Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Elan School => Topic started by: java.gurl on July 09, 2007, 03:07:13 PM
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The General Meeting
hanzomon4 wrote:
What is a gm? I've seen it mentioned in a few post but it's never explained?
A General Meeting is when your whole house gets together,
usually in the dining room
A stage is set
They wait for you
All of your "peers"
With twisted hatred
you stand before them
Then the house arises
And rushes toward you
yelling and spitting on you
Releasing brainwashed phony hatred
After a while
After everyone has "got their feelings off for you"
The Director takes over as MC for the show.
He flays you piece by piece.
The crowd feeds on the sickness
This could last 2-24 or more hours.
Depending on how many houses.
How many people are getting a GM.
How Many Costumes/Signs ect.
Plese add what you remember
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Eliscu wrote the above to describe a general meeting to a person that had never been in Elan....I believe it is pretty accurate. What do you all think?
What was the worst GM/Ring/3 House you ever saw?
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General meetings were when Arthur Warshawsky enjoyed fucking with teens. He loved to abuse them and that is his sole purpose for being here with us today. To continue on abusing and being an asshole for all that oppose Elan.
Nice fuckin life Artie.. :rofl:
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I never saw a GM go 24 hours. The longest I ever saw was four or five hours for two kids who had sex.
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General meetings were when Arthur Warshawsky enjoyed fucking with teens. He loved to abuse them and that is his sole purpose for being here with us today. To continue on abusing and being an asshole for all that oppose Elan.
Nice fuckin life Artie.. :rofl:
Sounds like I am not happy about being a liar. I should be more careful OR
I should not post this crap that I am responsible for.
for example... I lie about everything
But then again
I am,by definition,insane.
Now I am throwin a tantrum for all to see.
Now thats what I call a "twister"
I gotta go to Atlanta this week. But I have another suprise for you Dave.Maybe when I get back. I will pose naked on "Plentyoffish.com"
Have a nice day
::roflmao:: ::roflmao:: ::roflmao:: ::roflmao:: ::roflmao::
http://www.plentyoffish.com/member942655.htm (http://www.plentyoffish.com/member942655.htm)
(http://http://amysrobot.com/files/peeweesunderpants.jpg)
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Some interesting reading here for any one who cares. Full content found at http://www.crimeandjustice.us/forums/lo ... t4462.html (http://www.crimeandjustice.us/forums/lofiversion/index.php?t4462.html)
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Still, the memories of Elan don't sit well with everyone.
Art Warshawsky said he has been haunted for more than 20 years by the images of berated, beaten and bloodied teen-agers from his years at Elan in the late 1970s and early 1980s. His parents sent him to Elan from Chicago when he was 15.
Warshawsky, who now owns a small business in Portland, Ore., said the Skakel trial has triggered memories of what he says was a secret world where abused kids became abusers to survive.
''It was probably the most horrible experience of my life,'' Warshawsky said.
_____________________________________________________
Artie.... Did you have to become an abuser to survive???
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Just another tidbit from our buddy Artie!!!!
:o :o :wave: :wave: :wave: :cry2: :cry2:
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From: Artman1112 Sent: 9/16/2003 8:04 AM
WELL DONE...
exactly what we dont need to interfere with whats really goin on.. i know exactly where that came from and it can stay right where it belongs
either the other side of the tracks (fornits) or in the recycle bin
mostly one in the same
this is the kind of behavior i was talkin about that will be used against anyone looking to follow a legal avenue as we are.let them be discredited. i fully expect to tell my story without bein called on this kinda thing.
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From: Artman1112 Sent: 9/18/2003 4:46 PM
Hello Everyone
it appears that i may have pissed some people off with a previous post about our friends from Fornits.
I posted the same info there as i did in other Elan related sites.The purpose was for some kind of solidarity.I have been told that this was rude and a few other explanatives
I do not,and will not post on that site.I do not and will not participate in a discussion that centers around fecal matter,urination,sex with dead people or the general assualt on all,including myself that has been the staple of topics that i read from time to time on that site.
I find it counter productive to my own mental health and esteem to be ascociated with such behavior.That in no means precludes anyone from being a part of OUR cause and common goal.This isnot,never was and never will be about me,its about us and what WE can do for one another.Thats the REAL deal.
I'm sure that we all,have the same stories to tell,with small variations from one generation to the next.But lets face it I am not in my 20's or in my 30's and dont communicate the same way as others from fornits.
I certainly hope that you all can apreciate my circumstance and be a part of this thing
if not ... bless you anyway
art warshawsky
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Hey Artie.....
Why did you lie to that forum???
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Fartman11111 Ain't no one talking about fecal matter and piss, or was it that is WHAT you enjoy talking about?
I see you mention it quite often. Do you have a fecal fetish or something :question:
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Fartman11111 Ain't no one talking about fecal matter and piss, or was it that is WHAT you enjoy talking about?
I see you mention it quite often. Do you have a fecal fetish or something :question:
Artman and the "BROWN SHOWER"
::roflmao:: ::roflmao:: ::roflmao:: ::roflmao:: ::roflmao:: ::roflmao::
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I am truly sorry that you are having such a tough day. Meds would be a better option than bein the temper tantrum throwing child that we all see
I hope you get better one day
Some interesting reading here for any one who cares. Full content found at http://www.crimeandjustice.us/forums/lo ... t4462.html (http://www.crimeandjustice.us/forums/lofiversion/index.php?t4462.html)
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Still, the memories of Elan don't sit well with everyone.
Art Warshawsky said he has been haunted for more than 20 years by the images of berated, beaten and bloodied teen-agers from his years at Elan in the late 1970s and early 1980s. His parents sent him to Elan from Chicago when he was 15.
Warshawsky, who now owns a small business in Portland, Ore., said the Skakel trial has triggered memories of what he says was a secret world where abused kids became abusers to survive.
''It was probably the most horrible experience of my life,'' Warshawsky said. _____________________________________________________
Artie.... Did you have to become an abuser to survive???
_____________________________________________________
Hey Artie.... Can you not answer the freaking question???? The words came straight out of your mouth to a reporter.... Why can't you say it here???
P.S.
As for your so called law suits you have been talking about for the past couple of years on the boards.... Well you have no "Credability" as you have tried to skirt tail around the truth here but slipped up and admitted it publicly elsewhere. The fore mentioned post was the only thing that was needed to put your "LAWSUIT" where it belongs... "on the other side of the tracks or the recycle bin" ( Just using your own words back at you ). You should probably call your lawyer and tell him to quit wasting his time and your money. ::roflmao:: ::roflmao:: ::roflmao:: ::roflmao::
Oh and Artie.... Fuck you
(http://http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d93/Row-shell/middle-finger.jpg)
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Is that the deal with this Art guy? He won't admit to mistreating fellow Elan "students"?
Isn't it true that many Elan "students" committed acts of abuse against others, be it during GMs, restraints, or any of the other stuff thats been reported? No shame in admitting doing horrible things due to force or coercion by Elan.
I do find it interesting however how many, especially the Elan supporters, love to tare people down here. That seems to be a clear indication that these folks were indeed exposed to an environment where abuse meant power, embraced, and now perpetuate it.
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Is that the deal with this Art guy? He won't admit to mistreating fellow Elan "students"?
Actually the deal with Artie goes deeper.... Artie was a staff member at Elan who continues to abuse other people. He is constantly in conflict with anyone who is not a Elan supporter.
Artie is also two faced as he post on other sites putting down "Fornits" and those of us who post here. He tells the other sites that he would not post here, however here he is on a daily basis. Artie is in fact a liar.
I appologize to you for having to see many of us who are trying to help him admit his truth so healing can begin on all parts. With out it Artie will always remain an abusive liar.
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No apologies I'm just learning about Elan, slowly, and that was the first time I read something specific regarding the beef with this guy. I noticed that he, and others, put down survivors at every possible moment for no reason. His behavior and that of other posters(mostly Pro-Elan) kinda confirm the environment you were all exposed to at Elan.
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This kid ought to share teh drugs he is taking
I am none of the things described. In fact this asswipe doesnt even know me. If you are looking for true info,this would be the worst place to look
oh and BP
Go fuck yourself
a secret world where abused kids became abusers to survive.
''It was probably the most horrible experience of my life,'' Warshawsky said. _____________________________________________________
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Actually the deal with Artie goes deeper.... Artie was a staff member at Elan who continues to abuse other people. He is constantly in conflict with anyone who is not a Elan supporter.
Artie is also two faced as he post on other sites putting down "Fornits" and those of us who post here. He tells the other sites that he would not post here, however here he is on a daily basis. Artie is in fact a liar.
I appologize to you for having to see many of us who are trying to help him admit his truth so healing can begin on all parts. With out it Artie will always remain an abusive liar.
Hey Artie.... What part of this is not true on my part??? I can refer you to where you posted the words that I've quoted and you trying to deny them only makes you a liar.
As far as your actions go, they have spoken for themself. Especially when people come in here and peg you from the start.
You have no credability.
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Coming from Fornits trolls.. that actually makes me feel better
You are a waste of skin...
Again,please,,go fuck yourself
What's wrong "Troll Fag"??? Did I hurt it's little feeling and make it want to cry. :cry2: :cry2: :cry2: :cry2: :cry2: :cry2:
For the love of God Artie... What is the big deal about admitting the truth??? If I loved liars I would hug your neck.
Oh and Artie......
a secret world where abused kids became abusers to survive.
''It was probably the most horrible experience of my life,'' Warshawsky said. _____________________________________________________
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You are kinda thick. I dont think you have realized how little I care about what you think. Your opinion is the same to me as your gay lover Dave.
I dont really care if you want to make an ass out of yourself.Or spew the hate that fornits is known for. I am not interested
a secret world where abused kids became abusers to survive.
''It was probably the most horrible experience of my life,'' Warshawsky said. _____________________________________________________
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You are kinda thick. I dont think you have realized how little I care about what you think. Your opinion is the same to me as your gay lover Dave.I dont really care if you want to make an ass out of yourself.Or spew the hate that fornits is known for. I am not interested
Oh by the way.... If I was Gay, I would be gay and proud.... Unlike you being a liar and an abuser and hide it in shame and lies.
a secret world where abused kids became abusers to survive.
''It was probably the most horrible experience of my life,'' Warshawsky said. _____________________________________________________
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You suck at being a liar Fartman11111
You are so busted :exclaim: Mine as well stick your left foot in your mouth along with the right one. That is if there is any room amongst the cocks in your mouth.
What I can't figure out is: You cry foul about Fornits at other sites. yet come here and post at least a dozen times a day.
I really pegged you when I asked if you are a cocaine user. You show signs of major paranoid behavior You think everyone else is one person and everyone is out to get you.
I see a brown noser, cocaine addicted, Gin drinking , liar drunk, who enjoys harrassing people who despise elan. You Fartman11111
have some serious metal issues along with chemical dependence issues.
You have all this free time to post garbage and I betcha your ass is unemployed and Unemployable..
You're a 2 faced peice of trash who infiltrates web boards only to gain what :question:
Your ugly mug is parked at plentyoffish and you still can't find a suitable date because you are LOONEY
If you were a staff member at elan when I was there, I would've enjoyed spitting in your face. I can only imagine how abusive you were back then and how much you got off on it.
You have nothing but enimies here Fartman11111 and I even think your toe licking buddy has abandoned you.
I know you are not capable of answering questions, so I'll leave you with this.
When you wake up in the morning and look in the mirror, you should ask yourself why you are such a LOSER :question:
NOW GO BACK TO BEING A COCAINE JUNKIE AND CARRY ON WITH YOUR CARPET FARMING.
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Warshawsky, who now owns a small business in Portland, Ore., said the Skakel trial has triggered memories of what he says was a secret world where abused kids became abusers to survive. [/color]
I do not care who said the above statement. All I do know is that it is 110% true.
It does not matter if you were considered an Elan-lite or one of the old school hard core residents.
Being an Elan grad does not make the statement any less true.
Nothing makes the statement any less true.
Just because YOU slid through Elan like a hot knife through a stick of butter does NOT mean everyone else was in the same boat as you.
You were luckier than the obviously mental student(s) who needed medicine and therapy more than a GM. There were PLENTY of those kids in Elan.
I try not to challenge peoples memories of Elan and their personal experience(s) there. Who am I after all to tell a person that they are full of shit for thinking their experience was the worst and rotten and that they were abused verbally and mentally?
What seemed like childs play to me was most likely traumatizing and humiliating to another.
And vice versa.
It's hard to say what was really abuse, brainwashing, humiliation tactics, Etc.
You have so many people that think Elan sucked and was hell on earth and you have others that think it sucked but was OK for the most part.
All these different opinions cause ruffled feathers when people get heated on the message boards. The posts start off as a "friendly" debate and eventually turn into a war when discussions of Elan and its treatment of us students/residents pops up.
No matter the trips offered for being in a "strength" posistion or the little jobs Re-Entery gets or the house trips white water rafting it still does NOT make up for all of the bullshit BEFORE and AFTER the trip(s).
Fact is we were encouraged to "snitch" and book people and get our feelings off for people.
No matter how wrong you thought it was personally, it truly did NO good to rebel against it or bring it to peoples attention in Elan. They would blabber on and on about the way Elan works and why it is a success.
They need a better screening process. Kids with certain disabilities and mucho mental issues are not good canidates for Elan and what you are put through there. It can make a fragile person snap in a major way. Hell, I've seen dudes with hudge ego's and that were certified major bad asses cry like babies in their GM's or encounter groups. Go figure.
Thats just this humble persons take on the situation.
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This was very true at the hell pit that I was in, too...
There were some who really seemed to get off on being pricks, though.
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Hey Java I dont think I have ever seem such a great post on here ever!
What you wrote was just so true.
AS FOR THIS ----(No matter the trips offered for being in a "strength" posistion )
Some of the trips they sent me on as strenght you know the home visit yup they were a trip. Ever meet someones mom on Thanksgiving and she just happens to bring her (John-trick) with? Yeah that was a real treat for me and the poor girl I was with. We were a whole 14 years old.... Elan was really looking out for us ,,, what a joke!
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I need to remember that the darker colored fonts I like to use don't always show up on your screens. I keep doing this to you all. Sorry guys and gals :oops:
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Warshawsky, who now owns a small business in Portland, Ore., said the Skakel trial has triggered memories of what he says was a secret world where abused kids became abusers to survive. [/color]
I do not care who said the above statement. All I do know is that it is 110% true.
I am all with your honesty on the forementioned. I too was responsible dishing out abuse while I was held prisoner at the place of hell in which I am from. I freely admit that I was wrong and done wrong.
Today I am "Anti-Program" as I know what the truth of my own experiences were and I would not want any child put through the same punishment. The "Geneva Convention" declares this type of abuse as cruel and unusual and raises many red flags towards humanitarian concerns which are addressed in the treaties.
The "Geneva Convention" is typically mentioned during times of war and well... I was a POW in a war ( The War Against Drugs ). I am empathetic towards others who were in the same situation. However when a person can not or will not acknowledge their part or just plain out lie about it. what is there left to do??? Empathy / sympathy must end at this point and the reality must be exposed.
As far as who wrote the formentioned words at the very top, it does matter as this person is only here for chaos. You would think that that the person that says the stuff above would come here and say the same thing... Telling the truth no matter what is known as integrity. Where is the integrity????
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It IS a very insightful statement. If the poster has a bad rep for being a liar and/or a hypocrite and still puts that statement out on "front street" knowing how people would react to it and him, then I gotta pat that person on the back for doing it despite the consequences and the potential backlash.
However, it does not vindicate a person that has wreaked havoc non stop for a long time.
I try to remain 100% posotive about people in general. I have seen so much ugliness in such a short life that I am saddened for my 8 year old daughter to grow up in this world.
Thus far her/our loving family has "shielded" her and are letting her fully enjoy the beauty of childhood before puberty hits and she is boy crazy and experimental and before the wistfull innocence slowly fades away into adulthood and all of it's trial and tribulations are thrust upon her and her friends.
Everyone dealt with Elan and the aftermath of it in their own way. After Elan nearly all of us were a little shell shocked and it was very understandable.
I don't put a person down that got fucked up by the place nor do I try to force a person to feel bad about their role in Elan if they feel there is no need to feel bad. So be it.
It is up to the individual.
I HAD a hard time admitting the role(s) I played in Elan, at first.
I was SO against the joint and the methods used in it. But I too joined in on occasion and did to people what I had done to me, the things I truly hated just to get off of a shotdown or get out of the corner or to move up a position or to get people off my back.
All I wanted after awhile was peace and quiet and to get to bed before midnight on a weekday.To stop the obnoxious resident pulling on the post from shining a flashlight in my eyes and saying "Is she asleep yet?" I got into a lot of trouble for snatching the light and chuckin it on the floor off of a top bunk!
A young person can only take so much horse shit and abuse in general before they snap.
For crying outloud we were barely out of puberty (most of us anyways) and were thrown into roles in Elan that were hard on the mind and the heart and the conscience.
Game playing was the daily norm, liking changing your underware. Students and staff alike played all the games and made up a few as they went along. We were so young and naive for the most part.
We had seen ugliness before Elan and one time I talked to a few of the hard core, bad ass dudes that came into Elan and they told me that this was like nothing they have ever seen or experienced before.
A lot of us lost a vital growth period in life. How can one "grow" in Elan? They can't. In a healthy way, anyways. I was taught how to be petty and underhanded and passive agressive. This is my opinion and mine alone.
Maybe someone else was taught something they consider to be more posotive and usefull. Unless you work for Corporate America then the Elan experience will serve you well.
I was sick of being a shotdown and scrubbing the garbage can area on my hands and knees only to have a power trippin ram-rod run their fingers along the floor and say "Look at this dirt and filth, did you even clean it? You need to do it over again and do it right this time!"
I wanted to smack them people with a shit stained mop! POW! Right in the smacker!
I got my feelings off to "look good", I booked people, I dropped slips, I got my feelings off in a few GM's, I did the "pull up" thing, Etc.
I can count on one hand all the times I got my feelings of for a person for a legit reason. One of those times was for my BFF who split and got caught. Then it was not anger it was sadness and hurt for leaving me all alone in this place.
My legit times were not anger related really, mostly being hurt by a friend. I saw so many people that were just screaming machines in every group/GM. How can one person be so angry in every group? I guess some used it as a release. Can't blame em.
Some people were able to withstand the screaming and the "tear them down to build them up" method. Some were not. Those who could not deal with it were not "bad" people or "less than" those who could.
After Elan we have all seen the graduates do well and the non graduates fuck up and vice versa. Who's to say how our life would of ended up if we were non graduates or graduates? Marc or Jeffrey or Tania or Claire or Petey or Missy or Terry?
No, they were NOT the all knowing guru's they made themselves out to be. They predicted grim fates for us fuckups/non graduates and the really funny thing is that I have seen more fuckups do better after Elan than the so called superstars of Elan. Life is not that predictable. They did not have the power of the 3rd eye.
The therapy Elan passes off is not therapy at all. Come on now, what sane therapist condones verbal abuse to put someone in check or to help a person get over an issue? Not those that want to retain their license to practice anyways.
Yes, Elan sucked. Yes, Elan was all kinds of fucked up. Yes, Elan was abusive to it's residents. Yes, the residents abused one another.
Whether you were released 2 days ago or 20 years ago the fact that you are here posting about it means it is on your mind in some way shape or form. To find old pals or to reminisce. By looking up old pals I knowingly brought Elan back into my world again along with the happiness of finding an old friend I had to deal with Elan and all the rotten things it stood for in my life.
I tried to forget all about my experience in Elan. You can't forget them. Maybe that's the point.
Lets face it, some of us think that people need to get over it and move on, then there are some of us that think those people are insensitive assholes and that Elan needs to be exposed in all it's glory.
Whether you were there 2 days ago or 40 years ago it does not lessen the trauma and pain you feel when thinking about Elan and it's abusive ways. We all saw fucked up shit, we all said to ourselves at one point that what was going down was dead wrong and did NOT want to participate in it. The consequences were to severe for NOT participating.
The fact that we all gather here with our different ages, colors, backgrounds, experiences, Etc. and share about Elan or life in general is great. It has led to many people hooking up again, old beefs get squashed, shit gets worked out and talked about, we laugh our ass's off at the other people here, argue like cats and dogs, meet new people online, reminisce, catch up on gossip about other residents, share happy and sad stories we hear about ex residents, Etc.
If only we showed such solidarity while in Elan then maybe places like Fornits would not be needed so much.
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Like anywhere else there will be uber drama and issues to contend with.
Don't take yourself so serious on this board. Just keep it all easy and breezy...
I like to read other people posts when they are sharing about their Elan experience.
I like to hear the goods about old staff and residents I had long forgotten about. Hopefully it is good news though.
Elan people dieing is sad. Especially if it was from their own hand and not an accident.
Every few weeks in Elan a peer group was formed and they were introduced to one another and they went through the program together in good and bad times. Some became friends, some did not.
They all have their take on Elan. Some say it was bad, some say good, some say nothing.
Years later they get into contact with their long lost pals and it is (hopefully) a nice reunion.
The place was intense at times and you can hardly forget such things and those who helped you through it all.
As for the arguing and other shit here on Fornits one must wonder, will there ever be an end?
Maybe not. Maybe so.
Regardless people will talk. Be it good or bad or both.
What can one do? Leave and never return or stick it out and weed through the shit you want your name associated with and avoid what you look at as negative. That's how I see it others may have differing opinions.
Have a great day everyone :)
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Arthur!!!!!!!!! You silly fucking fruit fly!! Hows your little nut sack ya nigger loving spic sympatizer!! :cry2: :lol: :lol: :lol: Long time no chat....Get Julio's cock out of your cake hole and gimme a shout, NIGGER JEW!!! ::nails:: ::nails:: ::nails:: ::bwahaha2:: ::bwahaha:: :wave: :wave: :wave: :scared: :scared: :wave: ::nails:: :rofl: :wave:
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Arthur!!!!!!!!! You silly fucking fruit fly!! Hows your little nut sack ya nigger loving spic sympatizer!! :cry2: :lol: :lol: :lol: Long time no chat....Get Julio's cock out of your cake hole and gimme a shout, NIGGER JEW!!! ::nails:: ::nails:: ::nails:: ::bwahaha2:: ::bwahaha:: :wave: :wave: :wave: :scared: :scared: :wave: ::nails:: :rofl: :wave:
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So, let me understand. Your ole purpose her is/was to expose me for the liar I am[/color][/b][/i].
Good good are you done yet?
Hey Artie.... Not even close to being done.... The question I pose to you is..... Are you done lying????
(http://http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m99/wakemeup778/liar.jpg)
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Arthur!!!!!!!!! You silly fucking fruit fly!! Hows your little nut sack ya nigger loving spic sympatizer!! :cry2: :lol: :lol: :lol: Long time no chat....Get Julio's cock out of your cake hole and gimme a shout, NIGGER JEW!!! ::nails:: ::nails:: ::nails:: ::bwahaha2:: ::bwahaha:: :wave: :wave: :wave: :scared: :scared: :wave: ::nails:: :rofl: :wave:
More friends of yours scartie? They're just coming in groves huh Scartie? Talk about a man without a counrty. You in the wrong place with the wrong cause Scartie.
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Dave
You (for once ) are right ! There is noone here.Why do you think that is Dave?
Why don't you takea loo at youself dumbass and you might have the real answer.
You have run off anyone who disagree's with you or points out the obvious mental disorder(s) that seem to plague you.
No... You just run out of money to pay them to try to defend your dumb ass.
Where is Jonny? Amanda? Jimmy? Pete? Maria ? Jackie? and many others whom you have assaulted.
Obviously somewhere spending your hard earned money from the grope hole that you call a job.
Personally,i dont care what you post. I think its a freak show that I enjoy.
Damn... I have never seen a dumb ass like you. You are correct about it being a "Freak Show", it has become the Warshawsky show where you are the freak that is on display.... Dumbass
You pretend like you have teammates by using "how many" anon monikers to agree with yourself.
Hey dumbass.... This is what you do, why can't you get it through your thick ass skull to that little peanut brain that you are a disease to this forum. It almost like having herpes you have flare ups, however you can never get rid of it..... Dumbass
oh and call your P.O. He is gonna get a copy of some of your rants.
Its all public record Dave
Now here is a real example of you being a dumbass.... How is the PO going to be able to pin the rants on anybody??? We all have screen names and you are the onlyone throwing a real name out there.... Dumbass
PS...
Dumbass is the word of the day when referring to you
(http://http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p118/the_medicine_man/ALICE.png)
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Good comeback...You never answered my question..
How does Andy's ass taste BP= big pussy
I can see that you have put some real deep thought into your response.... and I did say thought, not throat.
As far as the way Andy's ass tasting, I will need to wipe it off of your face in order to tell.
(http://http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z184/akuma30/eric_estrada_youre_a_homo.jpg)
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Just take a real good look folks. Scartie is getting all upset because no one answered his stupid questions, but yet when a real legit question is asked for Scartie he just blows it off no matter what. Not sure of all the names Scartie is talking about, but I do know some, and yes they do post here from time to time, some within the last 2 weeks. So that makes you that much more of a liar scartie. You think everyone here is named Dave or Andy or both and uses the #1 service provider *comcast*. Is that the best you can come up with scartman?
Sounds like you are the one with a PO officer to answer too Scartie, for you have been talking about it more and more as of recent. Did you recently get placed on probation for something? Perhaps loving a child too much in your geographical area?
Why do you come here Scartie? You have no one here that likes you, and I mean *NO ONE* You obviously come here to not only continue the abuse as what a staff at elan was infamous for, but I also think you get excited just to have someone talk to you, whether they like you or not. I know if I wasn't liked at a particular forum I would not go to it.
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How many times over the years have you posted that Art? Come up with something new or drop it. It's really getting old.
God Grand Artie the Smarts
to pull his head out of his ass
The guts to follow through
And the weight loss to move
his fat ass away from the computer.
GET TO YOUR MEETING ART.
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Gee..wonder which one that belongs too
What? Learn your adverbs/adjectives!!
Dumbass
:roll: :rofl:
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Have you considered shock treatment ?
Psychotropic meds?
you are very twisted
Though I commend you on your tantrums
They are VERY amusing
Hey Dumbass.... I think you have too much information on the treatment of mental illnesss. Have you been going to a psyciatrist?? have some of these methods of treatment been discussed or used on you in attempt to cure you.
Oh yeah Dumbass I notice that you are very busy on your computer in the day and not at night.... Is that because the porno shop is not very busy until night time and it would be a waste of time to have your mouth pinned to the grope hole in hopes of some action???
Does your sponsor approve of this??? Get you ass to a meeting, and this time try to go there sober.
By the way dumbass
Quit groping yourself as you read.
(http://http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t177/putty_2007/puttycartoongrope.png)
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You think everyone here is named Dave or Andy or both and uses the #1 service provider *comcast.
thats pretty funny dave.. you borrowed that phrase from 2 years ago..When someone said the same thing..
Hey Dumbass.... Don't you realize there is a thing known as the "Statute Of Limitations" which on most things is only 2 years, so get on with you stupidity or get over it.....
Better yet just fucking leave....
(http://http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u296/guitarbandit07/middle_finger.jpg)
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Good comeback...You never answered my question..
How does Andy's ass taste BP= big pussy
I can see that you have put some real deep thought into your response.... and I did say thought, not throat.
As far as the way Andy's ass tasting, I will need to wipe it off of your face in order to tell.
(http://http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z184/akuma30/eric_estrada_youre_a_homo.jpg)
Eric Estrada is da shit! I had such a crush on him as a wee one. I would sit in my babysitters basement/playroom and watch CHIPS reruns early in the AM waiting for her lazy ass to wake up and do her job. That was back in the 80's and CHIPS was already in syndication.
I actually have a self taped CHIPS DVD boxset. I am waiting for a "Wonder Woman" one next.
If they have stupid shows like "Charmed" why not a kick ass one like "Wonder Woman"? Do you know how that would fly off of the shelves? The stores could not stock the "WW" boxsets quick enough!
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Damn it all to hell you guys got ALL of these posts posted right under my nose! I have been here chillin and reading old posts the entire time and you all must be smoking crack. No one can post like that in such a short amount of time! Do you all got some sort of "booster" hooked up to your computers?
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You missed some extra important bullshit too...Dave Kaczorowski and Big Pussy playing the little girl game...
I am gettin in the water..its like 100 degrees out here
cheers
Now Scartie.... Look at who is being nasty.... I'm sure that now one wants any shit out of you....
And well I sure wouldn't swim in the water behind your home like you.
(http://http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h266/divenaut/Sewer.jpg)
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Bite me hit the nail on the head with that.. Scartie and his seasonal threats. Tell me something Scartie, what exactly goes through your mind when you write all this same crap over and over again? Do you think you are scaring us? Are we suppose to say *Oh no! Scartie is threatening action against us because we do not agree with him*?
You know what your problem is Scartie and why you come here and act like such a prick? Because of all the hardships life has dealt out to you. Your wife left you because of your hard core boozing. Your Children keep a long distance relationship away from you most likely because when they see you they know Scartie for being a hard core boozing falling down the stairs asshole.
You accuse us for running people off this board?? Now thats what I call having a *NERVE*. Did it ever occur to you that you ran them off? Hell, the moderator was all over your case a year ago because you acted like such a cry-baby when people didn't see eye to eye with you, I guess you forgot all about that huh? Very convienent of you scartie. How about the other moderator elicsu? She had to put you in your place earlier this year.
You are a loser Scartman, Everything you post is fantasy and lies .Just like your little *I'm flying to Atlanta then driving down to Tampa with my cousin*, yet 24 hrs later here you are running your mouth off again and making up more lies.
I think I got you figured out now. When you say you are meeting with clients, you are actually meeting with a PO officer and/or a sponser. Because you were mandated in the past by court order to attend an AA meeting for your alcoholism which eventially dissolved your marriage and seperated you from your family. Hurts huh?
You also had a job that bearly paid the bills, matter of fact all your monies went to the booze that you drank everyday and your now ex-wife got tired of supporting a drunk, jobless husband. Good for her.
So you now after all these years stuffed all those feelings of rejectment and failure and come to this forum and make up lies and think you can paint a nice portrait of yourself and attempt to win over some friends. But there is a problem, its not working. There are a bunch of people here that despise you Scartie, they are laughing at you and cursing you out on a daily basis. Do you enjoy being hated?
Do you also think your old elan staff mind tricks will work on us? At least come up with some new kind of threat for gods sake! And to top off the cake for you: If anyone is being an annoying, harrassing, foul mouthed slandering little prick, it is YOU bar none.
You've made some pretty big mistakes Scartie, and also have painted yourself into a corner from the looks of it. :rofl:
You brought everything on yourself here Scartman. From your days of forced poo eating, to homosexual acts for drugs, if I were you I would be embarrassed to look into the mirror every morning.
Or maybe it is that you want to address all this issues but don't know the first step in being honest with yourself. Remember a guy named Jordan? The guy you continuously slandered both him and his parents? You wrote that crap about him how his parents feed him the poo when in fact it happened to you.
You use the term *mentall illness* alot and thats because that is what you are. *Mentally Ill*..
You wish you had a normal life. You wish you could turn back father time and make things right but you can't. History is written and 1/2 of your life has past and what stands here before us is some child abusing idiot that worked at a place which everyone here despises. You give a whole new meaning to the word *outcast*.
Go eat some more poo and chug your gin and sniff what ever it is you snort. We don't care about a child abusing former staff member that has no friends nor a life. You choose your path to walk in life, now you have to live it.
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Bite me hit the nail on the head with that.. Scartie and his seasonal threats. Tell me something Scartie, what exactly goes through your mind when you write all this same crap over and over again? Do you think you are scaring us? Are we suppose to say *Oh no! Scartie is threatening action against us because we do not agree with him*?
You know what your problem is Scartie and why you come here and act like such a prick? Because of all the hardships life has dealt out to you. Your wife left you because of your hard core boozing. Your Children keep a long distance relationship away from you most likely because when they see you they know Scartie for being a hard core boozing falling down the stairs asshole.
You accuse us for running people off this board?? Now thats what I call having a *NERVE*. Did it ever occur to you that you ran them off? Hell, the moderator was all over your case a year ago because you acted like such a cry-baby when people didn't see eye to eye with you, I guess you forgot all about that huh? Very convienent of you scartie. How about the other moderator elicsu? She had to put you in your place earlier this year.
You are a loser Scartman, Everything you post is fantasy and lies .Just like your little *I'm flying to Atlanta then driving down to Tampa with my cousin*, yet 24 hrs later here you are running your mouth off again and making up more lies.
I think I got you figured out now. When you say you are meeting with clients, you are actually meeting with a PO officer and/or a sponser. Because you were mandated in the past by court order to attend an AA meeting for your alcoholism which eventially dissolved your marriage and seperated you from your family. Hurts huh?
You also had a job that bearly paid the bills, matter of fact all your monies went to the booze that you drank everyday and your now ex-wife got tired of supporting a drunk, jobless husband. Good for her.
So you now after all these years stuffed all those feelings of rejectment and failure and come to this forum and make up lies and think you can paint a nice portrait of yourself and attempt to win over some friends. But there is a problem, its not working. There are a bunch of people here that despise you Scartie, they are laughing at you and cursing you out on a daily basis. Do you enjoy being hated?
Do you also think your old elan staff mind tricks will work on us? At least come up with some new kind of threat for gods sake! And to top off the cake for you: If anyone is being an annoying, harrassing, foul mouthed slandering little prick, it is YOU bar none.
You've made some pretty big mistakes Scartie, and also have painted yourself into a corner from the looks of it. :rofl:
You brought everything on yourself here Scartman. From your days of forced poo eating, to homosexual acts for drugs, if I were you I would be embarrassed to look into the mirror every morning.
Or maybe it is that you want to address all this issues but don't know the first step in being honest with yourself. Remember a guy named Jordan? The guy you continuously slandered both him and his parents? You wrote that crap about him how his parents feed him the poo when in fact it happened to you.
You use the term *mentall illness* alot and thats because that is what you are. *Mentally Ill*..
You wish you had a normal life. You wish you could turn back father time and make things right but you can't. History is written and 1/2 of your life has past and what stands here before us is some child abusing idiot that worked at a place which everyone here despises. You give a whole new meaning to the word *outcast*.
Go eat some more poo and chug your gin and sniff what ever it is you snort. We don't care about a child abusing former staff member that has no friends nor a life. You choose your path to walk in life, now you have to live it.
Ouch, would this be the kind of talk one would hear in a GM?
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Artie..... Are you suffering from the "King Baby" syndrome... You are kicking and screaming because things are not going your way. You are the one who is delusional and has a problem with accepting life on it's own terms.
Tell me this... What would you accomplish even if you won some kind of heresay slander case??? There would always be me or someone else sitting here ready to shoot holes in your dumbass everyday.
Also something that may be important for you to know is that there are these things known as "Dynamic IP's" which change everytime you log into your computer, which is what Comcast, Adelphia, AOL, and several others use. So as far as this "Super Sluth" shit you think you are... Well this shit don't fly with me... If you are so fucking smart, Who in the hell am I??? Where in the USA or Canada or Mexico am I really???
And as for the Statute of Limitations goes... Well I honestly did speak to a lawyer and he did say 2 years, that's why companies have to handle their disputes in this time frame... If you want to argue about that go see any lawyer and dont waste my fucking time.
Now to address your alcoholism problem...
In AA one of the readings says that they have rarely seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed their path. This my friend is something I know for definite that you are not doing. You claim to be sober, well if you are AA calls people like you a "Dry Drunk" you may as well start drinking again as it is a pitiful thing to get sober only to be a miserable prick.... Like "Reporter" said, it is probably just a stipulation of your probation.
Also in the AA readings it says that many of us have grave emotional and mental disorders, but they too can recover if they have the capacity to be honest..... This should be a ray of hope for you. But due to the fact that you can not be honest.... I would consider you a hopeless cause.
By the way you act when you come to this forum, I can understand why your poor wife left you. She done the right thing by taking the kids and getting as far away from you as she possibly could. I truely feel sorry for her for believing your lies, marrying your ugly ass, and having to put with the abuse you gave her whether it be emotional or physical. Again I really have empathy for her and wish that we could have helped her move even further from you so you can not infect her or your kids with your sickness.
Artie... Do yourself a favor.... Quit coming here, get sober, go to meetings, get a sponsor, work the steps, and become somebody different than you are.
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I am off to the lake
cheers
Well Scartie... I guess this "Big Pussy" has you pegged.... I see you are going to the lake so you can pass out from your over consumption of early morning alcohol. Hell I bet you don't even own a computer, you use the one in the public library. And again the job you speak of is a grope hole at a porno place where you keep your mouth pinned. (http://http://planetsmilies.net/7206.gif)
And Scartie just so we don't go through the day without it being said
FUCK YOU ARTIE[/color]
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I dont allow his delusions to stop me from posting the truth.
What, pray tell, is your truth Art?
:roll:
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Learn how to use the quote tags ya idiot.
:roll:
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Art- if you're above this stuff and think this forum is a cesspool, why not take the high road and ignore these posts from now on? Just a thought.
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You must be very angry to post things like that.Was it supposed to hurt my feelings,or make you feel all powerful?
Is that what it did for you when you berated and belittled people in Elan???
Again.. you dont know who I am or anything about me.
You have proven every thing I need to know about you by coming on this board being the throbbing prick that you are.
Real men dont play this game you are so into. So I have to know,exactly what do you get out of all this?
I get as much out of giving it back to you as you do trying to dish it out.... Let's just say I am the voices of those in Elan who can't speak for themselves here.
Anyone who knows me even a little bit knows I dont drink.Anyone who knows me knows that I am a pretty good guy (not without faults).
Well Artie... You sure do act like a miserable drunk. When you come here you only spew negativity. Not once have I seen you share a thread of decency. You always have something to say about multiple people. and then you have a hard time admiting your faults..... I take it that the problems in life is everybody elses fault.
where do you fit into this? You arent even from Elan? Is there some satisfaction you achieve by being an asshole to someone?
Again I am the voice of many people who can not confront you. You may as well call me "Legend." The satisfaction I will receive is when you make ammends for the way you were and are. I am only here to help you help yourself.
I dont recall picking a fight with you. I dont even care to banter with you,but you post all this garbage about me every day.
I got tired of seeing you spooge out your diseased rants about other people. I had hopes you would stop, however you don't know when to quit so that's where I came in. And I will remain here until the end of time.
All I have seen you do thus far is further others opinions about your illness.
You are the one who constantly shares about mental illness. You do know that coming here and getting into conflicts with everyone is a very strong sign of mental illness and there are good doctors that can help you help yourself.
You are one fucked up dude.
You only think I am fucked up because I have that little extra edge that you can't break.
Suicide IS the answer..No really .. I insist
Is suicide something you would wish on others. You are still into hurting people after all these years. Would you really want a wife to be a widow, a child to be without a father. Hell Artie... YOU are reall a fucked up dude as you so put it.
Fuck its hot out here !
Thinks it's hot here...... Wait till you arrive in hell :flame:
By the way I will be waiting there for you as well.
(http://http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y135/mohawks_r_hot/sacrificed.gif)
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Art- if you're above this stuff and think this forum is a cesspool, why not take the high road and ignore these posts from now on? Just a thought.
Makes good sense
You have been around a long time. You know what the truth is.
Have a great day
And he probably thinks you are an idiot too scartie.
Scartie comes here to bait and provoke, the moderator addressed this issue awhile back with Scartie and even gave him a warning to knock it off.
Tsk Tsk Tsk Scartie. You should not have suggested such a bold statement to BP that he should commit suicide, you have really painted yourself into a corner on that libel comment.
Oh and for the record, statue of limiations are 1 year from the date of publication Mr. Pretend-to-be-a-Lawyer. You Scartie on the other hand claim you are a victim of horrid things said about you. Well perhaps one day when you look back at all this *Sober* if thats even remotely possibly, you will ask yourself " What was I thinking?".
If your goal is to ultimately have your local state care for you because you cannot hack it in the real world, you already have 1 foot in the door. BP if he wants already has the power to make that happen for you. There is also others that can assist you into a structured world for you to be taken care of as well. I feel you are desperately crying out for attention and praying that someone will take you away. You are definatley in a poisition where you are headed in that direction.
Your entire track record here at this forum is that of a troll. You have been provoking and baiting this forum for a long time now and consquences for doing so are unavoidable at this point. You better pray to your God that the people you have abused have pitty and mercy on you, other wise you are a fucked!
*I have been a victim of horrid things said about me*
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
You have some serious mental issues Scartie.
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Anyone who knows me even a little bit knows I dont drink.
Are you claiming to be a recovered alcolholic...... Oh that's right alcoholics go to meetings and you claim that you don't go to meetings.....hmmmm
You claimed to have used drugs and drank for years and quit... Tell me this, how did you get and stay sober???? Did you just quit on your own and become this miserable dry drunk??? Or did you go to meetings and get a sponsor and work the 12 steps like a good little drunk???
And if you done the last, have you told your sponsor about coming here and let him read your post....Probably not because he would ream you a new ass.
Quit hanging at the grope hole with your face pinned against it (http://http://planetsmilies.net/7206.gif)
(http://http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l287/daisiekitty/12steps.jpg)
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Anyone who knows me even a little bit knows I dont drink.
Are you claiming to be a recovered alcolholic...... Oh that's right alcoholics go to meetings and you claim that you don't go to meetings.....hmmmm
You claimed to have used drugs and drank for years and quit... Tell me this, how did you get and stay sober???? Did you just quit on your own and become this miserable dry drunk??? Or did you go to meetings and get a sponsor and work the 12 steps like a good little drunk???
And if you done the last, have you told your sponsor about coming here and let him read your post....Probably not because he would ream you a new ass.
Quit hanging at the grope hole with your face pinned against it (http://http://planetsmilies.net/7206.gif)
(http://http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l287/daisiekitty/12steps.jpg)
:tup: ::rocker:: ::roflmao:: ::roflmao::
Oh and Scartie: ::fuckoff:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::both:: ::fuckoff::
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grope hole
::roflmao:: ::bwahaha::
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Bp, I was wondering why do you think Scartie in his date profile has a huge shirt being held up in front of him?
I'm thinking he is trying to hide his beer gut no?
Lucky for you , you never had to experience the previous photo of Scartie when he had no shirt on. It was very grotesque.
And what about that brillo-style hair do Scartie has going on?
Scartman, can you scrub pots clean with that hair?
Brillo hair, enormous beer gut, delusional Scartie seeks a female version of himself, or male! To pretend and make up lies and help Scartie troll the elan forum and abuse former residents.
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Scartie, did you wake up in a pool of vomit today? You're probably out at your local watering hole getting all liquored up now, probably also having fantasys about making it with the bar maid but she doesn't even notice your ugly ass. Tomorrow you'll wake up in yet another pool of vomit from heavy drinking and the vomit will dry up on that brillo hair do of yours, making you smell like a 2 week old full garabage can.
So go ahead and grab a bottle or two and conjur up another fantasy delusion of yours and pretend away. Go play with your two buddies at the lake and eat them too,, I know you do.
Your high light for tonight will be pissing in a phone booth as you stumble on home from your local watering hole. Drunk, confused, broke, and stupid. Then you most likely will turn into a drunk peeping Tom and hopefully some childs father will catch you and give you a beating for being a pervert.
Fuckin' lowlife loser who abused teens that couldn't fight back. Shame on you drunkard!
Fat boy
Brillo hair
Can't get a date
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Go take your fat ass and put yourself on your canoe and cast off and get lost at sea. Snack on some more 100lb doggie doody and take another bottle and drown your sorrows.
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How many times over the years have you posted that Art? Come up with something new or drop it. It's really getting old.
God Grand Artie the Smarts
to pull his head out of his ass
The guts to follow through
And the weight loss to move
his fat ass away from the computer.
GET TO YOUR MEETING ART.
you stole my username you must die!
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the question is
how long will you allow the corruption of your site to overide the purpose.
You are right.. I answer the trolls.but whether I answer or not.they still post what they post. What good could possibly come from this?
please tell us where these postings fit into your idea of exposing treatment centers for abusing children. show me where these postings ad credibility to your cause.
It did not start like this,but what its become is certainly counter-productive to what I thought you were trying to accomplish.
tthey continue to make a fool out of you and your cause. If you but to blame me to escape responsibility,so be it. but the responsibility lies squarely on your shoulders for allowing this content
freedom of speech my ass
Art, you say this as if you took no part in it (it takes two to tango.)
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the question is
how long will you allow the corruption of your site to overide the purpose.
You are right.. I answer the trolls.but whether I answer or not.they still post what they post. What good could possibly come from this?
please tell us where these postings fit into your idea of exposing treatment centers for abusing children. show me where these postings ad credibility to your cause.
It did not start like this,but what its become is certainly counter-productive to what I thought you were trying to accomplish.
tthey continue to make a fool out of you and your cause. If you but to blame me to escape responsibility,so be it. but the responsibility lies squarely on your shoulders for allowing this content
freedom of speech my ass
Hey Arthur Warshawsky.... Just remember that you freely choose to come here. We did not ask you to come to this forum, we do not force you to come here. You come here of your own free will.
If I walked down a street where I knew I was going to get beat up everytime I walked down it, I guess I would quit going down that street. But for some reason you keep going down it.
You claim you enjoy coming here and get picked on, however here you are crying. I don't understand. What kind of person is into abusing themself daily???
I personally have told you as well as many other not to go away mad, "JUST GO AWAY," but still you have remained here glutting for punishment.
Are there no other forums that you can go troll that you might be welcome at??? Just as a courtesy wake up call, Arthur Warshawsky does not own "Fornits" nor will he ever.
Now with all this being said.... Go Fuck Yourself "Scartie"[/color]
(http://http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d93/Row-shell/middle-finger.jpg)
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the question is
how long will you allow the corruption of your site to overide the purpose.
You are right.. I answer the trolls.but whether I answer or not.they still post what they post. What good could possibly come from this?
please tell us where these postings fit into your idea of exposing treatment centers for abusing children. show me where these postings ad credibility to your cause.
It did not start like this,but what its become is certainly counter-productive to what I thought you were trying to accomplish.
tthey continue to make a fool out of you and your cause. If you but to blame me to escape responsibility,so be it. but the responsibility lies squarely on your shoulders for allowing this content
freedom of speech my ass
Art, you say this as if you took no part in it (it takes two to tango.)
I concur... It would appear that everyone is suffering from their personal editions of Elan dysfunction?
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If the personal attacks stop,the responses to them will also.
its a pretty simple solution.
If you go away the personal attacks will stop and so will the responses. It's a pretty simple solution.
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If the personal attacks stop,the responses to them will also.
its a pretty simple solution.
If you go away the personal attacks will stop and so will the responses. It's a pretty simple solution.
Ditto on that!
The only reason why there are so many arguments going back and forth is becuase of YOU Scartie provoking everyone. Leave for good and the fights will stop. Or if there is some miracle that you can control yourself and refrain from being a trolling fight provoker, you are more then welcome to post amongst us. But I know that won't happen in this decade, it's been tried many of times in the past and you always wind up being Scartie again.
You carry on about some cause and purpose for this forum, the only cause I see is provoking and baiting performed by you. You clearly are confusing to say the least. You say you are not one of them (Elan abusing staff) but yet you object to people when negative things are siad about your former comrades? WHADFUXUP?
If you really mean it by saying you object to the abuse that went on @ Elan then why in the hell are you objecting to everyone that post here?
And please do me and everyone else that post here a favor. Don't bother responding to this post unless you can actually be mature enough about it. As you can see I am not attacking you in this post, just trying to ask you a simple question.
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As far as the "people who are still here" and all of that, I think you make things out to be a bit worse than they actually are...
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Mmmm. I'm not sure whether I should take "sick and perverted" as something to defend myself over, or as a compliment... ::hehehmm::
Art, it doesn't happen overnight. Nothing ever does. Let it go and learn to just step aside when the barbs fly. Make yourself busy on threads with somewhat less scatological content. In time, if you truly have something to say, people will come around.
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If the personal attacks stop,the responses to them will also.
its a pretty simple solution.
If you go away the personal attacks will stop and so will the responses. It's a pretty simple solution.
Damn.... After days of no coming in and pointing fingers at people, I thought that Artie had decided to chill out and be a human.
It only goes to show you can take a snake and put a fur coat on it and you still have a damned snake.
By the way.... "Fuck You Artie"[/color]
PS
Go on and break out you "Village People" cassettes and dance for the 100lb doggie
(http://http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb248/dietje-bucket/artiesten/thsmiley_villagepeople.gif)
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d93/R ... finger.jpg (http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d93/Row-shell/middle-finger.jpg)
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Mo insults. Now you calling me a fru-fru!
ah, well... I guess we're all damaged material here at some point...
...Its so not important except to place the responsibility for the content where it belongs.
Then let it lie right there. End of story. Surely you have bigger and better fish to fry? :wink:
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nobody likes you art, so why hang around?
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nobody likes you art, so why hang around?
I can answer that for you. Because he has no friends in life. He's a
L-O-S-E-R....
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Who's Dave?
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Who's Dave?
Dave's not here.....
(http://http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h16/tinarowley/Comments%20For%20Myspace/thss3.jpg)