Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Anonymous on June 16, 2007, 09:03:06 PM
Title: Stupid fears
Post by: Anonymous on June 16, 2007, 09:03:06 PM
Has anyone else on this forum had stark reactions when some kid says he's going away to camp for two weeks, until you have real confirmation that it really is just some ordinary summer camp?
Title: Stupid fears
Post by: mbnh31782 on June 16, 2007, 09:25:23 PM
most of the time i dont react if the kid says 1-2 weeks.... the kids who are the ones who are in trouble are the ones who DONT know they're being sent away to a facility. 9 times out of 10 in most domestic situations, the child has no idea they are about to be ousted from their environments and put through some form of hell. Chances are good if a kid mentions camp, it brings alot of good memories (boy and girlscouts, regular day camps, overnight camps) especially during the summer months. unfortunately those kids who get sent away in the 9 times out of 10 cases (you wont hear about it until its too late.) Additionally that 1 out of 10 was sent there by the state, in which the child knows the consequence and doesnt have time to weasel out of it as they likely transport the child right from the courthouse to the facility they were sentenced to.
Title: Stupid fears
Post by: nimdA on June 16, 2007, 09:30:57 PM
A had an email from a young lady once asking me what I thought some wilderness camp would be like.
Telling you... Chillllls... down spine..
Title: Re: Stupid fears
Post by: Anonymous on June 16, 2007, 09:40:23 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Has anyone else on this forum had stark reactions when some kid says he's going away to camp for two weeks, until you have real confirmation that it really is just some ordinary summer camp?
Parents that deceitful usually use kidnappers..er.. escorts.
Title: Stupid fears
Post by: Anonymous on June 16, 2007, 10:19:41 PM
There have been tales of parents tricking their kids by lying to them about their destination.
But he has friends whom I can interrogate. If the kid doesn't come back in two weeks, I'm going to hunt his parents down.
Title: This post brought back a memory about something I had forgot
Post by: Anonymous on June 16, 2007, 10:45:07 PM
That title should say "forgotten"...
Anyway, when I was 15, my dad belonged for a brief time to the John Birch Society....for those of you that dont know, its a staunchly anti-communist group....they had a summer camp, and they told me they were going to send me to it for a few weeks because my dad went to the joslin diabetic summer camp for years and thought I might have fun...but what the promo film that I saw looked like..it looked like a cult....sorta....and I wasnt having any part of it....so right before I was to go, I got more and more nervous about it and the night before I started throwing up, partially on purpose but my stomach really was in knots..it was so bad they decided I was really sick and didnt send me, and that was the end of that.
Title: Stupid fears
Post by: Nihilanthic on June 17, 2007, 12:32:29 AM
I ALWAYS feared being 'sent away' or abandoned/betrayed as a kid.
Now I know why I should have been... but my own parents would never have done such a thing. My mom's too clingy and my dad too tight with money.
Still, it makes me wonder.
Title: Re: This post brought back a memory about something I had fo
Post by: Oz girl on June 17, 2007, 01:03:17 AM
Quote from: ""SH""
That title should say "forgotten"...
Anyway, when I was 15, my dad belonged for a brief time to the John Birch Society....for those of you that dont know, its a staunchly anti-communist group....they had a summer camp, and they told me they were going to send me to it for a few weeks because my dad went to the joslin diabetic summer camp for years and thought I might have fun...but what the promo film that I saw looked like..it looked like a cult....sorta....and I wasnt having any part of it....so right before I was to go, I got more and more nervous about it and the night before I started throwing up, partially on purpose but my stomach really was in knots..it was so bad they decided I was really sick and didnt send me, and that was the end of that.
I found it on the net http://www.rickross.com/reference/jbs/jbs1.html (http://www.rickross.com/reference/jbs/jbs1.html) http://youthmeetstruth.org/faq.php (http://youthmeetstruth.org/faq.php) Rick ross has some things to say about it. Check out the FAQ page. it mentioned that kids who dont want to go to something as "educational" as this should be made go anyway. It reminds me of a German Biology teacher i once had who was in charge of the ecosystems camp. She would always preface it with You Vill Enjoy yourself gels! it was a brief glimpse of Hitler youth. I wonder if their back to school what i did during the summer essay includes looking for Reds under the Bed!
Title: Stupid fears
Post by: psy on June 17, 2007, 02:25:03 AM
Quote from: ""youthmeetstruth.org""
WHAT TO BRING:
* Informal and casual clothing appropriate for warm days and cool nights to last a week. Laundry facilities are not available. * Dress clothes for the Friday banquet: Ladies: a dress, or a skirt and a blouse. Gentlemen: a suit, or dress slacks, dress shirt, and tie. * A modest swimsuit: Ladies: one-piece suits are preferred; Gentlemen: "boxer"-style swimsuits preferred – please, no spandex or speedo-style swim wear. If there is any question regarding acceptability, please bring an alternate. * Coat: A warm, waterproof jacket or raincoat. * Bedding: Sleeping bags are recommended. No bedding of any kind will be provided. Don't forget a pillow! * Personal toiletries: (soap, towels, shampoo, toothpaste, etc.). Nothing but water will be supplied! * A flashlight and extra batteries are a MUST, as are pens and notebooks! * You may also want to bring your favorite sports equipment, (baseball glove/bat, ping pong paddle, etc.) or any musical instrument you play.
WHAT NOT TO BRING:
* Radios, boomboxes, discmans or any other similar items. If you bring an alarm clock that has a radio in it, that function may not be used as the alarm. * Fireworks or any other items whose primary function is "noisemaking". * Firearms of any kind. - Tobacco products of any kind (except adults). * Alcohol or drugs. * Non-prescription drugs of any kind. All prescription drugs will be turned over to the Camp Doctor upon arrival. * Immodest clothing, or clothing with inappropriate messages/images. Please, nothing promoting "rock music" themes/bands or having phrases/wording with profanity, sexually-suggestive meanings or connotations. * Please, no earrings for males.
and the "curriculum" is basically "AAAHH... BEWARE the evil commie-faggot-immigrant-terrist-liberal-druggie-hippie freaks at the UN trying to take over the world by THREATENING BIG BUSINESS !!!" No really. go have a look.
Title: Stupid fears
Post by: Froderik on June 17, 2007, 09:24:35 AM
Quote from: ""Teethy""
The U.N. is bumbling, corrupt, incapable of anything worthwhile. Rwanda. Kosovo is still a mess and Clark, Clinton and Albright should be tried as war criminals. What will U.N. backing do? Have you heard about Christian churches being torched in the former Yugoslavia by Muslims? Wait, the U.N. was there, but the U.N. troops ran away, now you have a big mess. Where is the liberal outcry over that? Probably none becuase the left loves dead Christians, I know the U.N. does. Kick the U.N. the fuck out of New York, get some taxes from that property for the City coffers; that would be something worthwhile.
Title: Re: This post brought back a memory about something I had fo
Post by: Ursus on June 17, 2007, 10:27:29 AM
Quote from: ""Oz girl""
http://youthmeetstruth.org/faq.php
Rick ross has some things to say about it. Check out the FAQ page. it mentioned that kids who dont want to go to something as "educational" as this should be made go anyway.
Don't think that it's Rick Ross that says it; FAQ page is from the Youth Meets Truth website.
The official main website: http://www.jbs.org/ (http://www.jbs.org/)
I'll never eat Welch's grape jelly again.
Title: Stupid fears
Post by: Ursus on June 17, 2007, 10:36:14 AM
Title: WHAT??
Post by: Anonymous on June 17, 2007, 11:10:35 AM
Clinton should be tried as a war criminal???? Oh Please.....and I suppose you think Bush is an angel...HA! Bush is the biggest criminal that ever set foot in the oval office....yea I said it.....he is a C R I M I N A L...........so are his "handlers".....this is by far the worst administration this country has ever seen.....and I will celebrate the day they leave office....the day can't come soon enough......I don't know what is wrong with the democrats though...how much more obvious can it be???? All I can say to this is DUH! Do we have to spell it out for you???? OK I guess I do:
I- M- P -E -A -C-H -B- U- S- H- N- O- W
....don't get me started... LOL
Title: Re: WHAT??
Post by: Anonymous on June 17, 2007, 11:30:42 AM
Quote from: ""SH""
I- M- P -E -A -C-H -B- U- S- H- N- O- W
Only about seven years too late..
Title: Stupid fears
Post by: ajax13 on June 17, 2007, 11:39:05 AM
Clinton is a war criminal. He bombed Serbia in the final phase of the war to destroy Yugoslavia. He launched cruise missiles at Sudan to take the heat off at home, and he continued the policy of bombing Iraq every few days that started in 1991 and goes on still today. He oversaw the continuation of the destruction of Columbia by arming the paramilitaries and the government forces. He took his kick at Haiti, as just about everyone who rules the US does. Bush's handlers are the same people who gave you Clinton. Hopefully, at some point, Americans will realize that the Democrats are just one side of the same coin. It's time to grow up. If you have an economy dominated by speculators who have massive military power to back up their schemes, you will get Nanking, and Danzig, and Warsaw, and Dresden, and Dien Bien Phu and Mi Lai, and the Iranian Revolution, and the World Trade Center destruction, and Baghdad.
Title: Stupid fears
Post by: Froderik on June 17, 2007, 12:36:22 PM
Quote from: ""ajax13""
Bush's handlers are the same people who gave you Clinton. Hopefully, at some point, Americans will realize that the Democrats are just one side of the same coin.
Exactly! And I roll my eyes at you, SH: :roll: 8-)
Title: Stupid fears
Post by: Anonymous on June 17, 2007, 01:07:34 PM
Im not saying Clinton didnt do his share of dastardly deeds.....but comparing Clinton's crimes to Bush's crimes is like comparing Ken Lay to Stalin. They are both criminals, but one is far more sinister.
And to Froderik...is that all you got? Oooohhh I'm scarrrreeddd.
Title: Stupid fears
Post by: Froderik on June 17, 2007, 02:28:31 PM
You seem to be missing the point, SH...
Nevermind, I guess this is a little over your head. :rofl:
And since when were rolled eyes supposed to be scary? :roll: :P ::bwahaha::
Title: Stupid fears
Post by: Anonymous on June 17, 2007, 02:38:23 PM
Quote from: ""Froderik""
And since when were rolled eyes supposed to be scary? :roll: :P ::bwahaha::
:rofl: Can't argue with that... -Frod (logged out by the system)
Title: Stupid fears
Post by: Anonymous on June 17, 2007, 03:42:48 PM
Quote from: ""psy""
Quote from: ""Froderik""
You seem to be missing the point, SH...
He just hast to become more cynical... Then he will know that both "sides" are just as willing to fuck the public in the ass given the power to do so.
Yep... thanks, psy.. -Frod again
Title: Stupid fears
Post by: Anonymous on June 17, 2007, 03:58:03 PM
Quote from: ""SH""
Im not saying Clinton didnt do his share of dastardly deeds.....but comparing Clinton's crimes to Bush's crimes is like comparing Ken Lay to Stalin. They are both criminals, but one is far more sinister.
And to Froderik...is that all you got? Oooohhh I'm scarrrreeddd.
oh he did his share and it's exactly like comparing APPLES to APPLES. They are the same, they are working towards the same goal. But when it's a party (like democrats) in office that we assume it's the lesser of 2 evils so we don't go hunting for the dirt but it's there.
I love this letter that was written to bill while he was in office...
Quote
A letter to the President from Eric Jowers
Dear Mr. President:
It's not about sex. If it were about sex, you would be long gone. Just like a doctor, attorney or teacher who had sex with a patient, client or student half his age, you would have violated the ethics of your office and would be long gone.
Just like a Sergeant Major of the Army, Gene McKinney, who though found not guilty, was forced to resign amid accusations of sexual abuse.
Remember the Air Force General you wouldn't nominate to be Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff because he freely admitted to an affair almost 15 years before, while he and his wife were separated? Unlike you, he was never accused of having a starry-eyed office assistant my daughter's age perform oral sex on him while he was on the phone and his wife and daughter were upstairs.
If it were about sex, you should be subjected to the same horrible hearings that Clarence Thomas was subjected to because of the accusations of Anita Hill. The only accusation then was that he talked dirty to her; he didn't even leave semen stains on her dress. No, it's not about sex. It's about character. It's about lying. It's about arrogance. It's about abuse of power. It's about dodging the draft and lying about it.. When caught in a lie by letters you wrote, you concocted a story that nobody believed. But we excused it and looked away.
It's about smoking dope, and lying about it. "I didn't inhale" you said. Sure, and when I was 15 and my buddies and I swiped a beer from an unwatched refrigerator, we drank from it, but we didn't swallow. "I broke no laws of the United States," you said. That's right, you smoked dope in England or Norway or Moscow; where you were demonstrating against the U.S.A. You lied, but we excused it and looked away.
It's about you selling overnight stays in the White House to any foreigner or other contributor with untraceable cash. It's about Whitewater and Jim and Susan McDougal and Arkansas, GOV. Jim Guy Tucker and Vincent Foster and Jennifer Flowers and Paula Jones and Karen Willey and countless others.
It's about stealing the records from Foster's office while his body was still warm and putting them in your bedroom and "not noticing them" for two years. It's about illegal political contributions. It's about you and Al Gore soliciting contributions and selling influence at Buddhist temples and in the same Oval Office where Abraham Lincoln and Franklin Roosevelt led their countries through the dark days of wars that threatened the very existence of our nation. But we excused you and looked away.
It's about hiding evidence from Ken Starr, refusing to testify, filing legal motions, coaching witnesses, obstructing justice and delaying Judge Starr's inquiry for months and years, and then complaining that it has gone on too long. The polls agreed. Thank goodness that Judge Starr didn't read the polls, play politics or excuse you and look away. He held on to the evidence like a tenacious bulldog.
Your supporters say that you've confessed your wrong doings and asked for our forgiveness. Listen, what you said on TV the night you testified to the grand jury was not a confession; overwhelming evidence is not a confession at all. Not that it would make a lot of difference. A murderer who contritely confesses his crime is still a murderer. When your "confession" didn't sell, even to your friends, you became more forthcoming. Maybe someday you'll confess more, but probably not. You've established such pattern of lying that we can't believe you anymore. Neither can your cabinet, the Congress or any of the leaders of the nations of the world. When a leader's actions defame and emasculate our country as profoundly as yours have, it's no longer a personal matter, as you claim. It's no longer a matter between you, your family and your God.
By the way, I don't believe for a minute that Hillary was unaware of your sexual misadventures, abuses of power and pattern of lying. She has been a party to your wrong doings since Whitewater and Jennifer Flowers just as surely as she lied about the Rose law firm's billings and hid the Vincent Foster evidence in your bedroom for two years. Why? So she could share in the raw power that your office carries. The two of you probably lied to Chelsea, but that is a matter among you, your family and our God.
Remember the sign over James Carvill's desk during the l992 campaign? It said, "It's the economy, stupid!" Place this sign over your desk: "It's about character, stupid!"
No, it's not about sex, Mr. President. If it were, you would be long gone. It's about character; but we have to live with your filth, lies and arrogance for a while longer. Your lies, amorality and lack of character have been as pervasive as they have been despicable, so we have no reason to believe that you will quietly resign and go away. You'll count on half-truths and spin doctors to see you through, the country be damned. It has always worked before. We excused you and looked the other way.
No more, we've had enough. You betrayed us enough. You have made every elected official, minister, teacher, diplomat, parent and grandparent in the country apologize for you and explain away your actions. Now go away, and let us show them that our country was not without morals. It was just that you were.
Let us show them that America was not the problem. William Jefferson Clinton was.
Go away, Mr. President. Leave us alone. And when you leave, know that your legacy to the United States of America will be a stain on the office of the President that is as filthy as the stain on Monica's dress. It will take a lot of scrubbing to make it clean again.
A bunch of goodies here about the less then criminal Clinton: http://www.geocities.com/lord_visionary ... nindex.htm (http://www.geocities.com/lord_visionary/clintonindex.htm)
Granted much of it is disputed, but of course, he was the president.
And don't give Georgie Jr. that much credit. he's doing the job his father arranged. Georgie Sr. is not a stupid mother fucker, the only man to head the CIA and become president, and probably the last. That's just something that "doesn't" happen. His connections run deep and are very sinister but his family has been connected for a long long time. Clinton and he are good friends, if you dig a little it's quite obvious.
Forget the 1 sided coin. There is no coin, it's an illusion! The media is owned by a small group of people who all have the same goal... And we the people of this country, and some around the world, are either too ignorant to know any better, to lazy & stupid to check up on our government (because the information is there), or too comfortable in our petty little lives to give a fuck.
If they can brainwash kids or adults in a very cult like setting, damn sure they can do it if you are happy and feeling good about the life you're livin. The media has been the driving force behind molding our society and it's beliefs, as well as instilling enough fear in us to make us believe we NEED the government more then we do. We need them to be safe and secure. FUCK THAT. They do not make me feel safe, I'll tell you that.
There is something bigger going on... The New World Order, if you will, is not a joke. It's a masterful, sick and twisted plan, driven by a belief in "God" to top it off. A very sinister God. This is a ONE party government, it doesn't matter who you vote for, there are always going to be enough of "them" in office to maintain control. There always has been, that won't change.
Let the good times roll! You ain't seen nothing yet!
And what about this? does THIS SCARE YOU? Does it huh?? huh?? Shall we take it outside? huh? Huh? What the fuck are you in 3rd grade??
Title: Stupid fears
Post by: Anonymous on June 17, 2007, 04:09:45 PM
Quote from: ""snork""
Quote from: ""SH""
Im not saying Clinton didnt do his share of dastardly deeds.....but comparing Clinton's crimes to Bush's crimes is like comparing Ken Lay to Stalin. They are both criminals, but one is far more sinister.
And to Froderik...is that all you got? Oooohhh I'm scarrrreeddd.
oh he did his share and it's exactly like comparing APPLES to APPLES. They are the same, they are working towards the same goal. But when it's a party (like democrats) in office that we assume it's the lesser of 2 evils so we don't go hunting for the dirt but it's there.
I love this letter that was written to bill while he was in office...
Quote
A letter to the President from Eric Jowers
Dear Mr. President:
It's not about sex. If it were about sex, you would be long gone. Just like a doctor, attorney or teacher who had sex with a patient, client or student half his age, you would have violated the ethics of your office and would be long gone.
Just like a Sergeant Major of the Army, Gene McKinney, who though found not guilty, was forced to resign amid accusations of sexual abuse.
Remember the Air Force General you wouldn't nominate to be Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff because he freely admitted to an affair almost 15 years before, while he and his wife were separated? Unlike you, he was never accused of having a starry-eyed office assistant my daughter's age perform oral sex on him while he was on the phone and his wife and daughter were upstairs.
If it were about sex, you should be subjected to the same horrible hearings that Clarence Thomas was subjected to because of the accusations of Anita Hill. The only accusation then was that he talked dirty to her; he didn't even leave semen stains on her dress. No, it's not about sex. It's about character. It's about lying. It's about arrogance. It's about abuse of power. It's about dodging the draft and lying about it.. When caught in a lie by letters you wrote, you concocted a story that nobody believed. But we excused it and looked away.
It's about smoking dope, and lying about it. "I didn't inhale" you said. Sure, and when I was 15 and my buddies and I swiped a beer from an unwatched refrigerator, we drank from it, but we didn't swallow. "I broke no laws of the United States," you said. That's right, you smoked dope in England or Norway or Moscow; where you were demonstrating against the U.S.A. You lied, but we excused it and looked away.
It's about you selling overnight stays in the White House to any foreigner or other contributor with untraceable cash. It's about Whitewater and Jim and Susan McDougal and Arkansas, GOV. Jim Guy Tucker and Vincent Foster and Jennifer Flowers and Paula Jones and Karen Willey and countless others.
It's about stealing the records from Foster's office while his body was still warm and putting them in your bedroom and "not noticing them" for two years. It's about illegal political contributions. It's about you and Al Gore soliciting contributions and selling influence at Buddhist temples and in the same Oval Office where Abraham Lincoln and Franklin Roosevelt led their countries through the dark days of wars that threatened the very existence of our nation. But we excused you and looked away.
It's about hiding evidence from Ken Starr, refusing to testify, filing legal motions, coaching witnesses, obstructing justice and delaying Judge Starr's inquiry for months and years, and then complaining that it has gone on too long. The polls agreed. Thank goodness that Judge Starr didn't read the polls, play politics or excuse you and look away. He held on to the evidence like a tenacious bulldog.
Your supporters say that you've confessed your wrong doings and asked for our forgiveness. Listen, what you said on TV the night you testified to the grand jury was not a confession; overwhelming evidence is not a confession at all. Not that it would make a lot of difference. A murderer who contritely confesses his crime is still a murderer. When your "confession" didn't sell, even to your friends, you became more forthcoming. Maybe someday you'll confess more, but probably not. You've established such pattern of lying that we can't believe you anymore. Neither can your cabinet, the Congress or any of the leaders of the nations of the world. When a leader's actions defame and emasculate our country as profoundly as yours have, it's no longer a personal matter, as you claim. It's no longer a matter between you, your family and your God.
By the way, I don't believe for a minute that Hillary was unaware of your sexual misadventures, abuses of power and pattern of lying. She has been a party to your wrong doings since Whitewater and Jennifer Flowers just as surely as she lied about the Rose law firm's billings and hid the Vincent Foster evidence in your bedroom for two years. Why? So she could share in the raw power that your office carries. The two of you probably lied to Chelsea, but that is a matter among you, your family and our God.
Remember the sign over James Carvill's desk during the l992 campaign? It said, "It's the economy, stupid!" Place this sign over your desk: "It's about character, stupid!"
No, it's not about sex, Mr. President. If it were, you would be long gone. It's about character; but we have to live with your filth, lies and arrogance for a while longer. Your lies, amorality and lack of character have been as pervasive as they have been despicable, so we have no reason to believe that you will quietly resign and go away. You'll count on half-truths and spin doctors to see you through, the country be damned. It has always worked before. We excused you and looked the other way.
No more, we've had enough. You betrayed us enough. You have made every elected official, minister, teacher, diplomat, parent and grandparent in the country apologize for you and explain away your actions. Now go away, and let us show them that our country was not without morals. It was just that you were.
Let us show them that America was not the problem. William Jefferson Clinton was.
Go away, Mr. President. Leave us alone. And when you leave, know that your legacy to the United States of America will be a stain on the office of the President that is as filthy as the stain on Monica's dress. It will take a lot of scrubbing to make it clean again.
A bunch of goodies here about the less then criminal Clinton: http://www.geocities.com/lord_visionary ... nindex.htm (http://www.geocities.com/lord_visionary/clintonindex.htm)
Granted much of it is disputed, but of course, he was the president.
And don't give Georgie Jr. that much credit. he's doing the job his father arranged. Georgie Sr. is not a stupid mother fucker, the only man to head the CIA and become president, and probably the last. That's just something that "doesn't" happen. His connections run deep and are very sinister but his family has been connected for a long long time. Clinton and he are good friends, if you dig a little it's quite obvious.
Forget the 1 sided coin. There is no coin, it's an illusion! The media is owned by a small group of people who all have the same goal... And we the people of this country, and some around the world, are either too ignorant to know any better, to lazy & stupid to check up on our government (because the information is there), or too comfortable in our petty little lives to give a fuck.
If they can brainwash kids or adults in a very cult like setting, damn sure they can do it if you are happy and feeling good about the life you're livin. The media has been the driving force behind molding our society and it's beliefs, as well as instilling enough fear in us to make us believe we NEED the government more then we do. We need them to be safe and secure. FUCK THAT. They do not make me feel safe, I'll tell you that.
There is something bigger going on... The New World Order, if you will, is not a joke. It's a masterful, sick and twisted plan, driven by a belief in "God" to top it off. A very sinister God. This is a ONE party government, it doesn't matter who you vote for, there are always going to be enough of "them" in office to maintain control. There always has been, that won't change.
Let the good times roll! You ain't seen nothing yet!
And what about this? does THIS SCARE YOU? Does it huh?? huh?? Shall we take it outside? huh? Huh? What the fuck are you in 3rd grade??
nah see this... :roll: is, by FAR, much more effective, for the likes of you. :rofl: :rofl:
Excellent post! -Frod
Title: Stupid fears
Post by: Anonymous on June 17, 2007, 04:46:33 PM
Tell me you aren't arguing over smileys? :roll: :roll: :roll:
Title: Stupid fears
Post by: Ursus on June 17, 2007, 05:01:20 PM
Some information about some of the John Birch Society's earliest supporters:
http://www.mediatransparency.org/funder ... funderID=1 (http://www.mediatransparency.org/funderprofile.php?funderID=1) The Lynde and Harry Bradley Foundation, Inc. ein: 39-6037928 355 institutional roles for $30,396,079 1241 North Franklin Place Milwaukee, WI 53202 http://www.bradleyfdn.org/ (http://www.bradleyfdn.org/)
With $706 million in assets (2005), the Lynde and Harry Bradley Foundation of Milwaukee, Wisconsin is the country's largest and most influential right-wing foundation. As of the end of 2005, it was giving away more than $34 million a year [Bradley Foundation 2005 IRS 99-PF].
Its financial resources, its clear political agenda, and its extensive national network of contacts and collaborators in political, academic and media circles has allowed it to exert an important influence on key issues of public policy. While its targets range from affirmative action to social security, it has seen its greatest successes in the areas of welfare "reform" and attempts to privatize public education through the promotion of school vouchers.
What Bradley Money Buys:
Within Milwaukee, Bradley money goes to a host of local organizations and institutions, most of which are not political in character. Virtually all the cultural institutions and most of the local colleges receive grants. The money buys good will and helps secure the hometown base.The overall objective of the Bradley Foundation, however, is to return the U.S. - and the world- to the days before governments began to regulate Big Business, before corporations were forced to make concessions to an organized labor force. In other words, laissez-faire capitalism: capitalism with the gloves off.
To further this objective, Bradley supports the organizations and individuals that promote the deregulation of business, the rollback of virtually all social welfare programs, and the privitization of government services. As a result, the list of Bradley grant recipients reads like a Who's Who of the U.S.Right. Bradley money supports such major right-wing groups as the Heritage Foundation, source of policy papers on budget cuts, supply-side economics and the Star Wars military plan for the Reagan administration; the Madison Center for Educational Affairs, which provides funding for right-wing research and a network of conservative student newspapers; and the American Enterprise Institute for Public Policy Research, literary home for such racist authors as Charles Murray (The Bell Curve) and Dinesh D'Souza (The End of Racism), former conservative officeholders Jeane Kirkpatrick, Jack Kemp and William Bennett, and arch-conservative jurists Robert Bork and Antonin Scalia.
Other Bradley grantees include the Free Congress Research and Education Foundation; the Hoover Institute on War, Revolution, and Peace; and the Ronald Reagan Presidential Foundation.There are the major conservative publications, such as The Public Interest, The National Interest, and The American Spectator. And there are organizations set up to play specific roles in promoting the right-wing agenda, such as the Institute for Justice, a public interest law firm that promotes privatization and deregulation, and the National Center for Neighborhood Enterprise, a vehicle for building support for privitization in low-income communities.
Where the Money Came From: The Allen-Bradley Company
Although not born into wealth, the late Lynde and Harry Bradley brothers were members of one of Milwaukee's most prominent families. Their maternal grandfather was William Pitt Lynde, one of Wisconsin's first two congressmen who also served as the state's U.S.Attorney, an alderman, and a mayor of Milwaukee. In 1903,Lynde and Harry founded a business that would become the Allen-Bradley Company, a major manufacturer of electronic and radio components. Harry was the more politically active of the two. A man with extreme right-wing views, he was an early financial supporter of the John Birch Society, one of the country's leading far-right organizations,based in nearby Appleton, WI.
Robert Welsh, who founded the Society in 1958, was a regular speaker at Allen-Bradley sales meetings. Harry distributed Birchite literature, as did Fred Loock, another key figure at the company. They also supported the Australian doctor Fred Schwarz, founder of the Christian Anti-Communist Crusade; William F. Buckley, Jr.'s National Review; and a right-wing Midwest radio program produced by anti-communist producer Bob Siegrist. Harry's main political targets were "World Communism" and the U.S. federal government, not necessarily in that order. His political philosophy was laissez-faire capitalism, and he was strongly opposed to anything that might restrict his freedom to conduct his business as he saw fit. His promotion of "freedom", however, did not extend to his own workers. While women had worked at the plant since 1918, and made up nearly a third of the workforce during World War II, they weren't paid the same as men. They finally sued in 1966, charging the company paid less to women than male workers operating the same machines. A federal judge ruled in their favor.
Allen-Bradley was one of the last major Milwaukee employers to racially integrate, and then only through public and legal pressure. By 1968, when the company's workforce had grown to more than 7,000, Allen-Bradley employed only 32 Blacks and 14 Latinos. That year, demonstrators led by the civil rights leader Father James Groppi picketed the plant, demanding the hiring of more workers of color. The company was eventually forced to adopt an affirmative action plan, after the federal government backed a discrimination suit. And although Allen-Bradley had been unionized since 1937 (United Radio and Electrical Workers of America Local 1111), the company had bitterly resisted recognizing a closed or union shop. Around 1970, a 76-day strike forced management to agree to allow payroll deduction of union dues. All of these advancements for their workers did nothing to endear the company's owners to the idea of government regulation of industry. Lynde, Harry, and Frank Loock all shared a view of themselves as benevolent dictators over their workers, more than able to decide what their employees needed, without any advice from the federal government. If that included racial and gender discrimination, that was their business and no one else's, and they were determined to oppose any perceived threat, whether it came from Moscow or from Washington.
In 1942, the brothers formed the Allen-Bradley Foundation, which quickly became a key benefactor for local institutions such as St. Luke's Hospital, the Milwaukee School of Engineering, and the Boy's Club. In addition to being a major employer, Allen-Bradley was now an important source of money for the city as well. But while it gave a few grants to right-wing groups like the Freedoms Foundation and Morality in Media, it was still basically a local philanthropy.
A Newly Enriched Foundation Hires Chairman Mike
Things changed dramatically in 1985, when the Allen-Bradley Company was sold to Rockwell International, a leading defense and aerospace conglomerate, for a whopping $1.651 billion. The Foundation benefited heavily from the sale, seeing its assets shoot up overnight from less than $14 million to more than $290 million, catapulting it into the ranks of the country's largest foundations. At that point its name was changed to the Lynde and Harry Bradley Foundation, to publicly separate it from the company. Flush with new money and an understanding that they were now poised to play a more national role, foundation trustees decided it was time to hire a professional to run the organization. They found their man in New York at the John M. Olin Foundation.
Michael S. Joyce, Bradley's current president2, is a former high school teacher from an Irish Catholic Democratic Party family in Cleveland, Ohio. By 1972 he was voting for Richard Nixon and advancing in conservative circles. "His move to the political big time came in 1978," wrote Barbara Miner in the Spring, 1994 issue of the Milwaukee-based education newspaper Rethinking Schools, "when he went to New York to work for the Institute for Educational Affairs, a neoconservative organization started by right wing trailblazer Irving Kristol and William Simon, secretary of the treasury for Presidents Nixon and Ford. The following year Simon asked Joyce to head the Olin Foundation."
The New York-based John M. Olin Foundation grew out of a family manufacturing business in chemicals and munitions. It funds nationally influential right-wing think tanks like the Heritage Foundation, the American Enterprise Institute, the Manhattan Institute for Public Policy Research, and the Hoover Institute of War, Revolution and Peace. It also gives large sums of money to promote conservative programs in the country's most prestigious colleges and universities. After Joyce left to take charge of the Bradley Foundation, William Simon replaced him as president at Olin.
Joyce had the national connections that the Bradley Foundation was looking for. He had served on Ronald Reagan's presidential transition team in 1980 and in the following years on several Reagan-Bush advisory boards and task forces. According to a 1985 profile in the Milwaukee Business Journal, he is believed to have helped William Bennett get his job as Secretary of Education under Reagan. Bennett himself served as a Bradley board member from 1988-89 [The Bradley Legacy, by John Gurda]. Joyce and Bennett remain close. Says Bennett, "When I've needed his advice, he has returned my calls saying, 'This is Coach Joyce and this is what I want you to do'"[Barbara Miner, Rethinking Schools, Spring, 1994.]
When Bennett, Jack Kemp, Jeanne Kirkpatrick, Lamar Alexander, and Vin Weber went on to found the national Republican advocacy group Empower America in 1993, the founding conference was held in Milwaukee. In 1986, Joyce was named in an Atlantic Monthly article as one of the three people most responsible for the triumph of the conservative political movement. About the same time, The Chicago Tribune said he may be the voice of the GOP's future.
Joyce's personal viewpoint is more than traditional, emphasizing a view of family, "kinship" and community drawn from the cultures of ancient Israel and Greece. "I'm not talking about the 1950's," Joyce once told an interviewer, "I'm talking about 1950 B.C." (Milwaukee Journal, 10/30/94.) Joyce brought a more focused, sophisticated view to Bradley's funding. Under his leadership, Bradley strategically funded the authors and writers who could set the terms for national debate on key issues of public policy, the think tanks that could develop specific programs, the activist organizations that could implement those programs, and the legal offices that could defend those programs in court, as well as carry out legal offensives against other targets.
"Mike is pretty close to being the central figure [within conservative foundations]. The chairman of the board or whatever you want to call it," says Waldemar Nielsen, author of Golden Donors, a book on the foundation movement. By 1992, he was receiving $310,000 in salary and benefits as president of the Bradley Foundation [Barbara Miner, Rethinking Schools, Spring,1994]. By Dec. 31, 1995, the foundation's total assets were $461,601,000, and it was making annual grants in excess of $20 million. [From Bradley's 1995 annual report].
Bradley's influence increased considerably after the Republicans lost the White House and leading conservative figures lost their influential government positions. It was these three factors - the Rockwell windfall, the hiring of nationally-connected Joyce and the Republicans' loss of the presidency - that made the Bradley-sponsored network of institutes, conservative writers, and think tanks so important in continuing to influence the direction of public policy in the U.S. It is now the premier right-wing foundation in the country.
"The Lynde and Harry Bradley Foundation illustrates the power of a well-financed foundation with a clearly articulated political and ideological vision...it is one of the nation's largest supporters of conservative thought and activity" [Buying a Movement: Right-Wing Foundations and American Politics, by People for the American Way].
Targeting the Black Community
In recent years, Bradley has increasingly turned its attention to the African American community, posing as a friend with real solutions to long-term urban problems, particularly around the issue of school "reform". A brief review of its past role, however, tells a far different story. Bradley is a major funding source for the Center for Individual Rights, the public law firm that successfully argued Hopwood vs. the State of Texas, a challenge to affirmative action policies at the University of Texas Law School. That 1996 decision effectively eliminated affirmative action in the state university system of Texas as well as in neighboring Mississippi and Louisiana.
Through its funding of the National Association of Scholars (NAS), Bradley played a key role in the 1996 successful anti-affirmative action referendum campaign in California, known as the California Civil Rights Initiative. The co-author of CCRI is Thomas Wood, executive director of the state affiliate of the NAS, which receives over $100,000 a year from Bradley. The effect of the overturn of affirmative action in Texas and California has been enormous, not only drastically reducing the number of students of color in these two heavily populated states, but also choking the pipeline for future Black and Latino attorneys and elected officials.
Bradley is also a heavy funder of University of California Regent Ward Connerly and his American Civil Rights Institute. Connerly was a leading figure in the anti-affirmative action campaign in California. His Institute helped repeat that success in Washington state and is now trying to do the same in Florida. Bradley money supports the Pacific Legal Foundation, a conservative legal advocacy group that provided pro bono representation to California Gov. Pete Wilson in his challenge to five state statutes dealing with affirmative action in state employment and contracting goals.
A bill that would end affirmative action on the federal level was drafted by Clint Bolick, vice president and director of litigation for the Institute for Justice, another recipient of Bradley money. Earlier in his career, Bolick led the legal defense for the the first Wisconsin voucher law, while working for the Landmark Legal Foundation, another Bradley recipient. (Bolick's co-counsel in that case was the now notorious Kenneth Starr, who had previously done other legal work for Bradley.) Bolick also played a pivotal role in attacks on Lani Guinier, President Clinton's nominee to head the Justice Department's Civil Rights Division. Bolick's Wall Street Journal opinion piece headlined "Clinton's Quota Queen" dredged up the worst racist and sexist stereotypes and helped throw the Guinier nomination on the defensive. Bolick also teamed up with another Bradley-funded organization, the Free Congress Foundation, to orchestrate further attacks on Guinier.
In 1992, Bradley gave $11,850 to author David Brock for the publication of his work The Real Anita Hill: The Untold Story. The book, which attacked Hill's credibility, was based on an article Brock wrote for The American Spectator magazine, another Bradley grantee.
Welfare Reform and School Vouchers
Two of Bradley's greatest successes have come in its home town of Milwaukee, a city now known for its radical welfare reform and school voucher programs. Both are promoted as providing opportunities for upward mobility to disenfranchised communities. In reality, the major role of both programs has been to further undermine the principle that the people are "entitled" to anything from their government, while expanding the opportunities for the privitization of public services.
The case of welfare reform is particularly instructive. Throughout the 1980s, Bradley-funded authors and writers began to attack the ideological underpinnings of social welfare programs that grew out of the great labor struggles of the 1930s and the social movements of the 1960s. Three books in particular played key roles in this effort: Wealth and Poverty, by George Guilder; Losing Ground, by Charles Murray; and Beyond Entitlement, by Lawrence M. Mead. At the time these books were written, all three writers were working out of the Bradley-funded Manhattan Institute in New York City.
In Losing Ground, Murray argued that poverty is the result, not of economic dislocations like plant shutdowns and layoffs, periodic cycles of recession and depression, or racial and gender discrimination, but of individual failings. That being the case, he argued, most government-sponsored anti-poverty programs were ill-conceived and should be eliminated. In particular, he called for an end to all government programs that provide economic support for single mothers, such as Aid to Families with Dependent Children (AFDC), subsidized housing, or food stamps. From at least 1986 to 1989, Bradley was giving Murray an annual grant of $90,000. By 1991, it was paying him $113,000 per year. In response to intense criticism of Losing Ground, Bradley president Michael Joyce said, "Charles Murray, in my opinion, is one of the foremost social thinkers in the country."
After writing Losing Ground, Murray teamed up with the late Harvard psychologist Richard Hernstein to write the book The Bell Curve: Intelligence and Class Structure in American Life. According to an article in the New York Times, Hernstein "predicted that as a society became more meritocratic, individuals with low I.Q.s could congregate on the bottom of the economic scale, intermarry and produce offspring with low I.Q.'s." The Bell Curve incorporated elements of both Murray's Losing Ground and Hernstein's genetic theories.
The book argued that poverty is the result, not of social conditions or policies, but of the inferior genetic traits of a sub-class of human beings. The book was widely seen as a piece of profoundly racist and classist pseudo-science, and was denounced by the American Psychological Association. It had relied heavily on studies financed by the Pioneer Fund, a neo-Nazi organization that promoted eugenicist research. Immediately after its publication, Bradley raised Murray's annual grant to $163,000.
Murray and Hernstein's prescription for an end to poverty and the threat of a growing "underclass" was the elimination of all social welfare programs and their replacement by a work-centered program of coercion and behavioral modification. The goal was not the"empowerment" of poor people through acquiring jobs and independence, but rather their total regulation, on the theory that these were basically inferior people incapable of running their own lives. Harry Bradley would have felt right at home with the classist, sexist,and racist paternalism of the thesis.
W-2: Moving from Concept to Reality
About the time The Bell Curve was published, Bradley awarded a $175,000 grant to the Hudson Institute, a right-wing think tank based in Indianapolis. Members of Hudson's Board of Trustees include former vice president Dan Quayle and former Nixon chief of staff Gen. Alexander Haig. The grant was "to support a study of welfare reform in Wisconsin" [Bradley's 1995 annual report.] Hudson opened a branch office in Wisconsin's state capital, Madison, and went to work, creating the "Welfare Policy Center." According to Hudson's website, the Center is "... an outgrowth of Hudson's unique participation in helping the state of Wisconsin design and implement Wisconsin Works [W-2], the landmark welfare replacement plan passed into law early in 1996. A partof the policy team, Hudson worked closely with the state for over two years helping facilitate policy deliberations, researching specific issues, and acting as an independent contributor to the policy development process."
One of the people Hudson brought in as a consultant for the development of W-2 was Bell Curve author Charles Murray. As a result of W-2, Wisconsin's welfare rolls have been slashed by 90 percent, and in 1999 the state received a national award by the Ford Foundation for innovations in government. For the majority of former AFDC mothers, however, W-2 has been a disaster. A few women have found better jobs and income, but many more have found themselves strapped into a life of low-wage, dead-end jobs, many of them at temp agencies. A significant minority has seen the complete destruction of family life and livelihood. In Milwaukee, evictions have skyrocketed, as has homelessness. Food pantries are overwhelmed.
Most tragically, many single mothers have lost their children to the child welfare system. But privately operated W-2 agencies have made huge profits, while local businesses and "non-profits" have found free labor for their enterprises. Jason Turner, the former Bush administration official who headed the Wisconsin task force that developed W-2, now runs the largest workfare program in the country, WEP in New York City, where he is diligently applying the Wisconsin model. In the view of the right-wing social engineers, W-2 is a success story, and the Bradley Foundation is determined to repeat this "success" in other areas of public policy.
In Conclusion...
Bradley is certainly not the only conservative foundation promoting right-wing causes. It works in concert with a number of others to develop, maintain and promote a right-wing intelligencia that can play a major role in the manipulation of public opinion and the formulation of public policy. In fact, the Olin, Sarah Scaife, Smith Richardson and Bradley foundations are often called the "Four Sisters" for their tendency to fund similar conservative projects, publications and institutions. But Bradley, with the largest assets of the conservative foundations, with its national connections and a sharply focused political agenda, plays a leading role in the conservative movement.
Who's Who In the Foundation: The Board of Directors
Michael S. Joyce - President & CEO A former high school teacher from Cleveland, Joyce holds degrees in history and philosophy and a Ph.D. in politics and education. He spent six years with the Educational Research Council of America before heading up the Goldseker Foundation in Baltimore and the John M.Olin Foundation in New York. Served on President Reagan's transition team and various other presidential commissions during the Reagan-Bush years [The Feeding Trough].
Andrew "Tiny" Rader - Chairman of the Board3 President of the Allen-Bradley Company from 1970-1984. Originally from British Columbia, Canada, Rader was hired in 1956 as sales manager of the Allen-Bradley plant in Galt, Ontario. Moved to Milwaukee to head the company's Industrial Controls Division. Promoted to executive vice-president and a board member in 1969 [The Bradley Legacy, by John Gurda].
Allen M. Taylor - Vice Chairman Senior partner in Foley & Lardner, the state's oldest, largest, and most influential law firm. Foley & Lardner was founded in 1842 by William Pitt Lynde, maternal grandfather of Lynde and Harry Bradley [The Bradley Legacy.]
Wayne J. Roper - Secretary Attorney [The Bradley Legacy]
Michael W. Grebe Since 1994, Chairman and CEO of Foley & Lardner. Grebe concentrates on corporate and financial law and is listed by Law Journal Extra as one of the country's 100 most influential attorneys. He is a Republican National Committeeman for Wisconsin; former Chairman of the Republican Party of Wisconsin (1990); and was a member of the National Steering Committee to elect Ronald Reagan in 1980. Former President of the Board of Regents for the University of Wisconsin; President Emeritus and Trustee of the University School of Milwaukee (1980-1988); past Chairman of the Board of Visitors for the United States Military Academy; Director, Oshkosh Truck Corp.; Member, Cancer Center Advisory Board of the Medical College of Wisconsin; also served as a civilian aide to the Secretary of the Army (1992-1995) [Foley & Lardner web site.]
J. Clayburn La Force A director of the Rockwell International Corp. Since 1981, a Director of the Eli Lilly pharmaceutical company of Indianapolis, IN. [The Eli Lilly Foundation is a major funder of the Indianapolis-based Hudson Institute, leading force in the design of Wisconsin's welfare reform program,W-2.] From 1978-1993, Dean of the John E. Anderson Graduate School of Management, UCLA. Former Chairman of UCLA's Economics Department. A director of BlackRock Funds, Imperial Credit Industries,Inc., Jacobs Engineering Group, Inc., Payden and Rygel Fund, Provident Investment Counsel Funds, and The Timken Company. Reputed to be an expert on Latin America. [SecInfo web site.]
Brother Bob Smith Originally from Chicago, Brother Smith has been a member of the Order of Friars Minor-Capuchin since 1979. Among other degrees, he holds a BS in criminal justice from Wayne State University and formerly worked as a parole officer with the Michigan Department of Corrections and as a juvenile detention home chaplain. Principal of Messmer High School in Milwaukee from 1987-1997. Presently the school's first President [Grants to Messmer High School.] Messmer is the city's only predominantly Black Catholic High School. The school is heavily funded by Bradley and is often used as the site of press conferences promoting school vouchers. Although all other Catholic high schools in the area are predominantly white, using Messmer as the background for a photo op leaves the mistaken impression that expanding vouchers would primarily benefit Black students. Brother Smith was the first African American on the foundation's board since its founding in 1942. His appointment was announced weeks after the 1997 publication of the report The Feeding Trough, which exposed Bradley's roles in attempts to overturn affirmative action and in the development of Wisconsin's welfare reform program, W-2.
Reed Coleman A Madison, WI business executive and civic leader [The Bradley Legacy.]
David V. Uihlein, Jr. Architect, and Harry Bradley's grandson [The Bradley Legacy.]
Also: Terry Considine, Mitchell Daniels, Thomas L. Rhodes.
Notable former members include:
William Bennett As Ronald Reagan's Secretary of Education, Bennett made headlines attacking bilingual education and multicultural curricula. As Reagan's Drug Czar, he presided over one of the most repressive- and racially selective - crackdowns on drug use in the country's history, a development that led to a six-fold increase in the state and federal prison population. A leading figure in the neo-conservative movement, he is a co-founder and co-director of the Republican advocacy group Empower America [The Feeding Trough].
George Stigler Nobel Laureate in economics from the University of Chicago; a leading member of Milton Friedman's "Chicago School" of economics, working "primarily in the area of industrial organization and public regulation" [From a May, 1989 interview with Stigler in The Region.] Economists from the Chicago School played the leading role in transforming the economy of Chile after the CIA-led overthrow of President Allende, a Marxist. As a result of their intervention, Chile's ruling class profited handsomely, while workers and the poor saw their standard of living plummet amid brutal political repression.
Frank Shakespeare Former head of the U.S. Information Agency; former U.S. Ambassador to the Vatican; former director of Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty. (Radio Free Europe, established in 1949, and Radio Liberty,1951, were created to broadcast news and current affairs programs to the former socialist countries of Eastern Europe. They were funded principally by the U.S. Congress, through the Central Intelligence Agency [From the official Radio Free Europe web site.]
W. H. Brady, Jr. Owner of a Milwaukee printed tape products company. "He had also spent considerable time as the junior member of a circle of conservative Milwaukee industrialists, Harry Bradley among them, who sponsored lectures, funded anti-communist programs, and provided early critical support for [William F.Buckley's] National Review. In 1956 Brady had established his own foundation to support, however modestly, public policy initiatives" [The Bradley Legacy].
Sheldon B. Lubar Milwaukee venture capitalist; founder & chairman, Lubar & Co., Inc.; president, Business Advisory Council; former president, Marine Capital Corporation; chairman and CEO of Mortgage Associates (1966-1973); president and chairman of the executive committee of Midland National Bank(1975-1977); chairman and CEO of Christiana Companies Inc. Also, former Assistant Secretary of the Department of Housing and Urban Development; Commissioner of the Federal Housing Administration; director of the Federal National Mortgage Association; and commissioner of the White House Conference on Small Business. In 1991, he was appointed a regent of the University of Wisconsin System. In 1987 Lubar became a director of the UWM Foundation and served as its president from 1988 to 1990 [University of Wisconsin web site].
Sources: The Bradley Foundation web site (http://www.bradleyfdn.org (http://www.bradleyfdn.org)) Various Bradley Foundation annual reports The Bradley Legacy: Lynde and Harry Bradley, Their Company, and Their Foundation, by John Gurda; (c) 1992 by the Lynde and Harry Bradley Foundation The Feeding Trough: The Bradley Foundation, "The Bell Curve", and the Real Story Behind W-2,Wisconsin's National Model for Welfare Reform; an investigative report by Phil Wilayto, A Job is a Right Campaign, Milwaukee, WI. Buying a Movement: Right-Wing Foundations and American Politics; a report by People For the American Way.
(c) 2000 by Phil Wilayto
For more information on the Bradley Foundation, see "The Feeding Trough: The Bradley Foundation, 'The Bell Curve', & the Real Story Behind W-2, Wisconsin's National Model for Welfare Reform". An Investigative Report by A Job is a Right Campaign. 140 pages; $12.00 (includes shipping &handling). Send check or money order (made payable to "AJRC") to: A Job is a Right Campaign, PO Box 06053, Milwaukee, WI 53206; Phone: 414.374.1034; Fax: 414.372.7624;Email: http://www.execpc.com/~ajrc (http://www.execpc.com/~ajrc).
Assets & Grants: [As of Dec 31, 2003 the Bradley Foundation had total assets of $468.7 million.] As of Dec. 31, 1998, Bradley had total assets of $611,173,440, ranking No. 71 among the 100 largest U.S. grantmaking foundations, ranked by market value of their assets. (The Foundation Center, as of 2/14/00) In the year ending Dec. 31, 1998, Bradley gave out $32,664,743 in grants, ranking No. 66 among the 100 largest U.S. grantmaking foundations ranked by total giving. (The Foundation Center, as of 2/14/00)
Footnotes 1. From Bradley 2004 990. Bradley assets peaked in 1999 with $700 million. 2. Joyce retired from the Bradley Foundation in 2001. 3. "Tiny" Rader died in 2003.
Title: Stupid fears
Post by: Anonymous on June 17, 2007, 05:36:14 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Tell me you aren't arguing over smileys? :roll: :roll: :roll:
nah see this... :roll: is, by FAR, much more effective, for the likes of you. :rofl: :rofl:
Excellent post! -Frod
Why thank you... hopefully this some what redeems me from my illegal alien debacle!! :rofl: :rofl:
Title: Stupid fears
Post by: Anonymous on June 17, 2007, 06:41:06 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
is like comparing your brain to a clue.
::noway::
Title: Stupid fears
Post by: Anonymous on June 17, 2007, 06:48:08 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Am I supposed to be scared? ...etc...etc...
if you really feel the need to ask that question then you really need help dude. its a fucking smiley. and i thought it was damn funny so bite me!
yawn
Title: Stupid fears
Post by: webdiva on June 17, 2007, 07:00:51 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Am I supposed to be scared? ...etc...etc...
if you really feel the need to ask that question then you really need help dude. its a fucking smiley. and i thought it was damn funny so bite me!
yawn
well someone didn't brush their teeth this morning! cover your mouth at least! :rofl:
Title: Stupid fears
Post by: ajax13 on June 18, 2007, 10:40:02 AM
Don't know where Frod got that bit from Teethy, but couldn't let it slide. Yugoslavia was torn apart because it had a command economy, outside of the US financial elite's orbit and outside that of the Soviet Union. Milosevic was a product of the CIA. The US power establishment fostered Serb nationalism the same as it fostered Bosnian and Croatian nationalism. The first group to break away were the Slovenians. Slovenian nationalists attacked Federal Yugoslav outposts on the Austrian border. The Yugoslav Fed wanted to put down the revolt, and were encouraged to do so by James Baker III. Once that happened, the west started crying "oppression of ethnic minorities". As for the UN, look up the Medak Pocket. The US and Germany backed Croatian independence. Those Croatians by the way, had an unbroken link back to the Ustase WW II Nazi puppet. The Croatians displaced more people in the Kryjina than did the Serbs in the Yugoslav tragedy. Canadian UN peacekeepers fought the first Canadian battle since Korea against US-led and trained Croatians, in an effort to protect Serb civilians. MPRRI, a US company of ex-officers trained the Croats. NATO provided air support, and somebody somehow magically gave them tanks. So once again, we have an example of Western financial elites sponsoring killing and pillaging, while the UN is hamstrung. Love that John Birch society. I come from a practically medieval type of Irish Catholicism, and my grandmother had, for over thirty years, a newspaper cut-out on her fridge urging us to "pray for the unknown communist"
Title: Stupid fears
Post by: Anonymous on June 18, 2007, 02:29:35 PM
Title: Stupid fears
Post by: psy on June 18, 2007, 03:22:05 PM
Torrents!!!
The power of nightmares: http://www.vuze.com/details/R7S4R72PRZL ... 72Y3N.html (http://www.vuze.com/details/R7S4R72PRZLMZTHCRPKOAFL6X2K72Y3N.html)
A history of government sponsored terrorism http://www.vuze.com/details/IXV5QG6G7Q6 ... BNSUQ.html (http://www.vuze.com/details/IXV5QG6G7Q62QBZ4S6PSP3XNJDCBNSUQ.html)
Iraq for Sale: http://www.vuze.com/details/MWEMMNE2OL4 ... 6T22E.html (http://www.vuze.com/details/MWEMMNE2OL4H5XNDBBG6EOLP44H6T22E.html)
Edit: go here and download Azureus v3 (Vuse) to download the movies: http://azureus.sourceforge.net/ (http://azureus.sourceforge.net/)
There is a lot of good stuff on Vuse / bittorrent.
Title: Stupid fears
Post by: webdiva on June 18, 2007, 08:10:35 PM
Quote from: ""psy""
Torrents!!!
The power of nightmares: http://www.vuze.com/details/R7S4R72PRZL ... 72Y3N.html (http://www.vuze.com/details/R7S4R72PRZLMZTHCRPKOAFL6X2K72Y3N.html)
A history of government sponsored terrorism http://www.vuze.com/details/IXV5QG6G7Q6 ... BNSUQ.html (http://www.vuze.com/details/IXV5QG6G7Q62QBZ4S6PSP3XNJDCBNSUQ.html)
Iraq for Sale: http://www.vuze.com/details/MWEMMNE2OL4 ... 6T22E.html (http://www.vuze.com/details/MWEMMNE2OL4H5XNDBBG6EOLP44H6T22E.html)
Edit: go here and download Azureus v3 (Vuse) to download the movies: http://azureus.sourceforge.net/ (http://azureus.sourceforge.net/)
There is a lot of good stuff on Vuse / bittorrent.
sweeet downloading now.. and utorrent (http://http://www.utorrent.com/download.php) is much nicer btw :P unless of course you're on a MAC! *cough* then nevermind :)
Title: Stupid fears
Post by: ZenAgent on June 18, 2007, 09:07:10 PM
Say - that wouldn't be FILE SHARING, would it? Dammit all, you know the gov'ment hates it when people share stuff with each other, they think it's criminal.
They'll probably blame Britney Spears' "meltdown" on file sharing. I Wish Lars Ulrich had melted down, the nasty little elfish, rich kid, cokehead sodomite...by "sodomite", I mean he fucks goats, and I've seen the pictures.
Title: Re: Stupid fears
Post by: hanzomon4 on June 18, 2007, 10:00:28 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Has anyone else on this forum had stark reactions when some kid says he's going away to camp for two weeks, until you have real confirmation that it really is just some ordinary summer camp?
Haven't read through everything here, but hell yes.
Any time I here about "therapy", youth camps or special schools, I go into a slight panic. I avoid the news because I fear hearing about something "new" "that works" to get kids back on track or a story about a noble parent using shame punishments on their kids as a "last resort" to keep them from skipping school.
I guess you could say that the world now must pass though a pretty unforgiving filter.
Title: Stupid fears
Post by: webdiva on June 19, 2007, 05:58:41 AM
Quote from: ""ZenAgent""
Say - that wouldn't be FILE SHARING, would it? Dammit all, you know the gov'ment hates it when people share stuff with each other, they think it's criminal.
They'll probably blame Britney Spears' "meltdown" on file sharing. I Wish Lars Ulrich had melted down, the nasty little elfish, rich kid, cokehead sodomite...by "sodomite", I mean he fucks goats, and I've seen the pictures.
Fuck yeah! the only thing im willing to pay for is good music! and i couldn't agree MORE regarding Lars... artists (except metallica) make far more money off touring. File sharing has done nothing BUT help artists, old and new, gain a wider audience... touring and live shows have actually improved since file sharing began, Cuz the live scene was getting grim. I think it's helped the music industry it's just taken a little money away from a small group of people who can go fuck themselves for all i care.
Title: Stupid fears
Post by: ZenAgent on June 19, 2007, 12:05:09 PM
Quote from: ""webdiva""
Quote from: ""ZenAgent""
Say - that wouldn't be FILE SHARING, would it? Dammit all, you know the gov'ment hates it when people share stuff with each other, they think it's criminal.
They'll probably blame Britney Spears' "meltdown" on file sharing. I Wish Lars Ulrich had melted down, the nasty little elfish, rich kid, cokehead sodomite...by "sodomite", I mean he fucks goats, and I've seen the pictures.
Fuck yeah! the only thing im willing to pay for is good music! and i couldn't agree MORE regarding Lars... artists (except metallica) make far more money off touring. File sharing has done nothing BUT help artists, old and new, gain a wider audience... touring and live shows have actually improved since file sharing began, Cuz the live scene was getting grim. I think it's helped the music industry it's just taken a little money away from a small group of people who can go fuck themselves for all i care.
You nailed it. Bands are having to play to get paid, and a lot of musicians are finding they make a hell of a lot more money selling CD's at shows and on the internet than they could by signing to a label. They don't have to pay the sleazy A+R guy with the coke habit, the goons in "marketing"...basically, all the record label whores who don't know shit about music but get paid for...hell, I don't really know.
Title: Stupid fears
Post by: psy on June 19, 2007, 08:41:06 PM
Quote from: ""ZenAgent""
...basically, all the record label whores who don't know shit about music but get paid for...hell, I don't really know.
Record companies like you to believe that the production of a CD requires a large, professional team of people... They would have you believe it needs to cost millions to produce what they want you to call "music".
In reality, there was music before record companies and there will be music afterwards. Only when music industry goes belly up, will the artists themselves actually be free to make their music the way they want it without interferance. With the corporate middleman comes a "comittment". You become property... an investment, and are expected to behave in a way that the focus groups say pleases the public. It takes the individuality out of music... out of art... and turns it into a tamed force... one that will not scare, one that will not shock, one that will not move hearts and minds. Record companies would have you believe that art is better if it immediately "clicks" with an audience prepped and ready to receive the next batch of disposable ditties...
The record companies traditionally were able to hold a lot more power than they do now. Now that they are losing the means of distribution that gave them a reason to be... more and more people are starting to question what they had been told, especially now that media is becoming democratized by the internet. Shutting down filesharing services is not about intellectual property. Record companies are still making money, they just pretend to be hurt because they are afraid of a free alternative to the artificially necessitated "service"they provide. They no longer control communication, and like programs, they struggle for survival, desperately pushing for legislation such as the DMCA (giving corporations power to hand out subpoenas and sue five year olds)... Our corrupt government happily complies with their "benefactors" but it does little practical good. On the internet, there is no law, there are no borders, and it is the only place where a semblance of true free speech exists. For every push against filesharing... against alternatives... techs develop newer, more clever, impregnable, anonymous means of communication...
Although it is still true to a great extent that knowledge of technology equates to freedom, techs are now handing their tools over to the public. China cannot stop or control freenet. The internet is too large to be contained. They like to think they are in control but it is largely an illusion perpetuated to keep the public afraid and in line (same principle as a fake surveilance camera). Libel is only actionable if it is traceable (protecting those who cannot afford to be frivolously sued into bankruptcy)... Information that is "illegal" can be disseminated to the masses. Government secrets? The government answers to the people, period. There are no secrets to be legitimately kept. Taped phone conversations? Why not? 20/20 can do it and not get thrown in jail. This IS freedom of the press. This IS true freedom of speech. Fight those who would try to deny you it!
"congress shall make no law..."
Title: Stupid fears
Post by: webdiva on June 19, 2007, 09:21:59 PM
Quote from: ""ZenAgent""
Quote from: ""webdiva""
Quote from: ""ZenAgent""
Say - that wouldn't be FILE SHARING, would it? Dammit all, you know the gov'ment hates it when people share stuff with each other, they think it's criminal.
They'll probably blame Britney Spears' "meltdown" on file sharing. I Wish Lars Ulrich had melted down, the nasty little elfish, rich kid, cokehead sodomite...by "sodomite", I mean he fucks goats, and I've seen the pictures.
Fuck yeah! the only thing im willing to pay for is good music! and i couldn't agree MORE regarding Lars... artists (except metallica) make far more money off touring. File sharing has done nothing BUT help artists, old and new, gain a wider audience... touring and live shows have actually improved since file sharing began, Cuz the live scene was getting grim. I think it's helped the music industry it's just taken a little money away from a small group of people who can go fuck themselves for all i care.
You nailed it. Bands are having to play to get paid, and a lot of musicians are finding they make a hell of a lot more money selling CD's at shows and on the internet than they could by signing to a label. They don't have to pay the sleazy A+R guy with the coke habit, the goons in "marketing"...basically, all the record label whores who don't know shit about music but get paid for...hell, I don't really know.
yep yep believe it or not i went to college for music biz (not doing shit w/ the degree but thats fine lol) and learned all That. These were during the pre-historic er pre-internet days so it wasn't even an issue. But the net has definitely helped musicians and given listeners a hell of a lot more good music to choose from,. stuff we may never otherwise have had the opportunity to hear. Thats the sad thing, something as awesome and unifying as music is corrupted by Greed, as is everything it seems. :(
Title: Stupid fears
Post by: psy on June 19, 2007, 11:13:59 PM
Quote from: ""webdiva""
Quote from: ""ZenAgent""
Quote from: ""webdiva""
Quote from: ""ZenAgent""
Say - that wouldn't be FILE SHARING, would it? Dammit all, you know the gov'ment hates it when people share stuff with each other, they think it's criminal.
They'll probably blame Britney Spears' "meltdown" on file sharing. I Wish Lars Ulrich had melted down, the nasty little elfish, rich kid, cokehead sodomite...by "sodomite", I mean he fucks goats, and I've seen the pictures.
Fuck yeah! the only thing im willing to pay for is good music! and i couldn't agree MORE regarding Lars... artists (except metallica) make far more money off touring. File sharing has done nothing BUT help artists, old and new, gain a wider audience... touring and live shows have actually improved since file sharing began, Cuz the live scene was getting grim. I think it's helped the music industry it's just taken a little money away from a small group of people who can go fuck themselves for all i care.
You nailed it. Bands are having to play to get paid, and a lot of musicians are finding they make a hell of a lot more money selling CD's at shows and on the internet than they could by signing to a label. They don't have to pay the sleazy A+R guy with the coke habit, the goons in "marketing"...basically, all the record label whores who don't know shit about music but get paid for...hell, I don't really know.
yep yep believe it or not i went to college for music biz (not doing shit w/ the degree but thats fine lol) and learned all That. These were during the pre-historic er pre-internet days so it wasn't even an issue. But the net has definitely helped musicians and given listeners a hell of a lot more good music to choose from,. stuff we may never otherwise have had the opportunity to hear. Thats the sad thing, something as awesome and unifying as music is corrupted by Greed, as is everything it seems. :(
And yet communication seems to be the common denominator in terms of resolving problems related to concentrated power. Programs can't survive without control over communication. Nor can dictators (secret police)... or abusers(i don't want you talking to them)... or Lon Woodbury(let's keep this a "safe" place for parents), or Sue Scheff (I'll SUE) Politicians thrive in their tightly controlled enviornments from which to give an illusion of universal approval (from photo-ops to staged Q&A). One wonders if abuse of power is possible where communication cannot be controlled.
A lot of people fear the internet. They fear the internet will one day be controlled or monitored... That it will become a trap. I can't foresee that being a possibility. Government clones who learned their "skill" in a classroom from a textbook (trust me on this, i used to work with them) will always be both far behind and hopelessly outnumbered by the more technical folk who populate the internet.
This is what happens, to give you an example: Where I used to work, my bosses' boss instructed all of us to shred the mailing labels for all packages that came in. He explained to us that the enemy was everywhere, that we lived in a new age of terror and bla bla bla.... My immediate boss, who was in Vietnam and was constantly harping on about the good ol' days of killin commies, immediately accepted what he was taught without questioning the motivation. His belief structure requires a villain so that he can justify his actions without having to think too much. Me, on the other hand... The first thing I was thinking is "aha. so he sells to himself and doesn't want the inspectors to notice". I looked at the addresses, and sure enough, although the company name changed, the address was still the same.
The people who had worked for the government were so hopelessly fried. Many of them had pigeonholed themselves into doing the same exact repetitive thing for decades at a time, believing that they were "protecting America" from the scarecrow-du-jour. They had the worst aesthetic sense I have ever seen. They didn't care how things looked as long as they were done with proper procedure. Changing a font, or making the excel table/database frontend/powerpoint presentation just a little bit provoked a surprising amount of negative response. They needed everything aligned at right angles. Their thinking, everything about them, was so rigid. They lived on it. So? What did I do? I ignored them. I had been there and done that. I was a bit naugty. I re-organized things, or would re-design something during my free time (so they could not say "bla bla bla, i told you to keep counting the beans". The trick was to make what I presented so appealing that it was undeniably "better" than what they had been doing before. It was an affront to their traditional manner of thinking, but they were tempted... And eventually, they gave in. I demonstrated, for example, that alternating lines on a spreadsheet with light yellow, for example, not only made it look better, but also increased the accuracy and speed of the bean counting process. All in all, there was only so much I could do... Quite a few people left before I did. Lockheed bought them out eventually and had no interest whatsoever in improving efficiency (They get a cut out of the hourly pay it takes to complete a job... And they intend on collecting every single penny of the funds allotted to manpower. So why don't they just simply get things done quickly and get more contracts? Jobs. Jobs in key districts are political power (holds reps hostage... could you imagine "I lost my job because Joe Politician cut our defense budget... he's heping the terrists..." It's a PR nightmare and could threaten incumbency). Political power ensures funding for more projects, and when you are dealing with government defense spending, you simply expand (and with it influence) rather than become more efficient. Now, we have a country addicted to war (Defense contractors are the pushers). We have to have an enemy to justify our defense spending which contributes directly or indirectly to a sizable portion of our economy.
Why doesn't the DoD say something? Because military men, as I've alluded to, have limited use for their skillset outside of the field of defense. When a person retires from the army, a career at Lockheed, or pretty much any private contractor is practically guaranteed. The higher up you are in the DoD, the more lucrative your retirement can be. You still have friends back in the pentagon you can call to get a deal (often this is justified as "trust".... ie. Well. I contract to him becuase I know I can trust him and this is sensitive). Why would a DoD member want to raise a red-flag and not only destroy his retirement, but also become known as a traitor to the "good ol boys club"? This isn't even mentioning the "top secret" aspect of many projects, where you can very well be hanged as a traitor for exposing corruption (you are supposed to trust that your superiors know more than you do) Most of the work is so compartmentalized so as to prevent anybody to know whaty they are working on anyway, so that is unlikely to happen. The whole bunch needs a good flush down the toilet.. and until that happens, it's exactly where they will be putting our tax dollars.
In short: Why a 10000 toilet seat? Because when you are in the government, it's not your money your spending, and you might as well buy from a friend for a "good" price... after all, one day you will be selling the toilet seat.
Sorry for the rant. Sleep deprivation. Astronomy project last night. Still awake becuase of massive amounts of caffeine ingested prior to the presentation i gave to the class (it went really well). For some reason, I do some things better when I am sleep deprived. I should probably shut up now.
:em: :silly:
Title: Stupid fears
Post by: Deborah on June 19, 2007, 11:28:44 PM
And you stood for the presentation? :tup:
Title: Stupid fears
Post by: Anonymous on June 20, 2007, 01:29:23 PM
Quote from: ""psy""
Quote from: ""ZenAgent""
...basically, all the record label whores who don't know shit about music but get paid for...hell, I don't really know.
Record companies like you to believe that the production of a CD requires a large, professional team of people... They would have you believe it needs to cost millions to produce what they want you to call "music".
In reality, there was music before record companies and there will be music afterwards. Only when music industry goes belly up, will the artists themselves actually be free to make their music the way they want it without interferance. With the corporate middleman comes a "comittment". You become property... an investment, and are expected to behave in a way that the focus groups say pleases the public. It takes the individuality out of music... out of art... and turns it into a tamed force... one that will not scare, one that will not shock, one that will not move hearts and minds. Record companies would have you believe that art is better if it immediately "clicks" with an audience prepped and ready to receive the next batch of disposable ditties...
Preach on brother! I am a musician and everything you say is completely correct. However, you must not underestimate the number of people out there who have grown up on commercialized music, and pre-packed hip-hop and pop and so to them that "is music." When they hear real music from real artists they laugh, because it isn't produced with perfectly timed computerized beats, voices so compressed they aren't even human, the same cliche melody and beat patterns in EVERY FUCKING song. The market now EXPECTS a certain type of song, if they don't get it, they don't listen to it.
TO many people music is not art, it is an accessory. "Oh dude, what you listening to?" To them it's just a response to give to their friends, so they choose their music and what they think everyone else is listening to so they don't look ignorant when the topic of the monthly pop artist dejeur comes up at parties they know what to say.
I know some of you are like, nah, that's not it. It's the top down phenomonen, record companies are pushing this shit down the throats of today's youth and gen y & xers but talk the truth is much more sad.
If ou dont believe me go take a look at the most popular downloads on bittorrent. Or answer me this question, why did paris hiltons single do so well? Why did american idol artists do so well? Why do people consider pretty girls who sing scripts to pre-packed produced pop songs waiting on the shelf to be marketed with the right face musicians?
A lot of musicians want to be the commercial rock star too, they seek that out. It's not like musicians are forced at gunpoint to sign a contract, they want that lifestyle, fame, bullshit pop sound, and all that crap that comes along with it. Nothing wrong with that. But stop calling them artists and comparing real art and music to that shit.
That's like saying that a digitral still from a surveillance camera oif a beautiful landscape is the same thing as if someone painted it. SUre it shows the same thing, somwhat, but htey are so very very different! H You can tell a lot about a person by asking whether htye prefer doing lines or smoking tbpitw and who do you want to hang around with really? I love marijuana.
Title: Stupid fears
Post by: webdiva on June 20, 2007, 01:35:58 PM
Quote from: ""crumbledoreosallaround""
That's like saying that a digitral still from a surveillance camera oif a beautiful landscape is the same thing as if someone painted it. SUre it shows the same thing, somwhat, but htey are so very very different! H You can tell a lot about a person by asking whether htye prefer doing lines or smoking tbpitw and who do you want to hang around with really? I love marijuana.
spell check? lol seriously though you can tell a lot about a person by checking their torrent download history or their music collection. :o now pass the pipe! :rofl:
Title: Stupid fears
Post by: Anonymous on June 20, 2007, 01:36:10 PM
Quote
Now, we have a country addicted to war (Defense contractors are the pushers). We have to have an enemy to justify our defense spending which contributes directly or indirectly to a sizable portion of our economy.
I live right next to camp pendelton where they train marines to be sent overseas and about once a month they do these two day long bombing exercises. BOOM! the house shakes... dogs bark... 30 seconds pass BOOM!.. the house shakes... dogs bark... repeat this for like 30 hours straight. Every time one goes off I am just thinking what a waste of money.. and then I stop myself from thinking like a greedy bastard and really get sad thinking they are training to go drop these on people and how scary that must be to get bombed from the air by technologically advanced people who never really told you why they are trying to kill you... and now everyones like bomb iran, they watch too much tv the marketing package for the iran war definitely seems to be working on your typical ameriicin.
Title: Stupid fears
Post by: webdiva on June 20, 2007, 01:47:59 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote
Now, we have a country addicted to war (Defense contractors are the pushers). We have to have an enemy to justify our defense spending which contributes directly or indirectly to a sizable portion of our economy.
I live right next to camp pendelton where they train marines to be sent overseas and about once a month they do these two day long bombing exercises. BOOM! the house shakes... dogs bark... 30 seconds pass BOOM!.. the house shakes... dogs bark... repeat this for like 30 hours straight. Every time one goes off I am just thinking what a waste of money.. and then I stop myself from thinking like a greedy bastard and really get sad thinking they are training to go drop these on people and how scary that must be to get bombed from the air by technologically advanced people who never really told you why they are trying to kill you... and now everyones like bomb iran, they watch too much tv the marketing package for the iran war definitely seems to be working on your typical ameriicin.
wow what a small world i live right near there too! ever do the mud run? lol
Title: Stupid fears
Post by: Froderik on June 20, 2007, 01:48:04 PM
Quote from: ""crumbledoreosallaround""
Quote from: ""psy""
Quote from: ""ZenAgent""
...basically, all the record label whores who don't know shit about music but get paid for...hell, I don't really know.
Record companies like you to believe that the production of a CD requires a large, professional team of people... They would have you believe it needs to cost millions to produce what they want you to call "music".
In reality, there was music before record companies and there will be music afterwards. Only when music industry goes belly up, will the artists themselves actually be free to make their music the way they want it without interferance. With the corporate middleman comes a "comittment". You become property... an investment, and are expected to behave in a way that the focus groups say pleases the public. It takes the individuality out of music... out of art... and turns it into a tamed force... one that will not scare, one that will not shock, one that will not move hearts and minds. Record companies would have you believe that art is better if it immediately "clicks" with an audience prepped and ready to receive the next batch of disposable ditties...
Preach on brother! I am a musician and everything you say is completely correct. However, you must not underestimate the number of people out there who have grown up on commercialized music, and pre-packed hip-hop and pop and so to them that "is music." When they hear real music from real artists they laugh, because it isn't produced with perfectly timed computerized beats, voices so compressed they aren't even human, the same cliche melody and beat patterns in EVERY FUCKING song. The market now EXPECTS a certain type of song, if they don't get it, they don't listen to it.
TO many people music is not art, it is an accessory. "Oh dude, what you listening to?" To them it's just a response to give to their friends, so they choose their music and what they think everyone else is listening to so they don't look ignorant when the topic of the monthly pop artist dejeur comes up at parties they know what to say.
I know some of you are like, nah, that's not it. It's the top down phenomonen, record companies are pushing this shit down the throats of today's youth and gen y & xers but talk the truth is much more sad.
If ou dont believe me go take a look at the most popular downloads on bittorrent. Or answer me this question, why did paris hiltons single do so well? Why did american idol artists do so well? Why do people consider pretty girls who sing scripts to pre-packed produced pop songs waiting on the shelf to be marketed with the right face musicians?
A lot of musicians want to be the commercial rock star too, they seek that out. It's not like musicians are forced at gunpoint to sign a contract, they want that lifestyle, fame, bullshit pop sound, and all that crap that comes along with it. Nothing wrong with that. But stop calling them artists and comparing real art and music to that shit.
That's like saying that a digitral still from a surveillance camera oif a beautiful landscape is the same thing as if someone painted it. SUre it shows the same thing, somwhat, but htey are so very very different! H You can tell a lot about a person by asking whether htye prefer doing lines or smoking tbpitw and who do you want to hang around with really? I love marijuana.
Title: Stupid fears
Post by: Anonymous on June 20, 2007, 02:18:22 PM
Quote from: ""webdiva""
wow what a small world i live right near there too! ever do the mud run? lol
nope cant say i have! we signed up one year but it never happened.. we have a ways with forgetting things.. :rofl: arent you glad the bombing finally stopped i hate that shit? :D
Title: Stupid fears
Post by: Anonymous on June 20, 2007, 02:20:37 PM
Title: Stupid fears
Post by: webdiva on June 20, 2007, 02:28:15 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""webdiva""
wow what a small world i live right near there too! ever do the mud run? lol
nope cant say i have! we signed up one year but it never happened.. we have a ways with forgetting things.. :rofl: arent you glad the bombing finally stopped i hate that shit? :D
actually i don't live quite that close.. but i do live close to padres stadium and the fireworks sound like bombs, and make all the car alarms go off! lol but at least they're pretty to look at!
the bombs would get a bit annoying after while, yes. (http://http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/MSN_Emoticons/MSN-bomb-003.png)
Title: Stupid fears
Post by: webdiva on June 20, 2007, 02:31:33 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
omfg! lmao! now that's what i call a mockery! be afraid, very afraid! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Title: Stupid fears
Post by: Anonymous on June 20, 2007, 02:35:59 PM
Quote from: ""webdiva""
actually i don't live quite that close.. but i do live close to padres stadium and the fireworks sound like bombs, and make all the car alarms go off! lol but at least they're pretty to look at!
the bombs would get a bit annoying after while, yes. (http://http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/MSN_Emoticons/MSN-bomb-003.png)
yeah I'm like as far north as you can go, where i walk my dogs is the border line to the base.. so close i can hear their rifle range practice even. i used to live in the fenton apartments in mission valley for a year back in 2002, charger traffic was a nightmare my god. I spent everyday down non west broadway when I was 16, 17 I had a job in a restaurant across from the YMCA building.. downtown sure has changed a lot its becoming a residential neighborhood now.. every time i venture down there a new building has popped up! :P
Title: Stupid fears
Post by: webdiva on June 20, 2007, 02:40:02 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""webdiva""
actually i don't live quite that close.. but i do live close to padres stadium and the fireworks sound like bombs, and make all the car alarms go off! lol but at least they're pretty to look at!
the bombs would get a bit annoying after while, yes. (http://http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/MSN_Emoticons/MSN-bomb-003.png)
yeah I'm like as far north as you can go, where i walk my dogs is the border line to the base.. so close i can hear their rifle range practice even. i used to live in the fenton apartments in mission valley for a year back in 2002, charger traffic was a nightmare my god. I spent everyday down non west broadway when I was 16, 17 I had a job in a restaurant across from the YMCA building.. downtown sure has changed a lot its becoming a residential neighborhood now.. every time i venture down there a new building has popped up! :P
Charger traffic, try living downtown during baseball season. parking is over $200 a month so i don't drive my car and part it in logan heights! lol
and yes lotsa construction and change and stuff always going on... ive only been here 5 years and its amazing how downtown has grown in just that short time. but i think this is my last year downtown i need some ocean! :)
Title: Stupid fears
Post by: Froderik on June 20, 2007, 03:47:02 PM
I've got some crazy, fly, gumby gold... 8-) :rofl:
Title: Stupid fears
Post by: webdiva on June 20, 2007, 03:56:55 PM
Quote from: ""Froderik""
I've got some crazy, fly, gumby gold... 8-) :rofl: