Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: thanks:-) on July 07, 2007, 04:37:17 PM
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Step 1: Tell her what's about to happen to her if she doesn't disappear into nowhere, now. Odds are she won't actually do that. This can't be iterated enough: you have to tell her, now, and warn her of the abuse to come. This will at least form some sort of shield in her mind if nothing else...
Step 2: Get her parents on Fornits. Now. ISAC works too. Giving various survivors her parents' contact inforation (Psy is an excellent choice, here) and contact information works too.
Basically, let everyone know what they're in for.
Here's the joke of a website this shithole runs: http://www.hephzibahhouse.org/ (http://www.hephzibahhouse.org/)
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All I can say is that if the facility was placed in Pakistan or Afganistan your servicemen would receive a young girl strapped with a bomb vest in 15 months ready to blow herself and your servicemen up.
That is the degree of religious brainwash they offer.
As her family you need to contact the social services in her hometown and report to them that this girl is in danger to get her education ruined.
She is too young to be emancipated from her parents (It worked against Turnabout Ranch, but the girl was 16), so the social services is her only hope.
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Can anyone give me any advice on trying to help me prevent sister from sending my 15 year old neice to a 15 month lock up christian progam?It's described as a "Home for wayward girls" in Winona Lake, Indiana, called Hephzibah House, run by a minister named Ronald E Williams. The guy is an absolute religious zealous freak who supports child abuse. My niece doesn't know that in just a few days she's being escorted on a plane and taken to this place. She's a good kid and this will kill her. So far the legal advice that I've received is that there is nothing I can do. Any ideas/advice would be very much appreciated. Thanks!!
All I can say is tell your niece immediately and do everything you can to get her out of there. Help her disappear, no one deserves to be put in a program.
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Maybe she should go to one of the YMCA's shelter houses - That might be a safe and legal solution until she and her mom can get all this straightened out and she is safe from any "Program".
If they don't have a YMCA shelter house where she is - they do in Louisville. Probably in Indy too - maybe call around.
If she were a run away - she could go into any "safe place" like a McDonalds for example - and the manager is supposed to call the shelter house if she ask them too. The "safe places" have a dimond shaped yellow sign in the windows saying "safe place"
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Maybe she should go to one of the YMCA's shelter houses - That might be a safe and legal solution until she and her mom can get all this straightened out and she is safe from any "Program".
If they don't have a YMCA shelter house where she is - they do in Louisville. Probably in Indy too - maybe call around.
If she were a run away - she could go into any "safe place" like a McDonalds for example - and the manager is supposed to call the shelter house if she ask them too. The "safe places" have a dimond shaped yellow sign in the windows saying "safe place"
Not sure what the different state laws are but in most places a minor would be turned over to their parent unless there was major abuse done. The YMCA, etc would do nothing to protect a 15 yr old.....
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Not so - not here. A run away can stay if they will follow some simple rules. One is they must tell the parents where they are. They are not allowed to hide there. But - they will not make a kid go back home until they are ready to. They do offer re-unification therapy for the family; and the kid gets therapy while there - from actual therapist. The kid would have to go to school - they get them enrolled at what ever school the shelter kids attend - it is a Public school. They have to do their home work. They have some regular house hold chore type jobs they have to do - and they also have field trips to the swiming pool or movies and so on. Its a little bit shabby - but not dirty. All in all it might be a very good option. But the kid does have to be a run away. . . it is not a "program" for parents to dump kids in.
Maybe it isn't an option - I am not positive about how they operate now - things do change - but I do feel it might be worth looking into.
Maybe I should be clear - I am not speaking of the regular YMCA. In some cities they have "shelter houses" that are set up to assist run aways and help keep them of the streets - and so safe. They do not (or at least did not) force a return to home. It is/ was assumed the child needed a safe place besides home for a while, at least.
One could call, explain they had a run away niece - needs a safe alternative to home for a while - can they help - see what they say.
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I agree with some of the other posters... Help her disappear.
If her mother is not deterred by reading the words from that scary bastard on his own website, nothing you can say will change things in her mind. If you can, petition for custody and support your niece yourself. If you're not able to... educate her about what goes on in places like this. Warn her, show her fornits and the lists of kids who die. Scare the shit out of her, so that she'll be able to react accordingly. Help her run away - best if it were out of state - even across the country. If you know anyone who can help her start herself on a life of her own, get them to help to. She is going to have to grow up fast and learn how to take care of herself, but that's better than her becoming a broken shell of the person she once was, "a servant to the Lord and Owner of her home and herself."
Please, that's what someone should have done for me.
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Agree with what Buzzkill and Rachael said. Are you able to take her on yourself?
At the least, do your homework, and find out what "safe houses" are in her area, and give her the immediate directions to the facility, or drive her yourself, until something can be worked out with her immediate family (mom).
I know from my experience, that reacting to my son's behavior, instead of calmly responding, was the wrong thing, and therefore, I made the wrong decision, the biggest one I have ever made. Don't let that happen to your neice, if at all possible.
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I know the program is in Indiana, where does the teen girl live? That might help to find her help.
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What about the State of Washington? What are the rules on runaways there?
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Something about this situation doesn't "ring" right. Send someone in to an abusive facility to prove it's abusive then maybe the "mother" will get it?
Come on Kelly. There's enough info out there to convince anyone that locked faith based schools are bad news.
Here's a thought, why don't YOU take your sister to this place and spend a day with her touring the facility UNANNOUNCED? This way, your sister confirms it's abusive and if she tries to place the kid anyway, you tell her you will begin court proceedings to challenge her "fitness" as a mother.
Start building a case to get parental rights taken away is your only real hope IMO.
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I know the program is in Indiana, where does the teen girl live? That might help to find her help.
She lives in Oregon but is staying with me in Washington right now. I'm talking to a lawyer in Oregon tomorrow. It doesn't look like they will be able to stop her mother from sending her. She's a very "young" 15 and couldn't run away. The shelters return her to her parents within 8 hours anyway. I guess that what I'd really like is to get this place exposed, find out about abuse going on there. I think that's about they only way I could convince my sister that she shouldn't go. Anyone feel like going in as a "spy"?? :-)
Hm... you should probably talk to Buzzkill. I have a fair knowledge of Christianity, but she probably trumps me in that area. Tag-teaming them with dual-interviews might work. She could call him up, and talk to him as a prospective parent (the corporal punishment fanatical wacko kind, etc)... I could then call up as an independent journalist asking questions and see if I can catch him in a lie.
Indiana is a one party consent state in terms of phone call recording so it would be easy to record the call.
http://www.rcfp.org/taping/ (http://www.rcfp.org/taping/)
As far as a spy in person? hmmm.. anybody here from Indiana?
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///Anyone feel like going in as a "spy"??///
I could - but I don't see it as being very useful. Chances are they would flat out lie - and I am sure they would put on the standard dog and pony show.
For some reason I had thought your family was in IN - foolish of me I guess. If it would help, I could talk to your sister about the danger involved with such a placement - about how they manipulate and mislead the parents. I could explain how such programs commonly monitor all communication between parent and child making it impossible for the child to tell the parent what is happening, with out being at great risk of painful consequences.
If it gets to the point you know she will be going - if you think it inevitable - make her memorize the number for IN CPS - so she can call and report any abuse, if she happens to get a chance to use a phone. Also, she will need to memorize the families numbers so she can call for help if she happens to run away - or if she ends up stuck there till 18, and then takes an "exit plan" - which would mean she is abandoned to the streets of some strange town with out resources.
If they intend to fly her - she needs to know - if she tells the flight attendant: "I do not want to board this plane. I do not want to be in the company of this person. I am being taken against my will" - they can not put her on that plane. They will probably call the cops. She needs to be willing to raise her voice and be very firm - willing to shout "I am being forced to board this plane against my will!" They will not then let her on the flight. The cops might try to talk her into boarding - that flight or another - but she needs to stick to her guns no matter how they try to intimidate her.
She needs to know jail is much safer and she will have far more rights in jail than in any program - if they happen to threaten her with jail. They might offer to take her to a shelter to call for assistance from family. How the cops respond is open to question - but I do know the Flight Attendants can not let a disruptive passenger on the flight - and I have been told by an escort that if the kid objects to boarding, they can not put them on the plane.
What they do is then threaten to drive the kid how ever many hours - and to make it miserable - but as you can imagine - this would open the door for many more opportunities to get help. Tell her - do not let them put her on the plane.
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Great advice by Buzzkill,just to add that do whatever it takes, I read years ago that Alexia Parks said even if the child makes a false accusation of rape against an escort, it would buy some time.
I have no sympathy towards an escort who is about to take a child to be abused, should he be falsely accused of rape.
The escorts say it is their job to get them there no matter what, well, the daughter and other people can try to stop it no matter what.
Kelly, not that it makes a difference but do you happen to know what escort company has been hired for the escort?
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Some things are worth going to jail for. Even for a long time. This is one of them.
Tell her what they're going to do, show her what is likely to happen to her if she allows them to take her there, take her and run--across state lines, hide under and assumed name, abandon all your life baggage--home, job, friends, relationships and just go.
The world is full of cases where people didn't get out of some horrible situation and died because they didn't know when to run or, if they decided to run, they looked back and tried to go back and take their stuff. Empty your bank accounts completely, pack a couple of bags, charge your credit cards up to the limit with non-perishable foods, socks and underwear, ordinary clothes including some a size or two up if she's still growing, long-wearing shoes.
Don't forget a can opener and hot plate. If you can afford it, charge one of those converters that lets you plug in stuff and runs off your car battery. Take a bag of charcoal--parks frequently have charcoal grills.
You won't be able to use your credit cards or your ATM cards again without giving away your location, so fill them up with stuff you will need--including a resume or ten under assumed names with fictional qualifications of stuff you really can do. Only use xeroxed copies of these, on good paper, for job applications. Your computer access will be iffy.
Buy and fill a couple of gas cans to extend your driving range before you have to talk to anyone.
Pick a direction and do not stop until you are out of gas. Cross the Canadian border with her--you'll have to use real ID and say you're visiting friends on vacation. Pick a direction and keep driving. Sleep in the car, go potty in the woods. Sponge bath, wash in the car while your gas holds out. Use your water to wash beside the car. Take bleach and refill your big (at least 5 gal) water container at streams. Wash in stream water, cook and drink stream water you've treated with a few drops of bleach. If you let it sit in air, the chlorine evaporates off and you almost certainly won't get anything from the water. If you do, a doc in a box at your destination can cure it easy.
Do not stop and give *anybody* a chance to see you no matter what. They will track you as far as the border based on your real Driver's License (check--I think you can cross the border on vacation with just a DL still--if it would take even a couple of days to get a visa or clearance or something, stay in the US and see if Mexico lets you cross from the US over on just a DL, but Canada's way closer to you.)
Canada has the advantage that they might believe the kid's in danger if they extradite her and keep her regardless of the treaties. Mexico has the advantage that if you can by hook or by crook scrape up enough money, anybody can be bribed.
Do not, do not, do not ever use an ATM card or credit card ever again. Charge the cards up and fill up in the middle or side of town before you leave, not in the direction you flee.
Don't pick aliases that have your first or last initials--most people do that.
Work at hole-in-the wall off the books places, with illegal immigrants, and work hard as hell. Live among them. People aren't too likely to recognize you, and they have too much to lose if they turn you in. It's probably okay to tell a few illegal co-workers or neighbors a little if they ask too much. Not the name of the school, but that you're getting her away from child abuse. She'll need a job, too. If the illegals have their kids in school, it's probably safe for you to. It means the local authorities maybe are sympathetic to them and don't want higher officials coming in and making trouble.
Keep your mouth shut. Never contact anybody you used to know. Ever again. Not until after she's 21. Not anybody, not ever. Doing that one thing is what gets most people caught. Dear old so and so who would never narc you out WILL. Even if they don't, if they're the type not to narc you out, the authorities or a private detective will be tapping their phones and watching them--or will have turned their friends or neighbors--and will catch you anyway.
I mean it. Everybody has somebody who they think is "safe"--and they get caught over and over again that way. Even if good old Aunt Millie WAS safe--herself.
Resist temptation to break cover.
Don't work at what you do now. Preferably, leverage your skills sideways so you don't work at a job you EVER worked at. If you want out of minimum wage again, learn completely new skills.
Your neice may have to stay out of school and lie about her age. Or not. Canadians don't like homeschooling and it's often not legal there. In any case, drop her out as soon as it's legal or she looks old enough to the legal age for dropping out to lie. Let her study on her own and take the tests later, when she's grown and it's safe to take them under her own name.
You'll quite possibly go to jail for a long time when you get caught--which will hopefully be after she turns 21 and you can try to return to whatever normal life you once had.
The important thing is that you will have saved HER from being traumatized and having nightmares the rest of HER life--or whatever other horrible harms (including death) other kids have suffered in these places, as well as their nightmares for life. She will be able to go back to her real identity at 21 with no legal consequences for ever leaving it.
I said it before. Some things are worth going to jail for. This is one of them.
Screw self interest. She's only a kid, and she has the whole rest of her life ahead of her. Save her. Adults save imperilled children who can't save themselves. The world is a shitty place where often mass-murderers die of old age, comfortably in bed. Women get raped in dark alleys. Innocent people die cold and alone, of torture, under one madman or another, and frequently the Knight in Shining Armor never comes to the rescue.
Every adult's primary responsibility is cushioning children from that basic truth, keeping them in a world where the villain always loses at the end of the story until they're old enough to take up the burden themselves.
Sure, we squeeze what happiness we can out of the deal, but the world is a hard, dangerous, shitty place and we can't ever change that fact. We can find ourselves a little corner of happy and peace now and then if we're lucky, but that happy and peace is a thin layer of nail varnish over the dark truth.
We change it as much as we can, but it's never enough, and never will be. It's just a hell of a lot better than it would be if we gave in and gave up. You can't win, you can't break even, you can't even quit the game--but you can make it a hell of a lot less shitty if you try.
"The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing."
You've already probably had a little corner of happy and peace. Now she needs a shot at one. Besides, who knows? You might find a good new life, not be prosecuted, or get off light. If you don't do anything she's DEFINITELY going to get at least parts of herself permanently broken. You're the only knight she's got. If you don't ride to the rescue, no one will--not for her.
Be the adult you obviously are and save the kid.
Julie
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As you can probably tell, I'm a mother.
Julie
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Kelly, does your sister plan on her having the escorts pick her up at your home? I ask because you did not say a date for your niece to be back home in Oregon for the planned escort.
Am I right to assume that Oregon law would apply if the runaway is from Oregon and fled Oregon and went to Washington?
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Julie, with the recently passed law, she would need passports to enter Canada. Same thing with Mexico. Mexico might have required passports previous to the recently passed law.
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WSOF-FM.
Buzzkill, you get this station out in KY? These so called Christians have air time every Saturday at 8:45 AM.
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WSOF-FM.
Buzzkill, you get this station out in KY? These so called Christians have air time every Saturday at 8:45 AM.
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Intesting Note if your niece lived in California
"Every state designates children as minors until they reach a certain age: the age of majority. In California, that age is 18. (Fam. Code 6502)
A minor may not give legally binding consent in many situations. (Fam. Code 6700, 6701, 6920, 6921, 6925, 7050.) Specifically, a minor may not:...
However, in California a minor may:
...consent to his or her own mental health treatment or counseling on an outpatient basis or participate in a decision to consent to residential shelter services if he or she is at least 12 years olds, determined to be sufficiently mature to consent to residential shelter services, or is otherwise emanciapted. (Fam. Code 6920, 6921, 6924.) (Nolo's Cal. Law. 8th. Ed, 2004.)
I would recommend blowing off the attorney, go to your local law library and pull up the family code section for Chidren/Minors for the state in which she lives. Then look up the definition of "Residential Shelter" as it pertains to this section.
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Sorry, double posted by accident there.
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Michael
As long as you can show there is an applicaiton for a passport pending, you can still get into Mexico and Canada with a state ID and/or birth cert. Because of the back log in passports, the State Department has extended the time. I believe the Carribean is also listed. Look at the State Department Passport Section for reference. I don't have it off hand, otherwise I would have put it here. Good luck.
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Have heard from one escort they require the parents to give them a power of attorney, before they pick up the child.
Then when your sister gives up her daughter to them, they have the power of attorney over her.
When Children get in some of these programs, the problem is the programs have LEGAL custody, of your child. until age 18.
I'm sure someone else may know more.
Just a few things I have found during research.
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Kelly
Get her itinerary, it may buy you some time for other people to come up with some other ideas.
I had my kid in a program, not smart, but the last place I was going to send my child was some bible-toting, religous-fanatics, who live out in the middle of the woods, and drink pink punch when the shit hits the fan. These guys are WAY more dangerious.
Do more homework, print it out and shove it in her face, sit on her and read it to her if you have to. DWIT
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Just another thought, you could refuse to send her back, meaning they'd have to come get her, or you could take a small little trip and have it run over, delaying her even more, while you figure this out. Even if the police become involved, you've at least stalled for a few days, maybe even a week, who knows. Lots of alternatives out there. Don't give up. Someone will think of something, but you have to act on whatever is suggested that fits for you, your husband and your niece. Let her participate in this as well.
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Michael
As long as you can show there is an applicaiton for a passport pending, you can still get into Mexico and Canada with a state ID and/or birth cert. Because of the back log in passports, the State Department has extended the time. I believe the Carribean is also listed. Look at the State Department Passport Section for reference. I don't have it off hand, otherwise I would have put it here. Good luck.
Thanks Julie. Only thing is if she doesn't get a passport application or applications before they start trying to locate her and her niece and if she applies while on the run, that could help locate her and her niece
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Kelly Ryan is posting from Washington?
Kelly Ryan is the "Aunt" of a troubled teen who needs help?
Has the desperate Aunt Kelly Ryan given any posters her email or phone contact information?
Fornits posters are being scammed by Izzy. Pay-back-time for Izzy being exposed by the "aunt," Patti Atwoods!
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Actually Michael, that wasn't Julie, it was Sidhe Shee posting under guest, was in a hurry so didn't sign in.
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Kelly Ryan is posting from Washington?
Kelly Ryan is the "Aunt" of a troubled teen who needs help?
Has the desperate Aunt Kelly Ryan given any posters her email or phone contact information?
Fornits posters are being scammed by Izzy. Pay-back-time for Izzy being exposed by the "aunt," Patti Atwoods!
What is this person talking about? It kinda freaks me out........
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Michael
She can get a certified copy of birth the same day at the county recorder, then all she has to do is go to AAA and get passport photos, or mailboxes, or anyone that does them for that matter, then go to a local Post office that does passports, get the application fill it out and submit it, they give you back receipts and documentation showing that you have applied.
It's been so long, I am not sure if you have to be a parent or guardian whose applying, and if not, a notarized letter from the parent or guardian. Kelly can go online and check that out too.
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Actually Michael, that wasn't Julie, it was Sidhe Shee posting under guest, was in a hurry so didn't sign in.
Sorry, Sidhe Shee, thanks.
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Almost forgot, some states have changed their laws as to who is entitled to certain recorded documents from the County Recorders Office. Just another headsup.
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Heres the most recently updated site for the State Department concerning passports http://http://travel.state.gov/
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Kelly
What state and county was she born in? If you want, I can look up what their requirements are. Just let me know.
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Michael
You are so welcome!
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What state and county was she born in? If you want, I can look up what their requirements are. Just let me know.
T
Thanks guys but I won't be skippin' town.
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Why did AUNT Kelly Ryan change her user name?
Aunt Kelly Ryan, how did you find Fornits?
Did you contact any other websites for assistance and advice?
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Thanks Buzzkill, PSY and everyone.
As far as the offer to talk to my sister, could you PM me with you number buzzkill? She likely won't call as her mind is made up and you'd have to come off as super fundamentalist (like the pastor who runs the school).
I've tried to call the school to get info. and even pretended to be a parent thinking of placing my kid there. I got confused when they started asking me what church I went to and I think they got suspicious of my questions so I really didn't get anywhere. My husband and I are seriously considering a flight to Indiana, I'm just afraid they won't let us in.
As far as the escort stuff, her mom is going along with the escort so she's kinda screwed there.
My niece is not the kind of kid who could runaway, she's really frail and has no street smarts. I am planning to have her memorize lots of phone numbers. She has some learning difficulty so we were acutally thinking of having ours tatooed somewhere on her discreet.
She's here with me right now and my heart is breaking:-(
Like PSY asked, is anyone here from Indiana and willing to play the place a visit? I'd even pay you!
Aunt - email me: BuzzKilll@insightbb.com
Her mom might be going along with the escort stuff alright - but what I'm saying is the air lines wont - not if she will say loud and plain and with out stopping: "I am being taken against my will; I do not want to board this plane!"
As for coming across fundamentalist - no problem ;) I am pretty much what most people would call a fundi - or an evangelical - but basically, I do believe the Bible is God's word. Our Lord is very clear that we are not to do harm to one another - and especially not to children. It is also equally clear that faith is not something you can force on a person - and that attempting to do so will do both you and them more harm than good.
I might be able to help your sister see things from another POV - that is in keeping with Christian living. I'm willing to try.
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Guest
Maybe KellyRyan was too revealing, and she wants to go back to an anon status. People have done stranger things.
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The Aunt Kelly should speak for herself; as to why she changed her user name; how she found Fornits; and if she has contacted any other websites for assistance and advice.
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Have you given her a copy of An American Gulag by Alexia Parks?
If that doesn't do it, nothing will.
:roll:
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Come to think of it, this Aunt's story sounds identical to Alexia Park's situation.
Just different states.
Maybe the "Aunt" has read An American Gulag?
:rofl:
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Come to think of it, this Aunt's story sounds identical to Alexia Park's situation.
Just different states.
Maybe the "Aunt" has read An American Gulag?
:rofl:
Hey guys, Just trying to get some help. What's American Gulag? Would it be helpful for me to read in this situation? I changed the name because an earlier post was kind of freaky. Anyway, thanks to all of you who are being heplful.
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If Kelly wasn't real, why would she need to change her name? Use logic, fuckheads.
Sorry, Kelly- on Fornits we question people's reality as we get a lot of unreal people. Hey Buzz, can you post something to the effect of "I talked to her, this is for real"?
There's always a chance of it, but I'll say this is no troll. Of course a similar situation was in a book. This shit happens all the time!
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(Oh, yeah. The whole name changing thing was a waste. The local anons ALWAYS watch for shit like that. You can't blow your nose and edit it out ten minutes later without someone noticing. Everyone's bullshit filter is just that high-toned here. Roll with it.)
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http://www.teenliberty.org (http://www.teenliberty.org)
Yeah, buy the book and give it to your sister. If she cares about your neice, she will rethink the stupid decision to SEND HER to a God Is Good Gulag. OTOH, anyone that would even consider this as an option has some serious issues going on with their relationship with/to "God".
Freedom of Religion? That only applies to grownups.
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Aunt Kelly, changed her name to THE AUNT on her 8:10 posting. The posting she referred to as "freaky" was made at 8:42.
You changed you user name before any questions were asked of you.
Why are you ignoring TWO SIMPLE questions, AUNT KELLY?
How did you find Fornits, and have you contacted any other websites for advice?
Those seem like simple questions.
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What's up with the questions about the name?.......
After something was written that kind of creeped me out I decided to change my user name. Anyway, I found fornits on a link from a site that provided help and information related to teen programs. I haven't been on any other blogs.
My question is, why does any of that matter?? I'm just trying to help a kid and now I'm thinking this is not the best place to do that. That's kind of sad, I thought this would be a safe and helpful place (mostly it has been).
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The question was: Have your contacted any other WEBSITES for advice? No one mentioned blogs. Why would you mention the word "blogs?" That's rather strange.
And you changed your user name before the question that you claim were "freaky."
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I thought this would be a safe and helpful place
Not familiar with the Internet, are you? Fornits is unmoderated and full of formerly abused kids (now adults), many of whom hold an amazing amount of hate in their hearts. This makes it about as safe as a dark alley in Compton.
BuzzKill really is the solid Christian he claims to be (read his other posts- no one can keep pretending that long). Psy really is a hardcore anti-program crusader.
The reason the other anon is quizzing you so harshly is that he believes you to be either Isabelle Zehnder (a false advocate, very unpopular on this board) or someone posting on her behalf. This reflects the anon's fixation more than anything else.
And the only reason we are so helpful to you is that it accomplishes our main generally-accepted collective goal: keeping kids the hell out of torture facilities.
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Well then, maybe Aunt Kelly is Aunt Patti? LOL on the paranoid activity here lately.
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I thought this would be a safe and helpful place
Not familiar with the Internet, are you? Fornits is unmoderated and full of formerly abused kids (now adults), many of whom hold an amazing amount of hate in their hearts. This makes it about as safe as a dark alley in Compton.
BuzzKill really is the solid Christian he claims to be (read his other posts- no one can keep pretending that long). Psy really is a hardcore anti-program crusader.
The reason the other anon is quizzing you so harshly is that he believes you to be either Isabelle Zehnder (a false advocate, very unpopular on this board) or someone posting on her behalf. This reflects the anon's fixation more than anything else.
And the only reason we are so helpful to you is that it accomplishes our main generally-accepted collective goal: keeping kids the hell out of torture facilities.
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Well then, maybe Aunt Kelly is Aunt Patti? LOL on the paranoid activity here lately.
Aunt Patti is a FOF (Friend of Fornites). Aunt Kelly is prolly someone who normally talks to herself in the 3rd person.
I will reserve judgment until Buzz confirms she has talked to AK and that this person (A) didn't talk her ear off and (B) didn't stick her with an $800.00 cell phone bill.
:rofl:
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I thought this would be a safe and helpful place
Not familiar with the Internet, are you? Fornits is unmoderated and full of formerly abused kids (now adults), many of whom hold an amazing amount of hate in their hearts. This makes it about as safe as a dark alley in Compton.
BuzzKill really is the solid Christian he claims to be (read his other posts- no one can keep pretending that long). Psy really is a hardcore anti-program crusader.
The reason the other anon is quizzing you so harshly is that he believes you to be either Isabelle Zehnder (a false advocate, very unpopular on this board) or someone posting on her behalf. This reflects the anon's fixation more than anything else.
And the only reason we are so helpful to you is that it accomplishes our main generally-accepted collective goal: keeping kids the hell out of torture facilities.
This GUEST has it ALL figured out. :rofl:
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Why isn't Aunt Kelly spending some quality time with her niece instead of sitting on the internet the past 6 hours or so? She's been given options; says she has an appointment with an attorney; hasn't bothered to inform the kid; and wants strangers to play "spy" for her.
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If fornits is too harsh you should post on PSY forum.
http://www.freepowerboards.com/strugglingppl/index.php (http://www.freepowerboards.com/strugglingppl/index.php)
This has parents posting here too.
If you're really an advocate he'll out you though.
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Someone's playing Troll Patrol :rofl:
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Who refers to their own niece as "A KID" huh????
AUNTIE never uses words an aunt would use like, "my niece," or "this little girl," or "this young girl".....she say "A KID."
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many of whom hold an amazing amount of hate in their hearts.
That's hurt, abandonment, ptsd you are confusing hate with, and you should speak for yourself.
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Someone's playing Troll Patrol :rofl:
Does that make us orcs or goblins?
Aunt, question: How did your daughter react when she was told she'd be getting shipped off to Hell?
(You DID tell her, right?)
I'll be very, very clear here: You have to get her involved in this. Every step of the way. Regardless of her emotional maturity, which is almost certainly retarded by the way her parents treat her. To do otherwise would be criminal. SHE is your biggest asset to prevent her from going.
Further, you must start building her shields, now, whether she goes or not, because this is probably going to get ugly no matter what happens. It's not fun, but anything dealing with child abuse never is...
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Auntie is not sending her daughter, she's trying to stop her sister from sending her niece.
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Auntie is not sending her daughter, she's trying to stop her sister from sending her niece.
Aka "THE KID".
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Kelly Ryan is posting from Washington?
Kelly Ryan is the "Aunt" of a troubled teen who needs help?
Has the desperate Aunt Kelly Ryan given any posters her email or phone contact information?
Fornits posters are being scammed by Izzy. Pay-back-time for Izzy being exposed by the "aunt," Patti Atwoods!
What is this person talking about? It kinda freaks me out........
Long story. Don't worry about it. BTW... to whoever posted this... she isn't Izzy.
What the guest poster is talking about has to do with an "advocate", Isabelle Zehnder, who was exposed as a fraud (she lives in Washington state). Somebody contacted her as an "aunt" to find out if she was working with an educational Consultant, Sue Scheff. Turns out she was. She is pretty irate and is the type to get revenge. I believe you.
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What's up with the questions about the name?.......
After something was written that kind of creeped me out I decided to change my user name. Anyway, I found fornits on a link from a site that provided help and information related to teen programs. I haven't been on any other blogs.
My question is, why does any of that matter?? I'm just trying to help a kid and now I'm thinking this is not the best place to do that. That's kind of sad, I thought this would be a safe and helpful place (mostly it has been).
What the fuck?
that's weird in itself.... I have searched ALOT on the internet and fornits never came up for some unknown reason......... hmmmm.... seems like "the aunt" would be talking to professionals (her atty, etc) instead of baiting people on the internet that she doesn't even know......
just MY opinion..........
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What's up with the questions about the name?.......
After something was written that kind of creeped me out I decided to change my user name. Anyway, I found fornits on a link from a site that provided help and information related to teen programs. I haven't been on any other blogs.
My question is, why does any of that matter?? I'm just trying to help a kid and now I'm thinking this is not the best place to do that. That's kind of sad, I thought this would be a safe and helpful place (mostly it has been).
What the fuck?
that's weird in itself.... I have searched ALOT on the internet and fornits never came up for some unknown reason......... hmmmm.... seems like "the aunt" would be talking to professionals (her atty, etc) instead of baiting people on the internet that she doesn't even know......
just MY opinion..........
Cut it out. I've talked to the lady in PMs. She is legit. If she wasn't she would be trying to trap me somehow, and she hasn't done that at all. Look.. The "IzzyBlaster Brigade" is on this, and we've already determined that this parent probably isn't Izzy. OK. If she was.. It would be better if you let me turn her trap upside-down in my own way. Outing her is much less effective than letting her hang herself and then outing her (See "interesting tidbit..." thread).
Sorry about that Kelly. People here are very skeptical about the people posting here under false pretenses (which happens more than a fair amount).
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Lord Xenu was here!
Feel free to use any information on my blog posted in my signature if you will think it helps.
You may want to go to psy's forum or you can use mine down in the Facility Questions and Answers on fornits. Both are moderated to beat down those pesky anons.
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You are more pesky than any Guest.
You exude pesk.
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I exude sex appeal also and don't you forget it.
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Yes Kelly, what Psy said. The same thing happened when I first came here. I see that it's happened a lot, but probably no more here than somewhere else. Just do your best to ignore it.
I, for one, am glad you came here to get some help. There are a lot of people here, and a wealth of information and resources. Sometimes there's things that you might just want to turn the otherway, but for the most part, there's a lot of information and caring people.
Guest
By the way, there are other sites that link to Fornits, that's how I found you guys, also someone else had told me about you quite a while ago. It's not like you guys are hidden from the public.
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Yes Kelly, what Psy said. The same thing happened when I first came here. I see that it's happened a lot, but probably no more here than somewhere else. Just do your best to ignore it.
I, for one, am glad you came here to get some help. There are a lot of people here, and a wealth of information and resources. Sometimes there's things that you might just want to turn the otherway, but for the most part, there's a lot of information and caring people.
Guest
By the way, there are other sites that link to Fornits, that's how I found you guys, also someone else had told me about you quite a while ago. It's not like you guys are hidden from the public.
In all the searching that I did in late 2006, I never heard of Fornits.... maybe it's how I searched but it never came up. I just now again tried under "teen programs" and everything that came up was PRO program... not good at all.
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I believe it was a referral in the text of someone's post on another board, not a direct link. I'll go back and see, but mostly I delete my history, but I may have put it under favorites. Hard to say. Oh yah, I do know, but I can't say. Sorry.
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Yes Kelly, what Psy said. The same thing happened when I first came here. I see that it's happened a lot, but probably no more here than somewhere else. Just do your best to ignore it.
I, for one, am glad you came here to get some help. There are a lot of people here, and a wealth of information and resources. Sometimes there's things that you might just want to turn the otherway, but for the most part, there's a lot of information and caring people.
Guest
By the way, there are other sites that link to Fornits, that's how I found you guys, also someone else had told me about you quite a while ago. It's not like you guys are hidden from the public.
In all the searching that I did in late 2006, I never heard of Fornits.... maybe it's how I searched but it never came up. I just now again tried under "teen programs" and everything that came up was PRO program... not good at all.
That happens because when you have as much money as many programs do, you can afford to build hundreds of websites pointing to the same place. This is called spamdexing... related to Googlebombing. If you can prove they are all owned by the same people, and successfully inform Google's staff, you can have all their sites sent to "google hell" (the last page of search results).
Sue Scheff simply uses Reputation Defender to do all that dirty work for her (http://http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=653572&mc=1&forum_id=2#8348755).
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http://www.helpatanycost.com/questions.php (http://www.helpatanycost.com/questions.php)
I checked my history and I found a link to fornits here.
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Good for you Auntie.
Psy, I knew that wasn't a watchdog company per se.
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Communicating by PM, huh? No emails, no phone calls? Interesting.
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Communicating by PM, huh? No emails, no phone calls? Interesting.
She hasn't tried to trick me or ask me to do anything I wouldn't do publicly. And I said the "IzzyBrigade" has looked into it already. OK. I, Personally, haven't talked to her on the phone or by email but other may or may not have. Look. For the next few months i'm going to be damn secretive and it will all make sense later. Just please stop with the Izzy stuff. It is derailing this thread. Fornits is easily found on the web via quite a few sites, "blog" is a common misnomer for "discussion forum", emails have been exchanged and she was creeped out by your inane posting so she changed her name (i heard about this in PM before it happened, and there is a good chance another poster informed her not to use her real name). Do I really have to right a fucking dissertation on the matter. She ain't Izzy.
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Now Sandy has shown up. Good tag-team posting.
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I had been told by some on here that I could have input on TB that could be useful........ but if I'm going to get slammed everytime, then I won't...
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Auntie Sandy - yup, that's who it is - playing games with Izzy ... sorry psy, but it does look like Team Zehnder is err ... obsessed?
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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I had been told by some on here that I could have input on TB that could be useful........ but if I'm going to get slammed everytime, then I won't...
Thanks, but there are plenty of people who have input on TB who have not compromised their integrity by supporting CAICA or Isabelle Zehnder, PURE or Sue Scheff.
:flame: :flame: :flame: :flame: :flame: :flame:
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Auntie Sandy - yup, that's who it is - playing games with Izzy ... sorry psy, but it does look like Team Zehnder is err ... obsessed?
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
noooooo... I am not the "aunt" aka "kelly"....
I'm sure Psy knows who it is.....
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Well, just pick up your little marbles and go away, sweetpea Sandy. Maybe Izzy can feature your TB information on one of her famous Blogs, huh?.
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Sandy you lack credibility, and no one cares what you have to say.
You have no information about TB that matters. You are an affront to any survivors of TB on this forum, IMO.
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Maybe Sandy can ask her bosum buddy Izzy if she has seen Deborah's post in the PURE/CAICA/BULLSHIT thread?
Ya know - the one about the "lovely" news guaranteed to "please" coming in the near future?
:wink:
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I don't have to "go away" and the details of my TB info will never be posted in any of her blogs or anyone else's.
As far as "creditability".... that's pretty funny coming from an unknown guest......
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anyways, isn't THIS thread suppose to be about a 15 yr old girl that is on the verge of being sent away????
That poor girl needs to disappear immediately. If it's going to happen next week, there's NO time to do anything else.
And just fyi... I did help my stepdaughter disappear the second time she was going to be sent "away".
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That's how it works around here sweetpea. Don't like it; do away.
Few more posts, and you may qualify for your own fornits picture here girlie. You're becoming almost as famous as your fat-hog friend, Izzy.
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Sandy, "a 15 year old girl needs to disappear?" Now, that sound downright sinister. Whatever are you talking about?
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anyways, isn't THIS thread suppose to be about a 15 yr old girl that is on the verge of being sent away????
That poor girl needs to disappear immediately. If it's going to happen next week, there's NO time to do anything else.
And just fyi... I did help my stepdaughter disappear the second time she was going to be sent "away".
Well kudos to you ... too bad you didn't think enough of some other kid to spare them the potential of being sent to an unregulated program vis a vis referring them to Izzy and Sue Scheff.
:flame: :flame: :flame: :flame: :flame: :flame: :flame:
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Sandy, "a 15 year old girl needs to disappear?" Now, that sound downright sinister. Whatever are you talking about?
Duh...... get her out of the situation however is possible to avoid her being put in a program.....
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anyways, isn't THIS thread suppose to be about a 15 yr old girl that is on the verge of being sent away????
That poor girl needs to disappear immediately. If it's going to happen next week, there's NO time to do anything else.
And just fyi... I did help my stepdaughter disappear the second time she was going to be sent "away".
Well kudos to you ... too bad you didn't think enough of some other kid to spare them the potential of being sent to an unregulated program vis a vis referring them to Izzy and Sue Scheff.
:flame: :flame: :flame: :flame: :flame: :flame: :flame:
"Patti" asked questions that I did not know the answers to, I thought Isabelle might know...... that was IT...
I didn't feel "right" about things that "Patti" said/asked... I deleted her off my page and had no further contact with her...... that can all be verified with Psy or anyone else that has privy to the emails/info.
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Sandy. Are you a self-proclaimed "ADVOCATE" yourself now?
One little referral to Izzy and Sue Scheff/PURE for a program placement; and now you have just taken over?
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Sandy. Are you a self-proclaimed "ADVOCATE" yourself now?
One little referral to Izzy and Sue Scheff/PURE for a program placement; and now you have just taken over?
I am NOT an "advocate". I am a parent who's stepdaughter was unforunate enough to be sent to TB w/o my knowledge beforehand.
I helped in getting her removed, that's all.
I have knowledge of TB. I do not claim anything else.
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Sandy. Are you a self-proclaimed "ADVOCATE" yourself now?
One little referral to Izzy and Sue Scheff/PURE for a program placement; and now you have just taken over?
Ignore Sandy and her sorry excuses. Izzy can't post on Fornits so I guess Sandy is the designated poster.
:rofl:
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Sandy. Are you a self-proclaimed "ADVOCATE" yourself now?
One little referral to Izzy and Sue Scheff/PURE for a program placement; and now you have just taken over?
Ignore Sandy and her sorry excuses. Izzy can't post on Fornits so I guess Sandy is the designated poster.
:rofl:
I am my own person, I do not post for anyone else.
So Fuck you........
guess I can do what everyone else seems to do and post as a "guest" if I want
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From: Sandy
Date: May 6, 2007 9:45 PM
Hi Patti,
ANY of the WWASP schools are a bad idea. They are not schools. It's more on the level of a concentration camp and these kids are being incarcerated. Even after they 18, they are unable to leave because they have to have an airline ticket which most of them are unable to get that arranged. Also, they have a level based program and when it appears that a kid is going to be close to completing the levels, they knock them back down to level one for even a minor infraction.
TB heavily censors incoming & outgoing mail. If the kid writes much about what goes on, the letters never make it out. According to what Desiree has said, and she's not really to the point that she wants to talk about TB, is that the males have it worse than the females. She was there from July 27th to March 18th. She had lost weight but she's a resilient kid that knows how to "go with the flow" when needed.
Yes, Mario, her dad has joint custody and that was how we were able to force the stepgrandmother to take her out. The US Embassy is of no help. Desiree's college fund was used to finance her stay, as is a common practice.
As far as I was able to find out, they really do not have teachers there. The kids pretty much have to do it on their own. Desiree is done w/high school and just waiting to start summer college later this month. Desiree spent some time w/Mario but she is currently staying w/her maternal grandparents to keep her away from the stepgrandmother. Her story is a huge long mess but TB is usually the last resort not the first choice for a kid to be sent to.
If you think your sister would be open to another program, you really should contact Isabelle Zehnder. I mentioned you to her so she won't be surprised if you contact her. She can give you more information on the WWASP schools and I'm sure she would know about some legitimate programs in the U.S. She's great at working as a mediator in family relations.
I will keep you & your nephew in my prayers and hopefully your sister will listen. Does your nephew's father have any custodial rights? If so, is he in the picture?
Please keep in touch and I'm always here if you need to talk. Isabelle probably will be your best bet to try and help.
Sandy
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UH OH.
Seems Sandy needs to STFU instead of telling others to fuck off.
Thanks guest, that pretty much says it all now doesn't it?
Sandy go home.
:rofl:
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NOT that any of you idiots listen but, I was NOT promoting any program. When my kids were in school, anything that had to do with school was called a "program". I had NO IDEA that these places existed until the past year. "Patti" herself had asked about "programs/schools".
Hell, if they had these "programs" when I was younger and if my parents knew about them, I'm sure I would have been sent to one. I do not think ANY kid should be in what y'all are calling "programs".
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From: Sandy
http://www.myspace.com/tiggerredroo (http://www.myspace.com/tiggerredroo)
Date: May 6, 2007 10:26 PM
Flag as Spam or Report Abuse [ ? ]
Subject: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Hello
Body: I'll call Isabelle tomorrow and talk to her. I'm sure she knows of legit programs in the U.S.
Please don't give up on Jason, he really needs your help where he's at.
I'll get back with you after I speak to her.
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Hi Sandy,
I can't imagine interesting my sister in a lawsuit at this stage, when she is not even discussing the fact that enrolling Jason at TB is a grave error.
I am hoping to convince her that TB has a horrible reputation for abusing these students, and that the educational benefits are practically non-existent. It does not appear that Jason is receiving any psychological or clinical sessions, eitherl.
I do know that having Jason back at home is not the answer now. If a summer-type-program could be presented to my sister; with an academic boarding school lined up for the fall; I believe my efforts to get Jason released from TB might be successful. Jason does enjoy working with my horses when he visits here, and he enjoys outdoor camping, hihking, fishing, etc. Are you aware of any type of dude-ranch-type programs, or outdoors summer programs that might offer services to teens with problems?
This would allow time to look at permanent academic boarding schools for the fall semester.
I will work with my sister, as far as the finances, as long as the school is not one of these "behavor modification" programs.
I asked her how she found TB? She talked to a representative from Teen Help, which I believe is the marketing department for these schools. Everything was done over the internet and by telephone.
I asked how she expected to pay these tuitition costs at TB, since Jason's college fund will not be released; and my question was not answered directly. It is my hope that if she can not meet the financial responsibility, that Jason will be "expelled" for non-payment.
I'm sure you can see that I am grasping for straws.
I have no "custodial rights" and do not want to antagonize my sister, and cut off all communications. She is my only contact with Jason, at this point.
Thanks,
Patti
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Read the email sweetpea: Does Patti ask to be REFERRED to any school pr program? No she does not.
----------------- Original Message -----------------
From: Patti
Date: May 3, 2007 9:49 PM
Hello Sandy,
I'm new on MySpace. I really like your pictures and profile.
I read about your "daughter's" experiences at Tranquility Bay. I am so happy that she is safely at home.
My nephew has been at this 'school' Tranquility Bay since January, and I am very concerned about his well-being. I have only had limited news ; since his mother (my sister) has not placed me on the approved contact list, yet.
I was hoping you might help me understand more about this place, and how you were able to help secure your daughter's withdrawal from Tranquility Bay.
My nephew was enrolled out of the country because he ran away from home; which from my viewpoint is somewhat understandable. His home situation is not the best.
I would really appreciate any help you could provide.
I am very worried about my nephew.
Thank you,
Patti Atwoods
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Do you NOT read? She asked about "programs", which I did NOT until recently realized what the term meant........ to me, in the past, the term "program" meant the same as "school". Which this "Patti" used the term in the same context that I would have. I apologize for being so stupid before. I know better now.
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Calling people IDIOTS and telling them to FUCK OFF is not winning you any points here.
Why are you posting here anyway, Sandy? What is your purpose? What do hope to gain? You are being foolish, and some may say you are being used.
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Sandy's stepdaughter was at Tranquility Bay and she claims to not know the meaning of the word, program? Give me a fucking break.
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Calling people IDIOTS and telling them to FUCK OFF is not winning you any points here.
Why are you posting here anyway, Sandy? What is your purpose? What do hope to gain? You are being foolish, and some may say you are being used.
Why do you attack me when I have something to post? Ask yourself the same question, why do you post? what is your purpose?
I THOUGHT I may have useful info to share and have been told by several on here in PM's that I did.
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Sandy's stepdaughter was at Tranquility Bay and she claims to not know the meaning of the word, program? Give me a fucking break.
I did NOT have any input/knowledge of her going there before she went. When we found out where she was and found out what kind of place it was, we did everything we could to get her back to the States. That kind of stuff does not happen overnight.
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Do you NOT read? She asked about "programs", which I did NOT until recently realized what the term meant........ to me, in the past, the term "program" meant the same as "school". Which this "Patti" used the term in the same context that I would have. I apologize for being so stupid before. I know better now.
But ya sure as hell knew who Isabelle was, didn't ya?
Go home Sandy. Ignorance is NOT an excuse when it comes to this industry. Greed and Ignorance is what has gotten kids seriously injured, killed and emotionally scarred for life. You say you know better? But you have not denounced CAICAn or Isabelle Zehnder that I have seen.
:flame: :flame: :flame: :flame:
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Look. For all I know Sandy had no knowledge of what was going on with Izzy. For the record, she apologized via email for sending Patti's imaginary nephew to a "hellhole". People can get tricked, and for the moment, I, for one, am giving her the benefit of the doubt. You think Sandy is the only one who makes mistakes? Look on Maia Szalavitz's page (http://http://www.helpatanycost.com/questions.php) (yes, i emailed her and she said she would take it off). Linking to her is damn dangerous now that we know for a fact she can and will refer kids to Sue (and just wait til you find out who Sue refers to currently). That page is supposed to be a warning to parents.
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Do you NOT read? She asked about "programs", which I did NOT until recently realized what the term meant........ to me, in the past, the term "program" meant the same as "school". Which this "Patti" used the term in the same context that I would have. I apologize for being so stupid before. I know better now.
But ya sure as hell knew who Isabelle was, didn't ya?
Go home Sandy. Ignorance is NOT an excuse when it comes to this industry. Greed and Ignorance is what has gotten kids seriously injured, killed and emotionally scarred for life. You say you know better? But you have not denounced CAICAn or Isabelle Zehnder that I have seen.
:flame: :flame: :flame: :flame:
I did NOT pick Isabelle out, she was already in the picture when I was asked to help. I tried to do the interent search thing and nothing bad turned up on her and nothing that was helpful turned up either. Guess maybe it had to do with how I was searching, don't know.
I would NEVER want any child to go to a program or be sent away. No one deserves that.
I, myself, had problems with my other daughter. I went through hell with her but kept her at home and worked through it. Even homeschooled her after she purposedly kicked out of 2 private schools. I believe you need to stick w/blood and work through everything, for better or worse.
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Look. For all I know Sandy had no knowledge of what was going on with Izzy. For the record, she apologized via email for sending Patti's imaginary nephew to a "hellhole". People can get tricked, and for the moment, I, for one, am giving her the benefit of the doubt. You think Sandy is the only one who makes mistakes? Look on Maia Szalavitz's page (http://http://www.helpatanycost.com/questions.php) (yes, i just emailed her and she said she would take it off). Linking to her is damn dangerous now that we know for a fact she can and will refer kids to programs. That page is supposed to be a warning to parents.
Do what you want psy, what this lady says or doesn't say to YOU in private means nothing to anyone else. Where's the PUBLIC denounciation for CAICA, PURE, Izzy and Sue? Let's see this supposedly contrite lady stand up TO Izzy and her ilk. Maybe then it would be possible to cut her some slack, but frankly, the damage has been done IMO. You can't unring the bell. This lady is not as "stupid" as she would have us all believe. Read the damn emails. It's there in black and white.
Shit, just when I think I've seen or heard it all .... :roll:
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Look. For all I know Sandy had no knowledge of what was going on with Izzy. For the record, she apologized via email for sending Patti's imaginary nephew to a "hellhole". People can get tricked, and for the moment, I, for one, am giving her the benefit of the doubt. You think Sandy is the only one who makes mistakes? Look on Maia Szalavitz's page (http://http://www.helpatanycost.com/questions.php) (yes, i just emailed her and she said she would take it off). Linking to her is damn dangerous now that we know for a fact she can and will refer kids to programs. That page is supposed to be a warning to parents.
Do what you want psy, what this lady says or doesn't say to YOU in private means nothing to anyone else. Where's the PUBLIC denounciation for CAICA, PURE, Izzy and Sue? Let's see this supposedly contrite lady stand up TO Izzy and her ilk. Maybe then it would be possible to cut her some slack, but frankly, the damage has been done IMO. You can't unring the bell. This lady is not as "stupid" as she would have us all believe. Read the damn emails. It's there in black and white.
Shit, just when I think I've seen or heard it all .... :roll:
I do NOT agree with ANYONE that refers any child to any program.
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Look. For all I know Sandy had no knowledge of what was going on with Izzy. For the record, she apologized via email for sending Patti's imaginary nephew to a "hellhole". People can get tricked, and for the moment, I, for one, am giving her the benefit of the doubt. You think Sandy is the only one who makes mistakes? Look on Maia Szalavitz's page (http://http://www.helpatanycost.com/questions.php) (yes, i just emailed her and she said she would take it off). Linking to her is damn dangerous now that we know for a fact she can and will refer kids to programs. That page is supposed to be a warning to parents.
Do what you want psy, what this lady says or doesn't say to YOU in private means nothing to anyone else. Where's the PUBLIC denounciation for CAICA, PURE, Izzy and Sue? Let's see this supposedly contrite lady stand up TO Izzy and her ilk. Maybe then it would be possible to cut her some slack, but frankly, the damage has been done IMO. You can't unring the bell. This lady is not as "stupid" as she would have us all believe. Read the damn emails. It's there in black and white.
Shit, just when I think I've seen or heard it all .... :roll:
I do NOT agree with ANYONE that refers any child to any program.
That's it? Baaaawaaaahahahaaa.
What the hell are you smokin' there?
Psy - you surprise me with your benevolence. The ole' fox in the hen house scenario is one of the oldest tricks in the books, brother.
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Look. For all I know Sandy had no knowledge of what was going on with Izzy. For the record, she apologized via email for sending Patti's imaginary nephew to a "hellhole". People can get tricked, and for the moment, I, for one, am giving her the benefit of the doubt. You think Sandy is the only one who makes mistakes? Look on Maia Szalavitz's page (http://http://www.helpatanycost.com/questions.php) (yes, i just emailed her and she said she would take it off). Linking to her is damn dangerous now that we know for a fact she can and will refer kids to programs. That page is supposed to be a warning to parents.
Do what you want psy, what this lady says or doesn't say to YOU in private means nothing to anyone else. Where's the PUBLIC denounciation for CAICA, PURE, Izzy and Sue? Let's see this supposedly contrite lady stand up TO Izzy and her ilk. Maybe then it would be possible to cut her some slack, but frankly, the damage has been done IMO. You can't unring the bell. This lady is not as "stupid" as she would have us all believe. Read the damn emails. It's there in black and white.
Shit, just when I think I've seen or heard it all .... :roll:
I do NOT agree with ANYONE that refers any child to any program.
That's it? Baaaawaaaahahahaaa.
What the hell are you smokin' there?
Psy - you surprise me with your benevolence. The ole' fox in the hen house scenario is one of the oldest tricks in the books, brother.
Ever been accused of something you didn't do because other people were just so "sure" but had no proof? What I say about Izzy and Sue I say because I have proof. Sandy could easily have made a mistake.
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Don't lay down with dogs and come back bitchin' about those fleas ... that ain't no denounciation, it was a chicken shit bone thrown out to save somebody's ass. You've lost your objectivity psy, hopefully not for long, because that would be a true loss.
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I would NEVER put/send/refer or otherwise want any child to be in a hellhole program. Isabelle was involved BEFORE I was asked to assist and had any knowledge where my stepdaughter was.
I searched the internet trying to pull info before and while dealing with all this. I had NOTHING negative that pulled up. I'm SURE I am not the only parent to experience this.
I am sorry that I gave "Patti" info. I have since removed any TB off my myspace page and it's private now. It will never happen again with me.
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I would NEVER put/send/refer or otherwise want any child to be in a hellhole program. Isabelle was involved BEFORE I was asked to assist and had any knowledge where my stepdaughter was.
I searched the internet trying to pull info before and while dealing with all this. I had NOTHING negative that pulled up. I'm SURE I am not the only parent to experience this.
I am sorry that I gave "Patti" info. I have since removed any TB off my myspace page and it's private now. It will never happen again with me.
Do you or do you not support CAICA?
Let's start there.
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Don't lay down with dogs and come back bitchin' about those fleas ... that ain't no denounciation, it was a chicken shit bone thrown out to save somebody's ass. You've lost your objectivity psy, hopefully not for long, because that would be a true loss.
Objectivity? I haven't made a judgement one way of the other. Frankly, I am leaning in your direction, however, I am not 100% sure. Objectivity is looking at all sides of things. People are innocent until being proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. Is it reasonable that she could be fooled by a false advocate who DOESN'T show up on Google becuase she uses reputation defender to cover her tracks? Yes! In any case, if she was referring for Izzy, she sure as hell isn't going to be doing it anymore, in which case, she is no longer a danger and there is no point to attack her further.
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Well then: Sandy need to step up to the plate and denouce Isabelle Zehnder and CACICA and Sue Scheff and PURE by name. NOT simply say she is against "anyone who refers to programs."Why? Because Isabelle Zehnder denies to this day that she refers children and their parents to programs.It is a play with words.
Sandy continues to support Isabelle Zehnder, and you are being played for a fool, Psy.
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quote]
Do you or do you not support CAICA?
Let's start there.[/quote]
I do NOT support ANY entity that promotes any child going to a program.
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quote]
Do you or do you not support CAICA?
Let's start there.
I do NOT support ANY entity that promotes any child going to a program.[/quote]
Just can't say the word can ya ... C A I C A.
Case closed.
:roll:
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Well then: Sandy need to step up to the plate and denouce Isabelle Zehnder and CACICA and Sue Scheff and PURE by name. NOT simply say she is against "anyone who refers to programs."Why? Because Isabelle Zehnder denies to this day that she refers children and their parents to programs.It is a play with words.
Sandy continues to support Isabelle Zehnder, and you are being played for a fool, Psy.
I do not support CAICA, Isabelle or anyone else. I do not even know who Sue is, only what I have read on here about her.
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Sandy will not answer the direct question, will she?
Because Isabelle Zehnder lies when she says she does not refer children to programs. She has admitted she refer a child to an UN-NAMED program.
Isabelled Zehnder also referred Patti Atwoods to Sue Scheff/Pure and to Sunrise Adolescent Transports.
Sandy does support Isabelle Zehnder, CAICA.
That is clear.
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Sandy will not answer the direct question, will she?
Because Isabelle Zehnder lies when she says she does not refer children to programs. She has admitted she refer a child to an UN-NAMED program.
Isabelled Zehnder also referred Patti Atwoods to Sue Scheff/Pure and to Sunrise Adolescent Transports.
Sandy does support Isabelle Zehnder, CAICA.
That is clear.
Did I NOT just answer that?
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Well then: Sandy need to step up to the plate and denouce Isabelle Zehnder and CACICA and Sue Scheff and PURE by name. NOT simply say she is against "anyone who refers to programs."Why? Because Isabelle Zehnder denies to this day that she refers children and their parents to programs.It is a play with words.
Sandy continues to support Isabelle Zehnder, and you are being played for a fool, Psy.
Guest, it's not gonna happen.
Smart as psy is - he seems to have taken the middle road which is never wise in a game with the stakes as high as this one is.
I'm hoping he's just had a long day ... tomorrow he may see things more clearer.
Sleep well psy. You are one of the good guys but I fear that soft spot is your archilles heel. Buck up buddy!
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Well then: Sandy need to step up to the plate and denouce Isabelle Zehnder and CACICA and Sue Scheff and PURE by name. NOT simply say she is against "anyone who refers to programs."Why? Because Isabelle Zehnder denies to this day that she refers children and their parents to programs.It is a play with words.
Sandy continues to support Isabelle Zehnder, and you are being played for a fool, Psy.
Guest, it's not gonna happen.
Smart as psy is - he seems to have taken the middle road which is never wise in a game with the stakes as high as this one is.
I'm hoping he's just had a long day ... tomorrow he may see things more clearer.
Sleep well psy. You are one of the good guys but I fear that soft spot is your archilles heel. Buck up buddy!
Do you NOT see the above post? I do NOT support CAICA, Isabelle or anyone else..............
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Well then: Sandy need to step up to the plate and denouce Isabelle Zehnder and CACICA and Sue Scheff and PURE by name. NOT simply say she is against "anyone who refers to programs."Why? Because Isabelle Zehnder denies to this day that she refers children and their parents to programs.It is a play with words.
Sandy continues to support Isabelle Zehnder, and you are being played for a fool, Psy.
She isn't on Izzy's myspace. Go flame the Space Cookies... they haven't yet removed her.
I am not being played for anything. I gave her information via email, she sent back an apology. That was about the limit of her "playing" me. What danger is she? Does she have a website referring parents to programs? NO Could she still be referring on behalf of Izzy? Hypothetically, yes, but it won't matter soon because her hypothetical employer is about to be out of a job (watch.... i am no fool). Meanwhile, there are better fish to fry, such as this Jesus-freak hellhole this thread was started about, and there is a kid in imminent danger of getting sent there.
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Err ... let's qualify support. Do you consider Isabelle a "friend" or foe?
As for Scheffie - not knowing who she is? That's rich. I read the emails and you didn't seem confused or even curious about who Sue or Marie are.
Come on Sandy. Let's just call it quits on this dumb ass game.
It's assinine to expect others to suspend their critical thinking skills.
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Err ... let's qualify support. Do you consider Isabelle a "friend" or foe?
As for Scheffie - not knowing who she is? That's rich. I read the emails and you didn't seem confused or even curious about who Sue or Marie are.
Come on Sandy. Let's just call it quits on this dumb ass game.
It's assinine to expect others to suspend their critical thinking skills.
I consider Isabelle an aquaintance. Someone that helped when she was needed to. I have millions of aquaintances, I think everyone does. My family used her as a mediator, she was good at that in this particular instance. How do you view people that you have done business with?
As far as Sue, Isabelle said she was a friend of hers. I did not have any contact with her.
I have since been on the internet reading up on a lot of things. I have already apologized, what more do you want?
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Well then: Sandy need to step up to the plate and denouce Isabelle Zehnder and CACICA and Sue Scheff and PURE by name. NOT simply say she is against "anyone who refers to programs."Why? Because Isabelle Zehnder denies to this day that she refers children and their parents to programs.It is a play with words.
Sandy continues to support Isabelle Zehnder, and you are being played for a fool, Psy.
Guest, it's not gonna happen.
Smart as psy is - he seems to have taken the middle road which is never wise in a game with the stakes as high as this one is.
I'm hoping he's just had a long day ... tomorrow he may see things more clearer.
Sleep well psy. You are one of the good guys but I fear that soft spot is your archilles heel. Buck up buddy!
Middle road? Middle ROAD?!?!? Do I look like fucking Kevin August to you? Where some people use a bulldozer, I use a scalpel. Pm me and i'll explain what my strategy is.
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Well then: Sandy need to step up to the plate and denouce Isabelle Zehnder and CACICA and Sue Scheff and PURE by name. NOT simply say she is against "anyone who refers to programs."Why? Because Isabelle Zehnder denies to this day that she refers children and their parents to programs.It is a play with words.
Sandy continues to support Isabelle Zehnder, and you are being played for a fool, Psy.
She isn't on Izzy's myspace. Go flame the Space Cookies... they haven't yet removed her.
I am not being played for anything. I gave her information via email, she sent back an apology. That was about the limit of her "playing" me. What danger is she? Does she have a website referring parents to programs? NO Could she still be referring on behalf of Izzy? Hypothetically, yes, but it won't matter soon because her hypothetical employer is about to be out of a job (watch.... i am no fool). Meanwhile, there are better fish to fry, such as this Jesus-freak hellhole this thread was started about, and there is a kid in imminent danger of getting sent there.
THe Space Cookies have more to gain by the publicity than they do taking a stand for their own comrades. Sad situation, IMO.
As for the "KID" I don't believet this is a real scenario either but even so, it doesn't matter b/c as TSW said, this shit happens all the time.
Kudos to Sandy if she isn't referring to Izzy anymore but I am not sure I understand what you mean about her (Izzy's) hypothetical employer being out of business changing anything. Izzy will just reinvent herself as she appears to have done since she first jumped on the "advocacy" bandwagon, IMO.
Again, careful with the high hopes and/or illusionary (wishful) thinking. Keep that hinkey meter ON 24/7.
:wink:
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Well then: Sandy need to step up to the plate and denouce Isabelle Zehnder and CACICA and Sue Scheff and PURE by name. NOT simply say she is against "anyone who refers to programs."Why? Because Isabelle Zehnder denies to this day that she refers children and their parents to programs.It is a play with words.
Sandy continues to support Isabelle Zehnder, and you are being played for a fool, Psy.
Guest, it's not gonna happen.
Smart as psy is - he seems to have taken the middle road which is never wise in a game with the stakes as high as this one is.
I'm hoping he's just had a long day ... tomorrow he may see things more clearer.
Sleep well psy. You are one of the good guys but I fear that soft spot is your archilles heel. Buck up buddy!
I don't think Psy has an issue with being a softy. He is mature and patient. If Sandy does have an agenda.. it will come out in time. I do have one question for Sandy... why do you and Isabelle Zehnder write "love" or "love you" in your salutation? Is Isabelle Zehnder a relative or old friend? I know you said she was already in the picture.. but, I found it odd you would sign your letters with "love". Please don't receive this as a menacing question... I am truely curious.
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!
I don't think Psy has an issue with being a softy. He is mature and patient. If Sandy does have an agenda.. it will come out in time. I do have one question for Sandy... why do you and Isabelle Zehnder write "love" or "love you" in your salutation? Is Isabelle Zehnder a relative or old friend? I know you said she was already in the picture.. but, I found it odd you would sign your letters with "love". Please don't receive this as a menacing question... I am truely curious.
She was helping my family through a VERY difficult time. And she did help in our situation. I was on the phone with her ALOT, I was very grateful that my family had her to help at that time.
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Kudos to Sandy if she isn't referring to Izzy anymore but I am not sure I understand what you mean about her (Izzy's) hypothetical employer being out of business changing anything. Izzy will just reinvent herself as she appears to have done since she first jumped on the "advocacy" bandwagon, IMO.
Again, careful with the high hopes and/or illusionary (wishful) thinking. Keep that hinkey meter ON 24/7.
:wink:
Fine.. don't believe me. Sue and Izzy will be utterly destroyed by this year's end (even you might be shocked). There will be no spinning the nuke that is about to fall on their asses. This is real, and not wishful thinking.
Edit: goodnight
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Isabelle's email assured Sandy that either Marie or Sue would answer the phone. Isabelle showed no reason to explain WHO Marie or Sue was to Sandy. Anyone reading this email can easily assume that Sandy well-knows who Marie and Sue are.
And people do not casually sign off with "LOVE" to casual acquantances.
Your myspace was not PRIVATE for a long time Sandy---and it was read by many. Your relationship with Isabelle Zender did not appear to be merely "casual." It contained messages that expressed a close friendship that included talk of personal visits, intense notes of gratitude, mutual fondness; and familiarity between family members.
Your seeminly dishonesty here is raises many questions as to your motives for posting here.
These postings about an "Aunt" who might live in Washington, who may have a niece--- who MAY be placed in some faith-based program by her mother appears to be very suspect.
Sandy, if you are playing some role in these postings, then you are being used in a silly ploy that serves no purpose.
The fact remains: your referred Patti to Isabelle Zehnder; who referred her on to Sue Scheff/Pure for placement in a program. You pretending to not know who Scheff is is utter nonsense.
----------------- Original Message -----------------
From: Isabelle
Date: May 8, 2007 5:54 PM
Hi Sandy,
I e-mailed her my friend's name and website to contact for safer programs. Have her go to www.helpyourteens.com (http://www.helpyourteens.com) and call the 800 number (which is 800-730-7260). Either Marie or Sue should answer, both have experience in finding safer alternatives.
Please ask Patty if she received my e-mail, would you? I included all that info in there. She can also call me if she needs to - 360-903-3951.
Take care, hope all goes well with her nephew. And no - we don't want to see what happens if there's no payment.
Any word on how Desiree's doing?
Love, Isabelle
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Kudos to Sandy if she isn't referring to Izzy anymore but I am not sure I understand what you mean about her (Izzy's) hypothetical employer being out of business changing anything. Izzy will just reinvent herself as she appears to have done since she first jumped on the "advocacy" bandwagon, IMO.
Again, careful with the high hopes and/or illusionary (wishful) thinking. Keep that hinkey meter ON 24/7.
:wink:
Fine.. don't believe me. Sue and Izzy will be utterly destroyed by this year's end (even you might be shocked). There will be no spinning the nuke that is about to fall on their asses. This is real, and not wishful thinking.
Edit: goodnight
Fair enough. It's clear you have reason to believe as you do, and I accept that as I know you are a person of integrity.
What I don't believe is anything that comes out of the mouths of persons who are even remotely associated with CAICA, PURE, Sue, Izzy etc.
Sweet dreams!
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As for the "KID" I don't believet this is a real scenario either but even so, it doesn't matter b/c as TSW said, this shit happens all the time.
Could you remind me of what I was refering to when I said that?
Also...
What does Dizzy, Sandy, and anyone else involved with Izzygate have to do with this thread? You know I'm down with flaming Izzy any day of the week, but this thread is about keeping a kid, real or imaginary, out of some nutbar X-tian fundie program.
Now could we please keep on track and recognize that there is a right time and place for anything?
If this is real and Aunt Kelly gives a damn she will go where she can get some advice. She already knows Psy has a forum and my own forum here on fornits has been offered. No one who cares about her niece as much as Aunt Kelly claims to is going to let some flaming drive her away.
If she really wants help she will go and find it.
Now what makes me believe it might be real, and I haven't talked to the lady at all, but normally trolls tend to pick programs that are more known.
I'm not saying that everyone who comes on fornits asking for help in keeping someone out of a big name program is a troll. I have seen a bit of a trend.
So if something needs to be discussed, discussed some more, and discussed even more about Izzy why don't we kick that up into the PURE Bullshit forum and leave this thread to its intended topic?
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Wow, yet another flare-up on the Troubled Teen forum, with no shortage of digression and mudslinging...
Time to break out the Preparation H.
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:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Some things bring the burnt ass out in everyone.
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Kudos to Sandy if she isn't referring to Izzy anymore but I am not sure I understand what you mean about her (Izzy's) hypothetical employer being out of business changing anything. Izzy will just reinvent herself as she appears to have done since she first jumped on the "advocacy" bandwagon, IMO.
Again, careful with the high hopes and/or illusionary (wishful) thinking. Keep that hinkey meter ON 24/7.
:wink:
Fine.. don't believe me. Sue and Izzy will be utterly destroyed by this year's end (even you might be shocked). There will be no spinning the nuke that is about to fall on their asses. This is real, and not wishful thinking.
Edit: goodnight
Fair enough. It's clear you have reason to believe as you do, and I accept that as I know you are a person of integrity.
What I don't believe is anything that comes out of the mouths of persons who are even remotely associated with CAICA, PURE, Sue, Izzy etc.
Sweet dreams!
Sure thing. Just contact me privately and if I know who you are, i'll explain enough is going on.
gotta go to an appointment. be back tonite.
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You guys are cute when you think people want your advice. :D
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The pastor from the school is now refusing the placement of my niece in his program. He was very angry and stated a "breach of trust" has occured. That "breach of trust" was me calling and trying to get information. Makes you wonder what he has to hide. Anyway, I am so relieved!!!!!!!!
Thanks for all of your input.
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I know you think its over at this point - but I doubt you'll find that's the case. You should still try and educate your sister as to the dangers of sending a child off to a program. The books already mentioned ( an American Gulag and Jesus Land ) are important, and I hope you will get copies and share them. You should also get a copy of, Help at Any Cost: how the Troubled Teen Industry Cons Parents and Hurts Kids.
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But Aunt Kelly, what will this mother do about the condoms, and your nieces unacceptable behaviors just because this one faith-based program won't take her because of your interfering actions?
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Damn, if that's all it takes to keep a kid out of these places, let's all start calling programs claiming to be a relative and wanting to know more about the program.
We ought to be able to do at least 50 a day.
Not counting WWASPS and ASPEN, which would have to be divided into regions.
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But Aunt Kelly, what will this mother do about the condoms, and your nieces unacceptable behaviors just because this one faith-based program won't take her because of your interfering actions?
Do about the condoms? What do you suggest she "do" about the condoms? Hell, I'm glad to hear she's being smart and using them!!
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Aunt, I feel relieved as I am sure most of us are. Good luck to your niece, I hope your sister can just love her, and talk to her, and not think of sending her anywhere, Kids need their family's. Sending them off sends the message "we don't want you, cause you are broken", on the most part most teenagers, turn out all right on their own.
Religion is something each person has to find for themselves, forced it does not do any good.
good luck to you too.
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Hopefully Izzy's friend, Sandy was being honest when she said she made her myspace private. Sandy's public disclosure of step-daughter's complicated relationship to the Lucille Ball, Desi Arnaz family adds nothing of value to the discussion of this girl experience at Tranquilty Bay.
Surely, the Lucille Ball family does not approve of having Sandy disclose how this girl is related as a family member of this famous family from the result of an affair as a "love child." And Sandy's relationship as the EX-WIFE and STEP-MOTHER certainly seems to give her little right to publish such disclosure.
Sandy's myspace was public; and this account was available to the public; and disclosing this girl's name and her family history seems to have been self-serving and lacking in responsiblity.
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Sandy's myspace was public; and this account was available to the public; and disclosing this girl's name and her family history seems to have been self-serving and lacking in responsiblity.
Since when have we ever known Sue/Izzy/Sandy or anyone else associated with them be anything but self-serving and lacking in responsibility?
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But Aunt Kelly, what will this mother do about the condoms, and your nieces unacceptable behaviors just because this one faith-based program won't take her because of your interfering actions?
What would you suggest "guest" ?
Why is it so horrible that a 15 year old has condoms? So horrible she must be expelled from her family? Wouldn't it be worse if she didn't have them - but needed them? Apparently, she has decided sex will be a part of her life prior to marriage. Maybe this isn't the best choice. Maybe it isn't in keeping with God's plan for her life. But we all have to make our own choices. Isn't that a major principal of the Judaic-Christian faith? Free will?
And aren't believers instructed to provoke not their children to wrath? [Ephesians 6 vs 4] And aren't we also instructed to be patient, gentle teachers of the word? [second Timothy 2 vs 23-26] Do you think abandoning a child to the care, or abuse, of strangers, a proper Christian parents response to finding a 15 year old with condoms?
Do you think it wise to send a young girl into the care of a strange man living in an isolated situation? Do you really believe she would be safer from sexual exploitation in such a situation? You think this b/c he says he is a Christian? You think he is free of the temptations of the flesh? You think it impossible he would succumb to such temptation? And how do you think it might effect a young girl to be abandoned by her "Christian" parents, into the hands of a "Christian" man, who then exploits her for his own wicked pleasure?
Or, if he does resist the temptation of having young and vulnerable girls at his disposal; would he take his frustrations out on them in other ways? Do you not think it possible these girls would be assaulted in other ways? It is in fact all to likely. And what do you think this might do to a young girls trust in God and family?
Do you not think a more Christian response on the part of her parents would be prayer for their daughter? Do they not trust God to be faithful and hear a mother's prayer? Do they not feel that they as parents have a responsibility to this child, even when she is less than perfect? Are they so very perfect? Where they perfectly obedient and mature in their faith at 15?
Ask yourself, did Christ fashion a whip and lash out at the woman at the well? No, He didn't. He spoke honestly, but kindly with her; and told her He was the Messiah her people were waiting for (before He told anyone else, I might add) despite her fornications.
Did He beat and condemn the woman caught in adultery, that the crowd threw down in the dust at His feet? No, He didn't. Instead, He seems to have rebuked the crowd; for what ever He wrote in the sand, caused them to fall silent and scatter. I have always felt it was a list of names - names perhaps, of those the men in the crowd had "known". The woman He forgave on the spot, telling her to go and sin no more. And I expect she did just that - because of the love and compassion she had shown her. Had he beat her and cursed her as a whore, I've little doubt that's just what she would have remained.
Now, ask yourself "guest", Who did He lash out at? Who did He soundly rebuke and condemn? I'll tell you: Teachers of "religion". The Proud Hypocrites; those who stood piously praying on street corners to be seen by the crowds as righteous and holy, while they plotted to rob widows and orphans. Those who would stone a poor woman to death for fornication; all the while perhaps, knowing how often they themselves had "known" her, or another like her.
Maybe this girls parents should spend some time in prayer and fasting - and think on these things.
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Sandy has your friend Isabelle posted under these names:
SIDHE SHEE, THE AUNT, KELLY RYAN?
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But Aunt Kelly, what will this mother do about the condoms, and your nieces unacceptable behaviors just because this one faith-based program won't take her because of your interfering actions?
10/10. Excellent work on CG, there! :lol:
The pastor from the school is now refusing the placement of my niece in his program. He was very angry and stated a "breach of trust" has occured.
LOL, owned.. wait, in effectively zero hits? :-? Programmies generally don't give up this easily. Did he assume that you were shielding her mind? That's the only explanation that makes sense, unless you believe in the collective psychic ownaj of Fornits zeroing in on this assclown like a bug under a magnifying glass...
Damn, if that's all it takes to keep a kid out of these places, let's all start calling programs claiming to be a relative and wanting to know more about the program.
We ought to be able to do at least 50 a day.
AGREED!
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I just called the place, and they said they hadn't heard from anybody's auntie in the last couple of days.
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I just called the place, and they said they hadn't heard from anybody's auntie in the last couple of days.
:roll:
What were you expecting, them to go "Oh yeah, this woman just called us, verbally kicked our ass, and we were so humiliated by it we abandoned our attempts to bring her niece in"?
And just what did you ask, "Hi, I was wondering, did someone's aunt call you and prevent a kid from getting sent here?"
Common sense please.
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Don't roll your eyes at me you piece of shit motherfucker. If you tried that in my face I'd rip your fucking throat out. Fuckin' internet tough guys, what can you do?
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Don't roll your eyes at me you piece of shit motherfucker. If you tried that in my face I'd rip your fucking throat out. Fuckin' internet tough guys, what can you do?
:rofl:
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The pastor from the school is now refusing the placement of my niece in his program. He was very angry and stated a "breach of trust" has occured. That "breach of trust" was me calling and trying to get information. Makes you wonder what he has to hide. Anyway, I am so relieved!!!!!!!!
Thanks for all of your input.
Glad to hear, just that your sister might not let you in on any future plans to send your niece to a program. Just got to be careful.
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If all else fails wrap a bottle cap in a piece of corned beef and make your sister eat it.
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Glad to hear, just that your sister might not let you in on any future plans to send your niece to a program. Just got to be careful.
Quote for truth. One prevention is *usually* enough to put an end to it, but you can never be sure...
It's the whole concept that you must kill in your sister's mind, and that's a tall order.
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Hence the corned beef suggestion.
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Izzy errr.... Aunt Kelly and Sandy,STFU
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(http://http://mocoloco.com/art/archives/red_bow_mar_05.jpg)
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Don't roll your eyes at me you piece of shit motherfucker. If you tried that in my face I'd rip your fucking throat out. Fuckin' internet tough guys, what can you do?
:rofl:
:rofl: :rofl:
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This is kind of funny. I guess what goes around, comes around???? Patti Atwoods, then the Aunt? Is everyone just going to continue to waste one anothers time here, or what?
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Isabelle Zehnder's emails to Patti Atwoods exposed Isabelle's as a so-called advocate who refers to Sue Scheff/Pure and to Sunrise Adolescent Transport. Not a waste of time, at all.
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Julie, with the recently passed law, she would need passports to enter Canada. Same thing with Mexico. Mexico might have required passports previous to the recently passed law.
Actually, crossing the border overland to Canada, you don't need a passport till next January.
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God this thread sure took a different direction. Gone one day and it all goes to hell.
Anyway, GUEST, I am NOT Isabelle. I saw your inference on page 16. Take me out of that formula, and keep me out of that crap altogether.
You're taking away from what this thread was intended.
Edit: If you do this with every new parent, aunt, or whoever is coming here for help, they are going to stop coming here, and won't take you seriously, and you'll be to blame if they place their kid in a "PROGRAM". Just my opinion. And I am not forcefeeding my opinion either, like some people on here do.
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You're taking away from what this thread was intended. If you do this with every new parent, aunt, or whoever is coming here for help, they are going to stop coming here, and won't take you seriously, and you'll be to blame if they place their kid in a "PROGRAM".
If anything, fornits posters are the most responsible more than anyone in this industry. If fornits did not exist surely this industry would shut down overnight and all the kids would go home and have ice-cream sundaes with their ignorant parents.
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God thus thread sure took a different direction. Gone one day and it all goes to hell.
Anyway, GUEST, I am NOT Isabelle. I saw your inference on page 16. Take me out of that formula, and keep me out of that crap altogether.
You're taking away from what this thread was intended. If you do this with every new parent, aunt, or whoever is coming here for help, they are going to stop coming here, and won't take you seriously, and you'll be to blame if they place their kid in a "PROGRAM".
Who the Fuck are you? A guest with a tin hat (sidhe shee) that thinks you know something about what Fornits is and/or does? You showed up about the time Izzy's ass was in the slinger and that fictious parent came on board claiming it was HER mistake giving Izzy the phone number to Midwest Academy. Yeah right. Talk about crap!!! Take a hike.
:flame: :flame: :flame: :flame: :flame: :flame:
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God thus thread sure took a different direction. Gone one day and it all goes to hell.
Anyway, GUEST, I am NOT Isabelle. I saw your inference on page 16. Take me out of that formula, and keep me out of that crap altogether.
You're taking away from what this thread was intended. If you do this with every new parent, aunt, or whoever is coming here for help, they are going to stop coming here, and won't take you seriously, and you'll be to blame if they place their kid in a "PROGRAM".
Izzy has been proven to tell non-truths. Claiming you are not Isabelle is meaningless. IZZY would probably say the same thing.
:rofl:
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If it suits you, think whatever you want, oh great detective of Fornits. I have better things to do than debate this issue on this thread. Like I said, keep me out of it!
Edited to add: And who the Hell are you? Posting under Guest. How does anyone know who the hell you are? Maybe you snuck under fornits radar! Whose to say you aren't someone whose here to cause trouble? You think you're the fucking God of Fornits? Piss off.
At least when I post under Guest, I say so.
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If it suits you, think whatever you want, oh great detective of Fornits. I have better things to do than debate this issue on this thread. Like I said, keep me out of it!
:rofl:
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Sidhe Shee has proven that they aren't Izzy by writing short and to the point posts. Same could be said of "the Aunt". If they were Izzy in disguise, their post would be 53 paragraphs long, with 35 sentences per paragraph, and 35 words per sentence.
Can't help but wonder why this thread had to be high-jacked with yet more CaCa bull shit. There is an entire forum for this business. The Aunt seems genuine enough to me. She seems like the commonly found concerned family member. But frankly, even if she were a total poser, she has provided a thread where important maters can be discussed; and she has brought to our attention yet another obscure little program never before heard of. This is all to the good, isn't it? Don't we want to know about these places? Don't we want to talk about them?
Why must the value of the discussion be watered down with Izzy crap? Couldn't those concerned, have taken their concern to the CaCa / PURE bullshit forum and start a thread over there? Any chance this thread can be cleaned up of this bull shit, and have it moved to CACa's forum?
Really people - The world doesn't revolve around Izzy or Sue. Why should we?
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Alright, rope me in.
Bubba Breath. Is that the best you can do?
(http://[img]http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z167/cookiecutter_bucket/MyEmoticons-com__finger.gif)[/img]
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It's been over for two days, and the post-thread analysis continues. :rofl:
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Sidhe Shee has proven that they aren't Izzy by writing short and to the point posts. Same could be said of "the Aunt". If they were Izzy in disguise, their post would be 53 paragraphs long, with 35 sentences per paragraph, and 35 words per sentence.
Can't help but wonder why this thread had to be high-jacked with yet more CaCa bull shit. There is an entire forum for this business. The Aunt seems genuine enough to me. She seems like the commonly found concerned family member. But frankly, even if she were a total poser, she has provided a thread where important maters can be discussed; and she has brought to our attention yet another obscure little program never before heard of. This is all to the good, isn't it? Don't we want to know about these places? Don't we want to talk about them?
Why must the value of the discussion be watered down with Izzy crap? Couldn't those concerned, have taken their concern to the CaCa / PURE bullshit forum and start a thread over there? Any chance this thread can be cleaned up of this bull shit, and have it moved to CACa's forum?
Really people - The world doesn't revolve around Izzy or Sue. Why should we?
Some people just don't have the kahunas to admit they done been scammed. You never "talked" to The Aunt, or this tin hat poster SiheShee and yet because they bring up a hellhole program, we should all be grateful? That's the kind of faulty thinking the ex-WWASPS parents are so infamous for. If we get wwasps, who cares about PURE or it's clone, CAICA? Let's not make waves. :roll:
:roll:
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It is a little confusing with all these programs and watch-organisations. Here is a link to a page on my webpage, with some programs and the organizations, which have listed them as dangerous places.
http://www.secretprisonsforteens.dk/US_Main.htm (http://www.secretprisonsforteens.dk/US_Main.htm)
How big is the industry anyhow?
Where do we set the borders between programs as defined here and real closed psychiatric ward?
A relative quiet player in the industry - Universal Health Services (owner of Provo Canyon School) - has a lot of facilities spread out over the country - see: http://www.uhsinc.com/hospitals.php (http://www.uhsinc.com/hospitals.php)
Some of them are for court order inmates buth they also takes private referred inmates. Because some facilities hide in a wakuum between being a school, a mental hospital and just a private prison, it is hard to locate them and list them. So perhaps we need to send all posters on this forum out into their local community and investigate if there is a program just around the corner.
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I just read through this entire thread. If I am reading it right, all it took was one phone call from the Aunt and the whole deal went sour? And we never hear from them again and that's it? What are you all fighting about, the poster knew the program was bad coming in, nobody here did anything other than offer the same old fornits advice- or am I missing something?
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I just read through this entire thread. If I am reading it right, all it took was one phone call from the Aunt and the whole deal went sour? And we never hear from them again and that's it? What are you all fighting about, the poster knew the program was bad coming in, nobody here did anything other than offer the same old fornits advice- or am I missing something?
Turns out the poster (Auntie) was here to set up Fornits for being impotent helping parents or relatives in distress ... unlike CAICA who helps kids and saves lives. LOLS.
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Sidhe Shee has proven that they aren't Izzy by writing short and to the point posts. Same could be said of "the Aunt". If they were Izzy in disguise, their post would be 53 paragraphs long, with 35 sentences per paragraph, and 35 words per sentence.
Can't help but wonder why this thread had to be high-jacked with yet more CaCa bull shit. There is an entire forum for this business. The Aunt seems genuine enough to me. She seems like the commonly found concerned family member. But frankly, even if she were a total poser, she has provided a thread where important maters can be discussed; and she has brought to our attention yet another obscure little program never before heard of. This is all to the good, isn't it? Don't we want to know about these places? Don't we want to talk about them?
Why must the value of the discussion be watered down with Izzy crap? Couldn't those concerned, have taken their concern to the CaCa / PURE bullshit forum and start a thread over there? Any chance this thread can be cleaned up of this bull shit, and have it moved to CACa's forum?
Really people - The world doesn't revolve around Izzy or Sue. Why should we?
Some people just don't have the kahunas to admit they done been scammed. You never "talked" to The Aunt, or this tin hat poster SiheShee and yet because they bring up a hellhole program, we should all be grateful? That's the kind of faulty thinking the ex-WWASPS parents are so infamous for. If we get wwasps, who cares about PURE or it's clone, CAICA? Let's not make waves. :roll:
:roll:
Who said no one cares about the problem of P.U.R.E. and CACA? But must everything be about them always?
And how is it you know who I have talked to, or haven't? I really do not think you know any such thing, :roll:
And if Fornits has been scammed by The Aunt, (I don't think so - but. . .) my point was, even so, we have had the opportunity to learn about yet another little problem, that needs some attention, out in the Indiana boonies; and we have had some interesting dialog; But that the thread was sadly high-jacked by the CaCa & P.U.R.E. obsessed.
As I pointed out, these two problems have an entire forum of their own. I suggest that their issues be hashed out over there. They are not the only problem, any more than WWASPS or Whitmore or Thayer are the only problem.
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But Aunt Kelly, what will this mother do about the condoms, and your nieces unacceptable behaviors just because this one faith-based program won't take her because of your interfering actions?
If my mid-age teenager was carrying condoms, I'd consider it at least 50% likely that locker room peer pressure was leading her to imply she was having sex.
If she was having sex, I'd try to find out what was wrong. Girls have sex because they're lonely, or feel worthless, or are being abused in a relationship, or are being pressured, or are being manipulated by an adult loser trolling for high school girls, or other reasons mostly unrelated to genuine adult female lust.
Promiscuity always comes from "issues." Issues don't get fixed at Programs, they get more broken.
"True love" takes a whole different strategy, but "true love" with her using condoms is not particularly dangerous to her.
If he's a rotten snake, see "issues" above.
Julie
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What's the deal with Provo Canyon?
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Provo Canyon School is interesting because without it, there would be no WWASP.
The founder of WWASP worked there until the school was shut down. It later reopened and a lot of "well-adjusted" youth haved stayed there (Most known properly Paris Hilton around 1997).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provo_Canyon_School (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provo_Canyon_School)
It was also the school, who got the person behind www.Heal-online.org (http://www.Heal-online.org) started. See: http://www.heal-online.org/provocases.htm (http://www.heal-online.org/provocases.htm)
Other survivors are after the school. See: http://groups.myspace.com/isurvivedpcs (http://groups.myspace.com/isurvivedpcs)
Some things must have changed recently. A student staying there has myspace connection and they can use it - how?
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This thread is BULLSHIT! SUCKER! :rofl:
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WTF is TT?
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WTF is TT?
::huh::
tt
Profile
Location: fruitvale TX
Hometown: fruitvale TX
Zip Code: 75127
Country: UNITED STATES
Gender: Female
Marital Status: Divorced
Nos. of Children: 2
Tell me about your kids Well-adjusted, Very Social, Public School, Preschool Student, Male children, Female children, Elementary School Student, Boys, Active in Faith-Based Organization
Work: Yes
Occupation: dietary
About Me:
My nickname is TT I have 2 children ages 4 and 8 Im divorced i work in dietary at a local nusrsing home and attend college when i can afford it .Pretty much the kids are my life .
I found this on Connect with Kids under Isabelle Zehnder, click on "faith based organizations" that her sons are involved with and it brings you to tt.
coincidence? maybe.
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The original poster has erased their post.
Wonder why?
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Because Fornits isn't a good place to leave your personal info?
Long story short: She was worried about her niece getting sent, but after the program knew she was working against them, they couldn't take the heat and refused to let the niece in.
The remaining problem is that Hephzibah House still exists.
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This place is pretty scary. One of the staff members has 9 kids! There is nothing at all wrong with a large family BUT the photos look like those you find in these communes where every man has 10 wives and girls get married at 13 and have a kid at 14.
I saw nothing describing how the place was run. They did not even offer a daily schedule online to give an idea about what the day holds for the under aged girls they are trusting these old fogeys to take care of properly.
All I saw was a lot of bible passages and requests for all kinds of supplies. I was shocked they were not asking for bullets and guns and hand grenades!
Parents need to proceed with caution when considering putting their kid in a troubled teen program.
It would be great for guardians/parents to look over the joint in person and to ask 21 questions about the program, it's daily routine, punishments given when their kid is misbehaving, what kind of medical and psychiatric care is given, do they allow medicines for
kids with mental issues, medicines for medical issues, Etc.
What kind of free time the kids receive. Even Hollywood has high standards to follow when using kid actors. They need so much free time off the set, cetain amount of time for schooling, Etc.
About 10-15+ years ago parents and guardians were very lax when sending their kids away. They read the glossy brochures and heard the talk every parent gets from the programs represenitive and were all on board even though they never physically laid eyes on the joint.
That system worked out well huh?
IF a kid is a good canidate to be in a troubled teen program why not offer to fly or drive the
parents to the place for a pre-interview? God knows the school gets reimbursed when the parents pay the first years tuition. Even if the parents veto the school they still do not lose
all that much financially.
It needs to be done the right way to prevent these tragedies that we hear of on the TV.
Yes it can and will happen to your child. It is not always someone elses kid that gets hurt or even dies in these programs.
Kids need to be protected even the pain in the ass ones. To send them to a place hundreds to thousands of miles away from home all because the brochure looked nice and the phone rep talked a good talk is irresponsible and potentially dangerous. There are many "What if's" and "Why me's" bouncing around out there. Please do not be one of the people asking this about your kids.
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Okay this is just funny. Sorry to bring up an old thread but I've been gone for a while. Someone was having fun with this I suspect.
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