Fornits

Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Anonymous on September 02, 2007, 12:01:05 PM

Title: How to help program staff quit their job faster!
Post by: Anonymous on September 02, 2007, 12:01:05 PM
Tips on how to treat Program staff. Thank this staff for the advice. The kid fucked this motherfucker up and the staff left, this is good strategy folks.

Quote

I worked at Youth Care for 2.5 years as a line staff and also as a 'key' staff.  I'm easily identifiable - I was assaulted by a student and required facial reconstruction surgery - and any time I post my old 'friends' who still work there are told to have no contact with me, so I know I'm pushing some serious buttons.

The night I was attacked there were not enough staff on shift, a common occurence at this program.  There were two staff assigned to a house with 14 students - I was only there to finish up paperwork from the day shift.  The student that attacked me was able to walk away from his group, sneak up behind me, and when I hung up the phone he started swinging.  Another student was also able to walk away from his group to come watch.

You want first hand knowledge?  I would come in to work in the mornings and watch the graveyard staff unplug their xbox/ps2/dvd players/laptops, hurry and check all the boxes on the log sheets signifying that they checked the students every 15 mins for signs of life (breathing, movement, etc...) and leave.  Sometimes the graves were still asleep when I got there (they weren't supposed to sleep).  This student was sleeping out of his room which, according to our training, he should have been checked on every 15 mins.  If they were checking, how did the student's body proceed through rigor and livor mortis before the staff even noticed he was deceased?

I finally quit in disgust when the student who watched me get assaulted was re-admitted to the programm despite my concerns for my own safety or the safety of others (he had a history of sexually acting out/flashing female students).

Programs in Utah, and I worked in a few until I gave up and moved to adult corrections, rely on a cheap student labor market and the mystique that 'Utah' is a great, safe place.  Youth Care is like most other programs - profit driven, not care driven.

I worked with some great staff, I tried to be a good staff.  Too bad the administrators can't be more like some of the staff they're fortunate enough to have on the payroll.


This has been also confirmed with the Moab Utah program when the kids hit the staff with frying pan and tied them up. It all works!
Title: How to help program staff quit their job faster!
Post by: Anonymous on September 02, 2007, 12:29:41 PM
Does anybody know this staff's name?

Can someone post a picture if you find one?

Thanks!
Title: How to help program staff quit their job faster!
Post by: Anonymous on September 02, 2007, 02:58:56 PM
hehe kids tried this at HLA quite a few times. both times i saw it it involved the biggest kid, but the staff managed to subdue him every time. when most of the staff are either military, ex-military, or very overweight, it's kinda hard to overpower anyone.

although there are always a few oompah loompahs you can target. with the average american diet you're bound to get a few pear-shaped midgets among the overweight bunch.
Title: How to help program staff quit their job faster!
Post by: Anonymous on September 03, 2007, 12:06:56 AM
Advocating violence is a spectacularly bad idea.
 1. The kid is likely to be overpowered and badly hurt
2. The kid is likely to get a criminal record
3. The kid is likely to face worse retribution from the program
4. The kid could end up at an even harsher program.
5. if the staff leaves they may be replaced with someone bigger and tougher
Title: I agree - bad idea
Post by: Covergaard on September 03, 2007, 12:50:49 AM
We may ask ourselves what kind of people, who works at RTC.

First there is the local ones. A lot of towns are located in isolated places where they are hit by development in the society so there is no jobs to get in their area. They can join the military and go to Iraq if they are fit or stay unemployed.

Suddenly a RTC is founded in the area and of course they take the job. Not so much for the children, but to feed their own family. As a former colleague said: "It would be a nice shop if it was not for all the customers". So the night staff sleeps instead of monitor the children and sometime one of them dies from illness or commit suicide. They are not bad people, because they do the best they can and it is nothing at all but they are not better. Of course they should not have been hired in the first place but who would say to an employer "Thank you for the job offer, but I am not good enough" when the family are hungry back home.

Second there are those born too good for this world who believe that the children should be helped. They will end up dissapointed. They will leave after a while because they find out that it is all about the money. Either they choose another line of work or join the first category after a while.

Third there is those people who should have worked as a drill sergeant with adult people. They do not know the word sympathy. They should not be allowed around children - not even their own. The best place for them are the jail as inmates.

That is why I do not think that violence is the answer. The chance that they hit the wrong type of staff is too high and they risk get a record or spend time in jail.

Instead we should continune to document all the facilities and perhaps copy the contents of fornits Wiki to several places for two reasons:

1) so parents can see that such places can not help their children. Instead they should go to their local politicians so local solutions become available.
2) so former victims can find their survivor group, where they can find children who have been through the same program and perhaps find support for their situation.

And as a final precaution: Putting up posters where teenagers hang out - even the high school, if it can be done. Here is a poster:

http://www.secretprisonsforteens.dk/files/missing.pdf (http://www.secretprisonsforteens.dk/files/missing.pdf)

Violence is not the answer. Some staff-members use plenty of it. Does it help?
Title: How to help program staff quit their job faster!
Post by: Mummie on September 03, 2007, 01:14:37 PM
Violence is never the answer.  Change the system, stop the violence.
Title: How to help program staff quit their job faster!
Post by: Che Gookin on September 03, 2007, 01:16:27 PM
Selective application of violence always has a place in every strategy. I'll elaborate more, and put out a request for suggestions, on the Escaper's guide thread.
Title: Re: How to help program staff quit their job faster!
Post by: puck on September 03, 2007, 03:38:50 PM
Quote from: Guest
Tips on how to treat Program staff. Thank this staff for the advice. The kid fucked this motherfucker up and the staff left, this is good strategy folks.

Quote


Wow - you guys are pathetic.  Lets advocate violence as the answer to life's problems.  This student is now being prosecuted as an adult.  What is the reason you post on sites like these?  We all know you think you're clever and that you somehow stand for something.  What positive suggestions have you made?

I was already planning on leaving before I got hit.  

It's amazing how most see it as my fault I got hit - that I got what was comming to me, or that I'm looking for sympathy.  The reason I posted my experience was to point out a typical problem, understaffing.  

Interesting question, to those that advocate violence.  You want to predict my response in this situation and guess what happened to the student?
Title: How to help program staff quit their job faster!
Post by: Anonymous on September 03, 2007, 03:47:45 PM
Puck is a good guy!!!! He was always nice enough to bring students home for visits and to play. He was a nice staff you need to leave him alone!!!
Title: How to help program staff quit their job faster!
Post by: Anonymous on September 03, 2007, 04:01:52 PM
Puck:
If you are a real ex-staffer; then I think your comments about under-staffing are valid and important.  Especially for Pitbull Mom, who is searching for answers to why her son did not receive emergency medical care; and was allowed to die, for what is apparently medical negligence.

If your observations are correct: and the night staff possibly did not check on sick children as was required -every 15 minutes, as you stated- then perhaps; you could come forward and offer evidence on Pitbull's behalf?

Your observations and experience seems to be what this mother is looking for to answer the question: why her son was denied emergency medical care.
Was it a question of under-staffing? Lack of training?  Lack of supervision of staff?
Perhaps you can communicate with Pitbull Mom by Private Message.
Personally, I detest these programs, and the lack of oversight by Utah officials, and what I assume will be a cover-up of this boy's death.
But I respect your offer to discuss this facility from your point of view as a staff worker.

I forgot to sign in.  Joyce Harris
Title: Re: How to help program staff quit their job faster!
Post by: Anonymous on September 03, 2007, 04:02:03 PM
Quote from: ""puck""
[
Wow - you guys are pathetic.



Should we put this in with the rest of them?  deadinsaneorinjail, pathetic losers, disgruntled kids.  What have I missed?
Title: How to help program staff quit their job faster!
Post by: Anonymous on September 03, 2007, 05:00:23 PM
Quote
Can someone post a picture if you find one?


Found it!

(http://http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/6338/face9pl.jpg)
Title: How to help program staff quit their job faster!
Post by: Anonymous on September 03, 2007, 05:05:27 PM
That's absolutely to most disgusting thing I have ever seen.  Is this for real? :o
Title: Re: How to help program staff quit their job faster!
Post by: Che Gookin on September 03, 2007, 07:46:17 PM
Quote from: "puck
It's amazing how most see it as my fault I got hit - that I got what was comming to me, or that I'm looking for sympathy.  The reason I posted my experience was to point out a typical problem, understaffing.  

[/quote


It was your fault that you got busted up. Everything that happens on shift in your unit or group or whatever you call it at Youthcare is completely your responsibility.

I worked with kids who I know where far more violent and was never attacked directly. I had to dodge a few punches, a shovel, numerous rocks, branches, dirt clods, and other crap while breaking fights up, but never was I attacked.

Accept the fact that the attack on you more than likely could have been prevented had you had the experience or the training, but stop insinuating that it wasn't your responsibility.

It makes you sound like a whining cunt.

If that is how you roll then go post on Cafety.
Title: How to help program staff quit their job faster!
Post by: hanzomon4 on September 03, 2007, 08:48:04 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Puck:
If you are a real ex-staffer; then I think your comments about under-staffing are valid and important.  Especially for Pitbull Mom, who is searching for answers to why her son did not receive emergency medical care; and was allowed to die, for what is apparently medical negligence.

If your observations are correct: and the night staff possibly did not check on sick children as was required -every 15 minutes, as you stated- then perhaps; you could come forward and offer evidence on Pitbull's behalf?

Your observations and experience seems to be what this mother is looking for to answer the question: why her son was denied emergency medical care.
Was it a question of under-staffing? Lack of training?  Lack of supervision of staff?
Perhaps you can communicate with Pitbull Mom by Private Message.
Personally, I detest these programs, and the lack of oversight by Utah officials, and what I assume will be a cover-up of this boy's death.
But I respect your offer to discuss this facility from your point of view as a staff worker.

I forgot to sign in.  Joyce Harris
:tup:
Title: How to help program staff quit their job faster!
Post by: Anonymous on September 03, 2007, 10:40:59 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote
Can someone post a picture if you find one?

Found it!

(http://http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/6338/face9pl.jpg)


 :rofl:
Title: How to help program staff quit their job faster!
Post by: webdiva on September 03, 2007, 11:10:06 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote
Can someone post a picture if you find one?

Found it!

(http://http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/6338/face9pl.jpg)


oh my fucking god. k this image is now ingrained in my brain for life. there is no escape. thank you very much! lol jesus.
Title: Re: How to help program staff quit their job faster!
Post by: Anonymous on September 04, 2007, 08:00:17 AM
[/quote]

It was your fault that you got busted up. Everything that happens on shift in your unit or group or whatever you call it at Youthcare is completely your responsibility.

I worked with kids who I know where far more violent and was never attacked directly. I had to dodge a few punches, a shovel, numerous rocks, branches, dirt clods, and other crap while breaking fights up, but never was I attacked.

Accept the fact that the attack on you more than likely could have been prevented had you had the experience or the training, but stop insinuating that it wasn't your responsibility.

It makes you sound like a whining cunt.

If that is how you roll then go post on Cafety.[/quote]

My point is that I wasn't on shift - there were only two staff on-shift to supervise the 14 students.  I was there finishing up a medical report from the previous shift and taking care of the phone calls to deal with the level drop of this particular student.  

As for my experience - I've worked many places and delt with many violent kids.  Usually when a staff or another student is attacked it is usually a lack of staff in place, as was the case here.

Maybe you should accept the fact that this person chose to sneak up on someone and throw the punches.  I sure didn't swing his fist for him.  I have no problem accepting responsibility for things I do.
Title: How to help program staff quit their job faster!
Post by: Anonymous on September 04, 2007, 08:08:26 AM
Quote from: ""hanzomon4""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Puck:
If you are a real ex-staffer; then I think your comments about under-staffing are valid and important.  Especially for Pitbull Mom, who is searching for answers to why her son did not receive emergency medical care; and was allowed to die, for what is apparently medical negligence.

If your observations are correct: and the night staff possibly did not check on sick children as was required -every 15 minutes, as you stated- then perhaps; you could come forward and offer evidence on Pitbull's behalf?

Your observations and experience seems to be what this mother is looking for to answer the question: why her son was denied emergency medical care.
Was it a question of under-staffing? Lack of training?  Lack of supervision of staff?
Perhaps you can communicate with Pitbull Mom by Private Message.
Personally, I detest these programs, and the lack of oversight by Utah officials, and what I assume will be a cover-up of this boy's death.
But I respect your offer to discuss this facility from your point of view as a staff worker.

I forgot to sign in.  Joyce Harris
:tup:


As I mentioned before, I am more than willing to share any experiences or insights I have that would help someone out.  These personal attacks on me just because I happened to work at a RTC are pointless - you know nothing about me yet you judge me?  

Pitbull Mom, or anyone else: if there is information or anything else I can help with please contact me, I'll do whatever I can to help you out.
Title: How to help program staff quit their job faster!
Post by: Che Gookin on September 05, 2007, 07:59:51 PM
Quote
My point is that I wasn't on shift - there were only two staff on-shift to supervise the 14 students. I was there finishing up a medical report from the previous shift and taking care of the phone calls to deal with the level drop of this particular student.

As for my experience - I've worked many places and delt with many violent kids. Usually when a staff or another student is attacked it is usually a lack of staff in place, as was the case here.

Maybe you should accept the fact that this person chose to sneak up on someone and throw the punches. I sure didn't swing his fist for him. I have no problem accepting responsibility for things I do.


Your story appears to be changing with time. Interesting.
Title: How to help program staff quit their job faster!
Post by: Anonymous on September 05, 2007, 08:08:03 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""hanzomon4""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Puck:
If you are a real ex-staffer; then I think your comments about under-staffing are valid and important.  Especially for Pitbull Mom, who is searching for answers to why her son did not receive emergency medical care; and was allowed to die, for what is apparently medical negligence.

If your observations are correct: and the night staff possibly did not check on sick children as was required -every 15 minutes, as you stated- then perhaps; you could come forward and offer evidence on Pitbull's behalf?

Your observations and experience seems to be what this mother is looking for to answer the question: why her son was denied emergency medical care.
Was it a question of under-staffing? Lack of training?  Lack of supervision of staff?
Perhaps you can communicate with Pitbull Mom by Private Message.
Personally, I detest these programs, and the lack of oversight by Utah officials, and what I assume will be a cover-up of this boy's death.
But I respect your offer to discuss this facility from your point of view as a staff worker.

I forgot to sign in.  Joyce Harris
:tup:

As I mentioned before, I am more than willing to share any experiences or insights I have that would help someone out.  These personal attacks on me just because I happened to work at a RTC are pointless - you know nothing about me yet you judge me?  

Pitbull Mom, or anyone else: if there is information or anything else I can help with please contact me, I'll do whatever I can to help you out.



Joyce brings up some good points.  Are you going to address them or continue to ignore them?
Title: How to help program staff quit their job faster!
Post by: Anonymous on September 05, 2007, 08:08:52 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Pitbull Mom, or anyone else: if there is information or anything else I can help with please contact me, I'll do whatever I can to help you out.



I need to know why you quit your job you really could of changed the industry from the inside. I hate to see another quitter, thanks for nothing.
Title: How to help program staff quit their job faster!
Post by: Anonymous on September 05, 2007, 09:46:27 PM
Your story appears to be changing with time. Interesting.[/quote]

In what way is my story changing?  

What I find interesting is the attacks on me.  I guess I am unsure as to the purpose of this site.  I thought it was a place to post concerns about treatment programs and ideas on how to change them or hold them accountable.  

I came here to post my experiences not as a ploy to gain sympathy but to provide a personal point of view on problems I have seen while working at an RTC.  I've used some of what I have read here to contact the state AG who placed me in contact with the DHS licensing team.  Hopefully someone there will pay attention to what I have to say - the local media and 'JayCo' sure didn't seem interested in my complaints.

I didn't come here for abuse so this is it.  I'm sure one of you will post one of your 'faggot' pictures or call me a fucking crybaby or something equally pointless.  What do you hope to accomplish by this - How are you promoting change, why would any other former or current staff want to expose themselves to this?  To me you're equating yourself with the pricks I used to work for.

If you have positive suggestions on how I can help or have any real questions about my experiences at Youth Care, Discovery Academy, or ARTEC, then please send me a message and I'll respond.
Title: How to help program staff quit their job faster!
Post by: Anonymous on September 05, 2007, 09:47:28 PM
Your story appears to be changing with time. Interesting.[/quote]

In what way is my story changing?  

What I find interesting is the attacks on me.  I guess I am unsure as to the purpose of this site.  I thought it was a place to post concerns about treatment programs and ideas on how to change them or hold them accountable.  

I came here to post my experiences not as a ploy to gain sympathy but to provide a personal point of view on problems I have seen while working at an RTC.  I've used some of what I have read here to contact the state AG who placed me in contact with the DHS licensing team.  Hopefully someone there will pay attention to what I have to say - the local media and 'JayCo' sure didn't seem interested in my complaints.

I didn't come here for abuse so this is it.  I'm sure one of you will post one of your 'faggot' pictures or call me a fucking crybaby or something equally pointless.  What do you hope to accomplish by this - How are you promoting change, why would any other former or current staff want to expose themselves to this?  To me you're equating yourself with the pricks I used to work for.

If you have positive suggestions on how I can help or have any real questions about my experiences at Youth Care, Discovery Academy, or ARTEC, then please send me a message and I'll respond.
Title: How to help program staff quit their job faster!
Post by: Anonymous on September 05, 2007, 09:54:53 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
If you have positive suggestions on how I can help


Turn yourself over to Science. We must study the stupidity that leads to program staff.
Title: Why did I quit?
Post by: puck on September 05, 2007, 09:56:21 PM
Quote from: ""Program Mom""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Pitbull Mom, or anyone else: if there is information or anything else I can help with please contact me, I'll do whatever I can to help you out.


I need to know why you quit your job you really could of changed the industry from the inside. I hate to see another quitter, thanks for nothing.


Why did I quit my job?  I was constantly being 'written up' for questioning my supervisors, tired of working un-safe under-staffed shifts, worried that something like this would happen and not knowing how I would deal with a student that I knew (many of who I was pretty close too - some still keep in contact) was seriously injured or dead.  You can call me a coward or whatever, I don't care.  I had to take care of my life, otherwise what good would I be at helping others?

Thanks for nothing?  You're welcome.  Thanks for judging me without even knowing me.
Title: How to help program staff quit their job faster!
Post by: Anonymous on September 05, 2007, 09:57:40 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
What I find interesting is the attacks on me.  I guess I am unsure as to the purpose of this site.  I thought it was a place to post concerns about treatment programs and ideas on how to change them or hold them accountable.  

I came here to post my experiences not as a ploy to gain sympathy but to provide a personal point of view on problems I have seen while working at an RTC.  I've used some of what I have read here to contact the state AG who placed me in contact with the DHS licensing team.  Hopefully someone there will pay attention to what I have to say - the local media and 'JayCo' sure didn't seem interested in my complaints.

I didn't come here for abuse so this is it.  I'm sure one of you will post one of your 'faggot' pictures or call me a fucking crybaby or something equally pointless.  What do you hope to accomplish by this - How are you promoting change, why would any other former or current staff want to expose themselves to this?  To me you're equating yourself with the pricks I used to work for.

If you have positive suggestions on how I can help or have any real questions about my experiences at Youth Care, Discovery Academy, or ARTEC, then please send me a message and I'll respond.


Think of who you're dealing with here.  Most of us are victims of some program or another.  Deal with what's thrown at you.  The kids have no choice, you can leave any time.

Personally, I'd like to see all forms of forced or coerced therapy wiped off the map.  I'd like to see all TBS, Wilderness Camps, Boot Camps, RTCs and the rest shut down and the executives held accountable for the abuses done in the name of treatment.

But that's just me.
Title: Re: Why did I quit?
Post by: Anonymous on September 05, 2007, 09:59:50 PM
Quote from: ""puck""
Thanks for judging me without even knowing me.



How do you think the kids feel?
Title: Re: Why did I quit?
Post by: Anonymous on September 05, 2007, 10:01:33 PM
Quote from: ""puck""
Quote from: ""Program Mom""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Pitbull Mom, or anyone else: if there is information or anything else I can help with please contact me, I'll do whatever I can to help you out.


I need to know why you quit your job you really could of changed the industry from the inside. I hate to see another quitter, thanks for nothing.

Why did I quit my job?  I was constantly being 'written up' for questioning my supervisors, tired of working un-safe under-staffed shifts, worried that something like this would happen and not knowing how I would deal with a student that I knew (many of who I was pretty close too - some still keep in contact) was seriously injured or dead.  You can call me a coward or whatever, I don't care.  I had to take care of my life, otherwise what good would I be at helping others?

Thanks for nothing?  You're welcome.  Thanks for judging me without even knowing me.


You could of at least documented these things before leaving, for what sound like selfish reasons. :roll:

Now you are just another voice in this debate, our word as parents and our abused children, against the program's.

We need proof beyond testimony at this point. Otherwise they can paint you as disgruntled staff, which frankly, you come across as anyways.

Just A Program Mom
Title: reply for Joyce
Post by: puck on September 05, 2007, 10:02:17 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""hanzomon4""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Puck:
If you are a real ex-staffer; then I think your comments about under-staffing are valid and important.  Especially for Pitbull Mom, who is searching for answers to why her son did not receive emergency medical care; and was allowed to die, for what is apparently medical negligence.

If your observations are correct: and the night staff possibly did not check on sick children as was required -every 15 minutes, as you stated- then perhaps; you could come forward and offer evidence on Pitbull's behalf?

Your observations and experience seems to be what this mother is looking for to answer the question: why her son was denied emergency medical care.
Was it a question of under-staffing? Lack of training?  Lack of supervision of staff?
Perhaps you can communicate with Pitbull Mom by Private Message.
Personally, I detest these programs, and the lack of oversight by Utah officials, and what I assume will be a cover-up of this boy's death.
But I respect your offer to discuss this facility from your point of view as a staff worker.

I forgot to sign in.  Joyce Harris
:tup:



Joyce brings up some good points.  Are you going to address them or continue to ignore them?


Sorry, didn't mean to ignore any points.  Yes, I believe that this incident was a result of the following: understaffing (two graveyard staff in a house with up to 15 kids, trying to make meals for the next day, watching movies, etc...), a lack of training (with up to 45 students on campus at a time I feel a medical staff should be on shift 24/7), and a lack of supervision (I knew supervisors that wouldn't go in because they might catch one of their staff doing something wrong and then they'd have to do something about it.)

Pitbull mom has contacted me and I willingly provided her my name and contact info.
Title: How to help program staff quit their job faster!
Post by: Anonymous on September 05, 2007, 11:06:45 PM
Quote
I didn't come here for abuse


Why not? It's what you got paid for. It's our way of welcoming you, because it should be familiar territory. What's the problem?

The fact that you still take things like 'level drops' as if they were valid in the least means that you have a long, hard road of realization ahead.
Title: How to help program staff quit their job faster!
Post by: Anonymous on September 06, 2007, 11:40:14 PM
N a big fuck you to all of you who are criticizing puck.
I know him personally and I have had experience with him and other staff at YCI.
ITS A FUCKING TRAGEDY THAT THE KID DIED. We got it. People die all the time. How are any of us to know that his parents would have gotten to him n time (not implying bad parenting in anyway)
but to take it out on one of the best staff that I had the pleasure to deal with there... and accusing him of cowardice it ridiculous.
The people who were there for the kids made it obvious they were and puck was one of them. There were always problems with understaffing and everything else he said...
SHIT HAPPENS IN PLACES... kids get thrown off horses and break necks. They slipe on ice and break bones... or fall over someone and break knees. The kids are responisble for their own damn experience in these places... the staff are responsible to make it as safe as possible. That still leaves room for shit to happen its life and none of us are gods.
And he does not get paid to sit here and take abuse... he get paid to try to help people see the potential they have
Title: How to help program staff quit their job faster!
Post by: Anonymous on September 06, 2007, 11:55:08 PM
If there was any post on Fornits that would decisively push the parents in the "oh HELL NO" direction, the above post is it.

Read it thoroughly. Read the subtext. It'll tell you far more than you ever wanted to know.
Title: How to help program staff quit their job faster!
Post by: Anonymous on September 07, 2007, 12:27:34 AM
Quote
People die all the time

Yes, too many in this industry, with 0 accountablity.

Quote
There were always problems with understaffing

With the amount of money per child, if Staff were paid a decent wage and
they added more staff, and were not so greedy, the youth would not be dieing would they.

Quote
kids get thrown off horses and break necks. They slipe on ice and break bones... or fall over someone and break knees.

Yeah and kids get sick and beg for help, and are accused of being liers and manipulatiors, and they die.  Ps. that is not a accident...it is negligence, and inhuman treatment.

Quote
The kids are responisble for their own damn experience in these places... the staff are responsible to make it as safe

No it is not the kids responsiblity, it is the staff, and the people who are in charge of the welfare of the kid, in which the parents have entrusted them to do.


Quote
... he get paid to try to help people


so true, not play xbox.
Title: How to help program staff quit their job faster!
Post by: Anonymous on September 07, 2007, 03:23:26 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
SHIT HAPPENS IN PLACES...


Imagine a greiving parent asking the program staff how on earth did my son die here? Now imagine a program employee saying something like "shit happens..."
Title: How to help program staff quit their job faster!
Post by: Froderik on September 07, 2007, 09:20:04 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""
SHIT HAPPENS IN PLACES...

Imagine a greiving parent asking the program staff how on earth did my son die here? Now imagine a program employee saying something like "shit happens..."

This is truly appalling. I can't believe that post was for real. C'mon, someone tell me they posted as guest to stir up shit..
TSW? Niles? Anyone?
Title: How to help program staff quit their job faster!
Post by: Che Gookin on September 07, 2007, 09:39:40 AM
Quote from: ""Froderik""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""
SHIT HAPPENS IN PLACES...

Imagine a greiving parent asking the program staff how on earth did my son die here? Now imagine a program employee saying something like "shit happens..."
This is truly appalling. I can't believe that post was for real. C'mon, someone tell me they posted as guest to stir up shit..
TSW? Niles? Anyone?



 :-? nope not me dude.
Title: How to help program staff quit their job faster!
Post by: Anonymous on September 07, 2007, 10:51:26 AM
Would of been a good question to ask before sending child away.
Title: How to help program staff quit their job faster!
Post by: TheWho on September 07, 2007, 11:26:19 AM
Quote
This is truly appalling. I can't believe that post was for real….


Com’on people, we have all heard a lot more harsher things said as a reality check here on fornits.  But it usually directed towards parents or programmies.

Bottom line is choosing a private boarding school or Wilderness camp for an at-risk child is far safer than leaving them in the public sector.  This is not my opinion…… it is fact.  The numbers show this overwhelmingly, it is just difficult for many to swallow here.

Someone posted earlier that in the span of 4 decades 536 kids died in the industry
“536


Restraint: 236
Dehydration: 144
Beating: 98
Suicide: 38â€
Title: How to help program staff quit their job faster!
Post by: Anne Bonney on September 07, 2007, 11:35:49 AM
Who you are one sick mother fucker.  Why are you here?  How much money are YOU making off this sick little industry.  What interest do YOU have in seeing it grow?

At least have the BALLS to let us all know what the hell you're here for.  And don't give me that shit about facts, because you wouldn 't know one if it bit you in the ass.  


WHY ARE YOU HERE???
Title: How to help program staff quit their job faster!
Post by: Anonymous on September 07, 2007, 11:40:19 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
N a big fuck you to all of you who are criticizing puck.
I know him personally and I have had experience with him and other staff at YCI.
ITS A FUCKING TRAGEDY THAT THE KID DIED. We got it. People die all the time. How are any of us to know that his parents would have gotten to him n time (not implying bad parenting in anyway)
but to take it out on one of the best staff that I had the pleasure to deal with there... and accusing him of cowardice it ridiculous.
The people who were there for the kids made it obvious they were and puck was one of them. There were always problems with understaffing and everything else he said...
SHIT HAPPENS IN PLACES... kids get thrown off horses and break necks. They slipe on ice and break bones... or fall over someone and break knees. The kids are responisble for their own damn experience in these places... the staff are responsible to make it as safe as possible. That still leaves room for shit to happen its life and none of us are gods.
And he does not get paid to sit here and take abuse... he get paid to try to help people see the potential they have


QFT / newpage anti-whospam
Title: How to help program staff quit their job faster!
Post by: Deborah on September 07, 2007, 12:31:42 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote
This is truly appalling. I can't believe that post was for real….


Com’on people, we have all heard a lot more harsher things said as a reality check here on fornits.  But it usually directed towards parents or programmies.

Bottom line is choosing a private boarding school or Wilderness camp for an at-risk child is far safer than leaving them in the public sector.  This is not my opinion…… it is fact.  The numbers show this overwhelmingly, it is just difficult for many to swallow here.

Someone posted earlier that in the span of 4 decades 536 kids died in the industry
“536


Restraint: 236
Dehydration: 144
Beating: 98
Suicide: 38â€
Title: How to help program staff quit their job faster!
Post by: Anonymous on September 07, 2007, 12:47:14 PM
theWho admitted in his earlier posts he spent time in jail for sexually molesting a child before he became a father. He thought he would get sympathy and this was some sort of child molestor site, now he backtracking.
Title: How to help program staff quit their job faster!
Post by: TheWho on September 07, 2007, 12:47:50 PM
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""
Who you are one sick mother fucker.  Why are you here?  How much money are YOU making off this sick little industry.  What interest do YOU have in seeing it grow?

At least have the BALLS to let us all know what the hell you're here for.  And don't give me that shit about facts, because you wouldn 't know one if it bit you in the ass.  


WHY ARE YOU HERE???



If my son or daughter was hurt by the car industry (car accident).  I may be right out there like you, rattling cages, trying to get people to see the cars need better equipment.  Trying to shut down the industry, probably not, but I would want to see safety changes occur.

Its important to lay out all the facts and take a look at them.  If the industry as a whole keeps kids safe from harming themselves or being murdered we should let parents know this.  It could save lives.  I understand that some of these places can be abusive or have abusive people working there.  This is a major problem but lets not throw the good out with the bad.

We should be focusing on those schools which are doing the most harm and the only way we can do this is to look at where the kids are being hurt.  You are wasting your time being pissed at the world.  Lets get these kids the help they need.

I am not getting paid, I am a concerned parent, like yourself who had a daughter attend a TBS and wilderness.
Title: How to help program staff quit their job faster!
Post by: Anne Bonney on September 07, 2007, 12:51:41 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
We should be focusing on those schools which are doing the most harm and the only way we can do this is to look at where the kids are being hurt.  You are wasting your time being pissed at the world.  Lets get these kids the help they need.

I am not getting paid, I am a concerned parent, like yourself who had a daughter attend a TBS and wilderness.


Stop saying "we".  YOU are not a part of anything WE are trying to do.  WE are trying to get these shitholes closed down.  YOU are trying to make money off them, IMO. YOU are a parent who shipped your kid off.  WE didn't do that.  I managed to raise two kids without having to hire someone else to do my job.    WE (most of us) are victims of this sick little industry.  YOU are a shill for that very industry.  IMO

So, fuck off and die asshole.
Title: How to help program staff quit their job faster!
Post by: Anonymous on September 07, 2007, 12:54:33 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Yes, I made a mistake in my past by molesting a child, but I served my time to society and do not deserve the treatment and abuse of this site. I am no longer guilty and live my life free of my shame and I suggest you do the same. This is a hate site used for defaming law-abiding citizens and I will stay and tell people this. I was abused in prison and you don't see me whining about it all day on a forum.


I read your story of what happened to you in prison and it made me sick, but unlike you who committed a heinous crime most children in abusive facilities did nothing wrong. I agree you didn't deserve to be raped in prison, but keep in mind you were found guilty by your pe ers. Maybe you should start some sort of prison reform forum or somethingTheWho?
Title: How to help program staff quit their job faster!
Post by: TheWho on September 07, 2007, 01:05:35 PM
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""
Quote from: ""TheWho""
We should be focusing on those schools which are doing the most harm and the only way we can do this is to look at where the kids are being hurt.  You are wasting your time being pissed at the world.  Lets get these kids the help they need.

I am not getting paid, I am a concerned parent, like yourself who had a daughter attend a TBS and wilderness.

Stop saying "we".  YOU are not a part of anything WE are trying to do.  WE are trying to get these shitholes closed down.  YOU are trying to make money off them, IMO. YOU are a parent who shipped your kid off.  WE didn't do that.  I managed to raise two kids without having to hire someone else to do my job.    WE (most of us) are victims of this sick little industry.  YOU are a shill for that very industry.  IMO

So, fuck off and die asshole.


Look, Anne, you may want the industry shut down but there are many of us who do not.  You may work on getting that done, be my guest.  But the rest of us will be focusing on getting these kids the help they need whether that be “Shipping them offâ€
Title: How to help program staff quit their job faster!
Post by: Anonymous on September 07, 2007, 01:10:23 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho"
I have no need to talk about my past. If you find comfort in anger and victimhood, by all means, go ahead and continue with your tantrums. I choose to move on with my life. I think you would be better off doing the same.



Sorry Who- I can't just flip a  switch and forget about abuse that easily. Even you, a child molester, did not deserve to be abused while serving time in an institution.
Does that surprise you to hear me say that?
I want to keep everyone safe including adults which is why I work so tirelessly to shut down this unregulated industry. The abuse you suffered in prison is no different than what many kids suffer, try flexing those empathy muscles if you have them.
Title: How to help program staff quit their job faster!
Post by: Anonymous on September 07, 2007, 01:18:22 PM
thewho.....

there is a school nearby called the MLK jr. school. it's in a dominantly jewish neighborhood, but the kids who go there come down from harlem and and washington hights - the minority ghettos. the school is extremely violent. a few years ago, there was even a shooting, and they felt it was so commonplace that there was only a tiny little 1-inch column in the post about the rampage. there are stabbing and beatings on a daily basis. they even used to sell crack right outside untill they had a whole fleet of cops come it ever morning and afternoon. the kids at mlk are even a hazard to other schools - my old high school lets kids out 3 hours early on holloween because for years the traditional MLK holloween activity wasnt dressing up - but tracking down and robbing the private school rich kids.

these kids have barely enough money to eat. most of them live in tiny apartments with half a dozen sibling, most with single mothers. now, what would you propose for these kids? a TBS or RTC? who's gonna pay for it? you fucking rich people spend so much time worrying about your kids smoking pot and having sex you have absolutely no idea what kids that really DO need help look like. next time you consider sending your kid away because she called you names, or snuck out, or tried pot, think about all the kids at MLK who have to live in fear and poverty every day right smack in the middle of the richest neighborhood in manhattan.
Title: How to help program staff quit their job faster!
Post by: Anne Bonney on September 07, 2007, 01:18:38 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"

Look, Anne, you may want the industry shut down but there are many of us who do not.  You may work on getting that done, be my guest.  But the rest of us will be focusing on getting these kids the help they need whether that be “Shipping them offâ€
Title: How to help program staff quit their job faster!
Post by: Anonymous on September 07, 2007, 01:20:33 PM
Quote
N a big fuck you to all of you who are criticizing puck.
I know him personally and I have had experience with him and other staff at YCI.
ITS A FUCKING TRAGEDY THAT THE KID DIED. We got it. People die all the time. How are any of us to know that his parents would have gotten to him n time (not implying bad parenting in anyway)
but to take it out on one of the best staff that I had the pleasure to deal with there... and accusing him of cowardice it ridiculous.
The people who were there for the kids made it obvious they were and puck was one of them. There were always problems with understaffing and everything else he said...
SHIT HAPPENS IN PLACES... kids get thrown off horses and break necks. They slipe on ice and break bones... or fall over someone and break knees. The kids are responisble for their own damn experience in these places... the staff are responsible to make it as safe as possible. That still leaves room for shit to happen its life and none of us are gods.
And he does not get paid to sit here and take abuse... he get paid to try to help people see the potential they have


QFT again for anti-Who-related derailment.

I don't think he likes this post very much.
Title: How to help program staff quit their job faster!
Post by: Anonymous on September 07, 2007, 01:24:20 PM
[
Quote
quote="TheWho"]
 
You may not have shipped you kids off, but it is evident that you didn’t serve too well as a role model for them with the way you handle conflict.  I couldn’t imagine my kids being exposed to language like that from their mother.  I would expect your kids didn’t turn out as well as you think (IMO).]
Quote


The Who dares to judge Anne parenting skills and how she she serves as a role model to her children?
I'd certainly trust my kids around her and expose them to her "language" before I'd leave them near you, WHO, a man who molests children!
GMAFB.
Title: How to help program staff quit their job faster!
Post by: Froderik on September 07, 2007, 01:29:57 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
You may not have shipped you kids off, but it is evident that you didn’t serve too well as a role model for them with the way you handle conflict.  I couldn’t imagine my kids being exposed to language like that from their mother.  I would expect your kids didn’t turn out as well as you think (IMO).

Now just a goddam minute there, Who... I cuss in front of my kids all the time, and they're fine.. I'm not proud of that, it's just the way I talk... this seems like a non-issue you bring up here.
Title: How to help program staff quit their job faster!
Post by: Froderik on September 07, 2007, 01:33:21 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
thewho.....

there is a school nearby called the MLK jr. school. it's in a dominantly jewish neighborhood, but the kids who go there come down from harlem and and washington hights - the minority ghettos. the school is extremely violent. a few years ago, there was even a shooting, and they felt it was so commonplace that there was only a tiny little 1-inch column in the post about the rampage. there are stabbing and beatings on a daily basis. they even used to sell crack right outside untill they had a whole fleet of cops come it ever morning and afternoon. the kids at mlk are even a hazard to other schools - my old high school lets kids out 3 hours early on holloween because for years the traditional MLK holloween activity wasnt dressing up - but tracking down and robbing the private school rich kids.

these kids have barely enough money to eat. most of them live in tiny apartments with half a dozen sibling, most with single mothers. now, what would you propose for these kids? a TBS or RTC? who's gonna pay for it? you fucking rich people spend so much time worrying about your kids smoking pot and having sex you have absolutely no idea what kids that really DO need help look like. next time you consider sending your kid away because she called you names, or snuck out, or tried pot, think about all the kids at MLK who have to live in fear and poverty every day right smack in the middle of the richest neighborhood in manhattan.

Awesome post... keep 'em coming!
Title: How to help program staff quit their job faster!
Post by: Anonymous on September 07, 2007, 01:34:45 PM
Crack helps kids pay attention in school.
Title: How to help program staff quit their job faster!
Post by: Froderik on September 07, 2007, 01:36:08 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote
N a big fuck you to all of you who are criticizing puck.
I know him personally and I have had experience with him and other staff at YCI.
ITS A FUCKING TRAGEDY THAT THE KID DIED. We got it. People die all the time. How are any of us to know that his parents would have gotten to him n time (not implying bad parenting in anyway)
but to take it out on one of the best staff that I had the pleasure to deal with there... and accusing him of cowardice it ridiculous.
The people who were there for the kids made it obvious they were and puck was one of them. There were always problems with understaffing and everything else he said...
SHIT HAPPENS IN PLACES... kids get thrown off horses and break necks. They slipe on ice and break bones... or fall over someone and break knees. The kids are responisble for their own damn experience in these places... the staff are responsible to make it as safe as possible. That still leaves room for shit to happen its life and none of us are gods.
And he does not get paid to sit here and take abuse... he get paid to try to help people see the potential they have

QFT again for anti-Who-related derailment.

I don't think he likes this post very much.

You make a good point; perhaps we should disengage ourselves of any further dialogue concerning bad language, etc and focus on this some more....?
Title: How to help program staff quit their job faster!
Post by: Anonymous on September 07, 2007, 01:36:53 PM
What do people mean when they say "we"?
Title: How to help program staff quit their job faster!
Post by: TheWho on September 07, 2007, 01:41:58 PM
Anne Wrote:
Quote
You have absolutely no idea about my life or my kids yet you feel completely justified in saying they didn't turn out well.


Hmmm….. me think you assumed first, as I recall when you said…â€
Title: How to help program staff quit their job faster!
Post by: Anonymous on September 07, 2007, 01:44:24 PM
I know where your money comes from.
Title: How to help program staff quit their job faster!
Post by: Anne Bonney on September 07, 2007, 01:45:57 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"

Hmmm….. me think you assumed first, as I recall when you said…â€
Title: How to help program staff quit their job faster!
Post by: TheWho on September 07, 2007, 01:53:16 PM
Quote
thewho.....

there is a school nearby called the MLK jr. school. it's in a dominantly jewish neighborhood, but the kids who go there come down from harlem and and washington hights - the minority ghettos. the school is extremely violent. a few years ago, there was even a shooting, and they felt it was so commonplace that there was only a tiny little 1-inch column in the post about the rampage. there are stabbing and beatings on a daily basis. they even used to sell crack right outside untill they had a whole fleet of cops come it ever morning and afternoon. the kids at mlk are even a hazard to other schools - my old high school lets kids out 3 hours early on holloween because for years the traditional MLK holloween activity wasnt dressing up - but tracking down and robbing the private school rich kids.

these kids have barely enough money to eat. most of them live in tiny apartments with half a dozen sibling, most with single mothers. now, what would you propose for these kids? a TBS or RTC? who's gonna pay for it? you fucking rich people spend so much time worrying about your kids smoking pot and having sex you have absolutely no idea what kids that really DO need help look like. next time you consider sending your kid away because she called you names, or snuck out, or tried pot, think about all the kids at MLK who have to live in fear and poverty every day right smack in the middle of the richest neighborhood in manhattan.


First of all, if you talk to most people here on fornits they will try to convince you that those kids will be much better off where they are than to go to a TBS or RTC.  And I don’t think we would make anyone here happy by lowering the price so more kids can attend.

Secondly, I think you are miss informed that people just send kids away for sneaking out at night or smoking pot.  I am sure there is an exception, but this is not the norm.
Title: How to help program staff quit their job faster!
Post by: Anonymous on September 07, 2007, 01:53:50 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
What do people mean when they say "we"?

Anyone involved in this discussion (aside from TheWho).
Title: How to help program staff quit their job faster!
Post by: Anonymous on September 07, 2007, 01:54:48 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
What do people mean when they say "we"?


Who is they?

people, we, they, us, them, you... ::troll::
Title: How to help program staff quit their job faster!
Post by: Anonymous on September 07, 2007, 01:56:46 PM
TheWho is welcome on fornits otherwise he would be banned.
Title: How to help program staff quit their job faster!
Post by: Anonymous on September 07, 2007, 01:59:23 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
thewho.....

there is a school nearby called the MLK jr. school. it's in a dominantly jewish neighborhood, but the kids who go there come down from harlem and and washington hights - the minority ghettos. the school is extremely violent. a few years ago, there was even a shooting, and they felt it was so commonplace that there was only a tiny little 1-inch column in the post about the rampage. there are stabbing and beatings on a daily basis. they even used to sell crack right outside untill they had a whole fleet of cops come it ever morning and afternoon. the kids at mlk are even a hazard to other schools - my old high school lets kids out 3 hours early on holloween because for years the traditional MLK holloween activity wasnt dressing up - but tracking down and robbing the private school rich kids.

these kids have barely enough money to eat. most of them live in tiny apartments with half a dozen sibling, most with single mothers. now, what would you propose for these kids? a TBS or RTC? who's gonna pay for it? you fucking rich people spend so much time worrying about your kids smoking pot and having sex you have absolutely no idea what kids that really DO need help look like. next time you consider sending your kid away because she called you names, or snuck out, or tried pot, think about all the kids at MLK who have to live in fear and poverty every day right smack in the middle of the richest neighborhood in manhattan.



Typical LIEberal.  :roll:
Title: How to help program staff quit their job faster!
Post by: Anonymous on September 07, 2007, 02:02:23 PM
Don't care for what he represents, but I'll defend to the death his right to represent.
Title: How to help program staff quit their job faster!
Post by: Anonymous on September 07, 2007, 02:07:00 PM
How noble thou art.
Title: How to help program staff quit their job faster!
Post by: Anne Bonney on September 07, 2007, 02:14:10 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
TheWho is welcome on fornits otherwise he would be banned.


I wouldn't say welcome, but yeah.  He can post.
Title: How to help program staff quit their job faster!
Post by: TheWho on September 07, 2007, 02:20:25 PM
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""
Quote from: ""Guest""
TheWho is welcome on fornits otherwise he would be banned.

I wouldn't say welcome, but yeah.  He can post.


Thank you and...
Anne Bonney is welcome also.  I don’t agree with her foul language or anger towards those who disagree with her, But I don’t feel she should be banned because of the way she chooses to express herself.  She has just as much right to post as anyone else here, in my opinion.
Title: How to help program staff quit their job faster!
Post by: Anne Bonney on September 07, 2007, 02:25:14 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""
Quote from: ""Guest""
TheWho is welcome on fornits otherwise he would be banned.

I wouldn't say welcome, but yeah.  He can post.

Thank you and...
Anne Bonney is welcome also.  I don’t agree with her foul language or anger towards those who disagree with her, But I don’t feel she should be banned because of the way she chooses to express herself.  She has just as much right to post as anyone else here, in my opinion.



fuck off and die asshole. :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:
Title: How to help program staff quit their job faster!
Post by: Anonymous on September 07, 2007, 02:26:49 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""

First of all, if you talk to most people here on fornits they will try to convince you that those kids will be much better off where they are than to go to a TBS or RTC.  And I don’t think we would make anyone here happy by lowering the price so more kids can attend.

Secondly, I think you are miss informed that people just send kids away for sneaking out at night or smoking pot.  I am sure there is an exception, but this is not the norm.


first of all you missed the point. further demonstrating your foolishness and ignorance. i'm pointing out that there are much bigger issues, and people with worse problems than you and suburban parents with kids who smoke pot, and somehow they manage to deal with these problems. life goes on. some die, some go to jail. some by accident, some for justice, some because of an injustice, but thats life, thats darwinism. survival of the fittest. when a child dies at a program, it is ALWAYS an injustice and is ALWAYS because of neglect. and maybe, if you took all that money you wasted on a boarding school for your kid, you could buy lunch for an entire school for a year. or maybe you can put it in a college fund for your kids, or other kids that need it. maybe if you paid a little more attention to the world, get your head out your ass, and open your eyes, you'd notice everything is interconnected. have you thought that maybe if you get these inner-city kids an education, and a little love, you might just have less dealers and criminals around to mess up, mislead, rob or sell hard drugs YOUR kids?

and yes many, many people get sent away for just smoking pot and sneaking out. i've seen kids at HLA and RCI who were just computer geeks with no social skills. i've met two girls who were sent away simply because their dads didnt want them to loose their virginity, and they had steady boyfreinds. at hla there were about a dozen kids who came simply because they had "bad grades and study habits" bad grades meaning B's and bad study habits meaning an hour a day. they were all pulled fairly quickly, although they should have never been sent there. and at the same time you have violent, antisocial, psychopathic people getting accepted, being roomed in the same room as the geeky kids.

now, everyone knows, what happens when you stick a violent criminal and a scrawny little "average white guy" in a cell together in prison. it aint much different at a "boarding school"


and to the individual who said i was a lying liberal - take your nazi ass and go do some fact-checking.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Lut ... _(New_York (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther_King,_Jr._High_School_(New_York))
although i was not aware it closed in 05'....i got sent away in 03' and havnt been in the area since. it really makes no difference, still serves my point.
Title: How to help program staff quit their job faster!
Post by: Anonymous on September 07, 2007, 02:32:25 PM
http://www.insideschools.org/fs/school_ ... php?id=961 (http://www.insideschools.org/fs/school_profile.php?id=961)


to the guy who said lieberal, not one but TWO shootings.

oh yeah and charlie and eddie murphy, and 50 cent went to MLK. dont believe me look it up.
Title: How to help program staff quit their job faster!
Post by: Froderik on September 07, 2007, 02:51:43 PM
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""
fuck off and die asshole. :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:

 :rofl: Hey! Watch your fuckin' mouth!!  :flame: ::bwahaha::
Title: How to help program staff quit their job faster!
Post by: Froderik on September 07, 2007, 02:53:31 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
http://www.insideschools.org/fs/school_profile.php?id=961


to the guy who said lieberal, not one but TWO shootings.

oh yeah and charlie and eddie murphy, and 50 cent went to MLK. dont believe me look it up.

I'm glad you bumped this, cuz i was gonna say I don't get the 'liberal' comment anyway...wth?
Title: How to help program staff quit their job faster!
Post by: TheWho on September 07, 2007, 02:56:53 PM
Quote
first of all you missed the point. further demonstrating your foolishness and ignorance. i'm pointing out that there are much bigger issues, and people with worse problems than you and suburban parents with kids who smoke pot, and somehow they manage to deal with these problems. life goes on. some die, some go to jail. some by accident, some for justice, some because of an injustice, but thats life, thats darwinism. survival of the fittest. when a child dies at a program, it is ALWAYS an injustice and is ALWAYS because of neglect. and maybe, if you took all that money you wasted on a boarding school for your kid, you could buy lunch for an entire school for a year. or maybe you can put it in a college fund for your kids, or other kids that need it. maybe if you paid a little more attention to the world, get your head out your ass, and open your eyes, you'd notice everything is interconnected. have you thought that maybe if you get these inner-city kids an education, and a little love, you might just have less dealers and criminals around to mess up, mislead, rob or sell hard drugs YOUR kids?

and yes many, many people get sent away for just smoking pot and sneaking out. i've seen kids at HLA and RCI who were just computer geeks with no social skills. i've met two girls who were sent away simply because their dads didnt want them to loose their virginity, and they had steady boyfreinds. at hla there were about a dozen kids who came simply because they had "bad grades and study habits" bad grades meaning B's and bad study habits meaning an hour a day. they were all pulled fairly quickly, although they should have never been sent there. and at the same time you have violent, antisocial, psychopathic people getting accepted, being roomed in the same room as the geeky kids.

now, everyone knows, what happens when you stick a violent criminal and a scrawny little "average white guy" in a cell together in prison. it aint much different at a "boarding school"


When a child dies it is always an injustice, not just in boarding schools.  Kids die on the street, at home by their parents, mothers boyfriend, kids die at birth, kids die from drug overdoses, car accidents, by their teachers, by their friends and people they trust……  they are all injustices.
The difference is this is fornits and it focuses primarily on kids who die in programs.  When a child dies in a program their death is examined a little closer ,here, than those that die by the hands of their friends or relatives etc., but it doesn’t mean their death is any more tragic or unjust.
Title: How to help program staff quit their job faster!
Post by: Anonymous on September 07, 2007, 03:01:34 PM
Mad phont skillz, yo.
Title: How to help program staff quit their job faster!
Post by: Anonymous on September 07, 2007, 03:03:09 PM
I don't see the relation between a poor black school and abusive private programs.
Title: How to help program staff quit their job faster!
Post by: Froderik on September 07, 2007, 03:09:50 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
When a child dies it is always an injustice, not just in boarding schools.  Kids die on the street, at home by their parents, mothers boyfriend, kids die at birth, kids die from drug overdoses, car accidents, by their teachers, by their friends and people they trust……  they are all injustices.
The difference is this is fornits and it focuses primarily on kids who die in programs.  When a child dies in a program their death is examined a little closer ,here, than those that die by the hands of their friends or relatives etc., but it doesn’t mean their death is any more tragic or unjust.

Tragic, yes.. but "injustice" is reaching.
What's your point? I don't see where you're trying to go with this.
Title: How to help program staff quit their job faster!
Post by: TheWho on September 07, 2007, 03:23:57 PM
Quote from: ""Froderik""
Quote from: ""TheWho""
When a child dies it is always an injustice, not just in boarding schools.  Kids die on the street, at home by their parents, mothers boyfriend, kids die at birth, kids die from drug overdoses, car accidents, by their teachers, by their friends and people they trust……  they are all injustices.
The difference is this is fornits and it focuses primarily on kids who die in programs.  When a child dies in a program their death is examined a little closer ,here, than those that die by the hands of their friends or relatives etc., but it doesn’t mean their death is any more tragic or unjust.
Tragic, yes.. but "injustice" is reaching.
What's your point? I don't see where you're trying to go with this.


My point is that if a child dies in a program, it doesnt nesseccarily mean that all programs should be shut down.  We need to step back and look at what we are saying.  If we start shutting down every location or situation inwhich a child dies we will have nothing left (and we wont solve the problem).  We need to pinpoint the areas where kids are at most risk and address them specifically.
It doesnt make sense to spend time trying to shut down the entire auto industry or school system, alcohol producers or drug pushers because kids are dieing.  We need to look at the problem areas within these industries and address it from the inside out.
Title: How to help program staff quit their job faster!
Post by: Anonymous on September 07, 2007, 03:30:49 PM
No, we need to destroy this excuse for an industry because the entire system is directly based on abuse.

Can you still not comprehend this in that feeble little mind, despite the evidence and testimony?
Title: How to help program staff quit their job faster!
Post by: Anonymous on September 07, 2007, 03:40:23 PM
Actually, let's take another look at what TheWho is really saying here.

He's telling upper-middle-class parents, "Come! Send your kids to these places that have a history of abuse. We don't shut down inner-city schools when kids die there, do we? Of course not, we try to make them better, right? So, pay thousands of dollars to send your kids to our brutal facilities with violence like that of an inner-city school, and let's work together to make it better from the inside out!"

:rofl:

But hey, shit happens right?
Title: How to help program staff quit their job faster!
Post by: Anonymous on September 07, 2007, 03:52:14 PM
the who....look up the standford prison experiment.

kids being abused at programs is an inherent risk....you cant stop it, unless you completely change the system and the way people think. kinda like how it's an inherent risk that if you go to prison, youre likely to get raped, or if you carry a gun, you're likely to shoot someone you dont mean to.

rather than blaming our kids, we should take a look at ourselves, see what is causing them to go crazy, what has caused the need for a program. people need to be looking at society as a whole, and how we can prevent kids from getting fucked up in the first place. if your head is just in your family, if you cant see beyond it, your kids will most definitely always end up fucked up. and it's YOUR fault, not theirs, and they should not suffer for your mistakes as a parent. we should examine what in our psyche causes us to become so sadistic under certain conditions, and how we can personally change, and help others overcome that ingrained psychological reaction. as kennedy once said "ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country". he was not just talking about the millitary. if we continue to ignore those less fourtunate than us, and keep saying it's their own fault, their misfourtune will soon become our misfourtune. we are all on the same boat...planet earth. if you dont give a flying fuck about the poor black 8 year old selling crack (other than to call the cops on him), that will reflect back on you. some people say karma is bullshit - but all it is, is energy. you cant destroy it, just transform it. if all you do is give off bad energy, all you will get is bad energy in return. and your life will suck big fat rod daltrey dick. maybe you should go look at some other places in the world, outside of the dainty state of mass. maybe it will put your ideas, and your worries about your kids in perspective.


i know i'm gonna get flak for dissin the who the band...but i think they suck as much as the person. they might even be the same person. didnt daltrey get in trouble for having kiddie porn?
Title: How to help program staff quit their job faster!
Post by: Froderik on September 07, 2007, 03:55:28 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""Froderik""
Quote from: ""TheWho""
When a child dies it is always an injustice, not just in boarding schools.  Kids die on the street, at home by their parents, mothers boyfriend, kids die at birth, kids die from drug overdoses, car accidents, by their teachers, by their friends and people they trust……  they are all injustices.
The difference is this is fornits and it focuses primarily on kids who die in programs.  When a child dies in a program their death is examined a little closer ,here, than those that die by the hands of their friends or relatives etc., but it doesn’t mean their death is any more tragic or unjust.
Tragic, yes.. but "injustice" is reaching.
What's your point? I don't see where you're trying to go with this.

My point is that if a child dies in a program, it doesnt nesseccarily mean that all programs should be shut down.  We need to step back and look at what we are saying.  If we start shutting down every location or situation inwhich a child dies we will have nothing left (and we wont solve the problem).  We need to pinpoint the areas where kids are at most risk and address them specifically.
It doesnt make sense to spend time trying to shut down the entire auto industry or school system, alcohol producers or drug pushers because kids are dieing.  We need to look at the problem areas within these industries and address it from the inside out.

I'm steadfastly against any form of coercive treatment.
Title: How to help program staff quit their job faster!
Post by: Anne Bonney on September 07, 2007, 04:37:25 PM
Quote from: ""Who""
My point is that if a child dies in a program, it doesnt nesseccarily mean that all programs should be shut down.  We need to step back and look at what we are saying.  If we start shutting down every location or situation inwhich a child dies we will have nothing left (and we wont solve the problem).  We need to pinpoint the areas where kids are at most risk and address them specifically.
It doesnt make sense to spend time trying to shut down the entire auto industry or school system, alcohol producers or drug pushers because kids are dieing.  We need to look at the problem areas within these industries and address it from the inside out.


Quote from: ""Froderick""
I'm steadfastly against any form of coercive treatment.


 :nworthy:  :nworthy:


That's it exactly.  You can't coerce or force treatment or therapy.  It is abusive to attempt to do so, in and of itself.  There doesn't have to be physical violence or deaths for a program to do harm.  The very essence and methodology of programs IS abusive.  They use the 'therapeutic community' approach.  That is a direct reference to the Mother of all programs Synanon.

To remove children from their families and all sources of comfort and security and put then into an extremely restrictive, isolated environment and try to force them to conform and adapt to this new 'family' is dangerous.  To restrict or monitor communication between the child and his family is immoral and does nothing to further good communication between the child and parent.  To use a level system and questionable staffing is incredibly dangerous (See above anon post about Stanford Prison Experiment http://www.prisonexp.org/ (http://www.prisonexp.org/) ).  Stockholm Syndrome (hell, at one point in my life I would have said that Straight was 'tough' but saved my life.  After two years of the mindrape I believed them when they said I deserved what was happening to me).  

The brainwashing is lasting and deep.  The best phrase I've ever found to describe what programs do is
Title: How to help program staff quit their job faster!
Post by: Anne Bonney on September 07, 2007, 04:51:43 PM
Quote from: ""Froderik""
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""
fuck off and die asshole. :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:
:rofl: Hey! Watch your fuckin' mouth!!  :flame: ::bwahaha::



Yeah, well.  You realize I speak like this all the time too, right?  Boss, colleagues, friends, neighbors.   They all get it.

  ::unhappy::  ::both::  ::fuckoff::   ::unhappy::  ::unhappy::
 ::puke::  ::bangin::  ::armed::  ::armed::  ::bangin::  ::unhappy::  ::stab::





 ::bwahaha::
Title: How to help program staff quit their job faster!
Post by: Anne Bonney on September 07, 2007, 04:53:15 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
first of all you missed the point. further demonstrating your foolishness and ignorance. i'm pointing out that there are much bigger issues, and people with worse problems than you and suburban parents with kids who smoke pot, and somehow they manage to deal with these problems. life goes on. some die, some go to jail. some by accident, some for justice, some because of an injustice, but thats life, thats darwinism. survival of the fittest. when a child dies at a program, it is ALWAYS an injustice and is ALWAYS because of neglect. and maybe, if you took all that money you wasted on a boarding school for your kid, you could buy lunch for an entire school for a year. or maybe you can put it in a college fund for your kids, or other kids that need it. maybe if you paid a little more attention to the world, get your head out your ass, and open your eyes, you'd notice everything is interconnected. have you thought that maybe if you get these inner-city kids an education, and a little love, you might just have less dealers and criminals around to mess up, mislead, rob or sell hard drugs YOUR kids?

and yes many, many people get sent away for just smoking pot and sneaking out. i've seen kids at HLA and RCI who were just computer geeks with no social skills. i've met two girls who were sent away simply because their dads didnt want them to loose their virginity, and they had steady boyfreinds. at hla there were about a dozen kids who came simply because they had "bad grades and study habits" bad grades meaning B's and bad study habits meaning an hour a day. they were all pulled fairly quickly, although they should have never been sent there. and at the same time you have violent, antisocial, psychopathic people getting accepted, being roomed in the same room as the geeky kids.

now, everyone knows, what happens when you stick a violent criminal and a scrawny little "average white guy" in a cell together in prison. it aint much different at a "boarding school"


and to the individual who said i was a lying liberal - take your nazi ass and go do some fact-checking.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Lut ... _(New_York (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther_King,_Jr._High_School_(New_York))
although i was not aware it closed in 05'....i got sent away in 03' and havnt been in the area since. it really makes no difference, still serves my point.



 :nworthy:  :tup:
Title: How to help program staff quit their job faster!
Post by: Deborah on September 07, 2007, 07:16:35 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
rather than blaming our kids, we should take a look at ourselves, see what is causing them to go crazy, what has caused the need for a program. people need to be looking at society as a whole, and how we can prevent kids from getting fucked up in the first place. if your head is just in your family, if you cant see beyond it, your kids will most definitely always end up fucked up. and it's YOUR fault, not theirs, and they should not suffer for your mistakes as a parent. we should examine what in our psyche causes us to become so sadistic under certain conditions, and how we can personally change, and help others overcome that ingrained psychological reaction.


 ::cheers::
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=38150#38150 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=38150#38150)
http://ishmael.com/Education/Writings/rice_u_2_98.shtml (http://ishmael.com/Education/Writings/rice_u_2_98.shtml)
http://www.wesjones.com/gatto1.htm (http://www.wesjones.com/gatto1.htm)
http://home.earthlink.net/~mmales/yt-euro.htm (http://home.earthlink.net/~mmales/yt-euro.htm)
Title: How to help program staff quit their job faster!
Post by: 3xsaSeedling on September 07, 2007, 07:41:18 PM
Guest wrote:
"rather than blaming our kids, we should take a look at ourselves, see what is causing them to go crazy, what has caused the need for a program. people need to be looking at society as a whole, and how we can prevent kids from getting fucked up in the first place. if your head is just in your family, if you cant see beyond it, your kids will most definitely always end up fucked up. and it's YOUR fault, not theirs, and they should not suffer for your mistakes as a parent. we should examine what in our psyche causes us to become so sadistic under certain conditions, and how we can personally change, and help others overcome that ingrained psychological reaction."  

I too have come to think it may be 'parenting skills' (or lack thereof) that are a larger part of the problems w/our kids.  
Why doesn't my own experience w/the industry lead to some insights w/my job as a parent?
Title: How to help program staff quit their job faster!
Post by: Anne Bonney on September 07, 2007, 07:45:32 PM
Quote from: ""3xsaSeedling""
Guest wrote:
"rather than blaming our kids, we should take a look at ourselves, see what is causing them to go crazy, what has caused the need for a program. people need to be looking at society as a whole, and how we can prevent kids from getting fucked up in the first place. if your head is just in your family, if you cant see beyond it, your kids will most definitely always end up fucked up. and it's YOUR fault, not theirs, and they should not suffer for your mistakes as a parent. we should examine what in our psyche causes us to become so sadistic under certain conditions, and how we can personally change, and help others overcome that ingrained psychological reaction."  

I too have come to think it may be 'parenting skills' (or lack thereof) that are a larger part of the problems w/our kids.  
Why doesn't my own experience w/the industry lead to some insights w/my job as a parent?



It does and it will.  Respect and communication are they key elements.  But it has to begin that way.  You cant' wait until there's a problem and then decide to be involved
Title: How to help program staff quit their job faster!
Post by: Anonymous on September 07, 2007, 07:51:39 PM
Quote
what has caused the need for a program.

There is no need for programs. Never was never will be.

 
Quote
and how we can prevent kids from getting fucked up in the first place.

The kids in programs are not " fucked up", your assumption and premise presume today's average kid needs help or something- not true.

Quote
f your head is just in your family, if you cant see beyond it, your kids will most definitely always end up fucked up.



Yeah, right...

 :roll: :roll:
Title: How to help program staff quit their job faster!
Post by: 3xsaSeedling on September 07, 2007, 08:07:54 PM
IMO what we're chatting about here would be the massive resocialization of countries  :o   yes?
What kind of people do these things...to kids?
They must be psycho.
Ya can't do this stuff and be right in the head ::hatter::
I want to shake-the-shit outta all of them.
Title: How to help program staff quit their job faster!
Post by: Anne Bonney on September 07, 2007, 08:12:28 PM
Quote from: ""3xsaSeedling""
IMO what we're chatting about here would be the massive resocialization of countries  :o   yes?
What kind of people do these things...to kids?
They must be psycho.
Ya can't do this stuff and be right in the head ::hatter::
I want to shake-the-shit outta all of them.




Deborah's links:

http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=38150#38150 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=38150#38150)
http://ishmael.com/Education/Writings/rice_u_2_98.shtml (http://ishmael.com/Education/Writings/rice_u_2_98.shtml)
http://www.wesjones.com/gatto1.htm (http://www.wesjones.com/gatto1.htm)
http://home.earthlink.net/~mmales/yt-euro.htm (http://home.earthlink.net/~mmales/yt-euro.htm)
Title: How to help program staff quit their job faster!
Post by: Anonymous on September 07, 2007, 08:32:51 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote
Can someone post a picture if you find one?

Found it!

(http://http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/6338/face9pl.jpg)


QFT
Title: How to help program staff quit their job faster!
Post by: Froderik on September 07, 2007, 10:23:08 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
your life will suck big fat rod daltrey dick. maybe you should go look at some other places in the world, outside of the dainty state of mass. maybe it will put your ideas, and your worries about your kids in perspective.

i know i'm gonna get flak for dissin the who the band...but i think they suck as much as the person. they might even be the same person. didnt daltrey get in trouble for having kiddie porn?

Hmm.. first of all, it's Roger Daltrey. You must be young or something, lol. And it was Pete Townsend (the guitar player) that was accused of possessing the kiddie porn. I didn't follow that story too closely, but in Pete's defense (and I can only hope that this is true) he was studying that material for an album that he was working on. I suppose that's believable enough.

Watch the film "The Kids Are Alright" or listen to the deluxe edition of "Live at Leeds" and THEN tell me that The Who sucks... the band has NOTHING to do with TheWho (who posts here).
Title: How to help program staff quit their job faster!
Post by: Anonymous on September 07, 2007, 11:03:55 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
if you dont give a flying fuck about the poor black 8 year old selling crack (other than to call the cops on him), that will reflect back on you.


That's some deep shit, yo.