Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Anonymous on August 26, 2007, 09:27:29 AM
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Hi
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Hi ,
It is hard to figure out how to post. My name is Judy. I am have been reading these boards for awhile. My dd went through a wilderness camp this summer and had a wonderful experience. She went through the 21 day at Catherine Freern. I have been reading about WIlderness camps and all the horrible experiences and the deaths etc. I am a concerned parent that is very involved with my child. THanks to everyone who has posted on this forum. I have considered a therapuetic boarding school however all I have read about abuse concerns me along with the cost. From what I have read Grove in Conn is the only one with positive reviews. Yes we have her in therapy. We have talked about home schooling too. She hasn't been in a lot of trouble. She is more of an at risk girl who is 14 that my husband and I just want the best for.
Judy
So my question is what do parents like us do ?
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check out Rock Point in Vt. Don't have any exp with it, but even Son of Serbia had good things to say.
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If she had such a wonderful experience on a wilderness camp, then take one yourself together with your child.
The key element (and in many cases the only element) in therapeutic boarding schools and wilderness programs is isolation.
Isolation from all influences in the society - good AND bad:
Isolation from good things like friends, family and school.
But of course also bad things like alcohol, drugs, sex etc.
Some of the problems of understanding a teenager today is that your experience of being a teenager is some 20-40 years old.
I grew in the 1970's without internet and where drug users where corpselooking teenagers with a needle in their arms. See: Christiane F (http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christiane_F.). They do not look like that today. In every High School class in Denmark there are 2 or 3 drugusers and most of them manage to be occasionally users until they are about 25 , where most of them either quit or get killed. (It is so rare that a teenager is loosing he or her life due to druguse that it is frontpage news in all newspapers nationwide).
So if she had a good stay, it would not hurt her to go there a second time, but this time you should got with her a stay at her side all time, while they give you therapy. Perhaps then you will bond with her in a way you would ever hope to achieve.
Perhaps then you also would learn what you really put her through and she otherwise would never tell you before she turns 18 out of pure fear of being shipped off again.
You should try Aspen Family Camp (http://http://www.aspenfamilycamp.com/), but I have to warn you. When they used it in Brat Camp Uk the reality of wilderness therapy was so harsh on the parents, that a family did quit. That is a privilege a parent has. Such rights do children not have.
So try to learn to know your child. Let the next step be emotional growth for your boths (or in your case. An update to teenage life after the millennium).
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Thank you everyone. Actually my goal is and always has been to get to know her . Yes I know the problem is just not her. It is our family btw I am in therapy too and have been for awhile now
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There's also Mount Bachelor Academy (http://http://www.mountbacheloracademy.info/)!
If you're looking for real therapy you've come to the wrong place. There's nothing but abuse to be had here. Paying top dollar to send her off to some quacks isn't going to help anyone but the quacks. She hasn't actually done anything and you're talking about shipping her somewhere?
DON'T. Even the most cursory browsing of Fornits ought to teach you why. Take your money and your daughter and RUN LIKE HELL from anyone who says you ought to send her anywhere.
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I have looked the website over and one thing worries me.
They medicate and they seem to do it wrong. Look at the myspace group of former students. A girls seemed to have her kidneys destroyed during the stay.
Grove School Group (http://http://groups.myspace.com/groveschool)
See topic: former grovie...former problems
You also need to ask them how they handle runaways. You will never know how your child does it with homesickness. It could be a crime and time in juvenile hall if they call the police if she runs away. It is not like in my country where the police just locate them and tell the parents to phone them and arrange home transport, if the child want to.
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ICk the the reply on grove school . I saw it. Thanks for finding this for me. That is scary
I haven't made any decision.. Just looking ....
I thought P.U.R.E was maybe a great resource until I can here and found out all the crap about it.
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Hi
Hello.
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*Scratches head*
Something seems odd about all of this... Why do you want to send her away?
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Actually wilderness camp recommended it. She wanted to start HS at home so we said okay. No she hasn't been in trouble with the law. Past stuff lying, stealing, disrespect. She has tried achohol. She has a 100% chance of becoming on if she continues on that path because both her father and I are recovering. There is a strong genetic component. She is also very implusive . I don''t want to I am looking at all options including sending her to small private school which i think might be better then a big public one and she would live at home which we are all for if that is what will benefit her most. The more I read on these boards , the more scared I get about boarding school.
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Where is Grove School located?
Also your wilderness program has blood on it's hands according to ISAC (http://http://www.isaccorp.org/documentsam.asp#freer)
Three children died at Catherine Freer Wilderness Expeditions in just one year.
Another was seriously injured in 2005.
Information about two of the deaths can be found below.
For reasons unknown, we believe details of the other death were not released.
We encourage parents considering this program to exercise extreme caution.
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Get her one of these.
(http://http://www.robbinssports.com/sporting-goods-store/images/hip-hop-mat-hopscotch-colored-nylon-carpet.jpg)
If you can't afford it, you can use chalk, which is available at many stores including your town general store.
I know it sounds silly, but it worked with me. I was disrespecting teachers, I tried alcohol almost four times, had terrible restless leg syndrome, and ODD.
My parents tried everything, nothing worked. It wasn't until they found out about HopScotch therapy that I started to wean off the downward spiral that could of led to ditching and pot smoking or worse.
Now I am a college level HopScotch player, I got a full scholarship. I am doing very well. I own my own sports car, a small house, I have a beautiful spouse and even two fish! Things are bountiful and well at my house, rest assured of that.
I know it sounds simple, but that's it. All I needed was something to focus on in life. You would be surprised at the different levels of HopScotch these days, it can be very complicated and competitive, they are even thinking of making it an official olympic sport.
The picture I posted is just a beginner setup, but she can use chalk and get a book and draw more advanced courses, and at the same time improve her math and agility skills.
You don't need a program, just get her hopping.
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Yes I knew about the deaths at freer. Thanks for the suggestion on hopscoth therapy. I am looking it up now
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is in conn in the US
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Get her one of these.
If you can't afford it, you can use chalk, which is available at many stores including your town general store.
I know it sounds silly, but it worked with me. I was disrespecting teachers, I tried alcohol almost four times, had terrible restless leg syndrome, and ODD.
My parents tried everything, nothing worked. It wasn't until they found out about HopScotch therapy that I started to wean off the downward spiral that could of led to ditching and pot smoking or worse.
Now I am a college level HopScotch player, I got a full scholarship. I am doing very well. I own my own sports car, a small house, I have a beautiful spouse and even two fish! Things are bountiful and well at my house, rest assured of that.
I know it sounds simple, but that's it. All I needed was something to focus on in life. You would be surprised at the different levels of HopScotch these days, it can be very complicated and competitive, they are even thinking of making it an official olympic sport.
The picture I posted is just a beginner setup, but she can use chalk and get a book and draw more advanced courses, and at the same time improve her math and agility skills.
You don't need a program, just get her hopping.
That's a good one. I've heard this works wonders too.
http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-jokes.html (http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-jokes.html)
NEW RECOVERY GROUP
Recover From Twelve-Step Groups
We have a new thirteen-step program to help you recover from the evil influences of too many twelve-step recovery group meetings:
1. Admit that you are powerless over twelve-step meetings -- that your life has become unmanageable. Scream and pass out.
2. Come to believe that only Santa Claus can restore you to sanity.
3. Make a decision to give all of your problems to Santa Claus, as we understand Him.
4. Turn your will and your mind over to the care of Santa Claus. They were worthless anyway. Also stick him with those pesky problems.
5. Make a searching and fearless inventory of your garage. You won't believe the junk you will find in there.
6. Confess to everyone that you can't sing, you can't dance, your butt is too fat, and you have bad breath.
7. Make yourself entirely ready to have Santa Claus fix those defects.
8. Write a letter to Santa Claus, humbly begging him to remove all of your shortcomings.
9. Make a list of all of the people you have pissed off.
10. Go piss them off again.
11. Continue to inventory your garage, and when you find that you are hoarding some really useless junk, promptly admit it.
12. Seek, through your cell phone, to maintain constant contact with Santa Claus, as we understand Him. If you can't get Him, call a psychic hotline. Do whatever the old witch says.
13. Make twenty copies of this letter, put your name at the bottom, and send them to all of your friends.
Seriously, I can't even go near this one. Stepcraft strikes again.
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What made you think Sue Scheff, PURE might be a good resource? Who told you about her?
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[I just found the web site . Then I started looking for information on it and found out how bad it is from here
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I will to give an advice which is against my cultural background as a Dane living in a country where we have no limit of alcohol consumption and a 16 year limit on purchasing alcohol. Most Dane are introduced to alcohol when they are between 13-15 by their parents as a part of a old tradition (Our Christian confirmation - grade 7. The laws were made to get the youth past the boozing phase before they can drive a car and it works. Very few are killed in alcohol related accidents compare to the number in your country.). I realize that you live in another culture with other laws so here is my advice:
Small classes works - not small schools. Was matters is the time per student. It is costly. We have the most expensive public school in the world and we have a limit of 26 persons per class in our public school.
But that number is too high, when some children are having a problem. A relative of my wife has a daugther who lives at a school some 20 miles from home. She has a cell-phone on her all time, so she can phone her mother and the mother can phone her outside classes. It works. In the class they are only 8-10 students.
The daugther needs that because she can be violent if she encounters stress by being around too many people or the day suddenly becomes non-structured, which is the main reason for some student when they attend our public schools.
If you visit my daughters school, you will find very disrupted and non-structured. It is basicly a lot of noise and no student who will listen if they are not interested in your message. There is a point with that. In the adult workplace you are always interrupted by a phone, email or fellow co-workers. There is no peace. A school should prepare them to that.
Project managers in Denmark are often educated as what we calls chaos pilots (http://http://www.kaospilot.dk/docs/WhyKaosPilot.asp). We acknowledge that the world is chaos.
But some people can not take a non-structurel environment until they are prepared. They need structure but if you give it to them for too long, you are doing them a disservice. So you need to balance it for her. Send her to a school nearby where they have small classes for children with special needs. Keep her home outside school if possible. If you think that more treatment is needed, take it with her as I suggested with the family camp.
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Thank you and I am checking into the family camp
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Of course the wilderness camp recommended it. They get referral kickbacks.
The family camp is run by Aspen (http://http://www.aspeninstitute.info/). I think Covergaard is trying to make a dark point here, because he figures you aren't stupid enough to do these things to yourself.
For your daughter's sake, stop with the "we know she's going to end up like ... if we don't intervene" crap. That's bogus and/or self-fulfilling.
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Stepcraft...
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This would be a lot easier and streamlined if fornits could create a team of experts and an open FTP folder so these parents can upload their child's medical history and relevant information to the site. The panel of fornits experts can review this material and offer suggestions after they come to a consensus. I have a list of safe places to send children but without talking to you it's hard to make a bullet-proof suggestion. Some people think it's necessary to ask a kid if they think it's necessary but I think most (not all, namely minority children) kids these days have entitlement issues. Lack of action, lacks moral imperative. If you are raped you should become a rape prevention activists. If you are mugged you should become a police officer. This is how things work. Get off your butts and let's do it right now!
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[
actually agreed however when the behavior continues it is cause for concern. Actually my husband and I both considered doing one
quote="Guest"]Of course the wilderness camp recommended it. They get
referral kickbacks.
The family camp is run by Aspen (http://http://www.aspeninstitute.info/). I think Covergaard is trying to make a dark point here, because he figures you aren't stupid enough to do these things to yourself.
For your daughter's sake, stop with the "we know she's going to end up like ... if we don't intervene" crap. That's bogus and/or self-fulfilling.[/quote]
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It is correct that Aspen refers survivors from the wilderness to their boarding schools. But you do not have to follow their advice. One of the other families from Brat Camp did follow the advice and did send their daughter on to a school but pulled her when she talked about abuse. They had been in the wilderness themselves and had seen what the "counselors" could do, so unlike most parents they believed their daughter.
BTW: I can not find any wilderness program, who would not recommend a school placement after a stay.
Some may not say it directly that is IS needed, but they would say something like: "You may consider....."
Grove school is member at ISPA (http://http://www.ispaaac.com/about.htm#1), but I can not see the wilderness program your daughter attended anywhere, but sometime they have a one-to-one agreement of a little fee, if you take their advice.
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They didn't recommend grove. I found that on my own
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Stepcraft...
I'm telling ya. They're crazy.
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=22939 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=22939)
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21 days is a very short day. (Most programs want people to stay for 6 or 7 weeks, which is very odd because some companies does 1 and 2 weeks stay for adults claiming that there should be so much difference between an adult and a child that a child needs 5 weeks more.)
I found this article about a mom in the wilderness.
The Call of the Wild: A Wilderness Retreat (http://http://boomers.msn.com/articleMORE.aspx?cp-documentid=388012)
She tries to compare her stay with her child, but her stay is so short that it not even is close to the stay of a teenager. It is time measured unlike a normal stay.
As a nation we are heavily criticized because we sentence some people to prison without a time limit. It is claimed to be torture. I understand it. If a person does not know when he or she is free again it must be unbearable. So see to that any stay is time-limited.
Where do they offer a program with only 21 days? I could not locate it on their website.
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there first phase is 21 days. You can opt to stay for the second one which is 4 more weeks. She wanted to stay for the second part but didn't want to miss part of HS so we brought her home
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The 21 day wilderness crap didn't solve the problem.
What the fuck, exactly, makes you think more of the same crap will help? Of course they're going to say that they can fix your kid. They'll say anything they want as long as it gets them your money and your daughter. You've followed the links. You've read the horror stories. Why in the hell would you still be considering anything in this general area?
This whole mindset of forced-therapy, 'working the program', and overall piss-poor mental manipulation IS A CAUSE OF worse behavior, alcoholism, and drug abuse. The more you try to force in, especially if you're trying to make it not look like you're trying to force in, the MORE LIKELY it becomes that she's going to get worse.
Stop. Quit focusing on 'her behavior' like that means anything at all. Quit trying to parent her so goddamn much because it obviously isn't working. Step the hell back- WAY back- before she really goes nuts.
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21 days is short but i question the sanity of a person who sends their kid off to a program that had 3 deaths in one year and is listed on the ISAC watch list.
No she hasn't been in trouble with the law. Past stuff lying, stealing, disrespect. She has tried achohol. She has a 100% chance of becoming on if she continues on that path because both her father and I are recovering. There is a strong genetic component. She is also very implusive .
You seem to have some kind of fear drilled into you, my advice is not to send your kid to any program. I think even parents who think that residential treatment is needed in some cases would question your thinking here. Sending a kid off is not something you do for the problems you have described, thats just crazy.
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the best suggestion I have for me is to not read and or post anymore because a lot of angery ppl are on this thread with lots of judgements that dont know all the facts
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Well, I'm not angry but what has been described is just absurd...
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the best suggestion I have for me is to not read and or post anymore because a lot of angery ppl are on this thread with lots of judgements that dont know all the facts
I would really urge you not to do that. There is a wealth of information here for you.
I know you're gonna get pissed, but please read this site
http://www.orange-papers.org/ (http://www.orange-papers.org/)
paying particular attention to this
http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-gulags.html (http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-gulags.html)
while taking in all the information here.
Then read these.
http://www.ex-cult.org/General/lifton-criteria (http://www.ex-cult.org/General/lifton-criteria)
http://www.ex-cult.org/General/singer-conditions (http://www.ex-cult.org/General/singer-conditions)
http://www.ex-cult.org/bite.html (http://www.ex-cult.org/bite.html)
http://www.ex-cult.org/General/totalism-group-dynamics (http://www.ex-cult.org/General/totalism-group-dynamics)
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Here is some information about Rock Point. Mind you, I am not necessarily recommending them; I think your daughter should stay at home. But sometimes some distance is needed temporarily and perhaps this might fit the bill.
http://www.rockpoint.org/ (http://www.rockpoint.org/)
On the Struggling Teens website, there are some reviews of some places... I am always a bit suspicious of these reviews, as I do believe Lon gleans for positive ones and rejects negative ones based on trivial criteria, e.g., hostile tone, etc. At any rate, in the Hyde School section (which is where I was sent, and which I will passionately beseech you not to consider), there are 4 reviews, and one of them is negative. This family was deeply disturbed by what they and their daughter experienced at Hyde and pulled her. They transferred her to Rock Point. They then wrote a glowing review of Rock Point, which is also on that site. Their contact information should be with those reviews, although I can not vouch for how current it is. Their review (of Rock Point):
http://www.strugglingteens.com/news/let ... 50204.html (http://www.strugglingteens.com/news/lettertoeditor/reamersiegel050204.html)
One of the other Hyde posters on this forum actually saw fit to call the school up, and was duly impressed with their professionalism. I checked out their website, and I will say, even though the websites of a lot of these places look nice at the outset -- bearing little resemblance to the reality of experiencing them first hand, it is a very good sign when they actually profile all the relevant personnel there with pictures and details as to their credentials. These could be bogus, of course; believe it or not, that often happens.
There is also a post way back when on this site, where another registered user (Son of Serbia) describes Rock Point, and I do believe he is still posting. You could PM him for info, perspective, etc. This thread contains 2 other posters making reference to this school, both of them positive, although both of them admittedly with second-hand knowledge.
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=12344&&start=6 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=12344&&start=6)
I think you should stay away from anything that smacks of "emotional growth" or "therapeutic," as these tend to be oxymoronic at best. Look for a "normal" boarding school with small class size, as Covergaard says. Best option, in my humble opinion: have her stay at home, with community based therapy if needed.
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Also, do *NOT* assume that because there is a parental history of alcoholism or addiction that this means the child has a 100% of alcohol and other drug problems.
Most children of alcoholics DO NOT become alcoholics themselves. Genes give a predisposition, not a predestination. Even with both parents alcoholic, at least 60% do not become alcoholic-- and it's probably more (ie, real risk is likely much lower).
However, if you assume that any and all drinking = alcoholism and send her to a program that forces her to admit she's an alcoholic, you are raising, not lowering the odds of there being a problem.
The research shows that cognitive behavioral family therapy, functional family therapy, CRAFT family therapy are effective with troubled teens. It is way, way, way better to keep a child at home.
In fact, in psychiatry, it is a rule that you treat the patient in the "least restrictive setting." Remember, first do no harm-- don't assume that the child is going to behave badly and don't assume that teenage angst and disobedience is pathological.
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Also, do *NOT* assume that because there is a parental history of alcoholism or addiction that this means the child has a 100% of alcohol and other drug problems.
Most children of alcoholics DO NOT become alcoholics themselves. Genes give a predisposition, not a predestination. Even with both parents alcoholic, at least 60% do not become alcoholic-- and it's probably more (ie, real risk is likely much lower).
However, if you assume that any and all drinking = alcoholism and send her to a program that forces her to admit she's an alcoholic, you are raising, not lowering the odds of there being a problem.
The research shows that cognitive behavioral family therapy, functional family therapy, CRAFT family therapy are effective with troubled teens. It is way, way, way better to keep a child at home.
In fact, in psychiatry, it is a rule that you treat the patient in the "least restrictive setting." Remember, first do no harm-- don't assume that the child is going to behave badly and don't assume that teenage angst and disobedience is pathological.
That's exactly it. I try, lately at least, to stay out of these discussions. Trying to have a dialogue with a devout AA member is pointless. They're so set and determined that they are diseased and powerless and they, even if inadertently, pass that paranoia on to their kids. Witness my Straight vet friend whose son is convinced, absolutely beyond the shadow of a doubt convinced, that my daughter should be in rehab because she's 20 and drinks. There is no exaggeration to this. He, along with and because of his mother, truly believe that this kid....based solely on their viewing of a picture on MySpace that showed her with a beer in her hand. That's it, honest to god. And this is my good kid. :rofl: , Kidding, kidding. Sort of. She did give me the least lip, but they're both great kids. :rofl:
Parent, peruse the Orange Pages. http://www.orange-papers.org/ (http://www.orange-papers.org/) Check out the mail section to be sure. He has a lot of angry people writing to him with all the same things that must be going through your head as you read. Please don't be afraid. Read with an open mind. You're going to be amazed.
http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-effectiveness.html (http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-effectiveness.html)
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I agree whole-heartedly with the poster who just made the comments re. alcoholism (genetic vs. environmental influences) and the value of (community-based) family therapy.
I feel I should also say a word about why some posters here are being very passionate about their positions, a piece of history of which "concerned parent" may be less than aware of. Please see the following thread, which contains a recent article re. the evolution of many of these type of "emotional growth" and "wilderness therapy" places.
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=22874 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=22874)
It is woefully brief, and somewhat incomplete, but it does give a picture that a person can take in in one sitting without being overwhelmed by the vast and sordid landscape this business comprises.
There is a helpful graph, a few posts further in than the first one, which describes the interconnectedness of many of these institutions, a family tree, if you will, of how these places have descended and evolved from one another.
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(http://http://www.thegreatdepression.co.uk/wp-content/img/endofpro.JPG)
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(http://http://www.thegreatdepression.co.uk/wp-content/img/endofpro.JPG)
That news paper is an Alcoholic!!!
10 years sober, thanks AA!! ::bwahaha::
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He, along with and because of his mother, truly believe that this kid....based solely on their viewing of a picture on MySpace that showed her with a beer in her hand.
A 20 year old girl pictured with a beer? Clear proof of breaking the law. If I saw this I would call the police, because that is what my program taught me to do. All I have is the program since I have no friends, I ratted them all out. I don't regret it though. I couldn't live with myself if I didn't stand up for my principles.
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This gave me hope.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/06-278.ZD.html (http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/06-278.ZD.html)
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yes I am still reading
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I was actually told when I went through treatment years ago that is it heredity. Where did you get this information and the statistics. It is good to know and I don't go to AA anymore. It was valuable for along time and I still don't drink
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thanks for the link to redrock.
Staying home would save me lots of $$$
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yes I am still reading
Have you taken your daughter back to school shopping yet?
Or I guess you would call it back to program shopping?
There are some good deals at Sears and Walmart this year.
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Yes I have for school shopping she found tons of stuff at TJ maxx
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I was actually told when I went through treatment years ago that is it heredity. Where did you get this information and the statistics. It is good to know and I don't go to AA anymore. It was valuable for along time and I still don't drink
I didn't get any of the info. Agent Orange has collected, documented, footnoted and credited all the information he posts. It'll take you weeks, but just read through. They guy isn't some whacked out psycho. Some of his hatemail are whacked out psychos, but you'll see. He rebutts them with facts, backed up by legitimate sources.
That site and this one were the most helpful to me, factually speaking.
http://www.ex-cult.org/ (http://www.ex-cult.org/)
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Can you smoke a joint, bump a rail or have a drink without feeling somehow nervous and uneasy? If not, youre still brainwashed. Pot helps with this.
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thanks for the link
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I was actually told when I went through treatment years ago that is it heredity.
That's another lie. No one has ever proven that. It's spin.
http://alcalc.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/co ... ll/36/2/99 (http://alcalc.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/36/2/99)
There's lots more out there.
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thanks where do you get this grea tstuff from...
about smoking or drinking I choose not to I have better things to do with my life
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I was actually told when I went through treatment years ago that is it heredity. Where did you get this information and the statistics. It is good to know and I don't go to AA anymore. It was valuable for along time and I still don't drink
There is such a thing as a genetic predisposition, which is still not the same thing as a sure thing. Some people are more likely, biochemically, to develop, after prolonged and intense usage, an "addiction."
There is also such a thing as an "environmental predisposition," namely, if you hang around people who are constantly abusing it or grow up in an environment where your family is, it is more likely that you will too. Still not a sure thing.
Teenage experimentation does not usually end up turning into an addiction, at least as far as alcohol is concerned (maybe with some of the more powerful drugs, e.g., heroin or morphine, that is thought to be possible...). It usually takes a long time of going past reasonable limits before your body changes, physiologically, to where one might be considered "addicted." Again, some people are more prone to this than others, genetically, but again, this is still not a sure thing.
Many of the earlier studies on alcoholism were seriously flawed by political bias and are now being debunked.
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thanks for the clarification
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There is such a thing as a genetic predisposition, which is still not the same thing as a sure thing. Some people are more likely, biochemically, to develop, after prolonged and intense usage, an "addiction."
There is also such a thing as an "environmental predisposition," namely, if you hang around people who are constantly abusing it or grow up in an environment where your family is, it is more likely that you will too. Still not a sure thing.
Teenage experimentation does not usually end up turning into an addiction, at least as far as alcohol is concerned (maybe with some of the more powerful drugs, e.g., heroin or morphine, that is thought to be possible...). It usually takes a long time of going past reasonable limits before your body changes, physiologically, to where one might be considered "addicted." Again, some people are more prone to this than others, genetically, but again, this is still not a sure thing.
Many of the earlier studies on alcoholism were seriously flawed by political bias and are now being debunked.
Yep. Even if someone early on isn't the most responsible with it (almost every teenager I've ever known), it's not the death sentence that AA would (literally) have you believe.
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Yeah the AA types push some weak shit..
I remember Rachel, or some other AARC(Straight inc, cult with AA overtones) survivor, saying how they would call non drug/alcohol users dry drunks, wtf???
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thanks for the link to redrock.
Staying home would save me lots of $$$
NOT RedRock, ROCK POINT! Red Rock is bad news, an RTC affiliated with WWASPS, if I'm not mistaken?
Rock Point is a tiny boarding school, ~40 students, class size approx. 4-12 students per teacher, depending on the subject matter.
http://www.rockpoint.org/ (http://www.rockpoint.org/)
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Yeah be careful with RED, many programs have red in the name...
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[
I meant rock point
NOT RedRock, ROCK POINT! Red Rock is bad news, an RTC affiliated with WWASPS, if I'm not mistaken?
Rock Point is a tiny boarding school, ~40 students, class ratio approx. 4-12 students per teacher, depending on class.
http://www.rockpoint.org/ (http://www.rockpoint.org/)[/quote]
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[
thanks
quote="Guest"][
I meant rock point
NOT RedRock, ROCK POINT! Red Rock is bad news, an RTC affiliated with WWASPS, if I'm not mistaken?
Rock Point is a tiny boarding school, ~40 students, class ratio approx. 4-12 students per teacher, depending on class.
http://www.rockpoint.org/ (http://www.rockpoint.org/)[/quote][/quote]
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Why send this kid to any boarding school? her problems just dont sound too bad. I would argue sending her to boarding school because of " problems" and not because boarding school is a family tradition or because she specifically wants to go for some reason sends the message that you are unable to cope with her adolescence.
She will probably just grow out of this.
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thanks where do you get this grea tstuff from...
From reading things that have been written by people who still retain their critical thinking skills. If you're immersed in Stepcraft, you've buried that ability.
about smoking or drinking I choose not to I have better things to do with my life
Other things maybe, but don't be so judgmental. You don't know if they're better or not.
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How do you know these schools are safe, effective and/or even necessary?
If your suggestion led to a child's injury, death or suicide, would you take responsibility for the placement?
I don't understand how people can be so casual about offering private prisons like this lady is asking for a nice restaurant to take her family.
Surreal.
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Why send this kid to any boarding school? her problems just dont sound too bad. I would argue sending her to boarding school because of " problems" and not because boarding school is a family tradition or because she specifically wants to go for some reason sends the message that you are unable to cope with her adolescence.
She will probably just grow out of this.
^^^^
This.
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I am not sending her anywhere at the moment or in the next month even if ever. Just looking and reading
uote="Oz girl"]Why send this kid to any boarding school? her problems just dont sound too bad. I would argue sending her to boarding school because of " problems" and not because boarding school is a family tradition or because she specifically wants to go for some reason sends the message that you are unable to cope with her adolescence.
She will probably just grow out of this.[/quote]
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I am not sending her anywhere at the moment or in the next month even if ever. Just looking and reading
uote="Oz girl"]Why send this kid to any boarding school? her problems just dont sound too bad. I would argue sending her to boarding school because of " problems" and not because boarding school is a family tradition or because she specifically wants to go for some reason sends the message that you are unable to cope with her adolescence.
She will probably just grow out of this.[/quote]
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[about smoking or drinking I choose not to I have better things to do with my life
well for me better. don'tknow about for others]
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[about smoking or drinking I choose not to I have better things to do with my life
well for me better. don'tknow about for others]
I'm not saying it is or isn't. I can't say that for anyone, obviously. I just know that I thought and bought into that just like you are and once I let go of the fear, read up with a clear view and woke up, I realized I had been played.
If you're happy with what it's done for you, great. jReally. I understand the kind of comfort it brings you, but that's all it is. You're not powerless. You don't need to 'admit your wrongs" to anyone but yourself and those you feel it's important to. You don't need to "thoroughly follow" anyone's path but your own.
I was looking for more than what I found in AA. I couldn't even begin to discover it until I let go of all that crap.
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well for me better. don'tknow about for others][/quote]
I was looking for more than what I found in AA. I couldn't even begin to discover it until I let go of all that crap.[/quote]
Glad you found what you were looking for
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Well hopefully you will remember this as she grows up and starts acting asa teenager more and more. If you are already over reacting when she is 14 what happens when is 16 going to parties and getting drunk like all teenagers do. That's what worries me, is not right now, just the fact the way this AA parent over reacts is very familiar. And like this kid I was sent to my first "soft" program at a young age, progressively getting worse and worse. I hope you remember what you read here. But seriously, you hold yourself to a standard and judge your kid with this twisted moralistic AA cult like view on the world, where "common sense" therapy (brutality) makes sense. It's just the way that culture is, you'd be surprised how many kids who ultimately ended up in programs, spent their entire lives in strict AA families in one fashion or another. It's a disturbing pattern, can't say we didn't warn ya though.
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Well hopefully you will remember this as she grows up and starts acting asa teenager more and more. If you are already over reacting when she is 14 what happens when is 16 going to parties and getting drunk like all teenagers do. That's what worries me, is not right now, just the fact the way this AA parent over reacts is very familiar. And like this kid I was sent to my first "soft" program at a young age, progressively getting worse and worse. I hope you remember what you read here. But seriously, you hold yourself to a standard and judge your kid with this twisted moralistic AA cult like view on the world, where "common sense" therapy (brutality) makes sense. It's just the way that culture is, you'd be surprised how many kids who ultimately ended up in programs, spent their entire lives in strict AA families in one fashion or another. It's a disturbing pattern, can't say we didn't warn ya though.
Got it
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How do you know these schools are safe, effective and/or even necessary?
If your suggestion led to a child's injury, death or suicide, would you take responsibility for the placement?
I don't understand how people can be so casual about offering private prisons like this lady is asking for a nice restaurant to take her family.
Surreal.
I agree in principle, but please take the time to read my original post, filled with personal disclaimers as well as personal recommendations to stay at home, as well as providing links to other people's posts on this forum and elsewhere who have described personal experience with this particular school.
I think Rock Point is actually a pretty normal boarding school, whose primary selling point is small size and hence more individualized attention. Not exactly a "private prison," which you would have readily acknowledged had you bothered to read the post or read the links, as that particular issue was brought up by Son of Serbia in one of the links provided. I brought this school up in case a smaller class size was what was needed (as Covergaard suggested), or in case some breathing space was in order.
Son of Serbia went to a CEDU school prior to attending Rock Point and hence has ample perspective with which to compare the two. This was when he made his previously noted post, and may or may not be his opinion as of now. That point was also made by me in my original post regarding this, I believe, and if I neglected to mention that, shame on me for that point alone.
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How do you know these schools are safe, effective and/or even necessary?
If your suggestion led to a child's injury, death or suicide, would you take responsibility for the placement?
I don't understand how people can be so casual about offering private prisons like this lady is asking for a nice restaurant to take her family.
Surreal.
I agree in principle, but please take the time to read my original post, filled with personal disclaimers as well as personal recommendations to stay at home, as well as providing links to other people's posts on this forum and elsewhere who have described personal experience with this particular school.
I think Rock Point is actually a pretty normal boarding school, whose primary selling point is small size and hence more individualized attention. Not exactly a "private prison," which you would have readily acknowledged had you bothered to read the post or read the links, as that particular issue was brought up by Son of Serbia in one of the links provided. I brought this school up in case a smaller class size was what was needed (as Covergaard suggested), or in case some breathing space was in order.
Son of Serbia went to a CEDU school prior to attending Rock Point and hence has ample perspective with which to compare the two. This was when he made his previously noted post, and may or may not be his opinion as of now. That point was also made by me in my original post regarding this, I believe, and if I neglected to mention that, shame on me for that point alone.
{sorry I wanted to make sure this was still in the thread about a 14 year old girl who is in trouble for extremely minor things, right then}
So why suggest a school at all? If a retard walks up to you and asks where the nearest cliff is at, he has a trash-bag parachute he spent all night making and wants to test it out. Are you going to point to the direction of the cliff?
It's no different with these parents. Think of them like retards, or cattle. They will do whatever you say. So why not tell them to keep the kid at home? If everyone tells them this, and like the other poster is trying to suggest, this lady is over reacting and is quite possibly brainwashed by AA over reactionism in it's finest.
It might be a great 'program' or school or whatever it is. But why does a 14 year old girl deserve to be plucked from her budding life, and sent to some boarding school? IN what reality does this make sense? Only in the fornits reality that you are morally obligated to offer these parents some sort of softer option more to their liking than to serve them up the cold reality that they, are in fact, over reacting.
I've been in horrible programs and nice ones, but I would never suggest it to some strange parent on the internet who says her 14 year old stole something and might of tasted alcohol.
From the perspective of a 14 year old, going from having a free life with friends and a high school experience, to a closed, extremely small school is "private prison", or do you think this 14 year old would send you a thank-you letter from her strict school thanking you for telling her overly suggestive parent this advice?
I'm going to guess ... not.
Perspective people. These are all normal kids. Completely normal. It's their parents who are misguided and neurotic. To save them from a horrible experience such as WWASP, does not require a sentence of a softer program. This equation is dangerous and I can't express how much I disagree with it.
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she's prolly gonna keep her home. $$ is an issue and she's looking for an excuse not to spend it. the fundie home environment is prolly why the kid wanted to go bak for more wilderness. prolly the 1st time she's not under that watchful eye.
well... gotta say to the rest of the arging, i myself had super strict upbringing, not fundie, but insanely strict, and i ended up at a TBS. had my parents sent me to a regular normal boarding school insted, which they had been considering, i woulda been happier than a pig in shit. friends or no friends bak home, wouldnt ha mattered. freedomm from that insane strictness wouldve been sheer bliss, not "private prison"
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No she hasn't been in trouble with the law. Past stuff lying, stealing, disrespect. She has tried achohol.
Sounds pretty serious.
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It's no different with these parents. Think of them like retards, or cattle.
:rofl:
Wow, Paul's got a run for his money here. What have you been reading?
It's still so, so true. This poster wins the thread.
And anonymous parent: If you don't like that particular turn of phrase, guess what the programmies think of you!
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{sorry I wanted to make sure this was still in the thread about a 14 year old girl who is in trouble for extremely minor things, right then}
So why suggest a school at all? If a retard walks up to you and asks where the nearest cliff is at, he has a trash-bag parachute he spent all night making and wants to test it out. Are you going to point to the direction of the cliff?
It's no different with these parents. Think of them like retards, or cattle. They will do whatever you say. So why not tell them to keep the kid at home? If everyone tells them this, and like the other poster is trying to suggest, this lady is over reacting and is quite possibly brainwashed by AA over reactionism in it's finest.
It might be a great 'program' or school or whatever it is. But why does a 14 year old girl deserve to be plucked from her budding life, and sent to some boarding school? IN what reality does this make sense? Only in the fornits reality that you are morally obligated to offer these parents some sort of softer option more to their liking than to serve them up the cold reality that they, are in fact, over reacting.
I've been in horrible programs and nice ones, but I would never suggest it to some strange parent on the internet who says her 14 year old stole something and might of tasted alcohol.
From the perspective of a 14 year old, going from having a free life with friends and a high school experience, to a closed, extremely small school is "private prison", or do you think this 14 year old would send you a thank-you letter from her strict school thanking you for telling her overly suggestive parent this advice?
I'm going to guess ... not.
Perspective people. These are all normal kids. Completely normal. It's their parents who are misguided and neurotic. To save them from a horrible experience such as WWASP, does not require a sentence of a softer program. This equation is dangerous and I can't express how much I disagree with it.
Yep yep. Very well put.
:nworthy: :nworthy:
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I really don't think lying, disrespect, stealing, a sense of entitlement refusing to put forth effort in school are thing all normal 14 year olds do at least not the ones I know.
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Speaking of entitlement issues, parents who utilize program services think they are entitled to pay people to kidnap and hurt their children.
"There are no bad kids only bad parents"
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The reason your 14 year old isn't treating you with respect is because you aren't worth any respect.
Chew on that sentence for a while. Masticate it thoroughly. Consider the ramifications. For it is, in fact, true.
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you ppl are with your words. how about dealig with your anger in a productive way instead of abusing others with your words
The reason your 14 year old isn't treating you with respect is because you aren't worth any respect.
Chew on that sentence for a while. Masticate it thoroughly. Consider the ramifications. For it is, in fact, true.
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The reason your 14 year old isn't treating you with respect is because you aren't worth any respect.
Chew on that sentence for a while. Masticate it thoroughly. Consider the ramifications. For it is, in fact, true.
It is amazing how abusive you ppl are with your words. how about dealig with your anger in a productive way instead of abusing others with your words
It's amazing that a kid who has done absolutely nothing wrong, according to her own mother's postings, and she's already sent her to Catherine Freer
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t= ... w=previous (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=13479&view=previous)
and now she's off searching for even more fun for her daughter.
I'm sorry. AA and the entire mentality is behind this travesty. It's sick, it's tragic and it sucks.
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The reason your 14 year old isn't treating you with respect is because you aren't worth any respect.
Chew on that sentence for a while. Masticate it thoroughly. Consider the ramifications. For it is, in fact, true.
That's unfair, how do you know that?
The reason is more likely to be that its ecause she's a 14 yr old girl, they don't do respect, they're self centred and confused about whether they are woman or child, one minute we tell them to grow the hell up, the next, they want to do something and we tell them they can't, they are only a child and have to do as we say
it's tough being a teen, even tougher being the mother of one for sure
To the mum...dont send her away, arm her with all the information you can, support her and discuss your fears with her, shes more likely to understand where you're coming from with this approach than one that sends a clear message that she's goig to get sent away again, plus did you know teens have an uncanny abiolity to block you out when you shout?
She'll respect you more for treating her for what she is, a confused woman child
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agreed. I know 14 is a confusting age. However a lot of the behaviors have been going on long before teens years. They are just more intensified now. She isn't going anywhere accept maybe to a private school at the suggestion of therapist. There is less negative peer influences there.
quote="Guest"]The reason your 14 year old isn't treating you with respect is because you aren't worth any respect.
Chew on that sentence for a while. Masticate it thoroughly. Consider the ramifications. For it is, in fact, true.
That's unfair, how do you know that?
The reason is more likely to be that its ecause she's a 14 yr old girl, they don't do respect, they're self centred and confused about whether they are woman or child, one minute we tell them to grow the hell up, the next, they want to do something and we tell them they can't, they are only a child and have to do as we say
it's tough being a teen, even tougher being the mother of one for sure
To the mum...dont send her away, arm her with all the information you can, support her and discuss your fears with her, shes more likely to understand where you're coming from with this approach than one that sends a clear message that she's goig to get sent away again, plus did you know teens have an uncanny abiolity to block you out when you shout?
She'll respect you more for treating her for what she is, a confused woman child[/quote]
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agreed. I know 14 is a confusting age. However a lot of the behaviors have been going on long before teens years. They are just more intensified now. She isn't going anywhere accept maybe to a private school at the suggestion of therapist. There is less negative peer influences there.
quote="Guest"]The reason your 14 year old isn't treating you with respect is because you aren't worth any respect.
Chew on that sentence for a while. Masticate it thoroughly. Consider the ramifications. For it is, in fact, true.
That's unfair, how do you know that?
The reason is more likely to be that its ecause she's a 14 yr old girl, they don't do respect, they're self centred and confused about whether they are woman or child, one minute we tell them to grow the hell up, the next, they want to do something and we tell them they can't, they are only a child and have to do as we say
it's tough being a teen, even tougher being the mother of one for sure
To the mum...dont send her away, arm her with all the information you can, support her and discuss your fears with her, shes more likely to understand where you're coming from with this approach than one that sends a clear message that she's goig to get sent away again, plus did you know teens have an uncanny abiolity to block you out when you shout?
She'll respect you more for treating her for what she is, a confused woman child[/quote]
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Actually wilderness camp recommended it. She wanted to start HS at home so we said okay. No she hasn't been in trouble with the law. Past stuff lying, stealing, disrespect. She has tried achohol. She has a 100% chance of becoming on if she continues on that path because both her father and I are recovering. There is a strong genetic component. She is also very implusive . I don''t want to I am looking at all options including sending her to small private school which i think might be better then a big public one and she would live at home which we are all for if that is what will benefit her most. The more I read on these boards , the more scared I get about boarding school.
People, people. This is a parent freaking out. What has this kid done that is so awful? She's growing up! Jesus, you guys have already started the programming process. Get your heads OUT of stepcraft and back into reality. Reclaim your critical thinking skills. Trust that you've instilled enough sense in her that, although she may do stupid and impulsive things that will no doubt terrify you (I've been there. With two girls.) fShe'll make it. She may not do it the way and in the time frame you'd like, but this is just ridiculous. This is about control. Quit trying to force this stuff on her. That's just crazy. You're going to do far more damage trying to fix something that's not broken.
This is the kind of shit that I can't deal with. I just get so frustrated.
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There is less negative peer influences there.
How do you know that?
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What has this kid done that is so awful?
Lost the genetic lottery.
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Honestly parent......
Anne Bonney's right, she's not doing anything so drastic, it's scary and I know how you feel about it getting out of control, but really, they do this stuff, its normal to not be normal if you like, its just a rebellion against what society expects of her, I've been through this with 3 boys and they are all still alive, just about admittedly because I swear i've wanted to kill them enough times, but they are alive, they have never killed or mugged anyone, they still need a kick up the butt now and then, but even after everything I have been through and am still goign through, I am still glad I never sent them away, being a parent is worrying and scary and of course your child is going to make you grey before your time, just grit your teeth and bear with her, she'll soon bore of it all as she matures, and especialy when she thinks it isn't getting at you anymore.
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Another control freak asshole parent,they drive me up a wall and back down again.
Asshole parent, stop being a control freak and have confidence in your daughter that she won't grow up to be a control freak, asshole parent like you.
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Another control freak asshole parent,they drive me up a wall and back down again.
Asshole parent, stop being a control freak and have confidence in your daughter that she won't grow up to be a control freak, asshole parent like you.
:rofl: :tup:
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She's scared and with good reason considering what shes been led to believe
hows about trying to encoutrage this parent to relax and find out who her daughter really is rather than run her off the bioard into the arms of some ed con who'll be seeing $$ signs
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She's scared and with good reason considering what shes been led to believe
hows about trying to encoutrage this parent to relax and find out who her daughter really is rather than run her off the bioard into the arms of some ed con who'll be seeing $$ signs
Who said Edcons aren't on this board right now? :rofl:
BTW, check your spelling, and stop posting drunk. Go straddle someone's cock and sweat it all out of your system or something, sheesh.
BTW didnt you have it in with your sons over porn once? Why not go lend him a hand? 8-)
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Your kid in therapy? Why don't you just let her kill herself lol. I mean, seriously, therapy? and home schooling? Damn bitch, if you want to teach someone to swim, throw them in the fucking pool, don't ease them into a retarded sense of false security. You're the very definition of a terrible parent - fuck what everyone else does, if you limit your child's development by being so anally involved in their life, you're just ruining it. Seriously, let the little fucking cuntbox kill itself, it's just dead weight. Maybe it'll teach you a lesson on how to parent right. Idiot.
Well, if you want to send your kid to a camp, go right ahead. At least that ensures she gets raped 3 ways from Tuesday before she kills herself in a frightful manner.
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Try for something like Peninsula Village. They'll be too busy having her tied down in a bed (or elsewhere) being kept awake and tortured or raped to hurt herself or get away, EVER.
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She's scared and with good reason considering what shes been led to believe
hows about trying to encoutrage this parent to relax and find out who her daughter really is rather than run her off the bioard into the arms of some ed con who'll be seeing $$ signs
Yeah, scared because she is so used to being a control freak and the nanosecond her daughter does something that she remotely disagrees with,she starts hyperventilating.
Yes, she needs to relax but she should not have allowed it to to get this point.If she would listen to her daughter, be reasonable, she wouldn't have to go on any forum looking for advice on anything to do with her and her daughter's relationship.
There is NOTHING WRONG WITH HER DAUGHTER,SHE IS THE PROBLEM. You can't solve the problem unless you work on the problem and SHE IS THE PROBLEM.
Now if she came on a forum looking for advice on how to stop being a control freak,asshole parent, then I would say that she acknowledges that SHE IS THE PROBLEM and is taking a good first step in solving the problem.
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Yeah AAers should be familiar with steps, joking aside... Chillout lady you got a normal kid, blame God j/k don't strike me down Lord
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Yeah AAers should be familiar with steps, joking aside... Chillout lady you got a normal kid, blame God j/k don't strike me down Lord
Watch yourself there my man.
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Anal gang rape can be an important component of Positive Peer Culture. It has a tendency to teach kids a little humility.
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some of you members of very sick and need some serious help. Sick Sick People
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some of you members of very sick and need some serious help. Sick Sick People
If you are right, then you have to ask yourself how they got to be like that.
But look at the bottom line: What is the case here?
We have a 14 year old girl. She is trying to act like an adult and make adult decisions like most teenagers. Some decisions are good and some bad.
The parents are properly at my age and were teenagers during the 70's and 80's.
The world did not look like the world today back then. That we regarded as fact and boundaries are not existing today. The fact that I can write this is proof enough. There were no internet back then. There were no cell-phones. Naugty messages were passed in the classes to other children the parents could see. Not a stranger in another town or another country. Back in my days we had to buy porn in a shop where our parent could be either a customer or a employee. Now it is a click away and with parents busy doing their own job, none is around to tell the child if BDSM is like things should be normally done or a hobby for the few.
So the parents of this girl do have good reasons to be worried. They do not know how the life of a teenager is today and because your country have criminalized some of the normal teenager stuff, the parents can not go for a walk to the place where all the city knows that youth hangs out and drink to talk to their child.
So they turn to the so-called profs. And when money comes into the picture, someone is getting rich at their expense. That is not the worst part. The worst part is that they are actually kept from the solution. The solution is communication. Undisturbed communication!
Among all the programs, there are offered, only one type is useful when we are talking normal teenager behavior. That is family therapy programs.
The case is that the child is lying. Where did she get it from? From the parent. If you are a parent (I am), you will properly have lied to your child already (I have done that. "A mouse have eaten the chocolate" was my answer to my 3 year old daughter at the time. A couple of years later was it her answer to me.)
Some may argue that family therapy can be done at home and for the most part it is true. But are you really at peace in your own house. Do you not answer your phone, cell-phone or email? I do.
So the next-best thing is to go to a remote place where you can get some kind of support because you as parent is too close to the situation and you are not updated. This girls parents were not updated. They also need support and perhaps even at much treatment as the girls does - maybe even more.
The girl is also stealing and that should be regarded as sign that she is asking for help. Something in her life is so painful that she can not speak about it. Are there other signs? Is she cutting herself on the top of it, so some of the pain can go away? This is clearly a question about the parents being able to listen and learn.
So I recommended the only program Aspen had, that is not abusive by nature: The family program.
It is the only program that can be stopped at any time because the parents can leave if they or their child are violated. Better solutions could be at hand, but it demands that the parents for once are able to cut all the disturbance from the daily life away for the time that is needed and I do not think that they are able to achieve that in their home.
What do you think that they should do?
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Cover, there is nothing wrong with this kid. From the mums own admission!!! The mom needs to work on here own fears and leave her daughter alone and trust me if Aspen gets a hold to this lady they will have her convinced that the kid needs the programing we all know and love.
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Cover, there is nothing wrong with this kid. From the mums own admission!!! The mom needs to work on here own fears and leave her daughter alone and trust me if Aspen gets a hold to this lady they will have her convinced that the kid needs the programing we all know and love.
Cover thanks for your response and I never said there was nothing wrong lying , stealing, cutting , disrespect, yes all of those things aren't normal behavior and we are in family therapy too.
I have checked in to aspen family there is nothing here in the US. I am not doing anything with her at the moment. She has lost lots of priveleges due to not following the family contract and it will remain that way until things change with her that is the only thing happening now
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She's scared and with good reason considering what shes been led to believe
Nah, she started seeking 'help' for her daughter because she was 'disrespectful and would end up being an alcoholic'. This is a fundie nutbag that can't handle the fact that her daughter has a mind of her own.
hows about trying to encoutrage this parent to relax and find out who her daughter really is rather than run her off the bioard into the arms of some ed con who'll be seeing $$ signs
She's gone already. Someone who's that drunk on Kool Aid ain't gonna be too receptive to this. But I do hate to see these conversations go south.
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She has lost lots of priveleges due to not following the family contract
::noway:: ::puke::
You have no business talking to remotely sane people. Get the fuck off this forum. I only hope she cuts your goddamn throat- ear to fucking ear, with a six inch blade- for this kind of shit.
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Parent: You've taught her your values; if she's smart, she's picked up some just by living w/you. Now you freak when she displays independence. Makes some bad choices. and Every decision you make is dead-on, best-for-all-concerned.
Always?
:nworthy:
Then teach her: ALWAYS...
...tell the truth.
...keep your word.
...treat everyone the way you want to be treated.
...if it isn't yours, don't touch it.
These are part of parenting: what have you been doing? :flame:
Now you're looking for outside help: Here! You do it for me :exclaim: = shattered trust. You can't repair that.*
I was not abused or mistreated in any way. NO rotten food, threats, hours of being come-down-on. Which was good in a way: I put on a happy-face :wave: and spent all my time in my head wondering howhy my parents could possibly have stopped loving me. Spent 36 years trying to 'fix' that.*
...don't choose this. Do not let that child out of your home. If this is okay w/you now, why not just adopt her out when she was born?
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Cover, there is nothing wrong with this kid. From the mums own admission!!! The mom needs to work on here own fears and leave her daughter alone and trust me if Aspen gets a hold to this lady they will have her convinced that the kid needs the programing we all know and love.
Cover thanks for your response and I never said there was nothing wrong lying , stealing, cutting , disrespect, yes all of those things aren't normal behavior and we are in family therapy too.
I have checked in to aspen family there is nothing here in the US. I am not doing anything with her at the moment. She has lost lots of priveleges due to not following the family contract and it will remain that way until things change with her that is the only thing happening now
[/b]
Cover, this lady is nuts!!
Dude you sound like a wwasps parent. You sent her to a dangerous program that had three deaths in 04/05, you spew AA bs about her possible becoming an Alcoholic because you and hubby were one, come her looking for Residential placement because she is disrespectful and now have her on a contract ala wwasps?!?!
My God I pray this kid turns 18 soon, or gets wise and runs the fuck away... Far far away cause you, mom, are dangerous.
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Cover thanks for your response and I never said there was nothing wrong lying , stealing, cutting , disrespect, yes all of those things aren't normal behavior and we are in family therapy too.
Those are fairly normal teen behaviors, with the possible exception of the cutting. But DAMN woman!! I might be cutting too if I had to try and develop a personality of my own under the extreme constriction and your vehemence in trying to make her conform to what YOU want her to be. She's a growing woman with a developing mind of her own. Why are you trying to stunt that? She sounds like a pretty typical teen with pretty typical reactions to being stifled.
I have checked in to aspen family there is nothing here in the US. I am not doing anything with her at the moment. She has lost lots of priveleges due to not following the family contract and it will remain that way until things change with her that is the only thing happening now
Lose the family contract and just talk to your kid. You can't "run" a family like it's a business.
:roll:
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ot: Why are my words so big?
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ot: Why are my words so big?
Hit the 'edit' button and highlight your text Then choose "normal" in the font size. Don't know how it happened but that'll fix it.
I thought you did that for emphasis. It was needed.
:D
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[we had had a family contract for months created with her therapist. If I listened to you people i would take her out of therapy and let her do whatever she wants. Then add this in too. Why not give her a cell phone and let her stay out all night too and give her unlimited money. Let her run wild if i did things according to some of your suggestions. I am sooooooo in the wroong place
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For what you claim is her problems she don't need therapy just space. Ever heard of over treating someone? It drives people crazy.
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[we had had a family contract for months created with her therapist. If I listened to you people i would take her out of therapy and let her do whatever she wants. Then add this in too. Why not give her a cell phone and let her stay out all night too and give her unlimited money. Let her run wild if i did things according to some of your suggestions. I am sooooooo in the wroong place
I was sent to Straight on the recommendation of a 'therapist', so just because someone has some letters after his name doesn't make him or her qualified to raise YOUR child. That's YOUR job. Quit trying to make her a little you.
I have two grown children. The oldest gave me nightmares and fits for 5 years or more. I DO understand what it's like to be a scared parent. YOU, however, at least from what you've posted here, do not. She's reacting your your extreme control. Of course I'm not suggesting she have no rules or consequences, but they have to make sense and fit the crime. Stealing, lying, manipulating, being moody, sullen, depressed, change of friends, anger and a host of others are all NORMAL PARTS OF GROWING UP. Stop stifling this child!!!!
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An in addition to what Anne posted, you don't send someone away for these things.
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some of you members of very sick and need some serious help. Sick Sick People
Welcome to the dark side, for you too are a member now.
:rofl:
Now will someone please come up with a good 'member' joke? You guys are slacking.
:(
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We need our members spanked regularly
::both::
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She's scared and with good reason considering what shes been led to believe
hows about trying to encoutrage this parent to relax and find out who her daughter really is rather than run her off the bioard into the arms of some ed con who'll be seeing $$ signs
Who said Edcons aren't on this board right now? :rofl:
BTW, check your spelling, and stop posting drunk. Go straddle someone's cock and sweat it all out of your system or something, sheesh.
BTW didnt you have it in with your sons over porn once? Why not go lend him a hand? 8-)
Get your facts right or STFU....I did tell the board about my sons having porn once, but if you go back and read the post I said I wasn't worried, I found it to be NORMAL growing up stuff
As for the rest of my post, I was trying to say what Hanzomon said, she just needs to relax and realise this is normal child/teen behaviour, they do this shit & come out the other side, usually cringing they've been so daft.
If you can't read what i post then I suggest you skip it, however, I believe you could read it, spelling mistakes included, because you pointed it out, moron
Have a good day :D
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She's scared and with good reason considering what shes been led to believe
hows about trying to encoutrage this parent to relax and find out who her daughter really is rather than run her off the bioard into the arms of some ed con who'll be seeing $$ signs
Who said Edcons aren't on this board right now? :rofl:
BTW, check your spelling, and stop posting drunk. Go straddle someone's cock and sweat it all out of your system or something, sheesh.
BTW didnt you have it in with your sons over porn once? Why not go lend him a hand? 8-)
Get your facts right or STFU....I did tell the board about my sons having porn once, but if you go back and read the post I said I wasn't worried, I found it to be NORMAL growing up stuff
As for the rest of my post, I was trying to say what Hanzomon said, she just needs to relax and realise this is normal child/teen behaviour, they do this shit & come out the other side, usually cringing they've been so daft.
If you can't read what i post then I suggest you skip it, however, I believe you could read it, spelling mistakes included, because you pointed it out, moron
Have a good day :D
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Everyone who's ever been to college has a story about a repressed girl from a very religious family who went wild after she got out on her own.
Lighten up a llittle bit and maybe she won't become one of those girls after she moves out.
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maybe she won't become one of those girls after she moves out.
Or *happy sigh* maybe she will...
From what I've noticed, extended families are great for keeping this kind of batshit insanity to a minimum. When one family member goes power-mad, the others (grandparents, uncles) will quietly help the kid out. Anyone else seen this?
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maybe she won't become one of those girls after she moves out.
Or *happy sigh* maybe she will...
From what I've noticed, extended families are great for keeping this kind of batshit insanity to a minimum. When one family member goes power-mad, the others (grandparents, uncles) will quietly help the kid out. Anyone else seen this?
Not in my family. My family has one leader, she sets family policies and nobody dares to disobey her,not they would want to anyway, in my family, it is worse because there is more than one person creating havoc.
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You are the parent . You set the rules and they follow them. Be consistent with you what you say and do. If they don't follow the rules take everything away and have them earn it back
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Or you could go the other way and have them earn what you give them, that way they are in control of what they GAIN rather than what they LOSE, its better for them to see they are getting something out of being decent than losing everything to being naughty or disobedient
as for rules, weigh up what your kid is capable of taking on, the last thing you want is to set them up to fail, KISS and all will be well, you can move the goalposts slowly as progress is made and your child will start to feel good about themself
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Or you could go the other way and have them earn what you give them, that way they are in control of what they GAIN rather than what they LOSE, its better for them to see they are getting something out of being decent than losing everything to being naughty or disobedient
as for rules, weigh up what your kid is capable of taking on, the last thing you want is to set them up to fail, KISS and all will be well, you can move the goalposts slowly as progress is made and your child will start to feel good about themself