiliated on a daily basis. Our mail was read, staff lost their voices by yelling so loudly at us, I personally was called a "slut", a rich little Daddysgirl, a doormat, told my dad tried to buy my love with money, made to discuss personal sexual and private experiences in group sessions with other peers, made to write a ten page paper by hand about what my "issues" were, and if the staff didn't like it, I started over ( this was because I was too close to my friend there, and they put us on bans so we couldn't talk to each other). People, whomever wants to hear specific stories about all of these things, I would be more than happy to share with you!!! email me at gilligansisland636@hotmail.com (http://mailto:gilligansisland636@hotmail.com) i bet i can help you get her out of there
I also graduated from ASR very recently on August the 6th. And I can tell you right now that any kid who complained, their parents were manipulated right out of believing them. There was extreme emotional abuse there, and the only reason anyone's behavior was modified was because they were scared shitless of staying there longer or going to a worse program. We were so scared, your own friends turned against you and you couldnt trust them. The group sessions were awful. One of my friends who had issues with sleeping around was in group and the counselor in the room told her that she might as well keep a mattress tied to her back. Daily, I heard awful things about myself and everyday I was just so sad. Places like this are awful and they need to be stopped. ASR isnt even the worst of them but they all need to go.
I am a an ASR graduate. I graduated in October of 03. At the end of the program I believed that ASR had done a lot for me. Looking back I am shocked that I ever thought that. I was made to turn against my friends and turn them in for the slightest rule breaking (for example listening to music). In group we were often degraded and yelled at, supposedly to make us better. Several times I was suicidal and instead of worrying they told me I was lying and being manipulative. In one group eveyone was allowed to go around and say their judgements against everyone else things like "youre a fat slut". That group was horrible. You were scared into being good and behaving. I'm not sure why I thought this place was so great, I feel as if I was brainwashed in a way. The wilderness experience was horrible. I spent over 40 days in the outdoors being punished for any little thing we did wrong. My first day I had to run 20 minutes and when I stopped the counselers screamed at me and when i vomited they didnt care. just told me i shouldt have drank so muich water.
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Anonymous on September 20, 2007, 11:38:07 AM
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: TheWho on September 20, 2007, 04:36:41 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""Guest""
What the helll are you talking about, Who? Kids at Straight, AARC, Pathway, KIDS, all the wilderness programs, all the WWASP facilities but especially the foreign ones, the Christian programs like New Horizons and many, many others I could name CANNOT walk away.
They often feel as though there is no way out but death. And the aftermath affects a very significant proportion of kids-- it's impossible to measure the exact proportion without studies, but once you know that a method has a potential to harm, you don't keep practicing it, especially when there are safer, less invasive methods that ARE proven safe and effective.
You are generalizing, I know first hand that this isnt true. My daughter decided to run away from ASR and she did. The counselors followed her and talked to her and finally decided to return. Upon her return the school called me and informed me of what happened and my daughter and I spoke that afternoon. If she ran a second time she would be kicked out....... there were many other ways to be sent home, drugs, having sex etc. So what you are saying isnt true, unless it is possible that all schools are not the same.
Who, the experience your daughter had at ASR is not the same as all the other programs. I know that other places have fences that force you to stay and make you sleep outside, why dont you see that?
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: TheWho on September 20, 2007, 08:02:21 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""Guest""
What the helll are you talking about, Who? Kids at Straight, AARC, Pathway, KIDS, all the wilderness programs, all the WWASP facilities but especially the foreign ones, the Christian programs like New Horizons and many, many others I could name CANNOT walk away.
They often feel as though there is no way out but death. And the aftermath affects a very significant proportion of kids-- it's impossible to measure the exact proportion without studies, but once you know that a method has a potential to harm, you don't keep practicing it, especially when there are safer, less invasive methods that ARE proven safe and effective.
You are generalizing, I know first hand that this isnt true. My daughter decided to run away from ASR and she did. The counselors followed her and talked to her and finally decided to return. Upon her return the school called me and informed me of what happened and my daughter and I spoke that afternoon. If she ran a second time she would be kicked out....... there were many other ways to be sent home, drugs, having sex etc. So what you are saying isnt true, unless it is possible that all schools are not the same.
Who, the experience your daughter had at ASR is not the same as all the other programs. I know that other places have fences that force you to stay and make you sleep outside, why dont you see that?
Very hard to explain, but let me say that those other places are not indicative of the industry as a whole...they are more the exception. All types of places exist and parents have the option of choosing a place that does not have fences and has a nutrinalist, licensed therapists etc. but it is difficult to get any of that information here on fornits. People are not willing to talk about the better places here.
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Anonymous on September 20, 2007, 08:07:52 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""TheWho""
The kids are not even remotely put in a position where they feel captive
There were more kids who were dangers to themselves. I honestly think ASR is very lucky in that no one has succeeded in committing suicide. I can tell you first hand that for someone with major depression ASR could drive you past breaking point easily. It seemed like they pick and chose who they took seriously about being suicidal. I was not taken seriously, and had my roommate not been in the room one day, I may well have taken my life. I do not say that to evoke pity or anything else like that, and I was not using it to "manipulate" ( a favorite ASR term)
Quote
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t= ... c&start=60 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=15260&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=60) Three Springs Waygookin wrote: 1) What is self-study?
2) Describe this Escorting more please?
3) Why was a student doing the escorting of a self-harming/suicidal resident and not a staff member?
A self study was the worst of the three major consequences. (reflection, challenge, self study). You had work projects, all free time was spent at your table, facing the wall. Lots of writing assignments. Loss of all privileges. Standing during all meetings. You most likely had strict bans
Basically I had to take her back to the dorm and be with her while she gathered up her things and changed, etc. I don't remember if she showered or not. I was basically there to make sure she didn't attempt again.
I don't know why they had me do it. I was "trusted" at that point, and honestly... probably a better choice than some of the staff.
Quote
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t= ... r&start=15 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=2826&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=asr&start=15) yes, they did. to a large degree. Dean Kent (the staff mentioned in the article) was gone by the time i had arrived. (he was there in 1997, and i got to ASR in Cummington, MA on January 5th of 1998) i had heard from other students about Dean, that he was a really nice guy but fired b/c he'd called DSS on them. Brett Carey was still the Dean of Student Life when i arrived, and his wife Lisa also helped in the fitness department & was pregnant when i first arrived. They had 2 other daughters, Madison & Carly. The whole thought was a bit frightening, because when we had the 2 hour group "therapy" sessions 2 times a week, they were harsh and abusive to say the least. All of us students would be split into 2 groups, and we'd be rounded up in a circle to get screamed at, belittled and dehumanized. They called it "confrontational", although it was more like verbal abuse and intentional slaughtering. i was very afraid while i was there, as a student with an extensive sexual abuse history involving rape & incest, i was constantly the target of this slaughtering, esp. b/c i was overweight at the time. needless to say, i left ASR with anorexia some 19 months later. Brett & other students were all allowed to scream vulgarities at you, called you a "fat bitch, slut," and all. at the age of 15 i learned the word "dildo" while playing scrabble with Brett. One of my roomates claimed that Brett had forced her into sexual operations. Most of all, it was excusable for students to haze each other. It was almost looked at as funny. One Staff named Kristen Merhoff gave me funny looks and made sarcastic and patronizing comments when i'd opened up to her about my eating disorder. Later on, a staff named Amy Robichaud would scream at me for ruining my life, pushing everyone away, talking about how i was a disasterous person, unworthy of being loved. To say the least, she was an abusive person, much alike a person in the throws of an addiction like alchoholism & drug addictions, both of which she admittedly had. There was a great deal of favoritism there, even staff who seemed to want to gain the approval of certain students. The labor & sleep deprivation that was mentioned in the article is most likely in reference to the "Lifesteps". These were so called "workshops" it was mandatory for all students to attend. Staff and students would be expected to open up there deepest and most unknown secrets for the sake of "growing". It's true, there was little sleeping allowed & often i myself left feeling shamed & ridiculed. i was one of the main targets in that school the entire time i was there, a target of hazing & was even blamed for a student breaking into the med office and comsuming large quantities of my prescriptions. For the first 5 months i was there, you could litterally leave, go smoke 1/2 a pack of cigarettes, drop a couple tabs of acid, take like 5 hits off a joint come back & they wouldn't even realize it. ASR is, to say the least, a very very fucked up place. i have several more things to say, but this whole thing would take eons.
I am a former student at ASR. I was in the first peer group, 97-98. My experience there haunts me to this day. I have read many articles that refer to the "old staff" and "new staff". I cannot speak for the way ASR is run now, being 2004, but I can speak for how it was run in 97 and 98. Let me start by saying that I am not an angry, defiant kid who is trying to start trouble for ASR. I have graduated high school and am about to graduate college and enter law school. I don't get into trouble, I am a productive member of society, and want people to know the truth. We were badgered, belittled, sworn at, made to stay up all night during "life steps" and given only small rations of food, had all calls to our parents monitored by staff and had the phone hung up on us if we tried to complain to our parents about these things, scrutinized and humiliated on a daily basis. Our mail was read, staff lost their voices by yelling so loudly at us, I personally was called a "slut", a rich little Daddysgirl, a doormat, told my dad tried to buy my love with money, made to discuss personal sexual and private experiences in group sessions with other peers, made to write a ten page paper by hand about what my "issues" were, and if the staff didn't like it, I started over ( this was because I was too close to my friend there, and they put us on bans so we couldn't talk to each other). People, whomever wants to hear specific stories about all of these things, I would be more than happy to share with you!!! email me at gilligansisland636@hotmail.com (http://mailto:gilligansisland636@hotmail.com) i bet i can help you get her out of there
I also graduated from ASR very recently on August the 6th. And I can tell you right now that any kid who complained, their parents were manipulated right out of believing them. There was extreme emotional abuse there, and the only reason anyone's behavior was modified was because they were scared shitless of staying there longer or going to a worse program. We were so scared, your own friends turned against you and you couldnt trust them. The group sessions were awful. One of my friends who had issues with sleeping around was in group and the counselor in the room told her that she might as well keep a mattress tied to her back. Daily, I heard awful things about myself and everyday I was just so sad. Places like this are awful and they need to be stopped. ASR isnt even the worst of them but they all need to go.
I am a an ASR graduate. I graduated in October of 03. At the end of the program I believed that ASR had done a lot for me. Looking back I am shocked that I ever thought that. I was made to turn against my friends and turn them in for the slightest rule breaking (for example listening to music). In group we were often degraded and yelled at, supposedly to make us better. Several times I was suicidal and instead of worrying they told me I was lying and being manipulative. In one group eveyone was allowed to go around and say their judgements against everyone else things like "youre a fat slut". That group was horrible. You were scared into being good and behaving. I'm not sure why I thought this place was so great, I feel as if I was brainwashed in a way. The wilderness experience was horrible. I spent over 40 days in the outdoors being punished for any little thing we did wrong. My first day I had to run 20 minutes and when I stopped the counselers screamed at me and when i vomited they didnt care. just told me i shouldt have drank so muich water.
I believe these people who were at the facility more than TheWho.
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: TheWho on September 20, 2007, 08:18:59 PM
Thewho said: "Very hard to explain"
I say, we have all night. I am up half the night as it is and I will wait for your answer. It sounds like you dont want to listen.
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Anonymous on September 20, 2007, 08:27:34 PM
I wonder if theWho is fat. I bet he is.
Title: Re: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Anonymous on September 20, 2007, 09:03:22 PM
Quote from: ""Wandering Waygookin""
I have zero faith in the ability of legislature in the area of passing effective regulations against TBS programmes. I've seen their ability to change to meet the new circumstances first hand. Congress will put on a big song and dance whilst programmes snigger and make a few superficial changes.
My thoughts on this calls for a long term war against the very roots of the problems. Or at least the part of the problem I believe that can be addressed in the area of the incredible ignorance that exists in our population to this very day. This is despite the fact that numerous websites, forums, books, and now movies exist.
Time and persistence will help reduce this ignorance in our society. Thoughts ideas and suggestions are being called for to address this matter. I've already started on a writing project of my own, put on hold due to my current vacation, but it will be finished.
IDEas biatches..
and not just Oh lets let Maia deal with it.
come on people.. takes an entire damn army not just one soldier.
Chain letters.
Title: Re: Winning The Culture War
Post by: TheWho on September 20, 2007, 10:36:11 PM
Quote from: ""Wandering Waygookin""
I have zero faith in the ability of legislature in the area of passing effective regulations against TBS programmes. I've seen their ability to change to meet the new circumstances first hand. Congress will put on a big song and dance whilst programmes snigger and make a few superficial changes.
My thoughts on this calls for a long term war against the very roots of the problems. Or at least the part of the problem I believe that can be addressed in the area of the incredible ignorance that exists in our population to this very day. This is despite the fact that numerous websites, forums, books, and now movies exist.
Time and persistence will help reduce this ignorance in our society. Thoughts ideas and suggestions are being called for to address this matter. I've already started on a writing project of my own, put on hold due to my current vacation, but it will be finished.
IDEas biatches..
and not just Oh lets let Maia deal with it.
come on people.. takes an entire damn army not just one soldier.
How do you wage war against something that is not defined? What are we waging war against? Parents? Abuse? TBS? Wilderness? We need to define the problem first... in writting...... What is the problem...lets come up with a list of problems or potential problems that need to be addressed...
Title: Re: Winning The Culture War
Post by: 3xsaSeedling on September 20, 2007, 10:40:44 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Chain letters.
BRILLIANT!!
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Anonymous on September 20, 2007, 11:07:11 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
What is the problem...
The fact that you don't know, even after three thousand posts, means you're part of it. Go back to your playground, hmm? The adults are busy now.
Chain letters are excellent because they propagate among those who are stupid enough to spread chain letters, those people being the primary targets of this industry.
We don't even need to exaggerate or lie. Find something particularly nasty on ISAC and copypaste that. Hopefully it'll get featured on Snopes with a nice big True.[/color] on top.
Title: Re: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Anonymous on September 21, 2007, 08:30:24 AM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
What are we waging war against? Parents? Abuse? TBS? Wilderness? .
Parental Abuse in TBS and Wilderness.
Just leave out your question marks next time and you got it!
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Anonymous on September 22, 2007, 11:45:48 AM
So who's going to write this? Remember, chain letter email is best sent to people they know, so hopefully the people sending it out will have lots of people in their address book.
And remember, it has to be written in a style that gives it legs. Post any and all first drafts here.
I'm bad at this shit, but I'll do it if no one else steps up.
It doesn't matter if Who or other programmies see it, because they have no idea who you're going to send it to and they won't see it again until it spreads.
Title: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Anonymous on September 24, 2007, 11:38:26 PM
Some good viral anti-program videos might do the trick since they sometimes go national and get mainstream news attention.
Title: Re: Winning The Culture War
Post by: psy on September 16, 2008, 04:06:19 PM
bump
Title: Re: Winning The Culture War
Post by: Anonymous on September 16, 2008, 07:30:53 PM
Quote from: "Ursus"
A MAJOR obstacle in trying to oust the Troubled Teen Industry has to do with the fact that it is a real money maker. This has resulted in its being absorbed by the more pervasive, prolific, and highly entrenched substance abuse industry. Witness CRC Health Corporation's acquisition of Aspen Educational Group in September/October of 2006. Prior to branching out in the Residential Treatment arena, CRC Health was, and still remains, perhaps the largest non-government substance abuse provider in the United States. "Non-government" may be in name only. The former Director of the White House Office of Drug Control Policy, General Barry McCaffrey, is a prolific spokesperson for CRC Health's eGetgoing project, and on CRC's Board of Directors.
The financial markets have noticed, and are now involved in the buying and selling of these companys and institutions as viable, and lucrative, commodities. Witness Bain Capital LLC's acquisition of CRC Health Corp. for $720 Million, a deal announced in October of 2005, and finalized in February of 2006. Bain Capital, incidentally, was co-founded in 1984 by presidential candidate Mitt Romney. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bain_Capital (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bain_Capital)
Legislation ain't gonna do shit when the seemingly sanctioned sources of finance are involved on this level. Welcome to the New World Order.
Bumping 101
They key in bumping threads, is to include relevant posts in your bumps.