Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Ridge Creek School / Hidden Lake Academy => Topic started by: Anonymous on July 10, 2007, 07:53:48 AM
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No matter how hard parents of children who have been through HLA try to warn other families about their experiences there, and try to warn them not to spend all of their hard earned money, they seem to have to find out for themselves. I hate for people to have to find out the hard way about HLA to the tune of $6,000 a month. We wish you would listen and save yourselves lots of $$$ and heartache. We are not radical parents out here talking trash about HLA. We are parents that have been through the bad experience of HLA and would like to warn others before they go down that path.
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and the ones that ARE radical, and the ones very strongly opinionated about HLA, are not radicals becouse they are just angry at society and whatnot (the way most radicals are) but becouse they trusted someone and they got burned, and they feel a responsibility to inform other people in the same situation that they were in, that they also will get burned. some people like to communicate in a calm, respectful demeanor regardless of their emotions. HLA is very masterfull at this (particularly john mcmillon/function junction), which is why parents tend to listen to them more. but parents, please understand that when you hear some angry rhetoric, or some very emotional testimony, DONT DISMISS IT! just becouse someone is radical, or very emotional, even vulgar in the way they talk doesnt mean they are not telling the truth. in fact, usually it's the opositte. someone had to do something to them for them to get so angry!!!
And also remember that people posting on this site are not angry 14/15 year olds who are pissed of at their parents for sending them away. the majority of the "survivors" posting here are of college age or older, while many others are in fact parents and ex-employees.
now tell me, who would have more credibility, someone who's livelyhood depends on making parents think and believe good things about a program (i'm talking about HLA and their trolls [FJ/JR]) or someone who is not making any money whatsoever, yet is spending hours typing on a board on their own voulition, becouse either they have been victimized or becouse their concience wont let them sleep.
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Parent's please don't dismiss us simply because be are angry, spiteful, vindictive individuals seeking to destroy an entire industry while keeping our names and faces hidden from those around us. Wait! Doesn't this ring of radical terrorism? Why is Al-Qaeda attacking NATSAP? Does this mean the terrorists were right after all? My faith is shattered. blah, blah, blah.
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your desperate ploys to save yourself by labeling us as vindictive is ludicroius.
i parralel it to Iran's theory of Israels lack of a right to exist becouse israel is only there becouse its what they get for surviving the halocaust. so they go and try to disprove the halocaust. if it never happened, the jews dont truly have a right to a state. and J.R's desperate accusations of us being vindictive is about as airtight as Iran's case for the halocaust's non-existence. if you disprove and disseminate any idea that there might have been abuse or bad bussiness practice, declare the lawsuit as baseless, then it makes everyone here look like an immature brat looking for revenge becouse they cant kick a grudge.
unfourtunately, it isnt that way. If the lawsuit was baseless BM wouldnt be spending their valuable time and hard-earned dollars to get justice on behalf on the families...for free........
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Are you saying that you are Iran attacking an institution that shouldn't be in existence or that you are a survivor of a sort of holocaust and your nation is under attack by..... What the hell is this! Now you've got me doing it. It's good to know that fornits has mental giants like yourself to aid them with your well thought, extremely eloquent discussion. Keep up the good work, Gomer.
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People are not trying to destroy the industry that is honest and is truly out there to help kids. HLA is not about helping kids. It is about greed, lies, dishonest business practices and empty promises. HLA is taking $6000 a month and not delivering a quality education or anything else quality for that amount of money. People like Johnny Ringo talk about people not revealing their identity when posting. What about you Jerk! You hide behind the name Johnny Ringo. We know you are one of the pathetic staff at HLA. Why won't you reveal your identity?
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Johnny Ringo,
I wonder if you would be angry if HLA had taken over $100,000 of your money and done nothing that they promised to do for your child. You are so one sided and gullible. You work at HLA, but if you were in the position of being a parent of a child at HLA that paid out all that money for nothing, you would feel different. Don't worry, you will never make enough money at HLA to ever have to worry about being able to pay for something like HLA. Bucci is the one that is making all the money there. :roll:
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Let us try this again:
WHAT WERE YOU PROMISED THAT YOU DIDN'T RECEIVE?
Can you see that? Is it clear enough? Let's stick to topic shall we.
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JR,
You are a complete dumb ass! You should be ashamed that you are as clueless and brainwashable as you are.
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Let us try this again:
WHAT WERE YOU PROMISED THAT YOU DIDN'T RECEIVE?
Can you see that? Is it clear enough? Let's stick to topic shall we.
ummm, protection from abuse, for one....
and to get on topic, parents don't listen due to a factor called credibility, a kid vs a therapist, who will win. that coulped with the scare tactics "don't pull him/her, remember thier old behavior? do you want him to go back to old habits, you don't want that now do you?"
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Alright Funkychild (aka Matt). How were you abused at HLA? What incident of abuse did you witness at HLA?
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what the fuck do you need to know john? you don't matter your juristicion is only within the corrupt confines of hla, i've let the attourneys know . let's just keep to the subject matter. ps you've gotten even sloppier
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Every idiot supporting this site claims to be a victim but as of yet none have answered the simple question of:
What were you promised by HLA that you did not get?
Can someone please answer this question?
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That's a retarded question. Most of the posters on this site weren't promised anything except abuse. Their parents were promised loving, obedient, heavily-regressed kids, and didn't get them.
Does that answer your question?
(No wonder the parents are suing. :lol:)
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hey guest, you're totally right. hla's therapudic curriculum is like a cookie cutter, they will shape you to thier desire, by force or coerrsion (sp?). every kid is different, and this method simply does not work. it's a business more than anything and they do not give a fuck about anyone!!! this has been clearly shown by thier actions
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hey guest, you're totally right. hla's therapudic curriculum is like a cookie cutter, they will shape you to thier desire, by force or coerrsion (sp?). every kid is different, and this method simply does not work. it's a business more than anything and they do not give a fuck about anyone!!! this has been clearly shown by thier actions
Matt, you of all people should know better. Stop a minute and really think about your experiences at HLA. Think about how you acted toward people when you first got to HLA. Think about the people that encouraged your talent in playing the drums. Your ride was definitely a bumpy one at times, but I thought the folks at HLA always saw potential in you which is why they kept trying to help you. Of course HLA has things that need to change, but really think about what you are saying when you write that HLA "doesn't give a fuck about anyone". There were a lot of people that cared about you, including me.
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And the prison food was really good too, Matt, and some of the guards were less sadistic than others! Don't blame us all! (Please? We HLA anons need love..)
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Let us try this again:
WHAT WERE YOU PROMISED THAT YOU DIDN'T RECEIVE?
Can you see that? Is it clear enough? Let's stick to topic shall we.
Most of these are taken directly from HLA's web site:
- The teaching faculty at HLA hold a Bachelor to a Doctorate level degree in education.
- Full time nurse on staff.
- An estimated 15% of Hidden Lake Academy students have been diagnosed with a learning disorder and have an Individual Education Plan in place.
- An Individualized Therapeutic Plan, including clinical treatment goals, is maintained and revised by the clinical team throughout the enrollment of the student.
- All Counseling Staff are full-time and are clinically trained, holding a Master’s Degree or higher.
- Parents are informed of and involved in their child’s therapeutic work through the program via monthly written Counselor Reports, weekly update calls from the child’s Counselor
- Counselors receive weekly supervision by Doctoral and licensed Staff. In addition, biweekly therapeutic staffings are held to develop specific treatment goals and interventions for each student.
- A special skills program is available at HLA for students with special education needs. The academic history of these students, along with the results of the diagnostic reading and math test given upon entrance are thoroughly reviewed. Decisions are then made for placement into traditional classes, special skills classes, or a combination of the two. Teachers are provided information concerning the student's strengths and weaknesses. A certified special education teacher facilitates both classroom instruction and consultation. Students with special strengths are challenged through individualized activities. Gifted students are given opportunities such as literary debate meetings, mock legal trials, and many other challenges to stimulate their individual abilities.
- Hidden Lake Academy's Art and Theatre Programs are designed to be more than artistic enrichment.
- Can HLA provide a safe, healthy environment and teach my child self control? This same structure provides for the emotionally, psychologically, and socially safe environment where students may explore and learn to appropriately express feelings and work to heal past hurts. HLA is not a locked facility; however, physical safety is provided by round-the-clock staffing, dormitory security systems, and limited access to the campus.
- Our students are not court-ordered to HLA and do not include violent or severely disturbed children.
- HLA teachers hold a minimum Bachelor to Doctoral level degree, Counselors and the teaching staff work together to assure every child the optimal opportunity for academic success that will lead to positive, and successful future endeavors.
- Teachers' Minimum Qualifications:
Bachelor's or Master's Degree in related field with teaching
certificate.
- Counselor's Minimum Qualifications:
Master's Degree in related field. Commitment to 22-26
month contract or the duration of the assigned peer group
through to graduation.
- Assistant Counselors' Minimum Qualifications:
Bachelor's Degree or above in related field.
This is just a short list of what parents were/are told they will receive for their money.....
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Parents might be told that..... but telling them that and actually following through with that are 2 VERY different things. :evil:
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Being sold this beautiful tale of HLA is like being sold a beautiful Ferrari that is gorgeous on the outside and very expensive. It is like the salesman telling you how wonderful it is, and all looks great. THEN, you pay for it and drive away in in and discover that you have actually just paid a ton of money for a LEMON!!
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- The teaching faculty at HLA hold a Bachelor to a Doctorate level degree in education.
GAC requires teachers to have at least a Bachelor's level education. HLA teachers have at least a Bachelor's level education.
- Full time nurse on staff.
I am aware of very few instances where a full time nurse has not been on staff. These typically have been between one nurse leaving and another being hired. Be careful that you are not reading this as RN versus LPN, however.
- An estimated 15% of Hidden Lake Academy students have been diagnosed with a learning disorder and have an Individual Education Plan in place.
See no issues here, though I am unfamiliar with the statistics.
- An Individualized Therapeutic Plan, including clinical treatment goals, is maintained and revised by the clinical team throughout the enrollment of the student.
Students do not only have a therapeutic treatment plan based on the curriculum but also an individualized plan that is designed around the presenting problems.
- All Counseling Staff are full-time and are clinically trained, holding a Master’s Degree or higher.
All counselors work full-time, have completed some form of clinical training and hold a master's degree or higher.
- Parents are informed of and involved in their child’s therapeutic work through the program via monthly written Counselor Reports, weekly update calls from the child’s Counselor.
Monthly reports were replace by Element Reports to reduce redunancy. Weekly calls are made to parents until Wind Element when they become bi-weekly.
- Counselors receive weekly supervision by Doctoral and licensed Staff. In addition, biweekly therapeutic staffings are held to develop specific treatment goals and interventions for each student.
Counselor's do recieve supervision by licesed LPC and/or Doctoral staff. Be careful that you are not reading this as licensed LPC's and Licensed Ph.D/Psy.D's. All supervision is also overseen by Dr. Buccellato who possess a license. Treatment plans are updated during supervision and or at weekly counselor meetings and between elements.
- A special skills program is available at HLA for students with special education needs. The academic history of these students, along with the results of the diagnostic reading and math test given upon entrance are thoroughly reviewed. Decisions are then made for placement into traditional classes, special skills classes, or a combination of the two. Teachers are provided information concerning the student's strengths and weaknesses. A certified special education teacher facilitates both classroom instruction and consultation. Students with special strengths are challenged through individualized activities. Gifted students are given opportunities such as literary debate meetings, mock legal trials, and many other challenges to stimulate their individual abilities.
A special skills program is indeed available at HLA including a learning computer lab (or at least was before the fire). Harper was the certified special education teacher. There is currenlty a special education teacher on staff, however I am unaware of her certification. College level courses have been taught on campus. Students are given opportunities to participate in mock trials, debates, philosophy club, business club, chess club, National Honor Society, Student Council, etc.
- Hidden Lake Academy's Art and Theatre Programs are designed to be more than artistic enrichment.
HLA's Art program has included showing at local galleries which students can attend. Theatre presentations have been presented both on campus and off.
- Can HLA provide a safe, healthy environment and teach my child self control? This same structure provides for the emotionally, psychologically, and socially safe environment where students may explore and learn to appropriately express feelings and work to heal past hurts. HLA is not a locked facility; however, physical safety is provided by round-the-clock staffing, dormitory security systems, and limited access to the campus.
HLA is not a locked campus, it is staffed 24 hours, it does have dormitory security and access to campus is limited.
- Our students are not court-ordered to HLA and do not include violent or severely disturbed children.
This is correct, no student has been court-ordered to attend HLA. Don't confuse this with students who have been either court-ordered to attend a program or with whom an agreement has been reached to drop or lessen charges if a student attends a program. HLA does not knowingly admit violent or severely distrubed children, however, as discussed elsewhere , some parents are not forthcoming with information regarding the severity of their child's disorder and this is only realized after admission. These families are encouraged to seek alternative placement.
- HLA teachers hold a minimum Bachelor to Doctoral level degree, Counselors and the teaching staff work together to assure every child the optimal opportunity for academic success that will lead to positive, and successful future endeavors.
All HLA teachers hold a minimum of a Bachelor's degree. The counseling and education department work closely together to meet the students academic needs.
- Teachers' Minimum Qualifications:
Bachelor's or Master's Degree in related field with teaching
certificate.
All HLA teachers hold a minimum of a Bachelor's degree. Again, Be careful that you are reading is correctly it does not say:
Bachelor's Degree with teaching certificate or Master's Degree in related field with teaching certificate.
- Counselor's Minimum Qualifications:
Master's Degree in related field. Commitment to 22-26
month contract or the duration of the assigned peer group
through to graduation.
All counselors have a Master's Degree in a related field and all ethical counselors are commited to graduating the peer group with which they started.
- Assistant Counselors' Minimum Qualifications:
Bachelor's Degree or above in related field.
HLA does not currently utilize Assistant Counselors but do utilize some Bachelor's level staff who are seeking a Master's Degree to assist counselors with groups. I am unaware of the qualifications for the Recreational Counselors.
It appears that HLA provides all that you have listed. These services may not be what you expected or what you believe you read but they are all met. HLA provides parents an opportunity for a complete tour of the campus and all issues can be clarified at that point. So, looks like you got what was advertised and what you paid for.
I apologize for the length of this post, don't want to be confused with Robert B. and his inane ramblings.
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Being sold this beautiful tale of HLA is like being sold a beautiful Ferrari that is gorgeous on the outside and very expensive. It is like the salesman telling you how wonderful it is, and all looks great. THEN, you pay for it and drive away in in and discover that you have actually just paid a ton of money for a LEMON!!
According to Judge O'Kelley (Who hasn't classed a suit since 1974), that would be fine and dandy, "You got a car didn't ya?"
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.ph ... 043#247043 (http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=247043#247043)
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Johnny Ringo- You can spin the story of HLA however you see fit. That will never change the negative experience that lots of families had at HLA. We were sold a bunch of BS upon entering our child to HLA. We were told that our child who have to be involved in so many things there. We were told all about kids playing sports, getting to go to the stables and about all the off campus trips that all sounded so wondereful. We were told about how our child would get all of this academic help for his learning disability etc. One thing that HLA does is not be straight up with parents before the decision to enroll their children into their school.
Parents should be made aware prior to enrollment that if their children have learning differences and really struggle in school, and get on the academic incomplete list, they don't get to do a thing! For kids who have learning struggles and problems which make them very frustrated and angry, to further punish them and keep them on academic restrictions all the time so they are not allowed to do one thing but physial labor and pushups etc. is disgusting!
Makes LOTS of sense to take a child who has real learning struggles and then keep them in negativity and punishment the entire time they are at HLA. How in the world could that ever foster self esteem and compliant behavior in a child. That is a recipe for disaster! It is like kicking a child over and over when they are down and then expecting them to respect you and act nice and behave!
What kind of psychologist could possibly think that kind of constant negative reinforcement would work on kids struggling? Parents should be told all of these things before they sign that contract with HLA. I know if we were made aware of all that up front, there is no way we would have ever agreed to enrollment at there.
Parents need to know if their child has true academic problems, they could end up on academic restrictions and not get to go anywhere or do anything their entire incarceration at HLA. Parents deserve to know the the real "Harder Truth of HLA". It is not a pretty picture when you see the truth! AND parents should also know when they tell you how pulling your child out of HLA will cause the child to regress, that is a brainwashing tactic. Our child is thriving and doing great and is so happy to be out of that negative nightmare. Lots of other parents feel the same way and their kids are doing great outside of that place!
I know HLA loves when they have families in their peer group that are so gullible and brainwashable. I was shocked at how truly gullible some parents can be. Some parents will believe whatever they want to believe instead of believing their child and having to go to the trouble of finding a better avenue for their child. I would never take the easy road because my child will always come first. The negativity of HLA was not a good place for us. I just wish we had known the truth before enrollment.
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i second that. i have an acute learning disorder, particularly with math. they hired a philipino math teacher named Dominador, who although he was a virtual genius he had alot of trouble communicating that genius. he barely spoke english, and his lessons were essentially 45 miniute mumbles while he raced through all the problems on the board. the people who learned in that class had to teach themselves, the ones who couldnt were fucked. i spent a whole year on the incomplete list becouse i couldnt get a single passing grade.
they told me i couldnt graduate with an incomplete, so 2 months before grad dominador gave me a deal - if i can get a 70 or above on just 2 tests, any tests, which i can take when i'm ready, he'll give me a passing grade for the whole year. did he help me? no. i studied my fucking ass off for weeks. but i passed. did i learn any algebra 2 that year? absolutely not.
and i'm sure the rest of the kids on here back me up on this too.
and that big list of stuff HLA provides.....sure, it may sound great, but it's like doin a deal with the devil. you make a wish, but the devil somehow figures out a way to make your wish come true yet turn into your biggest nightmare. HLA may provide many of these things, but they do it so inconsistantly, poorly, and with such ethical corruption that as said before, it does more harm than good. they sacrifice many of the above listed things on a daily basis in order to keep things runnin and the money flowing.
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SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO TRUE!!
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Bachelor's level staff who are seeking a Master's Degree
:rofl:
Yeah, that'll stand up in court.
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A special skills program is indeed available at HLA including a learning computer lab (or at least was before the fire).
Isn't it so nice to be able to make claims like this when the evidence is ashes?
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"AND parents should also know when they tell you how pulling your child out of HLA will cause the child to regress, that is a brainwashing tactic. Our child is thriving and doing great and is so happy to be out of that negative nightmare. Lots of other parents feel the same way and their kids are doing great outside of that place!"
Esplain somethin' Lucy. If HLA is such a awful, disgusting, vile institution that does nothing but make promises to families to rob them of there money and provides absolutely no service what so ever........
How come you child has returned to you and is "thriving and doing great". If he/she was traumatized I would not expect "thriving and doing great". In addition, if you sent your child to HLA its a safe bet that he/she was not "thriving and doing great" in the many other programs you tried.
No need to thank HLA for another satsified customer whose child is "thriving and doing great" after HLA. Could HLA use that as a testimony?
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They did horrible at HLA and felt horrible about themselves in that negative environment. They are thriving because a place like HLA made them realize how great their families are versus living with a bunch of know it all smart ass staff members at HLA that know nothing but negativity. HLA cannot take credit for any thriving. They can just take credit for showing these kids what hell is like and they don't want that. You ought to change your ways to model some of the wilderness camps that are based in positive reinforcement. Oh yeah, I guess that is why Brad Carpenter, Kristen Bell, Josh Watson and Brian Church left HLA and Ridgecreek because they could see that negative reinforcement does not work with teens. Aspiro, SUWS and Second Nature are all about positive reinforcements and that is why they help kids. HLA does not help troubled teens at all.
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BTW ass wipe, our child did great at his wilderness camp before entering HLA. We just fell for the ED Con that we hired ED CONNING us to believe that out child needed more treatment at HLA. What our child needed was only true academic help for their learning disability which they did not get. We fell for the Ed Conning job and now we know it is exactly that Ed Conning. Do those Ed CONS get kickbacks for referrals? I believe they do. Our Ed Con ran for the hills when any questions were asked about the negative things going on at HLA.
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I think Johnny Ringo has had a lobotomy.
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This began as one of the most civilized discussions I have witnessed on this slanderous site. However, we continue to go back to baseless claims of broken promises, cruelty, abuse, neglect, and finally personal attacks.
I could play this same game. I could come on here everyday and say Guest you're and idiot. But I don't. What I do is take each fact you produce and argue it logically. This may in fact prove you to be an idiot but I don't have to slander, make personal attacks or offer baseless claims.
I do how ever apologize for using logic now that I understand that many of you have severe learning disabilities. I just can't resort to, "I know you are, but what are you?"
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- The teaching faculty at HLA hold a Bachelor to a Doctorate level degree in education.
GAC requires teachers to have at least a Bachelor's level education. HLA teachers have at least a Bachelor's level education.
- Full time nurse on staff.
I am aware of very few instances where a full time nurse has not been on staff. These typically have been between one nurse leaving and another being hired. Be careful that you are not reading this as RN versus LPN, however.
- An estimated 15% of Hidden Lake Academy students have been diagnosed with a learning disorder and have an Individual Education Plan in place.
See no issues here, though I am unfamiliar with the statistics.
- An Individualized Therapeutic Plan, including clinical treatment goals, is maintained and revised by the clinical team throughout the enrollment of the student.
Students do not only have a therapeutic treatment plan based on the curriculum but also an individualized plan that is designed around the presenting problems.
- All Counseling Staff are full-time and are clinically trained, holding a Master’s Degree or higher.
All counselors work full-time, have completed some form of clinical training and hold a master's degree or higher.
- Parents are informed of and involved in their child’s therapeutic work through the program via monthly written Counselor Reports, weekly update calls from the child’s Counselor.
Monthly reports were replace by Element Reports to reduce redunancy. Weekly calls are made to parents until Wind Element when they become bi-weekly.
- Counselors receive weekly supervision by Doctoral and licensed Staff. In addition, biweekly therapeutic staffings are held to develop specific treatment goals and interventions for each student.
Counselor's do recieve supervision by licesed LPC and/or Doctoral staff. Be careful that you are not reading this as licensed LPC's and Licensed Ph.D/Psy.D's. All supervision is also overseen by Dr. Buccellato who possess a license. Treatment plans are updated during supervision and or at weekly counselor meetings and between elements.
- A special skills program is available at HLA for students with special education needs. The academic history of these students, along with the results of the diagnostic reading and math test given upon entrance are thoroughly reviewed. Decisions are then made for placement into traditional classes, special skills classes, or a combination of the two. Teachers are provided information concerning the student's strengths and weaknesses. A certified special education teacher facilitates both classroom instruction and consultation. Students with special strengths are challenged through individualized activities. Gifted students are given opportunities such as literary debate meetings, mock legal trials, and many other challenges to stimulate their individual abilities.
A special skills program is indeed available at HLA including a learning computer lab (or at least was before the fire). Harper was the certified special education teacher. There is currenlty a special education teacher on staff, however I am unaware of her certification. College level courses have been taught on campus. Students are given opportunities to participate in mock trials, debates, philosophy club, business club, chess club, National Honor Society, Student Council, etc.
- Hidden Lake Academy's Art and Theatre Programs are designed to be more than artistic enrichment.
HLA's Art program has included showing at local galleries which students can attend. Theatre presentations have been presented both on campus and off.
- Can HLA provide a safe, healthy environment and teach my child self control? This same structure provides for the emotionally, psychologically, and socially safe environment where students may explore and learn to appropriately express feelings and work to heal past hurts. HLA is not a locked facility; however, physical safety is provided by round-the-clock staffing, dormitory security systems, and limited access to the campus.
HLA is not a locked campus, it is staffed 24 hours, it does have dormitory security and access to campus is limited.
- Our students are not court-ordered to HLA and do not include violent or severely disturbed children.
This is correct, no student has been court-ordered to attend HLA. Don't confuse this with students who have been either court-ordered to attend a program or with whom an agreement has been reached to drop or lessen charges if a student attends a program. HLA does not knowingly admit violent or severely distrubed children, however, as discussed elsewhere , some parents are not forthcoming with information regarding the severity of their child's disorder and this is only realized after admission. These families are encouraged to seek alternative placement.
- HLA teachers hold a minimum Bachelor to Doctoral level degree, Counselors and the teaching staff work together to assure every child the optimal opportunity for academic success that will lead to positive, and successful future endeavors.
All HLA teachers hold a minimum of a Bachelor's degree. The counseling and education department work closely together to meet the students academic needs.
- Teachers' Minimum Qualifications:
Bachelor's or Master's Degree in related field with teaching
certificate.
All HLA teachers hold a minimum of a Bachelor's degree. Again, Be careful that you are reading is correctly it does not say:
Bachelor's Degree with teaching certificate or Master's Degree in related field with teaching certificate.
- Counselor's Minimum Qualifications:
Master's Degree in related field. Commitment to 22-26
month contract or the duration of the assigned peer group
through to graduation.
All counselors have a Master's Degree in a related field and all ethical counselors are commited to graduating the peer group with which they started.
- Assistant Counselors' Minimum Qualifications:
Bachelor's Degree or above in related field.
HLA does not currently utilize Assistant Counselors but do utilize some Bachelor's level staff who are seeking a Master's Degree to assist counselors with groups. I am unaware of the qualifications for the Recreational Counselors.
It appears that HLA provides all that you have listed. These services may not be what you expected or what you believe you read but they are all met. HLA provides parents an opportunity for a complete tour of the campus and all issues can be clarified at that point. So, looks like you got what was advertised and what you paid for.
I apologize for the length of this post, don't want to be confused with Robert B. and his inane ramblings.
Johnny Ringo - You're trying to make gold out of a pile of shit. You'd make a good PR person with the way you "spin" the issues at hand. The interpretation of what was sold and what was received is based on the experience of the actual consumer. You aren't a consumer - you're the one trying to sell a sub-standard "product". These items are only what is listed in print - don't get us started on what we were promised during phone calls or face-to-face conversations.
But again, this is the typical HLA manipulation. Word things so they sound good, but write them in a manner that can be interpreted to HLA's advantage when it becomes necessary.
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I don't believe HLA is attempting to use these written promises as some form of legal contract. That would be you. If you are going to assume that what is stated on a web site is a legal written contract then HLA has the write to argue those statements in a legal manner. If you were told, promised, avowed, etc. any thing else you should have gotten it in in writing. That's good business.
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johhny, there ARE laws in this country against false advertising. unless you go to florida....there a little more relaxed there with scams and fraud...maybe you should move HLA to florida? that way you'll never have problems with lawsuits. untill a 17 year old black kid dies after being beaten to death. (yall know what i'm talking about....)
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Give me a break. Nothing in what was listed suggests false advertising. Why is it that none of the individuals on this site can take responsibility. You obviously could afford to send your child to a private therapeutic boarding school for $6000.00 per month. I can only assume that you managed to earn the level of income this would require by being financially sound and educated.
Many people here like to use the analogy of the automobile. Most of you would not spend the money on an automobile with out researching prices and deals, maybe checking consumer reports, talking to a dealer, test driving the car, comparing options. However, you want everyone to believe that you got completely taken by an organization that you entrusted your child to.
Now, either 1)HLA has some of the most expert, top-notch confidence people working for them that are capable of talking even the most financial sauve individuals out of enormous amounts of money (why these grifters are working for HLA and not independently we can discuss later) or 2) you made an impulse decision with what should be the most valueable thing in your life and regret it.
Those families who do an exhaustive search of programs and choose HLA are much more likely to have children who successfully graduate the program and are completely happy with the program and it's results.
It's time to take some responsiblity.
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Now, either 1)HLA has some of the most expert, top-notch confidence people working for them that are capable of talking even the most financial sauve individuals out of enormous amounts of money (why these grifters are working for HLA and not independently we can discuss later) or 2) you made an impulse decision with what should be the most valueable thing in your life and regret it.
both, fool. point #1 is accomplished right before the ed consultant and parent tours come through (dogwood etc.), by using the kids to really clean the living crap out of the campus, renting golf carts, putting problem makers on restrictions regardless of their guilt and isolating the restrictions across the lake or in the chalet. this gives everyone a very very good impression. also, the going-ons in HLA are kept under wraps. almost no one but the staff and students know what really goes on, and how the school works becouse it's such a "hidden" school. therefore the only thing about the school that any outside source can evaluate is the superficial, surface aspects of the school. and those parts ARE nice...that campus does kinda kick ass. not the buildings or the plumbing or the sewage tho. that place would be the ultimate pot farm...all those dorm rooms, what possibilities!
#1 is also accomplished by paying the travel expenses for family vacations and such for a select group of highly reputable consultants (leslie goldberg). giving them no choice but to refer kids.
#2, well, the entire industry is based on feeding of off parents weaknesses. when a kid is acting out, parents ALWAYS panic. how do you think a parent would feel if a kid just dropped the bomb, told his parents that, say, he's spent $20,000 on coke in the last few months? instantanious panic, sleepless nights, and constant worry "my kid can O.D any minuite". whats funny is that the admissions people play on that, (along with sites like strugglingteens). whatever the parents fear may be, they reinforce it. this is an average conversation between admissions and parents. my mom said hers went something like this
mom:"hey, i'm looking to placing my kid in a program like yours. he's been skipping school, smoking pot (even in the morning), stealing, sneaking out at night, and he just wont listen. whenever i try to talk to him he gets angry, and whenever i punish him he punishes me. would you recomend your program to my son?"
admissions:"at Hidden lake we provide support for troubled teens who struggle at school and in their family lives. your child sounds like he is really struggling. you should definitely seek placement for him, he is participating in some risky activities. if he keeps smoking and skipping school, he'll invariably end up dropping out of high school, and you wont ever have a decent relationship with him. you should most definitely also look into other programs, as every program is a little different. i can give you some names of educational consultants if you wish to talk to someone impartial who specializes in cases like yours.........."
most parents who send their kids to HLA make the decision over the course of maybe a week or two, if that. this is kinda obvious, considering untill recently kids would arive at a consistant rate thoughout the year, from 8-15 kids a month. kids would come in randomly. %90 of hla's bussiness comes from impulse decisions.
why the hell do you think the contract was what it was??? (till the judge said the contract itself broke the laww.....)
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Watching the employee and the parents fight is rather like watching Sunni and Shia terrorists kill each other. Whoever loses, we win (because HLA is financially hosed anyway, the lawsuit just determines how much loot Len gets away with, unless he's too stupid to take the money and run).
For the confused, I'll summarize his twofold argument.
1. Your kids are much more resistant/hateful/vicious than you ever dreamed, so of course it didn't work.
2. You were an underinformed moron for picking HLA, so blame yourselves for your dumb decision.
Which is what we've been saying on Fornits all along, really. I just never thought I'd see the day that a programmie would come along and start using hacked-up versions of them. I don't know whether this is desperation, back-asswards enlightenment, or both.
It's time to take some responsiblity.
The complete irony aside, YES! We are responsible for smashing the hell out of HLA. And we will continue to be responsible for smashing the hell out of similar hellholes. Even if we have to use eminently retarded parents to do it. :)
Beat as much retarded-parent ass as you can, Johnny- we're with you all the way.
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I don't believe HLA is attempting to use these written promises as some form of legal contract. That would be you. If you are going to assume that what is stated on a web site is a legal written contract then HLA has the write to argue those statements in a legal manner. If you were told, promised, avowed, etc. any thing else you should have gotten it in in writing. That's good business.
Johhny Ringo - You are woefully ignorant of consumer law and contractual law. It would behoove you to brush up on the knowledge of consumer's rights with regard to advertising and the "assumptions" that are derived from such advertising.
It's a good thing HLA has you on their side and you're willing to go down with the sinking ship.
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#1 is accomplished right before the ed consultant and parent tours come through (dogwood etc.), by using the kids to really clean the living crap out of the campus, renting golf carts, putting problem makers on restrictions regardless of their guilt and isolating the restrictions across the lake or in the chalet. this gives everyone a very very good impression. also, the going-ons in HLA are kept under wraps. almost no one but the staff and students know what really goes on, and how the school works becouse it's such a "hidden" school. therefore the only thing about the school that any outside source can evaluate is the superficial, surface aspects of the school. and those parts ARE nice...that campus does kinda kick ass. not the buildings or the plumbing or the sewage tho. that place would be the ultimate pot farm...all those dorm rooms, what possibilities!
So, let's abreviate, some parents are incredibly gulible and this would make them spiteful and vindictive and......
#2, well, the entire industry is based on feeding of off parents weaknesses. when a kid is acting out, parents ALWAYS panic. how do you think a parent would feel if a kid just dropped the bomb, told his parents that, say, he's spent $20,000 on coke in the last few months? instantanious panic, sleepless nights, and constant worry "my kid can O.D any minuite". whats funny is that the admissions people play on that, (along with sites like strugglingteens). whatever the parents fear may be, they reinforce it. this is an average conversation between admissions and parents. my mom said hers went something like this
...many of their children are so incredibly bad they need to be housed immediately.
How is this HLA's fault?
[/quote]
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because they are exploiting a weakness. those kids arnt so bad they need to be locked up. just becouse someone snorted tons of coke doesnt mean they need to be sent away for 2 years. A month in rehab, followed by a few weeks in the wilderness (not necessarily a wilderness program), will most definitely do the trick. a little follow-up therapy and regular urine testing might be a good idea, but not neccesary.
HLA exploits parents weaknesses the same way:
a bartender exploits an alchoholic
a crack dealer exploits a crackhead
the armed forces exploits the lower class
or dare i say.....the same way a SCAM ARTIST exploits the FOOLISH.
some things are legal. some arnt. just becouse something is legal doesnt mean it's not wrong, or that it wont be made illegal. and just because something is Illegal doesnt neccesarily mean it's wrong, or that it wont be made legal.
the point is regardless of the legality there is a instinctual sense that most people have that distinguishes right from wrong. you know very well that what you do is wrong, but you try to twist it to make it look right.
dozens of staff, hundreds of kids and scores of parents have a problem with what you did/are doing, which is why the staff leave, the kids rebel, and the parents full their kids and sue the school. untill you and the rest of your compatriots see what is fundamentally wrong with your outlook on life, your school and your industry will continue to spiral down out of control.
at a fundamental level, HLA is simply a private prison parents send bad kids to because they didnt break any laws to be eligible to be sent to a real prison. they make it seem like they "rehabilitate" and "educate" and make kids "grow emotionally". in reality 99% of kids leaving HLA start doin drugs again (tho usually not hard drugs), have the same level of education they had when they came (although not on paper). although kids DO grow somewhat emotionally, in my opinion its really caused more because of a quick, forced maturation as a result of living a difficult life for a while. though most kids leave with enough connections to get them "by" in the underworld for life.
personally, at leaving HLA i had 2 big pieces of paper jam-packed with contact info for dealers and other characters worth contacting from every state on the east coast, all over texas, NOLA (tho those not vaild no mo), cali, kentucky, michigan, and ohio. no matter where i go now, anywhere in this country i have someone to call for drugs.
now would you say HLA is a prison or a "theraputic boarding school"?
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personally, at leaving HLA i had 2 big pieces of paper jam-packed with contact info for dealers and other characters worth contacting from every state on the east coast, all over texas, NOLA (tho those not vaild no mo), cali, kentucky, michigan, and ohio. no matter where i go now, anywhere in this country i have someone to call for drugs.
:rofl: Such ownaj. Law of Unintended Consequences wins every time. :rofl:
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"A month in rehab, followed by a few weeks in the wilderness (not necessarily a wilderness program), will most definitely do the trick. a little follow-up therapy and regular urine testing might be a good idea, but not neccesary."
This is briliant. How can you say HLA did nothing for you? You seem to have found a simple solution to the entire drug problem of America; a little rehab, a little time in the woods, a little therapy and we're all good. Why didn't the rest of us think of this. Thanks Guest. You should have come forward so many billions of dollars and millions of lives sooner.
personally, at leaving HLA i had 2 big pieces of paper jam-packed with contact info for dealers and other characters worth contacting from every state on the east coast, all over texas, NOLA (tho those not vaild no mo), cali, kentucky, michigan, and ohio. no matter where i go now, anywhere in this country i have someone to call for drugs.
This is a good point. You may not have made your point that HLA is a bad school but you certainly show that your priorities are all screwed up as well as your values, associations and willingness to obey simple rules and laws. And with the "now, anywhere in this country i have someone to call for drugs." it seems that your priorities continue to be screwed up. Just go get you some rehab, some wilderness and some therapy; you'll be fine.
now would you say HLA is a prison or a "theraputic boarding school"?[/quote]
I would call HLA a therapeutic boarding school that stood in the way of you getting what you sorely needed; prison!
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This is briliant. How can you say HLA did nothing for you? You seem to have found a simple solution to the entire drug problem of America; a little rehab, a little time in the woods, a little therapy and we're all good. Why didn't the rest of us think of this. Thanks Guest. You should have come forward so many billions of dollars and millions of lives sooner.
This is a good point. You may not have made your point that HLA is a bad school but you certainly show that your priorities are all screwed up as well as your values, associations and willingness to obey simple rules and laws. And with the "now, anywhere in this country i have someone to call for drugs." it seems that your priorities continue to be screwed up. Just go get you some rehab, some wilderness and some therapy; you'll be fine.
now would you say HLA is a prison or a "theraputic boarding school"?
I would call HLA a therapeutic boarding school that stood in the way of you getting what you sorely needed; prison![/quote]
parents, this is what you will encounter if you send your kids to HLA. Bigoted, right-wing hillbillies with a saviour complex. this is a perfect example of the "HLA" attitude.
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"A month in rehab, followed by a few weeks in the wilderness (not necessarily a wilderness program), will most definitely do the trick. a little follow-up therapy and regular urine testing might be a good idea, but not neccesary."
This is briliant. How can you say HLA did nothing for you? You seem to have found a simple solution to the entire drug problem of America; a little rehab, a little time in the woods, a little therapy and we're all good. Why didn't the rest of us think of this. Thanks Guest. You should have come forward so many billions of dollars and millions of lives sooner.
personally, at leaving HLA i had 2 big pieces of paper jam-packed with contact info for dealers and other characters worth contacting from every state on the east coast, all over texas, NOLA (tho those not vaild no mo), cali, kentucky, michigan, and ohio. no matter where i go now, anywhere in this country i have someone to call for drugs.
This is a good point. You may not have made your point that HLA is a bad school but you certainly show that your priorities are all screwed up as well as your values, associations and willingness to obey simple rules and laws. And with the "now, anywhere in this country i have someone to call for drugs." it seems that your priorities continue to be screwed up. Just go get you some rehab, some wilderness and some therapy; you'll be fine.
now would you say HLA is a prison or a "theraputic boarding school"?
I would call HLA a therapeutic boarding school that stood in the way of you getting what you sorely needed; prison![/quote]
OH and i forgot to mention just becouse you are posting as a "guest" doenst mean we dont know who you are, johhnyR/jeffy hollowhead. there is something called an I.P address. that and the writing style and negative, self destructive attitude is still there.
i think jeffy needs a 7-day, dont you?! maybe we can get some fallout out of him.
one day when child prisons are illegal (which they WILL be fairly soon...them democrats have zero tolerace for institutional child abuse...neither does gulliani), i'm going to open up a prison to help those troubled ex-staff who really need some supervision and attention. then i'll see how they feel.
quit pushing your ultra-right wing reactionary politics on this forum Johhny/jeffy. Hitler lost, remember? and marijuana IS decriminalized....remember? and child abuse IS illegal...remember? and so is spousal abuse.....jeffy.......
even your wife HATES you. how do i know that? dont ask. i know. just go suck on a doggy dick. you suck at life.
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"AND parents should also know when they tell you how pulling your child out of HLA will cause the child to regress, that is a brainwashing tactic. Our child is thriving and doing great and is so happy to be out of that negative nightmare. Lots of other parents feel the same way and their kids are doing great outside of that place!"
Esplain somethin' Lucy. If HLA is such a awful, disgusting, vile institution that does nothing but make promises to families to rob them of there money and provides absolutely no service what so ever........
How come you child has returned to you and is "thriving and doing great". If he/she was traumatized I would not expect "thriving and doing great". In addition, if you sent your child to HLA its a safe bet that he/she was not "thriving and doing great" in the many other programs you tried.
No need to thank HLA for another satsified customer whose child is "thriving and doing great" after HLA. Could HLA use that as a testimony?
they're thriving and doing great because they've been released from a total hell. if you get out of the massive financial debt you've accumulated, you'll see what i mean. man, i feel awsome knowing i won't ever have to be strangled by a lampcord ever again, thank you hla for graduating me!
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one day when child prisons are illegal (which they WILL be fairly soon...them democrats have zero tolerace for institutional child abuse...neither does gulliani)
The Democrats have been around for about 100 years. When does all this begin?
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for those of you who seem to lack grey matter, i'm talking about the next generation of democrats taking office in '08, who will undoubtedly try to balance out and fix the mess that bush and his cronies left behind. as far as the troubled teen industry goes, 3 out of the 4 top democratic candidates have signs of targeting and reforming the whole drug war industry. The only reason places like HLA exist is becouse of Reagan and Straight's alliace. as the last remenants of this idiotic system are dissasembeled, so will the goverment's fondness for the privitization of the prison-industrial complex, which HLA is a part of. once reform is federally regulated, HLA along with the rest of the usa's current TBS/lockdowns will probobly go under.
The only thing left will the evil private cult christian reform schools.....becouse you cant really do anything about that constitutional clause that talkes about church and state. unfourtunately.
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for those of you who seem to lack grey matter, i'm talking about the next generation of democrats taking office in '08, who will undoubtedly try to balance out and fix the mess that bush and his cronies left behind. as far as the troubled teen industry goes, 3 out of the 4 top democratic candidates have signs of targeting and reforming the whole drug war industry. The only reason places like HLA exist is becouse of Reagan and Straight's alliace. as the last remenants of this idiotic system are dissasembeled, so will the goverment's fondness for the privitization of the prison-industrial complex, which HLA is a part of. once reform is federally regulated, HLA along with the rest of the usa's current TBS/lockdowns will probobly go under.
The only thing left will the evil private cult christian reform schools.....becouse you cant really do anything about that constitutional clause that talkes about church and state. unfourtunately.
You, my man, are dreaming. The success rate for most of these schools is thru the roof. Granted there are kids who do not benefit and others who get worse by them (That is what keeps fornits going). But the psychological industry (as a whole) and the professionals who represent them are the ones who will be reporting the findings and, to date, it has been extremely encouraging and in fact a few of the models are being used in the public sector in many parts of the country.
Sure there are the parents who never disciplined their kids and now they are out of control and are wondering if sending them to a program is a good idea or not and whether or not Sally will resent them because she is forced to make her own bed in the morning and attend class every day. But the democrats arent going to give a rats ass about these private institutions until they can straighten out the public school system first. The parents of the public school system are the ones who will be getting their vote.
The democrats are not going to do shit and we all know it. They we be focusing on an “Exit plan” from Iraq as a primary item so they can position themselves to get re-elected in 2012.
::hatter::
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through the roof success rates? define success - you couldnt have picked a more subjective term. in addition there is no oversight over the accuracy off the statistics released by the schools. once there is some oversight, it will be obvious that "success" is rare with the way things are functioning now.
That and with the recent uproar over the deaths of a few certain kids, particularly in florida, i doubt industry regulation is something the white house or congress will ignore.
and i dont know if you've been reading the news, but seemingly every other week in the past year the powers that be have taken steps to begin to end the war on drugs. among other things, universities and other private entities can host marijuana research programs, a number of states of taken steps to decriminalize it, colorado has practically legalized it. the dakotas have legalized hemp farming but the farmers are afraid to plant it becouse of the d.e.a, so there taking it to the top. along with that, there's the whole california situation which has been brewing for a while, and is about to explode. a major power struggle between state power and federal power is emerging - a conflct this country is not seen in a long time. the supreme court has made rulings which the states still refuse to follow. the house is begining to take a serious interest in finaly figuring out what the real fuss is about MJ and is not following blindly.
It's going to be very interesting to see how and into what all of this develops.....and the reprecussions on the TBS industry. you could say im just ranting about weed, but it's all very closely connected. check the history of the reagans.
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You, my man, are dreaming. The success rate for most of these schools is thru the roof. Granted there are kids who do not benefit and others who get worse by them (That is what keeps fornits going).
WHO are you?
What keeps Fornits "going" is reporting what goes on behind closed doors. What's being done to kids in the name of 'therapy'.
40% retention rate
150+ death
Untold (and unreported) number of injuries, preventable accidents, assaults, inappropriate sexual contacts, heinous abuses
Medical neglect
Food/ Contact with parents used as punishment
Fraudulent and deceptive advertising
Held incommunicado like prisoners of war
But the psychological industry (as a whole) and the professionals who represent them are the ones who will be reporting the findings
Indeed they will.
http://cafety.org/index.php?option=com_ ... &Itemid=35 (http://cafety.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=145&Itemid=35)
http://apinto.blog.usf.edu/category/spe ... -programs/ (http://apinto.blog.usf.edu/category/specialty-residential-schools-programs/)
http://cfs.fmhi.usf.edu/projects/AStart ... sbrief.pdf (http://cfs.fmhi.usf.edu/projects/AStartDocs/pressbrief.pdf)
http://www.nih.gov/news/pr/oct2004/od-15.htm (http://www.nih.gov/news/pr/oct2004/od-15.htm)
http://www.nimh.nih.gov/publicat/teens.cfm (http://www.nimh.nih.gov/publicat/teens.cfm)
http://www.nida.nih.gov/NIDA_notes/NNVo ... uping.html (http://www.nida.nih.gov/NIDA_notes/NNVol17N5/Grouping.html)
http://tinyurl.com/22xfcr (http://tinyurl.com/22xfcr)
http://www.teenliberty.org/ACAPN.htm (http://www.teenliberty.org/ACAPN.htm)
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p= ... ion#164570 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=164570&highlight=dishion#164570)
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=53849#53849 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=53849#53849)
If you're peddling Behren's 'study' of a handful of Aspen programs, compiling the results of a questionaire provided to select clients, that's not scientific or proof of efficacy. Why do they refuse to allow independent, third parties in to do authentic research and evaluation?
and, to date, it has been extremely encouraging and in fact a few of the models are being used in the public sector in many parts of the country.
Which models? Where are they being used?
http://www.wpic.pitt.edu/aacp/Vol-15-3/Youth.html (http://www.wpic.pitt.edu/aacp/Vol-15-3/Youth.html)
What have we learned from nearly twenty years of practicing values and principles articulated for the Children and Adolescent Service System Program (CASSP) and the System of Care (SOC) reform movement it spawned? The core values of the SOC reforms were the following: services should be 1) family centered, 2) child and adolescent focused 3) community based and well coordinated and 4) culturally competent. Sending youth across the country to a residential program, or limiting parental access to their children in a local program, is the antithesis of a family centered practice. Parents must be included in the assessment of each child, involved in regular contact with their child and central to planning the child’s reentry into their life outside the institution. Programs that offer rigid programming, or frankly misuse behavioral paradigms, are not providing individualized and tailored care as is becoming a standard "best practice" for ever more child care communities around the country.
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Len has always been deathly afraid of longitudinal studies of HLA graduates, and with good reason. Even in the good ole days, the completion rate was consistently below 50%. By this time last year, it had dropped into the 30% range, and now God only knows. Follow-up studies of HLA graduates were suggested and even urged on him by some of staff who had a modicum of ethics, but it always fell on deaf ears and now there are no staff with ethics remaining. The parent reference list was constantly being revised because their kids were constantly relapsing into the same behavior patterns, or worse. I am convinced that those kids who were pulled early-on did, on the whole, far, far better than those who actually graduated.
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I Love you deborah, you have a talent of understanding exactly what i'm trying to say and clarifying it so that all the square adults can understand.
i would like to mention:
what happened to all of those statistics HLA once had published on their website? i wish someone saved them so they could be introduced into the case as eveidence.
i also think it's funny how the whole website has been revamped since the lawsuit. That and although the many of the legal documents are available, parents cant get the parent's handbook untill they enroll their kids. i think thats interesting considering most school let you view the student and parent handbooks before you make your decisions, they expect you to base a large part of your decision on the handbooks; they provide an exellent window into how everything operates within a school.
i think it will be a good idea to construct a small database of documents by HLA on fornits. e.g any correspondence, handbooks, bills, etc. (of course with names blacked out).
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You, my man, are dreaming. The success rate for most of these schools is thru the roof.
Really? Well then, I'm sure you have the stats and long term, independent studies to back that up, right? (Not just your "survey" results, cherry-picking who participates)
Granted there are kids who do not benefit and others who get worse by them (That is what keeps fornits going).
Naw, exposing programs for the mindrape mills they are is what keeps Fornits going.
But the psychological industry (as a whole) and the professionals who represent them are the ones who will be reporting the findings and, to date, it has been extremely encouraging and in fact a few of the models are being used in the public sector in many parts of the country.
I've heard rumblings that Hyde was trying to insinuate themselves into the public school system. That is another thing that "keeps us going". Keeping this shit out of the public system. The Hyde grads and former parents are pissed and coming out, just like HLA people were pissed and filed a lawsuit.
Why would you ever farm out the responsibility of teaching moral values to your child? Schools are for educating our kids. Parents are who should be teaching morals.
Sure there are the parents who never disciplined their kids and now they are out of control and are wondering if sending them to a program is a good idea or not and whether or not Sally will resent them because she is forced to make her own bed in the morning and attend class every day.
Sally will resent them for the late night, forced confessions sessions. She'll resent them for having food withheld as punishment for some small infraction. She'll resent them for abandoning her to a bunch of unqualified strangers to live with for a good part of her all-too-short youth. She'll resent the labels and dxs slapped on her, or worse fall into and actually believe those things about herself.
But the democrats arent going to give a rats ass about these private institutions until they can straighten out the public school system first. The parents of the public school system are the ones who will be getting their vote.
The Dems have been lulled into believing that these "alternative" "schools" are safe and effective alternatives to JDC because they're too fucking lazy to really look into it.
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I can tell you something hilarious about HLA. That is that the HLA staffers titles and job responsibilities change all the time. For example Kees de Vente is listed as the spiritual coordinator and now is also the Assistant Director of Academics. Also, another funny is that Christy Jones used to be listed as a co-Director of Counseling, and now they have her listed as as Director of Admissions. The staff that are left there never know what job title they will have from week to week. I cannot imagine working at a place where I might have a different job title from week to week. :lol: :roll:
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Yeah, it's a transparent con if you know what to look for.
Ever see the movie "Casino"?
Sam Rothstien, the gangster running the Tangiers casino, applies for a license he knows he can't get, but avoids having to get it by changing his job title every so often ("entertainment director," "food and beverage manager") and reapplying so as to have another few months on a new conditional license.
Now that you know this is happening, be sure to report it to ORS. if the person is legally unqualified for whatever position they are in, BLOW THE WHISTLE. And keep doing it until HLA is fined out of business or their conditional license is revoked.
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Yeah, it's a transparent con if you know what to look for.
Ever see the movie "Casino"?
Sam Rothstien, the gangster running the Tangiers casino, applies for a license he knows he can't get, but avoids having to get it by changing his job title every so often ("entertainment director," "food and beverage manager") and reapplying so as to have another few months on a new conditional license.
Now that you know this is happening, be sure to report it to ORS. if the person is legally unqualified for whatever position they are in, BLOW THE WHISTLE. And keep doing it until HLA is fined out of business or their conditional license is revoked.
That's it!! Great analogy. And great movie.
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Johnny Ringo- All Counseling Staff are full-time and are clinically trained, holding a Master’s Degree or higher.
All counselors work full-time, have completed some form of clinical training and hold a master's degree or higher.
Really! Please do explain Danielle Howard (Amigone) then. She is employed as an addictions counselor. She has a bachelor's degree. She does not have a master's degree, nor is she a licensed Substance Abuse Professional.
Interesting...somehow, it doesn't jive with what you said! I'm sure the posters here are shocked...
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I can tell you something hilarious about HLA. That is that the HLA staffers titles and job responsibilities change all the time. For example Kees de Vente is listed as the spiritual coordinator and now is also the Assistant Director of Academics. Also, another funny is that Christy Jones used to be listed as a co-Director of Counseling, and now they have her listed as as Director of Admissions. The staff that are left there never know what job title they will have from week to week. I cannot imagine working at a place where I might have a different job title from week to week. :lol: :roll:
Here told, she has been moved over to RC, to be with Hollowhead.
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I can tell you something hilarious about HLA. That is that the HLA staffers titles and job responsibilities change all the time. For example Kees de Vente is listed as the spiritual coordinator and now is also the Assistant Director of Academics. Also, another funny is that Christy Jones used to be listed as a co-Director of Counseling, and now they have her listed as as Director of Admissions. The staff that are left there never know what job title they will have from week to week. I cannot imagine working at a place where I might have a different job title from week to week. :lol: :roll:
No kidding.
She was Assoc Dir of Counseling
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.ph ... 121#245121 (http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=245121#245121)
Unlicensed
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.ph ... 348#218348 (http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=218348#218348)
Perhaps this change was necessary to meet the requirements of ORS.
Who's supervising the interns?
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I can tell you something hilarious about HLA. That is that the HLA staffers titles and job responsibilities change all the time. For example Kees de Vente is listed as the spiritual coordinator and now is also the Assistant Director of Academics. Also, another funny is that Christy Jones used to be listed as a co-Director of Counseling, and now they have her listed as as Director of Admissions. The staff that are left there never know what job title they will have from week to week. I cannot imagine working at a place where I might have a different job title from week to week. :lol: :roll:
the staff wish it were as simple as having a new possition each week...the truth is they KEEP the one that they had and get the additional duties of the new position on top of that...and guess what...very often if not 100% of the time the pay doesn't change!
look at anna's title now...and i am sure that once christy and doug leave it will change yet again...along with who ever else gets passed those duties...
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BUT why in the world would these HLA staff members accept that BS? If the pay remains the same and you are having to do three different jobs, why the hell would you do it? It is A JOKE. Kees de Vente is listed on HLA's website as the Spiritual Coordinator and yet they have him trying to reconstruct these children's final transcripts that have left HLA. The transcripts are coming signed by Kees de Vente and under his name it says Assistant Director of Academics. How does being a minister give you the qualifications of being Assistant Director of Academics?
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I guess it is up to you whether you will accept that kind of treatment or not. Guess it depends on how badly you need a job! For me, I am worth more than that.
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To do lots more work for no more money, and no chance of advancement in a place like HLA is stupid! The only person bringing in the big bucks is the hidden leader of HLA Len B. If you want to do that for a company that will reward you or advance you for doing so, OK. We are talking HLA here! HLA has one leader or "Puppeteer". The rest of the HLA staff members are his puppets.
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To do lots more work for no more money, and no chance of advancement in a place like HLA is stupid! The only person bringing in the big bucks is the hidden leader of HLA Len B. If you want to do that for a company that will reward you or advance you for doing so, OK. We are talking HLA here! HLA has one leader or "Puppeteer". The rest of the HLA staff members are his puppets.
If the employees feel that they will not grow or have learned all they can they will move on. That is what people do, no one needs to stay in a job they dont like. Every small business struggles with training and turn over issues.
::hatter::
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unlicensed, uneducated staff with no job skills CAN'T move on - HLA hires the people that nobody else will and puts them in jobs where they're required to break the law just by doing the job they were assigned, like the "drug counselor" who has no license to perform the job. if she sees a single kid under that job description and function, she will have committed a CRIME and HLA will have violated Georgia law.
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The great majority of those who are still at Hidden Lake after X number of years are there for one reason: They simply aren't qualified to work anywhere else. Kees, I believe, will starve when HLA finally folds. Ditto for some of the other Len devotees like Riefenburger, Clay Erickson, and the hapless Lee Param.
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I would not hose down most of the remaining staff at HLA if they were on fire! They are deceptive liars in my opinion. They sure sold lots of us families a bunch of lies. Even former staff are saying that they left because they were tired of lying for HLA. They can prey on the weak minded brainwashable desperate parents out there.
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unlicensed, uneducated staff with no job skills CAN'T move on -
of course, that goes for any business or person. HLA has many employees with degrees and that are educated in the college level and many that are not.
It would be wasteful to hire all college level people if the jobs dont call for it, companies need to maintain a healthy balance of both.
::hatter::
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unlicensed, uneducated staff with no job skills CAN'T move on -
of course, that goes for any business or person. HLA has many employees with degrees and that are educated in the college level and many that are not.
It would be wasteful to hire all college level people if the jobs dont call for it, companies need to maintain a healthy balance of both.
But they advertise that their counseling staff all have Master's or higher. They don't. They lie. They twist. They manipulate.
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But they advertise that their counseling staff all have Master's or higher. They don't. They lie. They twist. They manipulate.
Druggies lie and manipulate all the time, so why shouldn't we?
Gotta get the little fuckers in here somehow..
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unlicensed, uneducated staff with no job skills CAN'T move on -
of course, that goes for any business or person. HLA has many employees with degrees and that are educated in the college level and many that are not.
It would be wasteful to hire all college level people if the jobs dont call for it, companies need to maintain a healthy balance of both.
But they advertise that their counseling staff all have Master's or higher. They don't. They lie. They twist. They manipulate.
I looked on the site and could not find where it said that, could you cut and paste or let me know what page it was on?
::hatter::
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unlicensed, uneducated staff with no job skills CAN'T move on -
of course, that goes for any business or person. HLA has many employees with degrees and that are educated in the college level and many that are not.
It would be wasteful to hire all college level people if the jobs dont call for it, companies need to maintain a healthy balance of both.
But they advertise that their counseling staff all have Master's or higher. They don't. They lie. They twist. They manipulate.
I looked on the site and could not find where it said that, could you cut and paste or let me know what page it was on?
Not only do the staff at SIBS have their Master's in drug counseling, they're also equipped with the gift of awareness™ from having been through the program themselves! No one is better qualified to treat your kid!
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Everyone of the staff also has a P.H.d. in drugonomics also.
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But they advertise that their counseling staff all have Master's or higher.
It appears you mixed that up with their employment page. HLA is looking for a counselor with a masters degree in a related field
They are also looking for assistant counselors with a bachelors degree. So not all counselors are required to have advanced degrees but they are all educated in the field. Do they advertise elsewhere that all their counselors hold advanced degrees? I did not see that.
::hatter::
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But they advertise that their counseling staff all have Master's or higher.
It appears you mixed that up with their employment page. HLA is looking for a counselor with a masters degree in a related field
They are also looking for assistant counselors with a bachelors degree. So not all counselors are required to have advanced degrees but they are all educated in the field. Do they advertise elsewhere that all their counselors hold advanced degrees? I did not see that.
yes, they do advertise this elsewhere. i researched this for the lawsuit and i found no less than 30 sites on which HLA advertises itself as having "42 Masters Level Counselors" and that all peer group counselors hold a "Masters degree or higher." of course, these are all lies, but hey, they're just tryin' to make a buck!
this has been well documented on Fornits. you can search the threads for it.
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But there doesnt appear to anything current. There web site information seems to be in line with what they are presently doing.
::hatter::
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Because we exposed them. Just like Izzy's site. Say it here, it changes there.
and they say we have no influence.
:rofl:
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But there doesnt appear to anything current. There web site information seems to be in line with what they are presently doing.
::hatter::
Why are you back here?
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But they advertise that their counseling staff all have Master's or higher.
It appears you mixed that up with their employment page. HLA is looking for a counselor with a masters degree in a related field
They are also looking for assistant counselors with a bachelors degree. So not all counselors are required to have advanced degrees but they are all educated in the field. Do they advertise elsewhere that all their counselors hold advanced degrees? I did not see that.
yes, they do advertise this elsewhere. i researched this for the lawsuit and i found no less than 30 sites on which HLA advertises itself as having "42 Masters Level Counselors" and that all peer group counselors hold a "Masters degree or higher." of course, these are all lies, but hey, they're just tryin' to make a buck!
this has been well documented on Fornits. you can search the threads for it.
No, the lies continue:
http://tinyurl.com/2nsm7k (http://tinyurl.com/2nsm7k)
Hidden Lake Academy
(Therapeutic Boarding School)
Gender: Coeducational Phone: (800) 394-0640
Ages: 13 to 18
Grades: 7 to 12 Fax: (706) 864-9109
Enrollment: 175 Email: www.hiddenlakeacademy.com (http://www.hiddenlakeacademy.com)
Founded: 1994
Admission Contact: Billy Pichon
Address: 830 Hidden Lake Rd.
Dahlonega, GA 30533 Executive Contact: Leonard Buccellato, Ph.D.
Hidden Lake Academy (HLA), located on a 215-acre campus one hour north of Atlanta, helps young people make significant gains in emotional maturity and academic achievement. Integral to the HLA program is an equal emphasis on the college-preparatory academic curriculum and sudent's therapeutic work. The Hidden Lake Academy staff cooperate to help students develop all aspects of their lives: physical, mental, emotional, social, and spiritual. The 10:1 student to teacher ratio ensures individual attention and a return to academic success.
Typical students exhibit oppositional-defiant behavior, low self-esteem, depression, ADHD, deteriorating family relationships, and are making poor choices. Students typically graduate Hidden Lake Academy's therapeutic program with a greatly increased ability and motivation to make decisions that will positively impact their lives.
Hidden Lake Academy utilizes a detailed, sequential therapeutic program which allows for a high degree of program accountability. Each group consists of 14 students and is led by 2 Master's-level counselors. Students participate in three group counseling sessions per week (7 hours). In addition to group therapy, an addictions education course, planned and staffed by specialists in this field, is included in each student's experience. A wilderness component-consisting of a series of exciting and challenging experiences including day hikes, adventure trips, rock climbing and rappelling days, a ropes course, and canoeing is carefully integrated into a program. A staff chaplain provides ample opportunities for spiritual development for students of all faiths and coordinates extensive community services projects and numerous off-campus trips. HLA competes in the Atlanta Athletic Conference. Studens participate in basketball, volleyball, baseball, soccer, wrestling, tennis, softball, golf and track. Sports are balanced by strong Drama and Fine Arts Departments.
Individual Psychotherapy Available: Yes
Accreditation, Licensure, Approval: The Georgia Accrediting Commission; Southern Association of Colleges and Schools
Professional Affiliations: NATSAP-Full Member; GAIS; GAPSEC;GISA; NAIS; SSATB,
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Because we exposed them. Just like Izzy's site. Say it here, it changes there.
and they say we have no influence.
:rofl:
This site has enormous influence. Bucchi reads it obsessively as he folds and unfolds a piece of paper, nursing his OCD along with his other disorders. His entire mood can change in an instant depending on what he reads on fornits. Everyone who works in the administrative office knows this. Right, Bucchi?
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A quick scan of their employees from the HLA site shows at least 3 or 4 counselors with advanced degrees. Where does this go against what they say?
I am not trying to defend them on this but just trying to understand how you see this as not meeting standards
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please read the threads. they are now under the purview of ORS and are required BY LAW to use staff with the appropriate credentials. they DO NOT.
they state that all counselors are masters level - this is a lie. they say that there are two masters level counselors per peer group - this is a lie. they say they employ 42 masters level counselors - this is a lie. they also continue to have uneducated, unlicensed personnel perform therapy without the supervision of a licensed counselor and without the requisite degrees. not to mention the academic department which fails miserably to meet state standards...
HLA is a sham and a scam.
be sure to continue to report the false advertising and unqualified personnel to ORS for investigation.
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please read the threads. they are now under the purview of ORS and are required BY LAW to use staff with the appropriate credentials. they DO NOT.
What appropriate credentials does ORS require you waste of human space? You people are so wrapped up in licenses and certifications. These are simply not required, idiots. Most states recognize qualified professionals. This is the case in Georgia. You do not have to be a certified teacher to teach under SACS or GAC. This is what HLA falls under not the State Department of Education. If you want your child to attend a public school with public school oversite HLA is not for you. As a private school it is only required to have qualified teachers.
Now, to this other piece of drivel. All peer group counselor, I repeat peer group counselors have a masters degree. When the school had 160 students they employed 42 master level counselors. They do not have that number of students and don't require that number of staff. Basic math but I'm aware of the many learning disabilities here on fornits. All of the peer group counselors, I repeat peer group counselors are educated but are not required to be licensed. Amigone is not a peer group counselor, she is a substance abuse counselor. As some of you recovery addicts...., wait no one on fornits is in recovery, they are trying to legalize it....anyway, substance abuse counselors are not required to be licensed. In fact many have earned their degrees in addiction recovery by being addicts in recovery. They have had no formal training at all...License that!
State Standards....what state standards are required of a private therapeutic boarding school that HLA doesn't meet. Be careful you are not referring to standards that public or state funded programs must meet.
they state that all counselors are masters level - this is a lie. they say that there are two masters level counselors per peer group - this is a lie. they say they employ 42 masters level counselors - this is a lie. they also continue to have uneducated, unlicensed personnel perform therapy without the supervision of a licensed counselor and without the requisite degrees. not to mention the academic department which fails miserably to meet state standards...
Fornit is a sham and a scam.
be sure to continue to report the false advertising and unqualified personnel to ORS for investigation.
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oh, johnny ringo, how you dissemble...
what you wrote is a pack of lies, ringo. never in its existence did HLA EVER have 42 masters level counselors, EVER. and they DO need to be licensed or directly supervised by one who is, and the licensed one can only oversee a maximum of THREE unlicensed ones. of course, even the unlicensed ones need to have a masters degree in a mental health or social work field.
substance abuse counselors are not required to be licensed
this is also a blatant lie. all substance abuse counselors must hold the appropriate certification and the FACILITY has to be a LICENSED drug treatment cernter.
johnny, johnny, johnny...come to grips with reality. polish up your resume (instead of your boss' knob) and start looking for gainful employment. HLA is finished, only you don't realize it yet - you're a little slow on the uptake...
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Now, to this other piece of drivel. All peer group counselor, I repeat peer group counselors have a masters degree. When the school had 160 students they employed 42 master level counselors. They do not have that number of students and don't require that number of staff. Basic math but I'm aware of the many learning disabilities here on fornits. All of the peer group counselors, I repeat peer group counselors are educated but are not required to be licensed. Amigone is not a peer group counselor, she is a substance abuse counselor. As some of you recovery addicts...., wait no one on fornits is in recovery, they are trying to legalize it....anyway, substance abuse counselors are not required to be licensed. In fact many have earned their degrees in addiction recovery by being addicts in recovery. They have had no formal training at all...License that!
Wow, I never thought an HLA employee would be dumb enough to actually admit that they hire unlicensed substance abuse counselors.
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Now I truly understand the old saying about a little bit of knowledge being dangerous. You people know just enough to raise you above sludge.
HLA is not, has not been, will not be a drug treatment facility. Running and AA meeting and teaching the dangers of drugs does not constitute a drug treatment facility or certifcation as a substance abuse counselor. Next, post the state requirement that indicates all substance abuse counselors must be certified. All not just State employed.
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Now, to this other piece of drivel. All peer group counselor, I repeat peer group counselors have a masters degree. When the school had 160 students they employed 42 master level counselors. They do not have that number of students and don't require that number of staff. Basic math but I'm aware of the many learning disabilities here on fornits. All of the peer group counselors, I repeat peer group counselors are educated but are not required to be licensed. Amigone is not a peer group counselor, she is a substance abuse counselor. As some of you recovery addicts...., wait no one on fornits is in recovery, they are trying to legalize it....anyway, substance abuse counselors are not required to be licensed. In fact many have earned their degrees in addiction recovery by being addicts in recovery. They have had no formal training at all...License that!
Wow, I never thought an HLA employee would be dumb enough to actually admit that they hire unlicensed substance abuse counselors.
yeah, but you didn't factor in exactly HOW DUMB johnny ringo actually is. he's about as bright as a ten watt bulb.
not only that, he's a high and mighty holy-roller rapture righty, but is a complete and utter blasphemer. go figure.
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Now I truly understand the old saying about a little bit of knowledge being dangerous. You people know just enough to raise you above sludge.
HLA is not, has not been, will not be a drug treatment facility. Running and AA meeting and teaching the dangers of drugs does not constitute a drug treatment facility or certifcation as a substance abuse counselor. Next, post the state requirement that indicates all substance abuse counselors must be certified. All not just State employed.
Bullshit. I was in their addictions program for 2 years! After a wonderful one size fits all WRITTEN TEST they administer to determine if someone is an addict. Never talking to the kids until AFTER they are in the program about their history with drugs/alcohol. They seem to feel that a multiple choice examination is just well and good to determine a treatment program for someone.
Yes, we went to off campus AA meetings, and the people who scored a sub-addict score on the test were required to still take once a week classes on the dangers of drugs, but the "addicts" were in a program there, lead by Jen Rager and Clay Erickson.
This is that stupid spin you try and do on the school to make it something different than what it is. A SCAM.
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Well, I still cant see where HLA is not living up to the requirements or not doing what they advertise they do.
I have checked their web site and googled for their ads and they seem to be telling the truth about what they say they do and the counselors they hire.
Does anyone have a link or any proof at all?
::hatter::
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Next, post the state requirement that indicates all substance abuse counselors must be certified. All not just State employed.
I hear crickets.... this is what I thought. As far as my research has told me (only one days worth, mind you) HLA is living up to the requirement: "Say what you do and Do what you say", in the counselor department, anyway.
I am not for or against HLA nor affiliated with them. I am just trying to get an idea of how they stand against requirements. Are there state requirements we should be looking at?
::hatter::
...
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Deborah, I forgot to put the little "Cat-in-the-hat" symbol at the bottom of the post on the previous page. If you could add it that would be nice. It use to be my daughters favorite story at night along with "Green eggs and Ham". Its a good reminder of why we are all here, "The kids". I just have to come up with a new log-in name and then have the little guy appear automatically.
Thanks
here is a link:
http://http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=273878#273878
::hatter::
...
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But they advertise that their counseling staff all have Master's or higher.
It appears you mixed that up with their employment page. HLA is looking for a counselor with a masters degree in a related field
They are also looking for assistant counselors with a bachelors degree. So not all counselors are required to have advanced degrees but they are all educated in the field. Do they advertise elsewhere that all their counselors hold advanced degrees? I did not see that.
yes, they do advertise this elsewhere. i researched this for the lawsuit and i found no less than 30 sites on which HLA advertises itself as having "42 Masters Level Counselors" and that all peer group counselors hold a "Masters degree or higher." of course, these are all lies, but hey, they're just tryin' to make a buck!
this has been well documented on Fornits. you can search the threads for it.
No, the lies continue:
http://tinyurl.com/2nsm7k (http://tinyurl.com/2nsm7k)
Hidden Lake Academy
(Therapeutic Boarding School)
Gender: Coeducational Phone: (800) 394-0640
Ages: 13 to 18
Grades: 7 to 12 Fax: (706) 864-9109
Enrollment: 175 Email: www.hiddenlakeacademy.com (http://www.hiddenlakeacademy.com)
Founded: 1994
Admission Contact: Billy Pichon
Address: 830 Hidden Lake Rd.
Dahlonega, GA 30533 Executive Contact: Leonard Buccellato, Ph.D.
Hidden Lake Academy (HLA), located on a 215-acre campus one hour north of Atlanta, helps young people make significant gains in emotional maturity and academic achievement. Integral to the HLA program is an equal emphasis on the college-preparatory academic curriculum and sudent's therapeutic work. The Hidden Lake Academy staff cooperate to help students develop all aspects of their lives: physical, mental, emotional, social, and spiritual. The 10:1 student to teacher ratio ensures individual attention and a return to academic success.
Typical students exhibit oppositional-defiant behavior, low self-esteem, depression, ADHD, deteriorating family relationships, and are making poor choices. Students typically graduate Hidden Lake Academy's therapeutic program with a greatly increased ability and motivation to make decisions that will positively impact their lives.
Hidden Lake Academy utilizes a detailed, sequential therapeutic program which allows for a high degree of program accountability. Each group consists of 14 students and is led by 2 Master's-level counselors. Students participate in three group counseling sessions per week (7 hours). In addition to group therapy, an addictions education course, planned and staffed by specialists in this field, is included in each student's experience. A wilderness component-consisting of a series of exciting and challenging experiences including day hikes, adventure trips, rock climbing and rappelling days, a ropes course, and canoeing is carefully integrated into a program. A staff chaplain provides ample opportunities for spiritual development for students of all faiths and coordinates extensive community services projects and numerous off-campus trips. HLA competes in the Atlanta Athletic Conference. Studens participate in basketball, volleyball, baseball, soccer, wrestling, tennis, softball, golf and track. Sports are balanced by strong Drama and Fine Arts Departments.
Individual Psychotherapy Available: Yes
Accreditation, Licensure, Approval: The Georgia Accrediting Commission; Southern Association of Colleges and Schools
Professional Affiliations: NATSAP-Full Member; GAIS; GAPSEC;GISA; NAIS; SSATB,
This is for the dumbass we know as "Who".....
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Next, post the state requirement that indicates all substance abuse counselors must be certified. All not just State employed.
I hear crickets.... this is what I thought. As far as my research has told me (only one days worth, mind you) HLA is living up to the requirement: "Say what you do and Do what you say", in the counselor department, anyway.
I am not for or against HLA nor affiliated with them. I am just trying to get an idea of how they stand against requirements. Are there state requirements we should be looking at?
::hatter::
...
You heard crickets because, unlike you, most people have a life outside of Fornits and are not going to sit around on a Friday night posting on this site. Loser.
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Deborah, I forgot to put the little "Cat-in-the-hat" symbol at the bottom of the post on the previous page. If you could add it that would be nice. It use to be my daughters favorite story at night along with "Green eggs and Ham". Its a good reminder of why we are all here, "The kids". I just have to come up with a new log-in name and then have the little guy appear automatically.
Thanks
here is a link:
http://http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=273878#273878
::hatter::
...
Don't include yourself in this "we" you speak of. You have nothing to do with helping kids and you most assuredly have nothing to do with Fornits and why it's here. Why are you here?
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i noticed on an above post stating "college prep.", they had this statistic everyone in academics prided themselves upon; "100% of our students apply and are accepted to UNIVERSITIES" i applied to a specialty college (berklee college of music) and since that didn't correspond to the statistic, academics flipped out, and told me to apply to a university. tulane was trashed, miami was too fucking expensive, and i don't have enough balls to go to new york (waaaaaay too compeditive there, the jazz scene is dying). and when a private music tutor was hired for me, staff did nothing but treat him like an intruder. thanks for the support, you cocks.
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agreed. it happened to me to, but with naropa univeristy. and i also tried to get back into my old high school for the remainder of my senior year, and they sabotaged that. called my old school telling them i'm a bad kid and very high risk and such. they sabotaged my application to every school i applied to unless it was a step-down program, followed by a small, strict college. luckily my mom gave them the finger and hired a few people to do some counter-sabotage.
and the new york scene really really really does suck big fat balls. it's all bullemic spoil-tarted julliard freaks, and "try too hard" hipsters. you did yourself a favor by not coming here. you'll have better luck in boston or L.A. thought about nashville all?
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Don't include yourself in this "we" you speak of. You have nothing to do with helping kids and you most assuredly have nothing to do with Fornits and why it's here. Why are you here?
“We” includes myself, but it may or may not include you. It doesn’t appear you are a very good advocate for fornits yourself, based on your posts. It is important, in my opinion, to have both sides of a discussion represented so that the reader can get a balanced argument and free flowing information. I don’t think you would be interested in or find an “All pro-HLA” forum informative and neither would I. This wouldn’t do the parents or the kids any good just like a forum which posted just a negative view of HLA.
So I think we can all agree that including and inviting people from all points of view into the discussion will strengthen the parents’ ability to make the right decision for their child. This in turn will make fornits a more reliable resource for families seeking guidance. (It has been obvious, especially on the LA thread, that people would like to keep the discussion one-sided as to mis lead the parents)
I am neutral in my position of HLA and feel I can add balance to the conversation by asking (and discovering )new questions and adding a fresh point of view which may cause all of us to see each topic in a different light, bring new information to the table etc..
::hatter:: ::hatter::
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Deb, please, get rid of this guy already. It's TheWho, he admits it, he's banned...What's the holdup?
I'm so sick and tired of his (in his mind only) "adding value" and "balancing the discussion". If he actually added value or balance, I'd say "keep him," but since he doesn't, just enforce the ban.
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I can't ban. Speak to an Admin. I made the request last week. Perhaps they think Who "adds value".
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I know you can't ban. That's not a problem. He is ALREADY banned. Just erase his posts.
Some believe the quickest way to get rid of him is to ignore him. I believe it is to erase his posts thereby making any effort he makes here null, void and a complete waste of time. Let him take up five hours a day posting and you spend five minutes invalidating the effort. Very simple way to deal with it.
Just shitcan all his posts and he'll stop posting. No need to read for content or anything else. He violated the TOS, was banned for it and is now violating the ban. Use the "delete" key on this dumbass.
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I know you can't ban. That's not a problem. He is ALREADY banned. Just erase his posts.
Some believe the quickest way to get rid of him is to ignore him. I believe it is to erase his posts thereby making any effort he makes here null, void and a complete waste of time. Let him take up five hours a day posting and you spend five minutes invalidating the effort. Very simple way to deal with it.
Just shitcan all his posts and he'll stop posting. No need to read for content or anything else. He violated the TOS, was banned for it and is now violating the ban. Use the "delete" key on this dumbass.
I disagree. He makes himself look like an ass anyway and if we start erasing things it will only give him room to say we've changed the thread, altered his posts or otherwise tried to control the conversation to our point of view. That's what THEY do, not us.
As has been said before, it's an EXTREMELY rare situation that anyone gets banned and the only other time I've known about it here, Ginger let the ban up after a couple weeks.
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I have a different opinion. If ANYHTING he says here is used by a parent to place their child in an abusive program, like HLA or ASR, for example, then it will cause damage to an innocent child for no reason other than we did nothing to stop it.
Let's face facts: He's here solely for the purpose of promoting programs and he posts falsehoods that support his mission.
Why should I allow myself to be his vehicle for the abuse of children?
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I banned "The Who" off my facilities forum. If the anon is "The Who" then it wouldn't be a stretch to just delete all of his posts, I've did it and the only one who complained about it was him.
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I have a different opinion. If ANYHTING he says here is used by a parent to place their child in an abusive program, like HLA or ASR, for example, then it will cause damage to an innocent child for no reason other than we did nothing to stop it.
Let's face facts: He's here solely for the purpose of promoting programs and he posts falsehoods that support his mission.
Why should I allow myself to be his vehicle for the abuse of children?
Yourself? Is this Ginger?
Yes, I understood your opinion when you wrote it the first time. That's why I began my response with "I disagree". I still hold the opinion that if we start deleting things we don't like, we're no different than Lon Woodbury trying to control his forum. We all see how well that worked out.
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I have a different opinion. If ANYHTING he says here is used by a parent to place their child in an abusive program, like HLA or ASR, for example, then it will cause damage to an innocent child for no reason other than we did nothing to stop it.
Let's face facts: He's here solely for the purpose of promoting programs and he posts falsehoods that support his mission.
Why should I allow myself to be his vehicle for the abuse of children?
Yourself? Is this Ginger?
Yes, I understood your opinion when you wrote it the first time. That's why I began my response with "I disagree". I still hold the opinion that if we start deleting things we don't like, we're no different than Lon Woodbury trying to control his forum. We all see how well that worked out.
hmmmm... this person does make a really good point.
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I think it depends on circumstances. In a fair, level, grounded debate this guy is meat.
HOWEVER, since he doesn't rely on facts or debate thereof, it's only propaganda left behind. Due to the fact that he is already banned and never asked to be reinstated, he should be summarily booted and his drivel removed.
It's not censorship, it's enforcement of TOS rules that we all have to live by except TheWho. He's the one getting special treatment, not "us."
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I think it depends on circumstances. In a fair, level, grounded debate this guy is meat.
HOWEVER, since he doesn't rely on facts or debate thereof, it's only propaganda left behind. Due to the fact that he is already banned and never asked to be reinstated, he should be summarily booted and his drivel removed.
It's not censorship, it's enforcement of TOS rules that we all have to live by except TheWho. He's the one getting special treatment, not "us."
Fine, talk to the owner of the site and see how she feels about it. I've seen her ban one person before (a survivor). She did not remove his postings.
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Also, it has nothing whatsoever to do with "deleting things we don't like" - you miss the point here. It's about an OFFICIALLY& BANNED AND NEVER REINSTATED poster continuing to post.
There's no need even to read what he writes. It should be promptly deleted whenever possible until he expresses contritiion and asks to be reinstated.
The subject matter of the posts is irrelevant and, therefore, by logical extension, whether anyone "likes" the content or not is also irrelevent.
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Also, it has nothing whatsoever to do with "deleting things we don't like" - you miss the point here. It's about an OFFICIALLY& BANNED AND NEVER REINSTATED poster continuing to post.
There's no need even to read what he writes. It should be promptly deleted whenever possible until he expresses contritiion and asks to be reinstated.
The subject matter of the posts is irrelevant and, therefore, by logical extension, whether anyone "likes" the content or not is also irrelevent.
It's not irrelevant. When there are posts in a thread that are deleted, it makes the thread confusing. If people are only reading responses to The Who's posts and don't see what they're responding to, it makes it very difficult to follow the discussion.
Look, I hate The Who as much as anyone else but banning him won't even work in the first place. All he's got to do is unplug his modem so it generates a new IP or use a proxy. And as I said, he only makes himself look like a big idiot.
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And as I said, he only makes himself look like a big idiot.
...while simultaneously derailing every thread and rendering them uselss and or unreadable anyway. Your reasoning for permitting this doesn't float.
He has a 300 page thread devoted entirely to him. Let him post there where it doesn't interfere with meaningful dialogue. Why turn the HLA threads into toilet fodder? Makes no sense to me.
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Ideology over reality, the same problem that causes programs.
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And as I said, he only makes himself look like a big idiot.
...while simultaneously derailing every thread and rendering them uselss and or unreadable anyway. Your reasoning for permitting this doesn't float.
He has a 300 page thread devoted entirely to him. Let him post there where it doesn't interfere with meaningful dialogue. Why turn the HLA threads into toilet fodder? Makes no sense to me.
Then take it up with the owner of the site.
He doesn't derail the threads. The tries to, but ends up looking like an ass.
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He doesn't derail the threads. He tries to, but ends up looking like an ass.
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Jesus.. how fucking hard is it to just ignore the guy....sheesh.. ::bangin::
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Jesus.. how fucking hard is it to just ignore the guy....sheesh.. ::bangin::
Thank you! ::cheers:: :smokin: ::bandit::
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Ideology over reality, the same problem that causes programs.
I think you have some organic problem with discerning the difference.
I am relating the facys, you are espousing an ideology. you have it backwards.
Facts:
The Who violated the TOS. TheWho was banned. TheWho is now posting anyway. TheWho is promoting child abuse.
Ideology:
You support "free speech trumps all," which is very misguided and not even supported by the Constitution.
Woefully misguided and stupid statement:
My thinking is the kind that creates programs.
Conclusion:
You need to reevaluate your positions because on their face they are inconsistent with objective reality.
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Ideology over reality, the same problem that causes programs.
I think you have some organic problem with discerning the difference.
I am relating the facys, you are espousing an ideology. you have it backwards.
Facts:
The Who violated the TOS. TheWho was banned. TheWho is now posting anyway. TheWho is promoting child abuse.
Ideology:
You support "free speech trumps all," which is very misguided and not even supported by the Constitution.
Woefully misguided and stupid statement:
My thinking is the kind that creates programs.
Conclusion:
You need to reevaluate your positions because on their face they are inconsistent with objective reality.
Don't ever, EVER tell a program survivor what the "need" to do.
::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::both:: ::fuckoff::
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Ideology over reality, the same problem that causes programs.
I think you have some organic problem with discerning the difference.
I am relating the facys, you are espousing an ideology. you have it backwards.
Facts:
The Who violated the TOS. TheWho was banned. TheWho is now posting anyway. TheWho is promoting child abuse.
Ideology:
You support "free speech trumps all," which is very misguided and not even supported by the Constitution.
Woefully misguided and stupid statement:
My thinking is the kind that creates programs.
Conclusion:
You need to reevaluate your positions because on their face they are inconsistent with objective reality.
Don't ever, EVER tell a program survivor what the "need" to do.
::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::both:: ::fuckoff::
Don't ever tell ME what to do or not do. Fuck off.
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Ideology over reality, the same problem that causes programs.
I think you have some organic problem with discerning the difference.
I am relating the facys, you are espousing an ideology. you have it backwards.
Facts:
The Who violated the TOS. TheWho was banned. TheWho is now posting anyway. TheWho is promoting child abuse.
Ok, this is actually a matter of opinion. He was banned for flooding.....meaning that he just posted the same shit over and over again. WE do that too, so some of us would be banned if we followed that.
Ideology:
You support "free speech trumps all," which is very misguided and not even supported by the Constitution.
This is a private forum. Talk to the owner if you don't like how she's runnign things.
Woefully misguided and stupid statement:
My thinking is the kind that creates programs.
The anon (another one, it wasn't me) didn't say that. What they said was this "Ideology over reality, the same problem that causes programs." You chose to apply that to yourself.
Conclusion:
You need to reevaluate your positions because on their face they are inconsistent with objective reality.
You need to fuck off.
:rofl:
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Don't ever tell ME what to do or not do. Fuck off.
I didn't ya fucking moron. That was YOU.
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I have a different opinion. If ANYHTING he says here is used by a parent to place their child in an abusive program, like HLA or ASR, for example, then it will cause damage to an innocent child for no reason other than we did nothing to stop it.
Let's face facts: He's here solely for the purpose of promoting programs and he posts falsehoods that support his mission.
Why should I allow myself to be his vehicle for the abuse of children?
Yourself? Is this Ginger?
Yes, I understood your opinion when you wrote it the first time. That's why I began my response with "I disagree". I still hold the opinion that if we start deleting things we don't like, we're no different than Lon Woodbury trying to control his forum. We all see how well that worked out.
^^^^ This.
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The anon (another one, it wasn't me) didn't say that. What they said was this "Ideology over reality, the same problem that causes programs." You chose to apply that to yourself.
Yes, in response to me. Learn to read for comprehension. Believe it or not, context in the English language is as important or more so than verbiage.
Now kindly eat shit and bark at the moon, half-wit.
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Yes, in response to me. Learn to read for comprehension. Believe it or not, context in the English language is as important or more so than verbiage.
Now kindly eat shit and bark at the moon, half-wit.
Actually, you have no idea. I thought they were responding regarding the "free speech" ideology, so you really have no idea.
My but you're grumpy today. Haven't gotten any in a while or what?
:rofl: :rofl:
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Fair enough. I am admittedly grumpy. It has more to do with work than sex though. Now if I could just get laid in my office every Monday, that would kill two birds with a single stone...
But, whatever. No sense in back-biting eachother - we agree on almost everything else I'm certain, but have a disagreement about this particular problem. I can live with that.
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Fair enough. I am admittedly grumpy. It has more to do with work than sex though. Now if I could just get laid in my office every Monday, that would kill two birds with a single stone...
But, whatever. No sense in back-biting eachother - we agree on almost everything else I'm certain, but have a disagreement about this particular problem. I can live with that.
Deal.
Seriously, if it bothers you that much talk to the owner or moderator. I don't think you'll get very far, but they are who you should be directing this stuff towards. I understand the impulse to ban him and agree with you that he's a shill. I just think it looks worse on us to start deleting things or banning people. It casts an air of suspicion that I'd rather not have.
::dove::
Relax, have a smoke on me. ::bandit:: :smokin:
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I would, but that's just one more thing they don't let me do in my office...
Tell ya what, though. I'll have one when I get home. Just back me up for now ; )
And, yes, I know about the channels to get things done here. That's how he got banned in the first place...
Thanks and take care!
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Two 'guests' getting confused and chewing each other's dicks(?) off...
So what else is new?
"The parents don't want to listen," and who can blame them? LOL
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Two 'guests' getting confused and chewing each other's dicks(?) off...
So what else is new?
"The parents don't want to listen," and who can blame them? LOL
Not really any confusion, just a slight disagreement on one issue.
We seem to be in complete harmony re:
1. The Who's a shill for programs
2. Getting laid is good
3. Smoking is good ::bandit::
No dick here, just a set of tits. :wink:
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Now if you'll kindly step into my office we can take care of my attitude adjustment forthwith... Oh yeah, don't forget the smoke!
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Be right there.
:rofl: ::bandit::
This good enough?
(http://http://www.elephantos.com/images/Northern%20Lights%20x%20Big%20Bud%20.jpg)
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(http://http://www.perfect-shit.com/shit.jpg)
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Jesus.. how fucking hard is it to just ignore the guy....sheesh.. ::bangin::
Jesus, how hard is it for people who have no horse in the HLA race to ignore what's going on in this forum??? Not sure where ya'll get off on droppin in mid conflict to voice an opinion. I wouldn't dream of coming to your forums and telling you how to run it, or how to resolve a conflict.
Your opinion doesn't matter anyway, the admin will make the call.
I see a whole lot of "responding" to program supporters in the TTI/Pure forums. What's the difference? Perhaps one of you could invite Who to stalk YOU for a while- follow you around and post innane BS everytime you post. Perfect opportunity to model how to ignore him. He doesn't stalk ya'll because you're not exposing one of his prefered programs.
Deleting posts does make the discussion harder to follow, but it hasn't stopped others from deleting their accounts and all their posts. Goes with the territory. As does posting anon. So many anons, one can't follow who's who in the discussion, can't tell one anon from another. Now, that makes for some interesting reading... 3 pages of arguing and sorting out which anon said what. Anon 1,2,3,4,5,6 IS JUST AS ANON as Guest.
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Jesus.. how fucking hard is it to just ignore the guy....sheesh.. ::bangin::
Jesus, how hard is it for people who have no horse in the HLA race to ignore what's going on in this forum??? Not sure where ya'll get off on droppin in mid conflict to voice an opinion. I wouldn't dream of coming to your forums and telling you how to run it, or how to resolve a conflict.
Your opinion doesn't matter anyway, the admin will make the call.
I see a whole lot of "responding" to program supporters in the TTI/Pure forums. What's the difference? Perhaps one of you could invite Who to stalk YOU for a while- follow you around and post innane BS everytime you post. Perfect opportunity to model how to ignore him. He doesn't stalk ya'll because you're not exposing one of his prefered programs.
Deleting posts does make the discussion harder to follow, but it hasn't stopped others from deleting their accounts and all their posts. Goes with the territory. As does posting anon. So many anons, one can't follow who's who in the discussion, can't tell one anon from another. Now, that makes for some interesting reading... 3 pages of arguing and sorting out which anon said what. Anon 1,2,3,4,5,6 IS JUST AS ANON as Guest.
How would you know how closely I follow this forum and whether I'm dropping in mid-conflict? You wanna devote your time (life?) to refuting everything Who posts, be my guest...
EDIT: I have no problem with Who's posts being deleted.
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Be right there.
:rofl: ::bandit::
This good enough?
(http://http://www.elephantos.com/images/Northern%20Lights%20x%20Big%20Bud%20.jpg)
Looks good enough for me. I like the dank as much as the next guy.
Now, as for those titties... Is a "set" larger or nicer than a "pair" or are the terms interchangeable? and, more importantly, do I get to have a go at 'em as well?
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Now, as for those titties... Is a "set" larger or nicer than a "pair"
Larger? No. Nicer? Abso-fucking-lutely.
or are the terms interchangeable? and, more importantly, do I get to have a go at 'em as well?
We'll have to see what a good boy you are.
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Now, as for those titties... Is a "set" larger or nicer than a "pair"
Larger? No. Nicer? Abso-fucking-lutely.
Probably a 3rd nipple.
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Now, as for those titties... Is a "set" larger or nicer than a "pair"
Larger? No. Nicer? Abso-fucking-lutely.
Probably a 3rd nipple.
Yuk. God no.
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OK, but all I can promise is to be less argumentative and refrain from affrontery. That's about as good as I get (in terms of behavior)...
This is shaping up to be a wonderful afternoon!
Your office or mine?
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How would you know how closely I follow this forum and whether I'm dropping in mid-conflict?
Your contributions to this forum:
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/search.php?mode=results (http://www.fornits.com/wwf/search.php?mode=results)
My favorite was the one in which you say you can't wait to have sex with the journalist who exposes the fraud and abuse in the industry.
You wanna devote your time (life?) to refuting everything Who posts, be my guest...
I really want you to hear this. I DON'T NEED YOUR PERMISSION or APPROVAL for who I choose to engage with. In six years, I have never told you what you should/shouldn't post or who you should/shouldn't engage with AND I'D APPRECIATE THE SAME LEVEL OF RESPECT. Can you do that?
Head back over and muse about who was offended about "Niles fucking a program parent til her eyes pop out." Now that's some useful dialogue right there. And apparently more worthy of people's time and Ginger's bandwidth, than refuting misrepresentations and out-right lies posted by Who.
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Some how, some way, the sum of all of this activity adds up to me not getting access to those boobs. And that, my dear friends, is a travesty...
once again left to matters into my own hands ; )
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My favorite was the one in which you say you can't wait to have sex with the journalist who exposes the fraud and abuse in the industry.
You liked that one, eh? And that's far from my 'A' material... LOL.
I really want you to hear this. I DON'T NEED YOUR PERMISSION or APPROVAL for who I choose to engage with. In six years, I have never told you what you should/shouldn't post or who you should/shouldn't engage with AND I'D APPRECIATE THE SAME LEVEL OF RESPECT. Can you do that?
Head back over and muse about who was offended about "Niles fucking a program parent til her eyes pop out." Now that's some useful dialogue right there. And apparently more worthy of people's time and Ginger's bandwidth, than refuting misrepresentations and out-right lies posted by Who.
Of course you don't need my (or anyone's) approval or permission to do anything! I never said or implied you did... I guess it's just that I'm of the opinion (and I know I'm not the only one) that TheWho should generally be ignored rather than given the satisfaction of...oh, nevermind... Next thing you know you'll be saying I'm trying to tell you what to do again! I'm not! If engaging in dialogue with Who makes you happy, then that is certainly your right and far be it from me or anyone else here to try and tell you not to do it. Refute that knucklehead's absurd claims until you're blue in the face (or, fingers), I'll never say anything to you (provided you're logged in) about it ever again!
So you liked the program mom thread too, eh? LMAO!
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So many anons, one can't follow who's who in the discussion, can't tell one anon from another. Now, that makes for some interesting reading... 3 pages of arguing and sorting out which anon said what. Anon 1,2,3,4,5,6 IS JUST AS ANON as Guest.
I try to keep my posts (most posts if I remember) unique by putting a ::hatter:: symbol at the bottom of my posts so people can follow along with my input or thoughts.
::hatter::
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....I'll never say anything to you (provided you're logged in) about it ever again!
He,He,He I like this guy, you have some fun people on staff too!
I posted 2 in a row, dont toss me for flooding, I wont make this a habit if I can help it.
::hatter::
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Now, as for those titties... Is a "set" larger or nicer than a "pair"
Larger? No. Nicer? Abso-fucking-lutely.
or are the terms interchangeable? and, more importantly, do I get to have a go at 'em as well?
We'll have to see what a good boy you are.
I'll be needing that face time with your boobs today. When are you bringing them by?
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It's POURING out. I can't leave now. You come over here.
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Please, please be in the NYC metro area...
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[Sigh] No, I'm not. Quite a bit south. Sorry. :(
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How did I know this would happen... :cry: I really could have used some deep funk smoke and that set of titties to brighten up my day. This is sad.
So, on a better note, where exactly should I be taking my next road trip?
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Just head south. When you can't go any further south, let me know and I'll meet ya.
How 'bout right here.
(http://http://www.saltwaterangler.com/photos/key_west_angler_photo14.jpg)
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Just head south. When you can't go any further south, let me know and I'll meet ya.
How 'bout right here.
(http://http://www.saltwaterangler.com/photos/key_west_angler_photo14.jpg)
Awww, two anons getting their flirt on. Who says Fornits doesn't do any good? :D
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i doubt the mods will ever ban you or delete your posts permanatly, this community believs in free speech [unlike yourself].
If “the who” is really back it is because when the Admins went looking for all the flooding you were crying about they didn’t find any. He exposed you deleting peoples threads and changing their wording and you wanted him gone so you could continue leading all these people down your personal path.
I am not interested in changing anyones mind about HLA, most (if not all here on fornits) have their minds made up. I just want the new readers and parents to realize the cards are stacked against them if they decide share their story or point of view and that they are viewing filtered information. Any neutral or positive discussion may be altered or deleted to insure a negative view of HLA.
I think it is only fair that you are up front with them.
::hatter::
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thewho is the author of the above post.
::hatter::
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Any neutral or positive discussion may be altered or deleted to insure a negative view of HLA.
This is complete bullshit.
If the admins were going to edit crap, you wouldn't be here.
QED.
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Any neutral or positive discussion may be altered or deleted to insure a negative view of HLA.
This is complete bullshit.
If the admins were going to edit crap, you wouldn't be here.
QED.
No one knows for sure until it happens to them. Its life in the big city, nothing we can do about it.
But its important that the readers know it is happening so they can take that into account when making a decision for their child. If your posts were being altered I think you would want the readers (or others who may post) to know.
::hatter::
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yet again, thewho.
please, dont forget the hatter symbol again. ::hatter::
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No, it's not happening.
You just can't keep your fucking story straight.
If it actually was happening, you'd surely have saved before and after pages by now.
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Any neutral or positive discussion may be altered or deleted to insure a negative view of HLA.
This is complete bullshit.
If the admins were going to edit crap, you wouldn't be here.
QED.
No one knows for sure until it happens to them. Its life in the big city, nothing we can do about it.
But its important that the readers know it is happening so they can take that into account when making a decision for their child. If your posts were being altered I think you would want the readers (or others who may post) to know.
::hatter::
I seriously doubt that's happening but if you really feel that way then
FUCKING SIGN IN[/color]
How difficult is that?
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i doubt the mods will ever ban you or delete your posts permanatly, this community believs in free speech [unlike yourself].
If “the who” is really back it is because when the Admins went looking for all the flooding you were crying about they didn’t find any. He exposed you deleting peoples threads and changing their wording and you wanted him gone so you could continue leading all these people down your personal path.
I am not interested in changing anyones mind about HLA, most (if not all here on fornits) have their minds made up. I just want the new readers and parents to realize the cards are stacked against them if they decide share their story or point of view and that they are viewing filtered information. Any neutral or positive discussion may be altered or deleted to insure a negative view of HLA.
I think it is only fair that you are up front with them.
::hatter::
Why would TheWho say "if TheWho were back"? Problems with those voices in your shrunken head again, Who?
Why are you back to beating the dead horse of "altered posts" again when it was proven time and again that you - TheWho - was the only one altering your posts by editing them after you were caught lying about a number of items?
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I seriously doubt that's happening but if you really feel that way then
How difficult is that?
First, I havent thought of a sign-in name yet and second, signing in wont stop the posts from being altered or deleted. This has been established already.
I have mentioned (in the other thread) that I am leaving the cat-in-the-hat symbol off for the day and the post is being edited to add the symbol. It was added to that post and will probably be added to this one also. So the question of editing posts has been answered.
::hatter::
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I seriously doubt that's happening but if you really feel that way then
How difficult is that?
First, I havent thought of a sign-in name yet and second, signing in wont stop the posts from being altered or deleted. This has been established already.
I have mentioned (in the other thread) that I am leaving the cat-in-the-hat symbol off for the day and the post is being edited to add the symbol. It was added to that post and will probably be added to this one also. So the question of editing posts has been answered.
So no one is editing them, they're just adding the cat in the hat guy. What's the big deal?
You can't think of a name? Please. Come up with a better excuse. Pick a name, register, sign in EVERY post and I think you'll find that nothing will be deleted or altered (aside from obvious flooding).
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Blah blah blah...my posts were edited... blah blah... no they weren't... blah..
I, for one, won't be wasting any more of my time on this one...
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Yeah, we know by now. You keep coming over here and posting that you'll be ignoring all this shit from now on.
::bwahaha::
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Uh, yeah, TheWho has a little bit of a problem with a concept known as "truth telling." He's a habitual and chronic prevaricator.
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Yeah, we know by now. You keep coming over here and posting that you'll be ignoring all this shit from now on.
::bwahaha::
Shaddup, anon.. :rofl:
I may read some of it, but I won't get involved.
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:rofl: :rofl:
:smokin: ::bandit:: ::cheers::