Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Carey on May 21, 2003, 01:24:00 PM
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Dundee is in the news again.
The story can be found at:
http://www.ticotimes.net/daily.htm#story_one (http://www.ticotimes.net/daily.htm#story_one)
PANI Issues Report Amid Chaos at Dundee Ranch
By Tim Rogers
trogers@ticotimes.net
More than a dozen youths at Dundee Ranch Academy in the Pacific-slope town of Orotina reportedly escaped yesterday, during a visit to the controversial U.S.-run behavior-modification facility by officials from the Judicial Investigative Police (OIJ), and the Ministries of Health, Education, the Child Welfare Agency (PANI) and the Alcohol and Drug Institute.
Police and staff were reportedly still searching for the runaways yesterday afternoon. Dundee Ranch declined comment.
Located on the remote grounds of a former hotel by the same name, Dundee is a year-and-a-half-old program for troubled teens, mostly from the U.S. (TT, Oct. 25, 2002).
Critics of the program argue that the academy's "tough-love" tactics -- including the use of physical restraint and sentencing disobedient teens to solitary confinement -- border on inhumane treatment and make the academy more like a boot camp than a boarding school. Academy owner Narvin Lichfield, however, defends his program as a last resort for teens with serious behavior or drug problems (TT, Jan. 17; March 14).
After four months of investigating, the PANI yesterday issued its long-awaited report on Dundee Ranch, instructing the facility that it has 30 days to implement 15 in the way it operates.
The PANI also filed a criminal complaint against Dundee Ranch with the Prosecutor's Office, requesting a judicial investigation of the academy. If the needed changes are not implemented in a month's time, the academy could be issued a judicial order to close, according to PANI's acting director, Ileana Ballard.
Don't miss Friday's TT print edition for complete story
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Yeeee haw!
I hope those kids make it to safe shelter before the police and culties can catch them. If they're serious about the investigation (and it looks asif they are) they'll protect those kids at all costs.
We are a one party country. Half of them call themselves Democrats and the other half call themselves Republicans. All the good ideas come from the Libertarians.
--Hugh Downs
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How in the hell could Dundee still even be open??? WWASP's track record should be enough to shut it down.
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Heh I hope those kids make it to the US consulate or at least to safety inside Mexico somewhere. At least in Mexico a person who is careful and does not want to be found can certainly manage it.
How many kids are at Dundee? Interesting that they got out during the inspection, maybe the cops saw what was going on there and decided to let some of the kids escape.
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There is more to the story than the fact that the kids have run away. I have been given more information from an inside source, however I can not repeat it until it has been confirmed. (I don't want to make a statement that I myself do not have proof of.)
There are approximately 200 hundred kids at the Dundee facility in Costa Rica.
"maybe the cops saw what was going on there and decided to let some of the kids escape." Facekahn, you could be on to something with that thought.
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21 May 2003
Casa Alianza Satisfied with Dundee Ranch Search after Eight Months of
Complaints
San Jose, Costa Rica
Eight months of complaints finally gave way on Tuesday, May 20th, to
the search of the Dundee Ranch Academy by a judge, a public
prosecutor, and two agents of the Judiciary Police (OIJ). The
Academy is located in the western part of Costa Rica, in La Ceiba
de Cascajal de Orotina.
Yesterday, a group of children abandoned the center, taking
advantage of the intervention of the authorities.
The proceedings are part of an official investigation of the institution,
which began after authorities received complaints from Susan Flowers,
the mother of one of the children, regarding human rights violations.
According to the Dundee Ranch website, its personnel are dedicated
to helping children with behavioral problems.
Casa Alianza has received a series of complaints from various parents,
who feared for the physical and emotional integrity of their children,
who were held there. Casa Alianza's Legal Support Office in turn
informed the Director of the National Children's Welfare Organization
(PANI in Spanish), Rosalía Gil, several weeks ago.
"We want to congratulate the Public Prosecutor for his courage,
because since the newspaper The Tico Times completed an investigation
about the place eight months ago, no one has done anything," stated
Bruce Harris, Regional Director of Casa Alianza, an organization that
defends children's rights.
Harris recently requested a further investigation of the case before the
Costa Rican Constitutional Court on behalf of a 14 year-old girl from the
United States, who was taken to the Dundee Ranch against her will. In
letters to her mother, the girl wrote:
"Please, whatever, take me out of here, please."
Unfortunately, the Magistrates rejected the case and asked that it be
transferred to the Family Judge. Now the Public Minister will determine
if a crime occurred behind the walls of the ranch.
"To enclose children in tiny rooms on their knees or stomachs for hours
is cruel and inhumane treatment and needs to be investigated by the
authorities," added Harris.
Representatives of the PANI and the Health Minister accompanied the
judicial personnel during the search. A day prior, members of the Office
of Migration and Foreigners completed an inspection of the ranch and
found that 100 of the 193 children did not have appropriate migration
papers.
For more information, please contact Bruce Harris at +506-253-5439
or via email at http://www.ticotimes.net/archive/ (http://www.ticotimes.net/archive/) and use search word "Dundee".
The Dundee Ranch's web site is http://www.dundeeranch.org (http://www.dundeeranch.org)
or http://www.academydundee.org/staff.htm (http://www.academydundee.org/staff.htm)
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An indeterminate number of youth flee Academy
Youth abuse is confirmed
The attorney?s office of Atenas raids the Academy
Over 200 U.S. youth with behavioral problems left the troubled Academy yesterday after national authorities in Orotina intervened. An indeterminate number of youth rushed to leave the Academy after being informed of their rights.
At approximately 9:30 PM last night, the police searched the surrounding area of Orotina with the purpose of finding the location of several youth
that were still missing.
An investigation conducted by PANI confirmed the alleged physical and psychological abuse against many under-aged youth interned at the Dundee Ranch Academy in Cascajal de la Ceiba de Orotina.
This allegation, along with 10 other allegations against fundamental rights was denounced on Monday by PANI to the attorney?s office of Atenas. The officers of the ranch were ordered to immediately cease any violations or threats against 200 or 193 interns at the Academy. (See images)
Fernando Vargas, the attorney for Orotina, 2 investigators from OIJ, and one judge from Alajuela searched the premises of the Academy yesterday afternoon. These individuals were accompanied by employees of PANI - Patronato Nacional de la Infancia (child protection agency) and the Ministry of Health.
Vargas explained yesterday that the search was based on allegations by Susan Flowers, mother of Nicole H. Deniken, an intern of the Dundee Ranch, and allegations from PANI. The search was conducted to enquire about the violations of the rights of the minors such as violations of liberty and coercion.
The joint search (raid) by judicial powers, PANI, and the Health ministry fueled the rushed exit of many youth who felt the support from the law enforcement agencies. Many youth left the Academy barefoot.
An indeterminate number of youth, some between the ages of 15 and 30, entered into official vehicles, while others run through the streets and on through the countryside. Last night, many of the youth returned to the Academy.
Due to this incident, members of the Police asked the attorney general as to the course of action to follow. The attorney general explained that they
could not take anybody by force or make the youth enter into the official vehicles. The youth could go into the custody of PANI and the youth were to
have a choice as to where to go, the authorities could not force the youth into making any decisions.
Last night, PANI and the attorney general took the custody of 6 minors.
Aid from the U.S. Embassy Peter Brennan, chief of public relations for the U.S. Embassy informed
yesterday afternoon to the Al Dia that the youth that left the Academy could call the telephone number 220-3939. The hotline will provide help 24 hours a day. The youth can also contact the consulate or other personnel.
Brennan explained yesterday that the consulate knew of the actions of the Costa Rican authorities but not of the abandonment of some of the youth.
Ana Teresa Leon manager of PANI stated last night that there was a measure taken to ensure the protection for the youth from the Academy, the ages for the youth are between 15 and 19 years old. The officials at the Academy have 30 days to rectify the situation.
If within the 30 days, the Academy does not meet the Costa Rican regulations and the requirements from PANI, the Education Ministry, the Ministry of
Health, and international norms for human rights, the Academy could face being shut down.
There were attempts to talk with Narvin Lichfield, a U.S. citizen and the owner of the Academy when he arrived on a moments notice to a meeting in the
Health Centre of Orotina attended by authorities from the Ministry of Health and PANI. Narvin Litchfield declined to make any comments or talk to this media. He carried plans and documents, as possible documentation in his defense.
Dazed and Confused Youth that fled the Academy yesterday looked horrified and appeared terrified to look back. The youth were vigilant and on the lookout for people following them to make them return to the life that they had been living.
Witnesses of a stampede Nowhere to go Justin, Albert, Jen, Matt, Todd, Tyler. Students at the Dundee Ranch Academy left yesterday at 4:20 PM with the hope of being able to talk to their parents and to return to their respective homes. Few were able to achieve their goals.
Those who witnessed the stampede of students could hardly believe the events that happened.
I was surrounded by law enforcement officers, and even the law enforcement officers were perplexed at the stressful images. They were trying to
understand why many youth fled from the Academy.
At approximately 1:00 PM, the attorney general raided and searched the premises of the Dundee Ranch in an intense investigation that tries to
determine if there were human rights violations against the minors. The investigation also looks to determine charges against privacy and liberty.
After a bad interpretation of the explanations by the attorney general of Orotina, Fernando Vargas tried to explain to the youth the rights that they
had. Many youth fled the inside of the Academy into the streets.
The rumor quickly spread to the entrance of the Academy. Keysey, a youth who was in the higher levels of the program and was about to finish the
program the next month asked us if we had seen some of his friends. The alarm sounded that the first youth fled the premises.
Out of many youths whom I spoke with, keysey was in the small minority who expressed any interest in returning to such a place.
Following Keysey, Justin and Albert were also looking for friends who had fled the place. They did not want to remain in the Academy but they did not want to face the dangers found in the streets of Orotina or the punishments that many youth faced in the past at the Academy if they were found and taken back to the Academy.
Jen stated that she had some food in her pocket and wanted to see her dad. Jen was one of the first 3 youth who fled the place. 16 year old Jen, a native of South Carolina was nervous about her future and did not want to return to the Academy. Later, Jen was aided by PANI and was taken to a shelter run by PANI. Jen asked the question if at the shelter she would be allowed to talk to her parents and that if she had to endure physical abuse and hits. Along with Jen, Matthew, Todd, and two other unidentified youths left.
?This is a cage and I cannot stay in this place? stated Todd while on our surroundings tens of youth left the Academy. The youth were encouraged by the staff at the Ranch to go into the cars of PANI and the law enforcement agencies.
It is evident that authorities did not expect certain reactions from the youth. Many students feared leaving Dundee Ranch because they feared any reprisals from inside the Academy The scene of youth leaving the premises did not slow down and the personnel from the Academy was divided. Some tired to calm the youth while others encouraged the youth to take to the streets. Many youth were disoriented and confused with the events and fled barefoot through the large rocky
street without any apparent direction.
Findings
This is only an extract of the arguments from the regional office of PANI in Alajuela to denounce the violation if rights to the office of the attorney in Atenas.
The physical premises at the Academy do not meet the conditions to meet the basic needs of the minors. The premises do not have proper ventilation, proper lighting, and the premises do not have any privacy.
The nutrition levels are lacking and are not enough to meet the requirements of the youth. The youth allege that they only received limited quantities of food, a menu that was not similar to their previous diets, and that the food hygiene was not very sanitary.
There is a restriction placed on the youth to communicate with family or other close relatives. By limiting the contact with parents, there is a
creation of distance between the youth and their respective families.
It is noted that the Academy lacks properly trained personnel to take care of and safeguard the rights of the population.
The immigration issues with many of the youth are not clearly defined. Many youth do not even know where they are located.
There are punishments that fit the definitions of physical abuse and psychological abuse. These types of abuse are strictly prohibited under Costa Rican law.
Some of the types of abuse include isolation and physical restrictions.
The Academy is overpopulated, the place houses more than 200 youth and many youth sleep on the floor. The sleeping facilities are not convenient, are uncomfortable, and there is little hygiene in the bathrooms.
Source:
Resolution ratified yesterday, Tuesday at 2:30 PM in the Academy Dundee Ranch in Orotina
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Viva Costa Rica. I hope the penalties for running that place are swift and involve a rope. Too much to hope for I am sure, since Costa Rica is supposedly very rights oriented.
Does Costa Rica have an extradition treaty with the US cause we all know Lichfield will run if it looks like he will be prosecuted?
I hope this snaps those parents out of their WWASPie funk and they bring the kids home.
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Now That's progress! How many of us used to daydream about something like this? If Litchfield has half a brain, and I'm not at all certain that that's the case, he'll leave the area for his own safety. How many of those kids are hanging around the neighborhood trying to figure out what to do next? And if you and half a dozen friends were in their shoes (or bare feet) and happened to see that SOB getting out of his car or something, what would you do?
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Looks like one WWASP prison down, 10 to go. ::armed::
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so why are kids still at Dundee?
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What is the status of Su Flower's daughter? God Bless her!!
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does anyone have a link to this Al Dia News website?
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Carey,
With all the effort you have put into shutting down the WWASP run shools, have you sought out alternative treatment for kids were severe drug and discipline problems? I have a brother at one of the schools and EVEN if the allegations toward the school are true, Id rather see him there than home. Considering the type of kids that attend these schools, I would take their statements with a grain of salt. Living a life with drugs, Im sure that they would say anything to convince their parents to take them home. Either way, no situation is ideal, and no no one should be treated inhumanly but some measure need to be taken when leaders and administrators are faced with the actions of TOUGH kids. I would rather see my little brother learn the hard way in a school like Dundee Ranch than end up dead or on the streets addicted to drugs. The alternatives to these schools are limited. Either, these kids can return home to and envirnoment where they have virtually no chance of a successful life or prison. No school or situation is ideal when the problems that these kids have are involved. Ideally, I would like to see my brother at home, drugfree, and achieving academic goals. Realistically this can't happen. I just think that instead of focusing all your energy in shutting down THE LAST RESORT for these parents you should focus your attention on your own children that you have "liberated". It seems to me that you have enough problems of your own to be consuming yourself with the problems of others. I hope that you are proud of your involvement in shutting down Dundee Ranch and endind=g the possibitilty of recovery these troubled kids had!
An Angry Sister! :flame:
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Under no circumstances should anyone support a company that specializes in the treatment that these kids, no matter how incorrigible, receive on a daily basis in either this or some foreign country. In the US, there are many counselors, psychiatrists, doctors and support for troubled teens and young adults that do NOT make a business out of abusing and torturing them. Dundee Ranch is NOT the last resort, or any resort period! By sending him there, it was quite simply a terrible choice to make.
Should you require assistance finding actual help here in this country, let me know, I would be glad to provide you with some information.
Sincerely,
MG8 :smokin:
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Do you have someone with these problems and addictions in your home???
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Angry Sister,
It sounds like you buy into the WWASP teaching "there is no right or wrong, there is only what works and what doesn't work." That is the lesson that my boys learned at Dundee. However, they now realize that is terrile message to be instilling in the kids in the "programs."
I am sorry that your brother has problems, and I admit I don't have all the answers, but I do know right from wrong and no matter how you slice it abuse is wrong.
First, you can't say that your brother would be dead if he were not in the program. You can not tell what the future holds. Second, your brother would recieve more services that would be of value to him if he were in juvinile detention than from what he has recieved at Dundee. Even Litchfield stated "all we guarantee is supervision."
Have you been there, to Dundee? I have. It is not what you think it is. Dundee is closing because of what I have seen and what the officials investigating it have seen. Does that not tell you something?
I am sorry if you are angry, but you need to be angry with Narvin Litchfield, he is the one who has decieved you and your parents and many others like you.
Carey
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Carey,
No I have never seen the facility at Dundee Ranch. My brother wasnt taken there in the middle of the night but actually just the contrary. MY father took him there willingly and he chose to stay. Every inch of the facility was checked out while he was there. He knew he wasnt checking him into the Ritz Carlton. It is policy to hold an investigation if a complaint is made. The same way there are investigated in our military and schools each day.
You are correct, I do not know what the future holds. What I do know is that Im a college student at a University with 44,000 students and Ive seen plently of people including friends go down the path with drugs. When I mean dead, It applies to everything in life. People like that become dead to the world. They have no abition for anything but drugs or a concern for their future. OF course there are programs that work or dont work. How do you figure that there is an inbetween. Either they abandon the lifesyle they had or they continue it. I dont know who you are kidding by saying that our juvinelle system has more to benefit troubled kids. Our government provides minimal services for rehabilitation. If juvinelle detention was successful there wouldnt be so many habitual offenders in our society.
The sister
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Dear Angry Sister,
Let me give you a little insight from two points of view that I don't think you have to draw on.
First, I'm a mother. I have a 19yo daughter who scared the living hell out of us while she was going through her throws growing up. Out of respect for her and because you'd probably take it the wrong way, I won't go into a lot of detail here. Suffice it to say that, when Officer Friendly came to my door and told me that the only way he could 'help' her was if I filed criminal charges against her, I finally understood--really, completely, emotionally--why my parents had done what they had done to me and my older brothers and sister all those years ago. It was no longer just an accademic question, I didn't just accept and agree to let it go. I was able to truely forgive my dad.
But I knew better than to make the same mistake because I had been on the receiving end of that kind of 'benevolence' myself. And I know in my heart that Dad was looking on from wherever it is that affectionate ghosts hang out and breathing a sigh of relief.
The biggest difference between a kid who might be making self destructive decisions and one in a WWASP program is that the first kid can walk away and change their ways the minute they decide they're not having fun any more. If you think your little brother's odds of survival, or even of living out his life in better mental and emotional shape than a Viet Nam veteran, are better with than without WWASP, you're mistaken. Sorry, you just are.
Again, I understand your impulse to try anything at all to help a kid who's scaring the hell out of you. I know. I used to think it was very much like watching my toddler cheerfully playing on a six lane highway and running, usually right into the worst trouble, every time I tried to reach out and pull her in.
But you must, if you really love your brother, consider the first precept of the Hypocratic Oath; First, do no harm. No matter how bad you may think it is to do nothing but keep your door and your heart open to him, WWASP is worse. Kids die there. Kids commit suicide there. Most of those who make it out alive are not at all OK; not for a very long time if ever.
Oh, if you're wondering how my daughter's doing, she's a whole lot better off than I was at her age after 2 years of 'help' from another Synanon based TOUGHLOVE outfit. Unlike me 20 years ago, she knows better and is lucid and sane enough NOT to get pregnant and try to marry the first psycho who comes along. Unlike me, she doesn't have panic attacks and night terrors--so I'm sure it's easier for her to hold a job.
Like me, I'm sure she'll figure out the rest all in good time. And she's got family who she can trust should she ever decide she she needs or wants to come for an extended vacation and take a load off for awhile, no strings attached.
People everywhere enjoy believing things that they know are not true. It spares them the ordeal of thinking for themselves and taking responsibility for what they know.
Anonymity Anonymous (http://fornits.com/anonanon)
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Dear Sister...you are obviously young, fresh with the absolute authority that what you say is absolutely right. Give it a little time (years) and you may come to realize that what you "know" may not be right. You cannot know your brother would die if not in Dundee. You cannot know that he will learn that drugs are dangerous and to be avoided, even if he needs to forget the awful experiences at Dundee after he is released. You cannot know that this was his last resort, that no other alternative except this humiliating lifestyle would save him.
I have a relative in another WWASP facility. This person was not in the dire straights you seem to think your brother was in. In fact, the "problems" I, as an older/wiser/experienced parent and adult saw were more a fact of being a teen and experimenting with independence. Smoking pot a few times, smart-mouthing a parent, and failing algebra is no excuse for removing a person from society, all personal contact with friends, extended family, even fellow inmates, newspapers, schooling, physical outdoor activity, food necessary for growing bodies, clothes that help identify the emerging adult personality, the dignity of being allowed to have an independent thought, or having the love of a parent who can talk to you as you try to sort out what you eventually want to be. You think this Last Resort is great for your brother, who went off the deep end? Well, Dear Sister, is it also there to warehouse and demoralize your average teen whose parents have more money than brains and wouldn't recognize a correct parenting technique if it smacked them in the head?
The majority of children in these facilities are like that, but are suffering the severe treatment that you feel is the Last Resort measures saving your brother. NOBODY deserves this. WWASP has a slogan banner they put up in seminars: "Nothing Can Change When You're Comfortable". Well, that's 100% wrong. Change doesn't happen then; discomfort only makes the problem dive deeper. Watch out for when it surfaces!
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Sister, do you really believe that drugs are that big a problem? Based on some of your friends who are having trouble? Well you have to balance that out with all of what you see and hear. Does that make sense? Well look around you. Ever since they started keeping track in the early 70's, illicit drug use rates among high school and college age kids has remaind about the same. About half of all high school kids and a little more than half of college kids use illicit drugs at some point.
Most of us, the vast majority, go on to live normal, productive and satisfactory lives. This includes your doctor and medical staff, your professors and faculty, the people who own and operate the businesses and government services you patronize every day... If you're in a room or elevator with 6 other people, usually 2 or 3 of them have used illicit drugs at some point (you?). Are half or more of the people you see every day skidrow junkies? Do anywhere near 1/10th of the people you went to high school with fit that description?
Our survival instinct is so much stronger than you're thinking about right now. Almost everyone grows up, learns responsibility and gives up habits that get in the way of their goals. Beating them up and brainwhashing them doesn't help them through the process. It just makes it more difficult and makes certain sadistic lunatics very wealthy and powerful.
You should go down and take in the atmosphere then do the math. 200 kids * 2 years * $30k = $12,000,000 income. Expenses include a run down, former hotel; no trained staff, medical, educational or psyche; no decent food or clothing; no air conditioning; no janitors or cooks or lawn crews (your brother is providing those services) and they get extra for chasing down and beating him if he tries to run.
Believe me, the authorities in Costa Rica are NOT known for medeling in the private affairs of businesses or individuals in that country. If they decided it was apropriate to intervene, it's not like a bogus CYS call in the States. They don't mess around with that sort of thing. They go after serious criminals only.
Narvin Lichfield is in some deep stuff! And I like to think that he's getting the oportunity to reacquaint himself with a few of his former 'students' who may have been able to run away, but couldn't get back home without their Visas, pasports or any sane family back here.
God grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked anyway, the good fortune to run into the ones I do, and the eyesight to tell the difference.
Anonymity Anonymous (http://fornits.com/anonanon)
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Sister, please listen to Antigen. She knows what she is talking about. Not all teens sent to a WWASP facility are in serious trouble. One I read about just wasn't religious enough for his fundamentalist parents. One just was talking back to his parents. My ex-friend's daughter just was engaging in sex and not doing well in school. Well she hadn't done well in school since she entered kindergarten. I can't understand how the parents were so surprised. She wasn't intellectually slow, just that school didn't interest her. As a former teacher and a lover of school, I can't understand this, but I know not everyone needs a college education. As for sex, her older brother and two older sisters engaged in premarital sex too. She was the one who was kicked in the teeth and roundly punished!She did need a good talking to about how to avoid pregnancy and STDs, and how to avoid being exploited by males.
Sister, I mention the above because I want you to understand many are sent to WWASP prisons for frivolous reasons. There are also many, (some have written on the internet) who had sons and daughters with very serious problems with substance abuse and/or felonies. And their kids turned themselves around all by themselves, and perhaps, with the knowledge that their loving parents would be there to help them.
The only time I MIGHT consider a WWASP facility is if my minor child was convicted of a felony,and the stupid state in which we lived was going to incarcerate him in an adult prison! One kid who testified at the Virginia trial was in that situation.
Your parents are spending a bundle on your brother's stay at Dundee. Perhaps it would have been better spent seeking psychiatric help. Maybe he would have been the 1% who would have ODed or would have become a vegetable from drug use. If that was his destiny, Dundee probably won"t help. Not everyone comes out of a WWASP "school" cured! What makes WWASP such a "success" is that kids have a way of growing up all by themselves. WWASP takes the credit for something that would have happened anyway.
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"I would like to see my brother at home, drugfree, and achieving academic goals. Realistically this can't happen"
Please change your attitude about your brother. That would help him more than you could ever imagine. If he continues to be told by those he loves that he is a failure then you are making it that much harder for him to be anything but. He needs you and your family to believe in him. Give him what he needs.
He has been through a lot. I don't know how long he was at Dundee but I know it does not take long for the psychological and physical abuse to begin.
"It seems to me that you have enough problems of your own to be consuming yourself with the problems of others"
Others will always be important to me. It hurts me terribly to think there are still kids in these programs who are being abused. I can't turn my back on them. Until all of these children are out of these abusive programs, I will continue to fight. This has also helped my boys more than you will ever know. They have peace knowing that Dundee has been closed. They have even a greater sense of peace knowing that Litchfield is going to be held accountable.
Angry sister, I hope you have opened your heart and your ears to what we are trying to help you understand.
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Yes I really believe that drugs are THAT big of a problem in our society. I you are wrong statistically on population drug use since the 70s. In all the criminology, psychology, and law classes I have taken at the university, they have all gone into great detail showing that drug use has steadily increased in our society. In addition, to increased number or users they are used more often and are about 5 times stronger than those used in the 70s. Yes it is a big problem, anyone who would drugs arent, is either uninformed, uneducated or strictly naive when it comes to drugs. Its a harsh reality when its someone you love.
If our survival insticts as humans are so much stronger than I believe why has the war on drugs been ever increasing. Why does our government spend billions on the drug war, and billions on rehabiliation centers, which by the way have a small percentage of succesful results. Most addicts have relapsed within 3 years of a rehab center. People with a drug addiction at a young age have an 80% chance of having the same problem and worse as an adult. Statistically that doesnt give my brother or any other troubled kid that much of a chance.
As far as giving my brother the love that he deserves. I think that awarness andunderstanding of his problem is the most love and support I can do for him. I support him with all my heart and would have done anything to help him quit. He has never been deprived of a loving and caring family. We are only 3 years apart and I was raised in the same family under the same conditions that he was. It is strictly a matter of character and responsibility that made us chose different paths in life. My parents didnt just send him to Dundee Ranch to get rid of him. After all other sources were exausted, changing schools and therapy along with other alternatives there his problem continued to get worse.
Some kids may not need a facility like the WWASP programs, and that is each childs parents decision to send them. It is their child and their conscience that they have to live with. I do not agree with demoralizing people but how sure are we that these accusations are true. Most of these allegations come from students that were there for a short period of time and were unable to finish the program. In the same light, I would probably of said the same thing about someone who restricted me and given me the first set of rules I had seen in years. Most of these kids have had minimal discipline going into these programs. Change is rough.
Maybe it is just because I see these problems everyday, not just with my brother but with peers, I realize the horror and wrath of drugs. I dont disagree that it is possible for some people to only "experiment" with drugs. But for most of the kids in the WWASP programs, that isnt the case. For the ones that continue and have drug dependent lives, therapy becomes a joke. Great if it has worked for some people but Id love to hear a success story from a parent who had a heavily drug addicted child where THERAPY was the "cure".
Anyway, Im not trying to change anyones opinion of these programs. They arent ideal but if it saves one kids life, isnt it worth it. My brother had the odds against him when it came to recovery. He was a bright kid with a good heart but drugs took that over. I know that he was given many opportunites to change with all sorts of professional help but when someone doesnt want to change, no therapists or doctor (which my father is) is going to do that for someone. It is a matter of will and only the individual can have that.
Oh by the way, after being picked up from Dundee Ranch after 5 weeks, he spoke nothing of abuse. Yes, he wasnt fond of the food but other than that there was minimal expected complaints. He went completly willingly to Ivy Ridge. My brother is no quite one and would have been screaming his head off if he was terrified of another school. While this may not be the school for everyone it is right for others. Thats the parents decision. Im so proud of the success that he has made thus far and I support and love him completely. If these programs can help him, I support them also.
A suppportive sister
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Well ma'am, you appear to me as having a bigger problem than drugs. Sure, drugs are more potent, your current PC is probably faster than a 8086 IBM from the late 70's, so what? Does this mean you should condone torturing and mindraping children? I doubt that reasoning would hold up in a US court. Just the act of sending your kid/sibling/etc... out of the country, where places like Dundee and all the other abusive treatment programs out there are, who can have their evil ways with kids and get paid big bucks for it, presents certain liabilities that I doubt you want to have.
Your only option, in my opinion, is to get him out of there now! And, demand a refund...at the very least.
You yourself said treatment doesn't work guaranteed, so why allow him to be abused and why do you pay money for that? That is simply unacceptable.
Please go to http://www.straightincorporated.com (http://www.straightincorporated.com) and do some reading. Check with the survivors that post on this site too. There are lots of reasons why you are just plain wrong by thinking that WWASP helps. Please, do yourself a favor and do some more research.
MG8 :smokin:
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Dear Sister,
I just had to "weigh" in on this discussion. I am a parent of a son similar to your brother. Thankfully, I came to my senses rather rapidly and pulled him out of a WWASP school after 2 1/2 months. These "schools" aren't for anyone. In fact, my son's problems were way worse after his involvement with WWASP. Why do we as a society believe that "punnishing" someone will "cure" them? There are reasonable, and viable, solutions for troubled kids, within the U.S., that do not include torture, pain and humiliation. Granted, I was sucked in by WWASP, and bought into their bull for a short time, but I came to my senses after attending the first seminar. In fact, their seminars are very similar to a form of "mind control" which was in existence during the 70's called EST. As soon as I found out what they were really about I pulled my son - thank God! He is now in a school was he is given the respect and dignity that he deserves as a human being. In fact, he is doing great - straight A student, and sober for over 6 months. So you see, there are other alternatives. It doesn't have to be so extreme. Why won't you at least consider the possiblity that WWASP is a poorly run, destructive force in the lives of troubled children? Just consider the possiblities...
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On 2003-05-24 18:59:00, Janet wrote:
Maybe he would have been the 1% who would have ODed or would have become a vegetable from drug use. If that was his destiny, Dundee probably won"t help. Not everyone comes out of a WWASP "school" cured! What makes WWASP such a "success" is that kids have a way of growing up all by themselves. WWASP takes the credit for something that would have happened anyway.
Thanks, Janet. I just wanted to comment on this, though (so contraryy! eh?)
More like .001% of people who try illicit drugs or legal drugs illicitly (underaged drinking, filching pills, etc) ever wind up seriously overdosing. Most people never get addicted to the point where they can't beat it. These people, about half of the adult American population, never come into contact with law enforcement or other authorities as a result of their drug use; they work, love, marry, divorce, watch football and go skiing and don't look anything like a homeless psychzophrenic or that racoon eyed gal on the Ad Council commercials.
What makes WWASP so 'successful' is that they have no problem with lying a whole lot AND that brainwashing actually does work. It's not the least bit therapeutic, mind you, but it is extremely effective.
I remember being asked to give my statement in a criminal investigation into Straight, Inc. I could have described how I had been thrown on a cold concrete floor and held in a 4 point without a pillow for a couple of hours for refusing to apologize to Group for having run away to my sister's home in another state. I could have described, without exageration, what happened to another kid who was not allowed to sit or sleep or use a bathroom for at least 2 1/2 days while other boys yelled at him, slapped and shoved him and also held him on the floor.
I chose not to do that. At the time, I didn't think that he or I had any valid complaint. After all, I did rebel and refuse to do what I was told. Aren't kids supposed to do what they're told? And the other kid had run away and, when they 'restrained' him, he faught back (before or after his rib broke, I don't know).
It took some time to sort it all out and understand just how F'd UP it all was. That's why no talking to anyone. That's why no reeding, no adequate sleep, severe punishment on the slightest pretense and pervasive fear and hostility like a heavy fog. Not only can you get a person to say what you want them to under these conditions, you can actually get them to believe, for a time, whatever you want them to. That's how cults work. The prison without walls.
Those letters home that some parents point to as proof that the kid is alright with what's going on are not the result of a well thought out, reasoned thought process; "If I say this, then this good thing will happen or if I say that than this bad thing will happen". It's more like, every minute, wakeing or not, you're constantly walking a tight rope to keep from getting in trouble and to try and get closer to getting out. But it becomes so all consuming that, after awhile, you actually forget what you really believe and have a hard time seperating your own thoughts from the Group identity.
Understand that legal and illegal are political, and often arbitrary,
categorizations; use and abuse are medical, or clinical, distinctions.
--Abbie Hoffman
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::noway:: Sister, you said:
"...but if it saves one kid's life, isn't it worth it?"
.........NO!.......
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On 2003-05-25 09:17:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Yes I really believe that drugs are THAT big of a problem in our society. I you are wrong statistically on population drug use since the 70s. In all the criminology, psychology, and law classes I have taken at the university, they have all gone into great detail showing that drug use has steadily increased in our society. In addition, to increased number or users they are used more often and are about 5 times stronger than those used in the 70s. Yes it is a big problem, anyone who would drugs arent, is either uninformed, uneducated or strictly naive when it comes to drugs. Its a harsh reality when its someone you love.
So then, what? Go ahead and kill the kid cause he was going to die anyway? His brain could use a little washing? Look up from those books for a while and look at what is going on around you. Drug use has possibly risen, some, but not a whole lot. But you're missing the point. All the fear mongering propaganda about how certainly destructive certain drugs are just doesn't mesh with the fact that most people who use those drugs as kids simply do not grow up to be skidrow junkies.
More to the point. Most of the kids I went to school with and who used licit and illicit drugs recreationally went on to college and/or happy marraiges and careers and are living decent lives now. Not so for most of the people I met in Straight. Even though most of them were your typical spoiled rich kid, just like the ones I knew before. The Program messed them up profoundly.
If our survival insticts as humans are so much stronger than I believe why has the war on drugs been ever increasing. Why does our government spend billions on the drug war, and billions on rehabiliation centers, which by the way have a small percentage of succesful results.
Good question. The definition of insanity, being what it is. Simple answer? Because you're still buying into it, sucker! You should know, if you're planning a career in law enforcement, that prohibition does not work. It never has and never will. You'll be asked to take an oath to uphold the constitution and the laws of your jurisdiction. Then you'll be immediately ordered to break your oath.
Drug abuse is a personal, spirital, possibly medical problem. It is not a crime as defined by out Constitution, which engenders personal responsibility, liberty and government protection ONLY from crime by others to a nonconsenting other.
Most addicts have relapsed within 3 years of a rehab center. People with a drug addiction at a young age have an 80% chance of having the same problem and worse as an adult. Statistically that doesnt give my brother or any other troubled kid that much of a chance.
So.... then why are we torturing him? And how, exactly, do you think torturing him now will make his life any easier later?
Please think about exactly why you believe WWASP is effective. The only basis I know for those claims are their own advertising and anecdotal stories of recent graduates. Ask them for long term outcome studies. Not just synopsises or citateions. Take a look, if you can get them to show you (which I doubt), at the actual studies and methodologies. If you're familiar at all with clinical research, you'll crap when you see what they're hawking as legitimate research.
Honey, I know you're a true believer and you love your brother. But, if the editorial board of the NY Times and (a few years back) the Washington Post can be sumarily duped, so can you. You're being taken for a ride.
I do not agree with demoralizing people but how sure are we that these accusations are true.
You just couldn't make this stuff up. One after another after another kid, and often parents, keep coming back with similar stories. Hell, even the parts that the Program supporters don't deny speak volumes to those of us who have been through similar Synanon based programs. You think it's a petty thing to be screamed at, scrutinized, deprived of sleep and, all the while, not allowed to talk to anyone or even smile at your fellow 'students' for a number of months? Just go and try it for yourself.
And remember (asif anyone could forget for a moment) the consequence of failure may well be being made to kneel on a hard surface for a number of hours. Try that for 20 minutes. Right now. Just get down on your knees on a hard floor and try and remain motionless for a full 20 minutes. Can't do it? Then you're being rebellions, sister! A couple of people will come and put you face down while they pull your arms backward up toward your ear till you see things their way and try again.
Most of these allegations come from students that were there for a short period of time and were unable to finish the program.
Not true. That's just what the salesmen told you. Graduates take a little while to come around. Most are somewhat scrambled in the head for awhile. All are fearful of being sent back. But, eventually, just about anyone you ask who's been out for awhile will tell you how it was.
Here's another interesting experiment. Try and get a complete contact list of families who have been out of the program for, say, the last 2 years. You figure they've got, what, about 5k kids at a time so they ought to be able to give you about 10k names, right? You'll find that they won't give. The last thing in the world they want is for former students to get together and compare notes. They have no alumni committee, no reunions, no way of contacting old friends from "school". As a matter of policy, it is frowned upon. Contacting people who left the program is strictly forbidden.
Lady, you're dealing with a cult. Wake up and smell the coffee.
I know that he was given many opportunites to change with all sorts of professional help but when someone doesnt want to change, no therapists or doctor (which my father is) is going to do that for someone. It is a matter of will and only the individual can have that.
There's only one way to change a kid's behavior against their will. Break his will. That's what these programs do. If drug use is so certainly destructive and it's only the rare lucky one who escapes junkiedome, then how do you reconcile the known fact that over half of high school kids use illicit drugs while only a rare few ever come into the kind of trouble that you attribute to drugs?
Oh by the way, after being picked up from Dundee Ranch after 5 weeks, he spoke nothing of abuse. Yes, he wasnt fond of the food but other than that there was minimal expected complaints. He went completly willingly to Ivy Ridge. My brother is no quite one and would have been screaming his head off if he was terrified of another school. While this may not be the school for everyone it is right for others. Thats the parents decision. Im so proud of the success that he has made thus far and I support and love him completely. If these programs can help him, I support them also.
A suppportive sister
"
If my father, a priest and a cop had come into the Program and asked me to my face if I wanted to leave, I would have thought it was a trick and told them no. Years after I got out, my dad asked me why I'd never told him before what had been going on. I was surprised at the question. I told him "Dad, because you would have turned me in." He knew that was true.
The right of self-defense is the first law of nature; in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest possible limits. ... and [when] the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any color or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction.
-- St. George Tucker, Judge of the Virginia Supreme Court 1803
_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
American P.O.W. 10/80 - 10/82
Straight South (Sarasota, FL)
Anonymity Anonymous
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According to the SLTribune, it is offical that Pani has successfully closed the Dundee Ranch. I cannot get the whole article to link here, an AOL issue, I am told, but go to http://www.sltrib.com (http://www.sltrib.com) and read the article about the findings and final days of this Lichfield retreat for kids.
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Thanks Majik! :smokin:
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Aaah I hate WWASP with a passion and I don't even know anyone who was ever in it. I think I hate them because I used to have more faith in people before I started researching them. I would have sooner assumed that there was an ongoing holocaust in the United States than an organized crime/cult group that dupes intelligent, wealthy parents into sending more or less normal teenagers to be tortured and mindraped.
It would have seemed so far fetched to me a few years ago that American adults as a group feel so much generalized contempt for teenagers that they could rationalize the crime against humanity (as well as the future) that is the private youth prison industry.
WWWASP may be on its way out and it very well could be if Narvin gets convicted that it will provide the momentum and media attention necesary to get TB shut down in jamaica as well as their many facilities in the US (6-8 I think in operation)
Criminal liability is the only way to truly shut these places down. When the Kay's and the Lichfields and Atkins go to prison WWASP will be dead. Suing them is just not enough, they are protected by so many layers of liability protection in their corporate structure that it would take yars to break through and hurt the individuals who run things and then they would just declare bankruptcy to avoid paying and start again.
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On 2003-05-26 01:06:00, FaceKhan wrote:
"Aaah I hate WWASP with a passion and I don't even know anyone who was ever in it. I think I hate them because I used to have more faith in people before I started researching them. I would have sooner assumed that there was an ongoing holocaust in the United States than an organized crime/cult group that dupes intelligent, wealthy parents into sending more or less normal teenagers to be tortured and mindraped.
Yeah, that's how most people still think. That's been the problem. I can't tell you how encouraging it is to me when someone like you sees it too. Last week, when the first Dundee story hit the NYT I got mail from all over, privately and also on lists that I sometimes haunt, asking me what these people had to do with Straight. It's starting to resonate. People are startiong to get it. Among the many misdeeds of British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest.
Mahatma Gandhi, My Autobigraphy, p. 446
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According to the articles that are circulating here in Utah, Lichfield is in jail, and hopefully being subjected to the same torture that he presented to the youth who were sent to his "loving care"! Imagine, Lichfield being raped by the likes of the "Gary Gilmores, and Roberto Arguilles" of the prison populations here in this fine state. The people of ST. George are probably all up in arms about this guy being locked up. (After all, he brings in a huge amount of revenue for the city and state, and the tax dollars are dwindling down for every moment that he is not in action.)Apparently the guy who was supposed to be taking care of the business in Costa Rica has his hands full trying to get the kids out and back to the states, poor baby!
Too bad we can't just lock him in the vermit infested corridors of his so called "treatment" facility.
Thank goodness for Pani being unwilling to allow this treatment any longer.
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Look at the most recent one from NYT (recent thread in this forum). Narvin was released after 30 hours and ordered to stay in the country. I wonder if they're watching to see if he does. I hope so, but am not counting on it.
Even if he squirms and slithers away, at least Costa Rica has shut them down after only a year and a half and put others on notice that they just don't put up with that sort of thing in their country. Now, wtf is wrong with America!? For over 30 goddamned YEARS these people have been abusing children and tearing families apart for fun and profit. How much longer will it take us to get up to speed with countries like Costa Rica and the Chezk Republic? The fatal pedagogical error is to throw answers, like stones, at the heads of those who have not yet asked the questions.
Paul Tillich
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What you aren't hearing is that the chaos started because an alcoholic non-custodial parent went there to see her daughter. The girl didn't even want to see this mother, that's when this mother brought in the authorities. Could this is the same person who has been writing all the attacks (Carey??) on this site? She hurt a lot of kids and parents by doing this for whatever motives she had for herself. Did you know that out of the 200 kids there, 170 said they wanted to stay! What purpose would they have in saying they wanted to stay when they knew they didn't have to and there was no fear from saying this? From what I've read here, this "slam" sight is full of angry people that 1- have no experience of the positive results it creates (no, it's not a cult and if you had experience of it you would know that) 2-teens that spent a long time there and did nothing or little with the gift their parents were giving them, or 3- teens that manipulated their parents into believing they were being abused or starved or whatever just to get a ticket home. (gee, what got them there in the first place??) Dundee is closing until the allegations are checked out and proven to be false. Just like any newspaper article, go ahead and believe what you read if you choose to,but know there is SO MUCH more to this story from those that know what really happened. Do you really think there are 200 parents that are stupid enough to knowingly put their child in danger? And yes, plenty of them had been there more than once. A little secret...most kids in the beginning will say ANYTHING to come home and abuse is the number one tactic because they think it will work. My son has been home for almost 3 years from another WWASP facility and I KNOW what it taught him and my family has worked for the long term. Most of us wouldn't even think of posting on this site, because it's such a negative place to be - so many assumptions - let the investigation tell the truth. My educated experience comes from Cross Creek Programs -
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Well, you must be that one person that was "saved" after having your son thrown to the lions and I suppose you got your money's worth in the meantime. As more time passes, I doubt you will say the same thing.
What lack of parent skills created the situation where you could not control your child to the point where you saw fit to pay someone to do such terrible things to him? Being stupid has nothing to do with that. You could be the most intelligent person on Earth, so what?
I went through straight inc 20 years ago and graduated with all the honors. Back then, I was all gung ho too. If you only took some time to see what the overall picture of WWASP is, maybe you might have a different view of these places. Does your son know anyone from these cross creek programs that are dead now from suicide? Please get your head out of the sand, thank you.
MG8 :smokin:
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On 2003-05-26 21:46:00, Anonymous wrote:
"What you aren't hearing is that the chaos started because an alcoholic non-custodial parent went there to see her daughter.
No, actually, what started all the trouble was a former academy director, Amberly Knight, wrote to the Costa Rican minister for child welfare, saying that "Dundee Ranch Academy should not be allowed to operate because it is poorly managed, takes financial advantage of parents in crisis, and puts teens in physical and emotional risk."
[New York Times http://www.nytimes.com/2003/05/27/inter ... &position= (http://www.nytimes.com/2003/05/27/international/americas/27COST.html?ei=5062&en=d031be3c631dc677&ex=1054612800&partner=GOOGLE&pagewanted=print&position=) ]
The girl didn't even want to see this mother, that's when this mother brought in the authorities. Could this is the same person who has been writing all the attacks (Carey??) on this site?
Carey's sons are already out. And I have to say, that lady has my admiration. It must have taken some considerable raw courage along with fast thinking to walk right in, break out with those two boys and then talk her way past Customs and Immigration, despite the fact that the staff at Dundee had their pasports locked in a safe back at the office. ::bangin:: " --IBID
That, in the more comonly accepted reality, is the sort of thing most people think of when you say something like "A lot of kids were hurt".
From what I've read here, this "slam" sight is full of angry people that 1- have no experience of the positive results it creates (no, it's not a cult and if you had experience of it you would know that) 2-teens that spent a long time there and did nothing or little with the gift their parents were giving them, or 3- teens that manipulated their parents into believing they were being abused or starved or whatever just to get a ticket home. (gee, what got them there in the first place??)
Well, there are currently 493 registered users, 84 of whom have posted in the last 30 days and 13 of whom have registered in the past week. Then there are the considerable number of anonymous posters. As far as I know, not one teenager. In fact, most of us could well be described as "over the hill". And most of us have had considerably more experience with this Synanon based cult than you have yet. See, we've all come out the other end and have the benefit of hind-sight. You, my friend and spiritual brother (or sister) are still deep in the fog. Come back when you've quit drinking the kool aid.
Dundee is closing until the allegations are checked out and proven to be false.
Or when Hell freezes over, whichever comes first. :wink:
Just like any newspaper article, go ahead and believe what you read if you choose to,but know there is SO MUCH more to this story from those that know what really happened.
I'm Tryin' ta' tell ya', friend!
Do you really think there are 200 parents that are stupid enough to knowingly put their child in danger?
Do you believe there are millions of people stupid enough to buy into EST, Scientology and Jim and Tammy Baker? Were there another 50k or so parents stupid enough to buy into Straight, Inc. and untold numbers more who continue to get sucked dry by this same cult under it's new names?
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
--Albert Einstein
And yes, plenty of them had been there more than once. A little secret...most kids in the beginning will say ANYTHING to come home and abuse is the number one tactic because they think it will work. My son has been home for almost 3 years from another WWASP facility and I KNOW what it taught him and my family has worked for the long term. Most of us wouldn't even think of posting on this site, because it's such a negative place to be - so many assumptions - let the investigation tell the truth. My educated experience comes from Cross Creek Programs - "
Funny, so many of these kids get shackled in their beds and even drugged to get them to these virtual paradises because they're chronic runaways. And now you're saying that all they ever wanted was to go home? That seems rather odd, don't you think? And, if the problem was running away, and suddenly the kid wants nothing more than the warmth and affection of their loving and faultless[sic] parents, then why don't they just declare the kid cured and send them back to good old mom and pop?
Honey, I'd be willing to bet good money that your son has tried to tell you how phucked up that place was. You don't want to hear it. You seem to have a gift for selective perception.
Emotions rule the world; Is it any wonder that it's so mucked up?!
Anonymity Anonymous (http://fornits.com/anonanon)
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I want to help you get the facts straight.
First, I am not an alcoholic, as I only have a drink maybe two or three times a year.
Second, I don't have a daughter who was at Dundee, I have twin boys who were at Dundee.
Third, I was at Dundee in October of last year and I did not bring any authorities with me, I brought a news reporter, an educational consultant and two body guards. (I took the reporter so there would be a record and I took the other three individuals because they had already been there and they knew what I would encounter.)
Fourth, Dundee is closing because of human rights violations.
"Do you really think there are 200 parents that are stupid enough to knowingly put their child in danger?" NO, I don't think that at all. I am not going to call anybody stupid, I would have to know them personally to be able to make that determination. However, from your post and the statements made thereon, I do question where you get your facts. This is what I think about the 200 parents who had children at Dundee. I beleive alot of the 200 parents were deceived by the marketing techniques that WWASP uses. I beleive that some parents are in denial, maybe such as yourself, because they are afraid and they want so badly for their kids to be ok. And, I beleive that some parents really don't care.
All I did was turn on a light so that the other millions of people in the US and abroad could see the choice that some parents were making in regard to "straigening out their children." If it is determined that what was going on down there at Dundee, was not abusive, then so be it. But you and I both know that won't be the case. So for those like you who are angry with me, you are angry because I have made others aware of your choice. I have made others aware of what I beleive is abusive. That is all that I have done.
So, let's let the investigation tell the truth. But when all is said and done, lets beleive what is disclosed from doing so.
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Best get the hip waders on, golly jeez. :question:
MG8 :smokin:
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I would guess that they don't allow pregnant women for 2 reasons one is that the seminars put the same kinds of brainwashing stress levels and subtle food deprivation (by delaying mealtimes by several hours ) that the kids go through in the gulags. Which obviously a pregnant woman with her nutritional needs would not tolerate. The other reason that I think they figured that most men and women would probably not accept some asshole trying to break down a pregnant woman. That might just be the limit to which they their promise to listen to the whole thing still binds them.
Well I am sure that is what they are telling parents but Costa Rica is a bit funny about things going on in their country. They have this crazy idea that they make the rules and that Dundee will open or not open based on what their courts say not when Kay or Lichfield says.
Besides how are they supposed to get those kids back now that they know they have the legal right in Costa Rica to leave. Its just gonna have riot after riot until one group of kids gets smart and poisons the staff Koolaid.
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On 2003-05-27 09:04:00, METALGOD8 wrote:
Latest wire is that Dundee is planning to re-open within 60 days.
MG8 :smokin: "
Where's that come from? You mean the AP or a WWASP press release or what?
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Yeah, not ONLY that, but the kids that saw how the whole thing fell apart at Dundee may not be so easily cowed at TB in Jamaica or anywhere else.
A group mindfuck relies heavily on the illusion that half a dozen staff members have effective control over a couple hundred teenagers. The reality is that, if the kids pull together and rebell, staff doesn't stand a chance at controling them.
It's not just the fact of knowing that, technically, they have a right and ability to walk out. It's having witnessed it and experienced it that makes it a real posibility.
So these kids who have been transfered might just be the undoing of those other facilities. I would highly recomend WWASP shut down right now and send those kids home for everyone's sake. This could turn into a sort of Lord of the Flies thing real quick!
Perhaps the sentiments contained in the following
pages, are not yet sufficiently fashionable to procure them
general favor; a long habit of not thinking a thing wrong,
gives it a superficial appearance of being right, and raises
at first a formidable outcry in defence of custom. But the
tumult soon subsides. Time makes more converts than reason.
Thomas Paine, Common Sense
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Stupid is as stupid does.